Welcome to Celebrating Life and
Recovery, I'm Cheri your host
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Have you ever struggled
with receiving forgiveness, and
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then God turns around
and asks you to forgive those
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who hurt you?
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Oh man, that's what we're
going to talk about today.
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Come join us in the café.
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Welcome back, you know,
the whole forgiveness thing
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always gets to me,
because when I first met God I
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sitting in a drug
house trying to kill myself.
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I have been on the street
for 10 years, and everything
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was horrible, I
mean, it was horrible.
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And then I feel forgiveness,
I feel God loving me, so safe.
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Unbelievable and I get up
and literally walk into that.
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And through the years of
healing, I was so amazed at how
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God just, nothing I
brought to the table.
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I would bring this horrendous
stuff, twisted stuff, put
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it on the table and He
would just clear it off.
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I know that about you,
thanks for giving it to Me.
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and it literally was that sense,
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Thanks for giving it to
Me because He knew that if it
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festered in me, it
would just kill me.
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It was like with every single
thing that came out, and I
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just turned it
over, it was good.
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And then He started asking
me to forgive people around me.
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That was a little harder,
and I thought I had done that.
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In fact, I am in ministry
now, and I get called by this
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church that has a number
of pedophiles, in the church's
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three different churches.
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One guy had molested
60 plus kids, and it was
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triggering all the different
victims, all the different women
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there were children
that had been molested,
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so everybody is triggering.
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Can you come and do a weekend
with us and talk about how
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to have an accountability
program in the church, how to
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keep us safe, and
all those kind of things.
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I'm thinking, okay and I'm
prayed up, and I looked into
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some stuff and we went
in and did this outreach.
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I realize that the victims
really wanted me to point the
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finger at the
perpetrators and let them know
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how wrong they were.
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And the perpetrators
were so desperate to receive
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forgiveness and recovery.
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I'm looking at both of these
groups and realizing, you know
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God, God wants
to heal both groups.
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And there is not that He
is saying that the perpetrator
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is no good and we are
going to condemn him or her.
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He saying, I want
to help everybody.
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If you can't get that in
the congregation then nobody
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gets healed and
everybody sits there damaged.
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So I got that and
that and I literally
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healed a little
bit more about my
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understanding of
forgiveness with that.
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So, I think I'm doing good, but
then I'm doing the show, right?
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And I just got to tell
you I'm doing this show, I'm
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getting ready to interview
this guy Michael that I'm
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going to introduce
you to in a minute.
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And he's like a strip
club owner, and all of a sudden
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everything in me comes
up and said, you know what
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I used to be in that.
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13 years old, it was my
first job, you know what
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walking into a club and
dancing and being locked in that
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for years and years and years.
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I literally feel like I'm
tightening up, I wanted to
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say, God I don't
know if I can do this.
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I don't know if I can look
at this guy and say I'm glad
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that God had forgave you.
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There is a part of me
that says I want to look at him
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and say do you suffer any?
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You know and as a Christian.
I want to say, forgive me
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for thinking that, but
that is what I thought.
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Michael, I want to say
at this point, thank you for
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being on the show.
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Thank you for having me.
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When I first met you
think that my hands when around
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your neck almost immediately.
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I felt that, I felt it.
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To understand what I am
saying there is a part of me
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that wanted to look at
you and say who are you?
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Do you realize the
damage you have done?
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I don't want you to start
there because I know you do.
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Do you know what I mean?
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The more I got to sit with
you that I felt your spirit
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and that God has so loved you.
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I know that you have, but
I want you to kind of walk us
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through your testimony.
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Who are you,
where did you come from?
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My name is Michael Ehm and I
was always known as Michael Ehm.
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I'm known by my
middle name, Michael Ross.
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About 19 years old, at
that time I was thinking
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about being in the ministry.
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I was brought up in a church
family, but I wanted to go
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into ministry,
but wasn't feeling it.
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So I left - I didn't
know that about you when they
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first told me your story
that you literally were going
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to going to
ministry at one time.
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I had considered going
into ministry at 19 years old
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but I wasn't feeling it.
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I had gone to university
in the Midwest - wasn't
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feeling it in the fact it
didn't feel real to you - it
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was real to me it just
think my spiritual bubble had
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burst when I hit the campus.
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I decided that I
needed to get out, and so
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I went into the world.
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The world was saying, if
it feels good do it - can I
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just jump in and say, if
you could be brave enough we
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could do a whole other
show on why did it bust.
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When you went into campus
when you are surrounded by a
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bunch of Christians, why
didn't it just lift you up.
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Instead you said no, I
walked in, and all of a sudden I
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I don't even
want to do it anymore.
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Well, it you go by other
people's spiritual gas, and you
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don't have that
feel for yourself.
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I didn't have that, so I
was running on other peoples
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vapors, and when that
exhausted, I was left flat.
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So, I went into a world that
says if it feels good do it.
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If it felt good I did it.
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So I went off campus
and pursued other endeavors.
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Slowly I got into the
rock 'n roll and night clubs.
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I started to produce and
promote rock groups - and you
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are talking, I heard a
little bit about you, you was up
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there as far as doing that.
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You were in that
life - eventually,
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that is what led to.
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I signed a lot of groups,
I was in merchandising, there
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is many different courses
you can take in rock 'n roll.
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I was doing promotions and
then there was a calling and
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said listen, we need
someone to do merchandise.
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So I got into
merchandise, and I literally ate
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and slept rock 'n roll.
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When I found out that someone
wanted to pay me for something
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like I was about to
do, hello lets go for this.
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I'm there I'm all over it.
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So I put my ear to the
ground, it was at a time when
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heavy metal was dead.
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This was the latter
part of the 70's and 80's
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in heavy metal was dead.
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But I was feeling something
different, I was hearing
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something different.
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It really moved me so I
started saying no heavy metal is
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not dead, and on Monday nights
I was doing heavy metal Mondays
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in a nightclub up
in Madison Wisconsin.
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Things just took off from there.
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We started working with
other groups and breaking other
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groups, one of the groups
I thought at one time was The
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Police they first came out.
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Though they were not a
heavy metal group, the things
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they were doing, Police,
U2, these new young groups that
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were the cutting-edge.
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My value started to rise
through the ranks and as my
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value started rising I started
to feel really good about things
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Exactly, it's like I'm
hanging out with all these folks
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that are hip, I must be hip.
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It was a rush, and you're
only are as good as the next
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group, or the next promotion.
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So I started doing more
and more, and a little bit more
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and a little bit more,
and a little bit more until
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you are just strung out
on all these feelings and
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I guess maybe not
say strung out, you are
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just led along for so long.
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Most of the time when
these people are in these music
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groups, or are touring
around, it is usually is the
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length of the time the
group is on tour or as long as
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the group is touring,
because you are only as good as
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your last hit - hit!
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For me, I just
kept working with every
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new group that came out.
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So I got into merchandising,
I was responsible for
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signing a little tiny group
Metallica, Raven and Anthrax
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that little Tiny group everybody
that's ever loved their
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music like this
tiny group is he crazy.
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Yeah, and I continued to
tour with them and all that but
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I was responsible in that
and another group followed.
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As with many, many
different groups, but that's not
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what we're here to talk about.
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We're here to talk about
how I - so how did you get
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from that kind of lifestyle
working in groups in the
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entertainment field
even if it into marketing
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merchandise into
managing strip clubs?
00:08:32.10\00:08:35.53
When somebody said that
about you, do you realize I
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couldn't believe that my
gut really tightened, and it was
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like I realize I
forgive a lot of people,
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but it was hard for me to
forgive somebody that I know.
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Like I know the girls that
kill themselves in those clubs.
00:08:48.12\00:08:50.77
I know all that stuff so
let's talk about how you got in
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there and then can you
respond to how you feel when
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I say, it's really tough
for me to have you sitting here.
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It's a little hurtful,
but we'll get to that as well.
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For me to jump into the
strip club setting, for me to go
00:09:04.53\00:09:08.00
as a young man to a club
setting was a little different.
00:09:08.03\00:09:10.95
Even though I was in
night clubs and around what they
00:09:10.99\00:09:13.84
call groupies, they were still
just foreign part of my life.
00:09:13.87\00:09:17.34
It was not a place that I
would want to be found dead in.
00:09:17.37\00:09:20.80
So about my 21st
birthday, it was the thing to
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do to go out to a club, a
bunch of guys took me out.
00:09:27.18\00:09:30.61
That's what I did, I didn't
like it and so even when I
00:09:30.65\00:09:34.04
toured on the road it
wasn't my cup of tea to do.
00:09:34.08\00:09:36.46
At 26 I met my real father and
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I never knew my
father growing up.
00:09:40.17\00:09:41.86
I didn't even know at 15
that I had another father.
00:09:41.90\00:09:45.41
That I had a
biological father out there
00:09:45.44\00:09:47.50
until my mother told me.
00:09:47.53\00:09:48.50
And at that time was really
struggling with who I was,
00:09:48.51\00:09:52.80
growing up, and
most teens are that way.
00:09:52.84\00:09:54.52
We are all struggling, but
for me was probably a little
00:09:54.56\00:09:57.22
different kind of struggle,
because a lot of people knew
00:09:57.25\00:09:59.87
where I came from, except me.
00:09:59.91\00:10:02.47
My mother was keeping a
secret - and you didn't even
00:10:02.50\00:10:05.32
know you thought that
your stepfather was your
00:10:05.36\00:10:07.80
biological father -
that's correct, that's correct
00:10:07.84\00:10:10.25
until you 15 - until I was 15.
00:10:10.28\00:10:11.25
Oh man - and a lot of
people would think that was
00:10:11.26\00:10:13.94
a bad thing but to me it
was a good thing, because when
00:10:13.98\00:10:16.36
you realize this guy that
has been your father and you
00:10:16.40\00:10:18.71
have had this kind of resistance
and you don't understand it.
00:10:18.75\00:10:21.66
I think at a young age, I
think kids figure things out.
00:10:21.70\00:10:24.82
They may not know
exactly what the answer is,
00:10:24.85\00:10:27.46
but they figure things out.
00:10:27.50\00:10:28.59
I knew that something wasn't
right here, but when my mom
00:10:28.62\00:10:31.56
told me that he was my
dad, I remembered the text
00:10:31.60\00:10:34.45
came to me "and
truth shall set you free. "
00:10:34.48\00:10:35.90
So, you just felt like
you knew that all along - yeah
00:10:35.93\00:10:39.11
kind of - something
finally validated all at stuff
00:10:39.15\00:10:41.41
that's correct.
00:10:41.45\00:10:42.42
So I wanted to find out
who my real dad was and who
00:10:42.43\00:10:45.82
wouldn't, like, you know,
I've got another dad, what's
00:10:45.86\00:10:48.41
he about, what's he look
like and all these questions.
00:10:48.45\00:10:51.83
Is he like me -
or am I like him.
00:10:51.86\00:10:54.71
How much am I like him,
good or bad, is the healthy is
00:10:54.75\00:10:57.57
he sick, or is he dead.
00:10:57.60\00:10:58.67
I wouldn't find these questions
out till many years later.
00:10:58.70\00:11:02.33
My mom was very reserved about
telling me this information.
00:11:02.37\00:11:05.97
She was really hurt
through a relationship that
00:11:06.00\00:11:10.71
she had with him.
00:11:10.74\00:11:11.97
I was born illegitimate at a
time where I was I don't think
00:11:12.00\00:11:16.95
it's ever been fashionable,
but it was more taboo.
00:11:16.98\00:11:18.74
I was even born in home for
unwed mothers, and the state
00:11:18.78\00:11:24.07
took me away until my
mom could prove a she could
00:11:24.10\00:11:26.84
financially take care of me.
00:11:26.88\00:11:28.32
So I had another mother
that was taken care of me - why
00:11:28.35\00:11:32.96
is it that as I'm listening
to you, why is it we always
00:11:32.99\00:11:36.95
think our damage is so
intense, and we don't realize
00:11:36.98\00:11:40.10
that a person that is
damaging us is damaged too?
00:11:40.14\00:11:43.19
And I just want to say as
you are talking there's part
00:11:43.22\00:11:45.71
of me wants to
say, I'm so sorry.
00:11:45.74\00:11:47.87
I think I was little tadpole,
I really didn't realize that
00:11:47.91\00:11:54.43
there damaged was
going on - if you can imagine
00:11:54.46\00:11:56.05
we did a whole show on identity.
00:11:56.08\00:11:57.48
and realizing that
are a identity gets so
00:11:57.52\00:12:00.14
trashed, when had that sense
of not belonging, not having
00:12:00.18\00:12:03.39
our father and all
that kind of stuff.
00:12:03.43\00:12:04.92
As you are talking in all
this is unfolding, I just want
00:12:04.95\00:12:08.76
to say that I am sorry
for what you went through.
00:12:08.79\00:12:14.26
And now it's just like
God, just showing me that I just
00:12:14.29\00:12:19.41
can't look at my own stuff.
00:12:19.44\00:12:20.47
That there are people
watching right now, that we tend
00:12:20.50\00:12:22.89
to look at our own
stuff, not realizing the people
00:12:22.93\00:12:25.45
that have damaged us, or
we've perceived damaged from,
00:12:25.49\00:12:27.98
have been damage too.
00:12:28.01\00:12:29.18
So go ahead.
00:12:29.22\00:12:30.64
That's interesting too because
there is a lot to be said
00:12:30.67\00:12:34.07
about having a
father in the family.
00:12:34.10\00:12:35.56
My stepfather was a
very good man, a fireman
00:12:35.59\00:12:38.31
and a very lovely man.
00:12:38.34\00:12:39.85
I even hear that in that
in your story, you're not
00:12:39.89\00:12:42.03
saying that anybody did anything
wrong, this hole was there.
00:12:42.07\00:12:44.82
Yes, it was, it was, And
there was a longing to be
00:12:44.86\00:12:48.08
someone, to do
something, you know.
00:12:48.12\00:12:49.68
At 19 years old and
you're doing this rock 'n roll
00:12:49.72\00:12:52.96
things, there's something
about youth, that you can
00:12:52.99\00:12:56.46
accomplish everything,
the world is your oyster, and
00:12:56.50\00:12:59.94
you're going for it.
00:12:59.97\00:13:01.01
I was going for it -
except for good nights sleep -
00:13:01.04\00:13:03.95
that's right, even now.
00:13:03.98\00:13:05.55
Alright go-ahead.
00:13:05.59\00:13:07.02
At 26 I met my real
father - what was he like?
00:13:07.05\00:13:14.32
He was quite different,
actually, for all the time you
00:13:14.35\00:13:17.06
would think you would
take a long time to find him
00:13:17.09\00:13:19.76
actually found
him in ten minutes.
00:13:19.79\00:13:21.26
My real mom gave me his
real name - ten minutes what
00:13:21.29\00:13:25.82
did you do - my mom said I
would say when you get married
00:13:25.85\00:13:27.81
or through school or when
this happens or for this event.
00:13:27.85\00:13:29.96
I said, mom, I just want to
know who the guys is how the
00:13:30.00\00:13:32.08
guys health is, let
me get a hold of him.
00:13:32.11\00:13:33.85
You know, that is what I
told my mom, but there is also
00:13:33.88\00:13:36.37
this thing you want to
discover, you want to find out.
00:13:36.40\00:13:38.85
This is a neat thing
that you want to go through.
00:13:38.89\00:13:41.21
So in ten minutes I found
him and we had a conversation.
00:13:41.24\00:13:44.01
He asked me, so you think you're
my son well describe yourself.
00:13:44.05\00:13:48.22
Well, I have the same
eyes, the same forehead, as I'm
00:13:48.26\00:13:53.58
looking at a picture here.
00:13:53.61\00:13:54.65
We establish within
moments that I was his son.
00:13:54.69\00:13:57.94
He wanted to meet me
and he used it as a defining
00:13:57.97\00:14:01.19
moment, do you do
any hunting or fishing?
00:14:01.22\00:14:03.87
Of course I loved hunting
and fishing, so I said that -
00:14:03.91\00:14:07.03
you're my boy -
that's right, right.
00:14:07.06\00:14:08.94
So I went to visited
him and he told me what
00:14:08.98\00:14:13.50
his life is all about.
00:14:13.54\00:14:14.59
I told him I was in the
rock 'n roll business and doing
00:14:14.63\00:14:17.13
all these different things.
00:14:17.16\00:14:18.23
Of course he piped up
entertainment business too,
00:14:18.27\00:14:20.67
and he said that
he owns nightclubs.
00:14:20.70\00:14:22.50
I thought wow, boy howdy
how this is great, you own clubs
00:14:22.54\00:14:25.95
I thought it be great
to have a club sometime,
00:14:25.98\00:14:29.09
you know to run a club.
00:14:29.13\00:14:30.11
He said well you know they're
not your ordinary type clubs.
00:14:30.15\00:14:32.58
And I said what kind
of clubs, could they be?
00:14:32.62\00:14:35.49
He said well,
there are topless bars.
00:14:35.52\00:14:37.54
He actually says something else,
but I'll keep from saying that.
00:14:37.58\00:14:41.55
He said topless bars,
and I thought oh, okay.
00:14:41.58\00:14:46.28
And the level went down -
because you are already had
00:14:46.31\00:14:49.03
that experience and said
- I wasn't sure about it.
00:14:49.06\00:14:52.24
Now, I had siblings, you
know, his sons, they were
00:14:52.27\00:14:55.38
working in the business
and I got to meet them and they
00:14:55.42\00:14:57.65
are lovely,
their these great guys.
00:14:57.68\00:14:59.41
They hunt, they fish, and
they have dreams like anyone
00:14:59.44\00:15:01.97
else, they were good guys.
00:15:02.00\00:15:03.54
You know, you wonder what
these people are like, they
00:15:03.57\00:15:07.76
are involved in these clubs.
00:15:07.79\00:15:08.90
Well, here it is a family
that's involved in it and they
00:15:08.93\00:15:10.99
owned multiple clubs
and all these businesses.
00:15:11.03\00:15:12.98
Massage parlors,
and all kinds of things.
00:15:13.02\00:15:16.36
Truly to them it is a business
- totally like a family business
00:15:16.40\00:15:21.06
They are saying, come on,
come on, you should join us.
00:15:21.09\00:15:24.47
But I am already blazing my
own trail doing rock 'n roll.
00:15:24.50\00:15:27.84
It would be about 20
years later, within a span of
00:15:27.88\00:15:32.21
20 years later that I would
succumb to working for them.
00:15:32.24\00:15:35.52
And what's interesting to
it was not like I want to come
00:15:35.55\00:15:38.19
work for you and I want to
be around these girls, I want
00:15:38.22\00:15:40.82
to be a manager,
I'm really good at this.
00:15:40.86\00:15:42.48
No! It was more or less
like, you know what you're clubs
00:15:42.51\00:15:45.40
are really seedy.
00:15:45.43\00:15:46.62
They are your typical like
yuck clubs - let's kick them
00:15:46.65\00:15:50.05
up a bit - lets bring them up
to the 20th century, you know.
00:15:50.09\00:15:53.40
You know it's a mom pop
type club called a business.
00:15:53.44\00:15:58.96
So he gave me a club, he
wanted me to work in a club
00:15:58.99\00:16:04.48
down in Little Rock Arkansas.
00:16:04.51\00:16:05.85
He said here's a club, and
I said I don't want to do it.
00:16:05.88\00:16:08.34
He goes, because he
wanted me to manage,
00:16:08.38\00:16:10.98
I said I don't want to manage.
00:16:11.02\00:16:12.26
He said why don't
you want to manage?
00:16:12.29\00:16:13.97
I said I don't want to
be around these heartaches.
00:16:14.01\00:16:15.89
It was enough for me to
be around rock 'n roll and
00:16:15.92\00:16:18.23
women, and there is
something about that too,
00:16:18.27\00:16:20.55
how we view women.
00:16:20.58\00:16:21.74
There was a view that I had
on women and rock 'n roll too.
00:16:21.77\00:16:24.29
That also translate as -
can you say a little about
00:16:24.33\00:16:29.36
what that view is because there
is really, women are objects.
00:16:29.39\00:16:34.61
And that it almost has to
be in order to do that kind of
00:16:34.65\00:16:40.66
business, as you can't
look at them as people.
00:16:40.70\00:16:43.00
I daresay this, you just
look at them as playthings.
00:16:43.03\00:16:46.90
They are just objects they're
just playthings, just part
00:16:46.93\00:16:50.76
of the game, it's a
necessary evil part of it.
00:16:50.79\00:16:54.73
You go through it and grin
and bear it and you go next,
00:16:54.76\00:16:57.78
bring on the next
one, bring on the next one.
00:16:57.82\00:17:00.10
And you don't think about
the wake of damage you are
00:17:00.14\00:17:02.73
doing on these lives, how
you're contributing to none of
00:17:02.77\00:17:05.33
this - you know, what is
really interesting as I'm
00:17:05.37\00:17:08.62
getting to know you, as
I'm sitting here even in a the
00:17:08.65\00:17:11.87
time we've
spent it's been brief.
00:17:11.90\00:17:13.54
Is that my heart says that we
were both damaged in that deal.
00:17:13.58\00:17:18.08
Isn't it strange because I
can feel so much my damage,
00:17:18.11\00:17:21.47
and even coming on the
show I wanted to grab you and
00:17:21.50\00:17:24.82
just say I want you
to see what you did.
00:17:24.86\00:17:26.64
Now I want to say I'm
sorry for what I did by allowing
00:17:26.67\00:17:31.02
you to treat me like a
plaything and not ever being
00:17:31.06\00:17:35.38
something different for you.
00:17:35.41\00:17:36.68
It's kind of interesting
that God says I do want to
00:17:36.72\00:17:39.95
bring it full circle,
I want you both to heal.
00:17:39.99\00:17:42.70
That's why I call my
ministry Full Compass - no way,
00:17:42.73\00:17:44.97
how fun is that alright.
00:17:45.00\00:17:46.32
Bring us all around - alright.
00:17:46.36\00:17:47.72
So after talking with my
brothers, you want to be of
00:17:47.76\00:17:50.54
round your family, you
hunt and fish and all that.
00:17:50.57\00:17:53.60
And said well, I can do
this, the club gets some light
00:17:53.64\00:17:56.63
and get some sound effects.
00:17:56.67\00:17:57.75
I go down to this
club and hang out.
00:17:57.79\00:17:59.11
They don't even know who I
am down at this club, my hair
00:17:59.14\00:18:02.30
is like really long and
they just become a patron -
00:18:02.34\00:18:05.07
they don't know that your dad
- is the one that owns the club.
00:18:05.10\00:18:08.17
They want it that way,
so I'm going down there and
00:18:08.21\00:18:10.21
tipping all the girls and trying
to get free drinks, trying to
00:18:10.24\00:18:12.96
score drugs, and all the
things and owner doesn't want
00:18:12.99\00:18:15.64
to happen in his club because
he doesn't want to lose profit.
00:18:15.68\00:18:17.63
He doesn't want drugs
going on there - he doesn't want
00:18:17.66\00:18:19.37
anyone busted - pulling
girls out of the club, or
00:18:19.40\00:18:22.23
picking up on the girls.
00:18:22.27\00:18:23.69
I was successful to point
out all those and to report
00:18:23.72\00:18:27.30
back that the stuff was
all going on, no wonder you are
00:18:27.34\00:18:30.88
not making any money
down there at this club.
00:18:30.91\00:18:33.35
I said, if I was
running this club, I would
00:18:33.38\00:18:35.78
do a whole lot better.
00:18:35.82\00:18:36.93
That was what my
dad was looking for.
00:18:36.97\00:18:39.03
Now he is not just a
dummy who got in these, just
00:18:39.07\00:18:41.53
tripped over these clubs,
he's been doing this for years.
00:18:41.57\00:18:43.72
He's had many, many of
these clubs, probably 30
00:18:43.75\00:18:47.12
40 of these clubs.
00:18:47.16\00:18:48.24
And so for me to come
along, and I'm not the first guy
00:18:48.27\00:18:50.45
that came along, and said that
I could do something better.
00:18:50.48\00:18:52.84
But because I was his son,
so you think so, huh, so what
00:18:52.88\00:18:55.20
would you do better?
00:18:55.24\00:18:56.21
Well, I would do
this, this and this, really?
00:18:56.24\00:18:57.99
Oh well I'll tell you
what, if you can do this
00:18:58.02\00:18:59.73
I will give you that.
00:18:59.77\00:19:00.74
I want just a little bit
more than that for money,
00:19:00.75\00:19:02.78
you're talking about
the money now, I'll do this.
00:19:02.82\00:19:04.78
I'll do that and so the next
thing you know you're at it.
00:19:04.81\00:19:06.65
You make those
goals, and I'm hooked.
00:19:06.69\00:19:09.62
I'm hooked and more money
becomes more money, you're
00:19:09.66\00:19:13.21
working a whole lot
put in a lot in to this.
00:19:13.25\00:19:15.81
You are realizing in this
business there are a lot of
00:19:15.84\00:19:20.66
players and haters
in the whole business.
00:19:20.69\00:19:22.85
You distinguish from
those and actually I became very
00:19:22.88\00:19:26.57
reclusive, because I knew
if I was going to survive in
00:19:26.60\00:19:30.22
that business, I couldn't hang
out with anyone in that business
00:19:30.25\00:19:32.45
It's pretty dark - it's
pretty dark, it's very dark.
00:19:32.48\00:19:35.66
I survive in this thing,
because I wanted the money, and
00:19:35.70\00:19:38.84
I was told well, what do
you do with your days off?
00:19:38.87\00:19:41.55
Before - I literally watched
as a girl killed herself,
00:19:41.58\00:19:44.44
and the club owner said,
who's going to fill her shift?
00:19:44.48\00:19:47.39
Yeah - and I just wanted
to stop and say, does anybody
00:19:47.42\00:19:50.30
care that she
just killed herself.
00:19:50.33\00:19:52.00
I was so hurt and it was
all about who was going to feel
00:19:52.03\00:19:55.45
her shift because we
need to have this many
00:19:55.49\00:19:56.98
girls on at this shift.
00:19:57.02\00:19:58.24
And you have to stick to
that amount girls, if you go
00:19:58.27\00:20:01.03
lower, you go higher, you
go to high the girls complain,
00:20:01.06\00:20:03.78
and if you don't have
enough the owners complain.
00:20:03.81\00:20:05.59
And I really appreciate
that too because I've had girls
00:20:05.63\00:20:08.86
that have died in my club too.
00:20:08.89\00:20:10.82
From overdoses, or people
that stalked them and kill
00:20:10.85\00:20:13.29
them, from boyfriends that
have assassinated them, and
00:20:13.32\00:20:15.72
it really grieved my heart.
00:20:15.76\00:20:18.34
I think that through
death, that the Lord used that.
00:20:18.37\00:20:23.13
Got involved these clubs
and worked in them if things
00:20:23.16\00:20:28.03
got darker for me for
participating and very illicit
00:20:28.07\00:20:32.90
type sex -
because you get drawn in.
00:20:32.93\00:20:36.12
If so, I haven't seen
anybody in any club I worked in,
00:20:36.16\00:20:39.89
from the time I was 13
years old on, that I hadn't
00:20:39.93\00:20:43.03
seen anybody that
wasn't drawn in and twisted.
00:20:43.06\00:20:46.10
Right - when you are in that
environment it will twist you up
00:20:46.13\00:20:49.00
Somebody says I can handle
this, and I'm thinking don't
00:20:49.03\00:20:52.00
lie to yourself, the devil will
have you twisted in no time.
00:20:52.03\00:20:55.20
And I became twisted,
I mean really twisted.
00:20:55.24\00:20:57.69
There was a lot of things
there that I don't even feel
00:20:57.72\00:21:01.33
comfortable
talking about and stuff.
00:21:01.37\00:21:02.98
I still suffer from those,
and I still have to pray over
00:21:03.01\00:21:06.25
those things when
they come to mind.
00:21:06.28\00:21:07.94
You put everything underneath
the sexual conquest, in
00:21:07.98\00:21:11.25
rock 'n roll you
do it in the clubs.
00:21:11.29\00:21:12.92
My dad said to me, it
never got to a point where I
00:21:12.95\00:21:17.59
stopped, well I stopped
from having all these sorted
00:21:17.62\00:21:21.07
sexual affairs in the
club with the girls and stuff.
00:21:21.11\00:21:25.25
I just stopped dating
altogether or having anything to
00:21:25.29\00:21:29.40
do with any of them.
00:21:29.43\00:21:30.70
I just have to and I don't
mean to crack up, to call it
00:21:30.73\00:21:34.50
dating just cracks me up.
00:21:34.53\00:21:35.79
Well yeah - I know what
you're saying, but for a lot of
00:21:35.83\00:21:38.99
people watching, dating,
courting is something cool, and
00:21:39.02\00:21:42.14
that's not the same in the club.
00:21:42.18\00:21:44.01
It doesn't in fact, I
- but it was a nice word.
00:21:44.05\00:21:47.12
It was a nice word yeah.
00:21:47.15\00:21:49.19
A good word there, my dad
said to me, I know you are a
00:21:49.23\00:21:52.50
good-looking guy and
I know you're not gay.
00:21:52.53\00:21:54.10
He says, you got all
these girls I've got hundreds of
00:21:54.13\00:21:57.43
girls that are working for
me and some of them come up
00:21:57.47\00:22:00.74
to me and say, what
goes on with your son?
00:22:00.77\00:22:03.44
He said I - why does
become on to me - yeah,
00:22:03.48\00:22:06.12
why don't you tell them.
00:22:06.15\00:22:07.38
I would just use a little
smirk and patent answer and
00:22:07.42\00:22:10.28
said to him if I dated one,
I'd have to date two of them.
00:22:10.32\00:22:12.66
Because if there's any
conversation going on, I don't
00:22:12.69\00:22:15.00
want to get involved.
00:22:15.03\00:22:16.05
I really didn't want to get
involved, I did want to hear
00:22:16.08\00:22:18.10
what your life was all about.
00:22:18.13\00:22:19.53
Just make your shift,
just do your shift and go.
00:22:19.56\00:22:22.37
Don't tell me all your
excuses, don't tell your tires
00:22:22.40\00:22:25.41
got stuck in the snow when
you're down in Arkansas and
00:22:25.45\00:22:28.42
you could make it to your shift.
00:22:28.46\00:22:30.33
Those was one of
the excuses given to me.
00:22:30.37\00:22:31.92
One time, that was real
interesting was I got picked up
00:22:31.95\00:22:34.61
and almost raped and
beaten, I think the guy
00:22:34.64\00:22:37.35
was going to kill me.
00:22:37.38\00:22:38.35
I called in to work and said,
you know what, I was just crying
00:22:38.36\00:22:42.42
I had run, I don't how
many miles and this guy tried to
00:22:42.45\00:22:45.92
run me over with his car
when I jumped out of his car.
00:22:45.96\00:22:48.73
And all this kind is stuff
I called the club owner, and
00:22:48.77\00:22:52.27
I wanted someone to say
I'm sorry, and the guy said are
00:22:52.30\00:22:55.05
you trying to tell me you're
not going to make your shift?
00:22:55.09\00:22:57.80
And I just went man I
wanted to kill somebody.
00:22:57.83\00:23:01.69
I was that guy, a
was that guy - I know.
00:23:01.73\00:23:03.96
All that stuff came up
and I wanted, you know, it's
00:23:04.00\00:23:06.97
really interesting, because
it is that black-and-white.
00:23:07.01\00:23:09.70
You're going to make your
shift or not, don't tell me
00:23:09.74\00:23:12.40
you were almost
raped, I need you at work.
00:23:12.43\00:23:14.49
And I need you at work on time.
00:23:14.52\00:23:16.15
You get thick skin, you
hear those excuses, all over.
00:23:16.19\00:23:19.26
And the management says
listen, if you get this and you
00:23:19.29\00:23:22.00
get this, bonuses and you
do this, and some girls will
00:23:22.03\00:23:24.70
give you some excuse.
00:23:24.74\00:23:25.83
And you go, come on
Cheri, don't give me this stuff
00:23:25.86\00:23:28.24
anymore, I see you
coming a mile away.
00:23:28.27\00:23:31.44
You know, but what happens
when it's true, and you're so
00:23:31.48\00:23:35.31
thick-skinned, you
think about this stuff.
00:23:35.35\00:23:37.50
At least I did.
00:23:37.53\00:23:38.50
It was after taking one of
these clubs and revamping it,
00:23:38.51\00:23:43.91
we had already done
several and sold them for
00:23:43.94\00:23:47.51
quite a bit of money.
00:23:47.55\00:23:48.66
I was working on another club,
little different in the South.
00:23:48.70\00:23:53.74
I'm up in the mountain areas.
00:23:53.78\00:23:55.84
I look at this club that we
had redone, and we had put a
00:23:55.87\00:24:03.26
nice restaurant
in there with a chef.
00:24:03.29\00:24:05.43
And we have a nice wine
list and champagne for $500.00.
00:24:05.46\00:24:09.32
We have all this stuff -
so it's more of a gentleman's
00:24:09.36\00:24:13.19
club - not essentially
a gentleman's club too.
00:24:13.22\00:24:16.18
Now there are those
different levels, you can have a
00:24:16.21\00:24:18.48
sleazy club or a gentleman's
club and you are paying more.
00:24:18.52\00:24:21.33
We'll like to say
strips clubs, they call it a
00:24:21.36\00:24:23.83
gentleman's club.
00:24:23.87\00:24:25.66
But another thing to
that I have come about its all
00:24:25.70\00:24:28.88
pornography, but we don't
say pornography, that means
00:24:28.92\00:24:32.07
something illicit is going on.
00:24:32.10\00:24:33.51
In our society, they do not
look at it as illicit anymore
00:24:33.54\00:24:36.23
Because everyone does
that and there's a lot of
00:24:36.26\00:24:38.33
statistics that
support all that.
00:24:38.36\00:24:39.86
And that's probably something
another time, we can go
00:24:39.89\00:24:43.83
into - can I ask you
how you got out of that?
00:24:43.86\00:24:46.47
Because right now I just
feel oppressed by all that
00:24:46.51\00:24:49.39
knowing what that was like.
00:24:49.43\00:24:50.64
So how do you get out of
that how did God turn around
00:24:50.67\00:24:53.30
and say, you know what
you are going to be a pastor.
00:24:53.34\00:24:55.93
Where are you how
did you get lost here?
00:24:55.97\00:25:00.53
I have to give praise
to God on that, He never
00:25:00.56\00:25:05.28
let go of my hand.
00:25:05.31\00:25:06.51
Now, I think back on
Psalms 73 - what a Psalms 73?
00:25:06.55\00:25:11.21
Psalm 73, if the whole
Psalms there were Asaph slipped
00:25:11.25\00:25:15.91
on a slippery slope, a
little tongue twister there, but
00:25:15.94\00:25:20.57
he considered the people.
00:25:20.60\00:25:22.66
And he almost did what
they did when everybody else
00:25:22.70\00:25:25.08
is saying, I'm going to
paraphrase this, when everyone
00:25:25.11\00:25:27.51
in the whole world is saying
00:25:27.54\00:25:28.51
it's cool to party its
okay to do this, eat the fat,
00:25:28.52\00:25:31.67
have a good time party
drink good time, there is no God
00:25:31.70\00:25:34.82
There is no God that cares,
and they were just right in
00:25:34.85\00:25:37.93
God's face to
say all this stuff.
00:25:37.97\00:25:39.26
Asaph who didn't slip, but
he said he considered it, and it
00:25:39.30\00:25:42.83
wasn't until he went into
the sanctuary that he realized
00:25:42.86\00:25:46.36
the redemptive powers of it all.
00:25:46.40\00:25:48.61
I was in the clubs and
considering my handiwork, and we
00:25:48.65\00:25:53.42
were even talking about
buying a casino and doing this.
00:25:53.46\00:25:57.25
We were gone big time with
this, and I thought myself,
00:25:57.28\00:26:01.16
okay I am making a lot
of money doing this and I am
00:26:01.19\00:26:05.03
considering everybody.
00:26:05.07\00:26:06.06
I am looking at the dancers
on the stage, I am sitting
00:26:06.09\00:26:08.61
there in the glow of the
DJ lights up there in the back
00:26:08.64\00:26:11.12
in the darkness there.
00:26:11.15\00:26:12.55
I'm watching every thing
and considering the dancers on
00:26:12.59\00:26:15.39
the stage and thinking
about the guys that are
00:26:15.42\00:26:17.94
tipping them at my
wait staff and everybody.
00:26:17.97\00:26:20.45
I'm thinking
vanity, vanity, vanity!
00:26:20.49\00:26:22.29
It goes through my mind,
it goes through my mind, and I
00:26:22.32\00:26:24.93
am thinking on this.
00:26:24.97\00:26:25.94
Now I have to back up
here, 8 months earlier, the
00:26:25.95\00:26:28.31
seed that was planted by my
mother, who is dying of cancer.
00:26:28.35\00:26:32.54
She had asked me to pray
for her, and I thought, here I
00:26:32.57\00:26:35.58
am in these clubs, and
she's asked me to pray for her.
00:26:35.61\00:26:38.34
And I went along with the
charade and said sure I'll
00:26:38.38\00:26:41.07
pray for you.
00:26:41.10\00:26:42.07
I don't want to hurt my
mom, I can get for just about
00:26:42.08\00:26:43.68
anything, but I loved her.
00:26:43.71\00:26:44.99
But when it came down to the
chemo wasn't working, nothing
00:26:45.03\00:26:48.25
was working in her
life in frustration set in.
00:26:48.28\00:26:49.90
Mike, are you praying for me,
there was an opportunity there
00:26:49.93\00:26:52.89
to say yeah I know, I tried,
but it's not going to work
00:26:52.92\00:26:55.70
because I'm not that worthy.
00:26:55.74\00:26:56.93
She said like you come
over here and sit down, and I
00:26:56.97\00:26:59.07
want to share with you.
00:26:59.10\00:27:00.47
And I thought anyone
else, I know you will appreciate
00:27:00.50\00:27:03.38
this, you would have said,
stuff a sock, I'm not about it,
00:27:03.41\00:27:06.63
I'm not about to say
that, but it's your mom.
00:27:06.66\00:27:09.53
She starts talking to
me and I would like to say
00:27:09.56\00:27:12.36
something happened at
that point, but that is where a
00:27:12.39\00:27:14.10
seed was planted.
00:27:14.14\00:27:15.11
I dig go up in the mountains
there and I did pray about
00:27:15.12\00:27:18.47
a month later.
00:27:18.50\00:27:19.53
And I bared my soul to
God, and after many tears of
00:27:19.57\00:27:24.58
about an hour praying.
00:27:24.62\00:27:25.68
I got up and kind of defiantly
almost saying, I kind of had
00:27:25.71\00:27:28.85
enough of all this you know.
00:27:28.89\00:27:31.22
Because it was very different
for me the spiritualness,
00:27:31.26\00:27:33.51
being in this way.
00:27:33.54\00:27:35.12
So now you are in this
club, and everything is vanity -
00:27:35.15\00:27:37.51
everything is vanity.
00:27:37.55\00:27:38.83
I said, if you can do
something in my life have at it.
00:27:38.86\00:27:41.23
8 months later, I come to
the club, and I'm thinking
00:27:41.27\00:27:43.60
of vanity and who said
that Benjamin Franklin?
00:27:43.64\00:27:46.25
Where is this coming
from, is this a little cliché.
00:27:46.28\00:27:49.44
So I go home - I can see
all our viewers right now, no,
00:27:49.47\00:27:52.69
no, this is in the Bible -
it's Solomon, it's Solomon.
00:27:52.72\00:27:56.14
So I go on home, I going
into the refrigerator and grab
00:27:56.17\00:27:59.55
a beer and sit
down and put the TV on.
00:27:59.59\00:28:02.18
A 164 channels,
nothing on but gospel.
00:28:02.21\00:28:04.74
So I watching this black
gospel preacher up there and he
00:28:04.77\00:28:08.23
was talking about vanity.
00:28:08.26\00:28:09.73
Wow - and my
ears glued on vanity.
00:28:09.76\00:28:12.43
And he said yeah
it's in Ecclesiastes.
00:28:12.47\00:28:15.07
So I ran to the back room
and find a Bible, and I go in
00:28:15.11\00:28:18.66
there and see what
he is talking about.
00:28:18.69\00:28:20.44
And this show ends and I
keep reading Ecclesiastes, and I
00:28:20.47\00:28:24.38
keep reading it.
00:28:24.41\00:28:25.38
And I find that I am in
here, and then it says remember
00:28:25.39\00:28:28.61
also your Creator in
the days of youth, something
00:28:28.65\00:28:31.32
that I had
forgotten about it 19.
00:28:31.35\00:28:32.95
Why does this say to
remember the Creator in the
00:28:32.98\00:28:34.76
days of your youth?
00:28:34.79\00:28:35.76
We have so many
decisions to make,
00:28:35.77\00:28:37.00
and I took a different path.
00:28:37.03\00:28:38.72
You know what I want you
to hold that because I don't
00:28:38.75\00:28:42.51
want to quickly go over
this part of the story, this
00:28:42.54\00:28:46.27
part of your life.
00:28:46.30\00:28:47.27
And we have to take a break,
and this part, I know it is
00:28:47.28\00:28:49.96
blessing me just hearing
it so I know that it's going
00:28:50.00\00:28:52.67
to bless anybody that it's
going to bless all you guys.
00:28:52.70\00:28:55.10
So we're going to take a
break, we're going to find out
00:28:55.14\00:28:58.35
what Solomon say, what is
vanity, what does all that mean?
00:28:58.39\00:29:01.56
So stay with us,
we will be right back!
00:29:01.60\00:29:03.17