Welcome to
Celebrating Life and Recovery
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I'm your host Cheri, and
today I'm going to introduce
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you to a friend of mine
that literally came out of
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prison and
stepped into recovery.
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It is absolutely
the coolest thing ever.
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Come join us in the café.
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Welcome back, you know,
what is interesting to me is
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that when you talk about
somebody coming out of prison,
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coming out of that lifestyle.
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I was on the
street for ten years and
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most of you know that.
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I came out of some horrendous
things, but the people
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that I ran went in
and out of jail, and in
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and our of their addictions.
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I would have given
anything had all of them
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came out at the same time.
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had all of them had
joined me in my recovery,
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but that didn't happen.
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Most of them didn't come out.
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Most of them, I know didn't
even live long after I came out.
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So whenever I hear a prison
story of somebody coming out
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of jail at actually
been successful in recovery.
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I want to look at God and
kiss Him on the face, I want
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to just grab Him and say
thank you for not giving up.
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I want to even grab the
person in recovery and say,
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thank you that you fought
through every single thing
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that you had to fight through.
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And I know it's not
easy, but God bless you.
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And today I want to introduce
you to a friend that has come
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from that background,
and never gave up right?
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Lemuel never gave up.
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Cheri I want to say
thank you for your enthusiasm,
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for this program, and
there have been days where it
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seemed like there
was nowhere to turn.
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And I have lost many of
my partners and friends too.
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Drug addiction and that
is not enough to change us.
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Prison itself does not heal us.
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We can go to prison and
spend years incarcerated,
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and that is not
enough to fix us.
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You know, that is why our
prison rate is like 80 percent
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that we return to prison.
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Because the prison system,
locking us up and throwing
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the key away
doesn't change your heart.
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And that is a problem
that I see in society.
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In my life they tried
medicating me as a young
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child to predict my behavior.
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So tell us who you were
as a young child, because it
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doesn't start where
you just walk in a prison.
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As a young child I want to
say that the first few years of
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my life, I was a
raised a lot by my
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grandmother and my aunt.
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Where was your Dad?
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We lived in Chicago,
and we spent my summers
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down there that is
where I got my greater part of
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Christianity was from
my grandmother and aunt.
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I remember those days.
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Training as a
child, you don't forget.
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Before I was in
first grade, I remember
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two miracles in my life.
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We were out making
straw in the field,
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and I had lost my glasses.
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And my mother after
about a half an hour
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she said, let's pray.
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And so we all get down
in the field and we have
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prayer that they would
find my glasses, because I
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couldn't see without them.
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Just a few moments
later there they were.
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So that increased my
faith in Jesus as a little boy.
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And then one time when
my brother and I was playing
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in a tall corn
field, and we were lost.
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We're done playing,
and in an 80 acre field.
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We wanted to go home and
could not find our way out.
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And I said let's pray.
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You said that - yeah!
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My brother and I
kneeled down in the cornfield
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and we prayed.
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And the next way we
went that was the way out.
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So I believed in
Jesus from a little boy.
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But by the time I
was in first grade I had
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been robbed in Chicago.
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I had been robbed, they
stole my little nickels and
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balloons, so I had been robbed.
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You personally got robbed.
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I personally got robbed.
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Oh shut up you're
like in the first grade.
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I wasn't even
in first grade yet.
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We lived in a high-rise
apartment complex in Chicago.
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I had went down to the
sidewalk to meet my brother
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get off the bus.
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My mother told me never
to go under the viaduct.
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I went under the viaduct,
were she couldn't see me,
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and these guys came
and they said you have
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anything in that toolbox?
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I had a little tool box with me,
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And they said to you
have anything in that toolbox?
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yeah, I've got a couple
nickels and some balloons.
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They said there's a guy
is going to come and rob
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you so give it here.
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So I sit my toolbox
down and I opened it up,
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I gave it to him, he
busted me in my stomach and
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took off with the
balloons in the nickels.
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He hits you even, Oh!
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So I was robbed
before I was in first grade.
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And what is really for
a lot of people they don't
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understand that some
places you're raised and that's
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just what happens.
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Day in and day out
- day in and day out.
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There were a lot
gang type people that hung
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around our apartment building.
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One day we were coming out
of the apartment with my mom.
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She had two
children, one in each hand
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that I can remember.
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She said, don't look back.
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And we left that apartment
and all these people were out
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there, and I
turned to look back.
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I smiled at this
guy and he smiled back.
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So I knew that these people
that my mom were afraid of,
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that there were
something in their heart too.
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So, that was a
blessing as a young boy.
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I was introduced to
sexual things before
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I was in first grade.
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That encounter inspired me
then, it set me on the wrong
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road in life because
that's what I was seeking for.
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It awoken all the
sexual stuff, in you
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- which shouldn't be awoken yet.
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No it shouldn't be.
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First grade seem like
it went relatively well.
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I was thinking I was still
a happy kid in first grade,
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but by the time I was in
second grade, the teacher
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was tying me in my
seat with a jump rope.
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I mean taking a jump rope
and tying me fast in my seat
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in school, because
I was unmanageable.
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For a second grader to
be this unmanageable, it is
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medication ain't going to do it.
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I've seen psychiatrists-I
can't imagine being tied down
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with the
humiliation with your friends.
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I understand what she
was trying to do, but as your
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friends and your peers
that must have been goofy.
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It didn't work, I mean,
it didn't work, it didn't
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control my behavior.
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I never got recess,
and the only way I got my
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homework done, is that
I would go up to get the
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teachers editions off
the desk, because she was out
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with the children with recess.
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I would get my homework
done ahead of time two or three
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weeks ahead of time
and one day she came back.
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Got my book and
she looked through it.
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She didn't say a
word she put it back.
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I remember buying my
first pack of cigarettes
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in second grade.
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They were thirty five
cents, and I thought if I can
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sell these for a nickel
apiece, I'll make a dollar.
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So that's started
very young in my mind to
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try to make money.
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In a Christian school we
got caught smoking cigarettes.
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I was smoking cigarettes
with a seventh grade girl.
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We was out smoking cigarettes,
I couldn't sell them.
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I was giving them
for her to smoke, and she
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would give me candy.
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So then I went to
a stop smoking deal.
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The principal said, in
order to come back to school I
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had to go to a five-day
stop smoking plan, whatever.
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So I said to my mom I really
wasn't smoking, but I will go.
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After the program there
were police up there and
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they showed all the parents
all the things about drugs,
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marijuana, what is
this, what is that.
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So I got an education
on the uppers, downers,
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what is this, what is that.
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So, what I started hearing
that stuff on the street,
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that is what I sought
after even though I didn't
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know for sure what it was.
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Because I had heard it I
had gotten that understanding.
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So even when you said, you
heard it and literally enticed
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you, rather than repulsed you?
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Exactly-so it's
like I have got to find
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that that must be fun.
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What is an
upper, what is a downer.
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So, I learned as a young
boy, what I thought - what
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kind of guy were you?
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I mean is kid, were you
angry, were you everybody's
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friend, I mean, what
kind of guy were you?
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I never fit in anywhere.
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I never fit in school, I
had hardly any friends, I was
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kicked out of every school
maybe two times in a year.
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I would go to one school
or two schools in one year.
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So you weren't
there long enough to
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connect with anybody?
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No - really - no!
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I got bullied when I was
a little kid, I was fat and
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couldn't do any push-ups,
couldn't do any sit ups, I
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didn't fit in nowhere.
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And I wanted to fit in.
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And you know, I didn't
feel like I fit in real good
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with the family, because
my poor dad had to come down
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to teachers conferences,
come down to the jail, had to
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send me to counseling,
and all these issues.
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So, I felt a real problem
child, which I really was.
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When you said down to jail,
were you in juvenile hall too?
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I mean did you start
going into jail as a kid or a
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I was on my way
there, because I would
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not obey my parents.
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My dad couldn't beat it into me.
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Because beating I grew
up, do as I say, and finally
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he said, if you don't
want to respect the rules in my
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house, you can get out.
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And I said fine and
at that point I left.
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I don't know if I
was sixteen years old,
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right in that age somewhere.
00:08:41.97\00:08:44.05
So life at that
point, I believe I already
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found about alcohol.
00:08:48.68\00:08:49.76
That would stand down at
the 7-Eleven, and I'd say
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I'd buy you a six-pack
if you'd buy me a six-pack.
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I would drink
three or four quick.
00:08:53.55\00:08:54.86
I'd go home and go to
sleep, not meaning no harm,
00:08:54.89\00:08:57.40
just to make the
pain of life go away.
00:08:57.43\00:09:00.55
And life shouldn't have
been painful for me because I
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a loving family, loving mother.
00:09:02.77\00:09:04.23
I used to take a razor blade,
and like cut my arms, cut them.
00:09:04.26\00:09:08.65
I never knew why until I
heard on one of your last shows
00:09:08.68\00:09:11.46
about a girl cutting
herself on your last series.
00:09:11.49\00:09:15.22
It was Vickie Duffey.
00:09:15.25\00:09:16.31
I never understood, through
that I was getting some type
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of release, and I
felt like the bad guy.
00:09:18.67\00:09:21.39
And I would tear up my
room, I would trash my room.
00:09:21.42\00:09:23.37
I would break my
guitar, break my lights.
00:09:23.40\00:09:25.50
I would just frustrate
my grand parents, they would
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give me gifts, underwear, socks,
00:09:27.93\00:09:29.65
and new clothes for Christmas.
00:09:29.68\00:09:30.92
I didn't feel
worthy, I didn't feel
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I was worth anything.
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You know what's horrible, I
think when I hear you speak,
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is for a child they
cannot figure out why is this.
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Why don't I fit in.
00:09:40.40\00:09:41.51
Why don't I belong anywhere,
we don't know why, we don't
00:09:41.54\00:09:45.02
have any idea about genetic
00:09:45.05\00:09:46.20
predispositions, or that
you have a disorder, or that
00:09:46.23\00:09:50.41
you're hyperactivity or
any of that kind of stuff.
00:09:50.44\00:09:53.28
I just know I don't fit in.
00:09:53.31\00:09:54.62
I just know that nobody
wants me, I just know that when
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I walk in the
room everybody is like.
00:09:57.15\00:09:59.64
And it's like, how
do I deal with that.
00:09:59.67\00:10:02.47
And so like you
said, I just ripped things
00:10:02.50\00:10:04.48
up and I just broke things.
00:10:04.51\00:10:05.83
And that make you fit in less.
00:10:05.86\00:10:07.33
And then they send you to
a psychiatrist, and tell you
00:10:07.36\00:10:10.87
well have a good week,
keep your chin up, come back.
00:10:10.90\00:10:13.71
I felt like they did
really care about me.
00:10:13.74\00:10:15.68
I mean, you go in there
and sit down for an hour,
00:10:15.71\00:10:17.16
well, what are you thinking.
00:10:17.19\00:10:18.25
Well you're afraid to
tell them what you are thinking
00:10:18.28\00:10:19.26
because then they want to
lock you up or tell you that
00:10:19.29\00:10:21.37
you're really messed up.
00:10:21.40\00:10:22.84
And just as an example
because I was a student one time
00:10:22.87\00:10:28.48
going into the
mental health field.
00:10:28.51\00:10:30.30
So I was a student and
they sent somebody like you and
00:10:30.33\00:10:32.87
fourteen years old.
00:10:32.90\00:10:34.03
I said to him, as a student
I don't know anything, what
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are you thinking, and he
said, do you know I just want
00:10:36.98\00:10:38.75
to take a sledgehammer
and bash somebody's face in.
00:10:38.78\00:10:41.71
And I'm like this
student and I'm thinking, okay.
00:10:41.74\00:10:44.32
So it is like being able
to say, that's what I feel,
00:10:44.35\00:10:47.68
but I know if I tell you
that you're going to slam me
00:10:47.71\00:10:50.51
with the
authorities and lock me up.
00:10:50.54\00:10:52.21
But how do you said
to someone because I feel
00:10:52.24\00:10:55.42
inadequate, out of control.
00:10:55.45\00:10:56.54
Because when you say that I feel
like I want to kill somebody,
00:10:56.57\00:10:58.29
not that I am going to,
but that is what I feel like.
00:10:58.32\00:11:00.23
So what you do is you go
back in your quiet and cut
00:11:00.26\00:11:03.26
yourself some more.
00:11:03.29\00:11:04.26
I remember as a young boy,
I told my mom that I'm just
00:11:04.29\00:11:07.18
going to run away.
00:11:07.21\00:11:08.43
And she said, well I
will help you pack your bags.
00:11:08.46\00:11:09.91
And I packed my suitcase and
I got down to flights of stairs
00:11:09.94\00:11:13.57
and I thought, where
am I going to run to.
00:11:13.60\00:11:15.51
So I had this in my life,
work came from, I don't know.
00:11:15.54\00:11:19.15
As a little child, I
just wanted to run away.
00:11:19.18\00:11:21.85
So that laid out
something in my life,
00:11:21.88\00:11:24.92
I never wanted
to be responsible.
00:11:24.95\00:11:26.17
Responsibility for me
has been hard, along with
00:11:26.20\00:11:28.96
many of my friends and
partners, drug addictions,
00:11:28.99\00:11:31.07
and alcoholism.
00:11:31.10\00:11:32.07
We don't know how
to be responsible.
00:11:32.09\00:11:33.45
Once we get started down
that road, responsibility seems
00:11:33.48\00:11:35.64
like something we do
not know how to deal with.
00:11:35.67\00:11:37.43
However, just because I
feel I understand you just
00:11:37.46\00:11:42.40
because of my own childhood.
00:11:42.43\00:11:43.50
The first time I did
drugs were I really got high,
00:11:43.53\00:11:47.52
I didn't have
any of that stress.
00:11:47.55\00:11:49.42
Do you have
that sense, response?
00:11:49.45\00:11:51.00
Yeah, I was free.
00:11:51.03\00:11:52.06
Finally, for the first time,
I found something that works.
00:11:52.09\00:11:54.67
Where I fit in, is I
didn't fit in the school,
00:11:54.70\00:11:57.66
I didn't fit in
society, I fit in when I began
00:11:57.69\00:12:01.59
to meet people with drugs.
00:12:01.62\00:12:03.47
I had the money they had
the drugs, I began to sell
00:12:03.50\00:12:07.87
drugs for people
so I finally fit in.
00:12:07.90\00:12:10.59
People will call me
and I would go to see them,
00:12:10.62\00:12:13.99
So I felt like a
little businessman.
00:12:14.02\00:12:16.03
I felt like hey, I
can make this work.
00:12:16.06\00:12:17.88
So then, one day my
mother was in the grocery
00:12:17.91\00:12:21.87
store, and she
always had to put back the
00:12:21.90\00:12:24.70
groceries she
couldn't really afford.
00:12:24.73\00:12:26.50
Like the extra things, I
mean to get the bread and
00:12:26.53\00:12:28.42
the things that she needed,
the necessities and if there was
00:12:28.45\00:12:30.84
enough money left
she'd buy these few things.
00:12:30.87\00:12:32.83
And one day I was able
to get my mother some money,
00:12:32.86\00:12:35.14
I said here mom, buy it all.
00:12:35.17\00:12:37.58
And she said where did
you to get the money son?
00:12:37.61\00:12:39.40
I said mom, I worked for it.
00:12:39.43\00:12:41.19
And at that young age in
my life, I thought that if I
00:12:41.22\00:12:44.08
could have enough money, money
would take care of the problems
00:12:44.11\00:12:47.10
for the car, the house.
00:12:47.13\00:12:48.61
Money would fix
the life's problems.
00:12:48.64\00:12:50.59
And you know what by the
time I was eighteen years old.
00:12:50.62\00:12:53.27
I had thousands of dollars.
00:12:53.30\00:12:54.90
At my dad was right,
he said son, if you don't
00:12:54.93\00:12:57.96
straighten up, you're going
to be in prison by the time
00:12:57.99\00:13:00.28
you are eighteen years old.
00:13:00.31\00:13:01.51
And I had to cry, eighteen
years old I had to cry and look
00:13:01.54\00:13:05.05
through that little
window, and my dad was
00:13:05.08\00:13:06.98
sitting on other side.
00:13:07.01\00:13:07.98
I said Daddy, you're
right, and I said I'm sorry.
00:13:07.99\00:13:11.15
So through all that our
lives are so messed up an
00:13:11.18\00:13:14.84
unmanageable, as
children, the psychiatrist in my
00:13:14.87\00:13:19.01
life did not have the answers.
00:13:19.04\00:13:20.31
In a medication that
they gave me that said I
00:13:20.34\00:13:22.89
would have be on the
rest of my life, that didn't
00:13:22.92\00:13:24.59
do the trick either.
00:13:24.63\00:13:25.60
So here I go off to prison
as a young man unmanageable.
00:13:25.63\00:13:28.93
And I can't even imagine
you sitting in prison now,
00:13:28.96\00:13:33.16
say now what, I mean, now, what?
00:13:33.19\00:13:35.56
What was prison life
like and what was your crime.
00:13:35.59\00:13:39.13
Burglary, drugs, and arson.
00:13:39.16\00:13:42.38
And how long did you stay in?
00:13:42.41\00:13:45.58
I spent a year in the
county jail and three years
00:13:45.61\00:13:47.64
in am maximum security prison.
00:13:47.67\00:13:49.11
What was that like, because
that was a whole different
00:13:49.14\00:13:51.10
world, I whole
different culture.
00:13:51.13\00:13:52.28
First of all, I would
tell you I gave my lawyer
00:13:52.31\00:13:55.33
thousands of dollars.
00:13:55.36\00:13:56.67
He promised me he
would get me to work camp,
00:13:56.70\00:13:58.44
I gave him thousands of dollars.
00:13:58.47\00:14:00.31
Here are I was let down again.
00:14:00.34\00:14:01.73
There went my
money and they put me
00:14:01.76\00:14:03.57
in a maximum - security prison.
00:14:03.60\00:14:05.10
So when you walk into prison,
you've got a little gold,
00:14:05.13\00:14:07.38
nice watch, and all
the stuff from the world.
00:14:07.41\00:14:09.87
And all of a sudden all
these people say gimme that, let
00:14:09.90\00:14:12.60
me buy that, than say man,
you better get you a shank.
00:14:12.63\00:14:15.17
And I'm like man, you
know, I found myself handcuffed.
00:14:15.20\00:14:19.72
For somebody that
doesn't know what a shank is.
00:14:19.75\00:14:21.18
A shank is a weapon,
homemade weapon to stab somebody
00:14:21.21\00:14:24.78
to defend yourself.
00:14:24.81\00:14:25.94
At that moment I was
scared to death, because if
00:14:25.97\00:14:29.20
they are telling me I
need this, I was scared to
00:14:29.23\00:14:31.81
go to bed tonight.
00:14:31.84\00:14:32.89
And in this world, you
need to defend yourself.
00:14:32.92\00:14:36.43
You need to be able to
do if something comes down.
00:14:36.46\00:14:39.36
You need to
step up to the plate.
00:14:39.39\00:14:41.63
I found myself shackled
and handcuffed to some guy I
00:14:41.66\00:14:45.28
didn't even know
doing life in prison.
00:14:45.31\00:14:47.64
So we get off this bus at
the back gate, the Indiana
00:14:47.67\00:14:50.48
reformatory, with a thirty
foot wall and a gun tower.
00:14:50.51\00:14:53.61
I was just like
unbelievable here we are.
00:14:53.64\00:14:56.27
Here you're eighteen,
he's older doing life,
00:14:56.30\00:14:58.49
he has nothing to lose.
00:14:58.52\00:14:59.96
Nothing to lose - you
better not say anything wrong.
00:14:59.99\00:15:02.23
I get into the prison there
and I talked to my counselor
00:15:02.26\00:15:08.63
and got me a cell house
and I didn't run with nobody.
00:15:08.66\00:15:12.85
I mean, I loved everybody,
I mean, you're my friend.
00:15:12.88\00:15:15.57
It's like I say
they've got lots of
00:15:15.60\00:15:17.84
little groups and clicks.
00:15:17.87\00:15:19.01
If I set on the black side of
the chow hall or the white side.
00:15:19.04\00:15:22.20
It didn't matter to me,
because we're all here together,
00:15:22.23\00:15:25.69
It was like college
campus, yes, there was terrible
00:15:25.72\00:15:29.41
things that went on.
00:15:29.44\00:15:30.41
I was going to say
you'd never been to college.
00:15:30.42\00:15:32.07
Because I'm
thinking, I don't know if
00:15:32.10\00:15:34.32
it was like college campus.
00:15:34.35\00:15:36.08
I've never been to
college, I should have
00:15:36.11\00:15:37.58
been graduated from college.
00:15:37.61\00:15:38.66
But in prison - it's a
whole different kind of college.
00:15:38.69\00:15:41.69
There were people
who lost their lives
00:15:41.72\00:15:43.35
during my incarceration.
00:15:43.38\00:15:44.89
There were people
that got sexually abused.
00:15:44.92\00:15:46.71
There's lots of terrible
issues that go on in prison,
00:15:46.74\00:15:49.59
but if you conduct yourself
in a way, by God's grace,
00:15:49.62\00:15:55.80
prison, went well for me
until the last year I was there.
00:15:55.83\00:16:01.60
Why what
happened in the last year.
00:16:01.63\00:16:04.07
My brother got out, my
brother and I went there on the
00:16:04.10\00:16:06.10
same charge, so we
were in the same prison.
00:16:06.13\00:16:07.56
My brother got out before
I did and I had this group of
00:16:07.59\00:16:10.44
inmates come up to me and
they said, you need to either
00:16:10.47\00:16:13.74
start paying us,
giving us sex, or get a man.
00:16:13.77\00:16:17.08
You get a man that you get
hooked up with somebody who
00:16:17.11\00:16:19.54
looks out for you or whatever.
00:16:19.57\00:16:20.54
I was sick, I had stayed
my cell that day for lunch.
00:16:20.55\00:16:23.66
Can I just say, because
the people when I was homeless
00:16:23.69\00:16:28.04
for ten years, people I
loved one in and out of prison.
00:16:28.07\00:16:30.70
When they went in they would
come out so twisted that it
00:16:30.73\00:16:34.45
was almost like we had to
help them heal from all the
00:16:34.48\00:16:38.24
damage that happened
to them behind the bars.
00:16:38.27\00:16:40.00
It was that culture there
was nothing, you didn't decide
00:16:40.03\00:16:43.35
whether you wanted to
step into that or not.
00:16:43.38\00:16:45.37
You're in this, you
are going to survive it
00:16:45.40\00:16:47.28
the best you can.
00:16:47.31\00:16:48.42
I was surprised at how
wounded some of my friends were
00:16:48.45\00:16:52.47
when they came out.
00:16:52.50\00:16:53.47
It's crazy in prison.
00:16:53.48\00:16:54.91
You see two men rolling
around on the playground,
00:16:54.94\00:16:57.48
I mean rolling and
kissing and hugging.
00:16:57.51\00:16:59.57
Then you see people
threatening people, and running
00:16:59.60\00:17:01.87
stores, extortion, yes
they have drugs in prison, yes,
00:17:01.90\00:17:05.30
they make alcohol in prison.
00:17:05.33\00:17:06.66
So, those things
are very, very real.
00:17:06.69\00:17:10.24
And we have a
choice in or out of prison,
00:17:10.27\00:17:12.23
how we are going to live.
00:17:12.26\00:17:13.48
And I chose the wrong way
when I was out here in society.
00:17:13.51\00:17:15.70
When I was in
prison, yes, I sold drugs,
00:17:15.73\00:17:17.65
And yes I didn't
do the right things.
00:17:17.68\00:17:19.01
My brother got out of
prison a year before I did.
00:17:19.04\00:17:21.99
These guys come up and
threatened me, told me I either
00:17:22.02\00:17:24.37
needed to get a man, start
paying him or give him sex.
00:17:24.40\00:17:26.59
I said look, man, I've
been here too long for that.
00:17:26.62\00:17:29.40
I said you need to take
that stuff somewhere else.
00:17:29.43\00:17:31.32
And that evening they came
back to me, I was outside of
00:17:31.35\00:17:33.98
my cell at this time, they
came back to me and they told
00:17:34.01\00:17:36.60
me, do you remember
what we were talking about?
00:17:36.63\00:17:38.03
I said yes I do, they said what
are you going to do about it?
00:17:38.06\00:17:41.86
I turned and looked out the
window and said not a thing.
00:17:41.89\00:17:44.72
And it beat me up so bad,
I was three stories up and
00:17:44.75\00:17:49.14
they beat me so bad.
00:17:49.18\00:17:50.25
I went to the chow hall to
see my friend, my friend is
00:17:50.28\00:17:55.25
from Gary's and he's been
there for twenty some years,
00:17:55.28\00:17:57.60
been locked up many, many years.
00:17:57.63\00:17:58.71
He had stood up for me
a few months before that.
00:17:58.74\00:18:01.47
I was all my work and he
said, Vega. What's wrong?
00:18:01.50\00:18:05.05
I said why do you
ask me what's wrong?
00:18:05.08\00:18:07.20
Because in prison, you
don't tell people your problems,
00:18:07.23\00:18:09.41
because then they want to
dig into your life and make
00:18:09.44\00:18:13.04
use of your problems.
00:18:13.07\00:18:14.24
So I said, why do
you ask me what is wrong?
00:18:14.27\00:18:16.12
He said, because I
don't see your smile, no more.
00:18:16.15\00:18:18.27
I said really, well,
these dudes over there in H cell
00:18:18.30\00:18:22.04
are talking
about taking my watch.
00:18:22.07\00:18:23.69
And he sent word over
there, you all leave Vega alone.
00:18:23.72\00:18:26.16
Vega don't bother nobody,
you all leave Vega alone,
00:18:26.19\00:18:28.16
so it got quiet,
for a few months.
00:18:28.19\00:18:30.75
This thing came
down so I got beat up in
00:18:30.78\00:18:33.04
a bad way in prison.
00:18:33.07\00:18:35.53
But something happen in
prison Cheri, and that was I was
00:18:35.56\00:18:40.12
smart enough, I
would read my Bible.
00:18:40.15\00:18:41.51
I had a wonderful lady that
would write to me, she would
00:18:41.54\00:18:44.52
write to me every day and
I would get this letter every
00:18:44.55\00:18:46.74
day that said, smile God
loves you keep your chin up.
00:18:46.77\00:18:49.83
And that was an encouragement
to me that somebody would
00:18:49.86\00:18:52.22
care about me, not for
drugs, not for money, I'm in
00:18:52.25\00:18:55.54
prison, I haven't got anything
left in my life anymore.
00:18:55.57\00:18:57.96
So, that was a
daily encouragement to me.
00:18:57.99\00:19:00.88
It was a lifeline - a lifeline.
00:19:00.91\00:19:02.66
I would run, any time I
got in the rec yard I'd run
00:19:02.69\00:19:06.80
three or four miles a day.
00:19:06.83\00:19:08.45
I would just run and
think out side of that wall.
00:19:08.48\00:19:10.74
That's what kept me
thinking in a positive way.
00:19:10.77\00:19:15.37
I never hoped to get out
of prison, because I hoped for
00:19:15.40\00:19:19.14
probation, my bond reduction.
00:19:19.17\00:19:20.53
My hopes were
always dashed, so I didn't
00:19:20.56\00:19:22.55
hope to get out of prison.
00:19:22.58\00:19:23.79
I figured if I would
stab somebody or get stabbed,
00:19:23.82\00:19:26.25
I didn't know I was
afraid to hope again.
00:19:26.28\00:19:28.68
But I thought I'm getting
out of prison in about a year.
00:19:28.71\00:19:32.39
Can I just stay
with that for a minute?
00:19:32.42\00:19:34.75
Because one of the things
that I see a lot of people
00:19:34.78\00:19:37.60
including myself
have to heal from,
00:19:37.63\00:19:39.44
is that you do stop hoping.
00:19:39.47\00:19:41.65
It's like when
somebody says do you have
00:19:41.68\00:19:43.31
any dreams or anything.
00:19:43.34\00:19:44.41
It's like, what
are you talking about.
00:19:44.44\00:19:46.15
It is as if you have a
dream, somebody can take it so
00:19:46.18\00:19:48.44
you literally force
yourself never to think that
00:19:48.47\00:19:52.52
you are going to get something.
00:19:52.55\00:19:53.91
Or that you
going to be something.
00:19:53.94\00:19:55.45
or you're going to be
able to arrive at something.
00:19:55.48\00:19:58.26
And the better you can do that,
00:19:58.29\00:20:00.82
the easier your life becomes.
00:20:00.85\00:20:03.07
Right you are protected
by not sharing your dreams.
00:20:03.10\00:20:05.29
You just keep them to yourself.
00:20:05.32\00:20:07.27
You know to be when you
even said that just then, I
00:20:07.30\00:20:10.30
remember the sadness of
having most my life ever daring
00:20:10.33\00:20:14.76
to hope for something.
00:20:14.79\00:20:15.78
I wanted to say to you,
Lem, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
00:20:15.81\00:20:19.95
It really is a horrible
place to be, to know that I
00:20:19.98\00:20:23.83
don't dare ever dream anymore.
00:20:23.86\00:20:25.15
Because I don't
want to hurt anymore.
00:20:25.18\00:20:27.44
It was about a year before
a got out of prison, that I
00:20:27.47\00:20:31.50
said if I don't quit using
drugs in here, I am not going
00:20:31.53\00:20:34.83
to quit the day I
walk out that front door.
00:20:34.86\00:20:36.78
And I wanted to quit,
I mean, I wanted to be a
00:20:36.81\00:20:40.60
productive member of society.
00:20:40.63\00:20:41.76
I wanted to be different than
when I came in that back gate.
00:20:41.79\00:20:44.34
So I quit using drugs,
but I continue to sell drugs.
00:20:44.37\00:20:47.69
The day that they
finally released me -
00:20:47.72\00:20:50.26
I'm sorry I'm like what.
00:20:50.29\00:20:51.80
So still, you're doing
business, this is what I do.
00:20:51.83\00:20:55.65
Make money for the
commissary will I did it today.
00:20:55.68\00:20:59.47
I am not going to use it
no more, I'm getting out here
00:20:59.50\00:21:01.50
about a year, I don't
want to use them no more, but I
00:21:01.53\00:21:03.37
continue to sell
them in the prison.
00:21:03.40\00:21:04.86
And the day they let me
out, I mean my pass was coming
00:21:04.89\00:21:08.70
the next day to where I
was going to be released,
00:21:08.73\00:21:10.42
and I still didn't
even really hope it.
00:21:10.45\00:21:13.98
I gave all my
stuff away and my partner
00:21:14.01\00:21:17.53
walked me up to the gate.
00:21:17.56\00:21:18.56
And they opened the
first gate, and then the
00:21:18.59\00:21:21.71
second gate and then the
third gate and the fourth gate
00:21:21.74\00:21:25.41
and Donna, which is
now my wife, was sitting
00:21:25.44\00:21:28.96
there in the waiting room.
00:21:28.99\00:21:29.96
And I went Cheri, and I
sit in that waiting room for
00:21:29.99\00:21:32.51
two or three hours.
00:21:32.54\00:21:34.76
I didn't even leave the
prison because I was scared to
00:21:34.79\00:21:36.80
leave the prison.
00:21:36.83\00:21:38.08
Because if I step
out, they are going to come
00:21:38.11\00:21:39.28
up with another crime.
00:21:39.31\00:21:40.45
I just didn't know, I mean,
I was scared to go back out
00:21:40.48\00:21:42.90
to society because you
come in at eighteen all messed
00:21:42.93\00:21:45.30
up, and how is
it going to be now?
00:21:45.33\00:21:47.23
I remember going to the
mall for the first time.
00:21:47.26\00:21:51.52
I walked down through
the mall and I heard all this
00:21:51.55\00:21:53.30
beep, beep, beep, beep.
00:21:53.33\00:21:54.55
When I went to prison pinball
machines was a big thing.
00:21:54.58\00:21:56.54
When I came out, there was
no more pinball machines, it
00:21:56.57\00:21:58.45
was all this new computer stuff.
00:21:58.48\00:22:00.03
First thing I went to buy
was shirt or something and they
00:22:00.06\00:22:03.29
went to scanned it.
00:22:03.32\00:22:04.29
I can't imagine the
people let's been locked
00:22:04.30\00:22:06.12
up for years and
years and years and years.
00:22:06.15\00:22:07.81
Cause things were different and
you'd only been 4 years or so.
00:22:07.84\00:22:10.29
So through all that stuff,
I grew up, I wanted what was
00:22:10.32\00:22:16.76
right when I got out of prison.
00:22:16.79\00:22:18.07
I tried to do the right thing.
00:22:18.10\00:22:21.05
I began to go to church,
we got married about a year,
00:22:21.08\00:22:26.25
about months after I
got out we got married.
00:22:26.28\00:22:29.02
You know my brain is stuck
right now, because I'll just
00:22:29.05\00:22:35.24
tell you why it is stuck.
00:22:35.27\00:22:36.24
When somebody said to
me when I was strung out on
00:22:36.25\00:22:38.72
heroine, just stop using it
your life will be different.
00:22:38.75\00:22:41.20
I stopped using it and
my life was not different.
00:22:41.23\00:22:43.46
I had all this junk still.
00:22:43.49\00:22:44.77
So how did you go from
stepping out of the prison
00:22:44.80\00:22:47.91
to going to church.
00:22:47.94\00:22:49.05
Did you have a fallout
from your character stuff
00:22:49.08\00:22:51.88
or your junk I mean.
00:22:51.91\00:22:54.27
No, I started going to church.
00:22:54.30\00:22:56.77
I wanted what was
right, and I wanted this
00:22:56.80\00:22:58.60
junk to be cleaned up.
00:22:58.63\00:22:59.76
And I went to church and
tried to do what was right.
00:22:59.79\00:23:02.10
But in my life I was
it was still burden down.
00:23:02.13\00:23:05.81
It's still burden down and then
you start taking nerve pills.
00:23:05.84\00:23:10.20
The doctor says you're
getting married you need some
00:23:10.23\00:23:12.61
nerve pills or
whatever, start again.
00:23:12.64\00:23:15.36
So, that just started an
addiction all over again even
00:23:15.39\00:23:16.88
though it's not
cocaine and heroin or alcohol.
00:23:16.91\00:23:18.10
And it feels legal because
the doctor gave it to me.
00:23:18.13\00:23:20.60
You don't want to leave
home without a little bottle of
00:23:20.63\00:23:22.21
pills because it is legal.
00:23:22.24\00:23:23.34
So then I began to take
drugs back to the prison, to the
00:23:23.37\00:23:29.39
police to give to my
partner sell in the prison.
00:23:29.42\00:23:31.72
Then the drug
addiction just all started,
00:23:31.75\00:23:35.83
it just slammed down on me.
00:23:35.86\00:23:37.53
Can I ask you, you know,
I'm not going to ask you this
00:23:37.56\00:23:40.79
next question until
we come back from break.
00:23:40.82\00:23:42.55
And just to set you up for
this is that I want to know
00:23:42.58\00:23:46.62
you and Donna get married,
and how does she take all
00:23:46.65\00:23:51.51
this in, and how was
that changed for her?
00:23:51.54\00:23:53.99
Especially when you said
I went right back bringing
00:23:54.02\00:23:56.28
drugs to the prison.
00:23:56.31\00:23:57.31
So, we are going to go
ahead and take a break,
00:23:57.34\00:23:58.70
but I want you to stay with us,
00:23:58.73\00:24:00.14
because it is
absolutely amazing.
00:24:00.17\00:24:02.73
The next few steps of Lem's
life is absolutely amazing.
00:24:02.76\00:24:06.06
Who he is right now is
a man of God, it's cool,
00:24:06.09\00:24:10.03
it really is cool.
00:24:10.06\00:24:11.23
He is solid, and I
am not saying perfect,
00:24:11.26\00:24:14.44
but solid in his recovery.
00:24:14.47\00:24:16.66
So we will be right back.
00:24:16.69\00:24:17.66
Stay with us you
are going to be blessed!
00:24:17.67\00:24:21.01