The following program
discusses sensitive issues
00:00:01.36\00:00:03.37
related to addictive behavior.
00:00:03.40\00:00:05.00
Parents are
cautioned that some material
00:00:05.03\00:00:06.74
may be too candid
for younger children.
00:00:06.77\00:00:11.04
You know, there are times,
00:00:11.07\00:00:12.64
that there's trouble in paradise
00:00:12.67\00:00:14.14
and you question
your very sanity,
00:00:14.18\00:00:16.58
don't think you're gonna
make it and our guest today,
00:00:16.61\00:00:19.11
a friend of mine, is gonna talk
about just that time for him,
00:00:19.15\00:00:22.55
it's amazing story.
00:00:22.58\00:00:23.99
Welcome to
Celebrating Life and Recovery,
00:00:24.02\00:00:25.69
I'm Cheri, your host,
come join us at the cafe.
00:00:25.72\00:00:28.46
We talk about changes
in paradise, you know,
00:00:57.19\00:00:59.65
we're going to
this whole season,
00:00:59.69\00:01:01.42
"Victory in Jesus."
00:01:01.46\00:01:02.79
The book is amazing,
00:01:02.82\00:01:04.69
if you want any other
programs on the series
00:01:04.73\00:01:07.86
or you wanna go in depth
about what we've talked about,
00:01:07.90\00:01:10.93
just go to the
website called 3ABN,
00:01:10.97\00:01:13.94
go ahead and get the book.
00:01:13.97\00:01:15.54
On our website,
00:01:15.57\00:01:16.91
we'll post some of the
stuff that we've covered
00:01:16.94\00:01:18.71
but on this particular chapter,
00:01:18.74\00:01:20.41
we're looking at a
radical interchange
00:01:20.44\00:01:22.98
and as some people
think radical interchange,
00:01:23.01\00:01:25.11
what does that mean?
00:01:25.15\00:01:26.48
Well, it's really
obvious what it means
00:01:26.51\00:01:27.85
if you're heroin addict and all
00:01:27.88\00:01:29.22
and you've got to
change your lifestyle
00:01:29.25\00:01:31.32
and you've gotta
change, you know,
00:01:31.35\00:01:32.75
you're not relying on
drugs and all that kind of stuff
00:01:32.79\00:01:35.29
but what happens
when you're more...
00:01:35.32\00:01:38.16
And I hate to say normal
00:01:38.19\00:01:39.53
'cause I haven't
met anyone normal yet.
00:01:39.56\00:01:41.33
I keep thinking I'm
going to but, you know,
00:01:41.36\00:01:43.53
you're more acceptable
00:01:43.57\00:01:44.93
as far as this
struggles that you have.
00:01:44.97\00:01:46.94
So, you know, I have
been invited a ton of times
00:01:46.97\00:01:52.07
to New Zealand and I
love, the people I've met there,
00:01:52.11\00:01:56.11
the ministries,
00:01:56.14\00:01:57.48
the folks that I've
been involved with are,
00:01:57.51\00:02:00.05
they're off the
chart, incredible folks.
00:02:00.08\00:02:02.38
And there's a girl that
I worked with, Michelle,
00:02:02.42\00:02:04.59
and Michelle, if
you're watching this,
00:02:04.62\00:02:06.79
I adore you, I adore you.
00:02:06.82\00:02:08.99
She is on fire for God,
00:02:09.02\00:02:12.43
she's really
involved in a community,
00:02:12.46\00:02:15.06
if she see somebody
that need to change,
00:02:15.10\00:02:16.83
she wants to kind
of put some together
00:02:16.87\00:02:18.63
that is gonna help them.
00:02:18.67\00:02:20.10
So we're running our program,
Celebrating Life and Recovery,
00:02:20.14\00:02:22.77
14 week program,
we've done a number of...
00:02:22.80\00:02:26.27
Had it run in a
number of churches,
00:02:26.31\00:02:27.88
Salvation Army,
Assemblies of God,
00:02:27.91\00:02:30.51
the Adventist churches,
00:02:30.55\00:02:31.91
community centers,
we've run it in prisons.
00:02:31.95\00:02:34.82
At one point,
there was a 163 baptisms
00:02:34.85\00:02:37.39
at the end of one of
the cycles of evangelism,
00:02:37.42\00:02:41.59
that one of the church uses.
00:02:41.62\00:02:43.53
So we would, I mean, we would...
00:02:43.56\00:02:44.89
Having a great time.
00:02:44.93\00:02:46.26
So Michelle invites me
back, I fly in, I love her,
00:02:46.29\00:02:50.40
you know, we have this
reunion, we go to It is Written,
00:02:50.43\00:02:53.80
which is another
ministry that we work for there,
00:02:53.84\00:02:57.11
it's incredible
00:02:57.14\00:02:58.54
and this guy comes
walking across the parking lot
00:02:58.57\00:03:02.08
and I have to say,
00:03:02.11\00:03:03.75
I looked at him and he was just,
00:03:03.78\00:03:06.28
there was a presence about him
00:03:06.31\00:03:07.82
that was so
powerful as a man of God.
00:03:07.85\00:03:10.45
There was something that...
00:03:10.49\00:03:12.55
It just took me back, you know,
00:03:12.59\00:03:15.09
this is an
incredible man I've got
00:03:15.12\00:03:16.56
but he looked beat up.
00:03:16.59\00:03:18.19
I mean, he
looked beat up in ways
00:03:18.23\00:03:19.63
that I couldn't even understand
and so then Michelle says,
00:03:19.66\00:03:22.80
"Oh, my brother is coming."
00:03:22.83\00:03:25.43
And I thought, "Your brother?"
00:03:25.47\00:03:26.90
'Cause I'm thinking
and I gotta just say,
00:03:26.94\00:03:29.67
welcome to the program.
00:03:29.70\00:03:31.04
'Cause, you know,
I'm talking about you.
00:03:31.07\00:03:32.41
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:32.44\00:03:33.78
So as you start walking
up, Damas said, that I think,
00:03:33.81\00:03:37.71
you know, something is really
seriously happening in his life
00:03:37.75\00:03:41.38
and I can see it in your eyes.
00:03:41.42\00:03:42.92
One of the things I
noticed when we first met
00:03:42.95\00:03:45.95
is that you almost look
like you were walking dead.
00:03:45.99\00:03:50.93
Do you know what
I'm talking about?
00:03:50.96\00:03:52.29
I was the walking dead.
00:03:52.33\00:03:53.76
I said to you,
"How're you doing?"
00:03:53.80\00:03:58.07
And I think you
said, "Fine" at first.
00:03:58.10\00:04:00.20
I, of course, it's
the polite thing to say,
00:04:00.24\00:04:02.64
"I'm fine, thank you."
00:04:02.67\00:04:04.67
And I kind of stepped
into your space a little bit.
00:04:04.71\00:04:08.91
Just a little bit.
00:04:08.94\00:04:10.28
And I said,
"How're you doing, really?"
00:04:10.31\00:04:12.55
Yeah, yeah, you kept
to the chase and you,
00:04:12.58\00:04:17.65
yeah and I said what.
00:04:17.69\00:04:20.52
He said something
like, you know, what?
00:04:20.56\00:04:24.66
"Today, I feel like dying,
00:04:24.69\00:04:27.73
I would love to
just kill myself."
00:04:27.76\00:04:29.76
Your sister,
everything in her changed.
00:04:29.80\00:04:33.54
I watched her lose
the color in her face,
00:04:33.57\00:04:36.50
I watched her look
at me like, you know,
00:04:36.54\00:04:38.74
I'm inviting you into
work with the community
00:04:38.77\00:04:41.81
and my brother just said
that and I didn't know that
00:04:41.84\00:04:44.85
and so I said, "You know what?
00:04:44.88\00:04:46.58
I want you and I just
to talk for a minute."
00:04:46.61\00:04:48.68
And so you and I spent some time
00:04:48.72\00:04:51.25
and then I asked
you to join us later.
00:04:51.29\00:04:53.49
Michelle even
said, you gotta come out,
00:04:53.52\00:04:56.76
we need to talk.
00:04:56.79\00:04:58.13
And so tell me,
00:04:58.16\00:04:59.49
do you remember
anything about that day
00:04:59.53\00:05:00.86
and the reason I ask you
that, that was not long ago.
00:05:00.90\00:05:03.50
No.
00:05:03.53\00:05:04.87
But I think that you were
so lost in your depression
00:05:04.90\00:05:09.10
and your despair
00:05:09.14\00:05:11.17
that I don't think you
were remembering a lot.
00:05:11.21\00:05:14.01
No, I was, you know,
00:05:14.04\00:05:16.91
when people say
you're out to lunch,
00:05:16.95\00:05:18.75
I was out to
breakfast, lunch and dinner.
00:05:18.78\00:05:21.02
I was gone and doing my best
to try and keep it together,
00:05:21.05\00:05:27.32
I mean, I was
completely beaten up,
00:05:27.36\00:05:28.79
I was severely depressed.
00:05:28.82\00:05:31.99
Tell us a little bit
about what got you to that day,
00:05:32.03\00:05:35.80
'cause you were Very
successful in your life.
00:05:35.83\00:05:38.43
Yeah. That one point.
00:05:38.47\00:05:40.14
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeez, where do I start?
00:05:40.17\00:05:43.84
No, I start where my
mother tried to beat me up
00:05:43.87\00:05:45.67
in the stomach and...
00:05:45.71\00:05:47.04
Yeah.
00:05:47.08\00:05:48.41
You know, tried to abort
me and trying overdose on salt
00:05:48.44\00:05:50.38
which is really funny
because 'cause I love salt
00:05:50.41\00:05:52.15
and I didn't find out
00:05:52.18\00:05:53.52
until I meet her
at the age of 27,
00:05:53.55\00:05:55.18
when she confess that to me.
00:05:55.22\00:05:57.19
She probably thought
I could dry up the fluid
00:05:57.22\00:06:00.06
or somehow get
rid of this child.
00:06:00.09\00:06:01.42
Yeah, yeah, she would beat up,
00:06:01.46\00:06:02.96
I mean, people said, 'abortion.'
00:06:02.99\00:06:05.13
I've just realized
that was attempt to murder.
00:06:05.16\00:06:06.83
Yeah.
00:06:06.86\00:06:08.20
So I suppose,
00:06:08.23\00:06:10.07
I wasn't exactly in
a loving environment
00:06:10.10\00:06:11.90
for nine months.
00:06:11.93\00:06:13.37
So when I popped out, of course,
00:06:13.40\00:06:14.80
I didn't know any different
and then my mother left,
00:06:14.84\00:06:18.07
you know, few years
later and abandoned me,
00:06:18.11\00:06:20.58
so the fear of rejection,
00:06:20.61\00:06:21.94
the abandonment
and feeling beat up,
00:06:21.98\00:06:23.31
was my entry into this world.
00:06:23.35\00:06:26.38
You were raised
by grandparents...
00:06:26.41\00:06:27.75
And my grandparents...
Different places...
00:06:27.78\00:06:29.12
Yeah, my dad's parents.
00:06:29.15\00:06:31.42
Jim and Pat Manderson
they brought my sister and I,
00:06:31.45\00:06:34.62
which is an absolute blessing.
00:06:34.66\00:06:36.83
However, it
didn't take away the pain
00:06:36.86\00:06:38.76
that I couldn't
actually put a name to,
00:06:38.79\00:06:41.93
just wanting my
mummy and daddy around,
00:06:41.96\00:06:44.07
you know, and so yeah,
00:06:44.10\00:06:46.63
just the beginning
of my life was about,
00:06:46.67\00:06:49.24
I would be happy go lucky.
00:06:49.27\00:06:50.61
At school, I was
known as the clown and...
00:06:50.64\00:06:52.17
Nobody knew. No one knew.
00:06:52.21\00:06:54.31
And I love what you're saying,
00:06:54.34\00:06:55.68
is that nobody knew any of this.
00:06:55.71\00:06:57.81
So you were really
good at hiding everything.
00:06:57.85\00:07:01.18
You over achieved in a
lot of different areas.
00:07:01.22\00:07:04.59
Yeah, the
teachers would always say
00:07:04.62\00:07:07.96
that I was a very
intelligent person
00:07:07.99\00:07:09.42
but I wasn't very good
00:07:09.46\00:07:10.86
at applying myself academically.
00:07:10.89\00:07:14.03
I shouldn't be proud of the fact
00:07:14.06\00:07:15.40
that I was the first student
00:07:15.43\00:07:16.77
to ever get kicked
out of Bible class.
00:07:16.80\00:07:18.90
Were you? At school, yeah.
00:07:18.93\00:07:20.60
I think it still
stands on this...
00:07:20.64\00:07:21.97
And I can't even
believe 'cause your grandma,
00:07:22.00\00:07:25.01
in just when I
first met her, she's like,
00:07:25.04\00:07:28.31
"Cheri Peters on
3ABN" and she's kissing me.
00:07:28.34\00:07:31.41
So she's very religious,
00:07:31.45\00:07:34.12
you were raised in
that kind of environment,
00:07:34.15\00:07:36.25
went to, did you go
to Christian school?
00:07:36.28\00:07:37.89
Yes. And kicked out of Bible.
00:07:37.92\00:07:40.12
Yes.
00:07:40.16\00:07:41.49
Yes, for asking questions,
00:07:41.52\00:07:46.70
which I found out later,
00:07:46.73\00:07:49.00
I'm really happy
to ask questions,
00:07:49.03\00:07:51.70
but yes, so
anyway going from there,
00:07:51.73\00:07:53.07
just go through school
00:07:53.10\00:07:54.44
and yeah, just be
the clown and be happy
00:07:54.47\00:07:56.30
and I wasn't the kind of person
that would get outwardly angry
00:07:56.34\00:08:00.34
and take it out on other people.
00:08:00.38\00:08:02.88
Ironically, I would
beat myself up internally.
00:08:02.91\00:08:05.18
So...
00:08:05.21\00:08:06.55
In what sense,
what did that look like?
00:08:06.58\00:08:09.48
Look, I don't
need you put me down,
00:08:09.52\00:08:11.09
I can put myself down
enough, thank you very much.
00:08:11.12\00:08:13.39
Right, so when you
looked in the mirror...
00:08:13.42\00:08:15.09
Yeah, yeah, I
didn't know who I was.
00:08:15.12\00:08:18.53
I didn't know my identity
00:08:18.56\00:08:19.93
as a son or as a man
00:08:19.96\00:08:26.94
or as a boy growing up.
00:08:26.97\00:08:28.80
What I knew is that
I had these feelings
00:08:28.84\00:08:31.04
that I really couldn't put,
I couldn't describe my feeling.
00:08:31.07\00:08:35.24
I say if that
was probably, set up
00:08:35.28\00:08:38.28
to allow me to get depressed
somewhere down the line.
00:08:38.31\00:08:41.35
So I would chase things,
00:08:41.38\00:08:42.72
I would try and
chase happiness and...
00:08:42.75\00:08:45.19
And make it happen.
Yeah. And make it happen.
00:08:45.22\00:08:47.86
And the end, you
know, I left school
00:08:47.89\00:08:50.99
and I did an
apprenticeship in carpentry.
00:08:51.03\00:08:53.33
And all I knew is I
wanted to build my own house,
00:08:53.36\00:08:56.00
have my own
flash car and a boat.
00:08:56.03\00:08:58.50
Yeah. And that was my desire.
00:08:58.53\00:08:59.87
And I'll be happy.
00:08:59.90\00:09:01.24
And I'll be happy and even then,
00:09:01.27\00:09:02.60
when I did my
apprenticeship in carpentry,
00:09:02.64\00:09:03.97
I didn't really
know what I wanted to do
00:09:04.01\00:09:05.87
but it was good that I was
able to work with my hands.
00:09:05.91\00:09:08.94
And then, you know,
00:09:08.98\00:09:11.61
then I got
introduced to the world
00:09:11.65\00:09:13.15
of summer camps
in America in 1990
00:09:13.18\00:09:16.99
and that was the beginning
of transformation in my life.
00:09:17.02\00:09:22.26
So how did you
get from New Zealand
00:09:22.29\00:09:25.59
to summer camps in America?
00:09:25.63\00:09:27.53
I was, I walked
away from the church
00:09:27.56\00:09:31.10
'cause I didn't feel
loved and accepted there
00:09:31.13\00:09:34.70
and I ended up DJing in
the number one night club
00:09:34.74\00:09:37.11
in Oakland for a little
while and I didn't realize it
00:09:37.14\00:09:41.21
but that's where I
found a fellowship,
00:09:41.24\00:09:42.94
that's where I found acceptance.
00:09:42.98\00:09:44.68
I belong there.
00:09:44.71\00:09:46.05
I belong and in the late '80s,
00:09:46.08\00:09:48.35
that was a pretty radical move
00:09:48.38\00:09:49.92
because the club that I DJed in,
00:09:49.95\00:09:53.25
was accepting for heterosexual
and homosexual people,
00:09:53.29\00:09:56.42
so it really
was outside the box.
00:09:56.46\00:09:59.29
And we all...
00:09:59.33\00:10:01.30
Heterosexual and homosexual,
we all had one thing in common,
00:10:01.33\00:10:04.00
we desired to be accepted.
00:10:04.03\00:10:07.50
And so I fit in
perfectly as far as that culture
00:10:07.54\00:10:10.71
and ended up DJing and...
00:10:10.74\00:10:14.01
So let me get it
clear for somebody
00:10:14.04\00:10:15.61
that may not have heard you,
is that sometimes they'll say,
00:10:15.64\00:10:18.58
"Well, if you were in
a bisexual, heterosexual,
00:10:18.61\00:10:22.38
homosexual club,
you're probably gay."
00:10:22.42\00:10:24.25
So you want to
say, "I'm not gay..."
00:10:24.29\00:10:25.62
No.
00:10:25.65\00:10:26.99
"I had the same
issues as everybody there,
00:10:27.02\00:10:28.62
that we just wanted to
belong, we wanted to fit in..."
00:10:28.66\00:10:30.86
Yeah. "We wanted to have fun.
00:10:30.89\00:10:32.23
and we didn't wanna
think about not being wanted,
00:10:32.26\00:10:34.93
being rejected,
00:10:34.96\00:10:36.30
dealing with all that
craziness and that place..."
00:10:36.33\00:10:39.33
Yeah. "Gave us that brake."
00:10:39.37\00:10:40.70
Yeah, thanks
for clarifying that.
00:10:40.74\00:10:42.07
Now I didn't go in
as a gay person or...
00:10:42.10\00:10:44.67
Wanting to even
go down that road,
00:10:44.71\00:10:47.08
it was a place
where it took my mates,
00:10:47.11\00:10:49.34
12 months to get me down there
00:10:49.38\00:10:50.91
and what finally
got me down there,
00:10:50.95\00:10:52.31
is I see these
beautiful celebrities
00:10:52.35\00:10:53.92
and models down
there and I feel very safe.
00:10:53.95\00:10:55.98
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, "Okay."
00:10:56.02\00:10:58.69
"Oh, There you got me there."
00:10:58.72\00:11:00.96
And then I realized
that we're all people,
00:11:00.99\00:11:02.92
we're all people on a journey
00:11:02.96\00:11:04.29
just trying to
find out their place
00:11:04.33\00:11:06.53
and fit into society.
00:11:06.56\00:11:08.36
Trying to survive.
00:11:08.40\00:11:09.73
And I've got, still got
some close friends today
00:11:09.76\00:11:13.84
who are gay and I
support them very much.
00:11:13.87\00:11:17.11
Of course, in a "normal."
whatever you say normal is,
00:11:17.14\00:11:20.18
that is not
necessarily acceptable.
00:11:20.21\00:11:21.61
So that was
another hit against me
00:11:21.64\00:11:23.04
as far as rejection and stuff
00:11:23.08\00:11:24.78
because I got
called all those names.
00:11:24.81\00:11:26.15
I got too coward that I was that
00:11:26.18\00:11:27.72
because I associated with,
00:11:27.75\00:11:29.48
but something
deep inside of me said,
00:11:29.52\00:11:31.12
"Don't let go of that.
00:11:31.15\00:11:32.49
Don't let go of the
friendships that you've made.
00:11:32.52\00:11:34.09
Look beyond..."
00:11:34.12\00:11:35.46
Yeah, and I wanna
just clarify another thing
00:11:35.49\00:11:39.03
and the reason I do this
00:11:39.06\00:11:40.40
is that I don't
want to lose anybody
00:11:40.43\00:11:41.90
that's kind of
listening but we, yeah,
00:11:41.93\00:11:45.37
one of my best friends
has been in the gay lifestyle
00:11:45.40\00:11:48.97
most of her life
00:11:49.00\00:11:50.64
and she asked me
what do I think about gays
00:11:50.67\00:11:53.07
and I said, you know what?
00:11:53.11\00:11:54.44
I have, it's not my issue
00:11:54.48\00:11:55.94
and I have a ton of other issues
00:11:55.98\00:11:57.71
but what I think is God is
just trying to get us home.
00:11:57.75\00:12:00.12
He's just trying to save us,
00:12:00.15\00:12:01.48
He's just trying to
get us in our own skin.
00:12:01.52\00:12:03.39
So if anybody's gonna
judge anybody on anything,
00:12:03.42\00:12:07.22
it's gonna be God Himself.
00:12:07.26\00:12:09.09
Everyone else,
really has all our own thing
00:12:09.12\00:12:13.06
that we're gonna have
to kind of answer for us.
00:12:13.09\00:12:15.96
So you're in this
club, you're deejaying,
00:12:16.00\00:12:19.43
you finally find a place to fit
and what happened from there?
00:12:19.47\00:12:24.87
'Cause you've really got
successful in your journey.
00:12:24.91\00:12:27.84
Well, it actually,
00:12:27.88\00:12:31.05
what started me
on my track back,
00:12:31.08\00:12:32.45
is I did a summer camp program
00:12:32.48\00:12:33.98
in the Blue Ridge
Mounts of Virginia
00:12:34.02\00:12:36.08
and it was Christian,
00:12:36.12\00:12:38.42
the very thing I
didn't wanna be around
00:12:38.45\00:12:40.29
but I ended up there.
00:12:40.32\00:12:42.29
The movies that
we saw in New Zealand
00:12:42.32\00:12:43.89
were pretty good
about summer camps,
00:12:43.93\00:12:45.26
you know, people
got up to mischief
00:12:45.29\00:12:46.73
and had a little bit
of fun and, you know,
00:12:46.76\00:12:48.33
push the boundaries
00:12:48.36\00:12:49.70
and that's why I felt
summer camp was so perfect.
00:12:49.73\00:12:51.07
I'm just gonna act out
and go skiing, waterskiing.
00:12:51.10\00:12:52.87
Where it's this fun. Yeah.
00:12:52.90\00:12:54.24
Yeah, and so I
ended up at this camp
00:12:54.27\00:12:57.47
and that was the beginning
of transformation of my life,
00:12:57.51\00:13:01.04
then I went back, I've
got serious about business,
00:13:01.08\00:13:02.78
I mean, you know what?
00:13:02.81\00:13:04.15
If I wanna keep
going back to the States
00:13:04.18\00:13:05.71
and giving my
"little peace back"
00:13:05.75\00:13:07.85
or learning more
about Jesus, then I need to.
00:13:07.88\00:13:12.32
Can I ask you, at summer camp,
00:13:12.35\00:13:14.29
what happened
that all of the sudden,
00:13:14.32\00:13:17.19
got that attention of that kid,
what happened that you're like,
00:13:17.23\00:13:21.40
you know, maybe there's
something to this God thing?
00:13:21.43\00:13:25.80
You mean like,
00:13:25.83\00:13:27.17
what took me out
of that environment
00:13:27.20\00:13:28.54
and enter into
the camp environment?
00:13:28.57\00:13:30.81
Yeah, when you
came back changed.
00:13:30.84\00:13:33.84
I came back
changed, it was a battle.
00:13:33.88\00:13:37.58
For me, it was
ten steps forward,
00:13:37.61\00:13:40.35
nine steps back.
00:13:40.38\00:13:41.72
Ten steps
forward, 11 steps back,
00:13:41.75\00:13:43.42
ten steps
forward, one step back.
00:13:43.45\00:13:44.82
That's been my journey in
trying to discover who I am
00:13:44.85\00:13:49.32
and who I am in Jesus.
00:13:49.36\00:13:51.49
But that was
enough to trigger me
00:13:51.53\00:13:52.89
into really entertaining
00:13:52.93\00:13:54.53
the entrepreneurial spirit in me
00:13:54.56\00:13:57.07
and I went on.
00:13:57.10\00:13:58.43
And when I meet Dina in
'95, then I got really serious.
00:13:58.47\00:14:03.47
And Dina, explain who she is?
00:14:03.51\00:14:05.47
Dina is my wife and...
00:14:05.51\00:14:08.01
You fell in love?
00:14:08.04\00:14:09.38
Yeah, we fell in love,
00:14:09.41\00:14:10.88
I asked her to
come back to New Zealand
00:14:10.91\00:14:12.25
to see if we're
compatible for marriage
00:14:12.28\00:14:13.75
and eight weeks later,
we eloped, that Christmas.
00:14:13.78\00:14:17.09
So we went back to the
States and I asked her father
00:14:17.12\00:14:19.75
if I could marry
her and he said, "Yes"
00:14:19.79\00:14:21.56
and then I said, "I
got something to tell you."
00:14:21.59\00:14:23.56
And he said, "What?"
And I said, "We're married.
00:14:23.59\00:14:26.80
But I'm glad we got
the blessing first."
00:14:26.83\00:14:28.16
Yeah.
00:14:28.20\00:14:29.53
Of course,
Dina's mother was upset
00:14:29.56\00:14:31.83
'cause she wanted the church,
you know, the church thing...
00:14:31.87\00:14:33.74
In the white dress.
00:14:33.77\00:14:35.10
So one year later,
we had it in America,
00:14:35.14\00:14:37.14
in La Porte, Indiana,
00:14:37.17\00:14:38.87
where my wife is from and
we had a beautiful wedding.
00:14:38.91\00:14:42.78
I don't recommend
doing it the way that we did
00:14:42.81\00:14:44.75
but, you know, we
truly loved each other
00:14:44.78\00:14:46.48
and we're 20 years last year...
00:14:46.51\00:14:47.95
She's amazing.
Twenty one years in August.
00:14:47.98\00:14:49.32
Yeah. Oh, she is amazing.
00:14:49.35\00:14:50.69
Yeah, yeah, to put
up with me, especially.
00:14:50.72\00:14:52.82
Yeah.
00:14:52.85\00:14:54.19
So you guys get
married, you get serious about,
00:14:54.22\00:14:57.23
you know, I really
want to drive myself,
00:14:57.26\00:15:00.70
be successful.
00:15:00.73\00:15:02.80
Yes, and but the
success, it was brilliant.
00:15:02.83\00:15:08.40
I mean, property development,
00:15:08.44\00:15:11.07
I started off
buying and selling houses,
00:15:11.11\00:15:13.71
then I started renovating houses
00:15:13.74\00:15:15.14
and then I
started doing speck houses
00:15:15.18\00:15:16.91
and then I went into,
00:15:16.95\00:15:18.28
going on to doing consultancy
00:15:18.31\00:15:20.62
and then doing
little sub-divisions,
00:15:20.65\00:15:24.49
many sub-divisions.
00:15:24.52\00:15:26.79
And then I was able to consult
other big developers in Oakland
00:15:26.82\00:15:29.66
and Oakland's the
biggest city in New Zealand.
00:15:29.69\00:15:32.13
Things were going
really good, I was very driven,
00:15:32.16\00:15:36.13
doing it for the
right reasons, I thought...
00:15:36.16\00:15:39.43
You're right, successful
in what you were doing.
00:15:39.47\00:15:40.80
And successful.
00:15:40.84\00:15:42.17
I got used to...
00:15:42.20\00:15:44.37
I loved the property
development, I always,
00:15:44.41\00:15:46.51
having a wonderful
relationship with Jesus
00:15:46.54\00:15:48.11
as I thought...
00:15:48.14\00:15:50.41
I got to just say,
00:15:50.45\00:15:51.78
I'm listening to your
friend of yours one time
00:15:51.81\00:15:53.65
and because this is
so far out of my realm
00:15:53.68\00:15:57.09
as far as thinking
00:15:57.12\00:15:58.55
but they were talking
about developing some property
00:15:58.59\00:16:00.89
and so is John, John...
00:16:00.92\00:16:02.66
So John talked
about developing property
00:16:02.69\00:16:05.39
and getting roads and
water and all that kind of stuff
00:16:05.43\00:16:08.66
and if we could do
this, this and this,
00:16:08.70\00:16:11.93
this five
million dollar property,
00:16:11.97\00:16:13.64
ends up paying for itself
and we could just move in there
00:16:13.67\00:16:16.14
and I'm like, "That is genius."
00:16:16.17\00:16:18.61
So it really is
a different world.
00:16:18.64\00:16:21.68
But everything
has to be considered
00:16:21.71\00:16:23.88
while you're improving the area,
00:16:23.91\00:16:27.18
how you're gonna get all
that permits that you need,
00:16:27.22\00:16:29.62
all the roads that you
need and all that kind of stuff.
00:16:29.65\00:16:32.02
But it's high
energy, high intensity
00:16:32.05\00:16:33.92
and what I hear you saying
00:16:33.96\00:16:36.06
is, "I was very good
at that, I loved it."
00:16:36.09\00:16:39.76
If could say so, yeah,
I was passionate about it,
00:16:39.79\00:16:44.47
the whole development
mindset of looking at something
00:16:44.50\00:16:47.57
and then visualizing
00:16:47.60\00:16:48.94
what it could
end up looking like.
00:16:48.97\00:16:50.51
And then you
implement the systems
00:16:50.54\00:16:52.47
and the
strategies to get from A to Z
00:16:52.51\00:16:55.18
and I love that whole process.
00:16:55.21\00:16:57.18
And I realize,
being a visionary,
00:16:57.21\00:16:59.95
I could actually
see the end product
00:16:59.98\00:17:02.32
but then I knew,
00:17:02.35\00:17:03.69
end products only works
with good details to start,
00:17:03.72\00:17:05.69
you know, the fist step.
00:17:05.72\00:17:07.06
So that's how I,
that's how my business grew
00:17:07.09\00:17:09.99
and I ended up being a sort
of a conundrum in the industry
00:17:10.03\00:17:14.93
'cause I had
the local knowledge,
00:17:14.96\00:17:16.56
I had the respect of
well to do developers,
00:17:16.60\00:17:19.97
they're like my IP.
00:17:20.00\00:17:22.20
And so life was good
and I've had, you know,
00:17:22.24\00:17:27.48
the Lord blessed big
time, He blessed the skill set
00:17:27.51\00:17:30.68
that He gave me
00:17:30.71\00:17:32.05
and then I was
able to implement it
00:17:32.08\00:17:33.88
and through that, it came
into a lot of good investments
00:17:33.92\00:17:39.09
that I held on to,
along with selling others
00:17:39.12\00:17:41.19
and so by 2003,
00:17:41.22\00:17:43.06
when my second child came along,
00:17:43.09\00:17:45.53
I was with a few million dollars
00:17:45.56\00:17:47.13
and that felt really good.
00:17:47.16\00:17:49.56
Everything is
right. Everything is right.
00:17:49.60\00:17:50.93
I have the boat,
I have the house,
00:17:50.97\00:17:52.30
I have beautiful
wife, my children...
00:17:52.33\00:17:53.77
Actually, you know what?
00:17:53.80\00:17:55.14
I didn't do the boat
and I didn't do the house...
00:17:55.17\00:17:56.60
You did not do the boat...
And I didn't do the car...
00:17:56.64\00:17:57.97
You're wait...
00:17:58.01\00:17:59.34
No, I thought,
"Well, I can wait."
00:17:59.37\00:18:01.28
You know, I'm on a role here...
00:18:01.31\00:18:02.64
You're in New Zealand.
00:18:02.68\00:18:04.01
Yeah... You need a boat...
00:18:04.05\00:18:05.38
I know, I was
thinking that's crazy.
00:18:05.41\00:18:06.75
But I was, I suppose
delayed gratification
00:18:06.78\00:18:09.72
if you want to quote.
00:18:09.75\00:18:11.09
I would put it
back into investments,
00:18:11.12\00:18:12.45
I'll put it
back into my business
00:18:12.49\00:18:14.16
and I was serious about
creating residual income.
00:18:14.19\00:18:17.76
I wanted to retire
early, so I could go about,
00:18:17.79\00:18:20.76
at that time, I convinced
myself or I can just go
00:18:20.80\00:18:22.76
and minister any where
in the world for the Lord.
00:18:22.80\00:18:24.63
But once I get to this...
Once I get to this point...
00:18:24.67\00:18:26.43
Once I have this
much in the bank.
00:18:26.47\00:18:27.90
Once I get that
point, you know, and yeah,
00:18:27.94\00:18:31.31
and that's what I
found myself doing.
00:18:31.34\00:18:33.51
Just been very focused.
00:18:33.54\00:18:34.98
You are and I know I push you
00:18:35.01\00:18:38.08
when I even have
you talk like this
00:18:38.11\00:18:41.05
but did you have
a specific number,
00:18:41.08\00:18:43.18
once I get this
much in the bank,
00:18:43.22\00:18:45.75
I actually can then pull back
00:18:45.79\00:18:48.72
and work for God, do ministry.
00:18:48.76\00:18:52.16
I did but the goal
post keeps changing.
00:18:52.19\00:18:54.70
Okay.
00:18:54.73\00:18:56.06
So once I hit that particular
million dollar figure.
00:18:56.10\00:18:59.53
Right, then it was two or five?
00:18:59.57\00:19:02.40
At that point it was five.
00:19:02.44\00:19:04.31
It just wasn't enough,
I found myself thinking,
00:19:04.34\00:19:07.58
"Well, I can
make that work more,
00:19:07.61\00:19:09.44
just a little bit more,
just a little bit more."
00:19:09.48\00:19:11.35
So...
00:19:11.38\00:19:12.71
So when, man, I
hope this makes sense
00:19:12.75\00:19:17.22
but there are times in our lives
00:19:17.25\00:19:19.89
when we are driven
to seek after power
00:19:19.92\00:19:23.43
or that kind of thing,
00:19:23.46\00:19:25.43
from a place of
power listeners as a child,
00:19:25.46\00:19:29.50
I don't think it
ever really gets mad.
00:19:29.53\00:19:31.73
Like you said, it
keeps changing on you.
00:19:31.77\00:19:34.60
But as a child I'm
wondering If do I fit,
00:19:34.64\00:19:38.37
does anybody want me.
00:19:38.41\00:19:39.77
And now I'm able to do this,
make a difference politically,
00:19:39.81\00:19:43.45
people know who you
are, all that kind of stuff
00:19:43.48\00:19:46.68
but it doesn't, it's not enough.
00:19:46.72\00:19:48.85
You know, there
was always anxiety,
00:19:48.88\00:19:50.92
there was always
journey with me in this,
00:19:50.95\00:19:53.66
my business model
and I couldn't shake it.
00:19:53.69\00:19:58.23
And, of course,
that would depend
00:19:58.26\00:19:59.89
to a little bit of
depression every now and then
00:19:59.93\00:20:01.33
but nothing, nothing major,
00:20:01.36\00:20:02.96
I could deal,
just push through it.
00:20:03.00\00:20:05.03
But it was never, I
found myself in a place
00:20:05.07\00:20:07.30
where it was never good enough
00:20:07.34\00:20:08.97
but I could
justify myself in saying,
00:20:09.00\00:20:10.81
"Well, I'm doing it
for the right reasons."
00:20:10.84\00:20:12.97
You know, I'm
wealthy enough to stop
00:20:13.01\00:20:16.01
and live of my
investments but now I just,
00:20:16.04\00:20:19.71
"Okay, Lord, let's
work on the next deal.
00:20:19.75\00:20:21.52
Shall we?"
00:20:21.55\00:20:22.88
And I was very good
at convincing myself
00:20:22.92\00:20:24.52
to think that on
the surface level,
00:20:24.55\00:20:27.76
it was, "I, okay?
00:20:27.79\00:20:29.12
It was acceptable."
00:20:29.16\00:20:30.49
Literally, I'm
taking this piece of land
00:20:30.53\00:20:32.23
and providing homes for families
00:20:32.26\00:20:35.06
and Income for the city
and, you know, I mean, it's...
00:20:35.10\00:20:38.00
you know, I'm doing fair market,
00:20:38.03\00:20:39.37
I'm doing less
than fair market value.
00:20:39.40\00:20:40.97
I'm actually
doing society a favor.
00:20:41.00\00:20:43.04
I mean, yeah, I was
really driven not to think
00:20:43.07\00:20:48.61
that my drive came
from a very insecure place,
00:20:48.64\00:20:51.41
I didn't go there.
00:20:51.45\00:20:52.78
Right.
00:20:52.81\00:20:54.15
I learnt that afterwards
but yeah, I felt completely...
00:20:54.18\00:20:56.58
I hope I wasn't the
first one to tell you that?
00:20:56.62\00:20:58.92
You were.
00:20:58.95\00:21:00.29
I knew, you were gonna say
that and it's really crazy...
00:21:00.32\00:21:03.09
You just
wouldn't get away from me.
00:21:03.12\00:21:04.46
I wouldn't.
00:21:04.49\00:21:05.83
And what's really
crazy to me is when you,
00:21:05.86\00:21:09.70
when I see the enemy
just strategically drives us,
00:21:09.73\00:21:14.94
we are driven and
we're driven by our anxiety
00:21:14.97\00:21:18.11
and our fear and whatever
and it looks successful.
00:21:18.14\00:21:21.38
I mean, to me, I
can't even imagine
00:21:21.41\00:21:25.31
the respect that
you had in the community
00:21:25.35\00:21:27.18
and how successful it was
00:21:27.22\00:21:28.92
and how almost
you could taste it
00:21:28.95\00:21:30.99
but not quite.
00:21:31.02\00:21:32.35
Not quite. Not
quite, so what happens?
00:21:32.39\00:21:35.32
'Cause things start
to turn. Things turn.
00:21:35.36\00:21:38.66
Well, in that process
of getting into that point,
00:21:38.69\00:21:43.40
my son was born in
1999 and just quickly,
00:21:43.43\00:21:48.50
he was born and
diagnosed with Down Syndrome.
00:21:48.54\00:21:51.47
And yeah, that was, that was...
00:21:51.51\00:21:54.51
I can't even imagine.
00:21:54.54\00:21:55.88
No, yeah, it took a long
time and what was amazing
00:21:55.91\00:22:00.12
is our church stopped from
the Friday night live program
00:22:00.15\00:22:04.02
and they all prayed
00:22:04.05\00:22:05.39
when we shared
the news with them
00:22:05.42\00:22:06.76
and we're still at the hospital.
00:22:06.79\00:22:08.36
Cut that long story
short, my son was anointed
00:22:08.39\00:22:11.39
and he is
healed to normal today.
00:22:11.43\00:22:14.83
So I'm like, wow. Yeah.
00:22:14.86\00:22:17.87
You know, yeah,
miracles do happen.
00:22:17.90\00:22:20.07
Right.
00:22:20.10\00:22:21.44
So talk to somebody,
00:22:21.47\00:22:22.80
I'm sure there
was a good message
00:22:22.84\00:22:24.17
and something to learn from that
00:22:24.21\00:22:25.54
and maybe, I didn't
quite get there at that time...
00:22:25.57\00:22:27.84
Right. 'Cause life continued.
00:22:27.88\00:22:30.41
But it was
definitely a very real moment.
00:22:30.45\00:22:34.62
A very real moment.
00:22:34.65\00:22:36.69
When my son came out lifeless
and then he was anointed
00:22:36.72\00:22:40.16
and he had cried
for the first time
00:22:40.19\00:22:42.02
and that was like hours later
and it was like the cry of joy,
00:22:42.06\00:22:44.93
it was like the cry of life.
00:22:44.96\00:22:46.36
I take him, I pick him up
00:22:46.39\00:22:47.73
and carry him over
and give him to Dina
00:22:47.76\00:22:49.63
and it's like Dina
and Miles were glowing.
00:22:49.66\00:22:52.40
And Miles, hours old,
is able to lift up his hand
00:22:52.43\00:22:56.24
and started
stroking Dina on the face
00:22:56.27\00:22:58.57
and to me it was saying,
00:22:58.61\00:22:59.94
"The comforter is
with you, the Holy Spirit."
00:22:59.97\00:23:01.88
You know, Holy
Spirit is in this room.
00:23:01.91\00:23:04.35
And we had that peace,
00:23:04.38\00:23:05.71
that transient
little understanding
00:23:05.75\00:23:07.58
and I was like, wow,
00:23:07.62\00:23:09.45
and my mother was
there and Michelle was there,
00:23:09.48\00:23:11.49
of course, Dina mom and I
won't even forget that day.
00:23:11.52\00:23:14.79
It was, I walked away
thankful and undeserving.
00:23:14.82\00:23:18.39
Well, get this,
four years later,
00:23:18.43\00:23:20.63
life is good,
business is going strong,
00:23:20.66\00:23:22.66
I'm at the pinnacle, you
know, I'm in the position
00:23:22.70\00:23:25.07
where I can pick and
choose what I want to do,
00:23:25.10\00:23:26.70
done the hard
yards, victory for me.
00:23:26.74\00:23:29.14
Kennedy Rose is born, 2003
and she cries like a kitten,
00:23:29.17\00:23:35.48
you know, and that
felt, "Oh, so gorgeous"
00:23:35.51\00:23:37.75
not realizing that she
was born with a rare syndrome.
00:23:37.78\00:23:42.95
So they said to us that
she has Cri-du-chat syndrome
00:23:42.98\00:23:47.36
which means cry of
the cat, well, 5P minus.
00:23:47.39\00:23:50.33
And she's in the
severe range of desolation,
00:23:50.36\00:23:53.29
so you can expect her
00:23:53.33\00:23:54.66
to have a
maximum rate of mentality
00:23:54.70\00:23:56.67
of a three to four-year-child.
00:23:56.70\00:23:58.87
In her whole life?
Right. Her whole life, max out.
00:23:58.90\00:24:01.50
Autistic spectrum,
aggressive behavior,
00:24:01.54\00:24:03.54
she won't walk, she
won't talk, you know,
00:24:03.57\00:24:06.78
she'll be tube feed,
health and heart problems,
00:24:06.81\00:24:09.14
oh, and by the
way, spontaneous death.
00:24:09.18\00:24:12.85
And I'm...
00:24:12.88\00:24:14.22
And you're
standing there growing,
00:24:14.25\00:24:15.58
I can buy and sell most things,
00:24:15.62\00:24:17.59
I can literally
change everything
00:24:17.62\00:24:20.16
but I can't change this.
00:24:20.19\00:24:22.16
Can't change this.
00:24:22.19\00:24:23.53
So I walked out
of there thinking,
00:24:23.56\00:24:26.23
"Okay, anointing, yeah."
00:24:26.26\00:24:29.43
Right.
00:24:29.46\00:24:30.80
So had her anointed and nothing,
00:24:30.83\00:24:34.40
they get her
anointed again, nothing.
00:24:34.44\00:24:36.87
Anointed again, nothing.
00:24:36.91\00:24:38.67
By this time I'm
like, "All right, God,
00:24:38.71\00:24:42.04
are You in the lottery business?
00:24:42.08\00:24:44.11
"Because the
last time I checked,
00:24:44.15\00:24:45.55
you healed my son.
00:24:45.58\00:24:47.42
Now you're not
healing my daughter
00:24:47.45\00:24:48.78
and on top of that,
00:24:48.82\00:24:50.15
she's got a syndrome that is so,
00:24:50.19\00:24:52.52
it's just worst than Down's.
00:24:52.55\00:24:53.99
If you give me a choice,
00:24:54.02\00:24:55.42
I would choose
Down's over this one.
00:24:55.46\00:24:57.86
I mean, my
daughter can die anytime,
00:24:57.89\00:24:59.63
I mean, come on for real"
00:24:59.66\00:25:01.66
and I started getting angry,
00:25:01.70\00:25:03.03
my whole world
started falling apart.
00:25:03.06\00:25:05.03
At that point, we were going
over to the States anyway to,
00:25:05.07\00:25:08.77
I was gonna be
Assistant Director
00:25:08.80\00:25:11.27
at a summer camp,
Christian program,
00:25:11.31\00:25:12.67
in Virginia again.
00:25:12.71\00:25:14.04
I was very just
addicted to youth, family,
00:25:14.08\00:25:16.38
restoration camps and...
00:25:16.41\00:25:19.91
And now when you say addicted,
00:25:19.95\00:25:22.22
I know that you
loved what you did.
00:25:22.25\00:25:25.69
You believed in family,
00:25:25.72\00:25:27.06
you believed in
all that kind of stuff.
00:25:27.09\00:25:28.72
So this was not that I
did this just because I could
00:25:28.76\00:25:31.96
and it was that this
is what you believed in.
00:25:31.99\00:25:35.46
Oh, yeah, I mean,
any chance we could.
00:25:35.50\00:25:37.03
Dina and I and the family,
00:25:37.07\00:25:38.40
we were always at the time,
00:25:38.43\00:25:39.77
we would always
go back to the States
00:25:39.80\00:25:41.14
and give our part
back to youth ministries
00:25:41.17\00:25:43.24
and family ministries.
00:25:43.27\00:25:44.67
I believe in the
core of the family
00:25:44.71\00:25:46.47
to have their
happiness in Christ.
00:25:46.51\00:25:49.81
I just didn't realize
that mine was quite superficial
00:25:49.84\00:25:53.55
until we had this, yeah...
00:25:53.58\00:25:58.12
Crisis. Yeah, the crisis.
00:25:58.15\00:25:59.59
You know, everything
and what's incredible to me
00:25:59.62\00:26:05.23
is when you
said, "Is it a lottery?
00:26:05.26\00:26:07.23
You know, where are you God?"
00:26:07.26\00:26:08.90
That kind of anger.
00:26:08.93\00:26:10.27
When you're saying to
Him, "What's up with this?"
00:26:10.30\00:26:13.74
I was. You need to answer to me.
00:26:13.77\00:26:15.57
Yup, yup, which
is the first clearer.
00:26:15.60\00:26:19.24
I know, but we say it...
00:26:19.27\00:26:20.61
But at the time, I
mean, I had a hard time,
00:26:20.64\00:26:24.01
I mean, I went to the
States and we did that.
00:26:24.05\00:26:28.18
Here I'm thinking, I
didn't wanna go to America
00:26:28.22\00:26:31.49
to pursue medical
treatments for my daughter.
00:26:31.52\00:26:35.29
So what ended up is going
there for two month vacation
00:26:35.32\00:26:37.76
and doing the youth ministries.
00:26:37.79\00:26:40.80
I ended up in a
search of medical support
00:26:40.83\00:26:44.37
for my daughter
'cause geneticist said,
00:26:44.40\00:26:47.10
"New Zealand is not big
enough to support this syndrome,
00:26:47.14\00:26:49.84
we have eight documented
of which four are alive today,
00:26:49.87\00:26:53.58
ever at the time and
four have passed away."
00:26:53.61\00:26:57.48
And I went, if
it's supposed to be,
00:26:57.51\00:27:00.22
you know,
spontaneous death and sort of,
00:27:00.25\00:27:03.08
can happen but it's rare,
00:27:03.12\00:27:04.85
50 percent of
the cases had died,
00:27:04.89\00:27:08.69
knowing that's not
good enough for me,
00:27:08.72\00:27:10.13
I tried to get
private help, no private help.
00:27:10.16\00:27:12.89
Everything's...
00:27:12.93\00:27:14.26
It's socialized
medicine and stuff and probably,
00:27:14.30\00:27:16.06
it's just very busy.
00:27:16.10\00:27:17.73
And so my wife being American,
we went over there to...
00:27:17.77\00:27:21.14
We'll find a
specialist in the State.
00:27:21.17\00:27:22.97
In the pursuit
of happiness, yes.
00:27:23.00\00:27:24.54
Yeah, and we ended up
and when we went back,
00:27:24.57\00:27:28.28
we did the Virginia
thing and I thought,
00:27:28.31\00:27:29.64
"I can live in Virginia."
00:27:29.68\00:27:31.21
So Virginia didn't have
the base program and I said,
00:27:31.25\00:27:33.68
"Lord, I'll go
anywhere in America
00:27:33.72\00:27:35.72
expect La Porte, Indiana.
00:27:35.75\00:27:37.09
Please not Indiana, I'm sorry."
Well, guess where He puts me?
00:27:37.12\00:27:40.69
La Porte, Indiana. Absolutely.
00:27:40.72\00:27:42.06
And I'm like, "Okay, so
I got from beautiful hills
00:27:42.09\00:27:45.39
and ponds and lakes
and oceans to corn fields
00:27:45.43\00:27:47.86
and soybean fields."
00:27:47.90\00:27:50.03
Which was the
beginning of my journey
00:27:50.07\00:27:52.03
of being
completely and totally broken.
00:27:52.07\00:27:56.54
I would like to stop
there and just and take a break
00:27:56.57\00:27:59.74
and come back because
when you are at that place
00:27:59.77\00:28:04.11
and it's not broken
'cause I can't pay for this,
00:28:04.15\00:28:07.25
it's not broken 'cause
I don't have the means,
00:28:07.28\00:28:09.55
it's broken 'cause
I literally don't know
00:28:09.58\00:28:12.05
how to breathe next.
00:28:12.09\00:28:13.96
I don't know how to speak
into my wife who is looking,
00:28:13.99\00:28:19.29
I don't know how to
speaking to my family,
00:28:19.33\00:28:20.90
I don't know how to do
any of that kind of stuff.
00:28:20.93\00:28:22.73
So we're gonna come back
and find out what happens
00:28:22.76\00:28:24.73
because it
absolutely is amazing.
00:28:24.77\00:28:27.00
But if you are
struggling with wondering if,
00:28:27.04\00:28:30.54
"God, this is a lottery to you?"
00:28:30.57\00:28:32.47
What I learned
bout God is He says,
00:28:32.51\00:28:34.58
"I promise you, I
plan evil for no one,
00:28:34.61\00:28:37.51
this was not my fault,
this was not my issue."
00:28:37.55\00:28:40.75
And so we're gonna come back
00:28:40.78\00:28:42.12
and talk a little
bit more about that.
00:28:42.15\00:28:43.89
So stay with us, it's amazing,
it's an amazing journey.
00:28:43.92\00:28:48.09