The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Over the years
everything has changed
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especially who we are sexually
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and even the porn industry
and all that kind of stuff
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and we're gonna cover
that with our guests today.
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So welcome to
Celebrating Life in Recovery.
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I'm Cheri your host,
come join us in the cafe.
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It is gonna be an
eye opener but so cool.
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I am so...
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this program today is
gonna be intense for some
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but it is one of
my favorite things
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to talk about who we are,
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who we are in every
aspect of our lives.
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And I want to say
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the book that we're
doing all season long
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is Victory in Jesus.
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And the reason I chose
this book for this season
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is because some
of us don't realize
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that we are saved by
grace and grace alone.
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Everything that I
respond to the love of God,
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every time I want to change,
every time I want to do better,
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every time I want to be better,
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every time I
want to be all that.
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It's not because I'm
trying to earn God's affection.
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I'm trying to be good enough
because, man, I don't think
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I'll ever make good
enough in the eyes of God,
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but He is crazy about me.
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Do you know what I
mean, He's crazy about you.
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And so we're gonna talk
today about an experience
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that I had first
before I introduce our guests
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and I love these guys.
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But another book that we're
gonna talk about this season
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is God is Crazy about You.
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And the reason I wrote that
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is because when I
first got into recovery,
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every single
time I turned around,
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I saw different aspects
of God that was amazing.
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And at one point I get
called to go to Thailand
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to rescue kids from
the sex trade industry.
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And I'm thinking, you know what,
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I can't wait because
some of these kids are young,
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like as young as
two, I mean just tiny kids
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and so we raise
funds and we're gonna go
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and we're gonna sponsor them
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and get them into
safe houses and schools.
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And then I get kind of a
threat from the Thai mafia.
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I don't even know
how do they know me,
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but they threatened to gut me.
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I'm gonna gut you,
whip your intestines out
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and hang them in
the back of the club.
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And I thought "Oh,
this is gonna be good."
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Because we're getting people
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that nervous
about us coming over.
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I can't wait to
see what God does.
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Well, my husband
didn't take it the same way.
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He's like,
"They're gonna gut you?
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Wait a minute, you're not going
and you're not taking Jacky"
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which was my daughter.
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So, I said, you
know, I have to go
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because I think
it's gonna, you know,
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I just, I just have to go
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because some people
are so lost in their life,
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in their addiction,
they're sold off really young
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and they really have no idea
that there's a God in heaven
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that cannot only
change their life,
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but they have a plan for them.
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Literally, they will at
one point heal so significantly
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that they will delight
to be in their own skin
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and somebody's got to
tell him, I got to tell him.
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So and so Brad is trying
to talk me out of it, I said,
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you know, I love
you but I have to go
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and then someone says
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you're liable
for anybody you take,
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I'm taking these,
you know, kids with me
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and one girl had been
viciously raped as a kid
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and she's healing and she said,
you know, Cheri, I have to go.
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I think this is
part of my healing.
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So I had to get her mom
to sign a death release form.
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If she gets killed,
you can't sue me, you know.
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And so her mom is like
you want me to sign what,
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and it was clearly stated
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this is what
they've threatened us.
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And if she goes you have to
release a liability with us,
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so we get there
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and we are talking to a
number of kids you know.
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We one time I met
with 140 prostitutes,
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kids that are sold at
night in the industry.
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I went to the red light district
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and 70 percent were men
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that were buying
and selling these kids,
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30 percent were women.
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So they were men and women.
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It was just one of
the most intense thing
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and we did get all these threats
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and people were trying
to scare us in our face
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and all that kind of stuff.
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And at one point I go to this...
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It was probably
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where children are
bought and sold more
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and so a lot of
tourists don't go.
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In some of these countries,
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red light district people
go and just take pictures.
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It's like, it's so bizarre
to me to see tourist say,
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"Can I take a picture
in front of a prostitute
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or in front of this
building or whatever."
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But in this particular
area there was none of that
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because it was...
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These were small children
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and a lot of people don't want
to be seen in that environment.
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So we end up
getting there late at night.
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I'm realizing this is probably
that that we are so unsafe,
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we are so much in danger.
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I really put
everybody's life at risk
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and I start
praying, "God, I'm so sorry."
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And I was really
frightened not only for myself
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but for them at that moment,
and I don't know where...
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We were staying at this place
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called Fountain
of Life Ministries.
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I don't know where it's at.
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There's not street
lights in these small villages.
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I mean it was just like
it was, I was just afraid,
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and I start praying,
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and all the sudden
this woman comes out.
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She's 20 or so and
she comes out this girl
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and she just
starts going like this.
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I don't speak Thai.
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She's going like this
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and she's walking backwards
into this like alleyway
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and I'm thinking there's no way,
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they're gonna find us
cut up in there, right.
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And I'm thinking,
I'm not following her,
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everybody is
looking at me for direction,
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and I just felt
somehow this kind of pressure
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pushing us in one
direction and we followed her
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for a block and a
half, I mean into nothing.
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I mean it was so
ridiculous into this nothing.
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And as we turned the corner,
there was a sign that said,
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Fountain of Life Ministries.
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And I almost started crying.
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You know when
you're so relieved,
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it's like all this and
you're just so relieved,
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I almost started
crying and I turned around
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just to say thank you
so much and she was gone
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and I thought shut up, shut up.
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What if God is real?
What if He intervenes?
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What if He does care about us?
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And no matter where we are
in that journey in our life,
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how twisted things have gotten,
and when I talk about twisted,
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there was temples in this area
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that they would bring
11 year olds from Burma
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to sleep with people
that were dying of AIDS,
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and the theory was that
if you sleep with a virgin,
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you could be healed from AIDS.
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These kids were
riddled with AIDS
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by the time they
died at 15, 16 years old.
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So when I talk about darkness
and all that kind of stuff,
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it was so crazy,
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but the reason I wanted
to start with that story,
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for one, just the
grace of God that says,
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you know what, I am
right there with you.
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And if you give
me half a chance,
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whether you are
buying or selling,
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I will change your life,
and I will bring healing.
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But pornography and
all that kind of stuff
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from the time I first
started years ago to now,
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it's a different game.
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It's a different game.
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And so I want to introduce,
you know, Donald and Janelle.
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Thank you for
joining us on the program,
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and we're gonna, we're
gonna talk about your story
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and all that, but I want to say,
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that now years later
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people are hooking
up and they don't...
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They're sexually involved
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and some folks feel
like I can jump into porn
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and be famous and it's
just a way into this world
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or, you know, it's so prevalent
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that it's not anything
to actually be ashamed of.
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And Jeremiah
says, you know what?
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There are some of us that have
forgotten even how to blush.
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And so on that note,
I want to introduce you
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and don't jump right
into that but who are you,
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where did you come from?
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And, Donald, can
we start with you?
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Sure, sure, my name is
of course, Donald Owen.
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I'm raised in
Michigan, raised in a sort of
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floundering Christian
family Baptist here and there,
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it's kind of traveling around...
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Do you want me to
get into the whole...
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or we start with pornography,
looking at pornography.
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Yeah, because with you,
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I mean from the
time you were little
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that was just
part of your world.
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Yeah, about the
age of let's say, 13,
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14 my brother like to
take things from stores
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and he took about 11 magazines,
adult magazines and came back
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to our little
Chevy in the backyard.
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It was probably about
seven or eight of us young boys
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and we were, you know,
flipping open magazines
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and seeing some stuff
that was really degrading
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and very shameful, just amazing.
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But that's not what
you thought at the time.
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No, no.
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And even, even
what's really interesting
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because I've been
brought into elementary schools
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where people are
sharing on their,
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on their smartphones
images and things and laughing
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and even doing
kind of, you know,
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like they're going
to search the internet
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as far as cartoon characters
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and come up with
some pretty twisted stuff.
00:09:04.81\00:09:06.57
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:09:06.61\00:09:08.21
And it's a game initially.
00:09:08.24\00:09:10.15
And I also
remember two that at age,
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popular music
television came out
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and there was just,
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you could see the
racy kind of images
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and things that
really attracted.
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For me, young man,
it really attracted me
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and it really hooked me.
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You were hijacked. Oh, yeah.
00:09:25.99\00:09:27.33
Yeah, you know images
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that plant in the
back of your brain.
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They stay there and
you just want more and more
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and actually had a neighbor
that I was really addicted to.
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I mean, I was so on
like in lust with this woman,
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I just did everything
I wanted to be with her,
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and she's a married woman,
I was a kid, I didn't know.
00:09:41.24\00:09:45.21
I just, I was
addicted. Yeah, heavily.
00:09:45.25\00:09:47.88
Just everything I
thought of her constantly.
00:09:47.92\00:09:50.55
So what's really interesting
is because, you know,
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I'm talking
about another country
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and see the areas but
you're talking about a...
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Neighborhood A neighborhood.
00:09:58.63\00:10:00.00
Like a, yeah, white picket fence
00:10:00.03\00:10:01.73
kind of neighborhood
00:10:01.76\00:10:03.16
and it's just, it
spiraled from there
00:10:03.20\00:10:04.83
just kept going
further and further down
00:10:04.87\00:10:06.84
and got into a
sexual chat online.
00:10:06.87\00:10:10.14
When internet came out,
it wasn't like it is now
00:10:10.17\00:10:12.31
and will pop up and
everything but it was,
00:10:12.34\00:10:14.64
I was on three four hours
a night talking with people
00:10:14.68\00:10:16.68
and it just kind of
got into sexual chat with
00:10:16.71\00:10:19.18
I think were women,
I have no clue but...
00:10:19.21\00:10:21.88
And another, when
you talk about that
00:10:21.92\00:10:23.95
is that even from the time
00:10:23.99\00:10:27.06
that you started
experimenting with that
00:10:27.09\00:10:29.49
is that they really have
online sites or apps for people
00:10:29.52\00:10:34.03
just to go in, jump in, jump out
00:10:34.06\00:10:36.13
and almost your
trail is gone immediately.
00:10:36.16\00:10:39.57
You can find out
who you can hook up with
00:10:39.60\00:10:41.27
or who you can be with
within 50 miles of your phone.
00:10:41.30\00:10:44.34
Yeah.
00:10:44.37\00:10:45.71
And we're in our,
your mind get so distorted
00:10:45.74\00:10:47.24
what really is love and
you mistake it with lust,
00:10:47.28\00:10:50.05
and we have no clue anymore
what love really looks like
00:10:50.08\00:10:52.81
in an intimate relationship
it's really distorted,
00:10:52.85\00:10:55.68
for myself it was,
00:10:55.72\00:10:57.39
I'm still to this day
trying to figure out, you know,
00:10:57.42\00:11:00.59
what does an intimate
relationship look like.
00:11:00.62\00:11:03.09
Did anyone notice that all this
and you're online all the time,
00:11:03.12\00:11:06.59
you were withdrawing
00:11:06.63\00:11:07.96
because there
was a lot of things
00:11:08.00\00:11:09.33
that somebody around
you if they were tuned in,
00:11:09.36\00:11:13.44
they could have picked up on.
00:11:13.47\00:11:14.90
College no,
because it was kind of,
00:11:14.94\00:11:16.37
like our whole
period after school
00:11:16.40\00:11:18.41
we could go and
work on the computers
00:11:18.44\00:11:20.18
and I was there
for three four hours
00:11:20.21\00:11:21.54
and guy let me in and we
stayed there as buddies with him
00:11:21.58\00:11:23.75
but when I went to work,
00:11:23.78\00:11:25.55
I carried into
the workplace, yes.
00:11:25.58\00:11:27.78
They saw me, they
realize I was doing something
00:11:27.82\00:11:29.98
and like you said
trying to cover your tracks,
00:11:30.02\00:11:32.55
I was going on
vacation and so I decide,
00:11:32.59\00:11:34.92
I need to delete some things,
I didn't know I was doing
00:11:34.96\00:11:36.89
because of the shame and
fear for what they would think
00:11:36.93\00:11:39.43
and I deleted stuff
I weren't supposed to
00:11:39.46\00:11:41.96
and destroyed their computer.
00:11:42.00\00:11:43.70
I came back and
they said, "I'm sorry.
00:11:43.73\00:11:45.63
This just isn't
working. You're fired."
00:11:45.67\00:11:47.07
But my co-workers saying,
00:11:47.10\00:11:48.64
look, they know
what you're doing,
00:11:48.67\00:11:50.01
you need to quit.
00:11:50.04\00:11:51.37
I said, I will
quit and I kept trying,
00:11:51.41\00:11:54.04
I just could not and
it got further and further
00:11:54.08\00:11:56.28
and I was trying to
beg them to give me work
00:11:56.31\00:11:58.55
so I keep myself preoccupied
00:11:58.58\00:12:00.28
so they're
doing, you know, stuff,
00:12:00.32\00:12:02.38
so I just went
further and further.
00:12:02.42\00:12:04.52
So can you talk
about what it feels like
00:12:04.55\00:12:06.05
because I think
that when someone says,
00:12:06.09\00:12:08.46
"What do you mean addiction?
00:12:08.49\00:12:09.96
I mean why don't you
just not do it at work."
00:12:09.99\00:12:13.26
So you can talk about
that pool of addiction.
00:12:13.29\00:12:15.56
It's kind of
you're filling a void,
00:12:15.60\00:12:17.03
it's like a high almost.
00:12:17.07\00:12:19.03
I guess you
could call it a high.
00:12:19.07\00:12:20.40
Yeah.
00:12:20.44\00:12:21.77
That you're just trying
to get off, I don't know,
00:12:21.80\00:12:23.24
pun intended but yeah,
00:12:23.27\00:12:24.61
you literally you get off on it.
00:12:24.64\00:12:26.07
It's just
something that you real need
00:12:26.11\00:12:27.44
to go to other person like,
00:12:27.48\00:12:29.48
you know, sensing
the same thing I am,
00:12:29.51\00:12:30.98
you know, how,
what are they doing
00:12:31.01\00:12:32.81
and try to visualize in
your head what's going on.
00:12:32.85\00:12:35.48
You know, you can
see all kinds of images
00:12:35.52\00:12:36.99
racing through your mind
00:12:37.02\00:12:38.55
trying to think
what are they doing so...
00:12:38.59\00:12:39.99
So, so with you
being lost in that
00:12:40.02\00:12:45.29
because I know that eventually,
Janelle, you guys meet.
00:12:45.33\00:12:49.50
What's your background
00:12:49.53\00:12:51.13
and did you have
the same struggles
00:12:51.17\00:12:56.57
or the same interest as him?
00:12:56.60\00:12:59.21
Yeah, similar,
actually it's kind of weird
00:12:59.24\00:13:01.94
how that worked
out but I was about ten
00:13:01.98\00:13:04.21
when I first viewed pornography.
00:13:04.25\00:13:06.31
I found a video tape
00:13:06.35\00:13:07.75
and it was actually some
music videos of my father's
00:13:07.78\00:13:10.99
and at the end of it
there was this scene on there
00:13:11.02\00:13:14.12
and I think all my
siblings were in there with me.
00:13:14.16\00:13:16.12
My brother my
sister and were like,
00:13:16.16\00:13:18.06
"What was that?"
00:13:18.09\00:13:19.43
And then I found myself
00:13:19.46\00:13:20.80
watching it again over and over.
00:13:20.83\00:13:22.20
With nobody in there.
00:13:22.23\00:13:23.57
Yeah and, and so
that was ten years old
00:13:23.60\00:13:27.17
and so I mean kids
you know find stuff
00:13:27.20\00:13:30.01
and it can
trigger that, you know,
00:13:30.04\00:13:32.57
that just the desire
to want to see it again,
00:13:32.61\00:13:36.24
but for me actually
I think maybe I was 12
00:13:36.28\00:13:40.85
when that happened
because even before that,
00:13:40.88\00:13:43.28
I had been
exploring with masturbation
00:13:43.32\00:13:45.69
and that continued since age ten
00:13:45.72\00:13:47.72
till you know until
God brought me out of it.
00:13:47.76\00:13:50.76
And so that something...
00:13:50.79\00:13:52.13
We hate, you know,
and society at large,
00:13:52.16\00:13:55.20
they will let guys have
sexual addiction, but girls,
00:13:55.23\00:13:59.00
they don't really like
us to be anything but pure.
00:13:59.03\00:14:00.74
Right, you're supposed to
be perfect and prim and proper
00:14:00.77\00:14:02.64
and all this, you know,
00:14:02.67\00:14:04.01
and it's like
no, but yeah, it's...
00:14:04.04\00:14:05.37
But even saying it out loud
00:14:05.41\00:14:06.74
because I work constantly
with people that struggle
00:14:06.78\00:14:09.81
and women and pornography,
women in sexual bondage,
00:14:09.84\00:14:14.45
it's really tough
because even to say it out loud.
00:14:14.48\00:14:17.55
We don't want
to say it out loud.
00:14:17.59\00:14:18.99
We do want to be all that
and we want to have all of that
00:14:19.02\00:14:22.69
but you're saying is
finally, I'm done hiding.
00:14:22.72\00:14:25.63
I'm done being ashamed. Right
00:14:25.66\00:14:27.40
And we're gonna talk
about why you can do that
00:14:27.43\00:14:30.13
because I just so admire you.
00:14:30.17\00:14:32.03
But you're saying
from the time I was a kid,
00:14:32.07\00:14:34.97
I'm lost in this.
00:14:35.00\00:14:38.01
And did you,
did you have a sense
00:14:38.04\00:14:42.44
when you said, these
were my dad's videos,
00:14:42.48\00:14:44.31
did you have a sense of.
00:14:44.35\00:14:45.91
And I'm saying this not
to make anyone feel guilty,
00:14:45.95\00:14:48.75
but when we're raised in
the sexualized environment,
00:14:48.78\00:14:52.35
kids will get
twisted and they don't know
00:14:52.39\00:14:54.66
why they'll say
no, I wasn't touched.
00:14:54.69\00:14:56.73
I wasn't molested.
00:14:56.76\00:14:58.13
But the people around
us were very sexualized.
00:14:58.16\00:15:01.33
Yeah, that was
definitely the case.
00:15:01.36\00:15:02.80
So...
00:15:02.83\00:15:04.17
Talking about you being pretty
00:15:04.20\00:15:05.53
or you know I like the
way your body is growing
00:15:05.57\00:15:08.17
and all that kind of stuff and,
00:15:08.20\00:15:10.97
you know, something
was said that wasn't right
00:15:11.01\00:15:13.84
but I don't know what it is.
00:15:13.88\00:15:15.28
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:15.31\00:15:16.64
And I think for me it was
just seeing those images too
00:15:16.68\00:15:21.58
and you know
images stick in our minds
00:15:21.62\00:15:24.32
and it's really
hard to get those out,
00:15:24.35\00:15:27.16
only by God can we
erase those things,
00:15:27.19\00:15:29.36
ask Him to take it away
and still there are scars there
00:15:29.39\00:15:31.96
and there's still
things that we can't get out
00:15:31.99\00:15:34.43
but, you know, I
really don't think
00:15:34.46\00:15:37.23
my parents even realized it,
00:15:37.27\00:15:39.27
you know it was there
if they had left it for us
00:15:39.30\00:15:42.17
to find, you know,
00:15:42.20\00:15:43.71
it was just
something that they said,
00:15:43.74\00:15:45.21
and I think they recorded
over something as VHS days.
00:15:45.24\00:15:48.94
And so they had
recorded over some stuff
00:15:48.98\00:15:51.01
and then there
was this at the end
00:15:51.05\00:15:52.68
and it's like, whoa.
00:15:52.71\00:15:54.85
But I think
00:15:54.88\00:15:56.22
my mom was probably
totally oblivious to it
00:15:56.25\00:15:58.39
but my dad, you know,
00:15:58.42\00:16:00.02
I think he might have
known at some point...
00:16:00.06\00:16:03.26
Did he ever talk to you? No.
00:16:03.29\00:16:05.33
Not about that,
00:16:05.36\00:16:06.70
and there were
some issues with them.
00:16:06.73\00:16:09.23
And, you know, I've talked
to others before about this
00:16:09.26\00:16:11.70
and so it's not
like it's the first time,
00:16:11.73\00:16:13.97
but my dad had some
issues with, you know,
00:16:14.00\00:16:16.91
going cheating on my mom
and this and that and stuff,
00:16:16.94\00:16:19.91
you know, a lot
of different times
00:16:19.94\00:16:21.44
that that happened.
00:16:21.48\00:16:22.81
And so there was that
00:16:22.84\00:16:25.05
and so that was kind of
you know another sore spot
00:16:25.08\00:16:27.72
and you know as
far as my parents,
00:16:27.75\00:16:29.72
and so I was hearing
these things, you know,
00:16:29.75\00:16:32.05
when they would have
arguments or whatever
00:16:32.09\00:16:33.96
and talking about,
you know, you did this
00:16:33.99\00:16:35.66
and I'm hearing, you know,
00:16:35.69\00:16:37.89
different people
he had been with,
00:16:37.93\00:16:39.26
even people
that I knew and stuff
00:16:39.29\00:16:41.56
and so it was kind of...
00:16:41.60\00:16:43.53
So even with your parents
you're hearing sexualize stuff
00:16:43.57\00:16:47.14
or sexual stuff but not
them as a couple separately.
00:16:47.17\00:16:52.41
Dad's cheating on mom...
00:16:52.44\00:16:53.91
Oh, well, no,
not never together.
00:16:53.94\00:16:56.78
I would hear them have arguments
00:16:56.81\00:16:58.95
and things like that
00:16:58.98\00:17:01.35
and then I would find out
later from different sources
00:17:01.38\00:17:03.85
that, you know, hey,
00:17:03.89\00:17:05.22
I heard this you know
about your dad or whatever,
00:17:05.25\00:17:08.16
and so it was
kind of second hand,
00:17:08.19\00:17:09.82
but I kept hearing it.
00:17:09.86\00:17:11.19
And so it was like, you know,
sometimes you have to take it
00:17:11.23\00:17:13.60
with a grain of salt
what you hear and you don't,
00:17:13.63\00:17:15.80
you know, not
everything's always true
00:17:15.83\00:17:17.17
but when it's coming
from different sources,
00:17:17.20\00:17:19.50
it kind of made
me wonder, you know,
00:17:19.53\00:17:21.47
and so, and honestly
00:17:21.50\00:17:23.47
I've not talked to my
dad about this before,
00:17:23.51\00:17:27.71
but it's really been tough.
00:17:27.74\00:17:30.55
You never talked to him yet?
00:17:30.58\00:17:33.75
You know that is gonna be
00:17:33.78\00:17:35.12
a really incredible conversation
00:17:35.15\00:17:38.49
because sometimes
we don't want to talk
00:17:38.52\00:17:39.99
and we're fearful of talking.
00:17:40.02\00:17:41.49
Yeah.
00:17:41.52\00:17:42.86
But even now you're saying
00:17:42.89\00:17:44.23
I don't know
how I would do that.
00:17:44.26\00:17:45.86
What makes you
tear up about that?
00:17:45.89\00:17:47.56
What are you thinking?
00:17:47.60\00:17:49.43
Just,
00:17:49.46\00:17:52.80
just a lack of I
guess respect for family.
00:17:52.83\00:17:57.64
What it would do to us,
00:17:57.67\00:17:59.54
how it would shape our
futures and still lot of hurt,
00:17:59.57\00:18:06.51
and I think in some ways I
was afraid to confront him with
00:18:06.55\00:18:09.92
because I didn't
know how he'd react.
00:18:09.95\00:18:12.45
Would you still love
me? Would we still be okay?
00:18:12.49\00:18:16.02
Yeah.
00:18:16.06\00:18:17.79
Scary stuff. Yeah.
00:18:17.83\00:18:21.06
Thank you for sharing that
because what's really crazy
00:18:21.10\00:18:23.40
about early addiction
especially, sexual addiction
00:18:23.43\00:18:26.30
is we use our addiction
to help us survive or cope.
00:18:26.33\00:18:32.97
It's a stress thing.
00:18:33.01\00:18:34.34
Some people go in and just eat,
00:18:34.38\00:18:36.14
some people start workaholics
00:18:36.18\00:18:39.31
or they're academically
they push into that,
00:18:39.35\00:18:41.98
but when we literally
start using our sexuality
00:18:42.02\00:18:44.99
to help us cope, it is, we
get hijacked on every level.
00:18:45.02\00:18:50.13
And what you're saying
is that whenever I believe
00:18:50.16\00:18:54.23
what you said to
me, if this is right.
00:18:54.26\00:18:55.60
Whenever you felt stressed,
00:18:55.63\00:18:56.97
whenever you
felt out of control,
00:18:57.00\00:18:58.37
whenever things
were flowing apart,
00:18:58.40\00:19:00.60
you could go to
this place and be okay.
00:19:00.64\00:19:03.41
Yeah.
00:19:03.44\00:19:04.77
And I think I did look at it
00:19:04.81\00:19:06.14
like you said
it's a stress reliever.
00:19:06.17\00:19:07.51
You know the masturbation
stuff and it was just like
00:19:07.54\00:19:09.98
I didn't really seen
anything wrong with it.
00:19:10.01\00:19:12.01
It's just like, okay, well,
00:19:12.05\00:19:13.82
if it's gonna
makes me feel better,
00:19:13.85\00:19:15.18
sort of stress reliever.
00:19:15.22\00:19:16.79
And I think
it's so important too
00:19:16.82\00:19:18.95
to realize how much that
is really now it's encouraged
00:19:18.99\00:19:24.99
to kids to do this stuff,
00:19:25.03\00:19:26.39
you know, like sex-ed
classes and stuff like that
00:19:26.43\00:19:29.03
encourage kids to masturbate
because it prevents disease
00:19:29.06\00:19:32.67
and all these different things
you should love yourself...
00:19:32.70\00:19:35.60
Yeah, love your
body, love yourself
00:19:35.64\00:19:37.31
and it's like that's not, I
mean you should love yourself
00:19:37.34\00:19:40.04
but through God and
not because you're...
00:19:40.08\00:19:43.18
I've seen the term self
abuse and that's what it is,
00:19:43.21\00:19:46.08
you're abusing your body so...
00:19:46.11\00:19:49.22
So you end up
getting into a place
00:19:49.25\00:19:53.56
to where that
you're lost in the same way
00:19:53.59\00:19:58.23
almost as him just different.
00:19:58.26\00:20:00.33
You can go in your head,
00:20:00.36\00:20:02.43
I think have you ever
explored the difference
00:20:02.46\00:20:05.27
between sexual
addiction with women
00:20:05.30\00:20:08.14
and sexual addiction with men,
00:20:08.17\00:20:09.60
have you guys looked at that...
00:20:09.64\00:20:11.31
If...
00:20:11.34\00:20:12.67
just very minimal if
anything, not much so, yeah.
00:20:12.71\00:20:15.21
It used to be a huge
cavern, you get the women,
00:20:15.24\00:20:19.21
for one we are more into
00:20:19.25\00:20:22.62
kind of that intimate connection
00:20:22.65\00:20:24.05
and our fantasies are
really kind of different
00:20:24.09\00:20:27.26
and men it's the
image they look at,
00:20:27.29\00:20:30.33
they feel that kind of
stuff it's very visual.
00:20:30.36\00:20:33.50
Now, the divide is
not so much there anymore,
00:20:33.53\00:20:37.20
so it really is disappearing.
00:20:37.23\00:20:39.00
That's kind of
reversing the roles now,
00:20:39.03\00:20:40.57
you see that
women are becoming more
00:20:40.60\00:20:42.40
in the kind of man's role
00:20:42.44\00:20:43.77
and the man's
becoming more in women's role,
00:20:43.81\00:20:45.14
it's kind of
reversing, that's happening.
00:20:45.17\00:20:47.44
So that's why you
see all those transgender
00:20:47.48\00:20:49.48
and decisions, you know,
00:20:49.51\00:20:50.85
they're not happy
with my sex who I am
00:20:50.88\00:20:53.08
and sex is really confusing
and somebody had told me,
00:20:53.11\00:20:55.75
they mentioned that
now we're gonna start doing
00:20:55.78\00:20:57.55
a burst of his memory
00:20:57.59\00:20:58.92
when you don't
have male or female
00:20:58.95\00:21:00.29
when you're born so
you can choose later
00:21:00.32\00:21:01.66
what you want to be.
00:21:01.69\00:21:03.02
There's total confusion
00:21:03.06\00:21:04.39
and total like
inside identity crisis.
00:21:04.43\00:21:06.80
Really is, you know,
we don't know who we are
00:21:06.83\00:21:09.26
and why we're here
00:21:09.30\00:21:10.63
and we search for
something to fill a hole,
00:21:10.67\00:21:12.53
fill a gap that, you
know, feel better at heart.
00:21:12.57\00:21:15.24
So you guys end
up in high school,
00:21:15.27\00:21:17.47
in college and then I love
the fact then, then you meet.
00:21:17.51\00:21:22.04
And to me I just
think sometimes, you know,
00:21:22.08\00:21:24.75
we forget that we
walk into a relationship
00:21:24.78\00:21:26.98
and we bring in
all of this stuff
00:21:27.02\00:21:29.68
into the relationship.
00:21:29.72\00:21:31.22
So when you met, did
you meet in college at work?
00:21:31.25\00:21:35.59
You know, we met over at were
she worked at a place called
00:21:35.62\00:21:38.09
Bank-One now
placed in lower Kentucky.
00:21:38.13\00:21:40.70
I went down over
with a group of guys
00:21:40.73\00:21:42.80
to inventory her bank Y2K...
00:21:42.83\00:21:46.67
Oh, that's crazy, a crazy time.
00:21:46.70\00:21:48.67
And we actually were
going to banks was interesting
00:21:48.70\00:21:50.51
as the guys who were younger
00:21:50.54\00:21:51.87
and they said there's
no good looking women,
00:21:51.91\00:21:53.84
you know, in any of these
banks and I ran into her office
00:21:53.88\00:21:56.11
and I saw her and
went, I said, okay,
00:21:56.14\00:21:59.31
so I ran back to the guys.
00:21:59.35\00:22:01.48
They all came running
down are like puppy dogs
00:22:01.52\00:22:04.52
tongues practically hanging out.
00:22:04.55\00:22:06.42
A manager actually told me said,
00:22:06.45\00:22:07.79
"No, I'm gonna
take the other room,
00:22:07.82\00:22:09.16
you take the room
across, I'm taking this room.
00:22:09.19\00:22:10.73
So it kind of hit from
there and she invited us to club
00:22:10.76\00:22:13.16
and so went clubbing and yeah...
00:22:13.19\00:22:15.96
So you guys
liked each other. No?
00:22:16.00\00:22:21.50
No, you're saying no.
00:22:21.54\00:22:23.61
Oh, yeah, he know this so,
00:22:23.64\00:22:25.91
well, when we first met,
00:22:25.94\00:22:31.11
I was not looking
for relationship just,
00:22:31.15\00:22:34.42
you know, just having
fun and I was in college
00:22:34.45\00:22:37.49
and so I thought
oh, there's some guys,
00:22:37.52\00:22:39.82
you know, we can
go to the club with
00:22:39.85\00:22:41.42
and so I called
my friend, you know,
00:22:41.46\00:22:43.12
I told there's these four
guys I think it was four in town
00:22:43.16\00:22:46.80
and so, you know,
think it would be fun
00:22:46.83\00:22:50.03
if we just went to the club
and just hang out with them,
00:22:50.07\00:22:51.97
get to know them,
and so we went out
00:22:52.00\00:22:55.14
and I think that was
Phoenix Hill or something
00:22:55.17\00:22:57.97
at that time but anyway,
we stayed out the whole night,
00:22:58.01\00:23:01.24
I had to give a
speech the next day
00:23:01.28\00:23:03.28
and we stayed
out I mean all night
00:23:03.31\00:23:04.81
like till four in the morning.
00:23:04.85\00:23:06.18
I had like 45
minutes of sleep that night.
00:23:06.21\00:23:08.92
I had to give a
speech the next day...
00:23:08.95\00:23:10.59
In the bank.
00:23:10.62\00:23:12.05
No, at the
college that was going to
00:23:12.09\00:23:13.59
how to give a
speech the next day
00:23:13.62\00:23:15.09
and it was the worst
speech I've ever given.
00:23:15.12\00:23:17.23
I mean I almost fell asleep
in the middle of the speech
00:23:17.26\00:23:19.39
in front of everybody,
it was so embarrassing,
00:23:19.43\00:23:22.56
but anyway so, so we...
00:23:22.60\00:23:24.93
I think he was in
town for a few days.
00:23:24.97\00:23:26.43
So we went out
again and we just,
00:23:26.47\00:23:29.77
there was some
chemistry there but I think,
00:23:29.80\00:23:31.91
I thought that he
was younger than me
00:23:31.94\00:23:34.11
and I didn't want
to date a younger guy
00:23:34.14\00:23:36.31
and he's actually older
00:23:36.34\00:23:39.08
and so at first I wasn't like
immediately attracted to him.
00:23:39.11\00:23:43.49
But he grew on me a lot
00:23:43.52\00:23:44.85
because of his
personality and so...
00:23:44.89\00:23:46.96
He's pretty funny.
Yeah, he is very funny.
00:23:46.99\00:23:50.03
But I think at first
too I was kind of confused
00:23:50.06\00:23:54.93
if he liked me or my friend,
00:23:54.96\00:23:56.63
and so I was kind
of like, you know,
00:23:56.67\00:23:58.13
at that, yeah, and so
00:23:58.17\00:24:00.74
I was kind of getting a
different vibes from him
00:24:00.77\00:24:02.90
like, I wasn't sure
if he liked me or her
00:24:02.94\00:24:04.91
and so we just kept in touch
and eventually we ended up,
00:24:04.94\00:24:11.28
he moved down to Indiana
where I was living at the time.
00:24:11.31\00:24:14.25
And I think we've known
each other just a few months
00:24:14.28\00:24:16.58
when he moved down here
00:24:16.62\00:24:17.95
and so we lived
together for ten years
00:24:17.99\00:24:20.42
before we got married.
00:24:20.46\00:24:21.79
And it was that pretty
quickly after you moved down
00:24:21.82\00:24:24.33
that you guys
decided to move in together?
00:24:24.36\00:24:27.06
Five or six months.
00:24:27.10\00:24:28.43
Yeah, five or six, I get tired
of the extensive phone bills,
00:24:28.46\00:24:30.63
I'm like this got to stop.
00:24:30.67\00:24:32.00
We talked almost every
night on the phone and...
00:24:32.03\00:24:34.10
My parents brought me
the other house to, you know,
00:24:34.14\00:24:35.84
of course so, I was
probably 22 or 23 at the time.
00:24:35.87\00:24:38.87
Yeah, so I decide
to move in with her.
00:24:38.91\00:24:42.01
I almost actually
lost my job because of her
00:24:42.04\00:24:44.25
because she was
working for a bank
00:24:44.28\00:24:45.91
we are not
supposed to date clients
00:24:45.95\00:24:47.78
and my manager is
like that is a big no, no,
00:24:47.82\00:24:49.82
but she was actually a temp.
00:24:49.85\00:24:51.45
So that's kind of...
00:24:51.49\00:24:52.92
Little hope. Yeah.
00:24:52.95\00:24:54.86
So, I'm gonna go
ahead and take a break
00:24:54.89\00:24:56.62
because I know
that this next part
00:24:56.66\00:24:58.53
as I don't want
to kind of interrupt
00:24:58.56\00:25:01.53
once you guys
start talking about
00:25:01.56\00:25:02.90
your journey together as
a couple, your addictions,
00:25:02.93\00:25:05.73
what kind of turn
that took for you.
00:25:05.77\00:25:08.87
And my favorite part is
how did you get out of it.
00:25:08.90\00:25:12.34
So we're gonna be right
back if you are interested,
00:25:12.37\00:25:17.51
and it's just an
incredible miracle.
00:25:17.55\00:25:19.65
Does God...
00:25:19.68\00:25:21.02
Is God able to
change our very desires?
00:25:21.05\00:25:22.78
It is so amazing.
00:25:22.82\00:25:24.15
Our very desires
He actually says,
00:25:24.19\00:25:25.85
I can change and all the stuff
00:25:25.89\00:25:28.32
that you put in your
head that has twisted you,
00:25:28.36\00:25:30.83
He can untwist it if
you allow Him, it's amazing.
00:25:30.86\00:25:34.50
We'll be right back.
00:25:34.53\00:25:35.86