The following program
discusses sensitive issues
00:00:01.06\00:00:03.34
related to addictive behavior.
00:00:03.37\00:00:05.09
Parents are
cautioned that some material
00:00:05.12\00:00:06.84
may be too candid
for younger children.
00:00:06.87\00:00:09.41
Welcome.
00:00:17.53\00:00:18.59
You know this is fun for
me because a lot of time like
00:00:18.62\00:00:21.79
I bring a lot of
friends and people that I know
00:00:21.82\00:00:24.02
and people that
I've met in recovery
00:00:24.05\00:00:25.94
and on the journey of traveling.
00:00:25.97\00:00:29.00
But today I get
to bring somebody
00:00:29.03\00:00:30.65
I worked with which is great.
00:00:30.68\00:00:32.74
And I want to introduce
you to the Fran Mckain.
00:00:32.77\00:00:35.02
Fran, I want to
just say how fun is it,
00:00:35.05\00:00:37.53
you are on the program.
00:00:37.56\00:00:38.88
It's awesome to be
here. It's awesome.
00:00:38.91\00:00:40.23
And you have been
working for True Step Ministries
00:00:40.26\00:00:44.86
or our ministry for how long?
00:00:44.89\00:00:46.29
Almost a year. Almost a year.
00:00:46.32\00:00:48.30
And I just have to--
when you came on board
00:00:48.33\00:00:53.64
I had been running
at with different folks
00:00:53.67\00:00:55.71
often on most of the
time by myself or since 1994.
00:00:55.74\00:01:01.05
And it kind of reflected,
kind of look like that.
00:01:01.08\00:01:05.67
And I was surprised on
the first couple of projects
00:01:05.70\00:01:08.86
that we had to work together on
00:01:08.89\00:01:11.48
it was amazing to watch you,
00:01:11.51\00:01:14.52
take it, put timelines to
get how we're gonna do it,
00:01:14.55\00:01:18.23
when do we needed by,
what kind of artist do we need
00:01:18.26\00:01:20.83
in order to get
the projects done
00:01:20.86\00:01:23.60
and it was just delightful.
00:01:23.63\00:01:25.76
So I want to say
thank you for that.
00:01:25.79\00:01:28.44
I want to brag on,
00:01:28.47\00:01:31.16
our new recovery
version of Steps to Christ.
00:01:31.19\00:01:35.09
You had a lot to do with that.
00:01:35.12\00:01:38.14
I want to-- I
had a dream years ago
00:01:38.17\00:01:41.19
about taking Steps to Christ
00:01:41.22\00:01:43.46
putting it into
recovery language
00:01:43.49\00:01:45.31
we did the first season of
Celebrating Life in Recovery
00:01:45.34\00:01:49.71
with the book Steps to Christ
00:01:49.74\00:01:50.96
and I really wanted to
kind of change the language
00:01:50.99\00:01:54.50
and so we started to do
that with the various folks,
00:01:54.53\00:01:58.18
hired someone to do it,
had some addicts come in
00:01:58.21\00:02:01.18
and addicts are fun to work with
00:02:01.21\00:02:02.66
because addicts will
come in and say no, no,
00:02:02.69\00:02:05.06
I could do that,
just give me that
00:02:05.09\00:02:06.74
and they'll change
two or three sentences
00:02:06.77\00:02:08.16
and forget about
the rest of the chapter.
00:02:08.19\00:02:10.38
But Fran came in
and literally took
00:02:10.41\00:02:12.90
what we had done
through the years
00:02:12.93\00:02:15.34
and can you explain the process
of what you did with that?
00:02:15.37\00:02:18.39
Sure, yeah, it was
editing, heavy editing.
00:02:18.42\00:02:22.43
Probably, I think we went three
rounds of editing on that book
00:02:22.46\00:02:26.38
and we also needed to integrate
the twelve-steps into it
00:02:26.41\00:02:30.96
so that we could use
that and make it really fit
00:02:30.99\00:02:33.23
with our Celebrating
Life in Recovery program.
00:02:33.26\00:02:35.95
So making sure that it matches
00:02:35.98\00:02:37.65
the key messages of
the celebrating life
00:02:37.68\00:02:40.73
as well as twelve-steps
and all the editing.
00:02:40.76\00:02:43.97
For folks who don't-- are
little more flaky than that
00:02:44.00\00:02:50.54
I just want to just
interpret what you just said.
00:02:50.57\00:02:54.29
But you know, you
took the twelve-steps
00:02:54.32\00:02:56.61
and literally
put it in the book.
00:02:56.64\00:02:59.20
And to me when you
did that I was just like
00:02:59.23\00:03:02.17
I read it the first time
and I thought it was genius.
00:03:02.20\00:03:05.02
You know,
because I really believe
00:03:05.05\00:03:07.09
when I first saw Steps to Christ
00:03:07.12\00:03:08.53
when I first went
to it as an addict
00:03:08.56\00:03:10.20
thought it was
great twelve-step program.
00:03:10.23\00:03:12.43
It had everything
that you would need
00:03:12.46\00:03:14.22
in order to get a
foundation underneath you.
00:03:14.25\00:03:16.63
And so you didn't
have-- I don't have to guess
00:03:16.66\00:03:19.22
because what you
did as it showed us
00:03:19.25\00:03:21.07
what that look
like in every chapter.
00:03:21.10\00:03:23.17
Yeah, I think your intuition
about that was exactly right.
00:03:23.20\00:03:26.20
I mean, the book
is about recovery.
00:03:26.23\00:03:28.39
It's about how God works
in our hearts to change us
00:03:28.42\00:03:31.52
and but in twelve-steps
00:03:31.55\00:03:33.39
and really wasn't very
difficult because it fits.
00:03:33.42\00:03:35.61
It was awesome.
00:03:35.64\00:03:36.79
And it was a book
that you loved anyway.
00:03:36.82\00:03:38.51
I loved that book.
00:03:38.54\00:03:39.76
I think-- that one
00:03:39.79\00:03:41.15
and maybe Desire of
Ages are two of my favorites.
00:03:41.18\00:03:45.11
I may have you to work
on Desire of Ages next.
00:03:45.14\00:03:47.88
It's a little vigor,
Desire of Ages in Recovery.
00:03:47.91\00:03:51.41
That would be awesome.
00:03:51.44\00:03:53.12
But you know what's really
fun, so then we want to had
00:03:53.15\00:03:55.65
how to do the design as
far as the cover design,
00:03:55.68\00:03:59.46
Bob McKain who also has
joined us for the ministry
00:03:59.49\00:04:02.84
and has really
organize us like crazy
00:04:02.87\00:04:06.35
he's been on earlier show.
00:04:06.38\00:04:09.16
He's our executive
director of operations
00:04:09.19\00:04:11.14
and he's just amazing.
00:04:11.17\00:04:12.20
He's also a photographer.
00:04:12.23\00:04:14.18
So I had that in mind
what the cover would look like.
00:04:14.21\00:04:18.38
I tried to do the
cover on my own in Australia
00:04:18.41\00:04:21.62
with a-- a woman in Australia
00:04:21.65\00:04:24.68
but we ended up
doing it with you guys.
00:04:24.71\00:04:26.64
And I just got to say
the cover was beautiful,
00:04:26.67\00:04:29.32
the inside is beautiful
and it's off the press.
00:04:29.35\00:04:33.33
So I want to say
thank you for that.
00:04:33.36\00:04:35.23
And then another one just before
00:04:35.26\00:04:36.48
we get into
finding out who you are,
00:04:36.51\00:04:38.08
because, you know,
this is all fun for me
00:04:38.11\00:04:40.47
because we now have something
that we can put out there
00:04:40.50\00:04:43.81
that is really helpful
like they use Steps to Christ
00:04:43.84\00:04:46.40
in this women's
jail not long ago
00:04:46.43\00:04:48.33
they went
through the whole thing
00:04:48.36\00:04:49.39
because you put questions
on the end of every chapter
00:04:49.42\00:04:51.91
so that we could
use it as a study guide
00:04:51.94\00:04:53.64
or quarterly or whatever.
00:04:53.67\00:04:55.53
And so used it
in a women's prison
00:04:55.56\00:04:58.12
and yeah, so the
women went through it
00:04:58.15\00:04:59.88
and they got baptized
and they had all the pictures
00:04:59.91\00:05:01.89
and I just wanted to cry
00:05:01.92\00:05:03.21
because it exactly
what we wanted it to do.
00:05:03.24\00:05:06.05
I love that.
Yeah, that was awesome.
00:05:06.08\00:05:08.31
The next one,
00:05:08.34\00:05:09.82
we needed the children
version of Steps to Christ.
00:05:09.85\00:05:12.24
So I prayed, God said,
do the children's version
00:05:12.27\00:05:16.10
and I said to
you we got to do it.
00:05:16.13\00:05:18.45
And you put it
together within a week I think.
00:05:18.48\00:05:22.22
The plan. The plan.
00:05:22.25\00:05:23.61
I think it took us three
months to put it together,
00:05:23.64\00:05:26.90
photography, editing, writing.
00:05:26.93\00:05:29.56
Writing Steps to Christ
for children is a challenge.
00:05:29.59\00:05:32.51
Writing Steps to
Christ for children
00:05:32.54\00:05:34.29
for five to twelve year olds
00:05:34.32\00:05:35.90
and we called it Skips to Jesus.
00:05:35.93\00:05:38.66
Because it is
like Steps to Christ
00:05:38.69\00:05:41.12
but for children
so it talks about
00:05:41.15\00:05:42.70
bullying and blame
and lying and divorce
00:05:42.73\00:05:46.10
and now all that kind of stuff
00:05:46.13\00:05:47.48
that we don't
really talk to about,
00:05:47.51\00:05:49.68
what does it mean?
00:05:49.71\00:05:51.77
How do you teach a child
what the Commandments mean?
00:05:51.80\00:05:55.00
How do you teach a child
00:05:55.03\00:05:56.13
that the love of
God is just so huge?
00:05:56.16\00:05:59.13
That He is not
checking of our behaviors
00:05:59.16\00:06:01.51
literally trying to
love us into a place
00:06:01.54\00:06:03.89
for we love each other
00:06:03.92\00:06:05.27
and our behaviors
with each other are better.
00:06:05.30\00:06:07.74
You know, and so-- I
just want to say again
00:06:07.77\00:06:11.65
you know, sitting with you
00:06:11.68\00:06:13.54
and kind of
flushing out this project
00:06:13.57\00:06:16.03
and then having you
put the ideas together
00:06:16.06\00:06:18.31
and calling me back
over and it was perfect.
00:06:18.34\00:06:22.30
And I just got to
say it was just perfect,
00:06:22.33\00:06:24.17
it was so cool and
again we're still working
00:06:24.20\00:06:27.54
on an additional
project with Skips to Jesus.
00:06:27.57\00:06:30.33
We wanted to do a
whole VBS Program.
00:06:30.36\00:06:33.69
Brenda Walsh is
doing a children's network
00:06:33.72\00:06:36.39
and I even talked with her about
00:06:36.42\00:06:37.92
what about a
children show on recovery,
00:06:37.95\00:06:40.16
just like
Celebrating Life in Recovery
00:06:40.19\00:06:41.97
but for kids and
based on some of the stuff.
00:06:42.00\00:06:45.17
That would be really
amazing. Isn't it fun?
00:06:45.20\00:06:47.67
But I got to say, Fran,
00:06:47.70\00:06:49.79
I don't think I would have ever
00:06:49.82\00:06:51.69
had the strength over the--
00:06:51.72\00:06:57.74
I don't think I
ever could have stood up
00:06:57.77\00:07:00.03
with these incredible ideas,
00:07:00.06\00:07:01.91
with these incredible
vision that even God gives.
00:07:01.94\00:07:04.37
Because I knew
that I couldn't do it.
00:07:04.40\00:07:06.74
Now that God is
putting people around us
00:07:06.77\00:07:08.56
so in the team of the ministry,
00:07:08.59\00:07:10.41
that actually have those skills
00:07:10.44\00:07:12.13
that we can have these
visions and have them actually,
00:07:12.16\00:07:18.08
you know, work and be
good and change people's life.
00:07:18.11\00:07:22.26
So I want to just
say thank you for that
00:07:22.29\00:07:24.55
and you are such an
incredible person to work with.
00:07:24.58\00:07:26.89
It's been.
00:07:26.92\00:07:27.95
For me it feels like a
call to be where I'm at.
00:07:27.98\00:07:30.27
It feels like
everything I learned
00:07:30.30\00:07:32.22
throughout my life
comes together in these books.
00:07:32.25\00:07:34.48
It's just a joy. That's so fun.
00:07:34.51\00:07:38.42
And you know, I brought you on
00:07:38.45\00:07:42.01
not to so much
brag on what you've done
00:07:42.04\00:07:43.76
even though I could brag
on what you've done forever
00:07:43.79\00:07:45.72
because I'm so
delighted to work with you.
00:07:45.75\00:07:48.34
But your journey to me
is so different than mine.
00:07:48.37\00:07:52.05
You know, I'm coming
from drugs, alcohols,
00:07:52.08\00:07:54.37
on the streets I
had to learn to read.
00:07:54.40\00:07:56.86
Man, you got a
degree in language,
00:07:56.89\00:07:58.66
you know what I mean,
it's like you love is language,
00:07:58.69\00:08:01.74
it's what you do.
00:08:01.77\00:08:02.84
So we're so different
00:08:02.87\00:08:03.91
but also even from where
you came from and your home,
00:08:03.94\00:08:06.22
so I would like
you to share your story
00:08:06.25\00:08:08.13
with us today, is that right?
00:08:08.16\00:08:10.05
Sure.
00:08:10.08\00:08:11.38
So where did you come
from? What was your home like?
00:08:11.41\00:08:14.15
I was raised in
fairly conservative
00:08:14.18\00:08:18.05
very loving Christian home.
00:08:18.08\00:08:20.49
My parents were school teachers
00:08:20.52\00:08:22.30
for the Adventist school system,
00:08:22.33\00:08:23.70
they were
elementary school teachers.
00:08:23.73\00:08:25.80
And so reading was a
big part of our home.
00:08:25.83\00:08:29.82
I learned to read I
think when I was five,
00:08:29.85\00:08:31.79
taught myself to read
00:08:31.82\00:08:32.90
because I had to
read these books.
00:08:32.93\00:08:36.04
But my dad also ran a
firewood business on the side
00:08:36.07\00:08:39.17
because teachers
don't make a lot of money,
00:08:39.20\00:08:41.25
so you had to do
something to make ends meet.
00:08:41.28\00:08:43.10
And so life for
us was church, school
00:08:43.13\00:08:47.07
and working at home either
in the garden, in the house
00:08:47.10\00:08:50.26
or helping with firewood
there was a lot of work.
00:08:50.29\00:08:53.22
Of course, time
still to build forts
00:08:53.25\00:08:54.92
and play cowboys and Indians
00:08:54.95\00:08:56.76
but it was a
wonderful childhood.
00:08:56.79\00:08:59.78
And the religious factor was big
00:08:59.81\00:09:02.67
because we were not
only taught about God at home
00:09:02.70\00:09:05.96
but also at church and at school
00:09:05.99\00:09:07.66
because it was a
Christian school and--
00:09:07.69\00:09:09.32
Exactly.
00:09:09.35\00:09:10.38
Being a learner as to reader
I took to that very naturally.
00:09:10.41\00:09:14.99
We always had lots of books
in the house and I read avidly.
00:09:15.02\00:09:18.93
And so reading about the Bible
first in the Bible story books
00:09:18.96\00:09:22.61
and then in my later
teen years the Bible itself.
00:09:22.64\00:09:26.54
I could even see
you as there in school
00:09:26.57\00:09:29.36
and you're-- of course a student
00:09:29.39\00:09:30.84
but then they have to do things
00:09:30.87\00:09:33.75
after the other kids go
home to close up to school.
00:09:33.78\00:09:36.59
I could see you with the books
somewhere just saying okay--
00:09:36.62\00:09:38.04
Oh, yeah, sitting in
the corner and at recess.
00:09:38.07\00:09:41.21
Oh, at recess too.
00:09:41.24\00:09:42.27
Yeah, because I
was very shy. Okay.
00:09:42.30\00:09:44.35
And so a book was
always my good companion.
00:09:44.38\00:09:47.72
You know, sitting
alone on the playground
00:09:47.75\00:09:49.19
reading was a very
typical scene for me.
00:09:49.22\00:09:51.64
Oh. Yeah.
00:09:51.67\00:09:53.42
I just want to hug that kid
00:09:53.46\00:09:54.53
because even when you
said that and that was okay.
00:09:54.56\00:09:58.07
There is a part of me that
says I'm wondering if your--
00:09:58.10\00:10:00.69
in your journey
that was always okay.
00:10:00.72\00:10:03.22
No, it wasn't.
00:10:03.25\00:10:05.91
I think that was
way to hide because I--
00:10:05.94\00:10:11.11
I knew I was never
one of the cool kids
00:10:11.14\00:10:13.45
so I compensated by being smart
00:10:13.48\00:10:16.11
and academic accomplishment
00:10:16.14\00:10:18.09
was almost as
good as being cool.
00:10:18.12\00:10:20.26
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:20.29\00:10:22.39
I could that even now, you know.
00:10:22.42\00:10:24.85
Because when-- even
when you're walk in to church
00:10:24.88\00:10:26.74
because we go to the same church
00:10:26.77\00:10:27.99
and we also work together
00:10:28.02\00:10:29.56
is that if
somebody has a project
00:10:29.59\00:10:31.70
and they needed to be
laid out or they needed to be--
00:10:31.73\00:10:34.65
they have the wow
factors they will look at you.
00:10:34.68\00:10:37.16
Just like you
know Fran can do it.
00:10:37.19\00:10:38.71
Because being
busy and working hard
00:10:38.74\00:10:41.69
is makes me feel important
00:10:41.72\00:10:43.56
and being
important is almost just good
00:10:43.59\00:10:45.59
as being having
intimacy with other people.
00:10:45.62\00:10:49.12
It satisfies that
need somehow almost
00:10:49.15\00:10:52.36
and so I've used that--
00:10:52.39\00:10:53.55
I've discovered as a
substitute most of my life.
00:10:53.58\00:10:56.49
So on your journey
00:10:56.52\00:10:57.58
when we talk about
recovery on this program
00:10:57.61\00:11:00.77
at one point would you
have related to that at all?
00:11:00.80\00:11:04.02
No, no, I didn't
think I had any problems.
00:11:04.05\00:11:08.62
I love that.
00:11:08.65\00:11:09.68
When you even said that,
first I was just like, oh, man.
00:11:09.71\00:11:13.30
You know knowing
that if the Bible is true,
00:11:13.33\00:11:16.79
that we all are on this journey,
00:11:16.82\00:11:18.37
all in need of
the blood of Christ.
00:11:18.40\00:11:20.11
So when you said
that I was just thinking
00:11:20.14\00:11:21.83
what does that-- what is
God going to reveal to her?
00:11:21.86\00:11:25.38
And so I would
like you to talk about
00:11:25.41\00:11:28.63
a little bit you're growing--
00:11:28.66\00:11:30.10
you've got a good
picture of your growing up,
00:11:30.13\00:11:33.87
maybe a few more
stories to kind of solidify that
00:11:33.90\00:11:36.88
but then where did
God reach you to say
00:11:36.91\00:11:39.99
maybe there is an issue?
00:11:40.02\00:11:41.31
And what does
that issue look like?
00:11:41.34\00:11:42.81
Yeah, I'm glad to
share, it's important.
00:11:42.84\00:11:44.78
I was baptized I
think when I was seven
00:11:44.81\00:11:47.28
and it came from a book again.
00:11:47.31\00:11:49.95
I was allowed to stay
home one Sabbath afternoon
00:11:49.98\00:11:51.85
when the family went for a walk
00:11:51.88\00:11:53.92
and I was reading the
story of Jesus crucifixion
00:11:53.95\00:11:56.10
in my little Bible storybook
and it moved to me deeply,
00:11:56.13\00:11:59.73
to see that someone so
kind was treated so cruelly.
00:11:59.76\00:12:03.12
I didn't understand
the cause, but I love Him.
00:12:03.15\00:12:07.07
And so I was baptized at seven
00:12:07.10\00:12:09.08
and I was the
sincere following of God.
00:12:09.11\00:12:13.26
My heart has been
after Him my whole life.
00:12:13.29\00:12:16.04
And in high school I was in--
00:12:16.07\00:12:18.02
you know, avid Bible student
then I preached my first sermon
00:12:18.05\00:12:21.53
I think when I was a
sophomore in high school.
00:12:21.56\00:12:25.04
And you can preach some sermons?
00:12:25.07\00:12:26.64
Yeah, I still preach now.
00:12:26.67\00:12:28.31
I love it. Yeah, thank you.
00:12:28.34\00:12:30.44
And-- and I was never
one of the kids who rebelled.
00:12:30.47\00:12:35.13
I didn't want to disappoint
my parents or anybody else.
00:12:35.16\00:12:37.61
Somebody-- this
is just for you guys,
00:12:37.64\00:12:39.78
I thought this is
the funniest thing ever.
00:12:39.81\00:12:42.21
Fran and I in church
00:12:42.24\00:12:43.28
and we both given our
testimony on the same day
00:12:43.31\00:12:45.78
which is
ridiculous because you know--
00:12:45.81\00:12:47.91
About
repentance. About repentance.
00:12:47.94\00:12:49.99
But it's so different
and so somebody says to Fran,
00:12:50.02\00:12:53.50
do you ever wish
you had like a story
00:12:53.53\00:12:55.42
like Cheri that you rebelled?
00:12:55.45\00:12:56.71
And she said, no.
00:12:56.74\00:12:59.10
Do you remember
that? So painful.
00:12:59.13\00:13:00.86
Yeah, well even
who would wish that?
00:13:00.89\00:13:03.19
You know, it's like I'm dealing
00:13:03.22\00:13:04.25
with my own stuff
and it's different.
00:13:04.28\00:13:05.91
But who would want to
be a like heroin addict
00:13:05.94\00:13:07.86
and homeless and
all that kind of stuff.
00:13:07.89\00:13:09.21
Oh, and I don't like pain.
00:13:09.24\00:13:10.72
Okay, but your
response I just cracked up
00:13:10.75\00:13:13.48
because I thought that
was just the funniest thing.
00:13:13.51\00:13:16.83
So and I love what you say
because this is, it's not like,
00:13:16.86\00:13:21.78
it's all of your
journey with God was very rich
00:13:21.81\00:13:25.51
and very real, your
amount of experiences
00:13:25.54\00:13:28.77
and what you would put
out-- put on paper the research
00:13:28.80\00:13:31.81
that you did as far as
diving into these stories
00:13:31.84\00:13:35.35
and what the Bible
meant by this or that.
00:13:35.38\00:13:37.53
I mean when you if--
when you did a sermon
00:13:37.56\00:13:40.44
I could tell that I
mean the original language
00:13:40.47\00:13:43.51
you searched out and
all that kind of stuff--
00:13:43.54\00:13:45.21
But after research.
00:13:45.24\00:13:46.28
All of that was very, very real.
00:13:46.31\00:13:48.18
Very from the--
00:13:48.21\00:13:50.17
I was gonna say from the
heart, that is from the head.
00:13:50.20\00:13:52.47
Yeah, I think it's
from-- well and it touches me--
00:13:52.50\00:13:54.53
I see its beauty and its depth
00:13:54.56\00:13:56.82
and its
poignancy and those things
00:13:56.85\00:14:00.28
and it touches me that way.
00:14:00.31\00:14:03.54
I'll share with you a
couple of faith crisis
00:14:03.57\00:14:05.76
that occurred for me.
00:14:05.79\00:14:06.98
I want my-- shortly
after Bob and I were married
00:14:07.01\00:14:09.06
he took a job that required
him to travel quite a bit,
00:14:09.09\00:14:11.51
so I was home alone.
00:14:11.54\00:14:12.71
And for some reason
00:14:12.74\00:14:13.77
I took to reading
stories like drama in real life
00:14:13.80\00:14:16.15
and the Readers
Digest just horrible stories
00:14:16.18\00:14:20.09
and it would left
to me just terrified,
00:14:20.12\00:14:23.14
especially I've
been alone at night.
00:14:23.17\00:14:24.42
So I'll lay in bed
at night rigid with fear
00:14:24.45\00:14:27.12
just listening to the
sounds of the house and-- Yeah.
00:14:27.15\00:14:30.82
And some-- during that
time somehow subconsciously
00:14:30.85\00:14:36.15
I guess I came to the conclusion
00:14:36.18\00:14:38.14
that if I couldn't trust
God with my physical safety,
00:14:38.17\00:14:40.95
what good is He?
00:14:40.98\00:14:42.69
And I wasn't aware of it
and I continued my regular,
00:14:42.72\00:14:46.43
you know, daily Bible study
00:14:46.46\00:14:47.67
and prayer and
church activities,
00:14:47.70\00:14:50.30
teaching Bible
classes and all of that
00:14:50.33\00:14:52.29
but I was in a
spiritual desert for years.
00:14:52.32\00:14:55.50
So you started to
separate that sense of--
00:14:55.53\00:14:59.89
you know, I am okay
00:14:59.92\00:15:00.95
and the world is safe
to where I am not okay.
00:15:00.98\00:15:04.64
And I couldn't
face that it's not safe.
00:15:04.67\00:15:07.11
I think I masked that,
but I also didn't trust Him
00:15:07.14\00:15:12.20
then because if
I can't trust Him
00:15:12.23\00:15:13.46
to protect me what good is He?
00:15:13.49\00:15:15.69
Right.
00:15:15.72\00:15:16.75
That lasted for
years and I finally--
00:15:16.78\00:15:19.58
the key turning point for me
was a women's seminar I went to
00:15:19.61\00:15:22.78
and there's that song
I forget the name of it
00:15:22.81\00:15:25.55
but it's about when
you can't trace His hand,
00:15:25.58\00:15:29.16
when you can't see
His plan trust His heart.
00:15:29.19\00:15:32.22
And it made me realize
00:15:32.25\00:15:34.97
I can trust Him even
when things aren't okay.
00:15:35.00\00:15:38.59
That was big,
that was one key one.
00:15:38.62\00:15:42.08
And then I would love
you know, it's really tough
00:15:42.11\00:15:45.63
to fully flush out
or color those moments
00:15:45.66\00:15:48.53
because those
moments are so significant.
00:15:48.56\00:15:50.92
If somebody can look
at in a spiritual sense
00:15:50.95\00:15:54.04
that you change, you
came back towards God.
00:15:54.07\00:15:58.09
Yeah, yeah it was the key lesson
00:15:58.12\00:16:00.35
that He can trusted
even when things aren't good.
00:16:00.38\00:16:02.61
Yeah.
00:16:02.64\00:16:04.62
Another really big one
was about ten years ago
00:16:04.65\00:16:09.37
at this point I
had been teaching
00:16:09.40\00:16:11.28
Bible classes for 25 years
or so very deep Bible student.
00:16:11.31\00:16:18.43
And I'm just love studying
the Bible hours every week.
00:16:18.46\00:16:24.12
And I went to camp
meeting with a friend
00:16:24.15\00:16:29.12
and she said to me, oh,
let's just talk about God.
00:16:29.15\00:16:34.76
And I thought okay.
00:16:34.79\00:16:39.71
I mean, I'm glad
to talk with you about
00:16:39.74\00:16:41.29
all these wonderful things
I'm learning in the Bible.
00:16:41.32\00:16:43.85
Right. I love
to talk about that.
00:16:43.88\00:16:45.07
All this research.
00:16:45.10\00:16:46.15
But she wants to
talk about God like,
00:16:46.18\00:16:48.79
let's just talk about God.
00:16:48.82\00:16:50.66
I'm thinking, I
don't have anything to say.
00:16:50.69\00:16:55.74
Explain that because to me
00:16:55.77\00:16:57.91
I think that
there are so many people
00:16:57.94\00:16:59.42
watching right now don't
know exactly what you're saying.
00:16:59.45\00:17:01.72
Yeah. Look I don't--
00:17:01.75\00:17:02.98
What do you mean? I
haven't encountered Him.
00:17:03.01\00:17:06.97
I don't-- haven't seen Him.
00:17:07.00\00:17:08.74
I can tell you
thoughts about Him,
00:17:08.77\00:17:11.91
I can tell you how
beautiful the Bible is,
00:17:11.94\00:17:14.85
how moving its messages
but I haven't encountered Him.
00:17:14.88\00:17:19.08
I don't find Him doing
anything directly in my life.
00:17:19.11\00:17:25.45
It's not a personal
thing? It is not at all.
00:17:25.48\00:17:27.84
I mean, no, it is
not. And at that point--
00:17:27.87\00:17:34.30
Even saying that, because to me
00:17:34.33\00:17:36.07
I think the first
time I realized for one
00:17:36.10\00:17:41.17
how the
vulnerability we've been saying
00:17:41.20\00:17:43.01
that out loud even to yourself
00:17:43.04\00:17:45.50
and especially as
intellectual as you are,
00:17:45.53\00:17:51.07
knowing that disconnect.
00:17:51.10\00:17:52.58
I mean, that's
very much a disconnect.
00:17:52.61\00:17:54.70
Is that being able to say
00:17:54.73\00:17:57.82
that must have cost
somewhat of a crisis.
00:17:57.85\00:18:00.60
And being able to say to someone
00:18:00.63\00:18:02.58
is that I don't want to
really kind of be right here
00:18:02.61\00:18:05.22
because that's too vulnerable
and I don't want to say to you
00:18:05.25\00:18:07.71
that I can't
just talk about God.
00:18:07.74\00:18:10.22
Yeah, it was--
00:18:10.25\00:18:11.46
I remember during that time
going to camp meeting every day
00:18:11.49\00:18:15.08
and coming home and just crying
00:18:15.11\00:18:17.67
uncontrollably on the drive home
00:18:17.70\00:18:19.58
and I had no idea why,
no idea what was going on.
00:18:19.61\00:18:23.05
But one thing I knew is
that I needed to see Him.
00:18:23.08\00:18:27.40
And I started asking Him
that I needed to see You.
00:18:27.43\00:18:30.63
It's got to be something
real, not just the book.
00:18:30.66\00:18:33.76
At the same
time and I don't know
00:18:33.79\00:18:36.24
if I've ever asked
you this, at the same time
00:18:36.27\00:18:38.02
I know that you were
really doing some deep studies
00:18:38.05\00:18:42.89
or at least having
discussions with folks
00:18:42.92\00:18:45.67
that were
incredible in your life,
00:18:45.70\00:18:47.82
that didn't--
that threw God away
00:18:47.85\00:18:50.39
wrote a book on now
kind of even be an atheist
00:18:50.42\00:18:54.12
so that the Bible is not real.
00:18:54.15\00:18:55.54
So I mean, you really were doing
00:18:55.57\00:18:56.81
some great stuff in that sense.
00:18:56.84\00:18:59.61
Did that-- did that play a
part in this journey for you?
00:18:59.64\00:19:05.01
That actually
came a little later.
00:19:05.04\00:19:06.99
So this is
second big crisis. Okay.
00:19:07.02\00:19:10.63
But the outcome of this one was
that God answered that prayer,
00:19:10.66\00:19:16.05
I need to see You.
00:19:16.08\00:19:17.90
And what I began to see was
during my times in the Bible,
00:19:17.93\00:19:21.91
He would give me I
think of them as revelations
00:19:21.94\00:19:27.16
just little insights
big to me of Himself.
00:19:27.19\00:19:33.07
And His love
00:19:33.10\00:19:36.99
and His
incredible wisdom in the way
00:19:37.02\00:19:40.27
He dealt with people
and just the gentle kindness
00:19:40.30\00:19:44.17
and sometimes I mean it's
just so moving it makes me cry.
00:19:44.20\00:19:48.13
He still does
those things. Amen.
00:19:48.16\00:19:50.56
So that was a big and
that was ten years ago.
00:19:50.59\00:19:53.18
But now the one you
were just referring to
00:19:53.21\00:19:55.48
is the one I'm in
the middle of right now.
00:19:55.51\00:19:58.31
And this one is more difficult
00:19:58.34\00:20:00.05
and seems to be
talking much longer for Him
00:20:00.08\00:20:02.47
to get through to me.
00:20:02.50\00:20:04.50
What came about
there was, I've been--
00:20:04.53\00:20:06.93
But if you believe though there
when you making that statement
00:20:06.96\00:20:10.63
I want to just say to
anybody listening to or,
00:20:10.66\00:20:13.75
you know, in the
cafe is that you know,
00:20:13.78\00:20:17.00
there are when God gets
closer and closer and closer
00:20:17.03\00:20:20.76
to our heart that some
things I think do you seem like
00:20:20.79\00:20:24.65
they take longer but God said,
00:20:24.68\00:20:26.03
this is actually
when I get through here,
00:20:26.06\00:20:30.00
you were just gonna so
feel the warmth of who I am.
00:20:30.03\00:20:33.72
Not only understand My heart
and understand My love for you
00:20:33.75\00:20:36.80
and understand that gentleness
00:20:36.83\00:20:38.38
but will be so close that you
actually feel the warmth of it.
00:20:38.41\00:20:41.19
And so I think it is those
layers that in our healing,
00:20:41.22\00:20:45.82
you know, like mine is
way different than yours way,
00:20:45.85\00:20:48.80
you know, that I
just have to trust
00:20:48.83\00:20:50.20
that I'm not gonna slam
heroin tomorrow that's like.
00:20:50.23\00:20:53.18
Do you know what I
mean it's so different?
00:20:53.21\00:20:55.51
But I-- even when
you say that I just love,
00:20:55.54\00:21:00.00
you know, that is taken a while.
00:21:00.03\00:21:01.20
It does take-- yeah,
I think it takes a while
00:21:01.23\00:21:03.19
and exactly surprised me.
00:21:03.22\00:21:04.96
Would you call yourself
because I've always thought,
00:21:04.99\00:21:07.70
you know, would
you call yourself,
00:21:07.73\00:21:11.71
you know, intellectual,
00:21:11.74\00:21:12.84
workaholic, religious addiction.
00:21:12.87\00:21:14.80
I mean what would you say
00:21:14.83\00:21:15.86
that if somebody had to
put label on any of the stuff?
00:21:15.89\00:21:19.45
Would you put
any of those recovery
00:21:19.48\00:21:21.28
kind of labels on at this point?
00:21:21.31\00:21:24.03
What I've come to realize
00:21:24.06\00:21:25.09
is that I have a very
strong need for approval.
00:21:25.12\00:21:28.39
So it's approval
addiction I don't know,
00:21:28.42\00:21:30.46
it manifest itself in
that I'm a workaholic.
00:21:30.49\00:21:33.85
Okay, so let's go back
to the now these crisis.
00:21:33.88\00:21:36.82
Yeah. What started it?
00:21:36.85\00:21:39.07
What started it is
that about three year--
00:21:39.10\00:21:41.98
longer than that,
five years ago or so
00:21:42.01\00:21:43.35
I started doing Bible studies
00:21:43.38\00:21:45.81
outside the church.
00:21:45.84\00:21:47.99
And my first was with a
beautiful woman in her 60s
00:21:48.02\00:21:51.76
who was had been a prostitute
and now she in her home
00:21:51.79\00:21:55.41
she has like all
the neighborhood teens
00:21:55.44\00:21:57.60
are over her place all
the time and there is--
00:21:57.63\00:21:59.88
house is filled with
smoke and we got the Bible out
00:21:59.91\00:22:02.66
and she is just crying
over it and it's so beautiful.
00:22:02.69\00:22:05.76
And she passed away
before we finished but--
00:22:05.79\00:22:09.22
You do have studies with people
00:22:09.25\00:22:10.92
that are so just
emotionally trash and addiction.
00:22:10.95\00:22:14.20
Yeah, where did
this come from? I know.
00:22:14.23\00:22:16.28
How does God come up
with putting me with them
00:22:16.31\00:22:18.08
I don't know what it is?
But He's done it several times.
00:22:18.11\00:22:21.18
And more-- I've seen it.
00:22:21.21\00:22:22.66
Yeah, well and more
recently you've seen the ones
00:22:22.69\00:22:24.82
that I've been studying
with a group of men and women
00:22:24.85\00:22:27.10
who are currently
addicts even or former addicts
00:22:27.13\00:22:32.18
and many of them are ex-cons.
00:22:32.21\00:22:35.24
And all kinds of
abuse backgrounds
00:22:35.27\00:22:37.39
and very difficult--
00:22:37.42\00:22:38.45
They walk into Bible
study and you can smell pot.
00:22:38.48\00:22:42.03
She can smell pot. Oh, sorry.
00:22:42.06\00:22:44.31
I don't have a clue.
So, I'm sorry, that's true.
00:22:44.34\00:22:49.64
I don't have a clue, yeah.
00:22:49.67\00:22:51.29
So when that started
you having these studies--
00:22:51.32\00:22:53.80
Yeah, and I
study-- Outside the church.
00:22:53.83\00:22:55.21
I studied with one
woman first say for a year
00:22:55.24\00:22:59.59
and then she was baptized
00:22:59.62\00:23:00.68
and she wanted to
reach out to others like her.
00:23:00.71\00:23:03.18
And so we
started inviting them in
00:23:03.21\00:23:06.24
and sometimes we would do
00:23:06.27\00:23:07.37
in like baby showers
with this out risk moms
00:23:07.40\00:23:09.32
and then they would
join our Bible study
00:23:09.35\00:23:10.97
and it's been awesome.
00:23:11.00\00:23:12.76
But baby showers
for out risk moms.
00:23:12.79\00:23:14.73
In our church
they-- what they would do
00:23:14.76\00:23:17.86
is they would put
a ad in the paper.
00:23:17.89\00:23:19.65
If you are in this area
and you don't have anyone
00:23:19.68\00:23:23.57
to help you deliver this baby
just call us and they would be,
00:23:23.60\00:23:27.14
you know one
was-- this is horrible--
00:23:27.17\00:23:28.90
Craig's list. Craig's list.
00:23:28.93\00:23:29.96
Horrible meth
addict, she had, you know,
00:23:29.99\00:23:32.75
I don't want to say too
much just because you know
00:23:32.78\00:23:34.83
I'm not at privilege to say
00:23:34.86\00:23:36.51
but I mean all of this kind
of stuff having these babies
00:23:36.54\00:23:38.99
that are born
into these situations.
00:23:39.02\00:23:40.95
And they're doing baby
showers and getting beds
00:23:40.98\00:23:43.21
and blankets and bottles
and all that kind of stuff.
00:23:43.24\00:23:45.64
And they would go to
the hospital on the day
00:23:45.67\00:23:46.87
the babies deliver and sit there
00:23:46.90\00:23:48.28
where they're doing
labor-- it's just been great.
00:23:48.31\00:23:50.32
It's just beautiful
and really it's beautiful.
00:23:50.35\00:23:53.33
And for me I never
been loved or nurtured
00:23:53.36\00:23:56.23
I just-- there were
times I watched you guys
00:23:56.26\00:23:58.71
just thinking
that how incredible
00:23:58.74\00:24:01.43
what you are offering to them.
00:24:01.46\00:24:03.84
Yeah. And at the same time--
00:24:03.87\00:24:05.85
At the same time
there is a problem.
00:24:05.88\00:24:08.51
So it came-- it
became very clear to me
00:24:08.54\00:24:10.73
one evening we
were doing Bible study
00:24:10.76\00:24:13.09
and I think they were about
00:24:13.12\00:24:14.27
10 people in
the room that night.
00:24:14.30\00:24:16.30
And we went around introducing
because lots were new
00:24:16.33\00:24:18.58
and I realized that I
was the only one in the room,
00:24:18.61\00:24:22.50
not only that had no tattoos
or body piercings but had no--
00:24:22.53\00:24:26.94
We can get you on, no I'm sorry.
00:24:26.97\00:24:29.43
But had no background with
any sort of chemical addiction,
00:24:29.46\00:24:33.83
no criminal record, no
abuse background nothing.
00:24:33.86\00:24:37.73
I was the only one in the room.
00:24:37.76\00:24:39.75
And I was glad
that they were there
00:24:39.78\00:24:41.89
to seeking God
that was wonderful.
00:24:41.92\00:24:45.25
But then we
started the Bible study
00:24:45.28\00:24:47.05
and I watched them glaze over.
00:24:47.08\00:24:51.21
And it made me realize
00:24:51.24\00:24:53.56
that what I was
trying to communicate to them
00:24:53.59\00:24:56.70
wasn't coming
across as relevant.
00:24:56.73\00:24:58.99
And I when I talked
to them about God's love
00:24:59.02\00:25:02.66
it sounded hollow even to me.
00:25:02.69\00:25:04.97
Wow.
00:25:05.00\00:25:06.21
And I could tell
that it was because inside
00:25:06.24\00:25:09.56
I didn't have a deep personal
understanding of God's love.
00:25:09.59\00:25:15.00
I hadn't experienced it myself.
00:25:15.03\00:25:16.88
So the joy and the hope of
that couldn't come through.
00:25:16.91\00:25:20.93
And there was a
quote in Steps to Christ,
00:25:20.96\00:25:24.68
we were starting to work
on that book about that time.
00:25:24.71\00:25:27.50
And so immersed in
the messages of the book
00:25:27.53\00:25:30.88
and experiencing that was--
00:25:30.91\00:25:33.04
God was working
on me through that.
00:25:33.07\00:25:35.38
There is one quote
in that book that says,
00:25:35.41\00:25:37.92
"That there can
be no deep-seated
00:25:37.95\00:25:41.92
love for Jesus in our heart
00:25:41.95\00:25:43.49
that doesn't
realize its own need."
00:25:43.52\00:25:46.71
That's huge. Yeah.
00:25:46.74\00:25:48.54
And what's really
huge about that is
00:25:48.57\00:25:50.49
because-- you know even
as you talked about your life
00:25:50.52\00:25:54.06
is that there is no part of it
00:25:54.09\00:25:56.13
that you can
point out that says,
00:25:56.16\00:25:57.44
I wasn't loved and cared
for and I had all my needs met
00:25:57.47\00:26:01.07
and I was in the great church
and all that kind of stuff.
00:26:01.10\00:26:04.02
And so now God is saying,
00:26:04.05\00:26:05.69
you know, Fran,
what's your need for Me?
00:26:05.72\00:26:07.80
Yeah. Why do you need Me?
00:26:07.83\00:26:08.93
Why is the blood of
Christ important to you?
00:26:08.96\00:26:12.11
It was at that time
that you said, one thing
00:26:12.14\00:26:14.84
that was really strategic for me
00:26:14.87\00:26:17.09
and that was
that when you realize
00:26:17.12\00:26:21.31
the extent of the
damage you have caused
00:26:21.34\00:26:25.08
it will make a big difference.
00:26:25.11\00:26:27.07
And so I asked God
at that time show me--
00:26:27.10\00:26:29.14
Do you know, when I said that
00:26:29.17\00:26:31.25
I went home and cried for you?
00:26:31.28\00:26:33.43
And why I cried
is because I thought,
00:26:33.46\00:26:36.47
you know-- my
stuff is so out there
00:26:36.50\00:26:39.23
and the damage I
caused is so out there
00:26:39.26\00:26:41.13
and I didn't have
to-- and I'm looking at you
00:26:41.16\00:26:44.53
and I don't want to make
you feel uncomfortable with this
00:26:44.56\00:26:48.85
but you're so gracious to folks
and there is such a kindness
00:26:48.88\00:26:52.40
with who you are
and that kind of stuff.
00:26:52.43\00:26:53.94
And I thought
when she sees this,
00:26:53.97\00:26:56.65
she is gonna have to
experience some pain.
00:26:56.68\00:26:58.95
And I just cried about
that and I wanted to say
00:26:58.98\00:27:01.81
God, be gentle but then I don't
00:27:01.84\00:27:03.98
because I want-- I
know that what you want,
00:27:04.01\00:27:06.27
what you saw for your whole life
00:27:06.30\00:27:08.21
is something that's very real.
00:27:08.24\00:27:10.04
And so, you know, whatever
it takes to show her, her need.
00:27:10.07\00:27:14.97
She is asking
for that right now.
00:27:15.00\00:27:16.41
Yeah.
00:27:16.44\00:27:17.75
And I'm-- so I asked Him,
00:27:17.78\00:27:20.91
show me and He has been showing.
00:27:20.94\00:27:24.20
I don't think He's done yet
00:27:24.23\00:27:26.05
but some of what
I've began to see
00:27:26.08\00:27:27.91
is that I've been performance
oriented most of my life.
00:27:27.94\00:27:34.99
It's that compensation for
I'm not cool so I can be smart.
00:27:35.02\00:27:39.89
And I don't have--
00:27:39.92\00:27:42.49
I fear I'm not
having intimacy with anyone.
00:27:42.52\00:27:47.88
And so I've backed into
work and being in control
00:27:47.91\00:27:53.79
because that's
almost as good as intimacy.
00:27:53.82\00:27:56.46
So you researched
more to better projects.
00:27:56.49\00:27:59.73
I run the
project, I'm in-charge.
00:27:59.76\00:28:01.52
I'm in control and I worked hard
00:28:01.55\00:28:03.26
and you'll notice.
00:28:03.29\00:28:06.46
I talked with somebody
that you work with not in--
00:28:06.49\00:28:09.27
now I'm hoping that eventually
you worked as fulltime for us
00:28:09.30\00:28:12.82
and we don't have to worry
about sharing you with anyone.
00:28:12.85\00:28:15.62
But I talked with
somebody that you worked with
00:28:15.65\00:28:18.27
and your real job and he said,
no, I have to stay on my toes
00:28:18.30\00:28:23.30
because Fran is
always on her toes.
00:28:23.33\00:28:25.31
And I mean, he
really just said, you know,
00:28:25.34\00:28:27.80
I can't let up at all
because she'd let's out.
00:28:27.83\00:28:31.51
Yeah, I don't, yeah.
00:28:31.54\00:28:32.71
And he said that with kindness.
00:28:32.74\00:28:34.47
Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:34.50\00:28:36.65
So gaining respect
has been my substitute
00:28:36.68\00:28:41.92
for significance in intimacy
00:28:41.95\00:28:44.17
which I think are really things
00:28:44.20\00:28:45.93
that we're designed to
need significance and intimacy--
00:28:45.96\00:28:49.68
Can you share with--
00:28:49.71\00:28:50.74
and this is kind of an odd thing
00:28:50.77\00:28:52.40
to share at this moment
00:28:52.43\00:28:53.69
but I thought about a story
you told me about the prom.
00:28:53.72\00:28:58.29
Oh, yeah.
00:28:58.32\00:29:00.69
So I was a dorm
student in high school
00:29:00.72\00:29:03.47
and attended a
private Christian high school.
00:29:03.50\00:29:06.78
And my roommate stole my
boyfriend on a music tour
00:29:06.81\00:29:12.43
and then just before the banquet
00:29:12.46\00:29:15.37
which is the equivalent in that
school of a prom to seniors.
00:29:15.40\00:29:19.98
So obviously that's very painful
00:29:20.01\00:29:22.29
but I was
in-charge of the banquet.
00:29:22.32\00:29:25.35
And so-- They
were just attending.
00:29:25.38\00:29:27.66
They were just attending
and though I experienced--
00:29:27.69\00:29:32.44
not only did it give me
something to immerse myself in
00:29:32.47\00:29:35.61
but I experienced
during that banquet
00:29:35.64\00:29:37.53
the sense of power
that I was in control
00:29:37.56\00:29:40.45
and I was doing
something significant
00:29:40.48\00:29:42.16
and they were
just sitting there,
00:29:42.19\00:29:43.95
looking at each other.
00:29:43.98\00:29:45.64
And it was, it was high.
00:29:45.67\00:29:48.36
And it taught me very deeply
00:29:48.39\00:29:51.53
that the being in control
makes me feel significant.
00:29:51.56\00:29:56.11
And decreases the pain.
00:29:56.14\00:29:58.63
I don't have to
deal with the pain,
00:29:58.66\00:29:59.82
I don't have to
deal with loneliness,
00:29:59.85\00:30:01.07
I don't have to deal
with any of that kind of stuff
00:30:01.10\00:30:03.48
and I totally can
get fed from the power.
00:30:03.51\00:30:09.97
And it should be sitting
in the cafeteria at a table
00:30:10.00\00:30:12.83
all by yourself and
feeling like a reject.
00:30:12.86\00:30:16.09
So, you know, to
me it's hard for me
00:30:16.12\00:30:19.85
to understand that
kind of addictive response
00:30:19.88\00:30:24.49
because it so--
it so looks great.
00:30:24.52\00:30:27.88
Do you know what I
mean? It looks great.
00:30:27.91\00:30:30.08
You know, the next
person that wants a banquet
00:30:30.11\00:30:32.04
and they're gonna call you.
00:30:32.07\00:30:33.10
I mean, you know,
nobody is even sees
00:30:33.13\00:30:35.52
the need with me or an addict
00:30:35.55\00:30:38.25
if you slam heroin,
if you got drinking,
00:30:38.28\00:30:39.91
or your whatever
it's more obvious.
00:30:39.94\00:30:42.60
And so to me as you--
it's social acceptable
00:30:42.63\00:30:46.19
and so as God is
leading you into a place
00:30:46.22\00:30:48.84
to say you know what,
I'm gonna try to undo this
00:30:48.87\00:30:52.37
because it's
doing the same thing
00:30:52.40\00:30:53.96
that any other
addict experiences,
00:30:53.99\00:30:56.23
even the same
breakdown in your intimacy
00:30:56.26\00:31:00.30
and your family and your life
00:31:00.33\00:31:03.76
but you've got
to see the damage.
00:31:03.79\00:31:05.97
And so now He's
doing that with you.
00:31:06.00\00:31:09.48
I remember
giving you-- telling you
00:31:09.51\00:31:11.85
one of my favorite
books was Inside Out,
00:31:11.88\00:31:13.82
looking at kind
of all of our stuff
00:31:13.85\00:31:15.60
and saying you know Fran,
00:31:15.63\00:31:17.02
this may be a book
that you want to look at.
00:31:17.05\00:31:19.56
Yeah, that was a very
important book for me.
00:31:19.59\00:31:21.87
One of the verses
that the book references
00:31:21.90\00:31:23.99
was just pivotal
for me in this journey.
00:31:24.02\00:31:26.87
It was-- I think it's
in Isaiah that God says,
00:31:26.90\00:31:30.25
"My people have
committed a double evil.
00:31:30.28\00:31:32.58
They have turned for me,
the source of living water
00:31:32.61\00:31:35.96
and hew for themselves cisterns,
00:31:35.99\00:31:38.50
broken cisterns
they cannot hold water."
00:31:38.53\00:31:41.42
It's the turning
away is the first evil
00:31:41.45\00:31:44.16
to find a different substitute.
00:31:44.19\00:31:46.35
A different source.
00:31:46.38\00:31:47.41
A difference source
for the thirst of the soul.
00:31:47.44\00:31:50.16
And for me the thirst
was intimacy and significance
00:31:50.19\00:31:53.02
and I found a
substitute outside of Him.
00:31:53.05\00:31:56.63
What was really tough for you,
00:31:56.66\00:32:01.60
probably most of
you know or for anybody
00:32:01.63\00:32:04.93
that is actually incredible,
00:32:04.96\00:32:07.93
you know, intellectually
and all that kind of stuff
00:32:07.96\00:32:09.73
is your cistern
was very pretty good.
00:32:09.76\00:32:12.06
You know, you found a way
that it hardly even leaked.
00:32:12.09\00:32:15.55
And one evidence
of it came to me as--
00:32:15.58\00:32:20.40
after you asked
me that question was,
00:32:20.43\00:32:23.15
I had to admit
that in my prayer time,
00:32:23.18\00:32:28.59
there is never any
confession, almost never.
00:32:28.62\00:32:32.45
I couldn't think
anything to confess.
00:32:32.48\00:32:34.52
I mean, occasionally I
have like critical time
00:32:34.55\00:32:37.06
or sometimes I'm impatient.
00:32:37.09\00:32:39.65
I've never seen it.
00:32:39.68\00:32:41.01
And yeah, I mean
and so once in a while
00:32:41.04\00:32:43.58
there is some
small thing to confess
00:32:43.61\00:32:45.21
but generally there is not.
00:32:45.24\00:32:47.21
And for-- if I were honest
00:32:47.24\00:32:49.40
I would have to
admit that for me
00:32:49.43\00:32:52.51
the cross fell like overkill.
00:32:52.54\00:32:54.54
Wow.
00:32:54.57\00:32:56.65
So what do you mean by that,
the cross fell like overkill?
00:32:56.68\00:32:59.15
Like, did you have
to actually go that far?
00:32:59.18\00:33:02.01
God had to pour
out all of heaven
00:33:02.04\00:33:04.34
and Jesus had to die
because I'm sometimes impatient.
00:33:04.37\00:33:08.45
You got to be kidding?
00:33:08.48\00:33:09.93
Wow, wow. That's worth it.
00:33:09.96\00:33:11.62
I mean, I don't
think I had ever said that
00:33:11.65\00:33:13.90
to myself consciously
00:33:13.93\00:33:15.28
but when I was
really honest looking inside
00:33:15.31\00:33:19.85
that's what I saw,
was for my hell is that.
00:33:19.88\00:33:24.73
So where did he go from there?
00:33:24.76\00:33:27.70
I mean, you
know, where did he go
00:33:27.73\00:33:28.98
from there was like
God, can you show me,
00:33:29.01\00:33:31.34
why it's not overkill?
00:33:31.37\00:33:32.40
Can you show me?
00:33:32.43\00:33:33.48
Yeah. That's why that--
00:33:33.51\00:33:35.10
Can I survive
when You show it to me?
00:33:35.13\00:33:37.71
That's why that question
you asked was so important.
00:33:37.74\00:33:41.29
What's the extent of
the damage You've caused?
00:33:41.32\00:33:43.97
And when I asked God,
He showed me things like
00:33:44.00\00:33:48.29
the damage I had
caused to my kids
00:33:48.32\00:33:49.91
because I'm so
performance oriented
00:33:49.94\00:33:52.77
that's the way I raised them.
00:33:52.80\00:33:54.66
And for them to relate to God
00:33:54.69\00:33:57.82
because of that has been
very difficult from my side.
00:33:57.85\00:34:00.79
He completely rebelled,
turned completely against God.
00:34:00.82\00:34:05.25
And it took for him
a trip into alcoholism
00:34:05.28\00:34:08.47
and recovery through a day
00:34:08.50\00:34:10.19
before he finally
connected with the God
00:34:10.22\00:34:12.54
that was he
could view as for Him.
00:34:12.57\00:34:15.93
That's incredible,
even for you to see
00:34:15.96\00:34:19.38
how painful was that, to
think that maybe my escape
00:34:19.41\00:34:24.69
what I used to survive
actually almost killed him.
00:34:24.72\00:34:29.50
Yeah, it's-- what
I'm finding honestly
00:34:29.53\00:34:34.27
is that it's taking
God a while to touch me
00:34:34.30\00:34:37.01
emotionally with this stuff.
00:34:37.04\00:34:39.87
There still a numbness in here
that He's having to work on.
00:34:39.90\00:34:43.62
I don't think He
is through showing me.
00:34:43.65\00:34:45.77
But seeing James struggle like
00:34:45.80\00:34:47.31
that it's been
very, very difficult.
00:34:47.34\00:34:50.09
For Bob it's
also a big revelation
00:34:50.12\00:34:54.70
as you heard earlier Bob's
got his own journey of pain
00:34:54.73\00:34:58.51
but I didn't know it
and didn't understand at all
00:34:58.54\00:35:01.60
the issues that I saw.
00:35:01.63\00:35:03.39
From me it just looked
00:35:03.42\00:35:04.45
that he had a bad
attitude and a bad temper.
00:35:04.48\00:35:06.22
And so straighten up
and start being a victim
00:35:06.25\00:35:09.85
there was I think
I added to his burden
00:35:09.88\00:35:14.56
because of what I was at.
00:35:14.59\00:35:17.15
And what I love about
God because some of the stuff
00:35:17.18\00:35:21.77
that God does have to
show us in our journey,
00:35:21.80\00:35:24.74
in our denial and the fact
that for one-- for a little girl
00:35:24.77\00:35:29.51
you really did find something
that worked-- it worked well.
00:35:29.54\00:35:32.93
I didn't have to
deal with the pain of--
00:35:32.96\00:35:34.46
of not being the cool kid
and all that kind of stuff
00:35:34.49\00:35:37.01
or you know, that
it worked so well.
00:35:37.04\00:35:39.24
But then the God says,
00:35:39.27\00:35:40.47
if you truly do want to recover,
00:35:40.50\00:35:42.88
if you truly do
want to connect with me
00:35:42.91\00:35:44.84
I have to expose the stuff,
I have to be able to do that.
00:35:44.87\00:35:49.65
And I think it breaks His heart
when He has to do that for us.
00:35:49.68\00:35:52.48
I think so.
00:35:52.51\00:35:54.93
You know, for me it's
been a huge attack on--
00:35:54.96\00:36:00.44
I call it an
attack it feels that way,
00:36:00.47\00:36:02.52
on my sense of integrity
00:36:02.55\00:36:04.94
because everything
that I have thought
00:36:04.97\00:36:07.11
I was a deep follower of
God and very sincere in my faith
00:36:07.14\00:36:11.98
and all tshose things
00:36:12.01\00:36:13.52
looks like it's not
real if it's just fake.
00:36:13.55\00:36:18.13
I mean there is no
real connection with him,
00:36:18.16\00:36:19.80
that's not vital.
00:36:19.83\00:36:20.86
If I have
nothing to say to anyone
00:36:20.89\00:36:24.21
who has got a serious need
00:36:24.24\00:36:26.60
because I haven't
encountered it myself,
00:36:26.63\00:36:29.20
to me this is a
huge integrity issue.
00:36:29.23\00:36:31.95
And it challenges
everything I thought I was.
00:36:31.98\00:36:36.28
What's gonna be interesting is
00:36:36.31\00:36:38.42
when He weaves our back together
00:36:38.45\00:36:40.51
and shows you
that you've always had
00:36:40.54\00:36:42.42
that heart for Him
and that heart for people
00:36:42.45\00:36:44.92
and the love for your child
00:36:44.95\00:36:46.17
so that your addiction has
disconnected you on some level
00:36:46.20\00:36:50.23
but it was very real journey.
00:36:50.26\00:36:52.12
And you said that
even before is that when--
00:36:52.15\00:36:54.25
I in the midst of this journey
I did feel the presence of God
00:36:54.28\00:36:57.69
and I did feel
love, I did feel all that
00:36:57.72\00:37:00.07
and so I think
that on the other side
00:37:00.10\00:37:02.20
is that that we've
been back together.
00:37:02.23\00:37:04.66
But in addiction
and studying you know,
00:37:04.69\00:37:09.06
there are times
was-- with people
00:37:09.09\00:37:10.89
that have those
cleaner addictions,
00:37:10.92\00:37:13.38
workaholism or religious
addictions or perfectionism,
00:37:13.41\00:37:16.22
that performance addictions,
00:37:16.25\00:37:18.38
approval addiction is that
we look at those are so clean
00:37:18.41\00:37:22.58
but when they actually
look at family dynamics,
00:37:22.61\00:37:25.64
the family dynamics
are the same as an addict,
00:37:25.67\00:37:29.00
as an alcoholic
that as the-- you know,
00:37:29.03\00:37:31.34
because the woes
and the dysfunction
00:37:31.37\00:37:33.28
and that disconnect intimately
00:37:33.31\00:37:36.32
and our intimacies are the same.
00:37:36.35\00:37:37.79
Same style.
00:37:37.82\00:37:38.85
And so that's what
God is showing you now.
00:37:38.88\00:37:40.79
Yeah, and it's the same thing,
00:37:40.82\00:37:42.45
the same problem of
substituting one thing
00:37:42.48\00:37:45.11
for the only thing
that can ever satisfy
00:37:45.14\00:37:47.50
what's needed inside you.
00:37:47.53\00:37:49.25
I mean, I'm substituting
you are substituting,
00:37:49.28\00:37:52.13
everybody is
substituting something for God
00:37:52.16\00:37:55.02
and He is the only
one that can fill it.
00:37:55.05\00:37:57.00
And what God is asking us
for really a connection with Him
00:37:57.03\00:38:00.18
and then a
connection with each other.
00:38:00.21\00:38:02.83
That what we seek in order
to protect us on intimate level
00:38:02.86\00:38:06.55
we're actually seeking
in a real sense from Him.
00:38:06.58\00:38:10.06
That's right.
That's absolutely right.
00:38:10.09\00:38:12.65
You know, what's to
me I just got to say,
00:38:12.68\00:38:14.85
we're gonna open
it up for questions
00:38:14.88\00:38:16.34
but I just love you.
00:38:16.37\00:38:17.74
I love your journey
and I know it's not easy
00:38:17.77\00:38:20.30
and for people
that have in their mind
00:38:20.33\00:38:23.95
really strive to
do the right thing
00:38:23.98\00:38:26.20
and be right and not act out
00:38:26.23\00:38:28.71
and not do all
that kind of stuff
00:38:28.74\00:38:30.09
it's really tough
when you look at possibly
00:38:30.12\00:38:35.62
how you did it
was done addictively
00:38:35.65\00:38:38.38
and allowing God
to gently come in
00:38:38.41\00:38:41.18
and start to say, this is
how you're gonna get freedom.
00:38:41.21\00:38:45.64
This is how you're
gonna get real connection.
00:38:45.67\00:38:47.40
Or even show you
what's actually inside.
00:38:47.43\00:38:51.22
I've noticed that a lot of folks
00:38:51.25\00:38:52.45
aren't really
comfortable with that
00:38:52.48\00:38:53.71
and I didn't
really get it at first
00:38:53.74\00:38:55.00
because it felt like sort
of wallowing and something
00:38:55.03\00:38:58.23
but if you don't
see what's going on
00:38:58.26\00:39:01.41
you know, this
all that feels no need
00:39:01.44\00:39:04.14
can have no
deep-seated love for Jesus.
00:39:04.17\00:39:05.95
You've got to see
what's really going on inside
00:39:05.98\00:39:08.29
if He's ever gonna
be able to draw you
00:39:08.32\00:39:09.91
to His solution for it.
00:39:09.94\00:39:14.49
I just think that's so
right on, it's so spot on.
00:39:14.52\00:39:17.31
It's a hard thing to
do though. It is hard.
00:39:17.34\00:39:19.46
We're gonna open
it for questions.
00:39:19.49\00:39:20.76
I know that Karen,
you had a question.
00:39:20.79\00:39:23.25
Yes, my name is Karen Owen
and my journey is somewhat like
00:39:23.28\00:39:27.64
yours except I wasn't born--
00:39:27.67\00:39:29.63
I didn't come
into Adventist faith--
00:39:29.66\00:39:31.46
I came into with Adventist faith
00:39:31.49\00:39:32.74
and wasn't born an Adventist.
00:39:32.77\00:39:34.44
And my toughest
journey has been accepting
00:39:34.47\00:39:37.68
that God loves me,
00:39:37.71\00:39:38.74
I'm a performance
person too you know,
00:39:38.77\00:39:41.52
what people see is
very important to me.
00:39:41.55\00:39:44.76
And I always wanted to be loved
but never felt I was loved.
00:39:44.79\00:39:48.57
And so when I come to God
00:39:48.60\00:39:50.48
you know, my thing is
does He really love me?
00:39:50.51\00:39:53.23
I know He says that,
how are you adjusting
00:39:53.26\00:39:55.94
to changing
from this performance
00:39:55.97\00:39:58.12
into letting God be the one
00:39:58.15\00:40:00.54
who motivates
you into what you do
00:40:00.57\00:40:02.69
because of His love for you?
00:40:02.72\00:40:04.26
How do you change over to that?
00:40:04.29\00:40:08.10
You know, for me I
think what it's been
00:40:08.13\00:40:10.48
is that everyday now,
00:40:10.51\00:40:15.27
I'm taking everything
to Him and asking Him,
00:40:15.30\00:40:19.72
what am I doing,
what do you see inside?
00:40:19.75\00:40:22.82
Show me what you see?
00:40:22.85\00:40:24.74
And He does and that if--
00:40:24.77\00:40:28.96
like going for a walk
with Him every morning
00:40:28.99\00:40:32.50
and taking those things to Him
00:40:32.53\00:40:34.06
and things I back
with, by the end of my walk,
00:40:34.09\00:40:36.53
I sometimes come back in
tears because He is so kind,
00:40:36.56\00:40:40.47
but He is so
deep at what He shows
00:40:40.50\00:40:42.54
and so right on and
I'm learning to love Him
00:40:42.57\00:40:48.56
and feel to His love just
by communicating with Him.
00:40:48.59\00:40:52.42
That's how it's working for me.
00:40:52.45\00:40:54.01
I got to tell you Karen,
00:40:54.04\00:40:55.07
to you is there
is something else
00:40:55.10\00:40:56.16
that I have seen
along this journey
00:40:56.19\00:40:57.23
because I have gotten
00:40:57.26\00:40:58.29
to be a part of
the journey with Fran,
00:40:58.32\00:41:00.79
is that she has been vulnerable
and shared it with us.
00:41:00.82\00:41:05.41
They shared-- she
shared it with the people
00:41:05.44\00:41:07.13
that she loves at
church, has kind of opened up.
00:41:07.16\00:41:10.42
And so now when I say, oh, man,
00:41:10.45\00:41:13.43
because she is just
changed, she is brilliant.
00:41:13.46\00:41:16.36
We will have a project
and the project is great
00:41:16.39\00:41:20.49
and she steps in
and does a few things
00:41:20.52\00:41:22.99
and it's not only
great it's brilliant,
00:41:23.02\00:41:24.62
it's off the chart.
00:41:24.65\00:41:26.05
And I'll say great job.
00:41:26.08\00:41:27.66
And someone will say
that's like handing her a joint.
00:41:27.69\00:41:30.24
That's like giving
her some pot, you know.
00:41:30.27\00:41:32.47
It's like don't
tell her great job,
00:41:32.50\00:41:33.91
she a workaholic.
00:41:33.94\00:41:35.15
And so but it
actually come out almost
00:41:35.18\00:41:38.58
as a, a little bit of a joke
00:41:38.61\00:41:40.26
that we are we are
allowed into her space,
00:41:40.29\00:41:43.54
we are allowed in
to that part of her
00:41:43.57\00:41:46.10
and I don't know if it
helps you to know that,
00:41:46.13\00:41:50.25
you know, we can
joke around about it,
00:41:50.28\00:41:51.67
you're okay nobody
is moving away from you.
00:41:51.70\00:41:53.95
Yeah, and what
you're reference to
00:41:53.98\00:41:55.72
I think also is our
Bible study group at church,
00:41:55.75\00:41:58.68
we've been-- this is
been really important
00:41:58.71\00:42:01.86
and I think it's
really relevant topic about
00:42:01.89\00:42:04.08
social support that,
this Bible study group
00:42:04.11\00:42:07.78
we are going through
that inside out book together
00:42:07.81\00:42:11.53
and its no but no teacher
00:42:11.56\00:42:14.37
so I don't come to
class with lesson plan anymore
00:42:14.40\00:42:16.77
with all my research done
00:42:16.80\00:42:18.27
and ready to teach
everyone, we don't do that.
00:42:18.30\00:42:21.23
We come and we just
share venerably and--
00:42:21.26\00:42:25.49
We have people that join
us online all over the world.
00:42:25.52\00:42:28.58
Yeah, even-- yeah,
00:42:28.61\00:42:29.64
And for--
00:42:29.67\00:42:30.70
for you they come without
a lesson plan that is huge.
00:42:30.73\00:42:34.33
I never do that,
I'm never, not prepared.
00:42:34.36\00:42:37.06
I'm here with no script
today which is also big.
00:42:37.09\00:42:40.56
No script.
00:42:40.59\00:42:41.63
No script and what
was really funny to me
00:42:41.66\00:42:44.06
cracked me up,
she sent me a script,
00:42:44.09\00:42:46.78
you know, you hear some
stuff what do you thinking?
00:42:46.81\00:42:49.47
And today she comes and
she says did you read it?
00:42:49.50\00:42:53.37
I say, no.
00:42:53.40\00:42:54.92
She is like you
didn't even read it?
00:42:54.95\00:42:56.84
And so it is really funny
00:42:56.87\00:42:58.41
'cause God is
pressing in all kind of areas.
00:42:58.44\00:43:01.48
Yeah, and it's really been good
00:43:01.51\00:43:03.12
because the
thing I'm discovering
00:43:03.15\00:43:04.95
is that I really
need the other people--
00:43:04.98\00:43:07.85
whole healing thing
happens when we share
00:43:07.88\00:43:10.28
and we need Him working
00:43:10.31\00:43:13.10
and that happens in
communities it seems.
00:43:13.13\00:43:16.12
And with performance addictions,
00:43:16.15\00:43:18.04
with approval
addiction, one other the things
00:43:18.07\00:43:20.44
that I think that
God is able to show
00:43:20.47\00:43:23.04
is that you are delightful.
00:43:23.07\00:43:24.98
You know, what
I mean from prom--
00:43:25.01\00:43:26.11
Even if I'm not prepared.
00:43:26.14\00:43:27.24
Even if you're not prepared
or even if I'm not in-charge
00:43:27.27\00:43:29.88
or even if don't know
the answer you're delightful
00:43:29.91\00:43:32.69
and the people around
you enjoy that about you.
00:43:32.72\00:43:35.47
So I think that in our--
00:43:35.50\00:43:36.54
and the healing part of
it is first being vulnerable,
00:43:36.57\00:43:39.75
saying it out load to somebody
to God in a twelve-step to God
00:43:39.78\00:43:43.38
and then another human being
that this is what I deal with
00:43:43.41\00:43:46.79
and these performance addictions
00:43:46.82\00:43:49.04
are harder to say out lot
00:43:49.07\00:43:50.33
because we want to say
an addict wants to say,
00:43:50.36\00:43:52.32
oh, get over it.
00:43:52.35\00:43:53.40
You're like fine.
00:43:53.43\00:43:54.57
That only-- have
you ever even lied?
00:43:54.60\00:43:56.18
You know, we want
to do that to you,
00:43:56.21\00:43:57.82
don't let us do that to you.
00:43:57.85\00:43:59.74
This is a really
intense deep heart issue.
00:43:59.77\00:44:04.13
It has protected
you for a long time
00:44:04.16\00:44:06.14
to the
determinant of your intimate--
00:44:06.17\00:44:08.56
intimacy with those around you
and God misses you, misses you.
00:44:08.59\00:44:13.57
You don't have
to perform for Him.
00:44:13.60\00:44:15.62
So I have to tell
you what God told me
00:44:15.65\00:44:18.57
the other day when I
went walking with Him.
00:44:18.60\00:44:21.14
So I asked Him, how do
I see more of Your love?
00:44:21.17\00:44:27.08
And immediately the
answer was, look at people.
00:44:27.11\00:44:32.06
And so I'm asking Him well why?
00:44:32.09\00:44:34.86
And He says, look in
their eyes and see the pain.
00:44:34.89\00:44:40.72
Don't dissenter
yourself from that.
00:44:44.16\00:44:47.52
What's really interesting
is in the Bible study
00:44:47.55\00:44:50.37
that you run now,
there were some tragedies
00:44:50.40\00:44:54.22
that happened there
00:44:54.25\00:44:55.48
and you step in
more real into the room.
00:44:55.51\00:44:59.17
Yeah, one of our girls
struggled with anger, drugs,
00:44:59.20\00:45:06.04
she had been abused as a child
00:45:06.07\00:45:07.63
and she took her own
life a few months ago
00:45:07.66\00:45:11.76
and its been terribly
difficult for the whole group
00:45:11.79\00:45:17.18
and we have others
that are really struggling
00:45:17.21\00:45:20.25
that seems to be
contagious I don't know,
00:45:20.28\00:45:22.60
but that just downwards
spirals amongst the group.
00:45:22.63\00:45:27.93
And at that point--
that because I know the way
00:45:27.96\00:45:30.82
you're dealing with as
far as your own addictive
00:45:30.85\00:45:34.04
response to pain is that they--
00:45:34.07\00:45:36.78
that you weren't
willing to go back to that
00:45:36.81\00:45:39.01
and just get more
prepared and walk in the group.
00:45:39.04\00:45:41.51
You wanted to be more
real in walking the group.
00:45:41.54\00:45:43.90
So you really did say God,
00:45:43.93\00:45:46.10
"That I'm not on
familiar ground here
00:45:46.13\00:45:49.20
but help me to walk in,
00:45:49.23\00:45:50.90
give something
to actually offer."
00:45:50.93\00:45:52.46
Yeah, everything now
feels that way to me.
00:45:52.49\00:45:55.00
I feel like I'm
instead of coming
00:45:55.03\00:45:59.06
prepared with tons of research
00:45:59.09\00:46:00.49
I'm coming with
my heart wide open.
00:46:00.52\00:46:03.83
I love that, you know,
because I-- it's different
00:46:03.86\00:46:07.38
but I think that
that we actually get
00:46:07.41\00:46:09.96
to hangout with
you in a better way
00:46:09.99\00:46:13.89
and even though your
preparation is genius.
00:46:13.92\00:46:16.30
Yeah. I love that too.
00:46:16.33\00:46:17.44
So I'm now--
Bob, this Bob McKain,
00:46:17.47\00:46:21.67
married to Fran
and you had a question?
00:46:21.70\00:46:25.87
So you know the thing
00:46:25.90\00:46:26.93
that we used to
say about Fran is that,
00:46:26.96\00:46:28.52
you know, she is
practically perfect
00:46:28.55\00:46:30.66
and you know, living
with her all the time,
00:46:30.69\00:46:32.79
you know, the one thing
I just have to ask is that,
00:46:32.86\00:46:34.75
you know, see is that you know,
00:46:34.78\00:46:36.64
she is still
engages in the workaholism.
00:46:36.67\00:46:40.22
You know, it just-- it
didn't like just go away.
00:46:40.25\00:46:43.12
So, you know, how
you're dealing with that?
00:46:43.15\00:46:46.98
Yeah, you know-- And
this is from your husband.
00:46:47.01\00:46:49.22
Yeah, it's really
true that sort of like
00:46:49.25\00:46:51.15
asking Cheri was
still doing heroin hits.
00:46:51.18\00:46:53.74
Because it's really true.
00:46:53.77\00:46:54.80
I mean even working
on these books to me
00:46:54.83\00:46:57.22
was a huge challenge
00:46:57.25\00:47:00.23
because dead lines were looming
00:47:00.26\00:47:03.24
and I mean it was
80 hours a week or more
00:47:03.27\00:47:06.75
to get those books finished.
00:47:06.78\00:47:08.47
Well, you know, that's
definitely my addiction.
00:47:08.50\00:47:11.96
So what I love
and like what you said
00:47:11.99\00:47:14.57
you're in the
middle of the process,
00:47:14.60\00:47:15.77
so in the middle of the process
00:47:15.80\00:47:17.05
it's like I think
that you will see--
00:47:17.08\00:47:19.27
you'll begin to
even set boundaries on us
00:47:19.30\00:47:21.63
and deadlines and
that kind of stuff,
00:47:21.66\00:47:23.45
hopefully not this week
00:47:23.48\00:47:26.26
because you know,
we have some deadlines.
00:47:26.29\00:47:28.24
Like I had two
hours of sleep last night.
00:47:28.27\00:47:30.11
I know, but what's really hard
00:47:30.14\00:47:32.53
I think for you more so
than me as people understand
00:47:32.56\00:47:35.22
when I say oh, I can't drink,
00:47:35.25\00:47:36.28
I can't use and I can't do drugs
00:47:36.31\00:47:38.33
but with you when they said
you can't finish their project,
00:47:38.36\00:47:41.88
they not gonna
understand this much.
00:47:41.91\00:47:43.33
So I think it's a
little bit tougher
00:47:43.36\00:47:45.10
with an approval or
performance addiction
00:47:45.13\00:47:47.63
because, everybody
wants you to do it.
00:47:47.66\00:47:52.68
It is, it's
true and I'm actually
00:47:52.71\00:47:54.68
even working with
the counselor right now,
00:47:54.71\00:47:56.60
to try get deeper into,
why do I keep doing this?
00:47:56.63\00:47:59.58
Yeah.
00:47:59.61\00:48:00.69
You know, its not-- I think
there is approval addiction
00:48:00.72\00:48:04.56
is definitely a piece of it
and I can see the roots of that
00:48:04.59\00:48:07.54
but I'm also
learning that I have a problem
00:48:07.57\00:48:10.52
setting
boundaries for myself inside.
00:48:10.55\00:48:12.59
Exactly. Inside boundaries.
00:48:12.62\00:48:14.29
Shut the computer off
at nine and go to bed.
00:48:14.32\00:48:16.87
Right.
00:48:16.90\00:48:17.93
What's-- we're gonna ahead
and take a break and come back
00:48:17.96\00:48:21.04
and I want to ask you a
couple questions about that
00:48:21.07\00:48:23.67
if you would join me for
the close that would be great.
00:48:23.70\00:48:27.03
But ask you a
couple questions about that
00:48:27.06\00:48:28.72
because this is a
tough one to switchover
00:48:28.75\00:48:32.76
and I want to ask
you, why-- why even do it?
00:48:32.79\00:48:36.38
And it's a lot of work.
00:48:36.41\00:48:37.59
And so we're gonna come back,
00:48:37.62\00:48:38.71
if you have one of
these approval addictions
00:48:38.74\00:48:40.78
or performance additions
know that God misses you
00:48:40.81\00:48:44.40
and you can set boundaries
00:48:44.43\00:48:45.82
and you can do all
that kind of stuff.
00:48:45.85\00:48:47.78
Join us for the
close because I think that
00:48:47.81\00:48:50.96
well, Fran has to say
about why work so hard
00:48:50.99\00:48:53.25
it's gonna be good stuff.
00:48:53.28\00:48:55.00