The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome back.
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You know, I
want to introduce you
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to a friend of
mine, Wayne Blakely.
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He has a ministry
called 'Coming Out' Ministries.
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And Wayne, we've had
you on the program before.
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I don't know if
I ever talked about
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just the journey over the years
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and all of the sudden
your whole perspective
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becomes different on
what you've gone through,
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what you want to say
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and how you're gonna
step out in ministry.
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And so I want you to
take us back to the beginning.
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You shared it before so we're
not going to cover it too much
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but then what is
your journey look like
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and can you relate to anything
that I just talked about?
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Absolutely.
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You know I have to touch first
a little bit on that brokenness
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and the different things that
you are receiving from both,
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your mother and from your father
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and your
experiences and your childhood
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have a lot to do
with how my beginning was.
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And that was
basically the people
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that were around
my natural mother
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during her
pregnancy over heard her
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or they would ask her you know,
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you are gonna have a boy
or you're going to have a girl
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and she's like,
absolutely having a girl,
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there's no way
I am having a boy.
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And she said that over
and over and over again.
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She was very adamant about it.
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And so when she had me,
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imagine, you know
she was disappointed,
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she was grief stricken,
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there was no
bonding and so in that
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she still
wanted me to be a girl.
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And we were on an air force base
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and so my father was gone
most of the time on assignments
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and he would come home
and the neighbors would say,
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we think that
your son's being abused
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and he will be like,
well, mind your business.
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I think you are just
being nosey neighbors.
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And what they found
was he came home one time
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from an assignment and
found my arm in a sling
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before I was two years old
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and come to find out
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my mother had broken
my arm in two places.
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So when, you know,
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when you talk about
your background sometimes
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and I think that what people say
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is just her
disappointment of having a boy
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but she was
enraged by having a boy.
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Literally violent,
taking it out on you.
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I don't want to touch this
kid, feed this kid or whatever.
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And people were
trying to protect you
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but you and her were
the only ones in the home.
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Right. Right.
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And so it really to
mind for a lot of people
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right away that question,
oh, can you be born gay?
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And I am telling you,
absolute, because of the set up.
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You look at the
pre-natal experience that--
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First of all, are you gay?
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I am sorry. I am
like, really, is that--
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We have to finish
the interview, Cheri.
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I'm sorry. Let's do it.
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No, I am
kidding. But not anymore.
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Yeah.
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What so-- what's
really interesting
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is that even with
that kind of things
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that you were saying that
I think because of her anger,
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her rejection, all of that stuff
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is that from day one I
defiantly wanted a girl.
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Yeah.
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I was set up and then,
you know, just most recently,
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and I even talked
to you little bit about
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it was the absentee father.
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So I have the
abuse by the mother
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who is not making me want to go,
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move towards a
woman for affection
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and then I have
an absentee father
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who's never there,
he's never on the base,
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so it's almost like
being a single parent.
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But the only thing I
can began to identify
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some kind of safety with
this maybe perhaps a male,
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when I come in
contact with a male
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I knew very young
that I was attracted to men
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probably because of the
abuse coming from my mother.
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I so didn't want
to be around women,
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they were not safe?
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Right, right.
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So in my earliest years
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I began to find
myself drawn to men
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and wanting to be affirmed
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and I wanted
warmth and I wanted love.
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I come to find out here
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when we are born there's
three things that we all want.
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We want to be loved,
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and we want to
belong, and we want to matter.
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And I didn't feel like--
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Any of those. Any of those.
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And you know, like I just cringe
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because I know some
people watching the program
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are gonna say, I don't
want to deal with gay issues.
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This is not
primarily a gay issue.
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This is a child that
just never got to be safe.
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It's a love issue.
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And you know, like I--
because you are my friend
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I've heard you talk
about even your dad,
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you were very protecting of him,
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you really having
dealt a lot with that issue
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yet about him
being gone and you know,
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just like even
saying that you know,
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you never had the chance
of laying on somebody's chest
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and just being
held even as an infant.
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I sort of saw him I
guess as I look at back at her
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and trying to digest it all
now about dealing with them--
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I dealt with the
female aspect of it.
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Now the male
aspect, in some ways
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I saw him as my savior
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because he saw the
abuse that was taking place
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and put me up for adoption
by my aunt and my uncle.
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But it masked the fact
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that I really needed
to have connected to him.
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Exactly.
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And had not and did not
even after the adoption?
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Right. Yeah, to some degree.
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I saw him every couple
of summers or something
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but he was very withdrawn,
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very quiet, it
wasn't-- I might as well be--
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he might as well have been
an uncle and not my father.
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Right.
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So you then jump
out into a lifestyle,
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not only a lifestyle because
you did get pretty twisted.
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I did.
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And so you know,
we talked about that,
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jumped into prostitution,
did all kind of stuffs and--
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but this how can I want
to say on, you find Christ.
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So bring us to that
point and then the ministry
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and what is your passion today?
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We're talking about integrity,
we're talking about change,
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we're talking
about a maintaining.
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How do you maintain your--
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not sobriety but your
absent your lifestyle?
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Yeah.
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Well, when I finally
came back in touch with God
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or when I really got in touch
with God for the first time
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He brought a lot
of things to my mind.
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You know, I was
sitting in my bedroom
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in front of my computer
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and I was contemplating the fact
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that all of my gay
friends were dead now,
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every last one of them.
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And God said to me,
so can you hear Me now?
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And He also began to
reveal a lot of things to me
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and He says,
you know what Wayne,
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you've put a lot on Me.
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You blamed Me for your hurt,
you blamed Me for your pain,
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you blamed Me for the
dysfunction in your life
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that you turned out this way.
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You've laid all that on
Me but really do you know Me?
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Because you haven't really
come to My love letter to you.
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You haven't immersed
yourself in the Word of God
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and you haven't spend
time with Me in prayer
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and maybe you've been praying
for the wrong things like,
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I want to give you
all the best for your life
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because you're best
interest are in My heart
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but your prayer was,
please, God, make me straight.
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And Wayne, it wasn't
about making you straight,
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it was about building
an intimate relationship
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with Me as your father.
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And loving you. And loving you.
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And then realizing
that it is possible
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that at some point
in your walk with Me
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I might put in front of you
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the one woman, the one woman.
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I am not asking
you to fall in love
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with the entire
female population
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but in your walk with
Me as you begin to trust Me
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and know Me that I
only want the best for you,
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I have gifts lined up
for you along the way.
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Amen.
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And so I invited Him in
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and I said, I don't
know how you can take me
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knowing where I've been
and I've been in the gutter,
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you know, I've done
every drug that I knew about.
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I had slept with every man
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that was
willing to sleep with me
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and looking for love
in all the wrong places.
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Even if I had landed on one man
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as monogamous relationship
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and been happy in that
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it still wouldn't have
been what God's plan for me was.
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So the enemy doesn't
care how he can you know,
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get the deception across as
long as he can get us across.
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And so in coming back to Christ
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I had to begin
to recognize slowly
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but surely what
God's plan for me is,
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what is that walk like today?
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And I came back into
a spiritual environment,
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a Christian environment
in a great state of adversity
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you know, because
the church leaders,
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the congregational members
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they had all these
expectations of me that I had,
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had on me before I
walked away from the church.
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In what sense, because you know,
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I am gonna assume I know
what you are talking about
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but I don't want to
assume in your sense.
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Like when I am baptized
and I go under the water gay,
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that I come up straight.
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That I immediately have
an erotic desire for women.
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That I am going to marry,
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that that's gonna make me
acceptable to Jesus Christ
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that threw something
like reparative therapy.
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If they can make
me feel the things
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that I felt towards a man
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and fell it towards a
woman that, that will fix me.
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Or what if it did?
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And I started chasing all
the women that I can find.
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And sleeping with all of them?
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Sure. So, now
let's not think of me.
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Because we-- and I love,
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I love that what you are saying
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because we're
talking about integrity
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and we're
talking about who we are,
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and we get lost in the issue,
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whatever the
hot button issue is.
00:09:36.81\00:09:38.92
What God is
saying, you know what,
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it is bigger than any issue
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is that I've got this
kid that has been rejected
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even in the womb pretty much
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and defiantly all
his life was then adopted
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then in the
lifestyle that just beat him up
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and he beat others up
and then all the sudden
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now I am trying to literally
show who I am, who he is,
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and we're trying to
make it about an issue.
00:10:00.48\00:10:02.20
And God is just like, man.
00:10:02.23\00:10:04.28
Yeah, you know, I
sometimes I am accused
00:10:04.31\00:10:07.38
of not being an
advocate for gays
00:10:07.41\00:10:09.66
and I am thinking you know,
00:10:09.69\00:10:11.21
I am one of the
biggest advocate for gays
00:10:11.24\00:10:13.69
that I know and that I
want to help them come back
00:10:13.72\00:10:17.32
and give God another chance.
00:10:17.35\00:10:19.47
That they got
alienated, they got ostracized,
00:10:19.50\00:10:23.09
they got shut out by
people who were ignorant.
00:10:23.12\00:10:25.86
And in their ignorant did
some terrible, terrible things.
00:10:25.89\00:10:29.03
I was victim of
some of those things.
00:10:29.06\00:10:31.63
So example, not
that we need examples,
00:10:31.66\00:10:34.17
I am not trying
to beat anybody up
00:10:34.20\00:10:35.46
but what's an
example of what happened
00:10:35.49\00:10:38.00
because God has worked
on you for a long time,
00:10:38.03\00:10:40.58
coming into a
spiritual environment
00:10:40.61\00:10:42.93
or to a healthier environment
00:10:42.96\00:10:44.23
and somebody says or does what?
00:10:44.26\00:10:48.43
They say something--
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well, one of the first things
that were said to me was that,
00:10:50.35\00:10:52.75
I don't know that your
testimonies will be good
00:10:52.78\00:10:55.64
until three to
ten years from now.
00:10:55.67\00:10:57.86
And that really hurt me
00:10:57.89\00:11:00.65
when I was coming back to Christ
00:11:00.68\00:11:02.09
because from what I
previously known about God
00:11:02.12\00:11:04.91
because I had Christian
parents that adopted me
00:11:04.94\00:11:08.14
and the studies that I
had done as a kid was that I--
00:11:08.17\00:11:12.08
from what I found in God's word
00:11:12.11\00:11:13.98
is my testimony
was as good as the day
00:11:14.01\00:11:16.18
as I accepted Jesus Christ
which would have been the same
00:11:16.21\00:11:19.54
for like Mary Magdalene.
00:11:19.57\00:11:21.70
But because of your background
00:11:21.73\00:11:23.05
is they want to
make sure you don't fall,
00:11:23.08\00:11:24.60
you don't get
tempted, you don't do anything
00:11:24.63\00:11:26.31
before you could say anything.
00:11:26.34\00:11:27.81
They don't require that from me
00:11:27.84\00:11:29.04
but they're gonna
require that from you.
00:11:29.07\00:11:30.37
And I get the--
00:11:30.40\00:11:31.48
Because when he says,
have you ever been tempted,
00:11:31.51\00:11:33.57
your response is what?
00:11:33.60\00:11:36.05
It's one of the
favorite questions
00:11:36.08\00:11:38.55
that I like in
our Q and A today.
00:11:38.58\00:11:41.80
I am asked that
question quite frequently
00:11:41.83\00:11:44.58
and I guess I've
learned almost enjoying
00:11:44.61\00:11:47.31
my response and
that is, are you?
00:11:47.34\00:11:49.74
Are you tempted?
00:11:49.77\00:11:50.80
Because why would God
take my temptations away
00:11:50.83\00:11:53.80
and not take your's away?
00:11:53.83\00:11:56.38
And how can you
judge me so harshly,
00:11:56.41\00:11:58.13
I am just trying to stand? Yeah.
00:11:58.16\00:12:00.19
I think that
because we put this issue,
00:12:00.22\00:12:03.32
this thing that we refuse
to talk about in Christianity
00:12:03.35\00:12:07.22
for so many years,
00:12:07.25\00:12:08.41
the thing that you don't
talk about get's the crown.
00:12:08.44\00:12:12.43
And so it became, you
know, the focus of like,
00:12:12.46\00:12:16.16
how could you possibly?
00:12:16.19\00:12:18.50
Where as when you're doing
00:12:18.53\00:12:19.96
something like
there's a lot of other things
00:12:19.99\00:12:21.73
that either
have gotten whitewash
00:12:21.76\00:12:23.41
or they are covered
up and still other things
00:12:23.44\00:12:25.34
that we don't talk about today.
00:12:25.37\00:12:27.26
And the fact of the matter
is that there's not any sin
00:12:27.29\00:12:30.37
that's not
repulsive to Jesus Christ.
00:12:30.40\00:12:33.38
So it doesn't
matter what I suffer today
00:12:33.41\00:12:35.20
and I find that when I speak
in churches and schools today
00:12:35.23\00:12:39.04
that when I began to
talk about temptation
00:12:39.07\00:12:43.06
that I start hitting
some nerves with people
00:12:43.09\00:12:45.87
because they-- whether it's diet
00:12:45.90\00:12:47.76
or whether it's
pornography, adultery,
00:12:47.79\00:12:51.36
same-sex attraction, no matter--
00:12:51.39\00:12:52.48
Religions
addiction. Religions addiction.
00:12:52.51\00:12:54.70
Workaholism.
00:12:54.73\00:12:55.86
Yes, no matter what it is.
00:12:55.89\00:12:58.28
If it's something
that there's a barrier
00:12:58.31\00:13:00.84
between you and
your real relationship
00:13:00.87\00:13:03.71
that's offered to
you by Jesus Christ
00:13:03.74\00:13:05.86
you know, it's an atrocity.
00:13:05.89\00:13:08.09
You know it's something
that we need to examine.
00:13:08.12\00:13:10.22
James 5:16 tells
us to come together
00:13:10.25\00:13:13.64
and confess our
sins one to another
00:13:13.67\00:13:15.47
and pray for each other
00:13:15.50\00:13:16.86
for the healing
that is promised.
00:13:16.89\00:13:19.18
And the enemy, you know,
00:13:19.21\00:13:20.62
Satan is trying to hold
this away from doing that.
00:13:20.65\00:13:22.98
And today it is about community,
00:13:23.01\00:13:24.88
it is about a love message,
00:13:24.91\00:13:26.37
but it's not
about the love message
00:13:26.40\00:13:27.96
from like the
flower powered era,
00:13:27.99\00:13:31.78
you know, there are
things out there today
00:13:31.81\00:13:33.94
that are telling
people that you are okay
00:13:33.97\00:13:35.68
just the way you are.
00:13:35.71\00:13:36.94
You know, there's a
film out there today,
00:13:36.97\00:13:39.65
a film called
Seventh-Gay Adventist
00:13:39.68\00:13:42.12
that is saying you know,
00:13:42.15\00:13:43.46
it pains me because
when I watch this film
00:13:43.49\00:13:46.16
I see three same sex
couples accept themselves
00:13:46.19\00:13:50.90
for who they are
and say Jesus love me
00:13:50.93\00:13:53.48
just the way I am,
so you love me too.
00:13:53.51\00:13:57.09
And there's so
much truth to that.
00:13:57.12\00:13:59.24
Jesus does love you
just the way you are
00:13:59.27\00:14:02.70
but He doesn't
want to leave you there.
00:14:02.73\00:14:05.10
And so it's about an intimate
walk with Jesus Christ today
00:14:05.13\00:14:08.34
and finding out
what's His plan for me is.
00:14:08.37\00:14:10.98
And if I settled
for what my feeling were
00:14:11.01\00:14:14.84
I would be robbing
myself from a relationship
00:14:14.87\00:14:17.57
that I can have
with Jesus Christ.
00:14:17.60\00:14:18.91
Because you are saying
that He's capable of taking us
00:14:18.94\00:14:21.68
further than
that in our healing?
00:14:21.71\00:14:23.38
Absolutely.
00:14:23.41\00:14:24.88
And as we settle--
00:14:24.91\00:14:25.96
because we're settling
this for as far as especially
00:14:25.99\00:14:27.92
our sexuality is like you know,
00:14:27.95\00:14:31.08
we are saying that,
00:14:31.11\00:14:32.61
you know, people
should be ordained
00:14:32.64\00:14:36.00
that are same-sex, defiantly
accepted in the church,
00:14:36.03\00:14:39.55
monogamous relationship,
00:14:39.58\00:14:40.78
marriage and all
that kind of stuff.
00:14:40.81\00:14:42.25
And what's really sad for me
00:14:42.28\00:14:43.76
because to get into those issues
00:14:43.79\00:14:45.44
because I know I have friends
that struggled with this stuff.
00:14:45.47\00:14:49.00
And so I don't want to--
00:14:49.03\00:14:50.58
I want to say to the
people that I love is man,
00:14:50.61\00:14:53.52
that I am glad it's not my issue
00:14:53.55\00:14:56.07
because those
are very core issues,
00:14:56.10\00:14:57.57
that's who we
are, it's our identity
00:14:57.60\00:14:59.48
and so being able to literally
trust God with our journey.
00:14:59.51\00:15:02.76
Right.
00:15:02.79\00:15:04.27
You know, I just believe that
00:15:04.30\00:15:08.07
here's God's word's
is to us for all time.
00:15:08.10\00:15:11.79
He says He's the same yesterday,
00:15:11.82\00:15:13.94
today and tomorrow.
00:15:13.97\00:15:15.47
I don't believe
that God is a tricky God,
00:15:15.50\00:15:17.41
that He's gonna withhold from us
00:15:17.44\00:15:19.97
permissions to
follow our feeling.
00:15:20.00\00:15:22.31
If it were okay for me
to have this kind of love,
00:15:22.34\00:15:25.64
the kind of love you
have for your husband,
00:15:25.67\00:15:27.95
if that was the kind of love
00:15:27.98\00:15:29.35
I should be able to
have for another same-sex
00:15:29.38\00:15:32.81
attracted individual
it wouldn't be fair for me
00:15:32.84\00:15:36.55
if God wasn't going
to tell me about that
00:15:36.58\00:15:38.61
and then just maybe surprise me
00:15:38.64\00:15:40.11
at His second coming and say,
00:15:40.14\00:15:41.42
oh, you could had that
relationship all along.
00:15:41.45\00:15:43.99
He's not a tricky God,
00:15:44.02\00:15:45.33
He loves us so much
but let's dig into that
00:15:45.36\00:15:48.35
and find out what is that love.
00:15:48.38\00:15:50.93
And what if God is
calling me to celibacy
00:15:50.96\00:15:53.53
same as He would for a
heterosexual individual
00:15:53.56\00:15:56.14
who haven't found a
husband or a wife yet.
00:15:56.17\00:16:00.01
Is it worth it--
00:16:00.04\00:16:02.23
is it worth it to
fall in love with Him
00:16:02.26\00:16:04.27
and no more
intimately Jesus Christ
00:16:04.30\00:16:06.69
and His plan for me
00:16:06.72\00:16:08.15
or is that my choice to go ahead
00:16:08.18\00:16:11.20
and settle for
what feel best to me
00:16:11.23\00:16:13.45
and the sacrifice eternity.
00:16:13.48\00:16:16.59
Amen.
00:16:16.62\00:16:18.36
So now I am gonna
ask you because you know,
00:16:18.39\00:16:20.64
even for somebody that
is single and choosing--
00:16:20.67\00:16:25.51
to try to do it with
the right way in relation
00:16:25.54\00:16:28.01
and all that kind of stuff
00:16:28.04\00:16:29.07
as we are
talking about integrity
00:16:29.10\00:16:30.89
and how to
maintain our recovery.
00:16:30.92\00:16:32.60
And so maintenance, I mean,
00:16:32.63\00:16:34.53
when you step out
of a whole lifestyle
00:16:34.56\00:16:36.66
and you step out of
you know the relationship
00:16:36.69\00:16:39.80
that you had and the way
00:16:39.83\00:16:41.56
that you learned to
receive love or give love
00:16:41.59\00:16:45.54
you know, what
does that look like?
00:16:45.57\00:16:48.58
It looks like this,
00:16:48.61\00:16:50.30
when I am
tempted it's a reminder
00:16:50.33\00:16:53.17
that this is a
cross that I carry
00:16:53.20\00:16:55.01
because every one of us
are born with a fallen nature
00:16:55.04\00:16:59.43
that Satan has tried to
impose a bunch of lies on us.
00:16:59.46\00:17:03.17
His first lie to me
was of being unwanted
00:17:03.20\00:17:06.57
and Jesus is
constantly saying to me,
00:17:06.60\00:17:08.48
but you are wanted,
00:17:08.51\00:17:09.58
you are loved and you do belong
00:17:09.61\00:17:11.69
and you can't keep going this
way to get affirmation on that
00:17:11.72\00:17:16.02
because people
might let you down
00:17:16.05\00:17:17.52
and have let you down
00:17:17.55\00:17:19.18
when you thought
they did love you.
00:17:19.21\00:17:21.34
It's about this relationship
00:17:21.37\00:17:23.56
and that's the
only one that saves.
00:17:23.59\00:17:25.87
And the only way I am
gonna have that relationship
00:17:25.90\00:17:28.48
is if I am spending any
kind of quality time with Him.
00:17:28.51\00:17:32.18
Amen.
00:17:32.21\00:17:33.60
But I am seeing you
also develop friendships
00:17:33.63\00:17:36.95
so that you really get to laugh
00:17:36.98\00:17:39.17
with somebody in a healthy way.
00:17:39.20\00:17:40.62
So you know, and I know that now
00:17:40.65\00:17:43.04
we had Michael on the show
and you guys are good friend.
00:17:43.07\00:17:47.19
You know, I am
praying that you and I
00:17:47.22\00:17:49.45
become better
and better friends.
00:17:49.48\00:17:50.81
You know whatever--
00:17:50.84\00:17:51.92
because every
time we were together
00:17:51.95\00:17:53.07
I just realize
that I really do--
00:17:53.10\00:17:55.81
I mean, I am just like you.
00:17:55.84\00:17:57.25
I liked who you
are and your journey
00:17:57.28\00:17:59.04
and all that kind of stuff.
00:17:59.07\00:18:00.12
So you really need to
start developing those things
00:18:00.15\00:18:02.94
so that you can have some flesh.
00:18:02.97\00:18:04.55
Right.
00:18:04.58\00:18:05.67
Well, God wants
us to have community,
00:18:05.70\00:18:08.08
He wants us to be--
00:18:08.11\00:18:09.19
well, He created us to be
relative with one another.
00:18:09.22\00:18:11.96
And He think as all--
00:18:11.99\00:18:13.27
as long as it
continues to bring Him glory
00:18:13.30\00:18:16.82
that that's who He
would have as you know,
00:18:16.85\00:18:19.45
get a grounding with.
00:18:19.48\00:18:22.65
You know, coming
together and studying together,
00:18:22.68\00:18:24.65
sharing what-- you know,
00:18:24.68\00:18:25.95
Mike has shared with me
things that he's learned.
00:18:25.98\00:18:27.98
I look to him and listen
to him a lot about his walk
00:18:28.01\00:18:31.07
and the things
that He has studied out,
00:18:31.10\00:18:32.78
the influences that
God has given to him
00:18:32.81\00:18:35.73
and God has given
me different ones.
00:18:35.76\00:18:37.68
My ministry is
more to congregations
00:18:37.71\00:18:40.36
and to church leadership
and Mike has a unique ability
00:18:40.39\00:18:45.08
to be able to reach
out to all kinds of people,
00:18:45.11\00:18:47.47
mainly towards you know,
youth and just has you know,
00:18:47.50\00:18:51.20
a real spirit of being
able to communicate with others,
00:18:51.23\00:18:53.73
you know, really well.
00:18:53.76\00:18:54.79
So one of the things that you do
00:18:54.82\00:18:56.09
as first is your
own recovery maintenance
00:18:56.12\00:18:57.53
is connection
with another people.
00:18:57.56\00:18:59.40
The accountability.
00:18:59.43\00:19:00.76
Accountability.
00:19:00.79\00:19:02.11
What does that mean exactly?
00:19:02.14\00:19:03.17
Because somebody will say,
00:19:03.20\00:19:04.24
accountability,
what does that mean?
00:19:04.27\00:19:05.55
Accountability to me is
being honest with one another.
00:19:05.58\00:19:09.40
I am honest-- If I
get on the phone with Mike
00:19:09.43\00:19:12.61
and he knows you know,
00:19:12.64\00:19:13.89
he'll get calls out
of the blue sometimes
00:19:13.92\00:19:16.04
and I say, you know I am
really struggling with this
00:19:16.07\00:19:18.56
or if he maybe hasn't
heard from me for a bit
00:19:18.59\00:19:20.81
he might call me and say,
00:19:20.84\00:19:21.89
you know, I haven't
heard from you for a while,
00:19:21.92\00:19:23.99
you know, what's going on?
00:19:24.02\00:19:25.28
You know, you are just
been busy with ministry
00:19:25.31\00:19:27.04
or you know, what kinds of
issues are you dealing with.
00:19:27.07\00:19:30.44
I have a small
community group in my church
00:19:30.47\00:19:33.40
which I've been part
of for the last four years
00:19:33.43\00:19:36.13
and they know the
ins and outs of my life,
00:19:36.16\00:19:38.13
they keep tabs
on me, they call me,
00:19:38.16\00:19:39.99
I call them, we pray together,
00:19:40.02\00:19:42.25
they support me,
it's very beautiful
00:19:42.28\00:19:45.58
but yet the integrity is so key
00:19:45.61\00:19:49.23
and so important
because people can get the idea
00:19:49.26\00:19:52.79
that I am like fixed, you know.
00:19:52.82\00:19:55.21
And I am still broken.
00:19:55.24\00:19:57.35
You know, and I
guess even at the beginning
00:19:57.38\00:19:59.65
when I say that it's like
whenever we lie to ourselves
00:19:59.68\00:20:02.54
that like even for me,
00:20:02.57\00:20:04.25
that I am fixed I
accept the Christ,
00:20:04.28\00:20:06.34
I got baptized,
I understood it all
00:20:06.37\00:20:09.15
and as I am with
God He unfolds it,
00:20:09.18\00:20:11.70
and I didn't
understand anything.
00:20:11.73\00:20:13.54
Even to this day I look
at how He brings healing
00:20:13.57\00:20:17.07
and I think we really are--
00:20:17.10\00:20:18.64
I don't know our
sanctification process
00:20:18.67\00:20:21.26
is never a fixing
process and so you know,
00:20:21.29\00:20:23.61
for you to say as I
put people around me
00:20:23.64\00:20:25.78
so that I can do that journey
and do that journey honestly.
00:20:25.81\00:20:30.20
Yeah. I get reminders.
00:20:30.23\00:20:32.69
I shared this with you,
just trying not to do this.
00:20:38.66\00:20:42.28
That's all right.
00:20:42.31\00:20:43.44
I shared this with you
already since I got here
00:20:43.47\00:20:46.21
but I get reminders you know,
00:20:46.24\00:20:47.87
all the time about my
brokenness and you know,
00:20:47.90\00:20:51.07
it's the simplest
of things sometimes
00:20:51.10\00:20:53.45
but on the journey here
on the flight here you know,
00:20:53.48\00:20:56.91
I sat next to a man and his wife
00:20:56.94\00:21:00.22
and we were both I
believe in short selves shirts
00:21:00.25\00:21:05.43
and my arm hit the arm
rest about the same time his did
00:21:05.46\00:21:10.38
and there was this
warmth of flesh next to me--
00:21:10.41\00:21:13.82
and as you know
today, my life today
00:21:13.85\00:21:16.31
is without any kind of physical
affirmation of any kind.
00:21:16.34\00:21:21.12
My relation today is
between me and Jesus Christ.
00:21:21.15\00:21:24.60
But that coming
together of that warm flesh
00:21:24.63\00:21:27.72
hitting somebody
else's warm flesh
00:21:27.75\00:21:30.59
took me back in my head
00:21:30.62\00:21:32.65
to that yearning
to want to belong,
00:21:32.68\00:21:35.32
to want to be
connected with someone.
00:21:35.35\00:21:39.41
And I understand those feelings.
00:21:39.44\00:21:41.41
So anyone who is
watching you know,
00:21:41.44\00:21:44.09
please know a
widow or a widower,
00:21:44.12\00:21:46.72
a same-sex attractive person,
00:21:46.75\00:21:48.42
a single person
who is never married
00:21:48.45\00:21:51.11
who yearns for
that physical warmth,
00:21:51.14\00:21:55.87
it's not wrong to want that
00:21:55.90\00:21:58.57
but it's only right
00:21:58.60\00:22:00.62
to do it in the
way that God intended.
00:22:00.65\00:22:03.55
So you-- but I want to say again
00:22:03.58\00:22:05.73
as like when you said
that bring people around you,
00:22:05.76\00:22:08.06
what I am learning
through just connection
00:22:08.09\00:22:11.88
is that we are meant to
connect with each other,
00:22:11.91\00:22:14.49
we are meant to
laugh with each other,
00:22:14.52\00:22:16.23
we are meant to reach
out and touch each other,
00:22:16.26\00:22:18.35
we are mean to sit
there and like even say, amen,
00:22:18.38\00:22:21.53
that was funny
and touch each other
00:22:21.56\00:22:23.68
without having those
fear and if we don't--
00:22:23.71\00:22:27.49
if as people come in as
you come into the church
00:22:27.52\00:22:30.71
or I come into the
church, if we don't do that,
00:22:30.74\00:22:32.73
that-- the enemy can
so play us in those areas
00:22:32.76\00:22:36.58
because we are starved,
00:22:36.61\00:22:38.02
we're starving to
death and God is saying,
00:22:38.05\00:22:40.93
if you are gonna chose recovery,
00:22:40.96\00:22:42.28
maintain
recovery you have to start
00:22:42.31\00:22:44.56
bringing those
things you're your life.
00:22:44.59\00:22:45.62
Because walls can get built
instead of being broken down
00:22:45.65\00:22:49.51
and so it so important today,
00:22:49.54\00:22:51.82
especially when--
00:22:51.85\00:22:53.93
well, any single
individual you know,
00:22:53.96\00:22:55.98
that comes into the
church that you know
00:22:56.01\00:22:57.74
they spend a lot of time as,
00:22:57.77\00:23:00.32
you know, single
lonely individuals
00:23:00.35\00:23:02.19
you know, give
them a nice warm hug,
00:23:02.22\00:23:04.21
let them know that they are
loved and they are cared about.
00:23:04.24\00:23:06.95
And I liked the way you said,
00:23:06.98\00:23:08.45
let's not just
make it a gay issue
00:23:08.48\00:23:10.56
because people are just
afraid of that word even
00:23:10.59\00:23:13.23
but let say the widows,
let's say somebody single,
00:23:13.26\00:23:15.47
let's say
somebody that same-sex,
00:23:15.50\00:23:17.17
let's say somebody
that's heterosexual,
00:23:17.20\00:23:18.81
let's whoever is that
if you know that you know,
00:23:18.84\00:23:22.70
that somebody is not
having that affirmation a lot
00:23:22.73\00:23:26.33
you are the body of
Christ, a family of God.
00:23:26.36\00:23:29.00
Weave them into the church body,
00:23:29.03\00:23:30.86
make them know that
they are part of it.
00:23:30.89\00:23:32.51
So is there's anything else?
00:23:32.54\00:23:33.91
You know, one of
the things that you do
00:23:33.94\00:23:35.66
that I think
really maintains your--
00:23:35.69\00:23:37.35
or that I see from a distance
that maintains your recovery
00:23:37.38\00:23:40.84
is the fact that
you are very passionate
00:23:40.87\00:23:42.50
about educating people.
00:23:42.53\00:23:44.17
And so you know,
00:23:44.20\00:23:46.36
you and I ran into
each other in Australia,
00:23:46.39\00:23:48.05
then you went to New Zealand
00:23:48.08\00:23:49.24
and you just
got back from Africa
00:23:49.27\00:23:50.50
and you come to
the United States.
00:23:50.53\00:23:51.82
So you are going
all over the world
00:23:51.85\00:23:53.34
saying out loud is man,
00:23:53.37\00:23:56.96
this is my journey,
sometimes I do it really well,
00:23:56.99\00:24:00.57
sometimes I don't but
here's why I am passionate.
00:24:00.60\00:24:04.07
And so you know,
that's got to help in this--
00:24:04.10\00:24:07.13
You know, my favorite verse
is Revelation 12:11 that says,
00:24:07.16\00:24:12.85
we will overcome him, the enemy,
00:24:12.88\00:24:15.37
Satan by the
word of our testimony.
00:24:15.40\00:24:17.73
And the more I
share my testimony,
00:24:17.76\00:24:19.68
the more I go to
God's word and say,
00:24:19.71\00:24:22.03
yeah, that's right,
that's right, that's right,
00:24:22.06\00:24:23.81
it all adds up,
God, you are right.
00:24:23.84\00:24:25.70
I am gonna go tell
some other people about this
00:24:25.73\00:24:27.71
because you've added,
you've brought joy to my life
00:24:27.74\00:24:30.30
and helping me
know that I am living
00:24:30.33\00:24:31.87
in according to Your
will instead of my own.
00:24:31.90\00:24:34.48
So there's a lot of presence
in word of your testimony.
00:24:34.51\00:24:36.55
What about the people that say,
00:24:36.58\00:24:38.05
you know what, can
you just accept it,
00:24:38.08\00:24:40.27
sit down and shut up?
00:24:40.30\00:24:42.32
Oh, yeah. Yes, I do.
00:24:42.35\00:24:44.66
I am very familiar with that.
00:24:44.69\00:24:46.62
When before I got
into this ministry
00:24:46.65\00:24:48.93
I think there were people
00:24:48.96\00:24:50.02
who really wanted me to do that,
00:24:50.05\00:24:51.83
they wanted me to just go sit
00:24:51.86\00:24:53.19
in the church pew and be silent.
00:24:53.22\00:24:56.30
I don't think that,
00:24:56.33\00:24:57.36
that what I have done is
much for my healing that,
00:24:57.39\00:25:00.15
that was necessary and
God had really inspired me
00:25:00.18\00:25:03.57
that we had been in the dark
00:25:03.60\00:25:04.83
so long on this
that we as a church,
00:25:04.86\00:25:07.75
we as a people can't
afford to remain in the dark.
00:25:07.78\00:25:10.97
I want to go home.
00:25:11.00\00:25:12.23
I want to get this whole
thing over with down here.
00:25:12.26\00:25:15.62
We need to learn to reflect
he pure love of Jesus Christ
00:25:15.65\00:25:18.87
to other people the way He did.
00:25:18.90\00:25:21.51
He ministered among prostitutes,
00:25:21.54\00:25:23.57
tax collectors, you know lepers.
00:25:23.60\00:25:25.32
I wonder if there
was anybody gay there.
00:25:25.35\00:25:27.06
And today gays are the
modern day lepers, you know.
00:25:27.09\00:25:31.59
We've got to learn to
love, not condone and condemn.
00:25:31.62\00:25:36.08
And to Christians
that's often like,
00:25:36.11\00:25:39.46
what do I do then?
00:25:39.49\00:25:41.07
Unless you personally
have an intimate relationship
00:25:41.10\00:25:44.29
with Jesus Christ
you don't have any water
00:25:44.32\00:25:46.78
to pour into
somebody's empty glass.
00:25:46.81\00:25:49.33
And so it does go well beyond
the scope of homosexuality
00:25:49.36\00:25:52.83
by all means today
and I've been amazed
00:25:52.86\00:25:55.67
that God is taking
me out of the gutter
00:25:55.70\00:25:57.50
and put me in the pulpit
to share this with people
00:25:57.53\00:26:01.06
because I am happy
that you want to learn
00:26:01.09\00:26:03.77
how to reach out
and love and care
00:26:03.80\00:26:05.64
about same-sex
attracted individuals
00:26:05.67\00:26:07.80
but I am also
concerned very much about you
00:26:07.83\00:26:11.13
and the intimacy or
the personal relationship
00:26:11.16\00:26:13.55
that I heard about as a
kid, I wonder what is that?
00:26:13.58\00:26:16.39
I wonder what is that?
What does it look like?
00:26:16.42\00:26:18.78
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:18.81\00:26:19.84
You know when somebody says,
00:26:19.87\00:26:22.90
you know when you of course
were standing up for ministry
00:26:22.93\00:26:25.90
I just cracked up
because one of the things
00:26:25.93\00:26:28.04
I thought was incredibly
difficult is that it's a topic
00:26:28.07\00:26:33.94
that people have
strong opinions about.
00:26:33.97\00:26:37.17
They really
either want to hear it
00:26:37.20\00:26:38.71
or they don't
want to hear a thing.
00:26:38.74\00:26:40.26
They are afraid that you are
gonna come on to their husbands
00:26:40.29\00:26:42.67
or they are afraid of
all other kind of stuff.
00:26:42.70\00:26:44.26
So you really have
that wall to fight against.
00:26:44.29\00:26:47.28
But then I want to
shout out to someone
00:26:47.31\00:26:49.77
is that even in
elementary school people
00:26:49.80\00:26:52.10
are teaching
that, oh, this is okay,
00:26:52.13\00:26:53.92
no matter what
you chose is okay.
00:26:53.95\00:26:55.77
So in secular world
we're been indoctrinated
00:26:55.80\00:26:59.82
in all kinds of
sexual-- in a way sexually.
00:26:59.85\00:27:04.14
All the movies are sexualize,
00:27:04.17\00:27:05.86
all the
commercials are sexualize
00:27:05.89\00:27:07.48
and yet as soon
we walk in the church
00:27:07.51\00:27:09.30
somebody says,
don't talk about it.
00:27:09.33\00:27:11.37
And I am like, really? You know.
00:27:11.40\00:27:14.19
And so when you said,
00:27:14.22\00:27:15.91
I am gonna go
out and talk about it
00:27:15.94\00:27:17.98
I am thinking, man,
00:27:18.01\00:27:19.38
get a bullet proof
vest and then good luck.
00:27:19.41\00:27:22.85
Do you know what I mean? I do.
00:27:22.88\00:27:24.83
So you know-- tell me what--
00:27:24.86\00:27:29.39
some of the things
that are your passion
00:27:29.42\00:27:31.52
and why can't you shut up.
00:27:31.55\00:27:33.64
You know because for so long--
00:27:35.75\00:27:40.89
because as a
child and as a teenager
00:27:40.92\00:27:43.97
and as an adult I was
pushed further and further away
00:27:44.00\00:27:46.71
and I am going, this
isn't what God has in mind,
00:27:46.74\00:27:48.49
I know this isn't
what God has in mind.
00:27:48.52\00:27:50.63
And so when God calls me back
00:27:50.66\00:27:53.64
and I find that the 40 years
00:27:53.67\00:27:55.58
that I was
wandering in the world
00:27:55.61\00:27:57.48
and I come back in
and find that the church
00:27:57.51\00:27:59.27
seem to have been
wandering for the same 40 years,
00:27:59.30\00:28:02.15
I cannot afford
not to share the truth
00:28:02.18\00:28:05.59
and the love of
Jesus Christ today.
00:28:05.62\00:28:08.07
I can't afford not
to. He's convicted me.
00:28:08.10\00:28:10.81
I could never be a gay activist
00:28:10.84\00:28:13.24
because when I
lived in the gay culture
00:28:13.27\00:28:15.06
I knew in my heart
00:28:15.09\00:28:16.45
it wasn't
according to God's plan
00:28:16.48\00:28:18.44
but I just
don't know what to do,
00:28:18.47\00:28:19.90
I didn't know the practicality
00:28:19.93\00:28:21.21
of the scholarly
type of information I had.
00:28:21.24\00:28:23.96
Today I do.
00:28:23.99\00:28:25.28
And so I have to go
and share that with people
00:28:25.31\00:28:27.38
and as I watch people get it
00:28:27.41\00:28:30.55
people stay long
into the afternoon
00:28:30.58\00:28:32.45
and into the evening
during the question and answer
00:28:32.48\00:28:34.84
period of the seminars that I do
00:28:34.87\00:28:36.78
and I see them get it.
00:28:36.81\00:28:39.10
It's just lights the
fire under more passion for me
00:28:39.13\00:28:43.25
to want to go and help others.
00:28:43.28\00:28:44.52
Now I wasn't so much a person
00:28:44.55\00:28:46.60
who could have
been a gay activist
00:28:46.63\00:28:48.35
but I told my
parents when I came back,
00:28:48.38\00:28:50.05
I can be an
activist for Jesus Christ
00:28:50.08\00:28:52.01
and if that means that
I lose my life that way,
00:28:52.04\00:28:54.92
I couldn't think
of a better way to go.
00:28:54.95\00:28:56.85
Amen.
00:28:56.88\00:28:57.91
And you know that--
00:28:57.94\00:28:58.99
what an
incredible saying this is,
00:28:59.02\00:29:00.53
you know what I am
so passionate about this
00:29:00.56\00:29:02.23
and who God is and vindicating
His name in this issue
00:29:02.26\00:29:06.32
that I can't
shut up, I can't stop.
00:29:06.35\00:29:09.25
But here's a caviar to that.
00:29:09.28\00:29:11.17
I hope this doesn't happen
00:29:11.20\00:29:13.54
but I like to put this out there
00:29:13.57\00:29:15.04
for people to think about today.
00:29:15.07\00:29:16.75
Don't put me-- this is
not about Wayne Blakely,
00:29:16.78\00:29:19.26
this is about Jesus Christ.
00:29:19.29\00:29:21.23
And Wayne
Blakely is still human,
00:29:21.26\00:29:23.60
he's still
fleshly, he's still tempted.
00:29:23.63\00:29:26.08
What if I had a fall?
00:29:26.11\00:29:28.15
Are you gonna run from
me or you gonna run to me?
00:29:28.18\00:29:30.98
Right. To help.
00:29:31.01\00:29:33.07
Yeah, because we need
to come around the person
00:29:33.10\00:29:36.20
who's hurting and pray over them
00:29:36.23\00:29:38.54
and lift them up
and say, you know,
00:29:38.57\00:29:41.60
I don't know
what the brokenness is
00:29:41.63\00:29:43.21
but I want to
get you reconnected.
00:29:43.24\00:29:46.06
No, with Magdalene you know,
00:29:46.09\00:29:48.35
I love when Christ
met the woman at the well
00:29:48.38\00:29:51.68
and even Magdalene,
but he woman at the well,
00:29:51.71\00:29:53.57
when she says you
know, she's asking for water
00:29:53.60\00:29:56.57
and he's talking
about relationships
00:29:56.60\00:29:58.85
and she doesn't even
admit her relationships
00:29:58.88\00:30:01.48
but He says, you know what,
you've been married five times
00:30:01.51\00:30:04.68
and the guy that
you are with right now
00:30:04.71\00:30:05.96
you are not even married to,
00:30:05.99\00:30:07.58
and He says that
with such love for her
00:30:07.61\00:30:11.10
that it changes her life.
00:30:11.13\00:30:12.86
You know, wouldn't you love it
00:30:12.89\00:30:14.25
if it would have been
a gay guy at the well.
00:30:14.28\00:30:16.34
Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
00:30:16.37\00:30:17.62
Because we can't
pull from those things.
00:30:17.65\00:30:19.98
But you know, Magdalene all
of the sudden is on the street,
00:30:20.01\00:30:24.07
she's been you know--
00:30:24.10\00:30:25.52
or the woman that
caught in adultery
00:30:25.55\00:30:27.01
pulled right out of bed
and she's guilty as anything
00:30:27.04\00:30:30.68
and He says to her, go
and sin no more, I love you.
00:30:30.71\00:30:34.38
And she can't help to follow Him
00:30:34.41\00:30:35.71
the rest of her live.
00:30:35.74\00:30:36.77
So we've got a God that says,
00:30:36.80\00:30:38.61
that I am
looking at these issues,
00:30:38.64\00:30:39.91
these issues are not good,
00:30:39.94\00:30:41.87
what you're to
your body is not good,
00:30:41.90\00:30:43.61
it's really harmful to you
00:30:43.64\00:30:45.17
but I understand
that you were desperately
00:30:45.20\00:30:47.21
wanted to be
loved and God is love.
00:30:47.24\00:30:50.05
And so really He is
trying to say all that to us.
00:30:50.08\00:30:52.81
And so when you
say that I can't stop,
00:30:52.84\00:30:57.07
I've got to
continue to say that,
00:30:57.10\00:30:58.77
I got to vindicate
God, this is not about me,
00:30:58.80\00:31:01.32
this is really about Him
00:31:01.35\00:31:02.85
and when I fall, please love me.
00:31:02.88\00:31:05.38
Because you know, with integrity
00:31:05.41\00:31:06.99
like even talking about my mom
at the beginning of the program
00:31:07.02\00:31:10.01
and I am so
afraid that you know,
00:31:10.04\00:31:13.26
as God teaches
me different things
00:31:13.29\00:31:15.35
and I wanted to
be honest with Him
00:31:15.38\00:31:16.97
regardless of what
anybody else thinks about me
00:31:17.00\00:31:19.18
because I don't want to
lose God in this process.
00:31:19.21\00:31:23.44
Another point to
make on integrity too,
00:31:23.47\00:31:25.48
I often have people say to me,
00:31:25.51\00:31:27.91
well, Wayne, you
know, really needed a Savior
00:31:27.94\00:31:30.63
because you had a
really broken life,
00:31:30.66\00:31:32.67
you know, you
were sleeping around,
00:31:32.70\00:31:34.45
you were in prostitution,
00:31:34.48\00:31:36.60
you didn't have a monogamous
00:31:36.63\00:31:39.76
sanctified
honorable relationship
00:31:39.79\00:31:42.35
that Jesus would
want you to have.
00:31:42.38\00:31:46.48
And I get confused by that
00:31:46.51\00:31:49.74
because God loves
every single gay person
00:31:49.77\00:31:53.12
as much as He loves
every single straight person.
00:31:53.15\00:31:56.58
There is you know,
God loves us all the same.
00:31:56.61\00:31:59.72
But I have to
redirect that question
00:31:59.75\00:32:02.56
back to the Word of God
00:32:02.59\00:32:03.83
which again is
His love letter to us.
00:32:03.86\00:32:06.30
Where can you
go, where can you say
00:32:06.33\00:32:08.48
that this is what
God's plan is for me?
00:32:08.51\00:32:11.36
If it's not
there, it's not something
00:32:11.39\00:32:13.69
that I can hold
comfort in and it's not there.
00:32:13.72\00:32:17.03
It's just not there.
00:32:17.06\00:32:18.60
And so we're just
telling a lot today
00:32:18.63\00:32:20.91
about a monogamist
relationship being--
00:32:20.94\00:32:23.06
a same-sex relationship
being pleasing to God
00:32:23.09\00:32:26.27
and there's no
evidence of that in God's word.
00:32:26.30\00:32:28.42
So I just urge
people to look beyond them.
00:32:28.45\00:32:32.09
And what's really funny
about that is I ended up
00:32:32.12\00:32:35.19
with a couple
that came for prayer
00:32:35.22\00:32:37.99
and they were in their 70's,
a beautiful couple, you know.
00:32:38.02\00:32:41.07
And at one
point we're gonna pray
00:32:41.10\00:32:43.11
and God says, ask
them if they are married.
00:32:43.14\00:32:46.08
And I thought, oh, stop.
Of course they are married.
00:32:46.11\00:32:48.22
You know, they are like
100 years old, 1,000 years old.
00:32:48.25\00:32:50.53
I mean, they, you know.
00:32:50.56\00:32:51.86
And so I said to
them, are you guys married?
00:32:51.89\00:32:53.86
And they turned red
looked down and said no,
00:32:53.89\00:32:57.30
we were just living together.
00:32:57.33\00:32:59.28
And so you know,
again, it's like it's not--
00:32:59.31\00:33:01.98
it's got-- they got
to pay attention to that,
00:33:02.01\00:33:05.75
you know, just living together
is not what I wanted for you,
00:33:05.78\00:33:09.10
I really wanted you in this
one flesh kind of relationship.
00:33:09.13\00:33:12.39
And it's not judgment, you
know, I get accused of this
00:33:12.42\00:33:16.26
and I think we all
get a little bit of that
00:33:16.29\00:33:18.54
living as Christians today.
00:33:18.57\00:33:19.92
If we are pointing
people to the Word of God
00:33:19.95\00:33:21.92
I've heard people say to me,
00:33:21.95\00:33:23.06
oh, you just
judged me, you know.
00:33:23.09\00:33:24.92
No, no, no.
00:33:24.95\00:33:26.89
Actually where the
truth is in God's word
00:33:26.92\00:33:29.50
and that's what
actually convicted in my heart,
00:33:29.53\00:33:31.51
I am only
drawing you to God's word
00:33:31.54\00:33:33.78
so that you can
hear from God yourselves
00:33:33.81\00:33:36.86
about what He
sees is been honorable
00:33:36.89\00:33:39.25
or dishonorable to Him.
00:33:39.28\00:33:40.45
And the more you
fall in love with Him
00:33:40.48\00:33:43.02
the more you are
gonna want to obey Him
00:33:43.05\00:33:46.59
or do His will
instead of your own will.
00:33:46.62\00:33:48.90
It's tough.
00:33:48.93\00:33:50.00
I mean, I am not going to
paint any rosy picture on it
00:33:50.03\00:33:52.72
that says, oh,
this all feels good.
00:33:52.75\00:33:54.99
We get this idea
that as Christians
00:33:55.02\00:33:56.75
they have this smooth road.
00:33:56.78\00:33:58.40
Really it's pretty rocky.
00:33:58.43\00:34:00.38
I might tell
people the streets of gold
00:34:00.41\00:34:02.25
are in heaven and not on earth
00:34:02.28\00:34:04.34
you know it's
the reward after this
00:34:04.37\00:34:06.55
but we've got to cling
on to Jesus in this process
00:34:06.58\00:34:09.47
and believe and have faith.
00:34:09.50\00:34:10.95
And faith is
often without feeling
00:34:10.98\00:34:13.18
and sometimes our feelings
are screaming and yelling at us
00:34:13.21\00:34:16.80
and saying, yeah, you know,
00:34:16.83\00:34:18.52
if you have 20
minutes with that man
00:34:18.55\00:34:20.96
and could lay on
his chest and hug him
00:34:20.99\00:34:23.47
and you would
feel like you belong
00:34:23.50\00:34:25.49
and you know what--
and 30 minutes later
00:34:25.52\00:34:28.05
you would be al empty again,
you know, it just isn't there.
00:34:28.08\00:34:32.64
And what's more,
00:34:32.67\00:34:33.72
it isn't there
from the stand point
00:34:33.75\00:34:37.78
of what God's word
is directing you to.
00:34:37.81\00:34:40.18
And I want to honor God.
00:34:40.21\00:34:41.37
We're gonna
open up for questions
00:34:41.40\00:34:42.61
but I want to just say
00:34:42.64\00:34:43.74
that when you said 20
minutes with that man,
00:34:43.77\00:34:46.57
I think 20 minutes you know,
00:34:46.60\00:34:48.13
I am shooting up heroin
00:34:48.16\00:34:49.19
because my
addiction is different
00:34:49.22\00:34:50.72
but we just
want to get relieved,
00:34:50.75\00:34:52.89
relief from the
loneliness of the pain we feel
00:34:52.92\00:34:55.82
and God says, the only way
00:34:55.85\00:34:56.94
you truly gonna
get that is with me
00:34:56.97\00:34:58.76
and I promise you,
00:34:58.79\00:35:01.42
if you walk
with Me in integrity,
00:35:01.45\00:35:03.74
walk with Me in honestly
and let Me change your life
00:35:03.77\00:35:06.54
the you'll start having
changes in your very desires.
00:35:06.57\00:35:09.84
So we're gonna
open up for question.
00:35:09.87\00:35:12.44
I want to go with,
Michael, you first.
00:35:12.47\00:35:15.01
You know, because
you-- you know Wayne.
00:35:15.04\00:35:16.97
What do you think of some
of the stuffs that he said?
00:35:17.00\00:35:19.95
Well, you know, my
question for you, Wayne,
00:35:19.98\00:35:21.71
is so in this ministry
that we've been doing together
00:35:21.74\00:35:26.34
we've seen each other
through a lot of progress
00:35:26.37\00:35:28.97
and a lot of challenges.
00:35:29.00\00:35:32.68
And so, Wayne, what I
really like to know from you
00:35:32.71\00:35:35.29
is what is your
greatest challenge now
00:35:35.32\00:35:38.32
and also what is
your greatest joy?
00:35:38.35\00:35:41.48
I would say right now
the greatest challenge to me
00:35:44.20\00:35:48.43
are individuals that I see
that are rejecting the truth,
00:35:48.46\00:35:54.53
that come to me
with a counter truth
00:35:54.56\00:35:56.91
or a truth that they
have accepted for themselves
00:35:56.94\00:36:00.56
but that doesn't
match up biblically
00:36:00.59\00:36:02.38
and yet it's not
my job to convict.
00:36:02.41\00:36:04.53
And so I pray
over those individuals
00:36:04.56\00:36:06.96
and hope that
God will get through,
00:36:06.99\00:36:09.47
I hope that their
hearts are not harden
00:36:09.50\00:36:13.03
and that they
let the Holy Spirit
00:36:13.06\00:36:14.54
speak to their hearts.
00:36:14.57\00:36:16.11
The greatest joy is
in seeing somebody get it
00:36:16.14\00:36:21.38
and give their
lives over to Jesus Christ
00:36:21.41\00:36:24.26
and let Him become
leader in their life,
00:36:24.29\00:36:26.94
realizing that the road ahead
00:36:26.97\00:36:28.72
you know, may not
necessarily be all leveled out,
00:36:28.75\00:36:31.86
that there's a lot of uphill
00:36:31.89\00:36:33.46
that He will carry them through
00:36:33.49\00:36:35.46
and that they have
the support of people
00:36:35.49\00:36:37.65
who are walking this
road along with them.
00:36:37.68\00:36:40.25
So let me just ask you
00:36:40.28\00:36:41.76
because when you
say someone get's it,
00:36:41.79\00:36:43.23
I know that you went
to a college in Australia,
00:36:43.26\00:36:46.45
I think you went to Avondale
and you also did something
00:36:46.48\00:36:48.99
with a television station there.
00:36:49.02\00:36:52.26
And I know that
there were young folks
00:36:52.29\00:36:54.60
that said you know what,
00:36:54.63\00:36:56.18
my whole life I've
dealt with this silently,
00:36:56.21\00:36:58.69
I've dealt with
this like in shame.
00:36:58.72\00:37:00.54
I've never been
able to talk out loud
00:37:00.57\00:37:02.51
and they get to
out loud to somebody,
00:37:02.54\00:37:04.83
I have this struggle
and you can allow them
00:37:04.86\00:37:08.30
to walk through this struggle.
00:37:08.33\00:37:09.89
So are you saying that,
00:37:09.92\00:37:11.43
that's such a joy
for you, keeps you going?
00:37:11.46\00:37:13.88
It is but the
first-- yes, it is.
00:37:13.91\00:37:17.82
And it's rare, it's so rare
because on the other side of it
00:37:17.85\00:37:22.53
you know, I've been through
00:37:22.56\00:37:24.47
what you said that
you've gone through
00:37:24.50\00:37:27.34
and I know that God loves
me and I know that God is fine.
00:37:27.37\00:37:31.85
I mean, let's look at
Jonathan and David in the Bible
00:37:31.88\00:37:36.29
and so I am
sure that God is fine
00:37:36.32\00:37:38.22
with same-sex relationship.
00:37:38.25\00:37:40.60
And so they--
often the arguments
00:37:40.63\00:37:43.56
that will come
up that will grasp
00:37:43.59\00:37:45.50
at something to hold on to,
00:37:45.53\00:37:47.63
please, God, let me just the way
00:37:47.66\00:37:49.79
I am because I don't
want to budge from how I feel.
00:37:49.82\00:37:53.17
When the analogy that's
been given doesn't hold up
00:37:53.20\00:37:56.53
because it wasn't
a sexual relationship
00:37:56.56\00:37:59.18
it's one-- and
people sometimes--
00:37:59.21\00:38:01.52
So because what
you are saying is,
00:38:01.55\00:38:02.88
you are using Jonathan and David
00:38:02.91\00:38:04.63
as if it was a
sexual relationship
00:38:04.66\00:38:06.51
and you are
like, wait, wait, wait,
00:38:06.54\00:38:07.76
they were just good friends.
00:38:07.79\00:38:09.12
Right, to justify
how they are today
00:38:09.15\00:38:11.77
and I don't need to change,
I am happy just the way I am.
00:38:11.80\00:38:15.27
So unless
somebody wants healing,
00:38:15.30\00:38:17.62
unless somebody is
wanting to find a way out
00:38:17.65\00:38:20.29
I can't force them to come out.
00:38:20.32\00:38:22.00
I don't want them to
come out against their will,
00:38:22.03\00:38:25.59
it won't do anybody any good
00:38:25.62\00:38:27.36
and I know that in my
own life, in my own struggle
00:38:27.39\00:38:31.82
I would have been just like them
00:38:31.85\00:38:33.88
and I would have been listening
00:38:33.91\00:38:34.96
to somebody like me
and going, yeah, right,
00:38:34.99\00:38:37.18
I am glad it works for you.
00:38:37.21\00:38:38.97
And so only the Holy Spirit
can touch that soften heart,
00:38:39.00\00:38:42.39
it's on up to me to do that.
00:38:42.42\00:38:44.88
But you know what's
really-- what's incredible to me
00:38:44.91\00:38:47.66
and I want to
go with even with--
00:38:47.69\00:38:50.77
you talk about the joy, Michael,
00:38:50.80\00:38:52.42
is the fact that you
know, for-- in my ministry
00:38:52.45\00:38:55.86
when I get
somebody that calls me
00:38:55.89\00:38:57.40
that is struggling
with the same-sex issue,
00:38:57.43\00:38:59.78
I turn them over to you guys
or turn them over to somebody
00:38:59.81\00:39:02.51
I know that is
doing that ministry
00:39:02.54\00:39:03.81
because I know there sometime
they just need to say out loud,
00:39:03.84\00:39:06.71
man, I just want to
process this for somebody
00:39:06.74\00:39:09.80
and everybody is
afraid of the issue.
00:39:09.83\00:39:12.28
And so the fact of
you're not being afraid of it
00:39:12.31\00:39:15.10
has to bring some joy to you,
it's like, I am not even afraid
00:39:15.13\00:39:17.86
and I'm really
glad that you called.
00:39:17.89\00:39:19.82
Yeah, the joy is there.
00:39:19.85\00:39:22.14
When I get emails or phone calls
00:39:22.17\00:39:24.22
I am joyful because I know that,
00:39:24.25\00:39:26.00
oh, I have one right now
that has divorced himself
00:39:26.03\00:39:31.13
from
Christianity many years ago.
00:39:31.16\00:39:33.81
But when I found it
in an article of mine
00:39:33.84\00:39:35.74
that I wrote three years ago,
00:39:35.77\00:39:37.96
why would they even
been looking for my article
00:39:37.99\00:39:42.00
and today declares
themselves as atheist
00:39:42.03\00:39:45.02
but now says that
maybe there some reason
00:39:45.05\00:39:48.20
for them to become my friend
00:39:48.23\00:39:50.57
because they can-- I
believe that the Holy Spirit
00:39:50.60\00:39:53.96
is involved in
this communication,
00:39:53.99\00:39:56.49
there is so much bitterness
00:39:56.52\00:39:57.92
on the other side
of this communication
00:39:57.95\00:40:00.28
but there still
this sort of reaching out
00:40:00.31\00:40:02.13
which was the name of
the article that I wrote.
00:40:02.16\00:40:04.07
Reaching Out. Yeah.
00:40:04.10\00:40:05.73
Okay you know, we
have another question.
00:40:05.76\00:40:07.67
I think David,
you had a question?
00:40:07.70\00:40:09.00
Oh, yes.
00:40:09.03\00:40:10.08
My name is David,
I am from Illinois.
00:40:10.11\00:40:12.88
My question, well,
I struggle with porn
00:40:12.91\00:40:16.54
and being with a lot of females
00:40:16.57\00:40:19.25
so it's like to say
anytime God brings us close
00:40:19.28\00:40:23.02
and bring us in
choose and show He love you
00:40:23.05\00:40:25.58
but did you think you
would still have that struggle?
00:40:25.61\00:40:29.22
You think it was-- you
know, if it's over with--
00:40:29.25\00:40:32.89
well, once the brought you in?
00:40:32.92\00:40:34.78
You know, that-- what
an excellent question.
00:40:34.81\00:40:37.84
God did amazing thing for me
00:40:37.87\00:40:40.17
and that the first four
years of coming back to Jesus,
00:40:40.20\00:40:47.27
He really put
that on a backburner.
00:40:47.30\00:40:50.40
I was so focused on Jesus
00:40:50.43\00:40:52.50
and I am still
focused on Jesus today
00:40:52.53\00:40:55.31
but I will say
that the temptation--
00:40:55.34\00:40:57.21
and somebody
recently said this to me,
00:40:57.24\00:40:59.95
the further you get into God
00:40:59.98\00:41:02.18
the stronger the temptation
00:41:02.21\00:41:03.72
the stronger the fight
will come from the enemy.
00:41:03.75\00:41:06.25
And I am very aware
of that fight today.
00:41:06.28\00:41:09.87
And so even more it drives me
00:41:09.90\00:41:12.36
to the foot of
the cross and says,
00:41:12.39\00:41:14.58
I must maintain
this relationship
00:41:14.61\00:41:16.50
with Jesus Christ
and I pray to Him.
00:41:16.53\00:41:18.35
I said, please don't
ever, ever let go of me
00:41:18.38\00:41:20.74
and I know you
won't but please make sure
00:41:20.77\00:41:23.05
that I don't ever let go of you
00:41:23.08\00:41:25.34
and that I keep you
know, claiming this promises,
00:41:25.37\00:41:28.73
Psalms 91 lately.
00:41:28.76\00:41:30.95
I know you should check it out,
00:41:30.98\00:41:32.88
I can dwell in the
shadow of the moist high
00:41:32.91\00:41:35.71
that I am sheltered in
the feathers of His wings.
00:41:35.74\00:41:38.83
Which is incredible.
00:41:40.52\00:41:41.88
We're going to come back,
00:41:41.91\00:41:42.97
I want you to continue on that
00:41:43.00\00:41:45.64
is what keeps you in recovery,
what kinds of things you do?
00:41:45.67\00:41:48.60
You talking about Psalms,
you talking about other things
00:41:48.63\00:41:51.28
but we're going to come back
00:41:51.31\00:41:52.35
and would you
join me for the close?
00:41:52.38\00:41:54.81
Absolutely. Okay.
00:41:54.84\00:41:56.07
We'll be right back.
00:41:56.10\00:41:57.14
We're talking about integrity
00:41:57.17\00:41:58.34
and we're talking about passion,
00:41:58.37\00:41:59.74
we're talking about
coming out of things,
00:41:59.77\00:42:01.58
homosexuality, drug
addiction all of that.
00:42:01.61\00:42:04.28
So stay with us,
we will be right back.
00:42:04.31\00:42:06.32