The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome back.
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You know, when,
when Ralph was talking
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about just weaving
the pattern with his dad
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is that it felt like a volcano
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and a lot of times
in the domestic violence
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regardless of the
severity some people say,
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that you have
to have broken arms
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and hospital
runs to have violence
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in if you with the family.
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You do not, man,
verbal abuses as intense
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and definitely when you
have that underline anger,
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but it is like
volcano that is just
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you know the tensions there,
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you know, it can erupt
anytime and when it does,
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you have that anger,
you have that explosion.
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So first you have the agitation
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and then you have the
explosion and then apologies,
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then everybody tries
to make it right again,
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and the gilt and the shame
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and then that
agitation builds up
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and its just conscious psycho.
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And you saw that as a kid,
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you intervened, not intervened
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but it kind of God
just put a little bit of I--
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kind of truce
with you and you dad.
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So open up that relationship
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and you both
really are dying for that.
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Your dad not
knowing to how to get it
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and you even making
a valve at one point
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that I'm not gonna
open myself up to him,
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realizing that you gonna
have to do that somewhat.
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Yeah, I mean.
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We're gonna have a
relationship with somebody
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you loved with, you can it,
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either not be there
or show yourself down
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which is good is, is as good
is living in some extreme cases
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or you gonna have to venerable.
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And so God, so
thankful that God,
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there is a God, "A" and
"B" that is a personal God
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because without
Him I've no doubt
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this dysfunction never
would have been solvable.
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So, with that situation
with your dad and the fact
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that you intervened with him
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or that God
intervened with two of you,
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so did it ever affect you
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and any relationships you
had apart from mom and dad?
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Yeah.
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Then I mentioned before
that I had normally had I said
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I will never do that
in a kind of general way
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but I had very
specifically outlined
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how my life would go.
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Yeah. You even acted it out.
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You know, to me
when you said that I,
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that's what I-- when
you said that I thought
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you know what, you
didn't have the stories
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where people had arms
broken or the hospital,
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but for get to act out,
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I'm gonna actually
practice not doing that
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because I don't want to be that.
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That showed me the level
of abuse was pretty intend.
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Yeah.
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And ultimately the effective
that had on me was intense
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and not to go too
far backwards here,
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as I tried to work
this out with my brothers
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as recently as a
couple three years ago,
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before I
confronted my dad on this--
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they were, you know
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the youngest
brother was in diapers.
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I mean, he may or not
may or not have remembered.
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My second to
the youngest brother
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says he has vague memories
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but he never realized
really how intense it was.
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So I don't know how
much of blocking there was
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in this with them and
how much was just age related
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where they just not remembered--
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They were too young.
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With lot of people say,
especially for a man is,
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they intellectually lock off
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close their heart
down solid that you,
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you are not gonna get to me
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but then I don't know
how to let you get to me
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and I don't know
how to feel truly joy,
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laughter, love,
any that kind of stuff
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because I'm locked
down and had been early.
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And that
intellectually locked heart.
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I can go in my head
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but I can't go in my
heart or my feelings.
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Which is exactly spells
out the way I dealt with my dad
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from the time I
was born until just--
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Just locked down.
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Just locked down and you
know, I talked to him and he,
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you know, told me
what he wanted me to do
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more the longer I'd obey
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I mean we had no
relationship whatsoever.
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Well, you know, I
don't want to say value
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because for me that's a big word
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and that has got implied
in it, but I promised myself,
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I was just never
gonna act like that
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and I don't care and I
imagine all the worst things
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you know that a 12,
13, 14, 15 I can imagine,
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that's are some pretty terrible
things actually that turns out.
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If that happens and
this is how I will handle it,
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but whatever
happens I will never bring
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that home and take out.
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I was always taken
it out on the people
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who are doing at me, whatever.
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Well, not my family.
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Not my family. Not my wife.
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And then I turned
right around and got married
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and about three
years into the marriage
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I found myself doing
exactly the same thing
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that my dad was doing.
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And I'm a not so sure,
was the same exact pattern
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but then again
does it really matters?
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Dad was bringing
it home from work.
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I'm not sure where it
was coming from with me,
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I think it was
actually frustration
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with a growing
relationship, you know,
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probably some very
normal stuff going on there.
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And the husband and the wife
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are getting to know each
other and all the real lives.
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But you know we talked
about earlier about that
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we don't have a tool kit.
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I don't have
anything in my tool kit.
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So you know, I'm
established in this new family
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but all I know was what I know.
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Yeah. And you
know, I even kind--
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as I looked back it
didn't realize I was doing this,
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but actually did
kind of reach out to help
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for help to some family members,
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one was my brother
which I don't think
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was crazy, but one was my dad.
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Even you said that I thought,
you what, you're kidding me,
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but you know what,
who do we return to,
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who do I say, you know
what, I'm in trouble I think?
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Yeah.
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I'm in trouble, and I
could feel the anger welling up
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and this before I ever
raised a hand on my wife
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and I could feel welling up
and I just didn't know I had--
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like you say I had no
tools, I call vocabulary,
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had no vocabulary to
deal with this at all.
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And I can feel this
thing happening to me
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and it was so powerful
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and so and burdened me
that I was just closed.
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I wasn't even naive
becoming the evil monster
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I was going to secondary college
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and naive to the whole thing.
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I really needed to re-tell
it to an object for party,
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really badly
right then and there.
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Even if it was the pastor I
need to shade all shame on it
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right then and there
just go say, I got this think,
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I think I gonna do something bad
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and I don't want to do.
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And I need some help.
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We need some help. I need help.
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Then we need help. And--
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But instead you
decided to have help.
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I really was left on my own so
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and I don't want
to make sound like
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it was everybody else fault.
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What I learn here
ended up dealing it.
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So but in the end, I ended
up, you know pushing my wife,
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I don't I never
you know punched her,
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kicked her or threw on
the ground and kicked her.
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But was and--
Pushing, yelling, verbal abuse?
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Yes. Okay.
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And when you, I mean real bad
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and when you brawl at somebody
at full speed like a lion back
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or even I'm not
dealt like one still.
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I mean, there is a
lot of inertia there
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and there is three or four times
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when I have ran
at her full speed
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I was just so
anger and I shout on her.
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And you know, you
push somebody hard
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when they come off of their feet
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fly across half of a
room and hit the wall.
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They are bruised.
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They are messed
up just as surely
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if I taken my fist in her.
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There is no
difference, maybe worse.
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I remember one
time, that we were into it
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and my wife at the time,
she is no longer my wife,
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my wife at the
time wasn't my mom,
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you know she was
not an unable person
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but maybe she was, but not
in the same way my mom was.
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She was gonna standup to you.
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Yeah, she was
gonna take any odd thing
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that comes from
me or anybody else.
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But you know, longer I
think was a good think,
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but at the moment
in those movements
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it was peeled to the fire.
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One time I ran into the bathroom
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during this thing
and pushed her so hard,
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she was
standing in front of sink
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and she flew across
the bathroom into the tub.
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I think there was probably
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the second or third
time that that happened
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and immediately
after she landed in the tub
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the way she landed
she was all contorted
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and I stopped
and I looked at her
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and for the first
time I became aware
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of just how lucky I would be,
if she haven't broken her neck.
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Exactly. I could
have broken my neck.
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Easily could have broken--
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more easy than if I pondering
her with my close fist.
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I could have hurt
way worse doing that.
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And that
probably was the beginning
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of some kind of
sobriety on this from me,
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just the beginning.
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You know, what's
really interesting
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and I've gotten
to just say this--
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because up until that point
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for most people
in those situations,
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most people in domestic violence
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is especially the
perpetrator is it feels like
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why do you keep
pushing me like that?
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Why do you keep
making me do this?
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And talk about that
because that's every real
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it's like I wouldn't do
this if you wouldn't do this.
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If you didn't--
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Yeah, again I had
and I apologies her.
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I come across as I know
it all and this bit really
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by the time I was 15
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I had this all these
issues psychologically analyzed.
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There wasn't an language,
I think I was thinking that
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and that was my
excuse after the effect.
00:09:19.82\00:09:22.04
Because after
these things happened,
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I literally,
physically felt ill.
00:09:23.50\00:09:26.42
You would be sick?
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I mean sick,
physically sick to my stomach.
00:09:27.51\00:09:31.25
And you know some of
that was probably normal
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from fire of fight
mechanism they goes on.
00:09:35.16\00:09:38.02
But I think it
was also a moral issue
00:09:38.05\00:09:40.09
and it was
disgusting that would be weird.
00:09:40.12\00:09:44.61
And was disgustedly--
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And I can't
believe I'm every thing
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that I said I wasn't gonna be.
00:09:47.65\00:09:51.44
There is something right
there that kind of came up,
00:09:51.47\00:09:54.59
it's like I remember what it was
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maybe it will come
back to me, but yeah--
00:09:55.69\00:09:58.18
So she is lying in the tub,
00:09:58.21\00:09:59.77
you are seeing that
realize the intensity of that.
00:09:59.80\00:10:02.31
And I just want to ask
00:10:02.34\00:10:03.45
because the
children involved yeah?
00:10:03.48\00:10:05.32
Not yeah. Okay.
00:10:05.35\00:10:06.86
Now after, I wanted to know
00:10:06.89\00:10:09.33
when precious
daughter was born I think,
00:10:09.36\00:10:14.93
and I could be corrected on this
00:10:14.96\00:10:16.41
and I'll happily accept it
00:10:16.44\00:10:17.47
but I think that the physical
violence was subsiding or over
00:10:17.50\00:10:23.34
but the verbal
damage was still going on.
00:10:23.37\00:10:27.69
So you are child
grew up in the same--
00:10:27.72\00:10:29.83
In the form, the
verbal damage is going on
00:10:29.86\00:10:31.93
and I was still
physically violent
00:10:31.96\00:10:33.54
because I was picking
stuff up and I mean, its felon--
00:10:33.57\00:10:36.54
how many felons he
go through in six months
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for you realize
there's a problem.
00:10:38.18\00:10:39.21
Yeah.
00:10:39.24\00:10:40.27
So again another
felon flies against the wall
00:10:40.30\00:10:42.39
and my little
daughter, still on diaper,
00:10:42.42\00:10:44.72
she is probably two, comes down
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and she sticks
her hands on her waist
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and she goes
dad, what's going on?
00:10:48.21\00:10:50.43
You know, what I mean
00:10:50.46\00:10:51.53
and my wife and I had
a terrible verbal fight.
00:10:51.56\00:10:55.11
She had gone out in a response
00:10:55.14\00:10:57.90
the all that I
had phone in my hand
00:10:57.93\00:10:59.91
and I struck it against the wall
00:10:59.94\00:11:01.40
and there went another phone.
00:11:01.43\00:11:02.85
And that's you know
when she had that response.
00:11:02.88\00:11:05.25
I remember at three, so
sad that I couldn't say my mom,
00:11:05.28\00:11:10.77
I thought she
was gonna be killed,
00:11:10.80\00:11:12.69
and I at three
years old wanting to know
00:11:12.72\00:11:14.77
how I could stop them
from killing each other.
00:11:14.80\00:11:17.56
And it just a horrible
thing as a child to just say,
00:11:17.59\00:11:21.63
I have no power
to stop these adults
00:11:21.66\00:11:25.23
from literally
killing each other.
00:11:25.26\00:11:28.05
This was the hugest fear
00:11:28.08\00:11:29.66
between with my
mother and father.
00:11:29.69\00:11:32.88
I lived this nightmare to be,
00:11:32.91\00:11:35.98
which was one with somebody
00:11:36.01\00:11:37.21
on a really, really hurt
the other person physically.
00:11:37.24\00:11:40.26
And now it's in your own home
00:11:40.29\00:11:41.46
and that's how you're living.
00:11:41.49\00:11:42.65
So how do you-- where does
any kind of sanity come in?
00:11:42.68\00:11:48.04
Because right now
you're doing the same thing,
00:11:48.07\00:11:50.16
when you come out the
door you guy all look good.
00:11:50.19\00:11:52.75
Because even the
people you worked with
00:11:52.78\00:11:54.42
and I have heard
someone says I had no idea
00:11:54.45\00:11:57.78
and they always look so normal.
00:11:57.81\00:11:59.04
Yeah.
00:11:59.07\00:12:00.10
Because you did the same
thing that your folks did.
00:12:00.13\00:12:02.01
Yep. I was say so--
00:12:02.04\00:12:04.64
Same thing that every home
00:12:04.67\00:12:06.63
that is dealing with
domestic violence tends to do
00:12:06.66\00:12:09.80
that every level,
I have seen people
00:12:09.83\00:12:11.93
that have everything
that have all other riches,
00:12:11.96\00:12:14.59
all other stuff, all of the toys
00:12:14.62\00:12:16.35
and then I have
seen people in poverty
00:12:16.38\00:12:18.17
and they all
tried to do same thing
00:12:18.20\00:12:20.14
when they walk at the
door, lets look normal.
00:12:20.17\00:12:23.10
I had a job for a while
00:12:23.13\00:12:24.63
where I went door to door
fixing people's exercise gear.
00:12:24.66\00:12:28.77
And I could go into home,
00:12:28.80\00:12:30.87
and I could feel that
there is domestic violence
00:12:30.90\00:12:33.29
going on in that home.
00:12:33.32\00:12:34.85
So there is order and
usually its more than just
00:12:34.88\00:12:38.01
you know wife gets
once in her whole upset
00:12:38.04\00:12:41.72
with husband and slaps
00:12:41.75\00:12:42.91
and we're talking
pattern domestic violence.
00:12:42.94\00:12:46.49
Exactly.
00:12:46.52\00:12:47.84
There is something in the air.
00:12:47.87\00:12:49.76
And there is like a
feel, because I grew up with it
00:12:49.79\00:12:52.44
and I lived it and
I became a perpetrator
00:12:52.47\00:12:55.82
and did my part to perpetuate
that social evil and so--
00:12:55.85\00:13:02.90
So now where does help come?
00:13:02.93\00:13:06.39
Help comes finally when--
00:13:06.42\00:13:09.10
For you where did it come?
When Cathy and Emily laughed.
00:13:09.13\00:13:13.13
They said we are done? Yeah.
00:13:13.16\00:13:14.54
To save
ourselves, to redeem anything
00:13:14.57\00:13:17.65
as far as our
lives, we have to take.
00:13:17.68\00:13:19.80
Yeah.
00:13:19.83\00:13:20.92
Cathy was not gonna put
up, again she was not my mom.
00:13:20.95\00:13:24.77
I think she was more my dad,
00:13:24.80\00:13:25.96
if you want to do
psycho analysis then,
00:13:25.99\00:13:27.64
I think I married my dad.
00:13:27.67\00:13:29.21
But she was not unable--
That's all another show, Ralph.
00:13:29.24\00:13:31.92
It's a whole other
show but it also walks in to
00:13:31.95\00:13:33.93
what we are talking
about and think a little too.
00:13:33.96\00:13:36.09
So personality wise.
00:13:36.12\00:13:37.37
Personality wise,
she was very contentious
00:13:37.40\00:13:40.84
which in this case
worked out for everybody,
00:13:40.87\00:13:44.55
especially for
her to begin with.
00:13:44.58\00:13:46.76
She worked with my
brother and sister-in-law to
00:13:46.79\00:13:51.52
I got to get out from
here what I'm gonna do.
00:13:51.55\00:13:54.00
I need a safe place.
00:13:54.03\00:13:55.06
My brother is a physician so
he deals with this stuff sadly
00:13:55.09\00:13:57.76
frequently so he had
mechanism, they found a shelter,
00:13:57.79\00:14:00.86
want a shelter for them
to go to in another state
00:14:00.89\00:14:03.21
and they went.
00:14:03.24\00:14:05.02
It took me according
to the chase a little bit,
00:14:05.05\00:14:08.25
two weeks to
admit what was going on.
00:14:08.28\00:14:09.80
So I come back
from a bicycle race
00:14:09.83\00:14:12.04
on a Sunday
afternoon and nobody is home.
00:14:12.07\00:14:13.92
I can't think, well,
that's not high unusual,
00:14:13.95\00:14:15.79
they often on the
warm Saturday, go off
00:14:15.82\00:14:17.56
and do what they
really want to do.
00:14:17.59\00:14:20.28
Evening comes its 9, 10,
11, 12 nobody comes home.
00:14:20.31\00:14:22.76
No calls?
00:14:22.79\00:14:23.83
I'm thinking,
shall I call my in-laws
00:14:23.86\00:14:26.52
and see if she is
over there across town.
00:14:26.55\00:14:28.44
And so I just let it rest.
00:14:29.16\00:14:31.29
By 3'o clock in the morning,
00:14:31.32\00:14:32.58
I wakeup in the
middle of the night
00:14:32.61\00:14:34.47
and they are
never gone all night,
00:14:34.50\00:14:36.26
there's not without
me knowing where they up.
00:14:36.29\00:14:39.15
And so I'm in deep in my
heart, I know what's going on,
00:14:39.18\00:14:44.05
but I'm denying even to myself.
00:14:44.08\00:14:46.48
And a whole another
day goes by I go to work,
00:14:46.51\00:14:49.86
whole another day goes by
and I get call from my dad,
00:14:49.89\00:14:53.70
my dad confronts
me on this issue.
00:14:53.73\00:14:57.67
Isn't this some
irony in that? Yeah.
00:14:57.70\00:15:00.42
Okay, I'm just saying.
00:15:00.45\00:15:02.45
I think that's a
great irony that from ways
00:15:02.48\00:15:05.11
that we probably won't
have time to even get to here.
00:15:05.14\00:15:09.31
Later that evening
my uncle Rolf calls me,
00:15:09.34\00:15:13.13
my dad's oldest brother.
00:15:13.16\00:15:15.13
And he doesn't confronts
me, but he never calls me
00:15:15.16\00:15:17.90
not that we
don't like each other
00:15:17.93\00:15:19.19
but he just doesn't call me now
that I'm adult for some reason
00:15:19.22\00:15:21.65
I'm no fun anymore or something.
00:15:21.68\00:15:23.61
And he just asks
me, how I'm doing?
00:15:23.64\00:15:25.36
I'm saying, okay.
00:15:25.39\00:15:26.66
Lying to him and to myself.
00:15:26.69\00:15:28.80
And crossing my fingers
00:15:28.83\00:15:29.92
that somehow what's
happening isn't happening.
00:15:29.95\00:15:33.47
The next day my
brother, my physician brother
00:15:33.50\00:15:36.02
who has this-- he and
his wife have assisted Cathy
00:15:36.05\00:15:39.28
and Emily to escape
their circumstances.
00:15:39.31\00:15:42.35
And he calls me up
and he hangs on the phone
00:15:42.38\00:15:46.83
saying nothing
other than this is damn,
00:15:46.86\00:15:49.63
how are you doing?
00:15:49.66\00:15:51.47
He is waiting for me,
you know to talk to the stuff
00:15:51.50\00:15:53.81
and so we be beat around
this bush for a few minutes
00:15:53.84\00:15:55.94
and he just
tells me at one point,
00:15:56.00\00:15:57.76
he says, look Ralph, I
deal this all the time,
00:15:57.79\00:16:01.04
every week I deal
with this and he says,
00:16:01.07\00:16:03.22
legally I am obligated to report
00:16:03.25\00:16:05.75
this stuff
every time it happens.
00:16:05.78\00:16:08.93
And so when he says that
00:16:08.96\00:16:11.74
reality really
begins to wash up.
00:16:11.77\00:16:13.96
I realize this
isn't a mind game,
00:16:13.99\00:16:15.94
this is way bigger than OG
00:16:15.97\00:16:18.21
what people in the
church kind of think about it
00:16:18.24\00:16:20.36
and this is way
bigger than all that,
00:16:20.39\00:16:22.28
that's I'm not very at
00:16:22.31\00:16:24.21
but its seeping as
just this is a big deal.
00:16:24.24\00:16:28.61
And it's a big deal and its not
00:16:28.64\00:16:30.72
that I didn't
realize it was big deal,
00:16:30.75\00:16:32.79
but it's bigger than the deals
00:16:32.82\00:16:34.40
I have that were bigger than it,
00:16:34.43\00:16:35.74
that's how the
people perceive me
00:16:35.77\00:16:37.13
and reputation and all that.
00:16:37.16\00:16:38.19
Exactly.
00:16:38.22\00:16:39.25
And what's really interesting
00:16:39.28\00:16:40.31
that when your living
in that day in and day out,
00:16:40.34\00:16:42.88
you can, that is your norm
00:16:42.91\00:16:45.20
so it began so look like
its okay, not okay really,
00:16:45.23\00:16:50.27
but it doesn't
feel life threatening,
00:16:50.30\00:16:53.33
it doesn't feel so abnormal
00:16:53.36\00:16:55.17
and then when your brother said,
00:16:55.20\00:16:56.54
is you like you
know, this was wrong.
00:16:56.57\00:16:59.69
Yeah, so he just laid
it right smack on the line.
00:16:59.72\00:17:03.52
I think even my
mother call me at one point,
00:17:03.55\00:17:08.26
so but I think so text the
better part of a have a week
00:17:08.29\00:17:12.74
or almost full week from neither
00:17:12.77\00:17:14.19
finally get to the point,
00:17:14.22\00:17:15.25
where I'm telling
myself this is what's happened
00:17:15.28\00:17:18.89
and it takes a day
from you really simulate
00:17:18.92\00:17:20.95
that and move on to now what,
00:17:20.98\00:17:24.66
if anything now where
are they gone forever.
00:17:24.69\00:17:27.66
And so now that its--
the cats are out of the bag--
00:17:27.69\00:17:29.89
Because in with perpetrator
00:17:29.92\00:17:32.58
and what's really
interesting in my own life
00:17:32.61\00:17:34.55
because I have been
involved in situations with
00:17:34.58\00:17:37.83
and there was
domestic violence is that
00:17:37.86\00:17:39.95
you wanted to say honestly
from your heart I'm sorry,
00:17:39.98\00:17:43.32
I want to it again.
00:17:43.35\00:17:44.62
So that's first
reaction comes up
00:17:44.65\00:17:46.39
is like I will change this
time, I will get some help,
00:17:46.42\00:17:49.82
I will do all
that kind of stuff.
00:17:49.85\00:17:51.41
But in you gut you know
that maybe this is too late.
00:17:51.44\00:17:53.90
Oh yeah.
00:17:53.93\00:17:56.01
I'm not gonna be
able to redeemed this.
00:17:56.04\00:17:57.40
That's right.
00:17:57.43\00:17:58.46
And that again take
another couple of days,
00:17:58.49\00:18:01.47
they were Cathy and Emily were
probably gone at least a month.
00:18:01.50\00:18:06.92
And it took me another
few days to get to the point
00:18:06.95\00:18:11.20
where I was brooding past,
00:18:11.23\00:18:13.25
the feelings of urge all just
do this apology or something.
00:18:13.28\00:18:17.91
I did, I still
wasn't really aware of
00:18:17.94\00:18:22.05
the
consequences of these actions
00:18:22.08\00:18:24.57
because I've never
seen a consequences of
00:18:24.60\00:18:26.71
the actions before.
00:18:26.74\00:18:28.51
Right. And your
dad-- your mom stayed.
00:18:28.54\00:18:31.41
She never left,
she never took off.
00:18:31.44\00:18:33.71
So you know for
you to have that woman
00:18:33.74\00:18:35.53
that says you know what,
I'm done, I really I'm done.
00:18:35.56\00:18:39.04
I may love you but I have
to take my child and leave?
00:18:39.07\00:18:43.00
Correct.
00:18:43.03\00:18:44.86
So it takes other few
days to get to the point
00:18:44.89\00:18:47.38
where I'm-- now
since I cant figure out
00:18:47.41\00:18:49.96
what do we do from here
I called by brother back
00:18:49.99\00:18:52.97
and I say, so what
do we do from here?
00:18:53.00\00:18:56.42
And he said, I'm not
sure he goes what do you want?
00:18:56.45\00:19:01.57
Took me another
day to process that.
00:19:01.60\00:19:05.00
I really I love my family,
00:19:05.03\00:19:09.11
I was weird to be a
family guy and really,
00:19:09.14\00:19:12.62
the realization that my family
00:19:12.65\00:19:14.85
could be taken away
from me in an instant
00:19:14.88\00:19:18.33
and then to realize I'm
the one who did that was,
00:19:18.36\00:19:23.62
was huge I mean that really,
00:19:23.65\00:19:25.74
it helped me to understand
in a way I never could
00:19:25.77\00:19:28.41
I don't think otherwise
probably unfortunately,
00:19:28.44\00:19:33.14
that how
valuable that was to me.
00:19:33.17\00:19:36.31
And it took me several
days to really evaluate
00:19:36.34\00:19:39.36
just how valuable is this.
00:19:39.39\00:19:41.21
Incredible.
00:19:41.24\00:19:42.27
What is this really meant to me?
00:19:42.30\00:19:43.42
You know, we
usually break for question
00:19:43.45\00:19:45.73
and I'm gonna
keep it here from in it
00:19:45.76\00:19:47.12
because I just want
to-- you know everything
00:19:47.15\00:19:50.56
that you said I will
never do, I will never be,
00:19:50.59\00:19:54.87
now you're sitting there
in the quite of your house
00:19:54.90\00:19:58.49
by yourself saying I'm all that.
00:19:58.52\00:20:01.76
Where do you go for help?
00:20:01.79\00:20:02.82
I mean, how do you
find the hand of God again?
00:20:02.85\00:20:05.92
How do you, how do you get
into safe place for yourself?
00:20:05.95\00:20:09.73
Realizing at that time,
that the chances of my never--
00:20:09.76\00:20:16.10
my wife or my daughter
never being married to me again,
00:20:16.13\00:20:21.57
realizing that I
could easily now take
00:20:21.60\00:20:24.01
that as forgone
conclusion that I would be lucky
00:20:24.04\00:20:26.92
if I was even able to
communicate with them again.
00:20:26.95\00:20:30.90
Because they could
get restraining order?
00:20:30.93\00:20:31.96
That whole thing.
00:20:31.99\00:20:33.02
They could make sure that
you never seen them again.
00:20:33.05\00:20:34.45
That's right.
00:20:34.48\00:20:35.51
And they had all of oddity,
00:20:35.54\00:20:37.12
they had evidence,
they had everything.
00:20:37.15\00:20:41.91
But since anger had
been part of my life
00:20:41.94\00:20:44.31
uncertainly trail
that even at school
00:20:44.34\00:20:46.48
I got busted a few
times, I would just blow up,
00:20:46.51\00:20:49.19
I would punch guys
that were twice my size
00:20:49.22\00:20:52.38
and some times
they would punch back
00:20:52.41\00:20:53.62
and that wasn't pretty either.
00:20:53.65\00:20:54.68
But just the fact,
00:20:54.71\00:20:55.74
this is my anger
would get out of control,
00:20:55.77\00:20:57.98
so fast it was something I
troubled with my whole life.
00:20:58.01\00:21:02.92
And so I, it was
another stepping stone
00:21:02.95\00:21:06.86
and anger has been-- I
can go back in another program
00:21:06.89\00:21:09.44
and show you
literally like a ladder
00:21:09.47\00:21:11.23
this is been a
life time of growth.
00:21:11.26\00:21:14.55
Very miserable
one in this regard
00:21:14.58\00:21:16.24
but at least there is growth.
00:21:16.27\00:21:17.59
And I began to work
around, I began to wonder
00:21:17.62\00:21:23.25
do I go to a
psychologist or a therapist.
00:21:23.28\00:21:25.55
Well, I stumbled into a place
00:21:25.58\00:21:27.26
they called
Antler's we were willing
00:21:27.29\00:21:30.42
and they had a 12
step program there.
00:21:30.45\00:21:33.12
They mostly deal with alcoholics
00:21:33.15\00:21:34.54
but they also took in people
00:21:34.57\00:21:36.01
who were convicted
domestic violence perpetrators
00:21:36.04\00:21:39.86
and I went and I
joined that group
00:21:39.89\00:21:43.47
and that's how I began
00:21:43.50\00:21:45.99
to tangibly take
care of specifically
00:21:46.02\00:21:49.49
with no borrows
hold my anger issue.
00:21:49.52\00:21:52.25
So you know what,
00:21:52.28\00:21:53.83
always we have two programs
to cover this but we don't.
00:21:53.86\00:21:57.60
So in the time that we have left
00:21:57.63\00:21:59.92
which is only like
eight minutes or so,
00:21:59.95\00:22:02.07
what did you
learn in that group?
00:22:02.10\00:22:03.68
What, you know, what
was life changing for you?
00:22:03.71\00:22:06.18
Because change in the
very core who you are,
00:22:06.21\00:22:09.15
from the time you were little.
00:22:09.18\00:22:11.37
And confronting what you became
00:22:11.40\00:22:13.25
and then coming out of that.
00:22:13.28\00:22:14.64
How did that happen?
00:22:14.67\00:22:15.77
It wasn't really,
it was not therapy,
00:22:18.64\00:22:20.77
it wasn't psycho
therapy, it was you know,
00:22:20.80\00:22:23.15
get to hit people when your
mad or you are going to jail.
00:22:23.18\00:22:25.68
It was that kind of therapy.
00:22:25.71\00:22:26.74
Take go cave? Can
I write that down?
00:22:26.77\00:22:29.08
Yeah, in my group
I was the only one
00:22:29.11\00:22:31.77
that was there voluntary.
00:22:31.80\00:22:34.12
And I got there and I don't know
00:22:34.15\00:22:35.95
what I thought you know,
00:22:35.98\00:22:37.18
it made I'm
somewhat naive in the world,
00:22:37.21\00:22:38.94
especially some of the programs
are listened to of yours
00:22:38.97\00:22:41.22
I realize in some
way that had lucky
00:22:41.25\00:22:42.93
but sadly some of the people
00:22:42.96\00:22:44.34
I've been responsible
for don't have it so lucky.
00:22:44.37\00:22:48.82
And in that group
00:22:48.85\00:22:50.73
we used a technique
called rational emotive therapy.
00:22:50.76\00:22:53.66
And I was been long time since
I have gone through strictly,
00:22:53.69\00:22:56.93
but the bottom
line is, its training,
00:22:56.96\00:23:00.23
its child-- I mean children
should have this figure out,
00:23:00.26\00:23:02.94
now joining when you get
mad you don't punch people,
00:23:02.97\00:23:05.83
you what I mean, those people
get this figured out sooner
00:23:05.86\00:23:09.36
but this was
what we learnt to do.
00:23:09.39\00:23:13.14
So let me just--
00:23:13.17\00:23:14.65
You know brought up earlier
00:23:14.68\00:23:16.96
that the idea
that I'm asking myself,
00:23:16.99\00:23:19.32
this violence happens
00:23:19.35\00:23:20.72
and I wish you
would stop making me mad
00:23:20.75\00:23:23.64
and in rational emotive
therapy we learn specifically
00:23:23.67\00:23:26.35
that we are the ones that
decide how we are gonna react.
00:23:26.38\00:23:29.26
Nobody makes me mad,
nobody makes me happy.
00:23:29.29\00:23:32.14
Right.
00:23:32.17\00:23:33.32
And so that's one
of the first thing
00:23:33.35\00:23:35.42
and what I wanted to
say before we go that
00:23:35.45\00:23:37.47
because I really love
00:23:37.50\00:23:39.08
that approach to
special domestic violence.
00:23:39.11\00:23:41.75
But if you want to go
just on the biblical sense
00:23:41.78\00:23:44.31
what they say is,
take every thought captive.
00:23:44.34\00:23:47.24
And so it's the same kind of
thing is what you are thinking,
00:23:47.27\00:23:49.92
what are your lies,
what are your errors,
00:23:49.95\00:23:52.45
what moves you?
00:23:52.48\00:23:54.05
And so with somebody that's
strikes have violently is like
00:23:54.08\00:23:57.38
if they didn't do
that, I wouldn't be mad
00:23:57.41\00:23:59.58
and what they do
is making me mad.
00:23:59.61\00:24:01.15
So the first lie is,
that nobody can make you mad.
00:24:01.18\00:24:03.56
That's right.
00:24:03.59\00:24:04.72
What are some other lies
00:24:04.75\00:24:06.06
that they were
teaching you in that group?
00:24:06.09\00:24:10.07
Well, that was the
biggest and most important one,
00:24:10.10\00:24:12.25
because it was
interesting every time
00:24:12.28\00:24:14.26
the facilitator
would throw that out,
00:24:14.29\00:24:17.89
Alvy was coming back with
00:24:17.92\00:24:19.14
and she is spelling
it out for us, you know.
00:24:19.17\00:24:21.88
Nobody makes you feels this way
00:24:21.91\00:24:23.71
and they are going, well,
00:24:23.74\00:24:25.15
for me it's when she or he does
this or that the other thing.
00:24:25.18\00:24:28.50
That's just makes me mad.
00:24:28.53\00:24:29.68
You know what I mean
and we go through weeks.
00:24:29.71\00:24:31.63
Than I went through
four months of this,
00:24:31.66\00:24:33.37
you know, four days a week
00:24:33.40\00:24:35.33
and we were
three months into this
00:24:35.36\00:24:37.04
and these same
individuals were going.
00:24:37.07\00:24:39.23
This just makes me
mad, its make me made,
00:24:39.26\00:24:42.23
that mantra it,
he, she makes me mad.
00:24:42.26\00:24:46.60
That little child makes me mad
00:24:46.63\00:24:48.30
when mom was in
there for hurting her baby.
00:24:48.33\00:24:51.79
But my baby does
this it makes me mad
00:24:51.82\00:24:53.74
and your looking at that
person you're kind of going
00:24:53.77\00:24:55.32
they actually believe that.
00:24:55.35\00:24:56.82
Right.
00:24:56.85\00:24:58.05
And I'm thinking I
actually believe that.
00:24:58.08\00:25:01.40
But, and being able
00:25:01.43\00:25:02.75
the most incredible moment
for God to do for any of us
00:25:02.78\00:25:06.85
is to say that is not true.
00:25:06.88\00:25:09.68
You can, you know,
00:25:09.71\00:25:11.23
you can respond
in a different way,
00:25:11.26\00:25:14.01
you take a breath and
respond in a different way.
00:25:14.04\00:25:17.10
You can counter
ten, you can walkout
00:25:17.13\00:25:19.02
and come back but
to actually get mad
00:25:19.05\00:25:21.73
and physically throw
something or hit someone,
00:25:21.76\00:25:24.52
you can't do.
00:25:24.55\00:25:25.63
It's not okay. It's not okay.
00:25:25.66\00:25:28.17
And here is the
wonderful thing about
00:25:28.20\00:25:29.79
during things
God's way is its freeing.
00:25:29.82\00:25:33.10
In what sense?
00:25:33.13\00:25:35.13
That I'm not driven,
nobody dictates to me
00:25:35.16\00:25:39.05
how I'm gonna feel,
I get to choose that.
00:25:39.08\00:25:41.70
Amen.
00:25:41.73\00:25:42.79
So you so, they are
out of your life now
00:25:42.82\00:25:47.76
and I know that credits
in some sadness for you,
00:25:47.79\00:25:52.09
some heartbreak for you.
00:25:52.12\00:25:54.40
But how are you different now?
00:25:54.43\00:25:58.93
Well, I want to share this,
00:25:58.96\00:26:03.26
because I think so
far and I'm gonna continue
00:26:03.29\00:26:07.53
to learn my
lesson from all of this,
00:26:07.56\00:26:10.33
but so far, I
mean, we were married
00:26:10.36\00:26:12.49
for another 15 years after that
00:26:12.52\00:26:15.66
and one thing I want to say is,
00:26:15.69\00:26:18.71
I asked her several times
over the next several years
00:26:18.74\00:26:21.10
after we reconciled
and got back together.
00:26:21.13\00:26:23.27
She wouldn't even
think about coming
00:26:23.30\00:26:24.34
until I had
finished this program
00:26:24.37\00:26:26.35
and the paper was in my hand.
00:26:26.38\00:26:27.52
And mutually
visited the facilitator
00:26:27.55\00:26:30.92
who was a
trained psycho therapist.
00:26:30.95\00:26:34.39
It wasn't easy to get
my wife and daughter back,
00:26:34.42\00:26:36.95
it was not easy at all.
00:26:36.98\00:26:38.65
At any moment I
could have change
00:26:38.68\00:26:40.18
just because she fell like it
00:26:40.21\00:26:41.33
and she had
every right to do that.
00:26:41.36\00:26:45.32
But 15 years after that,
than the marriage dissolves
00:26:45.35\00:26:50.69
and this is what I want to say.
00:26:50.72\00:26:54.26
I don't think that I
could dictate myself here,
00:26:54.29\00:26:57.16
but I don't think that she
left primarily because of us.
00:26:57.19\00:26:59.96
We-- our relationship
was a little distant
00:26:59.99\00:27:02.55
but there wasn't
anything real in my estimation
00:27:02.58\00:27:05.47
really bad about it.
00:27:05.50\00:27:08.00
But there wasn't anything
really good about it either.
00:27:08.03\00:27:09.93
It was just kind of there
and I was traveling a lot.
00:27:09.96\00:27:14.68
But you know what, I think
and the more I think about it,
00:27:14.71\00:27:19.45
the more I believe you,
00:27:19.48\00:27:21.41
that we could still be together,
00:27:21.44\00:27:23.37
if I had laid a foundation
that she could have gone
00:27:23.40\00:27:27.24
through all the
stuff she was going through
00:27:27.27\00:27:28.79
and she left.
00:27:28.82\00:27:31.61
And felt there
was one safe place
00:27:31.64\00:27:34.54
and that place was
her home and her husband.
00:27:34.57\00:27:37.56
And so, what you
are saying is that
00:27:37.59\00:27:41.46
the damage that was
done in your relationship
00:27:41.49\00:27:45.65
they never felt
like safe place for her,
00:27:45.68\00:27:47.59
their was alway--
00:27:47.62\00:27:48.69
Yeah, no doubt.
00:27:48.72\00:27:49.93
And I believe
that she forgave me.
00:27:49.96\00:27:52.72
You know, I really believe
that and when she forgave me,
00:27:52.75\00:27:55.88
I then ask forgiveness from God.
00:27:55.91\00:27:58.25
So all the forgiveness
has done but so as the damage.
00:27:58.28\00:28:02.47
And that damage, I
mean, it's no less than
00:28:02.50\00:28:04.96
that I build a
high rise building
00:28:04.99\00:28:06.76
and I forget to take care
of one little corner over their
00:28:06.79\00:28:09.78
and it exposed to
little more water,
00:28:09.81\00:28:11.77
the building may
still last 20 or 30 years
00:28:11.80\00:28:13.95
but it was meant
to last to 100 years.
00:28:13.98\00:28:16.15
But that one tiny little
piece of the foundation erodes,
00:28:16.18\00:28:19.79
and it erodes and it erodes
00:28:19.82\00:28:21.17
without anybody
getting there with a hammer
00:28:21.20\00:28:22.79
really knocking it around it
00:28:22.82\00:28:23.91
just the foundation
begins to come lose.
00:28:23.94\00:28:27.08
And even with all
people doing their best
00:28:27.11\00:28:29.98
that they could my
wife, me doing the best
00:28:30.01\00:28:32.72
that we could with the
pressure life puts upon us
00:28:32.75\00:28:35.20
and the
challenge of being married,
00:28:35.23\00:28:37.47
still there was no foundation.
00:28:37.50\00:28:39.41
I corroded the foundation
00:28:39.44\00:28:41.65
when I brought
violence into the home,
00:28:41.68\00:28:43.25
that's what I
wanted to make clear.
00:28:43.28\00:28:44.81
I corroded that
marriage relationship
00:28:44.84\00:28:47.00
permanently by
bringing violence into the home.
00:28:47.03\00:28:50.17
You know, we are
going to go out on a break
00:28:50.20\00:28:54.16
and come back to the close
00:28:54.19\00:28:55.87
and I would
like you to come back
00:28:55.90\00:28:59.57
and you kind of
talk to the guy out that,
00:28:59.60\00:29:02.30
that says you know I don't
think she is making me mad,
00:29:02.33\00:29:04.77
they are making me
mad and talk to him.
00:29:04.80\00:29:07.14
Because it is everyday
that you bring damage into home
00:29:07.17\00:29:10.65
and you may not
go back to fix it,
00:29:10.68\00:29:12.71
you may not be
able to go back fix it,
00:29:12.74\00:29:14.75
even in your healing,
00:29:14.78\00:29:16.67
even in the fact that you know
00:29:16.70\00:29:18.60
that there is a God that
forgives you and loves you
00:29:18.63\00:29:20.83
and Ralph, I
know that about you,
00:29:20.86\00:29:22.67
you know you want to
stand up as a man of God
00:29:22.70\00:29:24.39
and you want
really do the right thing,
00:29:24.42\00:29:27.21
but he can fix
us, it was always--
00:29:27.24\00:29:29.61
there was too
much that happened.
00:29:29.64\00:29:32.12
We will be right back,
00:29:32.15\00:29:34.03
if you are in
that situation now,
00:29:34.06\00:29:36.07
I'm gonna kind of
tell, specially women
00:29:36.10\00:29:38.26
a few things about
keeping themselves safe
00:29:38.29\00:29:41.02
and if it's a
woman that's your abuser
00:29:41.05\00:29:42.65
I will tell the guys and then--
00:29:42.68\00:29:44.38
I'm gonna have Ralph
00:29:44.41\00:29:46.35
just give you some advice maybe.
00:29:46.38\00:29:48.61
We'll be right
back, stay with us.
00:29:48.64\00:29:50.75