The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to
Celebrating Life in Recovery.
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My name is
Cheri, I am your host.
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Can we survive like adultery
and anger and abuse resentment?
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This is the
continuation from last week
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and this journey is incredible.
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Come join us.
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Welcome.
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You know I want to say welcome
to everybody at the cafe too.
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It is been like really so far
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it's been such
an incredible season
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and I want to
introduce you in a minute.
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But first we're gonna talk about
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we were going through
the book Celebrations,
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we were talking
about health stuff.
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We have such a heavy topic today
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really incredible victory
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but a heavy topic
today and we are on rest.
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When I am trying to
figure how to tie that together
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so I have really prayed about it
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and I want to
start with lighter way
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that in the US or
in the world in general
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we are going a
thousand miles an hour.
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We don't want to
rest, we are just on it.
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I saw a commercial not long ago
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that just I laugh my head off.
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The commercial was this guy
and I am gonna read it to you
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'cause if you get some of it.
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But this guy was
healthy looking really handsome,
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he's like running and
he says he's telling if how
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what he did in last five hours.
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Not the last five
days, not the last five weeks
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but the last five hours.
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He says that he went to marathon
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while knitting a sweater
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while was reading
a book teaching him
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how to himself
how to play guitar.
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Well, he was
becoming a ping pong champion
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while recording his first album.
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And he all did
that by pumping himself
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full of a popular energy
drink and he knows five hours
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so you might know
the name of the drink.
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But anyhow so it's like we all
would like running like crazy.
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We are just doing so much
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and we are taking more
caffeine and more stuff
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and we are staying up
later and we are doing
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all that kind of
thing and it's killing us.
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It's really killing us
and if you are in recovery,
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if you are doing any
of that recovery stuff
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we have to
start looking at that.
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We have start
looking to slow down.
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A friend of mine
interviewed this doctor
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named Archibald Hart
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and he wrote a book
called Thrilled to Death.
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And in his book he said
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that we are a
pleasure seeking society
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but and that's
called a hedonistic society.
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We want to find pleasure
and we wanted to feel good
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and we wanted
to happen yesterday
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and all that kind of stuff
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but he said in
that seeking of pleasure
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we have thrashed
ourselves so much
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that our pleasures
centers have flat line
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and we become and hedonistic.
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We are unable to find pleasure,
we've actually thrashed.
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We have taken away the
ability to even connect us
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so then we reach out
even more addictively.
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And so I know
you've probably thinking
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where am I gonna
go with rest on this.
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So that's all the external rest.
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They have been
able to take a breath
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and pull ourselves back.
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I am really
fortunate to belong to a church
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that says one day a
week we're gonna rest,
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we're gonna take a Sabbath rest,
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we're gonna check out
and actually connect with God
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and to end and literally
put work aside and all that.
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But what I have found
in recovery is what happens
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when the rest that we
need is from our own head.
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You know, we have literally--
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not now we literally, we
literally come to a place
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where I am
ashamed, I am resentful,
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I am fighting
against my own thoughts
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and my own
stuff and what happens
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when the rest I
need is from myself.
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And that's why I want to
introduce you, Rene Quispe.
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You are-- your wife
was on a show last week
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talked about some
stuff in your life.
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Really intense
stuff but what happens
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when the rest is in our head.
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Its not there.
Yeah, and it's not there.
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I'm not finding it anywhere.
Not finding it at home.
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When you have a restlessness
and frustration and anger--
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Bitterness.
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And when you have
bitterness and guilt
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that will never
allow you to rest,
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and rest is
something we all seek for.
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Most people seek
for physical rest.
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A physical rest
is not the best rest.
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It is the mental,
emotional, spiritual rest
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what we really need.
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They say that in hospital
visits now in this country
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most people come
in their primary issue
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is fatigue, tired.
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Not only physically
but stress mentally,
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physically,
emotionally, spiritually
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I am exhausted
and can you help me?
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And our body
starts to break down.
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I want to I know
that your journey
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to a place of rest
took a while and so--
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Yes.
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Can you tell us a
little bit about not only
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what happened in your
marriage or in your life
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but you know
where did you come for?
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What was your family like?
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Well, I was born in Argentina
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and my family was a
dysfunctional family.
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So I was growing up
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and the
situations were not easy.
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My father left us when
I was nine years of age.
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I was the oldest.
We were four kids.
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My little baby sister was there
and my mom was very depressed.
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She was neurotic at times
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and of course I
did not like all that.
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I was very frustrated.
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My natural temperament
said that I want to be,
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I want to enjoy life.
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I want to be successful.
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So since I was a
very young person
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I developed some
defense mechanism
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that would help me survive that.
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So I
concentrated on what was good.
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I was denying what was bad.
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I disconnected from anything
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that was painful
or I did not like.
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Right.
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And so you're
almost putting your hand up
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like don't even
bring that to me.
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That's right.
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Because you are not
gonna rob me from my life
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just because your
right now having a hard time.
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So I had a lot of good moments
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because I was
concentrating on that.
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I would just seem
to push away anything
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that was not good to me.
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And more when I was
a teenager about 15, 16
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I had a very sad
experience with my dad.
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I went to see him if he's gonna
get me some clothes and he--
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when I got there
after a long trip
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I haven't seen him for years.
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He just welcomed me
saying what are you doing here?
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And he began
shouting at me angry.
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My mind blocked
everything he said.
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I don't even
remember what he said
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but I remember his face,
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I remember his shouting
and he sent me back home
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without giving me breakfast.
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It was early morning.
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And but I
disconnected from that pain also
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years went by.
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Not even remember it
when you say disconnect.
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Yeah, disconnect.
This is not important.
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I did not even tell
my mom what happened.
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You see, I just I may
remember what happened
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but I don't allow it to
touch my heart by emotions.
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So eventually just to connect
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with that
particular event of my life
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we were already married
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when my wife and
I was here in Texas
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I was finishing my
doctorate in psychology
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and I became aware
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that I was very
traumatized with my dad.
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And I realized I need
to go and forgive him.
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So I did make a
trip to Argentina
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and I went to his house
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and by God's
grace I forgive him.
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And God helped
to understand things
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that I was not even aware of
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you know why he
was acting like that.
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God helped me to understand
why he was acting like that.
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But it was years later.
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Years later, years later
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and I realized that they
are so many things inside us,
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inside my own life
and that now I understand
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but that so I was
growing up I did not.
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You know when you are young
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I went to university and I was--
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now I gave my heart to the
Lord when I was 17 years of age.
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And I decided to
study for to be a pastor.
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And I wanted to
be a good person,
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a good pastor and I
dedicated all my time
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I wanted to excel in everything.
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I remember that eventually
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I decided I need to get married.
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And I asked the
Lord to find me the woman
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that was gonna be my wife.
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I remember saying to God.
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You know, God, I
want You to choose
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the girl that is
supposed to be my wife
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but make it that I like her too.
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Because that would be
awful. Very important.
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That's funny.
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When I met her we
fell in love instantly.
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I mean, it was
one time that we talk
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and I knew she was a girl.
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What was it
about the conversation
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that made you just now?
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I don't really
remember all that we talked
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all I remember
is that I find out
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that she did not
have any boyfriend.
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That I remember. That I asked.
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Somehow I asked that question
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and I went back to my
room jumping up and down.
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I said God, thank
you she is the one.
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And then we began to
date and it was not very easy
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because we were in
a Christian setting.
00:09:16.17\00:09:19.05
And remember this
was the 60s, okay.
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And there were regulations
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and she was in a
different part of the campus.
00:09:24.41\00:09:29.12
And its hard for
people nowadays to understand
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how serious it was, separated.
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Yeah, because they
allowed us to visit,
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to see each
other under supervision
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two hours every two
weeks or something like that.
00:09:39.41\00:09:41.82
I mean that's not
enough when you are in love.
00:09:41.85\00:09:44.04
You want to see them everyday
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and she was
just across the fence
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on the other
side on that hospital.
00:09:47.88\00:09:49.83
So eventually I said
man, I want to be with her.
00:09:49.86\00:09:53.52
I want to see her.
00:09:53.55\00:09:54.58
I want to, you know,
00:09:54.61\00:09:56.68
and I am not sick
so I cannot go there.
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Eventually I decided
that I need to have a surgery.
00:09:59.97\00:10:05.36
And I found the way to do it
00:10:05.39\00:10:06.77
because the hospital
was offering to those
00:10:06.80\00:10:08.99
who are planning
to go to there Amazon
00:10:09.02\00:10:11.58
as machinery a
free appendectomy.
00:10:11.61\00:10:16.42
Just in case, you know,
00:10:16.45\00:10:18.27
if you are in
Amazon River working
00:10:18.30\00:10:19.63
and you have problem with
your appendix they are gone.
00:10:19.66\00:10:21.74
So they just took it out.
00:10:21.77\00:10:22.98
They just took it out
even if you were okay.
00:10:23.01\00:10:26.31
So I put my name there
00:10:26.34\00:10:27.39
even though I wasn't sure
00:10:27.42\00:10:28.45
if I was gonna go to the Amazon.
00:10:28.48\00:10:29.58
Yeah.
00:10:29.61\00:10:30.66
And they did a surgery
and I was close to her.
00:10:30.69\00:10:35.06
But, you know, now I look back
00:10:35.09\00:10:38.62
and now I realize
beautiful the love is.
00:10:38.65\00:10:43.12
It's really selfish
because it's what you want.
00:10:43.15\00:10:47.19
You make me feel good. Yes.
00:10:47.22\00:10:49.09
I like the way
I feel around you.
00:10:49.12\00:10:50.45
Exactly. Exactly.
00:10:50.48\00:10:51.83
And you know it
took me many years
00:10:51.86\00:10:55.08
to understand the fact
00:10:55.11\00:10:56.48
that human love
without God is selfish.
00:10:56.51\00:10:59.58
And we all need to learn love
with a different kind of love
00:10:59.61\00:11:03.13
self giving
love, sacrificial love
00:11:03.16\00:11:05.79
but that's not the way
00:11:05.82\00:11:06.85
we usually begin a relationship.
00:11:06.88\00:11:08.79
At least most people you know
00:11:08.82\00:11:10.54
and my way of relating to
Alvy at the beginning was,
00:11:10.57\00:11:13.43
you know, she was the best,
00:11:13.46\00:11:14.49
she was the only one
00:11:14.52\00:11:15.56
in all of these
beautiful feelings.
00:11:15.59\00:11:18.41
She was the nurse
wanted to go on ministry.
00:11:18.44\00:11:20.56
Yeah. Everything you dreamt of.
00:11:20.59\00:11:22.48
Everything and we
were really in love
00:11:22.51\00:11:25.04
and it was just a
most beautiful experience
00:11:25.07\00:11:27.90
and then a few
months later when she--
00:11:27.93\00:11:30.09
one day she talked
to me with a little
00:11:30.12\00:11:31.73
bossy tone of voice
and I did not like it.
00:11:31.76\00:11:35.49
And I began to realizing
you know those little things
00:11:35.52\00:11:38.28
that you find
after your marriage
00:11:38.31\00:11:41.11
and it takes a long
time but if you do not know
00:11:41.14\00:11:44.72
how to feel deal
with those moments
00:11:44.75\00:11:46.55
when you get
frustrated or you don't like it
00:11:46.58\00:11:52.26
that will build up
and if you don't know
00:11:52.29\00:11:54.64
how to clean
resentment from your heart
00:11:54.67\00:11:57.60
it's gonna
destroy your relationship.
00:11:57.63\00:11:59.83
Well. I know that I talk today.
00:11:59.86\00:12:02.19
Right, but you were
talking about as a child
00:12:02.22\00:12:04.32
what I did was
just shattered off.
00:12:04.35\00:12:06.24
At the beginning
actually when they were problems
00:12:06.27\00:12:08.38
with the Alvy I
would try to deal with it
00:12:08.41\00:12:10.17
and if there was not a solution
00:12:10.20\00:12:12.09
as I wanted it I
would disconnect.
00:12:12.12\00:12:15.18
You see because
that was my natural way
00:12:15.21\00:12:16.98
of dealing with problems.
00:12:17.01\00:12:18.89
She would feel rejected.
00:12:18.92\00:12:20.21
And she would feel
rejected and there would be--
00:12:20.24\00:12:22.84
logical
sequence of conversations
00:12:22.87\00:12:25.49
and arguing and
being frustrated,
00:12:25.52\00:12:27.86
being angry and
that kept on building up
00:12:27.89\00:12:30.61
even though you know
after we finish in Argentina
00:12:30.64\00:12:33.20
we came to the States.
00:12:33.23\00:12:34.65
I went to
Andrews we got a master.
00:12:34.68\00:12:37.46
We went back to Argentina.
00:12:37.49\00:12:39.68
We worked as pastor in churches
00:12:39.71\00:12:42.01
and then for four
years I was teaching
00:12:42.04\00:12:44.06
at the university in Argentina.
00:12:44.09\00:12:46.52
And we had our two kids
and we decide to come back
00:12:46.55\00:12:49.81
to the States
to study some more.
00:12:49.84\00:12:51.33
So even this whole time
00:12:51.36\00:12:52.92
Rene, is that you are saying
my career very successful.
00:12:52.95\00:12:57.01
I'm, I'm really
bringing things into my life
00:12:57.04\00:12:59.59
that improve my life, I
am loving what I am doing.
00:12:59.62\00:13:03.03
I'm in control of everything
00:13:03.06\00:13:04.70
except for I go home
and then that psycho starts.
00:13:04.73\00:13:08.29
That was the only time.
It was increasing with time.
00:13:08.32\00:13:11.07
You know and
they were many moments
00:13:11.10\00:13:12.94
that we had
beautiful time, she know
00:13:12.97\00:13:15.28
but the situations
were such that in time
00:13:15.31\00:13:18.65
the periods of frustration,
resentment, arguing were longer
00:13:18.68\00:13:23.75
and eventually I
got an other master
00:13:23.78\00:13:27.76
and then we
began to doctor degree.
00:13:27.79\00:13:30.37
We were going from
one church to the next
00:13:30.40\00:13:32.77
and eventually we were pastoring
00:13:32.80\00:13:34.38
the university
church in Keene, Texas.
00:13:34.41\00:13:37.01
And we were just so--
I was happy with my work.
00:13:37.04\00:13:41.39
I was happy with the
success of my career.
00:13:41.42\00:13:44.22
And a lot of respect
from your colleagues?
00:13:44.25\00:13:46.44
Yes, and you know
00:13:46.47\00:13:49.12
because you know how
to relate professionally
00:13:49.15\00:13:52.26
and you know I
knew how to do my work.
00:13:52.29\00:13:56.26
And now I look
back and I realize
00:13:56.29\00:13:59.77
I was doing the work
because I learnt how to do it.
00:13:59.80\00:14:03.25
I knew what I was
supposed to teach and preach
00:14:03.28\00:14:06.00
because I had it in my brain.
00:14:06.03\00:14:08.55
I had an intellectual
religion. I had a knowledge.
00:14:08.58\00:14:12.97
I dint have the relationship.
00:14:13.00\00:14:15.28
May be I did have it
and God in His patience
00:14:15.31\00:14:17.50
you know is
compassionate and helps you
00:14:17.53\00:14:20.13
and you are successful
because successful we were--
00:14:20.16\00:14:22.85
we baptize a lot
people is so that was just--
00:14:22.88\00:14:26.80
So you're saying I don't
want to disconnect that time
00:14:26.83\00:14:29.58
but you know looking back on it
00:14:29.61\00:14:31.44
you could see kind of
the danger the red flags.
00:14:31.47\00:14:34.28
Oh, Yeah. Yes.
00:14:34.31\00:14:35.34
Oh, yeah, now I can see it.
00:14:35.37\00:14:37.31
You know in those days I
usually blame it on Alvy.
00:14:37.34\00:14:40.54
You see because
of whatever it was.
00:14:40.57\00:14:43.61
And so we were there working
00:14:43.64\00:14:46.72
and it was, it was very sad
00:14:46.75\00:14:48.50
because I would
have promise with anger
00:14:48.53\00:14:52.15
and I would come
home sometimes very angry
00:14:52.18\00:14:55.54
and I would
blow up for anything.
00:14:55.57\00:14:58.84
And but of course my
kids saw it, my wife saw it
00:14:58.87\00:15:03.54
but the rest of the
people I was perfect pastor,
00:15:03.57\00:15:08.51
only I saw that.
00:15:08.54\00:15:09.77
You know somebody
had said to me one--
00:15:09.80\00:15:11.56
one time and tell me
what you think of this.
00:15:11.59\00:15:13.94
Is that because they blew up
and the wife and kids saw it.
00:15:13.97\00:15:17.99
Is it that they would
almost be angry at them
00:15:18.02\00:15:20.96
that you make it
as come out in me?
00:15:20.99\00:15:24.34
You know, like I am not having
00:15:24.37\00:15:25.54
to deal with this somewhere else
00:15:25.57\00:15:26.70
but-- Why do you?
00:15:26.73\00:15:28.68
Yeah, only you so
it's got to be you.
00:15:28.71\00:15:31.02
Yeah.
00:15:31.05\00:15:32.08
And-- and in that even
builds up even more resentment.
00:15:32.11\00:15:34.79
And remember that
I-- since I was a child
00:15:34.82\00:15:36.95
I wanted to excel,
I wanted to be good.
00:15:36.98\00:15:38.53
I wanted to, you know,
00:15:38.56\00:15:39.62
so I would see
myself as perfect.
00:15:39.65\00:15:43.32
You see I have no problem.
00:15:43.35\00:15:44.76
Everybody knows
that I can do my work.
00:15:44.79\00:15:46.61
I can do it well
and what about you?
00:15:46.64\00:15:48.99
Why? Why? Why?
00:15:49.02\00:15:50.39
And so this-- let me tell you
00:15:50.42\00:15:52.74
a little story that is sad
but it reveals how things were.
00:15:52.77\00:15:58.28
One time we were in
that large church in Texas
00:15:58.31\00:16:01.34
and I came home angry with Alvy
00:16:01.37\00:16:03.05
I don't remember why
and I went to the kitchen.
00:16:03.08\00:16:07.31
She was cooking, it was Friday
00:16:07.34\00:16:09.29
and she had
prepared a lot of things
00:16:09.32\00:16:10.55
and I did not realize.
00:16:10.58\00:16:13.46
She has just washed
the floor and it was wet.
00:16:13.49\00:16:17.83
And I came angry fast
00:16:17.86\00:16:19.72
and as soon as I
step in the kitchen
00:16:19.75\00:16:22.13
I slip and I
just flew in the air.
00:16:22.16\00:16:25.29
I mean my two
feet went up like this,
00:16:25.32\00:16:27.71
my hands were like a helicopter,
00:16:27.74\00:16:29.65
my arms and I fell on my back
00:16:29.68\00:16:33.27
but as I was going
down my arm just hit
00:16:33.30\00:16:35.86
one big glass dish
with double eggs inside
00:16:35.89\00:16:40.81
that she had
prepare for the next day
00:16:40.84\00:16:42.18
we had a lunch for a
people from the church at home.
00:16:42.21\00:16:45.71
So that flew everywhere even
the ceiling had piece of egg.
00:16:45.74\00:16:49.73
Can you imagine? Yeah.
00:16:49.76\00:16:51.17
And glass
everywhere and of course
00:16:51.20\00:16:55.53
that was a very sad moment.
00:16:55.56\00:16:57.57
You know.
00:16:57.60\00:16:58.64
of course I
blame it on her again
00:16:58.67\00:17:01.32
but you know now I realize
00:17:01.35\00:17:03.79
what is inside your
heart when you act like that.
00:17:03.82\00:17:06.90
That is not God. That
is not the Holy Spirit.
00:17:06.93\00:17:08.89
That is Satan's spirit.
It is anger, frustration.
00:17:08.92\00:17:12.69
It's the spirit of darkness.
00:17:12.72\00:17:14.69
So instead of coming up
00:17:14.72\00:17:16.23
and just talking
about full of psychic--
00:17:16.26\00:17:18.93
coming up and
really been angry at her.
00:17:18.96\00:17:21.70
Yeah, I actually have
remained on floor for long time
00:17:21.73\00:17:25.74
because I was so frustrated.
00:17:25.77\00:17:27.72
And those were the
things that I look back
00:17:27.75\00:17:30.46
now I realize boy, it was bad.
00:17:30.49\00:17:33.34
It was bad.
00:17:33.37\00:17:34.54
Now of course our
children saw that,
00:17:34.57\00:17:36.77
the rest of
people did not know it
00:17:36.80\00:17:38.33
and for Alvy it's very,
very hard to deal with all that.
00:17:38.36\00:17:42.96
It was very depressing.
00:17:42.99\00:17:46.82
Imagine who is she
gonna talk to about this?
00:17:46.85\00:17:50.40
Is she talk to
any conference press
00:17:50.43\00:17:52.07
I could actually go and
talk to him and say listen,
00:17:52.10\00:17:54.55
I got a PhD in psychology I
can explain you what's going on.
00:17:54.58\00:17:58.47
You could over
talk her? Of course.
00:17:58.50\00:18:00.06
This is her issue. Yeah.
00:18:00.09\00:18:02.14
So there was no way
out for her and we were,
00:18:02.17\00:18:06.46
well, eventually we
have moved to California.
00:18:06.49\00:18:11.48
So, so what that
Rene at that point
00:18:11.51\00:18:13.37
definitely verbal
verbally the anger was there.
00:18:13.40\00:18:16.21
Was it physical?
00:18:16.24\00:18:17.58
There has been some push
up, pushing back and forth,
00:18:17.61\00:18:21.15
some slap or
something like that.
00:18:21.18\00:18:25.63
They were moments
even we both did it
00:18:25.66\00:18:27.46
to each other but mostly me.
00:18:27.49\00:18:29.68
But very not much that
was another major problem--
00:18:29.71\00:18:32.63
Mostly verbal.
Mostly verbal most of it.
00:18:32.66\00:18:36.24
And we go to California,
00:18:36.27\00:18:39.87
now I am working
in different studying.
00:18:39.90\00:18:41.51
I'm not working as a pastor
00:18:41.54\00:18:42.86
I'm working in a
center and I feel very lonely.
00:18:42.89\00:18:50.67
I feel very
frustrated, I feel very angry.
00:18:50.70\00:18:54.44
I travel, I had to go
and teach different places.
00:18:54.47\00:18:58.49
And I remember
that I was longing
00:18:58.52\00:19:02.61
for somebody to talk with
and that's what Satan uses.
00:19:02.64\00:19:07.17
And I never thought
about being unfaithful
00:19:07.20\00:19:10.65
and never wanted
to until it happened.
00:19:10.68\00:19:15.21
And--
00:19:15.24\00:19:16.39
So in your mind
you just thinking
00:19:16.42\00:19:18.21
now, I finally just
connected with somebody.
00:19:18.24\00:19:20.55
Somebody to talk to was
that not gonna go beyond that.
00:19:20.58\00:19:23.92
Was it somebody
there you worked with?
00:19:23.95\00:19:25.88
No, it was from
another state. Okay.
00:19:25.91\00:19:28.43
A person that I have to leave
00:19:28.46\00:19:30.32
when, when
everyday he was very seldom,
00:19:30.35\00:19:33.05
I mean few times a year.
00:19:33.08\00:19:35.21
And now it was but
it was the connection
00:19:35.24\00:19:39.81
and Satan knows how to
make it very attractive to you.
00:19:39.84\00:19:45.92
And so when you
add to all that anger,
00:19:45.95\00:19:50.13
frustration,
resentment inability
00:19:50.16\00:19:52.71
to deal with
relationship this way out.
00:19:52.74\00:19:57.69
And I remember that I
was very angry at myself
00:19:57.72\00:20:02.33
but I do not remember that I
blackout any negative things.
00:20:02.36\00:20:05.37
Absolutely.
00:20:05.40\00:20:06.46
I did not want to
think about my guilt.
00:20:06.49\00:20:08.37
I did not want to
think about my life.
00:20:08.40\00:20:12.05
I was just
disconnecting from everything
00:20:12.08\00:20:14.11
and trying to remain--
00:20:14.14\00:20:15.17
You know and I
and I am also saying
00:20:15.20\00:20:17.58
this little boy who
sense that my dad left
00:20:17.61\00:20:19.97
as I am trying to control things
00:20:20.00\00:20:22.07
to were thing are
good and I can't do it.
00:20:22.10\00:20:26.45
It's-- it's like not working.
00:20:26.48\00:20:28.73
Yeah, and-- and I was
determined to be happy
00:20:28.76\00:20:32.31
but that's not
the way to happiness.
00:20:32.34\00:20:34.06
You know and it was
one thing after another
00:20:34.09\00:20:39.20
that was causing me
to feel this horrible
00:20:39.23\00:20:42.06
feeling like I told you.
00:20:42.09\00:20:44.03
I hated myself but I
did not handle way out.
00:20:44.06\00:20:48.26
What do I do? Where do I go?
00:20:48.29\00:20:50.58
I thought about divorce
but God did not allow me.
00:20:50.61\00:20:53.27
You know, I even bought
a book about what to do it
00:20:53.30\00:20:55.13
and I just did not even read it.
00:20:55.16\00:20:57.79
It was like God was
blocking me from anything
00:20:57.82\00:21:00.33
that would be a divorce.
00:21:00.36\00:21:02.58
But I was remaining in
this, this connection from Alvy.
00:21:02.61\00:21:06.54
Eventually I
moved out of the house
00:21:06.57\00:21:09.01
to an apartment right
there in the same city
00:21:09.04\00:21:11.26
where we were living and I
was just putting my time into
00:21:11.29\00:21:18.40
whatever I was doing at a time
00:21:18.43\00:21:20.12
which was teaching
in different places.
00:21:20.15\00:21:23.33
I really felt miserable.
It was not life anymore.
00:21:23.36\00:21:27.90
And then the moment came of
when that experience of Alvy
00:21:27.93\00:21:33.11
mentioned in the
session last week
00:21:33.14\00:21:37.11
that I was at home
and I asked for food
00:21:37.14\00:21:40.56
in a very demanding
way and she prepared and--
00:21:40.59\00:21:44.37
At that point had
you been unfaithful?
00:21:44.40\00:21:46.65
Oh, yeah.
00:21:46.68\00:21:47.71
Okay, so that
went all that's happen.
00:21:47.74\00:21:49.10
This is been
already for quiet some time
00:21:49.13\00:21:52.59
nearly four to five years.
00:21:52.62\00:21:54.66
And it was a very sad situation.
00:21:54.69\00:21:58.87
I was very miserable.
00:21:58.90\00:22:02.02
I knew that I was not gonna be
00:22:02.05\00:22:03.95
able to have anything
with this sort of person.
00:22:03.98\00:22:05.82
Right.
00:22:05.85\00:22:07.15
And at the same
time I didn't know
00:22:07.18\00:22:09.09
where to go, what to do?
00:22:09.12\00:22:10.15
Right.
00:22:10.18\00:22:11.21
So nothing's
working out. Nothing.
00:22:11.24\00:22:12.62
Not even this where I thought
00:22:12.65\00:22:14.18
that I was getting
some kind of relief here.
00:22:14.21\00:22:16.34
I knew that, that was not yet.
00:22:16.37\00:22:17.74
Yeah. But I was frustrated.
00:22:17.77\00:22:19.49
I was very angry with
myself, angry with everybody.
00:22:19.52\00:22:23.07
And then that night
when Alvy brought me the food
00:22:23.10\00:22:28.23
and I eventually
left the house remember
00:22:28.26\00:22:30.60
and she prayed and she prayed
00:22:30.63\00:22:33.44
that I God will give
me a spirit of compassion.
00:22:33.47\00:22:38.01
And when I was
going back to my apartment
00:22:38.04\00:22:41.35
driving the car it
was a miracle of God
00:22:41.38\00:22:44.06
because I actually
felt in my heart something
00:22:44.09\00:22:46.94
that I haven't
felt for long time.
00:22:46.97\00:22:49.95
I felt compassion for her.
00:22:49.98\00:22:51.68
You know, I did not care
about how she felt before
00:22:51.71\00:22:55.21
and now I feel
this compassion for her.
00:22:55.24\00:22:57.72
So I called her back.
00:22:57.75\00:22:58.78
I took the phone,
remember those phones
00:22:58.81\00:23:00.77
when they were electrical
in the cars, well, anyhow.
00:23:00.80\00:23:04.28
That's funny
because I do remember.
00:23:04.31\00:23:05.85
Yeah, and I picked that phone
00:23:05.88\00:23:08.61
and the static
actually told Alvy
00:23:08.64\00:23:10.70
that it was my
phone she realized that.
00:23:10.73\00:23:13.66
And I don't even
know what to say.
00:23:13.69\00:23:15.61
So I began
telling her, you know,
00:23:15.64\00:23:18.24
I did not even
thank you for the food.
00:23:18.27\00:23:20.33
I know I was
driving back to my apartment
00:23:20.36\00:23:24.33
and I felt compassion for you.
00:23:24.36\00:23:29.18
And there was a silence
and then I said anything
00:23:29.21\00:23:35.69
and I don't even
know where it came from.
00:23:35.72\00:23:37.73
I say I would like to invite you
00:23:37.76\00:23:39.26
to take little
ride tonight with me.
00:23:39.29\00:23:42.01
It was almost midnight.
00:23:42.04\00:23:43.91
Can you imagine
and the amazing thing
00:23:43.94\00:23:48.35
is what Alvy tells
me that in her mind God,
00:23:48.38\00:23:51.78
how God let her
because, can you imagine
00:23:51.81\00:23:54.28
if a jerk like me and
wiser woman to go out.
00:23:54.31\00:23:59.03
The answer would be, ah?
00:23:59.06\00:24:00.27
When are you gonna
ask forgiveness, ah?
00:24:00.30\00:24:02.17
Right.
00:24:02.20\00:24:03.77
Years of
impatience and all the anger.
00:24:03.80\00:24:06.09
Yeah, and she-- she tells me
00:24:06.12\00:24:09.43
that she felt God
guiding her saying
00:24:09.46\00:24:13.14
the one that is inviting you
00:24:13.17\00:24:14.43
is not Rene it's
me, God inviting you.
00:24:14.46\00:24:19.59
So she answers-- So
powerful. So powerful.
00:24:19.62\00:24:24.74
She answers,
okay, I'll be ready.
00:24:24.77\00:24:28.31
And I come back...
00:24:28.34\00:24:29.37
and she was, she come out.
00:24:36.78\00:24:39.85
She was very pretty.
00:24:44.47\00:24:47.73
She gets into the car
and she said thank you,
00:24:47.76\00:24:52.97
for inviting me to
take this little ride.
00:24:53.00\00:24:57.21
I didn't know what to say.
00:24:57.24\00:25:00.23
I was frozen. I
can't even imagine.
00:25:00.26\00:25:06.73
And then we began
driving, you know,
00:25:06.76\00:25:09.50
and she looks
out and says just see
00:25:09.53\00:25:12.23
how beautiful the night is.
00:25:12.26\00:25:13.43
Trying to establish
a connection, you know,
00:25:13.46\00:25:16.29
and I don't --
00:25:16.32\00:25:17.37
It's so
outrageous. No, go ahead.
00:25:17.40\00:25:21.04
And I didn't answer anything
00:25:21.07\00:25:24.63
because I don't
know what to say.
00:25:24.66\00:25:27.96
I'm frozen and then
something happened in me.
00:25:27.99\00:25:33.75
And it's the
first evidence I have
00:25:33.78\00:25:36.77
of God's changing my-- my ways.
00:25:36.80\00:25:42.38
I begin to feel and
decide to put my arms around her
00:25:42.41\00:25:45.37
but I did not dare to do it.
00:25:48.70\00:25:50.81
Because of all the
stuff? What if I touch her?
00:25:50.84\00:25:53.80
I told her and she
tells me don't touch me
00:25:53.83\00:25:55.72
like I told her many times.
00:25:55.75\00:25:57.04
Yeah. So I was scared.
00:25:57.07\00:25:59.61
You know, I was fearful.
00:25:59.64\00:26:01.02
Fear, you know,
where it comes from.
00:26:01.05\00:26:02.30
Exactly. It's not from God.
00:26:02.33\00:26:04.56
So I-- I look at her again,
00:26:04.59\00:26:08.18
I am struggling
with all of this inside,
00:26:08.21\00:26:10.57
you know, and I
want to put my arm
00:26:10.60\00:26:12.89
but I am not sure I can do that.
00:26:12.92\00:26:14.78
So in my fearfulness I remember
00:26:14.81\00:26:17.39
keep on driving
with my left hand
00:26:17.42\00:26:19.53
and I put my
right hand on my knee
00:26:19.56\00:26:22.74
and then I moved it on to seat
00:26:22.77\00:26:24.43
and we had an open
seat it was Cadillac.
00:26:24.46\00:26:26.80
So I began moving
my hand toward her
00:26:26.83\00:26:30.06
hoping that she would see me.
00:26:30.09\00:26:34.99
And I was like get
about halfway I stop
00:26:35.02\00:26:38.87
and now here's what Alvy says.
00:26:38.90\00:26:40.49
Okay she says
that she saw my hand
00:26:40.52\00:26:43.00
and a voice comes up inside her
saying coward, don't touch it.
00:26:43.03\00:26:48.33
Wow. So the enemy
is still speaking.
00:26:48.36\00:26:51.13
That was yeah,
he's always there.
00:26:51.16\00:26:54.01
I mean he is
never gonna give up.
00:26:54.04\00:26:55.82
So he is always
there trying to stop
00:26:55.85\00:26:58.00
even if you are
living in the spirit
00:26:58.03\00:26:59.63
he's trying to stop that.
00:26:59.66\00:27:01.42
But immediately God says,
00:27:01.45\00:27:02.97
Alvy I always come
close to the sinner.
00:27:03.00\00:27:08.09
Take his hand. I
just want to weep for you.
00:27:08.12\00:27:13.46
She did not touch my hand.
00:27:13.49\00:27:14.88
I mean, she did
not held my hand.
00:27:14.91\00:27:17.44
I am driving and I feel
something touching my pinky
00:27:17.47\00:27:23.25
and I look at my hand
00:27:23.28\00:27:24.76
and I see her hand
here playing with my finger
00:27:24.79\00:27:31.74
and I leave my hand
00:27:31.77\00:27:36.08
and she began to
asking my hand then my arm.
00:27:36.11\00:27:41.89
There were no words just that...
00:27:47.75\00:27:52.18
I go back and God
tells Alvy don't fear.
00:27:55.78\00:28:03.16
He's gonna drop you back home
00:28:03.19\00:28:04.75
but don't fear I am working.
00:28:04.78\00:28:08.53
And I get to the house
00:28:08.56\00:28:13.82
and I leave her
there she goes down and--
00:28:13.85\00:28:18.98
I wish I can tell you
that I change right away.
00:28:19.01\00:28:21.86
I did. It took a long time--
00:28:21.89\00:28:24.38
Would you mind
Rene, if we took a break
00:28:24.41\00:28:27.88
and I just let Alvy join us?
00:28:27.91\00:28:30.58
Oh, yeah, please.
00:28:30.61\00:28:31.68
I am going to
'cause you know even--
00:28:31.71\00:28:34.18
even that moment
where God is so graciously
00:28:34.21\00:28:37.25
and He forgive us and literally
brings such reconciliation
00:28:37.28\00:28:40.91
we don't even know
what to do with that next.
00:28:40.94\00:28:43.05
But I would like to see
or hear from both of you
00:28:43.08\00:28:45.79
what happened and
what that look like.
00:28:45.82\00:28:48.84
I don't know about you
but I am so proud of God
00:28:48.87\00:28:52.02
and even when we don't even know
00:28:52.05\00:28:54.01
we are so self-destructive,
we don't even know what to do.
00:28:54.04\00:28:59.90
God says you know
what, I will be faithful.
00:28:59.93\00:29:02.70
I'll be faithful.
We're gonna be right back.
00:29:02.73\00:29:05.14
I would like to
invite his wife up
00:29:05.17\00:29:07.83
and let her keep him
honest with the story.
00:29:07.86\00:29:11.34