The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for young children.
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Welcome to
Celebrating Life in Recovery.
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I'm Cheri your host and
today I'm gonna introduce you to
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good friend of
mine Pastor Jim Moon.
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Got an incredible
story journey that
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you're gonna be blessed by
but also is gifted in music.
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So he is gonna play
a couple songs for us.
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Welcome.
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You know, there are times
that I get to introduce you
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to some really
good friends of mine
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and today is one of those times.
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I'm gonna
introduce you to Pastor Jim.
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I've loved him from
the time that I've met him,
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his entire family
is just incredible.
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But before we get
there, we have to talk about
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what we're doing as
far as the health message
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on this segment and maintenance.
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And it was really weird
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that I'm looking at
Celebrations and the acronym
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and all of the
things that come with that
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and, you know, choices
being the first part of the "C"
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on Celebrations and exercise
and environment and belief
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and optimism and
all that kind of stuff.
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And I've got some leftover
that are just really tough ones
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like this one.
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Today is on
liquids and I wanted--
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I wanted to do liquids.
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It's simple that we drink water.
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I mean, if we didn't drink water
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we would die,
we would dehydrate.
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A lot of our illnesses--
when you go into the hospital,
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most of the time anybody
that goes in the hospital
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the first thing they do
is they set you up on IVs
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because most of
us are dehydrated.
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So water is really important
but I want to look at that
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on a spiritual sense because
Jesus says, like He says,
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"Come, if you're
thirsty drink from Me"
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it says in John.
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It says in Isaiah 58 that
we're like "watered gardens."
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I mean, there is all
kinds of stuff in there--
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in the Bible
that talks about water
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and spiritual thirst
and the fact that God is
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so ready to pour into us
and meet that thirst within us.
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So I want you to
think about thirst in
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that we got to drink more
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and if you are out
there I'm not saying soda,
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Dr Pepper or tequila.
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I'm saying
water, drink more water.
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And it's in my own recovery.
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You know, I'm
heroin addict in recovery.
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I've got all kinds of
stuff I'm trying to walk from.
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I actually do want to be
healthy and a woman of God,
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I want to spiritually be able
to use my mind in every way.
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And most of the time, if
you see me drink anything,
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it's gonna be water.
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I very seldom even
drink anything else.
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I mean that's
juice, sodas whatever.
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If I'm thirsty,
I'll grab water now
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because it's good for me.
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That's the only
reason and I finally get it
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after 30 years of recovery.
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So I'm not really fast
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but when I get
something I get it.
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So I'm asking you if
you can just drink water
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and if you want to take
that to a spiritual sense,
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God says, "If you
are thirsty, come to Him"
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and literally He
will pour into you
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everything that you
need in order to live.
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And now I want to
introduce you to my friend Jim.
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I can't even believe
you are on the program.
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Give me a handshake.
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I love you. I know it's studio.
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All right.
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But Pastor Jim Moon,
we've known each other
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for how long?
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At least since 2002 is
when you came to Wyoming.
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Yes.
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And I think you were there
around 2000, the fall of 2000
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and then I started year in 2001
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at so called camp meeting.
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So long time we worked
together at women's retreats,
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we worked
together at teen retreats,
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we've talked on the phone a ton,
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you're wife
Ingrid is just amazing.
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You have three kids. Yeah.
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What are you doing now?
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I pastor in Southern Colorado
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and so I'm involved in
prayer ministry as well.
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I'm gonna-- you know,
I'm gonna tell a story,
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you just said it that--
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I'm gonna tell a story
about the funniest thing
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I've ever seen as
far as you in ministry
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and I was working with
this guy that was just a wreck.
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Tattoo Jim a mess, angry,
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I don't even know
why God stuck him with us
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because he was so inappropriate.
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My friend, her child
died and she buried him.
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Died of
methamphetamine overdose.
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Not overdose but his
heart explodes, he ends up dying
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and she is crying about that
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and this Tattoo Jim
looks at me and says,
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"Is she gonna whine
about this the whole time."
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And I'm like
really, you're gonna say
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she gonna whine about this
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and we are
driving down the freeway
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and I'm supposed
to be an evangelist
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and I want to open up the truck
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and just kick him
right out of the road.
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Like you know what,
and I wanted to see him
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bounced down the freeway.
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I wanted to see him.
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I'm like you are so mean
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and I'm thinking
as a woman of God,
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should I even
have those thoughts?
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You know, I was so mad at him
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and I'm the
whole time saying God,
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why do we have
this guy with us for?
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Why is he with us?
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He is rude, he is--
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he says things that
are just so insensitive
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and he is drinking coffee
and he is smoking his brains out
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and he is not--
he is cursing them.
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Why is he with us?
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And God is just clearly
saying because I love him.
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Amen. Amen. I love him.
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And I'm thinking but he
is such a jerk, you know.
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And I'm like-- so anyhow,
so then we go and we do this
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outreach in Wyoming.
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We're staying at
your house and he is just,
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he is still a jerk,
you know, but I hear him.
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I'm in the kitchen with Ingrid
and Tattoo Jim is with you.
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And do you want to
take the story from here?
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Well, the first thing
I remember about Jim is
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he just had this
dragon on his forehead.
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A tattoo?
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The first time I saw him I said,
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"Hey, you've the
mark of the beast."
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In fact--
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And he didn't punched
you which was amazing.
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Yeah, but that
whole experience like
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with you being
there in Wyoming and Jim
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and that was
kind of the first time
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I was starting to
kind of become awaken
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to the whole world of
recovery and the whole world.
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I in my teen years
what had happened was
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I don't remember it was before
or after you came to visit,
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but there was a
young man that had called
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an adult phone
line from our church
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and so when he
called the phone line
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like, oh, no, what do we do?
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And I called you and you
recommended a couple of books,
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a book called An
Affair of the Mind,
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that's a story of the
woman who had her husband
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with a sex addiction.
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And then another book
called the Addictive Personality
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and then you said maybe
you want to talk to the church
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and give a sermon
describing what addiction is.
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So I read those two
books, I'm thinking about
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I had a kind of an
idea that it was this kid
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but I didn't know for sure
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and so I decided
to preach the sermon.
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And I started to inventory
my life, do I have any--
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what am I gonna
get an illustration
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or story about addiction
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and what came to mind was
my own struggle as a teen.
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And I masturbated and
kind of like the joke is that
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99% of guys do it
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and the 1% that say
that they don't are lying.
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And maybe not statically
true but they are joke.
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Yeah.
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so I was 13 the first
time that happened to me
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and there was a lot of
shame and guilt and I--
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as I got older and it
was from about 13 to 24
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and as I got older, I
felt like wow, is this,
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you know, I want to be a pastor
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and I've got
this junk in my life
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and so there was a lot of shame
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and when I was--
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You don't want to talk to? Yeah.
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So I didn't feel like I
could talk to anybody about it
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because you know, I
tried to hide it and whatever.
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All right.
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So finally I think
God gave me the courage.
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There were two things
that started to change
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my whole sense.
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One was I started to open up
to some people that I trusted.
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I talked to my best friend,
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a guy that I really
looked up to spiritually.
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You know, and I got to
just say as I have to really say
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was it Bernie?
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No.
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Now, what I got to
say is that as a pastor
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it's really tough to
say I've got to open up
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and get accountability
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with people that
I trust and love.
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Because Satan will
try to get you shamed
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and quieter and quieter
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and you end up
getting lost in that shame
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and that's sad.
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Because you are man of
God called for a purpose
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and Satan just knows,
if I can keep you quiet
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in any area you like.
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So devil is the voice
that was put in my head,
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you can't-- how
can you be a pastor
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when you got this junk.
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And so I started to
open up to a friend.
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I talked to a
guy at the seminary,
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one of my
professors and he reassured me.
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He says I know a
guy, he is over 40
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and went back to that and
God still working with him
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and then I talked to my dad.
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So as I started
to experience grace
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from the people around me
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and then there was
one other experience
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that really
stands out in my mind.
00:09:08.24\00:09:09.60
Marshal Kelly was an
African-American preacher
00:09:09.63\00:09:11.81
who was doing a week of
prayer and he said one time--
00:09:11.84\00:09:15.46
he says, I was
looking at my backyard
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and I saw this tree out
there and it was a winter time
00:09:17.40\00:09:20.22
and I said to the Lord loud,
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Lord, why do you
like the leaves hang,
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the dead leaves
hang on that tree?
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And he says,
the Lord spoke to me
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and He said, Marshall, He says,
00:09:28.46\00:09:30.60
when the spring time comes
00:09:30.63\00:09:32.50
the new growth will
force off the dead leaves.
00:09:32.53\00:09:36.30
And I started to weep because
and my mind went to John 15
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where Jesus says, "I'm the vine
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and you are the branches.
00:09:43.55\00:09:44.94
If a man abides
in Me and I in him
00:09:44.97\00:09:47.00
he will bear much fruit."
00:09:47.03\00:09:48.53
And I had this
thing where even though
00:09:48.56\00:09:50.95
I had this cycle of
acting out with masturbation,
00:09:50.98\00:09:55.01
feeling ashamed,
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feeling I couldn't
talk to God for a week
00:09:56.10\00:09:59.21
then finally kind of coming back
00:09:59.24\00:10:00.27
with my tail between my legs.
00:10:00.30\00:10:01.35
And, you know, I
would said, you know,
00:10:01.38\00:10:05.81
if I'm lost I
know that God loves me,
00:10:05.84\00:10:08.60
I know that-- I
know about grace.
00:10:08.63\00:10:10.63
So if I'm lost,
it's not gonna be
00:10:10.66\00:10:11.98
because of Him, that
will be because of me
00:10:12.01\00:10:14.13
but I'm gonna
just hold on to Him.
00:10:14.16\00:10:15.77
But regardless.
00:10:15.80\00:10:16.83
And so when Marshall said that
00:10:16.86\00:10:18.06
the new growth will
force off the dead leaves
00:10:18.09\00:10:20.06
and I thought if John
where he says, abide in me,
00:10:20.09\00:10:22.84
it was like, it was like
God was saying through Marshall,
00:10:22.87\00:10:26.36
I've got you on this
00:10:26.39\00:10:27.92
and I will bring
transformation and change.
00:10:27.95\00:10:30.82
Amen.
00:10:30.85\00:10:31.88
So then when this
kid calls a porn line
00:10:31.91\00:10:35.11
and I read these
books, I was like, okay,
00:10:35.14\00:10:36.99
so that was my
kind of experience
00:10:37.02\00:10:38.95
with the whole addiction cycle
00:10:38.98\00:10:41.62
and I read
different stuff about it
00:10:41.65\00:10:42.68
and some people say it's a sin,
00:10:42.71\00:10:44.08
others say no that's
what young man go through
00:10:44.11\00:10:46.16
and there's all
the developmental stuff
00:10:46.19\00:10:47.38
and whatever.
00:10:47.41\00:10:48.44
I just knew for me that
it felt like it wasn't right,
00:10:48.47\00:10:52.36
it didn't feel right to me.
00:10:52.39\00:10:54.21
And I'm now looking back
00:10:54.24\00:10:56.17
I see that God
gave me that experience
00:10:56.20\00:10:57.98
to give me empathy for people
who battled darker addictions
00:10:58.01\00:11:01.75
and things that man,
I'm like if I'm a wimp
00:11:01.78\00:11:04.34
if I had to deal
with some of the--
00:11:04.37\00:11:05.60
like what you dealt with
I don't know if I'd make it.
00:11:05.63\00:11:08.44
But you know, what was
really interesting to me
00:11:08.47\00:11:10.26
even with this kid is because
00:11:10.29\00:11:12.74
God has worked
through that with you
00:11:12.77\00:11:15.82
and you decided to be honest
with that with your own stuff,
00:11:15.85\00:11:19.58
you were able to
talk to him so gently
00:11:19.61\00:11:22.14
and with so much
grace, not to shame him.
00:11:22.17\00:11:24.91
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:24.94\00:11:26.24
And so and there were others too
00:11:26.27\00:11:27.91
that God just opened the door
00:11:27.94\00:11:29.49
to be able to connect
with and now, you know,
00:11:29.52\00:11:32.58
I'm doing a
Bible study with a gal
00:11:32.61\00:11:34.97
whose mom like was an alcoholic
00:11:35.00\00:11:38.22
and she has to take medication
00:11:38.25\00:11:41.37
because she can't sleep in night
00:11:41.40\00:11:42.54
because she has posttraumatic
stress from her mother
00:11:42.57\00:11:44.71
waking up her in
the middle of the night,
00:11:44.74\00:11:45.97
beating on her and the other guy
00:11:46.00\00:11:47.70
who is a vet and I just--
00:11:47.73\00:11:50.30
all these crazy problems
and I grew up in a home where,
00:11:50.33\00:11:53.39
you know, a
loving Christian family.
00:11:53.42\00:11:55.43
My mom and dad were married,
00:11:55.46\00:11:57.26
no real over
the top dysfunction.
00:11:57.29\00:12:00.36
I though, I thought
you were so perfect.
00:12:00.39\00:12:02.57
So now we got Tattoo
Jim in his living room
00:12:02.60\00:12:05.35
and I'm in the
kitchen and I'm with Ingrid
00:12:05.38\00:12:08.46
and now we say I was
helping her make dinner.
00:12:08.49\00:12:10.54
I was actually
talking, she was making dinner.
00:12:10.57\00:12:12.89
But I was in the kitchen
00:12:12.92\00:12:15.57
and I heard Pastor
Jim say to Tattoo Jim,
00:12:15.60\00:12:20.79
you know, we all have
problems, we all have issues
00:12:20.82\00:12:24.50
and Jim almost got in his space
00:12:24.53\00:12:26.71
like yeah, what's your issue?
00:12:26.74\00:12:29.80
And for a moment it was quiet,
00:12:29.83\00:12:31.86
but my ear was like so,
00:12:31.89\00:12:34.34
right there like,
what is he gonna say?
00:12:34.37\00:12:36.11
Is he gonna honestly
say something that's real
00:12:36.14\00:12:39.93
or is he gonna
blow this guy off.
00:12:39.96\00:12:41.98
Because if he says something
that's not real at this moment,
00:12:42.01\00:12:45.05
he will lose Jim
spiritually and the respect
00:12:45.08\00:12:48.10
that he is gaining for
you and he is already thinking
00:12:48.13\00:12:51.64
that you're
vegan and you're weird
00:12:51.67\00:12:52.94
because he said you know,
if I have to eat another salad,
00:12:52.97\00:12:55.58
I'm gonna go shoot myself.
00:12:55.61\00:12:56.88
I'm not a vegan by the
way, I'm not even vegan so--
00:12:56.91\00:12:59.16
Oh? No. No. No.
00:12:59.19\00:13:00.43
No, but you know, what he felt?
00:13:00.46\00:13:01.79
He said he felt
like a salad tutor.
00:13:01.82\00:13:03.30
He said always, all I was
doing was eating vegetables.
00:13:03.33\00:13:06.51
Could anyhow, so I
mean, that's what I'm here.
00:13:06.54\00:13:08.74
So what did you say to him?
00:13:08.77\00:13:10.63
Because what you said to
him was life changing for him.
00:13:10.66\00:13:13.91
Well, I guess I said
what I just told you.
00:13:13.94\00:13:15.85
I mean, I don't
remember that part.
00:13:15.88\00:13:17.35
I've remembered
telling that to other people.
00:13:17.38\00:13:19.26
You said to him,
because I was right there
00:13:19.29\00:13:21.33
with my ear right
there and he says to Jim,
00:13:21.36\00:13:24.19
he says I had a
problem with masturbation
00:13:24.22\00:13:27.63
and Jim is like oh, dude,
nobody wants to hear that.
00:13:27.66\00:13:31.84
And it was so funny
00:13:31.87\00:13:33.02
because you have this
hardcore guy that's a mess
00:13:33.05\00:13:37.74
and he is thinking, you know,
00:13:37.77\00:13:39.51
that's it, that's what
you're gonna say to me.
00:13:39.54\00:13:42.09
And he gets up and he
walks outside to go smoke
00:13:42.12\00:13:44.88
but it changed his life.
00:13:44.91\00:13:46.03
He said that
moment changed his life
00:13:46.06\00:13:48.23
because he just
so thought about that
00:13:48.26\00:13:50.77
that he is so
far over on this side
00:13:50.80\00:13:53.45
that even those kind of
things seem minor to him
00:13:53.48\00:13:56.70
because he is raping people,
he is angry all the time.
00:13:56.73\00:13:59.35
He is going out
and using and doing
00:13:59.38\00:14:01.32
horrible
malicious things to people
00:14:01.35\00:14:03.59
and you are saying
that and he is just like,
00:14:03.62\00:14:05.37
what is the deal there.
00:14:05.40\00:14:06.95
And but slowly he changes.
00:14:06.98\00:14:10.02
Within the next few days
he asks us to pray for him
00:14:10.05\00:14:13.42
to come to Christ, all because
you were just brave enough
00:14:13.45\00:14:17.70
not to just say, you know, what,
00:14:17.73\00:14:19.88
maybe 10 years ago I lied.
00:14:19.91\00:14:22.08
Do you know what I mean?
00:14:22.11\00:14:23.14
Oh, and that's a funny thing
because when I did the sermon
00:14:23.17\00:14:25.89
and I shared that whole
thing usually when you preach
00:14:25.92\00:14:29.09
people say, oh, that
was wonderful, or good job,
00:14:29.12\00:14:31.56
pastor, or whatever or
they will say, you know,
00:14:31.59\00:14:34.13
you really
shouldn't have said that.
00:14:34.16\00:14:35.23
They didn't say
anything it was like,
00:14:35.26\00:14:36.65
it went over the head.
00:14:36.68\00:14:37.72
But-- But his
wife did say something.
00:14:37.75\00:14:39.80
His wife was
like, so don't say that.
00:14:39.83\00:14:42.84
About six months
later and I was so sick,
00:14:42.87\00:14:46.76
I kind of go to the
other side of district
00:14:46.79\00:14:48.91
which is 90
miles away and preach.
00:14:48.94\00:14:50.49
I was throwing
out and so Ingrid goes
00:14:50.52\00:14:52.34
and she takes this
girl Michelle with her.
00:14:52.37\00:14:54.49
And Michelle is
deceased now, but she was like--
00:14:54.52\00:14:58.73
she was almost
like the Mary Magdalene
00:14:58.76\00:15:00.79
of our congregation.
00:15:00.82\00:15:01.85
She was so in love with Jesus
00:15:01.88\00:15:03.57
but you know, was
battling alcoholism,
00:15:03.60\00:15:06.53
had been married a
couple of times and she--
00:15:06.56\00:15:12.34
she says to Ingrid
when they were driving over
00:15:12.37\00:15:14.56
to the other
side of the district
00:15:14.59\00:15:15.73
as Ingrid took her with her.
00:15:15.76\00:15:16.79
She says when Jim
shared his junk with a church
00:15:16.82\00:15:20.65
that gave me courage to
go and get help in recovery.
00:15:20.68\00:15:24.02
Amen.
00:15:24.05\00:15:25.50
And so I was like,
okay, God, and it started--
00:15:25.53\00:15:28.42
and also started, you know,
00:15:28.45\00:15:30.53
when you are
living in that shame
00:15:30.56\00:15:32.87
and you are
living in embarrassment
00:15:32.90\00:15:35.71
of whatever your issues are,
00:15:35.74\00:15:37.60
you sometimes feel like
does this have any meaning,
00:15:37.63\00:15:42.48
it just seems so senseless.
00:15:42.51\00:15:44.12
I mean, why can't I
just get rid of this junk?
00:15:44.15\00:15:46.97
Yeah.
00:15:47.00\00:15:48.87
And what I realized now is
that God redeems everything
00:15:48.90\00:15:53.26
and if we give Him our stuff,
00:15:53.29\00:15:55.32
not only will He
deliver us from it
00:15:55.35\00:15:57.59
but then He will use it
00:15:57.62\00:15:58.96
to make us a
blessing to the people
00:15:58.99\00:16:00.61
who are struggling with
some of the same issues.
00:16:00.64\00:16:02.34
What I love about
the name of Moses,
00:16:02.37\00:16:04.48
Moshe is when pharaoh's daughter
00:16:04.51\00:16:06.69
named him Moses.
00:16:06.72\00:16:08.18
She named him Moses and it means
00:16:08.21\00:16:09.76
I drew you out of the water.
00:16:09.79\00:16:11.64
And so that name, his
identity was in his deliverance,
00:16:11.67\00:16:16.69
but his destiny
was to be a deliverer.
00:16:16.72\00:16:19.40
Wow.
00:16:19.43\00:16:20.46
So he was drawn
from the water but then--
00:16:20.49\00:16:23.56
God comes along 40 years later
00:16:23.59\00:16:25.26
when he is at the end of himself
00:16:25.29\00:16:26.65
and he is like
you got the wrong guy.
00:16:26.68\00:16:28.36
And he says now
I want to take you
00:16:28.39\00:16:29.98
and I want to
draw a whole nation
00:16:30.01\00:16:32.16
out of the water.
00:16:32.19\00:16:33.67
That's incredible.
00:16:33.70\00:16:34.84
And but you know,
Satan will just get us to
00:16:34.87\00:16:36.97
just be silent.
00:16:37.00\00:16:38.29
Satan will say you know,
what, no, no, no, just be silent
00:16:38.32\00:16:40.83
and God says
please, it vindicates me
00:16:40.86\00:16:43.85
when you talk about the grace
00:16:43.88\00:16:45.53
that I've
offered you in your life
00:16:45.56\00:16:46.92
and the transformation,
00:16:46.95\00:16:48.49
the sanctification
all of that kind of stuff.
00:16:48.52\00:16:50.79
And I saw that with you and Jim,
00:16:50.82\00:16:52.49
I saw that not
only with you and Jim
00:16:52.52\00:16:54.73
but shortly after
that with your churches
00:16:54.76\00:16:56.67
you opened up.
00:16:56.70\00:16:57.88
I went to a lunch at your church
00:16:57.91\00:17:00.10
where you opened up the building
00:17:00.13\00:17:01.62
to these high school
kids across the street
00:17:01.65\00:17:04.20
that they could come
and talk about those issues
00:17:04.23\00:17:06.40
that they were stuck in.
00:17:06.43\00:17:07.68
And all to do with any issues
but even sexuality, even porn
00:17:07.71\00:17:12.15
and all that kind of stuff.
00:17:12.18\00:17:13.23
And so I'm
thinking, how cool is that?
00:17:13.26\00:17:15.78
You know, you get out of hiding
00:17:15.81\00:17:17.91
and all of sudden
you can be more real
00:17:17.94\00:17:19.32
even in the community.
00:17:19.35\00:17:20.85
And I really think that
sometimes we don't get that.
00:17:20.88\00:17:23.55
As God says we're at the
end of the great controversy.
00:17:23.58\00:17:25.94
Don't hide right now. Yeah.
00:17:25.97\00:17:27.92
The demoniac
wasn't asked to hide.
00:17:27.95\00:17:29.71
Right. Right.
00:17:29.74\00:17:31.05
And one of those kids
that came to that lunch,
00:17:31.08\00:17:33.64
he was battling with
his identity sexually,
00:17:33.67\00:17:37.33
relating to homosexuality
00:17:37.36\00:17:39.30
and his pastor
had ministered to him.
00:17:39.33\00:17:41.48
I shared my own struggle.
00:17:41.51\00:17:43.66
He came to camp meeting,
00:17:43.69\00:17:45.27
not an Adventist kid but he came
00:17:45.30\00:17:47.42
and he shared his testimony
and he shared his struggles
00:17:47.45\00:17:50.70
and you could
have heard a pin drop.
00:17:50.73\00:17:52.82
And kids start to open up.
00:17:52.85\00:17:54.66
Different kids were
sharing their testimonies
00:17:54.69\00:17:56.64
of that camp
meeting about real stuff
00:17:56.67\00:17:58.39
that they were struggling with.
00:17:58.42\00:17:59.79
And there was a girl that
approached me on Friday night
00:17:59.82\00:18:02.00
and she said, Pastor Jim,
she said, when I was at school
00:18:02.03\00:18:04.99
one of my friends
approached me and said,
00:18:05.02\00:18:06.69
why do you
believe this Christianity
00:18:06.72\00:18:07.98
and stuff anyways--
00:18:08.01\00:18:09.04
I mean how do
you know that Jesus,
00:18:09.07\00:18:10.53
you know, wasn't
gay and His disciples
00:18:10.56\00:18:12.92
were weird out and, you know,
00:18:12.95\00:18:15.08
how do you know
it's even real at all.
00:18:15.11\00:18:16.72
This friend was
saying to this girl
00:18:16.75\00:18:18.24
that's talking to me
00:18:18.27\00:18:20.41
and the lady I'll call here Suzy
00:18:20.44\00:18:24.72
and the girl that
was talking to me was
00:18:24.75\00:18:27.07
Joanne not the real names.
00:18:27.10\00:18:29.20
But Suzy says to Joanne,
I can give you a religion
00:18:29.23\00:18:31.69
that really has power.
00:18:31.72\00:18:32.75
You should check
out this Wicca thing.
00:18:32.78\00:18:34.47
So Joanne starts to
get involved with Wicca
00:18:34.50\00:18:38.13
and yet she is saying to me,
00:18:38.16\00:18:40.08
she says, but after I've heard
the story of these kids here
00:18:40.11\00:18:43.28
this weekend she
says, I want what they have.
00:18:43.31\00:18:46.95
This is real, Christianity
isn't just some myth,
00:18:46.98\00:18:49.79
it is real, it is powerful
as she heard their stories.
00:18:49.82\00:18:53.68
And so I was just-- I
was still kind of just--
00:18:53.71\00:18:56.41
it's kind of so
real to think that
00:18:56.44\00:18:59.31
that thing which in
a way it seems so minor
00:18:59.34\00:19:02.76
when you are talking to
somebody like Tattoo Jim
00:19:02.79\00:19:05.68
or Michelle is
battling alcoholism.
00:19:05.71\00:19:07.78
I mean, I masturbated,
what's the big deal with that?
00:19:07.81\00:19:10.24
I mean, it seems so
minor and yet God allowed me
00:19:10.27\00:19:13.20
to go through that experience,
00:19:13.23\00:19:15.51
minister to me
in my own brokenness
00:19:15.54\00:19:17.88
and then has
given me an opportunity
00:19:17.91\00:19:20.82
to be vulnerable
in a way that allows
00:19:20.85\00:19:22.65
other people to start sharing.
00:19:22.68\00:19:24.27
It's incredible.
00:19:24.30\00:19:25.47
You know, we are
talking about the sexual stuff
00:19:25.50\00:19:29.56
but you've also
struggled with anger
00:19:29.59\00:19:31.94
and other things that are--
00:19:31.97\00:19:34.37
isn't that
finding more acceptable?
00:19:34.40\00:19:36.10
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
They are just as damaging.
00:19:36.13\00:19:38.39
But, you know, its
okay if you are angry,
00:19:38.42\00:19:39.85
but any of our sexual stuff
we really have a hard time with
00:19:39.88\00:19:42.29
and we got to stop that.
00:19:42.32\00:19:43.73
I think right now when I--
00:19:43.76\00:19:46.57
I just got back
from Canadian University,
00:19:46.60\00:19:48.78
I probably
shouldn't say the university
00:19:48.81\00:19:50.40
but we did a three
part series on recovery
00:19:50.43\00:19:55.87
and I just talked about
my husband's Brad's issues
00:19:55.90\00:19:59.89
with his actually
now sexually as a kid
00:19:59.92\00:20:02.57
and the stuff
that happened to him.
00:20:02.60\00:20:04.26
And when the
last meeting was over
00:20:04.29\00:20:06.34
at 4:30 in the afternoon
00:20:06.37\00:20:07.88
I said to the kids
if you want to stay
00:20:07.91\00:20:10.00
I'll stay until
the last one leaves
00:20:10.03\00:20:12.55
and at 4:30 in the
morning they kicked us out.
00:20:12.58\00:20:14.89
So we stayed 12
hours talking about these
00:20:14.92\00:20:17.88
very real issues that
had them in bondage and shame
00:20:17.91\00:20:21.05
and they weren't
leaving the building.
00:20:21.08\00:20:22.58
Does God still love me?
00:20:22.61\00:20:24.30
Absolutely.
00:20:24.33\00:20:25.37
But I think what if
we don't talk about it.
00:20:25.40\00:20:27.50
Where are they
gonna go for the answers
00:20:27.53\00:20:29.16
and either gonna go
to places like Wicca
00:20:29.19\00:20:31.48
or gaming staff or the
world to get the answers
00:20:31.51\00:20:34.29
when I really believed
that God says, come to Me.
00:20:34.32\00:20:36.90
If you are thirsty come to Me
00:20:36.93\00:20:39.00
and I will give
you the water of life.
00:20:39.03\00:20:41.35
You know, it's just
like all of that stuff.
00:20:41.38\00:20:43.28
And there's that truism,
00:20:43.31\00:20:44.64
we're only as
sick as our secrets.
00:20:44.67\00:20:46.25
Yeah.
00:20:46.28\00:20:47.79
And then I love the one
in Psalm 90:8 where God says
00:20:47.82\00:20:51.75
Moses is writing and he
says, "You set our secrets sins
00:20:51.78\00:20:55.39
in the life of
your countenance."
00:20:55.42\00:20:57.27
Amen. That's powerful.
00:20:57.30\00:20:59.24
You know, I
remember you saying one time
00:20:59.27\00:21:01.16
that we all have like
threshold of what we can handle
00:21:01.19\00:21:05.57
in other people's lives.
00:21:05.60\00:21:06.83
God doesn't have a threshold.
00:21:06.86\00:21:08.14
There's nothing what I ever
do that He doesn't go like this.
00:21:08.17\00:21:11.44
Amen.
00:21:11.47\00:21:12.90
All the time He's
just like, you know,
00:21:12.93\00:21:15.08
give me the best you
got and I'll transform it
00:21:15.11\00:21:18.12
through My glory and power
and make you a new creation.
00:21:18.15\00:21:21.06
We'll get through this. Yeah.
00:21:21.09\00:21:22.75
We'll get through
this, buddy. I love that.
00:21:22.78\00:21:24.51
I love that.
00:21:24.54\00:21:25.58
So what about the anger stuff?
00:21:25.61\00:21:26.90
You know, when
you even said that
00:21:26.93\00:21:29.51
you dealt with
anger cracked me up
00:21:29.54\00:21:31.01
because I thought oh, shut up,
00:21:31.04\00:21:32.21
there is no way you are--
00:21:32.24\00:21:33.89
Oh, man, I still deal with it.
00:21:33.92\00:21:35.11
Okay, so what is it look
like? What do you deal with?
00:21:35.14\00:21:37.13
And what does God say about it?
00:21:37.16\00:21:38.47
Well, I think
what I've-- you know,
00:21:38.50\00:21:40.48
there is a Psalm that says,
your gentleness makes me great.
00:21:40.51\00:21:44.24
In the Psalms there is
another verse in Philippians,
00:21:44.27\00:21:48.34
you know, there's
that one that says,
00:21:48.37\00:21:49.80
"Rejoice in the Lord always.
And again I say, rejoice!"
00:21:49.83\00:21:51.85
And then there is-- and
there is pray, you know,
00:21:51.88\00:21:55.43
"Don't be anxious for anything
but in all things with prayer
00:21:55.46\00:21:58.50
and supplication
with thanksgiving."
00:21:58.53\00:22:00.03
You know but coming
straight in between that is this
00:22:00.06\00:22:03.16
Philippians 4:5 that says,
00:22:03.19\00:22:04.67
"Let your gentleness
be made known to all.
00:22:04.70\00:22:06.74
The Lord is near."
00:22:06.77\00:22:08.47
And so Christ is inviting
us to be gentle, not angry.
00:22:08.50\00:22:12.07
Amen.
00:22:12.10\00:22:13.33
To respond when we
have anger and gentleness
00:22:13.36\00:22:18.61
and it's like a
lifelong battle for me,
00:22:18.64\00:22:21.20
but you know, I one
time when my son was young,
00:22:21.23\00:22:25.17
it kind of came to ahead,
00:22:25.20\00:22:26.82
I had some like
these prospectuses
00:22:26.85\00:22:29.91
you get for
investment or whatever,
00:22:29.94\00:22:31.33
I mean they are
kind of flimsy like this,
00:22:31.36\00:22:32.95
but they are about that thick.
00:22:32.98\00:22:34.42
And on the same week I
smacked him on the head
00:22:34.45\00:22:37.74
with those things,
furious raging inside
00:22:37.77\00:22:41.05
and in that same week
I pound him by the arms
00:22:41.08\00:22:43.98
and I pinned him to
the airborne and said,
00:22:44.01\00:22:45.56
kid, if you don't stay
but and then I realized
00:22:45.59\00:22:48.14
now if I don't shape up my kid's
00:22:48.17\00:22:49.84
not gonna want to
talkto me when he is a teen
00:22:49.87\00:22:52.03
and I'm gonna lose him.
00:22:52.06\00:22:53.35
Yeah.
00:22:53.38\00:22:54.42
And so-- and I just I started
to cry out to God and say,
00:22:54.45\00:22:58.25
"You have to do something."
00:22:58.28\00:22:59.68
And the funny thing was
00:22:59.71\00:23:00.82
even before Jay
Jay my eldest was born
00:23:00.85\00:23:03.29
is God gave me
the song it was like,
00:23:03.32\00:23:05.55
A gentleman and all you raise
00:23:05.58\00:23:06.98
with gentle hands
and a tender face,
00:23:07.01\00:23:08.44
compassionate
eyes, and a loving heart.
00:23:08.47\00:23:10.52
Truly you're gentleman.
00:23:10.55\00:23:12.37
So gentleman, take my life,
00:23:12.40\00:23:13.89
my heart and
heart, my stubborn pride
00:23:13.92\00:23:15.57
and with one touch
of your healing hand
00:23:15.60\00:23:17.50
make me a gentleman.
00:23:17.53\00:23:18.81
A gentleman in all my
ways with gentle hands
00:23:18.84\00:23:21.24
and a tender face,
compassionate eyes,
00:23:21.27\00:23:23.57
and a loving heart that my
baby might be your gentleman.
00:23:23.60\00:23:27.34
So generationally that it will.
00:23:27.37\00:23:29.44
It's like God
saved me from this anger
00:23:29.47\00:23:32.19
and if I don't have enough sleep
00:23:32.22\00:23:34.26
or if I'm running too hard,
00:23:34.29\00:23:37.50
I mean, the
hardest thing for me now
00:23:37.53\00:23:39.16
is not to pastor, not to
stand upfront, not to sing,
00:23:39.19\00:23:42.41
the hardest thing is to be
present for my kids and my wife
00:23:42.44\00:23:45.50
and be the real deal at home.
00:23:45.53\00:23:47.31
True Christianity
starts in the home.
00:23:47.34\00:23:50.21
And you got it.
00:23:50.24\00:23:51.44
You got it just even
unfold that a little bit
00:23:51.47\00:23:53.89
because I think that
that's what we lose in
00:23:53.92\00:23:55.95
is that God is saying
00:23:55.98\00:23:57.34
I'm not asking you
for these big things,
00:23:57.37\00:23:59.16
the big things
will come automatically
00:23:59.19\00:24:01.95
when you actually are present
with the people you love.
00:24:01.98\00:24:04.12
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:04.15\00:24:05.27
Present with me, with God.
00:24:05.30\00:24:07.21
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:07.24\00:24:08.63
I mean, it's a constant battle
00:24:08.66\00:24:12.03
and all I don't have
any great answers for it
00:24:12.06\00:24:16.02
other than just go
to Jesus day by day.
00:24:16.05\00:24:18.44
I think it's the same thing
00:24:18.47\00:24:19.65
when I was
dealing with masturbation
00:24:19.68\00:24:21.64
just going and saying Lord,
00:24:21.67\00:24:23.07
I'm amass with you just
have your rain in my life.
00:24:23.10\00:24:26.41
And I love when you
say that Pastor Jim,
00:24:26.44\00:24:29.39
because one of the
things that that we try to do
00:24:29.42\00:24:33.05
is we get in inside and we think
00:24:33.08\00:24:34.84
we have to strive
to now make it happen.
00:24:34.87\00:24:37.24
And you know, in
the Bible God just says,
00:24:37.27\00:24:40.17
can an Ethiopian change
the color of their skin,
00:24:40.20\00:24:42.69
you know, can a leopard
change the spots on its body.
00:24:42.72\00:24:46.40
That you cannot in
your best of the best reason
00:24:46.43\00:24:50.23
that you have you cannot bring
yourself to a healthy place
00:24:50.26\00:24:53.51
but if you surrender to
Me daily we'll get there.
00:24:53.54\00:24:56.17
Yeah.
00:24:56.20\00:24:57.23
So it is really a thing of
saying being able to say God,
00:24:57.26\00:24:59.63
I'm powerless here.
00:24:59.66\00:25:01.14
No like any 12 set
program that first recognizes
00:25:01.17\00:25:03.77
I can't do it.
00:25:03.80\00:25:04.84
I don't-- even my best thinking
00:25:04.87\00:25:06.75
I'm grabbing somebody
by this road saying, stop,
00:25:06.78\00:25:10.11
you know we have to be nice.
00:25:10.14\00:25:12.42
You know, and God says
00:25:12.45\00:25:14.35
bring it to Me, surrender to Me.
00:25:14.38\00:25:16.04
That's really about dying daily
00:25:16.07\00:25:17.39
and Pavel Goia told us
this great story recently
00:25:17.42\00:25:20.00
at gathering of prayer leaders.
00:25:20.03\00:25:21.57
He said, his dad took him
out one time because he would--
00:25:21.60\00:25:23.78
he grew up in a
communist country
00:25:23.81\00:25:25.61
and he is feeling
like, you know, upset
00:25:25.64\00:25:28.80
because his friends
were making fun of him
00:25:28.83\00:25:30.29
because of his Christianity.
00:25:30.32\00:25:32.14
And his dad takes him out
to this graveyard he says,
00:25:32.17\00:25:35.18
I want you to kick the grave
00:25:35.21\00:25:36.24
and he says no
that's disrespect.
00:25:36.27\00:25:37.47
He says, no kick
it. So he kicked it.
00:25:37.50\00:25:39.27
And then he says now
I want to say something
00:25:39.30\00:25:40.96
rude and ugly to
the person there.
00:25:40.99\00:25:44.36
He says, well,
that's disrespectful.
00:25:44.39\00:25:45.79
He says, no say it.
00:25:45.82\00:25:46.85
And so he's like,
you stupid, you stupid.
00:25:46.88\00:25:48.88
And then his dad said,
what if the person say back?
00:25:48.91\00:25:52.11
And he said, well nothing.
00:25:52.14\00:25:55.15
And he says the
reason you're offended is
00:25:55.18\00:25:56.81
because you're not dead yet.
00:25:56.84\00:25:59.18
That person is an
offendant, they are dead,
00:25:59.21\00:26:01.90
they don't say anything.
00:26:01.93\00:26:03.01
You get upset,
you get irritated,
00:26:03.04\00:26:04.59
you lose your cool whatever
00:26:04.62\00:26:06.15
because you're not dead yet.
00:26:06.18\00:26:07.40
And that's my prayers.
00:26:07.43\00:26:08.66
Lord, let me die.
00:26:08.69\00:26:10.02
Let me be dead to that flesh,
00:26:10.05\00:26:11.53
to my ownself
and alive to Christ.
00:26:11.56\00:26:14.21
Yes, when I get
anger let me just be dead.
00:26:14.24\00:26:16.63
Even though I'm angry
because anger is an emotion
00:26:16.66\00:26:18.70
it comes, it
goes but what do we do
00:26:18.73\00:26:21.05
with our anger is a question.
00:26:21.08\00:26:22.57
Amen.
00:26:22.60\00:26:23.63
We're gonna,
we're gonna take a break
00:26:23.66\00:26:25.21
but Jim, when we come back,
00:26:25.24\00:26:26.91
you know, you wrote a
song that is my favorite song
00:26:26.94\00:26:30.35
and could you open
up the next segment
00:26:30.38\00:26:32.02
with that song?
00:26:32.05\00:26:33.09
Yeah, sure.
00:26:33.12\00:26:34.39
Jim is a
songwriter, incredible stuff
00:26:34.42\00:26:36.73
and you know pastor, but
one of the gifts he has is,
00:26:36.76\00:26:40.44
is putting his
journey into music.
00:26:40.47\00:26:42.22
And so we're gonna
come back with that song
00:26:42.25\00:26:44.09
and stay with us.
00:26:44.12\00:26:45.54
You're gonna love
the rest of the story.
00:26:45.57\00:26:47.42