The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome back.
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You know I'd like to introduce
you to a friend of mine
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that I have fallen in love with,
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his name is Michael Carducci
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But before I do
that, I want to show you,
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I'm coming through this season,
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remember we always cover a book.
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This season is a
book of Celebrations
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was written by a
friend of mine name,
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Dr. Handysides,
Allan Handysides,
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and I would love
to tell you stories
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about this guy,
he's so hysterical,
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but he is also incredible
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as far as what he
knows and medically
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and he's got a whole
team that put together a book.
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It's called Celebrations,
the acronym we're gonna cover,
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the first one was choices
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and so today we're
talking about choices
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and so now that if
you'd like this book,
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man it's 10 bucks I think,
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if you don't just
watch the program.
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So, um, Michael,
when I talk about
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you and I-- you know I love you,
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and I love your
journey and that kind of stuff
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and I brought you
here on this program.
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And we are
starting this whole season
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of with choices
is there you know,
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do you relate to that,
I mean what do you think?
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Well, it's a
little abstract for me
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because you talk about choices
and I think how that applies
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but really what happened at
an age that I didn't realize
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until after I come to the
Lord is that I had made a choice
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even at a time when I
wasn't even conscious.
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You know, my
dad was in the navy,
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he be gone 3 to
6 months at a time
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and he was a hot headed Italian.
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So when he was home,
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you know, he is
very loud and abusive,
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but you know then at a time
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when I really needed to
have my gender role model,
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there my father there,
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you know to kind
of affirm my own,
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you know, gender if you would,
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he wasn't available.
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So to me I viewed
that as abandonment
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and then when he was home,
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he was so loud and
somewhat abusive that
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I rejected that masculinity.
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So what I was left
with is I had three sisters
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and a mother and
when my dad was gone--
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So when you say
three sisters and a mom,
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so you're looking
at the nurturing and--
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yeah, I feel safe here
and all that kind of stuff.
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When dad walks in,
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I don't feel
safe, I don't feel loved
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and I don't
feel like I'm enough.
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Right, right, and so I
identified with my mom,
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she was the only
other role model that I had,
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so you know, I started
playing dolls with my sisters.
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I started doing dress up.
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I thought that God
had made a mistake,
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I thought that if I was a girl
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that everything
would have been right
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'cause in
comparison to the other boys
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in my neighborhood,
um, I didn't fit in,
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I didn't
measure up if you would,
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and when they recognized
that, they started calling me
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sissy, queer,
fag, all those acronyms
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and then what happened
is I started to recognize
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that I was different than them.
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I didn't know how to fix it.
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I didn't know
how to make it right.
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So in my immature
little mind I thought,
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well, if I was a girl
then everything would be right.
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So I prayed that God would,
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you know, turn me into a girl,
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I'd wake up the next morning,
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I fantasized about
it but it didn't change,
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like even when my
mom forced me to do,
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um, literally I remember--
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Many things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Mean you're a boy,
you're gonna play soccer.
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Right, and you know what?
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There was panic.
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It wasn't something
that I enjoyed it all.
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I was terrified, anxious
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and fortunately the ball hit me
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on the face one time
and my mom let me out so.
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But I didn't ever have
any males that were there,
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that were available to affirm me
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and because I
had made that choice
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at an unconscious age for myself
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of rejecting my
dad's masculinity,
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I didn't know how to
fix it, and so that...
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And as you're talking
about even your own stuff,
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is man I wonder how
many people make choices
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before they even know,
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so I cannot even, I am 3
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and I'm making choices whether
the world is safe or not,
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or whether I'm a boy or a girl
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or where I fit or don't fit,
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I mean all of that kind of stuff
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and so you know to me
that is a huge statement,
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so that led you
into a whole lifestyle.
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Well, as I understand it now,
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um, not only
was it environmental
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but there was some
hereditary factors.
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There were sexual
sin in my mother's family
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as well as my dad's
that I didn't choose to have,
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but they came if you would,
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you know,
through the generations
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and so I was
influenced by that as well.
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As I grew up
because I didn't have
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the affirmation of
other boys around me,
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I had this
deficit, I wanted to know
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what it was like to be a
boy or to be affirmed that way,
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but because it
wasn't available to me,
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then when puberty came though--
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best way that I know to explain
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it is the sex
that is the mystery
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becomes the attraction.
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So if I had
healthy relationships
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with the other
boys in the neighborhood
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then what would
happen is that mysterious sex
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to me would have
been the female right,
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but because I played with girls,
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because I identified
with my sisters and my mom,
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that wasn't a mystery.
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My own gender was the mystery,
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so it became
sexualized when I hit puberty
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and then with
fantasy masturbation coming,
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I remember not
wanting this recognizing that
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there was
something that was incomplete
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or wrong about it.
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And so as I would even try
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to bring my mind to think about,
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you know, heterosexual thoughts,
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it still eventually just gave in
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and the masturbation
process also was a-- an escape.
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It was...
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Can I ask you?
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You know what role
shame place in that
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'cause I think
that we kind of discount
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the fact that
all the sudden now,
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because I'm not kind
of doing the normal stuff
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that now I'm
ashamed and I'm hiding
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and I'm
withdrawing and I'm doing,
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I don't want anyone to know,
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and I don't want to be
like you were teased anyway,
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I don't want to
be teased anymore,
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and I just want to fit in.
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Uh, the shame part,
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you know, I don't even think
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that I knew that
it was totally wrong
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but it wasn't something
that I felt comfortable to share
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because-- yeah,
I remember checking
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out a book in the
library in 7th grade
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and wondering what sex was like
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and I tried to
in my mind imagine
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how that could be, my parents
have shared that with me,
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um, unfortunately and I think
probably my mother regrets it
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but when my parents divorced,
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when I was 10 my mother gave me
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all of my dad's pornographies,
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so you know, um you know,
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I was exposed to
some of that kind of stuff
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and that started
that line of thinking
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but the shame that I
think I had was the fact
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that I didn't
know how to reach out,
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I didn't know how
to connect and again,
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you know, living with my mother
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and my three sisters,
I already felt isolated,
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you know from an early age.
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So what-- so in your life,
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how did that
unfold in your life,
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'cause you end up
going into high school,
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you end up going into
all that kind of stuff
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and so where did your
life-- where did this take you?
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Okay, well, I remember
I went to live with my dad
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when I was about 14
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and I eventually
went to academy and I was,
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um, you know I got baptized,
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I accepted Christ as my savior
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and I went to academy.
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The enemy is so incredible about
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planting things in our life.
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So 'cause I want to
say for a lot of times,
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people will say, you did that
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but it was not real,
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and that's is that
true or was it real,
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did I-- were you leaning towards
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like who is God
and what is that about?
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Right, in my
limited understanding,
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I accepted Jesus as my savior,
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I didn't understand the process
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that it was a work that
he wanted to do through me.
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I thought that I had to be good,
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I thought that I
had to lose 20 pounds
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before I joined the gym,
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I didn't
understand the work of grace
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and so when I went to academy...
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Those daily choices.
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Right, right, my roommate was,
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you know, in juvenile detention
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and he was, you know,
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court ordered to
go to the academy.
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So, you know,
here I have a roommate
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that's experienced
in homosexual activity.
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He recognized a weakness in me
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and within about a month
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we had engaged in that activity.
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But what was so shocking to me
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Cheri that night
when I went to bed,
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I remember crying and realizing,
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you know, that I was
now exactly everything
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that those kids have called me,
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everything that I was,
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it affirmed to me
that I was a homosexual,
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but the-- I think
the most difficult part
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was accepting the
fact that it felt good,
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it confirms something in me
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and I think that was
horrifying to me knowing that
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I wasn't in God's
plan, that this wasn't
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what he wanted you
know for me in my life,
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but I couldn't deny the
fact that it affirmed something
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and it feel something for me.
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And it felt safe.
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Yeah, um.
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No?
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No, I didn't feel
safe, I felt more alone,
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I felt rejected by even my God.
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Oh. Yeah.
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So what was amazing is,
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you know, my roommate
and I getting kicked out
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for smoking pot in the room.
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The dean found out
about the situation,
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nothing was said,
00:08:35.02\00:08:36.14
but you know, I got
right back on track,
00:08:36.17\00:08:37.58
I went to the Bible conference
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and rededicated
my life to the Lord,
00:08:40.47\00:08:42.31
got a girlfriend dated
her, you know, for 3 years
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but still I was still
addicted to the masturbation,
00:08:45.93\00:08:49.72
and that's cycle hadn't stopped
even though on the outside
00:08:49.75\00:08:53.28
I was looking
good on the outside,
00:08:53.31\00:08:55.79
but what was happening inside
was I think the same struggle
00:08:55.82\00:08:58.46
that many kids in the dorm were
struggling with this as well.
00:08:58.49\00:09:01.16
You know, with addictions
00:09:01.19\00:09:02.24
to masturbation if
I could be so bold.
00:09:02.27\00:09:04.38
What I hate about that
00:09:04.41\00:09:05.71
'cause I hear what you're saying
00:09:05.74\00:09:06.77
and what I hate about that
00:09:06.80\00:09:07.83
whether it's same
sex or opposite sex
00:09:07.86\00:09:12.10
is that we are so
afraid to say the words like,
00:09:12.13\00:09:15.38
you ever-- like even
when you say the M word
00:09:15.41\00:09:19.15
you are like, I'm
sorry you know what I mean.
00:09:19.18\00:09:21.16
And it's like
being able to sense that
00:09:21.19\00:09:22.61
we're struggling with
these really deep issues,
00:09:22.64\00:09:24.71
these identity issues
all of that kind of stuff
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and if you--
most of us are afraid.
00:09:27.22\00:09:31.37
Yes, let me tell
you something that
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just blew me away there.
00:09:33.38\00:09:34.58
It was a senior year
00:09:34.61\00:09:36.02
and we're talking
about in the late 70s
00:09:36.05\00:09:37.81
and the senior Bible
teacher took the boys aside
00:09:37.84\00:09:39.71
and the girls separate
and with the boys he said
00:09:39.74\00:09:42.49
99% of all males
masturbate, and he said 1% lie
00:09:42.52\00:09:46.30
and right there I thought,
well, if this is coming from,
00:09:46.33\00:09:48.99
you know, the Bible teacher,
00:09:49.02\00:09:50.15
I guess Jesus
just isn't powerful
00:09:50.18\00:09:51.74
enough to help me with it.
00:09:51.77\00:09:52.94
I took that as total license
00:09:52.97\00:09:55.30
and what so sad is,
is had the other like
00:09:55.33\00:09:58.00
the deans of the high
school or even other teachers,
00:09:58.03\00:10:00.85
you know, brought the guys aside
00:10:00.88\00:10:02.05
and said
there's victory in Jesus
00:10:02.08\00:10:03.72
over every sin temptation.
00:10:03.75\00:10:05.64
You know, what
profound information
00:10:05.67\00:10:07.21
that would have been for
me as 17 years old to hear,
00:10:07.24\00:10:10.20
instead what did is it, is
it reinforced this behavior
00:10:10.23\00:10:14.60
that lasted up until my 40s.
00:10:14.63\00:10:17.89
And I wish we could do
a whole program on this,
00:10:17.92\00:10:20.66
I think I'd so get fired.
00:10:20.69\00:10:22.22
Yeah.
00:10:22.25\00:10:23.63
But even getting
victory in that--
00:10:23.66\00:10:27.03
that area of your life.
00:10:27.06\00:10:28.65
It is so framed.
00:10:28.68\00:10:30.19
But it's difficult
but it's so framed,
00:10:30.22\00:10:31.90
its like all of the sudden
00:10:31.93\00:10:33.21
when-- like coming
out of, where I came from
00:10:33.24\00:10:36.51
and all the guards are
gonna un twist me sexually
00:10:36.54\00:10:39.61
and he says you know what
can we actually even go there
00:10:39.64\00:10:43.00
and I'm thinking I don't
know, you know I don't know,
00:10:43.03\00:10:45.45
I use it as a
volume, I use it as whatever
00:10:45.48\00:10:49.00
and he's like you know
what I want to go there
00:10:49.03\00:10:50.59
because you're locked
in, you're in bondage.
00:10:50.62\00:10:53.44
Cheri, that's so
perfect, when I was 17 years old
00:10:53.47\00:10:56.02
I remember
graduating high school,
00:10:56.05\00:10:57.72
knowing what was
going out of mind
00:10:57.75\00:10:59.19
and the behavior
that I was indulging
00:10:59.22\00:11:01.56
and gay rights
were just coming in,
00:11:01.59\00:11:03.23
I knew that I
had this attractions
00:11:03.26\00:11:05.17
and I remember praying to God
00:11:05.20\00:11:06.23
and I said Lord if this is
the closest we're gonna be,
00:11:06.26\00:11:08.72
I said take me now
I don't want to live,
00:11:08.75\00:11:10.45
I don't want to
make those choices,
00:11:10.48\00:11:12.23
even though I could feel them
00:11:12.26\00:11:14.23
banging at my
door, if you would--
00:11:14.26\00:11:16.82
I remember praying that prayer,
00:11:16.85\00:11:18.03
but again I
didn't understand God,
00:11:18.06\00:11:20.50
I only judged Him
according to the example
00:11:20.53\00:11:22.93
that I had with my father.
00:11:22.96\00:11:24.37
I couldn't relate to him.
00:11:24.40\00:11:25.47
He was arbitrary, judgmental,
critical and very dismissive,
00:11:25.50\00:11:29.08
so I kind of
thought that God was a same,
00:11:29.11\00:11:31.10
so when He didn't take my life,
00:11:31.13\00:11:33.38
I really thought that
it was more rejection.
00:11:33.41\00:11:35.47
What was amazing
is 20, 25 years later
00:11:35.50\00:11:39.56
it wasn't until I
was telling somebody
00:11:39.59\00:11:41.05
after I had accepted Christ
again as my savior in my 40s
00:11:41.08\00:11:43.99
that I was
telling someone about that
00:11:44.02\00:11:45.70
and I realize that
God had finally given me
00:11:45.73\00:11:48.04
the victory over
masturbation and pornography,
00:11:48.07\00:11:50.78
and I realized
now that when I was 17
00:11:50.81\00:11:52.99
that God were saying, Mike,
00:11:53.02\00:11:54.24
you're not ready,
I can't take you now.
00:11:54.27\00:11:57.03
And so I took it
that He dismiss me
00:11:57.06\00:11:58.97
but really he was saying,
00:11:59.00\00:12:00.20
I'm gonna bring it around again
00:12:00.23\00:12:02.00
and I'm gonna bring it,
00:12:02.03\00:12:03.25
you know, give you
another chance at it
00:12:03.28\00:12:05.41
and it'll be redemptive
and it will be healing.
00:12:05.44\00:12:07.10
Because I'm crazy about you.
00:12:07.13\00:12:08.85
I don't want to lose you.
00:12:08.88\00:12:10.19
Right.
00:12:10.22\00:12:11.28
So, you know, I could imagine,
00:12:11.31\00:12:13.54
you know, jumping into
the next phase of your life
00:12:13.57\00:12:17.67
that you jumped into a
world that was pretty twisted.
00:12:17.70\00:12:21.49
I wanted monogamy, I
just wanted a relationship,
00:12:21.52\00:12:24.56
I wanted to be held
and affirmed by a man.
00:12:24.59\00:12:27.84
And I think that's a legitimate
need of every male child
00:12:27.87\00:12:30.69
and if you don't get
that at the early age,
00:12:30.72\00:12:33.02
you know when boys have,
you know they play together
00:12:33.05\00:12:35.57
and they have
their forts together,
00:12:35.60\00:12:37.16
no girls allowed,
girls have cuddies.
00:12:37.19\00:12:39.18
All of that is
healthy development
00:12:39.21\00:12:40.40
and that's really what I was
longing for, and I believe--.
00:12:40.43\00:12:42.80
Even with dad too
'cause you didn't get it
00:12:42.83\00:12:44.43
with dad originally.
00:12:44.46\00:12:45.91
Right, right.
00:12:45.94\00:12:47.05
And so if you don't
get it at an early age
00:12:47.08\00:12:49.33
when it's developed,
00:12:49.36\00:12:50.46
really it's almost
like the homosexual urge
00:12:50.49\00:12:53.57
or drive there's
really just looking to repair
00:12:53.60\00:12:56.25
that gender break, right.
00:12:56.28\00:12:57.85
And so every
relationship that I was in,
00:12:57.88\00:12:59.88
the five
relationships that I was in,
00:12:59.91\00:13:02.15
I had ended up
becoming a sexual addict,
00:13:02.18\00:13:04.40
you know for me
that was my heroine.
00:13:04.43\00:13:06.47
You know every illicit encounter
00:13:06.50\00:13:08.23
actually fuelled
the desire for more.
00:13:08.26\00:13:10.25
And when I first
came into the gay culture,
00:13:10.28\00:13:12.58
I didn't want to
have sex with a man
00:13:12.61\00:13:14.55
nor that I want to
have sex with women,
00:13:14.58\00:13:16.57
I wanted to beheld,
I wanted to be loved,
00:13:16.60\00:13:19.02
I wanted to be
affirmed and the sad thing
00:13:19.05\00:13:21.16
was as I could only get that
00:13:21.19\00:13:23.39
when I engaged in
a illicit behavior.
00:13:23.42\00:13:26.04
So my initial intent to
have monogamous relationship,
00:13:26.07\00:13:29.71
I ended up hooking up
with a man that was like
00:13:29.74\00:13:31.84
9 years older than me
that was a sexual addict
00:13:31.87\00:13:34.35
and he introduced
me to S&M behavior.
00:13:34.38\00:13:37.02
I was raped by my
first boyfriend, I remember,
00:13:37.05\00:13:39.96
you know, being
chained to furniture
00:13:39.99\00:13:41.58
and things that I'd
never even thought of,
00:13:41.61\00:13:45.08
I would even engage in it.
00:13:45.11\00:13:46.73
And here I was allowing this
person to treat me this way,
00:13:46.76\00:13:50.50
all because of
I was so desperate
00:13:50.53\00:13:52.45
for that kind of love and
I thought that was really,
00:13:52.48\00:13:54.90
I remember being
24 years old thinking,
00:13:54.93\00:13:57.51
well, I guess this
is the best I can do,
00:13:57.54\00:13:59.42
I really should stay
in this relationship.
00:13:59.45\00:14:01.54
But what happened is
when the relationship was over
00:14:01.57\00:14:03.88
that addictive
cycle had already begun,
00:14:03.91\00:14:06.40
dirty book stores, pornography,
00:14:06.43\00:14:08.79
picking up men in traffic,
book stores and whatever.
00:14:08.82\00:14:12.22
And also just
shouting out or screaming out
00:14:12.25\00:14:15.79
that I'm never
gonna be just loved.
00:14:15.82\00:14:18.82
This is never gonna
actually be safe that
00:14:18.85\00:14:21.00
this is the best I could do.
00:14:21.03\00:14:22.49
I'm gonna have to
accept this as normal.
00:14:22.52\00:14:24.23
Well, I still was pursuing that
00:14:24.26\00:14:26.54
and I was hoping
that it was possible
00:14:26.57\00:14:28.74
but the addictive
cycle was so ingrained in me,
00:14:28.77\00:14:32.04
I remember saying,
00:14:32.07\00:14:33.57
well, I'm moving with
this guy, if I can stop,
00:14:33.60\00:14:36.37
you know, picking
people up or whatever.
00:14:36.40\00:14:38.44
And in the two and a half years
00:14:38.47\00:14:39.52
that we did as it much
as I cared for this person,
00:14:39.55\00:14:41.93
I couldn't stop this
thing that had already begun.
00:14:41.96\00:14:44.50
You know, I was
constantly looking for it.
00:14:44.53\00:14:47.15
Remember in
Genesis, it talks about
00:14:47.18\00:14:48.61
how men's thoughts were
evil only continuously right,
00:14:48.64\00:14:52.24
and I identify with that,
00:14:52.27\00:14:53.65
no matter how much
I wanted to be good,
00:14:53.68\00:14:56.03
I could not stop
my illicit behavior.
00:14:56.06\00:14:58.94
So, you know, I
want to ask you know,
00:14:58.97\00:15:02.17
how did-- how did God reach you?
00:15:02.20\00:15:04.48
I mean in an honest way,
00:15:04.51\00:15:06.12
'cause I mean, you know, to me
00:15:06.15\00:15:07.19
if we get the image
of God in that check list
00:15:07.22\00:15:09.26
and He is just
trying to get us to change,
00:15:09.29\00:15:11.26
we'll never-- will
never see his heart.
00:15:11.29\00:15:14.01
But how did that
finally happened for you?
00:15:14.04\00:15:16.69
You know, God never pulled
the rug out from under me.
00:15:16.72\00:15:19.34
What was amazing is
the fifth relationship
00:15:19.37\00:15:21.28
that I was in was
with a very good looking
00:15:21.31\00:15:24.07
guy with big arms
and big blue eyes.
00:15:24.10\00:15:25.75
He was a millionaire,
00:15:25.78\00:15:27.14
you know, was very
successful in my career
00:15:27.17\00:15:29.24
doing television people
for the hair and things.
00:15:29.27\00:15:32.59
I was surrounded by people
00:15:32.62\00:15:34.09
that accepted me in
that lifestyle in us.
00:15:34.12\00:15:36.52
And what was so amazing
00:15:36.55\00:15:37.69
is God used
somebody that I hated.
00:15:37.72\00:15:39.66
My sister had been a Christian
00:15:39.69\00:15:41.79
and her and her
husband had divorce,
00:15:41.82\00:15:43.53
he left her for an unlined
affair with an old girlfriend
00:15:43.56\00:15:46.78
and after 3
years of him being gone
00:15:46.81\00:15:49.21
and not taking
care of his family
00:15:49.24\00:15:51.24
or any obligation, he came back
00:15:51.27\00:15:54.93
and him and my
sister fell in love again
00:15:54.96\00:15:56.81
and they were getting married
00:15:56.84\00:15:57.88
and I thought she
was an absolute idiot
00:15:57.91\00:15:59.85
and I went to the
wedding, right, right,
00:15:59.88\00:16:01.75
and I'm sitting there
00:16:01.78\00:16:02.94
and I go oh, yeah,
here comes this guy right
00:16:02.97\00:16:04.78
and he is getting baptized
00:16:04.81\00:16:05.97
and as he is
coming into the water,
00:16:06.00\00:16:07.84
I'm thinking, whoa,
00:16:07.87\00:16:08.90
you know, he
picks up the microphone
00:16:08.93\00:16:09.99
and I go what is he
got to say jerk, right.
00:16:10.02\00:16:12.70
And as he came into the water,
00:16:12.73\00:16:14.45
he then confessed
his sin to the church
00:16:14.48\00:16:17.31
and he said I want to
make it right with God today,
00:16:17.34\00:16:20.62
so that I can make it
right to Lord tomorrow.
00:16:20.65\00:16:22.89
And I was in the
presence of the Holy Spirit.
00:16:22.92\00:16:24.91
This man that I hated I
knew that, that wasn't him,
00:16:24.94\00:16:28.32
and as I was in the
presence of the Holy Spirit,
00:16:28.35\00:16:30.57
top of my game thinking I
had the world by the tail.
00:16:30.60\00:16:33.29
I started to feel the
presence of the Holy Spirit,
00:16:33.32\00:16:36.35
and that night I
was all set to go out,
00:16:36.38\00:16:38.56
and fool around even I had
this great boyfriend at home,
00:16:38.59\00:16:41.04
you know, I had a hotel room,
00:16:41.07\00:16:42.34
I knew where the gay bars were,
00:16:42.37\00:16:43.48
I rented a car,
I had it all set,
00:16:43.51\00:16:45.69
but it was like that
night that I was wrestling
00:16:45.72\00:16:47.43
like Jacob was
wrestling with Jesus.
00:16:47.46\00:16:49.48
And you know, I couldn't get up,
00:16:49.51\00:16:51.51
I couldn't go out, I
couldn't leave my hotel room,
00:16:51.54\00:16:53.76
but I couldn't go to sleep.
00:16:53.79\00:16:55.21
I was wrestling all night long
00:16:55.24\00:16:56.62
with what I had beheld that day,
00:16:56.65\00:16:58.70
and what was amazing
is just within 2 months
00:16:58.73\00:17:01.80
I was a baptized
member in the church
00:17:01.83\00:17:04.17
and the night
before I got baptized,
00:17:04.20\00:17:05.34
I still had the boyfriend,
00:17:05.37\00:17:06.40
I still had the sexual addiction
00:17:06.43\00:17:08.30
but the night before I
got baptized the pastor said--
00:17:08.33\00:17:11.47
Only 'cause God has
so much absolute grace.
00:17:11.50\00:17:13.85
Isn't that amazing?
00:17:13.88\00:17:14.95
He fills absolute grace,
00:17:14.98\00:17:16.19
'cause I just want to say
and I didn't want to interrupt
00:17:16.22\00:17:18.03
but I want to say to--
I want to shout out loud.
00:17:18.06\00:17:20.91
My sister still has
a stripper porn sight
00:17:20.94\00:17:24.12
all that kind of stuff,
00:17:24.15\00:17:25.50
and I watch God try to reach her
00:17:25.53\00:17:27.90
and in somebody
says, well, you know, what
00:17:27.93\00:17:29.68
I don't think God
reaches out to strippers
00:17:29.71\00:17:32.47
and I'm thinking if he
didn't, we would cease to exist.
00:17:32.50\00:17:35.64
This God reach out to
people in the gay life,
00:17:35.67\00:17:37.81
so if he didn't we
would cease to exist.
00:17:37.84\00:17:40.32
He reaches out to
us if we have breath.
00:17:40.35\00:17:42.83
We could be making this
the most self destructive
00:17:42.86\00:17:46.33
choices out there and
God says you know what?
00:17:46.36\00:17:49.81
I'm so longing for
relationship with you
00:17:49.84\00:17:53.88
and to me as you tell the story,
00:17:53.91\00:17:55.46
I just want to
kiss God on the face
00:17:55.49\00:17:57.26
and say man,
thanking you for loving him,
00:17:57.29\00:17:59.57
and loving him right
back into a relationship
00:17:59.60\00:18:02.26
so you-- you're getting it,
00:18:02.29\00:18:04.40
you're hearing the Holy
Spirits still in this lifestyle,
00:18:04.43\00:18:06.85
still doing
everything that you were doing
00:18:06.88\00:18:09.67
and then what?
00:18:09.70\00:18:10.76
I mean 'cause there
is a point where you--
00:18:10.79\00:18:11.94
'cause I know
you're in ministry now.
00:18:11.97\00:18:14.53
All right, so the night
that I'm about to be baptized,
00:18:14.56\00:18:16.78
my sister said what are you
gonna do about your boyfriend?
00:18:16.81\00:18:19.19
And I looked at her, I
got it that Jesus love me,
00:18:19.22\00:18:21.59
I got it that He accepted
me exactly where it was,
00:18:21.62\00:18:24.49
and I looked at my
sister I said I'm gay,
00:18:24.52\00:18:26.02
I was born this
way, this is who I am,
00:18:26.05\00:18:27.98
I tried to
changed, it never happened,
00:18:28.01\00:18:29.49
I prayed that it would change
00:18:29.52\00:18:31.23
and my sister, I believe
was moved by the Holy Spirit
00:18:31.26\00:18:33.61
'cause she's stopped.
00:18:33.64\00:18:34.70
And the next day I was baptized
00:18:34.73\00:18:36.41
and the only verse in the Bible
that really stands out to me
00:18:36.44\00:18:39.24
is that God says, "My
ways are not your ways
00:18:39.27\00:18:41.53
and my thoughts
are not your thoughts."
00:18:41.56\00:18:43.15
And I believe that God
allowed me to be baptized
00:18:43.18\00:18:45.09
and He began
that journey with me,
00:18:45.12\00:18:46.97
He gave me what His
truth was in His word
00:18:47.00\00:18:49.44
and even in my
ignorance then I said,
00:18:49.47\00:18:51.54
how dare you God,
you know create me gay
00:18:51.57\00:18:53.95
and then tell me
I'm in abomination.
00:18:53.98\00:18:55.39
That-- that's not fair.
00:18:55.42\00:18:57.24
You know, if
salvation is good for them
00:18:57.27\00:18:59.08
but not for me, then
that's even more rejection
00:18:59.11\00:19:01.64
and that's even in my ignorance,
00:19:01.67\00:19:03.68
Jesus said keep
walking with me Mike,
00:19:03.71\00:19:05.87
and as I kept walking with Him,
00:19:05.90\00:19:07.67
every time I fell He said get up
00:19:07.70\00:19:09.19
and I would even test Him,
00:19:09.22\00:19:10.64
I would even-- I
would even act out,
00:19:10.67\00:19:12.81
you know,
sexually and just said,
00:19:12.84\00:19:14.21
you still want me now God?
00:19:14.24\00:19:15.50
You know after what I've done
00:19:15.53\00:19:16.92
and what I kept
hearing from Him is, yes,
00:19:16.95\00:19:19.46
no matter what
you've done to me Mike,
00:19:19.49\00:19:21.44
I still want
you and he knew that
00:19:21.47\00:19:23.26
some of my acting
out was the rejection
00:19:23.29\00:19:25.43
that I experienced from men
and my desperation to find out,
00:19:25.46\00:19:28.89
you know,
everybody else has left me,
00:19:28.92\00:19:30.17
are you gonna be there for
me God if I really act out?
00:19:30.20\00:19:33.17
And He still kept
saying, get back up Mike,
00:19:33.20\00:19:35.13
I want you and that became
00:19:35.16\00:19:37.58
the motivation to
want to do better--
00:19:37.61\00:19:41.31
Michael, you've shared
with me a dream and it actually,
00:19:41.34\00:19:45.86
I think in the
moment you shared it
00:19:45.89\00:19:47.17
it with me it changed me,
00:19:47.20\00:19:49.14
and can you share that with us?
00:19:49.17\00:19:50.60
Yeah, you know, I wish
that this was years ago
00:19:50.63\00:19:53.47
but it was only
just a few months ago,
00:19:53.50\00:19:56.33
and something
that I had given into.
00:19:56.36\00:19:57.81
And I knew that it was
wrong and in my own rebellion,
00:19:57.84\00:20:01.74
I had acted out against God
00:20:01.77\00:20:03.14
and I confessed it
and I was repenting.
00:20:03.17\00:20:05.41
And I-- and one of the things
00:20:05.44\00:20:07.14
that I say now is I say,
00:20:07.17\00:20:08.52
Lord, help me to
experience what I really did,
00:20:08.55\00:20:12.46
like it's not
just that I acted out
00:20:12.49\00:20:13.82
but let me know, Lord,
00:20:13.85\00:20:15.33
how it did, what it did to you?
00:20:15.36\00:20:18.05
And so I was
having the meditation
00:20:18.08\00:20:19.65
and because I'm a hair dresser,
00:20:19.68\00:20:21.57
I tend to be a
little bit outside the box
00:20:21.60\00:20:23.27
so in this
meditation all of the sudden
00:20:23.30\00:20:25.48
I'm holding someone's arm.
00:20:25.51\00:20:26.75
And I go why am I
holding someone's arm
00:20:26.78\00:20:28.94
and I'm thinking
whose arm am I holding,
00:20:28.97\00:20:30.54
and so I followed the arm
00:20:30.57\00:20:31.92
and I looked down and it's Jesus
00:20:31.95\00:20:34.29
and He is laying
down on the cross,
00:20:34.32\00:20:35.82
and I'm holding His arm
because my sin required that
00:20:35.85\00:20:39.25
I drive that
nail through His hand
00:20:39.28\00:20:41.54
and I'm looking at Jesus' face
00:20:41.57\00:20:43.26
and I'm expecting
judgment, I'm expecting,
00:20:43.29\00:20:46.11
you know, a condemnation
00:20:46.14\00:20:48.30
but what I see
in His face is love,
00:20:48.33\00:20:50.97
compassion and this confidence
00:20:51.00\00:20:54.07
like this holy confidence.
00:20:54.10\00:20:55.99
And He gives me like this
look, like go ahead, do it.
00:20:56.02\00:21:00.10
And I'm like no, what I
don't want to drive that nail
00:21:00.13\00:21:01.91
through Your hand and He
says, no, you have to do it.
00:21:01.94\00:21:04.76
That's why I'm
here and you could see
00:21:04.79\00:21:06.74
the confidence and determination
00:21:06.77\00:21:08.48
that this must be done
and he'd submitted to it.
00:21:08.51\00:21:11.33
I took your sin
on. That's right.
00:21:11.36\00:21:13.18
Even in the midst
of your acting out,
00:21:13.21\00:21:15.36
I died for you.
00:21:15.39\00:21:16.56
Right, and so--.
00:21:16.59\00:21:17.65
You do accept that.
00:21:17.68\00:21:18.75
It really
brought me to the reality
00:21:18.78\00:21:21.27
of what my sin had
done to Jesus and I--
00:21:21.30\00:21:25.25
you know I didn't want to
drive the nail though His hand
00:21:25.28\00:21:27.05
but that was what it caused Him.
00:21:27.08\00:21:29.12
He was showing me
every time that I fall,
00:21:29.15\00:21:31.66
every time that I'm rebellious,
00:21:31.69\00:21:33.13
every time that I
give in to doing something
00:21:33.16\00:21:35.21
that I willfully
know that I'm doing.
00:21:35.24\00:21:37.13
I'm driving that
nail through His hand.
00:21:37.16\00:21:40.60
And He says--
00:21:40.63\00:21:41.81
It's okay.
00:21:41.84\00:21:42.90
I know it's gonna happen.
00:21:42.93\00:21:43.98
It has to happen.
00:21:44.01\00:21:45.06
And I really believe like
and we're gonna open it up
00:21:45.09\00:21:47.63
for the cafe for
questions, but I really believe
00:21:47.66\00:21:50.33
that what he is
saying to is that,
00:21:50.36\00:21:51.92
you know, this is not something
00:21:51.95\00:21:55.05
that I'm
encouraging you to act out,
00:21:55.08\00:21:57.28
because I've already done it.
00:21:57.31\00:21:58.72
He's just saying I
know where you're at,
00:21:58.75\00:22:01.06
I know you are stumbling,
I know you are still in pain,
00:22:01.09\00:22:03.14
I know you still
have no idea who you are.
00:22:03.17\00:22:06.46
Ah, Cheri, this is the part,
00:22:06.49\00:22:08.82
you know, I
speak with men online
00:22:08.85\00:22:11.20
from Australia to
my next door neighbor
00:22:11.23\00:22:14.06
about them who had fallen in
00:22:14.09\00:22:16.05
and are addicted to pornography
00:22:16.08\00:22:17.34
and masturbation
and the desperation--
00:22:17.37\00:22:19.39
Trying to help
them at this point.
00:22:19.42\00:22:20.85
Right. And, and--
00:22:20.88\00:22:22.90
I just have to clarify that.
00:22:22.93\00:22:24.07
Right, right.
00:22:24.10\00:22:25.15
And so one of the things that
00:22:25.18\00:22:26.69
I really want to
communicate to them
00:22:26.72\00:22:30.30
is that no matter
what you're going through,
00:22:30.33\00:22:32.38
one of the things that I realize
00:22:32.41\00:22:34.04
is the only
difference between the lost
00:22:34.07\00:22:36.12
and the saved is that
the lost have not come
00:22:36.15\00:22:40.00
and claimed what is
already been provided for them.
00:22:40.03\00:22:42.43
And not that
it's a license to sin
00:22:42.46\00:22:44.71
but if I understand that
every sin has been accounted for
00:22:44.74\00:22:47.80
and it's like my shame
and my guilt would keep me
00:22:47.83\00:22:50.49
from coming to my savior
and asking for the cleansing,
00:22:50.52\00:22:53.38
but when I did Jesus said,
00:22:53.41\00:22:55.30
Mike, it was taken
care of 2,000 years ago
00:22:55.33\00:22:58.08
everything has
been accomplished.
00:22:58.11\00:22:59.99
And the only reason that you
would miss out on eternal life
00:23:00.02\00:23:03.95
is because you didn't
choose to repent of your sin
00:23:03.98\00:23:06.54
because I already know about it,
00:23:06.57\00:23:08.49
it's already been punished for,
00:23:08.52\00:23:10.78
the account has been settled
00:23:10.81\00:23:12.71
and if you will just
accept a gift, it's yours.
00:23:12.74\00:23:16.29
And so one of the
things that I say to people
00:23:16.32\00:23:18.09
who are really struggling
with the guilt and condemnation,
00:23:18.12\00:23:20.41
men who are married you know
00:23:20.44\00:23:21.65
and fooling
around on their wives
00:23:21.68\00:23:23.24
or addicted to pornography
00:23:23.27\00:23:24.64
or whatever is I say it's
already been accomplished,
00:23:24.67\00:23:27.96
I said don't let the enemy,
00:23:27.99\00:23:29.86
you know, tell you
there's guilt and the shame
00:23:29.89\00:23:31.95
and keep you from running
to the one who makes you clean.
00:23:31.98\00:23:35.72
You know, I know that do you
00:23:35.75\00:23:36.92
with your ministry
Coming Out Ministries.
00:23:36.95\00:23:38.99
When you talk about,
you're talking to men
00:23:39.02\00:23:40.57
about them
cheating on their wives.
00:23:40.60\00:23:41.99
They're cheating on their
wives with male and females.
00:23:42.02\00:23:44.25
So this is what you deal within
your ministry all the time,
00:23:44.28\00:23:47.10
so it's pretty edgy.
00:23:47.13\00:23:48.22
Right.
00:23:48.25\00:23:49.91
We have a few more minutes
00:23:49.94\00:23:51.14
before I want to
open it up for questions.
00:23:51.17\00:23:53.77
Tell me I know that you've got
so many victories in your life.
00:23:53.80\00:23:58.11
What is one incident
where you can think of that,
00:23:58.14\00:24:00.66
you know, this was
directly God speaking to me.
00:24:00.69\00:24:04.91
I needed something practical,
00:24:04.94\00:24:06.83
I needed to know
that if I apply the steps
00:24:06.86\00:24:09.54
that something would
work and I was desperate
00:24:09.57\00:24:11.57
for that even as walking
as Christian for seven years.
00:24:11.60\00:24:15.03
It wasn't until
I heard this person
00:24:15.06\00:24:16.69
just really
breakdown Philippians 2:5 says,
00:24:16.72\00:24:19.77
"Let this mind be in you
which was in Christ Jesus."
00:24:19.80\00:24:23.19
And what they
basically started to say is that
00:24:23.22\00:24:25.19
I can't put Christ in my
pocket or have a around me,
00:24:25.22\00:24:28.40
he needs to be in me.
00:24:28.43\00:24:29.78
And so Jesus isn't homosexual,
00:24:29.81\00:24:31.82
Jesus wasn't
addicted to pornography,
00:24:31.85\00:24:34.64
and so sin
originates in the mind
00:24:34.67\00:24:37.43
and so as I
allowed Christ in my mind,
00:24:37.46\00:24:40.17
if I just give Him Permission,
00:24:40.20\00:24:41.57
He begins to work, right.
00:24:41.60\00:24:42.78
I start changing the thoughts,
00:24:42.81\00:24:44.58
I started getting
victory over the thoughts
00:24:44.61\00:24:45.97
because I'm
thinking His thoughts, right.
00:24:46.00\00:24:48.38
And so what I
realized is one day
00:24:48.41\00:24:50.96
I was so tempted
to give in to sin
00:24:50.99\00:24:54.22
and the feeling was overwhelming
00:24:54.25\00:24:56.46
and again I just thought,
00:24:56.49\00:24:57.63
well, let me put
this into practice,
00:24:57.66\00:24:59.09
does it really work?
00:24:59.12\00:25:00.15
Is it really that simple
and the profound part about
00:25:00.18\00:25:02.81
that verse is
the first word let.
00:25:02.84\00:25:05.23
And what I realized is
that all I have to do--
00:25:05.26\00:25:07.67
the only thing I can do
is give Jesus permission
00:25:07.70\00:25:11.23
to give me His thoughts
and as I-- I said and I said,
00:25:11.26\00:25:14.09
Lord, I'm giving You permission
00:25:14.12\00:25:15.66
to take this thoughts
out of my mind right now
00:25:15.69\00:25:17.33
because if you don't,
00:25:17.36\00:25:18.51
I'm gonna give
into that behavior
00:25:18.54\00:25:20.05
and within three seconds, Cheri,
00:25:20.08\00:25:21.67
I was thinking about
baseball and I hate baseball.
00:25:21.70\00:25:24.73
What was amazing
is I got this victory
00:25:24.76\00:25:26.72
within that second
and I started to realize.
00:25:26.75\00:25:29.05
You know what it
was really funny?
00:25:29.08\00:25:30.13
'Cause I bet you were
thinking out about baseball
00:25:30.16\00:25:32.23
'cause God knew that,
00:25:32.26\00:25:33.29
that would make
you laugh almost,
00:25:33.32\00:25:35.13
'cause it's ridiculous.
00:25:35.16\00:25:36.54
You know, I
remembered just saying,
00:25:36.57\00:25:38.75
Lord, You are so good
00:25:38.78\00:25:40.35
that You can change
my thoughts like that,
00:25:40.38\00:25:42.00
because even when
I'd try on my own,
00:25:42.03\00:25:44.20
I could never change
my thoughts about that,
00:25:44.23\00:25:45.79
I couldn't turn around
00:25:45.82\00:25:46.92
those sensual
sexual thoughts in my head.
00:25:46.95\00:25:49.49
But He was able to do it
00:25:49.52\00:25:51.03
just because I
gave Him permission,
00:25:51.06\00:25:52.82
I don't have to lose 20 pounds
00:25:52.85\00:25:54.32
before I joined the gym.
00:25:54.35\00:25:55.70
I can have the
victory today right now.
00:25:55.73\00:25:58.09
Exactly, what's incredible
about that is that when,
00:25:58.12\00:26:01.55
when-- and you
are talking about,
00:26:01.58\00:26:03.39
you know, gay issues and porn
00:26:03.42\00:26:04.83
and stuff that always
kind of grade some people
00:26:04.86\00:26:06.96
'cause it feels like,
oh, that's not my problem.
00:26:06.99\00:26:10.27
It's one of the
number one problems in the US
00:26:10.30\00:26:12.42
and worldwide,
00:26:12.45\00:26:14.19
most of us
struggle with our sexual
00:26:14.22\00:26:16.43
identity issues in some way.
00:26:16.46\00:26:19.14
But you know when God says,
I'll change your very desires,
00:26:19.17\00:26:21.82
I literally will come in
not rob you of your sexuality
00:26:21.85\00:26:26.20
but anoint it cleaned it
up and hand it back to you.
00:26:26.23\00:26:28.49
Ah, Cheri, I think a
lot of people do that,
00:26:28.52\00:26:31.12
they say Lord take
these thoughts away,
00:26:31.15\00:26:32.60
or, Lord, you know,
take this feelings away
00:26:32.63\00:26:35.15
and God gave us those
feelings as a blessing.
00:26:35.18\00:26:38.07
What He ask us to do,
00:26:38.10\00:26:39.19
is to rain them in
and submit them to Him.
00:26:39.22\00:26:41.79
Because His ideal isn't
to take away the blessing,
00:26:41.82\00:26:45.11
His ideal is to
teach us the discipline
00:26:45.14\00:26:47.25
of handing it over to Him,
00:26:47.28\00:26:48.75
to give real
victory in our life.
00:26:48.78\00:26:50.11
And so I was
praying that same prayer
00:26:50.14\00:26:52.22
not getting the
results I wanted,
00:26:52.25\00:26:54.06
because I wasn't understanding
what God wants to give me
00:26:54.09\00:26:58.48
and what He wants to
teach me to discipline.
00:26:58.51\00:27:00.84
Absolutely and the
choice you made that,
00:27:00.87\00:27:03.62
you know, we talked about
choices on this first segment,
00:27:03.65\00:27:07.31
but the choices you make it,
00:27:07.34\00:27:08.40
that basic choice
that I'm gonna believe God,
00:27:08.43\00:27:10.79
if He says that
if it's in His word,
00:27:10.82\00:27:12.48
if He says He's
gonna change my mind,
00:27:12.51\00:27:14.07
if He can do that,
00:27:14.10\00:27:15.61
if He could change my
very thoughts and desires,
00:27:15.64\00:27:17.50
I'm gonna chose to let Him.
00:27:17.53\00:27:19.54
Let Him, not strive to do it,
00:27:19.57\00:27:21.63
not figure out how
I'm gonna do it better
00:27:21.66\00:27:23.49
but just let Him and,
man, if we could get that,
00:27:23.52\00:27:26.87
if we could get
that the Holy Spirit
00:27:26.90\00:27:29.40
and God Jesus the whole
thing would make sense to us.
00:27:29.43\00:27:32.45
So we're gonna open up
the cafe for questions.
00:27:32.48\00:27:35.03
We're gonna start here
00:27:35.06\00:27:36.52
'cause I know that
you had a question.
00:27:36.55\00:27:38.53
Yes, Mike, my name is
Bob, I'm from North Carolina.
00:27:38.56\00:27:43.45
I'm curious about
the aspect of pornography
00:27:43.48\00:27:46.24
and how much of a role it played
00:27:46.27\00:27:48.92
in you accepting
lifestyle you did.
00:27:48.95\00:27:51.92
I was addicted to pornography
00:27:51.95\00:27:53.32
from the very early age
probably around 7-8 years old
00:27:53.35\00:27:56.14
and that last lasted
until I was 51 years old,
00:27:56.17\00:27:58.34
when I accepted God
and asked Him into my life
00:27:58.37\00:28:01.99
which is only been
about 16 years ago.
00:28:02.02\00:28:04.70
The masturbation
was a total addiction
00:28:04.73\00:28:08.24
and that was the
really the last addiction
00:28:08.27\00:28:10.74
I was able to give up,
00:28:10.77\00:28:11.82
that's the last
victory that God gave me,
00:28:11.85\00:28:15.37
alcohol, tobacco,
street drugs, caffeine
00:28:15.40\00:28:17.52
all these other things
God had already dealt with,
00:28:17.55\00:28:19.88
but that was the last one.
00:28:19.91\00:28:20.94
And even several months
after I became a Christian,
00:28:20.97\00:28:23.38
after I turned
my life over to God
00:28:23.41\00:28:24.98
that was still a
very strong addiction,
00:28:25.01\00:28:27.94
I had tapered off,
decided this was not right.
00:28:27.97\00:28:30.26
I shouldn't be doing this
00:28:30.29\00:28:31.63
and over a
period of several months
00:28:31.66\00:28:33.10
God probably convicted me
00:28:33.13\00:28:34.53
that you just need
to stop all together,
00:28:34.56\00:28:36.57
was that-- did
play a substantial role
00:28:36.60\00:28:40.19
in the lifestyle
that you accepted.
00:28:40.22\00:28:42.23
Well, you said
your father you ended up
00:28:42.26\00:28:43.67
with your father's pornography,
00:28:43.70\00:28:44.77
was there enough in that
00:28:44.80\00:28:46.05
to lead you also
into the gay lifestyle?
00:28:46.08\00:28:49.70
I think that the
enemy was able to use
00:28:49.73\00:28:52.08
the images that I
was putting in my mind,
00:28:52.11\00:28:53.80
the pornography
was-- was straight porn
00:28:53.83\00:28:56.08
and you know was
just playboy magazines so,
00:28:56.11\00:28:58.55
that wasn't
changing my attractions
00:28:58.58\00:29:01.70
that had already been set
00:29:01.73\00:29:02.76
because of the
rejection of males in my life.
00:29:02.79\00:29:06.03
But definitely I believe that,
00:29:06.06\00:29:08.72
that if our thoughts
aren't focused on things
00:29:08.75\00:29:10.82
that Jesus would focus on,
00:29:10.85\00:29:12.11
if He's not the
center of our thoughts,
00:29:12.14\00:29:14.34
then the enemy is
and the enemy can use
00:29:14.37\00:29:16.89
straight porn or gay porn.
00:29:16.92\00:29:19.01
Because it is so powerful
and what's really awful about
00:29:19.04\00:29:22.94
that is studies
statistically speaking says that
00:29:22.97\00:29:25.90
if I get lost in any
kind of porn addiction both--
00:29:25.93\00:29:28.75
whether a male or
female that I'm able to connect
00:29:28.78\00:29:31.79
and love the
people around me 3-7%.
00:29:31.82\00:29:34.98
So then I'm more disconnected,
00:29:35.01\00:29:37.31
so I start to get
more and more isolated
00:29:37.34\00:29:39.33
even if I'm
surrounded by a ton of folks
00:29:39.36\00:29:42.04
which makes me
act out even more.
00:29:42.07\00:29:44.08
So I really
believe it's such a cycle,
00:29:44.11\00:29:46.41
it's so-- it
never lets go of you.
00:29:46.44\00:29:51.61
Cheri, what you
said is so profound
00:29:51.64\00:29:53.81
because what we found in studies
00:29:53.84\00:29:56.43
is that there's
an OP that's released
00:29:56.46\00:29:57.98
when you have a sexual
release, so the enemy knows that
00:29:58.01\00:30:00.29
if he can get
you focused on that,
00:30:00.32\00:30:01.81
that is your heroine,
it's almost just like heroine,
00:30:01.84\00:30:04.66
so what happens is you
build up this dependency on that
00:30:04.69\00:30:07.37
and the more you are pursuing
00:30:07.40\00:30:09.07
what God had intended you to be,
00:30:09.10\00:30:10.90
he intended you to
be an intimate person.
00:30:10.93\00:30:13.28
God himself in the trinity
is an intimacy lock thing,
00:30:13.31\00:30:18.19
so He's trying to
be intimate with us
00:30:18.22\00:30:20.13
this-- the
breakdown the cheat is
00:30:20.16\00:30:22.44
that the enemy has given
you false intimacy with images
00:30:22.47\00:30:26.16
when you really made to
be intimate with one person,
00:30:26.19\00:30:29.07
that person that
God has blessed you
00:30:29.10\00:30:30.46
within your relationship, right.
00:30:30.49\00:30:32.09
And so that's the sad part,
is that we sell ourselves out
00:30:32.12\00:30:35.51
of what God had
intended us to be.
00:30:35.54\00:30:36.60
And it's not real,
it's not actual connection.
00:30:36.63\00:30:38.22
That's right.
00:30:38.25\00:30:39.35
We are more lonely and we jumped
00:30:39.38\00:30:41.38
to the addiction of
the seduction even more.
00:30:41.41\00:30:43.99
What's really, you know, to me
00:30:44.02\00:30:45.78
when I even look at all of that
00:30:45.81\00:30:47.15
and I start to pay attention
to all of that is God says now,
00:30:47.18\00:30:50.94
what if you trust me
00:30:50.97\00:30:52.52
I would literally
like to untwist you
00:30:52.55\00:30:54.77
and reconnect you
with people that are real.
00:30:54.80\00:30:57.15
And when somebody
says we need to be
00:30:57.18\00:30:59.45
and please don't
get offended by this,
00:30:59.48\00:31:01.64
but when you say we
need to be more Christ like
00:31:01.67\00:31:03.49
or connected with Christ as
an addicted, addicted person,
00:31:03.52\00:31:08.94
you know, I have no
idea what you just said,
00:31:08.97\00:31:10.79
what do you mean?
00:31:10.82\00:31:12.05
Do I need to get wings?
00:31:12.08\00:31:13.11
Do I need to sums out,
00:31:13.14\00:31:14.24
just sing hymn
songs the rest of my life,
00:31:14.27\00:31:17.74
I didn't realize
but when I want to be
00:31:17.77\00:31:19.63
more Christ like, I
need to laugh out loud,
00:31:19.66\00:31:21.94
I need to connect
with the people I love,
00:31:21.97\00:31:23.96
I need to be able to
tell somebody I love you
00:31:23.99\00:31:26.21
and actually feel it and mean it
00:31:26.24\00:31:27.57
and connect with
that and it doesn't mean
00:31:27.60\00:31:29.48
that I need to quote
scripture the rest of my life,
00:31:29.51\00:31:31.83
even though the scripture
is good, but to be Christ like
00:31:31.86\00:31:35.18
is to actually be
engaged with my life,
00:31:35.21\00:31:37.76
to be connected to God
and others and so, you know,
00:31:37.79\00:31:40.89
He really is
giving us something,
00:31:40.92\00:31:42.26
the real for something that
was false and destroying us.
00:31:42.29\00:31:45.17
That's right, Cheri,
00:31:45.20\00:31:46.58
when I came to
Christ, I was so broken,
00:31:46.61\00:31:48.84
I didn't know how to
relate to anyone intimately.
00:31:48.87\00:31:51.61
Even in my relationships,
00:31:51.64\00:31:52.92
I couldn't even
connect with them,
00:31:52.95\00:31:54.26
even though I made
attempts to, I was still broken.
00:31:54.29\00:31:57.21
And what Jesus began
was this journey because
00:31:57.24\00:32:00.68
every time I fell, He was there,
00:32:00.71\00:32:03.54
He had to prove
Himself and win me back
00:32:03.57\00:32:06.37
to understand what intimacy was,
00:32:06.40\00:32:07.88
and so I didn't have
an example in my life
00:32:07.91\00:32:10.60
of what that was
like through my parents.
00:32:10.63\00:32:12.11
But Jesus was that example
00:32:12.14\00:32:13.69
and when I came back to
Him, He was always there.
00:32:13.72\00:32:16.49
He showed me
what real intimacy is
00:32:16.52\00:32:18.61
and what true love is.
00:32:18.64\00:32:19.84
And as I learned from Him,
00:32:19.87\00:32:21.68
then I was able to start
experiencing that in my life
00:32:21.71\00:32:24.37
but it wasn't easy,
that's right, that's right.
00:32:24.40\00:32:26.33
And giving it. How
ridiculous is that?
00:32:26.36\00:32:28.55
And how cool is that God
of the universe says to you,
00:32:28.58\00:32:31.55
Michael, man I don't care
00:32:31.58\00:32:33.51
if this takes us
the rest of your life,
00:32:33.54\00:32:35.29
I will prove to you
that I'm trustworthy.
00:32:35.32\00:32:37.94
And you're thinking
really, you know, you are God,
00:32:37.97\00:32:41.13
why do you have to prove to me,
00:32:41.16\00:32:42.91
I'm not sure but
if it takes that,
00:32:42.94\00:32:45.26
I'll do that for you.
00:32:45.29\00:32:46.41
But He knows it's important,
00:32:46.44\00:32:47.62
He wait, He knows
that it's vital to me.
00:32:47.65\00:32:50.01
Zephaniah 3:17,
that blew me away.
00:32:50.04\00:32:52.62
He will rejoice
over you with singing.
00:32:52.65\00:32:55.07
And I take that very personal.
00:32:55.10\00:32:56.89
That means Jesus is
going to sing to me personally
00:32:56.92\00:33:00.52
'cause I didn't think
that I was worth that.
00:33:00.55\00:33:02.43
I didn't think I was
worth that to God or to anyone,
00:33:02.46\00:33:04.82
but when I read that and as
He has shared Himself with me,
00:33:04.85\00:33:08.68
I get that more now.
00:33:08.71\00:33:10.00
That's
incredible, that's incredible.
00:33:10.03\00:33:12.22
Okay, Andre, I know
that you had a question.
00:33:12.25\00:33:15.08
Yes, Mike, I
appreciates your testimony,
00:33:15.11\00:33:17.20
I can relate so all of
what you're talking about,
00:33:17.23\00:33:21.75
I'm from Virginia and
in my struggles I've--
00:33:21.78\00:33:25.50
I keyed in on
several things actually
00:33:25.53\00:33:28.37
and it's a properly a two
part question I have for you.
00:33:28.40\00:33:31.02
Ah, I listen to what you
say concerning your father
00:33:31.05\00:33:34.98
and quite naturally the mother
and your sisters were there
00:33:35.01\00:33:38.29
so that's where you go.
00:33:38.32\00:33:40.73
And looking at that
and engaging it against
00:33:40.76\00:33:45.95
what I went through, a
mother who, in my scenario,
00:33:45.98\00:33:50.55
a mother who did not
acknowledge you whatsoever,
00:33:50.58\00:33:54.38
being raised by a grandmother,
being raised by a step father
00:33:54.41\00:33:59.80
and a father for a lot
of your years of your life
00:33:59.83\00:34:03.18
to half of your life, we
didn't even know who he was
00:34:03.21\00:34:06.06
I was forbidden to even
asking question about, okay.
00:34:06.09\00:34:09.23
So in my scenario
not only they have father
00:34:09.26\00:34:12.20
who didn't much
about you anyway,
00:34:12.23\00:34:14.10
mother who couldn't
give but only what she could
00:34:14.13\00:34:16.15
give herself because
of what was given to her,
00:34:16.18\00:34:18.30
don't know much you
can't do much, okay.
00:34:18.33\00:34:21.90
He left me in a
turmoil, and the turmoil left me
00:34:21.93\00:34:24.78
and was who am I?
00:34:24.81\00:34:26.96
Because prior to all
of what I'm telling you
00:34:26.99\00:34:29.60
it's because of time I'm
giving it to you like this.
00:34:29.63\00:34:32.34
But prior to all
that my life is--
00:34:32.37\00:34:34.82
was in a complete turmoil
00:34:34.85\00:34:37.80
so much so you mentioned choices
00:34:37.83\00:34:39.53
and choices is a
key word with everything
00:34:39.56\00:34:41.64
because you can't do anything
in life without choices.
00:34:41.67\00:34:44.00
I live my life like Solomon,
00:34:44.03\00:34:45.91
so if you know
anything about Solomon.
00:34:45.94\00:34:47.65
I hear it. Okay, that's--
00:34:47.68\00:34:48.71
That's in your whole life, okay.
00:34:48.74\00:34:50.57
And-- it left me in
two messed up areas,
00:34:50.60\00:34:54.10
one, I didn't know who
I was, so I spent my life
00:34:54.13\00:34:57.10
literally trying to
figure it out who I am, okay.
00:34:57.13\00:35:01.30
Am I worthwhile and other--
00:35:01.33\00:35:03.82
and other piece was
this-- this issue of love.
00:35:03.85\00:35:07.81
A key then when you say
it, I didn't want be a man,
00:35:07.84\00:35:10.28
I didn't want to be of women,
I just wanted to be accepted,
00:35:10.31\00:35:13.22
acknowledged and loved.
00:35:13.25\00:35:15.95
I went through life and
it left me with that issue
00:35:15.98\00:35:19.07
and other one was
the negative transcripts,
00:35:19.10\00:35:21.95
I didn't hear you mention
00:35:21.98\00:35:23.02
I think one
negative transcripts,
00:35:23.05\00:35:24.62
you know, that's real important
when you're going through--
00:35:24.65\00:35:26.77
going through stuff
like this is a challenge--
00:35:26.80\00:35:28.38
and even to
addictions within itself.
00:35:28.41\00:35:30.94
What part did negative
transcripts play in your life?
00:35:30.97\00:35:33.98
Who was it for while
were you trying to please,
00:35:34.01\00:35:36.65
for me I was
trying to please a father
00:35:36.68\00:35:38.26
who didn't want me anyway.
00:35:38.29\00:35:39.55
I wanted to be acknowledged
and the negative transcripts
00:35:39.58\00:35:42.41
says you that whenever you
came to door of-- of success,
00:35:42.44\00:35:45.65
hey, you can only
come and looking to wonder,
00:35:45.68\00:35:47.85
but dare not touch
the door to open it.
00:35:47.88\00:35:49.77
Did you experience that in?
00:35:49.80\00:35:51.41
If so how did you
overcome those things?
00:35:51.44\00:35:53.97
Let's think as
though the life scripting.
00:35:54.00\00:35:55.79
Yeah, yeah, my father
called me dummy, idiot, moron,
00:35:55.82\00:35:59.48
I got all that and
I heard that and I--
00:35:59.51\00:36:01.47
and I thought that I
can never be a success.
00:36:01.50\00:36:04.09
God blessed me with financial
success or business success,
00:36:04.12\00:36:07.10
but that wasn't
really my pursuit,
00:36:07.13\00:36:09.05
it wasn't until seven years
00:36:09.08\00:36:10.80
after being an
Adventist Christian
00:36:10.83\00:36:12.84
that I was
walking with Jesus Christ
00:36:12.87\00:36:14.29
and He had shown
me what that love was
00:36:14.32\00:36:16.01
and I accepted that.
00:36:16.04\00:36:17.61
And it wasn't until I
remember the verses says,
00:36:17.64\00:36:20.76
if you know-- if you
see me, you seen the father
00:36:20.79\00:36:23.37
and again I had
another meditation about that
00:36:23.40\00:36:26.94
and I'm gonna bath tub,
and I'm sick with my sin.
00:36:26.97\00:36:29.47
The fever so bad I can't
even hold myself up in the tub.
00:36:29.50\00:36:32.30
And Jesus is on
one side bathing me,
00:36:32.33\00:36:34.45
washing away my sin.
00:36:34.48\00:36:35.59
I'm so delirious,
00:36:35.62\00:36:36.67
I can't even hold
myself up in the water,
00:36:36.70\00:36:38.59
but I really didn't understand
the true nature of the father
00:36:38.62\00:36:41.56
until as I saw the image open up
00:36:41.59\00:36:44.00
and as I'm looking in, I realize
00:36:44.03\00:36:45.78
that there is somebody on
the other side of that tub
00:36:45.81\00:36:47.45
and I look in and I strain
00:36:47.48\00:36:49.59
and I see that
it's God my father
00:36:49.62\00:36:51.75
who I thought was just like my--
00:36:51.78\00:36:53.22
my biological
dad that dismissed me
00:36:53.25\00:36:55.59
that judged me, that
didn't want to be with me,
00:36:55.62\00:36:58.17
but here is my father,
00:36:58.20\00:36:59.43
God my father
holding me up in the water
00:36:59.46\00:37:01.59
while my savior is bathing me
00:37:01.62\00:37:03.07
and he affirmed to me right then
00:37:03.10\00:37:05.04
that I indeed
was never an orphan
00:37:05.07\00:37:06.91
and that He was with
me through all of that
00:37:06.94\00:37:09.81
and He was able to break
through the negative tapes
00:37:09.84\00:37:12.43
of hearing dummy,
idiot, moron and all of that.
00:37:12.46\00:37:15.73
And it's his responsibility
00:37:15.76\00:37:17.75
to prove
Himself and He wants to.
00:37:17.78\00:37:19.50
You know, what I-- what I love
00:37:19.53\00:37:21.00
what you said Andre too is that
00:37:21.03\00:37:23.59
where were you went
out and totally went,
00:37:23.62\00:37:26.90
you know, off the grid
as far as your sexuality
00:37:26.93\00:37:29.22
and men and all
that kind of stuff
00:37:29.25\00:37:31.13
and pouring and
even-- even having the lover
00:37:31.16\00:37:33.56
and then going out to
bars and all kind of stuff,
00:37:33.59\00:37:36.04
whether-- whether
Andrew I been said
00:37:36.07\00:37:37.93
it's sounds like
where you said is that
00:37:37.96\00:37:39.38
you know, I was
someone like Solomon
00:37:39.41\00:37:40.63
and that I held
nothing back from me,
00:37:40.66\00:37:42.99
but got to lot of
women, so it's been able--
00:37:43.02\00:37:45.59
you know, we all
step out and we act out,
00:37:45.62\00:37:48.12
we're off the chats
as far our acting out.
00:37:48.15\00:37:51.55
Regardless so
I've-- I did the first drug
00:37:51.58\00:37:54.07
and I was-- I was gone
00:37:54.10\00:37:55.52
and try to get as
many drugs as I could.
00:37:55.55\00:37:57.90
So I think that until we
get that core thing about,
00:37:57.93\00:38:01.15
I just want to be loved
and I just want to be fit in
00:38:01.18\00:38:03.82
and I just want to
know that I'm saved
00:38:03.85\00:38:06.23
that we're gonna
act out in some way.
00:38:06.26\00:38:08.12
And what's I really hate it,
00:38:08.15\00:38:10.47
I want to come back
and ask you about this,
00:38:10.50\00:38:13.21
is I really hate the fact
that then we step into a world
00:38:13.24\00:38:16.35
where we're trying to
figure out how safe we are,
00:38:16.38\00:38:18.68
and the people around us
00:38:18.71\00:38:20.14
are freaked out
about our behavior,
00:38:20.17\00:38:22.45
so when we come
in and I, you know,
00:38:22.48\00:38:24.77
it's like I came in
as a heroine addict,
00:38:24.80\00:38:28.35
a drug addict,
and that kind of stuff
00:38:28.38\00:38:29.75
and that freak
people out a little bit,
00:38:29.78\00:38:31.55
I'm trying to find a
family and safety in there.
00:38:31.58\00:38:34.35
You come in as a gay
male, was that difficult
00:38:34.38\00:38:38.35
and at times is that difficult
and I don't want to say that
00:38:38.38\00:38:40.96
but I want to ask you that,
00:38:40.99\00:38:42.02
so will be right back with our--
00:38:42.05\00:38:43.68
I want you to stay with us.
00:38:43.71\00:38:46.28