The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to
"Celebrating Life in Recovery."
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I'm Cheri your host.
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We're gonna talk to
two guys on this program
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that has spent a good
portion of their life in prison
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and now they are going back in
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and grab and hold of
anybody who will listen.
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It's gonna be cool.
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Welcome back.
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Today we're gonna be talking
about some pretty heavy stuff.
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We're gonna over
some testimonies.
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We're gonna listen to how God
stand somebody up in ministry.
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I am really
excited that who is here
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we're gonna interview Buddy,
we're gonna interview you.
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And thank you for
being on the program,
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and also Bryan
who works with you.
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But before we get
there, I want to say something
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that's I think really
important in our journey.
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Because when I first got
into recovery I was serious,
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I looked at all the
issues and the fact that I had,
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you know, junk, you know,
I had look at and deal with
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and drug addictions and I
had to learn how to be social
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and be normal and
I am thinking normal,
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I didn't even
know what that was.
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But, you know, after little
while God looked at me and said
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I really think
through the Holy Spirit.
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He said, you know what?
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Are you plan at all,
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you know, are you laughing
at all, are you hanging out.
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And He really took the recovery
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and try to put it
in perspective for me.
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That we're gonna look at issues
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through your journey with God.
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You're gonna look at things
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and you are gonna have to learn
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different
behaviors think different.
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God renews our mind,
changes all that kind of stuff.
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But He's really gonna
show you how to celebrate too.
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And at the end of the
program I want to show you
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something that we put
together for the churches.
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Its called "Celebrating Life
in Recovery" "Steps to Christ."
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How do you go
through all of this junk,
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but remember to
have fun, meet people,
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form friendships
to all the things
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that God want you to do.
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I took piano
lessons, art lessons.
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I ended up on taking
biking and cycling and,
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you know, doing
stuff with my family.
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And so part of
recovery is to learn
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how to do all
that kind of stuff too,
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it's not just looking at
anger or fear or addition.
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And so as you are doing this,
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put in a lot of
time to have fun.
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And I love--I read in a book
one time as I talked about it.
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If you're
driving down the street
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and you're looking through
your front window of the car,
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you have a little
rearview mirror, it's tiny,
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but you really do have to look
at what's behind you sometimes.
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But if you just
focused on that rearview mirror
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you're gonna run into something,
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you know, what I mean.
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And this is same in recovery.
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Now that you are
getting your life back
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and you're gonna have
a great time doing that.
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Every once in a while
you're gonna look at your stuff
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but don't get stuck there.
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Because, you know,
God says look at Me.
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I am gonna
really-- I am your advocate,
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I am gonna teach you some stuff.
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I am gonna teach you to laugh.
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I am gonna teach
you to be normal.
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I am gonna teach you
that there is a God in heaven
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that cares about you
and He's gonna restore,
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redeem, and stand you up
in ways that are unbelievable.
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And so now, Buddy,
that brings me to you
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because I have
seen just since we met,
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just talking on the
phone and meeting today
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as that I have seen
God do that in your life.
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And so we're gonna
find out who you are and,
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you know, if you need to
even start from the beginning
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and then how God stood you up.
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Well, well, I
first of all want to say
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I also thank you
for allow me to be here
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and it's just a blessing to
be able to come and to share.
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And I can definitely
relate to a lot of people
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that have lot of
issues in their life.
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I started off at a
young age and I was--
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had a very loving
mother and my father
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though he was a good
guy but he was never around.
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He was always locked up in
prison in and out and then--
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From the time you
were really little?
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Yeah, from the time
I was really little.
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So I don't really have a
lot of memories of my father.
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He was in and out
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and then I remember
a couple of times but,
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you know, like
one time I remember,
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he had escaped I
didn't know that.
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Then he came around a couple
times but he couldn't hang out
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because, you know, the
police were looking for him.
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Then another time, you know,
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he was finally
arrested and then back in.
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And then another time I
remember he was on the run
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and I'd never see him that time.
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Well, yeah one
time when he first left
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he was on the run
for like 13.5 years,
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you know, he was
wanted for escape and so I--
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And if it sounds like
it's really interesting
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as what you said is even though
he wanted to be in your life
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he couldn't, because he
knew that he couldn't show up
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somewhere that was so obvious--
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Right, and he made--right
and he made some mistakes,
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you know, so he couldn't
come around his own family
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he wanted to, but he couldn't.
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Did you visit him in jail?
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One time when I was kid,
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I remember once
like most places,
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no--we, I didn't
get to go see him.
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But like I said,
I was really little
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and he took off and escaped
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and I was just
really like two-years-old,
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when I first knew.
Yeah, really young.
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Yeah, two and three
and four in that age
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and then he escape for,
he was going for 13.5 year,
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so I've never got to,
you know, see him then
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but I think one time
when he first took off,
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a couple times he was
in and out you know hiding.
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But my mother she
raised three of us,
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me and my brother and sister
and she did best she could.
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She got saved, found the Lord
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when I was
about eight-years-old.
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So before then,
you know, the life
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that I remember
it wasn't very good,
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you know, I was definitely just
heard trying to raise us and,
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you know, he was in and out
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and then she raised us
by herself, she worked hard.
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God comes in the picture
and the home is actually safer.
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Yes. More stable.
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Yes, and she's trying
to do her best and work
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and support three kids
and is really hard over,
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but she did very
well and she got saved
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like when I was about eight.
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So then we
started going to church.
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You know, and
that's at the age of 11
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probably right around
there I was in fifth grade,
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the summer the fifth grade.
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First time I really remember
actually using myself I started,
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you know, I
smoked cigarettes already
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but then I
started smoking marijuana
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and then it went
on to other things
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and before you knew that I was--
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A lot of people will
say fifth grade, no way.
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But, you know, it's amazing
to me how many really young kids
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start to use
especially like smoking
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just experimenting with stuff.
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Yes. And I started earlier
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and I know many people
start way before that age,
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you know, but I started then
and then before you know it,
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you know its causing problems
because my mother is real strict
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and I would be
sneaking out of the house
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me and my little brother,
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you know, I was a
bad influence on him
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'cause he's three and
half years younger than me
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and he's trying to
follow me you know.
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And so he started
earlier than me, you know.
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So I am doing things I shouldn't
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and then for you know, what,
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you know, I am
getting in trouble.
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I went to jail I was like 15.
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I went 15 or 16 I went to
the jail for the first time
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but I was so out of it.
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They thought that I
had overdosed on something
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because I was,
you know, coming to.
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And so they ended up
taking me to the hospital
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and they were
gonna pump my stomach
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but I guess they found
out that I was just drunk.
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I drink so much,
you know, when I was
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because I would always
have to hurry and get home.
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Everybody else
could hang out but not me.
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My mom is strict, so I
had to get home so I thought
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man, if I hurry and
drink all this real quick
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then I'll go home but
see if you drink it too quick
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then you can't function at
all and that's what I try to do.
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When you get toxic
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I mean, you really
actually poison ourself
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and we don't even know it.
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Yes, I should have
been dead many times
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just from the alcohol poisoning
because I did it all the time.
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So at early age I
became drinker, you know.
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I want to hang
out with the crowd
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and the people that I thought
was cool I did what they did.
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And so I started at early age
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and I was hanging
out with older people
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and that became a problem
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because where I was from
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Wabash, Indiana
is where I'm from
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and they started early.
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There are lot of
kids and I was just
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hanging out with the wrong crowd
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and I can't blame them but
I chose to do what they did.
00:08:54.85\00:08:59.02
And then at early age I
started getting in trouble
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and I got in trouble
another time for drinking
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and then it went on,
in and out for drinking.
00:09:06.43\00:09:07.80
So in and out of jail and
juvenile, all that kind stuff?
00:09:07.83\00:09:10.84
Yeah juvenile, I
ended up going to boy school
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and then it was just
internally for drinking,
00:09:13.23\00:09:15.97
you know, being a problem
child I was what I became.
00:09:16.00\00:09:20.38
And so my mother she
couldn't really do much with me.
00:09:20.41\00:09:25.81
She got married,
you know, to my step dad
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and he was real strict and so
it was real strict in our home
00:09:29.13\00:09:32.14
and I was real rebellious.
00:09:32.17\00:09:34.06
You know, I wanted
to do things my way
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and I choose to do with
my way so I got it my way.
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I ended up going to prison.
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Well, first of all
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alcohol and drugs centers.
00:09:44.44\00:09:46.01
Buddy, I've to say
that it's interesting
00:09:46.04\00:09:48.11
what you just said is like,
00:09:48.14\00:09:49.51
you know, I wanted to do
it my way and I got it my way.
00:09:49.54\00:09:52.02
And so all of the consequences
00:09:52.05\00:09:53.73
for everything
that you were doing
00:09:53.76\00:09:55.13
all the sudden its
right there in your hands.
00:09:55.16\00:09:57.23
Okay now I'm in jail
00:09:57.26\00:09:58.73
and I am having to deal
with all of this kind of stuff.
00:09:58.76\00:10:01.91
Right, so I ended up saying
and thinking that I thought,
00:10:01.94\00:10:06.04
man, I don't want to go by
these rules, I want to have fun.
00:10:06.07\00:10:08.21
Everybody else gets to go out
and do all these, why can't I?
00:10:08.24\00:10:11.04
But my mom is a loving mother
and tried to raise me right.
00:10:11.07\00:10:13.73
And she tried to
raise me by the word.
00:10:13.76\00:10:15.87
And I just chose to rebel
00:10:15.90\00:10:17.64
because I wanted to
be like everybody else.
00:10:17.67\00:10:19.78
So I was in and out
00:10:19.81\00:10:21.83
and then I went to
couple treatment centers
00:10:21.86\00:10:24.06
to try to get away from prison.
00:10:24.09\00:10:25.56
I wasn't there to be serious
00:10:25.59\00:10:27.64
and I did the
steps I tried the steps,
00:10:27.67\00:10:30.24
you know, but I
wasn't opened up,
00:10:30.27\00:10:32.50
I didn't let it in my
heart enough, you know.
00:10:32.53\00:10:34.77
I wasn't really ready.
00:10:34.80\00:10:36.17
You were just
playing the system.
00:10:36.20\00:10:37.78
I was trying to play the system
00:10:37.81\00:10:39.39
because I didn't
want to go to prison,
00:10:39.42\00:10:40.79
you know, and I
was getting high there.
00:10:40.82\00:10:42.54
I was going on passes and came
back and selling weed there,
00:10:42.57\00:10:45.79
you know, I was not serious.
00:10:45.82\00:10:47.44
And as soon as I was out,
00:10:47.47\00:10:49.02
you know, I mean
the day I got out,
00:10:49.05\00:10:50.89
you know, I am drinking,
you know, I was not serious.
00:10:50.92\00:10:53.14
I mean I was doing
things in there even.
00:10:53.17\00:10:55.29
So anyway I ended
up going on to prison,
00:10:55.32\00:10:59.08
I ended, soon as I got
out of the drug centers
00:10:59.11\00:11:01.01
I would I ended up
in prison then back out
00:11:01.04\00:11:04.09
as soon as I get
out, I was back there.
00:11:04.12\00:11:05.61
What were the charges
when you were going in and out,
00:11:05.64\00:11:07.87
because it sounds
like you weren't robbing
00:11:07.90\00:11:09.96
or stealing or
doing all that kind stuff.
00:11:09.99\00:11:12.48
Yeah, well first of
all it's just alcohol,
00:11:12.51\00:11:15.18
you know, in the jail I
was always just for alcohol.
00:11:15.21\00:11:17.94
But yeah, it came to where I
started stealing for my habit.
00:11:17.97\00:11:21.23
I started just burglary,
00:11:21.26\00:11:23.25
you know, I wasn't robbing
with the gun or nothing but,
00:11:23.28\00:11:26.41
you know, to me I say,
this is all petty things
00:11:26.44\00:11:28.82
but you know it is serious.
00:11:28.85\00:11:30.22
I was stealing
things and burglary,
00:11:30.25\00:11:32.28
so I, you know, I
would go to prison
00:11:32.31\00:11:34.72
I was in there
like two, three times
00:11:34.75\00:11:36.75
just for like theft,
burglary, a bunch of burglaries.
00:11:36.78\00:11:40.13
And but while I was in prison,
00:11:40.16\00:11:42.08
while I was in jail my mindset
was still to do the same things.
00:11:42.11\00:11:46.14
I still want to
get high, you know,
00:11:46.17\00:11:48.21
and that's all my mindset
was, was just to get high.
00:11:48.24\00:11:52.11
You know, it would-- I
had a lot issues in my life
00:11:52.14\00:11:55.20
and if I got high it just
kind of escaped everything else.
00:11:55.23\00:11:58.59
I didn't have to
think about everything else.
00:11:58.62\00:12:00.01
Everything was okay.
00:12:00.04\00:12:01.41
Yeah, I didn't
have to be responsible.
00:12:01.44\00:12:02.87
I just, you know,
I would just get high
00:12:02.90\00:12:05.40
and then I would--
00:12:05.43\00:12:07.04
when I come down I
get high again if I could.
00:12:07.07\00:12:09.42
So I was constantly even in jail
00:12:09.45\00:12:12.06
trying to think
of a way to get high.
00:12:12.09\00:12:13.85
How do I get high? How
can we get this in here?
00:12:13.88\00:12:17.05
You know, so we
would always scam and try
00:12:17.08\00:12:19.89
and what we usually
accomplish a few things and,
00:12:19.92\00:12:22.88
you know, we get in there
and tried to escape, you know.
00:12:22.91\00:12:27.36
What's really interesting
00:12:27.39\00:12:28.76
as for some purchase
is that even in prison
00:12:28.79\00:12:31.26
you've got somebody trying
to make wine out of the fruit
00:12:31.29\00:12:33.66
and I mean that
you were literally--
00:12:33.69\00:12:37.95
you can get high
wherever you want it, get high.
00:12:37.98\00:12:40.06
I mean, it doesn't
matter that you're behind bars,
00:12:40.09\00:12:41.90
doesn't matter
about all that kind stuff.
00:12:41.93\00:12:43.99
And you know I want to ask you
because it's interesting to me
00:12:44.02\00:12:48.07
that coming down
was not okay with you.
00:12:48.10\00:12:52.48
Being a normal, being in
your right mind was not okay,
00:12:52.51\00:12:56.33
you just you know, I
don't want to be clear headed.
00:12:56.36\00:13:01.45
I don't want to be normal,
00:13:01.48\00:13:02.85
I feel better when I've
got drugs or alcohol in me.
00:13:02.88\00:13:06.83
I socialize
better, I have more fun
00:13:06.86\00:13:10.07
and that's what we
really tell ourselves
00:13:10.10\00:13:11.59
especially I
think coming from a home
00:13:11.62\00:13:13.69
where you know,
everything is crazy
00:13:13.72\00:13:15.46
and dad's gonna all
that kind stuff is that,
00:13:15.49\00:13:18.63
you know, we
want to feel better.
00:13:18.66\00:13:20.89
Yes, and that is so true.
00:13:20.92\00:13:22.92
But mainly for me it's just
00:13:22.95\00:13:24.97
that's what I
would do just to escape
00:13:25.00\00:13:27.26
I didn't have to
think about my problems.
00:13:27.29\00:13:29.06
I didn't have to
think about not be in home.
00:13:29.09\00:13:31.63
I didn't have to
think about all that.
00:13:31.66\00:13:33.73
You know, so I was,
00:13:33.76\00:13:35.30
you know, in school I
just started at young age
00:13:35.33\00:13:37.75
and even at school I was doing,
00:13:37.78\00:13:39.75
you know, I went
to school to get high
00:13:39.78\00:13:41.30
because my mom was so strict,
00:13:41.33\00:13:42.70
I didn't want to stay
home I want to go to school.
00:13:42.73\00:13:44.97
So I go to school because
there was party to me you know.
00:13:45.00\00:13:48.28
Anyway when I
ended up going to prison
00:13:48.31\00:13:50.37
you know I was for
stealing and burglary
00:13:50.40\00:13:53.05
and I ended up doing like
few months here few months there
00:13:53.08\00:13:56.62
then it went to--I did almost
three years straight and--
00:13:56.65\00:14:01.89
But every time I got out,
you know, I would go right back
00:14:01.92\00:14:05.32
because I was doing
the same old things.
00:14:05.35\00:14:06.77
I was never out very long.
00:14:06.80\00:14:09.75
I ended up getting
like us 16 year sentence
00:14:09.78\00:14:13.81
two, eight years
sentences in Wabash run in while
00:14:13.84\00:14:17.64
constantly we have to do
one sentence then the next.
00:14:17.67\00:14:20.80
And I mean they're
doing the same thing
00:14:20.83\00:14:23.32
because I learned at early age
with the people I hung out with.
00:14:23.35\00:14:26.52
I would go to
prison I would know--
00:14:26.55\00:14:28.15
I would hook up with
the people that I knew
00:14:28.18\00:14:30.51
and they were doing
those type of things.
00:14:30.54\00:14:31.91
So that's what I will
do, that's what I need to do.
00:14:31.94\00:14:34.36
I learned early how
to hustle in there and,
00:14:34.39\00:14:36.96
you know, how to get by
and, you know, so I did that,
00:14:36.99\00:14:39.89
you know, I would
try to manage things
00:14:39.92\00:14:41.95
to where, how
can we get this in?
00:14:41.98\00:14:43.35
How can I get high?
00:14:43.38\00:14:44.75
How can I get money?
00:14:44.78\00:14:46.15
And that's the way I lived in.
00:14:46.18\00:14:49.40
For people that
are not educated,
00:14:49.43\00:14:52.00
you know, it's
oblivious that there are drugs
00:14:52.03\00:14:54.32
and that kind of
alcohol in the prison system.
00:14:54.35\00:14:57.06
How normally,
how common is that?
00:14:57.09\00:15:00.02
This very common especially
years back well I was there,
00:15:01.13\00:15:04.92
I've been out six years now,
00:15:04.95\00:15:06.77
but while I was in
there, it's very common.
00:15:06.80\00:15:09.09
That's what people did
then you know, it may be,
00:15:09.12\00:15:11.67
they might have tighter
hold on it now in most places.
00:15:11.70\00:15:15.25
But back then it
was real common and,
00:15:15.28\00:15:18.09
you know, if you it's--
00:15:18.12\00:15:19.49
there is many different
ways to get drugs in there
00:15:19.52\00:15:22.19
and that's just what we did.
00:15:22.22\00:15:23.59
We hustle whatever you can.
00:15:23.62\00:15:25.12
And I was addicted
to that lifestyle even
00:15:25.15\00:15:29.54
and I just-- that's what I did.
00:15:29.57\00:15:30.94
Talk about that a bit,
00:15:30.97\00:15:32.34
because it's not that's
not a chemical addiction,
00:15:32.37\00:15:34.03
but the addiction to
the lifestyle is huge.
00:15:34.06\00:15:36.23
Most of us don't see
that into way into recovery.
00:15:36.26\00:15:39.48
Right I-- 'Cause
I like to hustle.
00:15:39.51\00:15:43.05
Yeah, I love that
lifestyle, I loved to hustle.
00:15:43.08\00:15:46.10
I loved to be around
that type of environment
00:15:46.13\00:15:48.09
that type of people
that were doing those things.
00:15:48.12\00:15:50.23
And especially
if you're hustling
00:15:50.26\00:15:52.07
and you have like
if you got the stuff,
00:15:52.10\00:15:55.99
you know, you got power too.
00:15:56.02\00:15:57.49
You know and there's
something with that power,
00:15:57.52\00:15:59.21
there's something
that you just think,
00:15:59.24\00:16:01.20
man, I got, you know, I can
do about anything I want in here
00:16:01.23\00:16:04.45
you know, because
I know lot of people
00:16:04.48\00:16:06.65
wouldn't understand this
but prison used to be fun.
00:16:06.68\00:16:09.57
You know, we would
say, man, it isn't so bad
00:16:09.60\00:16:11.49
so the consequences if prison
is so fun when we get out,
00:16:11.52\00:16:15.35
well, it wouldn't bother us to
go do these things we use to do
00:16:15.38\00:16:17.97
because the
consequences isn't that bad.
00:16:18.00\00:16:19.98
You go to prison, you go,
00:16:20.01\00:16:21.38
you're going there and
you stay high everyday.
00:16:21.41\00:16:23.50
I mean you get drunk a lot,
00:16:23.53\00:16:25.33
you know, and you do
these things that you can do.
00:16:25.36\00:16:28.03
You can do a lot in
there that you did out there.
00:16:28.06\00:16:31.24
Even in that lifestyle
is that when somebody says,
00:16:31.27\00:16:34.34
oh, you went to
prison wow it's like a--
00:16:34.37\00:16:37.66
it's almost like batch
of honor in some places.
00:16:37.69\00:16:40.05
Yes, a lot
places. And so it's like--
00:16:40.08\00:16:43.07
it's a whole different mindset,
00:16:43.10\00:16:45.48
it's a whole
different way of looking at it.
00:16:45.51\00:16:47.53
You get kind of
little bit more respect,
00:16:47.56\00:16:51.08
you know, because I've been in,
I've been in 10 times, 5 times
00:16:51.11\00:16:55.57
whatever but it's something that
you actually get respect for.
00:16:55.60\00:17:00.47
Yes, and a lot people
thing it's cool, you know.
00:17:00.50\00:17:03.57
And they think, man, you've
been in prison and they go
00:17:03.60\00:17:06.32
and they think it's cool
because they've been there.
00:17:06.35\00:17:08.07
So they get out and
the people there around,
00:17:08.10\00:17:10.75
they just think its cool and
it's definitely not cool at all.
00:17:10.78\00:17:14.46
And but I ended up is
all these little things
00:17:14.49\00:17:19.33
that I say or little things
that I did, they all added up
00:17:19.36\00:17:23.15
because, yeah I got felony
here and I got a felony there
00:17:23.18\00:17:27.39
and then you get arrested again
00:17:27.42\00:17:28.79
and you're just
trying to get the best
00:17:28.82\00:17:30.19
till you can with the system
00:17:30.22\00:17:32.47
and you got to fair
of those felonies add up
00:17:32.50\00:17:34.85
because if you get three
00:17:34.88\00:17:36.89
which I had few then
you can't get such good deal
00:17:36.92\00:17:40.32
because
habitual comes into play.
00:17:40.35\00:17:42.82
So I'm in and out and I go
in like three or four times
00:17:42.85\00:17:46.34
and then I get in trouble
00:17:46.37\00:17:47.74
while I'm in there for
attempt to escape from the jail
00:17:47.77\00:17:51.08
and I ended up getting a
four year sentence for that
00:17:51.11\00:17:53.63
and conspiracy to escape.
00:17:53.66\00:17:56.92
And so I'm always seems
like I'm always into something
00:17:56.95\00:18:00.09
and then the next
day, you know, I'm out,
00:18:00.12\00:18:02.24
I'm only out few days every time
00:18:02.27\00:18:04.39
but the last time I got out
I was out five and half months
00:18:04.42\00:18:08.06
and that's the most I've been
out since I was 17-years-old.
00:18:08.09\00:18:12.09
I've been out six
months at that time.
00:18:12.12\00:18:14.34
So I'm out and I'm
doing the same old thing.
00:18:14.37\00:18:16.95
You know, I mean I
was in there doing it.
00:18:16.98\00:18:18.41
How you gonna quit out there
00:18:18.44\00:18:19.88
if you don't quit
while you're in there.
00:18:19.91\00:18:21.71
So I get out, I'm
out just a few days
00:18:21.74\00:18:24.34
like I said five and half months
00:18:24.37\00:18:26.06
I ended up getting
in some more trouble
00:18:26.09\00:18:28.63
for a robbery that happened
and some thefts, some things.
00:18:28.66\00:18:32.00
Anyway so I go
back into the jail.
00:18:32.03\00:18:35.06
I'm still doing the
same, having the same mindset,
00:18:35.09\00:18:38.24
I ended up at that time that's
when I got the 16 years plus,
00:18:38.27\00:18:44.50
I have parole violations.
00:18:44.53\00:18:45.90
So I go in everything all
my buddies were already there.
00:18:45.93\00:18:49.39
I've already been to
all these prisons, you know,
00:18:49.42\00:18:51.31
because I got shuffled
from this prison to that one
00:18:51.34\00:18:53.74
to that one that one that one,
00:18:53.77\00:18:55.39
you know, just
a round of circle.
00:18:55.42\00:18:56.85
None of that is traumatic
to you, none of it is big deal.
00:18:56.88\00:18:59.36
I've down this
before I am just settling,
00:18:59.39\00:19:01.11
then I'm gonna do my time again.
00:19:01.14\00:19:02.55
I'm just hustling and getting by
00:19:02.58\00:19:04.27
and this is how I'm doing,
I'm not thinking about future,
00:19:04.30\00:19:06.76
I'm not thinking nothing but
just day-by-day getting high.
00:19:06.79\00:19:09.78
That was my mindset.
00:19:09.81\00:19:11.22
So I ended up going back
and everything is already there,
00:19:11.25\00:19:13.52
all my buddies already there,
so it's already set up for me,
00:19:13.55\00:19:16.06
so soon as I go in it's on.
00:19:16.09\00:19:18.45
You know, hustling and
just constantly taking.
00:19:18.48\00:19:22.49
This my life, this what I do
00:19:22.52\00:19:25.08
and then I ended up
while I am in there,
00:19:25.11\00:19:27.23
you know, I am
hustling from here to there
00:19:27.26\00:19:29.13
and they just keep
moving me to different places
00:19:29.16\00:19:30.88
because I'm under investigation
00:19:30.91\00:19:32.61
and they hear
this and hear that,
00:19:32.64\00:19:34.24
but I was never they
could never prove it,
00:19:34.27\00:19:37.52
you know, so they
would just move me around.
00:19:37.55\00:19:39.73
And so this last
time while I was in there,
00:19:39.76\00:19:42.88
I ended up getting in trouble.
00:19:42.91\00:19:45.40
I was at Pendleton
Reformatory at the time
00:19:45.43\00:19:48.01
because I'd already got
shift from another place
00:19:48.04\00:19:49.87
under investigation for drugs.
00:19:49.90\00:19:51.90
So only way while I am there
00:19:51.93\00:19:53.52
long story short I ended
up getting arrested again.
00:19:53.55\00:19:57.64
Good friend of mine was arrested
00:19:57.67\00:19:59.16
for brining in LSD in
the visitor room to me.
00:19:59.19\00:20:02.26
And then in the meantime
00:20:02.29\00:20:04.68
I've been under
investigation, I didn't know it.
00:20:04.71\00:20:07.29
And a friend of
mine that was in there
00:20:07.32\00:20:09.77
sent somebody to a house
I had somebody on the street
00:20:09.80\00:20:13.37
holding some marijuana for me
00:20:13.40\00:20:16.73
and keeping some
money for me and--
00:20:16.76\00:20:19.38
so he sent his brother
over there with the wire on
00:20:19.41\00:20:22.31
and end up setting me up
00:20:22.34\00:20:23.71
and I was
arrested from the prison
00:20:23.74\00:20:25.20
selling marijuana on
the street from inside.
00:20:25.23\00:20:28.88
So I ended up
getting arrested for all that
00:20:28.91\00:20:30.88
and they filled a breach on me
00:20:30.91\00:20:32.38
and since I would
not corporate with them
00:20:32.41\00:20:34.95
because you
know I was hardheaded
00:20:34.98\00:20:36.40
and that's just the way
00:20:36.43\00:20:38.19
I lived my life,
you know, was it.
00:20:38.22\00:20:40.87
I felt like if you do
the time, you know, you pay,
00:20:40.90\00:20:45.01
you know, if you do
the time you do the crime,
00:20:45.04\00:20:47.56
you know, I mean
if you do the crime,
00:20:47.59\00:20:49.28
you do the time, excuse me.
00:20:49.31\00:20:50.68
So you're just saying to them,
00:20:50.71\00:20:52.10
you know, we
don't have to play here
00:20:52.13\00:20:53.84
just tell me how
much time I have.
00:20:53.87\00:20:55.89
Right, just tell
me what I got to do,
00:20:55.92\00:20:57.92
so I am not getting
nobody else involved.
00:20:57.95\00:20:59.57
I am not ruining their life and
that's pretty much what I did.
00:20:59.60\00:21:03.73
How much time did
they give you for that?
00:21:03.76\00:21:05.33
I ended up getting
another 20 year sentence
00:21:05.36\00:21:08.48
added on to the other
16 that I already had.
00:21:08.51\00:21:12.17
And so during this time I
was just a miserable mess,
00:21:12.20\00:21:18.07
you know, I fought
my case for three years.
00:21:18.10\00:21:21.23
I gave the lawyer
right around $30,000
00:21:21.26\00:21:24.18
and he was supposed
to work this all out
00:21:24.21\00:21:26.26
and I thought man I
got it under control,
00:21:26.29\00:21:28.26
I'm gonna be out here soon
00:21:28.29\00:21:29.66
'cause I was
about ready to go home
00:21:29.69\00:21:31.63
and I was rearrested,
you know, got charges inside,
00:21:31.66\00:21:35.17
you know, for
trafficking, and you know LSD
00:21:35.20\00:21:38.73
and that's a serious offence
00:21:38.76\00:21:40.13
and habitual and the
marijuana deals, you know.
00:21:40.16\00:21:42.97
So anyway I'm ready to go
home, my family is all excited.
00:21:43.00\00:21:46.36
I don't make it home
00:21:46.39\00:21:47.76
I ended up getting more
time when I started with.
00:21:47.79\00:21:49.97
So anyway-- Twenty years?
00:21:50.00\00:21:52.05
Yes I got another
20 years sentence.
00:21:52.08\00:21:53.45
That's a long time.
00:21:53.48\00:21:55.00
Yes, but the thing is
all that just sound so bad
00:21:55.03\00:21:57.94
and so terrible
and you know it is.
00:21:57.97\00:22:00.36
You know because I let
myself get into that mindset
00:22:00.39\00:22:04.66
that this is what
I'm gonna do get high
00:22:04.69\00:22:06.75
and I didn't
focused on nothing else.
00:22:06.78\00:22:08.66
But the thing about it is man
the Lord turned that all around
00:22:08.69\00:22:12.52
because I wasn't
trying to serve the Lord.
00:22:12.55\00:22:14.13
I wasn't, you know, I
wasn't about the Lord.
00:22:14.16\00:22:16.13
That was the last
thing on your mind?
00:22:16.16\00:22:17.53
Yeah, I didn't think
about, I'll get with him later.
00:22:17.56\00:22:19.65
I'm getting high right
now. Man, I'm having fun.
00:22:19.68\00:22:21.90
I only live once so
let's do this right.
00:22:21.93\00:22:23.78
This is me, you know,
and that was my mindset
00:22:23.81\00:22:28.10
and I got in trouble
00:22:28.13\00:22:29.50
and you know I was moved from
this lock up to that lock up
00:22:29.53\00:22:32.89
and I just spend a lot of
time not only the 20 years I got
00:22:32.92\00:22:36.62
but also had to
loose all my privileges.
00:22:36.65\00:22:39.14
You know, I had to visit
00:22:39.17\00:22:40.54
through a little glass on a
phone chain down like a dog,
00:22:40.57\00:22:43.54
you know, looking through
my people if I got to visit
00:22:43.57\00:22:45.72
which my people
blessed me with visits.
00:22:45.75\00:22:48.42
And everything was
taking away from me you know,
00:22:48.45\00:22:51.38
and I lost time
inside the prison also
00:22:51.41\00:22:53.74
because they got a time class.
00:22:53.77\00:22:55.83
Anyway I lost time there
and then I had to go lock up.
00:22:55.86\00:22:58.18
I got a couple of
years in lock up you know--
00:22:58.21\00:23:02.33
I love Buddy, because I know
that you're still in your mind
00:23:02.36\00:23:05.33
and initially trying to
hustle it trying to play it.
00:23:05.36\00:23:07.69
Okay, what I do now,
I'm like locked down,
00:23:07.72\00:23:09.82
I'm on the phone, I got glass,
00:23:09.85\00:23:11.45
but you're still in
your mind trying to go to
00:23:11.48\00:23:14.22
how am I gonna
deal with all this.
00:23:14.25\00:23:16.08
Right and that was
my mind is thinking,
00:23:16.11\00:23:19.16
you know, I am gonna
make it out of sudden
00:23:19.19\00:23:21.59
it's gonna work out
you know I had it all plan.
00:23:21.62\00:23:23.96
Give him all this
money man my lawyer is good,
00:23:23.99\00:23:26.29
handle this isn't a big deal.
00:23:26.32\00:23:27.89
I am cool, I'll
keep my mouth shut, man.
00:23:27.92\00:23:30.16
Just whatever I
got to do, let's do it.
00:23:30.19\00:23:32.16
And there it didn't
worked out like I planned.
00:23:32.19\00:23:33.78
My lawyer kind
of worked against me
00:23:33.81\00:23:36.21
and I was supposed to not get
much time with all that money
00:23:36.24\00:23:39.44
you know public defender could
have got me better than that.
00:23:39.47\00:23:42.36
So he worked against me
00:23:42.39\00:23:43.76
and I ended up
getting 20 year sentence
00:23:43.79\00:23:45.31
and then they took
everything from me.
00:23:45.34\00:23:47.47
And I decided, you
know, the same work
00:23:47.50\00:23:51.08
and this lifestyle
I'm living is not fun,
00:23:51.11\00:23:53.23
it's not what I
thought is gonna be.
00:23:53.26\00:23:54.63
I want to change my way,
00:23:54.66\00:23:56.03
but man, this is kind of
tough here and I'm miserable.
00:23:56.06\00:23:58.76
And the Lord had
been dwelling with me
00:23:58.79\00:24:00.25
because I was raised in church.
00:24:00.28\00:24:01.65
Remember from 8-years-old now,
00:24:01.68\00:24:03.52
you know, I was raised
in church so I rebelled in,
00:24:03.55\00:24:05.88
you know, going on my way.
00:24:05.91\00:24:07.28
Because I was just
thinking as you're talking
00:24:07.31\00:24:08.68
as what is God gonna
do to get through to you?
00:24:08.71\00:24:11.29
Right and my
mother is there praying
00:24:11.32\00:24:13.76
and I got tons people praying
and so the Lord was in control.
00:24:13.79\00:24:16.86
You know He was
gonna work it out,
00:24:16.89\00:24:18.36
you know, but I was hardheaded
00:24:18.39\00:24:19.76
and I had to go this
route and that route.
00:24:19.79\00:24:22.07
But, man, He had a plan,
you know, He had plan for me.
00:24:22.10\00:24:25.15
And so I ended up lost
all my privileges like I said,
00:24:25.18\00:24:29.13
I moved from this
place to that place
00:24:29.16\00:24:30.86
all the
maximum-security places and,
00:24:30.89\00:24:33.53
you know, then one day they
just told me to pack my stuff
00:24:33.56\00:24:37.94
and you know I said where am
I going they wouldn't tell me
00:24:37.97\00:24:41.04
and I ended up getting
moved all the way to Virginia.
00:24:41.07\00:24:44.37
I was about is over by Richmond
Virginia, they took me there.
00:24:44.40\00:24:48.62
And you know they just took me
00:24:48.65\00:24:51.01
and moved me up all the prison
00:24:51.04\00:24:52.71
just called interstate compact
00:24:52.74\00:24:54.29
and took me to
Virginia, up haul a whole system
00:24:54.32\00:24:57.28
because they said that they
wanted to through me off guard
00:24:57.31\00:25:00.36
is what the words they use.
00:25:00.39\00:25:02.12
Because they thought I
was still hustling all this
00:25:02.15\00:25:04.63
and doing all this
and so they wanted to
00:25:04.66\00:25:07.28
and there was you
know they took it personal
00:25:07.31\00:25:09.93
because I wouldn't cooperate
00:25:09.96\00:25:11.33
and so they had
move me so I go there
00:25:11.36\00:25:13.59
and I lose all
my privileges again.
00:25:13.62\00:25:15.25
You know on the
maximum-security.
00:25:15.28\00:25:16.65
Didn't know anybody?
00:25:16.68\00:25:18.05
Don't know nobody,
but that's what I needed.
00:25:18.08\00:25:20.09
I needed to get away to works
00:25:20.12\00:25:21.56
because I thought
I had to be somebody.
00:25:21.59\00:25:23.36
I thought I had to be cool and
I had to hold this reputation.
00:25:23.39\00:25:27.30
But when I got to
get away from everybody,
00:25:27.33\00:25:30.02
you know, I'm in a solitary cell
00:25:30.05\00:25:32.15
just with nobody
around that I know
00:25:32.18\00:25:34.34
and just got to spend a
lot of time to sit and think,
00:25:34.37\00:25:37.29
you know, and say
man, this is what I want.
00:25:37.32\00:25:39.87
So they took me to super-max
prison there at Level 6
00:25:39.90\00:25:43.02
and they're
standing there with guns,
00:25:43.05\00:25:44.86
you know and
shooting big rubber bullets
00:25:44.89\00:25:46.62
and these little pellets
and I'm around all these people.
00:25:46.65\00:25:49.27
They brought all the lifers
00:25:49.30\00:25:50.67
because they blew a
big hole out the mountain
00:25:50.70\00:25:53.22
and put this two
super-max prisons there
00:25:53.25\00:25:55.93
and took all their
lifers out there prison
00:25:55.96\00:25:58.39
and put them in there and--
00:25:58.42\00:25:59.98
So just said
even if you break out
00:26:00.01\00:26:01.83
you just gonna
run into a mountain.
00:26:01.86\00:26:03.65
Yeah we're way
up in the mountains,
00:26:03.68\00:26:05.05
miles up you know
and always hill police,
00:26:05.08\00:26:08.39
you know, down there and they
were just opening up this prison
00:26:08.42\00:26:11.74
and they are serious, you know.
00:26:11.77\00:26:13.14
And so here I am.
00:26:13.17\00:26:14.58
I happen to get
sent from Indiana
00:26:14.61\00:26:17.07
to there right when
they open up these prisons
00:26:17.10\00:26:19.71
and so they
raise the point levels,
00:26:19.74\00:26:22.08
you know, because you
got it by point system.
00:26:22.11\00:26:24.44
If you got more
points more trouble,
00:26:24.47\00:26:26.73
then you go to
higher level prison.
00:26:26.76\00:26:28.85
So I just hit
at that wrong time.
00:26:28.88\00:26:31.13
You know I got there
and they open this up
00:26:31.16\00:26:32.72
they want to fill them up,
so they raise the point level.
00:26:32.75\00:26:35.90
You know, so with all my
trouble it raised my points
00:26:35.93\00:26:39.09
and it send me to
Level 6 super-max prison.
00:26:39.12\00:26:42.20
And while I was there though
the Lord knew all the time,
00:26:42.23\00:26:45.30
He knew what He had in mind.
00:26:45.33\00:26:47.57
And when I got there,
I was in miserable mess
00:26:47.60\00:26:49.75
you know the buddy above me
my guy above me had 3,000 years.
00:26:49.78\00:26:55.00
You know, and guys around
me they just had so many years
00:26:55.03\00:26:57.26
and here I am you
know little teddy bear,
00:26:57.29\00:26:59.90
you know I got you know
I am not real bad person,
00:26:59.93\00:27:03.47
I'm just trying to get high.
00:27:03.50\00:27:05.11
You know, I am just want
to get high and that's what,
00:27:05.14\00:27:07.05
that's all I want to
do you know, so here I am
00:27:07.08\00:27:10.20
and man, I had to do a lot
of thinking while I was there.
00:27:10.23\00:27:12.86
And I looked around, I
said is this what I want?
00:27:12.89\00:27:15.39
Because this is my not future,
if I can continue to hustle
00:27:15.42\00:27:18.99
because I go full
force when I do something
00:27:19.02\00:27:21.70
and I thought real hard about.
00:27:21.73\00:27:24.11
Lord was dealing with me
00:27:24.14\00:27:25.51
and man, I just
been, I broke down
00:27:25.54\00:27:27.74
while I was there after I was
there while about nine months.
00:27:27.77\00:27:30.95
Man, I just said,
Lord here you got me.
00:27:30.98\00:27:33.24
You got me, man,
you got me, I give.
00:27:33.27\00:27:35.93
And you know to
that is a huge moment
00:27:35.96\00:27:38.67
because everything led up
to that moment as I am broken,
00:27:38.70\00:27:43.55
I am done, I can't
even carry this anymore.
00:27:43.58\00:27:46.47
I don't want to and I
don't want this to be my life.
00:27:46.50\00:27:48.84
Right hunting
piece and Lord is--
00:27:48.87\00:27:51.94
You know, if you
went to anywhere else
00:27:51.97\00:27:53.80
on the planet other than God.
00:27:53.83\00:27:56.79
They would say so I am so
sorry but you got pay your time
00:27:56.82\00:28:01.69
you know that for
everything that you did
00:28:01.72\00:28:04.97
but God doesn't do that to us.
00:28:05.00\00:28:06.71
It just an amazing thing is
all of the sudden we turn to God
00:28:06.74\00:28:10.31
and what we get from God is
00:28:10.34\00:28:12.15
I am so glad that you
have turn it over to me.
00:28:12.18\00:28:17.33
I love you and we'll be okay.
00:28:17.36\00:28:20.63
That's right and I
needed Him at that time.
00:28:20.66\00:28:23.71
I was there, didn't know
nobody, way away from home
00:28:23.74\00:28:26.95
and I was
just-- I was at the end
00:28:26.98\00:28:29.84
you know, I said, man
I got to do something.
00:28:29.87\00:28:32.20
Because I could have kept going
00:28:32.23\00:28:33.78
but where was I gonna go
00:28:33.81\00:28:35.28
how much further
down can you go you know.
00:28:35.31\00:28:38.62
I'll never make
it home or I'll die.
00:28:38.65\00:28:40.45
People when they
were in ordeal and dying
00:28:40.48\00:28:42.27
and I am thinking
man, that's next for me.
00:28:42.30\00:28:44.34
That is next and I knew it.
00:28:44.37\00:28:46.34
We're gonna take a break
00:28:46.37\00:28:47.85
because I know you
brought a friend with you.
00:28:47.88\00:28:50.33
Yes. Also had a similar story.
00:28:50.36\00:28:53.65
I want to hear
what Bryan has to say
00:28:53.68\00:28:57.07
and then I want to hear what
you guys did with your journey
00:28:57.10\00:29:00.19
after you surrendered to God.
00:29:00.22\00:29:01.97
What does God do next
00:29:02.00\00:29:03.46
because right now it
sounds little hopeless.
00:29:03.49\00:29:05.67
You're in a cell,
maximum-security prison Level 6.
00:29:05.70\00:29:09.90
What does God do?
00:29:09.93\00:29:11.30
And what's amazing to
me about what God does
00:29:11.33\00:29:14.30
as He steps in
and changes everything
00:29:14.33\00:29:17.46
even when it
appears incredibly hopeless.
00:29:17.49\00:29:20.12
So we will be
right back, stay with us.
00:29:20.15\00:29:22.35