The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome back.
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We're talking with
Jasahn and his brother Johanahn.
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And we're talking
about their history
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and where they've
come in their life.
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And the things that
you have talked about
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is just-- it's tragic,
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but it was so normal for
you to jump into a high school
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where you have to go through
metal detectors to get in
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and where people are
selling off bus passes
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and you're dealing candy before
you're starting to deal drugs.
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I mean all of that kind of stuff
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is so foreign to a
lot of people watching
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and now before the break
you talked about being in jail,
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hearing that
your mother has died.
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And nobody is even
there dealing with a grief,
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because you're in jail, I mean,
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you know, you're
just kind of having
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to deal with
that all on your own.
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What--where do
you go from there?
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I went on-- I got sanctioned
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about 5 years for
the state of Kentucky.
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I started about two of
them before I made parole.
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And, you know, all
this emptiness inside
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and I got to say that
when I started selling cocaine
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initially it was because I
was starving literally to death.
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I would probably have
starved on the streets,
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if I had not entered
into that game at the time.
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You were 16, left home,
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didn't have a way
to support yourself
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and so you
picked up what you knew.
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Right. And so--but quickly
it become something different.
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You know, after the first 3 days
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of this out of town adventure
it was no longer a matter
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of doing it for my survival
because I needed to eat.
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But now there's a-- there's--
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and that's how
quickly it happens.
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It became this quest
for-- to be that guy.
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You know, I saw the potential
in it, people liked me.
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I was good at it and
overnight I wasn't hungry
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and overnight
instead of, you know,
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trying to get something to
eat, I was trying to, you know,
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be the producer of things
to eat or something, you know.
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Right, the power
of addiction. Yeah.
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When, you know, you
weren't addicted to drugs.
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Right, I was
addicted to everything
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that it brought
you when you sold them.
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I'm okay. I have
the respect I want.
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I have the power I need
and things are gonna be okay.
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And so when I was
released I didn't deal with the,
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you know--and I guess
in increments, you know,
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small parts I had
dealt with what I was feeling
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being away from
home, losing my mother,
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having a little
brother who was 11 years old.
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He's out on the streets. Right.
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And so when I came home I
didn't really holistically
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look at that
and to deal with it.
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I jumped right
back into what I aspired
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and that was to make my life
being the next drug king pin.
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It's not only with your little
brother's out there running,
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Johanahn's out there running,
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your sister's out there
using-- I mean everybody is--
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this is what-- this
is what you guys know.
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Yeah. This is what you know.
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Yeah, I want to
be all I could be.
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So how do you get out of that?
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So I got in trouble
again because that's my luck.
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And this time I was
in the state of Indiana
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and I remember
what the judge said
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when we were
running an operation
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in another small town called--
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I think it was
in Anson, Indiana.
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And Judge
Carol, he looked at me,
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you know, after
the drug taskforce.
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They've been investigating
me for about a year.
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And when they finally called me
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and the judge
looked at me and he told me
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that I was gonna
receive a very serious sanction.
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And he sentenced me to 20 years.
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Wow. He did.
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He sentenced me to 20 years.
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And at that time
you're still a baby.
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Yeah, I'm 21. Yeah.
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About to be 22. Wow.
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And that's what I did.
They sent me off and that's--
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What did you think, because
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you're with him
during all that time?
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Now he's facing 20 years.
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You know, when we went down
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we actually went down
there for a sentencing.
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So I went down
there and I had just--
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I had just got
injured, probably--
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So this is after--
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It had been a few months--
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well, before I got arrested?
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You got injured in June. Okay.
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Well, we went down
there for the sentencing
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and, you know--
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And had you been shot already?
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Yeah, I've been shot.
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So now you're paralyzed,
shot but still selling.
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Right. And going to his court.
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Yes, so we went
down for the sentencing
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and I just had my son
and so I went down there.
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I was meeting my son--
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You know I see all of heaven
wanting to shake you guys,
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just saying "Stop, I love you.
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Get--you know, get it together."
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Do you know what I mean?
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And at that point
everybody is still playing.
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It was a-- that was a--
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it was a lot of life changing
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things going on at that point.
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I had just been
shot and when I got shot
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I think my son was like 10
or 11 days old when I got shot.
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So that's life
changing right there.
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And for people that didn't
see your program last week,
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is that you were
paralyzed the rest of your life.
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Yeah. Then having a child.
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Yeah, well, I had my son
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and I was able to
walk around with him
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for 10, 11 days
and then I got shot.
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So I was paralyzed
after that and then, you know,
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as I was lying another
life changing experience.
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We went down to his court day
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and they
sentenced him to 20 years.
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So, you know, it was--
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it was-- I had my
older brother there
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and my son and a friend
and just people in the court.
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It hit everybody hard.
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Even--I brought
a friend on there
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who didn't even know my
brother and the whole courtroom,
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you know, everybody just cried.
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My son even cried. He
was about three, four--
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He was 8 months. 8 months old.
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He was 8 months.
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And when the judge
handed that sentence down
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it seemed like, you know,
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everybody in the
courtroom just broke down.
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What did you--
what did you think?
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Because your whole life--
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I thought I didn't
see-- I didn't foresee this.
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I had dreams about it,
spending a lot of time,
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you know,
behind bars or trapped,
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you know, since I was a
kid but I just never thought
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that I would be
somebody who spent
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a great deal of
his life in prison.
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I never thought
that that would be me.
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And I've been
sentenced to, you know,
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a great fraction of a century.
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And my head's spinning.
My brother tells a story.
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I think they let us
see-- they let you see me
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when we were
getting on the elevator.
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Yeah. We was--we was actually
coming down the hallway.
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He was getting on the
elevator and they cuffed him in.
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It was like, you know,
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life was over when
they sentenced him to me.
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That's how I felt.
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And he looked at me,
he looked in my eyes,
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he was like, did like
this, I'll be home in 10.
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And I'm thinking, "10?"
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I'm thinking that's
a whole another world.
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So, you know, he was strong
about it and that's how it was.
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And I was just,
I was telling him,
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you know, I was just wishing
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like I could do every--every
day with him but, you know--
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It's, you know, it's
amazing that he says that
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because I remember, you know,
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months and years
later I'm in the prison
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and I'm learning and
I'm, you know, exercising.
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I remember every time
I'd get on the treadmill
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and you know,
prison beats you down
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and it makes you feel like
you won't make it out, you know.
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Your life is
horrible. In what way?
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You feel suffocated
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because it's a very
oppressive environment.
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And it's designed to make
you feel like nothing, you know.
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And the prisons
today are beautiful.
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It has a lot of
greenery, a lot of flowers.
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They've got
facilities and weights and--
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But you're still in the cell.
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Yeah, in the cell and the
system the way it's set up,
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the culture of it is
very oppressive, you know.
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Sometimes you can't
always see it being an outsider,
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but you're still a number
and so it takes a toll on you.
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And I'd get on this
treadmill and I would run
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and I would think
to myself, you know,
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thinking about
how difficult this was
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and you know, I
had to survive it.
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And I would feel
guilty, 'cause, you know,
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here I am thinking about
how difficult this is for me
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but I'm running on a treadmill.
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And I would think about,
you know, he's my twin brother
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and he'll never be able
to get on a treadmill again.
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He'll never walk again. Yeah.
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He'll never be able to do this.
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Yeah, and, you
know, at some point
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this will be over with
for me but I'll be back home.
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And he'll still be
you know, in a wheelchair.
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And I was in the
county jail again, you know,
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when he got shot,
gotten shot initially.
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You know as an investigative
ploy I had been picked up
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and, you know,
that's all about I knew
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That's our street
and, but nobody told me--
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I think there must have been
orders from the Larsosa family.
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I'm not sure who
issued the decree
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that nobody was to tell me
that my brother had gotten shot,
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because, you know,
I was in jail when---
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They felt like you
were dealing with enough.
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And I was in jail.
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I think somebody specifically--
I had a girlfriend at the time
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who was a hoosier in
Indiana and they told her
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he was in jail
when their mother die.
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And don't tell him that
his brother's in the hospital.
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And nobody did.
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I think that's
probably best but, you know,
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just looking at all
the different things,
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all the--and so
you worry about that,
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you know, in prison, you know,
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who's gonna get hurt,
you know, who might I lose.
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Am I gonna see them again? Yeah.
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Am I gonna get out? Is
the family gonna be the same?
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Am I gonna fit in? Yeah.
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So now you're
imprisoned, it is--
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do you get a sense of--
are you using in prison,
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'cause I know you
can use if you want to.
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I mean are you doing--
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you know, people
are still selling stuff,
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people are still being
robbed with the money there,
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you know, their commissary goods
and all that kind of stuff.
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You can jump into that. Yeah.
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Did you jump into that
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or are you kind of trying
to actually get it together?
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Probably both, you know,
I remember trying to do--
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conduct business on the
outside through my twin.
00:09:48.83\00:09:52.70
I remember having
him pick up some money
00:09:52.73\00:09:55.62
and buying some dope for me
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and trying to getting
him to sell it for me.
00:09:57.14\00:09:59.30
You know, while I was
inside he was still outside.
00:09:59.33\00:10:01.21
And I remember
trying to tell myself that
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that was gonna clean my act
up and not gonna do anything,
00:10:06.97\00:10:09.66
but it wasn't a
strong conviction.
00:10:09.69\00:10:15.13
You know once you convince
yourself that something is okay
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it's difficult to
convince yourself that it's not.
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I know. Right.
00:10:19.33\00:10:20.70
This is the way I live my
life. This is the way it is.
00:10:20.73\00:10:23.31
Now I want to
ask you straight up,
00:10:23.34\00:10:25.96
how did Go get to you?
00:10:25.99\00:10:27.36
How did you get to a place
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where you actually
started to come out of all that?
00:10:29.59\00:10:32.72
Yeah, it was the
start to come out of all--
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because it wasn't
all of a sudden thing.
00:10:34.41\00:10:35.87
It was kind of like
the velveteen rabbit
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first gradually and
then all of a sudden.
00:10:37.36\00:10:39.29
So that happened immediately.
00:10:39.32\00:10:40.81
When I was in the county
jail the towers had just fell
00:10:40.84\00:10:43.74
and there was all
the stuff in the media.
00:10:43.77\00:10:45.32
And everybody was trying
to do something proactive
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and something good, you know,
in defense to this country.
00:10:48.69\00:10:53.19
So the whole
country was in a trauma.
00:10:53.22\00:10:55.15
Yeah, and there are
people who were doing,
00:10:55.18\00:10:57.31
you know, great things
00:10:57.34\00:10:58.71
to answer these new challenges.
00:10:58.74\00:11:02.15
And that was out maybe
because he was a black,
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maybe because--I don't
know what the guy's name was.
00:11:03.93\00:11:06.49
Maybe I was watching CNN
and I'm in the county jail
00:11:06.52\00:11:08.91
and there's a young,
slim, tall, black guy
00:11:08.94\00:11:11.48
and he's giving a press
conference about something
00:11:11.51\00:11:14.64
that the government
or some agency is doing,
00:11:14.67\00:11:17.40
you know, in
response to the recent demand
00:11:17.43\00:11:20.88
for terror-- yeah, and tragedy.
00:11:20.91\00:11:22.75
And I looked at
him and, you know,
00:11:22.78\00:11:26.32
all I ever wanted was to
do something with my life.
00:11:26.35\00:11:29.32
And I'm looking at this
guy on TV and I shook my head
00:11:29.35\00:11:32.02
because I thought there he is
and I thought I wasted my life.
00:11:32.05\00:11:35.55
Yeah. I wasted my life.
00:11:35.58\00:11:37.30
Did your heart cry I actually
wanted do something good,
00:11:37.33\00:11:41.42
I wanted to be recognized? Yeah.
00:11:41.45\00:11:43.28
And, you know, I
made-- I convinced myself
00:11:43.31\00:11:46.49
that it was all
but impossible and--
00:11:46.52\00:11:48.78
but the truth of
the matter was that
00:11:48.81\00:11:50.18
here I was in the county jail
00:11:50.21\00:11:51.58
because I was a low
life, selfish drug dealer.
00:11:51.61\00:11:54.61
I had a little
brother who needed me
00:11:54.64\00:11:56.19
and the fact was that
there were good people
00:11:56.22\00:11:58.67
who were doing good
things all the time.
00:11:58.70\00:12:00.26
I just wasn't
one of them. Right.
00:12:00.29\00:12:01.78
And that convicted me. Right.
00:12:01.81\00:12:03.88
That's incredible
because you know for a lot of us
00:12:03.91\00:12:08.63
the guy was raised in an
area that wasn't the best
00:12:08.66\00:12:11.13
and for a lot of us what
we see is what we become,
00:12:11.16\00:12:14.13
you know, and especially
when you see it from the time
00:12:14.16\00:12:16.14
that you're really
little and those role models,
00:12:16.17\00:12:19.53
those-- you know seeing
00:12:19.56\00:12:21.91
folks do incredible things,
there's some power in that.
00:12:21.94\00:12:25.29
And that's what you
experienced that moment.
00:12:25.32\00:12:26.96
I saw somebody doing something.
00:12:26.99\00:12:29.60
And so where did you go
from-- where did that seed go?
00:12:29.63\00:12:33.99
I think that I
wanted to-- at that point
00:12:35.43\00:12:38.02
it was important
for me to educate myself
00:12:38.05\00:12:40.52
and learn new
things and so I did.
00:12:40.55\00:12:43.14
But, you know, there was
still critical pieces missing.
00:12:43.17\00:12:45.64
You know I had to
develop a conscience in areas
00:12:45.67\00:12:47.31
that there wasn't one anymore.
00:12:47.34\00:12:49.16
You know I can't make myself
feel guilty for selling drugs.
00:12:49.19\00:12:52.55
Yeah, because it's my business.
00:12:52.58\00:12:54.25
Yeah, you know, I've
convinced myself that it's okay.
00:12:54.28\00:12:56.32
It's not the same
to me as, you know,
00:12:56.35\00:12:58.11
taking advantage of a woman.
00:12:58.14\00:12:59.51
That I will feel guilty about.
00:12:59.54\00:13:01.32
But I've convinced myself
that selling drugs is okay.
00:13:01.35\00:13:03.98
I had to. I did it for years
and so it's victimless to me.
00:13:04.01\00:13:06.87
So how do you
backdoor that and--
00:13:06.90\00:13:10.59
We're talking about,
even on this program,
00:13:10.62\00:13:12.45
is that having God actually
come in and teach us to feel,
00:13:12.48\00:13:17.02
teach us to the right and
wrong of all that kind of stuff
00:13:17.05\00:13:20.51
and you're saying
that at that point
00:13:20.54\00:13:22.02
I just didn't have
it, I didn't get it.
00:13:22.05\00:13:24.14
Yeah, you know some things I did
00:13:24.17\00:13:26.00
but on some things
like that, I just didn't.
00:13:26.03\00:13:28.65
And so that's-- I
guess that's the evidence
00:13:28.68\00:13:30.26
that it still
wasn't spiritual for me.
00:13:30.29\00:13:33.01
It was just based on
what felt right to me.
00:13:33.04\00:13:35.59
And so I did get some education.
00:13:35.62\00:13:38.85
I did learn some things,
but it wasn't till later on
00:13:38.88\00:13:43.03
that I really
began to pay attention
00:13:43.06\00:13:44.71
to what it was
that my life meant.
00:13:44.74\00:13:47.82
You know what was I after?
00:13:48.87\00:13:51.64
What was it that I
aspire to-- Who are you?
00:13:51.67\00:13:53.19
Yeah, who am I?
Yeah, who are you?
00:13:53.22\00:13:54.87
And I think, you
know-- when you're in prison
00:13:54.90\00:13:58.16
and a part of you feels
like am I gonna get out of this,
00:13:58.19\00:13:59.89
but a part of you
stresses completely
00:13:59.92\00:14:01.29
about how you're
gonna make a living,
00:14:01.32\00:14:03.12
you know, how
you're gonna make--
00:14:03.15\00:14:04.52
how you're gonna make yourself.
00:14:04.55\00:14:07.05
When I came out of my lifestyle,
00:14:07.08\00:14:10.27
I think that was
really interesting is
00:14:10.30\00:14:12.16
when I was working in clubs
and selling drug there are times
00:14:12.19\00:14:14.51
I could make $1200 in a day.
00:14:14.54\00:14:16.92
And now somebody says I want
you to be normal and together
00:14:16.95\00:14:20.96
and I don't even have
job, I don't have a skill.
00:14:20.99\00:14:23.45
I don't know what I'm doing
and that's a really big deal
00:14:23.48\00:14:26.38
for a lot of folks, is
that-- but how, you know.
00:14:26.41\00:14:30.55
Everything I know is wrong.
00:14:30.58\00:14:32.26
And then at some point when
God gets you to the right place,
00:14:32.29\00:14:34.69
when He got me to a
certain place, the point was,
00:14:34.72\00:14:39.50
as I heard my brother
mention on an earlier segment,
00:14:39.53\00:14:42.85
you can still be a man
and you still have value.
00:14:42.88\00:14:46.25
And so I got back to a
point where it was people,
00:14:46.28\00:14:51.15
at least for a
moment and pleasing God
00:14:51.18\00:14:54.59
that was important to me.
00:14:54.62\00:14:55.99
You know you get these
rare glimpses of clarity
00:14:56.02\00:14:59.47
where you recognize
that nothing matters
00:14:59.50\00:15:01.29
because nothing is
guaranteed, nothing is certain.
00:15:01.32\00:15:05.20
And so it's important
to grasp all those moments.
00:15:05.23\00:15:08.01
I remember in one
moment I talked to a guy
00:15:08.04\00:15:09.92
and I told him, you know,
00:15:09.95\00:15:11.83
I don't even want
to get out of here
00:15:11.86\00:15:13.68
until I'm absolutely ready.
00:15:13.71\00:15:16.18
Wow. Yeah.
00:15:16.21\00:15:17.58
And that's--you know you got
to watch what you say to God.
00:15:17.61\00:15:19.17
I know, and I'm right with you.
00:15:19.20\00:15:21.22
Right, because
right at me-- you know--
00:15:21.25\00:15:23.49
I'm not feeling like a
criminal anymore and so--
00:15:23.52\00:15:26.52
but that's not what I
meant when I said that to God.
00:15:26.55\00:15:30.74
And God knew
what was best for me
00:15:30.77\00:15:33.24
and so there was more
to it than just not wanting
00:15:33.27\00:15:36.09
to be a criminal anymore.
00:15:36.12\00:15:37.49
It was-- What
was the more to it?
00:15:37.52\00:15:39.91
The more to it is
what are my values?
00:15:39.94\00:15:42.30
You know is it important
to me to have--is it more--
00:15:43.84\00:15:47.19
which is more
important, to have stability,
00:15:47.22\00:15:49.16
to have career and
to have money and status
00:15:49.19\00:15:53.00
or is it important to recognize
00:15:53.03\00:15:55.61
that there are people out
here that God wants to reach?
00:15:55.64\00:15:59.02
There are people out
here who are suffering things
00:15:59.05\00:16:00.90
that nobody understands
or wants to pay attention to
00:16:00.93\00:16:04.22
and that's a real
need, that's a real harvest
00:16:04.25\00:16:07.01
and there are few workers who
are committed to these chores.
00:16:07.04\00:16:11.98
And so was it more
important to me to have a status
00:16:12.01\00:16:14.60
that's temporary and not certain
00:16:14.63\00:16:17.60
or to really ask for
something that God is ordaining?
00:16:17.63\00:16:21.99
So as you're in
prison, all of that,
00:16:22.02\00:16:24.70
is it the stuff that your mom
kind of brought to the table?
00:16:24.73\00:16:28.49
Are you going to
chapel while you're in prison?
00:16:28.52\00:16:31.06
I mean because it
sounds like God is really
00:16:31.09\00:16:33.57
starting to kind of
take your heart of stone
00:16:33.60\00:16:36.76
and break through
some of that stuff.
00:16:36.79\00:16:38.82
Yeah, but, you
know, even beyond chapel
00:16:38.85\00:16:41.57
and the churches and
the religious programs,
00:16:41.60\00:16:46.53
because it has
to be beyond that.
00:16:46.56\00:16:49.63
You know even here,
in general population,
00:16:49.66\00:16:53.54
mainstream society, you know,
we go to church and it has to be
00:16:53.57\00:16:56.74
more than about
going to services,
00:16:56.77\00:16:58.67
because we go there and we
tend do things religiously.
00:16:58.70\00:17:02.70
But how much of
God is really in it?
00:17:02.73\00:17:04.23
And so He began
to touch me in ways
00:17:04.26\00:17:07.71
that I couldn't get just from
going to services or, you know,
00:17:07.74\00:17:11.01
learning and
going to Bible studies.
00:17:11.04\00:17:12.52
It was about more than that.
00:17:12.55\00:17:14.01
It was more real than that.
00:17:14.04\00:17:15.45
It has to be
more real than that.
00:17:15.48\00:17:17.24
And I love the
fact that you said
00:17:17.27\00:17:18.73
that during
that whole 9/11 thing
00:17:18.76\00:17:20.66
and the tragedy is that
your heart started to say
00:17:20.69\00:17:23.88
I have always wanted to actually
do something good, worthwhile.
00:17:23.91\00:17:28.35
And so it sounds like
all of that kind of started
00:17:28.38\00:17:31.42
to wake up for you in
prison, that you started to say,
00:17:31.45\00:17:34.56
"You know what
is it and who am I?"
00:17:34.59\00:17:36.70
Yeah, you know I
remember bargaining with God
00:17:36.73\00:17:39.24
at 13 and 14, you know,
00:17:39.27\00:17:42.01
after having been
a weirdo all my life.
00:17:42.04\00:17:43.93
You know this kid who
wanted to be on his mother
00:17:43.96\00:17:46.32
and talk to God
and bargaining with Him
00:17:46.35\00:17:48.97
that I need to go around
the corner because I need to,
00:17:49.00\00:17:52.66
you know, make me a
stronger man when I come back.
00:17:52.69\00:17:55.69
And so I remember telling God
that I got to get out of here
00:17:55.72\00:17:57.87
and be a gangster because this--
00:17:57.90\00:17:59.86
I'll see you
later. I'm gonna jump out.
00:17:59.89\00:18:01.26
Yeah. This is not
working for me in Detroit.
00:18:01.29\00:18:03.36
And so, you know,
when you do that though
00:18:03.39\00:18:05.63
it takes you through some things
and you wonder if you can ever
00:18:05.66\00:18:07.62
get back to where you
are and where you began.
00:18:07.65\00:18:10.14
And it took some time.
00:18:10.17\00:18:13.08
And I remember some
nights, those rare moments,
00:18:13.11\00:18:15.73
you know, laying in
the bed and telling God,
00:18:15.76\00:18:17.41
recognizing that
nothing else really matters.
00:18:17.44\00:18:19.73
You can have me and do
what you want to do in my life
00:18:19.76\00:18:23.31
because nothing
else really matters.
00:18:23.34\00:18:25.24
So you surrendered to Him?
00:18:25.27\00:18:26.68
Yes. In prison?
00:18:26.71\00:18:28.53
Yes, right at the end. Wow.
00:18:28.56\00:18:31.56
And what changed,
because, you know,
00:18:31.59\00:18:33.94
it's like there's
got to be for you--
00:18:33.97\00:18:37.71
now you're gonna have
to talk to your brother.
00:18:37.74\00:18:40.83
And I already
know that your sister's
00:18:40.86\00:18:42.81
really kind of coming around,
00:18:42.84\00:18:44.90
all of that kind
of stuff is changing
00:18:44.93\00:18:46.47
and so now you are in prison
and the same kind of thing.
00:18:46.50\00:18:48.86
Is it the stuff that your mom
00:18:48.89\00:18:50.68
said to you early on
starting to make sense?
00:18:50.71\00:18:53.71
Right, it's really,
00:18:53.74\00:18:56.93
it's kind of
ironic because yeah,
00:18:56.96\00:18:59.39
I'm undergoing
this change inside
00:18:59.42\00:19:00.96
but my brother had already--
00:19:00.99\00:19:02.36
you know he's
witnessing to me by this time,
00:19:02.39\00:19:04.24
already for years he's
writing me and telling me
00:19:04.27\00:19:06.33
"Bro, did you know
that the Sabbath is really
00:19:06.36\00:19:08.22
Saturday and not Sunday
and, you know, pulling on
00:19:08.25\00:19:10.83
debating over the
phone about foods to eat
00:19:10.86\00:19:13.13
and, you know--I'm
like, "You're irritating me."
00:19:13.16\00:19:16.18
What are you talking about?
00:19:16.21\00:19:17.65
And so--yeah, so
that's, you know,
00:19:17.68\00:19:20.57
when I come home even now
they continue to witness to me
00:19:20.60\00:19:26.44
and so when I--and I
witness to them as well.
00:19:26.47\00:19:28.62
But it's-- it wasn't a--
00:19:30.55\00:19:32.85
they didn't have to pull
me back in and I certainly
00:19:32.88\00:19:35.96
had nothing to do with
my brother's redemption
00:19:35.99\00:19:39.30
or, you know, any of them.
00:19:39.33\00:19:40.70
They already had
the stuff together.
00:19:40.73\00:19:42.10
So they were witnessing to you.
00:19:42.13\00:19:43.50
So he comes out
and at what point
00:19:43.53\00:19:47.71
do you guys actually
decide to go in the ministry
00:19:47.74\00:19:50.39
and how did that develop?
00:19:50.42\00:19:51.79
That was when I was--
00:19:51.82\00:19:53.19
And what's the name of
it all that kind good stuff?
00:19:53.22\00:19:54.87
So that was when I
was still inside and
00:19:54.90\00:19:57.15
the name of the organization
is "This Hood of Ours."
00:19:57.18\00:20:00.31
And so, you know,
as we're learning--
00:20:00.34\00:20:01.87
you know God, He redeems you
00:20:01.90\00:20:04.16
and cleans you up
and gives you a heart.
00:20:04.19\00:20:07.11
He softens your heart,
gives you a heart of flesh.
00:20:07.14\00:20:09.22
And then--but the question
becomes now what do I do?
00:20:09.25\00:20:12.49
Yeah. Who am I?
00:20:12.52\00:20:13.89
What am I gonna
do with all this?
00:20:13.92\00:20:15.29
Yeah, how I express this.
00:20:15.32\00:20:16.69
And so I remember
praying that He shows a need.
00:20:16.72\00:20:20.59
I guess I recognized that there
has to be a need to be met.
00:20:20.62\00:20:23.25
And so, you
know, we talked about
00:20:23.28\00:20:26.18
approaches to make you know,
00:20:26.21\00:20:30.24
and trying to
invigorate communities.
00:20:30.27\00:20:33.59
So that's you and Johanahn
are talking about that, right?
00:20:33.62\00:20:36.29
It was me, it was Johanahn
and there's a third party,
00:20:36.32\00:20:39.10
Amy Halloway, she's
a co-founder as well.
00:20:39.13\00:20:42.11
And she was
actually a professor of mine
00:20:42.14\00:20:43.65
when I was in school in prison.
00:20:43.68\00:20:48.22
She was my
communications teacher.
00:20:48.25\00:20:49.62
Did you think
that when you were--
00:20:49.65\00:20:51.02
when you did turn it around
00:20:51.05\00:20:52.42
and you were
witnessing to your brother,
00:20:52.45\00:20:54.37
did you think he
was gonna get it?
00:20:54.40\00:20:57.55
No, at first I didn't,
00:20:57.58\00:20:59.33
because I remember
having conversations
00:20:59.36\00:21:00.96
on the phone with him
when he was locked up before
00:21:00.99\00:21:03.38
and--not that I was
trying to witness to him then
00:21:03.41\00:21:06.03
but I was still trying
to tell him like, you know,
00:21:06.06\00:21:09.86
I guess it was
some sort of witness
00:21:09.89\00:21:12.59
and I was just like don't go
back out of town and sell drugs.
00:21:12.62\00:21:15.30
We can do it here together.
00:21:15.33\00:21:16.70
But--no, but he
was kind of still
00:21:16.73\00:21:19.22
hard-headed then so I witnessed.
00:21:19.25\00:21:22.03
Even then he wouldn't listen.
00:21:22.06\00:21:23.45
He would just have
conversations on the phone
00:21:23.48\00:21:25.41
from prison saying,
Well, you know, Johanahn,
00:21:25.44\00:21:27.36
when they let me
out I'm coming back,
00:21:27.39\00:21:28.76
right back down
here, so I would just--
00:21:28.79\00:21:31.12
you know when I witnessed
to him by the Lord I know.
00:21:31.15\00:21:33.45
You know, I'm like,
yeah, this is not working.
00:21:33.48\00:21:35.51
It is like you are irritating me
00:21:35.54\00:21:36.91
Yeah, this is not
gonna work at all.
00:21:36.94\00:21:38.89
So, you know, to
me I love the fact
00:21:38.92\00:21:40.92
that all of a
sudden now you're saying
00:21:40.95\00:21:43.53
we've got to be
able to take all of this
00:21:43.56\00:21:45.98
and see a need that
would reach our heart.
00:21:46.01\00:21:49.84
And the need was what?
00:21:49.87\00:21:52.28
In our minds
neighborhood community,
00:21:52.31\00:21:54.86
you know, the grassroots
community development,
00:21:54.89\00:21:57.50
trying to increase
kinship and responsibility
00:21:57.53\00:22:01.87
and communities. Exactly.
00:22:01.90\00:22:03.87
You know 'cause to me
the first time I heard
00:22:03.90\00:22:06.04
you talk about your
ministry and what you guys do,
00:22:06.07\00:22:10.91
it's almost like, you know,
00:22:10.94\00:22:12.96
you're saying that
there's a whole group,
00:22:12.99\00:22:15.53
there's a whole community that
if somebody doesn't intervene
00:22:15.56\00:22:19.73
these are the choices they have.
00:22:19.76\00:22:21.50
So what can we do to
actually make it healthier,
00:22:21.53\00:22:25.45
to bring health
into that community?
00:22:25.48\00:22:27.32
And somebody's
got to pay for that,
00:22:27.35\00:22:28.92
somebody's got to-- you know
00:22:28.95\00:22:30.32
so talk about some of the
things that you thought about
00:22:30.35\00:22:33.65
or actually, you
know, how it's developed
00:22:33.68\00:22:36.61
and the things
that you thought about.
00:22:36.64\00:22:38.38
You mean in the development
stages of the organization
00:22:38.41\00:22:40.39
or just some of them
which we are operating?
00:22:40.42\00:22:42.18
Well, now you're
still talking about it
00:22:42.21\00:22:43.93
but I know that you did
like the community garden
00:22:43.96\00:22:46.63
and you did some other
stuff that I just love that.
00:22:46.66\00:22:49.11
So we run this
really aggressive campaigns
00:22:49.14\00:22:51.73
and the end game
is always to inspire
00:22:51.76\00:22:56.04
and mobilize the people
to improve their own lives
00:22:56.07\00:22:59.35
by focusing on
improving their own communities.
00:22:59.38\00:23:01.86
And so that looks like--it
comes in all shapes and forms,
00:23:01.89\00:23:05.73
just depending on the needs
of the particular community.
00:23:05.76\00:23:09.37
And so recent trends are
people with a lot of money
00:23:09.40\00:23:13.83
or people with not a lot
of money, they have property.
00:23:13.86\00:23:16.51
They abandon it and it
sits there and it lowers--
00:23:16.54\00:23:19.71
property value
lowers the morale and--
00:23:19.74\00:23:22.16
And for people that haven't seen
that it really just sits there.
00:23:22.19\00:23:25.46
People move in.
They may start a fire,
00:23:25.49\00:23:28.24
'cause they're
trying to keep warm,
00:23:28.27\00:23:29.66
half of the place burns
down and it still sits there
00:23:29.69\00:23:33.05
and that could be
in any neighborhood.
00:23:33.08\00:23:35.80
Yeah, and, you know,
the sentiment that spreads
00:23:35.83\00:23:38.38
is that anything
goes here, you know.
00:23:38.41\00:23:40.56
We're talking about
a broken windows theory
00:23:40.59\00:23:42.20
and the way that can--
you know a broken window
00:23:42.23\00:23:43.97
can influence behavior
in a community negatively,
00:23:44.00\00:23:47.71
imagine what a
black burned down,
00:23:47.74\00:23:50.31
condemned houses
can do or-- It's huge.
00:23:50.34\00:23:52.22
Two blocks of unkempt
fields where houses used to be.
00:23:52.25\00:23:55.71
You know the house we
grew up in is a field.
00:23:55.74\00:23:57.82
And so, you know, that
really influences the community.
00:23:57.85\00:24:01.67
You know it affects the
way we look at where we live.
00:24:01.70\00:24:05.25
It affects the way
we look at each other
00:24:05.28\00:24:06.74
and it affects the
way we look at ourselves.
00:24:06.77\00:24:09.39
I'm not worth much
if this is where I live
00:24:09.42\00:24:12.61
and this is the value of it.
00:24:12.64\00:24:14.42
And so we try to teach
from asset base approach,
00:24:14.45\00:24:17.42
we try to encourage communities
to look at the positive
00:24:17.45\00:24:21.97
and look at perceived
negatives as opportunities
00:24:22.00\00:24:25.22
and assets like
an abandoned field.
00:24:25.25\00:24:26.77
What can you do with it?
00:24:26.80\00:24:28.28
We can grow gardens, you know.
00:24:28.31\00:24:30.66
Grow some vegetables.
Yeah, grow some vegetables.
00:24:30.69\00:24:32.63
Flowers. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:32.66\00:24:34.15
Work out
together, hang out together.
00:24:34.18\00:24:35.85
Put together apart.
00:24:35.88\00:24:37.25
And the end game has
to be increased goodwill.
00:24:37.28\00:24:41.33
Do you know what I
thought was incredible
00:24:41.36\00:24:43.01
about you guys is
the fact that okay,
00:24:43.04\00:24:46.55
this is gonna cost
money, who's gonna pay for it?
00:24:46.58\00:24:48.93
We need to put grants off
00:24:48.96\00:24:50.49
and your business sense
actually kicked in again.
00:24:50.52\00:24:55.46
It kicked in
this ministry. Right.
00:24:55.49\00:24:59.34
Yeah and, you know,
raising money is tough
00:24:59.37\00:25:01.14
and so it's really competitive.
People are really territorial.
00:25:01.17\00:25:05.44
And so, you know,
we've come to the point
00:25:05.47\00:25:06.84
where I'm a full-time
employee for our organization.
00:25:06.87\00:25:11.42
I don't always get a pay check.
00:25:11.45\00:25:12.94
And so we've realized
that if you come to the table
00:25:12.97\00:25:15.98
and we're conveners and so we're
not direct service providers.
00:25:16.01\00:25:19.06
We try to get
people to communicate
00:25:19.09\00:25:20.46
and we work hard
to inspire people.
00:25:20.49\00:25:22.78
To work together. Yeah.
00:25:22.81\00:25:24.22
And we also help communities
to get those victories
00:25:24.25\00:25:27.60
that they need to look
at themselves differently.
00:25:27.63\00:25:29.81
And--but when you come
to the table and you say,
00:25:29.84\00:25:31.57
"We're gonna help
you do all of this,"
00:25:31.60\00:25:32.97
but when
somebody has to help us,
00:25:33.00\00:25:35.28
then people get
territorial and they feel like
00:25:35.31\00:25:37.56
they've got
leverage and they'll say,
00:25:37.59\00:25:38.96
"I don't have to work with you.
00:25:38.99\00:25:40.36
You need us.
You know we're set."
00:25:40.39\00:25:41.76
And so we're to the
point where we realize
00:25:41.79\00:25:43.16
that you're not
always gonna have the money
00:25:43.19\00:25:44.58
and so we worked for free.
00:25:44.61\00:25:46.85
You know, we wait
for God to provide
00:25:46.88\00:25:49.40
and because for us it's
really about the change.
00:25:49.43\00:25:51.67
It's not about
building an organization.
00:25:51.70\00:25:53.40
It's about affecting
change, change in lives.
00:25:53.43\00:25:56.06
But I really believe that
part of what you offer is hope
00:25:56.09\00:26:01.86
for that kid that is
growing up in that neighborhood.
00:26:01.89\00:26:04.53
It's like, you
know, we've got to make
00:26:04.56\00:26:05.93
these neighborhoods healthier
00:26:05.96\00:26:08.74
as this child will
learn what I learned.
00:26:08.77\00:26:11.17
Will be out
there doing what I did.
00:26:11.20\00:26:13.80
You know we believe that if
we can change that child's life,
00:26:13.83\00:26:16.94
you know, if we can get
him to look at the neighborhood
00:26:16.97\00:26:20.06
different from the
way we looked at it
00:26:20.09\00:26:22.11
then you've possibly
grabbed an entire generation.
00:26:22.14\00:26:25.99
And if we can
take that neighborhood
00:26:26.02\00:26:27.79
it becomes-- they
have a different outlook.
00:26:27.82\00:26:30.11
It becomes more self sustaining,
00:26:30.14\00:26:31.87
then we possibly
create an opportunity
00:26:31.90\00:26:34.09
to create a ripple
effect and spread impact.
00:26:34.12\00:26:37.96
Because, you know, how many
people have--don't have jobs?
00:26:37.99\00:26:40.56
But then again how
many people have jobs
00:26:40.59\00:26:42.32
that are dead end
and are unsatisfied,
00:26:42.35\00:26:44.63
unfulfilling, unrewarding
00:26:44.66\00:26:46.25
because Christ isn't in it?
00:26:46.28\00:26:47.65
You know God's not in our lives.
00:26:47.68\00:26:49.05
We let our bosses, our
jobs, our co-operations,
00:26:49.08\00:26:53.60
even our government sometimes,
dangle carrots before us.
00:26:53.63\00:26:56.14
We become dependent upon
what they have to offer us
00:26:56.17\00:26:59.73
and we're no longer looking at
what we can do for one another.
00:26:59.76\00:27:02.14
And that's a whole program
is that how do you decide
00:27:02.17\00:27:06.08
to take ownership
of yourself. Yeah.
00:27:06.11\00:27:08.75
Not be dependent
on some organizations,
00:27:08.78\00:27:12.27
even welfare and charity
00:27:12.30\00:27:13.98
and disability and all
of those kind of stuff,
00:27:14.01\00:27:16.43
because once I
step away from those
00:27:16.46\00:27:18.43
I am empowered to actually
be a benefit to the community
00:27:18.46\00:27:23.26
and to my
families and all of that.
00:27:23.29\00:27:24.91
And you're
saying you so know that
00:27:24.94\00:27:28.32
that I wanted somehow
bring that back to the community
00:27:28.35\00:27:31.19
I grew up in. Yes.
00:27:31.22\00:27:32.74
That's awesome.
00:27:32.77\00:27:34.14
Thank you. That is awesome.
00:27:34.17\00:27:35.54
So to me, I've got to say,
00:27:35.57\00:27:36.94
it was incredible
having you on the program,
00:27:36.97\00:27:39.00
hearing your testimony
00:27:39.03\00:27:40.41
and hen from even
last week hearing yours
00:27:40.44\00:27:44.29
and hearing
your story this week,
00:27:44.32\00:27:46.02
and the fact that God
just is gonna is stepping
00:27:46.05\00:27:48.57
back into your lives
and having you stand up.
00:27:48.60\00:27:51.79
And it sounds like
you are becoming the guy
00:27:51.82\00:27:55.08
that is gonna make a difference.
00:27:55.11\00:27:57.06
I'm gonna stand up
and do something good
00:27:57.09\00:27:58.54
with all of this stuff
that I've done in my life.
00:27:58.57\00:28:02.43
Thank you for joining
us. Thanks for having us.
00:28:02.46\00:28:04.87
We'll be right
back. Stay with us.
00:28:04.90\00:28:07.80