The following program discusses
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sensitive issues
related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to
"Celebrating Life in Recovery."
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I'm Cheri, your host.
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Today I'm gonna introduce you
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to a friend of
mine from Detroit.
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He has been through the
fire. He has been in gangs.
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He's been the dealer, the guy.
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And now, he is a man of
God. It's a powerful story.
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Welcome back.
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This season we're
talking about kind of the steps
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after recovery,
after you stop doing drugs,
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after you stop drinking,
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after you do the whole
kind of detox and all that,
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you stand up and
you're in your own skin.
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And I am telling
you, there are some times
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I just had to deal
with insecurity, shame,
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I lie, and I manipulate,
and all that kind of stuff
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and I'm looking
at all those issues.
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And those issues
are not easy to look at.
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And today what
I'd like to bring out
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is one of the
deadliest thing is that kind
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of internal shame that we have.
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And it can be deep
seeded in our heart.
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We feel that if
people actually knew us
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that they would not like us.
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If they actually knew
what we were capable of,
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all those kind of things that,
you know, I wouldn't fit in,
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and I wouldn't be
able to do recovery.
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So we start hiding
all that kind of stuff.
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There's an author
that calls it a deadly sin.
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It's one of the top deadly
sins is that internal shame.
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And, you know, we did a show
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not too long ago
with a guy named Kasey.
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And the guy is like 6' 4".
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He's been in
prison for 24 years,
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all of that kind of
stuff, meets God in jail.
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And God delights in him,
literally delights in him.
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There was something
with that relationship
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that just
changed this man's heart.
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And the other day I'm in church,
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I did this sermon
in the local church,
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and I'm getting
ready to finish that.
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And he comes up to me and
he's got tears in his eyes.
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And he said, "Cheri,
what if they really knew me?"
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And I thought, "If
we really knew you,
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we would love you.
Are you kidding me?"
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But that shame keeps him so--
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in such bondage that he says
that if somebody really knew me
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they wouldn't let
me in the building.
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They wouldn't let me sit here.
They wouldn't give me that job.
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She wouldn't
love me, all of those
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kind of things
that we tell ourselves.
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And it's really important during
that time in your recovery
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to tell yourself the truth.
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You have an advocate in
heaven. Christ came down.
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You know, like
any 12 step program,
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it's like you've got to
admit you have a problem
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and that's really
clear to most of us.
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You got to admit
there's-- you got to know
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that there's God that
can restore you to sanity.
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And step 3 is, you got know
that he loves you. He loves you.
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And all of that
shame, all of that stuff,
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he really says that
if you surrender it to me
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I promise you, not
only will I take it,
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I will clothe you with
the righteousness of my son.
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And I didn't get
that for a long time.
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It's like, what you mean
that everything that Jesus is,
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I become, as He
works on my junk?
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I love that. How cool is that?
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You know, so I'm
working on my lying,
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manipulating, my shame,
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all of the things I
know about who I am,
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the fact that I never
knew how to even be myself.
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And the whole time,
God is looking at me,
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He's looking at the son.
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He sees Christ
totally as everyone is working
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on my stuff, all of
heaven is working on my stuff.
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And so when you
start really look at
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what is underneath
all of the addictions,
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you're gonna see
some ugly things.
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You're gonna see
shame. You're gonna see anger.
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You're gonna see,
you know, even rage.
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You're gonna see insecurities.
You're gonna see fear.
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You know, we'll talk
about that some time.
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Most of us don't like
to admit that I'm afraid.
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But you're gonna see
all that kind of stuff
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and let God
unravel that for you.
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Because, you
know, if we hide it,
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it's gonna eat us up
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and the devil
just stays in out ear,
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na-na-na,
na-na-na, na-na-na, na.
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But, if we
surrender it, we get healing,
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and it's
absolutely the coolest thing.
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I'm gonna introduce
you to the guest right now.
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And I just did a
church in Detroit,
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not long ago, and I loved it.
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Out of every place
that I went, for some reason
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this church had people
that I just could relate to.
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I mean, in every single way.
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And there was a girl especially.
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I wish I could
remember her name--
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I'll ask our guest, but
she's like in the back like
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"Amen, I like that, all right."
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And I loved her 'cause
she was loud and she was funny
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and I knew she had
come from some places.
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And--but the person that I
probably fell in love with most,
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I'm gonna
introduce you to right now.
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And I just got
to say, Han, Johan--
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Johanahn?" Yes.
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But everybody
calls you Han. Yes.
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And I want to say
welcome to my program.
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How cool is
that? It's very cool.
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So we met in Detroit Aha.
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at the
Seventh-day Adventist church.
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I think it's Detroit...
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Detroit Northwest
Church. Northwest Church.
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And I loved--it was
probably the only church ever
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that I had
somebody come up and say,
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"You know, I'm on parole
and I have to go to meetings.
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They said your
meeting would work.
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Can you sign my card
for my parole officer?"
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How funny was that? I
just--and I signed his card.
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And I thought,
yeah, I can sign it.
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But you an I talked.
And maybe you and I talked.
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We talked about
a number of things
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like where you came from.
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But what got me the most is,
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we were sitting there in between
a break and you asked me if I--
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if I had a
strong stomach. Right.
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You know, do you
have a strong stomach?
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And I said, yeah, yeah, why?
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I want to show you something
that someone just sent me.
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And I want you to
explain what you showed me.
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What I showed you was
a picture of my brother--
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one of my brother's
friends. He had just got killed.
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And what had
happened was I guess someone
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must have took the
picture after they killed him
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and it was kind of like
floating all over the city.
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And I'm-- and I get the picture
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and I'm kind of
looking at it like,
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you know, we are at a point--
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well, I'm at a
point in my life where,
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you know, this type
of stuff is kind normal
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where you get
pictures in the phone of,
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you know, friend's dead
bodies and things like that.
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So it kind a-- it kind a like--
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when I see stuff like
that, it kind of shakes me up.
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And I'm like, you know, 'cause
I'm so used to stuff like that,
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but I know I'm not
supposed to be at the same time.
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And God has literally taken
you, like you're at a place
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where you're
gonna move beyond that.
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Is helpful. But that's--
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that picture was sent to you
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as I was speaking. Exactly.
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Here was--here was
where I'm getting on my phone
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while you're
talking. Right. Right.
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And I looked at
that-- and I don't want
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a gross somebody out but I mean,
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you know, there
was pieces of this kid
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all over the car still.
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You know, this was a
pretty intense picture.
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And at that point I
looked at you and I thought,
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you know what,
nobody has any idea
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what you and God are gonna
have to do to walk into a--
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walk into recovery, to
really get your life back.
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Nobody has any idea. So I know--
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and I know you
didn't start there.
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So talk to us
about where you started,
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how you grew up, where you
came from, that kind of thing.
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Well, well, I grew
up-- I wouldn't say much,
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you know, like
I was telling you,
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I don't look at my
childhood as a, you know,
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a childhood that really
stands out like from the normal.
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I will say that it was
kind of normal to me but,
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you know, at the
same time I will say it,
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you know, the
things that I go through,
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or went through, or the people
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that I was around
went through is not normal.
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So and I-- Was it--were there--
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like the picture you showed me,
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were there gang environment--
was it a gang environment?
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Were there people on
the street playing, running,
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and all that kind of
stuff when you grew up?
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I wouldn't say--
it was kind a like
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not so much as
Bloods and Crips but,
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you know, some type
of gang environment.
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Not so much
as... How was your mom?
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How was she
like? How was my mom?
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Well, my mom, she--
you know, she did her best.
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She raised four
boys by herself. And...
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Where was your dad? Just away.
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So, you know,
by her raising her,
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you know, us four
boys, she did her best
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and keeping us out of
whatever she had control
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over keeping us out
of. But, you know, how...
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So she really wanted to do right
by you guys? Right, she did.
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But there was too
much happening out there?
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Yeah, it was just
too much happening.
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So you know she did her best.
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She was trying to keep us away
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from the things
that were going around.
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But, you know, you
can only do so much
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as a single
parent trying to work
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and take care of the
family at the same time.
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I was surprised
that-- and I don't know
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where exactly you grew up in.
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but around this church,
like the guy with the card
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that I signed on
for his parole officer,
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when I took him home
there were some places
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where you could tell
this was a meth house
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or a drug house
and it's vacant now,
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nobody's there.
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And there were some
places that were really intense
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just driving him home.
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When you said that there
were not syndicated gangs
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around you, like Bloods
and Crips that kind of stuff,
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there were still
gangs around you?
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Yeah, it was gangs around me.
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I'll say more, I mean, it
was Bloods and Crips around
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but not like you will
see, you know, in California.
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This is Bloods and Crips--
it was more like territory gangs
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like, you know,
claiming streets sort of,
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blacks are certainly
like that. But, you know--
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It's funny 'cause
you've grown up there
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and you know what that
means when they claim an area.
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What does that mean for somebody
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that has never
heard that before?
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Okay, like for us,
you know, it was a street
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and it was kind of like
15, 10, 15 guys on one street.
00:10:02.89\00:10:07.29
So everybody on that
street were from that street
00:10:07.32\00:10:10.25
and then the
next street over there
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claimed that street and then--
00:10:12.41\00:10:13.78
So what happens
if somebody came over
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to your street,
like I come over?
00:10:15.21\00:10:16.58
You know, it was
like-- it was like the bla--
00:10:16.61\00:10:17.98
it was like the neighborhood
was one neighborhood
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and we had claimed--we
all claimed different streets
00:10:19.41\00:10:20.78
but we were one neighborhood.
00:10:20.81\00:10:22.18
So when we go to
school and then somebody
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was from another neighborhood
00:10:23.61\00:10:24.98
that's when it will be
like a confrontation. Right.
00:10:25.01\00:10:27.46
So it was like neighborhood
beefs or neighborhood
00:10:27.49\00:10:32.69
claiming neighborhoods and...
00:10:32.72\00:10:34.33
So from a single mom, try
to do the best she could-- Yes.
00:10:34.36\00:10:38.62
At what point did
you kind of get out there
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and start kind of
mixing with more gang stuff?
00:10:41.69\00:10:49.16
Well, when I was-- I
had to be about 14 or 15.
00:10:49.19\00:10:55.98
I was just coming in
high school and you know
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we were kind of
coming in ourselves
00:10:59.11\00:11:00.87
and trying to
find out who we were,
00:11:00.90\00:11:02.78
me and my twin
brother and...yeah,
00:11:02.81\00:11:07.19
that's the--that's
around the time that, you know,
00:11:07.22\00:11:09.50
we start seeing
different stuff and, you know,
00:11:09.53\00:11:11.82
people kind of mingling
with older people in the scene,
00:11:11.85\00:11:17.12
what they were doing in
their lives and, you know,
00:11:17.15\00:11:20.17
that's when it
was kind of a change--
00:11:20.20\00:11:22.57
Your brother and
sister are both here.
00:11:22.60\00:11:24.12
And I just want to
say hi to you guys.
00:11:24.15\00:11:25.87
But you know, when--
00:11:25.90\00:11:28.88
did your mom pass
during that time too? Yes--
00:11:28.91\00:11:31.85
'Cause I remember that you
said that, you know, your mom--
00:11:31.88\00:11:34.66
you guys were very close
and something happened with her.
00:11:34.69\00:11:37.52
Right. Yeah. We did-- I
did lose my mother. I was--
00:11:37.55\00:11:40.81
From what? What happened?
00:11:40.84\00:11:42.21
She had a heart attack. She--
we lost her from a heart attack.
00:11:42.24\00:11:46.69
And the thing was,
she wasn't really sick.
00:11:46.72\00:11:49.19
But it was kind of--
it happened on a humble.
00:11:49.22\00:11:53.41
And it was kind of a
surprise to the family,
00:11:53.44\00:11:57.94
for all of us because
at the time it wasn't her
00:11:57.97\00:12:01.20
that was sick, it
was my little brother.
00:12:01.23\00:12:02.97
And she was actually taking
care of my little brother,
00:12:03.00\00:12:04.73
you know, things
that she was doing
00:12:04.76\00:12:07.34
on a day-to-day basis,
taking care of all of us.
00:12:07.37\00:12:09.65
But, you know, he was actually
in a hospital and he was sick--
00:12:09.68\00:12:13.35
What was it?
What happened to him?
00:12:13.38\00:12:14.87
Some type of-- he
was in the hospital
00:12:14.90\00:12:17.43
for some type of infection.
00:12:17.46\00:12:18.95
Well, he didn't know
what was going on with that
00:12:18.98\00:12:21.84
but he had to stay in
the hospital for 7 days.
00:12:21.87\00:12:24.37
And actually on his
day of coming home--
00:12:24.40\00:12:27.21
he was supposed to
get released this day
00:12:27.24\00:12:28.97
and he was supposed
to come home, you know,
00:12:29.00\00:12:30.74
she had a massive heart
attack and we lost her that day.
00:12:30.77\00:12:34.65
And you were in
your early teens?
00:12:34.68\00:12:36.46
Yeah, I was 18 by this time.
00:12:36.49\00:12:38.46
Wow. Yeah, I was 18.
00:12:38.49\00:12:41.97
And so did things
get worse for you?
00:12:42.00\00:12:45.90
'Cause you had
said like in high school
00:12:45.93\00:12:47.41
I started playing in gangs,
00:12:47.44\00:12:48.81
I started doing all
that kind of stuff then--
00:12:48.84\00:12:51.76
I will say it did get worse.
00:12:51.79\00:12:53.47
Everything
came-- became real to me
00:12:53.50\00:12:56.01
at that time because, you know,
00:12:56.04\00:12:57.77
my mother did so
hard in taking care of us.
00:12:57.80\00:13:01.07
You know, it
was kind of like a--
00:13:01.10\00:13:02.85
she was kind of like
my refuge, my shelter.
00:13:02.88\00:13:05.62
So I was-- I would
actually tell myself
00:13:05.65\00:13:07.36
that I didn't ever
want to leave the house
00:13:07.39\00:13:08.98
or I didn't really want to
take on too much responsibility.
00:13:09.01\00:13:11.97
So when we lost
her it was kind of a--
00:13:12.00\00:13:15.38
reality hit so hard that
I will have to do something
00:13:15.41\00:13:18.53
in order to, you know,
take where she left off.
00:13:18.56\00:13:21.91
You know-- Right.
00:13:21.94\00:13:23.31
And so now, and I
think that's incredible
00:13:23.34\00:13:25.69
is that most
people do what they know.
00:13:25.72\00:13:28.55
Like I do what I know.
00:13:28.58\00:13:29.95
And so now
you're talking about--
00:13:29.98\00:13:32.30
you have to kind of support
yourself, raise yourself,
00:13:32.33\00:13:34.50
make sure that
everybody's taken care of.
00:13:34.53\00:13:36.77
And what were your
choices at that time?
00:13:36.80\00:13:38.61
And you know what I
want you to get into
00:13:38.64\00:13:40.58
'cause you and had
talked about this before,
00:13:40.61\00:13:43.47
is your addiction is
pretty interesting to me
00:13:43.50\00:13:47.09
in that you kind of got seduced
by the power of a lifestyle.
00:13:47.12\00:13:52.31
And so talk a little bit
about that kind of stuff,
00:13:52.34\00:13:57.69
taking care of your
family. Right. All right.
00:13:57.72\00:13:59.35
So when I lost my
mother, you know, I was forced.
00:13:59.38\00:14:01.93
I wouldn't say I was
forced but option was
00:14:01.96\00:14:04.53
kind of limited to
bring in money to, you know,
00:14:04.56\00:14:07.42
pay the bills and
take care of what I thought
00:14:07.45\00:14:11.83
I needed to take
care of at that time.
00:14:11.86\00:14:13.69
So, you know, all
around me was people
00:14:13.72\00:14:17.09
and lifestyle of selling drugs.
00:14:17.12\00:14:19.36
So I got into selling drugs.
00:14:19.39\00:14:21.40
And you talk a little
bit more about my addiction.
00:14:21.43\00:14:25.46
My addiction was not
necessarily the drugs,
00:14:25.49\00:14:28.59
but it was kind of the man
I became by selling the drugs.
00:14:28.62\00:14:32.73
I felt very powerful
and like the go-to guy,
00:14:32.76\00:14:37.69
and that's what I
got addicted to and--
00:14:37.72\00:14:40.48
It's a power addiction.
00:14:40.51\00:14:41.88
I mean, it's
like, you know, I was--
00:14:41.91\00:14:43.28
I'm really surprised
'cause I only got into dealing
00:14:43.31\00:14:45.46
for a few years when I
was out on the streets.
00:14:45.49\00:14:48.77
And it is amazing
when you walk in the room
00:14:48.80\00:14:50.93
and everybody gives
you that respect. Right.
00:14:50.96\00:14:53.36
Everybody pays attention.
And it is really seducing.
00:14:53.39\00:14:58.98
It's more seducing
than the drugs are.
00:14:59.01\00:15:00.90
Yeah, it is. It's very seducing
and it's very attractive.
00:15:00.93\00:15:04.34
You know, not even when--
even when--the cross over,
00:15:04.37\00:15:07.74
when I gave my life to Christ,
I was still attracted to that
00:15:07.77\00:15:11.78
but when I had to
leave that life alone I was--
00:15:11.81\00:15:16.68
my downfall was
power now, you know.
00:15:16.71\00:15:20.80
So I had to look into
myself like, who am I now?
00:15:20.83\00:15:23.46
So it was hard for me to--
at times it was hard for me to
00:15:23.49\00:15:28.23
actually, you
know, take on that life,
00:15:28.26\00:15:32.56
that new life in
Christ because, I'm like,
00:15:32.59\00:15:34.76
I'm nobody. You know, nobody--
00:15:34.79\00:15:36.16
And we talked
about when you're--
00:15:36.19\00:15:37.56
when all of sudden
you're standing there
00:15:37.59\00:15:38.96
in your own skin
without all of that
00:15:38.99\00:15:40.36
kind of stuff, who
am I? Right. Right.
00:15:40.39\00:15:41.76
And nobody like, I know
him or I know what he does and,
00:15:41.79\00:15:44.61
you know, it's no
respect and nothing like that.
00:15:44.64\00:15:46.64
I'm like--it's very
hard to be like, you know,
00:15:46.67\00:15:49.91
I'm just Han, I'm
just Johanahn, you know.
00:15:49.94\00:15:53.27
And I remember and I
can tell you something,
00:15:53.30\00:15:55.69
I was at the
church, I was at my church,
00:15:55.72\00:15:58.51
it was after I
gave my life to Christ
00:15:58.54\00:15:59.91
and you know I'm just--
00:15:59.94\00:16:01.60
I'm just feeling
like I'm a nobody,
00:16:01.63\00:16:04.57
I'm feeling like
I'm less of a man
00:16:04.60\00:16:06.60
because nobody gives me
that respect that I was used to
00:16:06.63\00:16:09.60
or nobody really
knows me, nobody puts me up
00:16:09.63\00:16:12.76
on the pedestal no
more so I'm just there.
00:16:12.79\00:16:15.43
And I remember one
day we was in the church
00:16:15.46\00:16:17.94
and it was a-- I
was at a prayer meeting,
00:16:17.97\00:16:20.82
and I was the only-- I
was the only male there.
00:16:20.85\00:16:23.54
I was the only man there.
00:16:23.57\00:16:24.94
And, you know, I'm still just,
00:16:24.97\00:16:26.34
you know, like
nobody care about me.
00:16:26.37\00:16:27.95
and there was this lady.
00:16:27.98\00:16:29.35
And I remember her
name was Sister Kollie.
00:16:29.38\00:16:33.20
And it was prayer time.
And I will never forget this.
00:16:33.23\00:16:37.60
I even told her
this to this day.
00:16:37.63\00:16:39.07
She said, she wanted somebody
to pray and she was like,
00:16:39.10\00:16:42.84
how about we have the
man pray for us? Amen.
00:16:42.87\00:16:46.83
And I was like--
I was like, what?
00:16:46.86\00:16:49.61
I'm like, "What? The man?"
00:16:49.64\00:16:51.64
'Cause I'm
looking like how did--
00:16:51.67\00:16:53.04
why does she think I'm a man?
00:16:53.07\00:16:54.55
You know, she don't
know, I haven't did anything,
00:16:54.58\00:16:58.01
you know what I'm saying?
00:16:58.04\00:16:59.41
So I even asked her like
why do you look at me like that?
00:16:59.44\00:17:03.42
How can you just
give me that respect?
00:17:03.45\00:17:05.17
And that's what I was used to.
00:17:05.20\00:17:06.57
I'm like, you know, I
felt that you have to earn
00:17:06.60\00:17:09.56
that type of
respect and that's what I--
00:17:09.59\00:17:11.63
that was my addiction
in doing what I had to do,
00:17:11.66\00:17:15.78
what I thought I had to
do to earn that respect.
00:17:15.81\00:17:18.02
And it was nothing but--
And this sister-in-Christ
00:17:18.05\00:17:20.12
have it to you as a sign of God.
00:17:20.15\00:17:21.61
And it was nothing but
God that had her do that.
00:17:21.64\00:17:25.09
And I'm like, I am a man without
00:17:25.12\00:17:27.29
all of this stuff
that I was used to.
00:17:27.32\00:17:29.30
I'm still a man.
Christ has made me a man.
00:17:29.33\00:17:31.49
What I love about
that is being able to say
00:17:31.52\00:17:34.37
is God has to really get
to your heart to give you
00:17:34.40\00:17:37.28
those kind of truths so
that you could heal. Right.
00:17:37.31\00:17:40.20
And it's really intense. It is.
00:17:40.23\00:17:41.70
'Cause once you-- let me--
00:17:41.73\00:17:43.46
I'm gonna go back into
that whole gang lifestyle.
00:17:43.49\00:17:46.43
'cause once you got in
that and you were that guy--
00:17:46.46\00:17:49.01
were you doing drugs on
top of that, or pretty much...
00:17:49.04\00:17:52.74
No, I was never into,
you know, doing the drugs,
00:17:52.77\00:17:55.71
just kind of selling
them, selling the drugs so.
00:17:55.74\00:17:59.22
So what happened as far
as you coming to Christ?
00:17:59.25\00:18:02.81
Tell us a little bit about--
00:18:02.84\00:18:05.07
well, tell us a
little bit first about--
00:18:05.10\00:18:06.82
I'm really am
curious about that lifestyle.
00:18:06.85\00:18:09.75
So tell us a little bit
more about that lifestyle
00:18:09.78\00:18:11.58
and then how you came
to Christ. What happened?
00:18:11.61\00:18:14.02
And was it one time,
or was it that people
00:18:14.05\00:18:16.77
were kind of--
was it over the years?
00:18:16.80\00:18:19.69
Oh, well, I was--
it was the lifestyle.
00:18:19.72\00:18:22.42
I took on a lifestyle,
and I didn't really want to--
00:18:22.45\00:18:25.73
like I said, when my mother pay,
you know, I was doing little--
00:18:25.76\00:18:28.91
I was dealing little petty
drugs before my mother passed.
00:18:28.94\00:18:31.28
But when she passed
I'm like I have to do this.
00:18:31.31\00:18:35.80
I was kind of
nervous in getting into--
00:18:35.83\00:18:39.23
deep into the drug game.
00:18:39.26\00:18:40.63
But I'm like I
have to make this rent,
00:18:40.66\00:18:43.27
I have to feed
my little brother,
00:18:43.30\00:18:45.55
you know, that's how I felt.
00:18:45.58\00:18:46.95
So when I gradually got
into it and I saw that reactions
00:18:46.98\00:18:52.55
or whatever from what I
was doing I started liking it.
00:18:52.58\00:18:57.89
Then I started loving it.
00:18:57.92\00:18:59.29
And then I
started doing more of it.
00:18:59.32\00:19:01.00
And then I started, you know,
and it started changing me.
00:19:01.03\00:19:04.47
so I was doing that for a while.
00:19:04.50\00:19:08.08
I look at it now, I
was becoming a monster.
00:19:08.11\00:19:13.25
You know, and I ask--
Because I'm like, you know,
00:19:13.28\00:19:16.99
it was just getting more
and more attractive to me
00:19:17.02\00:19:19.57
and I see the type of
person that I was becoming,
00:19:19.60\00:19:22.53
the people that I
was surrounded by,
00:19:22.56\00:19:24.00
it was attractive to them.
00:19:24.03\00:19:25.43
So, you know, I would
reach for that feeling
00:19:25.46\00:19:30.58
that to make you--to have
you look at me a certain way.
00:19:30.61\00:19:34.25
So that's what I was
striving for everyday.
00:19:34.28\00:19:35.65
And whether it's fear or
respect, it was something.
00:19:35.68\00:19:37.60
You were gonna
have some affect on me
00:19:37.63\00:19:40.86
to where I gave you
that position. Right.
00:19:40.89\00:19:42.77
And it was kind of like--
and it was back and forth.
00:19:42.80\00:19:45.39
So I was feeding off of you
and you was feeding off of me.
00:19:45.42\00:19:48.42
and I know you like it.
00:19:48.45\00:19:49.82
So I'm gonna
strive to be that guy.
00:19:49.85\00:19:51.22
So that's what I was becoming.
00:19:51.25\00:19:53.15
It was getting
worse and worse and worse.
00:19:53.18\00:19:57.34
Yeah, I was just--
like I said, I was just--
00:19:57.37\00:20:02.06
I believe I was just
growing into becoming a monster.
00:20:02.09\00:20:07.29
And that doesn't
happen overnight?
00:20:07.32\00:20:09.27
No, it does
happen-- the change or...
00:20:09.30\00:20:13.83
Yeah, the change
doesn't happen overnight.
00:20:13.86\00:20:15.29
When you said, I'm
beginning to be a monster,
00:20:15.32\00:20:18.00
is it some people
think that it happens
00:20:18.03\00:20:19.60
overnight but it doesn't.
00:20:19.63\00:20:21.10
And I love what you
said is that initially there
00:20:21.13\00:20:23.58
was that fear of
stepping all out into that.
00:20:23.61\00:20:26.47
Not that you hadn't
already in some way.
00:20:26.50\00:20:28.27
But there was that fear.
00:20:28.30\00:20:29.67
And that fear starts to leave
and you are able then to stand.
00:20:29.70\00:20:34.34
But you have to change
who you are to do that.
00:20:34.37\00:20:36.98
Yeah. So, yeah.
00:20:37.01\00:20:38.60
You know, then, 'cause
I think a lot of people
00:20:38.63\00:20:40.63
don't realize there's guns,
knives, there's crazy behaviors,
00:20:40.66\00:20:43.88
there's all of
that kind of stuff
00:20:43.91\00:20:45.54
up in that world. Right.
00:20:45.57\00:20:48.10
And it's like, you
know, the devil blinds you
00:20:48.13\00:20:50.40
from all of that
stuff because like I said,
00:20:50.43\00:20:53.88
I didn't really want to
put myself out there 100%
00:20:53.91\00:20:59.07
in a drug gang but,
you know, as you gradually
00:20:59.10\00:21:03.05
get into it the
devil gets to blind you
00:21:03.08\00:21:04.92
from the dangerous things
that I was putting myself into.
00:21:04.95\00:21:10.19
I was blinded by situations.
00:21:10.22\00:21:12.64
I'd go into a situation
and I'd just be blinded
00:21:12.67\00:21:17.10
by what can really happen to
me and am I supposed to be in...
00:21:17.13\00:21:21.93
Am I supposed to
be afraid right now?
00:21:21.96\00:21:23.33
Right, am I supposed
to be afraid and you know,
00:21:23.36\00:21:25.52
the devil has
that hold over you.
00:21:25.55\00:21:27.70
You don't even see
what's right and what's wrong.
00:21:27.73\00:21:30.07
'Cause you told me one
time when we were talking
00:21:30.10\00:21:31.86
that you even
pulled your brother into it
00:21:31.89\00:21:33.88
not even realizing-- Yeah.
00:21:33.91\00:21:36.19
And, you know, and
that's the way we was raised
00:21:36.22\00:21:38.48
and I'm like I look at
a lot and it was so hard
00:21:38.51\00:21:40.96
to pull him out of that
because you kind of like
00:21:40.99\00:21:45.90
drew him into it, you know.
00:21:45.93\00:21:47.83
And I was--
when I lost my mother
00:21:47.86\00:21:49.49
my little brother, he was 11.
00:21:49.52\00:21:51.63
So I felt like I'm gonna
raise him to be just like me.
00:21:51.66\00:21:57.85
And take care of himself. Right.
00:21:57.88\00:21:59.93
But I want him
to be a better me.
00:21:59.96\00:22:01.37
I want him to be a more improved
drug dealer or whatever.
00:22:01.40\00:22:06.48
So I was raising
him to be me at his age.
00:22:06.51\00:22:11.14
You know what I'm saying?
So whatever I would learn
00:22:11.17\00:22:14.43
at that time, I was teaching him
00:22:14.46\00:22:16.04
so he can be that far
ahead of anybody else there.
00:22:16.07\00:22:18.79
Well, you know, for
somebody that doesn't know
00:22:18.82\00:22:20.58
that lifestyle
'cause it was not--
00:22:20.61\00:22:23.98
like I pulled my sister into
the lifestyle that I was in.
00:22:24.01\00:22:26.91
When she left our
house and I was working
00:22:26.94\00:22:28.89
in clubs and all
that kind of stuff.
00:22:28.92\00:22:30.38
So I taught her what to do,
00:22:30.41\00:22:31.78
how to get a good job,
all that kind of stuff.
00:22:31.81\00:22:33.55
And I didn't do it
because I'm a monster.
00:22:33.58\00:22:35.56
I did it thinking I
did the right thing. Right.
00:22:35.59\00:22:37.75
And so I want you
to talk about that
00:22:37.78\00:22:39.15
'cause somebody would say
"Well, how could you do that?"
00:22:39.18\00:22:41.47
And it's like, you know,
00:22:41.50\00:22:42.87
you don't even know
when you're up in that.
00:22:42.90\00:22:45.00
When you are
thinking that I'm surviving.
00:22:45.03\00:22:46.94
That you know what, my
alternatives are a few,
00:22:46.97\00:22:49.78
and I have siblings,
I'm gonna teach them.
00:22:49.81\00:22:53.13
Yeah, when I--
00:22:53.16\00:22:54.94
only now I can look at
it and say I was a monster.
00:22:54.97\00:22:58.39
Then I didn't
know-- I didn't look at it
00:22:58.42\00:23:00.24
as I was doing
something wrong. Right.
00:23:00.27\00:23:02.42
I felt in my heart that I knew
I was doing something right.
00:23:02.45\00:23:05.55
So I'm like, I'm not gonna
have him go through the things
00:23:05.58\00:23:08.18
that I went through
and not knowing how to over
00:23:08.21\00:23:11.92
and you know, making easy money,
00:23:11.95\00:23:13.97
it's gonna be a lot
more easier for him.
00:23:14.00\00:23:16.05
So I thought I was paving a way.
00:23:16.08\00:23:18.21
I thought I was
doing a good thing.
00:23:18.24\00:23:20.00
he wouldn't have to
struggle as hard as I did.
00:23:20.03\00:23:22.43
So I really thought
that I was doing him
00:23:22.46\00:23:25.07
a pleasure by teaching him--
00:23:25.10\00:23:26.54
By teaching him
everything I know.
00:23:26.57\00:23:27.94
Yeah, I thought I
was doing him a pleasure.
00:23:27.97\00:23:29.34
And he learnt well.
Yeah, he learnt well.
00:23:29.37\00:23:32.90
What--was there anything
that God was doing at the time
00:23:32.93\00:23:36.19
where you felt that
God was pulling on you?
00:23:36.22\00:23:38.59
Or were there dark years
where I didn't feel that?
00:23:38.62\00:23:41.63
You know what, it was dark years
00:23:41.66\00:23:43.23
where I didn't feel
that but I always had--
00:23:43.26\00:23:46.15
it was something in me that--
00:23:46.18\00:23:50.45
it was just some
uncomfortable feeling at times
00:23:50.48\00:23:53.58
where I would say
something off the way
00:23:53.61\00:23:54.98
and somebody would
look at me like I was crazy.
00:23:55.01\00:23:56.51
And then I felt
like I must be crazy.
00:23:56.54\00:23:58.97
Like I remember riding
with my friends and I'm like--
00:23:59.00\00:24:03.66
'cause you know, my mother
didn't raise me like that.
00:24:03.69\00:24:06.18
You know what I'm saying?
So I just--after she left,
00:24:06.21\00:24:09.14
after she passed I just
grabbed on to something,
00:24:09.17\00:24:12.52
you know, what I kind of
knew everybody else was doing
00:24:12.55\00:24:15.86
and it was kind of easy.
00:24:15.89\00:24:17.26
So it was always something in
me like this just can't be it.
00:24:17.29\00:24:20.83
It was something telling
on me like this can't be it.
00:24:20.86\00:24:22.59
So if I say
something to my friends
00:24:22.62\00:24:24.17
like we got to change.
00:24:24.20\00:24:26.91
And they look at me crazy.
00:24:26.94\00:24:28.31
And I'm like,
yeah, maybe I am crazy.
00:24:28.34\00:24:29.71
Let me shut up. You
know what I'm saying?
00:24:29.74\00:24:31.11
And then I just
continue to do what I was--
00:24:31.14\00:24:32.51
But that was still that
part of your heart that said,
00:24:32.54\00:24:34.43
"You know what
this is not okay."
00:24:34.46\00:24:37.55
Right. Right. I
couldn't say that.
00:24:37.58\00:24:40.57
I couldn't come to-- I
wasn't string enough to say--
00:24:40.60\00:24:43.80
you know, to make
that change or to even--
00:24:43.83\00:24:46.32
I was strong enough
to say it a little bit.
00:24:46.35\00:24:47.95
But then when I
get tore down like
00:24:47.98\00:24:50.36
"Man, what you talking about?"
00:24:50.39\00:24:51.76
I just go right back
into where the devil had me.
00:24:51.79\00:24:56.51
We're gonna go ahead and
take a break and come back.
00:24:56.54\00:24:59.77
But I--you know to
me, I wish that as--
00:24:59.80\00:25:04.11
if you're out there and you're
coming from this lifestyle,
00:25:04.14\00:25:06.17
what I want to
say is God is amazing.
00:25:06.20\00:25:08.91
And he takes our craziest times
and just speaks into our lives.
00:25:08.94\00:25:13.70
And you are loved
and respected by God.
00:25:13.73\00:25:16.87
And he sees you
and all those things.
00:25:16.90\00:25:18.61
I want to say
that there is recovery
00:25:18.64\00:25:20.70
and we're gonna come
back and talk about that.
00:25:20.73\00:25:22.18
If you're out there
and you're a church member
00:25:22.21\00:25:23.80
and you have no idea
this kind of background
00:25:23.83\00:25:27.11
is I want you to pay
attention because we're coming
00:25:27.14\00:25:29.40
into the building
and we want to sit down
00:25:29.43\00:25:31.34
and we want to heal
and we want to be loved
00:25:31.37\00:25:33.83
and we want to say
to the whole world is,
00:25:33.86\00:25:36.18
I am done with this crazy stuff
and I want to be in my own skin.
00:25:36.21\00:25:40.71
And I want to
have a normal life.
00:25:40.74\00:25:43.04
And so we're gonna come back.
00:25:43.07\00:25:44.44
We're gonna hear
the rest of this story.
00:25:44.47\00:25:45.84
This is my favorite
part, is how God breaks
00:25:45.87\00:25:47.30
through all of that
stuff and at the end of that
00:25:47.33\00:25:50.93
you have a man of
god that somebody can say
00:25:50.96\00:25:53.04
at a prayer meeting, you
know, you take the prayer.
00:25:53.07\00:25:56.06
We'll be right back.
00:25:56.09\00:25:57.46