The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome to
"Celebrating Life in Recovery."
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My name is Cheri,
I'll be your host.
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And today,
we're gonna be talking
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about grandparents as parents.
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Did you know there
is a few million kids
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in the country being
raised by their grandparents?
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Come, join us.
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You know, we're
talking about unsung heroes.
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And I never even
thought about this issue
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that we're gonna cover
today except for one day,
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I'm online, I'm on Facebook.
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I'm on Facebook way too much.
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We should do a
whole program on that.
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But I'm on
Facebook and somebody says,
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"Have you ever-- have you ever
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thought about
recovering grandparents?"
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And the fact that
they are a lot of times
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raising their kid's
children for a various reasons.
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Sometimes it's drugs, alcohol,
sometimes it's just trauma,
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sometimes it's an
accident, mental health.
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There could be a lot
of different reasons.
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But I thought you
know what? I haven't.
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And I don't think we've
ever done a program like that.
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So I just put a
feeler out and said,
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do you think anybody
would be interested in this?
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And I put it on there.
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And I can't even tell
you from all over the world,
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I had
grandparents contacting me.
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But almost with the
sense of thank you so much,
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you even recognize that
'cause I think sometimes
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we just need to say,
when--does anybody see me?
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You know, I'm working
hard, does anybody see me?
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So this program is a
program about grandparents.
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And if you're out
there, man, we see you.
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And so I wanna
introduce you, Pamela.
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You are from-- from
Saint Louis, Missouri.
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And the organization is--
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"The Grandparents As
Parents Support Project."
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Called GAP. GAP
as what we call it.
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So when I put that
feeler out on Facebook,
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somebody said, "Have
you ever heard of GAP?"
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And I thought I never have.
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And so I realized that
you guys are everywhere.
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And I want you
to talk about that.
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But the first thing
I do is I think okay,
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if we're gonna do a program
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we're getting
close to the airtime,
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so can I find
anybody close to the studio?
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And I called you and I loved you
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from the minute
you answered the phone.
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It was delightful.
So tell us who you are?
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And then we'll
get into the program.
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'Cause, you know, I
want to know who you are
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and why you started this or
why you're involved in this?
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Okay. Well, I'm Pamela Talley.
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I'm an Advanced Practiced Nurse.
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And in the 1980s-- well start.
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I was born and raised
in the city of Saint Louis.
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And the oldest girl
of seven children, and--
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Big family. Big family.
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Parents divorced,
and mom had to work.
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So, you know, I had to do
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a lot of the
caretaking of my siblings.
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I was a teen
parent as well at 16.
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And, but continue to go
to school and college and--
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You know, when you talk
about that is that that,
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you know, you raised your
kids and you were in that role
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for you to be a parent,
that's all you really ever knew.
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That's all I ever knew.
Yeah, I'm a good parent.
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Right, right. So
that was nothing unusual.
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But after college-- after
completing nursing school,
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I just--I worked in a
hospital for a little while,
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but I was so perplexed by
the number of young people
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who was addicted to drugs
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and coming in for medical
care or due to accidents.
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And so I just thought, you know,
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"Hey, I have to
try to figure this out.
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There is--there has
to be some prevention."
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"And some way to
stop some of this."
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And so I did look at
getting a job in community,
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which I was very lucky
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to land a job at
United Methodist Agency.
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And started
working with kids who were
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from a
low-income housing complex
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and there was gangs and
drugs and all kinds of things.
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So, you know, what I
want-- I want you to do for us.
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'Cause a lot of the viewers know
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that I was
homeless fairly young,
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so that's streets kind of
abusiveness if I understand,
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but some of us don't
understand that at all.
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So cover that
for us a little bit.
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And then, you know,
you have a community
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where if you didn't get
involved in these things
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that would be unusual 'cause
that's what's offer to you.
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There is no options
when people say, no.
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They say--when
people say to say, no,
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then what do you say, yes to?
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There is nothing
there much to say, yes to.
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And we are such a being.
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So for many other
kids, they had no choice.
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And so the
dynamics of what happens
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and community has to
change in order for communities
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and families to be healthy.
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And what's--what's
amazing to me about your journey
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is that you saw
that even in school
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is that somebody has to
step in and do something.
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Because these kids
are going to be so lost.
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Absolutely. So early on,
at the Social Service Agency,
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we started offering in
AA, and they were open groups.
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We actually brought
them into the community
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and ask them to
hold step meetings
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and whatever
meetings they could there,
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so that these families
could start to get better.
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Okay, and so and I love.
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I love the fact you used
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whatever you thought
the draw would be. Right.
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Because it wasn't so much
the meeting that was magic.
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It's that they
start you needed people
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to get in a
healthy community. Exactly.
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And I don't care
what the draw is.
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And just for
anybody that's looking out.
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You know, if they
can do anything to help,
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it's whatever the draw is.
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If you need to do a
program for daycare, do that.
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If you need to NA, do that.
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You need to do divorce
recovery classes, do that.
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But whatever the draw is
'cause what you want is actually
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just form that
community again. Exactly.
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To--had to begin to rebuild
it and it's so very interesting
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that the AA and
NA and the community
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overwhelmingly
were-- they were seniors.
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I mean, I was
absolutely shocked at that.
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I mean, yeah, I
was shocked at that.
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I was shocked at that.
And, but they were seniors.
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And trying to stay clean
and sober on a daily basis.
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But also because I worked
with youth in that community,
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there were a number of youth
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who had a single parent
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and that parent was
on alcohol or drugs.
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And so I spent a lot
of time connecting kids
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who needed safe,
healthy environments
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and were just
sick and tired actually
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with a family member who did
not have an addiction problem
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and could take
care of those kids.
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And so I was-- I had--
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I was transporting
kids. You kind of scanned.
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But you scanned the family
too that's who's clean here.
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Actually, right.
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Well, I would--I would have
that conversation with the kids.
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So who in your
family can take care of you?
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Who in your family can
we give Christmas dinner to
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and you have dinner? Yeah.
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They actually cook it.
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They will cook it
and you all can sit down
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and have dinner together. Right.
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Who in your family
can we give gifts to
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where you're off for Christmas
and you all actually get it
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and they're not
selling them in community?
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So those kinds of conversations.
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So when the kids
would say, uncle so and so
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or aunt so and so
or grandma or grandpa
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then those would be
the family members that,
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you know, with an intervention
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we would call
those family members up.
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Sometimes into those
things, but eventually ended up
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getting those kids placed
with those family members.
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I spend a lot
of time doing that.
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And then actually working
on helping those parent--
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those grandparents
or aunts and uncles
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to help take care of those kids.
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So all over the place.
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And so even when I left
that particular agency and--
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But you know what?
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I got to say
about that agency to me
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'cause I'm thinking of
what all of the material you--
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all of the stuff
you must've learned
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by looking at
the family dynamics
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and how to kind of
make this healthy again.
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That it was you
needed that. Yeah.
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Oh, so put the-- Right.
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To put those pieces
together and understand
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that there was not
an infrastructure--
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in place to help
families be healthy. Right.
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And that is some of what
through the grandparent project,
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we really hope to recreate.
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So you ended up
leaving that agency?
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And going to another
agency. Doing the same thing.
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And still looking
at working with youth.
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We're finding out that you had
to work with the whole family.
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Well, I started
doing that at--I actually
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when I went to the next agency
I focused more on the adult.
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Helping them to
take care of the youth,
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the parenting
peace. That's right.
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Because a
kingdom house and that's
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that was the
United Methodist Agency,
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I worked a lot on helping
kids to be self-sufficient.
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In many ways, you know,
and helping them to learn
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to cope and take
care of themselves.
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If you're gonna raise
yourself, here's how you do it.
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This is how you do it.
This is what you have to do.
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You know exactly.
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Some people just
hate the fact, like,
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one time I met this kid
out of Alaska, 12 years old.
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And I'm teaching her
how to keep herself safe.
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And they're
saying, "Well, you know,
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shouldn't you be
getting her in the safe place?
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Well, look around her."
There is not a safe place.
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So somebody just
has to teach her,
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this is a reality, and so
that's what you were doing.
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Exactly. And that was a reality.
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You have to teach
them that they're living
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in these households,
they need an alarm clock,
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you know, so they can get up
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and still go to
school, somebody needs to cook.
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We had people to teach classes
on how to just cook right out
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at the food pantry
based on what you get.
00:10:38.34\00:10:41.30
You know, who is there
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to support you
and be there for you.
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You know, so-- Build some.
00:10:45.45\00:10:46.86
Yeah, help to
build some of those
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resiliency skills in those kids.
00:10:48.46\00:10:50.66
Because some kids will
say, but it's not fair.
00:10:50.69\00:10:52.61
Okay, now let's get
pass that. It is not.
00:10:52.64\00:10:54.65
'Cause it's just
the way it is. It is.
00:10:54.68\00:10:57.36
And yeah, you know, we
really don't want to say that,
00:10:57.39\00:11:00.13
but for some kids it's
a blessing to say that.
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It's not fair, but
this is what you need to do.
00:11:02.45\00:11:05.54
Exactly, and
frequently you hear kids say,
00:11:05.57\00:11:08.44
it's not fair or you know,
they--you know, they lie, they--
00:11:08.47\00:11:13.19
you know, they have all
these issues with adult,
00:11:13.22\00:11:16.04
but if they get stuck
there they'll have real issues.
00:11:16.07\00:11:19.71
Okay, you're
right. You know, they do.
00:11:19.74\00:11:22.94
Okay, they
are-- They're addicts.
00:11:22.97\00:11:25.69
They are
addicts, what can we do?
00:11:25.72\00:11:28.74
You know, and I would always
have that conversation with kids
00:11:28.77\00:11:31.85
about that elephant
in their living room.
00:11:31.88\00:11:34.06
Especially when our new kids
were living in those families
00:11:34.09\00:11:36.92
and they were being neglected
and really needed some help.
00:11:36.95\00:11:41.53
So we're gonna
see this elephant.
00:11:41.56\00:11:44.78
You know, we're not
gonna-- we're not gonna say,
00:11:44.81\00:11:47.75
there's not an
elephant in the living room.
00:11:47.78\00:11:50.27
It's really
big. It's taken over.
00:11:50.30\00:11:52.40
So what are we
gonna do about that?
00:11:52.43\00:11:54.37
Well, you can't change that,
00:11:54.40\00:11:56.29
but you don't have to
stay in that situation.
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You know, you're not
gonna change your mom, you know.
00:11:59.36\00:12:02.24
And so, yeah,
that's how that the journey
00:12:02.27\00:12:06.29
with grandparents raising their
grandchildren started for me.
00:12:06.32\00:12:10.30
So you ended up from that agency
that did a morphine to the--
00:12:10.33\00:12:14.86
Actually, went
to the next agency
00:12:14.89\00:12:17.09
and ended up working with
girls who were in gangs a bit.
00:12:17.12\00:12:23.68
And again many of
these had a single parent
00:12:23.71\00:12:26.97
and to get part of that
was to protect themselves
00:12:27.00\00:12:31.38
from those things and community
00:12:31.41\00:12:33.54
just to move from one area
to another area in community.
00:12:33.57\00:12:38.18
And I wish, I wish
that someone could sit down
00:12:38.21\00:12:42.93
with some of these
girls and they will tell you.
00:12:42.96\00:12:45.21
You know what?
00:12:45.24\00:12:46.61
There was a point
in my life where nobody
00:12:46.64\00:12:48.01
was gonna hurt me again
00:12:48.04\00:12:49.41
or you were not
gonna get in my face again.
00:12:49.44\00:12:51.01
And some of them are very young
00:12:51.04\00:12:52.41
when they decide that
and they can get vicious.
00:12:52.44\00:12:55.66
But their viciousness is
this response to, you know,
00:12:55.69\00:12:58.60
I'm done. Right.
00:12:58.63\00:13:00.00
I'm just done with being afraid.
00:13:00.03\00:13:01.74
I'm done with having
someone control me in that way.
00:13:01.77\00:13:04.99
And most of the time
even with gang members,
00:13:05.02\00:13:07.27
as you get underneath all that
00:13:07.30\00:13:08.68
and you just see
this little girl.
00:13:08.71\00:13:10.60
It's a little
girl. It's a little girl.
00:13:10.63\00:13:12.54
So they ran in a gang
that became their family.
00:13:12.57\00:13:15.81
And again to help
build in some of the skills
00:13:15.84\00:13:18.41
that they needed to
again survive and cope.
00:13:18.44\00:13:22.76
And but we--I also
noticed that they were
00:13:22.79\00:13:25.80
a huge number of grandparents
in that neighborhood
00:13:25.83\00:13:29.95
who was raising grandchildren.
00:13:29.98\00:13:33.03
And I was actually
doing my graduate study
00:13:33.06\00:13:36.43
at that point and
decided to, you know,
00:13:36.46\00:13:40.75
may be I need to see just
how many of these families
00:13:40.78\00:13:46.05
are on our caseload,
what we can do to help.
00:13:46.08\00:13:50.22
Because the structure
is gonna be different.
00:13:50.25\00:13:52.49
What they need is different.
00:13:52.52\00:13:54.49
What they need was
absolutely different
00:13:54.52\00:13:57.39
from what families needed.
00:13:57.42\00:13:59.47
And I think we started
00:13:59.50\00:14:02.51
with about two
dozen grandparent families
00:14:02.54\00:14:05.99
and over a hundred
and something kids,
00:14:06.02\00:14:08.35
these families
were taking care of.
00:14:08.38\00:14:11.23
And I mean, I say
some of the poorest people
00:14:11.26\00:14:16.72
in the world, you know, and--
00:14:16.75\00:14:19.78
And having a poor
from even retirement for,
00:14:19.81\00:14:22.91
you know, for a different--
They're getting small
00:14:22.94\00:14:26.91
incomes, another
raising kids and--
00:14:26.94\00:14:28.96
On the small incomes because
the number of these women
00:14:28.99\00:14:31.92
were 60, 70, 80
maybe have been domestics.
00:14:31.95\00:14:36.86
And so they had
very little money.
00:14:36.89\00:14:39.94
There were some
husbands and wives,
00:14:39.97\00:14:41.54
but they were mostly
older women who were raising--
00:14:41.57\00:14:45.23
raising kids on
very little money
00:14:45.26\00:14:47.47
and spend a lot of their time
00:14:47.50\00:14:49.87
and energy
going to food pantries
00:14:49.90\00:14:54.56
and thrift stores just surviving
on a whole another level
00:14:54.59\00:15:00.53
that we don't even think about.
00:15:00.56\00:15:02.89
And they--you know,
what I'd like you to talk
00:15:02.92\00:15:04.65
about you to is that
sense of what I noticed
00:15:04.68\00:15:07.48
with some
grandparents raising parents.
00:15:07.51\00:15:10.04
There's that
sense of shame because
00:15:10.07\00:15:11.44
they don't want to
talk about the situation
00:15:11.47\00:15:13.17
and why they're raising
their grandkids at times.
00:15:13.20\00:15:16.30
And so they kind of
just are plain it off
00:15:16.33\00:15:18.85
and hiding a lot of stuff.
00:15:18.88\00:15:22.17
They hide a lot of stuff.
00:15:22.20\00:15:25.64
Actually when we
began to do the research on,
00:15:25.67\00:15:32.03
who these families were
and what their needs were?
00:15:32.06\00:15:35.98
Many of these
grandparents, we asked them,
00:15:36.01\00:15:40.61
what do you go
for help or services?
00:15:40.64\00:15:44.28
And they would say
what food pantries,
00:15:44.31\00:15:47.69
what church places or whatever,
00:15:47.72\00:15:52.16
but when we ask
the service providers
00:15:52.19\00:15:55.22
or those
organizations, they didn't know
00:15:55.25\00:15:58.55
that many of these people
were even raising children.
00:15:58.58\00:16:03.25
Wow. You know.
00:16:03.28\00:16:04.65
'Cause that's so
you just hide all that.
00:16:04.68\00:16:06.37
They are absolutely hiding it.
00:16:06.40\00:16:09.42
And again, so it's
a very complex issue.
00:16:09.45\00:16:13.13
Some of it, it
is their own denial,
00:16:13.16\00:16:16.56
but I think for
many of the grandparents
00:16:16.59\00:16:18.72
it's their wish for the
child, the parent of these kids
00:16:18.75\00:16:22.84
to get their self
together, whatever that means.
00:16:22.87\00:16:25.83
If they're on drugs,
get yourself together
00:16:25.86\00:16:28.70
get off the drugs, okay.
00:16:28.73\00:16:31.98
So for many of them,
it's only those where
00:16:32.01\00:16:36.48
perhaps the child
is died or he's dead
00:16:36.51\00:16:39.83
that the grandparents have
been a little more forthcoming.
00:16:39.86\00:16:43.02
But even for
children, parents of children
00:16:43.05\00:16:47.57
who are incarcerated.
00:16:47.60\00:16:49.66
I think that has been
00:16:49.69\00:16:51.06
the toughest
group of grandparents.
00:16:51.09\00:16:54.81
The shame is so--so--
00:16:54.84\00:16:58.11
Do we--the shame is
up that--And, you know,
00:16:58.14\00:17:01.36
for some reason I never
even thought about that,
00:17:01.39\00:17:03.66
but I know like in California,
00:17:03.69\00:17:06.58
the top industry
is a prison industry
00:17:06.61\00:17:08.46
and I never thought
about until you just said
00:17:08.49\00:17:10.90
that is all of those
children are somewhere.
00:17:10.93\00:17:14.26
A lot of with
grandparents, foster place
00:17:14.29\00:17:16.61
and all kind of
stuff, and so even the shame
00:17:16.64\00:17:18.89
of that would be
very intense. Yes.
00:17:18.92\00:17:22.23
And when somebody
tells me that they're raising
00:17:22.26\00:17:25.01
their grandkids because
their kids are in prison.
00:17:25.04\00:17:28.28
That that instant look on
my face is then another thing.
00:17:28.31\00:17:31.96
They're either gonna
come out or hide. Yes.
00:17:31.99\00:17:34.05
By the look on our face
when they share with us.
00:17:34.08\00:17:36.09
Right, right, right.
00:17:36.12\00:17:37.49
So the--when we initially
started the support group,
00:17:37.52\00:17:41.38
we looked at where the folks
were going to get the help.
00:17:41.41\00:17:45.66
They need--and
what help they needed.
00:17:45.69\00:17:47.17
So the agency where I worked,
00:17:47.20\00:17:50.46
we began to try to provide
those things for grandparents.
00:17:50.49\00:17:54.68
So they wouldn't have
to spend days of the week
00:17:54.71\00:17:58.01
running all over the area
from one food pantry to another.
00:17:58.04\00:18:02.53
And, you know, and
some of those people
00:18:02.56\00:18:06.43
were again elders and just
needed more help and support.
00:18:06.46\00:18:11.53
We have found that
time and time again.
00:18:11.56\00:18:15.93
A support group is
good, but if you have someone
00:18:15.96\00:18:18.88
who is 60 or 70
and they have to have
00:18:18.91\00:18:22.23
childcare to do a support group.
00:18:22.26\00:18:26.35
I mean, that is just, you know,
something we don't think about,
00:18:26.38\00:18:30.70
but that something that we did.
00:18:30.73\00:18:33.05
We also when we did the group
provided nutritional snacks,
00:18:33.08\00:18:39.28
fruit and juices
because again they're spending
00:18:39.31\00:18:42.90
so much of their
money on just surviving.
00:18:42.93\00:18:47.75
And, you know, so the issues
are really, really complex.
00:18:47.78\00:18:52.50
So grandparents as parents,
you know, the GAP program,
00:18:52.53\00:18:56.11
I was surprised that they were--
00:18:56.14\00:18:57.84
you guys are on a number
of states, and number of--
00:18:57.87\00:19:01.36
Well, actually
there are number of groups
00:19:01.39\00:19:03.32
that have grown
because the numbers have grown.
00:19:03.35\00:19:06.45
We are not per say yes.
00:19:06.48\00:19:08.53
Even though Robert Woods Johnson
00:19:08.56\00:19:10.47
supported our
group in Saint Louis--
00:19:10.50\00:19:13.04
it's a foundation supported
the group in Saint Louis
00:19:13.07\00:19:16.36
to do the basic
research because at that point
00:19:16.39\00:19:19.27
people hadn't really looked at
all the really--the real issues
00:19:19.30\00:19:24.13
of what grandparents
actually say they need,
00:19:24.16\00:19:27.69
and what their
service provider say they need
00:19:27.72\00:19:30.29
which an even with
that with such a mismatch.
00:19:30.32\00:19:33.39
You know, I said that
they needed resource--
00:19:33.42\00:19:36.96
they needed more finances
because I've had colleagues
00:19:36.99\00:19:41.43
who were
definitely middle class.
00:19:41.46\00:19:45.42
And, but if you have to
take 3 or 4 grandchildren,
00:19:45.45\00:19:49.98
you know, and
it's-- in a crisis suddenly
00:19:50.01\00:19:53.99
and they may come with nothing,
00:19:54.02\00:19:56.16
you know, your whole
situation changes immediately.
00:19:56.19\00:19:59.17
And sometimes not only
they may come with nothing,
00:19:59.20\00:20:03.42
but they may also
have emotional issues
00:20:03.45\00:20:06.22
that you're
gonna have to address,
00:20:06.25\00:20:07.76
so these kids have been damaged
00:20:07.79\00:20:09.56
not because
somebody's mean or whatever
00:20:09.59\00:20:11.92
just
circumstances and just whatever.
00:20:11.95\00:20:14.64
And now they
come with all of that.
00:20:14.67\00:20:16.25
Well, many of these
and that is the other thing
00:20:16.28\00:20:19.04
that people just
don't really understand.
00:20:19.07\00:20:22.33
Most of the
grandparents are taking care
00:20:22.36\00:20:24.33
of these grandchildren because
00:20:24.36\00:20:26.98
there has been a
crisis or there is a crisis.
00:20:27.01\00:20:30.71
And so the kids have a
lot of trauma histories.
00:20:30.74\00:20:35.26
And when
grandparents step up and say,
00:20:35.29\00:20:38.67
"Yes, we're gonna
take-- I'll take grandkids."
00:20:38.70\00:20:42.23
They don't often realize
the amount of may be abuse,
00:20:42.26\00:20:46.40
neglect or trauma
that the child has suffered
00:20:46.43\00:20:50.52
prior to coming
to them. Exactly.
00:20:50.55\00:20:52.58
And what they're
going to actually need.
00:20:52.61\00:20:55.62
And so, you know, we have
talked about that, you know,
00:20:55.65\00:21:00.71
the funding
needs of grandparents
00:21:00.74\00:21:02.41
when they're
raising their grandchildren.
00:21:02.44\00:21:04.27
If I was a single
mother, I could go and get help,
00:21:04.30\00:21:09.34
but a grandparent-- Cannot.
00:21:09.37\00:21:11.27
Oh, I hate that. I knew
you were gonna say that.
00:21:11.30\00:21:13.16
Cannot. We cannot.
00:21:13.19\00:21:14.56
Cannot, cannot, cannot.
00:21:14.59\00:21:17.10
You would have to have--
have a grandmother right now
00:21:17.13\00:21:21.31
whose daughter
is on heroin. Yeah.
00:21:21.34\00:21:23.57
And she has this
daughter walked away
00:21:23.60\00:21:27.16
early part of December and
left this 4 month old with her.
00:21:27.19\00:21:31.01
And because the grandmother--
00:21:31.04\00:21:32.87
now she is taking
the kid to the doctor.
00:21:32.90\00:21:34.86
So she is
building a paper trail,
00:21:34.89\00:21:37.77
but right now the daughter
continues to get the support.
00:21:37.80\00:21:41.40
And when the grandmother
went to the family services,
00:21:41.43\00:21:45.93
they said, "We haven't
heard from your daughter.
00:21:45.96\00:21:48.20
We don't know that she
doesn't have the child."
00:21:48.23\00:21:50.28
She is like, "But I have
the child right here, you know."
00:21:50.31\00:21:54.23
So until she can
build a case to say
00:21:54.26\00:21:59.24
that she actually is
taking care of the child,
00:21:59.27\00:22:02.59
then she can't
even get food stamps
00:22:02.62\00:22:05.05
or wake or just some of those
00:22:05.08\00:22:07.15
basic things to
take care of the kid,
00:22:07.18\00:22:09.69
and so when the
grandmother contacted us.
00:22:09.72\00:22:12.89
You know, I didn't very--
has suggest that they call us.
00:22:12.92\00:22:14.86
And she was just looking
for a baby bed for the child.
00:22:14.89\00:22:19.65
You know, she's
like, "I have nothing."
00:22:19.68\00:22:21.96
And my daughter has--and
I-- why do they let this happen?
00:22:21.99\00:22:24.74
I have the child,
but it's what happened.
00:22:24.77\00:22:27.02
It is what happened.
00:22:27.05\00:22:28.42
And so one of the
things that it sounds like
00:22:28.45\00:22:32.19
that you're advocating is--
00:22:32.22\00:22:34.28
there's got to
be a change in that.
00:22:34.31\00:22:36.62
You know, 'cause it
sounds like, you know,
00:22:36.65\00:22:38.21
a family is
really do kind of gather
00:22:38.24\00:22:40.07
and then tried to do the best
00:22:40.10\00:22:41.47
they can when
something falls out,
00:22:41.50\00:22:43.81
like, drugs,
alcohol or crisis like that.
00:22:43.84\00:22:46.64
But, you know, there's got to be
00:22:46.67\00:22:48.04
some recognition
or help beyond that.
00:22:48.07\00:22:50.84
Exactly, and what
happens in families
00:22:50.87\00:22:53.05
by the time an addict,
00:22:53.08\00:22:55.32
you know, an addict
burns so many bridges.
00:22:55.35\00:22:58.11
Oh, it's horrible.
00:22:58.14\00:22:59.51
And so this
mother has other children
00:22:59.54\00:23:02.85
who are all grown and
taking care of their kids.
00:23:02.88\00:23:05.97
And so what--this grandmother
reminded me yesterday
00:23:06.00\00:23:11.14
is that I just shared with her
that what happens a lot of times
00:23:11.17\00:23:16.58
is the kids don't
think that she should be
00:23:16.61\00:23:19.55
taking care of
this grandbaby. Right.
00:23:19.58\00:23:22.08
And they want--they
want the baby to be safe.
00:23:22.11\00:23:24.81
But they don't want
their mother sacrificing--
00:23:24.84\00:23:27.92
Her life. Her life.
00:23:27.95\00:23:29.34
This is her
time. This is her time.
00:23:29.37\00:23:31.77
She should be
enjoying her life and doing--
00:23:31.80\00:23:34.88
And I get that, but
there is a part of me
00:23:34.91\00:23:37.43
that they really gets
that grandmother's heart
00:23:37.46\00:23:40.04
that says, but
if I don't do this,
00:23:40.07\00:23:42.62
this child will end
up in foster care or,
00:23:42.65\00:23:45.72
you know, from drug
house to drug house.
00:23:45.75\00:23:47.52
And that's what grandparents do.
00:23:47.55\00:23:49.98
And so, but
because they sometimes
00:23:50.01\00:23:52.48
make those hard
choices which for them
00:23:52.51\00:23:56.54
and everyone that
I've ever interviewed said,
00:23:56.57\00:23:59.46
it was never a
hard choice for them.
00:23:59.49\00:24:02.24
It is--why? This
is my grandchild.
00:24:02.27\00:24:04.04
And they just do it,
other people sometimes
00:24:04.07\00:24:07.08
make a choice not to
support the grandparent
00:24:07.11\00:24:10.66
and the grandbaby or
grandchildren because,
00:24:10.69\00:24:15.22
you know, they feel if she
just would let the child go
00:24:15.25\00:24:18.09
then the mother will get
herself together, you know.
00:24:18.12\00:24:23.16
So the dyna--family
dynamics are just very complex.
00:24:23.19\00:24:28.03
You know, Pamela,
I just want to say
00:24:28.06\00:24:29.83
I'm gonna-- we're
gonna take a break.
00:24:29.86\00:24:32.09
I'm gonna
introduce other group to
00:24:32.12\00:24:35.48
a grandparent that
you brought with you.
00:24:35.51\00:24:38.70
And I just want to say
that we're gonna meet her
00:24:38.73\00:24:41.61
and then I'm gonna
bring you back because
00:24:41.64\00:24:43.71
I really want to hear a
little bit more about GAP.
00:24:43.74\00:24:46.83
I want you to tell
us, what do you think
00:24:46.86\00:24:48.66
that we need to
know as a community,
00:24:48.69\00:24:50.97
not only a
community in the cafe,
00:24:51.00\00:24:52.69
but all our viewers?
00:24:52.72\00:24:54.95
What do we need to know?
00:24:54.98\00:24:56.35
And I want to
just say God bless you
00:24:56.38\00:24:58.68
for the work that you do.
00:24:58.71\00:25:00.08
'Cause I know that it is
a group that needs a voice.
00:25:00.11\00:25:03.62
They need a voice.
And I say God bless them.
00:25:03.65\00:25:05.67
There are the angels on earth.
They're truly the unsung heroes.
00:25:05.70\00:25:09.98
We're gonna be right back.
00:25:10.01\00:25:11.38
I want to introduce
you to a grandparent
00:25:11.41\00:25:12.78
that is in the middle
of all that right now,
00:25:12.81\00:25:14.52
and some people that were
raised by their grandparents.
00:25:14.55\00:25:16.82
So stay with us.
00:25:16.85\00:25:18.22