The following program
discusses sensitive issues,
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related to addictive behavior.
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Parents are
cautioned that some material
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may be too candid
for younger children.
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Welcome back.
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And today, we're gonna be
talking about forgiveness.
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And what's amazing
to me about recovery
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is that at first,
we step into recovery.
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We're trying to do
with all our own stuff.
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We're looking at maybe drugs,
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maybe
relationships, all of that junk.
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And I don't know about you,
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but I was
incredibly self-focused.
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I thought that I
was just the worst.
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I'm such a mess. I
have all of these issues.
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And then, once I
started to actually
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kind of allow God
to get me in a place
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where I was stronger
and I'm less self-focused
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and I'm looking at issues
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and I'm kind of learning
things that I need to learn.
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I started to look at my spouse.
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What was he, a mess?
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And I'll introduce
him to you right now.
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But you know what
it's-- Brad, I want to say,
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this is our 100th program.
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It just worked out that
you were on the program.
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And I just want
to say, I love you
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and I'm so glad you're here.
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But you know what
I'm saying, as far as,
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you know, for a longtime
I looked at my own issues.
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And then all of a sudden,
I started to look in at yours
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and thought may be,
he's got one or two.
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Yeah, just maybe. Yeah.
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And I just got to say,
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I'm so excited
to be here with you.
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I'm so proud of you
and I love you so much.
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How cool are you? A
hundred shows, amazing.
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Just amazing. I know.
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That is amazing. Who
would have thought it?
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But God did. Yeah, yeah.
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God thought it.
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But getting to back,
what we're gonna talk about
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today which is
forgiveness at some point.
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But it was real interesting
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and we've talked
about this a little bit.
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I think this is the
third program I've done.
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And in the first one, I
kind of talk a little bit
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about just figuring
out a little bit who I was,
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in terms of what God thought,
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what God intended for me?
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Your whole journey.
Kind of my whole journey.
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And that was like, you know,
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the first little
step down the path.
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Last year, one of the things
that we covered was anger.
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And I think,
there's some things,
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you almost may have
to clear out of the way,
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before you can
take that next step.
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And if you're angry all the time
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and really mad at
everyone all the time.
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It's pretty hard
to forgive people.
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You know, so what
are you going to say.
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Yeah, yeah, I'm good with that.
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You know, when you're really
probably not sincere at all.
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Right, but you
know when we first time,
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I think that when we
first got to together, I was--
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there were so many
issues that I had to look at.
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That we didn't look
at yours at all. Exactly.
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And then, what I
thought was amazing,
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as we decided at one
point and it was so funny,
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we decided that we're gonna
work together at one point.
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And I thought, you know,
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we're gonna work
together and live together.
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And he's gonna step
away from the university job.
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And Brad's plays
in the Philharmonic
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and works for the university.
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He's gonna step away.
And we're gonna do ministry.
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And I thought, you
know, I don't know.
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I think if you're gonna do that,
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you need some counseling.
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And that was
the start of it, eh?
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Yeah, oh, absolutely, you know,
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and I'm going counseling.
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You know, you're the one
with all the issues. Yeah.
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You know, I came from this
middleclass American family and,
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you know, we went camping
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and I was a boy
scout and all that stuff.
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Dad served an
ambassadorship to Bangladesh.
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I mean, my
friends are drug addicts.
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I mean it really
is a whole different,
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you know, it
couldn't be more extreme.
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We really come from
different backgrounds,
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but because I love you so much
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and was committed and
really did believe that
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God was calling me into this.
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We agreed.
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And I went to about
three sessions by myself
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and then you joined me.
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Because I'd never
done anything like that
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before after first she was like,
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how was the guy and I'm like,
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I've no idea for what's
good or bad or sideways.
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I wouldn't have a clue.
I'd no point in reference.
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But what's really interesting
was after a year of working
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with that person
and certain things,
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certainly started to come up.
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Then we had-- I got a message
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from God anyway,
at a men's retreat.
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And that caused us to start
working with a different person,
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who was trained in a
certain kind of counseling
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that really talk about "peeling
backs the layers of the onion"
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and whatever phrase
you want to put on that.
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A real
biblical. Biblically best.
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Staying right with the Bible.
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And it's just kind of
coaching us through issues.
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Exactly.
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But let me just
say that at initially,
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what was interesting
is you had a lot of...
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and I'd love being able
to say this on national TV.
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I'm gonna look at this
program over and over and over.
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But you know that dealing--
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I, you know I'm dealing
with drugs and insecurity
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and all that kind of stuff,
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but from your
background it was more arrogance
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and pride and
those kind of things
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that we dealt with
in that first year.
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Absolutely, it really
was to-- look at the things
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I inherited both
from my mom and my dad.
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You know, anger,
pride, arrogance.
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The anger thing and
that really I think,
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I think sometimes our
couch is for other things,
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you know, you hide behind that.
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But that was a big thing
and so getting rid of that
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really allowed
me to take us again.
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If you're real angry, sometimes
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it's hard to look
at your own issues.
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You know, because, well,
why would, you know, I'm fine.
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And you just, you know,
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that whole emotion gets
ramped up to where it blocks,
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your ability to
objectively look at who you are.
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And, you know,
and that you may have
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brought something to the table.
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Sometimes there are things
that are socially acceptable.
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You know, quote "I thought
I was driving for excellence"
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you know and just
holding the bar real high.
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When in fact I was
really being a jerk,
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you know, and so
that perspective.
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I like that mm-hmm.
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That was very
polite, baby. Yeah.
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You know and so
I'd being willing to,
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to take a look at those
things honestly and openly.
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And so what's really
interesting to me is,
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as we started out in
this journey is that,
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there was a lot of times
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that I had to allow you to
do some of your own healing.
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And for people
that get into recovery
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as we do really
look at our healing,
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not realizing that
the people around us
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also have their own issues.
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And when I stopped
being so self-focused,
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I am going to either
get angry about your issues
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or allow you to
recover yourself. Exactly.
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You know, what I mean, is I--
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can I give you
permission to recover?
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Can I give you permission
to look at your own stuff
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without me kind
of wanting to say...
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See, look at
you-- See, look at you.
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Oh, you have
problems, too. It's not only me.
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I mean, I really had
to give you permission
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to start looking at
that stuff. Exactly.
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And generationally, what
did that look like for you?
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Exactly, and one of the things,
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that was very revealing was,
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as I was willing to do
that as God really worked a lot.
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Getting rid of the anger
allowed some things to happen,
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but some other
things started to reveal,
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as I looked at the
history in my life.
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And the different
things was starting to realize,
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not so much where I was now,
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but certainly a
core part of who I was,
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as a young man and growing up,
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based upon the things
that the generational stuff,
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I inherited from my family.
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The fact that
discovering much later on,
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that I guess, you
would call it pornography,
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that my dad had
a porn addiction.
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There certainly was verbal
abuse going on in my household
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and while not
direct sexual abuse.
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There was certainly a heightened
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atmosphere of
sexuality going on.
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That I looked at
things that I'd thought,
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I was just the, the all American
boy doing all the things
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that the all American
boy is supposed to do,
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based upon the
world's standards.
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And having
suddenly come to a place,
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where processing all
these different things
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and you're looking at the things
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you have and suddenly
realizing at some point.
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Who the person
was that I had become?
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And I'd like you
to talk a little bit
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about that 'cause I think that,
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that for us was a
really intense time.
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But you had to look at the fact,
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that some of the things
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that you may
have to share with me
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as your wife, I may run.
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I may say to you,
I'm sorry I'd no idea,
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I'm out of here.
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And I don't know
what that was like for you
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when you realized that
we're gonna go into this area.
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Our counselor or the person
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that we were working with
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started talking
about moral failure.
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He said, "Is there
anything in your life
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that you need to really bring
to God and ask for forgiveness
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and not have it to
just hide inside you?"
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And for a lot of us in recovery,
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one of the things that I
think gets us really tripped up,
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is we've done things
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that we don't
anyone else to know about.
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I don't even want
to look at it myself.
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I'm trying to hide it
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and the devil is
playing it like a violin.
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I mean, there's--he just
plays us into get into recovery.
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I have to start
bringing that out and say,
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you know what, I'm
no longer gonna hide.
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I'm no longer gonna
let this stuff fester.
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I'm actually gonna bring it out.
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Ask for
forgiveness not only from God,
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but from the people
that I love, my spouse
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or anybody that I've injured.
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And so you're
coming to that place.
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And what were you thinking
as far as our relationship
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in who I am and
where I've come from?
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Well, I think it
was really was a point,
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you know, if I'd
call it a turning point.
00:08:51.15\00:08:53.50
But it was certainly a place,
00:08:53.53\00:08:54.90
where it was like either
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we're gonna get this
forgiveness thing or we're not.
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And because the
realization I'd come to
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and during that process
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of getting rid
with your moral failure.
00:09:03.34\00:09:05.24
I tried to take and I love,
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we got this from our
friends in Australia.
00:09:06.67\00:09:08.04
During my failure years,
00:09:08.07\00:09:10.31
you know, was I
tried to kind of group
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that into the
whole repentance prayer.
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Please forgive me
for all things I did,
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before I was married.
00:09:17.67\00:09:19.04
And all the acting
out, that I did sexually.
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And I grouped that
all into one little thing
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and went through the process.
00:09:22.97\00:09:24.34
We have a whole prayer,
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we're gonna talk
about that little bit later,
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which is really cool.
00:09:27.51\00:09:28.88
And so we did that.
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And then we always
do a moment, afterwards.
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And we say, okay, you know,
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Jesus is there anything He
needs to know. Anything else.
00:09:33.11\00:09:35.89
Anything else, He
needs to know about this.
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And the counselor,
that guy's name was Joey.
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He looks at me and he
says, what's God telling you?
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I said I need to write
down every single name.
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And it's crazy, it
was-- there were some,
00:09:48.19\00:09:50.74
you know, again I
had one night stands.
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I didn't even know the
names of some of these women.
00:09:52.66\00:09:55.52
And so, it's the
girl in the dream dress.
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It was this person,
it was this, you know.
00:09:59.01\00:10:02.10
And as I've said
a couple of times,
00:10:02.13\00:10:04.75
I was a boy scout,
but I wasn't a saint.
00:10:04.78\00:10:07.26
So let me say,
for somebody watching
00:10:07.29\00:10:10.53
'cause the program is
gonna be about forgiveness.
00:10:10.56\00:10:12.84
As I am listening to my husband
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talk about all this kind of
stuff and I'm a molested kid.
00:10:17.63\00:10:21.82
I'm an abused--I've
been abused my whole life.
00:10:21.85\00:10:25.15
I've been, you know,
00:10:25.18\00:10:27.33
I ended up on the streets at 13.
00:10:27.36\00:10:28.90
I had all of this kind of stuff.
00:10:28.93\00:10:30.96
And I'm listening and I'm
thinking about all the men
00:10:30.99\00:10:34.75
that have injured me.
00:10:34.78\00:10:36.22
And now his story
is becoming like that.
00:10:36.25\00:10:40.54
And it was a weird place to sit.
00:10:40.57\00:10:42.18
'Cause you know I had,
I'm sitting there going,
00:10:42.21\00:10:44.89
God, you know,
what do I do with that?
00:10:44.92\00:10:48.80
And I'm looking
at you processing
00:10:48.83\00:10:51.90
and I know you have to process.
00:10:51.93\00:10:53.30
You have to go there. Yes, yeah.
00:10:53.33\00:10:54.70
And I have for a split second,
00:10:54.73\00:10:57.65
I can either forgive or not.
00:10:57.68\00:10:59.76
And so I want
to cover something,
00:10:59.79\00:11:01.95
Brad, before we go on,
00:11:01.98\00:11:03.35
because I think
it's really important,
00:11:03.38\00:11:04.83
is that and there's a
graphic that I have is,
00:11:04.86\00:11:07.98
understanding
forgiveness is that,
00:11:08.01\00:11:10.99
one of the clearest ways
to understand forgiveness
00:11:11.02\00:11:13.80
is to look at
how God forgives us.
00:11:13.83\00:11:17.91
Our sins stands in the way
for our relationship with God.
00:11:17.94\00:11:21.02
Literally, stands in
the way and God says,
00:11:21.05\00:11:23.74
I'm gonna move all of
that out of the way from you
00:11:23.77\00:11:26.00
and I'm gonna forgive you.
00:11:26.03\00:11:27.40
I no longer condemn you.
00:11:27.43\00:11:28.80
And we can put some
ugly stuff on the table.
00:11:28.83\00:11:31.36
I mean, and we do.
00:11:31.39\00:11:33.52
And in Romans, you know, 3:23
00:11:33.55\00:11:37.40
"As all have sinned and
come short of the glory of God."
00:11:37.43\00:11:39.91
God says, "I will forgive
their iniquity and their sin,
00:11:39.94\00:11:42.54
I won't remember it anymore."
00:11:42.57\00:11:44.00
He says in Jeremiah, "I
will abundantly pardon them."
00:11:44.03\00:11:46.98
You know, all of
those kinds of things,
00:11:47.01\00:11:48.38
when He says
that, for me personally.
00:11:48.41\00:11:51.57
And I've put a ton on the table,
00:11:51.60\00:11:53.24
you know, I've done that.
00:11:53.27\00:11:55.39
And so, as Brad is
going through his issues,
00:11:55.42\00:11:57.67
God has reminded me who
He is and the forgiveness
00:11:57.70\00:12:01.10
that he has put in my own life.
00:12:01.13\00:12:02.85
And He doesn't choose
to focus on my faults.
00:12:02.88\00:12:05.69
He chooses to
focus on His grace.
00:12:05.72\00:12:08.28
And who He is and how incredible
00:12:08.31\00:12:10.72
and huge His
forgiveness is for us.
00:12:10.75\00:12:12.66
And He really
does focus on that.
00:12:12.69\00:12:15.03
And as you were
dealing with your stuff,
00:12:15.06\00:12:17.25
I'm hearing the Holy Spirit say,
00:12:17.28\00:12:19.32
"Remember how
I've forgiven you."
00:12:19.35\00:12:21.69
I want you to extend that
forgiveness to your spouse.
00:12:21.72\00:12:24.43
And I didn't know if I could.
00:12:24.46\00:12:26.78
Do you know, I don't
know if I can? I don't know.
00:12:26.81\00:12:29.11
I don't know if I'm
that, I have that much in me.
00:12:29.14\00:12:31.80
And you
continued to talk. Right.
00:12:31.83\00:12:35.69
And I am thinking.
00:12:35.72\00:12:37.09
I don't even want
to know anything else.
00:12:37.12\00:12:39.94
And yet you're healing,
you had to have me know.
00:12:39.97\00:12:43.55
Right. I kind of got this
little image and this is--
00:12:43.58\00:12:48.16
guys will relate to this maybe
a little bit more than girls,
00:12:48.19\00:12:50.39
but our sin, and
Satan and the sins
00:12:50.42\00:12:54.89
and the things
we kind of create.
00:12:54.92\00:12:56.29
Almost create these
walls in our mind sometime,
00:12:56.32\00:12:57.69
hides in the darkness.
00:12:57.72\00:12:59.09
Right, we grow clear
about that distinction
00:12:59.12\00:13:01.52
between light and darkness.
00:13:01.55\00:13:03.57
And so I don't
know what I was doing,
00:13:03.60\00:13:05.59
but I was wearing one of those
00:13:05.62\00:13:06.99
little strap-on
headlamps, right.
00:13:07.02\00:13:08.39
And so, the light shines
00:13:08.42\00:13:10.23
where ever you look,
when you wear that thing.
00:13:10.26\00:13:11.63
If I look over
here, there's the light.
00:13:11.66\00:13:13.03
If I look over
here, there's the light.
00:13:13.06\00:13:14.93
Okay, all of a sudden, a
symbolism was so clear to me,
00:13:14.96\00:13:17.37
was like, look,
God is the light.
00:13:17.40\00:13:19.57
And wherever you look
that light's gonna shine.
00:13:19.60\00:13:22.94
So I have to be
willing to look at the issue
00:13:22.97\00:13:25.76
and shine the light on it,
00:13:25.79\00:13:27.34
in order to
chase the darkness out.
00:13:27.37\00:13:29.03
I mean, it was a
little bit simple but--
00:13:29.06\00:13:30.43
And not be held
in bondage to that.
00:13:30.46\00:13:31.83
And not be held in
bondage because of that.
00:13:31.86\00:13:33.23
Because those
barriers that we put up,
00:13:33.26\00:13:35.76
create the shadows that,
00:13:35.79\00:13:38.25
you know, Satan can then hide in
00:13:38.28\00:13:39.65
and take part
chance at us or whatever.
00:13:39.68\00:13:41.38
You literally can, you know,
build a wall around yourself.
00:13:41.41\00:13:43.63
So I had to shine
the light on this issue.
00:13:43.66\00:13:46.01
And look at it and
put it all on the table.
00:13:46.04\00:13:48.51
Or it would have followed
you the rest of your life.
00:13:48.54\00:13:51.73
Definitely,
destroyed any relationship.
00:13:51.76\00:13:53.57
Right, it would
interfere with our ability
00:13:53.60\00:13:55.35
to actually love each other.
00:13:55.38\00:13:56.92
And that was you know,
00:13:56.95\00:13:58.32
I mean that's the
ultimate goal, right?
00:13:58.35\00:13:59.72
I love you, yes.
00:13:59.75\00:14:01.37
So, you know,
00:14:01.40\00:14:02.94
and so what's really
interesting is the first thing.
00:14:02.97\00:14:05.90
I don't know, if you
remember the first thing,
00:14:05.93\00:14:07.52
you said to me
during that whole process.
00:14:07.55\00:14:09.52
And you're looking about
all of these different things.
00:14:09.55\00:14:12.33
And the fact that you were
sexually active really early
00:14:12.36\00:14:14.86
and that you could just walk in.
00:14:14.89\00:14:18.10
And it wasn't even a matter of,
00:14:18.13\00:14:20.27
what her name was or whatever
and all that kind of stuff,
00:14:20.30\00:14:22.45
as you're looking
at this kind of stuff.
00:14:22.48\00:14:24.33
I remember the first
thing, you said to me,
00:14:24.36\00:14:26.44
as you said, "Will you
forgive me for all of the women
00:14:26.47\00:14:30.96
that I've had in my life?
00:14:30.99\00:14:32.55
And I remember thinking.
I don't need to forgive you.
00:14:32.58\00:14:34.99
I mean, I'm not the saint
and I have own stuff and...
00:14:35.02\00:14:38.40
But as soon as you
said that and I said, yes.
00:14:38.43\00:14:42.03
There was some
healing that happened.
00:14:42.06\00:14:43.82
I didn't need to hear
you at least say to me,
00:14:43.85\00:14:47.04
I wish it would have
been different for us.
00:14:47.07\00:14:48.83
I wish that you would
have been my first love.
00:14:48.86\00:14:52.41
And I wish I would have
known all that kind of stuff.
00:14:52.44\00:14:54.92
And I didn't even
realize in a spiritual sense
00:14:54.95\00:14:57.30
how much God wants that for us.
00:14:57.33\00:15:00.38
And it was ridiculously
cool. It was really cool.
00:15:00.41\00:15:04.45
But I think really for us,
to really kind of complete,
00:15:04.48\00:15:08.83
at least for me, to
completely cleanse that,
00:15:08.86\00:15:11.34
this had to go one step further
00:15:11.37\00:15:12.90
and I had to ask you forgive me
00:15:12.93\00:15:14.61
for being the kind
of person that had--
00:15:14.64\00:15:17.21
Talk about that a little bit.
00:15:17.24\00:15:18.74
And that's a really
crazy place to be again and I--
00:15:18.77\00:15:22.41
And you know,
talk about the way,
00:15:22.44\00:15:24.27
'cause you really struggled
with that for a long time,
00:15:24.30\00:15:27.65
before you were
brave enough to even,
00:15:27.68\00:15:29.70
say it out loud to me.
00:15:29.73\00:15:31.10
I think so.
00:15:31.13\00:15:32.50
And again, it's
probably one of those things
00:15:32.53\00:15:33.90
where growing up, I was far
more influenced by the world
00:15:33.93\00:15:35.99
than I was by the
church, I did not grow up.
00:15:36.02\00:15:39.42
While I was raised
in the Methodist Church,
00:15:39.45\00:15:40.85
I wasn't active in any church.
00:15:40.88\00:15:42.25
When you met me I was nothing--
00:15:42.28\00:15:44.54
I had left the
church at that time, too.
00:15:44.57\00:15:46.10
Yeah, I was, I don't know
whether I was agnostic or not,
00:15:46.13\00:15:48.69
but I was just, I was nothing.
00:15:48.72\00:15:50.66
And so, there really
was no moral compass.
00:15:50.69\00:15:53.01
There actually had been
no spiritual protection,
00:15:53.04\00:15:54.71
in my household as well.
00:15:54.74\00:15:56.11
So I really
believe I was subject
00:15:56.14\00:15:57.51
and really opened to
all kinds of influences
00:15:57.54\00:16:02.01
that looking back on
were extremely not healthy.
00:16:02.04\00:16:05.71
So to come to
that place suddenly,
00:16:05.74\00:16:07.32
where you had to take a look at,
00:16:07.35\00:16:10.04
what is my character, who am I?
00:16:10.07\00:16:12.11
You know, who
are my role models?
00:16:12.14\00:16:14.29
What I've done and what
I've modeled my life after?
00:16:14.32\00:16:16.53
And is this something
over here to be proud of.
00:16:16.56\00:16:19.79
You know or do
you start to realize,
00:16:19.82\00:16:21.49
oh, my gosh, how many people
00:16:21.52\00:16:22.89
have I hurt or
injured or wounded?
00:16:22.92\00:16:24.62
But you know what's
really interesting to me
00:16:24.65\00:16:26.57
in watching that process,
Brad, that you went through,
00:16:26.60\00:16:30.74
is that you weren't asking
00:16:30.77\00:16:32.52
that of the church
or of the world anymore.
00:16:32.55\00:16:34.35
You were asking that of God.
00:16:34.38\00:16:35.75
God, who am I? Yes.
00:16:35.78\00:16:37.15
And what is my character? Yes.
00:16:37.18\00:16:38.55
And so to me, you know,
when we ever, in our addiction
00:16:38.58\00:16:41.79
when we turn to God
and say, God, who am I?
00:16:41.82\00:16:44.83
As a woman, who am
I? As a man, who am I?
00:16:44.86\00:16:47.88
As far as, you know,
good, bad, all kind of stuff.
00:16:47.91\00:16:52.47
And the standard is now God.
00:16:52.50\00:16:55.02
He's really
gentle, but He shows us
00:16:55.05\00:16:57.52
that we have been lied to.
00:16:57.55\00:16:59.16
That we have really
given ourselves away
00:16:59.19\00:17:01.78
and prostituted
ourselves out to the world
00:17:01.81\00:17:04.37
and He's gonna
try to redeem that.
00:17:04.40\00:17:07.85
And so being able to
sit there and ask you
00:17:07.88\00:17:09.91
will you forgive me
for being that person?
00:17:09.94\00:17:12.96
That guy. At one time.
00:17:12.99\00:17:14.36
That guy--I was the
guy who would have been
00:17:14.39\00:17:16.41
trying to pick
you up off the street.
00:17:16.44\00:17:18.47
You know, I would
have been that guy.
00:17:18.50\00:17:19.92
So then, now the
ball's in your court.
00:17:19.95\00:17:22.00
And you know again to
achieve a level of intimacy,
00:17:22.03\00:17:26.11
you know, the kind of intimacy
00:17:26.14\00:17:27.51
that I believe God
really wants for all of us,
00:17:27.54\00:17:30.84
requires am I
willing to-- I'm gonna say,
00:17:30.87\00:17:35.01
have His level and not that
we can ever get close to that.
00:17:35.04\00:17:37.64
But at least attempt,
to forgive in the manner
00:17:37.67\00:17:40.19
that He forgives
because He forgives everything.
00:17:40.22\00:17:43.16
So for that
moment, for that moment,
00:17:43.19\00:17:47.21
I understood the
most incredible thing
00:17:47.24\00:17:50.91
that we can do for each other
00:17:50.94\00:17:53.36
is to say, I forgive you.
00:17:53.39\00:17:55.70
I forgive you, not
because of any other thing,
00:17:55.73\00:17:59.28
but because God has forgiven me.
00:17:59.31\00:18:01.51
Do you know what I mean?
00:18:01.54\00:18:02.91
And I knew that
what you had said
00:18:02.94\00:18:05.87
is that I thought about
different people in my life
00:18:05.90\00:18:09.23
that have injured me.
00:18:09.26\00:18:10.63
I thought about
all that kind of stuff.
00:18:10.66\00:18:12.03
I thought about everything
00:18:12.06\00:18:13.43
that you were
bringing to the table
00:18:13.46\00:18:14.83
and sharing from the
time that you were young.
00:18:14.86\00:18:17.09
And God said, I felt
like God was just saying
00:18:17.12\00:18:20.07
"Please, Cheri,
don't mess this one up.
00:18:20.10\00:18:23.78
Release him."
00:18:23.81\00:18:25.18
'Cause, you know, and it
was an incredible place to be
00:18:25.21\00:18:28.34
as just look at you and say,
I forgive you and I love you.
00:18:28.37\00:18:31.11
Yeah.
00:18:31.14\00:18:32.68
We'll get through
this. We'll get through it.
00:18:32.71\00:18:34.67
And what's really cool
00:18:34.70\00:18:36.46
and I know we're
gonna talk about this
00:18:36.49\00:18:37.86
coming up in a little bit.
00:18:37.89\00:18:39.26
But the process that we used
00:18:39.29\00:18:40.87
in working through
that level of forgiveness,
00:18:40.90\00:18:43.55
it's more so then and
I've talked about this before.
00:18:43.58\00:18:45.86
You know, you have these
issues and you walk along
00:18:45.89\00:18:48.53
and maybe you'll get
a little help somewhere,
00:18:48.56\00:18:51.38
some counseling
and so, you know,
00:18:51.41\00:18:52.89
you're dragging
this chain behind you,
00:18:52.92\00:18:54.29
all these issues, great.
00:18:54.32\00:18:56.58
To give you some
wheels to put on that stuff.
00:18:56.61\00:18:58.32
So it's not quite
so hard to pull along.
00:18:58.35\00:19:00.91
Where, you're still pulling it.
00:19:00.94\00:19:02.31
It's still there, but, you know,
it's not quite so noticeable.
00:19:02.34\00:19:04.42
Well, then, maybe you
work some more on your stuff
00:19:04.45\00:19:05.97
and some more counseling
depending on what it is.
00:19:06.00\00:19:08.38
And, well, now it's motorized,
00:19:08.41\00:19:09.94
it put a little motor on you--
00:19:09.97\00:19:11.34
I can even go up
hill-- It drives itself.
00:19:11.37\00:19:13.52
You know, it's not a big
deal to be holding it around.
00:19:13.55\00:19:16.27
But the kind of
freedom that God is asking.
00:19:16.30\00:19:18.21
The healing and forgiveness
00:19:18.24\00:19:19.61
that He is
offering us is in fact,
00:19:19.64\00:19:21.31
you don't even have it anymore.
00:19:21.34\00:19:23.16
I don't have to carry this. I
don't have to carry it at all.
00:19:23.19\00:19:25.98
And so to me when we
kind of got to that place
00:19:26.01\00:19:28.46
where suddenly the burden that
was lifted was unbelievable.
00:19:28.49\00:19:31.41
And I think we were
both able to see each other
00:19:31.44\00:19:34.22
in a totally different light.
00:19:34.25\00:19:35.73
In a certain way that, you know,
it's just really different.
00:19:35.76\00:19:38.74
And I think sometimes,
00:19:38.77\00:19:40.64
you speak a little bit
more to the men right now.
00:19:40.67\00:19:42.58
That's really
hard for guys to do.
00:19:42.61\00:19:44.97
You have to be willing to
be vulnerable in a certain way,
00:19:45.00\00:19:47.51
but the reality is
the payoff is huge.
00:19:47.54\00:19:50.77
In what sense?
00:19:50.80\00:19:53.68
Women need a place to
be safe and to be trusting.
00:19:53.71\00:19:58.14
And I think when they have a
man who is willing to be one,
00:19:58.17\00:20:02.61
that vulnerable
and that open to them,
00:20:02.64\00:20:04.84
to be willing to share
that much, that's huge.
00:20:04.87\00:20:07.49
'Cause you fight to be a
safe place for your family.
00:20:07.52\00:20:11.56
And so I think for
a lot of your journey
00:20:11.59\00:20:15.41
is I'm amazed at how
much you fight to keep us safe
00:20:15.44\00:20:19.28
even from the
influences of your past.
00:20:19.31\00:20:22.58
Oh, absolutely.
00:20:22.61\00:20:25.12
I think the pressure
on men in general society,
00:20:25.15\00:20:28.30
is so far removed from
what God intends to be a man.
00:20:28.33\00:20:32.23
It's so far
removed that for guys.
00:20:32.26\00:20:35.30
It really, it's a
huge, it's a huge battle.
00:20:35.34\00:20:38.71
But with my
willingness to actually be
00:20:38.74\00:20:41.85
that vulnerable with you
00:20:41.88\00:20:43.55
and your
willingness to forgive me,
00:20:43.58\00:20:45.61
certainly, you know
that I really do care.
00:20:45.64\00:20:48.10
I am trying to be a safe
place and also a strong place,
00:20:48.13\00:20:52.74
'cause when I get
rid of that baggage,
00:20:52.77\00:20:54.14
I can be much stronger. Much--
00:20:54.17\00:20:55.69
You're willing to be the
spiritual leader of house.
00:20:55.72\00:20:57.64
Absolutely.
00:20:57.67\00:20:59.04
One time I remember
and this cracked me up
00:20:59.07\00:21:02.14
'cause I just wanted to
kiss you all over the face.
00:21:02.17\00:21:04.25
But I remember you
were at the university,
00:21:04.28\00:21:06.03
at work and having lunch with
a number of other professors.
00:21:06.06\00:21:09.96
Do you remember that day?
I do. I do remember that day.
00:21:09.99\00:21:13.96
And what I
heard, just so you know,
00:21:13.99\00:21:16.71
you're talking about the day.
00:21:16.74\00:21:18.11
And this incredibly hot,
young thing walks by the table.
00:21:18.14\00:21:23.67
And each of the professor's
talks about this girl
00:21:23.70\00:21:27.90
and what they saw
00:21:27.93\00:21:29.95
and what they would
like to do and whatever.
00:21:29.98\00:21:32.08
And you said in the
middle of that table.
00:21:32.11\00:21:34.36
You know, I'm trying
to honor God and my wife
00:21:34.39\00:21:36.98
and I don't allow
myself to go there anymore.
00:21:37.01\00:21:39.80
And you're telling me
that and I'm like shut up,
00:21:39.83\00:21:42.18
I love you, come near.
00:21:42.21\00:21:44.42
And I think that you
told it to me so casually,
00:21:44.45\00:21:46.88
but I think every
woman wants to know
00:21:46.91\00:21:49.83
that not only have
you dealt with your stuff,
00:21:49.86\00:21:51.71
but you brought it at the table.
00:21:51.74\00:21:53.11
You handed it to God.
00:21:53.14\00:21:54.53
You came clean
with me personally.
00:21:54.56\00:21:57.61
And you and God are
dealing with that. Right.
00:21:57.64\00:22:01.42
You know, it's not
something you're doing
00:22:01.45\00:22:02.82
because you know what, you
know that I want you to do it.
00:22:02.85\00:22:05.55
But you're doing it
'cause you're a man of God
00:22:05.58\00:22:07.64
and that's what you want to do.
00:22:07.67\00:22:09.29
I love that. Exactly.
00:22:09.32\00:22:11.05
Did I ever say
thank you for that?
00:22:11.08\00:22:12.45
I don't know if you
did. Thank you, hun.
00:22:12.48\00:22:14.11
Oh, in public, in
front of people now.
00:22:14.14\00:22:15.79
I know. I love this. Go ahead.
00:22:15.82\00:22:19.32
So the thing that
I think is important
00:22:19.35\00:22:21.59
and we've done
this for each other.
00:22:21.62\00:22:22.99
'Cause you've certainly brought
all kinds of things to me,
00:22:23.02\00:22:25.32
issues and stuff from
your past and different things.
00:22:25.35\00:22:27.68
I have a few. You
know, so do we all.
00:22:27.71\00:22:30.54
You know, but it's I
don't know how to say,
00:22:30.57\00:22:33.59
the sincerity of forgiveness
or the level of forgiveness.
00:22:33.62\00:22:36.31
And I think that's where,
00:22:36.34\00:22:38.35
you know, who can
forgive, but God really.
00:22:38.38\00:22:41.80
And so, when we through study
00:22:41.83\00:22:45.03
whatever get the Holy
Spirit really, truly is in us.
00:22:45.06\00:22:48.53
Then our ability to
forgive becomes genuine and true
00:22:48.56\00:22:51.38
and deep and to what you do.
00:22:51.41\00:22:53.39
You're dropping this stuff off.
00:22:53.42\00:22:54.79
You're not hauling it
around on wheels anymore.
00:22:54.82\00:22:56.56
You're not trying
to carry it around.
00:22:56.59\00:22:58.17
What's really interesting to me,
00:22:58.20\00:22:59.57
is I think that
there's something
00:22:59.60\00:23:01.02
that you said
during this process
00:23:01.05\00:23:02.43
is that you always
kind of felt like you--
00:23:02.46\00:23:05.00
there's a, that
part of you have to hide.
00:23:05.03\00:23:07.27
And now that part of
you is not even there.
00:23:07.30\00:23:08.90
That God said let me
just remove that and show you,
00:23:08.93\00:23:12.34
who you are
outside of that garbage.
00:23:12.37\00:23:14.49
Right. Outside
of that knowledge.
00:23:14.52\00:23:18.10
And I think that
and this is still,
00:23:18.13\00:23:21.67
this is a little bit
scary territory for me.
00:23:21.70\00:23:23.90
When at this
point is to have a man
00:23:23.93\00:23:26.46
and I consider
myself to be a man's man.
00:23:26.49\00:23:29.38
I go skiing and I'm a
pretty aggressive skier.
00:23:29.41\00:23:32.98
I do hundred mile
bike rides. I hike.
00:23:33.01\00:23:36.07
And you know,
you get in my face,
00:23:36.10\00:23:38.25
I'm gonna respond,
you know, kind of thing.
00:23:38.28\00:23:42.23
You know, from that standpoint,
00:23:42.26\00:23:43.63
but by the same
token is to see compassion
00:23:43.66\00:23:47.16
in people to have understanding
00:23:47.19\00:23:48.56
and be willing to
say out loud in public.
00:23:48.59\00:23:51.93
You know, I forgive
you or I was wrong or,
00:23:51.96\00:23:55.02
you know, gosh, I bet
that just really hurts.
00:23:55.05\00:23:56.74
I mean, there's just things that
men haven't been allowed to do
00:23:56.77\00:24:00.16
and haven't been allowed
to be, by society, today.
00:24:00.19\00:24:03.26
And that is such a lie.
00:24:03.29\00:24:05.23
Yeah, but it's cool.
00:24:05.26\00:24:06.88
When I even watch you
go there. It's very cool.
00:24:06.91\00:24:09.63
And as I do that you feel safe.
00:24:09.66\00:24:12.10
That I am safe to
tell this guy anything.
00:24:12.13\00:24:14.87
And I'm not gonna get rejected.
00:24:14.90\00:24:16.27
I am not gonna, you know,
00:24:16.30\00:24:17.67
there isn't gonna be
some kind of backlashes.
00:24:17.70\00:24:19.31
He's not gonna
get real angry. Right.
00:24:19.34\00:24:21.35
He's gonna take a
look and understand,
00:24:21.38\00:24:23.48
as best you can,
with his feeble male mind.
00:24:23.51\00:24:26.39
Yeah. And--
00:24:26.42\00:24:27.79
I love, I heard
you say to someone,
00:24:27.82\00:24:29.54
when you were doing,
you were talking to group,
00:24:29.57\00:24:31.29
at one point is you'd said
00:24:31.32\00:24:33.87
that when I
surrendered this stuff to God
00:24:33.90\00:24:37.78
and worked on the issue where
Cheri asked her forgiveness.
00:24:37.81\00:24:41.78
I realized it that I got
everything at that point.
00:24:41.81\00:24:44.02
I got everything I
wanted in a relationship
00:24:44.05\00:24:45.91
so can you
explain what that meant.
00:24:45.94\00:24:47.91
And 'cause a lot of
guys, I don't think realize
00:24:47.94\00:24:49.91
that you get everything. Right.
00:24:49.94\00:24:52.79
And we talked
about this a little bit,
00:24:52.82\00:24:55.52
maybe last year,
but I'll go in again is,
00:24:55.55\00:24:58.59
you know, women want a place
to be safe and feel cared for.
00:24:58.62\00:25:01.94
Men want to be respected.
00:25:01.97\00:25:04.81
If the woman doesn't
feel safe and cared for,
00:25:04.84\00:25:07.03
she has a real hard
time respecting the guy.
00:25:07.06\00:25:09.59
And so it's and then
you get to the thing,
00:25:09.62\00:25:11.50
I always call
who's gonna blink first.
00:25:11.53\00:25:12.95
You know, you get to that place
00:25:12.98\00:25:14.35
where someone has to be
willing to make the first step
00:25:14.38\00:25:17.18
or do something in a capacity
to start to open the door
00:25:17.21\00:25:20.26
for conversation or a
gesture or a something.
00:25:20.29\00:25:23.71
And to me, its really clear.
00:25:23.74\00:25:26.23
And I think the
Bible is pretty true,
00:25:26.26\00:25:27.63
that responsibility
falls on the guy really,
00:25:27.66\00:25:29.79
to take the first step.
00:25:29.82\00:25:31.19
I think it falls on the guys to
00:25:31.22\00:25:34.23
do more than
take the first step.
00:25:34.26\00:25:35.98
And be willing to really just--
00:25:36.01\00:25:38.76
What's really funny is
I'm trying to let you say that
00:25:38.79\00:25:40.98
and every woman's like whatever.
00:25:41.01\00:25:43.30
We've been taking
this first step forever.
00:25:43.33\00:25:45.87
But it's really interesting
to watch for somebody
00:25:45.90\00:25:49.08
to step up into that place
00:25:49.11\00:25:50.73
and give the woman permission
to not have to carry it all.
00:25:50.76\00:25:54.87
And so that's I think an
incredible thing is that,
00:25:54.90\00:25:58.12
you know, it is
fun, when somebody takes
00:25:58.15\00:26:00.70
the spiritual leadership
and a woman can sit down
00:26:00.73\00:26:03.85
and not have to take it.
00:26:03.88\00:26:05.25
And then what happens
is, soon as the man feels
00:26:05.28\00:26:07.19
even the tiniest little respect
from his wife, all of a sudden,
00:26:07.22\00:26:12.22
it's like well,
well that's really cool.
00:26:12.25\00:26:14.38
And so chief, I did this, I get.
00:26:14.41\00:26:16.58
You know, its, you know,
and not that it is, you know,
00:26:16.61\00:26:20.85
when you want to say an
even exchange necessarily but--
00:26:20.88\00:26:24.73
The result is that
you get what you want
00:26:24.76\00:26:26.82
and suddenly I get what I want.
00:26:26.85\00:26:28.32
And everybody wins.
That's the thing to me.
00:26:28.35\00:26:29.89
I look at that whole situation
is when you can be open
00:26:29.92\00:26:32.79
and sincere and truly forgiving.
00:26:32.82\00:26:35.42
And everybody wins.
00:26:35.45\00:26:37.99
There was some statistics that I
thought were really interesting.
00:26:38.02\00:26:41.40
And I'd like to
cover that, is that
00:26:41.43\00:26:43.92
when somebody is
lost in sexual sin
00:26:43.95\00:26:45.69
or pornography and
all that kind of stuff,
00:26:45.72\00:26:47.59
is they're able
to love the people
00:26:47.62\00:26:49.53
in their life
at a small percent.
00:26:49.56\00:26:51.58
Somebody says 3% to 12%.
00:26:51.61\00:26:54.00
So you're not present
00:26:54.03\00:26:56.20
and you're not
doing an exchange.
00:26:56.23\00:26:58.00
And even in intimate situations,
most women will feel somehow,
00:26:58.03\00:27:02.94
that may be you're
thinking about someone else
00:27:02.97\00:27:04.91
or you're with
someone else or whatever.
00:27:04.94\00:27:06.90
And so, statistics say that
unless that stuff is cleaned up.
00:27:06.93\00:27:11.11
You can't connect
really intimately.
00:27:11.14\00:27:13.17
And I think that God,
00:27:13.20\00:27:15.27
this is gonna, I'm
sorry I got frisky.
00:27:15.30\00:27:17.49
I think that God knows that.
00:27:17.52\00:27:19.93
Soon as I was going to say,
I thought how silly is that.
00:27:19.96\00:27:22.44
God knows that.
00:27:22.47\00:27:23.84
God is saying "You are asking me
00:27:23.87\00:27:26.62
to give you life
and life abundantly.
00:27:26.65\00:27:29.46
And with all of these things
in your pocket are in hiding,
00:27:29.49\00:27:32.33
I can't do that."
00:27:32.36\00:27:34.15
And so you have to be willing.
00:27:34.18\00:27:35.55
And I think He's
asking all of us,
00:27:35.58\00:27:37.39
be willing to
bring this stuff out.
00:27:37.42\00:27:40.06
Let me clean out your closets.
00:27:40.09\00:27:42.06
Let me get this
stuff out of your pockets.
00:27:42.09\00:27:43.95
Let me get these
relationships to be real.
00:27:43.98\00:27:46.97
And at one point, if
you allow that to happen,
00:27:47.00\00:27:50.81
you truly will live abundantly.
00:27:50.84\00:27:54.32
It's real interesting.
00:27:54.35\00:27:55.72
And again looking at, as
we went through all the stuff
00:27:55.75\00:27:57.69
and realizing and I had
kind of known this a while ago,
00:27:57.72\00:28:00.92
but looking at
it more objectively
00:28:00.95\00:28:02.39
that I grew up in
an alcoholic family.
00:28:02.42\00:28:05.73
Now they were
socially functional alcoholics.
00:28:05.76\00:28:07.76
And it wasn't like
this was the, you know,
00:28:07.79\00:28:10.07
the person stumbling
down the alley kind of thing.
00:28:10.10\00:28:11.87
Hey, you're mom's a
violinist. Violinist.
00:28:11.90\00:28:13.27
You're dad, a
research scientist.
00:28:13.30\00:28:14.67
Research engineer for
the federal government
00:28:14.70\00:28:16.22
and stuff, but, you know,
I can remember at the young.
00:28:16.25\00:28:19.10
There's always
alcohol in the house,
00:28:19.13\00:28:20.51
always alcohol in the house.
00:28:20.54\00:28:22.22
And, you know, I
succumbed to that early,
00:28:22.25\00:28:24.02
but that emotional thing.
00:28:24.05\00:28:25.54
Again, that in
spite we did cool stuff.
00:28:25.57\00:28:27.55
We did cool stuff all
the time. I love my parents.
00:28:27.58\00:28:29.88
My dad has passed,
but I love them dearly.
00:28:29.91\00:28:32.74
We did cool stuff, but
the emotional connection
00:28:32.77\00:28:35.24
that God so desires us
to have with each other
00:28:35.27\00:28:38.07
and with Him 3%, 5%--
00:28:38.10\00:28:41.56
Was not there. Was not there.
00:28:41.59\00:28:43.73
You know, to this day
my mom sometimes wonders,
00:28:43.76\00:28:45.63
why her kids
don't call her so often.
00:28:45.66\00:28:48.58
You raised us.
00:28:48.61\00:28:51.01
And that don't mean
that in a vindictive sense,
00:28:51.04\00:28:54.44
but somehow that
was the environment
00:28:54.47\00:28:57.34
that, you know, we lived in.
00:28:57.37\00:28:58.74
It's interesting our son-in-law,
00:28:58.77\00:29:00.40
all his family lives
right next to each other.
00:29:00.43\00:29:01.99
And, man, they're a
family. You know, what I mean?
00:29:02.02\00:29:04.93
They're just at each others
house, all the time hanging out.
00:29:04.96\00:29:08.21
I'm 1,800 miles
away from my own mom.
00:29:08.24\00:29:11.03
I got one sister,
who is 250 miles away
00:29:11.06\00:29:13.91
and another one
that's 160 miles away.
00:29:13.94\00:29:16.17
So like, you
know, our family went--
00:29:16.20\00:29:19.24
And, you know, so
it's interesting thing
00:29:19.27\00:29:20.64
to realize and look at that.
00:29:20.67\00:29:22.04
You now, in
terms of that dynamic
00:29:22.07\00:29:23.96
of where our emotional place is.
00:29:23.99\00:29:26.06
And I think that, what I
think it's incredible about
00:29:26.09\00:29:29.30
who God is, is God says,
00:29:29.33\00:29:31.05
"As you come into
relationship with me,
00:29:31.08\00:29:34.02
that I want to bring
recovery, in all of those areas,
00:29:34.05\00:29:38.68
recovery to your
families, of origin recovery
00:29:38.71\00:29:41.29
to your relationships now,
recovery to your children."
00:29:41.32\00:29:44.34
So that genetically, you're not
passing that same stuff down.
00:29:44.37\00:29:48.01
But, you know, I think that when
we step into our Christianity.
00:29:48.04\00:29:51.31
We step in our Christianity
in a way that is just so,
00:29:51.34\00:29:54.83
I don't know what
we think recovery is.
00:29:54.86\00:29:57.48
God says I'm really
taking this damaged thing.
00:29:57.51\00:30:00.99
And I wish that if we could see
how incredibly damaged, we are.
00:30:01.02\00:30:04.22
I think that we would
just be going like, God.
00:30:04.25\00:30:06.09
Are you sure, you can fix
this? Do you know what I mean?
00:30:06.12\00:30:08.47
But I think, He really takes
that and says, if you trust me,
00:30:08.50\00:30:12.45
turn it all the way over 'cause
there is not a part of us.
00:30:12.48\00:30:15.46
I don't think that actually
00:30:15.49\00:30:17.70
doesn't need
some kind of recovery.
00:30:17.73\00:30:19.46
So let's, getting back
to the idea of forgiveness
00:30:19.49\00:30:22.66
and some other
things that go with that.
00:30:22.69\00:30:24.10
This is really interesting is,
in order for me to be free of
00:30:24.13\00:30:27.18
some of the baggage I
inherited from my father,
00:30:27.21\00:30:29.08
all the sexual stuff.
00:30:29.11\00:30:30.48
And realizing the things some of
the alcoholism and other things.
00:30:30.51\00:30:34.79
My dad's dead.
00:30:34.82\00:30:36.92
There's no way, you know,
00:30:36.95\00:30:38.45
he can ask for
forgiveness or apologize to me.
00:30:38.48\00:30:42.67
And yet I needed to forgive him.
00:30:42.70\00:30:44.77
And so and forgive
him in a manner whereby,
00:30:44.80\00:30:46.71
I truly am done with this stuff.
00:30:46.74\00:30:49.60
So what was real interesting,
00:30:49.63\00:30:51.00
as we with the
process that we did,
00:30:51.03\00:30:52.50
with the
counseling with Joe, and he,
00:30:52.53\00:30:55.67
who was an Italian named
attorney from New Jersey,
00:30:55.70\00:30:59.19
so he was relentless,
relentless in his stuff.
00:30:59.22\00:31:02.92
But he introduced us to
this process of forgiveness
00:31:02.95\00:31:05.65
that was so powerful.
00:31:05.68\00:31:07.93
That allows, it allows
you to actually be free.
00:31:07.96\00:31:10.13
Not just, oh yeah, I forgive it.
00:31:10.16\00:31:11.53
I'm gonna put it
over on the shelf here
00:31:11.56\00:31:12.93
and get it out of the way.
00:31:12.96\00:31:14.65
I'm gonna try to
explain some of the process.
00:31:14.68\00:31:17.73
And so, we have one
graphic I want to put up.
00:31:17.76\00:31:20.90
It's called the
process of forgiveness.
00:31:20.93\00:31:22.99
Imagine in your life,
imagine an event happens.
00:31:26.55\00:31:31.76
You acted out sexually or
sexual abuse, verbal abuse,
00:31:31.79\00:31:34.89
domestic violence or whatever.
00:31:34.92\00:31:36.38
This event happens
and a lot of times,
00:31:36.41\00:31:38.74
we'll go back and
we'll try to heal this event.
00:31:38.77\00:31:42.51
My dad molested me
since I was 6 months old.
00:31:42.54\00:31:44.93
I mean, my parents were addicts.
00:31:44.96\00:31:46.67
I mean, I have all
of this kind of stuff.
00:31:46.70\00:31:48.43
I could go back to any of those
issues and I can keep saying
00:31:48.46\00:31:51.15
okay, I forgive my
dad, I forgive whatever.
00:31:51.18\00:31:53.41
But I think that we don't
realize that we have an enemy
00:31:53.44\00:31:56.43
and the devil is strategic
in the way he attacks us.
00:31:56.46\00:32:00.31
And what he does from the event
00:32:00.34\00:32:02.27
is he sets up schemes
that come up from the event.
00:32:02.30\00:32:05.67
When I was
neglected I then felt angry,
00:32:05.70\00:32:09.40
I felt unloved, I felt like--
00:32:09.43\00:32:11.99
And so, here's the event.
00:32:12.02\00:32:17.77
Here's all of the stuff
that came out of that event.
00:32:17.80\00:32:21.42
I felt so insecure.
00:32:21.45\00:32:24.19
I felt like there is nobody
that is going to be trusted.
00:32:24.22\00:32:27.00
There's nobody in the world
that's gonna understand me.
00:32:27.03\00:32:29.08
So there's so many
things that come out of that.
00:32:29.11\00:32:31.77
And so it's not the
event that damages me.
00:32:31.80\00:32:34.66
It's my years of
believing all of those lives.
00:32:34.69\00:32:37.78
And so God says I'm
gonna actually have to come in,
00:32:37.81\00:32:41.36
not only and deal
with the original injury,
00:32:41.39\00:32:44.56
but everything that you carry
with your every single day.
00:32:44.59\00:32:47.88
And the Bible
talks about, you know,
00:32:47.91\00:32:50.67
the Satan and strongholds
00:32:50.70\00:32:52.07
and arrows and all
that kind of stuff.
00:32:52.10\00:32:53.47
And I believe
the devil sets us up,
00:32:53.50\00:32:56.66
to every single time
that there's an event,
00:32:56.69\00:32:58.46
that's close to that.
00:32:58.49\00:33:00.20
All of those lies come back up.
00:33:00.23\00:33:01.85
So somebody that-- relationship,
00:33:01.88\00:33:05.20
current relationship breaks
up or friendship breaks up.
00:33:05.23\00:33:06.60
I lose a job.
00:33:06.63\00:33:08.00
I say the same
thing, I'm unloved.
00:33:08.03\00:33:09.40
I'm not good enough.
00:33:09.43\00:33:10.90
All the lies repeat themselves
00:33:10.93\00:33:12.44
and God says I want you
00:33:12.47\00:33:13.84
to not only look at
this original damage.
00:33:13.87\00:33:18.05
But I want you to
kind of turn over to me,
00:33:18.08\00:33:20.92
every scheme that
came off of that damage.
00:33:20.95\00:33:23.83
I want you to-- you know,
00:33:23.86\00:33:26.54
when you talk
about like with your dad.
00:33:26.57\00:33:28.55
I want you maybe, if he
owed you a debt in someway
00:33:28.58\00:33:31.79
and I want you to pay his
debt and then surrender that me.
00:33:31.82\00:33:35.00
When I think, the thing that
00:33:35.03\00:33:36.40
and this is the
part that at times
00:33:36.43\00:33:37.80
when some people hear this,
it's really startling is, okay,
00:33:37.83\00:33:41.99
so you had this event
00:33:42.02\00:33:43.39
and then all these
emotions are going on, right?
00:33:43.42\00:33:45.44
And you get here and it's like
00:33:45.47\00:33:46.84
oh, yeah, but this
is event, this event.
00:33:46.87\00:33:48.97
That event hasn't
happened in 35 years.
00:33:49.00\00:33:52.61
So all these
emotions are from who?
00:33:52.64\00:33:57.09
They're from your self.
00:33:57.12\00:33:58.77
So who's the perpetrator?
You become your own perpetrator.
00:33:58.80\00:34:01.57
You are wounding
yourself, all of those times
00:34:01.60\00:34:05.14
and because that
event, that event is long on.
00:34:05.17\00:34:07.89
It doesn't mean there shouldn't
be forgiveness for the event,
00:34:07.92\00:34:09.77
there absolutely should,
but all that emotional baggage.
00:34:09.80\00:34:13.07
Whose fault is that?
00:34:13.10\00:34:14.47
That's my fault
and that was just--
00:34:14.50\00:34:16.32
Because I'm
believing those lies.
00:34:16.35\00:34:17.72
'Cause I'm believing the lies.
00:34:17.75\00:34:19.12
And it was one of those
things, where all of a sudden,
00:34:19.15\00:34:20.52
it was like, you know,
hold every thought captive.
00:34:20.55\00:34:23.38
Think about things
that are good and positive
00:34:23.41\00:34:25.37
and just and true and pure.
00:34:25.40\00:34:26.77
And how often do I do that?
00:34:26.80\00:34:28.17
Boy, I had struggle with
that one because I'm mad,
00:34:28.20\00:34:30.97
because someone did this.
00:34:31.00\00:34:32.37
Or I'm hurt
because someone did this.
00:34:32.40\00:34:33.77
So I feel, you know,
and so that realization
00:34:33.80\00:34:36.80
and that understanding certainly
00:34:36.83\00:34:38.23
that I'm actually
responsible and can pay.
00:34:38.26\00:34:42.97
And what I love
about, even as you turn
00:34:43.00\00:34:47.18
that over to God and say to God.
00:34:47.21\00:34:49.11
You know what
I'd like to turn over
00:34:49.14\00:34:50.92
not only the original
injury, but all the schemes
00:34:50.95\00:34:54.23
that the devil set up in
my life, from over the years.
00:34:54.26\00:34:56.75
And I want to
surrender all of that to you.
00:34:56.78\00:34:58.99
And any ground
that I gave the devil.
00:34:59.02\00:35:00.96
Because of this-- Territory.
00:35:00.99\00:35:02.36
You know any
territory and any ground.
00:35:02.39\00:35:04.57
And, you know, being able
to say is redeem that stuff.
00:35:04.60\00:35:07.97
You know, we store that stuff.
00:35:08.00\00:35:10.33
And I watched
in-- well in my life,
00:35:10.36\00:35:13.98
but definitely
in your life, too.
00:35:14.01\00:35:15.87
As your wife, I watch God just
00:35:15.90\00:35:17.33
start redeeming
and restoring that.
00:35:17.36\00:35:19.24
I am creating a new or showing
you who he created you to be.
00:35:19.27\00:35:23.97
You are a man of
God, a son, you know,
00:35:24.00\00:35:26.56
you're one of his children.
00:35:26.59\00:35:27.96
You're adopted into
all that kind of stuff.
00:35:27.99\00:35:29.63
And watching as I
give this garbage up,
00:35:29.66\00:35:32.27
that God just says
now let me stand you up
00:35:32.30\00:35:34.10
and show you, who you are.
00:35:34.13\00:35:35.50
Exactly, what's
really been amazing
00:35:35.53\00:35:37.17
and interesting
thing and again biblically,
00:35:37.20\00:35:39.52
I'm the last male
in my family line.
00:35:39.55\00:35:41.48
So, this was a
scary realization.
00:35:41.51\00:35:43.66
I'm like the
priest of the household,
00:35:43.69\00:35:45.06
it's like a no way.
00:35:45.09\00:35:47.25
You're kidding,
you know, it's not me--
00:35:47.28\00:35:48.65
'Cause even in our relationship,
00:35:48.68\00:35:51.30
I think we were
married 20 years or so,
00:35:51.33\00:35:54.99
before you even decided
to look at, who God was.
00:35:55.02\00:35:57.12
Really seriously. Right.
00:35:57.15\00:35:58.68
You know, I mean, I'd come
to belief and stuff certainly
00:35:58.71\00:36:02.03
before that, but
in a real nature.
00:36:02.06\00:36:03.82
But what's been
real interesting,
00:36:03.85\00:36:05.22
as I have used to this
process to take responsibility
00:36:05.25\00:36:10.47
and pay for the pain
and consequences different.
00:36:10.50\00:36:13.08
We'll talk about
this in a minute.
00:36:13.11\00:36:15.51
That the arrogance in my
family did that, the sexual,
00:36:15.54\00:36:19.85
heightened sexual
activity, I don't know
00:36:19.88\00:36:22.02
what you would call this,
00:36:22.05\00:36:23.42
still form of sexual
abuse, it wasn't physical.
00:36:23.45\00:36:25.96
But the pride all
these different things,
00:36:25.99\00:36:29.35
fear that's another
that's come up, is fear.
00:36:29.38\00:36:32.46
And I'm choosing to pay for
that on behalf of my family.
00:36:32.49\00:36:38.33
And what's been amazing to
me and I've been doing this
00:36:38.36\00:36:40.88
and praying this for a while.
00:36:40.91\00:36:42.93
I have a sister who is
several members of my family,
00:36:42.96\00:36:45.81
struggle with alcohol,
but my sister in particular,
00:36:45.84\00:36:47.92
absolute issue with alcohol.
00:36:47.95\00:36:50.28
This summer
reached a crisis point
00:36:50.31\00:36:52.14
and now has been sober
for about six months or so.
00:36:52.17\00:36:56.48
And, you know, I mean,
now when I stop to think,
00:36:56.51\00:36:58.83
is that a result of my prayer.
00:36:58.86\00:37:00.73
You know and Cheri's family
00:37:00.76\00:37:04.60
we've always prayed
for some connection there.
00:37:04.63\00:37:06.55
And this is the
most amazing thing.
00:37:06.58\00:37:08.20
Her mom sent her an email.
00:37:08.23\00:37:11.43
A card last Christmas which was
unheard of, and another thing,
00:37:11.46\00:37:14.12
I wish you'd come visit
and for you that's life.
00:37:14.15\00:37:16.44
That's you. That is like you.
00:37:16.47\00:37:17.84
But let me, I'm
gonna try to explain
00:37:17.87\00:37:21.76
the process in a
way that I think,
00:37:21.79\00:37:23.94
that at least made sense to me.
00:37:23.97\00:37:25.68
That if I was
coming-- let's say,
00:37:25.71\00:37:27.86
I came out on the parking
lot and I ran into your car.
00:37:27.89\00:37:31.00
You're parked right out
front. I ran into your car.
00:37:31.03\00:37:33.78
Then I came in and I
say, you know, I totaled it.
00:37:33.81\00:37:36.40
I am sorry. And
you're like sorry.
00:37:36.43\00:37:39.21
Do you have insurance?
00:37:39.24\00:37:40.61
And I give you an
insurance card, but it's a fake.
00:37:40.64\00:37:44.48
You find out that I'm
a fake. I've no money.
00:37:44.51\00:37:48.07
And you're like wait a minute.
00:37:48.10\00:37:49.47
No, no, no, you
need to pay for this.
00:37:49.50\00:37:51.91
And I say yeah,
whatever. And I'm walking away.
00:37:51.94\00:37:54.94
You decide for the
next five years or so,
00:37:54.97\00:37:57.88
to take me to court,
to try to get some money,
00:37:57.91\00:38:00.33
to try to get some resolution.
00:38:00.36\00:38:01.94
I shouldn't have to fix
my car. You ran into me.
00:38:01.97\00:38:05.54
And so even though,
that's the truth, I owe you.
00:38:05.57\00:38:10.18
Eventually you're
gonna have to say,
00:38:10.21\00:38:12.66
I'm willing to pay
her debt and fix my car
00:38:12.69\00:38:15.58
and move on with my life.
00:38:15.61\00:38:17.22
And I think
sometimes with our history,
00:38:17.25\00:38:19.56
with our abuses and
with all of the stuff.
00:38:19.59\00:38:22.21
There's a point that we
have to say, it is a 100% true.
00:38:22.24\00:38:27.66
Someone owes
you. It wasn't right.
00:38:27.69\00:38:30.97
There's something
you have been given.
00:38:31.00\00:38:33.68
The fact that I was molested
since I was really tiny,
00:38:33.71\00:38:36.37
that wasn't
right, but I have to say,
00:38:36.40\00:38:38.21
you know what, I'm
willing to pay for the pain
00:38:38.24\00:38:40.29
and consequences,
that my dad caused me.
00:38:40.32\00:38:43.29
And I'm willing to pay for that.
00:38:43.32\00:38:44.95
And I asked God
to break any scheme
00:38:44.98\00:38:47.64
that the devil set up
in my life because of that.
00:38:47.67\00:38:50.27
Take back any ground
that I gave the enemy
00:38:50.30\00:38:53.20
because of all of that.
00:38:53.23\00:38:54.87
And, you know,
when I think about
00:38:54.90\00:38:56.57
who ultimately pays
for our sin is Christ.
00:38:56.60\00:38:59.08
So I'm gonna then give
all of that back to him.
00:38:59.11\00:39:02.04
But first I have to
take responsibility,
00:39:02.07\00:39:04.24
I'm willing to
pay for the damage
00:39:04.27\00:39:06.02
that happened in my
family and in my life
00:39:06.05\00:39:08.21
and then I'm gonna
surrender that to God.
00:39:08.24\00:39:10.30
And no longer can the devil
hit me with the same thing.
00:39:10.33\00:39:13.56
I've paid that. I
have given that to God.
00:39:13.59\00:39:16.24
Jesus said that His blood covers
that and he will redeem me.
00:39:16.27\00:39:20.98
You know what
it's really interesting
00:39:21.01\00:39:22.45
because I know it's true.
00:39:22.48\00:39:25.05
I don't have to
carry it anymore.
00:39:25.08\00:39:26.46
And this is a really
important part of this.
00:39:26.49\00:39:28.26
And again because
this guy was an attorney,
00:39:28.29\00:39:31.04
he probably approaches this
way, but I think it is actually
00:39:31.07\00:39:33.31
a really critical
part of this thing.
00:39:33.34\00:39:36.55
If I own a piece of property,
00:39:36.58\00:39:40.45
but let's say I
have a loan on it.
00:39:40.48\00:39:41.85
The bank owns part of that.
00:39:41.88\00:39:43.25
So I want to sell
that piece of property.
00:39:43.28\00:39:44.65
I can't till I
satisfy that lean to the bank.
00:39:44.68\00:39:48.07
All this emotional baggage
that we've carried around
00:39:48.10\00:39:50.91
or something will happen to you.
00:39:50.94\00:39:52.56
And you say,
look, I'm never letting
00:39:52.59\00:39:53.96
anybody do that to me again.
00:39:53.99\00:39:55.36
No one's gonna
push me around again.
00:39:55.39\00:39:56.76
No one's gonna
hurt me like that again.
00:39:56.79\00:39:58.54
Well, unless you were dee
in prayer, over that with God.
00:39:58.57\00:40:01.11
You just actually made
a covenant with the devil.
00:40:01.14\00:40:03.05
You made a vow. A vow.
00:40:03.08\00:40:04.61
Right, not so a
covenant but a vow.
00:40:04.64\00:40:06.23
And that most of us are
walking with all this stuff.
00:40:06.26\00:40:08.36
So now God please
forgive me for this area.
00:40:08.39\00:40:12.31
The devil steps in,
and, hey, wait a minute.
00:40:12.34\00:40:14.65
You actually
don't have a legal right
00:40:14.68\00:40:17.21
to this little piece over here.
00:40:17.24\00:40:18.61
I mean, you can
get this parts fine,
00:40:18.64\00:40:20.01
but remember when
she was eight years old.
00:40:20.04\00:40:21.91
She said, man, no ones
ever gonna do this to me again.
00:40:21.94\00:40:23.62
Because of their
bitterness or their pain--
00:40:23.65\00:40:25.95
Whatever it was. Their anger.
00:40:25.98\00:40:27.44
And so the part
about, when we say
00:40:27.47\00:40:30.18
I choose to pay for
the pain and consequences.
00:40:30.21\00:40:33.32
I essentially now, I'm taking
ownership for all that stuff,
00:40:33.35\00:40:37.44
the event itself,
all the emotional baggage
00:40:37.47\00:40:39.87
that I've been carrying and
generating in my whole life,
00:40:39.90\00:40:42.97
which really is my fault anyway.
00:40:43.00\00:40:45.44
I'm actually gonna,
okay-- You're right.
00:40:45.47\00:40:47.90
You know what, this is my fault.
00:40:47.93\00:40:49.38
I'm gonna clean this
00:40:49.41\00:40:51.67
and my responsibility,
let me phrase that.
00:40:51.70\00:40:53.33
My responsibility
now that I own it.
00:40:53.36\00:40:56.26
Now I'm free to give it away,
but if I don't own it first
00:40:56.29\00:41:00.38
legally, it's called what?
00:41:00.41\00:41:01.78
Criminal interference?
00:41:01.81\00:41:03.18
Criminal
interference is what Joe said?
00:41:03.21\00:41:04.58
That the legal
term. It's very attorney.
00:41:04.61\00:41:05.98
And that's--the Bible is
considered what a covenant,
00:41:06.01\00:41:08.22
a binding
agreement between us and God.
00:41:08.25\00:41:10.71
And there's all
kinds of things in there
00:41:10.74\00:41:12.43
that really our entire
courts of law are based upon,
00:41:12.46\00:41:15.84
the biblical principles.
00:41:15.87\00:41:17.65
And so, you know when we
started to understand it--
00:41:17.68\00:41:21.41
And God says I freely take it.
00:41:21.44\00:41:23.05
Yeah. I want to take it.
00:41:23.08\00:41:24.47
He wants to take
it. I died for that.
00:41:24.50\00:41:25.94
But we have to own. You
can carry it, if you want.
00:41:25.97\00:41:27.93
But it's too heavy for you.
00:41:27.96\00:41:29.33
Exactly. But--
It will destroy you.
00:41:29.36\00:41:30.73
We have to own it, in
order to unhook Satan,
00:41:30.76\00:41:33.74
from all of
those different areas.
00:41:33.77\00:41:35.14
And so someone says, and there
are some things in our life
00:41:35.17\00:41:37.74
I think that are really too
personal, too ugly or whatever.
00:41:37.77\00:41:41.56
And I don't have to
say that to everybody.
00:41:41.59\00:41:43.81
I can just say it to God.
00:41:43.84\00:41:45.21
God forgive me and you
know the stuff that I deal with.
00:41:45.24\00:41:48.11
But I think that,
there's a thing in the Bible
00:41:48.14\00:41:50.15
that I think is
just, God is so brilliant.
00:41:50.18\00:41:53.39
Confess your
sins one to another.
00:41:53.42\00:41:55.68
Pray for each other so
that you may be healed.
00:41:55.71\00:41:57.99
I mean, there's that
really interesting thing
00:41:58.02\00:42:01.39
that He just says that there's
something about the devil
00:42:01.42\00:42:05.27
that he just keeps us in secret.
00:42:05.30\00:42:06.79
He keeps us bound up.
He keeps us locked up.
00:42:06.82\00:42:10.05
And God says don't
do that for yourself.
00:42:10.08\00:42:12.25
You know, I hope that
this was helpful to you.
00:42:12.28\00:42:16.49
Definitely, going through this
00:42:16.52\00:42:17.89
with Brad and I,
was helpful to me.
00:42:17.92\00:42:19.29
But there is nothing
that you can hold on,
00:42:19.32\00:42:22.10
all of that ugly
stuff, all of that sin,
00:42:22.13\00:42:24.02
if you hold on to it,
it's going to destroy you.
00:42:24.05\00:42:26.55
And what God
says as you know what,
00:42:26.58\00:42:28.02
you handed it all to
me and I will fix it.
00:42:28.05\00:42:30.88
I will give you
life and life abundantly
00:42:30.91\00:42:33.26
all of that kind of stuff.
00:42:33.29\00:42:34.70
And this is the key forgiveness,
00:42:34.73\00:42:37.12
a lot of people
in your life to heal.
00:42:37.15\00:42:39.52
Heal yourself.
Turn it over to God.
00:42:39.55\00:42:41.81
And don't carry it anymore.
Really don't carry it anymore.
00:42:41.84\00:42:45.84
And for our hundredth
program, I want you to hear
00:42:45.87\00:42:48.77
that more than you
hear anything else.
00:42:48.80\00:42:50.48
Unburden yourself.
00:42:50.51\00:42:51.88
That there is a transformation
that God wants for us.
00:42:51.91\00:42:54.62
That is real. It is cool.
00:42:54.65\00:42:57.27
And it's different than
anything that we've known.
00:42:57.30\00:42:59.46
And the world
cannot give it, only God.
00:42:59.49\00:43:02.79
We're gonna take a break.
00:43:02.82\00:43:04.19
We're gonna come back
00:43:04.22\00:43:05.59
and I'm gonna introduce
you to the entire crew.
00:43:05.62\00:43:07.69
Well, maybe not the
entire crew, but most of us.
00:43:07.72\00:43:10.12
We gonna have cake.
We're gonna celebrate.
00:43:10.15\00:43:12.29
And I just got to say
that I can't thank anybody,
00:43:12.32\00:43:14.47
but you for this
hundredth season.
00:43:14.50\00:43:17.00
God bless. We'll be right back.
00:43:17.03\00:43:19.27