Welcome back, this is
my favorite segment where
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I get to introduce you
to some friends of mine.
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You get to see in someone
else's life what God is doing.
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It's just my favorite part.
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So I want to introduce
you to Max Rivera, Max I want
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to say thank you so much
for being on the program.
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You're welcome,
thank you for inviting me.
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The first time I saw you
was that my church in Idaho
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and I remember coming in
and I don't even know what I
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expected, I knew that someone
was coming in to do a testimony,
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and I love testimonies,
but I didn't realize that there
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was gone be somebody
from my own background, right?
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As I was watching you,
as you were telling your
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testimony I literally
wanted to stand on the chair
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and just holler up to
heaven and say I love you Max.
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I remember as you were
talking, alright go on,
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come on, and I
couldn't even shut up.
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So I want you to just
tell us, where did you come
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from and how did you meet
God, and why are you here?
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Well by 19 years old I
was charged and convicted
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with 4 felony counts
for aggravated assault.
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In those situations you
don't get their overnight,
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there is
definitely a lot of drama that
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happened before then.
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By 19- by 19 years
old - when I think about
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a 19 year-old.
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Every once in a while
to you stop and look at a
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19-year-old and
think I was a baby?
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Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.
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That is the time when you
were thinking about college,
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maybe your in college, you're
thinking about a career, or
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maybe a family, while I was
thinking about wrong things.
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It started young, my dad, he
was connected to the Mafia so
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there were a lot of
mafia-ism, as we would call it.
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Hit men, a lot of abusers
and drug users and everything
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you can think of in
and through our house.
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So as a kid you watch
this happen and what do
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you want to do -
role models - and you want
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to be exactly like them.
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It's tragic, as a kid
you can't discern right from
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wrong, you are looking
for someone to give you
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direction and that was the
direction that was handed me.
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I really worked
hard to fill those shoes.
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For people who don't
know that, what is really
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interesting to me about
that kind of environment,
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is even as a little tiny
kid, when you start playing
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somebody they are like,
look at that, good for you.
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And do you know what I
mean, so it is even people love
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the fact that maybe if
you want drink a beer, or you
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want to play somebody,
or start lying or what ever,
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it's like it's not
disciplined, it is looked at as
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you're going to be
good, you're going to be fine.
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Max: right! That's the
thing, you are encouraged
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within the realm that you
live in through the people
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that you are close to.
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Here's the marijuana,
here's the alcohol, and all
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that stuff is introduced
so it is not like you have
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to go far to find it - right!
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In the middle of all of
what I saw, I saw abuse,
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I was abused, I
learned how to abuse and those
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of you who have been
there and done that you know
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what I am talking about.
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It was very corrupt,
but I didn't understand it.
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I thought it was normal living.
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As you go through some things,
some things hurt you more
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than others, so you
learn how to harden your heart.
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You learn how to isolate
yourself and distance yourself
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from people, to not
allow yourself to be emotional
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about certain things
because you know you are trying
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to withstand what ever
wins, but what that ends up
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doing is preparing you
for your wins and you know how
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hide those things in your heart.
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So I became real hard,
and learned how to fight.
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Cheri: Give somebody an
age thing because I think
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sometimes we think
of it older than it is.
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You are learning
this at what ages?
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Max: at 7, 8, 9, my mom
was 21 years old, and she had 6
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of us kids and she was
trying to figure out life
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as a 21-year-old.
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My dad went to prison
and it is not long before the
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street becomes your influence.
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It was around that age
where I started to realize
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that influence as I look
back, experienced that abuse
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by people I trusted.
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It is hard because you
are looking to people again
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for direction, it's
just hard, but through those
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times, through
that younger period.
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I was a very inward
person and it seem like it might
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have been okay for
me to be by myself.
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People left me alone
and I must have been an easy
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target for
somebody who is left alone.
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But as I grew I learned
how to use women and played
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the people I was
around, the only time they were
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important to me was when
they had something to give me.
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It was hard because I
would have people on their
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knees, whether it
was a guy or girl,
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begging for
attention or whatever.
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I loved to inflict that
kind of pain, it was hard to
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believe that was that I
had become that kind of person
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but again I grew up around
this and saw contracts of people
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who were supposed to be
killed, or in line to be killed.
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My dads wallet, I remember
nights where people would
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knock on our door
pleading for their life to get
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some contract
canceled, and my dad would leave
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to go deal with that.
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You see all these things
growing up and again you want
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to shadow them
and do what they do.
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Cheri: I want to be that.
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Max: I did, so here I
am on the streets trying to
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make a name, to inflict
fear, and people loving the
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chance to knock
somebody out, to see if with one
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punch, watch their eyes
roll in the back of their head,
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fall in some isle of
a store, or in Taco Bell
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or where ever it would be.
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But something in my
heart, I know the Lord was
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working even then,
because some to my heart would
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always feel remorse
after I saw the person laying
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there in his blood.
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I always knew that it was
wrong, I knew it was wrong
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but I would still do it.
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It was one of those
things where it is like harden
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your heart again, get
you through this again.
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So going through that,
when you do something enough
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you get good at it and so
I used that to my advantage.
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By 19 I was facing 80
years in prison, I realized that
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this is something
wrong, something happened
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and I'm in trouble.
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I knew that the way that
I was arrested, I had just
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gotten back from
California and was in a
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new car and had a
pocket full of money,
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a cupboard full of drugs.
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I had did that run from
California back to Boise
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and I sat there in front
of my yard and was on the
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phone with the guy and
there was somebody installing
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a stereo in my car.
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I'm thinking I've
made it, this is what life
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is about for a street kid.
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I sat there and was looking
at my car being worked on
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and looked on the floor
and noticed a moving van coming
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and pulled in front of
our house and I just thought
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somebody was getting furniture.
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Look down and looked up
and within seconds my yard
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was full of military men
with assault rifles, everybody
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had them pointing at us.
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My parents were hog-tied,
my sister was screaming
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saying, listen to
what they are telling you,
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they are going to kill us.
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It was real dramatic and
just seeing my family have
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to go through that
because of something I did.
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There were officers on the
roof, my cousins jumped the
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fence and they were
caught on the other side.
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I mean it was really
hard because we had left two
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men to die under a
bridge and thought we had
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gotten away with it.
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These mean I remember the
emotion that I had watching
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these men die, it was
just one of those things, they
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didn't die by God's
grace, but watching them bleed,
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it was one of those things
where it didn't affect me.
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I knew there was some
kind of evil presence within me
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that allowed me to
smile while somebody
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was in pain like that.
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Nobody should have to deal
with that kind of pain, but
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that was why we was there
and we thought we got away
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with it, but here we go
with the SWAT team and half
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the National
Guard had picked us up.
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I was sitting in this cell,
high on Meth and full of alcohol
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knowing that the devil's
presence was in that cell.
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It was just one of those
things where I realized that
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I messed up, I
need to call on God.
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Cheri: when you say
that, that I felt the Devil
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himself, in my cell.
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I felt the demonic influence.
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I think people that are
more normal and are going to
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church, even
though they speak on that.
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They know that is a
biblical thing, that there is an
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evil side, is that I
think unless you have been in
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that lifestyle you really
don't know how real that is.
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Max: you know the thing is
because I have been through
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experiences where I
didn't, for whatever reason
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I didn't feel it.
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I have been shot at,
we were at a park one time
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were these guys put a
bullet in a friend of mine
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and we caught him and he
was sitting there bleeding
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and we threw him in a
car and headed straight
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towards these guys.
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As soon as we turn
around I'm thinking all of us
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are going to die
because there is about 5 guys
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pointing guns at us.
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As soon as we turn around
and they shoot again so it
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is like the Fourth of July
and it hits again my friend,
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who is like cousin but
he hit him again in the head
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and it blew out a piece
of his skull right here.
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A chunk of skin and
everything ended up on the back
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head rest, so I saw that.
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I stabbed people, I
shot people there was nothing
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that made me feel that
like this time I felt when
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I was sitting in that cell.
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It was one of those
things that I knew of a God,
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I knew to respect the
name of God because I grew up
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with a Catholic
background, so I called Him.
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I said, God I'm in trouble,
but it was like a Jonah prayer.
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Please I'm sorry for the
circumstances get me away
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from this, but my heart
hadn't changed and so I was
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sitting there
asking God to help me.
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He knew that it was time
but he wasn't going to release
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me and I was sitting there
in a cell with capital crime
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inmates, the robbers, the
rapers, the murderers, they
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are all sitting on this
tier and I am 19 years old.
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As big as I am I shouldn't
feel intimidated by that,
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but I was 120
pounds, I'm not a big guy and
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these guys were huge.
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When you said that I
thought he's not that big
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Charlie get up
here - no kidding!
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It is funny because even
when I went to prison people
00:11:26.87\00:11:31.26
always looked for some huge guy.
00:11:31.29\00:11:34.93
My first day of prison a
huge officer said, Max Rivera,
00:11:34.96\00:11:40.32
and I looked and I'm just
this little guy waving his
00:11:40.35\00:11:44.47
hand, and he said,
you are Max Rivera?
00:11:44.50\00:11:48.14
He said we supposed to
expect some things from you in
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this prison, I said I
don't know what you are talking
00:11:51.50\00:11:53.67
about, and he said,
yeah, right get in line.
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But I've always had
that, you know dynamite comes
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in small packages and I
think an evil heart is just
00:11:59.88\00:12:02.33
unpredictable, you know
it is really unpredictable.
00:12:02.36\00:12:05.78
Cheri: You know when you
have that much pain and that
00:12:05.81\00:12:07.54
much anger and where you
have hardened your heart to
00:12:07.57\00:12:10.58
that point that
you can do anything.
00:12:10.61\00:12:12.25
Max: You really can, you
really can and the worst person
00:12:12.28\00:12:14.52
to me is somebody who
doesn't care, and I didn't care.
00:12:14.55\00:12:17.60
I didn't care about consequences
I didn't think about
00:12:17.63\00:12:20.47
them, it was just the place
where I repented and came to
00:12:20.50\00:12:28.04
that place where I knew
I had done something wrong.
00:12:28.07\00:12:31.42
But even still there were
some things I had to work out.
00:12:31.45\00:12:35.03
Even after I confessed
and I knew I was in the mercy
00:12:35.06\00:12:38.56
seat and I wanted to change
and do some different with
00:12:38.59\00:12:40.97
my life, even still you
have the memories of all this
00:12:41.00\00:12:44.64
junk still with you.
00:12:44.67\00:12:45.96
Cheri: so wait, wait
before you even go there,
00:12:45.99\00:12:48.12
because you were
sitting there calling out to God
00:12:48.15\00:12:50.49
but knowing that I
haven't had that heart change.
00:12:50.52\00:12:52.01
It sounds like at one point
that heart change happened,
00:12:52.04\00:12:55.84
so what got you to the
point where I actually know
00:12:55.87\00:13:00.36
that I need it? I
want it to change.
00:13:00.39\00:13:03.50
Well I know that the
Lord, He gives us a conscious
00:13:03.53\00:13:09.53
and we have to ignore
it long enough before it
00:13:09.56\00:13:11.66
doesn't work for us anymore.
00:13:11.69\00:13:13.18
That Holy Spirit, you
learn to ignore it and not
00:13:13.21\00:13:19.69
listen to it so there
are those points where
00:13:19.72\00:13:21.83
you are on the mercy seat.
00:13:21.86\00:13:23.23
Cheri: you just want to
warn people that are watching
00:13:23.26\00:13:25.52
is don't ignore it,
because you literally sever your
00:13:25.55\00:13:28.19
own conscience and
the Holy Spirit can not,
00:13:28.22\00:13:29.98
after a while, get through
to you and that is dangerous.
00:13:30.01\00:13:32.96
I do think that there is
something in us that knows
00:13:32.99\00:13:36.21
right and wrong, but you
have to ignore again the Holy
00:13:36.24\00:13:39.92
Spirit, you have to ignore
your conscience long enough
00:13:39.95\00:13:41.99
to wear that voice is no
longer of any profit for you.
00:13:42.02\00:13:46.60
I was sitting in that
cell and I heard that, and I
00:13:46.63\00:13:50.37
thought Lord I do want
to change, but again it was
00:13:50.40\00:13:53.38
because of my situation.
00:13:53.41\00:13:54.65
I just wanted
to get out of jail.
00:13:54.68\00:13:55.86
I didn't want to be
one of these prisoners with
00:13:55.89\00:13:58.77
their name, or with their
number across their chest.
00:13:58.80\00:14:01.47
I just didn't want that
and I had many family members,
00:14:01.50\00:14:04.53
friends who went down
that line, and I experienced
00:14:04.56\00:14:07.53
that early as an
adult, charged as an adult
00:14:07.56\00:14:12.06
at 17 years of age
and went through the
00:14:12.09\00:14:15.80
California jail system.
00:14:15.83\00:14:16.94
I'll tell you what they
run that, it's a real scary
00:14:16.97\00:14:20.03
place for a 17-year-old,
and I'm a 120 pounds going
00:14:20.06\00:14:24.09
into an adult prison.
00:14:24.12\00:14:26.03
You have got
these full-grown men
00:14:26.06\00:14:29.16
- that also don't care.
00:14:29.19\00:14:31.18
Max: That also don't care
and I've heard it said in a
00:14:31.21\00:14:34.89
poem, I read it while I was in
prison, you've got the arm pit
00:14:34.92\00:14:37.14
of society, you know
there's some good guys in there,
00:14:37.17\00:14:40.49
there's some great people
and there and you just want
00:14:40.52\00:14:42.48
to wrap your arms around
them believe the best and know
00:14:42.51\00:14:44.91
that they are good, but
there is a devil and he messes
00:14:44.94\00:14:49.28
with their mind, and for
those who follow his voice
00:14:49.31\00:14:52.71
can do real
unpredictable things.
00:14:52.74\00:14:54.97
You are in there with
these men and sitting there
00:14:55.00\00:14:57.87
trying to be a man at 17
and not drop the soap because
00:14:57.90\00:15:02.78
you are in a shower
with a bunch of men naked and
00:15:02.81\00:15:05.28
you don't want nobody
messing with you in anyway.
00:15:05.31\00:15:07.69
I had the influence of my
dad and as soon as I walked
00:15:07.72\00:15:12.06
in I was handed groceries,
I was handed my clothes,
00:15:12.09\00:15:15.43
and I was handed extra things.
00:15:15.46\00:15:16.99
Cheri: because
they knew your father.
00:15:17.02\00:15:19.71
Yeah and they said my name
was the same, I had my dad's
00:15:19.74\00:15:22.94
name so it wasn't hard
for them to figure that out.
00:15:22.97\00:15:26.68
They said if anybody
gives you any trouble you let me
00:15:26.71\00:15:31.94
know and we will
take care of for you.
00:15:31.97\00:15:33.80
That was like, I'm a
man, I'm 17 years old,
00:15:33.83\00:15:39.51
but I wasn't a man, I was a boy
trying to play in a man's world.
00:15:39.54\00:15:45.18
I remember some guys took
my boots and they were some
00:15:45.21\00:15:49.59
big, big guys and I
knew I would be like a fly on
00:15:49.62\00:15:55.61
their shoulder, I wasn't a
big guy in any way compared
00:15:55.64\00:15:59.71
to these 300 pound men
and they stole my boots.
00:15:59.74\00:16:03.42
I was trying to figure
out how do you take care of
00:16:03.45\00:16:06.52
6 guys, how do you beat
up 6 guys, I have nothing
00:16:06.55\00:16:11.24
to defend myself?
00:16:11.27\00:16:12.58
Cheri: but you know
it's so crazy and I love when
00:16:12.61\00:16:14.40
you say that because we
get so crazy that that is our
00:16:14.43\00:16:16.28
first thought, not that
I should run, it's like how
00:16:16.31\00:16:20.05
am I going to do this?,
what am I going to pick up,
00:16:20.08\00:16:21.77
what weapons are around me?
00:16:21.80\00:16:23.40
And that is what a lot
of people don't understand,
00:16:23.43\00:16:26.01
it doesn't matter your
size when you get that crazy,
00:16:26.04\00:16:28.29
I'm going to take you
out and it may not be today,
00:16:28.32\00:16:30.72
but I will figure a way.
00:16:30.75\00:16:32.46
And that is where you
were at, even in prison.
00:16:32.49\00:16:34.98
And the sad part about
it is I had a cousin there
00:16:35.01\00:16:37.85
who was their size and
who came in and had heard
00:16:37.88\00:16:41.88
what happened to my
shoes, because the word travels,
00:16:41.91\00:16:44.44
and he came with me and
said, hey what's gone on?
00:16:44.47\00:16:47.31
I said nothing I've got it
taken care of, sure, yeah right!
00:16:47.34\00:16:49.59
I had nothing taken
care of, it was still going
00:16:49.62\00:16:52.32
through my mind of
what I'm going to do.
00:16:52.35\00:16:53.92
But he said is it
these guys after you?
00:16:53.95\00:16:58.67
I said yeah.
00:16:58.70\00:17:01.00
He grabbed these cement
tables that are filled with
00:17:01.03\00:17:03.77
cement and are
not meant to move.
00:17:03.80\00:17:05.22
He grabbed that table
and lifted it and picked them
00:17:05.25\00:17:08.06
up and they all fell to
the side and said man we don't
00:17:08.09\00:17:10.01
got little brother
shoes, leave us alone, we don't
00:17:10.04\00:17:12.21
want any trouble, we
don't have little man shoes.
00:17:12.24\00:17:16.15
He told those shoes
better be back by the end of the
00:17:16.18\00:17:19.99
evening and sure
enough they were.
00:17:20.02\00:17:21.36
But what that did to me
was as a 17-year-old, I want
00:17:21.39\00:17:25.13
to be like that - exactly!
00:17:25.16\00:17:26.64
Cheri: Exactly how want
that much power, because I have
00:17:26.67\00:17:28.74
been powerless I want
that power - exactly, exactly.
00:17:28.77\00:17:31.73
Max: so getting out of
jail you put when you put wind
00:17:31.76\00:17:36.96
in your chest and walk
around and there was a point
00:17:36.99\00:17:38.76
where I was
fighting twice a week.
00:17:38.79\00:17:40.20
I was just looking for
anybody to cross me in any way.
00:17:40.23\00:17:43.37
So all that got me into a
situation where I realized
00:17:43.40\00:17:51.89
what I wanted to build
this whole image that I wanted
00:17:51.92\00:17:55.84
to be wasn't
really what I wanted.
00:17:55.87\00:17:57.76
These men who were full-grown,
tattooed from here to here,
00:17:57.79\00:18:01.02
are on the mercy seat
too and they are recognizing
00:18:01.05\00:18:04.15
that they are powerless.
00:18:04.18\00:18:05.88
All this manhood that you
think you had, now it is Chow
00:18:05.91\00:18:10.70
time, now you can only
have two socks, a pair one suit,
00:18:10.73\00:18:16.26
you are being told everything
so you lose all control
00:18:16.29\00:18:18.93
you thought you had.
00:18:18.96\00:18:20.04
Cheri: went to get up,
went to go to bed, what to
00:18:20.07\00:18:23.84
think, what to say.
00:18:23.87\00:18:25.39
Max: yeah and I'm sitting
here, I get to the prison
00:18:25.42\00:18:27.71
and I'm going through
the process where they are
00:18:27.74\00:18:31.29
analyzing where they are
going to put you in the prison.
00:18:31.32\00:18:33.29
About 3 in the morning I
get this knock on the door
00:18:33.32\00:18:36.26
and I am looking like
it must be medical time and
00:18:36.29\00:18:39.31
they are going to check
me, this is the procedure so
00:18:39.34\00:18:41.29
I just get up
and put my jacket on.
00:18:41.32\00:18:43.73
They said, take your
jacket off, take a shoes off,
00:18:43.76\00:18:46.73
and I thought man there
something wrong and you listen
00:18:46.76\00:18:50.64
when people have guns because
their was 3 or 4 of them.
00:18:50.67\00:18:53.78
I'm sitting there watching
them and putting my hand
00:18:53.81\00:18:57.75
behind my back as
they are cuffing me.
00:18:57.78\00:19:01.08
I've watched too many
movies honestly, I am thinking
00:19:01.11\00:19:02.91
they are going to beat
me up, this is going to get
00:19:02.94\00:19:05.23
real ugly should I try
to fight them here while
00:19:05.26\00:19:07.01
there's only a few of them.
00:19:07.04\00:19:08.39
I mean you just get this
crazy mind and I went to the
00:19:08.42\00:19:13.43
holes were they took me.
00:19:13.46\00:19:14.70
Cheri: now you don't get
it you have it, it's yours.
00:19:14.73\00:19:16.68
Max: sometimes I still
have it, but I sat in this cell
00:19:16.71\00:19:21.67
thinking what my going to
do here, but I sat in that
00:19:21.70\00:19:25.60
same cell with the same
clothes on for two weeks and
00:19:25.63\00:19:27.81
ended up being checked
into that same cell as an
00:19:27.84\00:19:30.74
Administrate
Segregation Inmate for a year.
00:19:30.77\00:19:36.91
So I stayed in this
little hole 24 hours a day,
00:19:36.94\00:19:40.59
7 days a week,
because of my history.
00:19:40.62\00:19:43.02
30 minutes to an hour they
let you out, some days where
00:19:43.05\00:19:48.90
you can go on
walk these dog kennels.
00:19:48.93\00:19:51.87
And they are depressing,
because everybody in there
00:19:51.90\00:19:54.13
are on Thorazine because
they are too crazy and can't
00:19:54.16\00:19:57.38
handle that kind of confinement.
00:19:57.41\00:19:58.86
So they are beating on
walls and these doctors come in
00:19:58.89\00:20:01.13
and they inject them with
Thorazine to mellow them out.
00:20:01.16\00:20:04.56
So it is real depressing,
you are sitting in this dog
00:20:04.59\00:20:07.84
kennel and the only
thing you can see is the sky,
00:20:07.87\00:20:09.66
because the walls
are too high for you
00:20:09.69\00:20:10.96
to see anything else.
00:20:10.99\00:20:12.07
I remember being in that
kennel where this guy had
00:20:12.10\00:20:18.28
been arrested for drugs,
big, big guy jumped on the
00:20:18.31\00:20:21.22
fence and just starts
shaking the fence and looking
00:20:21.25\00:20:26.38
at me and growling.
00:20:26.41\00:20:27.98
I mean he was just part
animal, he might have been
00:20:28.01\00:20:29.89
all animal, but I
looked at him and thought what
00:20:29.92\00:20:33.67
are you trying
to do with my head.
00:20:33.70\00:20:34.99
He was trying to instill
fear, is what he was trying
00:20:35.02\00:20:37.45
to do, and he's like are
you scared of me and I said
00:20:37.48\00:20:40.38
the only thing I'm
scared of is your face.
00:20:40.41\00:20:42.19
You are a very ugly
person, it was wrong for me to
00:20:42.22\00:20:46.32
say but that is what I'm
telling you, I repented but
00:20:46.35\00:20:48.14
my heart was still evil.
00:20:48.17\00:20:49.45
I was still if somebody
does this I will do that and
00:20:49.48\00:20:53.50
I wasn't thinking like a
Christian because God had
00:20:53.53\00:20:56.48
not renewed my heart.
00:20:56.51\00:20:57.74
I hadn't read enough of
the word for Him to do that.
00:20:57.77\00:21:00.81
But that was a very freeing time
that year was a freeing time
00:21:00.84\00:21:06.84
because I had a chance
to just read the word and
00:21:06.87\00:21:09.31
get myself a little
routine to keep me sane.
00:21:09.34\00:21:11.75
Because when you are in
a little cell where all you
00:21:11.78\00:21:14.75
have is a bed and a
toilet that you wash
00:21:14.78\00:21:17.45
your clothes in.
00:21:17.48\00:21:18.53
Cheri: so how did you
get the Bible, had somebody
00:21:18.56\00:21:20.72
brought it in?
00:21:20.75\00:21:21.78
It was one of those free
on the inside Bibles that
00:21:21.81\00:21:25.27
became a very dirty
Bible, but the dirtier this is,
00:21:25.30\00:21:29.82
the cleaner this is so it
really worked and the Lord
00:21:29.85\00:21:34.49
used it as a ruler to
help me understand right and
00:21:34.52\00:21:38.35
wrong, what I should
and shouldn't be doing,
00:21:38.38\00:21:40.31
how I should think.
00:21:40.34\00:21:41.76
By far I am not perfect
in any way, there are days
00:21:41.79\00:21:45.94
that I wake up and I'm
like man that's the old man,
00:21:45.97\00:21:48.73
what happened,
where did that come from?
00:21:48.76\00:21:51.28
So I get to work out
my salvation with fear and
00:21:51.31\00:21:54.52
trembling every day.
00:21:54.55\00:21:56.12
As you were, and I'm just asking
because this has been my take
00:21:56.15\00:22:01.28
on it, that when you
were in the cell and reading
00:22:01.31\00:22:03.18
the Bible didn't you
come to some places where you
00:22:03.21\00:22:05.33
just think really?
00:22:05.36\00:22:07.15
You know just like the
Bible asks you to reevaluate
00:22:07.18\00:22:10.68
everything, honesty
and integrity, who you are,
00:22:10.71\00:22:13.93
who God is, and your
response to that, and what
00:22:13.96\00:22:17.01
love is an even
that concept of love.
00:22:17.04\00:22:19.10
It sounds like you
never had it and so how do you
00:22:19.13\00:22:22.87
even look at the word
and get some kind of meaning
00:22:22.90\00:22:25.28
around that word?
00:22:25.31\00:22:26.68
Well you know the
funny thing is that, again as
00:22:26.71\00:22:30.42
a Catholic I
displayed the Bible in my room,
00:22:30.45\00:22:32.56
it was like a cross.
00:22:32.59\00:22:34.08
You know you wanted some
kind of protection in your
00:22:34.11\00:22:36.65
room, you were doing
very bad things in that room,
00:22:36.68\00:22:39.53
but for whatever reason
you just knew you had the
00:22:39.56\00:22:41.42
Bible close enough that
you were good in God's eyes.
00:22:41.45\00:22:44.16
But I remember reading
Matthew, and I thought if you
00:22:44.19\00:22:47.92
ever start reading you
start from the beginning is
00:22:47.95\00:22:50.53
what you think, so
that is what I did.
00:22:50.56\00:22:52.93
I thought begat this,
begat that, first of all I
00:22:52.96\00:22:55.81
don't even know what
begat means so how my supposed
00:22:55.84\00:22:58.50
to understand this thing,
whatever it is this Bible?
00:22:58.53\00:23:02.96
So I would always
stop, but when I got past the
00:23:02.99\00:23:06.75
begats and read the
word I was like why wouldn't
00:23:06.78\00:23:09.98
somebody want to read this?
00:23:10.01\00:23:11.80
Man this is amazing it
deals right with your life.
00:23:11.83\00:23:15.36
It is almost as if it
was written by a God, I mean
00:23:15.39\00:23:18.09
it's amazing,
it's just so perfect
00:23:18.12\00:23:22.28
- this might be true.
00:23:22.31\00:23:24.57
No kidding and that's
kind of how was, I just
00:23:24.60\00:23:26.96
really fell in love
with the word and I really
00:23:26.99\00:23:30.03
enjoyed just figuring
out who Jesus was through
00:23:30.06\00:23:34.85
what He did in people's lives.
00:23:34.88\00:23:36.39
The power that is in
His word is amazing and I
00:23:36.42\00:23:39.56
remember just being
in that little cell, just
00:23:39.59\00:23:42.18
proclaiming His word
out loud, singing and not
00:23:42.21\00:23:44.35
even knowing
anything about any of that.
00:23:44.38\00:23:45.83
Just knowing that's
what I felt like I should do.
00:23:45.86\00:23:48.59
Through that God
gave me a new heart.
00:23:48.62\00:23:51.35
I remember a
conversation with my brother,
00:23:51.38\00:23:53.15
because they gave me
this phone where I could call,
00:23:53.18\00:23:56.47
this cordless phone and I
sat there and called my family.
00:23:56.50\00:23:59.99
Of course they are
partying and doing their thing.
00:24:00.02\00:24:01.79
My brother said, how
is it going in there?
00:24:01.82\00:24:06.15
My uncle who is done a lot of
time said you are in the worst
00:24:06.18\00:24:11.68
part of the
prison, are you okay?
00:24:11.71\00:24:15.17
I said man I am
experiencing so much freedom,
00:24:15.20\00:24:19.34
I have never felt so
free on the inside of me.
00:24:19.37\00:24:22.08
And he said, Kato you
don't have to lie to me,
00:24:22.11\00:24:25.38
I know that it is hard
in there and I said listen
00:24:25.41\00:24:29.45
Menno, when we hang up this
phone, you could go on with life
00:24:29.48\00:24:32.80
When I am in here I have
to come back to this cell,
00:24:32.83\00:24:37.65
so by you telling me I'm
in 4 walls and I can't leave,
00:24:37.68\00:24:41.53
this miserable
hardest part, don't do that.
00:24:41.56\00:24:44.65
But honestly I said the
Lord, I had drew a picture
00:24:44.68\00:24:51.25
and I put it on the wall
with a bunch of scriptures
00:24:51.28\00:24:53.17
and the word just
brought a lot of peace.
00:24:53.20\00:24:57.60
You can't purchase
that, it's not on a menu at a
00:24:57.63\00:24:59.95
restaurant, you know
it's not something you can
00:24:59.98\00:25:02.05
find anywhere, you
have to get it by being
00:25:02.08\00:25:04.90
right in your heart.
00:25:04.93\00:25:07.80
God's Word was
renewing my mind - so I want to
00:25:07.83\00:25:11.55
ask you, there are
couple things, would you like to
00:25:11.58\00:25:15.18
introduce Kerry at
this time, or can you ask,
00:25:15.21\00:25:17.14
can we ask you why
you got out of jail?
00:25:17.17\00:25:19.41
Oh I would love to
introduce Kerry, gosh, you know
00:25:19.44\00:25:22.99
yes! I would love
to introduce Kerry.
00:25:23.02\00:25:26.26
I would like to say
that the Bible says the truth
00:25:26.29\00:25:29.70
will set you free.
00:25:29.73\00:25:30.76
I will race through my time
in prison and I'm sitting at the
00:25:30.79\00:25:34.70
parole board through
that 7 years, or through that
00:25:34.73\00:25:38.58
80 years that I was
facing, I only got 7 years and
00:25:38.61\00:25:41.67
only had to spend 3.
00:25:41.70\00:25:43.28
God's grace, it's
amazing I'm sitting here in this
00:25:43.31\00:25:46.07
parole hearing and these
guys are telling me how bad
00:25:46.10\00:25:50.80
of a person I am and how
releasing me is not going to
00:25:50.83\00:25:53.17
keep the streets safe
and that is their job.
00:25:53.20\00:25:55.82
I just confessed that
it was my fault I am sorry,
00:25:55.85\00:25:58.98
I had a choice.
00:25:59.01\00:26:00.32
They said when you were
in front of the judge before
00:26:00.35\00:26:03.45
it wasn't your
fault, now it's your fault?
00:26:03.48\00:26:05.76
What's your story Max?
00:26:05.79\00:26:07.35
I said it's my fault, I
had a choice and I made the
00:26:07.38\00:26:12.35
wrong choice, and those
guys had a heart of stone and
00:26:12.38\00:26:16.81
I just knew, but I knew I
had to be honest - exactly.
00:26:16.84\00:26:21.53
They walked out of the
room and I looked back and
00:26:21.56\00:26:24.50
I see my family and
they are just crying like it
00:26:24.53\00:26:26.34
was last time we
are going to see him for
00:26:26.37\00:26:28.22
however many other years.
00:26:28.25\00:26:29.78
They came back and
looked at me and said, young man
00:26:29.81\00:26:35.93
pack your bags, you are
going to be leaving in 3 months.
00:26:35.96\00:26:40.36
Get ready you will
be leaving in 3 months.
00:26:40.39\00:26:42.36
Could you just say to me,
I can hear the Holy Spirit
00:26:42.39\00:26:47.41
saying don't forget I'm
right with you, I'm doing this
00:26:47.44\00:26:51.42
for you, and with you.
00:26:51.45\00:26:53.04
So when I was released,
when I was released I was on
00:26:53.07\00:26:59.88
as an intense pro who came
to Idaho, did what I did and I
00:26:59.91\00:27:06.92
was on intense parole and
that's where Kerry comes in.
00:27:06.95\00:27:10.08
So would like to
introduce everyone to his parole
00:27:10.11\00:27:14.53
officer and I
love this part of it.
00:27:14.56\00:27:17.37
So Kerry I want to just
say man what was he like?
00:27:17.40\00:27:23.33
When you saw him, when
you met him for the first
00:27:23.36\00:27:26.22
time and when
you read his charts.
00:27:26.25\00:27:28.64
Oh Man his file was
incredible, because it talks
00:27:28.67\00:27:32.68
about the same
story that Max has told.
00:27:32.71\00:27:34.86
I was working with
younger offenders and violent
00:27:34.89\00:27:39.97
offenders at the time,
but when I read his file
00:27:40.00\00:27:42.98
It was like, oh Lord, this
is going to be interesting.
00:27:43.01\00:27:46.77
But when I met Max,
you can see that God's
00:27:46.80\00:27:50.50
fingerprint was on
him, God had already done
00:27:50.53\00:27:54.78
a lot of work in Max's heart.
00:27:54.81\00:27:56.55
So what was on the file
Max had already began changing.
00:27:56.58\00:28:00.29
Cheri: So God had already,
it was already so evident
00:28:00.32\00:28:03.55
- right - incredible and
your a Christian guy - yes!
00:28:03.58\00:28:06.69
Cheri: so that must of
felt really gratifying to you
00:28:06.72\00:28:11.70
is that I'm going to
work with this guy but God is
00:28:11.73\00:28:13.99
already there -
yeah, it was gratifying.
00:28:14.02\00:28:16.83
So we started that
process and there was some
00:28:16.86\00:28:19.61
challenges along the way.
00:28:19.64\00:28:20.69
Cheri: challenges in,
what's he talking about Max?
00:28:20.72\00:28:23.87
Max: my will, it was
still poking its head.
00:28:23.90\00:28:28.75
Cheri: because it's
tough, that's tough work,
00:28:28.78\00:28:31.87
when somebody says, God
stepped in and everything
00:28:31.90\00:28:34.63
was alright, it's like
there is a work to be done.
00:28:34.66\00:28:37.29
Max: Yep there definitely
was and I was like a dog,
00:28:37.32\00:28:42.25
that, because
serving the Lord in
00:28:42.28\00:28:45.13
prison you are kind of confined.
00:28:45.16\00:28:46.41
You know there are some
rules but once you get out
00:28:46.44\00:28:49.70
there are no rules, you
do have rules but it's like
00:28:49.73\00:28:53.75
the chain came off and I
was like a dog, okay what am
00:28:53.78\00:28:57.30
I going to do now?
00:28:57.33\00:28:58.36
I can either still do
this God thing, maybe I will so
00:28:58.39\00:29:02.70
that Kerry is happy
and then I can be okay and
00:29:02.73\00:29:05.27
released from
parole and I'll be good.
00:29:05.30\00:29:06.82
Still the manipulation
starts to come back and I
00:29:06.85\00:29:10.98
would do the best I
could to manipulate him and be
00:29:11.01\00:29:13.27
Mr. nice, church was
good Kerry, because he
00:29:13.30\00:29:15.49
invites me to church and I
go to be on his good graces.
00:29:15.52\00:29:18.80
Cheri: because he can show
up at your house at any time.
00:29:18.83\00:29:21.59
Any time and he did.
00:29:21.62\00:29:23.06
Cheri: so Kerry I want to
ask you, you could show up
00:29:23.09\00:29:27.54
at any time and did you
know that you had a lot of
00:29:27.57\00:29:31.12
work and you can see the
playing and the slipping in and
00:29:31.15\00:29:33.55
out of this commitment?
00:29:33.58\00:29:35.19
Yeah you can see that,
but should also see Max's
00:29:35.22\00:29:37.27
family they were all very
steeped in that lifestyle.
00:29:37.30\00:29:39.99
So Max has his room in
the house, and then there's
00:29:40.02\00:29:43.81
all the other stuff
going on periphery, it wasn't
00:29:43.84\00:29:47.00
blatant, but you can
see the telltale signs.
00:29:47.03\00:29:49.24
This family is steeped
in this gang lifestyle,
00:29:49.27\00:29:52.47
alcohol and drugs,
people coming and going so
00:29:52.50\00:29:55.41
I knew there were some
huge challenges for Max
00:29:55.44\00:29:57.66
just to make it
as a guy on a parole.
00:29:57.69\00:30:00.64
The challenges were
huge - so we are not even
00:30:00.67\00:30:02.63
talking about stepping
into integrity and Christianity
00:30:02.66\00:30:06.65
and all that kind of stuff.
00:30:06.68\00:30:08.42
What kinds of things did
you just tell him, I would
00:30:08.45\00:30:12.90
want to grab him by the
face and say this is your life,
00:30:12.93\00:30:15.71
you cannot, what kind
of things did you tell him,
00:30:15.74\00:30:18.82
did you do to just
help him to stand up?
00:30:18.85\00:30:21.86
The first thing that
had to be done was to build
00:30:21.89\00:30:24.50
a relationship with Max more
then parole officer and parolee.
00:30:24.53\00:30:29.57
because there is no
relationship there, I have the
00:30:29.60\00:30:32.42
authority, do what I say
and if you don't do it your
00:30:32.45\00:30:34.20
going back to prison.
00:30:34.23\00:30:35.52
You can't disciple,
you can't mentor, you can't
00:30:35.55\00:30:38.62
encourage people
if that's all you do.
00:30:38.65\00:30:41.17
I tried with all
the guys on my caseload,
00:30:41.20\00:30:44.17
but especially with Max
to build that relationship.
00:30:44.20\00:30:47.19
There were times that I
kind of bent the rules that I
00:30:47.22\00:30:50.67
was supposed to
operate under, but there were
00:30:50.70\00:30:53.30
good reasons for that.
00:30:53.33\00:30:54.47
Max's family is a
Latino family, and they cook
00:30:54.50\00:30:57.49
incredible food and one
of the rules is you don't
00:30:57.52\00:31:02.66
eat at the offenders home.
00:31:02.69\00:31:04.80
I know that that is the
rule but oh my goodness food.
00:31:04.83\00:31:07.75
I'm sure with
these incredible smells.
00:31:07.78\00:31:11.39
We began to build a
relationship and he saw, and his
00:31:11.42\00:31:15.13
family saw, that I was
really for all them, I wanted
00:31:15.16\00:31:17.97
them to succeed, but guys
we have to follow the rules.
00:31:18.00\00:31:20.68
So as they saw that I
wanted to help, then it was
00:31:20.71\00:31:23.33
worse because mama
wanted me eat, and dad wanted me
00:31:23.36\00:31:26.36
to eat, and the brothers
are like Kerry it's good
00:31:26.39\00:31:28.97
to see you we are glad
you are here, thanks for
00:31:29.00\00:31:31.08
working with Max please eat.
00:31:31.11\00:31:32.53
And so there comes a
point with some of those rules,
00:31:32.56\00:31:35.35
the intention of the
rules is we don't want the
00:31:35.38\00:31:37.95
offenders poisoning us
and we go home and die.
00:31:37.98\00:31:40.25
So you kind that step
out sometimes and take a risk
00:31:40.28\00:31:44.70
and say, alright a
quick plate of food, Max let's
00:31:44.73\00:31:48.15
talk about how your
week is going and we built a
00:31:48.18\00:31:49.84
relationship that way.
00:31:49.87\00:31:51.36
One of my philosophies
was these guys have to come
00:31:51.39\00:31:55.54
to me, stop thinking
like criminals and trust me
00:31:55.57\00:31:58.84
to stay on my case load.
00:31:58.87\00:32:01.17
What am I risking, they
are risking a lot, because
00:32:01.20\00:32:04.49
I'm a pro social person,
I'm not an antisocial person,
00:32:04.52\00:32:07.12
I'm not an addict, I'm
from the law enforcement
00:32:07.15\00:32:09.70
community so there's
also reasons for them not
00:32:09.73\00:32:11.35
to trust me and open up to me.
00:32:11.38\00:32:13.01
Yet I asked them
every week to trust me,
00:32:13.04\00:32:15.64
open up to me, work
with me and I got to thinking
00:32:15.67\00:32:18.55
what am I risking?
00:32:18.58\00:32:20.06
Where's my side of the
risk, why would they invest
00:32:20.09\00:32:23.07
in this relationship?
00:32:23.10\00:32:24.52
If they don't
they're not going to succeed.
00:32:24.55\00:32:26.02
I didn't break the rules
that I operated under, but I
00:32:26.05\00:32:30.89
reevaluated the rules to
see their intent and see how
00:32:30.92\00:32:33.62
far I could come towards Max
as a friend and encourage him.
00:32:33.65\00:32:37.98
Sometimes, literally
grabbed his face and say, look
00:32:38.01\00:32:41.27
buddy your future,
your destiny, your purpose,
00:32:41.30\00:32:43.32
don't throw away for this.
00:32:43.35\00:32:45.62
Cheri: so what were you risking?
00:32:45.65\00:32:46.87
Kerry: my job -
right - because you have
00:32:46.90\00:32:50.95
to follow those rules.
00:32:50.98\00:32:52.52
Within the correctional
environment it is unfortunate
00:32:52.55\00:32:56.73
that many times officers
get compromised by offenders.
00:32:56.76\00:32:59.74
Sometimes in a romantic
sexual way, sometimes just
00:32:59.77\00:33:02.90
in a friendship way.
00:33:02.93\00:33:04.27
And it is such a
common occurrence that the
00:33:04.30\00:33:08.12
administrators put the
rules down that you as a parole
00:33:08.15\00:33:11.15
officer have to follow
the rules, and if you don't
00:33:11.18\00:33:13.19
then an investigations
ensue, and if they find you
00:33:13.22\00:33:16.83
violated the rules in the
wrong way, you could be let go.
00:33:16.86\00:33:20.70
You can be moved to
another caseload, so there was
00:33:20.73\00:33:22.95
some risk involved.
00:33:22.98\00:33:24.19
You know what is
amazing to me is when Kerry was
00:33:24.22\00:33:27.74
coming up and coming over
and I know that you played
00:33:27.77\00:33:32.00
him like crazy, or tried to, but
he is coming over and doing that
00:33:32.03\00:33:36.60
When did you realize
that this person is probably
00:33:36.63\00:33:40.88
going to help you
get your life back?
00:33:40.91\00:33:43.21
Well one of the things I
think that as a convict or as
00:33:43.24\00:33:47.86
a criminal with that kind
of thinking you're used to
00:33:47.89\00:33:53.26
breaking rules and you
think rules are only there to
00:33:53.29\00:33:57.64
keep you from doing things.
00:33:57.67\00:33:59.07
So when Kerry went out
of his way to build that
00:33:59.10\00:34:02.65
relationship, I really did
deep down start to trust him.
00:34:02.68\00:34:07.10
I think all of us want to
trust people but were nervous
00:34:07.13\00:34:10.65
on how you're going to
handle all this junk, because we
00:34:10.68\00:34:13.73
have been stepped on
before and hurt in our own way.
00:34:13.76\00:34:17.13
Maybe a lot of its we've
done our self but still this
00:34:17.16\00:34:20.27
is tender and this is all
I have, so I'm not going to
00:34:20.30\00:34:23.42
give it to you if you
are going to step on it like
00:34:23.45\00:34:25.62
everybody else has done.
00:34:25.65\00:34:26.75
So I really felt like I could
start to go like this to Kerry.
00:34:26.78\00:34:29.70
One day I made a
mistake and I stayed out when I
00:34:29.73\00:34:35.03
shouldn't have, the sad
part about it is I would go
00:34:35.06\00:34:37.32
to church and afterwards
me and my cousins would go
00:34:37.35\00:34:39.85
to the bar and drink
beer and shoot pool and I did
00:34:39.88\00:34:43.23
that for a while.
00:34:43.26\00:34:44.29
Cheri: you're not supposed
to be drinking, your not
00:34:44.32\00:34:45.71
not suppose to
be staying out late.
00:34:45.74\00:34:46.77
So he came and looked
at me and he said Max,
00:34:46.80\00:34:51.85
basically in short just
said, if you do that again
00:34:51.88\00:34:56.00
it's going to
be trouble for you.
00:34:56.03\00:34:58.36
He could have
violated you right then!
00:34:58.39\00:35:02.05
He could've for sure, but
I think or what I understand
00:35:02.08\00:35:06.75
now about rules is
that they protect you.
00:35:06.78\00:35:09.27
So I knew there was a
protecting that was going on
00:35:09.30\00:35:12.50
there, he wasn't
trying to enforce some rule,
00:35:12.53\00:35:15.40
he was trying to protect
what the Lord was calling
00:35:15.43\00:35:18.64
me to and I just really
sensed that and I knew that.
00:35:18.67\00:35:21.45
And I think from then on
is where, I was living with
00:35:21.48\00:35:25.58
my girlfriend
who is my wife today.
00:35:25.61\00:35:27.13
He said you guys are
living like you are married,
00:35:27.16\00:35:30.63
you need to make a decision.
00:35:30.66\00:35:32.03
My wife looked at
him, like are you crazy?
00:35:32.06\00:35:33.99
You don't tell us what to
do and I don't even know you.
00:35:34.02\00:35:39.15
I love that,
that's hysterical to me.
00:35:39.18\00:35:43.90
But you know what it
brought us to a place where we
00:35:43.93\00:35:47.12
knew that something had
to happen, we needed to make
00:35:47.15\00:35:50.26
a decision and I fasted
and prayed for 3 days and knew
00:35:50.29\00:35:55.52
that she was my bride.
00:35:55.55\00:35:56.79
11 months we stayed abstinent
and didn't touch each other
00:35:56.82\00:36:01.73
and for the last 4
months we didn't even kiss.
00:36:01.76\00:36:04.26
I remembered her
hand, just a touch of
00:36:04.29\00:36:09.23
her hand just moved me.
00:36:09.26\00:36:10.93
Pastor Mark said, Max
in this day and believe it
00:36:10.96\00:36:17.53
or not on our
marriage, Kerry and a few other
00:36:17.56\00:36:19.99
ushers were carrying
guns, because we had a family
00:36:20.02\00:36:22.04
from California and we
didn't know that and my wife
00:36:22.07\00:36:25.84
is like in the room,
saying you're so pretty.
00:36:25.87\00:36:29.97
Kerry is like, ok,
you guys got your guns,
00:36:30.00\00:36:32.55
okay listen now listen, this
is how it's going to go down.
00:36:32.58\00:36:35.85
But it was very
innocent for my wife and I.
00:36:35.88\00:36:40.76
The pastor said you
may now kiss the bride.
00:36:40.79\00:36:43.45
Cheri: even going to that
point where all the sudden
00:36:43.48\00:36:45.87
absence and the courting
and all those kind of things,
00:36:45.90\00:36:48.34
you had never
done that in your life.
00:36:48.37\00:36:50.08
That kind of innocents
had never been a part of your
00:36:50.11\00:36:52.05
life in for me there is a
joy in that this little kid
00:36:52.08\00:36:56.74
gets to feel what it
feels like to be innocent
00:36:56.77\00:36:59.90
and have it be good.
00:36:59.93\00:37:01.26
Oh man I love it.
00:37:01.29\00:37:03.06
I was kissing her all
over our honeymoon the Lord
00:37:03.09\00:37:05.07
blessed us to be able
to go to Jamaica on our
00:37:05.10\00:37:06.64
honeymoon and I kept
kissing her on the cheek,
00:37:06.67\00:37:08.95
and she said it's okay
to kiss me on the lips now.
00:37:08.98\00:37:13.16
I want to say Max we
are going to take a break
00:37:13.19\00:37:18.28
and come right back.
00:37:18.31\00:37:19.37
But I want to say I
love you and God bless you in
00:37:19.40\00:37:22.01
your recovery, and how
God is going to use you.
00:37:22.04\00:37:25.13
I can't even wait to
see all of that, but it is
00:37:25.16\00:37:28.01
fun to know that even
the most hardened heart,
00:37:28.04\00:37:31.74
God says I can soften that.
00:37:31.77\00:37:34.16
I see in your eyes when
you talk about your past,
00:37:34.19\00:37:38.18
and this is what I
fell in love with when you
00:37:38.21\00:37:40.35
initially talk about
your past, and there are tears
00:37:40.38\00:37:42.59
that come up even
thinking about who you were
00:37:42.62\00:37:45.11
- you just related to
us, I can see the pain
00:37:45.14\00:37:47.78
in relating at times.
00:37:47.81\00:37:49.01
And I just love
you and God bless you.
00:37:49.04\00:37:51.85
Ok, we are going
to be right back.
00:37:51.89\00:37:54.63
I think I'm going to bring Max
back because I want him to say
00:37:54.67\00:37:57.78
a few things before we end
this program, so stay with us.
00:37:57.81\00:38:00.89