Welcome to
Celebrating Life In Recover.
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I'm Cheri your host and
today we are going to learn how
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to live a life of
recovery every day.
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With meaning and joy and
interest, so come and join us.
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I love life, but for years
I spent trying to figure out
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recovery, I went to
counseling, I went to groups,
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I went to pastors and
I got self-help books.
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I wanted to be normal so
bad that I got every book on the
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shelf, I will go to
the self-help section.
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You know that section
is growing every year.
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I went there and found
books on how to socialize,
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books on how to speak
to people, I have books on
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Depression and how to
deal with molestation issues.
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How to get over memory
stuff, how to deal with anger.
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I didn't even know I was
angry at first, somebody said
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Cheri, I was born to drug
addict parents, I was homeless
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for 10 years, I was a
strung out on heroin and when I
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got into recovery the consular
said were you ever angry?
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I said no, he was
like oh my goodness.
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He thought I was in such
denial, then he taught me that
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I was angry and I
was angry for year.
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I thought I have a
right to be angry now.
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He said to start writing angry
notes to folks, if they did
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something to me write it down.
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I would start not thinking
I was that angry and I would
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start writing and by the
end of the letter my blood
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pressure is up in my face
is red and I had the veins
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sticking out of my head.
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I did all that kind of
stuff, I took antidepressants,
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I took herbs, I took
vitamins, I changed my eating
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habits and I learn to exercise.
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I thought about
learning to exercise.
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I did every single thing
and I found out after years
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and years of just searching
for how to do it myself and
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that God has a plan.
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This section of the show
we are going to talk about the
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Holy Spirit in recovery
and a scripture for this series
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is Psalms 51 and I'm
going to read verse 10 today.
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Verse 10 says "create in me
a clean heart oh God and renew
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"a right spirit within me, a
steadfast spirit within me. "
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I'm thinking
creating me a clean heart.
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I had never had that, I
was molested all my life.
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I was trashed all my
life. I had issues all my life.
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When somebody said
act normal or think right,
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what does that mean? I
don't know how to do that.
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I do not know what that
means and so we are going to
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talk today about the Holy
Spirit and what He offers us.
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I'm going to introduce you
to the guests that are here,
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to people that we
are going to interview.
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Jim and Lori if we are
going to interview you today and
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hear all about your stories,
Jim I love you and I am so
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glad that you are here.
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Sam, thank you for coming.
Heather, Curly - hi there.
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- how are you doing? -
I'm doing good, doing good.
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You know you have been on
other shows and when you're
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on other shows all the
tattoos that you had on your
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face and neck and hands
were much darker, but we are
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working on
getting those removed with
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Dr. Steven Popkow in California.
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So I wanted people to see.
I'm getting lighter every day
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and end the only fellow
that can disappear and reappear
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at the same time. So I
have had four treatments on all
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the tattoos that have
been removed, neck and face.
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We just started the eyelids,
hands are going to come off,
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the tattoos not the hands.
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And I need those thumbs
so it's come a long good.
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I mean I haven't looked
from when I started to now
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because I want until the
end, but from other people what
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they are telling me it
is a drastic change and
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I'm getting lighter every day.
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I went with you the first
treatment and saw you when they
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first did the laser that
looks so incredibly painful.
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Horrible,
horrible I mean the pain.
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The first treatment is
the worst one, they still hurt
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tremendously. - they
actually take lasers?
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It is the green laser and
for the first three treatments
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it is set four millimeter
which is a big hit with the
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laser and I have now switched
it to 2 mm hits which is
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more intense think it's in
there to get the darker lines
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out. It's bloody situation,
at first it was more like a
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burn, but now there
is more blood involved.
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The pain I have learned to
tolerate it but it still hurts.
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I don't scream as much as
I did in the first session
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when you were there.
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I was there on the first section
I and I have to tell you is
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that when he hit especially
your lips and a part of your
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face, that the pain was so
intense that I felt like it
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physically hit me
from across the room.
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You had to scream on
that one. Oh yeah it was just
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painful and since this has
been on 3ABN a lot of people
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come up to me and tell me
like hey, there is some other
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products out there that
you don't have to use a laser.
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There is some cream you
can put on your arm that is
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supposed to make
the tattoo go away.
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I asked the doctor and he
said don't use it has some
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acid in their and it will
burn your skin and leave a scar.
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I even had this one fellow
come up to me and told me if
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you inject goats milk, if
you inject goats milk into your
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tattoo it will make
your tattoo disappear.
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I tried it. Did it work?
No, it didn't do anything.
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But I got rid of my lawnmower
and I am eating a lot more
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grass and I don't have
the mow the yard as often.
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I'm serious that's true
story, the guy told me to inject
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goats milk but you
have to be careful here.
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You do want to go to a
doctor because there are other
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people that are buying
these machines that are not
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doctors, and a tattoo shop
around here a guy has a laser
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machine and is a Piercist
doing these tattoos using
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a laser on these people.
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I have talked to
people and it is not working.
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The doctor said you have
to go through a doctor, so
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anybody watching go to a doctor
that is licensed to do this.
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You can get scarred up
or hurt, and infection,
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you need to go
to a professional.
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Let me just ask you,
why remove your tattoos?
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What does that mean to you?
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A chance to start over,
once these tattoos are gone
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I have to deal with
everything that has been hidden
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underneath them and
it is a big old mess
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let me tell you what.
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- but God can do that as
well as remove the tattoos.
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- I know He can, God has taken
this every step of the way.
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- even with your plane flights,
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getting you to California.
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- yes two days ago I got a
treatment and I didn't know
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if I was going to go or
not because I didn't have any
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plane tickets, people have
been helping me out, you have
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been helping me out
to get my plane tickets.
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Other people have been
coming up and helping me out.
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I didn't know if I was
going to go, I got up in the
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morning and after having a
pity party the night before
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thinking here we go, I'm
half way through this thing
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and now it's not going to work.
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I got up and got my
Bible out, read the Bible and
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prayed about it and
within two hours I had my plane
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tickets for the next one
plus two more plane tickets
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so I'm good to go.
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Where I love God Curly,
on another show I'm going to
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just talked to you,
because I think you are amazing
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and what God is doing
in your life is amazing.
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And Jonathan we are going
to talk about your testimony
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today and your
choices to come to God.
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One of the things I would
really like to hear is that
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every single one
of us has a journey.
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And some it is very physical,
you can look at Curly and
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have to say, oh man, but
all of us have stuff that God
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works on, and the stuff
is bigger than we are capable
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of healing, it's
bigger than I can understand.
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Bible says lean not unto
your own understanding because
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you can't understand that
but I will give you the Holy
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Spirit and I am so glad that
God sends the Holy Spirit to
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direct us in our recovery.
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And going back to the
first part of my recovery,
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I remember just feeling
like I was working too hard.
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I was reading all these
books and doing all this stuff
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and I finally said God,
this should not be so hard.
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He said it isn't.
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I'm thinking, really
because it feels hard to me.
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The Bible says, this is
the amplified in Matthew.
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I was not feeling refreshed,
I was not feeling rested.
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I was not feeling that
that was true and I remember
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thinking, God you
have to help me here.
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We're going to listen as they
go through the show and see how
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God does that, there is a
surrender to Him that I had to
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do, I had to come to a
place and say you know what God?
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I'm going to give it up.
I'm going to give it to You.
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Curly do you
remember when you said the
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plane tickets were not there?
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You wanted to pick up
the phone and call everybody.
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I want to figure it out, I
want to go to another group,
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get another book and God
says that takes time away from
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Me being able to pour into you.
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If you come to Me first, I
promise you I will lead you
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into a direction where
you will find strength.
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I'm thinking come to You
first, I want to do something
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I want to figure this out
and God finally lets me do it
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and 10 years later
and guess what I'm saying?
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This shouldn't be so hard,
but God says come to Me first.
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I just want to say if you
are dealing with anything,
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go to God first, ask
Him for the Holy Spirit.
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Ask Him to baptize you in
the Holy Spirit and we have
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talked about that
throughout this show.
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God every day
fill me up, every day.
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I need guidance from You
every single day before my feet
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hit the ground, before I
come up with a thought in
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my head or a
direction to go, fill me up.
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Tell me, the Bible says I
will tell you whether to go
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right or left, and I am
thinking I know whether to go
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right or left,
and He is like yeah,
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look back at your life.
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Which direction right or left?
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Don't trust yourself at
all, especially in the first
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part of recovery,
especially in the first part of
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life changes, ask Him.
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You know I don't even
know how to think, God how do
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I think, how do I do this?
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When God finally says this
is how you do it, this is how
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you think how I found out
that after I turned it over to
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God, I thought I was
going to grieve at some of the
00:11:03.97\00:11:06.56
things that were leaving
my life, but He poured so much
00:11:06.60\00:11:09.28
into me that I started to
like being in my own skin.
00:11:09.32\00:11:13.01
I started to like who I
was, I started to laugh and it
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wasn't put on, I could
laugh out loud and it was good.
00:11:16.55\00:11:19.99
When God says I want
to give you life, and life
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abundantly, I want you to
enjoy waking up in the morning.
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I want you to enjoy hanging
out with folks and we can't
00:11:27.42\00:11:31.11
do that with all our garbage.
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I don't even know
what my garbage looks like.
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God says if you turn it
over to Me, I will gently show
00:11:34.78\00:11:37.49
you what your garbage
looks like and I will pour into
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you My Holy Spirit and
show you what health looks like.
00:11:40.46\00:11:43.33
What love looks like,
what life looks like, and what
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laughter and joy feels like.
00:11:46.23\00:11:48.03
I'm thinking man, I love that.
00:11:48.06\00:11:49.79
We are going to be right back
and I'm going to introduce you
00:11:49.82\00:11:52.08
to Lori and Jim and Jonathan
and we are going to find
00:11:52.12\00:11:54.92
out how God has worked in
their life because every one of
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us has a story and every
one of us has something to show
00:11:59.27\00:12:03.53
about how God has
worked in their life and who
00:12:03.56\00:12:06.54
God is in their life.
00:12:06.57\00:12:07.90
Stay with us it is
amazing, absolutely amazing.
00:12:07.93\00:12:10.80
We'll be right back.
00:12:10.84\00:12:12.10
Think you've seen
it all? Think again.
00:12:17.05\00:12:20.26
Cheri Peters is back
for a second season of
00:12:20.30\00:12:23.97
Celebrating Life In
Recovery with more lives
00:12:24.00\00:12:27.63
more stories and more miracles.
00:12:27.67\00:12:30.50
Watch the shocking,
inspiring, and the incredible.
00:12:30.54\00:12:34.58
Check your local
listings to find out when
00:12:34.61\00:12:36.95
Celebrating Life In
Recovery comes to you and get
00:12:36.98\00:12:40.33
ready for another dose
of reality, Cheri style.
00:12:40.36\00:12:43.67
This is my favorite part
of the show when we get to
00:12:58.73\00:13:00.65
interview the guest, but
before we go there I want to
00:13:00.68\00:13:02.57
finish off with
what Matthew said.
00:13:02.60\00:13:04.08
He goes on to
say in Matthew 11:28.
00:13:04.11\00:13:05.55
Not to learn about your
molest or your dysfunction
00:13:08.84\00:13:11.92
or your fears or even how
to be normal, He says learn
00:13:11.96\00:13:15.00
of Me for I am gentle and meek.
00:13:15.04\00:13:17.74
I thought how
incredible that is.
00:13:38.75\00:13:40.41
God says that even with
all of our stuff, with all our
00:13:40.44\00:13:45.04
junk, He says yoke up
with Me and it will be easy.
00:13:45.08\00:13:49.61
We are going to talk with
Jim and Lori now and I want to
00:13:49.64\00:13:53.11
say thank you so much for
being here on the show with us.
00:13:53.14\00:13:56.57
Thank you for having us.
00:13:56.61\00:13:58.25
I've known you for a couple
of years now and been blessed
00:13:58.29\00:14:01.64
by your testimony and I
have loved hanging out with you.
00:14:01.67\00:14:04.99
Lori I have to say
that we met at Black Hills
00:14:05.02\00:14:08.70
- health and education
Center - yes and I went there
00:14:08.73\00:14:11.79
to get healthy, who
would have thought it?
00:14:11.83\00:14:16.04
I went there and you were
working on staff doing what?
00:14:16.07\00:14:19.84
I was in the
kitchen, assistant cook.
00:14:19.88\00:14:22.50
And you are teaching
us how to cook. - yes.
00:14:22.54\00:14:25.03
Because I had no idea how
to cook healthy, so teaching
00:14:25.07\00:14:28.58
us how to cook healthy
and how to prepare stuff.
00:14:28.62\00:14:31.02
Every night I would get
ready to go to sleep and hear
00:14:31.06\00:14:35.53
this knock on
the door and it was
00:14:35.56\00:14:39.50
Lori, she would come in
and tell me the most incredible
00:14:39.54\00:14:43.09
stories and then tuck me
in and say prayer and leave.
00:14:43.13\00:14:46.64
I thought how fun is this.
00:14:46.68\00:14:48.62
So I want for people to
get an idea what that was.
00:14:48.66\00:14:51.71
I want you to tell one of
your stories, but I want you
00:14:51.74\00:14:54.82
to tell it like you told
me because you are a good
00:14:54.85\00:14:57.89
storyteller. - okay.
00:14:57.92\00:15:00.13
You want me to tell the
tree story first? Sangooma- yes.
00:15:00.16\00:15:03.49
This is actually
Bill's Liversige story.
00:15:03.53\00:15:07.08
I love this story because
this to me shows that God
00:15:07.11\00:15:12.20
people think that witnessing
is this boring door to
00:15:12.24\00:15:17.29
door, meeting
strangers and really scary.
00:15:17.33\00:15:20.97
But God has creative
ways to get His message
00:15:21.00\00:15:24.61
across to other people.
00:15:24.65\00:15:26.34
Bill was a pastor, he was a
missionary in Papua New Guinea
00:15:26.38\00:15:32.60
for 10 years and he said
this is the funniest thing
00:15:32.63\00:15:35.01
that happened to him
and was the most awesome,
00:15:35.04\00:15:37.10
one of the most awesome.
00:15:37.14\00:15:39.10
He was in what he calls a walk-
about, he's from Australia and
00:15:39.14\00:15:43.85
with him was a man learning the
ropes of being a missionary in
00:15:43.88\00:15:48.56
Papua New Guinea, the
cultural does and don'ts.
00:15:48.59\00:15:52.24
Things they can offend and
things they can get away with.
00:15:52.27\00:15:55.82
So here he is in Papua New
Guinea and he said one thing
00:15:55.86\00:15:59.20
you noticed about the people
of Papua New Guinea is that
00:15:59.23\00:16:02.42
they had their hair cut and
their fingernails cut but you
00:16:02.45\00:16:05.61
never saw them doing it.
00:16:05.64\00:16:07.25
He said he was on this
walkabout and the women,
00:16:07.28\00:16:13.87
by the way, had
their head shaved bald.
00:16:13.91\00:16:18.34
The men in heathen New
Guinea the bigger their wig,
00:16:18.38\00:16:22.35
the more wives they had,
the bigger their wig the more
00:16:22.39\00:16:26.33
prestige that they
had in the village.
00:16:26.37\00:16:28.63
So here he is walking with
this man and here's a word he
00:16:28.66\00:16:33.22
never heard before, sangooma
and he said it was said with
00:16:33.25\00:16:37.78
fear, he was
wondering what was up with that.
00:16:37.81\00:16:40.53
He had never
heard that word before.
00:16:40.57\00:16:42.16
So he is walking in the
village and they came to this
00:16:42.20\00:16:45.57
clearing where there is a
hundred men naked and covered
00:16:45.61\00:16:48.94
in pigs grease and
they are dancing wildly.
00:16:48.98\00:16:53.23
Over in the corner is the
little man who had the eyes of a
00:16:53.26\00:16:57.87
sorcerer and in front of
him was what I call a primitive
00:16:57.91\00:17:01.99
rotisserie and you see the
chickens in the grocery store
00:17:02.02\00:17:06.07
going round and round.
00:17:06.10\00:17:07.24
Well this was a sweet
potato and on the rotisserie was
00:17:07.28\00:17:11.00
a sweet potato
which is called a cow-cow.
00:17:11.04\00:17:13.18
When you cook it is
called a mow-mow so when you are
00:17:13.22\00:17:15.95
hungry you
mow-mow your cow-how cow.
00:17:15.99\00:17:17.79
In the sweet potato are
fingernail and hair and a vine
00:17:17.82\00:17:23.90
tied around the middle.
00:17:23.93\00:17:25.96
As a sweet potato cooked,
well Bill is a very bold,
00:17:26.00\00:17:30.15
well the Bible says God
will give us boldness to go out.
00:17:30.18\00:17:35.43
He said what is
happening here anyway?
00:17:35.46\00:17:37.75
And as this little man waddles
over and he said in the next
00:17:37.79\00:17:42.05
village is a man
who is very sick.
00:17:42.09\00:17:45.66
He is so sick, and his
wife leans over and says what is
00:17:45.69\00:17:50.07
wrong? He says
one word, sangooma.
00:17:50.10\00:17:53.47
She nearly starts crying
because in heathen New Guinea
00:17:53.50\00:17:58.45
if you have something
against someone you follow them
00:17:58.48\00:18:02.31
to the secret place in the
jungle where they bury their
00:18:02.34\00:18:05.78
fingernails and hair and
you dig it up and take it to
00:18:05.81\00:18:09.09
the sangooma man, he
worked sangooma and they die.
00:18:09.12\00:18:12.33
Bill said as the sweet potato
cooked the vine got closer
00:18:12.37\00:18:17.38
and closer and the sweet
potato fell into the fire and
00:18:17.42\00:18:22.61
the little man waddles
over and says the man is dead.
00:18:22.65\00:18:27.81
Bill said no way, you
can't kill a man that way.
00:18:27.85\00:18:31.20
You do go to the
next village and see.
00:18:31.24\00:18:33.87
So he does and sure
enough he hears the wailing.
00:18:33.90\00:18:39.46
In heathen New Guinea
they wail, it's an exaggerated
00:18:39.49\00:18:44.19
crying so he goes to the
chief and says what's happening
00:18:44.22\00:18:48.88
here? He said a man is dead.
00:18:48.91\00:18:51.10
What time did he die?
Same time. What did he die of?
00:18:51.13\00:18:55.75
What was the
man's name? Same name.
00:18:55.78\00:18:57.66
What did he die of? Sangooma.
00:18:57.70\00:19:00.00
Bill said you could have
knocked him over with a feather.
00:19:00.03\00:19:02.97
He is walking through the
village after talking with the
00:19:03.01\00:19:07.08
chief, he loves gardening
and they have 400 varieties of
00:19:07.12\00:19:11.44
orchids in New Guinea that
are nowhere else in the world.
00:19:11.48\00:19:15.77
I bet that's
beautiful. - they are beautiful.
00:19:15.80\00:19:18.47
He comes to this tree
and the fruit of the tree
00:19:18.51\00:19:21.30
would take two men
facing each other to go around
00:19:21.34\00:19:24.10
one piece of fruit.
00:19:24.14\00:19:25.89
Bill goes wow, I've never
seen fruit like that before.
00:19:25.92\00:19:29.91
He goes to touch the tree
and this little guy comes out
00:19:29.94\00:19:33.89
and says, don't put
your hand on this tree.
00:19:33.93\00:19:36.78
He says why, it's just a tree?
00:19:36.81\00:19:38.49
He said oh no, this
is the sangooma tree.
00:19:38.52\00:19:41.91
No one has ever lived who
has touched the sangooma tree.
00:19:41.94\00:19:47.36
What he thought was fruit
were smoked bodies and that is
00:19:47.40\00:19:52.79
how the sangooma man
worked power over the people.
00:19:52.82\00:19:56.86
So Bill said it that is
when he got first of two
00:19:56.90\00:20:00.90
very creative ideas,
00:20:00.94\00:20:03.39
and the man was with
him was very cautious.
00:20:03.43\00:20:05.94
So much so that Bill couldn't
believe he was going to be
00:20:05.97\00:20:08.01
a missionary in
Papua New Guinea.
00:20:08.04\00:20:10.11
At this time they still
had the pygmies, the cannibals
00:20:10.15\00:20:13.95
that would kill
people and everything.
00:20:13.98\00:20:16.17
He said, let's put our
sleeping bags under the tree
00:20:16.20\00:20:21.73
touch the tree
and see what happens.
00:20:21.77\00:20:24.38
- could you believe everybody
in the village was like!
00:20:24.42\00:20:27.01
No, nobody's ever done that.
00:20:27.05\00:20:29.29
No, he was just
telling this guy.
00:20:29.33\00:20:31.61
The guy said you go right
ahead but I'm not touching that
00:20:31.65\00:20:35.16
tree, and Bill said I'm
kind of persuasive so as we put
00:20:35.20\00:20:38.65
our sleeping bags under the tree
the kudu drums began to beat,
00:20:38.68\00:20:43.72
they didn't have telephones
in the little village.
00:20:43.76\00:20:46.96
Um dee bum, bum,
bum dee bum, bum.
00:20:46.99\00:20:50.16
And they would
beat all night long.
00:20:50.19\00:20:51.71
Bill said one of the disappoint-
ments was he never learned
00:20:51.74\00:20:54.10
the language of drums, they
probably wouldn't have slept
00:20:54.14\00:20:56.47
so well if I had learned it.
00:20:56.50\00:20:58.05
He said I'm a night owl and
I function very well at night.
00:20:58.09\00:21:01.01
The next morning very
early he hears voices, hundreds
00:21:01.05\00:21:07.23
maybe a thousand
voices all around.
00:21:07.26\00:21:09.79
He said what is up with this?
00:21:09.82\00:21:11.40
It occurred to him that
they were here for the ceremony
00:21:11.44\00:21:14.44
and that is when he got
his second very creative idea.
00:21:14.47\00:21:18.52
He said I got another idea
saying to the guy with him.
00:21:18.56\00:21:22.47
Like I said shut up
because he heard the voices too.
00:21:22.51\00:21:25.85
He said no this is very
good let's pretend we're dead.
00:21:25.88\00:21:31.53
So here they are, the chief
sends this man over to see if
00:21:31.56\00:21:36.94
they are dead and Bill
said the sleeping bag was pulled
00:21:36.98\00:21:41.40
over their heads, so the
little guy puts his hand where
00:21:41.43\00:21:45.82
their heads would
be, they're both dead.
00:21:45.86\00:21:48.58
Bill said how he
knew I'll never know.
00:21:48.61\00:21:51.26
Anyway, the chief said no
remove the calico because he
00:21:51.30\00:21:56.28
didn't know what
a sleeping bag was.
00:21:56.31\00:21:57.50
So the man slowly puts his
pig greased hand sliding it
00:21:57.53\00:22:01.52
over Bill's face and Bill
said I did the first thing
00:22:01.56\00:22:05.28
I can think of, I sat up
very quickly and went boo.
00:22:05.32\00:22:08.98
He said before you could
snap fingers all those hundreds
00:22:09.01\00:22:14.26
of people were in the jungle
and behind every Sago Palm
00:22:14.29\00:22:19.51
and every bush
looking at the little guy.
00:22:19.54\00:22:22.76
No one had ever lived
who had touched this tree.
00:22:22.79\00:22:25.82
Bill said we laughed and
laughed and laughed for about 10
00:22:25.86\00:22:29.10
minutes, because the little
guy that touched him jumped
00:22:29.14\00:22:32.12
about 6 foot in the air
before he went into the jungle.
00:22:32.16\00:22:35.93
So now the chief comes
out and he said the New Guinea
00:22:35.97\00:22:39.71
people have a
wonderful sense of humor.
00:22:39.74\00:22:41.38
He came out and he goes,
talk savvy with me one talk,
00:22:41.42\00:22:45.31
because he spoke their language,
he said how is it that you touch
00:22:45.35\00:22:50.80
that tree and
you are still alive?
00:22:50.84\00:22:53.58
He knew that no power, no
spirit in his village could have
00:22:53.61\00:22:57.50
kept him alive
from touching that tree.
00:22:57.53\00:23:00.05
He told them the story of
PaPa who was on top, and Jesus
00:23:00.09\00:23:05.02
and told them the story of
salvation and Jesus coming to
00:23:05.05\00:23:09.95
this world and
dying on the cross.
00:23:09.99\00:23:11.59
He said we have to
hold evangelist meetings.
00:23:11.62\00:23:14.66
He said they knew that
our God was more powerful then
00:23:14.70\00:23:19.62
their spirits and now the
sangooma man has no power in
00:23:19.66\00:23:24.29
the village and if you go
there on Sabbath morning there
00:23:24.32\00:23:28.92
are people in their
white robes and worshiping.
00:23:28.95\00:23:33.00
- so they're not naked? -
they're not naked and they
00:23:33.03\00:23:36.83
are ready to meet
Jesus when He comes.
00:23:36.86\00:23:38.95
When she came in and told
me these stories, what was
00:23:38.98\00:23:41.18
amazing to me in that
story was so incredible,
00:23:41.22\00:23:43.85
I realize for myself my
years of damage or believe.
00:23:43.88\00:23:51.18
They believe so much that
they would die when they touch
00:23:51.22\00:23:53.28
the tree that they died,
and I believe so much that
00:23:53.31\00:23:55.78
I would never be well, I
could never change, I could
00:23:55.82\00:23:58.25
never get over the
attachment disorders and
00:23:58.29\00:24:00.24
bondage disorders and drug
addiction or whatever until
00:24:00.27\00:24:03.95
I met a God that says you
won't die, I can heal you.
00:24:03.98\00:24:07.89
Every story you told
me, when you would leave the
00:24:07.92\00:24:11.79
Holy Spirit
would just talk to me.
00:24:11.83\00:24:13.62
That is how we met
is through your stories.
00:24:13.65\00:24:15.83
I'm like little kid, I
would lay down and think,
00:24:15.86\00:24:19.23
where is she? I
haven't heard her knocking.
00:24:19.26\00:24:23.82
So I just loved you, I
loved your stories and someday
00:24:23.85\00:24:27.79
I'm hoping you will have
your own show just telling
00:24:27.82\00:24:31.72
stories would be fun.
00:24:31.75\00:24:33.50
So Jim I want you to talk,
I also heard your testimony
00:24:33.53\00:24:37.65
during that time in our you
to tell us where you came from
00:24:37.69\00:24:41.77
and what was your
walk with God like?
00:24:41.81\00:24:43.91
Because you had to
give up some stuff too.
00:24:43.94\00:24:46.09
My mother was about 14
years old when she got pregnant.
00:24:46.12\00:24:51.97
She put my older brother
up for adoption right after he
00:24:52.00\00:24:56.99
was born and from what I
understand she basically went
00:24:57.02\00:25:01.05
from pillar to post as the
expression goes, she didn't
00:25:01.09\00:25:05.08
have a lot of normalcy herself.
00:25:05.11\00:25:07.40
She got pregnant when
she was about 16 and was in
00:25:07.44\00:25:11.96
Richmond Virginia and I was
born about six months later.
00:25:11.99\00:25:16.13
I understand I was about 10
weeks early and when I was a
00:25:16.17\00:25:20.27
few months old. - you
was born at home? - yes.
00:25:20.31\00:25:24.39
They found out I had cerebral
palsy so I added that to a
00:25:29.58\00:25:34.92
long list of other crazy
things that I went through
00:25:34.95\00:25:39.25
growing up and
dealing with the CP.
00:25:39.28\00:25:41.44
When you were a kid with
cerebral palsy did you need
00:25:41.47\00:25:46.91
assistance in
walking? Are any of that stuff?
00:25:46.95\00:25:50.04
When I was very small I
had night braces that did not
00:25:50.08\00:25:53.63
bend at the knee and then
I had day braces that did.
00:25:53.67\00:25:57.17
I remember the night
braces were very painful because
00:25:57.20\00:26:02.72
I had muscles spasms and
issues with flexibility so I did
00:26:02.76\00:26:08.25
not like wearing
those night braces.
00:26:08.28\00:26:10.78
Because your mom
was a kid, how did
00:26:10.82\00:26:13.25
she deal with your CP? How
did she deal with all that?
00:26:13.29\00:26:17.14
I think she thought he was
basically normal that he will
00:26:17.18\00:26:21.00
outgrow this
and he will be okay.
00:26:21.03\00:26:23.80
I guess in a sense you
could say I turned out okay,
00:26:23.83\00:26:27.31
but it was not okay growing up.
00:26:27.35\00:26:29.54
It was tough, but there
were a lot of things I had to go
00:26:29.57\00:26:33.51
through, a lot of growing,
a lot of things I had to deal
00:26:33.54\00:26:36.88
with. - she had different
people coming in and out of
00:26:36.92\00:26:40.22
her life because of her
relationship addictions.
00:26:40.26\00:26:42.53
Was she a drinker, or
did she have any of that?
00:26:42.56\00:26:44.76
As far as I can remember
she did not have issues with
00:26:44.80\00:26:50.00
drugs or drinking until I
was about six years old and my
00:26:50.03\00:26:54.99
mother married a man in the
Virginia area who became what
00:26:55.03\00:26:59.95
I knew as my stepfather.
00:26:59.98\00:27:01.96
They got involved heavily
in drinking and drugs and going
00:27:02.00\00:27:06.60
out at night and
getting into trouble.
00:27:06.64\00:27:08.48
So when you were six
what did you do at night?
00:27:08.52\00:27:11.47
I was left alone by myself
and it got to be such a normal
00:27:11.50\00:27:17.01
for me thing that I would
set the alarm and get myself up
00:27:17.04\00:27:22.51
make my own breakfast
and get ready for school.
00:27:22.55\00:27:26.42
From what I can remember,
one time when my mother and
00:27:26.45\00:27:31.28
stepfather got arrested
for breaking into a place, they
00:27:31.31\00:27:36.10
didn't even tell the
policeman that they had
00:27:36.14\00:27:38.80
a handicapped child at home.
00:27:38.83\00:27:40.66
- they got
arrested and were in jail?
00:27:40.69\00:27:42.87
Right, and they
didn't tell anybody.
00:27:42.90\00:27:45.01
I was a week, maybe
two weeks by myself before
00:27:45.05\00:27:49.78
anybody figured it out.
00:27:49.82\00:27:51.35
You are taking care of
yourself, getting all your meals
00:27:51.39\00:27:53.74
getting to school and
doing all that? - right.
00:27:53.77\00:27:55.67
You did it? - right, I think
the teachers got suspicious
00:27:55.71\00:27:59.65
because I didn't
change clothes often enough.
00:27:59.69\00:28:01.80
What's interesting to me
is when you say that is that
00:28:01.84\00:28:06.43
there are kids that are
doing that and nobody knows and
00:28:06.47\00:28:10.26
until all the sudden, like
you said, didn't you wear that
00:28:10.30\00:28:14.06
same shirt all
week long or whatever.
00:28:14.09\00:28:16.48
The child has to play it
off, I met a child in her first
00:28:16.52\00:28:20.88
grade that was stealing food
to eat so that stuff happens.
00:28:20.91\00:28:24.61
When you tell the story and
you are saying this right now,
00:28:24.64\00:28:28.30
there is a part of me
that says it is hard to believe
00:28:28.33\00:28:31.48
that people or kids
are having to learn that.
00:28:31.51\00:28:35.93
You are very self-reliant.
00:28:35.97\00:28:37.88
Also he had a woman at the
CP school, she is still in his
00:28:37.92\00:28:44.75
life, her name is Ingo Horvitz.
00:28:44.79\00:28:47.82
She lives in Richmond
Virginia and see was the
00:28:47.86\00:28:50.70
occupational
therapist at the school.
00:28:50.74\00:28:52.59
She has known Jim since he
was four or five years old and
00:28:52.62\00:28:58.96
she said Lori I started taking
notes on him and his life.
00:28:59.00\00:29:05.23
She has bought him things,
she was very excited when we
00:29:05.26\00:29:11.46
were married and
had our children.
00:29:11.49\00:29:13.49
We saw her this
summer, we went to visit her.
00:29:13.53\00:29:17.54
She is so amazed,
knowing his background.
00:29:17.58\00:29:23.97
So did you get any
kind of Christianity,
00:29:24.00\00:29:30.35
any of that growing up?
00:29:30.39\00:29:32.27
No, when I was small I only
heard about God in a negative
00:29:32.31\00:29:37.90
way as far as the
swearing and that kind of thing.
00:29:37.94\00:29:40.32
No Christian
training or anything.
00:29:40.35\00:29:42.60
So I really admire people
that have the Christian home
00:29:42.64\00:29:47.64
and I am glad that everybody
doesn't have to go through
00:29:47.68\00:29:52.65
what I did. - yeah,
because sometimes when I started
00:29:52.68\00:29:56.00
listening to some of the
more normal lives and heard
00:29:56.04\00:29:59.84
people talking about
being loved and being wrapped up
00:29:59.87\00:30:03.21
and held as a baby, or
loved on as a little kid and
00:30:03.24\00:30:06.17
there was a part of me
that would tear up and say
00:30:06.21\00:30:09.10
I wonder what that feels like?
00:30:09.14\00:30:10.98
And the same with you is I
wonder what that feels like
00:30:11.02\00:30:13.35
because you didn't know.
00:30:13.39\00:30:14.91
Well your mom
loved you, she loved you.
00:30:14.94\00:30:17.49
By then he was
raised by foster care.
00:30:17.53\00:30:19.74
- how did you
get in foster care?
00:30:19.77\00:30:21.91
When I was about eight years
old my mother and stepfather
00:30:21.95\00:30:27.39
were arrested, after they've
figured out I was by myself
00:30:27.42\00:30:32.82
then they put me in foster care.
00:30:32.86\00:30:35.22
What were your
foster folks like?
00:30:35.25\00:30:37.55
Most of them were very nice
and I think they did the best
00:30:37.58\00:30:41.86
they could, I don't want
to make anyone think they were
00:30:41.89\00:30:46.13
all bad or anything like that.
00:30:46.17\00:30:47.42
I never really felt
part of their family.
00:30:47.46\00:30:50.07
When you say most of them,
you were with more than one
00:30:50.10\00:30:52.69
foster family? -
right, about eight.
00:30:52.73\00:30:54.99
- about eight! -
yes. - oh shut up.
00:30:55.03\00:30:57.23
You poor thing, I just
want to grab you and say I'm so
00:30:57.26\00:31:00.58
sorry, because there is a
part of me that says God does
00:31:00.62\00:31:03.72
have to come in and
change a lot of things, but the
00:31:03.75\00:31:06.47
damage that happened to a
child that is not loved and
00:31:06.51\00:31:09.69
passed around and not
belonging is absolutely huge.
00:31:09.72\00:31:13.96
There is something so to
the core of who you are that
00:31:13.99\00:31:18.19
doesn't get nurtured or fed.
00:31:18.23\00:31:21.08
How did you survive those?
00:31:21.11\00:31:23.89
Well I think that God gave
me a strong constitution and
00:31:23.92\00:31:30.03
determination, I think that
is the only way to explain it.
00:31:30.07\00:31:35.46
- somehow He poured into
you survival skills. - right.
00:31:35.50\00:31:39.67
Now I will have to admit
that there were times that I had
00:31:39.71\00:31:45.24
pity parties and depression,
having mixed feelings about
00:31:45.28\00:31:49.81
myself and my future,
wondering how I was going to get
00:31:49.85\00:31:54.35
past my past and
knowing my future looked bleak.
00:31:54.39\00:32:01.41
With that, how did you
get to a point where things
00:32:01.45\00:32:08.43
started turning around for you?
00:32:08.47\00:32:10.40
When I was about 16 and I
had gone through all these
00:32:10.44\00:32:13.68
foster homes, they had
ran out of places to put me so
00:32:13.72\00:32:17.50
they transferred me from
county care to state care.
00:32:17.53\00:32:21.28
- how come that does
not sound good to me?
00:32:21.32\00:32:23.76
It's not because when you
going to state care they have
00:32:23.80\00:32:26.79
to process you and you
go to detention centers,
00:32:26.83\00:32:30.58
what kids know
today as juvenile hall.
00:32:30.62\00:32:34.32
He became a juvenile case?
No! I fell through the cracks.
00:32:34.36\00:32:37.68
I was basically a good
kid but they didn't have
00:32:37.72\00:32:40.20
anywhere else to put me,
they didn't have anywhere
00:32:40.24\00:32:42.68
to put good kids.
00:32:42.72\00:32:44.38
So they processed me by
putting me through juvey and
00:32:44.41\00:32:50.73
then some of these
other institutions.
00:32:50.76\00:32:52.96
Then what did Ingo do? -
the women at the CP school?
00:32:52.99\00:32:57.68
Yes. - to me as far as
human people go, humans rather,
00:32:57.71\00:33:02.37
she is definitely a hero to me.
00:33:02.40\00:33:04.39
- she was like an angel? - yes.
00:33:04.42\00:33:06.34
So when I was at one of
these places, I'm going to get
00:33:06.38\00:33:11.03
teared up here, anyway I
was at one of these places and
00:33:11.07\00:33:15.13
she found out about it and
was so alarmed that I was in
00:33:15.16\00:33:18.74
this institution that she
contacted one of the people
00:33:18.77\00:33:22.75
she knew was a lawyer, or
a counselor and he started
00:33:22.79\00:33:25.93
trying to pull some strings
to get me out of there and
00:33:25.96\00:33:29.07
get me into a halfway house.
00:33:29.10\00:33:31.59
This is a teacher? She
was an occupational therapist.
00:33:31.62\00:33:36.91
So there were
people along the way.
00:33:36.94\00:33:39.73
- when you see her tell
her that we all love her.
00:33:39.77\00:33:43.40
I sure will. - you know
it's interesting as you talk
00:33:43.44\00:33:46.82
that a lot of people in a
number of ways fall through
00:33:46.86\00:33:49.85
the cracks and what you
are saying is they didn't even
00:33:49.89\00:33:52.37
know where to put you
because you had experiences that
00:33:52.40\00:33:54.85
you probably should
have never had in your life.
00:33:54.88\00:33:57.67
On top of that dealing with
cerebral palsy, dealing with
00:33:57.70\00:34:01.71
the fact that your
mom was not around.
00:34:01.74\00:34:04.45
The broken home, but drinking,
the drugs, and on top of
00:34:04.48\00:34:08.30
that my stepfather was
very, not only did he neglect us
00:34:08.34\00:34:12.12
as a family, he
was also very abusive.
00:34:12.16\00:34:14.57
Physically and emotionally,
so I was a mess when God
00:34:14.60\00:34:19.76
finally got my attention.
00:34:19.79\00:34:21.47
How did He did your
attention? Because that is my
00:34:21.51\00:34:23.55
favorite part of any story.
00:34:23.59\00:34:24.92
There is a book
called 'the Hound of Heaven',
00:34:24.96\00:34:27.54
He's on us like hound
because He wants so desperately
00:34:27.57\00:34:30.81
for us to turn around and
see His face because I will
00:34:30.85\00:34:34.05
never let you
go, and never let up.
00:34:34.09\00:34:36.53
I so want to teach you that
I'm here and have you turned
00:34:36.57\00:34:39.41
to Me and so how did
that happen in your life?
00:34:39.45\00:34:41.60
Well I guess I grew up
with the mentality that if we
00:34:41.64\00:34:45.13
want anything in life we
will have to get it ourselves.
00:34:45.17\00:34:48.63
That nobody, the world
doesn't owe us anything.
00:34:48.66\00:34:52.23
- nobody is going
to do for you. - right.
00:34:52.26\00:34:54.13
If you want something
you're going to have to do it
00:34:54.17\00:34:56.46
yourself and so it was a
pull yourself up by your own
00:34:56.49\00:34:58.75
bootstraps kind of mentality.
00:34:58.79\00:35:00.71
When I got to be about 16
or 17 and I had gone through
00:35:00.75\00:35:04.71
all these foster homes and
gone through the institutions
00:35:04.74\00:35:08.18
and state care and got
into a halfway house and got a
00:35:08.22\00:35:12.45
full-time job, by this time
they tried to reunite me with
00:35:12.49\00:35:16.69
my mother too and
that didn't work out.
00:35:16.72\00:35:19.05
We had so many issues,
neither one of us had, had any
00:35:19.08\00:35:22.55
counseling of any kind
and so we did not know how to
00:35:22.59\00:35:26.03
relate to each other.
00:35:26.06\00:35:27.03
We were so much alike but
we had so much pain with some
00:35:27.04\00:35:29.76
of the issues that we
didn't know how to deal with it.
00:35:29.80\00:35:32.65
Not only with ourselves, but
with each other so it was just
00:35:32.68\00:35:37.46
a compound that
never went anywhere.
00:35:37.50\00:35:39.39
And then there was the step
father, the second stepfather
00:35:39.43\00:35:41.24
that despised the
ground that Jim walked on.
00:35:41.27\00:35:44.45
- he came later,
he was very jealous.
00:35:44.49\00:35:45.93
- was a jealous of you,
were you a lot of work because
00:35:45.96\00:35:49.24
of the cerebral
palsy? - not really.
00:35:49.27\00:35:52.19
So it wasn't that
because you have learned to
00:35:52.23\00:35:54.15
take care of
yourself totally. - right.
00:35:54.18\00:35:55.66
But he was so attached to
my mother that anytime I took
00:35:55.70\00:36:02.45
away, so it was an interference.
00:36:02.48\00:36:05.78
Anyway, when I was 16 or 17
I had gone through all these
00:36:05.81\00:36:10.76
institutions and halfway
house and everything and an
00:36:10.80\00:36:15.50
attempt to reunite with my
mother I was working in the
00:36:15.54\00:36:20.21
Pennsylvania by then,
at a processing plant.
00:36:20.25\00:36:23.20
Here I am a vegetarian
working in a meat plant,
00:36:23.23\00:36:26.15
a meat processing plant.
00:36:26.19\00:36:27.57
- how did you do that?
It made you more vegetarian!
00:36:27.61\00:36:30.19
Yeah, yeah definitely, I
could tell you stories because
00:36:30.22\00:36:32.67
there are folks probably
say that will never give up
00:36:32.70\00:36:35.11
meat but if I
could tell you stories,
00:36:35.15\00:36:36.76
you would change your mind.
00:36:36.79\00:36:38.13
I heard some of the
stories they're disgusting so go
00:36:38.16\00:36:41.20
on with the story.
00:36:41.24\00:36:42.53
I was working at a processing
plant and there was a girl
00:36:42.57\00:36:45.65
there about my age, 16 or
17 years old, named Debbie
00:36:45.69\00:36:48.74
she was a member of
the Mennonite Church.
00:36:48.77\00:36:55.07
She started
sharing Jesus with me.
00:36:55.11\00:36:57.09
What she was saying
just started sinking in.
00:36:57.13\00:37:02.98
Jim I have to ask you this
because in my own life, when
00:37:03.02\00:37:07.00
I started to realize, as a
neglected child, that there
00:37:07.04\00:37:10.99
there was a God and He
loves me, it was so cool.
00:37:11.02\00:37:15.62
When you started to realize
that there is a God and you
00:37:15.66\00:37:18.84
can turn it over and you
don't have to carry it all
00:37:18.88\00:37:22.03
yourself, how did that feel?
00:37:22.06\00:37:24.38
It was awesome because I
had a lot of issues and a lot
00:37:24.41\00:37:29.30
of weight on my shoulders.
00:37:29.34\00:37:30.77
I was at the point, I
came home from work one day.
00:37:30.80\00:37:34.42
I worked from 6 p. m.. to 2
a. m. shift, can you imagine
00:37:34.46\00:37:39.34
that? Then I came home
one morning after working and
00:37:39.38\00:37:43.21
I was sitting there on my
bed in the dark and looking
00:37:43.25\00:37:46.66
out the window thinking I
didn't really want to kill
00:37:46.69\00:37:50.15
myself but I was at the
point where I didn't want to go
00:37:50.19\00:37:53.61
on living the way I was.
00:37:53.65\00:37:55.33
I realized I had tried
everything as far as trying to
00:37:55.37\00:38:01.22
take care of my self and get
past my problems and get over
00:38:01.26\00:38:05.48
my hurts and all this, I was
like I can't do anything more.
00:38:05.51\00:38:09.70
I've gone as far as I can
go and it's not good enough.
00:38:09.73\00:38:12.61
I heard this still
small voice, Jesus loves you.
00:38:12.65\00:38:16.72
I argued with it a
little bit, no, nobody loves me.
00:38:16.76\00:38:20.79
Yes, Jesus loves you
and finally I said okay.
00:38:20.83\00:38:24.61
I knelt down by my bed and
I didn't really know how to
00:38:24.65\00:38:28.28
pray but I prayed the
simplest way I knew how.
00:38:28.32\00:38:30.95
I said Jesus if you love
me, I'll give you all that I am
00:38:30.99\00:38:34.74
and all that I have, it's Yours.
00:38:34.77\00:38:36.90
- come into my life,
and really it's fun to think
00:38:36.93\00:38:39.84
about that is that God doesn't
care we don't know how to pray,
00:38:39.87\00:38:42.05
He says just talk to Me.
00:38:42.08\00:38:43.71
If you want to kneel down,
kneel down because it's a cool
00:38:43.75\00:38:46.21
thing to do, but if you
want to stand up, if you want to
00:38:46.24\00:38:48.67
do back flips was
talking to Me, just talk away.
00:38:48.70\00:38:51.55
I asked you to, you wrote a
song, 'A Still Small Voice',
00:38:51.59\00:38:55.63
I asked you if you would
sing that and I would like you
00:38:55.66\00:38:59.67
to sing that and tell us
about the song, about why
00:38:59.71\00:39:05.08
you wrote it, and
what it means to you?
00:39:05.11\00:39:07.69
It is amazing, the first
time I heard it I just hummed
00:39:07.72\00:39:11.61
the whole time, I couldn't
stop repeating it because it
00:39:11.64\00:39:15.49
was so incredible, so we
are going to go ahead and
00:39:15.52\00:39:17.83
have you do that.
00:39:17.87\00:39:19.21
Ben is going to go ahead
and bring your guitar over.
00:39:19.25\00:39:24.25
Start telling us a
little bit about the song
00:39:24.29\00:39:27.88
while he does that.
00:39:27.92\00:39:29.12
Okay the song is
called, 'A Still Small Voice'
00:39:29.16\00:39:31.63
and it is based on what
I told you of my testimony.
00:39:31.67\00:39:37.09
But it is primarily based
on the story that took place
00:39:37.13\00:39:42.51
before the song was written.
00:39:42.55\00:39:44.12
I was at a one-day workshop,
and I couldn't even tell
00:39:44.16\00:39:48.22
you what the
workshop was all about.
00:39:48.26\00:39:49.84
In the workshop the host
gave everyone pieces of paper
00:39:49.88\00:39:55.47
and gave us pencils and
said what I want you to do is
00:39:55.50\00:39:59.90
draw a line down the
middle and I want you to put all
00:39:59.93\00:40:04.89
your good points on the
left and all your and all your
00:40:04.92\00:40:09.84
bad points on
the right and I want
00:40:09.88\00:40:12.21
you to be painfully honest.
00:40:12.25\00:40:13.83
No one is going to see
this paper, not even me.
00:40:13.87\00:40:16.00
I want you to write all of
this down, I think the reason
00:40:16.03\00:40:19.23
he did that was so he
could tell how well we knew
00:40:19.26\00:40:23.45
ourselves and so
that is what I did.
00:40:23.48\00:40:25.71
Needless to say one side
was nearly full and hardly
00:40:25.75\00:40:30.20
anything on the other side.
00:40:30.23\00:40:32.12
That is what I thought when
you said that, oh man I would
00:40:32.16\00:40:34.81
have a blank one side,
especially during the first part
00:40:34.84\00:40:37.54
of recovery. - right and I
thought, sometimes I thought
00:40:37.57\00:40:40.14
back and thought it would
be fun if I still had that
00:40:40.18\00:40:42.83
piece of paper, but I
don't think I have it anymore.
00:40:42.86\00:40:45.44
Everybody at home probably
made that paper for themselves
00:40:45.47\00:40:49.24
and put the line down and
realized that on their one
00:40:49.27\00:40:52.29
side, the negative
stuff fill that up.
00:40:52.33\00:40:54.24
So I totally
understood what you said.
00:40:54.27\00:40:56.47
What is really neat is when
you thinking about the fact that
00:40:56.50\00:41:01.27
I don't have that list anymore
is that I do not need to have
00:41:01.30\00:41:03.24
the things on the
list either because
00:41:03.27\00:41:05.39
I can give them all to God.
00:41:05.43\00:41:07.08
So go ahead and
sing the song for us.
00:41:07.11\00:41:08.62
Thank you.
00:41:08.66\00:41:09.63
Sometimes I get discouraged,
00:41:18.73\00:41:22.20
feel down and sort of blue.
00:41:22.24\00:41:25.64
The still small voice behind me,
00:41:25.68\00:41:29.06
says Jesus died for you.
00:41:29.10\00:41:32.42
Sometimes I start complaining,
00:41:32.45\00:41:36.21
when things don't go my way.
00:41:36.24\00:41:39.77
A still small voice behind me,
00:41:39.80\00:41:43.37
says I'll walk with you today.
00:41:43.41\00:41:46.94
Sometimes I
lacked self-confidence,
00:41:49.37\00:41:52.96
have poor self-esteem.
00:41:53.00\00:41:56.16
A still small voice behind me,
00:41:56.20\00:41:59.63
says my strength can intervene.
00:41:59.66\00:42:03.03
Sometimes I tend
to put things off,
00:42:03.06\00:42:07.18
don't know what to do.
00:42:07.21\00:42:10.34
A still small voice behind me,
00:42:10.37\00:42:14.05
says I will see you through.
00:42:14.09\00:42:17.73
Sometimes I'm independent,
a proud and selfish man.
00:42:19.60\00:42:26.75
A still small voice behind me,
00:42:26.78\00:42:30.42
says behold my feet and hands.
00:42:30.46\00:42:34.03
Sometimes I asked
why he cares for me,
00:42:34.06\00:42:37.55
and how I need to know.
00:42:37.58\00:42:40.86
A still small voice behind me,
00:42:40.89\00:42:45.53
says because I love you so.
00:42:45.56\00:42:50.16
Amen, Amen the fact that
God took every single negative
00:42:55.99\00:43:00.27
that you wrote down He
said let me just tell you the
00:43:00.31\00:43:04.55
truth about that negative.
00:43:04.59\00:43:06.29
I love you and I died for
you and I will walk you through
00:43:06.33\00:43:09.58
that because that is amazing.
00:43:09.61\00:43:11.83
So when you turned it over
to God what were the changes
00:43:11.87\00:43:16.60
in your life, what was the
changes in yourself personally?
00:43:16.64\00:43:22.28
I had to learn social skills,
feeling comfortable being
00:43:22.32\00:43:26.67
around other people. -
wasn't that the hardest thing?
00:43:26.71\00:43:30.26
Yeah. - I think normal folks
that know how to do that have
00:43:30.29\00:43:33.81
no idea how it
is. It is so tough.
00:43:33.84\00:43:36.19
To even say how do you walk
under a conversation and just
00:43:36.23\00:43:39.69
join in, I had no idea.
00:43:39.72\00:43:41.34
Learning what is appropriate
to say or do, and I know
00:43:41.38\00:43:47.21
several years ago I somehow
got involved in door-to-door
00:43:47.24\00:43:53.04
selling and that was
such a turning point for me.
00:43:53.07\00:43:56.23
When I was very small, like
two, three years old, I was so
00:43:56.26\00:44:01.43
afraid of people, so backwards
socially that I would burst
00:44:01.46\00:44:05.57
into tears if I was approached
to quickly by a stranger.
00:44:05.60\00:44:09.58
So God just said let me let
you practice this so you are
00:44:09.61\00:44:13.55
okay. - I learned that
it is not all about me,
00:44:13.58\00:44:17.84
but about what
Jesus can do through me.
00:44:17.87\00:44:20.71
What's amazing to me too
is the more I learn somebody's
00:44:20.75\00:44:24.81
testimony shared with me,
who they were as a kid and how
00:44:24.84\00:44:28.87
God has led them, I
feel such a love for them.
00:44:28.90\00:44:31.63
Even as you are talking
and share that I feel such a
00:44:31.67\00:44:34.64
love for you and the
things that you have overcome in
00:44:34.67\00:44:37.61
your life and
how you let God lead.
00:44:37.64\00:44:39.49
As we open up and
share with people, we get
00:44:39.53\00:44:43.00
closer together
not further apart.
00:44:43.04\00:44:45.09
I think the devil convinces
us, don't say that because
00:44:45.13\00:44:48.27
people will think you
are strange, it is not true.
00:44:48.30\00:44:54.07
We end up gaining a love
based compassion for what
00:44:54.10\00:44:59.83
people have gone
through, how cool is that?
00:44:59.87\00:45:02.58
I'm going to jump way up
because you guys got married and
00:45:02.61\00:45:04.95
that's probably a
great story for another show.
00:45:04.98\00:45:06.98
I want to meet your son, you
have a son now that I've met.
00:45:07.01\00:45:09.99
He told me some
stories of how he found God.
00:45:10.02\00:45:13.86
You know where to go with this.
00:45:13.90\00:45:17.90
He was 13, I think it was
really a neat time that he
00:45:17.93\00:45:26.74
heard God's voice, he heard
the voice of the Holy Spirit.
00:45:26.77\00:45:29.84
That was in 1999.
00:45:29.87\00:45:32.45
- hey let's let
Jonathan tell the story.
00:45:32.49\00:45:34.57
Jonathan. - well at this
time I was doing door-to-door
00:45:34.61\00:45:40.16
sales or mega-booking.
00:45:40.20\00:45:41.98
There is this program where
they didn't allow you to have
00:45:42.02\00:45:49.28
any CD players or
any type of music.
00:45:49.32\00:45:52.91
My daughter would
die, if you took her music
00:45:52.95\00:45:56.08
away she would die.
00:45:56.12\00:45:57.42
We were highly
isolated, it was just crazy.
00:45:57.46\00:46:03.23
So during this time I was
like really upset and I didn't
00:46:03.26\00:46:09.55
want to do anything but I
had to because at that program
00:46:09.58\00:46:14.40
my parents were there and it
would be really embarrassing.
00:46:14.43\00:46:19.21
- you were selling
Christian books door-to-door.
00:46:19.24\00:46:24.86
This one day I went out
and I was going down this
00:46:24.89\00:46:30.16
one street and I saw
this house and I was thinking
00:46:30.19\00:46:35.42
I don't want to do
that house because it had
00:46:35.46\00:46:36.66
a beware of dog sign.
00:46:36.69\00:46:38.27
It had a big fence around
it and I was thinking I'm not
00:46:38.31\00:46:41.91
going to do that house.
00:46:41.95\00:46:43.16
- I want to live past today.
00:46:43.20\00:46:44.84
Yeah, really so I went up
to one side of the street and
00:46:44.87\00:46:49.66
kept thinking no I'm
not going to do that house.
00:46:49.70\00:46:53.00
There was this voice in my
head that kept saying you need
00:46:53.03\00:46:55.70
to do that house.
00:46:55.74\00:46:57.08
So I got to the house and
I was no I'm not going to do
00:46:57.12\00:47:02.02
that house, so I passed the
house and got it a few houses
00:47:02.06\00:47:06.92
down and couldn't
believe I was going to do this.
00:47:06.96\00:47:10.13
I turned around and
went back to the house.
00:47:10.16\00:47:13.41
- because God never lets
up, if He impresses you to do
00:47:13.45\00:47:16.56
something He will not let up.
00:47:16.60\00:47:18.10
That is right! So I got
back to the house and went
00:47:18.13\00:47:22.37
through the gate and I was
like, I'm crazy for doing this.
00:47:22.41\00:47:28.21
So I got to the door and I
knocked on it and there was no
00:47:28.24\00:47:32.72
answer, then this huge dog
comes running around the house.
00:47:32.76\00:47:37.20
He was probably German
Shepherd up past my waist.
00:47:37.24\00:47:43.04
I was freaking out -and
knocking on the door I'm sure?
00:47:43.08\00:47:51.31
I was shaking inside, I was
going bonkers, but outside it
00:47:51.35\00:47:59.55
was like I was calm still.
00:47:59.58\00:48:01.60
This dog is on the porch
and was barking and growling the
00:48:01.63\00:48:07.14
entire time, but there
was like a wall or a line
00:48:07.17\00:48:11.33
he couldn't go past.
00:48:11.37\00:48:12.72
So I was standing there,
it seemed like forever, it was
00:48:12.75\00:48:18.04
like 10 minutes or
something and I was knocking and
00:48:18.08\00:48:23.34
knocking and
knocking and waiting.
00:48:23.37\00:48:25.34
Something kept
telling me you need to wait.
00:48:25.38\00:48:28.26
I was like well I've gotten
this far in the dog hasn't
00:48:28.29\00:48:32.27
attacked me so I might as
well listened to the voice.
00:48:32.31\00:48:36.25
So finally this
little elderly lady comes out
00:48:36.28\00:48:41.97
and she has this look of
shock on her face, amazement.
00:48:42.00\00:48:45.46
You're the first person that
hasn't called me ahead of time,
00:48:45.50\00:48:52.36
that hasn't been
mauled by my dog.
00:48:52.40\00:48:55.65
I was amazed by that, but I
didn't show it to her I just
00:48:55.69\00:49:03.91
went ahead with my
canvas being the salesman I am.
00:49:03.94\00:49:09.86
I canvassed her on the Great
Controversy and Peace Above
00:49:09.90\00:49:18.75
the Storm and she
ended up getting those books.
00:49:18.79\00:49:22.79
That was a real blessing for me.
00:49:22.82\00:49:24.83
- you probably got them
because she knew that God's hand
00:49:24.87\00:49:27.42
was on you, you were
alive still at her door.
00:49:27.46\00:49:32.28
So is that when
God became real to you?
00:49:32.31\00:49:33.92
Yes, I mean I was like wow
how can He keep dogs from me?
00:49:33.95\00:49:42.30
All this stuff was
happening, how else would I hear
00:49:42.34\00:49:50.52
a voice in my head
about going to this house?
00:49:50.55\00:49:53.71
That was kind of
a spiritual high,
00:49:53.74\00:50:00.64
but I still wasn't won over yet.
00:50:00.67\00:50:07.54
I remember you tell me you
really got a lot of good stuff
00:50:07.58\00:50:11.34
from Pastor Dan at Black
Hills when you moved there with
00:50:11.38\00:50:15.11
your folks. - yeah,
in between that time
00:50:15.15\00:50:20.48
I was just crazy
and wouldn't listen.
00:50:20.51\00:50:25.78
You're just arguing with
your folks. - yet I would listen
00:50:25.81\00:50:28.75
to them but we moved to
Black Hills and it was like
00:50:28.79\00:50:32.08
Green acres out in
the middle of nowhere.
00:50:32.11\00:50:36.45
At first I didn't like it
but it started growing on me.
00:50:36.48\00:50:42.76
Then our neighbor Pastor
Dan and Patsy and his two sons.
00:50:42.79\00:50:50.30
I became friends with
their children so during Friday
00:50:50.33\00:50:56.16
afternoon's he would start
having youth meetings and we
00:50:56.19\00:51:01.98
will go over there and
sing out of the hymnals.
00:51:02.01\00:51:04.71
Then we would have Bible
studies with a group and it
00:51:04.74\00:51:10.06
started getting me closer,
but I didn't notice it yet.
00:51:10.09\00:51:16.25
So basically I started
doing personal Bible studies
00:51:16.29\00:51:22.42
with them and he
invited me to do that and
00:51:22.45\00:51:24.57
I started doing that.
00:51:24.60\00:51:26.33
I eventually gave my
heart to God and was baptized.
00:51:26.36\00:51:33.58
I think like Jim when you
were talking about your whole
00:51:33.62\00:51:38.45
testimony too is that
God worked in your life, with
00:51:38.49\00:51:42.94
you guys being married and
that is an incredible story.
00:51:42.98\00:51:47.00
What we don't have time and
then God was working on your
00:51:47.04\00:51:51.63
son and that still small voice
is speaking to every single
00:51:51.67\00:51:56.23
one of us, every
single one of you.
00:51:56.27\00:51:58.02
And now is leading you Jonathan
to closer walk with God.
00:51:58.06\00:52:02.45
I know there is questions
today and I would like to first
00:52:02.48\00:52:06.84
start with Sam, Sam
do you have a question?
00:52:06.87\00:52:08.26
Jim you mentioned the Mennonite
young lady who was the one
00:52:08.29\00:52:15.15
who introduced you to Jesus.
Briefly if you could tell us
00:52:15.18\00:52:20.50
how did you become a
Seventh-day Adventist Christian?
00:52:20.53\00:52:26.33
Well after I surrendered my
life to the Lord while I was
00:52:26.37\00:52:30.41
living in Pennsylvania
and working at this processing
00:52:30.44\00:52:34.74
plant, I moved back to
Richmond Virginia where I was
00:52:34.78\00:52:38.36
originally from and got
a job in a nursing home.
00:52:38.40\00:52:41.92
The nursing home was
actually walking distance from a
00:52:41.95\00:52:46.22
local Seventh-day Adventist
church and I worked in the
00:52:46.25\00:52:50.49
kitchen washing pots and pans.
00:52:50.52\00:52:53.23
Would you wash my pots and pans?
00:52:53.27\00:52:55.91
- after the show. So my
supervisor at the nursing home
00:52:55.95\00:53:00.78
was a Seventh-day Adventist
and she started sharing
00:53:00.81\00:53:05.15
with me about the Sabbath
and some other things in the
00:53:05.18\00:53:09.08
Bible and she'd learned
that I was a new Christian and
00:53:09.12\00:53:12.99
didn't have a church home.
00:53:13.02\00:53:14.04
She invited me to church
and as soon as I got my first
00:53:14.07\00:53:19.46
Sabbath off where I work,
because people have to eat,
00:53:19.49\00:53:24.49
on weekends too so I started
going to church and I knew
00:53:24.52\00:53:29.48
from my first Sabbath at
church that this is where
00:53:29.51\00:53:31.80
God wanted me to be.
00:53:31.83\00:53:33.11
So you were
studying all those issues?
00:53:33.15\00:53:35.51
Right I started going and
kept going to church and one
00:53:35.55\00:53:39.65
Sabbath I just told the
pastor well, when are you
00:53:39.69\00:53:42.59
going to baptize me?
00:53:42.63\00:53:44.27
What I love and we
have less than a minute.
00:53:44.31\00:53:48.69
But what I love about your
whole story and listening to
00:53:48.72\00:53:52.31
how God has led, it is that
all of heaven really took you
00:53:52.35\00:53:55.91
on an adopted you.
00:53:55.94\00:53:57.38
It says we are adopted
into the family of God and joint
00:53:57.42\00:54:01.91
heirs with Christ and for
some of us that means everything
00:54:01.94\00:54:05.11
because we don't have a home,
we don't have family, we have
00:54:05.15\00:54:08.07
been put from place to place
and you will no longer be put to
00:54:08.11\00:54:11.00
another place, you are
for ever in this family.
00:54:11.03\00:54:15.34
I think how cool is that.
00:54:15.38\00:54:17.46
Do you have anything
else to say? Just quickly.
00:54:17.49\00:54:21.63
My only regret is that I
didn't get to know the Lord
00:54:21.66\00:54:26.85
sooner, but I don't dwell
on that, I dwell on the fact
00:54:26.89\00:54:32.04
I have the Lord now
and He is awesome and that
00:54:32.08\00:54:33.88
He is bigger than
any problem I have.
00:54:33.91\00:54:36.13
I can let go of my
past and live in the present
00:54:36.16\00:54:39.31
but look forward to the future.
00:54:39.34\00:54:41.17
Amen, I love that and like
you said the regrets about not
00:54:41.20\00:54:46.19
having God sooner,
somebody used to tell me that.
00:54:46.22\00:54:48.57
They said if one day Cheri
you are going to look at your
00:54:48.60\00:54:53.12
past and not regret any of
it, not want to change any of
00:54:53.15\00:54:57.49
it, I thought are they crazy,
are they absolutely crazy?
00:54:57.53\00:55:01.83
Did you hear about my past?
00:55:01.87\00:55:03.46
Now today, I wouldn't change
anything because it really
00:55:03.50\00:55:06.58
makes me who I am, I can
sit in front of people that have
00:55:06.61\00:55:10.35
hurts and dysfunctions
and I know what they have been
00:55:10.39\00:55:13.34
through, I know what they
feel, I know their abandonment
00:55:13.37\00:55:16.26
issues and I know there
is a God in heaven that says
00:55:16.29\00:55:19.15
I am bigger than that.
00:55:19.18\00:55:20.28
I will walk you every
step of the way and I promise
00:55:20.32\00:55:23.48
you will be healed and I
love that so I wouldn't change
00:55:23.52\00:55:26.65
a thing, we will be
right back stay with us.
00:55:26.69\00:55:28.99
Cheri Peters uses the
book, 'Coming Of The Comforter'
00:55:34.45\00:55:37.36
as a guide for the second
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00:55:37.39\00:55:40.82
Recovery, written by Lee
Roy E. Froom is a 320 page book
00:55:40.86\00:55:44.25
that offers every
sinner the knowledge that the
00:55:44.29\00:55:46.98
Holy Spirit is available to all.
00:55:47.02\00:55:49.02
3ABN now offers this book
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postpaid within the US.
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Call 3ABN at 618-627-4651
or go online to 3ABN.org.
00:55:55.93\00:56:02.63
I love the way God leads
us, I love the way He speaks to
00:56:16.51\00:56:19.38
us, I love the Holy Spirit
and that still small voice
00:56:19.42\00:56:23.47
that Jim sang about when he
reassures us of our recovery
00:56:23.51\00:56:27.53
and reassures us
of His love for us.
00:56:27.57\00:56:30.32
His presence in our life and
I'm going to read my favorite
00:56:30.36\00:56:33.28
text Jeremiah 29:11 and
has been from the very minute
00:56:33.32\00:56:36.79
I got into recovery.
00:56:36.83\00:56:38.10
When someone first read
this to me I wept like a baby
00:56:38.14\00:56:41.37
because it says, "for I know
the thoughts and plans that I
00:56:41.40\00:56:44.91
"have for you" and I'm thinking
nobody has plans for me.
00:56:44.94\00:56:48.11
Nobody has thoughts of me,
my mother didn't even want me.
00:56:48.15\00:56:51.28
She tried to self
abort six different times.
00:56:51.32\00:56:53.84
It says right here that
God, God has plans for me.
00:56:53.88\00:56:57.50
He has thoughts of me and
it goes on to say that "his
00:56:57.54\00:57:01.44
"plans for me are for peace
and not for evil to give me
00:57:01.48\00:57:05.97
"hope and a future. " And
verse 12 says, "then you will
00:57:06.01\00:57:09.70
"call upon me and you
will come and pray to me and
00:57:09.74\00:57:13.39
I will hear you. "
00:57:13.43\00:57:14.71
I just love that and you know
everybody here in this room,
00:57:14.74\00:57:17.72
everybody here watching
I'm sure has felt that sense
00:57:17.76\00:57:20.64
when they have called on
God and He has heard them
00:57:20.68\00:57:23.53
and spoke to them.
00:57:23.56\00:57:24.53
And 13 is one of my favorites,
and you have to hear this
00:57:24.54\00:57:28.36
part because it says, "then
you will seek me, inquire of
00:57:28.39\00:57:32.98
"me as a vital necessity in
your life and find me when you
00:57:33.02\00:57:37.57
"search for me
with all your heart. "
00:57:37.61\00:57:39.55
"And I will be found by you. "
00:57:39.59\00:57:42.28
I love the fact that God
says, search for Me, expect Me
00:57:42.31\00:57:46.44
to speak to you, expect
for Me to lead you in because
00:57:46.47\00:57:50.56
I have plans for you,
I have a future for you,
00:57:50.60\00:57:53.70
I have prayers for you and
one more thing I want to read
00:57:53.73\00:57:56.71
and it says the measure of
the Holy Spirit that we receive
00:57:56.74\00:57:59.65
will be proportionate to
the measure that we desire or in
00:57:59.68\00:58:02.56
the faith that
we exercise for it.
00:58:02.59\00:58:04.43
Ellen White said
that, if I'm not seeking
00:58:04.47\00:58:08.37
God for that kind of recovery,
if I am not seeking God for
00:58:08.41\00:58:11.44
that kind of
healing. I won't find it.
00:58:11.47\00:58:13.37
If I seek He will give me
as much as I need in order to
00:58:13.41\00:58:16.84
get into recovery, so I'm
going to beg you to seek after
00:58:16.87\00:58:20.27
God and until then
remember God is crazy about you.
00:58:20.31\00:58:23.45
And me too, see you next time.
00:58:23.49\00:58:25.65