Welcome to
Celebrating Life In Recovery,
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I'm Cheri your host and
this is going to be one of the
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best episodes ever and one
of the hardest, you decide.
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Come join us in the café.
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I love who God is, I love
the fact that He forgives us.
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I love the fact that He knows
every single thing about me.
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It doesn't bug Him.
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You know God's greatest
joy, and I read this in Steps To
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Christ going through the series
Celebrating Life In Recovery.
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In Steps To Christ in the
chapter the Work And the Life,
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it says that Christ greatest
joy was to work with us.
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To work with us, and it
doesn't matter how wretched
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we are, it doesn't matter
all our character defects,
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it doesn't matter
about that kind of stuff.
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His joy is to get us to
see ourselves as we really are,
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to hand it to Him and to
allow Him to bring us back to
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the place where we
were created to be.
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Who He knows we are and
I'm thinking Amen! I love that.
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I want to introduce the
people on the set because I have
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some people here
that I just love.
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I have Teresa, you are
going to be with us and this is
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the first time your with
us, I want to say thank you.
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Curly's your back again.
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And I love you - I
love you. -I love you!
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And Jeanette, Larry, Wayne
and Sherri you are back again.
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But you were here before
doing the radio show and not
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television so now we get
to hear you on television,
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which is fun.
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I've got to tell you when
I first met Wayne it was so
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funny, I'm at SoCal Camp
meeting and they asked me
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to be a speaker and it was
like my first time of going
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out into the
ministry and I was so nervous.
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Whenever I'm nervous and I
think you know what I better go
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shopping, get something
cute to wear or whatever.
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So I went out and got
this outfit, and I'm prayed up,
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I'm reading the Bible, and I'm
asking God to bless us and I get
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there and they're some
heavy-duty speakers there.
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Rojas was there, the youth
speaker from the conference.
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He is amazing, and we had
a guy from Breath of Life was
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there and they were amazing,
and then me and I'm thinking
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no way, and I'm so nervous.
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So I get up and I remember
getting up and just feeling so
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nervous and so
inadequate, and I'm such a mess.
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Just a heroin addict in
recovery who wants to hear that?
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But I absolutely love God,
so I get up and starting my
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testimony and all of a
sudden I feel the Holy Spirit,
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all the nervousness goes
away and I just feel like
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I am blessed and
so glad to be there.
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And after I get done, I
come down and Wayne comes up.
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Do you remember
what you said to me?
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Wayne comes up and says
to me, Cheri, come here.
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I said what? And he said do
you realize that your outfit
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is totally see through
it? Oh shut up! Shut up!
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Don't even tell me that.
I said totally see-through?
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So the whole time I'm up
there, I'm walking around,
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finally getting over the
nervousness, talking about who
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God is and my
outfit is see-through.
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I'm thinking I'm dead, I'm
so devastated, I'm thinking
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I'm never going to
show my face again.
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I go to room and said you
know God, first of all I have
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to find somebody, we're at
Camp meeting, I have to find
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somebody with an extra slip.
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Jeanette did you
bring an extra slip?
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She says I'm at Camp meeting,
I didn't even bring a slip.
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Why would I bring an
extra one if I did bring one,
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if I have one I'm wearing it.
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You know, so I had to
find somebody with a slip.
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You don't want to go up again
with the see-through outfit.
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So the women's Ministry
leader, who really does not want
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me up there
again with this outfit,
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is trying to find a slip.
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I'm in the room praying,
God, You could have told me.
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You could have told me,
You are God and know everything
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when I bought it You
knew that it was see-through.
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You could have gotten me a
slip, You could have had one
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just laying on my bed
when I walked in the room.
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Somebody forgot it in
a drawer or something.
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You know, and God said something
through the Holy Spirit.
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He said, Cheri aren't
you glad that the robe of
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righteousness isn't see-through?
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And I am like, oh Amen!
Amen! God covers us and He
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never sees our sin
again. He sees Christ.
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He sees Christ's robe,
He doesn't see our junk.
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He doesn't see the
stuff we struggle with.
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He doesn't even see our
relapses, how fun is that?
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He doesn't see how twisted
our mind is, none of that kind
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of stuff, He sees Christ.
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And I am thinking, Amen!
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I'm going to tell you a
story before I introduce you to
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the main guest, but until
then I want to say we have
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incredible folks here on
the set and you've met them.
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But I want to tell you a
story, I got this call, and I
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can't even tell you what
state because she really wants
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me to be careful about
people knowing this about her.
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So I got this call
from this girl's mother,
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and I'm going to
say from New York.
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I'll just pick a
state. From New York.
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Her mom calls me and
says, my daughter is a mess.
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Absolutely a mess and I am
afraid she will die, she will
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not survive this, she is
depressed, she suicidal, she is
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angry, and she is not
going to church anymore.
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She is in my face and I
can't even hold her anymore.
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I can't even comfort
her, she is so angry at me.
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I want you to work with her.
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I'm thinking, Oh! I don't
know about anybody else even
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in ministry, or in your friend-
ships when you feel in adequate
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when somebody ask you to do
something like that for them,
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I just felt overwhelmed.
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I thought what if God is
working with her already,
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and for whatever then he
will give us something to say,
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but I can't do it if
she is there and I am here.
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So somehow we have to
get where we are together.
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In the same state. So
I said, send her to me.
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She won't do that,
she won't even come,
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she hates everybody and
especially people in the church.
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So I wrote the book Miracle
from the Street and I said,
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I'm going to sign the book
and put my phone number in it,
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and I want you
to give it to her.
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If she reads it then
I want her to call me.
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So let's just do that.
Well she won't read it.
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Just give it to her and
pray like crazy that she
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opens this book, because
I really believe the book is
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about God, it's a
vindication of God's character.
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It tells that God is bigger
than anything we deal with.
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So I wanted her to have
the book and then call me.
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So she gives it to her
daughter, and I go on a trip.
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I know that I take all
these side things, but I got to
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tell you I went on the
strip and working with a guy
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named Ron Halverson.
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I don't know if anybody
knows him, but he is awesome.
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Like this gangster in
recovery and now a Pastor.
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He is fun, he's loud and some
thing like me, how fun are you?
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So anyhow we are working
together, doing a Camp meeting
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and I'm thinking Ron Halverson,
and I am doing a Camp meeting.
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You know what let's
do it a little different.
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And I had just ministered at
a strip club with a stripper.
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I had to pay a cover
charge to come in and minister
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with her, so I said what
if we have a cover charge
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at Camp meeting? And
somebody says can you do a cover
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charge at Camp meeting?
I said you know I can do
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whatever I
want, I'm the speaker.
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And so I said let's do a
cover charge, and the cover
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charge is you cannot
come to Camp meeting unless
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you bring somebody
that is an absolute mess.
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An alcoholic, a drug
addict, a sex offender, somebody
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that is porn addiction, somebody
that is beating his wife.
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You have to bring
somebody, and people are like,
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where do I find them?
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While in your own
family most of the time.
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If you're not finding them
there, and you can find them
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in your church, go
down to the Main Street.
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Because in this town we
were doing this Camp meeting in,
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Main Street it heroin was drug
of choice but a lot of addiction
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People started getting into
this, and started bringing in
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addicts, and it was hilarious.
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There was one girl that
came in drunk every single time.
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Her name was Beth, I love
her and Beth if you are watching
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you know that I love you.
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But anyhow Beth comes in
and Beth is drunk every time.
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Half the time asleep and
snoring like crazy in the front
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row, the only time she
came to was to say you know what
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Cheri Amen! And I'm thinking
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you're a little
bit late on the Amen!
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But anyhow, even the
last day, the last day,
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we are getting
finished and people are really,
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I'm watching addicts decide
to step into recovery for the
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first time in their life.
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So absolutely amazing,
but Beth comes, she had missed
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one meeting, and she knows
I'm flying out and she wants
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to do a one on one.
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She comes late at night
and I'm with all the organizers
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at Camp meeting, Beth is so
wasted that she cannot walk.
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Cannot walk, she has
her keys in her hand.
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I'd like to Um, I'd like
to give Cheri a ride home.
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cause I want to talk with her.
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People are like you are
not taking Cheri out of here
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in your condition,
and they are so serious.
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It was like people
around me protecting me.
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You are not going with her.
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I took the keys and I
said, Beth how bout I drive?
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Alright! We get into the
car and go back to the Bed and
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Breakfast I'm staying at.
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It is late at night by
this time, 1:30 in the morning.
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I said, maybe I can walk
her sober, we'll walk around.
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She was so drunk
that was not happening.
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So we walked by the lake and
around the lake, we walk out on
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the pier, I finally
think maybe I could just poof,
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and I pushed her in the water.
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It was freezing, freezing
cold and she sobered up faster
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than anybody I've ever seen.
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And we got to do ministry
and it was so fun, so fun.
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Beth now is in recovery,
and this has been a few
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years, so it is
amazing, amazing.
00:09:57.25\00:09:59.14
But anyhow I come home
from that Camp meeting and I'm
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checking my
messages on the phone.
00:10:02.58\00:10:04.60
And guess who called me?
Katie, I'm thinking shut up
00:10:04.63\00:10:08.90
how cool is that? She
says, this is Katie and my mom
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gave me your book and told
me that you want me to call
00:10:12.98\00:10:15.67
you, and I don't care if
you call me back, but whatever.
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Here is my phone
number and hangs up.
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I'm like Wahoo,
she called me, how fun.
00:10:21.33\00:10:24.86
I'm so thrilled,
so I call her back.
00:10:24.89\00:10:27.74
I tell her I'm doing a
weekend with Hyveth Williams,
00:10:27.77\00:10:32.73
I don't know if you know
her but she is so awesome.
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So high, Hyveth!. If you
are out there, I want to speak
00:10:34.53\00:10:38.42
at your church, no sorry
we are doing a show, right?
00:10:38.45\00:10:40.83
So anyway, I'm working
with Hyveth Williams, and I tell
00:10:40.86\00:10:44.92
Katie, fly into Idaho, because
that is where the ranch is
00:10:44.95\00:10:48.50
that I work at, so fly
into Idaho and I will have some
00:10:48.53\00:10:52.18
body pick you up at the
airport, and they will pick me
00:10:52.22\00:10:53.91
up in Baker, because I'm in
Baker Oregon at the time that
00:10:53.94\00:10:57.24
she is going to fly in because
I am a Pathfinder leader.
00:10:57.27\00:10:59.74
I don't know of anybody
knows what a Pathfinder is,
00:10:59.77\00:11:02.10
but they have me as a leader.
00:11:02.13\00:11:04.18
So I'm doing this pathfinder
event, somebody's going
00:11:04.21\00:11:06.65
to pick you up at
the airport in Boise,
00:11:06.68\00:11:08.56
they will fly you in
their private plane to Baker.
00:11:08.59\00:11:11.78
They are going to pick me
up in Baker and then fly to
00:11:11.81\00:11:14.57
Medford Oregon and we
are going to do a weekend.
00:11:14.60\00:11:17.67
You don't have to go to
the meetings or anything, it is
00:11:17.70\00:11:20.60
just a way for you and I
to hang out, but I will meet
00:11:20.63\00:11:23.81
you when you fly
in. So she says okay.
00:11:23.84\00:11:26.84
Chris Chapman is somebody
I work with that just buried
00:11:26.87\00:11:29.88
her son with a meth addiction,
she is going to meet with
00:11:29.91\00:11:32.99
Katie in Boise, and I
know the story is complicated,
00:11:33.02\00:11:36.46
but stay with me,
because it is so fun.
00:11:36.49\00:11:38.55
So anyhow, Chris going to
meet her at the airport and
00:11:38.58\00:11:41.06
get in the plane with a
friend that works for the
00:11:41.09\00:11:44.11
Ministry that has a plane
and they are going to fly us
00:11:44.14\00:11:46.47
to Baker and then flies us
to Medford and a storm comes in.
00:11:46.50\00:11:50.02
A horrible storm, and the
guy that flies the small plane
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can't fly it because he
doesn't have the right pilot's
00:11:54.37\00:11:57.69
license to fly in a storm.
00:11:57.72\00:11:59.67
So now instead of
flying to Baker and to Medford,
00:11:59.70\00:12:02.90
we have to drive, so
it is hours. Right, hours!
00:12:02.93\00:12:06.36
We are barely going to
make it there for me to speak
00:12:06.39\00:12:08.98
at this weekend thing.
00:12:09.01\00:12:10.62
But Chris picks Katie up
from the airport, Chris just
00:12:10.65\00:12:13.14
lost her son and
tells Katie the whole story.
00:12:13.17\00:12:15.83
A By the time they get to
meet me in Baker they are best
00:12:15.86\00:12:18.59
friends, Chris and her
have cried together, they have
00:12:18.62\00:12:21.76
prayed together, they
have loved on each other.
00:12:21.79\00:12:23.73
But you know what
Katie says, my mom is crazy,
00:12:23.76\00:12:27.31
I have no problems, I don't
know what she's talking about.
00:12:27.34\00:12:30.41
So I'm thinking, how
funny is that because her mom is
00:12:30.44\00:12:33.80
ready to kill herself
because she is so depressed over
00:12:33.83\00:12:36.47
her daughter, and the
daughter is saying mom is crazy.
00:12:36.50\00:12:39.01
She is the cutest Italian
kid, this girl was just as
00:12:39.04\00:12:43.42
beautiful, and kind of a
smart aleck you can tell.
00:12:43.45\00:12:46.65
But I said are you
sure there's nothing wrong?
00:12:46.68\00:12:48.75
You said nothing
other than my folks.
00:12:48.78\00:12:50.77
So we started driving
from Baker to Medford, right?
00:12:50.80\00:12:53.95
It is hours, this is going
to be a trip that is hours.
00:12:53.98\00:12:56.12
Up through the
mountains and all that stuff.
00:12:56.15\00:12:58.13
It was late at night
by this time and I realize
00:12:58.16\00:13:00.68
I'm speaking at 7:30 in
the morning, first thing in the
00:13:00.71\00:13:02.71
morning, never do that
to an addict in recovery.
00:13:02.74\00:13:04.86
We don't like getting up early.
00:13:04.89\00:13:06.52
But anyhow, so first thing
in the morning I'm the speaker.
00:13:06.55\00:13:09.78
So I realize I have to get
some sleep, I had to sleep.
00:13:09.81\00:13:13.17
You know what? This is
crazy, I can't talk to you guys
00:13:13.20\00:13:17.02
anymore and they were so
funny, joking and having fun.
00:13:17.05\00:13:19.71
I got in the back seat
and lay down, no matter what
00:13:19.74\00:13:23.18
you say I have
to get some sleep.
00:13:23.21\00:13:24.44
They would say a joke or
something and I would be up,
00:13:24.47\00:13:28.03
and do you think I just
got up and said, oh that was
00:13:28.06\00:13:31.19
funny and laid back down?
00:13:31.22\00:13:32.48
I got up and talked
and talked and talked, oh!
00:13:32.51\00:13:35.43
I have to go to sleep
and I would lay back down.
00:13:35.46\00:13:38.39
So finally I said, no
matter what you say, I am not
00:13:38.42\00:13:40.61
getting up, and you
know Curly, you are funny,
00:13:40.64\00:13:43.57
you are so funny, and I
know you would try to get me
00:13:43.60\00:13:46.67
with your jokes, and
that is what they tried to do.
00:13:46.70\00:13:48.52
Kept trying, kept
trying and kept trying.
00:13:48.55\00:13:49.97
So finally I thought, you
know what I can even listen
00:13:50.00\00:13:53.83
to them, and I started
to drift off to sleep and
00:13:53.86\00:13:56.88
I hear Chris
say, did you see that?
00:13:56.91\00:14:00.15
That was the cutest thing
I ever seen, how cool is that
00:14:00.18\00:14:03.99
and Katie said the same
thing, that was so cool.
00:14:04.02\00:14:06.87
Chris, turn around, go
back, oh man, did you see him.
00:14:06.90\00:14:12.31
Oh! He is so cute.
00:14:12.34\00:14:13.31
And I'm thinking
I'm not getting up.
00:14:13.32\00:14:14.97
I'm not keeping up,
you cannot get me up.
00:14:15.00\00:14:18.27
But then, the car
started to turn around,
00:14:18.30\00:14:22.06
and I'm thinking you
guys this is not funny,
00:14:22.09\00:14:23.38
we are going to barely make it.
00:14:23.41\00:14:24.96
And it is on such
a small country road,
00:14:24.99\00:14:27.10
through the mountains
that they literally had
00:14:27.13\00:14:28.84
to do one of these
kind of turns, right?
00:14:28.87\00:14:30.77
So they turn around and I
get up and I said, you guys
00:14:30.80\00:14:33.05
this is not funny,
we can't turn around.
00:14:33.08\00:14:34.95
And as I said that, I saw
another car turnaround to go
00:14:34.98\00:14:38.23
back to the same spot.
00:14:38.26\00:14:39.99
So everybody turned
around, and then the lights from
00:14:40.02\00:14:42.56
both cars went and did a
spotlight on the cutest raccoon
00:14:42.59\00:14:46.37
you have ever seen in your life.
00:14:46.40\00:14:48.44
Just looking up at
us, and he was adorable.
00:14:48.47\00:14:50.84
Adorable, kind of
like a baby raccoon.
00:14:50.87\00:14:53.45
I thought how cute is
that. Man, how cute is that?
00:14:53.48\00:14:58.22
So we are all saying the
same thing, how cute is that?
00:14:58.25\00:15:01.44
So we end up looking at
this raccoon and I realize as
00:15:01.47\00:15:05.78
I am looking at him
that the whole bottom part of
00:15:05.81\00:15:08.07
his body is smashed, smashed.
00:15:08.10\00:15:10.91
He is trying to pull
himself off the road.
00:15:10.94\00:15:12.88
No way, no way and so I
end up, we get out of the car,
00:15:14.57\00:15:18.44
and this guy that pulls
around with us in a different
00:15:18.47\00:15:21.51
car, he put his jacket on
him and got the raccoon off
00:15:21.54\00:15:23.51
the side of the road, and
we are looking at the raccoon
00:15:23.54\00:15:26.70
trying to figure out what to do.
00:15:26.73\00:15:28.06
Chris has just buried her
son, you have to remember this.
00:15:28.09\00:15:30.02
But she says you know
what? We have to give him to the
00:15:30.05\00:15:32.34
hospital, I said
Chris, it's a raccoon.
00:15:32.37\00:15:36.65
And I know that is sad
and all, but things get hit,
00:15:36.68\00:15:41.63
we are in the middle of
nowhere and I don't know where
00:15:41.66\00:15:43.94
a vet is, and she is like
I cannot leave this raccoon
00:15:43.97\00:15:46.96
here to die, we have to
take it to the hospital.
00:15:46.99\00:15:49.54
So I said, you know okay.
00:15:49.57\00:15:53.26
So we now get back in the
car and I have a raccoon on
00:15:53.29\00:15:56.70
my chest, and this
raccoon is bleeding.
00:15:56.73\00:16:00.73
I have to tell you,
bleeding and he is in pain.
00:16:00.76\00:16:03.35
He is afraid, I am not sure
why he didn't scratch me up.
00:16:03.38\00:16:07.64
But I held this raccoon, I
thought if I was dying what
00:16:07.67\00:16:11.16
would I want
someone to do for me?
00:16:11.19\00:16:12.86
I thought you know, pray
for me. Sing, just something.
00:16:12.89\00:16:16.85
It doesn't even
matter what it is.
00:16:16.88\00:16:18.39
But as I am going, do that
for me and so I started doing
00:16:18.42\00:16:21.97
that for the raccoon, I
prayed, God I know this animal
00:16:22.00\00:16:26.44
is afraid, and I know that he
is afraid and he's dying and I
00:16:26.47\00:16:31.49
can hear it in his breathing.
I just ask You to bring
00:16:31.52\00:16:34.09
peace to him, and
I started to pray.
00:16:34.12\00:16:36.71
I started singing simple
things, because I can't sing.
00:16:36.74\00:16:38.83
Just sing humble myself
in the sight of the Lord,
00:16:38.86\00:16:43.02
and I just started
singing and as I'm singing
00:16:43.05\00:16:45.44
I'm hearing Chris and
Katie talking in the front seat.
00:16:45.47\00:16:47.96
They are saying you
know what, when he gets well,
00:16:47.99\00:16:51.27
Chris says, I'm going to
adopt him, I'm taking him home.
00:16:51.30\00:16:54.18
This is going to be my pet.
00:16:54.21\00:16:55.50
And Katie is like, what
are we going to call him.
00:16:55.53\00:16:57.75
I'm listening to them,
and they said, let's call him
00:16:57.78\00:17:02.39
boo-boo, because he made, he
got in front of a car and got
00:17:02.42\00:17:06.42
run over, boo-boo. I thought
you guys are so creative.
00:17:06.45\00:17:08.58
You know so, anyhow they
are talking in the front and
00:17:08.61\00:17:12.00
I'm telling them, you know
what? He's not going to make it.
00:17:12.03\00:17:16.96
This raccoon is not going
to make it, and they're saying
00:17:16.99\00:17:19.55
no he'll make it.
00:17:19.58\00:17:20.70
I said we will not
be able to find a vet.
00:17:20.73\00:17:22.16
Well let's go to
the emergency room now,
00:17:22.19\00:17:24.06
let's just go to a
hospital, and I could see me now
00:17:24.09\00:17:27.49
walking in a hospital
with this raccoon and saying,
00:17:27.52\00:17:29.83
excuse is there a
Doctor in the house?
00:17:29.86\00:17:32.11
So I am thinking, you know okay.
00:17:32.14\00:17:35.51
So we end up driving
further and further, we end up
00:17:35.54\00:17:39.90
having this real
struggle with this raccoon.
00:17:39.93\00:17:42.36
But then the raccoon dies,
and I held him for a long time,
00:17:42.39\00:17:46.07
because I don't know when
life actually leaves something.
00:17:46.10\00:17:49.17
So I held him for a long time.
00:17:49.20\00:17:51.10
And I said, you know what?
You guys, the raccoon is dead.
00:17:51.13\00:17:54.94
They cried, I mean they cried.
00:17:54.97\00:17:57.01
We got out of the car and
found a place to bury this
00:17:57.04\00:17:59.26
raccoon and we are in
the middle of nowhere.
00:17:59.29\00:18:01.06
We dug this whole, and
Chris is going to do the eulogy.
00:18:01.09\00:18:05.22
I don't even know what we
were thinking, but as we were
00:18:05.25\00:18:08.61
getting ready to put this
raccoon in the hole we saw
00:18:08.64\00:18:10.71
a bear and I promise you, I
looked up and there was a bear
00:18:10.74\00:18:13.99
probably 15 feet away from us.
00:18:14.02\00:18:16.76
I screamed and threw the raccoon
and we ran to the car and
00:18:16.79\00:18:19.86
got in the car and drove away.
00:18:19.89\00:18:21.48
We saw ourselves with this
raccoon flying through the air
00:18:21.51\00:18:24.23
after all that and
couldn't stop laughing.
00:18:24.26\00:18:26.11
And then we didn't want
to laugh because we thought
00:18:26.14\00:18:27.95
how bad, we shouldn't be
laughing, that was a dead
00:18:27.98\00:18:30.52
raccoon. So every time
we stopped laughing we just
00:18:30.55\00:18:34.11
started laughing again
and I'm trying to stop myself.
00:18:34.14\00:18:36.45
I'm thinking is it wrong
to laugh, but you know what
00:18:36.48\00:18:39.82
it was just, and all of
a sudden I hear Katie and
00:18:39.85\00:18:44.24
she is sobbing,
absolutely sobbing.
00:18:44.27\00:18:46.43
Her laughter changed,
and now she is sobbing.
00:18:46.46\00:18:48.69
I said Katie, what is
the matter? Are you okay?
00:18:48.72\00:18:52.09
I'm thinking the
raccoon still, she said no.
00:18:52.12\00:18:54.89
My life is a mess, a
mess and I feel like I'm dying
00:18:54.92\00:18:59.45
on the side of the road
and nobody is picking me up.
00:18:59.48\00:19:01.51
Nobody is picking me up.
00:19:01.54\00:19:03.27
This show is going to
be about God picks us up.
00:19:03.30\00:19:06.17
You have to hear me
with that, is what I said is
00:19:06.20\00:19:08.71
that Katie you're in a
car, stop you are in a car
00:19:08.74\00:19:11.61
with two women that
are fanatical about God.
00:19:11.64\00:19:14.35
I would do anything for
you to see the healing power of
00:19:14.38\00:19:17.07
God, the God I know.
00:19:17.10\00:19:18.25
I don't care what you
have done, I don't care what
00:19:18.28\00:19:20.15
you have got yourself lost
in, that God wants to reach
00:19:20.18\00:19:23.59
in and pull you up.
00:19:23.62\00:19:25.77
And he doesn't want to do
that to hold to while you are
00:19:25.80\00:19:28.07
dying, He wants to
pour life into you.
00:19:28.10\00:19:30.06
I promise you that
God will be faithful.
00:19:30.09\00:19:33.01
So we will be right
back, I want to introduce you
00:19:33.04\00:19:34.73
to the guest and I will
tell you the rest of the story
00:19:34.76\00:19:36.79
about Katie and that whole
thing because it is amazing.
00:19:36.82\00:19:39.45
Stay with us!
00:19:39.48\00:19:41.27
We want to introduce
you to a beautiful book
00:19:45.35\00:19:47.36
called 'Steps To Christ'.
00:19:47.39\00:19:49.02
Each program in this
series is based on a different
00:19:49.05\00:19:51.83
chapter showing you how
to become a Christian and
00:19:51.86\00:19:54.61
gain victory
over your addictions.
00:19:54.64\00:19:56.67
'Steps To Christ' is our
gift to you free of charge.
00:19:56.70\00:20:00.16
Just call us at:
00:20:00.19\00:20:02.73
Welcome back, you know
this is my favorite part of the
00:20:27.44\00:20:29.62
show and again, the show
is hard, it is hard for me.
00:20:29.65\00:20:32.93
We haven't even got into
the content yet, so you probably
00:20:32.96\00:20:35.71
don't even know
what I am talking about.
00:20:35.74\00:20:37.18
I want to tell you that the
last time, Wayne and Sherri,
00:20:37.21\00:20:40.84
you are going to
tell us your testimony.
00:20:40.87\00:20:42.42
You are going to talk about
what God has done in your life.
00:20:42.45\00:20:44.37
And the last time you and
I did a radio show together,
00:20:46.46\00:20:49.96
I triggered for three months
after that and got into all my
00:20:49.99\00:20:54.61
own stuff and thought I can't
do this and all that stuff.
00:20:54.64\00:20:57.71
I remember just praying,
and praying and saying, God
00:20:57.74\00:21:00.76
I can't do this and I
didn't even want to e-mail,
00:21:00.79\00:21:03.19
I didn't want you to e-
mail me and say something.
00:21:03.22\00:21:04.96
I didn't want to e-mail
back, and someone else had
00:21:04.99\00:21:07.76
triggered during hearing
your testimony and I was dealing
00:21:07.79\00:21:11.20
with them, I was dealing
with some kids that had gone
00:21:11.23\00:21:13.35
through some issues and finally
God said to me, in prayer.
00:21:13.38\00:21:18.82
This morning, that is
how long it has taken.
00:21:18.85\00:21:22.62
But this morning in prayer
what He said, Cheri I want you
00:21:22.65\00:21:25.42
to think about the worst
thing you ever did, ever did.
00:21:25.45\00:21:29.33
The worst thing that God
has come into my life and had to
00:21:29.36\00:21:33.45
work through with me, and He
said, do you feel forgiven for
00:21:33.48\00:21:38.53
that? And I did, I
thought I know I even teared up
00:21:38.56\00:21:42.34
because some of my stuff
is horrible with 10 years on
00:21:42.37\00:21:44.94
the street and strung
out on heroin and stuff.
00:21:44.97\00:21:46.87
I think you know I
did, I feel forgiven.
00:21:46.90\00:21:50.47
He said, do you feel like
the blood of Christ has covered
00:21:50.50\00:21:54.21
that and My mercy and
My Grace, and I said yes.
00:21:54.24\00:21:57.41
He said, don't be so
arrogant to think that you can't
00:21:57.44\00:22:00.81
forgive Wayne and I thought
oh man, I didn't even think
00:22:00.84\00:22:04.47
that was the issue.
00:22:04.50\00:22:06.00
I just want to say, I want
to ask you to forgive me for
00:22:06.03\00:22:08.79
having that stuff, that no
sin is different from another,
00:22:08.82\00:22:12.54
God looks at all of us as
we are dying in our sins before
00:22:12.57\00:22:15.67
He pulls us out.
00:22:15.70\00:22:16.90
I want you to just talk to
us about what is your story?
00:22:16.93\00:22:19.76
And before you get into
it, will you forgive me?
00:22:19.79\00:22:24.03
Oh, certainly! -
okay, good, good.
00:22:24.06\00:22:26.28
Well you talk about my
story and testimony, there is no
00:22:26.31\00:22:29.99
reason to share a testimony
unless it is going to be
00:22:30.02\00:22:32.86
a blessing to someone else.
00:22:32.89\00:22:34.25
Every person has a
testimony that is unique.
00:22:34.28\00:22:36.48
This is a tough one, we
shared years ago, we said
00:22:36.51\00:22:41.15
it was a tough one.
00:22:41.18\00:22:42.35
I am guilty being a
child molester. - convicted.
00:22:42.38\00:22:48.94
Convicted child
molester from 1992.
00:22:48.97\00:22:51.64
But praise God, He has
delivered me from that.
00:22:51.67\00:22:55.20
I have absolutely no urges
for molesting children anymore,
00:22:55.23\00:22:59.41
and that is only because
of God. Only because of God.
00:22:59.44\00:23:02.10
Early on in my recovery there
was times when I would feel
00:23:02.13\00:23:07.04
like you what am I going to
be struggling this my whole life
00:23:07.07\00:23:10.85
long and the answer is
yes, and the answer is no.
00:23:10.88\00:23:13.70
The answer is yes in that you
have to monitor yourself, your
00:23:13.73\00:23:17.34
entire life, and there are
things you cannot do any more
00:23:17.37\00:23:20.64
Wayne, you can not allow
yourself to be around children
00:23:20.67\00:23:23.93
isolated ever,
period. Okay - right.
00:23:23.96\00:23:27.68
Just like any addict,
it is a day to day program
00:23:27.71\00:23:31.58
in recovery. - that's right!.
00:23:31.61\00:23:34.10
But just because the code
of conduct is now set up in my
00:23:34.13\00:23:37.09
life, it doesn't mean that
God doesn't bless and bring
00:23:37.12\00:23:40.03
people into our lives
who need to hear this story.
00:23:40.06\00:23:43.25
They need to hear that it
is possible to be in recovery
00:23:43.28\00:23:47.91
and not have
those urges anymore.
00:23:47.94\00:23:50.66
We praise God,
it's completely Him.
00:23:50.69\00:23:52.76
Because there is a lot of
people struggling with this kind
00:23:52.79\00:23:56.23
of sin, even though their
own molest, though own early
00:23:56.26\00:24:01.25
childhood stuff or what ever,
but they struggle with this.
00:24:01.28\00:24:03.72
You are telling them, you
know what? God is so good that
00:24:03.75\00:24:06.84
even to us, He frees us.
00:24:06.87\00:24:08.17
It's almost like you
have to beg the church
00:24:09.81\00:24:11.89
to allow you to heal.
00:24:11.92\00:24:14.04
Sometimes,
sometimes that's the case.
00:24:14.07\00:24:15.72
Some people can't
handle it, and you know what?
00:24:15.75\00:24:17.92
That is alright. God
says, He will not test us beyond
00:24:17.95\00:24:21.15
what we can endure, so
even in those tough times,
00:24:21.18\00:24:23.47
I mean I tried to rent rooms
in people's homes early on,
00:24:23.50\00:24:27.42
after I was divorced, and
things were all set up and ready
00:24:27.45\00:24:31.55
to go, but I had to
share with them this testimony.
00:24:31.58\00:24:34.08
I felt I owed
them that courtesy.
00:24:34.11\00:24:37.08
Do you have to
register too, right?
00:24:37.11\00:24:39.45
I have to register, it
is a lifelong thing. Yes.
00:24:39.48\00:24:41.76
I owed them that courtesy
and they said you know what?
00:24:41.79\00:24:44.14
We appreciate your honesty
but we really can't handle
00:24:44.17\00:24:47.60
that, and I said I
understand and that is alright.
00:24:47.63\00:24:50.50
God will provide some
other way. And He has.
00:24:50.53\00:24:54.37
God has blessed, as we are
willing to let God into our
00:24:54.40\00:24:58.09
hearts and save look, I'm
trusting You here, because
00:24:58.12\00:25:02.18
no one else seems
to be trusting me.
00:25:02.21\00:25:03.82
I need You to provide Lord,
and He does. He really does.
00:25:03.86\00:25:08.77
He provides
accountability partners.
00:25:08.80\00:25:11.05
That is really what I would
like to emphasize during this
00:25:11.09\00:25:14.63
program is
accountability. - Amen!
00:25:14.67\00:25:17.30
But first I want to say,
even to the point of when you
00:25:17.33\00:25:20.31
say it is difficult
for people to forgive you.
00:25:20.34\00:25:22.75
For one people trigger
into their own stuff, like I was
00:25:22.79\00:25:26.19
a molest kid so people
trigger into all that stuff.
00:25:26.22\00:25:29.88
Feel like, what if you
reoffend, and all that stuff.
00:25:29.91\00:25:33.53
So people have a
difficult time, but I remember
00:25:33.57\00:25:37.05
you telling me a story
that even in your conference
00:25:37.08\00:25:40.80
where you worship, that
they made some rules at Camp
00:25:40.83\00:25:44.52
meeting that
were pretty intense,
00:25:44.55\00:25:46.44
can you talk about that?
00:25:46.47\00:25:47.77
Yes, interestingly enough
we have been attending Camp
00:25:47.81\00:25:50.59
meeting for seven or
eight years straight,
00:25:50.62\00:25:53.10
and been part of
the Ministry there.
00:25:53.13\00:25:55.38
I have been an audio engineer
at there and just love it.
00:25:55.42\00:25:59.01
It is high point
spiritually throughout the year.
00:25:59.05\00:26:01.30
And we are pretty close
with the conference leadership
00:26:01.33\00:26:04.28
too, but this last year,
because they had some legal
00:26:04.31\00:26:07.67
issues with another situation,
they made a new policy
00:26:07.71\00:26:11.34
that said anyone who is
registered as a sex offender
00:26:11.37\00:26:14.27
they are not going to be
allowed at the Camp meeting.
00:26:14.31\00:26:17.29
- so you can't even go
anymore? - no, no I can't.
00:26:17.33\00:26:20.43
And then they realized, we
didn't realize it applied to
00:26:20.47\00:26:23.08
you, and I said well I'm
not asking you to make any
00:26:23.12\00:26:25.79
exceptions here at all,
I just think you know what?
00:26:25.82\00:26:28.79
As a church, there is
only one organization on the
00:26:28.82\00:26:31.76
planet that really
needs to reach out to
00:26:31.79\00:26:34.03
everybody in their
dirt and their junk.
00:26:34.07\00:26:36.23
We have got to be able to
be protective of children,
00:26:36.27\00:26:40.09
absolutely, protective of
our precious children but also
00:26:40.12\00:26:44.19
redemptive at the same time.
00:26:44.22\00:26:45.86
So there has got to be a
way to have policies to make
00:26:45.89\00:26:48.23
sure that the children
are protected when they are in
00:26:48.27\00:26:51.40
church activities, there
is always two adults present,
00:26:51.43\00:26:54.31
there's always windows in
the doors when their Sabbath
00:26:54.35\00:26:57.20
school rooms are in other rooms.
00:26:57.23\00:26:59.74
If we can take those
precautions and still say,
00:26:59.77\00:27:05.34
you know what? We are
going to use the tools to find
00:27:05.37\00:27:08.46
out who is suffering,
or has suffered with these
00:27:08.49\00:27:11.98
addictions, and these
problems and use Megan's law.
00:27:12.02\00:27:15.44
Use the tools that are out
there to identify sex offenders.
00:27:15.47\00:27:18.22
If they want to
participate in a church program,
00:27:18.26\00:27:21.19
praise God, we want them
in the church safe, rather
00:27:21.22\00:27:24.12
than out side and offending.
00:27:24.15\00:27:27.28
But when you're saying
in the church safe, we want
00:27:27.31\00:27:29.99
to teach people how to
put in accountability programs
00:27:30.03\00:27:32.67
so that everybody is safe.
00:27:32.70\00:27:34.14
The kids are safe, the
victims aren't triggering,
00:27:34.17\00:27:36.95
and the offenders
themselves gets to walk in their
00:27:36.99\00:27:39.70
recovery, knowing they
have accountability around them.
00:27:39.73\00:27:42.54
- that is right, that is right.
00:27:42.58\00:27:44.19
It's amazing, can I? Before
we go there, because we are
00:27:44.22\00:27:47.45
going to stay on there,
but I know that you married
00:27:47.49\00:27:50.65
Wayne after you found out
about his sex offending stuff.
00:27:50.68\00:27:54.26
To me I am looking at you
as another woman thinking,
00:27:54.29\00:27:57.83
what were you
thinking? how did you do that?
00:27:57.87\00:28:00.37
And I want to say that
not in an offensive way, Wayne
00:28:00.40\00:28:03.89
because I do love you,
and I am sorry about my own
00:28:03.93\00:28:07.39
triggers when that
happens, but I know that
00:28:07.42\00:28:10.58
you had to struggle with that?
00:28:10.61\00:28:12.03
Sure, I would have never
at all, if anybody would have
00:28:12.07\00:28:15.25
said you are going to marry
somebody who is a sex offender
00:28:15.29\00:28:18.47
because in my mind you never
hurt a child, and you never
00:28:18.50\00:28:21.65
hurt an animal,
those are my two babies.
00:28:21.69\00:28:25.87
So when I met Wayne, I
thought wow, because we'd met
00:28:25.91\00:28:30.10
through Adventist singles
and he seemed like such a nice
00:28:30.14\00:28:34.30
guy, but within the
first week Wayne told me.
00:28:34.34\00:28:37.93
He said well Sherri before
you get to know me with your
00:28:37.96\00:28:40.14
heart, I want you to
know me with your head.
00:28:40.18\00:28:42.18
So he told me this is
what I have in my background.
00:28:42.21\00:28:46.50
I have a Jail Journal that
he wrote while he was in jail.
00:28:46.54\00:28:50.87
As he was coming to the Lord
and stuff, so he had told me
00:28:50.91\00:28:55.17
but I want you to read
this, take us home with you to
00:28:55.20\00:28:58.29
read, because I live in
a different town than him.
00:28:58.33\00:29:01.35
So I took it home and was
reading it, and about a month
00:29:01.39\00:29:05.28
after dating, well one of
the main things I said, was
00:29:05.31\00:29:08.39
I was going to watch him,
and the main thing you can do
00:29:08.42\00:29:11.46
is see how people
are by their actions.
00:29:11.50\00:29:14.32
People can say whatever
they want, they can tell you
00:29:14.35\00:29:16.78
they love you, they can do
whatever, or are not going to
00:29:16.81\00:29:19.20
do this again and I'm
going to do whatever, but if
00:29:19.24\00:29:22.12
they don't change, or
their behavior so I'm going to
00:29:22.15\00:29:24.59
watch him and how he
interacts with his children,
00:29:24.63\00:29:27.00
because even though he had
those he had his three children,
00:29:27.04\00:29:30.28
so I watched his
behavior and it was very good.
00:29:30.31\00:29:34.15
But what was funny is
about a month after dating
00:29:34.18\00:29:37.41
I was sitting on my bed
and I was just thinking.
00:29:37.44\00:29:40.59
My mom comes in and she
goes so Sherri, what's going on?
00:29:40.63\00:29:43.84
She said you look like you
are thinking really hard or
00:29:43.88\00:29:47.12
whatever, and I was like
well I was just thinking about
00:29:47.16\00:29:49.95
Wayne, she said, he just
seems like a really neat guy.
00:29:49.99\00:29:52.71
So I'm like, you know all of
us have baggage mom in our life.
00:29:52.75\00:29:56.49
She does yeah, and she
goes well it is not like he's a
00:29:56.52\00:29:59.94
child molester or anything.
00:29:59.98\00:30:01.73
And I am like well mom, actually
why don't you have a seat
00:30:01.76\00:30:06.45
over here and we talked.
00:30:06.49\00:30:08.55
And she was
molested kid. - right.
00:30:08.58\00:30:10.42
And her father had died
before she ever got to have the
00:30:10.45\00:30:13.57
talk with him or anything.
00:30:13.61\00:30:15.55
One of the neat things was
she was able to talk with Wayne
00:30:15.58\00:30:19.33
and have a lot of closure
on that, because she needed it.
00:30:19.37\00:30:23.50
She had so much guilt and
she was one of the people that
00:30:23.54\00:30:27.64
just can find guilt
and blamed herself for
00:30:27.68\00:30:30.17
a lot of things. So
that was really, really good.
00:30:30.21\00:30:34.03
So you have watched him
and believed in his recovery?
00:30:34.07\00:30:38.51
Yes. - and what is really
funny is that when we first
00:30:38.55\00:30:42.10
met years ago, I think I
watched you and believed in
00:30:42.14\00:30:45.66
your recovery, and
so that is kind of fun.
00:30:45.69\00:30:48.67
- you asked me if
you could kiss him.
00:30:48.70\00:30:49.94
- no, can I kiss him, I
know he is your husband.
00:30:49.98\00:30:53.88
- you can kiss
him on the forehead.
00:30:53.91\00:30:55.62
You know what I think,
the reason I wanted to do that
00:30:55.65\00:30:58.28
is that my father molested
me from three months old on.
00:30:58.32\00:31:01.28
I wanted somebody, it's
like when somebody says well
00:31:01.31\00:31:04.21
molester's don't get well, I
say that's gotta not be true.
00:31:04.24\00:31:07.62
Because I wanted my father
to get well, I want for people
00:31:07.65\00:31:10.89
in my life that have hurt
me in that way, I want them
00:31:10.93\00:31:14.13
to get well and
not hurt anybody else.
00:31:14.16\00:31:16.18
So I was so discouraged and
when I saw somebody actually
00:31:16.21\00:31:19.32
getting well, and really
fighting for that and holding
00:31:19.35\00:31:22.42
onto Christ, I just
had to give you a kiss.
00:31:22.46\00:31:24.65
I have to say I don't care
what it takes Wayne, for us
00:31:24.69\00:31:28.01
get well. - Taking account-
ability is what you said.
00:31:28.05\00:31:31.34
You saw somebody
take accountability.
00:31:31.38\00:31:33.68
Taking accountability,
stepping up to the plate.
00:31:33.72\00:31:35.63
You know victims need that,
and it is a shame that your
00:31:35.66\00:31:39.68
father didn't admit even
on his deathbed that you know
00:31:39.71\00:31:43.69
what? I did do this.
00:31:43.72\00:31:45.43
Because the victim says
did I imagine it? Did it really
00:31:45.47\00:31:49.38
happen? Am I crazy? - Was
it my fault?- Was it my fault?
00:31:49.41\00:31:53.70
There is no complete closure
and healing available when
00:31:53.74\00:31:58.61
the perpetrator doesn't say
yes I did it and I am sorry.
00:31:58.64\00:32:03.48
Can you please forgive me?
00:32:03.51\00:32:05.51
Now I say that understanding
that with Christ all things
00:32:05.54\00:32:09.11
are possible, all things
and He can heal our hearts.
00:32:09.14\00:32:12.64
But what a gift it is when
a perpetrator not only changes
00:32:12.68\00:32:16.95
through Christ's strength,
but then says to all his victims
00:32:16.98\00:32:21.22
I am sorry, can you forgive me?
00:32:21.25\00:32:24.20
And truly from
the heart means it.
00:32:24.23\00:32:27.11
And that is why I am so
blessed by you, I know from the
00:32:27.15\00:32:31.36
heart you are holding on
to your recovery and you mean
00:32:31.40\00:32:35.58
what you are saying.
00:32:35.61\00:32:36.86
I'm going to open it up for
questions, it's a little early
00:32:36.90\00:32:39.05
then we typically do
but I'm going to open up for
00:32:39.09\00:32:40.97
questions, we are going to
talk about your accountability.
00:32:41.01\00:32:43.47
That is my favorite thing
about you guys is that you keep
00:32:43.50\00:32:45.97
yourself accountable and
God is going to put you in a
00:32:46.01\00:32:48.28
ministry where you are going
to say this out loud people.
00:32:48.31\00:32:51.15
You are going to get nailed,
you know that? - oh yeah.
00:32:51.19\00:32:54.69
He promises not to test
us beyond what we can endure.
00:32:54.73\00:32:57.89
But you're going to feel
sometimes, did you remember that
00:32:57.93\00:33:01.01
God? And I say that I
admire the fact that you are not
00:33:01.04\00:33:04.08
going to shut up,
because you have gotten healed.
00:33:04.12\00:33:05.96
God is faithful to you.
00:33:06.00\00:33:07.95
So open up questions, Teresa,
we're going to talk to you
00:33:07.98\00:33:13.15
first, do you have
a question for Wayne?
00:33:13.18\00:33:14.83
When I was a teenager I
was molested by my cousin for a
00:33:14.86\00:33:19.44
couple years, and I always
feel guilty and I was thinking
00:33:19.47\00:33:24.02
why me? Why are
you doing that to me?
00:33:24.05\00:33:26.89
What am I doing that, I
don't know why feel like what am
00:33:26.93\00:33:31.76
I doing so you are trying to
tease me, trying to touch me,
00:33:31.79\00:33:36.59
why? I never understand
why he did that to me.
00:33:36.62\00:33:39.85
It has nothing to do
with you per se, you didn't do
00:33:39.89\00:33:42.83
anything that brought that on.
00:33:42.87\00:33:45.35
The person, was he
much older than you? - yes
00:33:45.39\00:33:49.23
- just a little
bit older than you.
00:33:49.26\00:33:50.23
Okay, that person has the
power, both physical power and
00:33:50.24\00:33:53.18
the mental power.
00:33:53.22\00:33:54.28
You weren't in a
position, how old were you?
00:33:54.31\00:33:55.97
I was 12. - you were 12
and you weren't in a position
00:33:56.00\00:33:58.51
really to think clearly, Oh why
is this happening at the time.
00:33:58.55\00:34:03.42
You were taken advantage
of. Okay? You were an object
00:34:03.46\00:34:08.78
to that person, they didn't
see you as a precious child
00:34:08.81\00:34:14.10
of God with a
soul, with feelings.
00:34:14.13\00:34:16.27
That person somehow had to
take the truth that you are
00:34:16.30\00:34:20.07
a precious real person
and push it aside and treat
00:34:20.10\00:34:24.14
you as an object and how
that happened for that person
00:34:24.17\00:34:28.18
you would probably
have to go back deeper.
00:34:28.21\00:34:30.26
I don't know what
happened in that person's life,
00:34:30.30\00:34:32.59
not that it excuses
what he did in any way,
00:34:32.62\00:34:36.19
but you will probably find
something in his background
00:34:36.22\00:34:39.48
that led to that.
00:34:39.51\00:34:41.42
I'm sorry, I'm sorry
that happened for you.
00:34:41.46\00:34:45.51
No one deserves that, we
have rights to our bodies.
00:34:45.55\00:34:49.36
No one has the right to
touch our bodies without our
00:34:49.39\00:34:53.79
permission, we need to
teach our boys, especially boys,
00:34:53.83\00:34:58.20
to be respectful
of girls and of women.
00:34:58.23\00:35:02.31
That needs to be something
we are intentional about in our
00:35:02.34\00:35:06.42
churches, especially
our churches. - Amen!
00:35:06.45\00:35:09.08
You know Teresa, one of
the things that I have learned
00:35:09.12\00:35:12.83
over the years is that
it stays with us forever.
00:35:12.87\00:35:16.30
I mean it just so much pain
with molest, and this violation,
00:35:16.34\00:35:22.46
there is so much pain and
so much the stays with us.
00:35:22.50\00:35:25.62
I really believe, and I
know that we are talking about
00:35:25.66\00:35:28.47
you and your healing but I
really believe that God wants
00:35:28.51\00:35:32.43
us, victims both male and
female to stand up and know
00:35:32.46\00:35:36.35
that He can restore
that innocence within us.
00:35:36.38\00:35:39.30
He can also restore that
sense of who we were before the
00:35:39.33\00:35:43.39
violation and we also
have to surrender that to Him.
00:35:43.42\00:35:47.41
You know God give that back to
Me, that was stolen from Me and
00:35:47.44\00:35:51.43
God wants to do that
both for the perpetrator and
00:35:51.47\00:35:55.95
for the victim because it
was never supposed to happen.
00:35:55.98\00:36:00.74
I want to now say Jeanette,
Jeanette you are criminologist
00:36:00.77\00:36:04.69
and you have dealt with the
subject in a number of ways.
00:36:04.73\00:36:08.62
Seeing both the victims
and perpetrators, what do you
00:36:08.66\00:36:12.52
want to say? - First of
all I want to talk about
00:36:12.55\00:36:15.59
accountability, I think it
is a very good word and a word
00:36:15.62\00:36:18.30
that the general
public needs to understand.
00:36:18.33\00:36:20.54
It is a mutual
responsibility, this is not
00:36:20.57\00:36:22.71
a responsibility just
for the perpetrator, but also
00:36:22.75\00:36:26.62
for all of us.
00:36:26.65\00:36:27.82
I grew up in New York
City, and my mother was very,
00:36:27.85\00:36:31.41
very protective of who we
stayed with and what we did and
00:36:31.44\00:36:34.63
what we wore. I think
these things are very important.
00:36:34.67\00:36:37.83
I think we tend to
just label the offender and
00:36:37.86\00:36:41.00
we don't label how
the offense came to be.
00:36:41.04\00:36:44.11
Criminal justice perspective,
criminals can't commit
00:36:44.14\00:36:47.41
crimes unless
there is opportunity.
00:36:47.45\00:36:49.33
I think that we leave a lot
of opportunity open out there
00:36:49.36\00:36:52.00
for children to be unattended,
we leave them alone at
00:36:52.03\00:36:54.71
home, we leave them with
the neighbor we don't know much
00:36:54.74\00:36:57.65
about, we send them on Camping
trips that the Church has,
00:36:57.69\00:37:00.56
all male or all-female
and we don't think about the
00:37:00.60\00:37:03.81
consequences or the
accountability that goes on
00:37:03.84\00:37:07.02
there because we are so naive.
00:37:07.05\00:37:09.23
I think accountability
requires that a lot of the
00:37:09.27\00:37:12.62
naive behavior dissipate
and that we in this sinful
00:37:12.66\00:37:15.95
world we live in that we
open our eyes because even with
00:37:15.98\00:37:18.54
Megan's law, even
with all the registry.
00:37:18.57\00:37:21.28
Explain Megan's law,
because a lot of people don't
00:37:21.32\00:37:23.54
understand what that is.
00:37:23.58\00:37:24.79
Well Megan's law is basically
that they are required to
00:37:24.82\00:37:28.25
register, every time
they move they are required to
00:37:28.29\00:37:31.18
register so that everyone
in the community has public
00:37:31.21\00:37:34.07
record of where the
sex offender are listed.
00:37:34.10\00:37:36.31
Although that might be well,
there are sex offenders that
00:37:36.35\00:37:39.52
are not registered yet and
they still live near you and
00:37:39.55\00:37:42.59
are offending, I think they
are offending because Megan's
00:37:42.62\00:37:45.62
law is a double edge sword.
00:37:45.66\00:37:47.75
If we take the sex
offender to the left is the one
00:37:47.78\00:37:49.74
we need to worry about,
but what about the ones to
00:37:49.78\00:37:51.70
the right that
hasn't been registered yet?
00:37:51.74\00:37:53.27
So I think what I am saying
here is mutual accountability
00:37:53.30\00:37:55.73
where they are in a
church setting, or you are in
00:37:55.76\00:37:58.36
a community, as parents,
and I have a child myself,
00:37:58.40\00:38:00.96
I have to be aware
of my surroundings.
00:38:01.00\00:38:03.42
I have to be aware that
everyone from the cable Guy that
00:38:03.45\00:38:06.01
walks into the house with
cables, anyone can be a sex
00:38:06.04\00:38:08.78
offender. - and women,
sometimes we don't think of
00:38:08.81\00:38:11.51
women, it is not
- the babysitter.
00:38:11.54\00:38:14.45
What about what she
pointed out, your relative?
00:38:14.49\00:38:18.55
Did you report him? -
no. - so how many of them in
00:38:18.59\00:38:22.31
our family that are not
reported that are right there.
00:38:22.34\00:38:25.70
No let me just say, I just
want to make a point where you
00:38:25.74\00:38:28.86
are saying Jeanette is
that was somebody I worked with
00:38:28.89\00:38:31.91
before told me that they
had their son a church and what
00:38:31.95\00:38:35.03
they would say to their son,
he was probably three or four
00:38:35.06\00:38:37.79
years old and would want
to go to the bathroom and they
00:38:37.82\00:38:40.15
were talking to a bunch of
other adults and they said,
00:38:40.19\00:38:42.48
just run in there
and go to the bathroom.
00:38:42.52\00:38:43.85
He was molested all the
time in the bathroom at church
00:38:43.88\00:38:47.83
when the adults
were in a meeting.
00:38:47.86\00:38:49.19
So just being able to say
that as you're talking about
00:38:49.22\00:38:53.09
Wayne is accountability
programs and that kind of stuff
00:38:53.13\00:38:57.06
is to in church not to be
paranoid, because God doesn't
00:38:57.10\00:39:01.00
want us to live
in fear or paranoia.
00:39:01.03\00:39:02.91
What He is saying is be
smart, certain places attract
00:39:02.95\00:39:06.19
people that look for
opportunities, and if there is
00:39:06.23\00:39:09.13
somebody trying to be
healed, that person needs
00:39:09.17\00:39:11.78
accountability, but if
there is somebody in there
00:39:11.82\00:39:14.36
that is not in healing and
is acting out, if you have an
00:39:14.40\00:39:17.34
accountability
program that is just there.
00:39:17.37\00:39:20.27
The children are not left
under attended, that people
00:39:20.30\00:39:23.43
are aware of what is happening
in the building and that
00:39:23.47\00:39:26.59
is a blessing, isn't that
what you're saying Jeanette?
00:39:26.63\00:39:29.15
What I'm saying to everyone
that is watching this program,
00:39:29.19\00:39:31.68
we have the tendency
of beating the dead horse.
00:39:31.71\00:39:35.69
Yes he is a sex offender,
yes he has paid his debt to
00:39:35.73\00:39:39.04
society and he served his time.
00:39:39.07\00:39:41.05
What do we do
from this point on?
00:39:41.08\00:39:42.99
How can a person change
if you are not given the
00:39:43.02\00:39:45.78
opportunity to change?
00:39:45.81\00:39:47.21
If you are eliminated from
everything that is mainstream,
00:39:47.25\00:39:49.85
how will you ever
know if you will reoffend?
00:39:49.88\00:39:52.35
It doesn't make sense,
it's like chopping off arms and
00:39:52.38\00:39:55.06
legs and say
walk, you can't do that.
00:39:55.10\00:39:56.71
You have to give the
person the opportunity, but that
00:39:56.75\00:39:59.70
requires accountable people.
00:39:59.74\00:40:01.94
From a church perspective,
looking at it from a Christian
00:40:01.98\00:40:04.61
perspective, I belong to
a church and if I know there
00:40:04.64\00:40:07.47
is a sex offender in the
church, whether they ask me to
00:40:07.51\00:40:10.09
be accountable or not, if
I see them get up to use the
00:40:10.13\00:40:12.54
bathroom I may make the
excuse used the bathroom myself
00:40:12.57\00:40:15.02
make sure where he goes,
not that I'm going to stop him
00:40:15.06\00:40:17.64
from doing anything
but at least that can be
00:40:17.68\00:40:20.23
accountable for he has been.
00:40:20.26\00:40:21.62
He's been to this room
and he's been to that room.
00:40:21.65\00:40:23.73
I think that we are all
responsible, we can't leave it
00:40:23.77\00:40:25.81
to just one
person to be accountable.
00:40:25.85\00:40:27.83
What is really incredible
with you Wayne, and what
00:40:27.87\00:40:30.54
you told me about your
accountability program is that
00:40:30.57\00:40:34.15
there are some men that
have contacted or said to you
00:40:34.19\00:40:36.63
I will be your partner,
and when you go to the bathroom
00:40:36.66\00:40:39.52
what happens? I can just
tap one of them on the shoulder
00:40:39.56\00:40:42.64
and say, hey, Tom or Ralph,
I need to use the bathroom.
00:40:42.68\00:40:45.73
They know what that
means - and they go with you.
00:40:45.77\00:40:48.26
That means follow
me into the bathroom.
00:40:48.30\00:40:50.12
They are aware of that but
what happens when people are
00:40:50.15\00:40:51.76
not aware, and I
think that is a part.
00:40:51.79\00:40:53.67
We can't all walk around
with a cowbell and say, hey,
00:40:53.70\00:40:56.14
I'm a sex offender, I'm
making noise and bringing this
00:40:56.18\00:40:58.59
attention to myself.
00:40:58.62\00:40:59.66
I've had to counsel, by
myself, in an office at night
00:40:59.70\00:41:04.23
a group of
convicted rapists, and to me
00:41:04.27\00:41:08.04
everyone said did you have
a gun? No I didn't have a gun,
00:41:08.07\00:41:10.28
I had common sense that the good
Lord gave me from living and
00:41:10.31\00:41:13.02
being raised in New
York City, what I did is I
00:41:13.05\00:41:15.75
kept their hands busy.
00:41:15.79\00:41:17.11
And at the end of the
night there was one or two
00:41:17.14\00:41:19.07
that wanted to talk to me
privately and I would keep
00:41:19.11\00:41:21.53
their hands full, can you
carry these books for me and
00:41:21.57\00:41:23.95
you carry this for me and
never when showing them there
00:41:23.99\00:41:26.34
was any fear
because there really wasn't.
00:41:26.38\00:41:28.19
I felt protection from God.
00:41:28.23\00:41:29.28
I'm not saying that everybody
should have that kind of
00:41:29.32\00:41:31.66
fearlessness, what I am saying
to you is that you have to
00:41:31.69\00:41:33.99
use some common sense.
00:41:34.03\00:41:35.42
I had to say for the years
that I did this, I never had
00:41:35.46\00:41:38.15
any incidents that I could
ever say made me feel fearful.
00:41:38.19\00:41:41.17
But I think part of that
has mutual respect, when that
00:41:41.21\00:41:44.55
person felt respected at
that time and that there was one
00:41:44.58\00:41:48.21
smidgen of trust, they were
required to fulfill that role.
00:41:48.24\00:41:51.84
That was what was happening.
00:41:51.87\00:41:53.60
I think when you're given
trust Wayne, I think you feel
00:41:53.63\00:41:56.32
responsible for given
that trust back. -Oh yeah!
00:41:56.36\00:41:59.04
So that is where we fall
short, now I understand some
00:41:59.07\00:42:01.96
of the issues is contributed
to you, but you have to
00:42:02.00\00:42:04.35
understand, Wayne wasn't
the one who offended you.
00:42:04.39\00:42:06.68
We have the tendency of
generalizing, if anyone type of
00:42:06.71\00:42:10.11
person did something to
us, we can't say that everyone
00:42:10.15\00:42:13.51
that looks like
that did the same thing.
00:42:13.55\00:42:15.31
I think it is also being
able to identify, yes I was
00:42:15.34\00:42:18.34
molested, but it
wasn't Wayne who molested me.
00:42:18.37\00:42:20.92
I know that he might
have molested someone else,
00:42:20.96\00:42:23.41
and that is terrible,
but he wasn't the person.
00:42:23.45\00:42:25.44
That is how you are
able to cope with a lot of
00:42:25.47\00:42:27.42
the stuff, when you
recognize this is not
00:42:27.46\00:42:28.84
the person who molested you.
00:42:28.88\00:42:31.27
What's really interesting about
that Wayne it is even as I am
00:42:31.31\00:42:34.16
dealing with that, I realize
a lot of my difficulty was
00:42:34.19\00:42:40.51
not being able to forgive that.
00:42:40.54\00:42:42.39
It was like what was left
unfinished with me and so what
00:42:42.43\00:42:46.02
you are saying is
he is not the offender.
00:42:46.05\00:42:47.48
I went to a church and
they asked me to help them set
00:42:47.51\00:42:50.02
up an accountability
program in their church.
00:42:50.05\00:42:52.24
So I went to the church,
it was three churches and nine
00:42:52.27\00:42:55.92
offenders, registered
offenders within those three
00:42:55.95\00:42:58.31
churches, and so it's like
how do we keep everybody safe?
00:42:58.35\00:43:02.25
As I walked in what was
really interesting, it felt like
00:43:02.28\00:43:05.37
half of the church were
victims and half of the church
00:43:05.41\00:43:08.47
were offenders, I
mean it was just like.
00:43:08.50\00:43:11.28
They were not speaking to
each other, and one half wanted
00:43:11.32\00:43:15.00
me to say, you
know what? He is wrong.
00:43:15.04\00:43:17.57
He should not be
here. He should be shot.
00:43:17.60\00:43:20.07
The perpetrators were
wanting me to say to the other
00:43:20.10\00:43:24.03
people, is let me heal and
I am only going to get through
00:43:24.07\00:43:27.88
this if God holds me, if I can
stay in this building, if you
00:43:27.91\00:43:31.99
could love me and trust
me, I so desperately don't want
00:43:32.02\00:43:35.52
to reoffend, and I saw
that so loudly on both sides.
00:43:35.55\00:43:38.97
And being able to walk in, I
took a breath and thought God
00:43:39.01\00:43:42.14
I don't even know how I'm
going to present this weekend,
00:43:42.18\00:43:45.28
these seminars? And
God said the same thing,
00:43:45.32\00:43:47.74
I love every one of you.
00:43:47.78\00:43:49.88
I don't want to heal
one side and not the other.
00:43:49.91\00:43:52.44
I want to heal everybody.
00:43:52.48\00:43:53.86
And what was really
interesting looking at these two
00:43:53.89\00:43:57.20
groups, I understand the
triggering stuff, I understand
00:43:57.23\00:44:00.65
when you see somebody you
know has that history and all
00:44:00.68\00:44:04.19
of a sudden every abuse
that have ever hurt you in any
00:44:04.22\00:44:07.70
way comes into your
mind, God says you know what?
00:44:07.73\00:44:10.55
A church cannot be healthy
that way, we have to give
00:44:10.59\00:44:13.38
all of that to Him.
00:44:13.41\00:44:14.52
We have trust in Him with
all that and accept healing on
00:44:14.55\00:44:18.73
every side, and I love,
even with Jeanette said, is when
00:44:18.77\00:44:22.76
you and I become friends
you actually want to be even
00:44:22.79\00:44:26.26
accountable to me in my
victimization and I want to be
00:44:26.29\00:44:29.15
accountable to you and
forgiving you and not having
00:44:29.19\00:44:32.01
you live over from
what happened to me.
00:44:32.05\00:44:35.31
What do you think of
that Wayne? What do you think
00:44:35.34\00:44:37.67
of all this stuff?
00:44:37.70\00:44:39.84
Well what I think is that
God is finally bringing this
00:44:39.88\00:44:43.54
into the church, He is finally
saying look, this has had
00:44:43.57\00:44:47.20
such a strong stigma for years.
00:44:47.23\00:44:49.34
It needs to be
dealt with head-on.
00:44:49.37\00:44:51.42
- and said out
loud. - said out loud.
00:44:51.46\00:44:53.44
It used to be alcoholism
was something that had such a
00:44:53.47\00:44:56.34
stigma that people were
embarrassed to check themselves
00:44:56.38\00:44:59.18
into rehab, we have to
have people come forward even on
00:44:59.21\00:45:01.98
sexual addictions
and sexual offenses.
00:45:02.01\00:45:04.68
And child abuse, if anything
it needs to be child abuse.
00:45:04.71\00:45:07.91
They are the most innocent
of all victims on the planet.
00:45:07.95\00:45:12.67
As the church hits this head
on, it can finally get to the
00:45:12.71\00:45:17.47
point where all God's people
can feel healing from both
00:45:17.50\00:45:21.43
sides of it, the victims,
from the perpetrator side.
00:45:21.46\00:45:25.35
You know who loses?
Satan! He has been winning
00:45:25.39\00:45:28.93
too long with this
because he keeps it suppressed.
00:45:28.96\00:45:32.37
He keeps people afraid of
saying anything, and that is
00:45:32.41\00:45:35.78
what is so diabolical
about this particular sin.
00:45:35.82\00:45:38.41
It is kept under the rug
for years and years and gets
00:45:38.44\00:45:42.41
passed on from
generation to generation.
00:45:42.44\00:45:44.45
God is saying enough.
I am bringing this out.
00:45:44.48\00:45:48.29
I need my church to be
healed from this before
00:45:48.32\00:45:52.09
He can take it home.
00:45:52.13\00:45:54.07
You know what I would
like to have you do is talk to
00:45:54.10\00:45:57.54
somebody watching that is
a perpetrator and is hurting
00:45:57.57\00:46:00.97
children right now,
what would you say to them?
00:46:01.01\00:46:04.42
What I would say, right
now while this subject is
00:46:04.45\00:46:07.83
in your mind, do
not turn off the TV.
00:46:07.86\00:46:10.65
God has an appointment
with you right now, not with me
00:46:10.69\00:46:13.88
but with God.
00:46:13.92\00:46:15.47
You know what you have
done, you know the look of fear
00:46:15.51\00:46:18.83
over your victims when
they see you coming towards them
00:46:18.87\00:46:22.44
yet again, you already
know what it is like to hurt
00:46:22.48\00:46:26.02
this child. Stop, now.
00:46:26.05\00:46:28.87
Make a choice in your mind
right now, you have stopped.
00:46:28.91\00:46:33.41
Not next week, not next
hour, today this second.
00:46:33.44\00:46:37.82
Get help, you need to
find someone you trust.
00:46:37.86\00:46:42.17
If you cannot find
someone you trust to share this
00:46:42.20\00:46:45.35
right now you need to go
to Child protective services,
00:46:45.39\00:46:48.50
or some other agency.
00:46:48.54\00:46:50.14
They are there to help,
you will go through certain
00:46:50.17\00:46:54.00
consequences but none of
those consequences is compared
00:46:54.04\00:46:57.83
to hurting a child
even one more time.
00:46:57.87\00:46:59.78
You have got to look
at that as a balance.
00:46:59.81\00:47:01.66
Hurting a child more time
verses maybe going to jail,
00:47:01.69\00:47:05.24
maybe losing your
marriage, maybe losing your job.
00:47:05.27\00:47:08.46
None of that
compares to hurting a child,
00:47:08.49\00:47:10.45
even one more time.
00:47:10.49\00:47:12.73
Right now, make that call to
someone you trust who will keep
00:47:12.76\00:47:17.34
you accountable. - you know
Wayne, what I have to say is
00:47:17.37\00:47:22.83
that I know that your passion
to not be silent about this
00:47:22.86\00:47:28.28
issue and to be able to
work with perpetrators and
00:47:28.31\00:47:32.35
encourage them to get a
life, to get healing, and let
00:47:32.38\00:47:35.72
God bless you and bring
joy into your life and not
00:47:35.76\00:47:38.59
secrecy and hiding and
all that kind of stuff.
00:47:38.63\00:47:41.40
Think of the joy, put your
mind in a minute where I am.
00:47:41.43\00:47:44.95
Nobody wants to
emphasize with the offenders.
00:47:44.99\00:47:47.62
But think about
what an offender feels.
00:47:47.66\00:47:50.07
They go through so much
guilt, if they have a conscience
00:47:50.11\00:47:53.18
left and are not total
psychopath, if they are have
00:47:53.22\00:47:56.37
a conscience left, they
feel so guilty, so angry but
00:47:56.40\00:47:59.08
there is no outlet.
There is no way - so filthy.
00:47:59.12\00:48:01.76
So filthy, so ugly.
00:48:01.79\00:48:03.19
In my case it was my
daughter, two years old.
00:48:03.23\00:48:07.10
Now there was no
penetration but the point is
00:48:07.14\00:48:10.98
she was still molested.
00:48:11.02\00:48:12.41
Her father, the one most
responsible for taking care
00:48:12.45\00:48:15.99
of her, was the one hurting her.
00:48:16.03\00:48:18.03
Take all of those feelings
and then know that society
00:48:18.06\00:48:23.32
just like you said
would like to shoot you.
00:48:23.35\00:48:26.29
It is very difficult for
anyone to say I need help,
00:48:26.33\00:48:30.23
very difficult. God says
I see all of that and I know
00:48:30.26\00:48:33.55
all of that, you know
what I sent my Son Jesus Christ
00:48:33.59\00:48:36.84
to take it on
Himself, even that filth.
00:48:36.87\00:48:41.12
Jesus didn't do it, but He
said I will take it because
00:48:41.15\00:48:44.38
I love you Wayne, I love
you who ever it is right now.
00:48:44.41\00:48:47.61
I love you He says.
00:48:47.64\00:48:49.92
I will put it on Myself
and I will die in your place,
00:48:49.95\00:48:52.94
but now can we be friends?
I want to heal you from this.
00:48:52.97\00:48:55.92
Not partway, when Jesus
said here to the blind man,
00:48:55.96\00:48:59.06
I will heal you, well
actually next week, next year.
00:48:59.09\00:49:03.78
Now! He wants to do it now
and use you to help someone
00:49:03.81\00:49:08.46
else come out of that junk too.
00:49:08.49\00:49:10.63
That is when God has triumphed
and the devil he loses.
00:49:10.66\00:49:15.06
And that is what we want.
00:49:15.10\00:49:16.31
You know what is really
funny is as you're saying that?
00:49:16.34\00:49:19.06
I never really thought
about the joy you must feel when
00:49:19.09\00:49:21.95
God says I forgive you.
I love you. I think you are
00:49:21.98\00:49:25.32
amazing, you are a man
of God standing holy in the
00:49:25.35\00:49:28.35
presence of a holy God.
- by God's grace. - man!
00:49:28.38\00:49:31.31
I wanted to point out that
when you opened up you said
00:49:31.35\00:49:34.11
something about the fact
that he pointed out to you on
00:49:34.14\00:49:36.87
that meeting that you
were wearing an outfit
00:49:36.90\00:49:38.94
that was see-through.
00:49:38.98\00:49:40.00
When you think of addiction,
and you think of triggers,
00:49:40.03\00:49:43.42
if that was the trigger
for him or any sex offender,
00:49:43.46\00:49:46.81
think about some
of the stuff we do.
00:49:46.85\00:49:49.10
We tend to point the finger
at everyone else, but some
00:49:49.13\00:49:51.80
of the things that we
do that trigger the people
00:49:51.83\00:49:54.85
that are dealing with
these issues - exactly.
00:49:54.88\00:49:57.82
I think that we have,
that's why mutual accountability
00:49:57.86\00:50:01.10
is so important because
like I said, the criminal mind
00:50:01.14\00:50:04.47
requires opportunity,
and opportunity is obviously
00:50:04.51\00:50:08.81
through triggers and
leaving things unattended,
00:50:08.85\00:50:13.08
children unattended situations
where you are scantily
00:50:13.12\00:50:16.73
clad, or inappropriately
dressed, or just creating
00:50:16.77\00:50:20.32
situations and those are
the things that I have concerns.
00:50:20.35\00:50:22.79
I see a lot of young people
today even in the church where
00:50:22.83\00:50:25.24
very young girls are
wearing very little into church,
00:50:25.27\00:50:28.00
not even the house of God
gets respect and even from
00:50:28.03\00:50:30.69
a church perspective because
I know in some states before
00:50:30.73\00:50:33.37
they even allow a sex offender
to go to church, they have
00:50:33.40\00:50:36.57
to meet a certain criteria,
and they had contact the Pastor
00:50:36.61\00:50:39.74
of that church to find
out if it is okay, and who is
00:50:39.77\00:50:43.57
going to become
accountable for that person.
00:50:43.61\00:50:45.77
They can't just walk
right into church, they are
00:50:45.81\00:50:48.30
required in some states
to actually be notified if
00:50:48.34\00:50:50.80
they are going to be there.
00:50:50.84\00:50:51.81
Yes there is a lot of red
tape that goes along with the
00:50:51.82\00:50:56.00
scarlet letter, and I
think even to the house of God
00:50:56.03\00:51:00.18
some people had to wait two
years before they are eligible
00:51:00.22\00:51:02.53
to be able to be in a
church setting, in a park,
00:51:02.57\00:51:06.10
in a library,
in a movie theater.
00:51:06.13\00:51:07.89
They are not allowed to go
into places where children are
00:51:07.92\00:51:10.49
at, mostly because the
irresponsibility of some parents
00:51:10.53\00:51:13.06
letting young kids
go to places unattended.
00:51:13.10\00:51:15.33
I think that is something
that we as a society need to
00:51:15.37\00:51:18.47
take responsibility as well if
we're parents of young children
00:51:18.50\00:51:22.00
not to let them go to certain
places in this day and age
00:51:22.03\00:51:24.85
alone and unattended.
00:51:24.89\00:51:26.36
That is an
incredible point Jeanette.
00:51:26.40\00:51:27.90
It's very important amusement
parks, Disneyland, places like
00:51:27.94\00:51:31.07
these were children going
to bathrooms unattended and
00:51:31.10\00:51:33.25
they don't know what's
there in a place where there is
00:51:33.28\00:51:35.58
just a lot of people
there from all walks of life and
00:51:35.61\00:51:37.88
they can't put a
sign in Disneyland
00:51:37.91\00:51:40.63
don't have sex offenders here.
00:51:40.67\00:51:42.46
That is a playground for
sex offenders, would be a place
00:51:42.49\00:51:45.05
like Disneyland, yet
parents let their kids run amok
00:51:45.08\00:51:47.60
in a place like that.
00:51:47.64\00:51:48.93
And I want to say, even
with that, it sounds like if
00:51:48.97\00:51:52.73
we could do what the
church is called to do and just
00:51:52.76\00:51:56.25
keep a safe environment
that I don't have to keep you
00:51:56.28\00:51:59.73
from Camp meeting. - right.
00:51:59.77\00:52:01.52
- because I want
you to hear these
00:52:01.55\00:52:03.04
incredible speakers,
I want you to be there.
00:52:03.08\00:52:05.20
I want you to be blessed
by that, I want you to get
00:52:05.23\00:52:07.74
stronger on your feet and
if we keep pushing you out,
00:52:07.78\00:52:10.52
pushing anybody out, if I
am an addict and nobody wants
00:52:10.56\00:52:13.27
me there than I am
not going to be able
00:52:13.31\00:52:15.65
to stay in my recovery.
00:52:15.68\00:52:17.14
So the same time as
saying is being able to say that
00:52:17.18\00:52:20.86
please don't, don't exclude
me from these things that
00:52:20.90\00:52:24.55
are going to give me
life. - that's right!
00:52:24.59\00:52:26.13
If we do, we do it at our
own hurt because sex offenders,
00:52:26.16\00:52:29.79
if they are wanting
recovery, I realize many do not.
00:52:29.82\00:52:35.05
That is sad. -
you do. - praise God.
00:52:35.08\00:52:37.65
I love that. -
praise God for that. - Amen!
00:52:37.68\00:52:40.46
But if they are wanting
help, if they are wanting to be
00:52:40.50\00:52:42.96
a part of a church family,
and I see church because again
00:52:42.99\00:52:46.00
it is the one organization
on the planet that really needs
00:52:46.04\00:52:49.02
to rise to the occasion here.
00:52:49.05\00:52:50.39
It needs to say, you know
what? There for the grace of
00:52:50.43\00:52:53.63
God, God. - exactly.
00:52:53.66\00:52:55.80
If they want healing and
recovery, we have to find a way
00:52:55.83\00:53:00.05
that protects the children
again, but also is redemptive
00:53:00.09\00:53:04.28
in the way we reach out to them.
00:53:04.31\00:53:05.74
If we do not, they end up
what? Once they're released
00:53:05.77\00:53:09.86
from jail, they end up
recidivism is so high for this
00:53:09.90\00:53:13.28
offense, it is so high
because the depression comes in,
00:53:13.31\00:53:16.66
the fear comes in, oh
am I going to do it again?
00:53:16.69\00:53:18.74
Once you get over that
boundary of, well I just might
00:53:18.78\00:53:23.32
as well do it,
that is so dangerous.
00:53:23.35\00:53:25.47
We have to not only go
through therapy, learn the walls
00:53:25.50\00:53:32.19
they need to be
erect against opportunity.
00:53:32.22\00:53:35.27
You said the opportunity,
can't have opportunity you
00:53:35.30\00:53:37.07
can't have an offense. Okay?
00:53:37.11\00:53:38.66
You have to have that there,
but they also have to have
00:53:38.70\00:53:41.96
Christ, because without
Christ there really isn't any
00:53:41.99\00:53:45.22
full
accountability and recovery.
00:53:45.25\00:53:47.95
And I have to say we
are running out of time.
00:53:47.99\00:53:49.85
I can't even believe it,
and I love you and I want to
00:53:49.89\00:53:52.20
thank you for
your being so brave.
00:53:52.24\00:53:54.81
I want to thank you
both for coming on the show.
00:53:54.85\00:53:56.81
I want to thank you for your
ministry and I wanted to say
00:53:56.85\00:53:59.54
you know what I will pray
for you whenever I think about
00:53:59.58\00:54:02.24
you and I want to ask
you to never be silent.
00:54:02.28\00:54:04.91
Make sure that
we get this point.
00:54:04.95\00:54:07.24
Please stay tuned
because this is not it.
00:54:07.27\00:54:10.88
We will be right back!
00:54:10.92\00:54:12.40
Amazing stories, real people
in real situations, discussing
00:54:16.51\00:54:19.81
issues that really matter.
00:54:19.85\00:54:21.72
A complete first season of
Celebrating Life In Recovery is
00:54:21.75\00:54:24.96
now available on DVD and
can be ordered by calling 3ABN
00:54:25.00\00:54:28.18
or online at 3ABN.org
hosted by Cheri Peters.
00:54:28.21\00:54:31.39
This season follows
principles of the book
00:54:31.43\00:54:34.58
'Steps to Christ'.
00:54:34.61\00:54:36.01
See for yourself how
God changed the lives of the
00:54:36.04\00:54:38.23
convicted and the accused
and victims of terrible crimes.
00:54:38.27\00:54:41.35
You won't want to miss a moment
of these powerful interviews.
00:54:41.38\00:54:44.43
So what have you decided?
Remember I told you it was
00:54:49.24\00:54:52.04
going to be one
of the best shows.
00:54:52.08\00:54:54.19
And a really think it
is the best episode because
00:54:54.22\00:54:56.29
we have to bring this
stuff out in the open.
00:54:56.32\00:54:58.64
We have to believe that
God is bigger than our junk.
00:54:58.68\00:55:01.25
And we can't believe He
is only bigger than our junk
00:55:01.28\00:55:03.74
if our junk is small, we
have to believe He is bigger
00:55:03.77\00:55:06.03
than all of that.
00:55:06.07\00:55:07.12
That Christ took on everything,
and He took on everything
00:55:07.16\00:55:10.44
to reconcile us back to God
because that is the only thing
00:55:10.47\00:55:13.97
that brings Him joy, that
is what the whole thing is
00:55:14.01\00:55:16.88
about is bringing us
into a place of healing.
00:55:16.91\00:55:19.12
I have to ask you Wayne, is
what ever happened with your
00:55:19.16\00:55:22.51
daughter was there
reconciliation there?
00:55:22.55\00:55:24.66
Praise God there was, she
was only two years old when
00:55:24.70\00:55:28.07
I molested her, and she
has no real recollection of it.
00:55:28.10\00:55:31.94
She was told about it later
in therapy and it was tough
00:55:31.98\00:55:35.78
for her, but she was
only nine at the time.
00:55:35.82\00:55:37.92
It was later when she was
11 and going through puberty
00:55:37.96\00:55:41.27
that it really hit her
hard and for three years she cut
00:55:41.30\00:55:44.71
off communication with me,
my wife and my whole family
00:55:44.74\00:55:48.55
actually, but praise God
we have been praying seriously
00:55:48.58\00:55:51.89
ever since this all started
and I became a Christian.
00:55:51.93\00:55:56.53
She came to the Lord in 2005,
will actually she came back
00:55:56.57\00:56:00.79
into our lives and with
talking with us she and I had
00:56:00.83\00:56:05.02
a conversation where
she heard me take full
00:56:05.05\00:56:08.69
responsibility
for what had happened.
00:56:08.73\00:56:10.32
And she yanked my hand to
the sky and said you are the
00:56:10.35\00:56:12.96
best father in the world.
00:56:12.99\00:56:14.60
And you know what? She finally
got it, she didn't get it
00:56:14.64\00:56:18.50
at nine as much, she finally
had the real healing that
00:56:18.54\00:56:21.86
she needed and praise
God she is in the church,
00:56:21.89\00:56:25.08
she is a part of our
life, and she's a blessed
00:56:25.11\00:56:28.14
16-year-old daughter
now. Yes I do. Always have.
00:56:28.18\00:56:31.17
You know what is
really interesting to me is as
00:56:32.60\00:56:35.55
God heals us, as He comes into
our lives, He really does want
00:56:35.59\00:56:39.65
us to stand up
and help someone else.
00:56:39.69\00:56:42.49
We were talking about God
using other people or standing
00:56:42.52\00:56:49.87
up and bringing reconciliation,
bringing healing, bringing all
00:56:49.90\00:56:52.76
that stuff, but He
does that for a reason.
00:56:52.79\00:56:55.04
He says when you get it,
when you finally get it I want
00:56:55.08\00:56:58.37
you to stand and
help someone else.
00:56:58.40\00:57:00.07
I want you to go out, for
me I work with addicts, people
00:57:00.10\00:57:03.42
who are strong on different
things, people who have
00:57:03.45\00:57:06.83
came out a life of
dysfunction and try to encourage
00:57:06.86\00:57:10.20
them to surrender that to God.
00:57:10.24\00:57:11.88
Wayne, his ministry right
now, his love is to work with
00:57:11.92\00:57:15.65
perpetrators, we looked at
Jeanette and she works with
00:57:15.68\00:57:19.38
people coming out of
all kinds of lifestyles.
00:57:19.41\00:57:22.14
God says, you know what?
I want to heal you so that
00:57:22.18\00:57:24.59
you can bring that healing
to someone else and I don't
00:57:24.62\00:57:27.38
want you to be oppressed
by that, I don't want you to
00:57:27.42\00:57:30.23
in fear of that, I want you
to accept healing and I want
00:57:30.27\00:57:32.79
you to be blessed, I want
you to be filled with joy,
00:57:32.83\00:57:35.74
I want you to know that I
am absolutely crazy about you.
00:57:35.77\00:57:38.65
Until next time
remember that God is crazy about
00:57:38.68\00:57:41.13
you and me too!
See you next time.
00:57:41.16\00:57:44.56