Welcome to Celebrating
Life In Recovery, I'm Cheri
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your host and today we
are going to look at change.
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Some people will say I
don't even know how to change,
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I don't know what
needs to be changed.
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So today we will get what
Jesus Christ does to get us
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to a place where we except
change and our very desires
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will change so join
us as we look at that.
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I laugh when I think
about when I came to Christ,
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I was such a mess.
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I was in a drug house
trying to kill myself, had an
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encounter with God and
felt beyond a shadow of a doubt
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that He could change my
life and I needed to find
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a place to recover.
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So I end up calling the
only person I know, the only
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person I know
that was fairly normal.
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I had been homeless for
10 years, I had been on the
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street for 10 years surrounded
by addicts so when I say
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fairly normal, it isn't
even close to what some people
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would think normal
was, but I called them up.
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I said you know I
need some help desperately.
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I need to find a
place to recover.
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When I met God in the drug
house, I was trying to kill
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myself and God never once
told me Cheri you know what?
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Now that you've got it, now
that you understand I'm God,
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I want you to clean up, I
want you to stop doing drugs,
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I want you to stop lying
whatever, all He said to me
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is that I absolutely adore you.
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I adore you and I love you
and I want to help you to heal.
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In that it gave me the
courage to stand up and say
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you know what? I want to
get away from this stuff,
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these drugs and all of that.
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So I called this person
who has a sister who is a
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Christian and says that I
can stay at her house, right?
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I drive, I don't know
eight hours to get to her house.
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I get to her house and I
am withdrawing from drugs
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because I don't
realize I say no drugs and
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I'm going to find a
place to recover but I am not
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right now in a good place.
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In that He sets me in a
place, in a Christian home with
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somebody that is actually a
vegan vegetarian and amazing.
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And I always joke that
this women was quite a bit older
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than I am but
she was a health nut.
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So she was so healthy she
would say we need to get out
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side and in the
sun and all that stuff.
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We need to hike and I'm
thinking I smoke three packs of
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cigarettes a day, I'm a
recovering heroin addict, I am
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withdrawing from drugs
and I'm thinking you go hike.
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I'm actually okay, and I
remember just being and it was
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so funny but she loved and
nurtured me and those things.
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When I finally trusted her
enough to really allow her to
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teach me the Bible, to
teach me about what God says,
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she started teaching me
different things and one of
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thing she taught me was
the story of Mary Magdalene.
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Reading Mary Magdalena in
the Bible for those of you that
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don't know is a
prostitute, right?
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She was drug to Jesus feet and
thrown at His feet and people
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were saying, you know what
was her crime she should be
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stoned to death,
she should be killed.
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God doesn't do that, Jesus
doesn't do that, He looks at
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her with so much compassion
that He really convicts them
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as God does with us, of
their sin, of their damage.
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He says whoever doesn't
have any sin throw the first
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stone at her and we
will condemn her to death.
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We will stone her to death.
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And pretty soon everybody
walks away, she is so hesitant
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to even look up at Him,
and He just looked at her with
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so much love and says
I don't even condemn you.
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I love you, go and
don't hurt yourself anymore.
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And when I heard that the
first time, go and don't hurt
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yourself anymore, that God
is not saying go and be good,
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go and don't embarrass Me,
He is saying go and don't hurt
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yourself, don't put all
the stuff into your life, don't
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let people abuse you, don't
get lost in your addictions.
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He is literally
saying I just so love you.
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She felt so much in love
from Him that she followed Him
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the rest of her life, the
rest of her life she was so
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dedicated to God and wanted
to stand holy in the presence
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of a holy God because of
the love she felt from Him.
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Not because He told her
she had to, this is just her
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response from that love.
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The next story they
tell me, and I love this one.
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She tells me the story
about the demoniac and says
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a guy in the Bible and
he is ugly, he is ugly.
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He was like cutting
on himself with stones.
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He is beating people up,
he's chained up and foaming
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at the mouth and
is filled with demons.
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Did I tell you he is
ugly, did I tell you I mean
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he is ugly, ugly, ugly.
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And the whole time she
is talking I'm thinking what
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happened to him, and she
says again did I say that this
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guy was ugly?
I'm thinking you did.
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And so she says ugly,
filled with demons, cutting on
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himself and people tried
to chain him up and he would
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break the chains,
they were afraid of him.
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I'm thinking the whole
time, let me know what happened
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because I think
I dated that guy.
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So she is acting like
this is a guy that never has
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existed, and I'm thinking
you have never been on the
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streets, you've never been
in a lot of prisons because
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there are people that
are filled with demons.
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There are people that are
so filled with rage that kind
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of stuff is normal and I
want to know what happened.
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She said Christ stood in
front of him and everybody else
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ran, everyone that
Christ was with ran away.
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But Jesus stood there and
new that in the heart of heart
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of this guy, he
wanted to be normal.
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He wanted to be well and
Jesus set there and called
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the demons out and rebuked them.
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God got them out of this
guy's life and the next time
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people saw him he was
sane and in his right mind.
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That is absolutely incredible,
this guy that was filled
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with demons is now free
and in his right mind, sitting
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next to Christ.
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And I love because Christ is
getting ready to go somewhere
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else because the town folks
flip out because of all the
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stuff that happened and
asked Him to leave the region.
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And this guy says
can I go with you please?
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And as I'm hearing this
story I'm thinking I can so
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relate to that guy.
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I know that there are a
lot of people I was on the
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streets with that if they
knew there was a God out there
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that could bring those
kind of changes, can take some
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body from crazy to being
filled with demons and having
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all that anger and can
bring healing into the life.
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Not only healing where you
are sane, he's got restored
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sanity, I'm in my right mind.
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All that anger for first-time
in my life is gone and I'm
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thinking Amen, Amen and as
I looked at the Bible, as I
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first of all left this woman's
house, I have done recovery
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she has taught me some
things and I leave her house and
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join a church and it was
hysterical because I don't know
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how to dress. I don't
know how to dress, I don't know
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how to talk, I don't know
how to eat right, speak right.
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I could read a little bit,
maybe second grade level but
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I was fairly illiterate.
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I came running in the
church, hello I'm here and
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I love God and
how amazing is that?
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What was funny is that
He loves me and I remember
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coming in and the
church I came into was very
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conservative and very
standoffish with my excitement
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and definitely
with the way I looked.
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Because I came into a very
conservative church I put every
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single piece of
jewelry that I owned on.
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My best outfit was a little
short skirt kind of thing.
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I just thought I looked adorable
and they didn't agree with me.
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I was smoking three packs a
day so I had billows of smoke
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following me and
I just showed up.
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I was so in love
with God, and I know that
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He was so in love with me.
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The response I got in the
building was not, they weren't
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as sure, they weren't as
sure and it was so funny.
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So I sat down and tried
to behave and I remember for
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a while I would come in and
spray perfume all over because
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I thought maybe they
don't like the smell of smoke.
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And remember I'd just come
from homeless less so I don't
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have a lot of money so
the perfume was very cheap and
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I was sprayed from head
to toe and I would come in.
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And what was interesting
to me was the entire time
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God was saying, I love you,
I adore you, I think you are
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beautiful and I will
bring changes into your life.
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So we talked about it, I
was so used to being on the
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streets, I was so manipulative,
if I was uncomfortable
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in any way, if I was unsure
of myself in any way I have
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and detachment disorder
because of all the early
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molest and that means I
could leave in my head and be
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somewhere else, or be
someone else or whatever.
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I was so adaptable that I
could do that at the drop of a
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hat, in fact in my recovery
to learn to stay present was
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a huge thing, I
mean it was a huge thing.
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So I ended up coming into
the church trying to do the best
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I could and someone told
me at one point you know Cheri
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the reason you are such a
mess is that you are not eating
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right, and I've got to tell
you there is so much truth to
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that, what we put in our
body and how we take care of
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our self is a big deal,
it's absolutely a big deal.
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But the way this person
brought it across as very much
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condemning, it wasn't
brought across in love at all.
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So I kind of took it
like what do you mean?
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It wasn't that I was molested
since the day I was born
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in homeless or 10
years and all that stuff,
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I'm just not eating
brown rice and I remember just
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thinking how crazy is that?
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I went to a class on how
to eat right and I was in the
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first row of this class
because for one, I don't know
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if you can
recognize I am somewhat ADD.
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So I am a little hyper and
I am in the front row because
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I do not want to miss anything,
because if this is going to help
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me survive I want to
learn any thing I need to learn.
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I got so hurt in this
class because the only thing
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that I got from it is
that if I ever eaten or done
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anything like eating wrong,
or done something wrong to
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my body I couldn't
get it spiritually.
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I'm sure that wasn't
the message, but I got this
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message and it felt like
somebody was reaching into
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my chest and pulling Christ out,
literally pulling Christ out.
00:10:43.38\00:10:47.38
I was afraid and I ended
up leaving and went home and I
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was sobbing, snob dripping
out of my nose sobbing and just
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saying God this cannot be
true because I can't survive.
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I don't know what
I'll do if God isn't real.
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If your love for me isn't
real, if I have no chance of
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coming out of this I'm
not sure what I would do.
00:11:04.82\00:11:07.22
And God gives me this, I
hate to say vision because that
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is an odd thing to say,
but He gave me this vision of
00:11:11.47\00:11:15.39
what happened to me years
ago and it really happened.
00:11:15.42\00:11:18.61
I was a drug house and
waiting for a shipment of heroin
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to come in and I was
withdrawing. I was not in a good
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place. When the drugs came in, I
slammed the same amount of drugs
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I've always slammed
and it was too much.
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The drug was more potent
than what I have been used to.
00:11:32.31\00:11:35.37
I immediately overdosed,
because when you inject drugs
00:11:35.40\00:11:38.42
the overdose is pretty quick,
so I immediately overdosed.
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I started seizing, I lost
bowel and bladder control.
00:11:41.77\00:11:44.99
I started throwing up and
the other addicts in the room
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were trying to resuscitate me.
00:11:47.71\00:11:50.02
And this is really important,
I'm sorry if it grosses
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someone out, but they were
trying to resuscitate me and
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what God showed me in
this prayer is what that looked
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like at the time.
00:11:58.64\00:12:00.28
I don't know how He does
that but that's what I felt like
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He was showing me.
00:12:02.50\00:12:03.64
It was ridiculous watching
other addicts trying to breathe
00:12:03.67\00:12:07.95
for you and that stuff.
00:12:07.98\00:12:09.15
As I threw up they were
trying to clear my mouth of the
00:12:09.18\00:12:12.06
vomit and still breathe
for me and it was disgusting.
00:12:12.09\00:12:14.36
I remembered that when I
first got into praying I felt
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horrible, I felt like I
wasn't worth anything, that
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I wasn't good enough, I
wasn't eating right and I didn't
00:12:21.46\00:12:23.65
fit in this
group of normal people.
00:12:23.68\00:12:26.42
I didn't fit in the church
and I couldn't sit anywhere
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else and I was panicking
and now He is showing me this
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vision that was
absolutely disgusting.
00:12:32.15\00:12:34.38
In the vision I felt like
I was there looking at it,
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I could smell and feel what it
felt like to be in that place.
00:12:37.83\00:12:41.20
They took me to the shower
and were trying to put ice all
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over me to revive
me and those things.
00:12:43.60\00:12:46.05
All of a sudden I
just felt like crying God,
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what are You doing? This
is not helping me feel better.
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I remember that panic,
that I am not feeling better and
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He said something that changed
my life forever, for ever.
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He said to me really
clearly through the Holy Spirit,
00:13:00.38\00:13:03.56
not a voice but through
the Holy Spirit, Cheri I loved
00:13:03.59\00:13:06.93
you as much when you were
laying on the floor of a drug
00:13:06.96\00:13:10.00
house, in your own feces
as I do right now when you are
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trying to be a Christian.
00:13:13.48\00:13:14.80
Do not make this a behavioral
thing, I am your Father.
00:13:14.83\00:13:17.93
I love you, I loved you since
the day you were born, even
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in the womb I loved you
and please don't mistaken that.
00:13:21.34\00:13:25.08
Do I not want you to not
hurt yourself? Do I want you not
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to damage yourself by this
sin you bring in your life?
00:13:28.36\00:13:32.00
Yes, but that doesn't
change my love for you.
00:13:32.03\00:13:34.19
Do I what you to eat
right? Yes because it helps you
00:13:34.22\00:13:37.05
to reestablish your neural
chemistry so you depressions
00:13:37.08\00:13:39.94
will lift and all that stuff.
00:13:39.97\00:13:41.42
Do I want you to drink water?
Yeah and be out in the sun
00:13:41.45\00:13:43.93
and take good breaths
and stuff that is all part of
00:13:43.96\00:13:47.01
recovery, yes that is it
but don't mistaken that for My
00:13:47.04\00:13:50.42
love for you, I am your Father.
00:13:50.45\00:13:53.33
I absolutely adore you and
when you get that I can bring
00:13:53.36\00:13:56.88
changes into your life that
the very desires that you have,
00:13:56.91\00:13:59.77
the very things that are so
second nature to you right now,
00:13:59.80\00:14:03.22
the manipulation and all
that stuff you will so start to
00:14:03.25\00:14:07.66
begin to hate the
things that you love now.
00:14:07.69\00:14:09.14
Love the things that you
hate now that I am God and bring
00:14:09.18\00:14:12.70
Holiness into your life
where you will long for that and
00:14:12.74\00:14:16.23
desire that, and
that is all scriptural.
00:14:16.26\00:14:18.74
As I learned that,
God how cool is He?
00:14:18.77\00:14:21.18
So stay tuned, we are going
to meet some of the guests here
00:14:21.22\00:14:25.18
and I want you to
listen to the stories of
00:14:25.22\00:14:27.72
Ron and Celeste Lee as we
interviewed them as how God has
00:14:27.76\00:14:31.45
changed their lives and
brought that into their life and
00:14:31.48\00:14:35.14
made Himself more real to them.
00:14:35.17\00:14:36.66
We want to introduce
you to a beautiful book
00:14:41.90\00:14:44.27
Called 'Steps To Christ'.
00:14:44.31\00:14:46.07
Each program in this series
is based on a different chapter
00:14:46.11\00:14:49.35
showing you how to
become a Christian and
00:14:49.39\00:14:51.18
gain victory
over your addictions.
00:14:51.21\00:14:53.38
'Steps To Christ' is our
gift to you free of charge.
00:14:53.41\00:14:56.63
Just call us at:
00:14:56.66\00:14:58.32
Welcome back to Celebrating
Life In Recovery, on this
00:15:22.70\00:15:24.98
segment I would like introduce
you to Ron and Celeste Lee
00:15:25.01\00:15:27.26
and thank you so much
for coming on the show.
00:15:27.29\00:15:31.22
You know that I love
you guys. - we love you too.
00:15:31.25\00:15:35.11
Good, good, the first time
I met Ron, and I have to tell
00:15:35.14\00:15:38.83
you this, I thought it
was absolutely hilarious.
00:15:38.87\00:15:41.39
I am in Nebraska, we're doing
I think a woman's retreat or
00:15:41.42\00:15:45.26
something but the men
decided that they had to come.
00:15:45.29\00:15:47.69
So everybody comes
and we had a great time.
00:15:47.73\00:15:52.12
As I met Ron, I instantly feel
I bonded with you and have since
00:15:52.15\00:15:58.18
the day we met, and I said
to Ron on the way out is that
00:15:58.21\00:16:01.81
you would be amazing
in prison ministries.
00:16:01.84\00:16:05.10
So I'm wondering I know
he's the elder of the church and
00:16:05.14\00:16:08.19
saying have you done prison
ministries and do you remember
00:16:08.22\00:16:11.24
what you said to me?
00:16:11.28\00:16:12.52
I made some comment like I
can't go there because of what
00:16:12.55\00:16:17.31
I would do? I'm like
what? What would you do?
00:16:17.34\00:16:20.63
I think I responded to
you I would smack somebody.
00:16:20.67\00:16:24.45
Yeah you said that, I'd
probably smack somebody in the
00:16:24.49\00:16:28.86
face, Na-na-na-na and I started
to laugh because that was
00:16:28.90\00:16:33.24
the funniest
answer I had ever heard.
00:16:33.27\00:16:35.61
So I said do have some anger
issues? And I think Celeste
00:16:35.65\00:16:40.37
just about fell off the
chair, anger issues let me tell
00:16:40.41\00:16:44.69
you. It was that encounter,
when we first met, and there
00:16:44.72\00:16:48.97
is not much
more said about that.
00:16:49.00\00:16:50.56
A little while later I
get a call from Celeste and go
00:16:50.60\00:16:56.87
over the call.
00:16:56.90\00:16:58.74
I think if this is the
call you are referring to I was
00:16:58.77\00:17:02.20
ready to move out, I was
done. - packing your bags.
00:17:02.23\00:17:05.44
I was like Cheri I can't
handle this, I have been here
00:17:05.47\00:17:08.64
enough and I am not
dealing with this anymore,
00:17:08.68\00:17:10.73
I'm out of here.
00:17:10.77\00:17:11.99
And what she was telling
me is you don't understand,
00:17:12.02\00:17:14.44
this guy has a rage problem and
you are right on, and all this
00:17:14.47\00:17:18.93
kind of stuff on the phone
and I finally said to her, which
00:17:18.97\00:17:23.76
I think was amazing, is that
if God could change it would
00:17:23.80\00:17:28.56
you stay? And there was silence.
00:17:28.60\00:17:31.51
Because at that time I
didn't really think God could,
00:17:31.55\00:17:33.82
because I have been
praying that for ever.
00:17:33.85\00:17:36.08
I was really at the
decision point of can
00:17:36.12\00:17:39.62
I even still believe in God?
00:17:39.65\00:17:41.74
Because nothing is happening
here, why should I still
00:17:41.77\00:17:44.27
believe in Him when
nothing is happening?
00:17:44.31\00:17:47.07
I had really sat down and
thought some of that through.
00:17:47.10\00:17:50.77
There was a point in the
conversation I thought was
00:17:50.80\00:17:54.82
incredible when you are
honestly saying even if it
00:17:54.86\00:17:58.67
changes right now I
don't think I can step back in.
00:17:58.71\00:18:02.78
I just think I am so
done, and at that point the only
00:18:02.81\00:18:06.85
thing I could think of
is that both of you need
00:18:06.88\00:18:09.32
to be at my house.
00:18:09.35\00:18:11.03
Come over to the house,
and its funny Ron because you
00:18:11.07\00:18:15.05
didn't think you would come.
00:18:15.08\00:18:17.95
No she didn't, she basically
put me in a crisis and said
00:18:17.99\00:18:22.11
we have got to go today,
this was a Wednesday afternoon.
00:18:22.14\00:18:26.23
She said we got to go
today, and I said I've got a
00:18:26.26\00:18:28.77
contract that is signed and
I have to be on the job Monday.
00:18:28.80\00:18:31.42
You're the boss,
- yeah on Fridays.
00:18:31.45\00:18:35.11
So she said well I'll
drive all Sunday to make sure
00:18:35.14\00:18:39.70
you get home,
either we go or I'm gone.
00:18:39.73\00:18:41.90
I realized at that moment
it was way past serious and
00:18:41.94\00:18:45.71
it was time, I knew I
needed help but didn't
00:18:45.75\00:18:48.50
know what to do.
00:18:48.54\00:18:49.85
So we're going to step into
this situation and its the most
00:18:49.89\00:18:54.03
amazing thing watching
God, I love watching God.
00:18:54.06\00:18:56.64
I love the way He comes into
our lives when it is hopeless.
00:18:56.67\00:18:59.60
When we absolutely don't think
He can do anything and maybe
00:18:59.63\00:19:02.52
don't even want
Him to do anything.
00:19:02.56\00:19:04.35
I don't even know if I
believe in You anymore and
00:19:04.38\00:19:06.41
watching God step in.
00:19:06.45\00:19:08.69
Before we get started with
your testimony, because they are
00:19:08.72\00:19:14.87
my favorite, my favorite, is
I want to take you to John 3:8
00:19:14.91\00:19:20.18
In John 3:8 it talks about where
Christ says "the wind blows
00:19:20.22\00:19:24.79
"wherever it wishes, you can
hear the sound it makes but you"
00:19:24.82\00:19:29.35
"do not know where it
comes from or where it's going.
00:19:29.39\00:19:31.90
"It's like that way with
everyone born of the Spirit."
00:19:31.94\00:19:34.38
I never really got that until
somebody said in a military
00:19:34.42\00:19:38.94
term, and Ron will appreciate
this, is during some of the
00:19:38.98\00:19:42.64
major wars the Marines would
come and they would land on
00:19:42.67\00:19:46.30
an island that was
occupied by the enemy.
00:19:46.34\00:19:48.63
If they could get a hold
on that island it was just
00:19:48.67\00:19:53.31
a matter of time before they
could take back the territory,
00:19:53.35\00:19:57.61
take back the land.
00:19:57.65\00:19:59.29
I really believe in this
God said just give Me a hold,
00:19:59.33\00:20:03.04
just raise your hand and
get in the car and drive there
00:20:03.08\00:20:06.75
and God will wow
you with what He does.
00:20:06.79\00:20:10.36
So you show up at my house
and I'm only going to set up the
00:20:10.39\00:20:12.83
story and let them take it over.
00:20:12.87\00:20:14.41
You show up at my house,
and I look at both of them and
00:20:14.44\00:20:18.17
they are both
furious. They are both furious.
00:20:18.20\00:20:22.75
And they are furious at
each other, their furious about
00:20:22.79\00:20:26.63
the trip and I can't even
imagine being in the place you
00:20:26.67\00:20:30.41
are in and driving all the
way with each other in a car.
00:20:30.44\00:20:35.49
And so you get to the house
and I remember hearing first
00:20:35.52\00:20:39.57
of all your testimony Ron,
and I want you to just talk
00:20:39.61\00:20:43.44
about where you come from
the time before you were sent
00:20:43.48\00:20:47.27
to Vietnam, so
start from childhood.
00:20:47.31\00:20:50.85
As far as I can remember,
ever since I was raised in a
00:20:50.89\00:20:56.29
quote unquote Adventist home,
my father was very abusive.
00:20:56.33\00:21:01.70
We were beat and my
mother was very abusive verbally
00:21:01.73\00:21:05.12
mostly but also physically.
00:21:05.15\00:21:06.77
So that's set up a lot of
anger and rebellion and I was
00:21:06.81\00:21:09.96
told I wasn't going to make
it because I wasn't a doctors
00:21:09.99\00:21:13.00
kid and told later in my
life I would make it because
00:21:13.04\00:21:16.01
I didn't go to college.
00:21:16.05\00:21:17.71
We were forced into you will
read your Bible or your going
00:21:17.75\00:21:22.02
to hell, you will do this and
all we did until I was arrested
00:21:22.05\00:21:26.28
down the road was read
the Bible and do chores
00:21:26.32\00:21:28.88
no fun, no play, no love.
00:21:28.91\00:21:30.17
A lot of abuse, a lot
of hatred, a lot of anger.
00:21:30.21\00:21:33.99
I developed a love of
anger and hatred and pretty soon
00:21:34.02\00:21:38.58
I started hating everybody,
teachers and parents, and cops
00:21:38.62\00:21:43.14
teachers and brother
and it just escalated.
00:21:43.18\00:21:47.69
When someone talks about that
much hatred that much anger in a
00:21:47.73\00:21:51.64
child it is unbelievable, we
talked about it a little earlier
00:21:51.67\00:21:55.22
about the demoniac and his
life was so out of control that
00:21:55.25\00:21:58.76
almost a demonic
possession because of the anger.
00:21:58.80\00:22:02.54
I really believe that
Satan just stays on you, just
00:22:02.57\00:22:05.50
stays on you, and when you
talked about being arrested
00:22:05.53\00:22:08.43
what was that about?
00:22:08.46\00:22:09.97
I got involved in, we were
very poor, and I got involved
00:22:10.01\00:22:15.93
with another friend in a
homicide which involved a cowboy
00:22:15.97\00:22:21.86
and we made it and he didn't.
00:22:21.89\00:22:23.71
So I'm going to go there,
he picked you up and you guys
00:22:23.75\00:22:28.47
decided to rob him or
whatever and beat him up and
00:22:28.50\00:22:30.99
he ends up dying.
And you were how old?
00:22:31.02\00:22:35.81
I was 17 getting ready to
turn 18 so they were going to
00:22:35.85\00:22:40.20
try me as an adult and
that led to some lock up time.
00:22:40.23\00:22:44.01
Not long because they eventually
came down and offered me
00:22:44.05\00:22:48.06
military service, which
they don't do anymore, military
00:22:48.09\00:22:51.54
service in exchange for
dropping the felony for the rest
00:22:51.58\00:22:55.00
of your life. -
and what year was that?
00:22:55.03\00:22:56.51
That was 1967. - so the
military service was Vietnam?
00:22:56.55\00:23:00.87
And they sent me to Vietnam
which now they taught me how
00:23:00.91\00:23:04.58
to kill a right way, if
there's a right way and we know
00:23:04.62\00:23:08.26
there's not and
that created more anger,
00:23:08.29\00:23:10.60
more
frustration, and a hard heart.
00:23:10.64\00:23:13.76
You know what I think
about that kind of thing and you
00:23:13.80\00:23:17.14
were at my house in first
telling me this story, my heart
00:23:17.17\00:23:21.19
just broke for you because
I picture this angry child now
00:23:21.22\00:23:25.20
in the service and
being taught to kill.
00:23:25.23\00:23:27.78
Now drugs coming in and
drinking coming in and all that
00:23:27.82\00:23:29.95
kind of thing
being mixed in with that.
00:23:29.99\00:23:33.44
I felt at that point you
must have been so lost in your
00:23:33.48\00:23:37.50
anger. - I was lost in my
anger and the smallest little
00:23:37.53\00:23:41.52
thing would set me off.
00:23:41.55\00:23:43.31
I think I probably had
the most article 15's of
00:23:43.35\00:23:46.03
anybody in my company.
- what's an article 15?
00:23:46.06\00:23:48.67
It's a military discipline
action where you forfeit your
00:23:48.71\00:23:53.06
pay, loss of rank and extra
duty and pretty soon I think
00:23:53.09\00:23:57.95
when I was in a war situation
making the five level of
00:23:57.98\00:24:02.55
rank that I had pay and overseas
duty pay and combat duty
00:24:02.59\00:24:07.12
pay, I was only making
$200 and something dollars,
00:24:07.15\00:24:10.73
$258 a month and so that
lead into more drugs, dealing
00:24:10.77\00:24:14.29
and black-market situation.
- to increase your income?
00:24:14.33\00:24:17.06
To increase my income so
I could have more drugs and
00:24:17.10\00:24:19.77
more medication of covering
up what you are actually doing
00:24:19.80\00:24:24.25
every day. - as you're
telling me this story I was
00:24:24.28\00:24:28.36
paying attention to Celeste
and your response to him.
00:24:28.39\00:24:32.78
And the response that I
picked up on spiritually was see
00:24:32.81\00:24:37.16
how messed up he is
Cheri? Do you know what I mean?
00:24:37.20\00:24:40.86
So I want you to tell
a little bit because your
00:24:40.89\00:24:43.61
backgrounds are so
different and I want you to tell
00:24:43.64\00:24:46.05
a little bit about your
background and how you grew up
00:24:46.09\00:24:48.46
because it was
different than his.
00:24:48.50\00:24:49.93
Yes I grew up in a Christian
home, went to Christian
00:24:49.96\00:24:53.87
schools, was basically always
a good girl and everything
00:24:53.90\00:24:57.90
had to look right, it was
vitally important that the
00:24:57.93\00:25:01.69
presentation to the public,
if you are having a problem
00:25:01.72\00:25:05.45
at home that was kept at home.
00:25:05.48\00:25:06.96
You never shared anything
and everything always had to
00:25:07.00\00:25:09.51
look good to anybody else.
00:25:09.55\00:25:11.82
This sweet little
girl ended up with him.
00:25:11.85\00:25:16.76
We are not going to get into
all the years in between that
00:25:16.80\00:25:19.83
but I want to go there
right now, just imagine out of
00:25:19.86\00:25:23.32
Vietnam in a few years
have passed and you are still in
00:25:23.35\00:25:27.02
the middle of your anger
and you meet this Adventist girl
00:25:27.06\00:25:30.69
and decide to get married.
00:25:30.72\00:25:33.04
Actually we met at a place I
went to work for, I took a break
00:25:33.08\00:25:37.42
from the stucco trade and went
to work for Loma Linda farms.
00:25:37.46\00:25:41.77
Celeste came to that area
just for the summer with her
00:25:41.81\00:25:46.30
fiancé and she needed a job
and we hired her at the fruit
00:25:46.33\00:25:50.49
stand to sell vegetables
and produce and hay that we were
00:25:50.53\00:25:54.65
producing to pay
taxes on the property.
00:25:54.69\00:25:57.15
One day I told her during
lunch you would make somebody
00:25:57.18\00:26:00.74
a good wife someday. -
never realizing it would be you.
00:26:00.78\00:26:04.10
Never realizing yes, then
one day she kind of got things
00:26:04.13\00:26:07.12
going at the time clock, it
was time to check out and it
00:26:07.16\00:26:10.05
was me and someone else
there and she gave me a kiss.
00:26:10.09\00:26:12.95
That was like do you
know what you are doing?
00:26:12.98\00:26:17.86
And so we broke the
other guys heart eventually.
00:26:17.90\00:26:22.74
That was tough
but that was love.
00:26:22.78\00:26:24.27
I had been in a
situation where it was basically
00:26:24.30\00:26:28.20
infatuation and everybody
in at school wanted this
00:26:28.23\00:26:31.30
particular girl and I
ended up with her two kids later
00:26:31.34\00:26:34.89
and boom it was over five
years before and this was kind
00:26:34.93\00:26:39.15
of a catalyst thing. -
right and you were, and at that
00:26:39.19\00:26:42.51
point you had fallen in
love and you hadn't seen any of
00:26:42.55\00:26:45.84
his anger at that
point? - not that much, no.
00:26:45.88\00:26:50.92
So I want to hear
what your take was on him.
00:26:50.96\00:26:55.93
Was he kind and sweet, because
all we see is that when I
00:26:55.97\00:27:00.14
met him he wasn't angry at
all, I didn't see any of that.
00:27:00.18\00:27:04.89
No, I wouldn't say that I was,
I had always been fascinated
00:27:04.93\00:27:09.61
by somebody on the
other side of the fence.
00:27:09.65\00:27:12.41
- he was the bad boy. - he
was a bad boy and so I love
00:27:12.45\00:27:16.46
the bad boy and I do have
to tell you that after we had
00:27:16.50\00:27:19.68
been together awhile and
the first time he yelled at me,
00:27:19.71\00:27:23.75
it was incredible because
my father had never raised his
00:27:23.78\00:27:27.79
voice at me in my entire life.
00:27:27.82\00:27:29.89
So it was like an experience
I didn't even know what to do.
00:27:29.92\00:27:35.01
I mean it was totally unreal.
00:27:35.04\00:27:37.81
Okay so Ron did your anger, how
did your anger look after you
00:27:37.84\00:27:43.64
guys started to get together
in a relationship and all
00:27:43.68\00:27:47.11
that stuff? You are still
having outbursts of anger?
00:27:47.15\00:27:50.55
I mean how did that look?
00:27:50.59\00:27:52.64
How did it look? -
yeah! - probably not good.
00:27:52.67\00:27:55.88
That was a dumb
question, it was I'm sorry.
00:27:58.19\00:28:00.09
I was still doing drugs and
I was still not dealing with
00:28:00.12\00:28:04.92
some anger from the
father issue and from Vietnam.
00:28:04.96\00:28:08.77
In fact I would do things like
being in public and go right
00:28:08.81\00:28:12.89
up to an Oriental and had no
bones about pulling a fork off
00:28:12.92\00:28:16.81
the table and slamming it,
that was called an assault on
00:28:16.85\00:28:20.28
America and I knew that wasn't
cool but I did know how to
00:28:20.32\00:28:23.72
deal with that type of
hatred I had accumulated.
00:28:23.75\00:28:28.20
You know I want to make
that clear because I think it is
00:28:28.24\00:28:31.56
incredible that you said
the outbursts of anger's were so
00:28:31.59\00:28:34.88
out there, as far as
even what anybody would think.
00:28:34.91\00:28:39.30
And you came from a home that
everything had to look right.
00:28:39.33\00:28:42.52
Here is this guy doing things
where you think that's not
00:28:42.55\00:28:45.71
right, you don't do that.
00:28:45.74\00:28:47.37
So I still looked good that
was really important, because
00:28:47.40\00:28:51.00
I still looked good
and he looked really bad.
00:28:51.03\00:28:53.59
It didn't matter what it
was about, I mean one short
00:28:53.62\00:28:56.62
incident, I have a 57
Chevy pickup that I've restored.
00:28:56.66\00:28:59.98
It's a nice vehicle, a
collectors item but I would slam
00:29:00.02\00:29:03.62
the windshield and break
it, or bust the fender up if it
00:29:03.65\00:29:07.22
didn't run just right
when I was tuning it up.
00:29:07.25\00:29:09.53
Then you have to go get
another windshield and go get
00:29:09.57\00:29:13.16
another fender. - So far it
has not come out on your wife
00:29:13.20\00:29:16.65
and employees and I remember
you one time talking about
00:29:16.69\00:29:20.10
your employees and you
ranted for a long time.
00:29:20.14\00:29:23.95
These are idiots, I'm
like all of them so it came out
00:29:23.98\00:29:30.38
everywhere and one of the
things I want to get to Celeste
00:29:30.42\00:29:36.78
is that I realize in the
time you were at the house,
00:29:36.82\00:29:39.86
and as you were talking I
realized how damaged you were
00:29:39.90\00:29:42.91
Ron, as far as your rage
and how early it started.
00:29:42.95\00:29:45.75
How stuck you were in that
but I also saw that wasn't in
00:29:45.78\00:29:49.38
your heart, which was really
interesting to me that it was
00:29:49.42\00:29:52.98
not your heart and
I felt that strong.
00:29:53.02\00:29:55.61
I all of a sudden realized
Celeste, that you were so
00:29:55.64\00:29:59.84
codependent - and I
was so angry at you.
00:29:59.87\00:30:03.36
Because this whole time I
came to you, okay fix him.
00:30:03.40\00:30:07.58
And you were looking at him
going I just feel so bad for
00:30:07.61\00:30:11.76
you, that must be terrible.
00:30:11.79\00:30:13.54
I'm going what! - and I
turned around at one point to
00:30:13.58\00:30:16.91
Celeste and said, and the
people watching I want you to
00:30:16.95\00:30:20.56
hear this, is Celeste I
think because of your underlying
00:30:20.59\00:30:24.20
issues that you are at
least 50% of the problem in this
00:30:24.24\00:30:27.82
relationship, maybe even 60%.
00:30:27.85\00:30:30.95
I thought she was
going to cut my throat.
00:30:30.98\00:30:33.15
She was going to say you
know what, are you crazy he is
00:30:33.18\00:30:38.13
so angry and I've tolerated
so much for so many years,
00:30:38.16\00:30:43.07
what are you talking about?
00:30:43.11\00:30:45.01
Your reaction to that,
explain a little bit about.
00:30:45.05\00:30:49.19
I was angry, I was furious
- you are going to pack your
00:30:49.23\00:30:54.06
bags and leave my house.
00:30:54.10\00:30:55.63
Well I felt all my issues
again which were rejection and
00:30:55.66\00:30:58.96
abandonment and all of that
because here I came for help
00:30:59.00\00:31:02.26
and you are just rejecting
me and abandoning me and
00:31:02.29\00:31:04.62
taking care of
him, what's wrong?
00:31:04.65\00:31:08.07
I'm good, I'm a good girl, I
did the right thing, I stayed.
00:31:08.11\00:31:12.70
Well not only I stayed but
- I behaved, I tried to say
00:31:12.74\00:31:16.39
the right thing, do the
right thing, look the right way
00:31:16.42\00:31:20.04
and all those things.
00:31:20.07\00:31:21.96
And you know what the reason
I want to kind of get that
00:31:21.99\00:31:25.93
groundwork laid is that we
spent some time together and
00:31:25.97\00:31:29.37
the only thing I can
think of was you guys both want
00:31:29.40\00:31:32.80
really wanted to heal
your relationship and that you
00:31:32.84\00:31:35.61
really needed to
understand each other's issues,
00:31:35.64\00:31:38.38
where you came from.
00:31:38.41\00:31:39.79
Celeste I felt so sure
if you can see any of this
00:31:39.83\00:31:44.21
underlying, I had to be
perfect, be a good girl and take
00:31:44.24\00:31:48.36
care of everybody, and
everybody has to behave, if
00:31:48.39\00:31:50.58
you can see some of
that and surrender it to God
00:31:50.61\00:31:52.93
you could love Him in
a way that would bring
00:31:52.96\00:31:55.25
life to the relationship.
00:31:55.28\00:31:56.99
So you guys leave to go
take care of that and I would
00:31:57.03\00:32:01.51
like for you to tell your
story, and both of you tell
00:32:01.54\00:32:05.88
your story about what God
did from the time He stepped
00:32:05.92\00:32:10.22
in to restore your marriage.
00:32:10.26\00:32:11.97
Well the two tapes that you
showed us there By Binding of
00:32:12.00\00:32:16.80
the Wounds Seminar interested
us in going to see more to
00:32:16.84\00:32:21.60
get more help
and get more tools.
00:32:21.64\00:32:24.20
So we went to Ron
and Nancy Rockies seminar
00:32:24.23\00:32:27.30
- and before for people
that don't know I showed them
00:32:27.34\00:32:30.27
some tapes about
a marriage seminar.
00:32:30.30\00:32:31.95
The marriage seminar I showed
them were some friends of mine
00:32:31.99\00:32:34.68
that are amazing, so they
decided to actually go for a
00:32:34.72\00:32:38.50
week end - right? And I
think it was the Sunday,
00:32:38.53\00:32:41.87
it's a two day thing when
you first start it, if you go to
00:32:41.91\00:32:44.87
the Binding Wounds Seminar
in person, it's a two day thing.
00:32:44.91\00:32:47.68
Sunday at noon we broke for
lunch and I came out of there
00:32:47.72\00:32:51.43
and I had just explained
loudly, these tennis shoes I am
00:32:51.47\00:32:55.35
wearing feel like air Jordan's
times 10. I can do this.
00:32:55.38\00:32:59.78
I found this humongous weight
just leave me and of course
00:32:59.82\00:33:04.19
that is just the
beginning so now what do I do?
00:33:04.22\00:33:06.35
Let me interrupt because
what is amazing to me about who
00:33:06.38\00:33:10.54
you chose to go see is
that he had a tremendous rage
00:33:10.58\00:33:15.31
disorder, a tremendous
rage disorder, this guy is a
00:33:15.34\00:33:19.62
marriage seminar is so
enraged that he would take the
00:33:19.65\00:33:23.64
phone out of his house, put
a pay phone in his house and
00:33:23.68\00:33:27.27
give his wife a quarter so
she could make one call the
00:33:27.30\00:33:31.13
whole time he was at work.
She had to walk a half a mile,
00:33:31.17\00:33:34.96
a quarter of a mile to
get to a neighbor's house
00:33:35.00\00:33:37.03
and use the phone.
00:33:37.07\00:33:38.39
He would if dinner was
ready at a certain time he would
00:33:38.43\00:33:41.45
throw fits and throw things,
put holes in walls, scream,
00:33:41.49\00:33:44.48
yell, and leave and go
to a restaurant if dinner
00:33:44.52\00:33:46.96
was five minutes late.
00:33:47.00\00:33:48.68
He said that he was on
the way to the table but
00:33:48.71\00:33:51.39
not on the table he would
be in enraged. So he really
00:33:51.42\00:33:54.47
knew what you were talking
about what that kind of rage.
00:33:54.51\00:33:57.53
So God sent you into
a place where you could
00:33:57.56\00:34:01.31
so relate to someone.
00:34:01.34\00:34:02.94
Well when we went back to
that same seminar the second
00:34:02.97\00:34:05.91
time, there were many, many
people in the audience and he
00:34:05.94\00:34:08.90
sees me sitting there with
Celeste again and he says what
00:34:08.94\00:34:11.88
are you doing here? Is that
you, Ron can I say something
00:34:11.92\00:34:14.83
about you in front
of all these people?
00:34:14.86\00:34:16.78
I said sure I'd
probably talked to them.
00:34:16.81\00:34:18.66
He said when you walked in
here the first time he looked at
00:34:18.70\00:34:21.77
his wife and said look at this
guy he just reeks with rage.
00:34:21.81\00:34:24.69
He won't last half an hour,
he'll be out of here talking
00:34:24.73\00:34:27.67
trash all way up to the, he
said look you are back again.
00:34:27.70\00:34:31.78
I now look at you and see
radiance, your nickname was rage
00:34:31.82\00:34:35.86
and our talk that we go
out and now do we call it
00:34:35.89\00:34:39.04
- from Rage to Radiance.
And now we're good friends,
00:34:39.07\00:34:41.96
we've gone to Phoenix to
visit and stay with them and
00:34:42.00\00:34:44.85
we love them to death.
00:34:44.89\00:34:47.03
Okay so God really brought
you into a place where you
00:34:47.06\00:34:50.49
could see your issues,
and we talked about change,
00:34:50.53\00:34:53.92
how God does that
I don't even know.
00:34:53.95\00:34:56.62
He sets us exactly in
the place we need to be with
00:34:56.65\00:34:59.43
exactly the people we need
to be with and the Holy Spirit
00:34:59.47\00:35:02.86
starts moving in, you don't
even see it, you just see a
00:35:02.90\00:35:05.81
change in the person's
face, changing their anger and
00:35:05.84\00:35:10.14
the way they
response to all those things.
00:35:10.17\00:35:11.24
And we're going to back to that.
00:35:11.27\00:35:12.24
What about your stuff Celeste
that you have issues that
00:35:12.25\00:35:15.47
were different than
Ron's, and when I said yours was
00:35:15.51\00:35:18.50
going to be harder or that
yours was more of a problem
00:35:18.53\00:35:21.48
is because Ron's
were so apparent.
00:35:21.52\00:35:23.32
If something has a broken
arm is easy to see what to do
00:35:23.35\00:35:25.83
with that, if someone has
rage and that kind of stuff,
00:35:25.86\00:35:29.12
but yours was all silent,
it was all I am doing the right
00:35:29.16\00:35:32.38
thing. So what
we're sure recovery like?
00:35:32.41\00:35:35.06
What did God do with yours?
00:35:35.10\00:35:36.69
It was really slow, first
of all because it was like Ron
00:35:36.73\00:35:39.72
saw everything immediately
because it was on the outside.
00:35:39.76\00:35:42.73
Mine was more like an
onion peeling, just a little bit
00:35:42.77\00:35:45.71
at a time, a little bit
at a time learning that.
00:35:45.75\00:35:47.86
I did hide everything, I did
shut down, I was co-dependent
00:35:47.90\00:35:52.95
and all those things, but
just very, very slowly because
00:35:52.98\00:35:57.47
I had been programmed for
so long to not see any of that.
00:35:57.51\00:36:01.96
So when you talk
about co-dependent
00:36:02.00\00:36:04.26
what do you mean by that?
00:36:04.30\00:36:05.72
It's because I'm thinking
when I, a lot of people watching
00:36:05.76\00:36:10.56
are going to have
codependency tendencies or
00:36:10.59\00:36:13.71
caretakers because they
want things to look good and
00:36:13.74\00:36:15.62
those kind of things.
00:36:15.65\00:36:16.73
Yeah taking care of people,
I always used to try take care
00:36:16.76\00:36:19.61
of Ron, if something was wrong
in the business I would try
00:36:19.65\00:36:22.90
to fix it, I always made
sure that we looked good even
00:36:22.94\00:36:26.16
though he was
being a complete problem.
00:36:26.19\00:36:28.53
What ever, and it is all of
those things and once I stepped
00:36:28.56\00:36:32.26
back from that and
didn't own that it was my
00:36:32.29\00:36:35.09
responsibility to fix
everything, he was perfectly
00:36:35.12\00:36:37.83
capable of doing it and
did a much better job, but it's
00:36:37.87\00:36:40.63
just that we think we
have take care of everything.
00:36:40.67\00:36:43.38
There will there were times
when Celeste would call and
00:36:43.42\00:36:46.44
I would love these calls
because she would call and just
00:36:46.48\00:36:49.26
the healing that was happening
and the love that was coming
00:36:49.30\00:36:52.05
I back into the relationship
between the two of them
00:36:52.08\00:36:55.64
as she realized, as you
realized that I can't make him
00:36:55.67\00:36:59.33
better and I need to just
relax about that and give that
00:36:59.37\00:37:02.99
responsibility to him.
00:37:03.02\00:37:04.37
As God was empowering
you to actually change it was
00:37:04.40\00:37:07.54
amazing to me to
watch you guys grow.
00:37:07.58\00:37:11.09
It was hard when you realized
there was a lot of issues.
00:37:11.12\00:37:15.51
That I really did have a
lot of issues. - yeah, yeah!
00:37:15.55\00:37:18.87
Yeah because I have been
taught my whole life not to
00:37:18.90\00:37:22.19
look at those
things not to see those.
00:37:22.22\00:37:23.85
A really good example is we
were going to church one day,
00:37:23.88\00:37:27.86
and I was driving and he
was over there talking to me.
00:37:27.90\00:37:31.96
This kind of Na-na-na-na
kind of in a rage but he just
00:37:31.99\00:37:35.58
looked over and I thought
I am so sick and tired of you
00:37:35.61\00:37:39.17
flapping your jaw
and I slapped him.
00:37:39.20\00:37:41.58
I have never slapped a guy
in my whole life and he just
00:37:41.61\00:37:45.43
turned around and ducked me.
00:37:45.46\00:37:47.02
And he has never raised a
hand to me either and so I
00:37:47.06\00:37:50.11
pulled the car over, he
took the keys and got out and
00:37:50.15\00:37:52.51
started walking down the
road and someone picked him up.
00:37:52.54\00:37:55.53
I'm like whatever, somebody
will be by that's going to
00:37:55.56\00:37:58.47
church and I'll get a ride with
them, which I did. I went all
00:37:58.51\00:38:01.52
the way through Sabbath school,
all the way through church,
00:38:01.55\00:38:03.46
Pot luck, singing
band and never shed a tear.
00:38:03.49\00:38:06.01
Someone said while hi how
are you and I am like fine.
00:38:06.05\00:38:09.03
Where's Ron? I'm not
sure. I mean I wouldn't even
00:38:09.07\00:38:11.99
address what had happened
that I had never even been hit
00:38:12.02\00:38:15.62
my life and now someone
had hit me and I refuse to even
00:38:15.66\00:38:19.22
acknowledge that
that had happened.
00:38:19.26\00:38:21.28
And what I think is amazing
about a lot of folks in those
00:38:21.31\00:38:25.58
codependent relationships,
somebody is an obvious problem.
00:38:25.62\00:38:29.57
Like I learned that somebody
with an eating disorder could
00:38:29.61\00:38:33.53
have 35 codependent
people working around them that
00:38:33.56\00:38:36.76
are running and
trying to make them better.
00:38:36.79\00:38:38.49
It's like you have somebody
that is actively acting out
00:38:38.52\00:38:41.90
and you have somebody quietly
trying to fix it, but with
00:38:41.93\00:38:45.91
desperation and anxiety,
with everything that comes with
00:38:45.95\00:38:49.76
it, and they are saying is
they are at a point complete
00:38:49.80\00:38:53.54
denial saying what it is
not supposed to be and physical
00:38:53.57\00:38:57.28
violence was no
exception to that.
00:38:57.31\00:39:00.08
I think it is important
to note here that the comment
00:39:00.12\00:39:04.51
that sparked me in the wrong
direction and I accept full
00:39:04.55\00:39:08.57
responsibility for going that
wrong direction was when she
00:39:08.60\00:39:12.59
said to me I don't
have a problem, you do.
00:39:12.62\00:39:15.84
I could see that it was a 2
Way Street here and that was
00:39:15.88\00:39:19.67
more than I can handle and
that doesn't make an excuse.
00:39:19.70\00:39:23.79
But what's amazing to me,
what is interesting is when God
00:39:23.82\00:39:28.51
brings in change, is that
everyone at the table, everyone
00:39:28.55\00:39:33.20
in the relationship God
wants to heal and work with.
00:39:33.23\00:39:36.82
All of us and if we could
get that, if we could get that
00:39:36.86\00:39:40.89
God has an opportunity to
say do not trust yourself.
00:39:40.93\00:39:44.89
There is a place in the
Bible where it says lean not to
00:39:44.93\00:39:48.08
your own understanding
because you do not get the full
00:39:48.11\00:39:51.14
picture, you have to
trust Me and every single thing.
00:39:51.17\00:39:53.65
You have to bring every
single thing to Me in prayer.
00:39:53.69\00:39:56.80
And for people in
recovery, any of us in recovery.
00:39:56.83\00:39:59.87
I'm speaking to any addict
watching right now too, don't
00:39:59.91\00:40:03.72
trust yourself because
you have years and years
00:40:03.76\00:40:07.33
dysfunctional relationships
and your family dynamics,
00:40:07.37\00:40:12.36
I heard a saying one time as if
a number of children or a family
00:40:12.39\00:40:17.84
was living by a polluted
factory that polluted the air.
00:40:17.87\00:40:22.35
It actually brought in cancer
or carcinogens or whatever
00:40:22.38\00:40:26.20
and the kids ended up being
sick it would be real clear
00:40:26.24\00:40:30.02
that the factory
was causing that.
00:40:30.05\00:40:33.06
But in some homes the
pollution is language, verbal or
00:40:33.09\00:40:37.38
emotional pollution and
the kids from early on learn a
00:40:37.41\00:40:41.67
language, and the
language is so well learned.
00:40:41.70\00:40:44.75
You have learned a language
as you were growing up that
00:40:44.78\00:40:48.08
caused you to want to fix
everything, to look good all the
00:40:48.11\00:40:51.38
time, and be right
and want him to be right.
00:40:51.41\00:40:53.87
Not so much for his own
sake, but because this is what
00:40:53.91\00:40:57.30
couples should look like.
00:40:57.34\00:40:58.57
And this is how you
are supposed to behave.
00:40:58.61\00:41:00.70
So now I think we have a real
good picture that we are a mess
00:41:00.74\00:41:05.42
aye, we have a picture, and
I watched God bring the Holy
00:41:05.46\00:41:11.73
Spirit into your relationship
and do some changes.
00:41:11.76\00:41:14.87
So Ron first of all I want
to ask you, one time we were
00:41:14.91\00:41:19.33
sitting together and I saw
that you were still struggling.
00:41:19.36\00:41:23.51
Ron are you leaning on, can
I teach you a little bit about
00:41:23.54\00:41:26.65
what I found out about the
Holy Spirit that God says I
00:41:26.69\00:41:30.34
really want to give you a
baptism of the Holy Spirit so
00:41:30.37\00:41:34.10
that you could not have to
fight so much this struggle.
00:41:34.14\00:41:37.35
And you prayed for that
God would bring the Holy Spirit
00:41:37.38\00:41:40.56
into your life, did
that make you change for you?
00:41:40.59\00:41:45.06
It made a tremendous
change. At first I was wondering
00:41:45.10\00:41:50.06
what, for what? But when
you baptized us with the Holy
00:41:50.09\00:41:54.60
Spirit, ever since that
time the desire has changed.
00:41:54.63\00:41:59.06
The constant awareness that
Jesus loves me and wants me to
00:41:59.10\00:42:03.63
share that with others, and
wants me to react properly to
00:42:03.66\00:42:08.16
no matter what the
situation that comes up.
00:42:08.19\00:42:10.14
No matter what. I've seen
some people now that have come
00:42:10.17\00:42:14.81
back to me later that witnessed
situations that said in your
00:42:14.85\00:42:18.43
old self you would have climbed
over the counter to that.
00:42:18.47\00:42:22.08
- and grabbed him by the
throat. - just when I had been
00:42:22.11\00:42:25.83
3 and 1/2 hours away called
and said to you that material
00:42:25.87\00:42:28.93
there, they said yes I'm
sitting here looking at it and
00:42:28.96\00:42:34.43
drive there and it is not
there and I went oh, okay.
00:42:34.46\00:42:40.21
So when will it be in? And
one of my brother in laws was
00:42:40.25\00:42:44.82
sitting there watching that
happen and he was blown away.
00:42:44.85\00:42:48.50
Later on he told me about
it said I expected the cops
00:42:48.54\00:42:51.77
to be there in a couple
minutes, and I said well was
00:42:51.81\00:42:55.00
it really worth it?
00:42:55.04\00:42:56.44
You go through these
feelings and you cannot cry over
00:42:56.47\00:42:59.32
spilled milk, you got to go
for it today, and if you make
00:42:59.35\00:43:02.17
a mistake you brush yourself
off and keep going and say
00:43:02.21\00:43:05.00
Jesus just help me the next
time to do it the right way.
00:43:05.03\00:43:08.46
The new highs, as ex-druggies
of these we know that word,
00:43:08.49\00:43:11.88
the new high is doing it right.
00:43:11.91\00:43:13.74
- having God give you
the ability to do it right
00:43:13.78\00:43:17.48
yeah it's not me, it's not
me, I said that this morning
00:43:17.52\00:43:20.68
at the end of that show I
give all the credit Jesus Christ
00:43:20.71\00:43:24.88
because I have a thing on
my dresser that used to be on
00:43:24.91\00:43:28.82
our desk and it says I can
do all things, but it doesn't
00:43:28.85\00:43:32.73
stop there. Through
Him who strengthens me.
00:43:32.76\00:43:36.91
Now I have many incidents
where that moment of impact or
00:43:36.95\00:43:41.86
the temptation is there
again, whatever that is someone
00:43:41.89\00:43:45.68
has shared with me thank
Him for the victory before
00:43:45.71\00:43:48.94
you even get it, when you
do that it sends your mind to
00:43:48.98\00:43:52.47
Jesus to have victory and
then that problem seems to just
00:43:52.50\00:43:55.95
vanish, not every
time but it's a daily.
00:43:55.99\00:44:00.11
You don't do right every
time but what is really nice
00:44:00.14\00:44:03.46
about as God moves us into a
place where I can start turning
00:44:03.49\00:44:06.77
it over to Him and this
is that I do it right more
00:44:06.81\00:44:08.51
than I used to. - right
she called me one time when I
00:44:08.55\00:44:11.57
was on the way to work.
00:44:11.61\00:44:12.58
Three employees were not
going to show and I needed them
00:44:12.59\00:44:15.87
there, her and I were struggling
with an issue and I had
00:44:15.90\00:44:18.71
a lady in court for a year
and a half that wouldn't pay
00:44:18.75\00:44:21.56
and eventually had to, so
things were falling down again.
00:44:21.59\00:44:24.24
She calls and says what are
you doing and I said singing.
00:44:24.28\00:44:27.00
She said what are you
singing, I said I'm singing Just
00:44:27.04\00:44:30.42
When I Need Him Most, to
choose to do things like that
00:44:30.45\00:44:33.80
sends your mine into
a direction that is more
00:44:33.84\00:44:37.38
healing, more positive.
00:44:37.42\00:44:40.35
I was very much a negative
person, and I had watched what
00:44:40.39\00:44:43.88
I done to my wife and it hurt.
00:44:43.92\00:44:46.61
But God is good and He rebuilds.
00:44:46.65\00:44:49.27
- He's reconciling both
you to Him and each other.
00:44:49.30\00:44:52.75
Which is amazing
00:44:52.78\00:44:54.60
- and I would tell the
world that I love this lady.
00:44:54.63\00:44:56.26
- that's incredible so I'm
going to find out if there is
00:44:56.30\00:45:00.25
anybody that has any questions,
I knew Christy you wanted
00:45:00.29\00:45:04.21
to ask Ron or
Celeste a question, go ahead.
00:45:04.25\00:45:08.05
This is for Celeste, when
Cheri had told you that you
00:45:08.09\00:45:15.66
were co-dependent and God
really showing you in revealing
00:45:15.70\00:45:23.24
that to you, how
exactly did you take that?
00:45:23.27\00:45:26.48
How exactly did you?
00:45:26.51\00:45:27.91
Do you know even though it
is hard for you to finish this
00:45:27.95\00:45:33.10
the first time I met Christy
I would have to say we were
00:45:33.13\00:45:37.35
doing an intervention with
your husband who was a meth
00:45:37.39\00:45:41.71
addict, and talking with
him and realizing that you were
00:45:41.74\00:45:46.03
not an addict and
you have not acted out.
00:45:46.06\00:45:49.11
She was a nice girl,
do you know what I mean?
00:45:49.14\00:45:52.11
Married to this guy that
was out of control, and you are
00:45:52.15\00:45:54.32
pregnant or just had a child?
00:45:54.36\00:45:56.75
- yes I had just had my son and
00:45:56.78\00:45:59.10
he was like two weeks old
when I found out my husband
00:45:59.14\00:46:01.47
was doing meth, so
that was quite a shock.
00:46:01.50\00:46:04.11
So what was interesting to
me was that even as we were
00:46:04.15\00:46:07.78
dealing with this one to
one with her husband, I realize
00:46:07.81\00:46:11.40
that Christy you were enabling
a lot of his behavior and
00:46:11.43\00:46:15.32
had to get some strength
under you so that your family
00:46:15.35\00:46:19.20
wasn't destroyed,
so how did you respond?
00:46:19.24\00:46:22.32
Well at first like Celeste,
I don't think I told to but I
00:46:22.35\00:46:29.26
was mad, this guy he is a
messed up one and I am a new
00:46:29.30\00:46:35.88
mom, a new bride and you go
through a lot of emotions and
00:46:35.92\00:46:41.73
so that was new and then
you find out your husband is
00:46:41.77\00:46:47.55
doing meth, I
mean that is a shock.
00:46:47.58\00:46:49.64
You're like wait a minute,
we came here to fix him and
00:46:49.67\00:46:54.67
now we are talking about me.
It was like I don't get this.
00:46:54.71\00:47:00.62
But she was right, when I went
home we didn't talk and I just
00:47:00.66\00:47:06.54
thought Cheri is right, I
was so used to helping Terri
00:47:06.57\00:47:14.43
and being that crutch.
00:47:14.46\00:47:17.06
I would beg you please
Terri get help because otherwise
00:47:17.09\00:47:23.42
you are going to destroy
yourself, you're going to
00:47:23.45\00:47:26.05
destroy this family,
you're going to lose your job,
00:47:26.09\00:47:28.65
we are going to be broke.
00:47:28.69\00:47:30.73
And at that time I quit my job.
00:47:30.76\00:47:33.02
- and this is
unsafe for my children.
00:47:33.05\00:47:34.62
- so I begged and
pleaded and please get help.
00:47:38.61\00:47:43.43
Because I have no background
in drugs, I don't know how
00:47:43.46\00:47:51.12
this game works, so once
he told me Chris you are very
00:47:51.16\00:47:58.78
much codependent - and
so let me ask Celeste when
00:47:58.81\00:48:02.89
she is talking about her
reaction to being codependent
00:48:02.92\00:48:07.12
and some of those things.
00:48:07.15\00:48:08.26
How did that strengthen
you? How did that strengthen
00:48:08.30\00:48:11.24
your relationship with
God? To understand that maybe
00:48:11.27\00:48:14.68
I have some issues that I
could look at, maybe it is
00:48:14.71\00:48:18.08
not so out of control.
00:48:18.12\00:48:19.70
First of all I have to say
it, it took a really long time.
00:48:19.74\00:48:22.55
Like a year and a half or
something. It did take a long
00:48:22.58\00:48:26.28
time before I could see those
things clearly because I had
00:48:26.32\00:48:29.99
lived in denial and my family
dynamics had been everything
00:48:30.02\00:48:34.14
was okay for so long
that I couldn't even see or
00:48:34.17\00:48:37.31
understand what that was.
00:48:37.34\00:48:39.94
As far as me relating it to
God, I think I don't have to
00:48:39.98\00:48:45.93
fix everything now, like
you say God is my Father,
00:48:45.96\00:48:48.95
He takes care of things and
of one of the things that I have
00:48:48.99\00:48:53.07
learned to really
live by is the only person
00:48:53.10\00:48:55.60
I can change is myself.
00:48:55.63\00:48:57.57
In the last couple months
there has been a time or two
00:48:57.61\00:49:01.23
when Ron and I had a, I
will just say issue, it wasn't
00:49:01.26\00:49:04.85
a fight, it
wasn't anything like that
00:49:04.89\00:49:06.56
and I was really frustrated.
00:49:06.60\00:49:08.34
I came back to, I can only
change myself and so I went
00:49:08.38\00:49:13.70
to my knees and say
God what do you want me
00:49:13.74\00:49:16.26
to do different here. - Amen
00:49:16.30\00:49:19.29
What do you want me to change -
00:49:19.33\00:49:20.57
that is the most
incredible thing is that
00:49:20.60\00:49:22.76
instead of saying I need to
You change him, I need You to
00:49:22.80\00:49:26.01
fix him or what ever is to
be able to come back and say
00:49:26.04\00:49:28.69
what is it that I'm doing
and what can I look like at?
00:49:28.72\00:49:31.30
To me when you first said that
to me on the phone I wanted to
00:49:31.34\00:49:34.40
reach over and
kiss you on the face.
00:49:34.43\00:49:36.55
What an
incredible step in growth.
00:49:36.59\00:49:38.64
And you know what, before
I had finished praying he was
00:49:38.67\00:49:41.54
calling me back apologizing
for what he just didn't
00:49:41.57\00:49:45.04
understand at all and I
was like oh this is cool.
00:49:45.07\00:49:48.47
But it is really hard to
let go, when you have your whole
00:49:48.50\00:49:53.35
life taken care of making
the problem right and you don't
00:49:53.39\00:49:57.14
think of yourself as controlling
you are only trying to help.
00:49:57.18\00:50:00.90
Controlling is someone who
just, but you are only trying
00:50:00.94\00:50:05.51
to help. - right. So
to let go of that is hard.
00:50:05.54\00:50:10.06
- it's absolutely hard.
And I have to say for as
00:50:10.10\00:50:14.55
we look at how God changes
us in a relationship where
00:50:14.58\00:50:18.86
you are committed to
Christ or healing or change or
00:50:18.90\00:50:23.66
recovery is to really say
God what is it about me that
00:50:23.70\00:50:27.45
needs to be different? What
is it about me that is adding
00:50:27.49\00:50:31.21
to this? I have to even
say as I watched you guys go
00:50:31.25\00:50:35.59
through this process, and
it did take you longer because
00:50:35.62\00:50:38.28
yours wasn't as an evident
and it wasn't as obvious.
00:50:38.31\00:50:41.94
But when I started getting
this with my own relationship
00:50:41.98\00:50:45.41
with Brad, I'm married to a
non-Christian and he hadn't been
00:50:45.44\00:50:48.61
a Christian for years and I
am doing evangelism and he's
00:50:48.64\00:50:51.43
not even a Christian and I
used to pray all the time God
00:50:51.46\00:50:55.40
fix him, fix him it's time
and finally God said, take a
00:50:55.43\00:50:59.93
breath, fix your self and
I've realized that in my saying
00:50:59.97\00:51:04.51
fix him I was not showing not
being able to love or respect
00:51:04.55\00:51:09.06
him in a way that
would allow the Holy Spirit
00:51:09.09\00:51:10.70
to stand him up.
00:51:10.74\00:51:12.30
So I started looking at
myself and he was fixed within
00:51:12.33\00:51:15.13
like six months and not fixed
where he doesn't have issues,
00:51:15.17\00:51:19.09
fixed where he is moving close
to God and seeing that and is
00:51:19.12\00:51:23.41
responding to the Holy Spirit
and so to be I think on this
00:51:23.45\00:51:27.46
show on change and recovery
is to be able to look at not
00:51:27.49\00:51:31.47
only Ron the person with
the obvious issues that is
00:51:31.50\00:51:34.79
exploding all over the place,
but those around us that are
00:51:34.82\00:51:39.36
maybe quietly enabling
and still feeling as lost.
00:51:39.40\00:51:44.10
But just quieter and
God says if you give Me the
00:51:44.14\00:51:48.81
opportunity I will
come in and bring peace.
00:51:48.84\00:51:52.00
There was another question
out here, was that Pam were you
00:51:52.03\00:51:57.27
going to ask a question?
00:51:57.30\00:51:58.64
Yes I wanted to ask Ron is
your anger completely gone,
00:51:58.67\00:52:02.89
or is it something
you've learned to manage?
00:52:02.93\00:52:05.46
I think it would be more
like something God has helped me
00:52:05.49\00:52:09.34
to learn to manage.
00:52:09.37\00:52:11.27
I had a little incident where
one day it felt so different
00:52:11.30\00:52:15.14
not to explode, but that was
my type of current drug so to
00:52:15.17\00:52:18.66
speak, so I had to explode
I thought so I went up to the
00:52:18.70\00:52:22.15
closet and closed
the door and let it rip.
00:52:22.19\00:52:24.96
I came outside and said
now, the Holy Spirit has really
00:52:25.00\00:52:30.15
put on my heart the true
meaning of love and there's two
00:52:30.18\00:52:35.29
feelings there, love and hate.
00:52:35.33\00:52:37.02
Love is so much stronger
and I am making choices to do
00:52:37.06\00:52:41.46
different things like when
I was furious one day at the
00:52:41.49\00:52:44.77
job I went over to the
sand pile and I wanted to take
00:52:44.80\00:52:48.04
the shovel,
that was my humanity.
00:52:48.08\00:52:50.18
Jesus said to me Ron, He
talked with His voice and said
00:52:50.21\00:52:53.28
what does it really matter
here that I make the dollar
00:52:53.31\00:52:55.85
that I showed and you
should help me do that or that I
00:52:55.88\00:52:58.39
show you some different?
00:52:58.42\00:52:59.89
So I want to show you some
different, and I start to tell
00:52:59.92\00:53:02.39
them how much I cared
about what they did was good.
00:53:02.43\00:53:05.50
You know I like what you
say Ron is set to actually hear
00:53:05.54\00:53:09.06
the Holy Spirit saying to
you no Ron stop, take a breath
00:53:09.09\00:53:12.58
and this is what
I want you to say.
00:53:12.61\00:53:14.04
What is really amazing to me
is when you say that you feel
00:53:14.07\00:53:18.11
great. - being in tune
with what that emotion has done
00:53:18.15\00:53:22.14
and saying I do not want
to do that to my wife or other
00:53:22.18\00:53:26.14
people around me anymore.
00:53:26.17\00:53:28.14
I choose, and sometimes
that is biting down and choosing
00:53:28.17\00:53:33.77
to not be negative and to
put that energy into something
00:53:33.81\00:53:38.65
positive, for instance okay
I'll go ahead and buckle down
00:53:38.69\00:53:42.91
a little harder on this
project here because even though
00:53:42.94\00:53:47.13
these humans are not
producing we need to get to a
00:53:47.16\00:53:50.72
certain point here and so
I will show them an example
00:53:50.75\00:53:54.27
and let it be a
positive example.
00:53:54.31\00:53:56.25
No it's not totally gone,
there are still times there and
00:53:56.29\00:53:59.23
I'm still seeing some of it.
00:53:59.27\00:54:00.72
I will take a deep breath
and come back in the house and
00:54:00.76\00:54:03.35
say we have to work
this out babe right now.
00:54:03.38\00:54:06.18
We have to get this fixed. -
I want to say I love you guys.
00:54:06.22\00:54:10.43
Thank you so much for joining
us and we have to go now.
00:54:10.46\00:54:14.13
This has been amazing and
I love to watch the changes
00:54:14.17\00:54:17.42
that God has made in
your life. Absolutely amazing.
00:54:17.46\00:54:20.68
Amazing stories of real people
in real situations discussing
00:54:26.58\00:54:29.96
issues that really matter.
00:54:30.00\00:54:32.03
A complete first season of
Celebrating Life In Recover is
00:54:32.06\00:54:35.43
now available on DVD and
can be ordered by calling 3ABN
00:54:35.47\00:54:38.80
or online at 3ABN.org
hosted by Cheri Peters.
00:54:38.84\00:54:41.97
This season follows
principles of the book
00:54:42.00\00:54:45.10
'Steps to Christ'.
00:54:45.13\00:54:46.70
See for yourself how
God changed the lives of the
00:54:46.73\00:54:48.65
convicted and the accused
and victims of terrible crimes.
00:54:48.68\00:54:51.73
You won't want to miss a moment
00:54:51.77\00:54:53.49
of these powerful interviews.
00:54:53.52\00:54:55.20
I've heard a lot of people say
in their recovery, I know that
00:54:58.09\00:55:01.03
God loves me, I know that
I'm forgiven but I also know
00:55:01.07\00:55:04.59
that I am a mess and I know
that I stand up and fall down
00:55:04.62\00:55:08.11
and do the very
things I don't want to do.
00:55:08.15\00:55:10.15
Paul says in the Bible I
don't want to do this than I do
00:55:10.19\00:55:13.70
it, the things I want to do
I don't do and he just breaks
00:55:13.73\00:55:17.47
down and cries oh wretched
man that I am who's going to
00:55:17.51\00:55:21.21
save me from this body of death.
00:55:21.24\00:55:23.39
I want to say to anybody with
those feelings is Jesus will.
00:55:23.42\00:55:26.83
He so knows us, I don't
care if you stand up and fall a
00:55:26.87\00:55:30.41
hundred times, if you have
to come weeping at His feet
00:55:30.44\00:55:33.97
just saying I'm asking
you again to please change me.
00:55:34.01\00:55:37.86
Please forgive me, please
teach me what it feels like to
00:55:37.90\00:55:41.73
respond to the situation in
a calm way and not in anger.
00:55:41.76\00:55:45.54
Or like Celeste was talking
about the issues of wanting
00:55:45.58\00:55:49.33
to be perfect and
control the situation and
00:55:49.36\00:55:52.47
take care for everybody.
00:55:52.51\00:55:54.09
Teach me to allow You to
take care of me and I think that
00:55:54.13\00:55:57.11
God says that it's going
to take awhile because you are
00:55:57.14\00:56:00.09
so in a habit of
doing something in anger.
00:56:00.12\00:56:03.60
You are so much in a
habit of responding in a certain
00:56:03.64\00:56:06.71
way that I'm going to have
to allow you to feel what it
00:56:06.75\00:56:09.99
feels like for the Holy Spirit
to almost respond for you.
00:56:10.03\00:56:13.68
As I asked for the Holy
Spirit in the situation where
00:56:13.72\00:56:17.76
He pours into me His Holy
Spirit, I can feel that peace
00:56:17.80\00:56:21.32
and respond to that situation
and everything in me says you
00:56:21.35\00:56:26.19
know, I like that, I like
how that feels, I like how the
00:56:26.22\00:56:31.02
response is that people
are actually getting healed
00:56:31.05\00:56:34.39
rather than
running from Me in anger.
00:56:34.43\00:56:36.48
God says I will teach you,
the very desires you have right
00:56:36.51\00:56:41.12
now will change those.
00:56:41.15\00:56:42.56
You will fall in love with
things you don't like right now
00:56:42.59\00:56:45.15
and you will hate
the things that you like.
00:56:45.18\00:56:47.05
As God changes you, no one
will see the change start but
00:56:47.08\00:56:51.05
they see it in your reactions
and they see it in your
00:56:51.08\00:56:54.97
face and they see it in your
family and they see it around
00:56:55.01\00:56:57.31
the dinner table and
they see it at church.
00:56:57.34\00:56:59.78
You have so much to give and
the Holy Spirit is so ready to
00:56:59.82\00:57:05.35
bring in those changes
that you will be surprised at
00:57:05.39\00:57:09.43
yourself, I don't care if
you have been strung out your
00:57:09.46\00:57:13.09
whole life, I don't care
if you've been depressed your
00:57:13.12\00:57:16.34
whole life give the Holy
Spirit a chance and the Holy
00:57:16.37\00:57:19.59
Spirit will come into the
situation and teach you what it
00:57:19.62\00:57:23.23
feels like to stand holy
in the presence of a holy God.
00:57:23.26\00:57:26.83
Full of joy, full of
hope and with my background,
00:57:26.87\00:57:30.14
I'm telling you, I
absolutely love life.
00:57:30.17\00:57:33.88
I absolutely love the fact
that I can step into a situation
00:57:33.92\00:57:39.27
and respond
appropriately, most the time.
00:57:39.31\00:57:43.65
I trust God with that and
the things I struggle with
00:57:43.68\00:57:47.73
I know that it is just a
matter of time before He unfolds
00:57:47.77\00:57:51.74
that in front of me and
allows me in a social situation
00:57:51.77\00:57:55.78
or any kind of situation
to know exactly what is good
00:57:55.81\00:57:59.79
and what is not.
00:57:59.82\00:58:01.12
See you next time in
Celebrating Life In Recovery
00:58:01.15\00:58:03.33