Welcome to
Celebrating Life In Recovery,
00:00:10.66\00:00:12.56
I'm Cheri your host.
00:00:12.59\00:00:13.67
We are always hearing
about the addict, what about the
00:00:13.71\00:00:16.57
people affected
by their choices?
00:00:16.61\00:00:18.65
Come join us, we are
going to look at how our life
00:00:18.68\00:00:22.29
changes by the
choices of other people.
00:00:22.32\00:00:24.72
We have absolutely an
incredible show today.
00:00:52.02\00:00:54.02
I would like the topic,
because when I first got into
00:00:54.05\00:00:56.55
recovery I always
thought of the addict.
00:00:56.58\00:00:59.40
I thought the person that
was strung out, or gambling
00:00:59.44\00:01:03.29
problem, or financial problems,
or workaholic, somebody
00:01:03.32\00:01:07.13
cheating on their
wife, or whatever.
00:01:07.17\00:01:08.82
I never thought about
the fallout from them.
00:01:08.85\00:01:12.00
I never thought about the
people who actually have to
00:01:12.04\00:01:15.13
pick up the pieces of
their lives because of somebody
00:01:15.16\00:01:17.89
else's choice and so we
are going to cover that today.
00:01:17.93\00:01:20.59
First of all I want to introduce
you to the people at the café.
00:01:20.63\00:01:23.28
We have Maritza, I want
to thank you for joining us.
00:01:23.32\00:01:25.80
Bonnie, Connie, Joy, I love you.
00:01:25.84\00:01:28.81
We have Pam and Marcia and
I want to just say welcome.
00:01:28.84\00:01:33.57
Thank you for joining us,
I can't even say it's going
00:01:33.61\00:01:38.30
to be a blast, but we
are going to go through
00:01:38.34\00:01:40.50
a lot and learn a lot.
00:01:40.53\00:01:41.96
Joy we are going to be
doing an interview with you
00:01:42.00\00:01:44.71
and I want to thank
you so much for joining us.
00:01:44.74\00:01:48.25
You have blessed me, and
a lot of people know that
00:01:48.28\00:01:51.72
I have come from... my family
were addicts and that I was
00:01:51.75\00:01:55.18
homeless by the age of 13
and one found Christ at 23.
00:01:55.21\00:01:58.93
I was illiterate, I was so
afraid, I didn't know how to
00:01:58.97\00:02:02.65
trust anybody, I
didn't know anything.
00:02:02.69\00:02:05.99
I didn't know how I was
going to stand, I didn't know
00:02:06.03\00:02:09.30
how I was going to figure
out how to act normal or be
00:02:09.34\00:02:12.58
normal or whatever.
00:02:12.61\00:02:14.06
During my recovery, and
it had taken years to step up
00:02:14.09\00:02:18.40
and learn how to allow
Christ to come into my life and
00:02:18.44\00:02:22.71
change things, somebody
gave me a book you wrote.
00:02:22.75\00:02:26.13
I read this book and it
gave me so much courage that
00:02:26.17\00:02:29.61
I thought, if she can get
through what she got through,
00:02:29.65\00:02:33.06
I can stand too.
00:02:33.09\00:02:34.64
So I want you to know that
you have blessed me and helped
00:02:34.67\00:02:39.23
me to stand up and I am
so honored to have you here
00:02:39.26\00:02:41.54
today and we will
hear your whole story.
00:02:41.58\00:02:43.78
But I want to talk about a
few things before we get there.
00:02:43.81\00:02:46.77
I have gone into a ministry
and the ministry has been
00:02:46.80\00:02:50.81
absolutely amazing, I work
with meth addicts, I work with
00:02:50.85\00:02:54.82
people in prison, I work
with people who have eating
00:02:54.86\00:02:59.85
disorders, gambling
addictions, shopaholics,
00:02:59.88\00:03:03.36
self mutilator's and I
work with some intense folks.
00:03:03.40\00:03:06.16
It doesn't scare me to go
into those lives because I know
00:03:06.19\00:03:14.41
that God is bigger. I
know that God can come in and
00:03:14.44\00:03:18.63
restore somebody almost
like that if that is His plan
00:03:18.66\00:03:22.82
for that person is.
00:03:22.85\00:03:24.34
I go in with so much hope
that we have a God that says,
00:03:24.37\00:03:26.90
I don't care where you
come from, not that I don't care
00:03:26.93\00:03:29.66
in a way He has no sympathy
for us, but I don't care
00:03:29.69\00:03:32.38
because I want to restore you.
00:03:32.42\00:03:34.44
Our theme text for
Celebrating Life In Recovery is
00:03:34.48\00:03:38.17
Isaiah 57:18 and it
says, I know all your stuff,
00:03:38.20\00:03:41.38
I know all your stuff
and I will heal you anyway,
00:03:41.42\00:03:44.59
I will led you, I will
guide you, I will comfort you.
00:03:44.63\00:03:47.76
It even says I will
comfort those who mourn.
00:03:47.80\00:03:50.48
I really believe for
myself as the addict, that He is
00:03:50.51\00:03:53.62
talking about our families,
our spouses, our parents,
00:03:53.66\00:03:56.93
those that we have so trashed
God said He will even step
00:03:56.97\00:04:00.26
in and comfort them as I
bring restoration to everyone.
00:04:00.29\00:04:04.51
So I am so sure in those
arenas and I started to work
00:04:04.55\00:04:08.73
with this woman,
her name is Chris.
00:04:08.76\00:04:10.52
I love her, I didn't realize
when I first met Chris she
00:04:10.55\00:04:15.03
had a wound on her leg.
00:04:15.06\00:04:16.59
A horrible looking thing,
and I said Chris what happened?
00:04:16.62\00:04:21.78
She looked at me so
serious and said they think it's
00:04:21.81\00:04:25.39
cancer, I said man
it looks like cancer.
00:04:25.42\00:04:29.31
Because it just looked
like it was infected, it looked
00:04:29.35\00:04:32.83
like there was definitely
something, like a process
00:04:32.86\00:04:36.31
that was going on and
it was really intense.
00:04:36.35\00:04:38.02
So about a week or so into
our relationship she tells me
00:04:38.05\00:04:42.67
the truth, she was in the
garage with a gun and she was
00:04:42.70\00:04:47.28
going to blow her head off.
00:04:47.32\00:04:48.60
She heard her children
calling out her name and
00:04:48.63\00:04:53.53
she thought, what am I doing?
00:04:53.56\00:04:55.12
She pulled the gun down
and as she pulled it down she
00:04:55.15\00:04:58.01
had already pulled
the trigger and shot
00:04:58.04\00:04:59.77
herself in the leg.
00:04:59.80\00:05:00.95
She was so embarrassed
about the whole thing that she
00:05:00.98\00:05:04.54
said I'm not going to
tell anybody so this has still
00:05:04.57\00:05:07.81
got fragments and it and
its festering and infected.
00:05:07.84\00:05:11.11
What she is telling people
now rather than fess up is
00:05:11.14\00:05:14.38
that I have cancer.
00:05:14.41\00:05:16.95
I talked with her and said
what's up, what is going on?
00:05:16.99\00:05:20.72
The story that I heard
from her absolutely was the
00:05:20.75\00:05:25.79
saddest thing I ever heard.
00:05:25.82\00:05:26.96
She told me that she
had a son Lance Michael.
00:05:27.00\00:05:29.43
Lance Michael was the
love of her life, she couldn't
00:05:29.47\00:05:33.08
have kids and it was
really difficult for her because
00:05:33.11\00:05:36.17
she wanted a family, and
her husband, wanted a family and
00:05:36.20\00:05:39.16
they tried everything,
they even looked into adoption.
00:05:39.20\00:05:42.11
They finally adopted a child
and right after the adoption,
00:05:42.14\00:05:45.07
you have heard this before
how somebody ends up pregnant.
00:05:45.11\00:05:47.81
They had adopted this little
girl and she gets pregnant
00:05:47.85\00:05:50.52
and she's the
best mom, the best mom.
00:05:50.56\00:05:54.93
She loves this kid, she and
the adopted little girl just had
00:05:54.97\00:05:59.99
the best time and got into
all the activities kids get
00:06:00.02\00:06:03.39
into, she was a soccer mom.
00:06:03.42\00:06:05.04
This kid was just beautiful
and just beautiful little boy.
00:06:05.07\00:06:09.82
He started growing up and
got on ski teams and did well.
00:06:09.85\00:06:13.53
As he was in school they
found out that he had a learning
00:06:13.57\00:06:17.22
disability,
right, he was dyslexic.
00:06:17.25\00:06:19.56
So he had real difficulty
reading and that was okay
00:06:19.60\00:06:23.08
when he was in
elementary school.
00:06:23.12\00:06:24.67
When he got into high
school he was no longer okay.
00:06:24.71\00:06:27.83
He gets into high school
and starts getting teased and
00:06:27.87\00:06:31.41
can't keep up with the other
kids and it was so shameful
00:06:31.44\00:06:34.97
to him that he starts to
hang out with the kids that were
00:06:35.01\00:06:38.51
doing meth, drinking
and all that kind of stuff.
00:06:38.54\00:06:41.98
When he did the meth,
he said I felt like a King.
00:06:42.02\00:06:46.12
I felt like I was no
longer ashamed, I was no longer
00:06:46.16\00:06:49.93
the kid that couldn't
learn, I just felt like a king.
00:06:49.97\00:06:53.50
He got strung out really
fast and his mom said it was
00:06:53.53\00:06:56.42
almost like one day, one
day she came to pick him up,
00:06:56.46\00:06:59.32
what happened?
What happened to you?
00:06:59.35\00:07:02.68
Nothing she could do
would make a difference.
00:07:02.72\00:07:06.53
He was swearing and he
had never sworn before.
00:07:06.56\00:07:11.01
He was disrespectful, it
was horrible and she said
00:07:11.05\00:07:15.47
I couldn't figure anything out.
00:07:15.50\00:07:17.34
I kept thinking
something is wrong.
00:07:17.38\00:07:19.46
She said I took him to
counselors, I took him all over
00:07:19.49\00:07:21.73
the place and people
said you are overreacting.
00:07:21.76\00:07:25.30
This is a normal
process, kids have to rebel.
00:07:25.33\00:07:28.80
They have to walk away
and this is his way of cutting
00:07:28.83\00:07:31.86
the umbilical cord and
they made her feel stupid.
00:07:31.89\00:07:34.74
So she tried to let go
and this kid then starts
00:07:34.77\00:07:37.58
running away from home.
00:07:37.61\00:07:38.68
She finds out by somebody
who calls her up and said,
00:07:38.72\00:07:41.47
Chris can I ask you something?
00:07:41.50\00:07:43.48
What is Lance
Michael's drug of choice?
00:07:43.52\00:07:46.32
She said what? What is his
drug of choice do you think?
00:07:47.79\00:07:54.95
Tylenol? So she was ignorant
and I mean that, I love her
00:07:54.99\00:08:02.12
and she had no idea
what they were saying.
00:08:02.15\00:08:04.81
The person said no I
think he is doing meth.
00:08:04.84\00:08:07.43
She said what? You think
he is doing meth what is that?
00:08:07.47\00:08:10.65
What are you talking about?
00:08:10.68\00:08:11.74
She ends up going around to
different people saying what is
00:08:11.77\00:08:16.59
meth, what do I look
for, and what are the signs?
00:08:16.62\00:08:19.37
She finds a detective that
is willing to sit down, from
00:08:19.40\00:08:22.40
narcotics, that was willing
to sit down and talk with her.
00:08:22.43\00:08:25.39
This guy is amazing, he
says I will give you some
00:08:25.43\00:08:28.50
information on what is meth.
00:08:28.54\00:08:30.41
The behavioral changes
and what will happen with your
00:08:30.45\00:08:32.46
children, or anybody listening.
00:08:32.50\00:08:34.27
Their friends change,
they're great start dropping,
00:08:34.31\00:08:37.50
they are more air
trouble and will become more
00:08:37.54\00:08:39.78
disrespectful and start
disconnecting from your family.
00:08:39.81\00:08:42.44
Those types of things
and he starts talking to her
00:08:42.48\00:08:44.72
about those becoming behavioral
changes and she is like,
00:08:44.75\00:08:47.77
how could I missed that?
How could I have missed that?
00:08:47.80\00:08:50.78
So the detective
said who is your son?
00:08:50.81\00:08:54.74
Lance Chatman she
said. Lance is your son?
00:08:54.78\00:08:58.67
She said, oh do you know Lance?
00:08:58.71\00:09:01.94
She's thinking all how
sweet is that, he knows my son.
00:09:01.97\00:09:06.09
He said yes, he is one of
the biggest dealers in the area.
00:09:06.12\00:09:10.21
We have been
watching him for a long time.
00:09:10.24\00:09:13.15
Now she is totally
crushed, totally crushed.
00:09:13.18\00:09:16.02
She finds out that they had
been watching him for a long
00:09:16.06\00:09:19.52
time and this guy slips
and tells her where he is.
00:09:19.55\00:09:23.54
She goes and gets
her nails done that day.
00:09:23.58\00:09:27.87
The beautician says do you
know anybody that wants a gun?
00:09:27.91\00:09:32.20
She said nobody has ever
asked that to me in my life.
00:09:32.23\00:09:36.49
In my life and she
said no, that's crazy.
00:09:36.53\00:09:43.00
She is a soccer mom, Chris
was going to be a nun in her
00:09:43.04\00:09:47.10
teens, she was in
school, a convent or whatever.
00:09:47.13\00:09:51.53
It's nun-material, she
was in something and she was
00:09:51.57\00:09:54.69
going to be a nun so she
was like I don't even know
00:09:54.72\00:09:57.80
what you're talking about.
00:09:57.84\00:09:59.03
All of a sudden as she's
getting her nails and hands done
00:09:59.06\00:10:02.67
she says you know how
much is the gun anyway?
00:10:02.71\00:10:08.47
$25, she said $25,000
for a gun? No 25 bucks!
00:10:08.50\00:10:14.19
25 bucks? She said I want
a gun and she buys this gun.
00:10:14.23\00:10:19.32
She said it looked like a
little Barbie gun and she buys
00:10:19.35\00:10:23.71
it, takes it with her to
the car and then she decides I'm
00:10:23.75\00:10:28.08
going to go find him.
00:10:28.11\00:10:29.46
I'm going to go find him,
I'm going to find my son and
00:10:29.49\00:10:33.02
bring him home, she goes
to the drug house with her gun
00:10:33.06\00:10:36.67
and calls this undercover
narcotic drug officer and says,
00:10:36.70\00:10:40.28
I'm on my way to get Lance.
00:10:40.31\00:10:41.82
He says Chris don't I'm
already there, and she gets out
00:10:41.86\00:10:46.72
of the car and walks
up to the drug house.
00:10:46.75\00:10:50.46
She said she opened the
door and it wasn't locked.
00:10:50.49\00:10:53.76
Like she couldn't believe
it, if you're selling narcotics
00:10:53.80\00:10:56.25
wouldn't you lock the
door? But it wasn't locked.
00:10:56.29\00:10:58.80
She opens the door and
the guy who shot Lance up for
00:10:58.83\00:11:01.31
the first time, his
name was Tony was sitting
00:11:01.34\00:11:04.45
there in a chair.
00:11:04.49\00:11:06.29
She pulled the gun up
and said I want my son.
00:11:06.32\00:11:10.78
He said chill out
Mama. She said I want my son.
00:11:10.81\00:11:15.20
And she went up and shoved
the gun in his mouth and said,
00:11:15.23\00:11:19.11
I want my son,
this is a soccer mom.
00:11:19.15\00:11:20.96
This is somebody that has
never, ever even had violent
00:11:20.99\00:11:25.82
rages like that
and she is in a rage.
00:11:25.86\00:11:28.22
She knows that if this guy
says one more thing I will kill
00:11:28.26\00:11:30.98
you and all the sudden Lance
comes out of the back room.
00:11:31.01\00:11:34.84
Mom, what are you doing?
They end up leaving quickly.
00:11:34.87\00:11:38.17
She backs out thinking
that she doesn't back out with
00:11:38.21\00:11:41.47
this gun she is
going to be killed.
00:11:41.51\00:11:43.49
Backs out and gets into
the car and Lance gets the gun
00:11:43.53\00:11:46.17
from her and found that
she never even put the clip in.
00:11:46.21\00:11:48.82
She said what
is a clip? Wow mom!
00:11:48.85\00:11:54.27
She's telling me the story
and I'm thinking how crazy.
00:11:54.30\00:11:58.01
She gets Lance home, he is
not only sick, he's withdrawn
00:11:58.04\00:12:00.80
and she puts him in
treatments and tries to learn as
00:12:00.83\00:12:03.55
much as she can about addiction.
00:12:03.58\00:12:05.58
I beg anybody, any of you
or anybody listening to me,
00:12:05.61\00:12:09.86
if you have a child that
is strung out and you think is
00:12:09.90\00:12:14.11
acting out or using
drugs or getting caught up in
00:12:14.15\00:12:16.74
an addiction, educate yourself.
00:12:16.77\00:12:18.62
Educate yourself, and if
you don't know where to go,
00:12:18.66\00:12:21.03
call us, e-mail us and we
will send you some information.
00:12:21.06\00:12:25.61
There was so much
that she had to learn.
00:12:25.64\00:12:28.21
When Lance gets out of
treatment she said she found out
00:12:28.25\00:12:31.06
that you need to occupy
your time with something right
00:12:31.10\00:12:33.87
now, do you want to do a hobby?
00:12:33.91\00:12:35.50
He said yes. She said
what would you like to do?
00:12:35.54\00:12:39.43
He said I would like to
take glassblowing classes.
00:12:39.46\00:12:43.14
I don't know if anybody
knows anything about meth or
00:12:43.18\00:12:46.82
crack, but you make
your own pipes with glass.
00:12:46.85\00:12:50.18
So he wanted to make his
own meth pipes and his mom
00:12:50.22\00:12:54.22
paid for the glassblowing
classes that he took in order
00:12:54.25\00:12:58.22
to make these pipes.
00:12:58.25\00:12:59.86
She didn't even know
that was what he was making.
00:12:59.90\00:13:03.24
As an addict I thought
that is the stupidest story.
00:13:03.28\00:13:06.08
I said you didn't even
know? She said I had no idea.
00:13:06.12\00:13:09.24
He would throw pipe away
and I would pull it out and say
00:13:09.28\00:13:12.14
would say, Lance this
looks cute, you can fix this up.
00:13:12.17\00:13:15.41
She had no idea, Lance
comes home and he is sick and
00:13:15.45\00:13:18.65
he is having a horrible time.
00:13:18.69\00:13:20.23
She took him to the
doctor and the doctor said,
00:13:20.27\00:13:22.87
you know what? We are
going to have to give this boy
00:13:22.90\00:13:26.56
a new heart, he has
so destroyed his heart.
00:13:26.60\00:13:29.13
He is 17 years old, and he
is so sick that his heart is
00:13:29.16\00:13:33.52
so swollen, so damaged
that there is no possibility of
00:13:33.56\00:13:37.43
fixing that and he ends up
on a heart transplant list.
00:13:37.47\00:13:41.30
He ends up in the
hospital with IVs and this
00:13:41.34\00:13:44.05
kid is taking the IVs out
of his arms and is taking off
00:13:44.08\00:13:48.22
to use and then comes
back to the hospital and
00:13:48.26\00:13:51.40
he is lost in his addiction.
00:13:51.44\00:13:52.96
His mother is begging
them, don't take him off the
00:13:53.00\00:13:55.93
heart transplant
list, don't take him off.
00:13:55.96\00:13:59.34
Please, I beg you in
she is so afraid, afraid.
00:13:59.38\00:14:02.32
For the next couple of
years she is in an out of
00:14:02.36\00:14:05.24
hospitals, in and out of
treatment, trying to keep him
00:14:05.27\00:14:08.80
all the heart transplant
list so that he is a candidate
00:14:08.84\00:14:13.17
for a new heart and he
turns 21 and says mom I have to
00:14:13.21\00:14:17.51
have you take me off this list.
00:14:17.55\00:14:19.30
I cannot stop my addiction,
and I can't accept someone
00:14:19.34\00:14:22.40
else's heart and do the
same thing to someone else's
00:14:22.43\00:14:25.46
heart that I did to
my heart, take me off.
00:14:25.49\00:14:27.90
He died shortly after that.
00:14:27.94\00:14:29.48
He died coming back to Christ,
coming back to his mom and
00:14:29.52\00:14:35.30
begging her forgiveness,
even telling her mom everything
00:14:35.33\00:14:41.08
you said was
right, I am so sorry.
00:14:41.11\00:14:43.72
She said I'm holding this
kid and he was 6'1" and lost
00:14:43.75\00:14:47.86
tons of pounds,
down to 90 pounds.
00:14:47.90\00:14:50.81
Sick and dying and she
said I'm holding him knowing
00:14:50.85\00:14:54.57
that I cannot do a
thing, he is dying.
00:14:54.61\00:14:57.06
Coming back to Christ,
coming back to his family.
00:14:57.09\00:14:59.96
She said when the coroner
came in and zipped up the bag
00:14:59.99\00:15:04.65
they had to put
him in a black bag.
00:15:04.68\00:15:06.35
She did not let him for
two hours, you cannot put
00:15:06.39\00:15:09.79
him in that bag, this is my son.
00:15:09.83\00:15:12.37
He said you know it is a
law, we can't transport bodies
00:15:12.41\00:15:15.42
without doing this.
00:15:15.46\00:15:17.84
So anyhow they put this,
Lance Michael in the bag and
00:15:17.87\00:15:21.58
she said all I heard
was the zipper to start
00:15:21.62\00:15:24.13
to zip around him and
she started screaming.
00:15:24.16\00:15:26.60
My son is afraid of the
dark, you cannot cover his face.
00:15:26.63\00:15:31.37
And she just cried,
you cannot cover his face.
00:15:31.40\00:15:34.71
They finally said, you know
it is against the law for us
00:15:34.74\00:15:39.00
to take him out of
here without being covered.
00:15:39.03\00:15:41.35
She said, then you are not
taking him, and it took them
00:15:41.39\00:15:44.59
hours to finally say to
her okay we will take him out
00:15:44.62\00:15:49.01
not covered and it took
her years to stand up again.
00:15:49.05\00:15:53.73
To stand up again and all
the junk that is in her life
00:15:53.76\00:15:58.41
now, she said I
thought just kill me.
00:15:58.45\00:16:01.87
This boy was someone I
loved and now people talk about
00:16:01.90\00:16:07.44
him as if he is just an addict.
00:16:07.47\00:16:09.20
They want to forget him,
now she's still set the table
00:16:09.23\00:16:13.26
for him, I can't forget him.
00:16:13.30\00:16:15.39
I don't want people to forget
him at meals, or Christmas
00:16:15.42\00:16:18.76
or any of that and her whole
life started to fall apart.
00:16:18.80\00:16:22.07
Her relationship with her
husband definitely, her other
00:16:22.10\00:16:25.04
son at the time had cancer
so she was dealing with that.
00:16:25.08\00:16:28.17
She was dealing with so
many different things she said,
00:16:28.21\00:16:31.27
I won't be able to survive it.
00:16:31.30\00:16:32.83
I will not be able to
survive this and this show
00:16:32.86\00:16:35.67
we are talking about
those kind of things and what
00:16:35.71\00:16:38.95
happens when other
people's choices come in like
00:16:38.99\00:16:42.19
a storm and play
havoc on your entire life.
00:16:42.23\00:16:45.65
You think my world
will ever look the same?
00:16:45.68\00:16:49.03
One of the things that I
know about God is even in those
00:16:49.07\00:16:53.93
situations, God says, if
you have faith I promise you
00:16:53.96\00:16:58.78
that I will come in.
00:16:58.82\00:17:00.48
I'm not going to come in
and say it was all good, or that
00:17:00.52\00:17:03.72
it was okay that happened
to Lance, it's not okay.
00:17:03.75\00:17:07.27
It was not okay but I
will come in and give you
00:17:07.30\00:17:10.79
your life back again.
00:17:10.82\00:17:11.98
You'll stand again and enjoy.
00:17:12.01\00:17:13.39
And we are going to talk
about that when we come back.
00:17:13.42\00:17:15.70
Joy you are going to
come up and share your story.
00:17:15.73\00:17:17.94
I just want to say thank
you for that and I want to tell
00:17:17.97\00:17:20.95
you to stay tuned because
you will be so blessed by this.
00:17:20.98\00:17:24.24
I know right now it sounds
a little sad but I promise
00:17:24.27\00:17:27.75
you that God turns things
around, it's unbelievable.
00:17:27.78\00:17:31.22
So stay tuned!
Celebrating Life In Recovery.
00:17:31.26\00:17:34.45
We want to introduce
you to a beautiful book
00:17:38.58\00:17:40.98
called 'Steps To Christ'.
00:17:41.02\00:17:42.54
Each program in this
series is based on a different
00:17:42.58\00:17:45.21
chapter showing you how
to become a Christian and
00:17:45.25\00:17:47.85
gain victory
over your addictions.
00:17:47.88\00:17:49.93
'Steps To Christ' is our
gift to you free of charge.
00:17:49.97\00:17:52.97
Just call us at:
00:17:53.00\00:17:54.58
Welcome back, I want to
talk about a Bible story that
00:18:19.07\00:18:23.22
I want to refer to Matthew
9:6, a paralytic, a guy that
00:18:23.26\00:18:27.37
was paralyzed and
this guy was just a mess.
00:18:27.41\00:18:31.81
Christ came up to him and
one of the things He said to him
00:18:31.85\00:18:35.10
do you believe that
I can make you well?
00:18:35.14\00:18:38.32
Do you believe
that I can heal you?
00:18:38.35\00:18:40.85
And he said yes, so Jesus
says that He forgives him and
00:18:40.88\00:18:46.58
tells him to stand up and walk.
00:18:46.61\00:18:48.08
So for an addict, I
really believe for Lance Michael
00:18:48.11\00:18:51.19
or myself an addict we
really have to have faith and
00:18:51.23\00:18:54.64
accept the fact that
God can heal us, forgive us,
00:18:54.67\00:18:58.61
and our sins are removed
the Bible says as far as way
00:18:58.64\00:19:02.54
as the east to the west.
00:19:02.58\00:19:04.05
God doesn't even
look at our sins anymore,
00:19:04.09\00:19:06.74
we are created new as it
says in 2 Corinthians 5:17.
00:19:06.78\00:19:10.11
I'm new in Christ, I have
a new mind and a new heart.
00:19:10.14\00:19:14.24
In the story of the demoniac
and in his craziness filled
00:19:14.28\00:19:17.57
with a thousand demons God
restores him to his right mind.
00:19:17.60\00:19:21.21
All that takes faith and I
have to accept those gifts.
00:19:21.24\00:19:26.12
Right? But with Chris,
Lance Michael's mother, Lance
00:19:26.15\00:19:29.91
got it, he accepted
that and came back to Christ.
00:19:29.94\00:19:33.66
As he died she
really had to stand up.
00:19:33.69\00:19:36.82
Lance before he died said,
mom, tell people what killed
00:19:36.86\00:19:39.98
me, tell children and
their parents what killed me.
00:19:40.01\00:19:43.10
And please don't let
them get lost in drugs,
00:19:43.13\00:19:46.55
get lost in all that.
00:19:46.58\00:19:47.77
So Chris when she finally
stood on her feet, when God
00:19:47.80\00:19:50.45
finally started to stand
her on her feet she went out
00:19:50.48\00:19:53.09
and spoke to kids
all over the world.
00:19:53.12\00:19:56.10
Internationally she has
spoke families about drugs and
00:19:56.13\00:19:59.66
the dangers of not being
educated in those things, there
00:19:59.70\00:20:03.11
there has been healing that
is unbelievable, but I found
00:20:03.15\00:20:06.41
out Joy, I want to say first
of all thank you for joining
00:20:06.44\00:20:09.67
me and I love you. - thank you!
00:20:09.70\00:20:12.58
I found out while
watching her is that her healing
00:20:12.61\00:20:17.18
started when she was able
to with the same faith, same
00:20:17.21\00:20:21.74
acceptance realize
that God had to restore her.
00:20:21.78\00:20:26.47
So I want to first of
all for you tell us about
00:20:26.50\00:20:31.13
who you are and where you
came from and what started
00:20:31.16\00:20:36.52
this journey for you?
00:20:36.56\00:20:38.82
Well I grew up in
the Kansas City area.
00:20:38.85\00:20:41.69
I grew up in a home that
was not really a church going
00:20:41.72\00:20:44.93
home at all so I didn't
know anything about God.
00:20:44.97\00:20:48.66
When I got married and
started having kids and I was
00:20:48.69\00:20:52.35
really focused on my family.
00:20:52.38\00:20:54.36
My husband and I had five
children ranging in age from
00:20:54.40\00:20:57.40
17 months to 17 years.
00:20:57.44\00:21:00.07
We left the Kansas City
area and went to the Lake of
00:21:00.10\00:21:03.38
the Ozarks region in Missouri.
00:21:03.42\00:21:05.07
We bought a little
two-bedroom cabin on an acre of
00:21:05.10\00:21:07.73
ground on the Lake
and settled ourselves in.
00:21:07.76\00:21:10.18
We were so focused in
our own lives that we weren't
00:21:10.21\00:21:13.61
really focused on God
at all until tragedy struck
00:21:13.65\00:21:17.02
for our own family.
00:21:17.05\00:21:18.68
Our oldest daughter was
stricken with ovarian cancer.
00:21:18.72\00:21:21.93
She was 17. -
17, that is so young.
00:21:21.96\00:21:25.22
Yes and they did a complete
hysterectomy and then found
00:21:25.26\00:21:29.07
a second tumor against her
spine and a third in her neck.
00:21:29.11\00:21:32.89
They began chemotherapy
to try to kill the cancer
00:21:32.92\00:21:35.50
before it killed her
but they didn't give us any
00:21:35.54\00:21:38.08
hope for her survival.
00:21:38.12\00:21:39.81
You know Joy, I don't
even know how I would handle
00:21:39.85\00:21:43.90
something like that,
because I have one child and
00:21:43.93\00:21:47.91
I think I am so blessed
that nothing has happened to her
00:21:47.95\00:21:51.11
and I think how do you handle
when you were told that she
00:21:51.14\00:21:54.27
had cancer,
emotionally did you go numb?
00:21:54.30\00:21:58.26
What were you supposed to do?
00:21:58.29\00:21:59.98
Pretty much shocked at first,
we didn't want to accept it
00:22:00.02\00:22:03.83
and had several weeks to
finally come to grips and go
00:22:03.86\00:22:07.17
to the hospital every other
day and spend time with her.
00:22:07.20\00:22:10.13
The hospital was 100 miles
away so we couldn't get there
00:22:10.16\00:22:14.85
everyday, but to see the
progress as she diminish before
00:22:14.89\00:22:18.91
our eyes and knew that the
life was draining out of her
00:22:18.95\00:22:22.94
and we were
helpless to stop the flow.
00:22:22.98\00:22:24.84
So day by day you come to
accept the fact that you are
00:22:24.87\00:22:29.39
probably going to
lose one of your children.
00:22:29.43\00:22:31.25
So we began to cling to
the four healthy ones to try
00:22:31.28\00:22:34.54
and gain the strength that
we needed to do with the fact
00:22:34.58\00:22:37.80
that we were
going to lose Stephanie.
00:22:37.84\00:22:40.17
- I can't imagine,
I just can't imagine.
00:22:40.21\00:22:42.47
Then I know that during
that time is when your whole
00:22:42.50\00:22:47.02
life was rocked even
more so than that. - right!
00:22:47.05\00:22:51.51
In one night we left our
four healthy children to go
00:22:51.54\00:22:55.96
out for the evening.
00:22:56.00\00:22:57.30
We went to play bingo at
the American Legion and we left
00:22:57.34\00:23:00.78
four healthy
children home alone.
00:23:00.82\00:23:02.68
Steve was 14, Greg was 12,
Tonya was 3 and Stacy was 17
00:23:02.71\00:23:07.90
months and while we were
gone a 14-year-old neighbor boy
00:23:07.93\00:23:13.08
came in and shot and
killed all four of them.
00:23:13.12\00:23:15.66
I can't, how, how
did you come home?
00:23:15.70\00:23:23.20
You must've came home to chaos?
00:23:23.23\00:23:26.61
We came home to police cars
and ambulances, what we didn't
00:23:26.64\00:23:29.96
know was that Stephanie
had called a friend of hers,
00:23:30.00\00:23:32.55
the one in the hospital and
said I can come home for the
00:23:32.58\00:23:35.59
weekend, we didn't have a
telephone so she had asked her
00:23:35.62\00:23:38.30
friend to please go to her
house and tell dad I can come
00:23:38.34\00:23:40.99
home for the weekend,
come early in the morning.
00:23:41.02\00:23:44.03
This Thursday night,
Debbie pulled into the driveway.
00:23:44.07\00:23:47.58
She is the one that discovered
the kids, so by the time
00:23:47.62\00:23:50.99
we got home, police cars
and ambulances were everywhere
00:23:51.03\00:23:54.37
and they would not let us in.
00:23:54.40\00:23:56.49
We were actually taken to
the police station that night
00:23:56.53\00:23:59.56
and endured six hours -
they wouldn't let you in the
00:23:59.60\00:24:02.60
household or let you come near?
00:24:02.63\00:24:03.71
I was never in my house
ever again, I was never allowed
00:24:03.74\00:24:06.77
in again, but we were put
in a patrol car and taken to
00:24:06.80\00:24:09.79
the police station
and endured seven hours of
00:24:09.83\00:24:12.81
interrogations, strip
searches because we were the
00:24:12.85\00:24:16.98
suspects in the murders.
00:24:17.01\00:24:19.09
So you are trying to adjust
in your head what happened.
00:24:19.12\00:24:22.95
Right! - I need to
go see my children and
00:24:22.98\00:24:25.86
they're asking you questions.
00:24:25.90\00:24:27.56
I needed to see the
kids to face the reality.
00:24:27.60\00:24:29.57
I am a person that needs to
get things done, George just
00:24:29.61\00:24:33.40
went into shock immediately,
basically shut down.
00:24:33.44\00:24:37.06
I needed to get things
done, I needed to go into the
00:24:37.09\00:24:40.68
house, I needed to
make sure my kids were okay.
00:24:40.72\00:24:42.70
I needed to see the
bodies to accept the reality and
00:24:42.74\00:24:45.66
I was not given that option.
00:24:45.70\00:24:47.59
Instead I was pulled away
and everything I needed for
00:24:47.63\00:24:51.01
my healing to accept
and begin to heal right away
00:24:51.05\00:24:54.40
was taken away from me.
00:24:54.44\00:24:56.15
I can even imagine how I
would take my next breath.
00:24:57.71\00:25:01.75
How do you take your next
breath? How do you, for one,
00:25:01.79\00:25:05.79
convince
somebody I didn't do it?
00:25:05.83\00:25:07.67
What, are you crazy?
00:25:07.71\00:25:09.38
While my husband was a
police officer so he knew what
00:25:09.41\00:25:12.54
was going on, I
was quite defiant.
00:25:12.58\00:25:15.69
I was a rebellious teen when
I was a kid so that came out.
00:25:15.72\00:25:19.21
I was quite defiant during
the interrogations, I knew
00:25:19.25\00:25:22.16
I hadn't done it and resented
that I couldn't get back to
00:25:22.19\00:25:24.90
the House and be with the
kids when they brought them out.
00:25:24.94\00:25:28.27
So it was the anger that kept
me strong, I determined that
00:25:28.31\00:25:31.74
I would stay angry so that
my strength would be strong
00:25:31.77\00:25:35.17
enough to keep me on my feet.
00:25:35.20\00:25:37.00
So it was that
anger that kept me strong
00:25:37.03\00:25:41.07
during that first day.
00:25:41.11\00:25:43.11
I am never at a loss for
words and I feel absolutely
00:25:43.15\00:25:48.95
at a loss for words, I
don't even know, I can't imagine
00:25:48.98\00:25:54.71
what your next steps are I can't
imagine even what you said to
00:25:54.74\00:25:58.22
your husband when he said
to you, how does anybody step
00:25:58.26\00:26:03.51
out and say okay
now what happened?
00:26:03.54\00:26:05.88
You had to find out what
happened, how did they find
00:26:05.92\00:26:09.39
out that it was this kid?
00:26:09.42\00:26:11.07
They had gone to the
junior high school to interview
00:26:11.10\00:26:15.04
students that went to
school our boys and in doing so
00:26:15.07\00:26:18.27
there were two 8th-grade
boys came forward and said
00:26:18.31\00:26:21.47
we know who did it?
00:26:21.51\00:26:22.48
He has been bragging for
two weeks about how he plans
00:26:22.49\00:26:24.99
to kill the Swift family
and was quoted this morning
00:26:25.03\00:26:27.72
at school saying I can't
wait to open fire on them.
00:26:27.75\00:26:31.52
They gave his name Billy
Dyer, so the police went to
00:26:31.56\00:26:35.29
his house to
take him into custody.
00:26:35.33\00:26:37.20
He had also mentioned that
there was an older guy named
00:26:37.23\00:26:40.41
Ray that was going to help him.
00:26:40.45\00:26:42.04
When the police went to
Billy's house to take him into
00:26:42.08\00:26:45.18
custody, a 20-year-old name
Ray Richardson Jr. was there,
00:26:45.22\00:26:48.29
so they took him in
for questioning as well.
00:26:48.33\00:26:50.92
So did they find out why
was it that he had this vendetta
00:26:50.95\00:26:53.91
why was it that he had
focused on your family?
00:26:53.94\00:26:56.62
Well it would be a
long, long time before
00:26:56.66\00:26:59.05
we found that out.
00:26:59.08\00:27:00.40
We found out it was
Billy Dyer, it was hard for me.
00:27:00.44\00:27:02.91
- because it was your neighbor.
00:27:02.95\00:27:04.02
He was my neighbor and I
knew he was troubled teen and
00:27:04.06\00:27:06.63
I vowed that I would be
the person that would be there
00:27:06.66\00:27:09.20
for him, I would listen to him.
00:27:09.23\00:27:10.25
He spent the night at
our house, we took him to the
00:27:10.29\00:27:13.72
movies with the boys just
the night before he came to
00:27:13.76\00:27:16.85
kill the kids but since
George and I was not going out
00:27:16.88\00:27:19.94
he asked if the boys
could go to the movies and
00:27:19.97\00:27:22.23
I took three boys to the
movies and then he came in to
00:27:22.26\00:27:25.08
kill the kids the next day.
00:27:25.11\00:27:26.47
He had come at least four
times that we know of to kill
00:27:26.51\00:27:30.07
the kids but if George and
I were home he would call it
00:27:30.10\00:27:33.63
off until another time.
00:27:33.67\00:27:35.67
But we found out later he
had a juvenile record in two
00:27:35.71\00:27:38.80
states, he had tried to
kill 2 thirteen-year-old boys
00:27:38.83\00:27:41.89
the year before
with a poisoned blowgun.
00:27:41.92\00:27:44.03
While he was in jail
awaiting trial charged with four
00:27:44.06\00:27:46.58
counts of capital murder
in the death of our children
00:27:46.62\00:27:50.35
he tried to electrocute a
guard and poison an inmate.
00:27:50.38\00:27:54.45
So we found out many
years later, when he was being
00:27:54.48\00:27:57.99
interviewed by a reporter,
he said I once saw George
00:27:58.03\00:28:01.51
wake up Greg just
tell him that he loved him.
00:28:01.54\00:28:04.86
I was jealous because
the family materially didn't
00:28:04.90\00:28:07.85
have anything,
but they had love.
00:28:07.88\00:28:10.82
And my family didn't
have that and I wanted to take
00:28:10.86\00:28:12.73
it away from them.
00:28:12.76\00:28:14.32
So that is why he
wanted to kill them.
00:28:14.35\00:28:15.98
His original plan was to
kill the kids, stay in the
00:28:16.02\00:28:19.30
house, wait and ambush
George and I and kill us.
00:28:19.34\00:28:22.87
Burn the house down and
go on a killing spree with a
00:28:22.90\00:28:26.40
whole bunch of
people until he got caught.
00:28:26.43\00:28:28.40
And possibly kill himself?
00:28:28.44\00:28:30.95
I don't think he ever
talked about killing himself.
00:28:30.98\00:28:33.85
That wasn't there for him.
00:28:33.88\00:28:36.32
With finding those kind of
things out, with having not
00:28:36.36\00:28:42.09
only the shock of having
this horrible thing happened to
00:28:42.13\00:28:46.14
your family but somebody
you know, somebody that was in
00:28:46.17\00:28:50.15
your home, and in your
life, that has got to be,
00:28:50.18\00:28:54.17
were you torn emotionally
in ever single direction?
00:28:54.20\00:28:57.35
It was a betrayal, it was
an absolute betrayal because
00:28:57.39\00:29:00.49
while all the other neighbors
didn't trust Billy, even
00:29:00.52\00:29:03.56
George wanted to keep him
away, I saw a kid that needed
00:29:03.59\00:29:06.95
somebody to care and if I
gave him something to live up
00:29:06.99\00:29:10.31
to he would live up to it.
00:29:10.35\00:29:12.21
I thought that my family
would be a positive influence
00:29:12.25\00:29:14.66
on Billy and instead
he repaid my kindness.
00:29:14.70\00:29:17.84
As soon as I found out it
was Billy that killed the kids
00:29:17.87\00:29:21.89
instead of being angry I
felt betrayal because I had
00:29:21.93\00:29:25.58
really cared about him. -
and still did. - still did.
00:29:25.61\00:29:29.23
And I still do.
00:29:29.26\00:29:30.82
To me I can still see that
in your eyes is that you know
00:29:30.85\00:29:33.21
I wanted you to
succeed. - yeah I truly did.
00:29:33.24\00:29:36.50
I welcomed him into my
home and into my heart.
00:29:36.53\00:29:39.72
How did you get to a
point where you could actually,
00:29:39.76\00:29:43.12
remember I talked about Chris
where she was in the garage
00:29:43.16\00:29:46.49
saying I'm going to kill
myself, I cannot do this.
00:29:46.53\00:29:49.30
Did you or feel that way,
that I cannot survive this?
00:29:49.33\00:29:52.61
Within 24 hours of losing
the kids I was in a motel room
00:29:52.65\00:29:55.87
and finally broke down and
realized that my strength and
00:29:55.90\00:29:59.09
my anger was not
enough, I could not do this.
00:29:59.12\00:30:02.51
So for the first time in
my life I called out to God.
00:30:02.54\00:30:06.36
I told Him I was not
strong enough to handle this.
00:30:06.40\00:30:10.16
I could not do this. -
this is not something I can do.
00:30:10.19\00:30:13.91
No and He promised
to give me His strength.
00:30:13.95\00:30:16.38
It was in that room that a
voice came to me and He said
00:30:16.42\00:30:20.05
you have not lost them, you
are only separated from them
00:30:20.08\00:30:23.68
for a little while.
00:30:23.71\00:30:25.20
The answers you seek I
will show you, it has all been
00:30:25.24\00:30:27.60
taking care of, it
has all been written down.
00:30:27.64\00:30:30.73
So I knew my answers were
in the Bible, but then I had
00:30:30.77\00:30:34.36
to from that point on start
searching it to try to find
00:30:34.39\00:30:37.95
the answers that
would answer it has all
00:30:37.98\00:30:42.50
been taken care of.
00:30:42.53\00:30:43.70
Even with that voice and
hearing God, I believe God moves
00:30:43.74\00:30:48.03
in during those times
when we beg Him that I can't do
00:30:48.06\00:30:52.04
this and hearing Him
say you will see them again,
00:30:52.07\00:30:56.02
this is not over
and hearing that.
00:30:56.05\00:30:58.61
But you didn't have a
Bible, you didn't have
00:30:58.64\00:31:01.43
a relationship. -
no foundation at all!
00:31:01.46\00:31:03.26
I really didn't, the only
foundation I had was that God
00:31:03.30\00:31:06.64
was suppose to be all loving and
merciful and as such He could
00:31:06.67\00:31:10.01
not have possibly want
my kids to die this way.
00:31:10.04\00:31:12.56
So I never blamed Him but
I couldn't accept the reality
00:31:12.60\00:31:17.08
and my cleric personality
said no this cannot be the end.
00:31:17.12\00:31:21.57
I cannot accept this as
the final into this thing.
00:31:21.60\00:31:26.47
I've got to have my kids back.
00:31:29.30\00:31:30.80
Thus began the
search to find out how
00:31:30.84\00:31:34.53
I could get my kids back.
00:31:34.57\00:31:36.21
Tell us a little bit about
the search, because that is
00:31:36.24\00:31:40.18
amazing to me, did you end
up finding somebody to teach
00:31:40.22\00:31:44.12
you? Did you just go out
and grab the Word of God?
00:31:44.16\00:31:46.83
I ask questions of
everybody I could think of.
00:31:46.86\00:31:49.47
I tried to find them in
the Bible, but like every other
00:31:49.50\00:31:52.57
book I have read I started
on page 1 and I wasn't finding
00:31:52.60\00:31:56.63
it, asked ministers, pastors,
priests, friends, everybody
00:31:56.66\00:32:00.16
had a different answer and
it was not coming together.
00:32:00.20\00:32:04.11
It was actually my little
sister who was also searching
00:32:04.14\00:32:07.89
for the same answers and
she started Bible study through
00:32:07.93\00:32:11.44
Voice of Prophecy and she
found the answers that I had
00:32:11.47\00:32:14.95
been looking for.
00:32:14.98\00:32:16.36
She came in shared
those answers with me and
00:32:16.39\00:32:18.18
I started those same Bible
studies guides and the answers
00:32:18.22\00:32:21.57
were there. It opened up
the Bible to were it showed me
00:32:21.61\00:32:24.93
where the answers were in
the Scriptures and it all came
00:32:24.97\00:32:28.26
together and I
had a full picture.
00:32:28.29\00:32:30.21
So I'm going to ask you to
share some of those because
00:32:30.25\00:32:33.79
one of those things that
Chris had to find, the same as
00:32:33.82\00:32:37.33
you, where is my son?
What is going to happen?
00:32:37.36\00:32:41.54
Tell us about how you found
that, what that did for you?
00:32:41.58\00:32:44.92
So many people
have different answers.
00:32:44.95\00:32:48.21
My mom was into reincarnation
and the priest tells me
00:32:48.25\00:32:51.30
that Tonya and Stacy are
in limbo because I didn't have
00:32:51.33\00:32:54.35
them baptized and I
didn't know who in the world
00:32:54.39\00:32:57.00
took care of them there.
00:32:57.03\00:32:58.46
Greg, Steven and Stephen's
death Stephanie died of cancer
00:32:58.50\00:33:01.10
20 days after the
murders of the other four
00:33:01.13\00:33:03.57
so we lost all five.
00:33:03.60\00:33:06.47
So they are telling me,
Steven, Stephen and Greg are in
00:33:06.51\00:33:09.53
heaven but Tonya and Stacy
are in limbo and I did know
00:33:09.56\00:33:12.47
who took care of them there
and I was really counting on
00:33:12.51\00:33:15.17
the three older ones to
take care of the little ones
00:33:15.21\00:33:17.80
because I didn't know God well
enough to know to trust that
00:33:17.83\00:33:21.09
He could take
care of them for me.
00:33:21.12\00:33:22.48
So is the answers began to
come together and I realized
00:33:24.09\00:33:27.67
the living know they
shall die but the dead know not
00:33:27.70\00:33:31.28
anything, they were
simply a sleep in the grave and
00:33:31.31\00:33:34.86
that Jesus was
coming back to take us home.
00:33:34.89\00:33:37.66
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
are the most precious verses
00:33:37.70\00:33:42.80
in the world.
00:33:42.83\00:33:44.19
When they were pointed out
to me I have clung to those
00:33:44.22\00:33:47.28
as my hope because it says,
"for the Lord Himself shall
00:33:47.32\00:33:50.51
"descend from heaven with
a shout, with the voice of an
00:33:50.55\00:33:53.95
"arch Angel and the trumpet
of God, and the dead in Christ
00:33:53.98\00:33:57.34
"shall rise first, then
we which are alive and remain
00:33:57.38\00:34:00.71
"shall be caught up together
with them in the clouds to
00:34:00.75\00:34:04.17
"meet the Lord in the air
and so shall we ever be with the
00:34:04.21\00:34:08.03
"Lord. Wherefore comfort
one another with these words. "
00:34:08.06\00:34:11.85
That became my comfort
and my hope, that is how
00:34:11.88\00:34:16.14
He had taken care of it,
00:34:16.18\00:34:17.15
He was coming back in the
clouds and He had promised me
00:34:17.18\00:34:20.02
we would be together again
and I finally understood what
00:34:20.06\00:34:22.87
that meant and how it
was going to take place.
00:34:22.90\00:34:25.34
- You will survive
with that. - I will make it.
00:34:25.37\00:34:27.74
Of course if someone had
told me 30 years ago I would
00:34:27.77\00:34:30.31
still be waiting, I think I
probably would have just died.
00:34:30.34\00:34:33.71
But through this journey,
and learning to trust in God
00:34:33.74\00:34:37.30
an admittedly I first
came to God with an alterative
00:34:37.33\00:34:40.85
motive, I want the kids back.
00:34:40.89\00:34:42.73
I love my kids, I don't
really know you God, I love my
00:34:42.76\00:34:47.21
kids and I need to be with
my kids and I will jump through
00:34:47.25\00:34:49.76
whatever hoop it will takes.
00:34:49.80\00:34:51.65
As I began my journey
I fell in love with God.
00:34:51.69\00:34:55.26
I fell in love with my
Savior and now I want to go and
00:34:55.29\00:34:58.72
be a part of that kingdom
and I want to be a victory in
00:34:58.76\00:35:02.15
His kingdom because of
Him, my relationship with Him.
00:35:02.19\00:35:05.51
And the added blessing is the
reuniting with your children.
00:35:05.55\00:35:09.48
Absolutely, absolutely I
can't wait to introduce you to
00:35:09.52\00:35:13.32
them. - you know, when
you said that I wanted to jump
00:35:13.36\00:35:17.13
up and kiss you on the face.
00:35:17.16\00:35:18.86
You ended up, and for
some people know this and some
00:35:18.90\00:35:23.31
people don't, but you
ended up writing a book in your
00:35:23.35\00:35:27.73
own healing, They
Are All Dead Aren't They?
00:35:27.76\00:35:29.64
As I came off the streets,
a drug addict, illiterate,
00:35:29.68\00:35:35.77
trying to figure out
how I was going to survive.
00:35:35.81\00:35:38.05
I got a hold of that book,
somebody had given it to me.
00:35:38.08\00:35:41.33
I remember thinking I'm
not going to survive my own
00:35:41.36\00:35:44.85
journey and I watched with
God did in your life and it
00:35:44.89\00:35:48.34
gave me hope, it stood me up.
00:35:48.38\00:35:50.28
I thought if Joy could do
this, if she could do that
00:35:50.32\00:35:53.78
with all this I am going
to hold on to that same God
00:35:53.81\00:35:57.24
who stands me up. Oh
He gets all the credit.
00:35:57.27\00:35:59.50
Oh man, Oh man, and I
know that you eventually even
00:35:59.53\00:36:06.47
reached out to Billy.
00:36:06.51\00:36:09.47
It took a long time, as I
began to study the Scriptures
00:36:09.51\00:36:13.67
and get this foundation and
this hope and cleaning to the
00:36:13.71\00:36:17.84
promises that God
has for us this issue of
00:36:17.87\00:36:20.81
forgiveness came up.
00:36:20.85\00:36:22.43
He said when you stand
praying if you have anything
00:36:22.47\00:36:25.40
against anybody, forgive them.
00:36:25.43\00:36:27.90
For if you do not forgive
them, your Father in heaven
00:36:27.94\00:36:30.33
can't forgive you.
00:36:30.37\00:36:31.93
You know when you said,
even saying that I know for
00:36:31.97\00:36:34.14
a lot of people, even
kids that have been molested
00:36:34.17\00:36:36.31
say how do I forgive?
00:36:36.34\00:36:37.53
People who have had
some, it was hard for me when
00:36:37.56\00:36:42.32
I first heard your story
it was hard for me to imagine
00:36:42.35\00:36:45.97
how I was going to forgive
him, and it wasn't my tragedy.
00:36:46.01\00:36:50.13
So when some body is hit,
slammed with something when
00:36:50.17\00:36:54.05
you first hear that is
there any part of you that
00:36:54.08\00:36:57.93
says it is even possible?
00:36:57.96\00:36:59.59
I don't think that human
level it is possible, in fact
00:36:59.63\00:37:02.86
if we try to forgive on
the human level than we look at
00:37:02.90\00:37:06.10
the person has basically
a namby-pamby person that
00:37:06.13\00:37:09.50
obviously doesn't have
any feelings, that is not me.
00:37:09.54\00:37:12.70
I'm this angry go-getter
choleric kind of person
00:37:12.73\00:37:15.86
that has to solve problems.
00:37:15.89\00:37:17.47
- you took my children.
- right, you betrayed me
00:37:17.50\00:37:20.13
and I never did
anything to hurt you.
00:37:20.17\00:37:21.85
You had no motive
whatsoever and I flat could not
00:37:21.88\00:37:25.21
in fact I dreamed of getting
into the cell and I did not
00:37:25.25\00:37:28.27
want a gun, I wanted a
chain to beat him to death.
00:37:28.30\00:37:32.30
That was my justice and so
as I began to deal with it and
00:37:32.33\00:37:36.40
I began to grow spiritually
it was actually finding out
00:37:36.44\00:37:40.37
what prison ministries was
doing and the fact that there
00:37:40.41\00:37:44.31
were actually inmates
had truly been transformed,
00:37:44.35\00:37:48.11
truly converted to Christ
and they really were sorry
00:37:48.15\00:37:51.88
for what they had done.
00:37:51.91\00:37:53.50
That made me start
thinking is Billy sorry?
00:37:53.54\00:37:57.55
Is Billy sorry for what he did?
00:37:57.58\00:37:59.35
Even if he is he can't
change what happened, he cannot
00:37:59.39\00:38:03.21
bring the kids back and so
even life in prison is actually
00:38:03.25\00:38:07.27
fugal because it isn't
going to atone for what he did.
00:38:07.30\00:38:10.85
So it got back down to that
hopeless, what point is that
00:38:10.89\00:38:14.40
whether he is sorry you're not?
00:38:14.44\00:38:15.85
But this forgiveness issue
kept getting thrown back into
00:38:15.88\00:38:18.41
my path, God does that
because He's building our
00:38:18.45\00:38:21.42
characters, He's
prepared a place for us and the
00:38:21.45\00:38:24.39
Holy Spirit is
preparing us for the place.
00:38:24.43\00:38:26.37
He wants free of
all that. - He does.
00:38:26.40\00:38:28.49
While I looked at it as some
thing I had to do and I didn't
00:38:28.53\00:38:33.73
want to do, when I began
to see the full big picture,
00:38:33.77\00:38:37.28
I realize this forgiveness
was actually a gift for me.
00:38:37.32\00:38:41.21
I realize that as a parent,
as much as I love each of
00:38:41.24\00:38:44.57
my kids there isn't anything
that my kids could do that
00:38:44.60\00:38:47.90
would ever make
me stop loving them.
00:38:47.93\00:38:49.96
I may hate what they do
but I will always love my kids.
00:38:49.99\00:38:53.37
When I realize that if I
am a human state can feel that
00:38:53.41\00:38:56.75
way, how much more does
God feel about His kids?
00:38:56.78\00:38:59.84
- exactly every one of them.
00:38:59.88\00:39:01.38
God's kids pull that
trigger that night and He hated
00:39:01.41\00:39:04.46
what they did, but
He didn't hate them.
00:39:04.50\00:39:07.24
Christ died on the cross
for them too and it was all
00:39:07.28\00:39:11.44
taken care of for them too.
00:39:11.47\00:39:14.00
So that is what made it
turnaround, if they are His kids
00:39:14.04\00:39:18.10
and I am His daughter,
then we are brothers and sisters
00:39:18.14\00:39:21.72
in Christ and there is no
room for sibling rivalry in
00:39:21.76\00:39:25.83
God's world, so I had to
love my brother in Christ
00:39:25.86\00:39:29.90
as much as God loves me.
00:39:29.93\00:39:31.93
So finally after 11
years I went to the prison.
00:39:31.97\00:39:35.65
- did you say even God
You have to pour that into me?
00:39:35.68\00:39:38.95
Oh I did, I finally
dropped to my knees and said You
00:39:38.99\00:39:42.22
will have to give me
a perspective that I can
00:39:42.25\00:39:44.52
understand
because I can't do this.
00:39:44.55\00:39:46.90
The lessons just kept getting
thrown in my path to where
00:39:46.94\00:39:50.72
I could no longer dodge it,
I had to confront the issue.
00:39:50.75\00:39:54.50
It became a part of who you are.
00:39:54.53\00:39:55.79
Not what you did
but it was who you are.
00:39:55.83\00:39:58.00
What happen when you
came down to see him?
00:39:58.04\00:40:00.14
Basically I told him that
I hated what he did, I would
00:40:00.18\00:40:05.28
always hate what he
did, but I didn't hate him.
00:40:05.31\00:40:07.96
That God loved him and
wanted him in the kingdom and if
00:40:08.00\00:40:10.93
God wanted him in
the kingdom so did I.
00:40:10.96\00:40:12.91
I would wept,
how did he respond?
00:40:12.95\00:40:15.78
I think it really
confused him more than anything.
00:40:15.81\00:40:18.89
He really didn't know what
to say, and I left him a copy
00:40:18.92\00:40:21.72
of my book, They Are
All Dead Aren't They?
00:40:21.76\00:40:23.31
I wanted him to know how
serious this was and what the
00:40:23.34\00:40:27.16
impact was of this crime.
00:40:27.19\00:40:29.33
That this choice to
forgive him had not been a light
00:40:29.36\00:40:33.97
and easy thing to do at all.
00:40:34.01\00:40:35.72
It had taken me 11
years to get here and in fact
00:40:35.75\00:40:38.36
I wouldn't even
have talked about it for
00:40:38.40\00:40:40.00
a full year afterwards.
00:40:40.03\00:40:41.24
I did want people to
think I was as incredible person
00:40:41.27\00:40:44.36
because I was so able
to go and forgive him.
00:40:44.40\00:40:47.29
Even putting myself in his
place, being able to say for
00:40:49.65\00:40:54.47
you to go in and for him
to look at you in the face,
00:40:54.50\00:40:59.28
I can't even
imagine any of that.
00:40:59.32\00:41:00.86
I can't even imagine when
you first walk in and saw him,
00:41:00.89\00:41:04.33
was there any thing, did
God change you by that time
00:41:04.37\00:41:07.77
that you literally
could look at him and love?
00:41:07.81\00:41:10.36
I definitely could, more than
anything and I even told him
00:41:10.39\00:41:14.21
this that I knew I was going
to be with my children again
00:41:14.25\00:41:18.03
someday, I had
that absolute assurance.
00:41:18.07\00:41:20.49
But more than anything in
the world when Jesus comes in
00:41:20.52\00:41:23.44
the clouds, I want to look
over and see him and Ray coming
00:41:23.48\00:41:26.36
to because I will know
that nobody was lost in this
00:41:26.39\00:41:30.33
tragedy, that
every one of us was one.
00:41:30.36\00:41:33.32
Satan didn't win here! -
exactly, he is the only one
00:41:33.35\00:41:35.98
we want to lose
in this whole battle.
00:41:36.02\00:41:38.21
You know you guys have
been listening to this story,
00:41:39.93\00:41:42.57
and you've heard what
Joy had to say, and I had
00:41:42.61\00:41:46.62
to say about
faith and acceptance.
00:41:46.66\00:41:48.61
Accepting the fact that
God, I have a process that God
00:41:48.65\00:41:52.03
is going to restore me
after I'd been hit with this.
00:41:52.07\00:41:55.41
Does anyone want
to ask her anything?
00:41:55.45\00:41:57.19
Marcia do you have a question?
00:41:57.23\00:41:58.82
Well yes joy, if you have
forgiven him do you wish him
00:41:58.85\00:42:02.85
to remain in prison?
00:42:02.89\00:42:04.13
That is something I have
struggled with for a long time
00:42:04.17\00:42:07.07
because before I forgave
him I knew beyond a shadow of a
00:42:07.11\00:42:09.98
doubt I wanted
him to stay in prison.
00:42:10.01\00:42:11.54
I wanted him to serve the
consequences of his time and
00:42:11.57\00:42:14.77
my heart was still
very, very confused.
00:42:14.80\00:42:17.31
I didn't know how
to feel about Billy.
00:42:17.35\00:42:19.79
After I really studied out
this whole issue of forgiveness,
00:42:19.82\00:42:23.12
and after I went to forgive him,
00:42:23.16\00:42:25.31
he wrote a letter and
said that he was sorry for what
00:42:25.35\00:42:29.09
he had done and he offered
00:42:29.13\00:42:30.26
to close his profile
indefinitely if that would help
00:42:30.29\00:42:33.18
George and I to heal.
00:42:33.22\00:42:34.79
I wrote back to him and
told him I doubt it that I would
00:42:34.83\00:42:38.61
ever be ready for his release
and if he was truly sorry
00:42:38.64\00:42:42.39
for what he did
he would not seek
00:42:42.43\00:42:44.87
an early release
from prison walls.
00:42:44.90\00:42:47.27
Rather he would seek the
one would someday come to
00:42:47.31\00:42:50.59
release us all, I wait
my own prison for that day.
00:42:50.63\00:42:53.57
Well at the time I
didn't realize that it could be
00:42:53.61\00:42:56.00
released for my own
prison and quit being a victim
00:42:56.03\00:42:58.39
and start being
a victor instead.
00:42:58.42\00:43:00.09
But that was the answer
at the time, but the one
00:43:00.12\00:43:03.05
thing that I've come to
realize is that I do fight his
00:43:03.08\00:43:05.93
release, but parole
board doesn't want him out.
00:43:05.97\00:43:08.77
They still consider him
to be a threat to society and
00:43:08.80\00:43:12.28
they do believe because
he's been in prison since
00:43:12.32\00:43:15.73
he was 15 years old, it is
the only life that he knows.
00:43:15.76\00:43:19.12
There is a concern that he
has been institutionalized,
00:43:19.15\00:43:22.48
he admits it himself,
he is afraid to get out and
00:43:22.51\00:43:24.80
he doesn't know how to
function in the outside world.
00:43:24.84\00:43:27.09
He could very well
commit another crime
00:43:27.12\00:43:29.15
just to get back in.
00:43:29.19\00:43:30.66
But from a scriptural
standpoint, if I forgive him
00:43:30.70\00:43:34.56
should I fling the
doors open and say no
00:43:34.60\00:43:36.93
you have done your time.
00:43:36.97\00:43:38.17
And what I came to realize
was that even though we seek
00:43:38.20\00:43:42.10
forgiveness and we gain
forgiveness through Christ,
00:43:42.13\00:43:45.95
it does not relieve us of
the consequences of our actions
00:43:45.99\00:43:49.39
here on this earth.
00:43:49.43\00:43:51.08
As Christ was hanging on
the cross there were two thieves
00:43:51.12\00:43:54.34
were one either side of Him.
00:43:54.37\00:43:55.35
One sought forgiveness and
Christ promised him the kingdom.
00:43:55.38\00:44:00.24
Yet Christ, the Savior
hanging on the cross beside him,
00:44:00.27\00:44:05.09
did not relieve
him of his cross.
00:44:05.13\00:44:08.27
He suffered the consequences
of his sin on this earth.
00:44:08.31\00:44:12.54
He died on that cross
and yet he has eternal life.
00:44:12.57\00:44:16.77
It is a promise
that Christ gave him.
00:44:16.80\00:44:18.66
He will be
resurrected. - absolutely and so
00:44:18.69\00:44:21.42
I can demand
justice for the crime.
00:44:21.46\00:44:24.91
There are consequences to
our actions and his consequence
00:44:24.95\00:44:28.43
is two life terms and
that was a plea bargain.
00:44:28.46\00:44:31.99
The consequences of his actions
for me is that I have to live
00:44:32.03\00:44:35.35
this life without my children
and grandchildren they would
00:44:35.38\00:44:38.62
have had, he has altered
history and I am the innocent
00:44:38.65\00:44:41.86
victim of that and
so are my children.
00:44:41.89\00:44:44.09
They lost their lives.
00:44:44.13\00:44:45.44
Those are the consequences
of the sin, but God can take
00:44:45.47\00:44:48.67
everything that is all wrong
and make it all right again.
00:44:48.70\00:44:52.26
But we will only see that
culmination in the last day.
00:44:52.30\00:44:55.82
That is an incredible
way to look at all this mess.
00:44:57.55\00:45:02.13
To see that God has truly
came in and brought healing
00:45:02.17\00:45:06.72
to everyone. Connie
you have a question.
00:45:06.76\00:45:09.24
Yes, actually first I want
to comment that really it is
00:45:09.27\00:45:12.93
such a blessing your testimony
and how you are able to
00:45:12.96\00:45:16.58
help other people also.
00:45:16.61\00:45:18.08
Through going through what
you have been through in the
00:45:18.11\00:45:20.87
way that you look at
things and how you have clung to
00:45:20.90\00:45:24.02
Lord to get you through
it, it is an amazing testimony
00:45:24.06\00:45:27.15
and I really appreciated it.
00:45:27.18\00:45:28.47
But my question is, in
regard to your relationship with
00:45:28.51\00:45:32.52
your husband I am going
to guess that throughout this
00:45:32.56\00:45:36.54
trauma it put
quite a strain on it.
00:45:36.58\00:45:40.10
I know initially you said
you know that your anger and
00:45:40.14\00:45:43.08
within their first 24 hours
in search of answers in the
00:45:43.11\00:45:46.02
Bible, but initially
you said he shut down.
00:45:46.05\00:45:49.36
So I'm wondering how did that
play out in your relationship?
00:45:49.39\00:45:53.24
Well not knowing anything
about grief recovery back then
00:45:53.27\00:45:56.66
because it was a completely
foreign territory to me,
00:45:56.70\00:46:00.02
I didn't realize that our
different personalities and our
00:46:00.05\00:46:03.49
genders and the losses that
we experienced in our previous
00:46:03.53\00:46:06.90
actually affects how we grieve,
so I had to begin to study that
00:46:06.93\00:46:12.98
out to understand why
he doesn't grieve like me.
00:46:13.01\00:46:16.60
I realize we each have
needs for our own healing and
00:46:16.63\00:46:20.18
we have got to
exercise those things.
00:46:20.21\00:46:22.30
I needed to see the kids,
that was something that was
00:46:22.33\00:46:26.10
important to me, I need
to do things and he did not.
00:46:26.13\00:46:29.86
I needed to go to
the prison and sit down
00:46:29.89\00:46:33.00
and talk to Billy, he did not.
00:46:33.04\00:46:35.39
There were things that I
needed to do that he did not
00:46:35.42\00:46:38.58
need to do, he spent a lot
of time at the funeral home,
00:46:38.61\00:46:41.73
at the grave
sites that first year.
00:46:41.77\00:46:44.28
He would actually climb the
fence at night when the gates
00:46:44.31\00:46:47.45
were closed and just go
in and sit with the kids.
00:46:47.49\00:46:50.43
That's what he
needed for his healing.
00:46:50.46\00:46:52.45
I went ahead of him because
I need to get things done in
00:46:52.49\00:46:57.49
studying the Scriptures and
he was way far behind, it was
00:46:57.52\00:47:01.19
like it almost felt like
it first that at the beginning
00:47:01.22\00:47:04.85
of that search that
Scriptures were trying to take
00:47:04.89\00:47:07.59
me away from him
and he would lose again.
00:47:07.62\00:47:11.11
I was the only thing he
had left, so he would lose
00:47:11.15\00:47:15.13
it all over again and it
took quite a bit a time where
00:47:15.16\00:47:18.73
it took me five years to
find these answers and put it
00:47:18.76\00:47:22.39
all together through prayer,
it took 10 years for him.
00:47:22.42\00:47:25.56
You know I love the way you
even start to introduce that
00:47:25.60\00:47:28.78
and then it is okay that every
body has the their different
00:47:28.82\00:47:32.30
styles and to be able to give
people permission to grieve.
00:47:32.33\00:47:36.83
How they need to grieve,
I'm not going to come in and say
00:47:36.86\00:47:41.33
you have to grieve just
like me, even though that's a
00:47:41.36\00:47:43.54
learned thing the acceptance
that God is going to actually
00:47:43.58\00:47:47.32
come in and give you back a
sense of joy in your life is
00:47:47.35\00:47:51.06
that takes a long time
with this kind of tragedy.
00:47:51.09\00:47:53.71
It does. Are there
any other questions?
00:47:53.74\00:47:56.20
I have a question,
during the time period that
00:47:56.24\00:48:00.90
you were suffering, did
you blame yourself because
00:48:00.94\00:48:05.57
the children were by themselves?
00:48:05.60\00:48:07.78
Did you begin to see yourself
as a person that did the
00:48:07.81\00:48:14.26
wrong thing as a mom
for leaving them alone?
00:48:14.29\00:48:17.26
Or for inviting this
kid in the first place?
00:48:17.30\00:48:20.19
Well I found out many
years later that guilt and blame
00:48:20.23\00:48:23.85
are two classic
parts of grieving.
00:48:23.89\00:48:27.72
So even when there is
no reason to feel guilty,
00:48:27.75\00:48:30.38
or to blame
yourself you do it anyway.
00:48:30.41\00:48:32.90
In this particular
situation George gone to the
00:48:32.93\00:48:36.97
hospital the night before
to spend time with Stephanie
00:48:37.00\00:48:40.33
and I was left alone with
the four healthy children.
00:48:40.36\00:48:43.46
There was an American
Legion meeting that night,
00:48:43.49\00:48:46.19
a woman's auxiliary
meeting and I wanted to go.
00:48:46.23\00:48:48.86
I was a member of the
women's auxiliary, but something
00:48:48.89\00:48:52.86
inside of me said don't go
and no sooner did that happen
00:48:52.90\00:48:56.28
and Billy was at the door
and he had come to kill the
00:48:56.32\00:49:00.01
kids that night but because
I was home he went back out
00:49:00.05\00:49:03.71
and told Ray I can't
do the parents are home.
00:49:03.74\00:49:06.47
Why I did not have that
feeling the second night,
00:49:06.51\00:49:09.21
I was the one that
wanted to go play bingo.
00:49:09.24\00:49:11.64
We had not gone
in three weeks since
00:49:11.67\00:49:13.45
Stephanie went to the hospital.
00:49:13.48\00:49:15.05
I'm the one that needed
the night out and asked George
00:49:15.09\00:49:18.19
he was willing to go.
00:49:18.23\00:49:19.98
So yeah that guilt for
leaving them, George was the
00:49:20.01\00:49:23.32
one that wanted to keep
Billy away, nobody trusted him.
00:49:23.35\00:49:26.63
We lived in an area of
Lake resorts and after the
00:49:26.66\00:49:31.34
children were killed one of
the resort owners came up to
00:49:31.37\00:49:34.48
me and said, all of us were out
that night, Thursday night is
00:49:34.52\00:49:37.89
the night to go out because
when you run a resort you take
00:49:37.92\00:49:41.25
care of tourists on the weekend.
00:49:41.29\00:49:42.97
That lady told me, she said
none of us would allow Billy
00:49:43.01\00:49:46.72
to come down to our resorts,
we had all banned Billy from
00:49:46.75\00:49:50.42
our resorts, I was
the only one that allowed
00:49:50.46\00:49:53.45
Billy in the house anymore.
00:49:53.48\00:49:55.65
I was the only one that
wanted to be there for him and
00:49:55.68\00:49:58.06
trust him and my
family became the target.
00:49:58.09\00:50:01.64
So yeah I blamed myself.
00:50:01.68\00:50:03.42
You know I want to say because
we're running out of time,
00:50:03.46\00:50:06.64
like you had said is that
what you have learned is that
00:50:06.68\00:50:09.83
blame is such a
common part of this.
00:50:09.86\00:50:12.76
Even with no blame, even if
you have done everything right
00:50:12.79\00:50:16.19
you will find
things to hang a hook on.
00:50:16.23\00:50:19.96
If I would've thought
this, if I would have said this,
00:50:20.00\00:50:22.00
if I would have
done this and on.
00:50:22.04\00:50:23.99
And I think faith and acceptance
is a big thing right now is
00:50:24.02\00:50:27.01
that God comes in and
says let Me hold you because
00:50:27.05\00:50:30.35
you are going to have all
those what if's, you're going
00:50:30.38\00:50:32.45
to want to scream, you're
going to want to cry and you're
00:50:32.49\00:50:34.76
going to want to never forgive
and I want to heal you of
00:50:34.80\00:50:38.09
all that because the bottom
line is those are so toxic.
00:50:38.13\00:50:41.39
God comes in and
pours into you healing.
00:50:41.43\00:50:44.24
Joy I have seen men in
your life so much, and it has
00:50:44.27\00:50:47.83
helped and benefited thousands.
00:50:47.86\00:50:51.74
Your first book I think 80,000
copies were sold right away.
00:50:51.77\00:50:55.14
And those were people that
needed you to say to them that
00:50:55.17\00:50:58.51
you will get through this.
00:50:58.54\00:50:59.56
So thank you so much,
thank you for being on the show,
00:50:59.60\00:51:02.19
thank you for blessing
us and thank you for being
00:51:02.23\00:51:04.69
my friend. - thank you.
00:51:04.73\00:51:06.25
We will be
right back stay tuned.
00:51:06.28\00:51:09.38
Amazing stories, real people
in real situations discussing
00:51:16.06\00:51:19.40
issues that really matter.
00:51:19.44\00:51:21.14
A complete first season of
Celebrating Life In Recover is
00:51:21.17\00:51:24.52
now available on DVD and
can be ordered by calling 3ABN
00:51:24.55\00:51:27.86
or online at 3ABN.org
hosted by Cheri Peters.
00:51:27.89\00:51:31.02
This season follows
principles of the book
00:51:31.05\00:51:34.14
'Steps to Christ'.
00:51:34.18\00:51:35.39
See for yourself how
God changed the lives of the
00:51:35.43\00:51:37.63
convicted and the accused
and victims of terrible crimes.
00:51:37.66\00:51:40.51
You won't want to miss a moment
00:51:40.54\00:51:42.26
of these powerful interviews.
00:51:42.30\00:51:43.98
We have talked about a
lot of things on this show and
00:51:48.85\00:51:51.83
some of them, most of them
have been incredibly serious,
00:51:51.87\00:51:56.73
tragic even, but I am so proud
of God the way He... it doesn't
00:51:56.77\00:52:00.40
matter what is thrown at us,
whether it is their own choices
00:52:00.44\00:52:04.04
or the things that we
have gone out and done like
00:52:04.08\00:52:06.66
my own addiction or Lance
Michael and his addiction,
00:52:06.70\00:52:09.25
God will work with
the addict and get them
00:52:09.28\00:52:13.09
into a place of recovery.
00:52:13.13\00:52:15.11
With Chris when she started
standing up on her own again
00:52:15.15\00:52:19.59
and she realized that she
was going to have to recover
00:52:19.63\00:52:24.03
and turn to God, bring
everything back to Him.
00:52:24.07\00:52:27.18
Every step God
loved and nurtured her,
00:52:27.21\00:52:31.21
every step He helped her.
00:52:31.24\00:52:33.17
Every time she would ask
a question, like you Joann,
00:52:33.20\00:52:36.52
she wanted to know what
happened to my son and where is
00:52:36.55\00:52:39.83
he in all of those
things as I watched God bring
00:52:39.87\00:52:42.75
healing into her life
and I was so proud of her.
00:52:42.78\00:52:45.53
Lance Michael had told
her at once point then I want
00:52:45.56\00:52:48.27
you mom to go until
kids what happened to me.
00:52:48.30\00:52:51.49
She has been all over the
world, she's been to Russia
00:52:51.53\00:52:54.61
with me, she's been to
Thailand with me working with
00:52:54.65\00:52:57.70
street kids in the
sex industry in Bangkok.
00:52:57.73\00:53:00.41
Working with heroine
addicts in Russia and
00:53:00.45\00:53:03.09
throughout the United States.
00:53:03.13\00:53:05.04
There was one week, in a
weeks time we talked to 250,000
00:53:05.08\00:53:09.83
kids, 250,000 kids and I
know, I'm going to get back,
00:53:09.86\00:53:15.00
I know Joy, in my own recovery
that your story helped me
00:53:15.03\00:53:20.13
to look at
forgiveness in a way that
00:53:20.17\00:53:21.79
I had never
looked at forgiveness.
00:53:21.83\00:53:23.39
I had such a difficult time
even forgiving my parents for
00:53:23.42\00:53:27.37
not loving me and for
being on the street and for the
00:53:27.40\00:53:30.45
rejection that I felt
and all those kind of things.
00:53:30.48\00:53:33.28
I thought you know, I
heard what you said in your own
00:53:33.31\00:53:36.08
book and in your own
testimony is that God wants
00:53:36.11\00:53:39.52
to teach us to forgive so
that we can actually heal.
00:53:39.55\00:53:43.36
So I could see on a scale
that is bigger than me that
00:53:43.40\00:53:46.92
God is really wanting us
to say these are all my kids
00:53:46.95\00:53:50.44
and Satan has thrown a
wrench into the clog and
00:53:50.47\00:53:56.86
everything is getting
jammed up, but I am God, I will
00:53:56.90\00:54:00.38
teach you to forgive and I
will teach you how to heal.
00:54:00.42\00:54:03.82
Joy I want to thank you for
that, I want to thank you for
00:54:03.85\00:54:06.83
putting it out there and I
know it took 11 years in your
00:54:06.87\00:54:09.91
process of forgiveness, but
because you shared that with
00:54:09.94\00:54:13.71
me through your book I
was comforted like it says in
00:54:13.74\00:54:16.82
2 Corinthians about the
comfort that you have given that
00:54:16.85\00:54:19.90
you got from God
you comforted me with.
00:54:19.93\00:54:22.15
So I just want to have you
share, you have a family now?
00:54:22.18\00:54:27.05
You have kids now?
00:54:27.09\00:54:28.09
Talk a little bit about that.
00:54:28.13\00:54:29.90
Well Sandy was born 11
months after we lost the other
00:54:29.93\00:54:32.86
kids, then we had another
little boy Matthew and another
00:54:32.89\00:54:35.78
one Michael and
they are two years apart.
00:54:35.82\00:54:38.74
They are all
grown on their own now,
00:54:38.78\00:54:40.85
they are 24, 26 and 28.
00:54:40.89\00:54:43.88
And you are having grandbabies?
00:54:43.92\00:54:45.67
We are having grandbabies.
00:54:45.70\00:54:46.83
I have two grandsons
Gabriel is 11 months old and
00:54:46.87\00:54:50.48
Devon is three months old and
00:54:50.51\00:54:52.98
they are an incredible blessing.
00:54:53.01\00:54:55.41
So God is bringing things
back into your life in a huge
00:54:55.45\00:54:58.90
way. - yes He has, He has
done incredible things in my
00:54:58.94\00:55:02.35
life and He gets all the credit.
00:55:02.39\00:55:04.44
He does and I am
so blessed by you.
00:55:04.48\00:55:06.46
There are addictions that
we bring into our lives that
00:55:06.50\00:55:10.81
we need to overcome.
00:55:10.85\00:55:12.86
We need to have a total make
over, I love the fact that God
00:55:12.89\00:55:16.46
in His word said that in
Psalms 51 and I would like to
00:55:16.49\00:55:20.49
read it because it is absolutely
an amazing Psalms 51 says
00:55:20.53\00:55:24.12
"have mercy on me Oh God
because of your unfailing love,
00:55:24.15\00:55:27.72
"because of the great compassion
blot out the stain of my
00:55:27.75\00:55:31.44
"sin. Wash me clean from my
guilt and purify me from sin
00:55:31.47\00:55:35.09
"far I recognize my rebellion,
it haunts me day and night.
00:55:35.12\00:55:38.94
"Against you and you alone
have I sinned. I have done wrong
00:55:38.98\00:55:42.73
"I have done evil in your sight.
You will be proved right in what
00:55:42.76\00:55:47.53
"ever you say about me in
whatever judgment you have about
00:55:47.56\00:55:50.45
"me will be right, for I was
born a sinner, from the moment
00:55:50.48\00:55:53.65
"my mother conceived me,
but you desire honesty from the
00:55:53.69\00:55:57.33
"womb teaching me wisdom
even there. Purify me from my
00:55:57.37\00:56:00.43
"sins and I will be clean,
wash me and I will be whiter
00:56:00.46\00:56:03.72
"than snow. Give me back
my joy again. You have broken
00:56:03.76\00:56:07.26
"me now help me to rejoice
and don't look too close at my
00:56:07.30\00:56:10.72
"sins. Remove the stain of
my guilt and creating me a clean
00:56:10.75\00:56:14.13
"heart oh God and renew
a loyal spirit within me. "
00:56:14.17\00:56:17.92
So create in me and make me new.
00:56:17.96\00:56:19.59
It's amazing, confess your
addictions and junk to God,
00:56:19.63\00:56:23.02
your sin, God will
forgive you and through the
00:56:23.05\00:56:25.85
Holy Spirit He will
lead you into a new life.
00:56:25.89\00:56:28.62
It's a little harder when
the things that have happened
00:56:28.65\00:56:32.52
to you, like Joy are not
something that you brought into
00:56:32.55\00:56:36.38
your life, would never
have asked for such a thing
00:56:36.42\00:56:38.08
but emotionally it
has almost destroyed you.
00:56:38.11\00:56:41.61
God said confess, forgive,
even forgive God Himself
00:56:41.64\00:56:45.03
and allow Him to restore life.
00:56:45.06\00:56:47.57
It is said in the 2 Corinthians
1:4 you will be comforted,
00:56:47.60\00:56:52.10
you'll comfort others by
the comfort that God has given
00:56:52.13\00:56:56.19
you. Life is not always
fair and the devil has really
00:56:56.23\00:57:00.62
tried to destroy folks and
God is always, always good.
00:57:00.66\00:57:04.37
He will restore everything
that has been taken from you,
00:57:04.41\00:57:08.10
everything that has physically,
emotionally, spiritually
00:57:08.13\00:57:11.79
caused you such pain
and will bring hope and
00:57:11.82\00:57:14.92
joy back into your life.
00:57:14.96\00:57:16.34
He has with Joy, He has
with me, He has with Chris,
00:57:16.38\00:57:19.77
and He has with
countless others.
00:57:19.80\00:57:21.57
Let Him bring
healing into your life.
00:57:21.61\00:57:23.30
Next time on Celebrating
Life In Recovery we are going to
00:57:23.34\00:57:27.12
be talking to a Vietnam vet
who was destroyed by his anger
00:57:27.15\00:57:30.90
and was destroying other people.
00:57:30.93\00:57:33.04
He has actually come to God
and said God, I can't go on.
00:57:33.07\00:57:38.78
I can't do this God has and
is teaching him to give up his
00:57:38.81\00:57:43.31
rage, to give up his anger,
all the emotional junk that
00:57:43.35\00:57:47.81
has been in his life.
00:57:47.84\00:57:49.28
God is turning all of
that around and he is finding
00:57:49.31\00:57:52.81
recovery so join us
you will be blessed.
00:57:52.84\00:57:55.67
I know you will, God
bless, see you next time.
00:57:55.70\00:57:58.95