Welcome to
Celebrating Life In Recovery
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I'm Cheri your host.
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Today we will look at the
key to a successful recovery,
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repentance, being sick and
tired of being sick and tired.
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Or in layman's terms,
being sorry enough to quit.
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Come join us this is
going to be incredible.
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Repentance is not a word
that we hear much of anymore.
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When I think about how
to explain that concept of
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repentance to most addicts,
I try to tell them taking
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responsibility for your stuff.
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For once looking at your life
from the perspective that maybe
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it is your stuff, maybe you have
sinned, maybe it is your fault.
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For many of us, we
think that is ridiculous.
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That is ridiculous, you
don't know me, this is not my
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fault, and they want to
explain to you why it isn't.
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Before we go there are
want to just say thank you for
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coming to the café today.
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We have Fred and Brenda
Stoeker on the show today.
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It's going to be amazing, but
I want to tell you some things
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that I learned about folks
in recovery and repentance.
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When I first heard that
maybe this was my fault,
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I thought wait a minute, I
was not wanted from the day
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I came out of my mother's womb.
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My parents were messed
up, not only were my parents
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messed up, my mom was
molested most of her life.
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She was given up by her mom
who was an alcoholic when she
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was five, given to an
aunt and that aunt's husband
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molested her from 5 to 12.
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She was trashed before she
even started her family and
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bringing kids into the
world and all those things.
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So when I think about fault
and think of all that I want
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to jump up and say hey
wait, wait I didn't do it.
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It wasn't my fault.
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The more I work with
people, the more I hear their
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stories, I understand that.
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I hear that so loud that
I'm not saying fault in the same
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way as the world says fault.
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The Bible says, I really
believe this, as Christ brought
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me into place where it's
says Cheri, when you walk every
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day, the things that you
choose today will help you to
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either heal or
stay in your stuff.
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So repentance is understanding
my stuff enough to where
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I can step out of that.
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I want to tell you a story
about one of the guys I work
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with, he came into the Ministry
Center and God has given us an
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international
Ministry and I love it.
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It's called True Step
Ministries and I have this ranch
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where we work with
the kids of prisoners.
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So we bringing kids that
the parents are in prison and
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try to teach them
some normal stuff.
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How to ride horses, do
you know why we do that?
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Is that we want them to
learn how to take instructions.
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How to trust something,
how to respond to people.
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So the horses are something
that God blessed us with,
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but there's all kinds of
dynamics that happen with that.
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So we have this ranch, and
one day I'm standing at the
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Ministry Center and
I am doing some things.
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This guy walks in and I
thought he looked like a serial
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killer, he just looked terrible.
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I turned around I
felt my pulse quicken.
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I was homeless for 10
years, I am a street kid and not
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much scares me, right!
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I just want to tell you, I
am not exaggerating, I don't get
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scared too easy, but I
turned around and this guy
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had 15 facial piercings.
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So Curly, just on his face,
we're not going to his ears yet.
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He had 15 facial piercings
and they were sticking out
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everywhere, he had them
in his tongue, in his lip,
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in his eyebrow and metal
going straight through his face.
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It was just crazy.
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Then he had 8 or 9 earrings
in each ear, huge earrings
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those big gauged earrings.
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He had a tattoo of a dragon
starting from his head that
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look like the fingernails
of the Dragon were opening up
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his skull and he had
that all over his body.
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And he came in and said
someone said you could help me.
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I'm like yeah.
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But I don't want
any of that Jesus stuff.
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And I want to say that I'm
being really nice because he
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did not say it like that,
you can use your imagination
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on that, but he did
not say it like that.
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He was like right in my
face, and I thought somebody
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just as a joke at my house
and because I'm a Jesus freak.
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I love God more than
I love anything else.
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I know I have gotten
life back, I have gotten hope.
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Everything in me says if
we could just get a sense of
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who God really is, the
world would be a better place.
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There is a guy here
saying that I want recovery but
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I don't want God
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I'm thinking how
funny, who sent you here?
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He tells me this story, and
I have to tell you the story
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because it cracks me up.
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So he goes to Starbucks every
single day, every single day
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and there is this little girl
that came in with her family
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and she saw him
sitting in Starbucks.
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And she walked by and it
was early in the morning.
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They were going to get coffee
and drop her off at preschool.
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She walks in and her name
is Rebecca, she is almost 5.
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She walks in and she
sees Jim, piercings, tattoos,
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and she says
mom, look at that guy.
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And her mom was so embarrassed,
oh hon, you don't do that.
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You just don't point at
people and say look at that guy.
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You have to be polite especially
when they look like serial
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killers, don't do that.
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So after they got out of
Starbucks, her mom gave her the
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lecture of what's
polite and what's not polite.
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But she's like mom, did you
see him, he had things stuck
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in his face, did
you see the his head?
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Yes, yes, yes and trying
to explain to Rebecca why
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people do that was really tough.
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Her mom hadn't been exposed
to a lot of that so she didn't
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have a lot of good answers
other than you don't point at
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people, and you don't yell look
at that guy across the room.
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So the next time they
came in her mom was actually
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hoping that Jim wasn't there.
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We call him tattooed
Jim now, and Jim was there.
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So Rebecca walks in and
she knows she's going to get in
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trouble if she looks at him.
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So she wants to look to
see if he is in the room.
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But she also doesn't
want to get in trouble,
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so she walks in and
she has gone her head down.
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All of a sudden she's like,
ahhh mom, he's there again.
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And her mom said, oh stop, you
cannot do that and her mom is
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so embarrassed and they
have to go through this whole
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thing again outside of Starbucks
I shouldn't say Starbucks.
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Well you know coffee shop
in America, so anyhow they get
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through this whole thing
again and she lectures her and
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the next time they come in
she so sure that she is not
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going to look at this man.
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She has got her head in
her hands holding herself down.
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And she's like I'm not
going to look, I'm not going to
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look, I'm not going to
look, and all of a sudden she's
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she doesn't yell
she just waves to him.
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And he waves back.
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Her moms orders her coffee
and her mom's girlfriend comes
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in, and as her girlfriend
comes in and they start talking.
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Rebecca manipulates a
little bit to get her hand free.
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And she walks over to
Jim and grabs his head
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and said, did that hurt?
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Let me count how many
things you have on your face,
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1, 2, 3, and she
grabs his ear, 1, 2, 3, 4.
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And she's doing all this
counting, she's looking at his
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tattoos, in she's looking on
the back of his head and he has
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this evil looking eye.
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And she's like, can
you see out of that?
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She was wanting to know
everything, did that hurt?
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He said the one on the
back of my head, that hurt bad.
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She's talking on all of a
sudden she realizes that my
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mom is probably looking for
me, and at the same time her
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mom realizes she doesn't
have a hand to Rebecca anymore.
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She is panicked and she
looks up at tattoo Jim and
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Rebecca, her little beautiful
child has got his head in
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her hands and she panic's.
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She says what do I do,
do I run across the room and
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grab my child and throw
ourselves on the ground and say
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God thank you so much he
didn't kill her, or kidnap her,
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or what ever, do I run
outside, do I do whatever?
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She said all of a sudden the
Holy Spirit just relaxed her.
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He said just wait it's okay.
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So she watched what was
happening and then Rebecca came
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over and said mom
this is tattoo Jim.
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Jim this is mom.
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They started having a
relationship, every time
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they saw each other, after that
they would say Hi to each other.
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It was really cool and she
would leave and one day she came
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in and her mom said you
know tell Jim that you are going
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home to your grandmother's
for Christmas and you will
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see him in two weeks.
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She started
crying, we can't do that.
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Why not you love your
grandmother, why not what's up?
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We can't do that
because who's going to spend
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Christmas with Jim?
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Her mom said Jim's family.
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Then she said, loud in
the middle of a coffee shop,
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Jim doesn't have any
family I don't think.
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She cried, and finally
they left and she said okay we
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can go if we get Jim a present.
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And they go to the store
and get Jim a present and she
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wrapped it, she doesn't know
how to wrap she is just a little
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kid and she crumpled
some paper around and put tape
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around that she runs in
and runs up to Jim and says,
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Jim I got you a present.
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Jim said I started tearing
up because not many people
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have ever gotten me a
present, especially lately.
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I'm angry and I don't really
let people in with those things.
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This little girl is adorable
and she handed the present
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and he just took
it and he held it.
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She said no open it, open it.
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He's saying no you
should've done this.
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She's like, open it, come
on open it, she is so excited.
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He opens it, and Jim likes
to draw and it was brand-new
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mechanical pencil.
Brand-new, and he teared up.
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He said I haven't
teared up for ever, for ever.
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As he teared up, he looked
at her and he said the only
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thing I could think
of, I know her Rebecca,
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she goes to my church,
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She said the only thing I
could think of is to ask him
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if he knew who Jesus was?
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So she said Jim, do
you know who Jesus is?
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He said if it would have
been anyone else I would have
00:11:06.60\00:11:09.57
grabbed them by the face
and slammed their face into
00:11:09.61\00:11:12.99
a brick wall, how dare
anybody talk to me about God.
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What has God done
for me in my life.
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He said there was so much
rage and anger that welled up
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in him that he could even
stand it and this little girl
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standing there in front of
him and he said I just wanted
00:11:24.62\00:11:27.73
to bash her face in, but
I realized I liked her and
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I know she meant no harm.
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And he said no I
don't know who Jesus is.
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Awh you got to meet Jesus!
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She left and went
to grandma's house.
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She comes back, a couple
weeks have passed, and she runs
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and is hoping Jim is there.
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He is there, hey
Jim how was Christmas?
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How is everything, you
know what I thought about while
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I was gone, I
thought about my friend.
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I have a friend named Cheri
and she likes people like you.
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So that is how he got sent
to my house, she just sent him
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over, and God told me, you
know what, if I wasn't working
00:12:03.34\00:12:07.84
with him he would be
sitting in front of you.
00:12:07.87\00:12:09.70
He wouldn't be here.
00:12:09.73\00:12:11.24
So I thought how fun is that
and we took him on a mission
00:12:11.28\00:12:14.42
trip, a mission trip with us.
00:12:14.45\00:12:17.05
The next day I said, Jim do you
want to go on a trip with us?
00:12:17.08\00:12:19.30
He said yeah, what
kind of trip is it he said?
00:12:19.34\00:12:21.67
Well we go into a town and
there's a lot of things we do
00:12:21.71\00:12:25.28
when we do Ministry and go into
a town, we go to a legislative
00:12:25.31\00:12:28.25
group and talk to them, we
talk to junior high schools.
00:12:28.28\00:12:31.11
High schools, we talk to
the jails, and talk to juvenile
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hall, and we end it by
talking to the churches.
00:12:33.97\00:12:36.55
What churches I don't even care,
you want us to speak call us up.
00:12:36.59\00:12:41.14
So that is our week laid out.
00:12:41.17\00:12:44.62
He said to me, I'll talk
to that legislative group,
00:12:44.65\00:12:47.97
I'll talk to schools, and
I want to go to juvenile hall
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but I'm not talking
to any crazy church.
00:12:51.32\00:12:53.87
I'm thinking what my
going to do with this guy?
00:12:53.90\00:12:57.35
And he really is obnoxious
and so I said, you know what
00:12:57.38\00:13:00.74
Jim if we work together, one
thing you have to know is that
00:13:00.78\00:13:03.56
I am the boss, and you'll talk
where ever I tell you to talk.
00:13:03.59\00:13:06.34
I thought he is either
going to kill me, or he is going
00:13:06.38\00:13:09.82
to hear that, and he said
okay but I won't lie to them.
00:13:09.86\00:13:13.04
I said no one not asking
you to lie to anybody, but if
00:13:13.07\00:13:15.61
we are at a church gig, just
tell them why you want to do
00:13:15.64\00:13:18.15
recovery, why is it
you want to stop drugs?
00:13:18.18\00:13:20.52
Just tell them that, you
don't have to pretend you
00:13:20.55\00:13:22.89
believe in God or any of that.
00:13:22.93\00:13:24.11
I have to tell you that
within days he totally gives
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his life to Christ, and I
wish I could you the whole story
00:13:28.92\00:13:31.29
because it was so amazing.
00:13:31.32\00:13:33.13
But within days he is
weeping, saying you know what?
00:13:33.16\00:13:36.60
I want to meet God, I
don't want to be like this.
00:13:36.64\00:13:40.01
I am so full of anger, and
then every time I turned around,
00:13:40.04\00:13:43.00
every single time I
turned around he was crying.
00:13:43.03\00:13:46.63
I'm not very nice because I
would say Jim, we have to go.
00:13:46.67\00:13:49.83
Was I too harsh, your not
going to start crying are you?
00:13:49.87\00:13:53.00
He would say Cheri,
shut up, just shut up.
00:13:54.57\00:13:57.42
It was so funny, but
he cried about everything.
00:13:57.45\00:14:00.40
I asked him, why are you crying?
He said I never cry what's this!
00:14:00.43\00:14:05.72
He said all of a sudden he
would think about when he was
00:14:05.75\00:14:09.75
younger, he got beat by
his father horribly, horribly.
00:14:09.79\00:14:13.23
His mother was beaten, and
he was beaten and his dad was
00:14:13.26\00:14:16.62
so drunk most the time that
Jim at 6, 7, 8 years old would
00:14:16.66\00:14:19.98
have to drive home for his dad.
00:14:20.02\00:14:21.99
He would stand him on
the seat of the car with the
00:14:22.02\00:14:26.00
steering wheel in his hands.
00:14:26.03\00:14:27.48
He couldn't reach the
pedals but his dad drunk would
00:14:27.51\00:14:29.79
press on the gas and
you just keep the car or
00:14:29.82\00:14:34.30
truck in the road.
00:14:34.34\00:14:35.36
He would get to 60, 70,
80 miles an hour just to see
00:14:35.39\00:14:38.68
how much guts Jim had, and
he said I was petrified all
00:14:38.72\00:14:41.97
the time, all the time.
00:14:42.00\00:14:43.64
He said when I grow up I
will never be like my dad,
00:14:43.67\00:14:45.93
but he was exactly like
his dad when he grew up.
00:14:45.96\00:14:48.15
He beat his wife, beat his
kids and would get so drunk
00:14:48.18\00:14:51.45
and so high that he
would come home to his babies.
00:14:51.48\00:14:54.68
I know Curly you have a
three-week-old baby, his babies
00:14:54.71\00:14:58.32
would be crying, crying,
wanted to be fed or changed.
00:14:58.35\00:15:01.84
He said, don't you know
I have to get some sleep,
00:15:01.88\00:15:04.72
I want you to shut up
and he was screaming at them.
00:15:04.76\00:15:07.75
Of course they cried more,
he said the only way I could
00:15:07.78\00:15:10.94
shut them up is I would
put a pillow over their face
00:15:10.97\00:15:13.94
until day passed out and
then I would get some sleep.
00:15:13.98\00:15:16.88
He said in his relationship
with Christ he would see that.
00:15:16.92\00:15:22.44
He would hear God
say and I forgive you.
00:15:22.47\00:15:26.47
I forgive you, and
he would weep, he wept.
00:15:26.51\00:15:30.44
I thought how amazing,
repentance is to see it,
00:15:30.47\00:15:34.20
just to see it, and not to
see it and do anything yet.
00:15:34.24\00:15:37.61
It's not about doing anything,
repentance doesn't mean
00:15:37.64\00:15:40.91
that I see it and change
every single thing and I behave
00:15:40.95\00:15:44.19
the rest of my life.
00:15:44.22\00:15:45.20
You know what? Jim still
doesn't know how to behave.
00:15:45.24\00:15:47.91
He saw it and he asked God
for His blood, Jesus cover me,
00:15:47.95\00:15:52.33
cover me I want to be saved.
00:15:52.37\00:15:54.09
So he sees it, and what is
really amazing to me is that
00:15:54.13\00:15:57.33
I even sent him, he wanted
to be baptized so I sent him
00:15:57.37\00:16:00.53
over to my pastor's house.
00:16:00.57\00:16:02.23
He came home and he
said you know what Cheri?
00:16:02.27\00:16:04.31
He came to the Ministry
Center, you're lucky I didn't
00:16:04.34\00:16:07.21
just take that guy and
bash his face, he is a nut.
00:16:07.24\00:16:11.03
He is a nut and I know
that if you truly knew what that
00:16:11.06\00:16:14.78
guy believed, you would not have
him as your pastor, He is crazy.
00:16:14.81\00:16:19.50
I thought I love my pastor,
what is he talking about.
00:16:19.54\00:16:23.24
I said Jim what did he say
to you, sit down and relax.
00:16:23.27\00:16:26.93
He couldn't hardly
relax, he was just screaming.
00:16:26.97\00:16:28.73
He said do you know the dude
I accepted into my life, Jesus.
00:16:28.76\00:16:32.31
Yeah I know that dude.
00:16:32.34\00:16:34.15
He said that dude is three
dudes in one, how crazy is that?
00:16:34.19\00:16:38.37
I thought how funny is that?
00:16:40.17\00:16:42.06
God in repentance in
our first walk He is not
00:16:42.09\00:16:45.09
asking us for big things.
00:16:45.13\00:16:46.62
He's saying just see who
you are and give it to Me.
00:16:46.65\00:16:49.59
Acknowledge that
maybe it is your fault.
00:16:49.63\00:16:52.94
Turn to Me and I will so walk
you into the rest of your life.
00:16:52.98\00:16:58.28
So we are going to come
back right after the break.
00:16:58.31\00:17:00.81
We are going to come back
and I'm going to introduce you
00:17:00.85\00:17:02.30
to Fred and Brenda
Stoeker and you are going to be
00:17:02.34\00:17:05.54
blessed, absolutely blessed
because some of us really
00:17:05.58\00:17:08.75
need to know, okay I understand.
00:17:08.78\00:17:11.72
I understand repentance,
I understand now being sorry
00:17:11.76\00:17:14.58
enough to quit, but were now
what, I don't know what to do.
00:17:14.61\00:17:16.99
So stay with us,
we'll be right back!
00:17:17.03\00:17:18.96
We want to introduce you
to a beautiful book called
00:17:25.83\00:17:28.68
'Steps to Christ', each
program in this series is
00:17:28.72\00:17:31.50
based on a different chapter
showing you how to become
00:17:31.54\00:17:34.25
a Christian and gain
victory over your addictions.
00:17:34.29\00:17:37.42
'Steps to Christ' is our
gift to you, free of charge.
00:17:37.45\00:17:40.55
Just call us at:
00:17:40.58\00:17:41.87
During regular
business hours or write to:
00:17:44.64\00:17:47.14
Welcome back, I love
this segment where I get to
00:18:08.82\00:18:12.05
introduce the guests.
00:18:12.09\00:18:13.54
Fred and Brenda Stoeker you
have been on the show before
00:18:13.58\00:18:15.66
and we were
blessed by your testimony.
00:18:15.69\00:18:18.37
Before we start, I want to
ask the same thing that I asked
00:18:18.41\00:18:22.82
before, Fred can you tell
us a little bit, in a nutshell,
00:18:22.86\00:18:27.24
your testimony so
then I want to ask Brenda,
00:18:27.27\00:18:29.63
how she dealt with all that.
00:18:29.66\00:18:31.21
In college I just got hooked
on pornography pretty deeply.
00:18:31.24\00:18:35.63
Then I was chasing women
and had four girlfriends and I
00:18:35.67\00:18:40.03
was sleeping with three of them.
00:18:40.06\00:18:41.49
I was essentially
engaged to be married to two.
00:18:41.53\00:18:43.46
So all I would say is that
I was way off the path and it
00:18:43.50\00:18:47.87
was at that point that the
Lord came into my life, caught
00:18:47.91\00:18:51.50
my attention and made me
realize that there were some
00:18:51.54\00:18:55.10
things about me
that needed to change.
00:18:55.14\00:18:57.45
You know even on the last
show we did with you, when you
00:18:57.48\00:19:00.93
talked about, there was
sexual addiction and pornography
00:19:00.97\00:19:04.38
in your family that
came down generations.
00:19:04.42\00:19:06.59
I thought that was
interesting is that generational
00:19:06.63\00:19:10.19
stuff was passed down.
00:19:10.23\00:19:11.44
Yeah that is very common,
if you look at the average age
00:19:11.47\00:19:15.39
of when a young man sees
his first pornography at 11.
00:19:15.42\00:19:19.30
That means half of
young men see it before that.
00:19:19.34\00:19:21.21
I saw my first pornography,
it was my dad's, he had it
00:19:21.25\00:19:24.05
underneath his bed, and
I saw it at the age of 6 in
00:19:24.08\00:19:26.84
first grade so
that's how things pass down.
00:19:26.88\00:19:30.24
People aren't careful, a
young man sees it and gets his
00:19:30.28\00:19:34.45
heart captured, and then he
starts the spiral just as his
00:19:34.49\00:19:38.63
father, and just
like his grandfather.
00:19:38.67\00:19:40.43
Cheri: and the
devil just laughs.
00:19:40.47\00:19:42.18
Fred: oh yes he laughs pretty
hard I'm sure, but God gets
00:19:42.21\00:19:45.24
the last laugh
as we turn to Him.
00:19:45.27\00:19:46.91
Cheri: I like that, okay
so when Fred was dealing with
00:19:46.95\00:19:51.00
all the different things,
pornography, his struggle,
00:19:51.04\00:19:55.03
his meeting Christ, and then
he meets you, but you don't have
00:19:55.06\00:19:59.39
the same kind of
background at all.
00:19:59.43\00:20:00.71
Brenda: that's right,
right, our backgrounds were as
00:20:00.75\00:20:03.22
different as night and day.
00:20:03.26\00:20:04.75
I came for a very strong
Christian home background.
00:20:04.79\00:20:07.95
A wonderful family
and his was considerably
00:20:07.98\00:20:11.97
different, and tougher.
00:20:12.00\00:20:13.41
Fred: as a matter of fact,
when I came into her family,
00:20:13.45\00:20:15.80
it was one of those
almost spacey kind of thing.
00:20:15.83\00:20:20.65
I saw this family, first
of all, all the sisters and
00:20:20.69\00:20:24.44
brothers, mom and dad, uncle
and aunt's all lived within
00:20:24.48\00:20:28.20
2 miles of each other.
00:20:28.23\00:20:29.97
So not only was she
growing up with her brothers,
00:20:30.01\00:20:33.22
she was growing up of all
her cousins and they were all
00:20:33.26\00:20:34.67
as close as
brothers and sisters.
00:20:34.71\00:20:36.19
When I went in there and I
saw this family, I was shocked.
00:20:36.23\00:20:40.62
I remember saying to
myself, wow, I didn't know
00:20:40.65\00:20:43.73
anything like this
existed because they didn't do
00:20:43.76\00:20:46.80
what my family did.
00:20:46.84\00:20:48.00
My family spent a lot of
time yelling at each other.
00:20:48.04\00:20:50.59
The louder you were the
more right you were, that sort
00:20:50.62\00:20:53.52
of thing and when I got
into this home it was peaceful
00:20:53.55\00:20:56.12
and people loved each
other, people were kind to each
00:20:56.16\00:20:59.03
other, there was not
the storminess and the pain.
00:20:59.07\00:21:01.87
I didn't know how to deal
with it at first, all I did know
00:21:01.91\00:21:04.91
was that I wanted to be part of
this, I want to graft into this,
00:21:04.94\00:21:08.20
I want to be like this someday.
00:21:08.23\00:21:10.45
Cheri: you had met God so you
already had a sense of what that
00:21:10.49\00:21:14.05
felt like with the Holy Spirit,
anyway stepping into the family.
00:21:14.08\00:21:17.60
But I had never seen it
played out in real life.
00:21:17.64\00:21:20.03
It's not like I grew up getting
beat, I didn't get sexually
00:21:22.38\00:21:26.48
abused, but there
was a lot of verbal abuse
00:21:26.51\00:21:29.64
and a lot of pressure.
00:21:29.67\00:21:31.07
I grew up not feeling
really loved by my father.
00:21:31.10\00:21:34.76
He thought I was a
sissy basically and he thought
00:21:34.80\00:21:38.43
I was never going
to be the man he was.
00:21:38.46\00:21:39.81
He was a national
wrestling champion and honestly,
00:21:39.84\00:21:42.45
I guess I never was the
man he was in the area of
00:21:42.49\00:21:45.64
wrestling, but it made
very difficult in growing up.
00:21:45.68\00:21:48.79
I never felt accepted
and when I saw her home I
00:21:48.83\00:21:52.55
really did feel excepted.
00:21:52.58\00:21:53.61
As a matter of fact probably
the key moment, in my life,
00:21:53.65\00:21:56.11
in her family, was one I
asked her dad for her hand
00:21:56.14\00:22:00.24
in marriage and he
was on his deathbed.
00:22:00.27\00:22:02.34
He was destined to die a
few months before we actually
00:22:02.37\00:22:06.37
got married, but he knew and
I knew that whatever promises
00:22:06.40\00:22:10.37
I made that day he wouldn't
be around make me keep them
00:22:10.40\00:22:13.00
or hold me to them.
00:22:13.03\00:22:14.92
He said something to me
that no man had ever said.
00:22:14.96\00:22:17.90
He said yes you look like
the kind of man that will keep
00:22:17.94\00:22:24.10
his promises, from the
moment he said that, I said okay
00:22:24.13\00:22:28.40
maybe I haven't kept promises
in the past, but I will keep
00:22:28.43\00:22:32.08
this one because when I get
to heaven someday and follow
00:22:32.12\00:22:35.70
him there, I am not
going to have turn my eyes away
00:22:35.74\00:22:39.29
when I look him in the face.
00:22:39.32\00:22:40.68
I'm going to be able to
look at Frank, and say Frank
00:22:40.71\00:22:42.96
I did what I said I'd do
and he's going to grin and
00:22:43.00\00:22:45.22
pat me on the back.
00:22:45.25\00:22:46.48
You see I want that, I
want to be the kind of man that
00:22:46.51\00:22:49.66
keeps his promises.
00:22:49.69\00:22:51.12
That kind of trust, and
that kind of heart was something
00:22:51.16\00:22:55.69
I had never
experienced in a family before.
00:22:55.73\00:22:58.31
I have spent all the years
since then, not only trying
00:22:58.35\00:23:01.92
to please God, but making
sure I was keeping my promises
00:23:01.95\00:23:05.49
to her dad
because I owe him a lot.
00:23:05.52\00:23:07.15
He raised a great daughter
and I had made a promise.
00:23:07.19\00:23:10.51
That is absolutely powerful
when I think about how our
00:23:10.55\00:23:14.47
words mean something, his
words changed things for you.
00:23:14.50\00:23:18.39
Yes they did
change things, totally.
00:23:18.43\00:23:21.52
It was wonderful
that is all I can say.
00:23:21.56\00:23:24.58
You know Brenda, when all
this started coming out as far
00:23:24.62\00:23:28.29
as Fred's addictions, his
difficulty with porn and his
00:23:28.33\00:23:31.67
history of all that, how
did that come out, and what did
00:23:31.71\00:23:35.02
you think, what did you do?
00:23:35.05\00:23:36.80
As I said earlier, I was
very, very, very naive about men
00:23:36.84\00:23:40.79
and sexuality at how different
they are from we women.
00:23:40.82\00:23:44.66
I remember him explaining
some things to me and honestly
00:23:44.70\00:23:48.50
I thought he was making it up
00:23:48.54\00:23:50.40
I laughed, and I said you
have to be making this up,
00:23:50.44\00:23:53.02
it's just too weird. Cheri:
because he came and told you.
00:23:53.05\00:23:55.41
He told me about the struggles
that he had been having.
00:23:55.44\00:23:57.80
He was explaining to me
some of the ways the men are
00:23:57.84\00:24:00.46
different from women and
how they can just look at
00:24:00.50\00:24:03.10
something and have sexual
gratification just through
00:24:03.14\00:24:06.35
looking, you don't have
to have any intimacy from it.
00:24:06.39\00:24:09.54
I honestly with, different
things he'd tell me, think that
00:24:09.57\00:24:13.27
you men are all in a conspiracy,
probably just all agreed
00:24:13.31\00:24:16.98
this can't possibly be true.
00:24:17.01\00:24:19.00
It was so different
from what I understood.
00:24:19.04\00:24:21.32
I had to learn quite a
lot on the differences between
00:24:21.36\00:24:26.91
men and women, this
type of betrayal for women
00:24:26.95\00:24:30.26
is extremely painful.
00:24:30.30\00:24:32.06
It would be like, although he
did not have an affair, it still
00:24:32.09\00:24:36.29
feels the same to women
because we are so relational.
00:24:36.33\00:24:39.64
Men are different, they
can be involved in pornography
00:24:39.67\00:24:42.67
or other things without
necessarily affecting the love
00:24:42.71\00:24:45.67
they have for their wives.
00:24:45.71\00:24:46.91
Cheri: in their mind
they're not cheating on you.
00:24:46.94\00:24:49.90
Brenda: right, right, we
one time met a man and was
00:24:49.94\00:24:52.86
talking to him, I
thought this illustrates it.
00:24:52.90\00:24:55.18
He was telling us about a
friend of his that had been
00:24:55.22\00:24:57.69
involved in pornography
and his wife was going to leave
00:24:57.72\00:25:00.31
him, he said what was the
matter, all he was doing was
00:25:00.35\00:25:02.90
looking at porn,
what was the big deal?
00:25:02.94\00:25:04.76
I could just see, this
was it, we are so far apart in
00:25:04.80\00:25:07.80
understanding
of the differences.
00:25:07.83\00:25:09.79
For women to be able to
heal and recover from something
00:25:11.47\00:25:14.38
like this, we have to
learn how men are wired.
00:25:14.42\00:25:17.44
How they are different from us.
00:25:17.47\00:25:18.44
Many times this behavior is
caused by problems in the past.
00:25:18.47\00:25:23.55
Wounds may be from a
father that didn't accept them.
00:25:23.59\00:25:27.02
Their looking for intimacy some
where else and this comes in
00:25:27.06\00:25:29.32
as a false type of intimacy.
00:25:29.36\00:25:31.51
When you even say to him,
when Fred said earlier that
00:25:31.55\00:25:35.56
he was not sexually
abused, there was a part of me
00:25:35.60\00:25:39.54
that wanted to say, that
is not true because at 6 years
00:25:39.58\00:25:42.53
old, when you opened up
that magazine, that was so
00:25:42.57\00:25:45.43
abusive that it changed
the everyday walk of his life
00:25:45.47\00:25:48.30
for years after that.
00:25:48.34\00:25:49.88
And I think we think of
sexual abuse as being molested,
00:25:49.91\00:25:53.23
touched or whatever, not as
leaving a magazine somewhere
00:25:53.26\00:25:56.54
were child can see it.
00:25:56.58\00:25:57.87
The abuse was there as a child.
00:25:57.90\00:25:59.78
Brenda: I think sometimes
we women are not as well
00:25:59.81\00:26:02.34
educated and we may tend
to think that they have a big
00:26:02.37\00:26:04.87
choice in this, and
they are choosing to do this,
00:26:04.90\00:26:07.22
without realizing that there
is an addictive tendency here
00:26:07.25\00:26:10.21
It's not necessarily
about me, it may be something
00:26:10.24\00:26:13.31
he was addicted into
long before I ever came along,
00:26:13.35\00:26:16.38
which is what I found out.
00:26:16.42\00:26:17.71
Cheri: so you never, you
didn't go, and I'm thinking
00:26:17.75\00:26:21.03
into feeling depressed, you
didn't think is the marriage
00:26:21.06\00:26:24.30
going to survive or not,
none of that came up for you?
00:26:24.34\00:26:27.87
Well in my case no, because
when I found out about it,
00:26:27.90\00:26:31.40
he was already
well working through it.
00:26:31.43\00:26:33.63
Again I was so naive
that I didn't really think
00:26:33.67\00:26:38.13
onto the next step.
00:26:38.17\00:26:39.62
Fred: it was really a
naive situation for her
00:26:39.65\00:26:42.50
because she had no
idea how my sexual sin was
00:26:42.53\00:26:45.34
affecting our relationship.
00:26:45.38\00:26:48.15
I had mentioned in the
last program about the dreams
00:26:48.18\00:26:51.44
and being chased by Satan
a lot, she had no idea how
00:26:51.47\00:26:54.69
that related to this.
00:26:54.73\00:26:56.56
She had no idea it was affecting
our relationship, or that it
00:26:56.59\00:27:00.55
would have some impact on our,
son, so since she didn't know
00:27:00.59\00:27:05.01
that, in some ways I did get
a pass on it because she never
00:27:05.05\00:27:09.44
really panicked that much.
00:27:09.47\00:27:11.02
Now it also helped that I
had already started fighting the
00:27:11.06\00:27:14.00
battle, it's one thing.
00:27:14.03\00:27:15.68
Cheri: how did you come
out of that, because it don't
00:27:15.71\00:27:17.75
think we ever talked about that,
00:27:17.79\00:27:18.76
how did you come out of
that, and decide to just do it?
00:27:18.77\00:27:21.56
I'm going to change?
00:27:21.59\00:27:23.10
We talked a little bit about the
Maury Hill moment where I was
00:27:23.14\00:27:26.38
driving the road and slammed
my fist into the steering
00:27:26.41\00:27:28.99
wheel, I'm just done with this.
00:27:29.03\00:27:30.66
Well in the aftermath of
that then the Lord began to
00:27:30.69\00:27:33.83
take things I had learned
years ago in school and began
00:27:33.86\00:27:37.20
to show me, look what you
know about male sexuality,
00:27:37.23\00:27:40.50
remember what you learned at
Stanford, this applies to the
00:27:40.53\00:27:45.53
covenant of the eyes.
00:27:45.57\00:27:46.58
One of the things I learned
at Stanford for instance,
00:27:46.61\00:27:49.42
even as far back as the
50s, we knew that when men
00:27:49.46\00:27:51.92
would look at pornography
they could draw direct
00:27:51.95\00:27:54.38
sexual
gratification into their brains.
00:27:54.42\00:27:56.64
What the Lord was telling
me, this is why you need a
00:27:56.67\00:27:59.35
covenant with your eyes,
because if you are going to be
00:27:59.38\00:28:02.02
looking at the sensual
things in your environment,
00:28:02.06\00:28:04.04
that is a lot like sex itself.
00:28:04.08\00:28:08.51
It's pouring it into the
brain the same things that
00:28:08.55\00:28:11.73
are going on chemically
in your brain when we look at
00:28:11.77\00:28:14.69
something, same things
that are going on when we are
00:28:14.72\00:28:17.61
in bed with a wife.
00:28:17.64\00:28:18.92
So over time I got to
know the names of the chemicals
00:28:18.96\00:28:23.49
involved, the adrenaline,
and the dopamine and all the
00:28:23.52\00:28:28.02
other drugs that hit
the pleasure centers when
00:28:28.06\00:28:29.96
we are looking and lusting.
00:28:29.99\00:28:31.61
Cheri: a lot of people
don't know that, if you actually
00:28:31.64\00:28:34.29
did a Pet Scan,
your brain is lit up.
00:28:34.32\00:28:36.80
Fred: it's lit up in a
big way, and the other thing
00:28:36.84\00:28:39.36
a lot of people
don't know, in fact this is
00:28:39.39\00:28:40.88
just a recent discovery.
00:28:40.92\00:28:42.16
Is that the male part of the
lymphatic center is tied in with
00:28:42.19\00:28:46.42
sexual pleasure, it's
actually twice as large in men
00:28:46.46\00:28:49.08
as it is in women.
00:28:49.11\00:28:50.80
One thing we know that it
tells us that men and women
00:28:50.83\00:28:53.79
are going to be different
because there is far more part
00:28:53.83\00:28:56.75
of the brain involved with it.
00:28:56.78\00:28:58.37
The main issued to me
when I think about that is,
00:28:58.40\00:29:01.06
that is probably the reason
we are more visual and why
00:29:01.10\00:29:05.32
there is a
difference between us by nature.
00:29:05.36\00:29:07.61
When it came back to the
very beginning, all I knew is
00:29:07.65\00:29:10.58
that the Lord was telling
me look, if you want to win
00:29:10.62\00:29:13.46
this battle, a covenant
has to be in place where you
00:29:13.49\00:29:16.13
are not looking at the
girl in the string bikini,
00:29:16.17\00:29:18.77
you are not looking
at the receptionist when
00:29:18.81\00:29:21.65
she bends over at the office.
00:29:21.69\00:29:23.26
You need to begin to live
the way I tell you to live
00:29:23.29\00:29:26.50
and that is to keep your
eyes straight ahead where
00:29:26.53\00:29:29.71
they are supposed to be.
00:29:29.74\00:29:30.95
Cheri: and you know what I
like because I have heard you
00:29:30.98\00:29:33.94
say this before is that if
I, and you guys always talk
00:29:33.97\00:29:36.84
about men in their addictions,
women have some stuff so.
00:29:36.88\00:29:39.72
As you look at something
and it starts to draw you,
00:29:39.75\00:29:43.82
pull your eyes away from that.
00:29:43.86\00:29:46.27
We call that in the book,
bouncing the eyes, it's in the
00:29:46.30\00:29:48.79
book, 'Every Man's
Battle' my first book.
00:29:48.82\00:29:50.62
It's natural for a man's
eyes to turn and look towards
00:29:50.66\00:29:54.71
the sensual woman
walking into the room.
00:29:54.75\00:29:57.22
That is the natural thing.
00:29:57.26\00:29:58.27
I remember my son, a few
years ago, went to a mall with
00:29:58.30\00:30:01.69
Brenda and his sisters.
00:30:01.73\00:30:04.10
Brenda: he was nine or 10.
00:30:04.14\00:30:06.44
Fred: I think he was 11 at
the time, as I recall anyway.
00:30:06.47\00:30:09.88
Anyway, one thing we know
it was before puberty and he
00:30:09.91\00:30:13.28
would have known a
girl from a bale of hay.
00:30:13.32\00:30:14.75
I mean he just wasn't, but
when they came back from the
00:30:14.79\00:30:19.54
mall an
interesting thing happened.
00:30:19.58\00:30:21.47
He gave Brenda a hug and
then he asked her a question.
00:30:21.50\00:30:24.80
He said, mom how do you
get pictures of women in their
00:30:24.84\00:30:28.11
underwear out of your brain?
00:30:28.14\00:30:30.32
Brenda: I said go ask your dad.
00:30:30.36\00:30:32.51
Everyone's laughing!
00:30:32.54\00:30:34.55
I back-peddled fast.
00:30:34.58\00:30:36.51
Before she sent him down,
she said what kinds of pictures
00:30:36.55\00:30:40.19
are you talking about?
00:30:40.22\00:30:41.51
He said well we were walking
down the mall today and we
00:30:41.55\00:30:45.30
went by the secret store,
which is that's the Victoria's
00:30:45.33\00:30:49.05
Secret lingerie store.
00:30:49.08\00:30:50.43
He said I looked into the
window and from the moment
00:30:50.46\00:30:52.89
I looked into the window
I have not been able to get
00:30:52.93\00:30:55.33
those pictures out
of my mind all day.
00:30:55.36\00:30:57.65
And if you look at how
the male brain is wired,
00:30:57.68\00:30:59.94
and actually the female
brain can be trained this way.
00:30:59.98\00:31:03.63
There is a chemical
release and Mary Anne Layden,
00:31:03.67\00:31:07.50
who is one of the foremost
psychiatrist, psychologist
00:31:07.53\00:31:11.33
that are studying
male sexuality in America.
00:31:11.36\00:31:13.56
She is from the
University of Pennsylvania.
00:31:13.59\00:31:15.72
She made this statement
recently that once that happens
00:31:15.75\00:31:19.28
in the chemicals hit the brain
it locks that image into the
00:31:19.32\00:31:22.75
brain for ever, and that
was Michael's first experience
00:31:22.79\00:31:26.19
of that maleness
of his sexuality.
00:31:26.22\00:31:29.01
We need to understand
that that is a very real issue.
00:31:29.05\00:31:32.01
One of the things that
Brenda is saying, when women
00:31:32.05\00:31:34.95
to learn these things is
that you can imagine that has a
00:31:34.98\00:31:38.67
big impact, if you have a
young man that is growing up.
00:31:38.71\00:31:42.11
He was 11 at the time and
now he is 15, he's been through
00:31:42.15\00:31:45.44
puberty, if there was no
one around teaching him what to
00:31:45.47\00:31:48.92
do, no one around to ask
that question, what's going to
00:31:48.95\00:31:52.04
happen to that young man in
a sensual culture like ours?
00:31:52.07\00:31:54.76
It's almost guaranteed he
is going to get hooked because
00:31:54.80\00:31:57.45
there is so much
sexuality around.
00:31:57.48\00:31:59.08
What I say is not only do
the women need to learn these
00:31:59.12\00:32:02.71
differences, but even the
church needs to begin speaking
00:32:02.75\00:32:06.54
about this more because
otherwise a young Christian man,
00:32:06.58\00:32:10.82
or any kind of man Christian,
Jewish, any kind of man is
00:32:10.86\00:32:15.32
going to fall off that cliff
into the pit before he even
00:32:15.35\00:32:19.78
knows what he is doing.
00:32:19.81\00:32:21.30
I would like your guys
because you have spent so much
00:32:21.33\00:32:24.10
time in your healing,
first of all talk about,
00:32:24.13\00:32:28.33
the show is about repentance
and taking responsibility
00:32:28.36\00:32:31.74
for yourself and
bringing this to Christ.
00:32:31.78\00:32:34.52
So talk a little bit about
repentance and then talk about
00:32:34.56\00:32:37.33
what are some things you
learned and maybe even that you
00:32:37.37\00:32:40.11
put in your book,
Brenda, 'Every Heart Restored',
00:32:40.14\00:32:43.28
as far as what women can do
and learn when you talk about
00:32:43.31\00:32:47.23
whether sex chillers.
00:32:47.26\00:32:50.30
I want to hear
about all the because
00:32:50.34\00:32:52.86
I don't know anything.
00:32:52.90\00:32:54.10
Brenda: I would say just
quickly and then give it back to
00:32:54.13\00:32:57.29
you here, that one of the
main things that I have learned
00:32:57.33\00:33:01.33
about women being able to
be restored and set free in
00:33:01.37\00:33:04.81
a problem like this, is
number one what we have been
00:33:04.84\00:33:07.56
talking about, educate
yourself on the differences
00:33:07.60\00:33:10.48
because then you can
maybe begin to have mercy and
00:33:10.52\00:33:13.34
understanding that this is
not just simply a deliberate
00:33:13.37\00:33:16.84
choice, there is addiction here.
00:33:16.87\00:33:18.04
The other thing is the
spiritual aspect of it.
00:33:18.08\00:33:21.88
There has to be more
transformation in your heart
00:33:21.92\00:33:25.89
because your emotions
and self-esteem are shattered
00:33:25.92\00:33:29.86
with something like this.
00:33:29.89\00:33:31.03
You have to be able to rebuild
yourself in a healthy way,
00:33:31.07\00:33:35.87
as God sees you, so often
we feel worthless after this
00:33:35.90\00:33:40.67
type of thing and what
I found was really good.
00:33:40.70\00:33:44.16
Was to begin to pour
Scripture into my life.
00:33:44.20\00:33:47.59
I would take Psalms 139
and begin to just read that
00:33:47.63\00:33:52.74
a couple of times a day, pick it
apart and see what it means to
00:33:52.77\00:33:55.70
me in a drastic, painful,
hard time that Scripture talks
00:33:55.74\00:33:59.11
all the way through
about how well God knows you.
00:33:59.15\00:34:01.77
How you are
never out of His sight.
00:34:01.81\00:34:03.86
There is no
darkness that is dark to Him.
00:34:03.89\00:34:05.84
You talk about darkness,
you know that it's a dark place.
00:34:05.87\00:34:09.37
Cheri: it's interesting to
me when you are in this spot
00:34:11.49\00:34:15.47
Scripture becomes more real.
00:34:15.50\00:34:17.47
Brenda: you must have
it, it's the only thing
00:34:17.51\00:34:19.88
because it transforms
your mind, it transforms
00:34:19.92\00:34:22.42
how you feel about
yourself, and it transforms
00:34:22.46\00:34:24.93
how you relate to your husband.
00:34:24.96\00:34:26.23
Verses like Hebrews
12:7 through 11, James 1:2-4
00:34:26.27\00:34:31.17
2 Corinthians 12:9, they
talk about enduring hardship
00:34:31.21\00:34:34.69
as disciplined, and the
Lord is treating you to hope
00:34:34.73\00:34:38.17
that in hard times
the Lord is still there.
00:34:38.21\00:34:40.56
He can use this time, if
you are not transforming your
00:34:40.60\00:34:43.83
mind and having Scripture
steadying you all day long,
00:34:43.87\00:34:46.81
you're going to fly off
the handle and be so upset that
00:34:46.84\00:34:49.75
you can't even
respond very well.
00:34:49.78\00:34:51.46
It strengthens you, the word,
the Holy Spirit strengthens
00:34:51.50\00:34:56.00
and allows me to be able to
look at him with God's motives
00:34:56.03\00:35:00.50
in mind more than my own.
00:35:00.53\00:35:02.15
Cheri: then say and I'm
not going to let you do this,
00:35:02.18\00:35:05.65
I'm not going to be throwing
anything on you right now,
00:35:05.69\00:35:09.12
I'm actually
going to be your wife.
00:35:09.16\00:35:10.60
Fred: there's a couple
things I would say to about the
00:35:10.64\00:35:14.03
word, a lot times we look
at the word and we say okay,
00:35:14.06\00:35:17.76
this is how we are supposed
to act so I'm going to conform
00:35:17.80\00:35:21.46
to the word and live
according to what it says.
00:35:21.50\00:35:23.87
But the word also does
something that transforms us,
00:35:23.91\00:35:27.14
it is the power of
the word that does that.
00:35:27.18\00:35:29.38
Transformation is better
than conforming because what it
00:35:29.41\00:35:32.60
does is it comes into your
life and gives you the mind of
00:35:32.63\00:35:35.80
Christ so that you start
thinking about your sexuality,
00:35:35.84\00:35:38.68
like Christ thought about
His for instance, when He was
00:35:38.72\00:35:42.34
on earth, and even the
temptations that are involved,
00:35:42.37\00:35:45.96
for instance for
me start to dissipate.
00:35:46.00\00:35:48.65
A lot of people say you
always so have these temptations
00:35:48.69\00:35:52.34
as long as you are
alive because you're a guy.
00:35:52.37\00:35:54.20
Well I have not
found that to be so.
00:35:54.24\00:35:55.94
What I have found is that
as the word comes into my life
00:35:55.98\00:35:59.73
and transforms me, I
begin to see my sexuality,
00:35:59.77\00:36:02.53
it is actually in its proper
place and I own my sexuality
00:36:05.55\00:36:09.63
rather than it owning me.
00:36:09.67\00:36:11.10
That is a dramatic
difference but that only happens
00:36:11.13\00:36:13.24
through that transformation.
00:36:13.28\00:36:14.79
The other thing I would
say is that, when Brenda was
00:36:14.82\00:36:17.37
going through the death
of her mother a while back,
00:36:17.41\00:36:19.89
we talked a lot about how
pain is pain, whether it's from
00:36:19.92\00:36:23.38
the grief of that
death, or grief from sexual sin
00:36:23.42\00:36:26.27
throughout the
marriage, it's really a mess.
00:36:26.30\00:36:29.94
One of the things I saw in
her was the discipline she had,
00:36:29.97\00:36:33.45
she would put these Scriptures
on Post-it notes and she would
00:36:33.48\00:36:36.92
actually carry those Scriptures
with her during the day
00:36:36.96\00:36:39.02
where if she is in her car
it would be on her steering
00:36:39.05\00:36:41.04
wheel, she was in the kitchen
it would be on the window
00:36:41.07\00:36:43.17
in front of her so that
she would be reading it all day
00:36:43.20\00:36:45.57
long and she would not forget
what she read this morning
00:36:45.61\00:36:47.94
by two this afternoon.
00:36:47.97\00:36:49.46
Cheri: you know I work
with this guy that was lost in
00:36:49.50\00:36:53.07
pornography, just lost.
00:36:53.11\00:36:54.48
He said I prayed and in
my prayer God said, memorize
00:36:54.52\00:36:58.77
some Scripture and it
will wash your mind as if
00:36:58.81\00:37:03.65
you were washing out a garment.
00:37:03.69\00:37:05.31
He said I started to and
even the visual images that
00:37:05.35\00:37:08.46
have plagued him most of
his life, started to leave.
00:37:08.49\00:37:12.02
Fred: I have experienced
the same thing and people will
00:37:12.06\00:37:15.55
say, can you
remember those images?
00:37:15.59\00:37:18.13
Well there are some
images I can still remember,
00:37:18.17\00:37:21.04
they were very vivid back
then and if I tell myself to,
00:37:21.08\00:37:24.01
I can make myself pull them up.
00:37:24.04\00:37:26.39
But I choose not to, I
don't have those things
00:37:26.43\00:37:31.36
washing up all the time.
00:37:31.40\00:37:33.56
You see if those images
are in there and washing up all
00:37:33.60\00:37:36.17
the time, they can serve
the same purpose as actually
00:37:36.20\00:37:38.74
looking at a new magazine.
00:37:38.77\00:37:40.32
You can't have that, and
God does not want that, and He
00:37:40.35\00:37:42.77
will want to wash that clean.
00:37:42.80\00:37:44.12
Cheri: what is amazing to
me is that a lot people do not
00:37:44.16\00:37:46.00
understand the
process of addiction.
00:37:46.03\00:37:47.83
We end up in our various
addictions, we end up getting so
00:37:47.86\00:37:52.61
caught up with an object,
or an event, that is not real
00:37:52.65\00:37:56.28
and we are looking to meet
intimacy, or spiritual needs
00:37:56.31\00:37:59.91
with this object, or
event, with porn or whatever.
00:37:59.94\00:38:02.64
God is saying let me teach
you to do that in a real sense
00:38:02.68\00:38:06.89
and you will be blessed,
I mean you will be blessed.
00:38:06.92\00:38:09.90
I will teach you how to
laugh with a woman that you love
00:38:09.94\00:38:13.00
and have all those connections
within you and be blessed.
00:38:13.03\00:38:16.02
You will be able to trust that
God really does know what He is
00:38:16.05\00:38:19.19
doing, and I actually
will be better off as He walks
00:38:19.23\00:38:22.73
me into recovery.
00:38:22.76\00:38:24.23
You said that earlier in
the sense that this whole
00:38:24.26\00:38:28.57
recovery process is tied
that way, the intimacy thing
00:38:28.60\00:38:32.87
is very interesting to me.
00:38:32.91\00:38:34.59
You were talking about
drug addictions as well as I am
00:38:34.63\00:38:37.53
talking about sexual addictions,
well there is a man that
00:38:37.57\00:38:40.55
I know, his name is Bill
and he is the head of a drug
00:38:40.59\00:38:43.53
addiction center in Nebraska.
00:38:43.57\00:38:46.05
He told me once that just
getting genuine intimacy into
00:38:46.08\00:38:52.24
his life is the thing
that broke his addiction.
00:38:52.27\00:38:54.24
Because we know addictions
are tied to false intimacy.
00:38:54.27\00:38:57.67
What he said was this, he
noticed as he got stronger
00:38:57.71\00:39:00.47
and stronger into pornography,
he was spending less and
00:39:00.51\00:39:03.24
less time with
people, actual people.
00:39:03.27\00:39:05.22
He was drawing all his
intimacy from those false spots.
00:39:05.26\00:39:08.78
He said he simply made one
rule in his life that whenever
00:39:08.81\00:39:12.29
anybody asked him to do
anything he would say yes.
00:39:12.33\00:39:15.51
So over the period of a
month, whenever somebody asked
00:39:15.54\00:39:18.69
them to do anything, to
go out and eat, go to the
00:39:18.73\00:39:20.42
convenience store, let's
jump over there a need to get
00:39:20.45\00:39:23.01
something, he
would just say yes.
00:39:23.05\00:39:24.60
The thing is that the last
10 days of that month he said,
00:39:24.64\00:39:28.17
suddenly he realized he
had looked at porn for 10 days.
00:39:28.20\00:39:32.03
He realized it was because
he was making those connections.
00:39:32.07\00:39:35.86
I don't think people understand
the power of intimacy.
00:39:35.90\00:39:39.99
What I found in my own life
is the greatest power is not the
00:39:40.02\00:39:44.17
power saying yes to go out
to eat, or having relationships
00:39:44.21\00:39:48.28
with their brothers and sisters
in Christ, but it's the intimacy
00:39:48.32\00:39:51.74
with God, and when that gets
stronger it also helps to create
00:39:51.78\00:39:55.17
the transformation
that keeps you from sin.
00:39:55.21\00:39:57.80
Listen to this study which I
think is the most amazing thing.
00:39:57.84\00:40:01.04
I was working in the prison
and a lot of times in prison
00:40:01.08\00:40:03.86
there are perpetrators, sexual
addicts that are way out there.
00:40:03.89\00:40:09.61
There was a study that said,
if a perpetrator, a hard-core
00:40:09.65\00:40:14.21
sexual perpetrator, child
molester can connect in a real
00:40:14.24\00:40:18.83
sense with two or three people,
the percentage rate of their
00:40:18.86\00:40:23.42
acting out is cut down by 95%.
00:40:23.45\00:40:25.91
It's that connection and
then I went back to the Bible,
00:40:25.94\00:40:29.91
and the Bible says love
one another, love one another.
00:40:29.95\00:40:33.88
I thought, wow God
has always know we have to
00:40:33.92\00:40:37.28
connect with each other.
00:40:37.32\00:40:39.02
You know there is a
basketball coach at one of the
00:40:40.60\00:40:43.59
universities in Iowa, that
had to go to prison not long
00:40:43.62\00:40:47.43
ago for child pornography,
and he said to me, I had went
00:40:47.47\00:40:51.24
out eat with him, he's out now.
00:40:51.27\00:40:52.46
I had went to eat with him
a couple weeks ago and he said
00:40:52.50\00:40:56.75
that the hard part about
coming back out is that while he
00:40:56.78\00:41:01.27
was in prison he had met
a total of a hundred guys in
00:41:01.31\00:41:05.76
there in the sexual programs
to help them get over it.
00:41:05.80\00:41:09.94
But he said if he really
made connections with 3 or 4
00:41:09.97\00:41:12.70
that were really tight
connections where they shared
00:41:12.74\00:41:15.67
everything and it really
helped him to get stronger but
00:41:15.70\00:41:18.18
the moment you get out of
prison and you are not allowed
00:41:18.21\00:41:21.43
to contact those people
again for the next 3 or 4 years.
00:41:21.47\00:41:24.68
But what we're not understanding
what's below that is we
00:41:24.72\00:41:27.62
are actually shooting ourselves
in the foot, I think we
00:41:27.65\00:41:31.40
can get more these men on
the right path by making those
00:41:31.44\00:41:34.75
connections, and of course
in his case these men were
00:41:34.78\00:41:38.06
also Christian, it
has the God factor.
00:41:38.10\00:41:42.24
The God factor is everything.
00:41:42.27\00:41:44.54
I'm going to ask if there's
anybody here that wants to
00:41:44.58\00:41:47.90
ask a question of
Brenda or Fred? Can I ask you?
00:41:47.94\00:41:53.10
Fred, what about women
and their sexual addictions?
00:41:53.13\00:41:58.22
That is a great question,
the thing about women and their
00:41:58.26\00:42:01.41
sexual addictions is that
it is changing dramatically
00:42:01.44\00:42:04.53
over time, I mean men they
have had this problem for a
00:42:04.56\00:42:08.04
long time, but if you
look back into history, back in
00:42:08.07\00:42:12.03
the 70s when Hugh Hefner
brought out Playgirl magazine
00:42:12.07\00:42:15.96
eventually it went defunct and
belly up because there wasn't
00:42:15.99\00:42:19.14
that much interest for the
women to look guys that way.
00:42:19.18\00:42:22.75
But what has happen with the
MTV generation and then heavy
00:42:22.79\00:42:26.63
sensuality in Prime Time
and movies is that we are seeing
00:42:26.66\00:42:30.43
a dramatic increase
in women getting hooked
00:42:30.47\00:42:33.08
on porn for instance.
00:42:33.11\00:42:34.19
I know Christianity
today, not too long ago had a
00:42:34.23\00:42:38.06
survey of their raters
and 37% of them were regularly
00:42:38.09\00:42:41.88
looking at porn.
00:42:41.91\00:42:43.25
And when you look at
the 30 and under most of the
00:42:43.29\00:42:46.48
statistics I've seen are
generally somewhere around 50
00:42:46.52\00:42:50.13
to even 80% of women are
regularly visiting porn sites.
00:42:50.16\00:42:54.01
Things are changing in the
sense, with heavy sensuality
00:42:54.05\00:42:57.67
in our culture it is starting
to help to rewire women,
00:42:57.70\00:43:01.74
or train them to use
their visuality in the sexuality
00:43:01.77\00:43:05.04
process in ways that they
really haven't in the past.
00:43:05.08\00:43:08.37
In terms of getting free
from it, really a lot of the
00:43:08.40\00:43:11.38
principles are the same
for women as they are for men.
00:43:11.42\00:43:14.35
First of all, you would
certainly have to stop looking
00:43:14.39\00:43:17.64
at porn and stop bringing
that sensuality into the eyes.
00:43:17.67\00:43:20.89
You would also do
some of the same things,
00:43:20.93\00:43:23.97
get connected deeper with
God so there is a more genuine
00:43:24.01\00:43:27.62
intimacy in your life.
00:43:27.66\00:43:28.98
Also with friends so there's
more genuine intimacy that
00:43:29.02\00:43:32.14
way, when I talk to women
they are saying the same things,
00:43:32.18\00:43:36.03
I'm lonely, there is no man
in my life, I go to even things
00:43:36.06\00:43:39.87
like self stimulation
because it makes me feel better,
00:43:39.91\00:43:42.80
and even for a moment
anyway it feels like I'm
00:43:42.83\00:43:45.42
connecting with a guy.
00:43:45.45\00:43:47.07
And that's still an addiction,
and I'm connecting with
00:43:47.10\00:43:49.28
an event or an
object, nothing that is real.
00:43:49.32\00:43:52.46
Also what I find is
not just visual for them.
00:43:52.49\00:43:55.56
They will read a romance
novel that are pretty hot and
00:43:55.60\00:43:59.06
racy and they are being
attracted by relationship,
00:43:59.10\00:44:02.66
they are being attracted
by the relationships and the
00:44:02.69\00:44:05.91
longing for the relationship
and that's what gets their
00:44:05.95\00:44:08.93
engines going, which we
would expect from women because
00:44:08.97\00:44:11.92
that is how they're built.
00:44:11.95\00:44:13.35
Being able to say that
the bottom line is we have to
00:44:13.38\00:44:15.85
connect with each other
and go back to love one another
00:44:15.89\00:44:18.60
and those needs will be
met, if we honestly did that.
00:44:18.64\00:44:21.70
Any other questions,
Marcia did you have a question?
00:44:21.73\00:44:25.04
Yes, is there any books
or advice you have four young
00:44:25.08\00:44:28.52
girls to understand what the
young boys are going through?
00:44:28.55\00:44:31.96
Yeah, one book that
they are reading of course is
00:44:32.00\00:44:34.52
'Every Young Man's Battle'
because in that book I talk
00:44:34.55\00:44:37.75
to the young guys about
how they are built, how their
00:44:37.78\00:44:41.06
sexual makeup is, and I
get a lot of e-mails from young
00:44:41.10\00:44:44.65
women that are saying
thank you for writing this book.
00:44:44.68\00:44:48.26
Now I understand the
pressures they're going through.
00:44:48.30\00:44:51.40
I have had lots of e-mails
from teenage girls who are
00:44:51.43\00:44:54.50
saying, I have just
thrown out all my wardrobe,
00:44:54.53\00:44:56.43
I realize now the things
I wear was blowing them out.
00:44:56.47\00:45:00.47
So they start all over and
I think that is really good.
00:45:00.51\00:45:03.71
The other thing is that Shannon
Ethridge has written a book
00:45:03.74\00:45:06.92
called 'Every Young Woman's
Battle' and that is a book
00:45:06.96\00:45:10.10
that talks about
the female side of it.
00:45:10.14\00:45:11.64
I've interviewed
Shannon and she's also written
00:45:11.68\00:45:14.44
'Every Woman's Battle'
which is amazing, so all of
00:45:14.47\00:45:17.48
her material is absolutely
amazing that we do have to
00:45:17.52\00:45:20.46
educate ourselves and that
is what you were saying Brenda.
00:45:20.49\00:45:23.27
I would say to, with 'Every
Heart Restored' the one thing
00:45:23.31\00:45:26.31
I have been so pleased to hear
from people that have read it,
00:45:26.34\00:45:30.23
it's helped wives to understand
how their men are different.
00:45:30.27\00:45:34.12
It has really helped give
the men a better picture of
00:45:34.16\00:45:36.64
how wives are built, so
they are understanding better
00:45:36.67\00:45:39.12
what kind of pain it
is causing in their lives.
00:45:39.16\00:45:40.97
A lot of times they will write
to us say, I wasn't able to
00:45:41.00\00:45:44.84
explain well enough how I
felt, but the book explains it
00:45:44.87\00:45:48.67
so well that
they read it together.
00:45:48.71\00:45:50.48
They are both getting
a good picture from each
00:45:50.52\00:45:53.56
other of their
differences and how that sin
00:45:53.59\00:45:56.60
is affecting each other.
00:45:56.63\00:45:57.88
'Every Heart Restored' I
first wrote it with Brenda and
00:45:57.92\00:46:03.49
guess the publisher
at first was wondering,
00:46:03.53\00:46:05.50
why you have nine chapters
on male sexuality in the middle
00:46:05.54\00:46:08.95
of this book for women?
00:46:08.98\00:46:10.58
Really it is the
key healing factor.
00:46:10.61\00:46:14.39
If they do not understand
how men are built, they are
00:46:14.43\00:46:17.08
never going to be able to
understand it is not their
00:46:17.12\00:46:19.44
problem is actually the
guys problem and they can
00:46:19.48\00:46:21.77
actually step up
next to them and help.
00:46:21.81\00:46:23.87
I love the fact that they
are reading it as couples.
00:46:23.90\00:46:27.58
That is really how you
have to approach this battle as
00:46:27.62\00:46:31.26
couples, at least that
is the most effective way.
00:46:31.30\00:46:33.39
What you are trying to achieve
is a match made in heaven, this
00:46:35.29\00:46:39.16
powerful unit, a man and wife
living holy together, that is
00:46:39.20\00:46:43.03
what you are aiming
at, and that is what God
00:46:43.07\00:46:44.99
intended from the beginning.
00:46:45.03\00:46:46.78
You know what I would like
to ask is, I would like to ask
00:46:46.82\00:46:50.21
you, what are some really
healthy things that you have
00:46:50.24\00:46:53.16
learned to incorporate into
your marriage that has helped
00:46:53.19\00:46:56.08
you in your recovery?
00:46:56.11\00:46:57.56
Well I think one of the
best things is for me to walk
00:46:57.60\00:47:03.10
in Ephesians 5:3 which
is don't even have a hint of
00:47:03.14\00:47:08.61
sexual immorality in your life.
00:47:08.64\00:47:10.27
That means I need to
really guard my eyes.
00:47:10.31\00:47:13.77
Cheri: that's
movies, commercials, books,
00:47:13.81\00:47:17.20
Fred: one of the nice
things is that Brenda has always
00:47:17.24\00:47:21.45
believed that anyway, but
she has been, and as a unit
00:47:21.49\00:47:25.81
we have done this strongly
so in our home, my boys for
00:47:25.84\00:47:29.09
instance, learn how to
bounce their eyes without me
00:47:29.13\00:47:32.34
actually ever
explaining it to them.
00:47:32.37\00:47:33.70
They would see me watching
a game, a commercial with some
00:47:33.73\00:47:36.42
of those babes would come
on, I would bounce my eyes away
00:47:36.45\00:47:39.17
and groan and they learned
to bounce their eyes away and
00:47:39.21\00:47:43.93
groan too, and so over time
they began to learn from the
00:47:43.97\00:47:48.66
example, so the first
thing is to walk in it.
00:47:48.69\00:47:51.44
Fred and I have taught
pre-marriage classes for years,
00:47:51.47\00:47:54.69
one of the most important
things we tell those young
00:47:54.73\00:47:57.88
couples is, if you will guard
all that you watch, get rid
00:47:57.92\00:48:01.92
of some of its primetime
TV, get rid of a lot of the
00:48:01.96\00:48:04.93
movies that have inappropriate,
get rid of all that stuff,
00:48:04.96\00:48:07.26
you will find yourself to
have a very healthy, happy,
00:48:07.30\00:48:10.07
intimate
relationship with your spouse.
00:48:10.11\00:48:13.85
It is very simple but very
fulfilling and is everything
00:48:13.88\00:48:17.86
God gave it to be, it requires
nothing except getting rid
00:48:17.89\00:48:21.83
of that and you'll be
happy with each other.
00:48:21.87\00:48:23.39
Fred: that's praise right
there because most people see
00:48:23.43\00:48:26.60
that is a big sacrifice,
but in the end there is no
00:48:26.63\00:48:29.74
sacrifice to it because we find
all sorts of things to do anyway
00:48:29.77\00:48:33.62
It's not like you have
to be watching those things.
00:48:33.65\00:48:36.36
The best part though
from a relational standpoint,
00:48:36.39\00:48:40.21
is that you begin to start
meeting in bed spiritually,
00:48:40.25\00:48:44.03
not just physically.
00:48:44.06\00:48:45.03
You know what I was stuck
in sexual sin, it's sin and
00:48:45.04\00:48:48.40
even though I couldn't
see the wall between us, even
00:48:48.43\00:48:51.44
though it was not noticeable
to Brenda, there was a wall
00:48:51.47\00:48:54.44
between us and the Spirit realm.
00:48:54.48\00:48:55.83
One of the first things
I noticed on the other side
00:48:55.87\00:48:58.28
of purity, our
times in the marriage bed
00:48:58.32\00:49:02.89
were dramatically different
and it was because, I believe,
00:49:02.92\00:49:06.04
that our spirits were meeting
in ways they weren't meeting
00:49:06.08\00:49:09.89
before and so what happened
was I started to be focusing
00:49:09.92\00:49:13.32
less on things like how
it does it feel, and what the
00:49:13.35\00:49:16.43
intensity levels were,
whatever you might say and I was
00:49:16.47\00:49:19.73
entirely focused on the
passage of the intimacy between
00:49:19.77\00:49:23.20
us, and how we were connecting
one on one on more of a
00:49:23.24\00:49:26.64
one of emotional
and spiritual level.
00:49:26.67\00:49:29.19
Cheri: don't you think that,
I really picture, sometimes,
00:49:29.23\00:49:32.87
God up there saying, I can't
wait for you guys to trust Me
00:49:32.91\00:49:36.51
enough that I
can teach you this.
00:49:36.55\00:49:38.26
You will not believe how
cool your sexual life or your
00:49:38.30\00:49:42.34
intimacy is going to
be, but you have to let Me
00:49:42.38\00:49:44.91
teach you how to do it.
00:49:44.95\00:49:45.96
Fred: we grow up learning
about sex in locker rooms.
00:49:46.00\00:49:49.87
From friends at slumber
parties and all these sorts of
00:49:49.90\00:49:53.70
things, so we buy into all the
lies that the American culture
00:49:53.73\00:49:57.40
or any other culture
might paint for us which is that
00:49:57.43\00:50:01.58
we are, the more we take
part in porn or we take part
00:50:01.61\00:50:06.25
in these racy movies, but
more hot things are for us,
00:50:06.28\00:50:10.88
the more smooth
things go for us,
00:50:10.91\00:50:13.44
in my experience it's the
opposite, once you dump all
00:50:13.47\00:50:17.37
those things out, everything
about the sexual process between
00:50:17.40\00:50:21.46
a husband and wife smoothes out.
00:50:21.50\00:50:23.19
I find it has been one of
the great gifts and one of the
00:50:24.74\00:50:27.71
great blessings when
you asked the question,
00:50:27.75\00:50:30.12
what things have you put
in place, that is one thing we
00:50:30.15\00:50:34.55
put into place by taking
only sensuality out of our home
00:50:34.58\00:50:38.59
and then that makes our intimate
life stronger, which then
00:50:38.63\00:50:42.47
makes our relationship stronger,
and makes me less likely
00:50:42.50\00:50:46.31
to want to act out or do
something silly like that.
00:50:46.34\00:50:49.09
So it starts to strengthen
you and starts to spiral you in
00:50:49.12\00:50:52.73
a good direction
instead of a bad direction.
00:50:52.77\00:50:54.79
We have a couple minutes
and there was a term that I saw,
00:50:54.83\00:50:57.69
I think it was
in your book Brenda.
00:50:57.72\00:50:59.86
About sex chillers, what
is that? What does that mean?
00:50:59.89\00:51:03.60
It refers about the differences
between men and women
00:51:03.63\00:51:07.26
and some of the things in
men that chills the whole sexual
00:51:07.30\00:51:10.81
deal for the wife.
00:51:10.85\00:51:12.43
Some of the things we are
that chills our women would be,
00:51:12.46\00:51:16.78
first of all we're
very rebellious by nature.
00:51:16.81\00:51:21.32
Men tend to like to go
their own way, and they tend
00:51:21.35\00:51:24.46
to go the easy way
instead of God's way.
00:51:24.49\00:51:27.76
Because women are so
global in their thinking,
00:51:27.80\00:51:30.90
and relationship is so
involved with their sexuality,
00:51:30.93\00:51:34.32
that hurts the relationship
so that hurts the sex life.
00:51:34.35\00:51:38.63
There are some other chillers,
for instance less romantic
00:51:38.67\00:51:42.97
once marriage happens, where
romantic as were moving towards
00:51:43.01\00:51:46.57
marriage but on the other
side it's we get in the back of
00:51:46.61\00:51:50.14
the wagon for a
nap so you drive.
00:51:50.17\00:51:53.82
The whole love relationship
thing is not our focus anymore.
00:51:53.85\00:51:59.24
There are other ones,
there are two but the point we
00:51:59.27\00:52:03.76
are making with the whole
sex chillers section, is there
00:52:03.79\00:52:08.24
are differences that a
man needs to understand.
00:52:08.27\00:52:11.96
You see one understand
those chillers, I can stop doing
00:52:12.00\00:52:15.99
them, I don't
have to be rebellious.
00:52:16.03\00:52:19.05
I don't have to
be cold romantically.
00:52:19.08\00:52:22.03
I can start to work on
those things, but the best thing
00:52:22.07\00:52:25.39
for Brenda is that when
she sees those things are a
00:52:25.43\00:52:28.79
natural part of who we
are, she can understand those to
00:52:28.82\00:52:32.15
work with me as well.
00:52:32.18\00:52:33.85
We have a couple minutes,
in a couple minutes talk about
00:52:33.89\00:52:38.68
talk to somebody that is
struggling, I don't know how to
00:52:38.71\00:52:43.47
get out of this, I
don't how to change.
00:52:43.51\00:52:45.42
A wife maybe that is
saying this is killing me,
00:52:45.45\00:52:49.08
I don't know if I
could trust him again.
00:52:49.12\00:52:51.27
Brenda: I think for wives
one of the hardest things is
00:52:55.52\00:52:57.84
that sometimes you have a
husband that is very committed
00:52:57.87\00:53:01.57
to wanting to change, by then
you are fighting a different
00:53:01.60\00:53:05.20
battle and it's not his
battle to be clean, so to speak,
00:53:05.24\00:53:08.80
it's her battle
to trust him again.
00:53:08.84\00:53:10.99
That is a real tough thing
because he is feeling like,
00:53:11.03\00:53:13.79
oh boy I've never valued
my marriage more, and she's
00:53:13.82\00:53:16.23
saying, oh boy! you've
been living a lie forever.
00:53:16.27\00:53:18.61
Their seeing from totally
opposite, he's saying, oh gee!
00:53:18.65\00:53:21.52
it's going to take three
years to recover but I think
00:53:21.56\00:53:24.39
I can do it a little faster.
00:53:24.43\00:53:25.41
She is saying, well
that sounds like forever.
00:53:25.45\00:53:27.65
So learning to trust is
very difficult, your having to
00:53:29.89\00:53:32.83
watch your husband to see
if he is having trustworthy
00:53:32.86\00:53:35.85
acts, is he doing things,
is he asking me things of what
00:53:35.89\00:53:38.84
to do to prove to you
that I am trustworthy again.
00:53:38.88\00:53:41.43
One of the main things
that we look for as wives is
00:53:41.47\00:53:43.99
his patience as
we heal and recover.
00:53:44.02\00:53:46.36
His patience is a deep indicator
of his understanding of
00:53:46.40\00:53:51.01
the hurt and pain
that he has caused.
00:53:51.04\00:53:53.63
Another indicator
is actual repentance.
00:53:53.66\00:53:56.18
If he is impatient with
her healing, he hasn't really
00:53:56.21\00:54:01.10
seen what he has done.
00:54:01.14\00:54:03.10
I just want to say that I
have been blessed, I've been
00:54:03.13\00:54:05.53
so blessed and I
thank you for joining us.
00:54:05.57\00:54:07.16
Thank you for sharing
with us on your whole journey.
00:54:07.20\00:54:10.50
This is a really touchy subject,
but I'm just blessed, and
00:54:10.54\00:54:14.65
I know that anybody watching
this has been blessed too.
00:54:14.68\00:54:18.76
Stay with us,
will be right back!
00:54:18.79\00:54:20.58
Amazing stories of real
people in real situations
00:54:25.24\00:54:28.78
discussing issues
that really matter.
00:54:28.82\00:54:30.91
The complete first season
of Celebrating Life In Recovery
00:54:30.94\00:54:34.35
is now available on DVD and
can be ordered by calling 3ABN:
00:54:34.38\00:54:37.75
Or order online at:
00:54:37.79\00:54:40.51
Hosted by Cheri Peters
this season follows principles
00:54:40.54\00:54:43.37
from the book 'Steps to Christ'.
00:54:43.40\00:54:45.08
See for yourself, how
God changed the lives of the
00:54:45.11\00:54:47.42
convicted, the accused,
and victims of terrible crimes.
00:54:47.45\00:54:50.37
You won't want to miss a moment
of these powerful interviews.
00:54:50.40\00:54:53.33
God is good to us.
00:55:00.03\00:55:01.25
I finally had to see that I have
a choice to continue in my sin,
00:55:01.28\00:55:06.04
hurt, anger, addiction,
or to repent, a gift from God
00:55:06.07\00:55:09.60
that brings with it life.
00:55:09.64\00:55:11.13
How can a man be just with God?
00:55:11.17\00:55:12.70
How can those lost in
an addiction be made right?
00:55:12.74\00:55:15.28
The Bible says it is only
through Christ that we can be
00:55:15.32\00:55:18.09
brought into harmony
with God to holiness.
00:55:18.13\00:55:20.49
But how, let's look at Acts
on the day of Pentecost when
00:55:20.53\00:55:24.00
convictions of their sins
came out on the folks, they
00:55:24.04\00:55:27.47
said what do I have to do?
00:55:27.51\00:55:29.03
Peter said to them
repent and another time in Acts
00:55:29.07\00:55:32.22
he said, repent and
be converted that your
00:55:32.25\00:55:34.20
sins may be blotted out.
00:55:34.24\00:55:35.76
The book of Acts as people
started to see their need,
00:55:35.80\00:55:39.41
the most incredible gift
God offers us is the ability
00:55:39.44\00:55:42.85
to see ourselves, as we
truly are, and without that we
00:55:42.88\00:55:45.78
would not even seek healing,
so it is an important part
00:55:45.81\00:55:48.67
of recovery,
regardless of your stuff.
00:55:48.71\00:55:50.55
Look at it, don't be
afraid to fully look at it.
00:55:50.58\00:55:53.48
It is painful for sure,
and I know it's painful.
00:55:53.51\00:55:56.15
Everything in me
wants to rebel against that.
00:55:56.18\00:55:58.49
I don't want to see
my character defects.
00:55:58.52\00:56:00.76
I don't want to see the fact
that I'm lost in this or that
00:56:00.79\00:56:03.64
or that I have workaholism
or perfectionism, or like
00:56:03.67\00:56:06.98
Fred and Brenda are talking
about how their life was being
00:56:07.01\00:56:09.85
destroyed, about sexual sins
that had been with him since
00:56:09.88\00:56:12.68
he was 6 years old.
00:56:12.71\00:56:13.68
I don't want to see any of
that, but it is a necessary
00:56:13.69\00:56:16.17
part of healing, would you
go to the doctor if there was
00:56:16.20\00:56:18.77
nothing wrong? No! But
if you have a little pain in
00:56:18.80\00:56:20.75
your chest and Heh, I'm there.
00:56:20.79\00:56:22.10
If this is emotional pain, and
God is a great physician, repent
00:56:22.14\00:56:27.11
it includes sorrow for
sin and turning away from it.
00:56:27.15\00:56:30.11
We will not stop our addictions
no matter what they are
00:56:30.15\00:56:33.07
unless we see
the ugliness of them.
00:56:33.11\00:56:35.01
It's sinfulness, until we
turn away from it in our heart,
00:56:35.04\00:56:38.62
and there will be no
real change in our life.
00:56:38.66\00:56:40.52
There are so many who
don't understand the nature of
00:56:40.56\00:56:44.12
repentance, so many feel
sorrow that they have sin,
00:56:44.15\00:56:47.64
and even made an outward
change because they feared that
00:56:47.68\00:56:51.05
they might get caught
or in trouble or what ever.
00:56:51.08\00:56:53.92
If anyone knew about
this it becomes scary as their
00:56:53.95\00:56:56.71
addiction takes over,
but this is not repentance.
00:56:56.74\00:56:59.42
In the Bible sense they fear
the suffering not the addiction
00:56:59.46\00:57:02.62
as sin, in fact many
protect their addiction as if
00:57:02.66\00:57:06.33
it were their friend.
00:57:06.37\00:57:07.36
Even their lover, something
that could bring comfort
00:57:07.39\00:57:10.72
for an escape, not realizing
it brings slavery and death.
00:57:10.76\00:57:14.36
When an addict, rageaholic,
sex offender, what ever fears
00:57:14.40\00:57:17.62
the loss, their spouse is
going, leave them, they face
00:57:17.65\00:57:20.83
jail time and all that stuff.
00:57:20.87\00:57:23.14
They settled back into a
normal thing as soon as that
00:57:23.18\00:57:26.08
repentance feeling
ends, that is not repentance.
00:57:26.12\00:57:29.53
Repentance is when I look
at it and I understand what God
00:57:29.57\00:57:33.76
says, I understand
that this is not right.
00:57:33.79\00:57:36.65
I understand that:
00:57:36.68\00:57:38.04
and when you get there
and surrender it to God,
00:57:43.88\00:57:47.12
God will fill you up and your
life will never be the same.
00:57:47.15\00:57:50.59
It will never be the same,
He wants to give us joy and
00:57:50.63\00:57:53.70
life abundantly and I just
ask you to please trust Him.
00:57:53.73\00:57:56.76
Please trust Him.
00:57:56.80\00:57:58.23
Next time we will be
talking about confession,
00:57:58.27\00:58:00.42
now that is fun, you know what?
00:58:00.45\00:58:02.83
It will be good
stuff, so next time
00:58:02.86\00:58:04.77
Celebrating Life
In Recovery, join us.
00:58:04.80\00:58:06.64
We'll be talking about
confession and you will meet
00:58:06.68\00:58:08.52
some great folks, bye-bye!
00:58:08.55\00:58:10.83