Shall we bow our
heads for prayer.
00:01:12.35\00:01:13.84
Father in heaven, as
we open up your holy book
00:01:14.75\00:01:17.87
We realize more than ever,
that we need the aid of your
00:01:19.71\00:01:22.40
of your holy spirit. We ask
that you will be present with us
00:01:22.44\00:01:26.70
through that spirit,
that gave us the word
00:01:26.73\00:01:30.64
Help us to understand and
to receive what you have for us
00:01:30.68\00:01:33.83
Help us to have
greater admiration for you.
00:01:33.86\00:01:37.39
We pray in the
precious name of Jesus, Amen.
00:01:37.42\00:01:40.92
In our lecture for this
moment, we are going to speak
00:01:44.50\00:01:48.88
about God's heavenly counsel.
00:01:48.91\00:01:53.15
We want to begin our study
in the book of Job chapter 38.
00:01:53.19\00:01:57.46
I'm going to focus
especially on verse 7.
00:01:58.13\00:02:02.20
I want to give you a
little bit of background
00:02:02.23\00:02:06.27
about Job, before
we read this verse
00:02:06.30\00:02:10.48
and the verses that surround it.
00:02:10.51\00:02:13.12
You know the story of Job.
00:02:14.24\00:02:17.09
Basically, chapter 1 and 2 tells
us that Job lost everything that
00:02:17.13\00:02:22.74
he had. The only thing
he didn't lose was his life.
00:02:22.77\00:02:26.22
He lost his health, servants
and his wife turned against him
00:02:26.26\00:02:31.11
His friends turned
against him. He lost servants,
00:02:31.12\00:02:35.54
he lost all of his animals,
he lost all of his properties.
00:02:35.58\00:02:39.26
In a matter of minutes, he
lost everything that he had.
00:02:39.29\00:02:42.94
That is the first two chapters.
00:02:42.97\00:02:45.85
Beginning in chapter three,
Job starts complaining to God.
00:02:45.89\00:02:50.83
He starts asking God to explain
the reason why he's going
00:02:51.98\00:02:56.09
through this period of crisis.
00:02:56.12\00:02:58.12
He says to God, I was a
family man, I offered sacrifices
00:02:58.74\00:03:02.11
for my children, I used my
riches to benefit the poor.
00:03:02.14\00:03:05.48
I clothed the
naked. I blessed humanity.
00:03:05.51\00:03:08.73
I consecrated my life to you.
So why is this happening to me
00:03:08.77\00:03:14.69
Please explain.
00:03:14.72\00:03:17.27
From chapter 3 to chapter 37,
00:03:17.31\00:03:21.00
God's only answer
00:03:21.50\00:03:24.00
is absolute silence.
00:03:24.16\00:03:28.07
This frustrates Job.
00:03:28.08\00:03:30.43
So, all throughout
these chapters, 3 through 37.
00:03:31.29\00:03:34.93
Job is crying out for
God to explain his suffering
00:03:34.94\00:03:40.20
and God says nothing to Job.
00:03:40.23\00:03:43.27
Finally, in chapter 38.
00:03:43.30\00:03:46.27
God is going to tell Job,
00:03:47.08\00:03:49.92
Job, now I'm going
to ask the questions
00:03:49.96\00:03:55.07
and you answer me.
00:03:55.10\00:03:57.34
Lets read Job 38,
beginning with verse 1.
00:03:57.38\00:04:02.17
Then the Lord answered
Job out of the whirlwind
00:04:02.18\00:04:06.01
and said, Who is this
that darkened counsel by words
00:04:06.05\00:04:10.36
without knowledge?
Gird up now thy loins like
00:04:10.39\00:04:14.42
a man; for I will demand
of thee, and answer thou me.
00:04:14.46\00:04:19.58
God is saying, it's
my turn to ask questions.
00:04:20.28\00:04:23.53
Notice verse 4.
00:04:23.56\00:04:25.34
What is being described
in these verses? Creation.
00:04:54.50\00:04:58.23
I want you to notice
verse 7, this is the key verse
00:04:58.26\00:05:01.96
in this whole passage.
00:05:01.97\00:05:03.80
It says in verse 7.
00:05:03.81\00:05:05.94
that when God did all of these
things, he laid the foundation
00:05:05.95\00:05:09.06
of the earth, he
laid the measures
00:05:09.07\00:05:12.75
he laid the
foundations and the cornerstone
00:05:12.79\00:05:17.36
it tells us in verse 7 something
happened when He did that.
00:05:17.40\00:05:20.52
This is pre-creation or at
the moment of creation at least.
00:05:21.21\00:05:24.62
Did you notice that
when Jesus created this world
00:05:38.57\00:05:41.58
there were two groups
that celebrated God's work?
00:05:41.62\00:05:44.60
One group is called the stars
of heaven and the other group
00:05:45.32\00:05:48.30
is called the sons of God.
00:05:48.33\00:05:50.68
I don't think we have
to look to far in the Bible
00:05:50.69\00:05:53.51
to understand who
the morning stars were.
00:05:53.52\00:05:56.90
In Revelation chapter
12, we find that when the
00:05:56.94\00:06:00.87
Devil fell from heaven
he drew a third of the stars
00:06:00.88\00:06:04.52
from heaven with him. It
is explained there that the
00:06:04.56\00:06:08.97
angels of Satan were
cast to the earth with him.
00:06:09.01\00:06:12.85
So, stars, the
morning stars represent angels
00:06:12.89\00:06:16.66
you'll notice that the
angels preexisted creation
00:06:16.70\00:06:20.63
because they sang at creation.
00:06:20.66\00:06:23.26
What about this group that
is described as the sons of God?
00:06:23.30\00:06:28.22
Who are these sons of God?
00:06:28.25\00:06:31.82
I believe the best answer to
that question would be to let
00:06:31.83\00:06:35.17
Job, himself tell us
who the sons of God are.
00:06:35.20\00:06:38.52
Did you know that in two
other places, in his book
00:06:38.53\00:06:41.84
he mentions the sons of
God. Lets go in our Bibles
00:06:41.87\00:06:45.15
to Job chapter 1. I
want to read quickly
00:06:45.18\00:06:48.51
through verses 1 through 7.
00:06:48.52\00:06:53.62
There was a man in the
land of Uz, whose name was Job;
00:06:54.42\00:06:58.90
and that man was perfect and
upright and one that feared God,
00:06:58.91\00:07:02.67
and eschewed evil.
00:07:02.70\00:07:04.60
And there were born unto him
seven sons and three daughters.
00:07:04.64\00:07:07.45
His substance also was
seven thousand sheep, and three
00:07:07.48\00:07:10.89
thousand camels, and
five hundred yoke of oxen
00:07:10.92\00:07:13.85
and five hundred she asses,
and a very great household
00:07:13.89\00:07:17.49
so that this man was
the greatest of all the men
00:07:17.53\00:07:20.49
of the east.
00:07:20.52\00:07:22.16
And he sons went and feasted
in their houses, every one his
00:07:22.20\00:07:27.04
day; and sent and called
for their three sisters to eat
00:07:27.07\00:07:31.88
and drink with them. And it
was so, when the days of their
00:07:31.89\00:07:36.39
feasting were gone about, that
Job sent and sanctified them
00:07:36.42\00:07:40.25
and rose up early in the morning
and offered burnt offerings
00:07:40.28\00:07:44.08
according to the number
of them all: for Job said,
00:07:44.11\00:07:46.70
It maybe that my sons have
sinned, and cursed God in their
00:07:46.74\00:07:49.88
hearts. Thus
did Job continually.
00:07:49.91\00:07:53.72
Now verses 6 and 7
are the key verses.
00:07:54.74\00:07:57.81
Do the Sons of God come all
the time to present themselves
00:08:13.53\00:08:15.02
Do they live in the
presence of the Lord?
00:08:15.05\00:08:16.88
Not according to this, it
says that they came on a certain
00:08:16.92\00:08:21.10
occasion to present
themselves before the Lord
00:08:21.13\00:08:23.75
which means that they do
not dwell where the Lord is.
00:08:23.79\00:08:27.90
Because they came.
00:08:29.03\00:08:30.61
It says, now there was a
day when the sons of God came
00:08:30.65\00:08:33.10
Did you notice that Satan came
to this meeting among the sons
00:09:04.65\00:09:08.83
of God? We have the strong
impression that Satan claimed to
00:09:08.86\00:09:12.68
have a right to belong to this
group, know as the sons of God.
00:09:12.71\00:09:16.50
he came among them.
00:09:16.53\00:09:18.34
The interesting thing
is, that the story describes
00:09:18.35\00:09:22.63
Satan coming from a planet.
00:09:22.64\00:09:26.47
Planet earth.
00:09:26.50\00:09:29.57
I don't think we have to be
too intelligent to figure out
00:09:29.61\00:09:33.19
That if Satan
comes among this group,
00:09:33.22\00:09:38.01
called the sons of God,
to present himself before God
00:09:38.05\00:09:41.58
and he comes from a planet,
00:09:41.59\00:09:44.85
It must mean that the other
sons of God, that belong to the
00:09:44.89\00:09:48.71
same group, most
likely also came from planets
00:09:48.74\00:09:53.80
Are you
understanding what I am saying?
00:09:53.83\00:09:56.10
Now the first meeting ended,
Job loses everything he had,
00:09:59.02\00:10:02.26
except that God didn't
let the Devil touch Job.
00:10:02.27\00:10:06.36
So, now there is another
meeting that takes place.
00:10:07.58\00:10:09.77
Notice Job chapter 2:1-2.
00:10:09.80\00:10:14.54
Notice carefully. Again
there was a day when the
00:10:17.33\00:10:22.63
sons of God came to present
themselves before the Lord,
00:10:22.67\00:10:26.08
Now this is very important,
00:10:26.11\00:10:28.60
What did the sons of God do?
00:10:28.64\00:10:31.06
They came to present
themselves before the Lord.
00:10:31.10\00:10:34.23
Would this mean, that they went
back to where ever they lived
00:10:34.27\00:10:38.71
after the first meeting?
00:10:38.74\00:10:40.72
See its so simple They must have
gone back to where they lived.
00:10:40.76\00:10:45.05
It says that they came
on another day to present
00:10:45.08\00:10:49.28
themselves before the Lord.
00:10:49.31\00:10:51.28
Which means that they
came to the first meeting,
00:10:51.32\00:10:53.46
they went back
to where they lived,
00:10:53.49\00:10:55.74
and then they came
back to the second meeting.
00:10:55.78\00:10:58.84
They don't live in
the presence of God.
00:10:58.87\00:11:02.92
Notice once
again, in chapter 2:2.
00:11:03.58\00:11:07.62
And the Lord said unto
Satan, From whence comest thou?
00:11:07.63\00:11:12.17
And Satan answered the Lord,
and said, From going to and fro
00:11:12.21\00:11:16.73
in the earth, and from
walking up and down in it.
00:11:16.76\00:11:21.59
We find that the sons of
God do not permanently dwell
00:11:21.62\00:11:26.42
in the presence of
God. We find that God
00:11:26.45\00:11:30.64
off and on. We don't know how
frequently, calls the sons of
00:11:30.68\00:11:35.33
God into his
presence for a meeting.
00:11:35.36\00:11:38.35
We discovered that Satan
who claims the right to be among
00:11:38.39\00:11:42.09
the sons of God, comes
from a planet, planet earth.
00:11:42.12\00:11:45.67
Which would lead us to assume
that the other sons of God
00:11:45.71\00:11:49.83
which belong to that group
must also come from planets
00:11:49.86\00:11:53.95
Now we have another description
of a heavenly counsel in the
00:11:56.06\00:11:59.22
old testament. I really
don't now if I should go into it
00:11:59.23\00:12:02.65
because our time is so
limited for these presentations
00:12:02.66\00:12:05.86
I would like to invite you.
I'll give you the references
00:12:06.61\00:12:09.86
2 Chronicles 18:18-21
00:12:09.89\00:12:14.65
It is a rather long passage,
but I want you to read that
00:12:15.34\00:12:18.17
passage, and you'll notice that
you have the heavenly counsel
00:12:18.21\00:12:21.89
convening in heaven, all of the
heavenly hosts are around God's
00:12:21.92\00:12:26.48
throne. God says, to all the
heavenly hosts, Who is willing
00:12:26.51\00:12:31.04
to go and persuade
King Ahab to go to battle
00:12:31.07\00:12:35.45
against the Syrians, so
he gets killed in battle.
00:12:35.49\00:12:38.84
You'll notice that the
heavenly counsel could not agree
00:12:40.47\00:12:42.97
on how it would be done.
00:12:43.00\00:12:46.10
It says that one said one thing
and the other said another.
00:12:46.14\00:12:49.93
Suddenly, a spirit appears
into the presence of the Lord
00:12:49.97\00:12:54.23
and he says, I'll entice Ahab
to fight against the Syrians
00:12:54.27\00:12:58.50
so they kill him.
00:12:58.51\00:13:00.32
The Lord says, how
are you going to do it?
00:13:00.36\00:13:03.48
He says, I will
be a lying spirit
00:13:03.51\00:13:08.29
in the mouth of all his prophets
00:13:08.33\00:13:13.08
They will tell
Ahab to go knowing well,
00:13:17.25\00:13:19.58
that he's going to be killed.
00:13:19.61\00:13:21.60
Let me ask you.
00:13:21.64\00:13:23.85
Does God use lying as a method
to accomplish his purposes?
00:13:23.89\00:13:27.88
Do the loyal,
faithful angels use lying?
00:13:29.27\00:13:32.36
They most certainly don't.
Who was this spirit that was
00:13:32.40\00:13:35.74
present up there next to
God's throne, who says, I'll go
00:13:35.77\00:13:39.04
down there and lead the prophets
to tell him to go to battle
00:13:39.08\00:13:44.22
full well knowing that
he is going to be killed.
00:13:44.23\00:13:46.00
It must have been
Satan. I want you to notice, is
00:13:46.84\00:13:50.45
there is deliberation in
the heavenly counsel concerning
00:13:50.49\00:13:55.28
earthly events.
00:13:55.31\00:13:58.23
We need to ask a
very urgent question.
00:13:58.27\00:14:00.42
It's this, What was
Satan doing in that meeting,
00:14:00.46\00:14:05.83
in the book of Job, and
in the meeting in 2 Chr 18?
00:14:05.87\00:14:11.21
What was Satan doing
representing planet earth
00:14:11.24\00:14:15.29
in that heavenly meeting?
00:14:15.32\00:14:17.28
Well, we've read this
text in our first two lectures.
00:14:17.32\00:14:20.92
Luke 4:5-7, The Devil
takes Jesus up to a very
00:14:22.23\00:14:27.39
high mountain. He shows him all
of the kingdoms of the world.
00:14:27.43\00:14:32.01
He says to Jesus, all of
these kingdoms and their power
00:14:32.94\00:14:38.03
I will give you.
00:14:38.06\00:14:40.37
They have been delivered
unto me and to whom ever
00:14:40.41\00:14:44.39
I wish, I give them.
00:14:44.42\00:14:47.79
Who delivered
this earth to Satan?
00:14:47.83\00:14:52.59
It was Adam. The
reason why Satan went
00:14:52.63\00:14:57.36
to that meeting in
heaven or went to those meetings
00:14:57.37\00:15:00.67
in heaven, representing planet
earth is because, Satan had
00:15:00.71\00:15:05.22
taken over the representative
role over this earth
00:15:05.25\00:15:09.46
He had sat on the throne
where Adam was and he claimed
00:15:09.50\00:15:13.68
dominion over this territory.
00:15:13.71\00:15:17.01
The Devil usurped, or
took away the position
00:15:17.05\00:15:22.60
of Adam.
00:15:22.63\00:15:26.13
We need to study a
few things about Adam.
00:15:26.17\00:15:29.21
It's very interesting, In order
to understand God's heavenly
00:15:29.25\00:15:33.65
counsel. We must take a look
at Adam and God's original plan
00:15:33.66\00:15:38.01
for him. I'm not talking
about Adam after he sinned
00:15:38.04\00:15:41.50
I'm talking about Adam as
God planned originally for him
00:15:41.54\00:15:45.54
Turn with me to Luke 3:23.
00:15:46.11\00:15:51.01
Here we find a description
of the genealogy of Christ.
00:15:54.92\00:15:58.65
I'm going to read the
beginning of his genealogy
00:15:58.68\00:16:02.12
and then I'm going to
read the end of his genealogy
00:16:02.16\00:16:05.57
It says there in Luke 3:23.
00:16:05.60\00:16:10.67
What is Adam called?
Adam is called the son of God.
00:16:44.27\00:16:48.90
Was Adam the son of
God in a special sense?
00:16:49.81\00:16:54.43
In a different
sense then we are?
00:16:54.44\00:16:57.12
Of course he was. We are
technically not sons of God.
00:16:57.16\00:17:01.90
We are sons of Adam.
Sons and daughters of Adam
00:17:01.93\00:17:06.40
There is only one that can
say they came out of the hands
00:17:07.10\00:17:10.41
of the creator. That was Adam.
00:17:10.44\00:17:13.83
Of course also Eve,
that was taken from Adam.
00:17:13.87\00:17:17.02
In the strictest sense of
the word, the only one who could
00:17:17.06\00:17:20.19
be called the
son of God, is Adam.
00:17:20.22\00:17:24.27
Notice here that Adam
is called the son of God.
00:17:24.31\00:17:29.51
Does that ring a bell, when
you look at the book of Job?
00:17:30.53\00:17:33.84
Very Interesting. Who was the
original son of God from planet
00:17:33.88\00:17:36.82
earth? It was Adam.
00:17:36.83\00:17:40.51
Allow me to read a statement
we find in Patriots and Prophets
00:17:40.55\00:17:43.60
page 44.
00:17:43.63\00:17:45.74
Ellen White caught
this point, she says.
00:17:45.78\00:17:48.92
She is quoting,
Luke 3:38. She says,
00:18:15.88\00:18:18.85
He was placed as God's
representative over the lower
00:18:18.89\00:18:24.03
orders of being.
00:18:24.06\00:18:28.26
Clearly we find Adam
being called son of God.
00:18:28.30\00:18:33.72
There are some other
interesting details about God's
00:18:34.82\00:18:37.30
original
description and plan for Adam.
00:18:37.33\00:18:41.01
Do you know, that Adam was
crowned in the garden of Eden?
00:18:41.05\00:18:46.76
Notice what we find in Psalm 8,
00:18:46.79\00:18:50.91
Which we read in a
previous lecture. Psalm 8:3-5.
00:18:50.92\00:18:56.01
Here it speaks
about the crowning of Adam
00:18:56.80\00:19:00.38
Psalm 8:3-5.
00:19:00.41\00:19:04.49
Allow me to read a statement
we find in God's Amazing Grace,
00:19:45.82\00:19:50.04
devotional book by Ellen White,
pg 44. She also caught this
00:19:50.08\00:19:54.27
point that we notice
from scripture from Psalm 8.
00:19:54.30\00:19:56.82
We find Adam, the son
of God, crowned to be king.
00:20:40.30\00:20:44.35
As a king, he
represented planet earth.
00:20:44.38\00:20:50.23
I wasn't to read a
statement that we find in the
00:20:50.27\00:20:54.17
devotional book, The
faith I Live By, it is
00:20:54.21\00:20:58.40
also found in
Patriots and Prophets, pg 48.
00:20:58.43\00:21:02.59
What was Adam? He was
the father and representative
00:21:18.74\00:21:24.01
of the whole human
family. In other words, Adam
00:21:24.02\00:21:28.25
was the representative,
00:21:28.29\00:21:31.22
the legitimate
representative of earth.
00:21:31.25\00:21:35.49
Are you starting to get
the interesting picture?
00:21:36.42\00:21:40.08
The son of God,
crowned to be king, the realm
00:21:40.11\00:21:43.70
of his dominion, everything
relating to the earth.
00:21:43.74\00:21:48.12
The birds of the air, the fish
of the waters and the animals
00:21:48.16\00:21:52.64
that walk upon the land, all
where the sphere of his dominion
00:21:52.68\00:21:57.13
and he is the father and
representative of planet earth.
00:21:57.16\00:22:01.24
How was Adam
garbed, how was he clothed
00:22:03.04\00:22:07.81
originally,
before sin? Actually,
00:22:07.84\00:22:12.47
he was covered
with a robe of light.
00:22:12.51\00:22:17.07
Like the garments that God
wears. You know in the Bible
00:22:17.11\00:22:19.81
where it speaks about angels
being clothed in white linen
00:22:19.85\00:22:22.52
and God the Father
being clothed in white linen?
00:22:22.55\00:22:26.11
The white linen of the angels
and of God, is a garment of
00:22:26.15\00:22:30.69
light.
00:22:30.72\00:22:33.70
Do you remember the
women of Revelation 12?
00:22:34.90\00:22:37.43
It says, representing the true
church, she's clothed with what?
00:22:37.47\00:22:41.21
With the sun.
00:22:41.24\00:22:44.69
So, the garments are garments
of light, but what happened
00:22:45.74\00:22:48.32
when Adam and Eve sinned? What
happened to the garment of light
00:22:48.36\00:22:51.06
They went away and they
saw that they were naked.
00:22:52.12\00:22:55.24
So, they took fig leaves to
cover themselves, but originally
00:22:55.28\00:22:58.53
they were robed
in white garments.
00:22:58.56\00:23:02.35
Allow me to read again a
statement this is from Patriots
00:23:02.39\00:23:05.99
and Prophets, pg 45. See, we
go to scripture and then we read
00:23:06.03\00:23:09.59
the spirit of prophecy.
00:23:09.62\00:23:12.10
Ellen White says this.
00:23:12.11\00:23:13.43
We find Adam and Eve
garbed with garments of light.
00:23:51.39\00:23:56.78
Lets summarize
what we have studied.
00:23:57.43\00:24:00.35
First, Adam is the son of God.
As he was originally created.
00:24:00.39\00:24:05.88
Second, we find Adam crowned.
00:24:06.45\00:24:10.08
Third, we find that the realm
of his dominion is everything
00:24:10.12\00:24:14.45
connected with planet earth.
00:24:14.48\00:24:17.04
Fourth, he is the father and
representative of planet earth.
00:24:17.05\00:24:21.87
He is robed with
garments of light.
00:24:21.90\00:24:26.01
Of course if he was
representative of earth, that
00:24:27.15\00:24:30.79
means that if God ever
called a meeting, who would go
00:24:30.83\00:24:34.44
representing earth? Adam.
00:24:34.47\00:24:36.49
Who represents the United
States of America, if there
00:24:36.50\00:24:39.75
is a meeting? Like the G7
meeting, it is often called?
00:24:39.78\00:24:44.02
Who goes representing our
country? The President of the US
00:24:44.06\00:24:48.27
He is ruler so to speak. He's
not a king. He's democratically
00:24:49.55\00:24:54.26
elected, but he is still
the ruler. He represents the US.
00:24:54.30\00:24:58.98
In the same way Adam
was ruler over the earth,
00:24:59.73\00:25:03.60
and he represented this world.
00:25:03.63\00:25:07.63
Something terrible happened,
Adam, we've noticed in chapter 4
00:25:07.67\00:25:12.56
Also by the fact, Jesus calls
Satan the Prince of this world
00:25:12.59\00:25:17.45
Adam lost his throne,
he abdicated his throne.
00:25:17.48\00:25:21.74
Satan sat on the throne and
claimed the earth. That's why
00:25:21.75\00:25:24.95
when he went to the heavenly
meeting, he says, I've been
00:25:24.98\00:25:28.15
roaming over the earth.
00:25:28.16\00:25:30.90
Patrolling, supervising my
territory, is what he is saying.
00:25:30.94\00:25:35.21
He comes among the sons of God.
00:25:35.24\00:25:38.79
Now, if the
original son of God was Adam
00:25:38.83\00:25:40.68
a creature from a planet.
Who must the other sons of God
00:25:40.72\00:25:46.40
be? Is it possible that they
are Adams from other planets?
00:25:46.44\00:25:52.09
From other worlds? I believe so.
00:25:52.12\00:25:54.89
Lets go to the
book of Revelation.
00:25:54.92\00:25:58.78
Revelation
chapter 4, lets examine
00:25:58.81\00:26:02.60
a few of the things we
studied in a previous lecture.
00:26:02.64\00:26:06.90
Revelation chapter 4, I
want to begin at verse 2.
00:26:06.94\00:26:11.17
Doors open in heaven, John is
invited to go through the door
00:26:12.28\00:26:16.69
when he goes into
the door, he sees there
00:26:16.72\00:26:20.51
a throne. Lets read on about it.
00:26:20.54\00:26:22.76
How many were
seated on the throne? One.
00:26:36.32\00:26:39.13
Why only one? We studied
this in our previous lecture
00:26:39.17\00:26:42.30
The reason why there is
only one, is because the angels
00:26:42.31\00:26:46.39
have all left to pick up Jesus
to bring him back to heaven
00:26:46.43\00:26:50.48
That takes place in
Revelation chapter 5.
00:26:50.51\00:26:54.06
We find this throne,
where God the Father is seated.
00:26:54.10\00:26:58.21
I want you to notice, verse 4.
00:26:59.25\00:27:03.83
What position are the
elder in? They are sitting.
00:27:24.50\00:27:26.48
What are they
sitting on? Thrones.
00:27:26.49\00:27:29.37
Who sits on thrones? Kings.
00:27:29.40\00:27:33.30
Unless you don't
believe these are kings.
00:27:33.34\00:27:36.84
lets continue reading.
00:27:36.85\00:27:38.81
And round about the throne
were four and twenty seats:
00:27:38.85\00:27:43.08
and upon the seats I saw
four and twenty elders sitting.
00:27:43.11\00:27:47.31
Who wears crowns? Kings.
00:28:09.21\00:28:11.88
There are several interesting
details in this verse.
00:28:12.24\00:28:14.40
We need to know that these
are not angels. We are going to
00:28:15.77\00:28:17.96
notice this a little
bit later, or more clearly.
00:28:17.99\00:28:21.35
These are not angels. In
scripture, angels are not
00:28:21.39\00:28:25.27
portrayed as sitting.
They are always in movement.
00:28:25.30\00:28:29.11
Fulfilling the missions of God.
They are ministering spirits
00:28:29.15\00:28:33.83
They don't have any
sphere of ruler ship.
00:28:33.84\00:28:37.65
and furthermore, in scripture
it self, there is no reference
00:28:37.69\00:28:41.78
as far as I am able to
find, to angels having crowns.
00:28:41.81\00:28:47.24
We find here, that these beings
00:28:49.74\00:28:52.89
are kings, they
are seated on thrones
00:28:52.90\00:28:57.09
they must be rulers somewhere.
They're garbed in white garments
00:28:57.10\00:29:02.73
We also find in Revelation
4, that they are creatures
00:29:02.76\00:29:07.88
Notice Revelation 4:9-10.
00:29:07.91\00:29:12.62
It says in verse 9, And
when these living creatures
00:29:12.66\00:29:17.53
give glory and honor and thanks
to him that sat on the throne
00:29:17.57\00:29:21.91
who liveth for ever and ever.
00:29:21.94\00:29:24.67
They are worshiping the one
on the throne as the creator
00:29:50.62\00:29:53.51
which means that
they must be what?
00:29:53.54\00:29:55.69
They must be creatures.
00:29:55.73\00:29:58.68
So, you have
creatures that are crowned
00:29:58.71\00:30:01.85
Creatures that sit upon thrones.
Creatures that are garbed
00:30:02.74\00:30:07.70
in white garments. They
have come to this meeting
00:30:07.73\00:30:11.19
place. Where everything's being
prepared for the arrival of
00:30:11.23\00:30:15.46
whom? For the
arrival of Jesus Christ
00:30:15.49\00:30:19.88
We noticed in our previous
lecture that in the midst of the
00:30:20.51\00:30:25.36
throne, there were
four living beings.
00:30:25.39\00:30:30.87
Which we identified
as what? As seraphim.
00:30:31.42\00:30:35.83
Commanding angels
with six wings. If you read
00:30:36.61\00:30:41.98
Ezekiel chapters 10 and
11, you'll discover that the
00:30:42.02\00:30:45.23
cherubim are described
in very similar terminology.
00:30:45.26\00:30:48.40
In other words, present there,
awaiting the arrival of Christ,
00:30:48.44\00:30:52.76
were cherubim and seraphim.
00:30:52.80\00:30:57.23
Then, you remember
in chapter 4, Jesus is
00:30:57.27\00:31:02.52
missing, right? He's not sitting
on the throne. In chapter 4
00:31:02.56\00:31:06.25
are the angels there?
The angels aren't there.
00:31:06.28\00:31:09.17
There missing. You say, where
is Jesus, where are the angels
00:31:09.70\00:31:15.00
The fact is, the one on the
throne is praised, because he is
00:31:15.01\00:31:18.16
the creator. There is
no reference to redemption.
00:31:18.19\00:31:20.90
But, when you get to chapter
five, there are clear references
00:31:20.94\00:31:25.30
to redemption. Jesus appears
and all of the angelic hosts
00:31:25.33\00:31:29.66
also appear, along with
Jesus, because in chapter 5
00:31:29.67\00:31:33.87
Jesus arrives in heaven.
00:31:33.90\00:31:38.21
Go with me to
chapter 5 and verse 5.
00:31:38.25\00:31:42.71
And one of the
elders saith unto me,
00:31:42.75\00:31:45.94
Weep not: behold
00:31:45.97\00:31:50.48
the Lion of the tribe of
Judah, the Root of David, hath
00:31:50.51\00:31:55.34
prevailed. Prevailed over
whom? Who did he prevail over?
00:31:55.37\00:32:01.03
He prevailed over Satan.
Hath prevailed to open the book
00:32:01.06\00:32:06.69
and to loose the
seven seals thereof.
00:32:06.72\00:32:10.61
And I beheld, and, lo, in the
midst of the throne and of the
00:32:11.19\00:32:15.26
four beasts, and in the
midst of the elders, stood
00:32:15.29\00:32:20.07
a lamb as it had been
slain. What did it cost this
00:32:20.11\00:32:25.63
lamb in order to over
come Satan? Was he scared?
00:32:25.66\00:32:30.39
Yes, he was. It says, a
lamb as it had been slain.
00:32:30.43\00:32:35.13
having seven
horns and seven eyes.
00:32:35.16\00:32:39.05
Which are the seven spirits of
God sent forth to all the earth
00:32:39.09\00:32:44.12
And he came and took the
book out of the right hand of
00:32:44.88\00:32:48.40
him that sat upon the throne
00:32:48.43\00:32:51.30
Now in chapter 5, Jesus arrives.
If you go to verse 11 you find
00:32:51.34\00:32:56.01
all the angelic hosts around
the throne and they are singing
00:32:56.02\00:32:59.33
honor and glory, not only to
the one seated on the throne,
00:32:59.37\00:33:02.65
the creator, but they
are singing honor and glory
00:33:02.68\00:33:05.02
and praise to Jesus Christ,
because he is the redeemer.
00:33:05.06\00:33:10.01
Are you catching the picture?
00:33:11.32\00:33:12.92
And present
there, are the 24 elders.
00:33:12.96\00:33:17.31
Now, there is
another person missing.
00:33:18.04\00:33:22.31
In the story of
Revelation 4 and 5.
00:33:22.34\00:33:26.58
If this is the heavenly
counsel, where at a certain time
00:33:27.16\00:33:31.27
the sons of God, who are rulers,
are crowned and are garbed in
00:33:31.28\00:33:35.77
white and are sons of God. They
are invited to come on special
00:33:35.81\00:33:40.27
occasions to heaven. Among those
00:33:40.30\00:33:44.52
to those meetings, came
Satan. Whom would we expect
00:33:44.53\00:33:49.57
to come to this meeting, that
takes place in Revelation 4, 5?
00:33:49.61\00:33:54.43
Well if the 24 elders are
the representatives of the world
00:33:55.79\00:33:59.17
which seems to be the case,
when you look at the comparison
00:33:59.21\00:34:02.56
between Job and
Revelation chapters 4 and 5.
00:34:02.59\00:34:05.23
You would expect Satan
to be there, but the fact is
00:34:05.27\00:34:09.89
that Satan is missing in
the story of Revelation 4 and 5.
00:34:10.66\00:34:15.06
Do you know why?
00:34:17.14\00:34:19.43
Because at the cross of
Calvary, he was overcome.
00:34:19.44\00:34:23.27
Go with me to John
chapter 12 and lets notice this.
00:34:24.65\00:34:28.08
John chapter 12, lets
see if it all fits together
00:34:28.12\00:34:33.24
John 12 verses 31-33.
This is just a couple of days
00:34:33.28\00:34:38.33
before the death of Christ.
00:34:38.37\00:34:40.53
It says there in John 12:31.
00:34:40.56\00:34:44.95
The following.
00:34:44.98\00:34:47.43
This is not the talking
about the original casting out
00:35:07.61\00:35:10.19
of Satan from heaven.
This is another casting out.
00:35:10.20\00:35:12.52
Did you know the Devil was
cast out of heaven at the cross?
00:35:12.56\00:35:15.77
He was cast out as a
representative of this world.
00:35:15.80\00:35:19.88
Notice how Jesus
did it. Verse 32.
00:35:20.47\00:35:23.81
And I if I be lifted up from the
earth will draw all men unto me
00:35:23.85\00:35:29.02
This he said, signifying
00:35:29.05\00:35:31.91
what death he should die
00:35:31.94\00:35:35.63
What is it that cast Satan out
of heaven according to Jesus?
00:35:35.66\00:35:40.10
It was going to be, his
what? His death on the cross.
00:35:40.11\00:35:43.60
When Jesus says, It is
finished to his father,
00:35:43.63\00:35:46.91
he is also
saying, He is finished.
00:35:46.94\00:35:51.21
His head was crushed.
00:35:51.24\00:35:53.89
Satan no longer
represents planet earth.
00:35:54.59\00:35:58.87
Now, Jesus ascends to
heaven and the human race has a
00:35:58.91\00:36:02.47
new representative.
00:36:02.50\00:36:05.75
That's the reason the
new testament calls Jesus
00:36:05.79\00:36:09.01
the last Adam.
00:36:09.04\00:36:13.37
In 1 Corinthians
chapter 15 and verse 45.
00:36:13.41\00:36:16.72
Jesus is called the
last Adam, because Jesus came
00:36:17.56\00:36:22.34
to recover that which Adam lost.
00:36:22.37\00:36:27.27
He did that.
00:36:28.48\00:36:30.57
I'd like to read
some statements here,
00:36:30.61\00:36:33.89
These statements
come from several sources
00:36:33.93\00:36:37.18
The first is in the
Gospel Herald, March 1, 1901.
00:36:39.18\00:36:43.28
Notice what Ellen White
says. She caught this point
00:36:43.31\00:36:47.34
That no long could Satan go
around representing this world
00:36:47.38\00:36:50.77
when the sons of God gather
in heaven. Satan can't go there.
00:36:50.80\00:36:54.16
Jesus has taken
the place of Satan.
00:36:55.65\00:36:59.88
It says there. Christ
was to suffer in our behalf.
00:37:00.36\00:37:04.81
Standing at the head of humanity
00:37:05.47\00:37:09.65
as representative of the race.
What was Jesus going to do?
00:37:09.69\00:37:14.28
He's going to be at the head of
humanity as the representative
00:37:14.89\00:37:18.23
of the race. He was to work
out the character which every
00:37:18.26\00:37:22.74
follower of his, is to work out.
00:37:22.77\00:37:25.73
Through the provision which he
has made. His infinite sacrifice
00:37:25.77\00:37:30.53
his life and death on earth.
00:37:30.56\00:37:34.52
So, who is the new head and
representative of planet earth?
00:37:34.56\00:37:37.92
It is the second Adam, Jesus.
00:37:37.95\00:37:41.75
Signs of the
Times, January 16, 1896.
00:37:41.79\00:37:45.63
We find these words.
00:37:45.66\00:37:47.79
Let me ask you. Who is
the new king of planet earth?
00:38:10.69\00:38:13.31
Who is the new
representative of planet earth
00:38:13.34\00:38:15.80
in the heavenly counsel?
It's none less then Jesus Christ
00:38:15.84\00:38:20.00
Satan, the prince of this world,
was cast down at the cross
00:38:20.04\00:38:24.17
of Calvary. Now, when ever
there are meetings in heaven
00:38:24.18\00:38:28.40
Jesus represents this earth.
He represents this planet.
00:38:28.43\00:38:32.62
So, who are the 24
elders of Revelation chapter 4?
00:38:35.84\00:38:40.81
I have no doubts in my mind,
that by the characteristics
00:38:42.10\00:38:45.31
we have studied, that
the 24 elders represent the
00:38:45.34\00:38:49.22
representatives of
the unfallen worlds.
00:38:49.25\00:38:53.71
They're crowned because
they are kings of their planets.
00:38:53.72\00:38:57.03
They sit on thrones because they
are kings. They are garbed in
00:38:57.04\00:39:01.43
white. Just like Adam was
when he was created originally.
00:39:01.46\00:39:04.28
They are the rulers of
the worlds who where invited
00:39:04.31\00:39:09.28
to the inauguration of Jesus,
upon his return to heaven.
00:39:09.32\00:39:14.22
Now, I know someone is saying,
wait a minute pastor Bohr.
00:39:14.78\00:39:18.08
You are passing over a problem.
00:39:19.77\00:39:23.15
We need to solve this problem.
00:39:23.18\00:39:26.49
The problem is in
Revelation 5: 9-10.
00:39:26.53\00:39:30.24
We have to deal with the
problems also. Revelation 5:9-10
00:39:30.28\00:39:33.84
Do you know that traditionally
in the Seventh-day Adventist
00:39:33.88\00:39:37.41
Church, the idea is, the
24 elders represent those
00:39:37.44\00:39:42.16
who resurrected with Christ.
00:39:42.19\00:39:45.38
Even the most resent
books that you find at the ABC.
00:39:45.42\00:39:48.39
Teach that, the 24 elders are
those who resurrected with Jesus
00:39:48.43\00:39:54.25
which we spoke about
in our previous lecture.
00:39:54.28\00:39:56.20
Folks, it's not possible.
00:39:56.87\00:39:59.30
The 24 elders are there
in heaven in Revelation 4
00:39:59.34\00:40:04.21
before Jesus arrives in chapter
5, with those delivered from
00:40:04.25\00:40:08.66
the grave. Are you
understanding me or not?
00:40:08.69\00:40:11.66
Notice Revelation 5:9-10. This
is where we have the problem
00:40:12.22\00:40:16.22
We have to solve it, because
this morning after I presented
00:40:16.26\00:40:20.72
my sermon, or my lecture, I had
someone say, Ahh, there is this
00:40:20.75\00:40:25.18
little problem. You said the 24
elders are the representatives
00:40:25.19\00:40:28.36
of the worlds but what do you do
with this? I said, come tonight
00:40:28.39\00:40:31.53
He said, I can't.
00:40:31.56\00:40:33.87
We will have to get him the DVD.
00:40:33.91\00:40:36.70
Revelation
chapter 5 verses 9-10.
00:40:36.71\00:40:40.75
It says there. Lets read
verse 8, for the context.
00:40:41.63\00:40:46.06
When he had taken the book,
notice this. The four beasts
00:40:46.10\00:40:51.20
and 24 elders. Did
you catch this point?
00:40:51.23\00:40:55.76
The four living creatures, the
24 elders. Very important point.
00:40:55.80\00:40:59.61
Fell down before the Lamb,
having everyone of them harps
00:40:59.64\00:41:03.65
and golden vials full of odours,
which are the prayers of saints.
00:41:03.66\00:41:07.27
Were the seraphim's
redeemed from the earth
00:41:24.24\00:41:26.82
from every kindred
and tribe? Of course, not.
00:41:26.86\00:41:29.41
I asked that
point for a purpose.
00:41:29.44\00:41:31.73
Notice what we find in verse 9.
00:41:31.76\00:41:34.02
What do we do with that problem?
It seems to say that the 24
00:42:27.91\00:42:31.41
elders are redeemed from
every nation on planet earth.
00:42:31.44\00:42:34.32
It seems to say that they are
going to be kings upon the earth
00:42:34.36\00:42:37.36
This problem is not as
complicated as it seems.
00:42:38.39\00:42:42.50
There is a problem
in translation here.
00:42:42.53\00:42:46.04
The King James translators,
miss translated verses 9:10.
00:42:46.08\00:42:51.01
By the way, almost every
single modern version corrects
00:42:51.05\00:42:55.11
the problem in translation.
Whether it's the NIV, the
00:42:55.14\00:42:59.13
New English Bible, Jerusalem
Bible. All the modern versions
00:42:59.17\00:43:02.30
translate these
two verses correctly.
00:43:02.33\00:43:06.57
The pronoun us, is
not in the original.
00:43:06.61\00:43:10.82
It is added by the
King James translators
00:43:11.48\00:43:14.82
For some unexplainable
reason, in verse 10
00:43:14.86\00:43:18.17
in Greek, it says, They
shall rein upon the earth
00:43:19.57\00:43:23.12
and they took the liberty
of changing it to, we shall
00:43:23.16\00:43:26.68
rein upon the earth.
00:43:26.71\00:43:28.85
I'm not saying that the King
James version is a bad version
00:43:28.89\00:43:32.01
what I'm saying is, no
version of the Bible is perfect.
00:43:32.04\00:43:35.13
If you go to the Greek,
in which the new testament
00:43:36.99\00:43:40.59
was written, it becomes
very clear that the 24 elders
00:43:40.62\00:43:44.15
where not redeemed from every
nation. They're actually singing
00:43:44.19\00:43:48.11
about the redeemed. The
best translation actually says
00:43:48.14\00:43:52.49
in verse 9. And they sung
a new song, saying thou art
00:43:52.52\00:43:55.93
worthy to take the book
and to open the seals thereof
00:43:55.97\00:43:59.35
for thou was slain and
hast redeemed to God by thy
00:43:59.36\00:44:05.08
blood, out of every kindred,
and tongue and people and nation
00:44:05.12\00:44:09.18
Not us, but you have redeemed
people from every sphere
00:44:09.21\00:44:13.75
of planet earth and hast us made
00:44:13.79\00:44:16.66
onto our God kings and priests
00:44:16.69\00:44:18.77
Not us, but you have made
kings and priests, and then
00:44:20.05\00:44:23.76
they shall reign upon the earth.
00:44:24.77\00:44:27.78
Are you
understanding what I'm saying?
00:44:28.53\00:44:31.73
Now, we solved the
problem in translation.
00:44:31.77\00:44:34.94
We have a few more things
we have to take a look at.
00:44:36.03\00:44:38.44
As we examine
the heavenly counsel
00:44:39.19\00:44:41.63
Sometimes the best way to
determine, who a group are,
00:44:42.75\00:44:46.81
is by studying,
who they are not.
00:44:48.65\00:44:51.71
So, lets start disqualifying
00:44:51.74\00:44:55.92
the different groups
that we know of in scripture
00:44:55.96\00:44:59.66
that exist in
heaven and on earth.
00:44:59.69\00:45:02.99
Number 1, are the 24 elders the
same as the 4 living creatures?
00:45:03.03\00:45:08.15
What are the 4 living creatures?
They are cherubim and seraphim
00:45:09.57\00:45:13.04
So are the 24 elders cherubim
and seraphim? No, because
00:45:13.75\00:45:18.12
in Revelation 4 and 5
they are distinguished
00:45:18.15\00:45:20.71
They are two different groups.
00:45:20.74\00:45:22.69
Are the 24 four elders
part of the angelic host?
00:45:22.73\00:45:28.07
Maybe so, lets go
to Revelation 5:11.
00:45:29.59\00:45:33.64
Revelation 5:11, they are not
angels, not part of the angelic
00:45:33.68\00:45:37.09
host. Notice
carefully, Revelation 5:11
00:45:37.10\00:45:42.47
It says that I beheld,
and I heard the voice of many
00:45:42.51\00:45:46.04
angels, round about the
throne and the living creatures
00:45:46.08\00:45:49.58
and the elders.
00:45:49.61\00:45:51.75
Are the angelic host
distinguished from the elders
00:45:51.79\00:45:54.70
and from the four
living creatures in that verse?
00:45:54.74\00:45:57.59
Yes, they are not cherubim,
seraphim which are the leaders
00:45:57.62\00:46:01.64
of angels they're not
part of the angelic hosts
00:46:01.67\00:46:05.81
They're not angelic beings.
00:46:05.84\00:46:08.83
What about those that
resurrected with Christ.
00:46:10.69\00:46:13.21
maybe they are the ones
who resurrected with Jesus
00:46:13.24\00:46:15.73
I've already mentioned
that, that isn't possible.
00:46:16.30\00:46:19.10
because they are already
present in the throne room
00:46:19.14\00:46:22.00
before Jesus arrives
with those that resurrected
00:46:22.04\00:46:24.87
Are you
understanding my point, or not?
00:46:24.88\00:46:27.61
The elders are already in
heaven before Jesus arrives
00:46:27.65\00:46:30.45
with those that
resurrected with him.
00:46:30.48\00:46:32.99
which means that, these beings
were invited to the reception
00:46:33.00\00:46:36.82
of Jesus should
arrive in heaven.
00:46:36.85\00:46:40.49
Somebody, might say, well Pastor
maybe it's a different name
00:46:40.53\00:46:43.89
for an unnumbered
host of the redeemed.
00:46:43.92\00:46:47.63
Again, nice try. In
Revelation chapter 7
00:46:47.66\00:46:51.93
verse 13, if you go
with me there. Rev 7:13.
00:46:51.97\00:46:56.17
We find that the 24 elders
are actually distinguished
00:46:56.21\00:46:59.88
from the great multitude
which no one could number
00:46:59.92\00:47:03.59
Revelation chapter 7,
but lets begin at verse 9.
00:47:03.63\00:47:07.27
It says, After this I beheld
a great multitude, which no man
00:47:07.28\00:47:10.47
number, of all nations and
kindreds and people and tongues
00:47:10.50\00:47:13.48
Stood before the throne, and
before the Lamb, clothed with
00:47:13.51\00:47:16.46
white robes, and
palms in their hands.
00:47:16.49\00:47:18.97
Verse 13. And one of the
elders answered, saying unto me
00:47:19.01\00:47:22.97
What are these which
are arrayed in white robes?
00:47:24.30\00:47:28.16
and whence came they? Notice,
one of the elders is asking
00:47:28.20\00:47:31.52
who are these great multitude?
As seen by John. Would he ask
00:47:31.56\00:47:34.85
who is this great multitude,
if he was part of the multitude?
00:47:34.86\00:47:38.39
Of course not. The 24 elders
are distinguished from the great
00:47:38.43\00:47:41.93
multitude of the redeemed.
00:47:41.96\00:47:44.26
Someone might say, well Pastor
Bohr, maybe their the ones
00:47:44.30\00:47:47.45
that are going to resurrect when
Jesus comes. When he comes down
00:47:47.49\00:47:50.49
with a shout, with a voice of
the archangel the trumpet of God
00:47:50.50\00:47:53.58
The dead in Christ will rise,
they must be the 24 elders.
00:47:53.61\00:47:57.21
Won't work because the 24 elders
were there at the Ascension
00:47:57.24\00:48:00.81
God's people won't resurrect
until the second coming of Jesus
00:48:01.53\00:48:04.56
Someone might say, Pastor
Bohr, what about the 144,000?
00:48:05.24\00:48:08.88
those that will be alive
when Jesus comes, maybe their
00:48:08.91\00:48:12.52
the 144,000 with
a different name.
00:48:12.53\00:48:15.65
Again, if you read Revelation
14:3. You'll discover that
00:48:15.69\00:48:19.96
the elders are
distinguished from the 144,000.
00:48:19.99\00:48:24.36
These beings are not
angels and they don't
00:48:24.40\00:48:28.58
fit into any
category of human beings.
00:48:28.62\00:48:32.77
So, what are we left with?
00:48:32.80\00:48:36.58
They must be a
different order of being.
00:48:36.62\00:48:40.08
They're not angelic
and they're not human.
00:48:40.12\00:48:43.55
From what we have
studied, they must be, the what?
00:48:43.56\00:48:46.59
They must be the representatives
of the worlds. They must be
00:48:46.63\00:48:50.98
the Adams of the different
realms all across the universe.
00:48:51.01\00:48:55.33
I'd like to read a portion
of a passage that I read in
00:48:55.84\00:48:59.11
our previous lecture. This
is found in the Desire of Ages
00:48:59.14\00:49:02.38
pg 834. Ellen White caught
00:49:02.41\00:49:05.06
This long before I did
00:49:05.09\00:49:07.91
There's not many people that
have the same view that I do
00:49:08.77\00:49:12.29
of the 24 elders, but I believe
that we have firm biblical
00:49:12.32\00:49:15.77
evidence and spirit of prophecy
evidence for what I'm presenting
00:49:15.81\00:49:18.66
In Desire of Ages,
Ellen White says this.
00:49:19.57\00:49:22.30
Speaking about the moment
when Jesus arrives into the city
00:49:22.34\00:49:25.56
Pg 834.
00:49:25.59\00:49:27.12
By the way, who
would those be in Rev 4?
00:50:14.97\00:50:19.12
The four living creatures.
The 24 elders would be, what?
00:50:19.16\00:50:24.18
The
representatives of the worlds.
00:50:25.58\00:50:26.74
Then Ellen White says this.
00:50:26.77\00:50:30.06
If the one seated on the throne
is the father, as she identifies
00:51:39.09\00:51:42.15
If the four living creatures
are cherubim and seraphim
00:51:42.18\00:51:46.25
If the Lamb, as though he
had been slain, is Christ.
00:51:47.55\00:51:51.64
If the innumerable host that
is singing are angels, because
00:51:53.07\00:51:57.85
she interprets them as angels.
00:51:57.88\00:52:00.44
Must we also expect to find in
this passage the identity of the
00:52:01.02\00:52:05.01
24 elders? Absolutely.
00:52:05.04\00:52:08.11
Whom does she say they are?
00:52:08.12\00:52:11.00
She says the representatives
of the unfallen worlds
00:52:11.04\00:52:15.15
the sons of God.
00:52:15.18\00:52:19.28
He points to the
tokens of his triumph
00:52:20.53\00:52:23.65
You know the interesting
thing is, God makes decisions
00:52:36.04\00:52:39.29
in heaven by
consulting his heavenly counsel.
00:52:39.32\00:52:42.80
There's an interesting reference
in the book Story of Redemption
00:52:44.17\00:52:48.24
There Ellen White
explains when Satan
00:52:49.83\00:52:53.90
who was Lucifer at that
time, was rebel rising in heaven
00:52:53.94\00:52:57.58
and he was spreading
rumors against God, turning the
00:52:58.78\00:53:01.60
heavenly beings against God.
00:53:01.64\00:53:02.71
It got to a
point, where God gathered
00:53:02.74\00:53:04.76
the heavenly counsel, which
would be the representatives
00:53:04.80\00:53:08.76
of the worlds, and the angels.
00:53:08.79\00:53:12.68
He said, this is what's
happening, it's being done in an
00:53:12.72\00:53:17.35
underhanded way, but
this is what's being done.
00:53:17.38\00:53:19.93
What do you suggest we do?
00:53:19.96\00:53:23.36
Do you know what
the counsel said?
00:53:24.26\00:53:26.15
Expel him from heaven.
00:53:26.18\00:53:29.71
The decision to expel Lucifer
from heaven was not a unilateral
00:53:29.75\00:53:34.42
decision by God.
It was a decision made
00:53:34.43\00:53:38.16
by the heavenly
counsel. God works by committee.
00:53:38.20\00:53:43.08
Is it that nice?
00:53:48.41\00:53:50.61
You know as a Pastor
I've learned that I can't make
00:53:50.65\00:53:52.85
unilateral decisions, I have
to have backing of the board.
00:53:52.89\00:53:57.45
So God, before he make any
decision regarding this earth
00:53:59.58\00:54:03.91
important decision he
gathers the heavenly counsel
00:54:03.94\00:54:08.12
to decide what
is going to be done.
00:54:08.15\00:54:12.36
I need to conclude
this, I want to just mention
00:54:13.34\00:54:17.76
that the 24 elders are mentioned
00:54:17.79\00:54:22.00
in six chapters
00:54:22.01\00:54:26.64
of the book of Revelation.
00:54:26.68\00:54:29.70
The first reference is in
Revelation 4, and I want you to
00:54:30.67\00:54:33.56
notice the relationship. The
first chapter the 24 elders are
00:54:33.60\00:54:36.44
mentioned is chapter 4. They are
praising the one on the throne
00:54:36.47\00:54:39.28
because he is the creator.
00:54:39.31\00:54:42.61
Jesus hasn't arrived yet.
00:54:42.65\00:54:45.88
They are found in
chapter 5. In chapter 5,
00:54:45.92\00:54:50.52
they are praising Jesus
00:54:50.55\00:54:55.33
because he is the redeemer.
00:54:55.37\00:55:00.12
See, they were invited
there before Jesus ascended
00:55:01.05\00:55:03.87
they're there for the
celebration when Jesus arrives.
00:55:03.90\00:55:06.69
To welcome the commander home.
00:55:07.72\00:55:10.80
You know, there are four
other places in Revelation
00:55:10.84\00:55:14.20
were the 24 elders are mentioned
I just going to mention them
00:55:14.24\00:55:16.87
very quickly.
Revelation 7:13, which we read.
00:55:16.90\00:55:20.57
Where the great multitude
without number is found in front
00:55:21.57\00:55:24.38
of the throne of God.
00:55:24.41\00:55:26.98
In other words,
they have been redeemed.
00:55:27.02\00:55:29.34
They're in heaven. Are we going
to meet the 24 elders someday?
00:55:29.38\00:55:32.33
Are we going to meet the
representatives of the worlds
00:55:33.22\00:55:35.57
Yes, because when the great
multitude is there, the elders
00:55:35.61\00:55:37.93
are there.
00:55:37.96\00:55:40.04
Next place they are
found is Revelation 11:16-17
00:55:40.97\00:55:44.55
We don't have time to read
all these verses, but I want to.
00:55:44.59\00:55:47.53
Revelation 11:16-17, it speaks
about the moment when Jesus
00:55:47.57\00:55:50.48
Christ receives his
kingdom at the end of time.
00:55:50.51\00:55:54.22
Present there, once
again, are the 24 elders.
00:55:54.26\00:55:57.94
They are mention
in Revelation 14:3.
00:55:58.62\00:56:02.10
In revelation 14:3, we find
a description of the 144,000
00:56:02.14\00:56:07.62
they are standing on
Mount Zion, they're victorious
00:56:07.65\00:56:10.22
They have overcome the beast his
image and they refused the mark
00:56:10.26\00:56:14.77
Now they are victorious on
Mt. Zion, and along with them
00:56:15.49\00:56:19.38
are the 24 elders.
00:56:19.39\00:56:22.81
The final reference
is in Revelation 15.
00:56:22.85\00:56:26.77
There we find a great multitude
in heaven. By the way, the Lamb
00:56:26.81\00:56:29.59
is there, the four
living creatures are there,
00:56:29.63\00:56:31.63
the one who is
seated on the throne.
00:56:31.66\00:56:33.27
All of the beings
mentioned in Rev 4 and 5
00:56:33.31\00:56:35.94
are there.
00:56:35.97\00:56:39.15
They are singing a
song, in honor of God.
00:56:39.16\00:56:43.41
No longer is he the creator
only, not the redeemer only,
00:56:44.09\00:56:48.85
but has judged the great harlot,
who persecuted God people.
00:56:48.89\00:56:53.62
He has delivered God's
people from their enemies.
00:56:53.65\00:56:57.91
Now they stand in heaven,
victorious along the 24 elders
00:56:57.95\00:57:02.16
singing praises to the one
who is sitting on the throne.
00:57:02.19\00:57:06.37
The good news is, very soon we
are going to meet the 24 elders.
00:57:07.78\00:57:10.84
Isn't this good news? We'll
be able the beings from other
00:57:11.48\00:57:14.55
worlds. Some people are bent
out of shape because Ellen White
00:57:14.58\00:57:17.60
Says that she once spoke to
someone from a different world
00:57:17.64\00:57:20.63
It shouldn't bend you out
of shape, we find in Revelation
00:57:21.18\00:57:23.44
6 and 7, that John is
speaking to one of the elders.
00:57:23.47\00:57:27.42
Isn't God
wonderful? Praise the Lord.
00:57:27.45\00:57:30.76