Hi Cliff Goldstein and I want
to welcome you to the Program
00:00:21.17\00:00:24.74
Contending for the Faith
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The text in the Word of
God I'd like to start with
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are found in the book of Romans
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and I suppose if there
were one book in the Bible
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that, perhaps
more than any other
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revealed the full scope
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spiritually and theologically
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the human condition, it
would be the book of Romans
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so much of the
meaning of sacred history
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You know Paul talks about Adam
and Abraham, Sarah and Jacob
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Esau, Rebecca, Moses, David
the fall, Sinai, Jews, Gentiles
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of law, grace, sin and death
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and first and
foremost he talks about Jesus
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and what Jesus has done for us
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I don't think I can
exaggerate if I could say that
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over the course of history
you could've filled a library
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a small or even a large library
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with the books
written on just Romans
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and I don't
think we can exaggerate
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the influence of this book
on the history of the church
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and certainly on Protestantism
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Now the texts I wanna look at
are at the beginning of the book
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and early on they
help flesh out what Paul
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or they they lay the groundwork
for what Paul fleshes out
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in the ensuing chapters
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Here Paul talks about a
crucial theme in the book
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and that's human sinfulness
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I mean the whole
premise of the book
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rests on that idea, that of
human corruption and how Jesus
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and how Jesus came
to solve the problem
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of human corruption and to
save us from the destruction
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that this corruption would bring
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That's what the
cross was all about
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to solve the problem of sin
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But I want to focus
on something else here
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is the claim that he says
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is that the reality
and existence of God
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is revealed
through what has been made
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that is in the created world
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these people are gonna,
that what has been made in the
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created world, in other words
he's saying that creation has
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revealed enough about God
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That they will be without excuse
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From the creation alone
they can learn enough about
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God. That they can
be justly condemned
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on the day of judgment
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Ooh! That's a
heavy claim it really is.
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And it's not because
these people are stupid
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It's not because
they can't understand
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Rather it's that they're sinful,
fallen and in their sinfulness
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and fallenness
they suppress the truth
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You know I could
understand this to myself
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from a personal experience
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I remember many
years ago in college
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I wasn't a believer and I
remember every now and then
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I'd read, I'd think
about things I'd talk to people
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And every now and then
the idea would come to me
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I would think Hmm, maybe
there really is a God out there
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And maybe there is a creator
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But then as I think
about that a little more
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And then I'd think
about the way I lived
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And even though I didn't
know anything about the law
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anything about
these things I sensed
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that if there
really was a God out there
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then how I'm livin,
I'm in deep, deep trouble
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And so in a sense I
pushed the idea out of my mind
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I just rejected the idea
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So I guess in a sense you
could say I suppressed the truth
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in unrighteousness and I just
kept on truckin, as they say
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Fortunately, as they say 2 years
later God did an intervention
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which is why, now
thanks to the Gospel,
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thanks to the
promise of salvation
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I'm aware of my
sinfulness I'm still aware of it
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but I claim the gospel promise
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and that's my assurance
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And thus my
eyes have been opened
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And you know, no matter
how hokey it might sound
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And I really mean this. I see
the reality of God everywhere
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I really do, it's amazing!
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First, that anything exists
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is to me that
anything exists whatever it is
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is powerful
evidence for a creator.
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I'm sorry but rocks, tea kettles
stars, iPhones, quasars, space
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nothing came from
itself, nothing created itself
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that's impossible
because to create yourself
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you'd have to already
exist and if you already existed
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then you were not creating your-
self 'coz you were already there
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No, nothing can create itself
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Instead what was created was
created by something before it
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and whatever that was,
something was created before it
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and something
created it and on and on on
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till you get to
that which was uncreated
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That which always existed
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and who or what else
would that be but the God
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depicted in the Scriptures
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the God depicted
in Revelation 4:11
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You are worthy O Lord
and God to receive glory
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and honor and power,
for you created all things
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and by Your will they were
created and have their being
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I'm sorry but the scientific fad
and yes, science is very faddish
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The scientific fad which claims
the universe arose from nothing
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is mere ad hoc
metaphysical speculation
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that comes garbed with all
the epistemological privilege
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that science
sanctimoniously awards itself
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and what we are saying,
and what we are saying is Yes
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that's what they're saying was
that the universe was created
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by nothing at all. You
know here we are 400 years
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after the beginning
of the enlightenment
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and the scientific revolution
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and we are being now told
that out of nothing everything
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that exists came from,
let me read you a quote.
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Oxford's Peter Atkins summed
it up the best. Listen to this
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Sorry, but that's
metaphysics, that's not physics
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That's
philosophy, that's not science
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Centuries ago a German polymath
named Godfrey Wilhelm Liebknecht
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famously asked what's
probably the most fundamental
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and basic question
that anybody could ask
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I think this gets about
as conceptually as far back
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as we can go. Why, he
asked. Why is there something
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instead of nothing?
And the most logical answer
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remains what has always been
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Because a self
existing and eternal God
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created everything that was made
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As John said, "Through
Him were all things made"
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Without Him nothing
was made that has been made
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This, despite firm
declarations of many scientists
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backed up rigorous
laboratory experiments
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and a few equations to boot,
this, that they are claiming
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that God doesn't exist and
that we're here by chance alone
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Nobel prize winning
physicist Stephen Hawkings
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expressed it like this:
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Stephen Weinberg
rather, not Stephen Hawkings
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He said this: The most
extreme hope for science
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is that we will be able
to trace the explanation
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for all natural
phenomena, to final laws
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and historical accidents. I
don't know, to me it's crazy
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2500 years of
Western thought climaxes
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with the idea that
everything arose from nothing?
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and it did it by
accident as well?
00:10:17.67\00:10:20.80
Makes me think of Richard
Rorty one of the most famous
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philosophers in the first half
of the, last half of the 20th C
00:10:25.46\00:10:30.15
Rorty basically argued that
we're never gonna find truth
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It's impossible to find truth
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and that the whole
concept of truth is misguided
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and basically he said "instead
of trying to understand reality
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and understand these things, he
says all we can hope for is to
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learn how to cope with it
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I don't know. Again
2500 years of Western thought
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climaxes with the idea that the
universe arose out of nothing,
00:10:55.30\00:10:59.30
by accident, and we can never
understand it so all we need
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to do is to try to cope instead
00:11:03.88\00:11:06.38
Somehow folks, somehow I'm
not so sure that's much progress
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Next, despite being
told from the Intelligentsia
00:11:13.34\00:11:18.01
the opposite. Design in the
created world still declares
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a Designer. Some of
my favorite texts in
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all the Bible come from Job
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Wow! It's as if Job here
is expressing what Paul did
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many years later. You
know for centuries now
00:11:57.69\00:12:02.12
people have surrendered
the Teleological argument, the
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argument of purpose and design
00:12:06.62\00:12:08.60
To David Humes book called
00:12:08.63\00:12:11.31
The Dialogues
Concerning Natural Religion
00:12:11.34\00:12:14.52
You know I read the Dialogues
and they've capitulated to a
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Potemkin village and I
think a shoddy one at that
00:12:19.26\00:12:23.20
I've read Hume's book,
I've read it numerous times
00:12:23.23\00:12:26.93
and he doesn't do what,
his argument against the
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existence of God doesn't work
00:12:30.83\00:12:33.17
It doesn't do what
even, what these people,
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even some
Christians claim that it does
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All Hume shows, all he
says is the mere fact that
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if a man finds a watch on
the ground, infers a designer
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it does not absolutely prove
that God created the world.
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Well duh! It's
not absolute proof
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I don't think it was ever
meant to be absolute proof
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It's an inference ok.
One can move logically
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from the concept
of design by humanity
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to the concept
of design by creator
00:13:03.49\00:13:06.60
The issue is the
reality of purpose and design
00:13:06.63\00:13:10.49
which itself
points to a designer
00:13:10.52\00:13:13.05
who created with purpose
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regardless of whether
it was a human watchmaker
00:13:14.91\00:13:18.02
or the creator God. An
iPhone which looks designed
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acts designed, reveals design
in its inwards and its outers
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in outward parts and
works only through design
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is of course designed
00:13:31.74\00:13:34.50
But a human being, qualitatively
more complex than a smart phone
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A human being which
looks designed, acts designed
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reveals design in its
inwards and its outwards
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and works only through design
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is of course, we
assume, we are assured by the
00:13:49.26\00:13:53.15
best and
brightest, it's not design!
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I don't know. Maybe I'm
not sophisticated enough
00:13:56.21\00:13:59.36
But who am I to believe?
00:13:59.39\00:14:00.97
Richard Dawkins, Charles
Darwin, Christopher Hitchen
00:14:01.00\00:14:04.52
or my own eyes and my own brain
00:14:04.55\00:14:07.43
brain, as well as
Moses, Isaiah, John and Paul
00:14:07.46\00:14:12.11
Again, maybe I'm
not too sophisticated
00:14:12.14\00:14:15.21
But when I see
design in anything
00:14:15.24\00:14:18.61
I see evidence of a designer
00:14:18.64\00:14:21.11
whether it's something
manmade or something in nature
00:14:21.14\00:14:24.36
it doesn't matter to me.
Design points to a designer
00:14:24.39\00:14:28.88
Whether I happen to know this
designer is in Silicon Valley
00:14:28.91\00:14:32.38
someone who I
could see face to face
00:14:32.41\00:14:34.78
if need be or whether
he's somewhere in the cosmos
00:14:34.81\00:14:37.77
and for now I can't see Him.
00:14:37.80\00:14:40.04
And again because I see the
reality of design everywhere
00:14:45.97\00:14:51.20
I see the reality
of God everywhere.
00:14:51.23\00:14:55.36
And of course the biggest
question and a fair question too
00:14:55.39\00:15:01.35
has to do with the existence
about the existence of God
00:15:01.38\00:15:04.91
that is evil. Though that's
tough questions for anyone
00:15:04.94\00:15:08.33
to deal with. I don't know if
you ever get a chance it's worth
00:15:08.36\00:15:11.95
reading a section in
Dostoevsky The Brothers Karmazov
00:15:11.98\00:15:15.94
Two brothers wrestle with the
question of the existence of God
00:15:15.97\00:15:20.34
And how an all powerful,
all knowing God could exist
00:15:20.37\00:15:24.35
while evil does as well. I want
to read you one section where
00:15:24.38\00:15:28.99
1 person symbolizing skepticism,
someone asks questions
00:15:29.02\00:15:34.75
"I want to see with my own eyes
the hind lie down with the lion
00:15:34.78\00:15:39.32
and the victim rise up
and embrace his murderer
00:15:39.35\00:15:42.02
I want to be there when
everyone suddenly understands
00:15:42.05\00:15:45.05
what it's all been for.
But then there are the children
00:15:45.08\00:15:49.26
What am I to do about them? This
is a question I can't answer
00:15:49.29\00:15:54.36
For the 100th time I repeat
there are a number of questions
00:15:54.39\00:15:58.21
But I've taken only the children
00:15:58.24\00:16:00.84
because in their case what I
mean is so unanswerably clear
00:16:00.87\00:16:05.01
Listen. If all must
pay for the eternal harmony
00:16:05.04\00:16:09.67
What have children to do with it
00:16:09.70\00:16:12.32
Please, tell me please."
00:16:12.35\00:16:15.11
Yeah, that's the question
is it? That's the question.
00:16:15.14\00:16:21.22
Evil and children suffering
in a world created by a good God
00:16:21.25\00:16:27.26
And though I don't have
time to get into all that now
00:16:27.29\00:16:30.17
All I can say is this. I
know nothing in the premise
00:16:30.20\00:16:34.42
of an all loving, all
knowing and all powerful God
00:16:34.45\00:16:38.24
deductively demands
the non existence of evil
00:16:38.27\00:16:42.98
It doesn't automatically follow
00:16:43.01\00:16:45.44
It's not a logical condition.
It's not a logical contradiction
00:16:45.47\00:16:50.13
It's not as if you're saying
A equals not A or the like
00:16:50.16\00:16:54.50
Instead the great controversy
forms a powerful template
00:16:54.53\00:17:00.85
and a background that
enables me to press on in faith
00:17:00.88\00:17:04.73
despite all the evil
that rattles our souls
00:17:04.76\00:17:08.04
I can see the reality
of God even with the evil
00:17:08.07\00:17:12.66
because this evil
shows me how terribly wrong
00:17:12.69\00:17:16.44
everything has
become and that fits so well
00:17:16.47\00:17:20.67
into the great controversy.
00:17:20.70\00:17:22.79
See, yet time and time again
I have to fall back on that
00:17:22.82\00:17:27.28
metanarrative because its
the only thing that helps me
00:17:27.31\00:17:30.60
make sense of what doesn't seem
at times to make sense at all
00:17:30.63\00:17:34.95
You know I once
read a powerful article
00:17:34.98\00:17:39.86
about a woman wrote
about her time teaching poetry
00:17:39.89\00:17:44.29
and writing to children
dying at a cancer center
00:17:44.32\00:17:48.38
And listen to
what this woman wrote:
00:17:48.41\00:17:51.64
"The children I write with die.
No matter how much I love them
00:17:51.67\00:17:57.32
No matter how creative they
are. No matter how many poems
00:17:57.35\00:18:01.52
they have written or
how much they want to live"
00:18:01.55\00:18:05.76
Almost every line in
this article is a zinger
00:18:05.79\00:18:09.96
And how can it not,
considering the topic
00:18:09.99\00:18:12.81
Kids in the context of, in the
context of children suffering
00:18:12.84\00:18:18.01
and dying of cancer. But in this
context 1 line really caught me.
00:18:18.04\00:18:23.78
and she said this,
in this whole context
00:18:23.81\00:18:28.09
I was, like everybody else
00:18:28.12\00:18:31.06
trying to make sense of what is
nonsensical. Whoa! Nonsensical?
00:18:31.09\00:18:39.78
That is none of it made sense.
It can't be rationally explained
00:18:39.81\00:18:44.85
There's no good reason for
it. And yet, is it that better
00:18:44.88\00:18:51.01
y'know, is it
that better that evil
00:18:51.04\00:18:53.37
and children
dying of cancer is evil
00:18:53.40\00:18:56.00
isn't it better that it be
non- sensical and non rational
00:18:56.03\00:19:00.20
or non logical
or not explicable?
00:19:00.23\00:19:02.86
Otherwise what? Otherwise what?
You have good logical harmonious
00:19:02.89\00:19:08.40
reasons exist why these kids
lose limbs, suffer horrific pain
00:19:08.43\00:19:13.26
suffer the trauma of
chemo, go through all that,
00:19:13.29\00:19:16.41
sit in the hospital
for years and then die?
00:19:16.44\00:19:19.92
Please. If there were good
reason, logical reason for that
00:19:19.95\00:19:24.44
I really wouldn't wanna know it.
00:19:24.47\00:19:27.16
However bad these
tragedies are it would be worse
00:19:27.19\00:19:30.94
if there were sense to them.
That's why its all nonsense.
00:19:30.97\00:19:37.30
And again that's why I go back
00:19:37.33\00:19:39.69
to the larger theme
of the great controversy
00:19:39.72\00:19:43.22
The large cosmic theme about
the battle between good and evil
00:19:43.25\00:19:47.69
that Jesus won
for us at the cross
00:19:47.72\00:19:50.43
That's the only
template I use to help me
00:19:50.46\00:19:52.98
If not make sense
or fully understand
00:19:53.01\00:19:56.07
what's going on, at least
put it in a larger perspective.
00:19:56.10\00:19:59.73
One that gives me
hope for a resolution.
00:19:59.76\00:20:03.11
Sure we have a million
questions about a million things
00:20:03.14\00:20:07.24
But still this grand theme helps
me to keep it altogether now.
00:20:07.27\00:20:12.18
No matter how
much remains unanswered
00:20:12.21\00:20:15.54
and perhaps unanswerable.
00:20:15.57\00:20:19.56
Ok sure someone could justly
argue that with this template
00:20:19.59\00:20:25.00
I'm working from a
priori presuppositions about
00:20:25.03\00:20:29.26
how the world
works. And that's true.
00:20:29.29\00:20:31.76
Though trust me
they're not a priori
00:20:31.79\00:20:34.41
But again they
are pre suppositions
00:20:34.44\00:20:37.41
But so what? Nothing can be
believed without presuppositions
00:20:37.44\00:20:41.86
You can't believe in anything
without certain assumptions
00:20:41.89\00:20:44.88
Things you can't prove. No
these assumptions are things
00:20:44.91\00:20:48.29
that you just accept on
faith. They're assumptions.
00:20:48.32\00:20:52.23
The key though is to
have the correct ones.
00:20:52.26\00:20:55.66
You know I remember early on
00:20:55.69\00:20:58.39
as a believer in Jesus.
When I was a brand new believer
00:20:58.42\00:21:03.24
weeks into this. I remember
I asked a friend out there
00:21:03.27\00:21:09.94
With so many faiths
and religions out there,
00:21:09.97\00:21:13.59
How do I know that
Adventism how do I know that
00:21:13.62\00:21:16.02
this is the truth? And
I'll never forget Bernie Molnar
00:21:16.05\00:21:21.93
who just passed away a while
back. He was one of my first
00:21:21.96\00:21:25.82
SDA contacts. He instantly
answered. He said, well,
00:21:25.85\00:21:31.85
he said it's certainly
not unreasonable to think
00:21:31.88\00:21:34.99
that with all
those views out there,
00:21:35.02\00:21:37.16
at least one of them is true.
00:21:37.19\00:21:39.36
I thought, wasn't
that a great answer?
00:21:39.39\00:21:43.29
Doesn't that make good sense?
00:21:43.32\00:21:46.68
I appreciated that answer
back then when I was a brand new
00:21:46.71\00:21:50.55
believer barely
knowing anything.
00:21:50.58\00:21:53.18
And here I am
today, 34 years later
00:21:53.21\00:21:58.74
and I still fall back on that
00:21:58.77\00:22:01.72
because I believe its
built on correct assumptions.
00:22:01.75\00:22:06.50
Yes, I do see the reality of God
everywhere, even despite evil
00:22:06.53\00:22:15.64
And I look up in the sky
and I see the reality of God
00:22:15.67\00:22:21.57
whether I'm looking at
the clouds above, the blue sky
00:22:21.60\00:22:25.82
a sky full of stars at night
00:22:25.85\00:22:28.89
whether I look
through a telescope
00:22:28.92\00:22:30.85
or look at the pictures
through the Hubble telescope
00:22:30.88\00:22:33.72
I see the reality of God. It's
the most logical explanation
00:22:33.75\00:22:39.78
for all that I
see. I look at my iPhone
00:22:39.81\00:22:44.75
I look at my iPhone and I see
evidence for the reality of God.
00:22:44.78\00:22:52.92
OK, I see it's
there, I see design.
00:22:52.95\00:22:56.45
I see powerful design in here.
00:22:56.48\00:23:00.00
It's design and
nothing's gonna tell it's not.
00:23:00.03\00:23:02.61
and yet there's nowhere
near the design in this thing
00:23:02.64\00:23:05.89
as I see in a single human cell.
00:23:05.92\00:23:09.46
And that's why when I
look at this I see evidence
00:23:09.49\00:23:13.69
for the reality of God.
00:23:13.72\00:23:16.17
I look at rocks. I look
at a rock and I see evidence
00:23:16.20\00:23:21.52
for the reality of
God because that rock
00:23:21.55\00:23:24.04
contrary to the
latest and greatest science,
00:23:24.07\00:23:27.11
contrary to what so many
noble laureates and physicists
00:23:27.14\00:23:32.08
are telling us that
rock did come from nothing
00:23:32.11\00:23:37.83
Something had to create it.
00:23:37.86\00:23:40.48
I look inside my own soul,
I look in my own consciousness
00:23:40.51\00:23:45.22
and I can see the reality of God
00:23:45.25\00:23:48.35
Because where could
this all have come from?
00:23:48.38\00:23:51.86
I don't believe it
rose out of nothing.
00:23:51.89\00:23:55.92
And I don't believe
it rose out of chance
00:23:55.95\00:23:59.07
So where else but God?
00:23:59.10\00:24:02.21
I think of Immanuel
Kahn's famous saying
00:24:02.24\00:24:06.52
Very interesting. And though
I wouldn't quite phrase it
00:24:26.66\00:24:31.22
as he did, the more steadily
I reflect on everything.
00:24:31.25\00:24:36.74
That is, houses,
butterflies, smart phones.
00:24:36.77\00:24:40.55
It's undeniable to me
that a creator would exist.
00:24:40.58\00:24:45.82
And with the grand revelation
of Him as revealed in the Bible
00:24:45.85\00:24:51.80
which includes powerful evidence
00:24:51.83\00:24:55.63
for the resurrection of Jesus
00:24:55.66\00:24:57.98
with the confirming ministry
of the Spirit of Prophecy
00:24:58.01\00:25:02.70
and my own life
changing experience with Jesus
00:25:02.73\00:25:06.59
and the assurance of
salvation that comes because
00:25:06.62\00:25:09.76
of His death in my behalf
00:25:09.79\00:25:12.11
and His
righteousness covering me
00:25:12.14\00:25:14.45
it's no wonder
that I believe in God!
00:25:14.48\00:25:17.42
and no wonder I'm a
Seventh Day Adventist
00:25:17.45\00:25:21.35
With those things what
else could, could I be?
00:25:21.38\00:25:25.65
I want to return
to Paul in Romans.
00:25:25.68\00:25:30.70
Into those same verses we
looked at in the beginning.
00:25:30.73\00:25:34.44
Again that's heavy
there. Without excuse.
00:26:13.56\00:26:17.61
But notice what he said.
For what may be known about God
00:26:17.64\00:26:24.70
is plain, is made plain to them.
00:26:24.73\00:26:28.00
Ok? This implies that
there are aspects about God
00:26:28.03\00:26:31.81
that aren't revealed to them.
00:26:31.84\00:26:33.59
Because what may be
known is explained to them
00:26:33.62\00:26:36.44
Maybe there are obviously
some things that are not known.
00:26:36.47\00:26:39.68
Which of course makes
sense. I mean he's a believer
00:26:39.71\00:26:43.84
as someone who knows
the Lord, knows the Gospel,
00:26:43.87\00:26:47.30
knows the truth of salvation
00:26:47.33\00:26:49.91
that hardly means I
have all the answers.
00:26:49.94\00:26:53.15
What, are you kidding me?
00:26:53.18\00:26:54.83
I mean if I have
intellectual nightmares
00:26:54.86\00:26:59.18
maybe somebody
could explain this to me.
00:26:59.21\00:27:01.54
I have intellectual
nightmares over the fact that -6
00:27:01.57\00:27:06.08
multiplied by -6 gives you a +36
00:27:06.11\00:27:10.78
And yet you could take
-6+-6 -6+-6+-6 and you get-36
00:27:10.81\00:27:21.33
I go nuts trying to figure out
how you can make sense of that.
00:27:21.36\00:27:25.55
How does that work? You multiply
em, two negative numbers
00:27:25.58\00:27:29.36
and you get a positive number.
00:27:29.39\00:27:30.87
You add them together and
you get a negative number.
00:27:30.90\00:27:34.59
Now, if I can't
make sense out of that
00:27:34.62\00:27:39.69
how am I going to make
sense out of the holocaust,
00:27:39.72\00:27:44.23
the Trinity or how am I going
to fully understand Daniel 11?
00:27:44.26\00:27:50.54
I can't. But who
cares? I don't care.
00:27:50.57\00:27:56.40
I can still see the
reality of God in everything.
00:27:56.43\00:28:01.87
Even in all that I don't
know and understand about Him
00:28:01.90\00:28:06.30
and in the world, in the
world that He had created.
00:28:06.33\00:28:12.33
I can see it even regardless
of what I don't understand.
00:28:12.36\00:28:17.88