Participants: Alex Schlusser (Host), Rachael Hyman (Host), Sasha Bolotnikov
Series Code: BTOR
Program Code: BTOR000018
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00:01 Everybody has different opinions
00:02 on what the Lord's Supper is all about. 00:04 Join us today on "Back to Our Roots" 00:06 as we talk about this topic. 00:28 Welcome once again to "Back to Our Roots." 00:30 I'm your host Pastor Alex Schussler 00:32 and my co-host-- Rachael Hyman. 00:34 And we want to welcome and thank you 00:35 that you have joined us today. 00:37 Our topic today we're gonna be speaking about the Lord's Table. 00:40 People also use the term communion 00:42 when they are talking in terms. 00:44 Rachel, what-- I know we've shared 00:46 some pretty interesting stories. 00:47 What was your experience as a Jewish believer, 00:50 the first time you were introduced to that? 00:53 Well, my mom actually converted to Catholicism 00:56 when I was about 12 years old when she remarried. 00:59 Yeah, and for the first time in my life 01:01 we visited a Catholic Church and I saw my mom open her mouth 01:05 like this as the priest put this round white wafer in her mouth. 01:11 And I remember participating with her 01:13 because she pressured us into it, 01:14 but feeling like I had absolutely no idea 01:17 what I was doing and everybody was just standing in line 01:19 waiting for their wafer and calling this 01:22 somehow the body of Christ somehow 01:25 and to be honest I was really weird it out. 01:27 I was really weird it out. 01:29 You know, what's interesting is that, I have to say, 01:32 my experience was almost identical. 01:34 It wasn't my mom, but it was friends of mine 01:38 that they also were Catholics and, you know, 01:41 I had gone to church with them 01:42 and here I was a nice Jewish boy from Miami 01:45 going, you know, to the Catholic Church 01:47 and watching them. 01:48 I sat in the back, I didn't go forward. 01:50 I sat in the back and I watched. 01:52 You are a good Jewish boy 01:53 Well. Unlike me. 01:54 I watched them, you know, take the wafer and drink 01:58 and the whole body of Christ thing, I was so confused. 02:01 It's weird, huh? 02:02 I didn't, what are they talking about? 02:05 It's like this little, you know, 02:07 I know that there's so many different ideas and concepts 02:12 about the Lord's table about communion, 02:15 about its origins, what really is it? 02:19 What is it mean? What can we draw from it? 02:22 And we're going to be talking about that great detail today 02:25 and we are going to especially take a look at the Passover 02:30 because without really understanding the Passover, 02:33 I don't think that we can fully understand 02:37 what exactly happened, especially when we go back 02:40 talking in the context of Jesus and the first Lord's Table, 02:44 when He shared with His disciples. 02:46 So before we get too deep into the program 02:49 we want to invite our friend Alexander Bolotnikov, 02:52 Dr. Alexander Bolotnikov. We call him Sasha. 02:55 To join us he is our-- as we say resident theologian. 02:59 He brings a deeper meaning to each topic. 03:04 Yeah, good to see you, Rachel. How are you doing buddy? 03:05 Good to see you, Alex. Good to see you, Sasha. 03:07 So today, Sasha, we're talking about the Lord's Table. 03:11 And we are talking about the Lord's Table 03:13 and how it draws without a doubt 03:16 its traditions from what is know as the Passover. 03:20 So, Sasha, why don't we just jump into it? 03:24 And we want to share what we understand 03:29 or what we know about the Passover service 03:31 to set the groundwork because we're gonna refer to this 03:35 quite a bit through our talk today. 03:40 One of the things that's important 03:42 I think for us to understand is that 03:44 the Jewish people are very based on tradition. 03:47 That, you can almost count on that the things that were done 03:52 hundreds and hundreds of years ago 03:54 are pretty much done even today. 03:58 May be some differences 04:00 but the elements remain very much the same. 04:02 Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. 04:03 And we will see in our program, 04:06 in our discussion that indeed they were the same 04:12 at least in many ways as we see them today in Judaism 04:18 and basically first of all we need to say that. 04:26 What is known as a Last Supper today? 04:31 The story Jesus sat with the disciples in the upper room. 04:36 The Gospel of Matthew Chapter 26 04:39 clearly speaks and calls it a Passover. 04:44 The disciples asks Jesus specific question. 04:49 When where shall we prepare a Passover for you? 04:54 Right, right. 04:55 What confuses many Christians is, 04:59 they look at the Passover described in the Book of Exodus. 05:04 Exactly. 05:05 Where Passover is the lamb. 05:08 So many Christians erroneously assume 05:15 that disciples actually killed the lamb 05:22 and they were having a sacrifice in the upper room. 05:25 But you know as we talked about in a previous program, 05:28 we dealt with Passover in detail. 05:32 And we opened up and explored the idea 05:36 that Jesus was in fact that perfect lamb 05:39 that the time when the lambs were being slaughtered, 05:42 Jesus was dying on the cross for us. 05:45 So what they are doing is-- 05:49 it is what we would know as a Seder. Exactly. 05:52 Okay, but it wasn't the slaughter of the lamb. 05:55 This is-- this has nothing to do 05:57 with the temple Passover sacrifice. 06:00 Exact. So let's talk this a little-- 06:02 Even though it was on the same exact time 06:04 as the regular Passover or it was little earlier? 06:06 It was on the day exact-- 06:07 Well, we have-- it's a good question, Rachel. 06:10 We have to see the progression. 06:13 We're talking 14th of Nisan. 06:16 On the 14th of Nisan people of Israel 06:20 had this last night with their belts 06:25 and their clothes with their shoes on with the sock-- 06:28 Now, we're talking in the context of the Exodus. 06:30 Yes, that's-- Okay. 06:32 Well, what happens next, 06:34 this is one time event in history. 06:37 What happens next the Book of Deuteronomy comes in. 06:40 1 Deuteronomy 16 strictly forbids 06:43 to kill any lamb in the house. Right. 06:46 And that's why we have in the temple tradition, 06:51 a commemoration of Exodus through sacrificial service. 06:57 And really that becomes the basic concept 07:00 of the Passover itself is that it is now 07:04 a ritualistic commemoration 07:06 remembering those things that happened 07:10 as God drew the people out of Egypt. 07:13 And that's why Leviticus 23 sets up the Passover sacrifice 07:19 which is different than what was happening actually in Egypt. 07:25 So--but as Alex explained it out 07:29 what Jesus and disciples did 07:32 happened before and, you know, 07:35 basically a day ahead of the Passover sacrifice. 07:40 In other words it happened at the beginning of 14th of Nisan 07:44 while the Passover sacrifice at the temple 07:47 is at the end of 14th of Nisan. 07:49 So, you know, this I may be stating the obvious 07:52 but remember that we're reckoning time 07:55 from sun down to sun down, that represents a day. 07:58 Right. 07:59 Not as we would in Western culture 08:01 think it's when the sun comes up, 08:02 that's the beginning of a day. 08:04 So they were having the Seder 08:05 when they were supposed to be having a Seder 08:06 and Jesus died when the lamb was supposed to be saved. 08:08 Exactly, but that's what you mentioned. 08:11 The Seder is just a commemorative meal. 08:14 Ritualistic meal. 08:15 Yeah, not even the ritual but commemorative. 08:18 Ritual was at the temple that was at-- 08:20 Yeah, but I think that we could say, 08:22 'cause there were specific things 08:24 that we need to talk about real quickly, 08:26 that God commanded that there were elements 08:29 that we, that the Jewish people needed to bring in, 08:33 things that needed to be present. 08:35 Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely. 08:36 So let's talk about that a little bit, Sasha. 08:37 So in the first century I know that things were added later. 08:42 But in the first century what can we-- 08:46 for the most part understand were the elements 08:48 that were used in that ritualistic meal, 08:51 what we know as a Seder. 08:52 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 08:54 What we see very specific traditional 08:57 is usage of the wine. 09:01 Okay, so there is a wine, there is also-- 09:03 Unfermented of course. 09:05 Well, some people would say that. 09:07 Well, that's another discussion. 09:08 That's another discussion. For another program. 09:11 Yeah, let's not discuss that part right now. 09:15 And I don't think that's the point, this point. 09:20 So what are the elements do we have, Sasha? 09:23 We have the wine. 09:24 So we have wine and that's what sets it apart form Exodus 12 09:28 which never talks about the wine. 09:30 So we have particularly four cups of wine 09:34 which are may be like this its kind of a large cups and-- 09:39 We have some herbs. 09:41 Yeah, the bitter herbs, 09:43 the unleavened bread know as Matzah. 09:47 And the, well, they had some sweet. 09:51 You know, today it's used it's what's called Kharoses, 09:54 I don't know how to explain it. 09:56 Well, yes, it's basically apples and honey and nuts mixed. 10:00 And raisins may be. 10:02 Yeah, mixed together in like a little-- 10:04 Sort of remembering this hard labor, 10:08 the mortar they did for the bricks. 10:11 You know, so this is the element, major element. 10:15 But in the context of the Lord's Table 10:17 and in the context of the discussion 10:19 that we have here, the two things 10:22 that are definitely come up is the Matzah 10:26 and the cups of the fruit of the wine. 10:27 And the bitter herbs. Because they dip. 10:31 Yeah, they dip. 10:32 And you remember how Jesus dipped the Matzah 10:36 into the bitter herbs and gave it to Judas. 10:39 And well, he said, yeah, the one who eats after this 10:41 is the one that's going to betray me. 10:42 Yeah. So-- 10:45 So, but the cups-- this is how we know 10:47 that it was traditional rabbinic Passovers. 10:50 Well, this also becomes then evidence 10:54 I believe that, yes one Jesus and His followers 11:01 were in fact celebrating a Passover Seder 11:04 without a doubt based on the set up, 11:07 the elements and everything. 11:10 The other thing just as a little sidebar, Sasha, 11:12 and I wonder what your feelings about this. 11:14 I've always thought that this picture 11:17 that we have like Leonardo Da Vinci 11:18 paints of the last supper. 11:20 You know, of all these men sitting at the table. 11:23 You know, straight across in a line is not true at all. 11:27 This is like-- this is like a picture 11:29 of the dining room of Italian convent. 11:35 So, I think more likely they were sitting in 11:40 like a horse shoe type of shape, 11:42 the tables would have been more like that maybe. 11:45 It was very low because first of all 11:47 they were kind of sitting down on the floor. 11:50 And they were supposed to recline, 11:53 you know, you got your-- 11:54 That's how we know that when it talks about 11:56 how John laid his head on the bosom of Jesus. 12:00 You know, he did like in the chair pulled Jesus over 12:02 and no, because of how they were laying 12:05 and it was very easy for him 12:06 just to lay back in there, he was. 12:09 You lean your right elbow 12:11 against the left knee of your body. 12:15 And what is that symbolize again? 12:16 Unity. Well, and being free. 12:18 Two, it's a symbol of freedom. Yeah, exactly. 12:20 That a rich man ate reclining while a poor man ate standing. 12:26 Yeah, that's right. It's a-- 12:28 And the other thing is that-- I also think 12:30 that there was way more than just the disciples there 12:35 because I think Jesus is acting as the leader of their family, 12:39 their group and Passover 12:42 and the Seder meal is a family event. 12:44 It centers on the children, teaching them, 12:46 passing on the story of what happened. 12:50 So there would have been 12:51 women and children in the picture as well. 12:55 You know, in Deuteronomy, you teach it, you teach it, 12:57 when your child asks that's and they even haven't, you know-- 13:02 The four questions. 13:04 Which is part of the service today. Yeah. 13:06 So, we've already talked about the ritual 13:12 based on Exodus Chapter 12 13:14 and we kind of brought it up-to-date. 13:16 But let's really focus now on what exactly Jesus is doing 13:20 because we don't want to short cut any of that. 13:22 We want to be able to take our time. 13:23 What we can see, 13:26 there are four cups during the Passover Seder. 13:31 Even today. Yeah, even today. 13:33 And those--I'm sorry, those come directly out of Exodus. 13:37 Those are the promises that God made, 13:39 that I will promises, right. 13:41 Yeah, they are based on Exodus 6. 13:45 "That I will take you out of Egypt. 13:47 I will make you my children. 13:50 I will free you from the bondage." 13:53 So this is kind of base, it's more or like 13:55 may be a homiletical base, 13:57 that each cup symbolizes the act of God, 14:01 the redemptive act of God during Exodus. 14:05 And it's important that the Jesus does it as Exodus 14:12 because we got to remember especially 14:15 in the Gospel of Matthew and Gospel of John. 14:18 Jesus has viewed as this leader of a new spiritual exodus 14:24 from the bondage of sin. 14:26 And so, what happens is, we see Gospel of Luke. 14:33 In the Gospel of Luke Chapter 22-- 14:35 So let me read this real quick. 14:38 Gospel of Luke Chapter 22. I'm gonna begin at verse 17. 14:43 "And He took the cup, He being Jesus. 14:45 "He took the cup and when He had given thanks He said, 14:49 "Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 14:52 For I tell you that from now on 14:54 I will not drink of the fruit of the wine 14:56 until the kingdom of God comes." 14:59 Okay. So let's stop right there and let's talk about the cup 15:02 because the next thing as He is going to go on 15:04 and He is going to talk about the bread. 15:05 Exactly. Right. 15:06 This is what makes it very unconventional for many people 15:11 because everybody especially in Protestant tradition know 15:16 you take the bread first and then you take the wine. 15:20 And in Luke verse 17, he takes the cup 15:23 and then he takes the bread, it's in reverse. 15:26 But if you read next verse 20, then it's again the cup. 15:31 So you have two cups, this is definitely the hint. 15:37 It's a very strong hint that there were other, 15:41 you know, we'll see another cup. 15:43 So we have two cups out of four. 15:46 What these two cups are? 15:50 This one cup which is in verse 17, 15:53 this is a cup of plagues. 15:57 That's the time when they drink this cup of wine 16:01 and they read the story. 16:04 You know, today they take, they dip the finger 16:08 and they remember the-- 16:09 Put a drop as we remember each one of the plague. 16:11 Each of the plagues, so they read how God rescued Israel 16:17 with wonders and signs and things like this. 16:20 Right and what about the second one? 16:21 The second cup is called the cup of redemption. 16:26 And that's interesting because when they take-- 16:30 no that's the third cup. 16:31 Right, right. 16:32 You know, that's the cup of redemption. 16:34 So the second cup. 16:35 So the second cup is the cup of plagues. 16:38 Okay, what about the first cup? 16:39 The first cup is called the cup of sanctification. 16:42 Okay, so we are going to jump-- 16:43 Where are you getting all of that from, 16:45 is that like tradition? 16:46 This is--its drawing from Exodus Chapter 6. Okay. 16:49 And then its rabbinic tradition applying the things, 16:52 the promises that God made to the Hebrews 16:55 in the context of the Passover. 16:56 In the Gospel of Luke and the Gospel of Matthew 16:59 prove that this was the case because what you have, 17:02 if you go sequence you read this gospel in, 17:05 you drink the first cup that's the sanctification. 17:09 You read the prayer of blessing. 17:11 You do the washing of the hands and by the way John 13 17:15 describes how everybody fights, 17:18 who is gonna wash the hands of Jesus 17:21 because that's the best disciples, you know, 17:24 mother of John and James wants some of them close by 17:28 and Jesus said nobody washes my hand, 17:30 I'm gonna wash everybody's feet. 17:32 Right. Which He takes on whole another thing. 17:35 So that's the one thing He definitely uses and changes. 17:40 And then you have cup of plagues, 17:43 that's when you read the story of Exodus and after that-- 17:47 Now we get to the third cup. 17:49 Now, the third cup, Sasha, let me interject. 17:52 I think is it more than likely at the point of this narrative 17:57 that this is where we are. 17:58 Exactly. That we're at the third cup. 17:59 That's the third cup of redemption. 18:00 'Cause this is when He says, I'm not going to drink it. 18:03 And again this is one of those things that so touches my heart 18:07 that here is Jesus saying, take this cup and drink it 18:12 but in the order of the service 18:14 this in fact is the cup of redemption. 18:16 That's the cup of redemption and that's the cup 18:19 that represents His blood. 18:21 But let's talk about the bread too. 18:24 Right, well-- So wait. 18:25 Did Jews today have that third cup and to them 18:28 does that signify redemption as well? 18:30 It is still redemption, yeah. It is still redemption. 18:32 Looking for the coming of the Messiah. 18:33 Of the Messiah, exactly. 18:34 So if we continue reading it says, "And he took bread, 18:37 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, gave it to them, 18:39 saying, 'This is my body, which is given for you. 18:41 Do this in remembrance of me. "' 18:43 Now, one of the things 18:45 also that I think most Christians 18:47 miss out on is that, you know, 18:50 the little pieces of bread or wafers or whatever 18:53 unleavened bread that goes out usually comes out in a tray 18:56 and everyone takes a little piece 18:58 but what we are missing here 19:00 is that Jesus would have taken this one piece of flat bread, 19:05 okay that He's saying, this represents my body. 19:09 He would have broken that one piece and I imagined Him 19:13 passing it to the left and passing it to the right 19:16 and each one of them breaking a piece off of the one 19:19 which really is way more symbolic of the idea that, look, 19:24 this is my body that's gonna be broken for you 19:28 and He doesn't say, this is my body. 19:30 So do this in remembrance of me. 19:33 And even Paul in Corinthians comes back and reiterates this. 19:37 That whenever you eat or you drink you know, 19:39 you remember the death of the Lord until He returns. 19:42 And that's exactly the meaning of the communes of remembering. 19:47 So in remembrance so-- the Bible does say 19:49 or Jesus does really say, I'm in this bread. 19:52 No, what's important is, 19:55 the reason why they used the Seders 19:58 to show that there is no temple sacrificial symbolic in it. 20:04 It's all symbolic and if you go to Matthew-- 20:08 if you go to Matthew it's very interesting. 20:10 Matthew 26 it says, Jesus it says that. 20:14 Matthew 26:26 "As they were eating, 20:18 after that He haven't eaten Jesus takes the bread." 20:21 This is what happens at the Seder today, 20:24 after there is a meal, there is a Seder 20:27 and then there is what's known as Afikoman. 20:29 Right, the last thing that you eat. 20:32 Afikoman, it's a Greek word for dessert. 20:36 But they didn't have this cake and stuff like this back then 20:40 for them dessert was aftertaste. 20:43 So this they break this little bread, little Matzah 20:49 and they eat it to create the aftertaste. 20:51 Aftertaste is the good memory trigger 20:56 and so Jesus takes this Afikoman 20:59 and He says, that's my body, 21:02 that's what has to be your aftertaste, 21:05 that's what has to stay in your memory, 21:09 the fact that I'm dying for you. 21:13 And of course we have to also remember 21:16 that in the Jewish tradition there is a cup 21:19 sitting on the table that old book. 21:23 Nobody drinks and the Elijah-- 21:25 It's a long story but to make it short, 21:28 of course Elijah didn't die. 21:30 So Jews believe that Elijah may actually come-- 21:34 Come back. And visit them. 21:36 And even drink the Passover Seder. 21:39 I remember as a kid being asked to get up at one point 21:43 in the Seder in the meal and go and open the door 21:48 and everyone waits for a moment 21:50 to see if Elijah is going to come. 21:52 But it is interesting that the coming of Elijah 21:55 is described in the last Book 21:58 of the Old Testament the Malachi. 22:00 And it says that, when Elijah comes 22:02 that's when the day of the Lord comes, awesome and fearful. 22:07 And so nobody dare to drink that cup of Elijah 22:11 because that's the old judgments, you know, 22:15 and look what happens in Gethsemane. 22:17 Jesus sweats with blood and He says, 22:22 "Lord, Father, may take this cup passover Me. 22:27 " Notice that, may this cup passover Me. 22:30 He uses the passover. Really? Yeah, the word-- 22:34 Basically save me like you saved them or-- 22:36 Yeah, but then He says not thy will. 22:39 Let your will be done. Not my will. 22:41 Now I'm going to drink the Cup of Judgment upon myself. 22:43 I don't want to drink that Cup of Judgment. 22:46 I want that passover me, but it's not happening. 22:50 But that wasn't what He was brought to do. 22:52 Now, let's, you know, there's still one cup left, right? 22:57 Because we've talked about three cups. 22:58 Yeah, we talked about Cup of Sanctification, 23:02 Cup of the Plagues, after that they eat the meal and Afikoman, 23:08 then Cup of Redemption. 23:10 Which is the one He's saying take the sins-- 23:11 That's the blood and then the fourth cup. 23:13 And then the fourth cup He doesn't drink, right. 23:17 But, everybody else did. 23:18 Everyone else but He says I will not drink again with you. 23:21 That's the Cup of Praise. 23:22 Right, until I return, right. Awesome. 23:26 Which, yeah, it's awesome. 23:27 So we're gonna drink that fourth cup with Jesus? 23:29 So that's the one that He's looking forward to 23:32 sharing with us when He comes 23:35 in the clouds and comes to return. 23:37 So, you know, as you listen to this on today's program. 23:42 I hope that this has inspired you and moved you. 23:48 Rachel and I have a song to share. 23:50 And we're going to get ready 23:51 and Sasha is going to tell us about the song. 23:55 Well, this is an interesting song from Psalm 22. 24:02 And it's actually a prophetic song 24:05 in which David portrays himself 24:09 is portrayed as a suffering Messiah, 24:11 who is suffering the agonies of death 24:15 and that's one of the words, 24:18 "In you our fathers trusted," and we're now let sing. 24:22 [Singing in foreign language] 27:32 Well, amen and amen. 27:34 Listen, I really hope 27:36 that you have enjoyed our program today that, 27:39 you see through that Passover celebration 27:42 how Jesus revealed Himself. 27:45 May the Lord bless you and may He keep you 27:46 and may the Lord make His face to shine up on you 27:48 and be gracious to you. 27:50 May the Lord lift His countenance upon you 27:52 and bring you His peace. 27:54 Thank you and join us again on "Back to Our Roots." |
Revised 2014-12-17