Participants: Alex Schlussler (Host), Rachel Hyman (Host), Sasha Bolotnikov
Series Code: BTOR
Program Code: BTOR000012
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00:01 From a Hebraic view how do we understand
00:04 evil, suffering, death, and the resurrection? 00:07 Stay tuned with us on Back To Our Roots and you'll find out. 00:31 Welcome once again to Back To Our Roots. 00:34 I'm Alex Schlussler, pastor of the Plantation SDA church 00:37 and I'm Rachel Hyman, minister of music. 00:40 And we want to thank you once again for joining us 00:42 on our program. 00:44 Today we are covering a little bit deeper topic 00:48 than we have in the past. Rachel, today we're going to be 00:50 talking about what is the Hebraic view of evil, 00:54 suffering, death... and then ultimately we're going to talk 00:58 about the resurrection. 01:00 Heavy topic. It is. 01:02 You know, even Jesus spoke to the people in the first century 01:08 said: "You know, one of the things... you're going to live 01:10 in the world you're going to have tribulation, 01:12 you're going to have problems. " 01:13 And we know that there is an evil one 01:18 that exists for the sole purpose of taking as many 01:22 of God's children as he can away from God. 01:25 You know, of course we're talking about Satan. Um-hmm. 01:28 Today we want to look at some different views. 01:32 And we want to start in particular at understanding 01:37 who does scripture... how does scripture explain 01:41 who Satan is. All right. And we're going to... 01:45 we're going to jump right into this today. 01:47 And I want to ask our good friend Alexander Bolotnikov - 01:51 we know him as Sasha. He is a regular on our program. 01:56 Sasha, why don't you come join us? 01:58 Good to see you again Alex, Rachel. 02:02 Good to see you Sasha. 02:04 Sasha has just completed his Ph. D. 02:10 his doctoral dissertation, and I know he's very happy 02:12 that's done. Yeah, seven years. 02:15 Sasha is also a pastor in the Ohio Conference. 02:18 Yes. Yep... AND Sasha is a new papa. 02:21 Yes. Yes. So we're very happy for you, Sasha. 02:26 Today, Sasha, we're talking about the Hebraic perspective 02:31 on evil, on suffering, and on death and then 02:35 ultimately we want to get to understanding the resurrection 02:39 and how understanding the resurrection from a proper 02:42 perspective helps to understand these things. 02:47 So Sasha, we started off by talking about Satan 02:52 and who is he. And I know that from a Christian perspective 02:57 who Satan is. Is there a parallel 03:02 perspective within Judaism? 03:04 Or even maybe with a Hebraic understanding 03:07 that you could say: "OK, here is how Satan is described. " 03:11 Or does that even exist? 03:13 Yes it does. There are two perspectives. 03:16 We have to probably talk about the Hebrew scriptures first - 03:21 OK - and then a little bit rabbinic understanding. 03:24 OK. Because in a way... they differ a little bit. 03:32 But Hebrew Bible is very consistent. 03:36 The only time the word Satan actually appears 03:41 it's in the very very first book of the Bible. 03:44 It's the book of Job. 03:46 And it's an ancient book 03:49 and Jewish tradition 03:54 and many Christian scholars agree 03:56 that the book of Job was written 04:00 or at least edited by Moses 04:04 and precedes Genesis. 04:06 And it's interesting from the theological perspective. 04:11 Basically it's like God starts the Bible 04:14 explaining what has happened. 04:17 Why are we in such a dire state? 04:20 And here we have right in the very first chapter 04:26 God literally confronting Satan. 04:32 And then we see what Satan can do. Exactly; exactly. 04:37 So we understand the story in the book of Job 04:44 and I have to tell you: I've preached on this many many times 04:47 because I think from our perspective 04:50 this makes it very clear. And maybe in some ways 04:53 we're getting ahead of ourselves a little bit, but I think 04:56 that it's very clear in the book of Job that Satan can't 04:59 do anything that God doesn't allow him to do. 05:02 Because in fact in the book of Job 05:04 Satan is found wandering here and there. 05:07 And then he comes into the court I guess where God is. 05:11 This is how it's described in the book of Job. Right? Yeah. 05:15 And he comes there and Satan is really 05:20 I don't know I see him almost like he's boasting 05:22 about the things that he's doing. 05:24 And God says: "Have you ever considered My servant Job 05:27 that he's so righteous? " And doesn't Satan then say: 05:30 "Look, I can pull him away... 05:33 I can pull him away from You. " 05:35 See, the big problem... the biggest issue... 05:38 the biggest question, dilemma in the book of Job 05:43 is whether the love of God and the love of man to God 05:48 is sincere. Um-hmm. And this is the dilemma. 05:53 You see, you cannot... The word love 05:57 can't put it in imperative. I can ask... 06:00 Describe what you mean when you say that. 06:02 I can say: "Rachel, please stand up. " 06:05 "Rachel, please sit down. " 06:07 I can't tell Rachel "Please love this individual. " 06:11 Can't do that! Right. 06:13 So love is our internal choice 06:17 and you can't just beat yourself into the chest: 06:21 "I love... " Right. And that's what Satan 06:26 by the way, the Hebrew word ha-Satan is the rebellious one. 06:31 OK. And later on we have two more occasions 06:36 where Satan is presented typologically, 06:42 mythephorically. In the book of Isaiah chapter 14... 06:45 And that's probably the best known. Right? Yeah, yeah. 06:48 The story that he's been cast out. 06:50 Yeah, that is... 06:54 His name in Hebrew is Helel Ben-Shachar: 07:00 the Morning Star, the Son of Dawn. 07:04 OK. That was his name. 07:06 He was... And Ezekiel in chapter 28 07:10 describes him that this creature 07:15 was an anointed cherub. 07:18 And cherub is not just any angel. 07:21 Cherubs are described only 07:25 in connection with the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. 07:29 Yes. And we have in Ezekiel the cherubs carrying 07:34 God's throne. So we do have cherub 07:38 by the name Son of Dawn - 07:41 OK - literally very, very close to God. 07:45 Now does it talk in the scripture about what... 07:47 what his position was? What he did? 07:49 He's there in heaven. He's created 07:53 as you say a cherub. But is there any description 07:56 about? He's there in heaven... what is he doing? 07:59 What does it say? Well, it is described that God 08:04 has really adorned him with all kinds of precious stones. 08:10 And it is interesting that the similar precious stones 08:14 are found on the garment of a high priest later on. 08:19 So it does indicate by this 08:24 and he is anointed the same way as a mashiach. Right. 08:29 As we've talked about anointed in the past. 08:31 Yeah, the same way. Anointed high priest. 08:33 So he is in... It doesn't say literally the highest position - 08:38 right - but the way how Ezekiel describes the adornment 08:42 and anointing and the way that he is covering cherub. 08:48 The covering cherubs are described in the book of Exodus. 08:54 The two cherubs standing... Sure, over the mercy seat 08:58 with wings bended. So that's what he was doing. 09:01 He was covering. He was one of them 09:04 until the iniquity was found in him. Right. 09:09 Now before we get into it 'cause I know scripture is going 09:13 to go into where he actually starts boasting himself: 09:15 "I will ascend above the Most High. " 09:18 Isaiah actually talks... Let me ask you before you get into that 09:23 one thing that I've heard and I don't know if this is just 09:27 people passing this around or what your opinion on this is 09:30 that I've heard Satan described as not just the anointed one 09:34 but the one who was in charge of music in heaven. 09:38 Is that a scriptural thing or is that just something that 09:41 kind of has been passed around? 09:43 This is more traditional. 09:44 Scripture doesn't say about him being in charge of music. 09:48 OK, OK... that's fine. 09:51 Let's move on and I want to talk a little bit about 09:53 how the actual fall. How he begins to boast himself - 09:58 you know - above God or his desire to elevate himself 10:02 above God. Isaiah describes this because 10:07 Ezekiel just says: "until iniquity was found in you. " 10:11 So what kind of iniquity? 10:14 Well Isaiah describes that he actually wanted 10:19 to sit on the highest throne of heaven 10:23 and be like the Most High. 10:27 Now you know, I find this... Whenever I've read that 10:31 I find that really interesting because I have always 10:34 I guess you know maybe through assumption or how I read 10:38 the scriptures, thinking about the created beings - the angels, 10:43 the cherubs - did God give them free will? 10:47 And that was something that I always debated with myself: 10:49 that they were compelled... That God didn't create them 10:53 to do that. That was something that was different 10:56 about humanity that He gave us this free will. 10:59 But then when you read about what happens with Satan 11:04 he is exhibiting free will because he is putting himself 11:09 up. He is exalting himself above God. 11:12 Oh yeah, he definitely has free will. 11:15 He definitely has somewhat his own ways 11:19 of seeing himself, you know, deprived from something. 11:25 Now do you think that he was unique? 11:29 That who God created him to be was different 11:32 than the other angels? 11:34 Have you ever thought about that? What do you think? 11:36 Apparently he was unique 11:38 because there were only two cherubs. 11:41 And you know, the only other names of particular... We have 11:46 Michael - Mikael - and we've already talked about this - 11:51 right - but this refers to Jesus Himself. Right. 11:55 And then there is Gabriel. You know, the Gabriel - right - 11:59 which is just meaning the man of might, 12:05 the man of strength. 12:06 And so these are basically three beings 12:12 that are described as angelic beings. But Gabriel 12:17 is never referred as a cherub. OK. 12:21 You know, the thing that we want to be real cautious with 12:25 this is 'cause you know there are some that teach that... 12:28 that Satan and that Jesus were more or less created equal 12:34 as brothers. And we want to make sure that... 12:38 And of course Jesus was not created! 12:39 And we want to make sure that people clearly understand this. 12:43 But, but... As we talked before 12:46 through Jesus God appears to be 12:52 as Hebrews puts it "Brother to His creation. " 12:58 So Jesus as Michael... this is the way how... 13:03 The same way as God came and incarnated Himself 13:08 into human flesh - right - and He was among us 13:12 the same way God was among angels. 13:16 So it's very important to understand 13:18 if you do hear this type of dialogue that first of all 13:23 that Jesus in no way... He wasn't a creation of God. 13:29 This is God... Jesus IS God. 13:32 Satan as a cherub is a created being - yeah - 13:36 and very, very different. And that's possibly why 13:41 the Hebrew scripture doesn't give us the answer. 13:44 But there is a verse in Philippians - um-hmm - 13:49 Philippians chapter 2 that talks about 13:53 Jesus being a glory of God 13:59 and He did not consider it to be a theft. Right. 14:05 So it seems to me in a way 14:08 that someone else might have some doubt 14:11 and accuse Him saying: "You appear like an angel. 14:15 Why am I not equal to You? " 14:18 Which then we understand that this becomes 14:20 really the controversy that has stirred - yes - 14:23 this accusation that exists that really isn't true. 14:28 Let's talk just, Sasha, real briefly. 14:32 This Jewish perspective of who Satan is 14:37 is really important for us to move forward and to really be 14:41 able to understand. Because of some things that have happened 14:45 historically why the Jews responded the way that they did. 14:48 So what, you know... We as Christians 14:52 we have this perspective and we clearly see 14:54 that Satan is the enemy of our soul. 14:57 That he is enemy against God. 14:59 The thing that he wants more than anything 15:01 is to take all of God's children. 15:03 Take them away from God; lead us away. 15:08 I mean Satan knows the Bible. He knows what happens in the end. 15:11 Yeah, that's really the only way that he can get back at God 15:14 is by stealing His children. Yeah, that's right. 15:15 That's right. To say: "I know I'm going to lose 15:18 and I'm going to take as many of God's precious ones 15:20 as I possibly can. " 15:22 Now this is a Christian per- spective of understanding that. 15:26 Is there any type of parallel within Judaism 15:31 that would run consistent with that? 15:35 Do they have that view? 15:36 The only... To me it's kind of interesting, 15:40 you know, but the only time - the only "once" - 15:44 the word Satan, the story about Satan 15:47 appears in the entire rabbinic corpus or rabbinic writing 15:51 and it's like a story. It's not in the Bible. 15:54 But the type of story is called agada. Yes. 16:01 And it describes... it comments on 16:06 Genesis 22: the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac. 16:11 And how Abraham... it took him 3 days to walk from Beersheba 16:16 where he was to the Mount Moriah. 16:19 And the rabbis ask: "Why is it taking him that long? " 16:24 And they try to answer by saying: 16:26 "Satan was preventing. " Interesting. 16:31 And so it's interesting. I can't go into this in detail. 16:35 But what I find really interesting is everything that 16:39 I've read and how I understand this 16:41 is that the Jewish perspective 16:45 is not so much that we have this created being - 16:48 this cherub, Satan, this one who is the enemy 16:51 of our souls against God - 16:53 as they describe it as the "evil inclination. " 16:57 Well, this is also rabbinic theology. 17:00 And that's why when we talk about rabbinic view 17:03 sometimes there are two positions that exist. 17:06 Sure. And this one is so rare to be found. 17:10 This is not very well known. 17:12 As far as Satan... a view of seeing Satan. Yes. 17:14 That's why I say it's a unique story. It's found in one place 17:20 and one midrash. But the majority of the rabbis 17:24 took a different opinion and they depersonalized Satan. 17:29 As you were saying about this "evil inclination" 17:33 yetzer hara: that exists. Exactly. 17:35 What do they say about temptation then? 17:37 Who is the tempter? Or how does somebody get tempted? 17:40 Well that runs in the line with this "evil inclination" - 17:44 exactly - that is constantly drawing us, is trying to draw us 17:47 away from God. Now putting this in context 17:51 now and understanding that from that perspective 17:54 there is no entity... there is no enemy of God 17:59 as we would understand it. There is this inclination. 18:02 Basically from this perspective also 18:04 is where you get the idea that people are essentially born good 18:07 and as their life goes on it's the "evil inclination" that 18:10 draws them into temptation, draws them away from God. 18:14 There is a whole ramification of thinking this way. 18:19 And when you have this view that you discount Satan - 18:23 that you don't see that there really is an enemy 18:26 in that perspective - then when things go terribly wrong 18:31 who can you look to? 18:35 You know, we would have things go wrong and we would say: 18:38 "Yes, ultimately God has control but you know 18:42 the other side is we live in a fallen world. 18:44 We live in a world that's filled with sin. " 18:46 And we don't... When we under- stand we don't turn our anger 18:49 towards God. Now when you don't have that 18:52 you have nowhere to go but to turn your anger towards God. 18:56 And what I'm leading to and we really haven't touched on this 19:00 at all in any of our shows but there was a horrific event 19:04 that happened to the Jewish people... and I'm talking about 19:07 the Holocaust during World War II. 19:08 Yeah, six million were... Six million lost their lives. 19:12 Now I do... We're all Jewish here 19:15 and I don't want to belittle this but I also want people 19:17 to understand that I've read that there were as many as 19:20 50 million people died as a result of World War II. 19:25 But this was something that was systematic. 19:29 This was to destroy a people. 19:32 This wasn't as a result of war. And I always bring that out 19:34 because I've heard people throw that back. 19:36 "Yeah, look at the total numbers. " 19:38 This was a unique thing that happened. 19:40 But you know, we say it's unique 19:41 but you know what? The reality is 19:44 is that this isn't the first time that I think the enemy 19:48 threw everything he had at the Jewish people. 19:52 We can go back at least two times or three times 19:55 I can think of in scripture. We have in Moses' day 19:59 we have Pharaoh looking to kill all the children 20:03 trying to find Moses. 20:04 We go forward and we have the whole story of Esther. 20:07 And the Medieval times... Well, we're jumping even way later. 20:11 But we have the story of Esther in the Bible where 20:13 Haman wants to kill the Jewish people and God 20:16 uses Esther - this little Jewish woman - 20:19 to save the people. And then we move into the New Testament 20:22 when Jesus was born we have Herod, the king, 20:25 sending out trying to find and kill all the babies 20:28 that were a certain age. 20:30 But all of these things... realize every time this happened 20:32 it was Satan's attempt to foil God's plan - 20:36 thinking that he could - to stop Moses coming. 20:39 Right? Then try to eliminate all of God's people. 20:42 And then to try and stop Messiah from coming 20:45 again... because Satan knew that a Redeemer would come. 20:48 He just didn't understand I don't think 20:51 at that time how exactly He would come. 20:54 Well... As you mentioned we go into the medieval period 20:57 and it gets really worse. 20:58 And we could spend a whole lot of time just talking about that 21:01 but where I wanted to get... my point in saying all of that 21:04 was that because of this view that it's this evil inclination 21:09 and that it's not Satan the way that the Jews 21:14 as a people handled the genocide - 21:16 the way that the Jews as a people handled what happened 21:19 in the Holocaust, unfortunately was many, many, many Jews 21:24 turned away from God. Yeah, they turned to atheism 21:28 and said: "Where was God when our parents, 21:34 our grandparents, suffered in gas chambers of Hitler? " 21:39 And this is really the answer to why one of the main reasons 21:45 why it is so difficult for Jews as a whole 21:49 to look past and to see. Sometimes it's not even so much 21:53 about Jesus. And sometimes it goes even further 21:56 because it's their ability to accept that God 22:00 when He appears to have allowed this to happen 22:04 in their mind: "Why would I turn to Him? Why would I trust Him? " 22:07 And that's why Job's example 22:10 when he didn't know about Satan. 22:13 The interesting thing about the book of Job: 22:15 Job doesn't know what happened in heaven 22:20 as is described in the first chapter. 22:22 But... and he doesn't understand 22:24 why are these sufferings coming. 22:27 What did I do to deserve this? Yeah. 22:29 And he kind of says: "Well God is doing it 22:34 because He's in control of everything. " 22:36 But even though he thinks this way 22:39 he still makes this claim at the very center of the book: 22:43 "I know my Redeemer liveth. " 22:46 I love it. "At the last day He will restore me 22:51 and I will see Him. " 22:53 That's the first text in the first book of the Bible 22:57 talking about the solution of all this problem of evil: 23:00 the resurrection from the dead. 23:02 So... and that segue is great 23:05 because our time is slipping away. 23:07 So fast it goes by. And we do want to take just a little bit 23:11 and talk about this Hebraic view of the resurrection 23:14 because some people think that this is unique 23:17 to being a Christian that we think of the resurrection 23:19 of the dead. But that's very common in Judaism. 23:23 Yes. Oh in the synagogue the major prayer is 23:25 "Blessed are You O Lord who resurrects the dead. " Exactly. 23:30 This is one of the major prayers. 23:32 This is the Blessed Hope of every praying believing Jew. 23:37 Absolutely. Beautiful. Alex, I guess you're going to 23:41 sing us one of your songs again? I do. 23:43 Actually this song is not one that I wrote. 23:46 This is a traditional song and it's taken from liturgy. 23:51 Sasha... MELEKH OZER. Can you tell them just a little - 23:53 yes - while I get ready? This is taken from the 18 Blessings. 23:58 And it's actually talking about God as a King 24:04 who is ready to help 24:08 and who is our shield. 24:10 Blessed are You O Lord, Shield of Abraham. 24:14 Beautiful. Amen; amen. 24:48 O King, Redeemer, Savior, and Shield. 24:52 O King, Redeemer, Savior, and Shield. 24:57 Blessed art Thou, blessed art Thou, 25:02 Shield of Abraham. 25:06 Blessed art Thou, blessed art Thou, 25:11 Shield of Abraham. 25:15 O You are the Mighty One forever, O Lord. 25:19 Yes, You are the Mighty One forever O Lord. 25:24 You raise the dead that are sleeping in their graves. 25:29 You are mighty to save. 25:33 Yes, You raise the dead 25:35 that are sleeping in their graves. 25:38 You are mighty to save. 26:17 You raise the dead that are sleeping in their graves. 26:22 You are mighty to save. 26:26 You raise the dead that are sleeping in their graves. 26:31 You are mighty to save. 26:34 Oh yes, and You are mighty to save. 26:39 O Lord, You are mighty to save. 26:45 Beautiful! That's right. 26:46 No other name underneath heaven. 26:48 That's it! Amen; amen. 26:50 Lord, we are so happy and blessed that You care so much 26:56 for us. That You look down and You raise us up 27:00 when nothing else... Well, we want to thank you once again 27:04 for joining us on Back To Our Roots. 27:07 Today maybe has been a little challenging for some. 27:11 But you know, God is the God of all things. 27:14 His desire is that none should be left behind. 27:18 And He's stronger than Satan. Amen! 27:20 I always take heart - as we said - in the book of Job 27:23 that Satan had to go to God to ask permission. Amen? 27:27 So you know, we should never give him more power 27:31 than he is due. God is in control always. 27:35 So on behalf of myself, Rachel, and Sasha 27:41 we want to say thank you for joining us. 27:43 May the Lord bless you and may He keep you. 27:45 May the Lord make His face to shine upon you 27:47 and be gracious to you. 27:49 May the Lord lift His countenance upon you 27:51 and bring you His peace. 27:53 Shalom and thank you for joining us. |
Revised 2014-12-17