When a Jew comes to Christ is he still Jewish? 00:00:01.40\00:00:04.98 What do the scriptures have to say about this? 00:00:05.19\00:00:07.32 Stay tuned with us on Back To Our Roots 00:00:07.83\00:00:09.65 and learn some interesting things. 00:00:09.75\00:00:11.30 Welcome to Back To Our Roots. 00:00:32.84\00:00:35.83 I'm Pastor Alex Schlussler 00:00:36.03\00:00:37.65 and I'm Rachel Hyman, minister of music, 00:00:37.75\00:00:39.83 and we are so happy that you've joined us today. 00:00:40.03\00:00:43.04 Our program today is going to be really, really interesting. 00:00:43.24\00:00:47.74 Rachel, today we're talking about conversion 00:00:47.94\00:00:50.34 and the born again experience. 00:00:50.54\00:00:52.22 And what exactly... what does that mean 00:00:52.42\00:00:55.06 when we speak about being converted? 00:00:55.26\00:00:57.43 And what did Jesus mean when He was talking about 00:00:57.63\00:01:01.88 that you must be born again? 00:01:01.98\00:01:03.58 You know, Rachel, both of us have similar experiences, 00:01:03.78\00:01:08.21 similar testimonies being raised Jewish 00:01:08.31\00:01:11.17 and at some point in our lives God revealing Himself 00:01:11.37\00:01:15.59 through whatever circumstances it may have been. 00:01:15.79\00:01:18.51 And you know, within Judaism this idea of conversion 00:01:18.71\00:01:23.52 is such a delicate thing. 00:01:23.72\00:01:26.11 When we speak in the context of being converted 00:01:27.15\00:01:30.14 from one thing to another 00:01:30.34\00:01:33.00 it really sends almost shockwaves. 00:01:33.20\00:01:36.38 Almost like you're joining the enemy's ranks. 00:01:36.59\00:01:38.14 Exactly. And I remember just even this thought 00:01:38.34\00:01:42.06 that how could I ever do that? 00:01:42.26\00:01:44.59 You know, it's very interesting 00:01:44.69\00:01:46.95 that one of my first experiences 00:01:47.05\00:01:50.12 after I had become a believer 00:01:50.32\00:01:53.75 the natural tendency - and I know you expressed this 00:01:53.96\00:01:56.78 to me in the past - is that we... 00:01:56.88\00:01:58.78 as a Jewish person that comes to Jesus 00:01:58.98\00:02:02.13 it's very hard initially to reconcile 00:02:02.33\00:02:05.46 "OK, I'm now a follower of the Christ... that's Christian. " 00:02:05.67\00:02:09.09 Right? That's what it literally means. 00:02:09.30\00:02:10.80 "And how can I be a Christian and be a Jew? " 00:02:11.00\00:02:13.96 Um-hmm. So I know that I went through this process of 00:02:14.16\00:02:17.40 really kind of pushing that aside. 00:02:17.60\00:02:20.16 How did that affect you? 00:02:20.36\00:02:21.73 Well yeah, it makes sense because Christendom portrays 00:02:21.93\00:02:25.13 Christianity as something that's totally separate from Judaism. 00:02:25.33\00:02:29.06 And so we just grow up with that mentality. And so 00:02:29.26\00:02:31.44 when we see that Jesus does fulfill the Messianic prophecies 00:02:31.64\00:02:34.86 and we accept Him as our personal Savior as a Jewish 00:02:34.96\00:02:37.58 person it just makes us feel like we're joining a totally 00:02:37.68\00:02:41.47 different religion because that's what's been represented 00:02:41.57\00:02:45.03 to us. But then as we study the scriptures deeper 00:02:45.13\00:02:47.91 we can clearly see that "Wow, this isn't a totally 00:02:48.11\00:02:50.96 separate religion. " Right. 00:02:51.16\00:02:52.63 And you know, for me it's interesting because 00:02:52.83\00:02:56.08 I don't know so much that I thought about the religious 00:02:56.28\00:02:59.46 part of it because, you know, we've talked about this 00:02:59.67\00:03:03.16 in previous programs that there is this interesting component 00:03:03.26\00:03:07.74 that exists within Judaism 00:03:07.94\00:03:09.61 and that is that yes, Judaism is a religion 00:03:09.81\00:03:12.49 but it also - being Jewish - is an ethnicity. 00:03:12.69\00:03:16.17 That's right. You know, unlike Christianity 00:03:16.37\00:03:20.67 where you're a Christian and you can be an Italian 00:03:20.87\00:03:24.25 and you can be Jamaican and, you know, whatever it is - 00:03:24.45\00:03:27.31 right - and you would never see yourself as 00:03:27.51\00:03:30.87 well once I accepted Jesus now I am no longer Italian 00:03:31.07\00:03:34.53 or German or whatever it is. Right. 00:03:34.63\00:03:36.37 But when a Jew comes to Jesus there is this paradox, 00:03:36.47\00:03:41.22 this thing that we face: that how can we be Jewish 00:03:41.32\00:03:44.46 and be Christian? Yet who we are at a core level - 00:03:44.66\00:03:49.18 our ethnicity, our culture - is being Jewish. 00:03:49.38\00:03:52.99 Which even though you know my heritage is Italian 00:03:53.19\00:03:56.17 and German I still would probably defer to the fact 00:03:56.27\00:04:00.91 that I'm Jewish first - hmmm - 00:04:01.01\00:04:02.80 and then those other things come. Right. 00:04:03.00\00:04:05.51 I remember very early going into a church 00:04:05.91\00:04:09.61 and a really blessed sister welcoming me. 00:04:09.81\00:04:13.87 And she said: "Oh, you used to be Jewish! " 00:04:14.07\00:04:17.60 Like saying: "Oh I heard you used to be Jamaican. " Right. 00:04:19.40\00:04:22.57 "But now you're a Christian. " Right. 00:04:22.87\00:04:24.82 So when we talk about conversion - 00:04:24.92\00:04:27.07 we're going to get into this in just a couple minutes - 00:04:27.27\00:04:29.36 what really is conversion? Because obviously we're not 00:04:29.46\00:04:33.93 talking about an external thing. 00:04:34.03\00:04:36.28 We're not talking about an ethnic thing. That's right. 00:04:36.48\00:04:39.06 We're not really talking about cultural - no - which 00:04:39.26\00:04:41.91 you know within the Seventh- day Adventist church 00:04:42.11\00:04:43.57 Seventh-day Adventism has its own culture. 00:04:43.77\00:04:46.38 Right. Very much so. 00:04:46.58\00:04:48.13 So when somebody becomes a Seventh-day Adventist 00:04:48.33\00:04:50.85 does that mean that who they were culturally 00:04:51.05\00:04:54.11 gets left behind? 00:04:55.71\00:04:57.64 Maybe sometimes depending on if it goes against the Bible 00:04:57.85\00:05:00.26 I guess. Exactly. Of course. If anything within your culture - 00:05:00.36\00:05:04.66 and I think that holds true across the board - 00:05:04.86\00:05:06.80 is contrary to the Biblical teaching 00:05:06.90\00:05:10.44 then you know obviously those are things that God will 00:05:10.64\00:05:12.66 work with us and leave behind. Right. 00:05:12.77\00:05:14.42 But you know of course... Judaism... 00:05:14.62\00:05:16.20 well and any other thing: being Italian, being Jamaican, 00:05:16.40\00:05:19.24 being German, being French. You know there's components 00:05:19.44\00:05:21.58 of who a person is - right - 00:05:21.68\00:05:23.77 that I think always stays with them. 00:05:23.97\00:05:26.38 And they're never expected to leave that behind. Right. 00:05:26.48\00:05:28.57 And they shouldn't be demanded to either. Exactly. 00:05:28.67\00:05:31.81 We have our resident theologian with us as always: 00:05:33.37\00:05:37.46 our brother Alexander Bolotnikov. 00:05:37.66\00:05:39.26 Great friend of ours. We call him Sasha. 00:05:39.46\00:05:41.59 Sasha, why don't you come on out and join us? 00:05:41.89\00:05:43.78 And we're going to get into the meat of this. 00:05:43.99\00:05:46.65 How are you today, Sasha? Well, I am good. 00:05:46.95\00:05:49.65 I'm glad to be with you again. 00:05:49.85\00:05:51.57 I'm glad to see you're looking good in lavender I guess 00:05:51.68\00:05:54.55 that is? Light purple. 00:05:54.65\00:05:57.09 Our brother Sasha... he is... I kid and I say he's our 00:05:57.40\00:06:02.43 resident theologian but all kidding aside 00:06:02.53\00:06:04.70 Sasha, it's such a privilege and a honor that you're able 00:06:04.90\00:06:07.73 to be with us. Sasha is completing his Ph. D. 00:06:07.83\00:06:10.94 but let me tell you: it's as if he has several of them 00:06:11.04\00:06:14.12 because I've known very few people that have a command 00:06:14.32\00:06:17.79 of both the Old and New Testament 00:06:17.99\00:06:20.42 and the rabbinic writings the way that you do 00:06:20.62\00:06:23.84 that brings such a beautiful perspective to our discussion. 00:06:23.94\00:06:26.65 So thank you so much, Sasha. 00:06:26.86\00:06:28.40 Sasha, today we're talking about this idea of 00:06:28.70\00:06:31.23 conversion and the born again experience. 00:06:31.26\00:06:33.96 And I'd like you to talk just a little bit. 00:06:34.16\00:06:37.52 We know that God instructs His people through the Torah. 00:06:37.72\00:06:41.38 Again the Torah - when we speak of that - that is the first five 00:06:41.58\00:06:44.68 books of the Old Testament but it also can include 00:06:44.79\00:06:47.61 all of the Old Testament depending on the context. 00:06:47.81\00:06:49.89 And he speaks in context of conversion of the nations. 00:06:50.09\00:06:55.30 Sometimes the term goyim is used, and I know that that 00:06:55.51\00:06:58.96 has had some negative connotation. 00:06:59.06\00:07:01.59 But truly the Hebrew word goyim literally means the nation. 00:07:01.79\00:07:05.41 And there's the Jews in the Bible and then there is 00:07:05.51\00:07:08.71 the nations so of course this isn't derogatory. 00:07:08.81\00:07:11.33 So talk to us a little bit about how God through the Torah 00:07:11.53\00:07:14.76 does speak about the conversion of the nations. 00:07:14.96\00:07:17.82 The Torah is very clear 00:07:18.02\00:07:20.09 that the major role - the major idea - why God has chosen 00:07:20.29\00:07:25.32 the nation of Israel is to preach the truth about Him. 00:07:25.52\00:07:31.45 About Him as the Creator of heaven and earth. 00:07:31.65\00:07:34.45 I'm sorry to interrupt you. I just want to back up 00:07:34.65\00:07:37.12 just a little bit and let's clarify. When we say the nation 00:07:37.23\00:07:40.04 of Israel we're not talking about the physical country. 00:07:40.14\00:07:43.49 Right. We're talking from an Old Testament perspective: 00:07:43.69\00:07:46.14 God's chosen people. 00:07:46.35\00:07:47.87 And you know we can use that term. 00:07:48.07\00:07:50.02 Yes. Just so people don't get confused. 00:07:50.22\00:07:51.82 The old, theoretical Biblical Israel. Yes; OK. 00:07:51.92\00:07:55.95 Twelve tribes of us. Yes, go on. Sorry, Sasha. 00:07:56.15\00:07:58.67 So this theoretical state was selected by God 00:07:58.77\00:08:02.88 for the sole purpose of actually bringing the entire world 00:08:03.08\00:08:07.52 into the knowledge of the Creator of heaven and earth 00:08:07.72\00:08:12.41 and His plan of salvation. 00:08:12.61\00:08:14.13 For this reason God commanded to build such a sanctuary 00:08:14.33\00:08:19.00 so that everyone could see in symbols 00:08:19.14\00:08:23.42 His plan of salvation. 00:08:23.63\00:08:25.75 And the only way for a non-Israelite - 00:08:25.95\00:08:30.88 a pagan, because all other nations are pagan 00:08:31.18\00:08:35.19 by definition - the only way to change his/her way 00:08:35.29\00:08:40.18 was to join the ranks of Israel. 00:08:40.38\00:08:44.24 So Israel wasn't just genetic descendants of Abraham. 00:08:44.45\00:08:49.75 We read in the book of Exodus chapters 12 and 13 00:08:49.95\00:08:54.20 that after the last plague - 00:08:54.40\00:08:57.75 the killing of the firstborn - 00:08:57.95\00:09:02.14 there were many, many non-Israelites, Egyptians, 00:09:02.34\00:09:06.12 who heeded the command of God 00:09:06.32\00:09:09.06 and took the lambs to their houses and slaughtered them. 00:09:09.26\00:09:13.91 Well you would think that after God and Moses 00:09:14.11\00:09:17.79 have proved to be right and true with nine plagues, 00:09:17.99\00:09:20.97 right? - yeah - that by the time you get to the last one 00:09:21.17\00:09:23.71 which is that the firstborn's going to die, I bet there was 00:09:23.81\00:09:27.18 a lot of Egyptians and whoever was there saying: 00:09:27.28\00:09:29.99 "You know what? Moses has been right 9 times. 00:09:30.09\00:09:33.13 I'm not going to take a chance on this happening. " 00:09:33.23\00:09:35.08 Yeah, you'd think so. Exactly. Listen, that's the idea. 00:09:35.18\00:09:37.77 God never had a goal in the Old Testament to have some kind 00:09:38.12\00:09:42.79 of a higher class nation and a lower class nation. 00:09:42.89\00:09:46.45 Everybody could actually... But it was a certain way. 00:09:46.65\00:09:50.09 Everybody come in to the ranks, you know. 00:09:50.29\00:09:53.85 Yeah, they had to circumcise their males. 00:09:53.99\00:09:56.68 That's why 14 days were given. 00:09:56.78\00:09:59.01 You know, warning was advanced enough to be able to do it. 00:09:59.21\00:10:03.19 And as a result we know the Bible says... 00:10:03.33\00:10:06.57 Exodus 13... Exodus 12 00:10:06.77\00:10:09.63 great multitudes of other people left Egypt 00:10:09.66\00:10:15.08 with the people of Israel. Right. 00:10:15.11\00:10:16.68 And they integrated into these twelve tribes somehow. Right. 00:10:16.88\00:10:22.74 And that's the great example from the Torah. 00:10:22.88\00:10:27.63 Right. Well and we also know that the way God situated 00:10:27.83\00:10:32.30 the tabernacle and all the tribes around it 00:10:32.50\00:10:35.40 it must have been an incredible sight. 00:10:35.50\00:10:37.90 I've heard estimates of excess of over two million 00:10:38.10\00:10:40.77 people - something like that - right - that had gathered. 00:10:40.87\00:10:45.85 Can you imagine? The tents and the tabernacle in the middle. 00:10:46.05\00:10:49.70 This would have been such an amazing sight for anyone. 00:10:49.86\00:10:53.22 And God really had situated them kind of in the crossroads 00:10:53.36\00:10:57.13 of the known world, right? Where all the trading was going on. 00:10:57.33\00:11:00.01 So people would pass by and they would see this 00:11:00.22\00:11:02.63 which would given them an opportunity to say: 00:11:02.84\00:11:05.04 "Wow, what's going on here? We want to press in 00:11:05.24\00:11:07.44 and find out. " And that's exactly the location where 00:11:07.54\00:11:10.82 God wanted to be the homeland, the country for His people. 00:11:11.02\00:11:15.83 Not somewhere... He could have destroyed Egypt 00:11:16.03\00:11:18.73 afterward and said: "Now it is your land. 00:11:18.93\00:11:22.23 It's so comfortable. Here is this river Nile flows through. 00:11:22.26\00:11:26.48 You have ideal conditions for agriculture. " 00:11:26.58\00:11:29.31 You know even when Abraham and his father Terah left Ur 00:11:29.51\00:11:33.91 of the Chaldees it was in Mesopotamia two rivers: 00:11:34.01\00:11:37.80 Tigris and Euphrates. Comfortable conditions. 00:11:38.00\00:11:41.60 No, God told them to go to this place. 00:11:41.80\00:11:44.64 This is not a really hospitable place. Right. 00:11:44.84\00:11:48.24 Just teeny little river Jordan compared to the Nile. 00:11:48.34\00:11:52.18 You know, rains are falling on a pattern. 00:11:52.39\00:11:56.46 May not fall and you have hunger. 00:11:56.66\00:11:58.75 No, God said: "Go and you stay there 00:11:58.95\00:12:01.79 because this is where everybody crosses this area 00:12:01.99\00:12:05.53 on the trade route and that's how My glory will be known. " 00:12:05.74\00:12:10.75 As we're looking at this progression and we're following 00:12:10.95\00:12:14.47 how God is desiring to bring people and to bring the nations 00:12:14.67\00:12:18.74 in to know Him, to become His people, 00:12:18.94\00:12:22.05 you know I think about from the Biblical perspective 00:12:22.35\00:12:27.16 one of the most beautiful stories about someone who was 00:12:27.36\00:12:31.45 not one of God's people but desired is the story of Ruth. 00:12:31.65\00:12:35.58 The Moabite woman who through circumstances finds herself 00:12:35.78\00:12:40.62 in a situation where she literally cries out: 00:12:40.82\00:12:43.79 "I want your people to be my people. " 00:12:43.89\00:12:45.78 So talk to us about... 'cause I know that along with that 00:12:45.98\00:12:49.10 there's some other parallel stories to that. 00:12:49.20\00:12:51.29 What about? Ruth is a very, very beautiful story... 00:12:51.49\00:12:56.00 a paradoxical story 00:12:56.20\00:12:57.94 of this Moabite woman who married into the Jewish family, 00:12:58.14\00:13:04.11 a family of those who actually left Israel 00:13:04.31\00:13:08.52 to look for something better. They left Bethlehem; 00:13:08.62\00:13:12.13 went to Moab, the foreign land. 00:13:12.34\00:13:14.92 And this woman, and she and another, there were two brothers 00:13:15.12\00:13:19.56 these two women married in. 00:13:19.76\00:13:21.13 And God didn't bless this family out there, you know. 00:13:21.32\00:13:25.40 The father, Elimelech, died. 00:13:25.50\00:13:27.60 The two brothers died. 00:13:27.80\00:13:30.08 So this lady Naomi - a widow - with absolutely nothing. 00:13:30.28\00:13:36.05 No rights, no land, nothing. 00:13:36.25\00:13:38.60 She just returns back to her homeland. 00:13:38.80\00:13:41.64 She wants to just come back, just stay there. 00:13:41.74\00:13:44.20 Beg. You know, be just a pauper. 00:13:44.40\00:13:46.81 And so she says to her widowed daughters-in-law 00:13:47.01\00:13:52.30 "Oh my daughters, I have nothing for you. 00:13:52.50\00:13:54.30 Just go back to your parents. " 00:13:54.50\00:13:56.72 And one decides to go and the other said: "No. 00:13:56.92\00:14:00.42 I want to follow because I see something in your God. 00:14:00.62\00:14:04.11 Your God is my God 00:14:04.31\00:14:06.50 and your people are my people. " 00:14:06.80\00:14:09.73 And actually when she enters with Naomi 00:14:09.93\00:14:14.29 there was this man Boaz who actually got romantically 00:14:14.59\00:14:20.48 attracted... she became romantically attractive to him. 00:14:20.58\00:14:24.68 Just as I have explained: "Just because, wow, you didn't 00:14:24.88\00:14:28.19 see any... you didn't see some riches. 00:14:28.29\00:14:31.35 You made this heroic act 00:14:31.49\00:14:35.65 of actually becoming a member of the community of Israel 00:14:35.85\00:14:40.11 not out of richness but out of utter poverty. 00:14:40.31\00:14:44.69 But somehow God spoke to you and called you in. " 00:14:44.90\00:14:48.31 And you know the story ends with them being married. 00:14:48.51\00:14:52.66 And Ruth the Moabite is the grandmother of king David. 00:14:52.86\00:14:57.66 Right. She's entered into the Messianic line 00:14:57.86\00:15:00.42 even as someone from the nations. It's just so beautiful. 00:15:00.63\00:15:05.61 And it's not only Ruth but 00:15:05.82\00:15:09.18 we have the story before: Rahab - right - 00:15:09.38\00:15:12.72 the harlot, the temple prostitute. 00:15:12.92\00:15:15.79 You know, if she was in Israel she would have been stoned 00:15:15.99\00:15:20.77 to death for doing it. But since she was pagan 00:15:20.97\00:15:23.52 she didn't know better. But when she realized 00:15:23.73\00:15:27.27 the might of God of heaven and earth 00:15:27.37\00:15:30.12 during the time when He destroyed the Egyptians 00:15:30.32\00:15:33.65 at the Red Sea, oh she changed her heart and she went 00:15:33.76\00:15:38.16 and she followed the Lord. 00:15:38.26\00:15:39.93 And it says: "Rahab and all her family" - big family - 00:15:40.13\00:15:44.31 "lives among Israel until this time. " Beautiful. 00:15:44.51\00:15:47.75 And once again we have this beautiful story 00:15:47.95\00:15:50.86 of God's desire to take the people that weren't His people 00:15:51.06\00:15:54.69 in the beginning and to bring them in... to draw them in. 00:15:54.89\00:15:58.63 We're going to jump way forward now in history 00:15:58.83\00:16:02.85 and I want to talk about a story that maybe 00:16:03.05\00:16:06.37 some people would not connect with this. 00:16:06.57\00:16:08.87 But I think you're going to find this very interesting. 00:16:08.97\00:16:10.76 What I'm talking about is found in the gospel of Matthew. 00:16:10.86\00:16:13.55 primarily. It's also in John but Matthew chapter 21. 00:16:13.75\00:16:17.14 And this is the story of Jesus coming into what is known as 00:16:17.34\00:16:21.52 the court of the Gentiles. This was the large area 00:16:21.63\00:16:25.11 in front of the area that was restricted to only Jews. 00:16:25.31\00:16:28.91 That's why it's called the court of the Gentiles. 00:16:29.12\00:16:30.82 This is the place where God allowed the nations to come 00:16:31.02\00:16:35.10 and worship Him... to come towards Him. 00:16:35.30\00:16:38.00 And this of course is the story of Jesus coming in 00:16:38.20\00:16:41.23 and being very upset - putting it mildly. 00:16:41.43\00:16:45.39 Gospel of John says that He fashioned cords into a whip 00:16:45.59\00:16:48.82 and He drives these so-called money changers. 00:16:49.02\00:16:51.88 These are the people that are exchanging the currencies 00:16:51.98\00:16:55.15 from the nations out 'cause these are typically 00:16:55.25\00:16:57.85 the people, primarily the Jews that are coming in, 00:16:57.95\00:17:00.40 and they're exchanging their money for temple money 00:17:00.60\00:17:02.64 so that they can buy the sacrifices 00:17:02.84\00:17:05.11 so they can do the things they need to do. 00:17:05.31\00:17:07.54 And the exchange rate is always speculative. 00:17:07.74\00:17:11.90 Probably to the benefit of the exchangers, right? 00:17:12.10\00:17:15.33 Yeah, and the animals are extremely overpriced. 00:17:15.53\00:17:18.82 Well, and the people had to do what they had to do. 00:17:19.02\00:17:21.28 But Jesus comes in, and we know the story of Him 00:17:21.48\00:17:24.28 overturning the tables, whipping them out. 00:17:24.48\00:17:26.76 And He's saying: "My house shall be called a house of prayer 00:17:26.96\00:17:30.72 but you have made it a den of robbers. " 00:17:30.82\00:17:32.88 But in the other translation it says: "My house... 00:17:33.08\00:17:35.93 My Father's house should be a house for all nations. " 00:17:36.13\00:17:38.62 And this is the real clue that we need to pick up. 00:17:38.83\00:17:41.64 Because what Jesus is angry about is not... 00:17:41.84\00:17:45.23 Some people might think: "Oh, they were buying and 00:17:45.36\00:17:47.42 selling on the Sabbath. " Or... Let me tell you, 00:17:47.52\00:17:50.54 the reason why our Messiah was angry 00:17:50.74\00:17:54.39 was because these people had taken over the area 00:17:54.59\00:17:58.63 that God had set aside for the nations to come 00:17:58.83\00:18:01.80 and to press in to Him and they were excluding them. 00:18:02.00\00:18:05.38 This is why it was called the court of the Gentiles. 00:18:05.58\00:18:07.54 It's interesting. If we look in the book of Isaiah 56- 00:18:07.74\00:18:11.31 um-hmm - where Jesus takes this "My house will be the house of 00:18:11.41\00:18:15.67 prayer... " Which is what He's drawing it from. 00:18:15.77\00:18:17.37 Yeah, we have to read the whole statement. 00:18:17.47\00:18:19.81 The whole statement starts with the fact that 00:18:20.01\00:18:22.13 Isaiah talks about the Gentiles who keep the Sabbath, 00:18:22.33\00:18:27.38 who follows the laws of the Torah. 00:18:27.58\00:18:30.18 And he will be brought to the temple because God wants 00:18:30.38\00:18:34.10 every nation. And talking about the conversion, this is... 00:18:34.20\00:18:38.16 Isaiah is a great gospel I would say... gospel. 00:18:38.36\00:18:41.88 It's not talking about the Messiah but the conversion 00:18:41.98\00:18:44.24 of all the nations. And the conversion is always upward 00:18:44.35\00:18:47.60 to Israel - exactly - to the people, to Israel... 00:18:47.80\00:18:52.38 not out of Israel. Right. Hmm. 00:18:52.58\00:18:54.97 I want to move ahead because I had mentioned 00:18:55.07\00:18:57.36 the gospel of John. As we get past that 00:18:57.56\00:19:00.79 it's interesting what happens now. 00:19:00.99\00:19:02.47 After Jesus has done this the Pharisees, they come 00:19:02.57\00:19:06.02 and they question Him. And they ask Him directly 00:19:06.12\00:19:08.77 "In what authority have You done this? " 00:19:08.97\00:19:10.82 You know, and we're introduced to a man by the name of 00:19:11.02\00:19:14.75 Nicodemus in this story. And Nicodemus begins to speak out. 00:19:14.85\00:19:19.02 Sasha, take it away from there. 00:19:19.22\00:19:21.23 What happens at this point? Well it's interesting. 00:19:21.43\00:19:24.24 The Pharisees are not happy with what Jesus has done 00:19:24.27\00:19:28.33 because He is not of their "click. " 00:19:28.53\00:19:31.33 And so: "Who gave You authority? " 00:19:31.53\00:19:33.91 "Why are You doing this? " 00:19:34.11\00:19:35.48 Nicodemus is the one that usually in Christianity 00:19:35.55\00:19:39.24 Nicodemus is negatively portrayed. 00:19:39.28\00:19:41.45 No, he is not negative. He is the one who acknowledges 00:19:41.65\00:19:45.24 "Your authority comes from God. " 00:19:45.45\00:19:48.80 He calls him Rabbi. Right. Now this is what 00:19:49.00\00:19:52.10 launches this dialogue now that Jesus is going to have 00:19:52.30\00:19:55.74 with Nicodemus that Jesus Himself brings up this idea 00:19:55.84\00:19:58.93 of the born again experience, right? Exactly. 00:19:59.03\00:20:01.01 And Jesus explains to him. Jesus is not trying to rebuke 00:20:01.22\00:20:04.52 Nicodemus and say: "You are so bad. " 00:20:04.62\00:20:06.49 But Jesus explains to him what did He want to illustrate 00:20:06.69\00:20:10.94 in His cleansing of the temple. 00:20:11.14\00:20:14.35 He shows: "Look, even you have to born again. " 00:20:14.55\00:20:18.59 Be born again. "I have cleared the temple 00:20:18.79\00:20:22.99 for the Gentiles who want to have this conversion experience 00:20:23.19\00:20:28.38 so that they would enter into the Passover. 00:20:28.58\00:20:31.63 All this cleansing. Two times it is described in the gospels 00:20:31.73\00:20:34.31 always before the Passover. Right. 00:20:34.51\00:20:36.45 'Cause the Passover was the time - as we talked before - 00:20:36.55\00:20:40.02 that the Gentile enters into the house of Israel. 00:20:40.22\00:20:43.52 He participates from the eating of the Passover lamb 00:20:43.72\00:20:49.24 and now he is the same. That was that final step 00:20:49.44\00:20:52.86 of someone entering in. Yeah, he is no longer Gentile; 00:20:52.96\00:20:55.92 he is a Jew now. "Well, what about you, Nicodemus? 00:20:56.02\00:21:00.20 You were born to it. You don't have to go through this 00:21:00.50\00:21:04.76 stuff. You were born; you were circumcised on the 8th day. 00:21:04.96\00:21:08.35 What about you? Do you think you don't need conversion 00:21:08.56\00:21:13.62 experience? " That's what the message to Nicodemus. Right. 00:21:13.72\00:21:17.03 And He uses the term "to be born again. " 00:21:17.13\00:21:18.81 And of course, Nicodemus is: "What are You talking about? 00:21:19.01\00:21:22.42 I'm an old guy. What are you saying? I'm supposed to enter 00:21:22.62\00:21:25.73 back into my mother's womb? " Exactly, because the discussion 00:21:25.83\00:21:29.40 is Nicodemus feels all right. It is them who needs to have 00:21:29.50\00:21:33.49 this experience. I was born. " "No, you need to 00:21:33.59\00:21:37.40 be born again. It doesn't matter whether you're born 00:21:37.60\00:21:41.83 and who you were born by. " 00:21:42.03\00:21:43.55 And you know, isn't that the bottom-line truth? 00:21:43.75\00:21:48.05 It's true! Because, you know, a lot of Jews are told that 00:21:48.25\00:21:51.08 since they're the "chosen ones" you know that they're 00:21:51.29\00:21:54.33 immediately saved because they're a "son of Abraham. " 00:21:54.53\00:21:58.03 But in reality, that's not what saves them. 00:21:58.23\00:22:01.61 Whether you're a Jew, whether you're Muslim... whether you're 00:22:01.92\00:22:04.83 whatever... Buddhist... you have to have that experience. 00:22:04.93\00:22:09.03 Yeah, the scripture is very clear: 00:22:09.13\00:22:10.50 there aren't multiple ways, there's only one way 00:22:10.66\00:22:13.71 to the Father and that is through our Messiah Yeshuah. 00:22:13.91\00:22:18.08 Through Jesus. And conversion is not some kind of a political 00:22:18.28\00:22:21.71 action. Exactly. Conversion is our building our relationship 00:22:21.81\00:22:26.68 with our Creator: God of heaven and earth. 00:22:26.88\00:22:29.50 Right. With our Redeemer, Jesus. And this really points to 00:22:29.70\00:22:32.98 a really important thing that I think ultimately what Jesus 00:22:33.19\00:22:37.01 is saying even to Nicodemus 00:22:37.21\00:22:39.32 and the scriptures are saying to us 00:22:39.52\00:22:41.64 is that we have to establish - each individual - this 00:22:41.85\00:22:45.75 relationship, this personal relationship with God 00:22:45.95\00:22:49.34 the Father. This was what Jesus was talking about 00:22:49.44\00:22:51.38 with Nicodemus: this born again personal experience. 00:22:51.49\00:22:54.39 The truth is is that you can't inherit it. 00:22:54.42\00:22:57.60 The truth is that there will be no grandchildren in the 00:22:57.81\00:23:01.25 kingdom of God. It's all first generation... 00:23:01.36\00:23:04.84 no matter how old you are! 00:23:05.14\00:23:06.64 A lot of Christians come to me and they say "Oh, you're Jewish? 00:23:06.84\00:23:10.49 You're so blessed. You're the chosen one. 00:23:10.70\00:23:12.52 I mean you're so much more special than I am. " 00:23:12.72\00:23:15.52 I'm like: "Not really. " 00:23:15.72\00:23:17.57 No, not at all. I mean we are all 00:23:17.77\00:23:22.06 sinners - that's right - saved by Messiah. 00:23:22.36\00:23:25.31 So I hate to cut this off but time has gotten away from us 00:23:25.51\00:23:30.77 once again. Great topic. 00:23:30.97\00:23:32.69 So today is my opportunity to bring a song. 00:23:32.89\00:23:37.24 Yeah, I think you have the traditional Jewish song 00:23:37.44\00:23:39.61 MikaMocha, right? I do. So I'm going to go get ready. 00:23:39.71\00:23:42.04 Sasha, why don't you tell us about this song? 00:23:42.34\00:23:44.36 MikaMocha is the song that is taken from the... 00:23:44.56\00:23:48.35 the words are taken from the book of Exodus chapter 15:11. 00:23:48.55\00:23:51.74 "Who is like You, O Lord? " 00:23:51.94\00:23:54.70 Ummm... beautiful. 00:23:54.90\00:23:56.87 All right, Alex. Praise God! 00:23:57.17\00:23:59.76 Who among the gods is like you, O Lord? 00:23:59.96\00:24:02.93 Who is like You? Majestic in holiness; 00:24:03.24\00:24:06.87 awesome in glory; working wonders. 00:24:07.07\00:24:09.96 Who is like Thee, 00:25:08.20\00:25:13.78 O Lord, among 00:25:13.98\00:25:17.38 the gods? 00:25:17.58\00:25:22.17 Who is like Thee 00:25:23.15\00:25:28.49 O Lord? There is 00:25:28.69\00:25:32.45 none else. 00:25:32.65\00:25:36.79 You are awesome 00:25:38.25\00:25:43.74 in praise, 00:25:43.84\00:25:45.77 doing wonders. 00:25:45.97\00:25:50.93 O Lord, who is 00:25:51.14\00:25:55.14 like Thee, 00:25:55.17\00:26:00.65 O Lord? 00:26:00.79\00:26:06.72 Wow! Beautiful Hebrew/ English song! 00:27:12.22\00:27:15.13 Amen. Who among the gods is like Thee? 00:27:15.34\00:27:17.31 Friends, we're so happy that you joined us today. 00:27:17.51\00:27:21.23 I hope that you were touched and moved 00:27:21.43\00:27:24.08 just understanding truly what it means when God is speaking 00:27:24.28\00:27:28.67 of us converting. It's coming to Him 00:27:28.87\00:27:32.39 and this born again experience that is a personal one. 00:27:32.59\00:27:35.81 So on behalf of myself and Rachel and Sasha 00:27:36.01\00:27:39.29 may the Lord bless you and may He keep you. 00:27:39.49\00:27:41.54 May the Lord make His face to shine upon you 00:27:41.84\00:27:44.95 and be gracious to you. 00:27:45.15\00:27:46.52 May the Lord lift His countenance upon you 00:27:46.58\00:27:49.41 and bring you His peace. 00:27:49.71\00:27:52.06 Have a wonderful, blessed day 00:27:52.26\00:27:54.52 and come back again and join us next time 00:27:54.72\00:27:57.46 on Back To Our Roots. 00:27:57.66\00:27:59.55