Welcome to Back To Our Roots.
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Today we have a
great program for you.
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We're going to be talking
about Was Jesus raised as a Jew?
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And more importantly, when
He grew, did He teach against
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the Mosaic law?
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Stick around. We have a
great program for you today.
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Welcome to Back To Our Roots.
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Wonderful to have
you join us again.
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Today we have a
very special program.
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We're going to be talking about
Jesus as He is. That's right!
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Real important concept.
And let me introduce myself.
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I'm Pastor Alex Schlussler,
pastor of a congregation,
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a church down in south Florida.
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And... My name's Rachel
Hyman. I'm a minister of music.
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So Rachel and I have
come up in a similar way:
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both of us raised as Jews and
then found Jesus as our Messiah.
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And you know, when we
bring a topic such as this,
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Jesus As He Is, I think
the first thing that people are
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going to ask us is: "What
do you mean Jesus as He is? "
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Well Jesus is the God of
the Christians so to speak.
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And you know, from
a Jewish perspective
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I know that was a real
hindering block for me.
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Um-hmm. I don't know how
that affected you, Rachel.
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Well history and Christianity
today portrays Jesus as
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oh, very Christian
or even sometimes pagan.
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So to think of
Jesus growing up as Jewish
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in a Jewish home and even
with possibly Jewish traditions
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and customs seems a little...
kind of a little foreign.
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So you're saying and I
know that's what we're saying
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is that Jesus
was raised as a Jew.
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The culture that He came up in,
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the traditions... He
wouldn't have pushed them away.
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He was very much a part of that
civilization, of that culture,
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and I think that that culture
was very much a part of Him.
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Yes. Today, Rachel, once
again we have our good friend
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Alexander
Bolotnikov, Sasha we call him,
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is here to throw a theological
perspective on our discussion.
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So Sasha, why don't you
come on out and join us.
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I'm glad to be with you again.
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Yeah, Sasha. So
Sasha, as I've told you
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in the past, Sasha is
a good friend of ours.
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I've known Sasha for many years.
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He is a wonderful
speaker and teacher.
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He is working on
his Ph. D. right now,
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almost completed.
Yeah, almost completed.
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Almost completed. So
Sasha, today we're talking
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about this idea
of Jesus as He is.
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And what we man by
that is well, Jesus as a Jew
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and how important that
is for us as followers,
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as believers in
Jesus, to understand that.
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So you know the question
that we threw out was, was...
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Jesus, He was a Jew,
He was raised as a Jew
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so I guess that means that
He received a Jewish education
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as well. So what would
that have meant to Him?
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It is interesting
how the gospels portray
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Jesus' childhood.
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The only gospel written
by a non-Jewish author, Luke,
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because the other authors of
the New Testament are Jewish.
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Luke is not, but he is
the only one who actually
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goes into detail describing
to us Jesus' upbringing.
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And he starts with the fact that
Jesus first was circumcised.
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OK. So as it comes out
does it literally say that?
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Or is that something that
through the way it's written
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it infers that?
No, no, it's very clear
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in the text of Luke chapter 2
that His parents brought Jesus
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to the temple to be circumcised.
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So that would have been
the eighth day. Of course.
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On the eighth day.
That's very clear in Jewish
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commandment. And even
today that's a traditional thing
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which by the way - yes -
I went through that as well.
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Sasha, so go ahead.
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Well basically that's the
first interesting episode.
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And this shows how basically...
to me it tells me that
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God has no intention to separate
Jesus from the community
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He lived in. Right. So
He was circumcised on the
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eighth day. Then
what's the next thing
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that we see
happening in the gospels?
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The next thing what we
have in the gospel of Luke again
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chapter 2 is the
episode when He is 12 years old.
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OK. And it says
very interestingly
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His parents attended
the temple at the Passover
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every year. Which
would have been exactly
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a traditional thing.
God had commanded - right -
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that the Jews would do
that. Exactly. So we talk about
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Mary, His
mother, Joseph, you know.
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We talk about...
Luke - who is not Jewish -
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clearly portrays
them as Jewish parents.
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So they're there
around His twelfth year
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for the Passover, but there
would have been more going on.
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Of course. What
happens at the twelfth year...
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What happens is
He's lost in a way.
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It's all very well
known... it's a Christian story.
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But people don't pay
attention to the details.
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So His parents come back to
look for Him on the third day.
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They find Him in the
temple among the rabbis. Right.
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And my question always when
I like to discuss this story
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my question is always:
in the temple among rabbis?
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What do rabbis do in the temple?
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Because it's where the
priests are supposed to be.
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So literally doesn't
mean that Jesus was somewhere
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at the altar or God
forbid at the Holy Place
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or Most of Holy. It wasn't
about He was doing some ritual.
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He was at the adjacent
facility which was actually
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separated specifically for the
study of Torah, the scripture.
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And He was there
studying scripture with rabbis.
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And it is interesting that
He was asking them questions
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and answering their questions.
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And at the 12-year-old...
This is actually the time,
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13-year-old, every Jewish boy
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becomes what's known...
literally known... the son
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of the
commandment - Bar Mitzpah.
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Yeah. The son of the commandment
means it's the period
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of maturity - OK
- when a teenager
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is now responsible, he under-
stands the commandment. Right.
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So let's... Before we
go any further, Sasha,
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let's back up just a
little bit and kind of briefly
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can you take us through the
progression that a young boy
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would go through?
Approximately what age
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would he start his studies
and how would that progression
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go as he moves along?
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Well the young boy
today we know goes to
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school to study the Torah
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from four years
old... four years of age.
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And unlike Christian children
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that actually start to learn
about the Bible through some
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felt tactile, the
traditional Jewish children
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they go start studying letters
- the alphabet - so that they
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could read the Torah.
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And it's interesting. They
have a chart with an alphabet
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and they would make
child recognize letters.
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There's honey
candy and they would...
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and the child would pick up
the candy. And every time he
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recognized the letter
he would get the candy.
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Yeah. That's like Thy
word is sweetness in my mouth.
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Yeah, yeah... that's Psalm 19.
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That's a good way.
That's a good example of
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how we teach our
children to understand the book.
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So as they moved along
what would be the next step now
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once they moved past that?
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Then the next step is
preparation to adulthood.
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So they go to the rabbi
and the rabbi teaches them
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the Torah so that on their
Bar Mitzvah at the age of 13
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they could be prepared and
they could answer questions.
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They could give a little
reading, you know, and discourse
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over the Torah. And
that's what Jesus came
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to do at the temple.
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When Mary and Joseph
came and said: "Where are you?
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Where have you been? "
He said: "Don't you know
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that I was where... "I must
be about My Father's business. "
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Well, the literal
translation of this text says:
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"I was in what
belongs to My Father. "
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OK. And what belongs
to the Father? It's...
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And actually Father's
business is a good translation,
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good explanation. This
is the study of the Torah.
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He wasn't kind of sitting at
the temple like people imagine,
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you know, around some
kind of a huge cathedral
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sitting in front. No! He
was spending time with the
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traditional
learning institution.
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It's called Yeshiva.
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Yeshiva comes from the
word Yesha... to seek...
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when the disciples sit in front
of the rabbi and they listen.
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Wow! That exists even today.
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For a Jew to go study in
higher learning they would go
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to Yeshiva. Now
a quick question:
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you know, today in
Jewish communities Jewish people
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keep not only Biblical
laws but also Jewish tradition.
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Would you say that
Jesus also not only kept
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obviously Biblical Jewish
laws but also participated
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in typical traditions?
What would you say about that?
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And even with a Bar Mitzvah,
that's pretty much a custom?
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Of course, there is nothing in
the scripture about Bar Mitzvah.
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Right, exactly. And
we can look at Jesus.
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At times He
criticizes rabbis. Right.
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And the gospel is our
starting point to understand
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where Jesus disagrees with
rabbis and where He agrees.
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So I guess we maybe want to say
He kept the Jewish traditions
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that wouldn't go against
scripture. But that would be
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just tradition. I mean, this
is great. I mean, Bar Mitzvah...
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Teaching the child, it's
in harmony with what it says
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in Proverbs where it
says "instruct your child. "
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"Raise up a child
in the way he should go
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and when he is old
he will not depart... "
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He partook of the
tradition of the time.
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Yeah, exactly. And
you made a good point
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because I think that
what we see Jesus doing is
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as long as those
traditions didn't go contrary
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to the Bible -
to the scriptures -
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He always supported it.
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But we're going to shift just
a little bit, and I want to ask
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you this question, Sasha,
because I think some people
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may think the answer
would be yes, and that is:
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Did Jesus teach at any
time against the Mosaic laws?
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Against what we would know
as Torah? Oh absolutely not!
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And in fact we have
touched on this in our previous
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programs. But my
entire doctoral dissertation
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is actually dedicated to
the question of whether or not
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Jesus nullifies the law
of divorces which is written
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which is written in
Deuteronomy 24 verses 1-4.
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Because Jesus in the
gospel of Matthew chapter 5-
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the Sermon on the Mount -
says: "You heard it spoken
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if someone divorces his
wife he shall write to her
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a deal of divorcement. "
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And it is often in the
margins or in the commentaries
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there is always a
reference to Deuteronomy 24.
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And as we mentioned
before, often this is taken
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for granted without actual
reading of the law in the Torah.
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The law in the Torah
does not legislate divorce.
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The law in the Torah is
kind of lengthy and basically
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what it says is it
addresses the situation
00:12:22.34\00:12:26.43
when divorce actually
has occured - it happened -
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and the
remarriage follows divorce.
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And after this the
second marriage falls apart.
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Then the law legislates
that the former husband
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who initially divorced
cannot take his wife back
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after she remarries.
That's what the law said.
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Jesus isn't even
talking about this.
00:12:48.85\00:12:50.62
Jesus addresses the issue which
is in harmony with scripture.
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In Malachi chapter 2 verse 16
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God specifically said: "For I
am the Lord, I hate divorces. "
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And Jesus addresses this
topic and talks about this.
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So the Sermon on the
Mount does not address
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the issue... does not go against
the laws which are in the Torah.
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But the difference is
in the Sermon on the Mount
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Jesus always used:
"You heard it said...
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you heard it said. "
And there He's speaking
00:13:27.32\00:13:30.17
in particular - we discussed
this a little bit - about
00:13:30.37\00:13:32.98
the oral laws, right? which,
at that time and even today
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there is this... these two
parallel strains within Judaism
00:13:38.37\00:13:42.74
that the Jews believe that
the same time that the Torah
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was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai
00:13:45.97\00:13:47.82
that an oral law was
given to him at the same time.
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Right. So Jesus is...
He's not just speaking to them
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saying, speaking against
the Pharasaic, the Saducees'
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abuse of Torah in how they're
interpreting the oral law.
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Yeah, those misinterpretations
because the previous chapter
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the story of His
temptation at the desert
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He always refers: "It is
written; it is written. "
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That's a great story.
We'll take just a couple minutes
00:14:17.23\00:14:19.89
and let's talk about
that because that's one of my
00:14:19.99\00:14:22.54
favorite examples
in the New Testament
00:14:22.64\00:14:25.24
of how Jesus without a
doubt is standing very firm
00:14:25.44\00:14:30.53
on quoting words from
the Torah. Which by the way
00:14:30.73\00:14:33.73
in previous programs
we've explained that when we use
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the term Torah we're speaking
most of the times of the first
00:14:38.68\00:14:42.38
five books of the Old Testament
00:14:42.48\00:14:44.49
but it also can mean the entire
writings of the Old Testament.
00:14:44.69\00:14:48.57
So here in this little
portion in the gospel of Matthew
00:14:48.77\00:14:54.14
chapter 4, you know,
after Jesus has been baptized
00:14:54.24\00:14:57.64
and He heads out into the
wildereness, literally it seems
00:14:57.85\00:15:01.04
like the Holy Spirit is driving
Him out into the wilderness.
00:15:01.14\00:15:04.95
And He's going to
spend 40 days fasting, right?
00:15:05.15\00:15:08.85
And then the enemy of our
souls, Satan, appears to Him.
00:15:09.05\00:15:13.71
And this is like
the greatest swordfight
00:15:13.91\00:15:18.06
with God's Word
at this point, right?
00:15:18.27\00:15:20.85
Yeah. Because you get
this picture of first Satan
00:15:20.95\00:15:23.97
quoting - at least
you think he's quoting -
00:15:24.17\00:15:27.09
directly from scripture.
And then we have Jesus
00:15:27.29\00:15:30.30
as you were saying, He'll
say: "No, it is written... "
00:15:30.40\00:15:32.95
And there's this back and forth.
00:15:33.15\00:15:35.33
And I think that's
such an important thing
00:15:35.54\00:15:38.25
for us to understand:
00:15:38.45\00:15:39.82
that Satan really
knows the Bible. Um-hmm.
00:15:39.85\00:15:42.33
But it is very important
for us to know the Bible
00:15:42.53\00:15:46.48
in it's context.
Right, but let me finish
00:15:46.58\00:15:49.26
what I was saying.
Satan knows the Bible and
00:15:49.36\00:15:51.56
because of that
he really twists it.
00:15:51.66\00:15:54.31
And he will take it out of
context... which is exactly
00:15:54.51\00:15:57.57
what this shows us. So Sasha,
00:15:57.60\00:16:01.38
describe to us a little bit
from this Biblical standpoint
00:16:01.58\00:16:05.83
how we see Satan on one hand
quoting something out of context
00:16:06.03\00:16:11.32
and how Jesus in each
one of these back and forth,
00:16:11.52\00:16:14.28
these parries like a swordfight,
Jesus is commenting back.
00:16:14.48\00:16:17.85
It is interesting
that Jesus always refers
00:16:18.15\00:16:23.02
in His answers for example
00:16:23.22\00:16:26.17
the first time
Satan approaches Him:
00:16:26.37\00:16:29.92
"Oh, if you are the Son
of God... " which in Hebrew
00:16:30.02\00:16:34.40
also sounds: "If
you are divine... "
00:16:34.50\00:16:36.85
You know, "If you have
power to turn these stones
00:16:37.05\00:16:41.30
into bread... " And
Jesus refers to Deuteronomy
00:16:41.40\00:16:45.30
which means "Not by
the bread alone... "
00:16:45.61\00:16:50.18
He cites the text which
Moses uses in his sermon
00:16:50.38\00:16:55.23
when talking about the
people of Israel walking around
00:16:55.43\00:17:00.89
the desert eating manna
and receiving the Torah.
00:17:00.99\00:17:05.24
And so Jesus - unlike
Satan, who takes the statement
00:17:05.44\00:17:10.73
out of context - He
uses the statement of the
00:17:10.83\00:17:14.65
Torah in their proper context
00:17:14.75\00:17:17.43
and He relies... If
we... if we just often say:
00:17:17.63\00:17:21.33
"Oh, not by the bread alone"
00:17:21.44\00:17:23.10
we're not getting
the whole picture.
00:17:23.30\00:17:25.46
The whole picture we have to go
back to the book of Deuteronomy.
00:17:25.66\00:17:29.46
We have to read what Moses
is speaking and then we see
00:17:29.66\00:17:33.62
the whole depth of
what Jesus is trying to say.
00:17:33.72\00:17:39.15
And in every
instance Satan would use
00:17:39.35\00:17:44.55
some test from a
temptation because for example
00:17:44.75\00:17:48.70
he would raise Him on
top of the temple wall
00:17:48.90\00:17:54.36
and he would quote to
Him from Psalm 90. Right.
00:17:54.56\00:17:59.21
You know...
yeah, that's the Bible.
00:17:59.41\00:18:01.61
But Jesus always goes
back. And He again goes back
00:18:01.81\00:18:07.27
to Deuteronomy and
again speaks: "Thou shalt not
00:18:07.48\00:18:11.03
put the Lord
your God to tempt. "
00:18:11.23\00:18:14.28
That's again the same story.
00:18:14.38\00:18:16.07
He goes back
again to the same story.
00:18:16.27\00:18:19.22
And there is a very
good idea that Matthew
00:18:19.42\00:18:24.86
has why he presents it that way.
00:18:25.06\00:18:27.92
Because in Matthew's
composition of the gospel
00:18:28.12\00:18:31.82
Jesus is repeating
the exodus from Egypt.
00:18:32.02\00:18:36.58
When people of Israel...
whenever they walk through the
00:18:36.88\00:18:40.39
desert... they had their
failure. Now Jesus does it over.
00:18:40.49\00:18:45.02
So Jesus walked
through the water of Jordan
00:18:45.22\00:18:48.57
imitating the Red Sea.
00:18:48.77\00:18:50.96
Then the next thing
He is in the desert.
00:18:51.17\00:18:53.65
And then He goes through trials.
00:18:53.75\00:18:56.21
But unlike people of Israel
- they fell under pressure -
00:18:56.42\00:19:00.63
Jesus now does it
over and in a sense...
00:19:00.83\00:19:03.73
does it right... Yeah!
Does it right. Yeah, praise God!
00:19:03.83\00:19:06.39
You know, it's so interesting.
Sometimes I've been in some
00:19:06.49\00:19:08.64
public places where a guy will
have like a dark blonde beard
00:19:08.74\00:19:12.92
and some long blonde
hair and somebody will walk up
00:19:13.12\00:19:15.60
to this guy and
say: "You look so...
00:19:15.70\00:19:17.75
Has anybody ever told you
that you look like Jesus? "
00:19:17.95\00:19:20.84
He'd get hired. You know,
play Jesus in a play or theater
00:19:21.04\00:19:24.14
or something. And I'll
walk up to him and I'll say:
00:19:24.24\00:19:26.53
"Well actually most
likely Jesus probably had
00:19:26.63\00:19:32.10
curly dark brown or
black hair and brown eyes. "
00:19:32.30\00:19:35.73
Dark complexion. "Dark
complexion, olive skin. "
00:19:35.83\00:19:38.37
And I've heard
people like: "Oh, no way. "
00:19:38.47\00:19:40.26
You know, when we look back
in history, when would you say
00:19:40.46\00:19:43.12
Jesus got stripped of
His "Jewishness" so to speak?
00:19:43.22\00:19:46.56
'Cause we just... Some people
are just surprised and shocked
00:19:46.66\00:19:49.13
when they really hear
and learn about how Jewish
00:19:49.23\00:19:52.38
Jesus really was. The
major problems begin to occur
00:19:52.48\00:19:57.17
right after the
death of the apostles.
00:19:57.27\00:20:00.23
Right after
destruction of the temple
00:20:00.43\00:20:04.17
and there was another bad
event of a big war between...
00:20:04.37\00:20:09.39
in Judea - second Judean
war - when there was rebellion
00:20:09.79\00:20:13.72
against Romans raised by
the man named Bar Kokhba.
00:20:13.82\00:20:18.55
And this is what
actually provoked
00:20:18.75\00:20:23.58
a strong, strong
anti-Jewish sentiment
00:20:23.78\00:20:27.02
in the entire
Roman Empire. Ummm.
00:20:27.22\00:20:29.18
And what happened:
Romans started to mock
00:20:29.38\00:20:35.14
Jews in every possible way
including religious mockery.
00:20:35.34\00:20:39.84
They produced - we
have the documents -
00:20:40.04\00:20:42.74
where they produced
theatrical plays - comedies -
00:20:42.94\00:20:47.36
that would mock
Sabbath particularly.
00:20:47.56\00:20:51.18
For example, they would
have a camel on the stage
00:20:51.21\00:20:54.82
and they would have
him clothed in sackcloth.
00:20:55.02\00:20:59.22
And they say: "Why
is he in sackcloth? "
00:20:59.42\00:21:01.93
"Because it's a Jewish
camel and it's the Sabbath
00:21:02.13\00:21:04.94
and the Jew
doesn't feed the camel
00:21:05.14\00:21:07.03
so the camel is in mourning. "
00:21:07.23\00:21:09.43
And so
everybody... the whole audience
00:21:09.63\00:21:12.28
laughs, roars in laughter.
That's been documented.
00:21:12.48\00:21:15.28
And so this
mockery leads Christians
00:21:15.48\00:21:20.70
who are Judea
Christians, many of whom
00:21:20.90\00:21:23.22
joined from the other nations,
joined the Judea Christians.
00:21:23.42\00:21:27.63
It leads them to actually
push away from the Jewish roots.
00:21:27.83\00:21:32.19
And that's where
the problem begins.
00:21:32.39\00:21:34.87
And it's something
that progresses on.
00:21:35.08\00:21:36.68
I want to just jump
back because we've only got
00:21:36.78\00:21:39.16
just a few minutes left and
then Rachel's going to bless us
00:21:39.26\00:21:43.06
with a song. You
know, one of the passages
00:21:43.16\00:21:46.67
that Jesus states that I
always found very interesting
00:21:46.77\00:21:49.53
when He makes this comment:
"Not one jot or tittle will pass
00:21:49.73\00:21:52.89
away. " Sasha, just real briefly
what is a jot and a tittle?
00:21:53.00\00:21:56.42
What exactly is that because
I know that's not correct.
00:21:56.62\00:21:58.73
Yeah, jot is the
Hebrew letter yodh which looks
00:21:58.93\00:22:04.12
like an apostrophe.
00:22:04.22\00:22:05.76
And a tittle is another
letter which can be confused.
00:22:05.97\00:22:11.60
It's a letter yodh which
you actually draw a little line.
00:22:11.70\00:22:14.66
It's like a stroke. So I
guess what He's saying is
00:22:14.83\00:22:18.22
that the letters that
even seem to be the least,
00:22:18.42\00:22:21.46
the most nominal of
the letters on the scroll,
00:22:21.66\00:22:24.76
even those smallest letters
aren't going to pass away.
00:22:24.96\00:22:28.47
What Jesus is
talking He is talking about
00:22:28.67\00:22:32.27
the meticulousness of
the study of the Torah
00:22:32.48\00:22:35.42
in such a way that
when you write these letters
00:22:35.62\00:22:38.93
He will teach you to write
it and read it and understand it
00:22:39.13\00:22:43.26
in such a way that
you will not confuse that.
00:22:43.36\00:22:46.05
So notice basically in
modern English it would sound
00:22:46.25\00:22:49.60
"Not a single word -
not a single statement -
00:22:49.80\00:22:54.12
will be confused in My sight. "
00:22:54.32\00:22:56.51
So in other words then to
think that in any way that
00:22:56.61\00:22:58.81
Jesus ever spoke against...
in any way tried to eliminate
00:22:59.01\00:23:04.55
what we know as Mosaic
law, Torah, the Old Testament -
00:23:04.75\00:23:07.59
or His own heritage -
right - is absolutely false.
00:23:07.69\00:23:09.88
So I'd love to continue
this but Rachel, we want to
00:23:10.08\00:23:12.33
hear from you. You
have a song for us today.
00:23:12.44\00:23:13.81
What are you going
to sing? Yes me Hoo.
00:23:13.84\00:23:15.83
Yes me Hoo. What
does Yes me Hoo mean?
00:23:16.03\00:23:17.47
Yes me Hoo means rejoice.
00:23:17.67\00:23:20.09
Those who keep the
Sabbath and call it the delight
00:23:20.29\00:23:25.83
will rejoice in the
Lord's kingdom. OK, so Rachel
00:23:26.03\00:23:29.96
and Martin is back
with us. Thank you, brother.
00:23:30.16\00:23:33.90
And let's hear this song.
00:23:34.10\00:23:35.88
Wonderful! Rachel,
what an awesome song.
00:26:34.57\00:26:38.45
The Sabbath is a
beautiful thing to sing about.
00:26:38.66\00:26:40.60
Oh man! That's great.
I'd like to sing more.
00:26:40.80\00:26:42.89
That was really good.
Well, we want to thank you
00:26:42.99\00:26:45.80
once again for
joining us on this program.
00:26:46.00\00:26:48.81
You know, I think it's
such an important thing, Rachel,
00:26:49.11\00:26:52.05
that as we draw closer to
Jesus we really strive to really
00:26:52.25\00:26:55.62
understand exactly who He is
- that's right - in the context
00:26:55.72\00:26:59.06
of all that He was. So we
want to thank you once again
00:26:59.16\00:27:02.31
for joining us on
Back To Our Roots.
00:27:02.41\00:27:04.92
Rachel, what a pleasure
it is to do this with you.
00:27:05.02\00:27:08.53
We want to thank Sasha and
Martin again for being with us.
00:27:08.63\00:27:12.25
And we want to
thank you most of all.
00:27:12.45\00:27:14.18
We pray that as we
bring the Hebraic roots to you
00:27:14.38\00:27:18.94
that God is going to draw you
00:27:19.14\00:27:21.81
even closer and
closer to our Messiah
00:27:22.01\00:27:24.35
because that's what
it's all about. That's right!
00:27:24.55\00:27:26.41
So I'd like to close
today with the Aaronic blessing.
00:27:26.61\00:27:31.22
And I've been saying it to you.
00:27:31.42\00:27:32.79
I'm going to do it
in English and Hebrew.
00:27:32.84\00:27:34.35
May the Lord bless
you. May He keep you.
00:27:34.55\00:27:36.22
May the Lord make His
face to shine upon you
00:27:36.42\00:27:37.99
and be gracious to
you. May the Lord lift His
00:27:38.09\00:27:39.97
countenance upon you
and bring you His peace.
00:27:40.07\00:27:43.06