Hello, and welcome, to
Behold the Lambs Presents.
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I'm Chris Shelton your host
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and we want to
welcome our study guests
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from here in the United
States and around the world.
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We simply love
that you've chosen
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to spend this quality
time with us today in study.
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And today's
message is one that has
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well that's brought
about a lot of sincere
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hard felt studies
and even some debates
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in several protestant
churches in our recent history.
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The topic entitled
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of today's message
is "Women's Ordination."
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It's a
challenging topic as we sit
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and compare Bible passages.
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They clearly show God using
women in authoritative roles,
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you know,
generally occupied by men
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as well as being called
as for prophets and teachers
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and with the very
subordinate picture
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that Paul portrays of women
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in the early New
Testament church.
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This is also multiplied
with the written history
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of Christ calling and
using many sincere godly women
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in the formation of the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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as well as the fact
that there's still fulfilling
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vital roles in our church today.
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Ellen G. White wrote
that it was in Portland, Maine
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that she was
given her first vision
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and was called into the field.
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She said that in Portland, Maine
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is where the
Lord had ordained her.
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So is there a balance
found in the scripture
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to all this important
concern of women's ordination.
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And is it
possible, think about this,
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is it possible
that the answer lies
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as to the office in
which women maybe ordained.
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Get out your notepads
and endure to peer the heaven
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right now as we begin our
study with Pastor Kenny Shelton.
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But first we are so
blessed to listen to a song
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that is entitled
"Come Let Us Reason"
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as sung by Stephanie Dawn
from the 3ABN Worship Center.
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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That's what God says
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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Says the Lord
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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That's what God says
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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Says the Lord
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Though your sins be as scarlet
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They shall be as white as snow
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Though they be red like crimson
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They shall be as wool
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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That's what God says
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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Says the Lord
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Though your sins be as scarlet
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They shall be as white as snow
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Though they be red like crimson
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They shall be as wool
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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That's what God says
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Come, let us
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Reason together
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Says the Lord
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Thanks again for joining
us here at Behold the Lamb
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and we're always grateful
and thankful for the good music
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that comes before
the preaching part of it
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and I know it's
a blessing to you.
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We pray to prepare
your heart and your mind
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to receive the message.
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You've heard my wife say already
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this message is
you know could be
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kind of wall to
with many many people
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but it's one we
need to approach.
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And if you have in a
while it'll be good to go over
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because it's a subject
that's being going on for oh,
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close to probably 40 years
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and lot of people have no idea--
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Women's Ordination.
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So we need to really,
as soon as we say that
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I noticed they'll be some people
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that'll be a wall
that would be put up.
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Don't, don't let that happen.
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You want to, I want to know
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what God's word has to say on it
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when it comes to ordaining
women as elders or pastors.
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Now, we're doing at the
clear minds, clear hearts
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let God's word speak to us.
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You know, it's good
that we read the Bible
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and as we do is we have
prayer here in just a moment.
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In Matthew 16:18, it says,
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"Upon this rock I
will build my church."
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Now, remember upon this
rock I will build my church
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and as you continue
on 1 Corinthians 10:4
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says "that rock
is Jesus Christ."
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Let's have prayer to gear.
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Let's pray the Holy Spirit
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will lead us and
guide us into all truth.
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All
preconceived ideas put aside.
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Let's try to
balance up the scripture
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and see what God has
to say on this subject.
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Will you pray with me please?
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Loving Father in heaven,
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we thank You for
the privilege of prayer.
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We thank You that You
promised to hear our voice
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and You promised to answer.
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Lord, we want to
know what is truth.
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We want to be guided
by Your sweet Holy Spirit.
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We want our minds illuminated.
We want heaven to speak to us.
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And Lord, we may be
approaching some territory today
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that some people
just really don't want to.
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And maybe they
went so far into it
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that they want to turn back
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but Lord, we do
want to hear Your voice
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in regardless of
what is taking place
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that we'll listen to Your voice,
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we'll hear Your word
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and that we will
so adjust our life
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whatever it takes.
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We thank You for those who
watch and those who listen,
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thank You for the sweet promise
that thy Holy Spirit now.
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I ask for
forgiveness of any sin,
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anything in my heart
life that needs not be there
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because I really
need to hear from heaven.
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I thank You Lord, for hearing
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for answering
prayer in Jesus name, amen.
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Isn't that wonderful
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that we can go to
the Lord in prayer?
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Isn't that wonderful we know
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we have a Savior
who cares for us,
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a Savior that
wants us to know Him
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better and better
each and every day
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and the importance of knowing
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what the Bible
teaches on certain subjects.
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Because sometime you
know we want to please
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where people pleaser
rather than God pleasers.
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And so you know we may have
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that you say also right motives.
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But you know we
want to please God
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more than we want to
please man, don't we?
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So when we talk
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about the subject
of Women's Ordination,
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remember we're
specifically talking
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about ordaining elders
women as elders and pastors.
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I'll mention this as we go.
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But you know Scripture
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doesn't make a difference
between elder/pastors.
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So you have to
incorporate both of those
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when we talk
about the ordaining of.
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Now if there is an ordaining of
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then we need to
see it in scripture
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it needs to be consistent,
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there needs to be
weight of evidence
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that we can use.
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Now remember some of
you it's interesting,
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some people use
because when the Bible
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is silent on a subject
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you feel you have every right
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to go any
direction that you want to.
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No, that's not so.
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If the scriptures are silent
then you need to be silent
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and I need to be silent.
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Oh, that makes sense to
you, because we can't project.
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God-- the Bible said
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God reveals those
things to us, right,
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that He wants us to
know and understand.
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So we have no right and
we don't want to do it here
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to go where God
hasn't already led
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or had shown us
the right direction.
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Now for those of you
maybe our new Christians
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we're gonna spend this first.
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This is three parts
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so three hours
we're gonna spend on it.
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And so we're gonna
examine several different areas
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so if the questions are
not answered in the first part
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it's because we're
setting up a platform standard.
00:10:03.19\00:10:06.62
Right, we want to look at this
and set a real solid platform
00:10:06.65\00:10:09.82
on why we think
this is important.
00:10:09.85\00:10:12.94
Now, when you talk to man
the new members ordination
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what does it really mean?
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You realize there's some people
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you'll say well,
this is so elementary.
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There're people in the
world that maybe never heard
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the word ordained
and what it really means.
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Now when someone is ordained
as it were in the church
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it doesn't mean that anything is
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when you're
ordained in hands or laid on
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that any new graces are added
or new qualifications are added
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or you know any
virtue is added in that.
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But remember
Jesus set this all up.
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And so we want to follow it.
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Ordain simply
means it set apart.
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It means called, you know,
called of God is appointment.
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God has appointed
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and so when we
are when we're chosen
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when we appoint
and when we set apart
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it actually, is
the act of the church.
00:11:00.27\00:11:04.07
An act of what?
An act of the church.
00:11:04.10\00:11:07.17
And a person is
functioning in that capacity.
00:11:07.20\00:11:10.42
You know, the laying out
of hands you hear that lot.
00:11:10.45\00:11:12.46
We're not gonna go
into bunch of detail
00:11:12.49\00:11:13.75
but the laying on of hands
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we look at to perform a function
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in behalf of the church.
00:11:17.32\00:11:19.72
So remember when
the laying out of hands
00:11:19.75\00:11:21.69
your being set aside
to fulfill a certain role
00:11:21.72\00:11:24.34
or a certain
function in the church.
00:11:24.37\00:11:27.63
Now remember ordination is
an act, it is a commission,
00:11:27.66\00:11:32.21
it's
recognizing the call of God.
00:11:32.24\00:11:36.10
And so being
ordained by the church
00:11:36.13\00:11:37.97
what does that mean?
00:11:38.00\00:11:39.48
That means the
church recognizes you
00:11:39.51\00:11:41.45
and gives you authority
00:11:41.48\00:11:42.65
as it were to serve
as a representative.
00:11:42.68\00:11:46.29
And let me make
this real clear remember
00:11:46.32\00:11:48.23
God is more is important
right, He's most important.
00:11:48.26\00:11:51.43
And that God
chooses and God ordains
00:11:51.46\00:11:53.86
and He sends forth.
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And there will be many, many
people used in these last days
00:11:55.37\00:11:59.09
who have never been ordained
that will finish the work.
00:11:59.12\00:12:02.29
Ordination doesn't mean
that you're you may also
00:12:02.32\00:12:04.67
and you're
qualified to do something.
00:12:04.70\00:12:06.58
God ordains you and I think
00:12:06.61\00:12:08.71
it's very
important for us to realize
00:12:08.74\00:12:10.84
that we can serve
God we can serve God
00:12:10.87\00:12:14.49
the calling He put on your
life without being ordained.
00:12:14.52\00:12:18.58
So really ordination
in the Adventist church
00:12:18.61\00:12:21.08
we will say is
simply the Adventist church
00:12:21.11\00:12:23.20
recognizing that you are going
to be representative of them.
00:12:23.23\00:12:27.91
So they send okay, you can go
and speak in behalf of the Lord
00:12:27.94\00:12:31.13
so they recognize who you are.
00:12:31.16\00:12:32.40
So it's kind of a simple
thing then isn't it for us.
00:12:32.43\00:12:34.81
Ordinations,
remember we just read
00:12:34.84\00:12:37.49
upon this rock I
will build my church.
00:12:37.52\00:12:40.59
So any doctrine, any teaching,
00:12:40.62\00:12:42.52
anything that we do
must be build upon what?
00:12:42.55\00:12:44.82
On the rock, the
solid rock of Jesus Christ
00:12:44.85\00:12:47.73
and we mentioned Bible
says in 1 Corinthians 10:4.
00:12:47.76\00:12:50.90
"And that rock is Christ."
00:12:50.93\00:12:54.19
The Acts of the
Apostle page 595 says this.
00:12:54.22\00:12:58.33
"Upon the foundation of
Christ Himself had laid,
00:12:58.36\00:13:03.13
the apostles built
the church of God."
00:13:03.16\00:13:06.18
See how in
harmony, spirit of prophecy
00:13:06.21\00:13:08.21
and the Bible
in harmony together
00:13:08.24\00:13:09.94
upon the foundation that
rock you see the apostles,
00:13:09.97\00:13:13.53
you know the Jesus lay
00:13:13.56\00:13:14.63
the apostle begin to
build the New Testament church.
00:13:14.66\00:13:18.51
You know the
question of women's ordination
00:13:18.54\00:13:21.35
you know these elders
and there's pastors boy,
00:13:21.38\00:13:24.85
it's almost like dynamite.
00:13:24.88\00:13:26.74
I never see people
get so excited about it
00:13:26.77\00:13:29.03
and they will say
well, are you know what,
00:13:29.06\00:13:30.93
it's not new we just
mentioned to be this is not new.
00:13:30.96\00:13:35.10
It again goes back you know
long longer period than this
00:13:35.13\00:13:38.31
but at least 40
years it goes back.
00:13:38.34\00:13:40.81
And some action had been taken
00:13:40.84\00:13:42.17
then we will talk
about that in a moment.
00:13:42.20\00:13:43.99
And the question is to me
00:13:44.02\00:13:45.90
is almost like a
ticking time bomb.
00:13:45.93\00:13:49.35
People get all
excited about it for many.
00:13:49.38\00:13:52.71
It's so many the subjects really
00:13:52.74\00:13:54.27
that many people will
not get involved with period
00:13:54.30\00:13:57.05
because, they
know its' so wallow.
00:13:57.08\00:13:58.11
So they know that's explosive
00:13:58.14\00:13:59.50
and so they're
afraid to even approach it
00:13:59.53\00:14:01.92
but let me tell you
00:14:01.95\00:14:02.98
when you're not
approaching something
00:14:03.01\00:14:04.79
you know people who
are forced something
00:14:04.82\00:14:06.39
they continue to work
and continue to be motivated.
00:14:06.42\00:14:09.26
Some say I don't'
want to get involved
00:14:09.29\00:14:10.83
because I'm
gonna be misunderstood.
00:14:10.86\00:14:13.17
Now, I'll just
tell you right now
00:14:13.20\00:14:14.59
I know when I present this
00:14:14.62\00:14:15.77
and we go two, three hours
of this some of you who gonna--
00:14:15.80\00:14:18.54
now be careful you may
be calling me some names.
00:14:18.57\00:14:21.37
But you know
what if it's grounded
00:14:21.40\00:14:22.87
and rooted in the Word of God
00:14:22.90\00:14:24.21
listen, don't be calling
00:14:24.24\00:14:25.55
the messenger any kind of names.
00:14:25.58\00:14:28.34
Let's look and
say what is this here
00:14:28.37\00:14:30.31
we're looking at
what the Bible says here.
00:14:30.34\00:14:32.74
I don't want to be labeled.
00:14:32.77\00:14:33.89
I know you don't
want to be labeled.
00:14:33.92\00:14:35.20
I don't want to
be called, you know
00:14:35.23\00:14:36.60
they say black balled
or you know ousted out
00:14:36.63\00:14:39.83
but we want to see
00:14:39.86\00:14:40.89
what God really
has to say on it.
00:14:40.92\00:14:43.18
And again some believe
00:14:43.21\00:14:44.63
silence is the
best thing we can do.
00:14:44.66\00:14:46.28
I just be quiet on this thing.
00:14:46.31\00:14:48.06
Is it, remember I just mentioned
00:14:48.09\00:14:50.59
while we're silent many
times and this is a problem.
00:14:50.62\00:14:53.66
If I'm on God's people
lot of time we become silent
00:14:53.69\00:14:56.47
and again while we are silent
the enemy is still working.
00:14:56.50\00:14:59.71
He's still working
to continue to push
00:14:59.74\00:15:02.95
what he wants to see take place.
00:15:02.98\00:15:04.88
He is pushing opinions of men.
00:15:04.91\00:15:07.05
He's pushing doctrines
and commandments of men.
00:15:07.08\00:15:09.87
We don't want that.
00:15:09.90\00:15:10.93
We want the certain Word of God.
00:15:10.96\00:15:13.13
Wouldn't we-- wouldn't we--
00:15:13.16\00:15:15.84
let me ask you
wouldn't we better
00:15:15.87\00:15:17.50
would be better off if we did
00:15:17.53\00:15:19.38
what John 5:39 tells us
to search the scripture.
00:15:19.41\00:15:25.00
For search the
scripture with a determination
00:15:25.03\00:15:27.93
to know what is truth.
00:15:27.96\00:15:31.50
A lie is not gonna help
you. Side tracking is not good.
00:15:31.53\00:15:35.35
There is always you
know consequences to pay.
00:15:35.38\00:15:37.77
So are we not better off to say
00:15:37.80\00:15:39.25
I really want to
know what it says.
00:15:39.28\00:15:41.09
And if it doesn't say
here I don't want to project
00:15:41.12\00:15:42.92
and other wants to say
00:15:42.95\00:15:44.00
well it seems
like we're in ought to.
00:15:44.03\00:15:47.42
And on this subject it's
gonna challenge some of you.
00:15:47.45\00:15:50.64
Remember there's lot of steps
00:15:50.67\00:15:51.74
have been taken over
these years right here
00:15:51.77\00:15:53.98
and just to simply say
you know we're not challenged.
00:15:54.01\00:15:56.33
We are challenged.
00:15:56.36\00:15:57.93
We're challenged to say
00:15:57.96\00:15:58.99
we have been going
in the right direction
00:15:59.02\00:16:00.52
or we have not been
going in the right direction
00:16:00.55\00:16:03.17
and if we are not
going in the right direction
00:16:03.20\00:16:04.92
then we must making
about face and that's not easy.
00:16:04.95\00:16:09.64
It's not easy only
by the grace of God
00:16:09.67\00:16:12.40
and the love for the
truth are we are willing to say
00:16:12.43\00:16:14.25
well, may be we have just
acted little too quickly here.
00:16:14.28\00:16:17.54
Now the challenge comes about
00:16:17.57\00:16:20.07
because the Bible
first challenges me.
00:16:20.10\00:16:21.86
It's challenged me
every time I read it.
00:16:21.89\00:16:23.98
I'm challenged by and
I know maybe you're too.
00:16:24.01\00:16:27.11
Because the Bible
said first of all Kenny,
00:16:27.14\00:16:29.14
here is what has to be,
you must have a willing mind.
00:16:29.17\00:16:32.62
If you read that
in 2 Corinthians 8:12.
00:16:32.65\00:16:34.94
First it's going to take
00:16:34.97\00:16:36.55
those of you who are closed mind
00:16:36.58\00:16:37.85
blessed your heart no
one rose from the dead
00:16:37.88\00:16:39.62
you're gonna believe anyway.
00:16:39.65\00:16:41.44
But if you have a willing
mind to really, really know
00:16:41.47\00:16:45.37
what has been
instituted here as scriptural
00:16:45.40\00:16:49.27
and if it is and
let's continue on with it
00:16:49.30\00:16:51.43
if not let's correct it.
00:16:51.46\00:16:53.81
Then we must
have a willing mind.
00:16:53.84\00:16:55.21
Then we must accept the
word with all readiness of mind
00:16:55.24\00:16:59.90
that the Book of
Acts 17:11 tells us.
00:16:59.93\00:17:03.14
If we first ever
have a willing mind,
00:17:03.17\00:17:04.96
if we just will
accept these truth
00:17:04.99\00:17:07.04
with all
readiness of mind and heart
00:17:07.07\00:17:09.18
you know what
the results will be
00:17:09.21\00:17:10.83
the Bible is clear on
that in Philippians 2:2.
00:17:10.86\00:17:13.29
Do you know what it says?
00:17:13.32\00:17:14.35
It said, "We're
going to be in one accord
00:17:14.38\00:17:16.34
and we're going to be" what?
00:17:16.37\00:17:17.70
"And one mind." One
mind and one accord.
00:17:17.73\00:17:20.89
Is it unity of big part
00:17:20.92\00:17:22.15
of what we're
talking about here?
00:17:22.18\00:17:23.76
Any subject that
comes up among us
00:17:23.79\00:17:25.51
as God's last day people
that divides and separates
00:17:25.54\00:17:28.48
we need a firm foundation.
00:17:28.51\00:17:30.66
We need to be
able to stand together
00:17:30.69\00:17:32.49
not let it divide us.
00:17:32.52\00:17:35.52
You know we must desire
the quick willing in the sin.
00:17:35.55\00:17:39.92
We must have an eager readiness
that Bible talks about.
00:17:39.95\00:17:44.06
And you know what this does.
00:17:44.09\00:17:45.40
This will produce
a love for the truth
00:17:45.43\00:17:49.21
in 2 Thessalonians 2:10.
00:17:49.24\00:17:51.67
A love for the truth
00:17:51.70\00:17:54.50
not what we would
like the results to be.
00:17:54.53\00:17:59.29
Now I mentioned unity.
00:17:59.32\00:18:02.05
How important is unity to you?
How important is unity to me?
00:18:02.08\00:18:05.72
But we know the Bible
it's just very, very important.
00:18:05.75\00:18:07.92
God said it's going to be
in His church before He comes.
00:18:07.95\00:18:11.92
But you know what happens?
This is a key point here.
00:18:11.95\00:18:13.94
A key point we are talking
about an ordination right here
00:18:13.97\00:18:17.31
is simply can we be
unified on this subject?
00:18:17.34\00:18:21.04
Can we move forward?
00:18:21.07\00:18:22.10
Will we follow what
the Bible has to say?
00:18:22.13\00:18:24.93
Or when we hear something
that we don't want to hear
00:18:24.96\00:18:28.46
that we begin to refuse it.
00:18:28.49\00:18:31.09
That reminds me so
much of remember Steven
00:18:31.12\00:18:33.75
you know when he
before he was stoned.
00:18:33.78\00:18:36.13
You know Steven was boy,
what a man of God that he was.
00:18:36.16\00:18:39.64
And Steven was
defending the truth.
00:18:39.67\00:18:43.26
He was as he was
defending the truth.
00:18:43.29\00:18:45.17
He-- you know, what he was doing
00:18:45.20\00:18:48.85
he was defending the truth
00:18:48.88\00:18:50.61
in the front of the
priest and the rulers.
00:18:50.64\00:18:54.37
Wow, how heavy
that would be today.
00:18:54.40\00:18:57.23
The religious leaders
he was defending the truth.
00:18:57.26\00:19:00.85
Wow, you know what happened.
00:19:00.88\00:19:04.60
As these priests and
rulers heard this truth
00:19:04.63\00:19:07.96
because they had been
doing and teaching other things
00:19:07.99\00:19:12.44
they were filled
with hatred and jealousy
00:19:12.47\00:19:16.34
and envy instead of yelling to,
00:19:16.37\00:19:19.76
listen, instead of
yelling to the evidences
00:19:19.79\00:19:22.77
they were determined
to silence his voice.
00:19:22.80\00:19:26.54
Interesting, you'll
realize there'll be people
00:19:26.57\00:19:28.63
who will hear this, who
are not in agreement with it.
00:19:28.66\00:19:31.78
They're not going
to take scripture,
00:19:31.81\00:19:33.04
they're not going to
take spirit of prophecy,
00:19:33.07\00:19:34.45
they're just not
going to be in agreement
00:19:34.48\00:19:36.11
and they do
exactly what Steven did.
00:19:36.14\00:19:37.89
They may not say well physically
00:19:37.92\00:19:39.11
we're gonna pick a stone of it.
00:19:39.14\00:19:40.75
But they're gonna
try to silence the voice.
00:19:40.78\00:19:44.26
Remember, it's not
the messenger's voice
00:19:44.29\00:19:45.41
that we're interested in.
00:19:45.44\00:19:46.47
It's voice of God, instead it.
00:19:46.50\00:19:48.01
This is the what so--
so, so very, very important.
00:19:48.04\00:19:51.40
And do you
realize when they try to
00:19:51.43\00:19:52.90
when he was telling this
truth what they accused him of.
00:19:52.93\00:19:58.48
They said he was preaching
00:19:58.51\00:20:00.65
delusive and dangerous doctrine.
00:20:00.68\00:20:04.46
Some people will
say, well, listen delusive
00:20:04.49\00:20:05.97
and dangerous doctrines
that's you're preaching.
00:20:06.00\00:20:09.24
We need the silence.
00:20:09.27\00:20:11.20
Instead of that say,
what is it that's been said?
00:20:11.23\00:20:13.56
Let's look in the Word of God.
00:20:13.59\00:20:15.71
I can say to you
00:20:15.74\00:20:16.77
this is probably
the most sensitive
00:20:16.80\00:20:21.58
and may be the
most emotional subject
00:20:21.61\00:20:24.77
that I have ever had to approach
00:20:24.80\00:20:26.65
and I know there's
so many different ones
00:20:26.68\00:20:28.03
but I'm talking
about personalities
00:20:28.06\00:20:30.19
and people when I
say that because of what,
00:20:30.22\00:20:32.73
because of
friends, because of family
00:20:32.76\00:20:35.57
but whole views
that maybe are different
00:20:35.60\00:20:38.14
than the one that you hold
or the one that maybe I hold
00:20:38.17\00:20:40.71
and we don't want to
necessarily make anyone
00:20:40.74\00:20:43.24
you know get aggravated with us
00:20:43.27\00:20:46.04
or you know we're not
out right to hurt anyone
00:20:46.07\00:20:49.34
but sometime when you
disagree people get hurt
00:20:49.37\00:20:52.28
rather, than say I really want
to know what this is all about.
00:20:52.31\00:20:57.43
It's hard to tell
someone I disagree with you.
00:20:57.46\00:21:01.20
And here is why.
00:21:01.23\00:21:04.07
Because someone
what, will get hurt.
00:21:04.10\00:21:07.68
But sometime you
know when we think about
00:21:07.71\00:21:09.34
we don't want to
be at the same time
00:21:09.37\00:21:11.73
perceived as being
you know as intolerant,
00:21:11.76\00:21:16.21
dogmatic some people say.
00:21:16.24\00:21:17.75
You know that's just simply mean
00:21:17.78\00:21:19.10
assertive without approve
00:21:19.13\00:21:20.96
or this is my opinion
this is the way it is.
00:21:20.99\00:21:23.44
I don't want you to
think along that line today.
00:21:23.47\00:21:25.67
I'm interested in
what God says about it.
00:21:25.70\00:21:28.26
What the Holy
Spirit-- you will understand
00:21:28.29\00:21:29.89
what I'm saying
and I know you're too
00:21:29.92\00:21:31.65
if you really get down to it.
00:21:31.68\00:21:34.34
Many people discuss this subject
00:21:34.37\00:21:36.25
without weighing evidence,
without any kind of research.
00:21:36.28\00:21:41.18
And here's what
they do many times
00:21:41.21\00:21:42.24
because they don't
want to get into themselves
00:21:42.27\00:21:44.10
they ask
somebody that should know
00:21:44.13\00:21:47.61
and there is too many people,
00:21:47.64\00:21:48.72
that my opinion that should know
00:21:48.75\00:21:51.42
that's not
giving the right advice.
00:21:51.45\00:21:54.46
It comes to the office.
It comes I hear these things.
00:21:54.49\00:21:58.04
And I'm saying no wonder
why they would give that kind.
00:21:58.07\00:21:59.96
So somebody then wants
to study for themselves.
00:21:59.99\00:22:01.89
They ask somebody to
suppose to be in the know.
00:22:01.92\00:22:05.82
And then they comment you know
00:22:05.85\00:22:07.98
such illustration they'll say
00:22:08.01\00:22:10.29
well, yeah, but I know
my friends doing this job
00:22:10.32\00:22:13.27
and they're doing a good job
00:22:13.30\00:22:16.54
that position
must agree with them.
00:22:16.57\00:22:19.47
They say what we
see no problem with it.
00:22:19.50\00:22:23.40
You know what, that may be so.
00:22:23.43\00:22:26.65
But it's not
whether in this subject
00:22:26.68\00:22:29.31
that a person
can do the job or not
00:22:29.34\00:22:33.16
or whether they're
doing a great job or not.
00:22:33.19\00:22:36.46
The question goes
back to is it biblical.
00:22:36.49\00:22:39.36
Is women's
ordination as elders and pastors
00:22:39.39\00:22:41.99
is it really biblical
00:22:42.02\00:22:43.98
regardless if man said
that it is and man has done it?
00:22:44.01\00:22:48.10
Is it biblical that's
what it comes down to?
00:22:48.13\00:22:51.86
So doing a great job
00:22:51.89\00:22:53.37
and there's not made
void the Word of God.
00:22:53.40\00:22:56.71
Being qualified as they say
00:22:56.74\00:22:59.12
does not make
void the Word of God.
00:22:59.15\00:23:01.59
Because we can if
somebody can do it
00:23:01.62\00:23:03.09
better than somebody else
00:23:03.12\00:23:04.69
doesn't make
void the Word of God.
00:23:04.72\00:23:08.12
So you know we can
see here as we stay.
00:23:08.15\00:23:09.90
This is not-- you know
00:23:09.93\00:23:11.76
if you want to you know study it
00:23:11.79\00:23:13.34
and come out and say
00:23:13.37\00:23:14.40
this is what I
found in the Word of God
00:23:14.43\00:23:16.56
some people are afraid to do it
00:23:16.59\00:23:18.24
because there
will be repercussions.
00:23:18.27\00:23:21.88
I don't know about
you but you know what,
00:23:21.91\00:23:23.59
I don't to take the
repercussions of man
00:23:23.62\00:23:25.20
than
repercussions of God anytime.
00:23:25.23\00:23:28.51
Every subject is important,
every truth is important
00:23:28.54\00:23:32.86
and I feel this to
be faithful to scripture
00:23:32.89\00:23:37.66
has always been the key
00:23:37.69\00:23:40.32
to receiving the
blessings of God.
00:23:40.35\00:23:41.97
Did somebody hear that?
00:23:42.00\00:23:43.62
We say well, we
received the blessings of God
00:23:43.65\00:23:45.41
you know this is going great
this is going good over here
00:23:45.44\00:23:47.17
so it must be the--
00:23:47.20\00:23:48.23
you know setting the seed
here so God must be blessing
00:23:48.26\00:23:50.80
or lot of time God
allows us to set in seeds
00:23:50.83\00:23:56.06
and to do things and
He is trying to teach us
00:23:56.09\00:23:59.06
and corrects us
while we're there.
00:23:59.09\00:24:00.28
It's not because you're doing
everything right or I'm doing
00:24:00.31\00:24:02.78
we need to think along
this line we need to think.
00:24:02.81\00:24:06.01
Remember, the key to the
blessings of God is what,
00:24:06.04\00:24:09.71
being faithful to scripture,
being faithful to scripture.
00:24:09.74\00:24:14.48
And then you talk
about once we grasp,
00:24:14.51\00:24:17.40
did a whole of it,
what the Bible teaches
00:24:17.43\00:24:20.31
can simply just
simply say something like--
00:24:20.34\00:24:23.05
you know,
everybody I talk to who say,
00:24:23.08\00:24:26.17
well, thus sayeth
Lord and we should.
00:24:26.20\00:24:28.61
But can we simply set
aside a thus sayeth the Lord
00:24:28.64\00:24:32.37
once we regress
this is the truth
00:24:32.40\00:24:34.53
can we just set it aside
00:24:34.56\00:24:36.30
and say it
doesn't matter anymore
00:24:36.33\00:24:38.20
and here is what I hear.
00:24:38.23\00:24:39.85
People say well, I
know what it says but--
00:24:39.88\00:24:42.98
some people will say yeah,
00:24:43.01\00:24:44.04
but you know what
culture makes the difference.
00:24:44.07\00:24:47.04
Culture-- remember thus
sayeth the Lord and culture
00:24:47.07\00:24:51.64
and what does that simply mean?
00:24:51.67\00:24:53.46
Example, your background
00:24:53.49\00:24:56.33
I hear people say
because of my background
00:24:56.36\00:24:58.32
I was born in an other country
00:24:58.35\00:24:59.98
and you know my
training I was trained this way.
00:25:00.01\00:25:04.54
And some will say, well
00:25:04.57\00:25:05.78
we call our taste and our habits
00:25:05.81\00:25:07.92
and our practices our
skills are concept of something
00:25:07.95\00:25:14.89
a certain class of
people or we could even cover
00:25:14.92\00:25:18.75
this is for a certain
period of earth's history
00:25:18.78\00:25:21.29
or certain period of time
00:25:21.32\00:25:22.58
even though Bible doesn't
say that we might project that
00:25:22.61\00:25:25.19
and this is might be
for certain civilization.
00:25:25.22\00:25:29.20
Let me just, you know,
today just think we here today
00:25:29.23\00:25:33.11
because of what,
because of cultures
00:25:33.14\00:25:36.98
we've come to some conclusions.
00:25:37.01\00:25:38.57
We say because of
culture's around the world
00:25:38.60\00:25:41.15
and this may be
little hard for some to bear
00:25:41.18\00:25:43.04
but just stay
with me for a moment.
00:25:43.07\00:25:45.87
Some churches, some conferences,
00:25:45.90\00:25:48.20
some unions, some divisions
00:25:48.23\00:25:50.73
believe that
some-- we're talking about
00:25:50.76\00:25:54.28
some women and ordinating
00:25:54.31\00:25:56.20
and ordination of
elders and pastors
00:25:56.23\00:25:58.42
they'll say
they're just not ready yet.
00:25:58.45\00:26:02.13
They're not yet
ready to go forward
00:26:02.16\00:26:06.81
of ordaining women
into the gospel ministry.
00:26:06.84\00:26:09.74
So now just that just
opens up a question for me.
00:26:09.77\00:26:13.32
So a group of
people say there is,
00:26:13.35\00:26:15.89
this the folks over here
00:26:15.92\00:26:17.01
because of their
culture and their background
00:26:17.04\00:26:18.70
and there's some
different part of the world
00:26:18.73\00:26:20.03
they're just not ready yet.
00:26:20.06\00:26:23.50
What part is it okay
to ask you a question?
00:26:23.53\00:26:26.32
I hope it is.
00:26:26.35\00:26:28.49
You should be asking questions.
00:26:28.52\00:26:30.83
What part does culture
play when trying to find out
00:26:30.86\00:26:36.04
what the Bible
really says on the subject?
00:26:36.07\00:26:39.89
What part does
culture really play?
00:26:39.92\00:26:42.05
You know, may I say this boldly
00:26:42.08\00:26:43.48
and some of you
jump off your seats.
00:26:43.51\00:26:44.87
It's so bad.
Absolutely, nothing.
00:26:44.90\00:26:48.47
Culture absolutely nothing
00:26:48.50\00:26:51.14
when it comes
to the Word of God.
00:26:51.17\00:26:52.65
I will talk little
bit more about that.
00:26:52.68\00:26:55.11
I believe this a
person who loves and fears
00:26:55.14\00:26:57.15
God will consider
what the Scriptures
00:26:57.18\00:26:59.72
reveal regardless
of where they're at.
00:26:59.75\00:27:02.80
But we use these
excuses sometime.
00:27:02.83\00:27:04.90
Why do we use these excuses?
00:27:04.93\00:27:07.63
Let me give you
another illustration here.
00:27:07.66\00:27:09.30
I remember a few years ago
00:27:09.33\00:27:10.36
my wife and I
were in other country.
00:27:10.39\00:27:12.87
And we were
preaching and teaching
00:27:12.90\00:27:15.18
on this one of the subjects
and you know a controversial
00:27:15.21\00:27:17.19
and sometime I get
myself in these things.
00:27:17.22\00:27:20.09
And I want to believe this
00:27:20.12\00:27:21.15
because it's a
Holy Spirit wants us
00:27:21.18\00:27:22.21
and we're seeing great
things happen by the way.
00:27:22.24\00:27:23.97
But we were in
this another country
00:27:24.00\00:27:25.60
and we were
preaching on you know
00:27:25.63\00:27:27.64
the right kind of
dress for a Christian
00:27:27.67\00:27:29.39
and make up and
jewelry and all these things
00:27:29.42\00:27:32.32
that people want to fight today.
00:27:32.35\00:27:35.03
And people were interested
in what they were hearing
00:27:35.06\00:27:39.32
and the question bit
again to come to us real quickly
00:27:39.35\00:27:42.67
and there's you
know they said yeah,
00:27:42.70\00:27:44.64
but we are in
different country here
00:27:44.67\00:27:46.08
and we have different
cultures here in this country
00:27:46.11\00:27:48.55
and we are told that it's
okay by this group over here.
00:27:48.58\00:27:52.46
What do you think?
00:27:52.49\00:27:54.59
Oh, my you open a Pandora's
Box when you ask me that.
00:27:54.62\00:27:58.85
What do you think?
00:27:58.88\00:27:59.91
Well, my thinking myself
is, you know, it's not poured
00:27:59.94\00:28:02.99
what I think but
God's Word don't you see.
00:28:03.02\00:28:05.34
Don't you think it's important?
00:28:05.37\00:28:06.40
I do.
00:28:06.43\00:28:07.46
But they say as what
do you think about it.
00:28:07.49\00:28:10.77
The answer is really simple,
00:28:10.80\00:28:12.38
you didn't have to go through
some theological dissertation
00:28:12.41\00:28:16.04
and try to get somebody now.
00:28:16.07\00:28:17.24
If the answer is very simple
it does matter what country
00:28:17.27\00:28:21.79
or what culture or what
someone says is okay, why?
00:28:21.82\00:28:27.06
Because we all
have the same God,
00:28:27.09\00:28:29.08
because we all
have the Holy Scripture,
00:28:29.11\00:28:31.27
because we all have
the same Holy Spirit
00:28:31.30\00:28:33.54
that in John 16:13 it says
"will lead us into all truth."
00:28:33.57\00:28:38.27
Now somebody could say
00:28:38.30\00:28:39.33
well, I'm
insensitive, that's not it.
00:28:39.36\00:28:42.68
The enemy has let us
away from that thinking
00:28:42.71\00:28:45.12
that where the Bible condemn
something in other country
00:28:45.15\00:28:48.08
because they do
whatever the customs
00:28:48.11\00:28:50.37
is its okay to say God's
word doesn't mean what it says?
00:28:50.40\00:28:53.04
No. I beg no, it doesn't.
00:28:53.07\00:28:57.21
It's the same
God same Holy Spirit,
00:28:57.24\00:28:59.14
same Word of God.
00:28:59.17\00:29:02.47
Holy Spirit, John
16:13 we just mentioned
00:29:02.50\00:29:04.88
this leaders and all truth.
00:29:04.91\00:29:07.56
And sometime we fail here.
00:29:07.59\00:29:09.75
We make exceptions
where God doesn't make
00:29:09.78\00:29:13.70
exceptions in order, to please.
00:29:13.73\00:29:17.40
Now think about this with me.
00:29:17.43\00:29:18.84
In order to please
many times the powerful.
00:29:18.87\00:29:23.60
In order to please
those in high positions. Wow.
00:29:23.63\00:29:29.76
In order to please
those with the loudest voices.
00:29:29.79\00:29:33.39
In order my mom always said
00:29:33.42\00:29:35.12
the squeaking
wheel get's the oil.
00:29:35.15\00:29:36.96
Is somebody still with me?
00:29:36.99\00:29:38.99
Does somebody that
squeaking all of the time
00:29:39.02\00:29:41.40
and so you just kind of let him
00:29:41.43\00:29:43.28
have a certain amount
to get them to be quite.
00:29:43.31\00:29:46.63
No, I know none
of you would do that,
00:29:46.66\00:29:48.11
okay, but it happens
they keep coming back,
00:29:48.14\00:29:51.66
they keep just coming back
and pretty soon we'll say oh,
00:29:51.69\00:29:54.53
I know God's word says
this but you know that He will,
00:29:54.56\00:29:56.82
He will understand. Yes He will.
00:29:56.85\00:29:58.91
Some of us say well we
make exceptions to the rule
00:29:58.94\00:30:01.38
and without
even acknowledging it
00:30:01.41\00:30:03.84
because that's
where the big money is at.
00:30:03.87\00:30:06.09
Oh, we dare not rebuke
somebody with big money.
00:30:06.12\00:30:11.11
Maybe we might feel
00:30:11.14\00:30:12.29
that we're going
to loose many people.
00:30:12.32\00:30:16.94
That's church members
if we take this stand.
00:30:16.97\00:30:19.33
So we just lower
the standard, right,
00:30:19.36\00:30:22.09
and we then you know what we say
00:30:22.12\00:30:23.15
as we lower the standard
we call it love intolerance.
00:30:23.18\00:30:28.00
Really, do you love God?
00:30:28.03\00:30:30.18
You're not going
to lower standards.
00:30:30.21\00:30:31.24
You're going be
raising the standard.
00:30:31.27\00:30:32.74
Remember, my precious friends,
faithfulness in Scripture
00:30:32.77\00:30:37.48
to God's Scripture
His word is our strength.
00:30:37.51\00:30:40.94
Faithfulness, to God
is what? Is our strength.
00:30:40.97\00:30:45.03
Regardless, remember,
00:30:45.06\00:30:46.46
we mentioned
here ordination here.
00:30:46.49\00:30:47.80
You don't have to be
ordained other than by God.
00:30:47.83\00:30:51.26
God's going to use those
who have never been ordained
00:30:51.29\00:30:53.40
to finish the work.
00:30:53.43\00:30:54.51
He probably use more
of those and he will--
00:30:54.54\00:30:56.19
those who have been ordained.
00:30:56.22\00:30:59.16
Mercy, we think about
this. We don't have to.
00:30:59.19\00:31:02.32
We can work for God
because he calls us to work--
00:31:02.35\00:31:05.47
faithfulness, in God,
faithfulness in Scripture.
00:31:05.50\00:31:09.83
So when it comes
to women's ordination
00:31:09.86\00:31:14.94
should we not in
order to maintain unity,
00:31:14.97\00:31:22.41
should we not allow?
00:31:22.44\00:31:23.61
And I know this is little touchy
00:31:23.64\00:31:24.92
but oh, I have just--
00:31:24.95\00:31:25.98
well, I've got to talk about it.
00:31:26.01\00:31:29.58
Should we allow as it
were as a governing body?
00:31:29.61\00:31:35.05
Should we not allow
each division to decide
00:31:35.08\00:31:38.74
whether they will
ordained individually.
00:31:38.77\00:31:42.06
They call qualified individuals
00:31:42.09\00:31:44.62
listen, without
regard to gender.
00:31:44.65\00:31:49.50
Did somebody get that?
00:31:49.53\00:31:53.66
Now, you know, but we
want to maintain unity
00:31:53.69\00:31:56.07
and we want to get
everything all worked out.
00:31:56.10\00:31:57.53
So maybe we all too just
let every little division
00:31:57.56\00:32:00.06
every little group decide
which way they want to go.
00:32:00.09\00:32:03.46
It's an issue the
Bible or it's not.
00:32:03.49\00:32:05.79
It is truth or it's not.
00:32:05.82\00:32:07.32
If it's truth so big,
praise God it's wonderful.
00:32:07.35\00:32:11.89
But how can we come
to grips to say well
00:32:11.92\00:32:14.02
in order to please
and make this group happy.
00:32:14.05\00:32:15.97
If you want to do a go ahead
and if you don't over here.
00:32:16.00\00:32:18.16
I'm not trying
to be ugly about it.
00:32:18.19\00:32:19.79
I just want you to
think along with me.
00:32:19.82\00:32:21.22
Does that sound right?
00:32:21.25\00:32:22.67
Does that match
you up with Scripture?
00:32:22.70\00:32:23.79
I don't think so.
00:32:23.82\00:32:25.87
And in fact we
have to add those words
00:32:25.90\00:32:27.94
and they've been added
in without regard to gender.
00:32:27.97\00:32:31.05
Otherwise it
doesn't make any difference.
00:32:31.08\00:32:32.51
What God's word
says it does, it does.
00:32:32.54\00:32:35.64
And then I have to
say this what sense.
00:32:35.67\00:32:38.57
What sense does it
make as a worldwide,
00:32:38.60\00:32:43.61
as a worldwide organization.
00:32:43.64\00:32:46.28
You know, God said His last day
00:32:46.31\00:32:47.67
people they're gonna
be worldwide isn't it.
00:32:47.70\00:32:49.16
Praise God for that.
00:32:49.19\00:32:50.27
We need the organization
00:32:50.30\00:32:51.33
and we need the
working together,
00:32:51.36\00:32:52.53
we need the unity.
00:32:52.56\00:32:54.87
But it has to be based
upon principles of God's word.
00:32:54.90\00:32:59.12
So what sense does it make
as a worldwide organization
00:32:59.15\00:33:02.72
then that ministers--
as a minister ordination
00:33:02.75\00:33:07.15
can be
restricted to certain areas?
00:33:07.18\00:33:10.89
Did some of you get that?
00:33:10.92\00:33:13.22
Say some ministers are ordained
00:33:13.25\00:33:15.36
but then man says that
ordination is restricted
00:33:15.39\00:33:19.00
to certain area over here.
00:33:19.03\00:33:21.89
Did you get what I
talked about while ago?
00:33:21.92\00:33:23.64
Go all the what?
00:33:23.67\00:33:25.48
Oh, I heard somebody say
00:33:25.51\00:33:26.65
go all the world
and preach the gospel.
00:33:26.68\00:33:28.28
I'm starting to get excited now.
00:33:28.31\00:33:29.60
It's good.
00:33:29.63\00:33:30.80
As a worldwide organization
00:33:30.83\00:33:32.39
I'm just saying
does it makes sense
00:33:32.42\00:33:33.74
or trying to make people happy
00:33:33.77\00:33:35.12
or trying to keep
people in certain places?
00:33:35.15\00:33:39.26
And I understand
you got to be careful
00:33:39.29\00:33:42.80
because you got
lot of things going on.
00:33:42.83\00:33:45.28
Lot of different
people in the world
00:33:45.31\00:33:46.62
I hear from them trust me.
00:33:46.65\00:33:49.31
But think--
00:33:49.34\00:33:53.03
You think about how
can we be restricted?
00:33:53.06\00:33:57.16
And you say in order
to maintain organization
00:33:57.19\00:33:59.58
we have to be restricted.
00:33:59.61\00:34:00.64
And we can only go
here. We can go here.
00:34:00.67\00:34:02.49
We go to you know this
part of the line and over here.
00:34:02.52\00:34:04.87
You can't go no.
You're going to all the world.
00:34:04.90\00:34:10.28
You see we think about
does this not open the doors
00:34:10.31\00:34:15.05
when areas are
restricted or you ordain this
00:34:15.08\00:34:17.69
and you can only do
over here and you cannot.
00:34:17.72\00:34:19.36
Your ordination only
pertains to that, that, that.
00:34:19.39\00:34:21.50
Does it not open more
doors to more problems?
00:34:21.53\00:34:25.56
It doesn't settle any at all.
00:34:25.59\00:34:28.33
It just simply opens
issues that we need to approach.
00:34:28.36\00:34:33.49
We need to
settle these things once
00:34:33.52\00:34:35.24
and for all
regardless of what side.
00:34:35.27\00:34:36.87
We say, oh, we
want to be on God side.
00:34:36.90\00:34:39.88
Let's look at
several important facts
00:34:39.91\00:34:43.04
before drawing any conclusions.
00:34:43.07\00:34:45.66
Would you do that with me?
00:34:45.69\00:34:46.95
Let's look at certain facts
00:34:46.98\00:34:48.65
this is the way I
want to way it out
00:34:48.68\00:34:49.93
is the facts that we have.
00:34:49.96\00:34:52.39
So we've got to get our mind in.
00:34:52.42\00:34:54.57
So okay, now Lord, I
want to hear these things
00:34:54.60\00:34:56.75
and I want to see
whether they be so.
00:34:56.78\00:35:00.11
And if they are then
I want to follow that.
00:35:00.14\00:35:02.84
But you know some
of you are going to say
00:35:02.87\00:35:04.84
yeah, but I've
already maybe received that
00:35:04.87\00:35:07.16
or I have already been
appointed as a local woman
00:35:07.19\00:35:10.15
of this local
elder of this church.
00:35:10.18\00:35:13.54
If it's not scriptural then
you need not take that position,
00:35:13.57\00:35:17.12
it's such simple even though
you've already been appointed.
00:35:17.15\00:35:20.26
It's okay to say "oh
Lord I didn't know that
00:35:20.29\00:35:22.92
but now I understand
00:35:22.95\00:35:24.24
and so I want to
do the right thing."
00:35:24.27\00:35:26.93
Do you realize
what unity would exist
00:35:26.96\00:35:28.54
among God's last
day people if all of us
00:35:28.57\00:35:31.31
spiritual enough
that we could say
00:35:31.34\00:35:32.71
"oh, wow, we went this direction
00:35:32.74\00:35:34.70
but we should have
been going that way."
00:35:34.73\00:35:37.17
And then explain why.
00:35:37.20\00:35:39.08
Man what respect you could
have of that kind of leadership.
00:35:39.11\00:35:42.09
How you want to
fall in line and say,
00:35:42.12\00:35:43.50
"oh, praise God,
that's wonderful."
00:35:43.53\00:35:46.68
Issues need to be settled.
Let's look at several of them.
00:35:46.71\00:35:50.28
Number one, historically.
00:35:50.31\00:35:53.14
Number one,
historically as a people
00:35:53.17\00:35:56.49
we did not have women elders.
00:35:56.52\00:36:02.73
Not picking on-- we did not
it's either truth or it's not.
00:36:02.76\00:36:05.44
Historically speaking we
did not have women elders.
00:36:05.47\00:36:08.83
Many served in
several important roles
00:36:08.86\00:36:12.63
my wife mentioned
so many important roles
00:36:12.66\00:36:15.49
and they did it
without ordination.
00:36:15.52\00:36:19.17
We're going to explain
these in parts 2 and 3--
00:36:19.20\00:36:20.97
much more than we are today.
00:36:21.00\00:36:22.10
So we're just not
even scratching it.
00:36:22.13\00:36:24.05
I'm just trying to convince you
00:36:24.08\00:36:25.13
by the power of the
Holy Spirit right now
00:36:25.16\00:36:27.78
that we need to be
open to the Holy Spirit,
00:36:27.81\00:36:30.12
we need to hear the
spirit of the living God.
00:36:30.15\00:36:32.21
And say God, whatever you
say that's what I want to do.
00:36:32.24\00:36:35.10
I want to follow You.
00:36:35.13\00:36:36.16
That's what the
blessings are at.
00:36:36.19\00:36:38.45
That's where I can
receive these blessings.
00:36:38.48\00:36:42.27
So many wonderful
jobs and I say this--
00:36:42.30\00:36:45.44
I realize in the
church and the organization
00:36:45.47\00:36:47.98
and some of the job that's done,
00:36:48.01\00:36:49.55
women do a whole lot
better job than men do.
00:36:49.58\00:36:52.18
But I'm saying is it scriptural
00:36:52.21\00:36:53.95
here women's ordination
as elders and pastors.
00:36:53.98\00:36:56.43
Not talking about many of them
00:36:56.46\00:36:57.49
I'm talking about
two specific things
00:36:57.52\00:36:58.99
which really is
one, ordination of.
00:36:59.02\00:37:01.37
Now think about
historically speaking for years
00:37:04.77\00:37:08.61
some have been working
00:37:08.64\00:37:10.45
I want to say behind the scenes
00:37:10.48\00:37:11.96
and of course it
eventually comes out.
00:37:11.99\00:37:14.16
Let me go back and I said
00:37:14.19\00:37:15.47
at the beginning
across the 40 years
00:37:15.50\00:37:18.19
that would evidences
of things that took place.
00:37:18.22\00:37:20.08
But you know there
are years prior to that
00:37:20.11\00:37:21.69
there was lot of
talk that's going on.
00:37:21.72\00:37:23.84
Let's go back to
the year shall we, 1975.
00:37:23.87\00:37:27.46
It was voted on to allow--
00:37:27.49\00:37:29.10
listen-- women to be
ordained as local elders.
00:37:29.13\00:37:36.00
Local, so they put
their ordination into
00:37:36.03\00:37:40.89
maybe this the one
little local church here.
00:37:40.92\00:37:43.89
Why, if you ordained by
God or ordained by the church
00:37:43.92\00:37:48.43
but they said local elders.
00:37:48.46\00:37:51.69
And then that seem to quite
the stem tight for a little bit
00:37:51.72\00:37:55.70
but then in 1984 the
annual counsel reaffirmed
00:37:55.73\00:38:02.01
and opened it up
a little bit wider
00:38:02.04\00:38:04.22
than it had been before
00:38:04.25\00:38:06.10
with churches wishing to ordain.
00:38:06.13\00:38:10.42
So you see it was
it, it was just local
00:38:10.45\00:38:12.79
and then more
people more ladies.
00:38:12.82\00:38:18.59
Said oh, let's
open a little bit wider
00:38:18.62\00:38:20.75
so anyone wishing to--
00:38:20.78\00:38:23.28
now again is it
biblical or is not.
00:38:23.31\00:38:25.07
That's not that it, are we wish,
00:38:25.10\00:38:26.48
we want to hold
it, were you qualified
00:38:26.51\00:38:28.08
and we're schooled
it has nothing to do
00:38:28.11\00:38:29.80
we're educated, it has
nothing to do with that.
00:38:29.83\00:38:33.04
It has do whether
it's biblical or not.
00:38:33.07\00:38:36.17
And so as we, we see the
now we're it's leading us
00:38:36.20\00:38:39.71
into the discussion
of women's ordination.
00:38:39.74\00:38:43.13
Remember, first it was local
00:38:43.16\00:38:45.66
and then it opened up to
00:38:45.69\00:38:47.66
many by that it kind of wants to
00:38:47.69\00:38:50.07
and then from
that aspect it went.
00:38:50.10\00:38:51.55
So that's the
way it always works.
00:38:51.58\00:38:53.15
It's always progressing.
00:38:53.18\00:38:54.21
It starts out a little
bit and then pretty soon.
00:38:54.24\00:38:55.85
Now it's to the
point of ordaining elders,
00:38:55.88\00:38:59.77
women elders and women pastors.
00:38:59.80\00:39:01.95
And remember what I said
00:39:01.98\00:39:03.13
"slash" if no
difference in scripture
00:39:03.16\00:39:05.07
you can't find
different definition.
00:39:05.10\00:39:07.44
So I think that's very important
00:39:07.47\00:39:08.50
for us to realize.
00:39:08.53\00:39:10.30
Now why did I remember
why did I put it like this.
00:39:10.33\00:39:12.80
You know elders
and elder and pastor
00:39:12.83\00:39:15.38
because again what
scripture doesn't make
00:39:15.41\00:39:17.69
a difference between the two.
00:39:17.72\00:39:19.39
And now we jump up in
1994 at the annual counsel.
00:39:19.42\00:39:24.58
A request was made to
the General Conference
00:39:24.61\00:39:26.74
to let each division
decide whether or not to listen,
00:39:26.77\00:39:32.18
ordain qualified women
without regard to gender.
00:39:32.21\00:39:38.50
Now you'll say,
oh, well somebody go,
00:39:38.53\00:39:40.00
oh, that's wonderful it's
not but well think with me.
00:39:40.03\00:39:43.87
Now why has it
come to this point?
00:39:43.90\00:39:46.27
It's causing quite
amount of disunion.
00:39:46.30\00:39:50.63
Lot of people
there's lot of talk going on.
00:39:50.66\00:39:52.85
You may not be
around. But I'm telling you.
00:39:52.88\00:39:54.63
There is and because you've got
00:39:54.66\00:39:58.47
some that are happy
and some that are unhappy
00:39:58.50\00:40:00.49
we're trying to please everybody
00:40:00.52\00:40:02.25
rather than say
what does God's Word says
00:40:02.28\00:40:04.54
this is where we stand.
00:40:04.57\00:40:06.10
This is where
we're going to stand.
00:40:06.13\00:40:07.50
This is what God's Word says.
00:40:07.53\00:40:09.43
Why can't we do that
regardless of the outcome of--
00:40:09.46\00:40:11.58
I'm saying let's
stand on God's Word.
00:40:11.61\00:40:15.10
Remember it wasn't
settled that's why these steps
00:40:15.13\00:40:17.50
and now this came about
00:40:17.53\00:40:18.89
because we allowed
women to be ordained
00:40:18.92\00:40:21.21
what first as local elders
but listen but not as pastors.
00:40:21.24\00:40:26.38
So how can you
ordain the local elder
00:40:26.41\00:40:28.54
and then you can't you won't
ordained them as a local pastor
00:40:28.57\00:40:31.46
because they're one
in the same in Scripture
00:40:31.49\00:40:33.09
elders and pastor.
00:40:33.12\00:40:34.70
See, it's another problem there.
00:40:34.73\00:40:36.91
Because now you
have the women elders
00:40:36.94\00:40:39.61
and now they're saying what.
00:40:39.64\00:40:40.67
Well, there's no difference
so I should be a pastor.
00:40:40.70\00:40:43.16
I should be
ordained as a pastor.
00:40:43.19\00:40:46.82
See situation just
becomes so difficult
00:40:46.85\00:40:50.92
because now we must
either allow that means what?
00:40:50.95\00:40:58.05
Go forward just accept
what is already taken place
00:40:58.08\00:41:02.16
or I'm gonna use this word
00:41:02.19\00:41:03.56
that you don't want to
hear we have to recant.
00:41:03.59\00:41:08.77
And my it's been
an awful lot of years
00:41:08.80\00:41:10.46
and there's a lot of
things that have went on.
00:41:10.49\00:41:15.12
So either we're to the point now
00:41:15.15\00:41:16.79
that we have to allow it
00:41:16.82\00:41:18.74
but remember when you allow
what is already taken place
00:41:18.77\00:41:21.55
means that what, there
is going to be more growth
00:41:21.58\00:41:24.16
and that's where we're at today.
00:41:24.19\00:41:27.29
Because we haven't
setting precedence.
00:41:27.32\00:41:28.74
We haven't set this is the issue
00:41:28.77\00:41:30.43
this is the way
that the Bible teaches.
00:41:30.46\00:41:32.54
And what we're
going to have to what?
00:41:32.57\00:41:34.05
We're going to have to recant.
00:41:34.08\00:41:36.75
Now remember when you
recant what does that do?
00:41:36.78\00:41:39.02
Well, some people
say, well, it destroys.
00:41:39.05\00:41:42.19
They'll say what? It
destroys our credibility.
00:41:42.22\00:41:46.13
Lot of people in the
world and not only in the church
00:41:46.16\00:41:48.36
we never to admit them
maybe we've made a mistake
00:41:48.39\00:41:51.42
or maybe we went
the wrong direction.
00:41:51.45\00:41:52.91
And you know we'll say
00:41:52.94\00:41:53.97
well maybe our heart
was in the right place
00:41:54.00\00:41:55.84
we meant well but we
didn't line up with scripture
00:41:55.87\00:41:58.39
we didn't see it
then but now we see it.
00:41:58.42\00:42:00.82
So wouldn't it be better say,
well, I see that now right now.
00:42:00.85\00:42:03.76
Oh, my maybe we should recant.
00:42:03.79\00:42:09.54
I'm telling you this
my brothers and sisters
00:42:09.57\00:42:11.23
to recant on something
that maybe we have done.
00:42:11.26\00:42:14.13
And that's not Scriptural.
00:42:14.16\00:42:15.90
You're not going
to loose credibility.
00:42:15.93\00:42:18.51
You're going to gain it.
00:42:18.54\00:42:21.12
Because people are going
to see that as a people of God
00:42:21.15\00:42:23.68
that want to do the right thing
00:42:23.71\00:42:25.52
and they're going
to get behind that.
00:42:25.55\00:42:28.79
And I remind you
again any deviation
00:42:28.82\00:42:33.32
from the truth of
God will be disastrous.
00:42:33.35\00:42:38.86
It will be-- any what?
00:42:38.89\00:42:42.31
I can't say it enough
00:42:42.34\00:42:43.68
because I realize some
people are not grasping it.
00:42:43.71\00:42:46.27
Any deviation from the
truth is going to be disastrous.
00:42:46.30\00:42:50.41
It may not be that moment
00:42:50.44\00:42:52.60
as we see these things
been leading up for years.
00:42:52.63\00:42:56.27
And it has continue to
progress until it was causing
00:42:56.30\00:42:58.76
you know division
among God's people.
00:42:58.79\00:43:04.23
So if women can be
ordained as elders,
00:43:04.26\00:43:07.60
if they can then they
can be ordained as pastors.
00:43:10.60\00:43:14.22
That makes sense doesn't it?
00:43:14.25\00:43:15.37
If they can then
sure they can be.
00:43:15.40\00:43:17.65
If Scripture allows.
00:43:17.68\00:43:22.81
If it is unbiblical we must oh,
00:43:22.84\00:43:26.90
I beg we must
change our position.
00:43:26.93\00:43:29.54
We must line up
with the Word of God
00:43:29.57\00:43:33.04
regardless of the cost.
00:43:33.07\00:43:35.97
God's-- you know God
has a blueprint here for us
00:43:36.00\00:43:41.30
and that
blueprint must be followed
00:43:41.33\00:43:43.54
without any kind of compromise.
00:43:43.57\00:43:46.36
I feel, I think, they're good,
00:43:46.39\00:43:49.44
it's wonderful, it's a best.
00:43:49.47\00:43:51.78
What does God's Word say?
00:43:51.81\00:43:53.46
This is what caused so
much grief in this world
00:43:53.49\00:43:56.92
and causes among us today.
00:43:56.95\00:43:59.79
We have people who
think well, its okay.
00:43:59.82\00:44:02.92
What does God's
word say about it?
00:44:02.95\00:44:06.42
And if it's in God's word
00:44:06.45\00:44:07.78
and it is then
it should be clear.
00:44:07.81\00:44:09.52
He doesn't just
reveals He reveals to us.
00:44:09.55\00:44:13.05
If you want to
study deep enough,
00:44:13.08\00:44:14.62
if you can get rid of
your preconceived ideas of what
00:44:14.65\00:44:18.30
well it seems like
it ought to emotions
00:44:18.33\00:44:20.28
and feelings and that, that the.
00:44:20.31\00:44:22.04
No, what does God's word say?
00:44:22.07\00:44:25.18
If we're wrong then God help us
00:44:25.21\00:44:26.93
we need to change our position,
00:44:26.96\00:44:28.43
we need to line up
with the Word of God.
00:44:28.46\00:44:30.56
This is what I say.
Right, there is a blueprint.
00:44:30.59\00:44:32.62
Let's follow that blueprint
00:44:32.65\00:44:34.30
and know without
any type of compromise.
00:44:34.33\00:44:38.06
We cannot
compromise the Word of God.
00:44:38.09\00:44:42.08
Now I will say this
"I'm sure all of us agree.
00:44:42.11\00:44:45.43
I'm sure we all agree with that.
00:44:45.46\00:44:46.80
Oh, that's exactly right."
00:44:46.83\00:44:48.01
Do you know
what? I will say this.
00:44:48.04\00:44:50.24
Your heart will
soon be revealed.
00:44:50.27\00:44:53.84
You just said you just
thought "oh I do I want to know.
00:44:53.87\00:44:57.90
And if it's what God said
00:44:57.93\00:44:58.96
then you know what your
heart is going to be revealed
00:44:58.99\00:45:00.53
in little while as
we do these studies.
00:45:00.56\00:45:03.34
As we really dealt in
00:45:03.37\00:45:04.78
and really begin to
uncover some things.
00:45:04.81\00:45:07.34
But true unity, true
harmony in the church,
00:45:07.37\00:45:10.94
comes about because we
live in and we agree on truth.
00:45:10.97\00:45:17.44
Does that makes sense?
00:45:17.47\00:45:18.50
Unity comes did
you get the church
00:45:18.53\00:45:20.57
comes about because
we agree on and in truth.
00:45:20.60\00:45:24.80
As so long as I wonder
00:45:24.83\00:45:26.22
it's not unity
the enemy is present.
00:45:26.25\00:45:28.75
So how can we continue to
go on and on and on and on
00:45:28.78\00:45:31.20
and just well they
think the way they want,
00:45:31.23\00:45:32.83
this division
can do what they way,
00:45:32.86\00:45:34.03
they do what they want.
00:45:34.06\00:45:35.17
Why can't we come up
with the thus sayeth the Lord
00:45:35.20\00:45:37.41
and say this is
what the Bible says.
00:45:37.44\00:45:41.61
I don't want to be
too difficult for you
00:45:41.64\00:45:43.19
but I want to please think
00:45:43.22\00:45:45.85
we must unity real unity
man, sayeth the third time comes
00:45:45.88\00:45:50.45
because we
agree on and in truth.
00:45:50.48\00:45:54.79
And we're willing to let
our little selfish thoughts
00:45:54.82\00:45:56.58
and what we think are to happen
00:45:56.61\00:45:57.89
and because of the
issue of ordination of women
00:45:57.92\00:46:03.42
raises a lot of questions
and they need to be answered.
00:46:03.45\00:46:06.21
They should be answered.
00:46:06.24\00:46:07.27
But they have to be answered
according to the Word of God.
00:46:07.30\00:46:09.80
We guess we have some
time to go into few of those.
00:46:09.83\00:46:11.85
Let's just do but number
one of four, five, six, seven--
00:46:11.88\00:46:14.15
here let's go in according
to the time that we have.
00:46:14.18\00:46:17.22
This we know. I stand on this.
00:46:17.25\00:46:21.31
This we know.
00:46:21.34\00:46:23.90
There is no, record of any women
00:46:23.93\00:46:28.23
being ordained as
an elder or pastor
00:46:28.26\00:46:31.41
in the New Testament.
00:46:31.44\00:46:33.63
Somebody didn't get that.
00:46:33.66\00:46:36.68
There is no record of
any women being ordained
00:46:36.71\00:46:40.91
as elder or pastor
in the New Testament.
00:46:40.94\00:46:44.27
Second point, in
the Old Testament
00:46:44.30\00:46:48.29
women were never
ordained as priest.
00:46:48.32\00:46:52.98
See there is
reasons for all these.
00:46:53.01\00:46:54.53
Somebody would say "oh,
it's the time in which live.
00:46:54.56\00:46:56.58
And that's the way
they were educated."
00:46:56.61\00:46:58.87
I want you to say keep
your mind and heart open
00:46:58.90\00:47:01.28
there are reasons why.
00:47:01.31\00:47:04.66
Three, Jesus--
00:47:04.69\00:47:07.71
Jesus did not
appoint a single woman
00:47:07.74\00:47:12.56
to be an apostle, a disciple.
00:47:12.59\00:47:15.45
Disciple we have many
men and women, apostle.
00:47:15.48\00:47:18.08
Never one.
00:47:18.11\00:47:19.76
Even though they were
present and around Him
00:47:19.79\00:47:23.30
and played such an
important vital role
00:47:23.33\00:47:26.29
in getting the Gospel
preached to the world.
00:47:26.32\00:47:30.14
A vital role they played
but it's interesting here
00:47:30.17\00:47:33.01
Jesus did not
appoint a single women.
00:47:33.04\00:47:36.68
Men were in the
New Testament, right,
00:47:36.71\00:47:39.00
ordained as elders and
pastors but all of the sudden
00:47:39.03\00:47:41.37
now it's like the New
Testament doesn't mean anything.
00:47:41.40\00:47:45.38
Let's go just a
little bit deeper.
00:47:45.41\00:47:48.15
It deserves some thinking here.
00:47:48.18\00:47:51.43
You remember what a disciples
00:47:51.46\00:47:52.92
there was a time
coming where that came
00:47:52.95\00:47:54.75
when that was one
that needed to be replaced
00:47:54.78\00:47:56.65
do you remember that.
00:47:56.68\00:47:57.71
I sure you do. That
going into One Apostle.
00:47:57.74\00:48:00.28
Acts Chapter 1 talks about that.
00:48:00.31\00:48:02.86
And with when this
appointment came to
00:48:02.89\00:48:06.09
appointment of one who had left
00:48:06.12\00:48:09.64
a male was chosen.
00:48:09.67\00:48:14.29
There were women present
at that time at that meeting
00:48:14.32\00:48:17.66
in Acts Chapter 1
00:48:17.69\00:48:18.87
but a male was still chosen
to replace the one who is left.
00:48:18.90\00:48:25.53
These are worth thinking about.
00:48:25.56\00:48:26.62
There's a reason.
00:48:26.65\00:48:27.68
Remember, the
Bible there're examples
00:48:27.71\00:48:29.30
for us to follow.
00:48:29.33\00:48:31.31
Five, gets heavy duty,
00:48:31.34\00:48:33.34
oh we're get lot
more heavy duties
00:48:33.37\00:48:34.71
as we get into this but listen
00:48:34.74\00:48:36.82
Paul's letter interesting
I think about there's a lot.
00:48:36.85\00:48:41.86
People love Paul.
00:48:41.89\00:48:43.68
They love to talk about it
00:48:43.71\00:48:44.87
except when they don't
want to hear something.
00:48:44.90\00:48:47.23
Then they say
how confusing he is
00:48:47.26\00:48:48.84
and why didn't but
isn't just plain language
00:48:48.87\00:48:51.34
where we can understand it.
00:48:51.37\00:48:52.58
Just give us simple
English. You ever heard that.
00:48:52.61\00:48:56.24
Well, if we just said
it simply he'll know how.
00:48:56.27\00:48:57.63
You know, Paul
00:48:57.66\00:48:58.70
and I've heard all
kinds of excuses about this.
00:48:58.73\00:49:00.75
And I'll think I've probably
made some in times past.
00:49:00.78\00:49:03.12
But notice what Paul says it.
00:49:03.15\00:49:04.63
Now listen, I'm not
going to go into detail
00:49:04.66\00:49:06.71
we don't have time today.
00:49:06.74\00:49:07.77
But I will on this verse.
00:49:07.80\00:49:09.82
Now let me just read it to you.
00:49:09.85\00:49:11.44
1 Timothy 2:12, now
remember Paul writing to Timothy
00:49:11.47\00:49:16.31
and to Titus-- it
contained information-- listen,
00:49:16.34\00:49:20.99
it contained information
that only men could function
00:49:21.02\00:49:25.51
or hold the office
of an elder or pastor.
00:49:25.54\00:49:30.32
Only, now either
he was oh, be careful.
00:49:30.35\00:49:33.70
He is either out of his mind.
00:49:33.73\00:49:35.74
He was even not led by
the Holy Spirit or he was.
00:49:35.77\00:49:40.26
Information he gives
does not allow a women
00:49:40.29\00:49:42.85
to fulfill that office.
00:49:42.88\00:49:45.64
And you will see as we
study on the reasons why.
00:49:45.67\00:49:48.79
In fact, he said
it seems rather harsh.
00:49:48.82\00:49:53.90
Paul said this
in 1 Timothy 2:12.
00:49:53.93\00:49:56.21
He said, "But I
suffer not a woman to teach."
00:49:56.24\00:49:59.65
And then he goes on.
00:50:03.49\00:50:07.23
"Nor to allow usurp
authority over the man."
00:50:07.26\00:50:10.00
Assume that,
00:50:10.03\00:50:12.56
"Over the man,
but to be in silence."
00:50:12.59\00:50:16.51
What does that mean?
00:50:16.54\00:50:18.86
Usurp authority
to assume authority
00:50:18.89\00:50:22.05
over the man
but to be in silent.
00:50:22.08\00:50:24.04
You'll say hear
00:50:24.07\00:50:25.14
that's some thing
is wrong with this guy.
00:50:25.17\00:50:26.43
All the other time
you read these writings
00:50:26.46\00:50:27.77
oh, how wonderful he is.
00:50:27.80\00:50:28.83
You know man, they
did not communicated
00:50:28.86\00:50:30.45
with Christ Himself.
00:50:30.48\00:50:32.01
He was led by the Holy Ghost.
00:50:32.04\00:50:33.80
He was ordained by
the Holy Spirit first
00:50:33.83\00:50:36.06
but because Paul
would had a worldwide work
00:50:36.09\00:50:38.18
as it were in where he was at.
00:50:38.21\00:50:39.84
What happened?
00:50:39.87\00:50:41.44
He had an ordination of men too.
00:50:41.47\00:50:44.47
But all of the sudden
here wasn't to be bit silent
00:50:44.50\00:50:47.05
and then he gives you
couple of reasons over these
00:50:47.08\00:50:49.28
we will dissect as we go.
00:50:49.31\00:50:50.84
So please just
don't turn it off.
00:50:50.87\00:50:53.10
Now he either said I
suffer not a woman to teach,
00:50:53.13\00:50:55.49
or to you have
authority over the man
00:50:55.52\00:50:57.66
but being silence.
00:50:57.69\00:50:59.98
And then in
verse 13, same chapter.
00:51:00.01\00:51:02.57
He gives a reason why-- he says
00:51:02.60\00:51:03.72
"For Adam was first
formed, and then Eve."
00:51:03.75\00:51:07.68
And then verse 14 he
says "Adam was not deceived,
00:51:07.71\00:51:11.85
but the woman being deceived
was in the transgression."
00:51:11.88\00:51:16.09
So he gives two reasons
00:51:16.12\00:51:17.29
for why he is
making this statement.
00:51:17.32\00:51:19.22
He either is another
guidance of the Holy Spirit
00:51:19.25\00:51:21.05
or he is not.
00:51:21.08\00:51:22.49
Let's not try to make excuses
00:51:22.52\00:51:23.93
and try to say
well that's the way
00:51:23.96\00:51:25.00
it was in the day and...
00:51:25.03\00:51:27.05
A woman being
deceived was in transgression.
00:51:29.58\00:51:33.31
Do we really believe
today that Jesus Christ
00:51:33.34\00:51:36.80
is the one who organized
the New Testament Church?
00:51:36.83\00:51:39.61
We just read when we
start, do you remember,
00:51:39.64\00:51:41.94
from this rock I
will build my church.
00:51:41.97\00:51:43.52
The rock is
Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah.
00:51:43.55\00:51:47.43
And we realize as Jesus
build or organized this church
00:51:47.46\00:51:51.93
He chose as representatives,
He chose as leaders,
00:51:51.96\00:51:55.68
He chose leaders and
He gave them authority
00:51:55.71\00:51:58.49
to speak in His name.
00:51:58.52\00:51:59.88
Do you remember
reading those things?
00:51:59.91\00:52:01.16
Sure, Matthew
16:18-19-- Ephesians 4:11-13.
00:52:01.19\00:52:07.57
Jesus organized
the first church.
00:52:07.60\00:52:11.34
The New Testament
church interesting.
00:52:11.37\00:52:15.24
So as He organizes we look about
00:52:15.27\00:52:17.70
you know any then
deviation from this Gospel order
00:52:17.73\00:52:21.86
can and will cause dissension.
00:52:21.89\00:52:24.92
So wouldn't it be saved?
00:52:24.95\00:52:26.11
Somebody stay when
they wouldn't it saved
00:52:26.14\00:52:27.97
if we follow the way
that Christ set up the church.
00:52:28.00\00:52:31.95
Wouldn't it be saved
rather than making excuses and--
00:52:31.98\00:52:34.01
Acts of the
Apostles page 87 says this.
00:52:39.18\00:52:41.54
It brings out to me it's
real good food for thought
00:52:41.57\00:52:44.92
concerning the time of Pentecost
00:52:44.95\00:52:47.18
and the unity that existed.
00:52:47.21\00:52:50.13
Notice what it says.
00:52:50.16\00:52:51.37
It says, "Despite
the former prejudices
00:52:51.40\00:52:53.97
all were in
harmony with one another.
00:52:54.00\00:52:57.48
Satan knew that so
long as this union right
00:52:57.51\00:53:01.34
continued to exist,
00:53:01.37\00:53:03.38
he would be powerless to check
00:53:03.41\00:53:05.54
the progress of
the gospel truth."
00:53:05.57\00:53:07.95
See the enemy
knows this today too
00:53:07.98\00:53:09.87
as long as there is
unity among the believers
00:53:09.90\00:53:12.97
the enemy cannot
hold back the gospel.
00:53:13.00\00:53:17.96
He saw to take
advantage of I'm reading on
00:53:17.99\00:53:20.80
former habits of
thought in the hope
00:53:20.83\00:53:25.06
therefore he might
be able to introduce
00:53:25.09\00:53:27.48
notice in to the
church elements of disunion."
00:53:27.51\00:53:32.57
New teachings so
what did the enemy.
00:53:32.60\00:53:36.42
He is seen that
as we work together
00:53:36.45\00:53:37.99
and we have unity
that we can stick together
00:53:38.02\00:53:40.25
that he cannot
prohibit the Gospel
00:53:40.28\00:53:42.71
from going to
all over the world.
00:53:42.74\00:53:44.18
But so then he
begins to introduced.
00:53:44.21\00:53:46.69
You know remember
former habits and thoughts
00:53:46.72\00:53:50.02
of those who may be
belonged to another church
00:53:50.05\00:53:52.40
or another denomination
and he wants to bring those in
00:53:52.43\00:53:55.25
and all of the sudden
we are starting to hear
00:53:55.28\00:53:56.93
some new teachings.
00:53:56.96\00:53:58.38
Praise God for everybody
that He is bringing in.
00:54:01.38\00:54:04.79
Praise God for
all of those people
00:54:04.82\00:54:06.53
but listen there is a
word of caution quickly
00:54:06.56\00:54:08.24
before we have our prayer here.
00:54:08.27\00:54:10.18
Many people who come
in to this movement today
00:54:10.21\00:54:13.82
they bring in
with them some baggage
00:54:13.85\00:54:16.59
of their former
believes of their church.
00:54:16.62\00:54:19.14
The style, the
thought, the words, the phrases.
00:54:19.17\00:54:22.71
You know and eventually
things are said like this,
00:54:22.74\00:54:25.79
well, we used to do
this in our my old church.
00:54:25.82\00:54:31.43
Again does that
line up with God's word
00:54:31.46\00:54:34.01
if not let's leave it behind.
00:54:34.04\00:54:36.84
He's called you out of that.
00:54:36.87\00:54:39.38
Now if that in mind
we're gonna have to end
00:54:39.41\00:54:40.93
because our time is running out.
00:54:40.96\00:54:42.02
That's the just the first
part we're getting into it.
00:54:42.05\00:54:43.99
It get's deeper and
maybe more difficult for some
00:54:44.02\00:54:46.05
but hopefully it
will be more enlightening.
00:54:46.08\00:54:48.06
Now I want you to
pray with me right now
00:54:48.09\00:54:50.96
that our hearts and minds
will be open to receive that
00:54:50.99\00:54:52.90
which God has in mind.
00:54:52.93\00:54:54.95
So we can't just have
00:54:54.98\00:54:56.01
what we wanted
to be a certain way.
00:54:56.04\00:54:58.39
We look at the
New Testament church
00:54:58.42\00:55:00.06
and how Jesus set it up
and we want to follow that.
00:55:00.09\00:55:02.26
We get a more depth in
that but let's pray about it now
00:55:02.29\00:55:04.71
that our hearts and
minds will be opened to receive
00:55:04.74\00:55:06.80
that which we've heard.
00:55:06.83\00:55:08.14
Merciful Father in heaven,
00:55:08.17\00:55:09.20
we thank You for
Your precious word.
00:55:09.23\00:55:10.52
We thank You that
you set the example
00:55:10.55\00:55:12.90
and so we need to
follow in Your footsteps.
00:55:12.93\00:55:14.83
And as we love You
and we want to serve You
00:55:14.86\00:55:16.54
so we pray your Holy Spirit
00:55:16.57\00:55:17.76
now we'll continue to impress us
00:55:17.79\00:55:19.88
the need to follow your word
00:55:19.91\00:55:21.27
regardless of what
the majority may do.
00:55:21.30\00:55:23.88
We love You and we
want to follow You.
00:55:23.91\00:55:25.51
Help us now and we pray
that things we have heard
00:55:25.54\00:55:27.37
that we may be
decipher them by the Holy Spirit
00:55:27.40\00:55:29.64
in Jesus name we pray
and for His sake, amen.
00:55:29.67\00:55:33.43
Now praise the Lord.
00:55:33.46\00:55:34.49
We're always glad that
you spend sometime with us.
00:55:34.52\00:55:36.56
We enjoy your cards
00:55:36.59\00:55:37.62
and you letters
and your phone calls
00:55:37.65\00:55:39.00
and we get them and lot of books
00:55:39.03\00:55:40.22
that we send out.
00:55:40.25\00:55:41.30
And we're thrilled
to be able to do that.
00:55:41.33\00:55:42.83
We'll be able to thrill
to come into your house.
00:55:42.86\00:55:44.20
We're thrilled
that people are saying
00:55:44.23\00:55:45.26
we're watching these
programs and watching 3ABN
00:55:45.29\00:55:47.52
and we're
watching you all the time.
00:55:47.55\00:55:49.13
Well, we praise God for that.
00:55:49.16\00:55:50.74
We feel our responsibility to
00:55:50.77\00:55:52.56
you know to just
bring the truth out.
00:55:52.59\00:55:54.28
As the Bible teaches us.
00:55:54.31\00:55:55.82
And it's very
important that we do that
00:55:55.85\00:55:57.27
in this hour that we live.
00:55:57.30\00:55:58.66
We appreciate you we love you,
00:55:58.69\00:55:59.88
we appreciate those
again those cards and letters
00:55:59.91\00:56:01.84
and your
offerings that you send,
00:56:01.87\00:56:03.12
praise God for that.
00:56:03.15\00:56:04.18
Helps us to continue to get
this message into all the world
00:56:04.21\00:56:07.59
and continue to
help us, to do that.
00:56:07.62\00:56:08.97
Pray for us we'll
be praying for you.
00:56:09.00\00:56:10.29
We'll see you next time.
00:56:10.32\00:56:14.33
Hello and welcome back, friends.
00:56:14.36\00:56:16.43
Today's message was the
first of the three part series
00:56:16.46\00:56:19.54
that we have
entitled "Women's Ordination."
00:56:19.57\00:56:22.27
Pastor Kenny began
today to bring to us
00:56:22.30\00:56:25.37
what he's been studying
00:56:25.40\00:56:27.18
and to the Lord's
guidance on this subject.
00:56:27.21\00:56:29.79
The good news
there is more to come.
00:56:29.82\00:56:32.31
So if the question of
women's ordination specifically
00:56:32.34\00:56:36.42
to the office of
an elder or pastor
00:56:36.45\00:56:38.84
doesn't quite seem
clear in your mind just jet.
00:56:38.87\00:56:41.93
Please plan to tune in
00:56:41.96\00:56:43.48
for the next two
studies on this topic
00:56:43.51\00:56:46.01
or better yet call us today
00:56:46.04\00:56:47.94
and order this three part series
00:56:47.97\00:56:49.82
for your very own.
00:56:49.85\00:56:51.30
This series is
entitled "Women's Ordination"
00:56:51.33\00:56:54.37
and it's being
made available to you
00:56:54.40\00:56:56.36
for a love gift
of just $23 or more.
00:56:56.39\00:56:59.61
Having this
series on hand as a tool
00:56:59.64\00:57:01.88
that you may use to help others
00:57:01.91\00:57:03.77
as well as yourself
over and over again.
00:57:03.80\00:57:07.14
And always please
always remember that
00:57:07.17\00:57:09.57
every donation that you make
to Behold The Lamb ministries
00:57:09.60\00:57:13.33
enables us to continue to bring
these timely messages to you
00:57:13.36\00:57:18.05
and then many other
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00:57:18.08\00:57:20.95
All you to do is
contact us here at the ministry
00:57:20.98\00:57:24.63
by calling us in
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00:57:24.66\00:57:26.79
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00:57:26.82\00:57:31.87
That's central standard time
00:57:31.90\00:57:33.80
or write to us at
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00:57:33.83\00:57:36.76
PO Box 2030, Herrin, IL 62948.
00:57:36.79\00:57:42.18
You may also email us
00:57:42.21\00:57:44.23
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00:57:44.26\00:57:47.59
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00:57:47.62\00:57:50.44
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00:57:50.47\00:57:54.98
My precious
friends until next time
00:57:55.01\00:57:57.34
may our Lord continue
to bless you and yours.
00:57:57.37\00:58:01.71