I'd like to welcome
you to "Battles of Faith".
00:00:15.20\00:00:16.85
My name is David Shin and
I'm here with Steve Wohlberg,
00:00:16.88\00:00:19.20
who's the Speaker/Director
of "White Horse Media",
00:00:19.23\00:00:21.33
based and... in California.
00:00:21.36\00:00:23.19
He's the author of several
books and we've been focusing
00:00:23.22\00:00:25.75
through this series of
13 programs on this pointed
00:00:25.78\00:00:28.43
issue of the supernatural
from the biblical perspective.
00:00:28.46\00:00:32.09
We've entitled the series
"Magic, Ghosts and the Bible".
00:00:32.12\00:00:35.74
Welcome to our
program again here, Steve!
00:00:35.77\00:00:37.17
Hello, David!
00:00:37.20\00:00:38.17
It's been a
pleasure being with you.
00:00:38.18\00:00:39.15
A privilege.
00:00:39.16\00:00:40.13
Now, to start off here to
give a little bit of background
00:00:40.14\00:00:41.81
for the individuals
that have not been with us
00:00:41.84\00:00:43.58
up to this point,
I've just been fascinated
00:00:43.61\00:00:45.99
in my discussion with
you, about the pervasive nature
00:00:46.02\00:00:49.23
of the supernatural entities
in society, in the media
00:00:49.26\00:00:53.80
in all sorts of
books, in literature,
00:00:53.83\00:00:55.78
and maybe we can start by
going to talk a little about
00:00:55.81\00:00:58.48
why we're doing
this study here today.
00:00:58.51\00:01:00.59
Right. Well, as you mentioned,
we're doing this because
00:01:00.62\00:01:03.21
the influence of the
occult and the supernatural,
00:01:03.24\00:01:05.74
has become all
pervasive in our society.
00:01:05.77\00:01:07.80
We've talked about
in previous programs
00:01:07.83\00:01:09.51
about the explosive
growth of witchcraft and Wicca
00:01:09.54\00:01:13.10
among teenagers. High
school and college campuses
00:01:13.13\00:01:16.22
across the
country are supporting
00:01:16.25\00:01:18.45
pagan student associations,
where kids are going to school
00:01:18.48\00:01:22.22
and they're joining these groups
and they're learning about
00:01:22.25\00:01:24.84
witchcraft, they're
learning about covens,
00:01:24.87\00:01:26.26
they're learning
about paganism and magic.
00:01:26.29\00:01:28.74
I remember when I
was in high school,
00:01:28.77\00:01:30.51
North Hollywood High School,
which was quite a few years ago,
00:01:30.54\00:01:33.20
we talked about
drugs, we knew about gangs
00:01:33.23\00:01:36.97
and various things that
were going on in our campus,
00:01:37.00\00:01:39.05
but we never talked
about witchcraft or witches
00:01:39.08\00:01:41.43
or casting spells or mixing
potions or practicing magic.
00:01:41.46\00:01:44.52
That was totally
foreign to us, but not today.
00:01:44.55\00:01:47.18
If you go on to just
about any high school campus
00:01:47.21\00:01:49.92
and ask, just pick a student
and say: "Have you heard of"
00:01:49.95\00:01:53.62
"Wicca? Do you have any friends
that are practicing Wicca?"
00:01:53.65\00:01:56.19
You'll be surprised.
There are just lots and lots.
00:01:56.22\00:02:00.21
You'll see the
pentacle, the five pointed star
00:02:00.24\00:02:02.40
with the circle around it.
00:02:02.43\00:02:03.48
So, it's here, it's not
going away and what we've done
00:02:03.51\00:02:08.36
so far in this
series dealing with magic,
00:02:08.39\00:02:10.25
as we talked about
the Book of Exodus,
00:02:10.28\00:02:12.34
how in the time of
Moses, there was a battle
00:02:12.37\00:02:14.33
between God and the
magicians, the Pharaoh.
00:02:14.36\00:02:16.65
We've talked about
it in the Book of Acts,
00:02:16.68\00:02:18.36
as the Holy Spirit was
poured out upon the disciples
00:02:18.39\00:02:20.78
and the gospel was spreading
throughout the Roman world
00:02:20.81\00:02:23.99
that Peter ran into
Simon, the sorcerer and Paul
00:02:24.02\00:02:28.32
ran into Elymas, the sorcerer
and in Ephesus they burned
00:02:28.35\00:02:31.91
their magic books and so it
was big in the Book of Acts.
00:02:31.94\00:02:34.86
Now, we're going to go
in the Book of Revelation
00:02:34.89\00:02:36.73
and we're going to show
how it's not just described
00:02:36.76\00:02:40.87
as happening in our
world, but, David, it's part
00:02:40.90\00:02:43.42
of Bible prophecy and that's
going to be our focus today.
00:02:43.45\00:02:46.48
So, it's gone to the Book
of Exodus, we've seen Moses
00:02:46.51\00:02:49.85
and the magicians, we've
seen the first century church,
00:02:49.88\00:02:52.04
how the Holy Spirit was driving
all the way through this process
00:02:52.07\00:02:54.46
and we go to the
last book of the Bible,
00:02:54.49\00:02:56.21
the Book of the Apocalypse
and this deals with the end
00:02:56.24\00:02:59.12
of time, where I believe
we're living right now today
00:02:59.15\00:03:02.35
and we're seeing this
element of the supernatural
00:03:02.38\00:03:05.08
manifestations as well,
in the Book of Revelation.
00:03:05.11\00:03:07.58
That's exactly right. Let's
go to Revelation, chapter 17.
00:03:07.61\00:03:11.39
Revelation, chapter 17
describes John being taken
00:03:11.42\00:03:16.75
in a vision through
the Holy Spirit and he sees
00:03:16.78\00:03:19.86
a mysterious woman.
Revelation, 17:3 says:
00:03:19.89\00:03:23.08
[text on the screen]
00:03:23.11\00:03:32.17
Verse 4 describes
the dress of the woman.
00:03:32.20\00:03:34.26
It says that she has a
golden cup in her hand,
00:03:34.29\00:03:36.63
full of abominations,
which will come to a little bit.
00:03:36.66\00:03:39.64
And verse 5 says:
00:03:39.67\00:03:40.99
[text on the screen]
00:03:41.02\00:03:50.77
Many Christians
have read this prophecy,
00:03:50.80\00:03:53.67
many people have read
this and they wonder what is
00:03:53.70\00:03:56.77
Babylon, where is
Babylon and there is a lot
00:03:56.80\00:03:59.89
to the topic and as
we'll show in a minute,
00:03:59.92\00:04:03.00
occultism is definitely
in many ways, we can say,
00:04:03.03\00:04:07.74
it's an unseen influence,
that is very much apart
00:04:07.77\00:04:11.87
of what the Book of Revelation
refers to it's Babylon.
00:04:11.90\00:04:14.23
So this woman is
sitting on a beast that
00:04:14.26\00:04:18.27
has seven heads, ten
horns, she's decked out,
00:04:18.30\00:04:21.78
she has purple and
scarlet in her head,
00:04:21.81\00:04:24.17
now these, just...
the historical context
00:04:24.20\00:04:27.14
for our viewing audience here,
this is not a literal entity
00:04:27.17\00:04:30.83
because you can't go
down to your local zoo and see
00:04:30.86\00:04:32.88
a beast with seven heads
and ten horns, obviously.
00:04:32.91\00:04:34.92
No. That's correct.
This is obviously a symbol.
00:04:34.95\00:04:37.26
This woman is a
symbol and she is referred to
00:04:37.29\00:04:40.22
as a mystery woman and
she is called "Babylon".
00:04:40.25\00:04:43.94
Babylon is the name of
the woman in Revelation 17.
00:04:43.97\00:04:48.60
She's also
mentioned in chapter 18.
00:04:48.63\00:04:50.72
In many different places
of the Book of Revelation
00:04:50.75\00:04:53.47
Babylon is mentioned.
00:04:53.50\00:04:54.63
Now it's significant and this
is where I want to go with this.
00:04:54.66\00:04:57.46
that when you read the
Bible, there was a Babylon
00:04:57.49\00:05:00.88
in the Old Testament, that
really forms the rude system
00:05:00.91\00:05:04.64
of Babylon in the
Book of Revelation.
00:05:04.67\00:05:06.73
Almost all of Revelation
is rooted somewhere else
00:05:06.76\00:05:10.07
in the Bible.
00:05:10.10\00:05:11.07
The apocalyptic Babylon
is rooted in ancient Babylon
00:05:11.08\00:05:16.60
and if you go back to ancient
Babylon and read about her
00:05:16.63\00:05:19.69
about this city, this nation,
this country, this woman,
00:05:19.72\00:05:23.90
you'll find that she was
permeated with occultism.
00:05:23.93\00:05:28.21
Go to Daniel, chapter 2
and take a look at this.
00:05:28.24\00:05:31.47
Daniel, chapter 2,
which will come back to again
00:05:31.50\00:05:34.37
in another program,
when we deal with the dream
00:05:34.40\00:05:37.49
of king Nebuchadnezzar
and how the sorcerers,
00:05:37.52\00:05:40.54
and the
astrologers and the magicians,
00:05:40.57\00:05:43.15
they were clueless about the
interpretation of that dream.
00:05:43.18\00:05:47.62
In Daniel, chapter 2,
verse 2, it talks about...
00:05:47.65\00:05:52.30
Verse 1 talks about the
king of Babylon dreaming a dream
00:05:52.33\00:05:54.45
and then he wakes up and
he can't figure out his dream
00:05:54.48\00:05:56.14
- Nebuchadnezzar. -
Right, Nebuchadnezzar.
00:05:56.17\00:05:58.19
And then in verse 2 it says:
00:05:58.22\00:06:00.22
[text on the screen]
00:06:00.25\00:06:08.05
Now this is the king of Babylon
and within the king's inner
00:06:08.08\00:06:12.12
circle of advisers
are magicians, astrologers
00:06:12.15\00:06:15.51
and sorcerers. And when we
read in the Book of Revelation
00:06:15.54\00:06:18.21
that there is another
woman called "Babylon",
00:06:18.24\00:06:20.37
it doesn't make sense that
if ancient Babylon was full
00:06:20.40\00:06:24.07
of magic and astrology
and sorcery that the Babylon
00:06:24.10\00:06:27.45
in the book of
Revelation, modern Babylon,
00:06:27.48\00:06:29.92
mystery Babylon, that eventually
deceives the whole world
00:06:29.95\00:06:32.67
will also have occultism as
part of her deceptive snares.
00:06:32.70\00:06:38.38
It doesn't make
that perfect sense.
00:06:38.41\00:06:39.92
Sure.
00:06:39.95\00:06:40.92
That's the root system.
00:06:40.93\00:06:42.15
That's the root of
the Revelation's prophecy.
00:06:42.18\00:06:44.54
- In Daniel,
chapter 2. - That's right.
00:06:44.57\00:06:45.54
That's a part of it. There's
obviously much more than that.
00:06:45.55\00:06:48.05
I see. So, in the
mystical Babylon, as people say
00:06:48.08\00:06:52.12
in Revelation, there is
ties to literal Babylon,
00:06:52.15\00:06:55.24
and one of those
ties in Daniel, chapter 2
00:06:55.27\00:06:57.11
is that within the inner
sanctum of these individuals,
00:06:57.14\00:07:00.92
like the king of Babylon,
the first person that he went
00:07:00.95\00:07:02.95
to the council was the
magicians, the sorcerers.
00:07:02.98\00:07:05.52
That's right. It's just
like in Egypt, we read about it
00:07:05.55\00:07:06.91
in the book of Exodus.
00:07:06.94\00:07:07.91
Pharaoh's wise men included
magicians who counteracted
00:07:07.92\00:07:11.05
the work of Moses.
In the Book of Daniel,
00:07:11.08\00:07:13.52
Nebuchadnezzar's wise
men were the magicians.
00:07:13.55\00:07:16.48
And then we go to
the Book of Revelation.
00:07:16.51\00:07:18.58
Revelation warns
about a global Babylon
00:07:18.61\00:07:20.69
that is going to be
deceiving the world.
00:07:20.72\00:07:22.41
Now, here's another
passage. Go to Isaiah, 47:9.
00:07:22.44\00:07:27.14
Isaiah, 47:9.
00:07:28.73\00:07:31.44
This is talking about
the fall of ancient Babylon.
00:07:31.47\00:07:34.62
and what was going to
come upon this ancient city
00:07:34.65\00:07:37.72
because of her
sins. Verse 9 says:
00:07:37.75\00:07:40.40
[text on the screen]
00:07:40.43\00:07:47.46
And here's the reason.
00:07:47.49\00:07:48.91
[text on the screen]
00:07:48.94\00:07:56.69
So again, it says
that Babylon would be...
00:07:56.72\00:07:59.12
she would fall, she would
be eaten away from the inside,
00:07:59.15\00:08:02.10
because of her
sorcerers and her sorceries
00:08:02.13\00:08:04.97
and her enchantments. So
when we read in Revelation
00:08:05.00\00:08:08.19
about another woman
Babylon, it just makes sense.
00:08:08.22\00:08:11.74
- Same
characteristics. - That's right.
00:08:11.77\00:08:13.85
And a lot of people just
haven't made the connection.
00:08:13.88\00:08:17.01
But as we see the
growth of witchcraft,
00:08:17.04\00:08:20.10
the growth of the
occult, the growth of paganism,
00:08:20.13\00:08:22.05
the growth of people
that are getting into magic
00:08:22.08\00:08:24.91
today, we need to look at
what's happening in our society
00:08:24.94\00:08:28.81
through the eyes of Revelation
and see that this revival
00:08:28.84\00:08:32.15
of ancient occultism
is really part of prophecy
00:08:32.18\00:08:36.79
and it's warned about
in the Book of Revelation.
00:08:36.82\00:08:39.45
That's part of
what we're seeing.
00:08:39.48\00:08:41.02
I see. It says in Revelation
chapter 18, I noticed,
00:08:41.05\00:08:44.87
that it says that she's full of
this key word, "abominations".
00:08:44.90\00:08:48.90
Now, how's does the
Bible define abominations?
00:08:48.93\00:08:52.86
Good point.
Thank you for asking.
00:08:52.89\00:08:54.38
Alright, let's go back
again to the Old Testament
00:08:54.41\00:08:56.17
and let's look at
Deuteronomy, chapter 18.
00:08:56.20\00:08:57.77
Deuteronomy, 18.
Let me also mention that
00:08:57.80\00:09:01.54
if you do some
research, some homework
00:09:01.57\00:09:04.22
about modern occultism,
you can definitely trace
00:09:04.25\00:09:09.46
a lot of the roots,
a lot of the rituals,
00:09:09.49\00:09:12.27
a lot of the practices,
a lot of the activities
00:09:12.30\00:09:14.53
that are going
on, you can trace them
00:09:14.56\00:09:16.13
back to literal Babylon.
00:09:16.16\00:09:17.70
There is books that
have been written about this,
00:09:17.73\00:09:19.31
showing the connection
between Babylon and sorcery,
00:09:19.34\00:09:23.20
Babylon and magic and
again this is what prophecy
00:09:23.23\00:09:26.81
is predicting. Now, if
you go back to Deuteronomy, 18
00:09:26.84\00:09:31.70
we read in Revelation,
17 that this woman has
00:09:32.59\00:09:35.91
a golden cup and inside
that cup are abominations.
00:09:35.94\00:09:39.11
We also read in chapter
17, verse 5. It says that
00:09:39.14\00:09:42.95
upon her forehead
was the name written
00:09:42.98\00:09:44.77
"Mystery, Babylon the
great, the mother of harlots"
00:09:44.80\00:09:46.91
"and abominations of the earth".
00:09:46.94\00:09:48.78
That word, "abomination"
is used many times.
00:09:48.81\00:09:51.56
Now let's go back
to Deuteronomy, 18.
00:09:51.59\00:09:53.71
Let's look at that word
and let's define what God
00:09:53.74\00:09:56.70
says are
abominations in verse 9.
00:09:56.73\00:09:59.67
Deuteronomy 18:9.
00:09:59.70\00:10:01.25
[text on the screen]
00:10:01.28\00:10:02.82
And this was God's
warning to the people of Israel
00:10:02.85\00:10:04.75
right before they
got into the land,
00:10:04.78\00:10:06.66
into the promised land. He said:
00:10:06.69\00:10:08.91
[text on the screen]
00:10:08.94\00:10:14.73
That's the key
word, "abomination"
00:10:14.76\00:10:15.80
That's right. Here
it is and God said when
00:10:15.83\00:10:16.80
you get there don't
learn to do what they're doing.
00:10:16.81\00:10:20.08
Now, what were they
doing? Verse 10 says
00:10:20.11\00:10:22.25
[text on the screen]
00:10:22.28\00:10:27.33
That was a pagan practice
that was a terrible thing.
00:10:27.36\00:10:30.23
They would take their
kids and they would put them
00:10:30.26\00:10:33.66
through fire and if
they survived, they thought
00:10:33.69\00:10:36.66
this was a sign of the favor
of the gods and if they got
00:10:36.69\00:10:39.48
burned up, well, that
was an offering to the gods.
00:10:39.51\00:10:42.41
I can't imagine taking
my son, putting him in fire.
00:10:42.44\00:10:45.82
I would never do that.
But they did it and God said
00:10:45.85\00:10:48.34
"Don't do it!".
00:10:48.37\00:10:49.34
This is a terrible
thing, it's an abomination.
00:10:49.35\00:10:51.38
And then He goes on and
He lists also "or someone"
00:10:51.41\00:10:54.51
"who uses divination."
This is the practice of
00:10:54.54\00:10:57.69
trying to divine the
future and see the future.
00:10:57.72\00:11:00.08
A lot of people
are doing this today.
00:11:00.11\00:11:01.52
And then it says "or
an observer of times",
00:11:01.55\00:11:04.60
that's astrology as you're
walking through a Wal-Mart.
00:11:04.63\00:11:07.46
As you're going to the
cash register, a lot of times
00:11:07.49\00:11:10.69
you'll have horoscope
books right there, yahoo,
00:11:10.72\00:11:13.89
go on the Internet, I mean
it's just horoscope astrology,
00:11:13.92\00:11:19.06
people looking at the
stars, trying to figure out
00:11:19.09\00:11:20.82
their futures. That was
one of the things that God
00:11:20.85\00:11:23.10
said was an
abomination in Deuteronomy 18.
00:11:23.13\00:11:26.62
"An observer of time", it says,
"or an enchanter or a witch."
00:11:26.65\00:11:32.85
someone who
practices witchcraft.
00:11:32.88\00:11:34.68
Verse 11 says
00:11:34.71\00:11:36.24
[text on the screen]
00:11:36.27\00:11:38.99
We'll talk more about that.
Familiar spirits are spirits
00:11:39.02\00:11:41.84
that are connected to mediums,
spirits that many times look
00:11:41.87\00:11:45.56
familiar, look like someone
that's died, talk familiar,
00:11:45.59\00:11:48.68
act familiar, no things that
apparently only a dead person
00:11:48.71\00:11:52.24
can know, but
they're really not the dead.
00:11:52.27\00:11:54.76
They are familiar
spirits which really means
00:11:54.79\00:11:57.70
they are demons in disguise.
And then it says "or a wizard",
00:11:57.73\00:12:01.53
like Harry
Potter. Harry is a wizard.
00:12:01.56\00:12:04.62
It's a young teenage
wizard boy who goes to
00:12:04.65\00:12:08.13
"Hogwarts School of
Witchcraft and Wizardry".
00:12:08.16\00:12:10.06
We've got a whole program
we're going to be talking
00:12:10.09\00:12:11.06
about that, but here in
this passage, the Bible says
00:12:11.09\00:12:15.07
that being a wizard and a
witch, these things are things
00:12:15.10\00:12:18.35
that God does not want
his people to be involved in.
00:12:18.38\00:12:21.90
As you keep reading, it
says "or an necromancer",
00:12:21.93\00:12:25.22
which means someone
who talks to the dead,
00:12:25.25\00:12:27.06
Verse 12 says
00:12:27.09\00:12:28.40
[text on the screen]
00:12:28.43\00:12:38.94
Verse 13 says: "You shall be
perfect with the Lord your God."
00:12:38.97\00:12:42.96
And so, this is probably
the most comprehensive passage
00:12:42.99\00:12:46.94
anywhere in the Bible,
from Genesis to Revelation,
00:12:46.97\00:12:49.53
that lists what we
could call "occult practices",
00:12:49.56\00:12:52.51
that God says "Stay away
from them! Don't learn them!"
00:12:52.54\00:12:56.43
"When you get into the land",
when he told the Israelites
00:12:56.46\00:12:58.70
before they got
into the promised land,
00:12:58.73\00:12:59.70
He said "stay away from
them, because these things,"
00:12:59.71\00:13:02.41
"they're dangerous."
Now, God warns us about
00:13:02.44\00:13:05.76
these things, not because
He's mean or harsh or cruel
00:13:05.79\00:13:10.65
or just an inherently
intolerant being up in the sky,
00:13:10.68\00:13:16.73
it's because He sees
behind the scenes and He knows
00:13:16.76\00:13:19.56
that these things are dangerous.
00:13:19.59\00:13:21.68
They're dangerous,
there's no way around it,
00:13:21.71\00:13:23.98
they are gateways to
the supernatural world
00:13:24.01\00:13:27.40
and in that supernatural
world there are evil spirits,
00:13:27.43\00:13:30.27
there are evil angels,
there are demons who impersonate
00:13:30.30\00:13:33.85
the dead, who
impersonate gods and goddesses,
00:13:33.88\00:13:37.44
and who are out there,
trying to dupe and deceive
00:13:37.47\00:13:40.81
and destroy human
beings. And because God is
00:13:40.84\00:13:43.77
a heavenly lover,
because He cares about us,
00:13:43.80\00:13:46.25
just like I care for my
wife and I care for my son,
00:13:46.28\00:13:49.23
and we get married, David,
you'll have the same experience.
00:13:49.26\00:13:51.95
We are talking
about that at lunch.
00:13:51.98\00:13:54.06
- Sure. - One of these days...
00:13:54.09\00:13:55.06
- Nor willing. - That's right.
00:13:55.07\00:13:56.04
One of these days, your
day will come and when you
00:13:56.05\00:13:58.72
have a family, you're
going to love your family
00:13:58.75\00:14:01.54
and you're going to
want what's best for them.
00:14:01.57\00:14:03.37
And God loves his people,
He loves you, He loves me
00:14:03.40\00:14:06.72
and that's why He
tells us in this passage
00:14:06.75\00:14:08.63
"Stay away from these
things!" They are abominations.
00:14:08.66\00:14:12.58
If you look up
the word "abomination"
00:14:12.61\00:14:14.26
in a dictionary, a Bible
dictionary or a Webster's
00:14:14.29\00:14:17.75
dictionary, you'll
read things like these are
00:14:17.78\00:14:19.68
"things that are
detestable, that are abhorrent,"
00:14:19.71\00:14:22.09
"that are utterly
wicked" and that we should just
00:14:22.12\00:14:26.38
absolutely, 100%,
categorically, unquestionably,
00:14:26.41\00:14:30.12
stay away from. I
think it's very significant.
00:14:30.15\00:14:33.18
that this list tells us
what these abominations are.
00:14:33.21\00:14:37.35
And then, we you go to
Revelation, it tells us
00:14:37.38\00:14:40.11
that this woman,
Babylon, this mystery woman
00:14:40.14\00:14:42.37
has a cup full of abominations
and she's also called
00:14:42.40\00:14:46.23
"the mother of harlots,
the abominations of the earth".
00:14:46.26\00:14:49.92
That's also interesting
when it says "of the earth".
00:14:49.95\00:14:52.87
A lot of the pagan religions
today, they're earth-centered.
00:14:52.90\00:14:57.54
They try to connect with
the earth, they try to connect
00:14:57.57\00:15:01.16
with the trees and
the rocks and the moon,
00:15:01.19\00:15:03.36
they have a practice
called "drawing down the moon",
00:15:03.39\00:15:05.91
in witchcraft, where they
try to connect with the energies
00:15:05.94\00:15:08.40
of the moon. They are
earth-centered religions.
00:15:08.43\00:15:11.43
and that religion
goes all the way back into
00:15:11.46\00:15:14.32
ancient Bible days.
And God said "Don't do it,"
00:15:14.35\00:15:18.57
"because the rock
isn't your maker,"
00:15:18.60\00:15:21.53
"the tree didn't make
you." There is no inherent power
00:15:21.56\00:15:25.41
in the sun or the moon,
the power is in the maker
00:15:25.44\00:15:28.14
of heaven and earth.
00:15:28.17\00:15:29.14
And God is very distinct
from his creation in the Bible.
00:15:29.15\00:15:32.18
A lot of these religions,
they're earth-centered.
00:15:32.21\00:15:35.73
I was on a radio show
once and a woman called in
00:15:35.76\00:15:38.79
and she said "I'm a Wiccan
and you don't understand us."
00:15:38.82\00:15:41.07
She said "We don't believe
in the Devil, we don't worship
00:15:41.10\00:15:43.17
the Devil". And I
told her "I know that."
00:15:43.20\00:15:45.08
I've done enough of my
homework to know that witches
00:15:45.11\00:15:47.68
don't even believe in
Satan. They think that Satan
00:15:47.71\00:15:50.29
is just a Christian
concept. And then she said
00:15:50.32\00:15:52.38
"I'm just a tree-hugger."
That was her expression.
00:15:52.41\00:15:55.07
- "I'm just a tree-hugger."
- Living on the earth.
00:15:55.10\00:15:56.67
Right. I love the earth and
I think it's important for us
00:15:56.70\00:16:01.08
to respect the earth and to
take care of it, but we need
00:16:01.11\00:16:05.12
to realize that the
earth comes from God,
00:16:05.15\00:16:06.83
the earth is not
God. A friend of mine had
00:16:06.86\00:16:09.27
a poster in his house.
I saw one time and it had
00:16:09.30\00:16:12.19
a picture, a
beautiful picture with sunset.
00:16:12.22\00:16:13.88
And the word said "Here
are two fundamental facts"
00:16:13.91\00:16:17.38
"of human enlightenment.
Number 1, there is a God"
00:16:17.41\00:16:20.01
"Number 2, you are not
Him." You are not that God.
00:16:20.04\00:16:23.74
That's one of the errors
of the occult, the errors
00:16:23.77\00:16:28.28
of witchcraft, the
errors of paganism,
00:16:28.31\00:16:30.08
the errors of the
broadened new age movement
00:16:30.11\00:16:33.17
is that they
worship as Romans 1:27 says
00:16:33.20\00:16:36.91
"the creature
instead of the creator".
00:16:36.94\00:16:40.39
That's right and when
we tie in the prophecy,
00:16:40.42\00:16:42.82
again, Revelation 17
warns about Babylon and she's
00:16:42.85\00:16:48.18
full of abominations and
here are the abominations.
00:16:48.22\00:16:51.99
I'm sure there is other
abominations, but here are
00:16:52.02\00:16:55.43
a lot of them: "divination",
"witchcraft", "familiar spirits"
00:16:55.46\00:16:58.86
practicing, being a
wizard, this kind of things.
00:16:58.89\00:17:03.05
And these are the things that
are happening all around us.
00:17:03.08\00:17:06.14
I just find it fascinating
that in the Book of Revelation
00:17:06.17\00:17:09.35
which is dealing with
us right before the second
00:17:09.38\00:17:13.41
coming of Jesus, it seems
like this a warning to us,
00:17:13.44\00:17:15.93
telling us "listen,
there is going to a world wide"
00:17:15.96\00:17:18.63
"global infatuation with
sorcery, with witchcraft."
00:17:18.66\00:17:22.12
And my question is what
is the agenda behind this.
00:17:22.15\00:17:26.27
What is driving the spirits
to get this into society.
00:17:26.30\00:17:31.93
That's right. We have a
whole meeting on that coming up.
00:17:31.96\00:17:34.26
It's part of the series on
"Magic and Ghosts and the Bible"
00:17:34.29\00:17:37.86
Revelation 16:14 talks
about the spirits of devils,
00:17:37.89\00:17:41.87
that are working
behind the scenes,
00:17:41.90\00:17:44.51
that are moving the planet
toward the battle of Armageddon.
00:17:44.54\00:17:47.75
Now, let's look
up a few more verses.
00:17:47.78\00:17:49.12
Our time is going
fast. Revelation 18:23.
00:17:49.15\00:17:52.87
18:23 is also talking
about this woman, Babylon.
00:17:52.90\00:17:57.82
and it reveals that
she's a magical woman,
00:17:57.85\00:18:01.53
you might say she's a sorceress.
00:18:01.56\00:18:03.58
She's not just a
harlot, but she's a sorceress.
00:18:03.61\00:18:06.28
In Revelation 18:23, it
says "by your sorceries,"
00:18:06.31\00:18:11.53
"were all the nations deceived."
Right, through her sorceries,
00:18:11.56\00:18:16.57
through her magic,
through her occultism.
00:18:16.60\00:18:18.67
So again Revelation 17, we
have a woman named Babylon.
00:18:18.70\00:18:22.74
You go back to ancient
Babylon, Daniel 2, Isaiah 47:9,
00:18:22.77\00:18:26.92
it was full of occultism.
Revelation 17 talks about
00:18:26.95\00:18:30.40
a woman with a golden
cup full of abominations.
00:18:30.43\00:18:32.84
You go back to Deuteronomy
18, it lists these abominations,
00:18:32.87\00:18:36.41
These are occult abominations,
witchcraft and sorcery
00:18:36.44\00:18:39.48
and divination and astrology
and this kind of things.
00:18:39.51\00:18:43.29
You go back to
Revelation, it says that through
00:18:43.32\00:18:45.60
her sorceries, through her
magic she deceives all nations.
00:18:45.63\00:18:49.34
So there is an occult
connection. That's my point.
00:18:49.37\00:18:53.99
In Bible prophecy
warning that this is going to be
00:18:54.02\00:18:57.01
affecting how
many people? It says
00:18:57.04\00:18:59.21
"by your sorceries were
all the nations deceived".
00:18:59.24\00:19:02.91
Now, this
prophecy has many faces.
00:19:02.94\00:19:05.46
There's many
deception to Babylon.
00:19:05.49\00:19:07.51
Babylon is multifaceted
combination of false religion,
00:19:07.54\00:19:11.84
but occultism is definitely
part of that combination.
00:19:11.87\00:19:17.45
I can prove this easily. I
think I've already done it.
00:19:17.48\00:19:20.58
But let's take a look
at a couple more verses.
00:19:20.61\00:19:23.04
Let's go to Revelation
21 and look at verse 8.
00:19:23.07\00:19:26.39
This is a solemn
verse, especially in the light
00:19:26.42\00:19:31.02
of what's happening
around us, you know.
00:19:31.06\00:19:32.33
I just think about the
parents. I think about the kids.
00:19:32.36\00:19:34.43
I got an email recently
from a woman that said that
00:19:34.46\00:19:36.90
she's in northern California,
she said that "the area that"
00:19:36.93\00:19:40.45
"I live in, is full
of Wicca and paganism."
00:19:40.48\00:19:43.19
And she said the
influence of TV programs
00:19:43.22\00:19:44.98
dealing with the occult,
she said, children's programming
00:19:45.01\00:19:49.12
it's all around us and
it's been guiling our kids
00:19:49.15\00:19:51.90
and she said "someone
needs to sound the warning".
00:19:51.93\00:19:54.32
And that's what
we're trying to do,
00:19:54.35\00:19:56.22
is sound the
warning from the Bible.
00:19:56.25\00:19:58.08
Now, take a look at
this. Revelation 21:8.
00:19:58.11\00:20:01.50
This is talking about the
kinds of people that eventually
00:20:01.53\00:20:04.36
end up in the lake of
fire. The Scripture says
00:20:04.39\00:20:07.37
[text on the screen]
00:20:07.40\00:20:10.79
the sexually immoral and
then what's that next group?
00:20:10.82\00:20:14.11
- It is the sorcerers. -
And the sorcerers, right.
00:20:14.14\00:20:17.75
[text on the screen]
00:20:17.78\00:20:25.20
- That's pretty solemn. - It is.
00:20:25.24\00:20:26.38
- It is a very
solemn text. - Very solemn.
00:20:26.41\00:20:27.71
When I look at this
and I read this verse,
00:20:27.74\00:20:29.47
I read what it says about
the future and about the lake
00:20:29.50\00:20:32.27
of fire, I certain believe
there will be a real lake
00:20:32.30\00:20:35.03
of fire. That's
what the Bible says
00:20:35.06\00:20:36.28
and it says that sorcerers,
that's one of the categories
00:20:36.31\00:20:39.91
of real people that
end up in that fire.
00:20:39.94\00:20:42.82
And what's happening today
is sorcery is being made up
00:20:42.85\00:20:46.17
to be fun. It's being made
up to be cool, exciting, safe,
00:20:46.20\00:20:51.45
friendly, earth-centered
natural, wholesome,
00:20:51.48\00:20:55.37
you can practice white
magic, you can cast spells,
00:20:55.40\00:20:58.53
you can improve your
life, you can improve
00:20:58.56\00:21:00.82
your love life, your
finances, your relationships
00:21:00.85\00:21:03.77
There's a whole long list
of spells that are available
00:21:03.80\00:21:06.38
right there and these
things, according to my Bible,
00:21:06.41\00:21:09.78
are gateways to the demonic.
00:21:09.81\00:21:12.06
It's not the power of nature
that people are taping into.
00:21:12.09\00:21:15.73
That's what they think,
but that's an illusion, David,
00:21:15.76\00:21:18.80
it's an illusion, it's
really the powers of the enemy.
00:21:18.83\00:21:22.61
Revelation 16:14 again
says that these are the spirits
00:21:22.64\00:21:26.75
of devils that work
miracles. There is real power
00:21:26.78\00:21:29.40
in the
supernatural world, in occultism
00:21:29.43\00:21:32.44
and Revelation warns us that
those that practice these things
00:21:32.47\00:21:35.74
are heading
toward the lake of fire.
00:21:35.77\00:21:37.34
Because it's definitely
not presented this way
00:21:37.37\00:21:39.25
It's presented like you said
as something that is just...
00:21:39.28\00:21:41.70
they call it "white magic" and
it's something that is not dark
00:21:41.73\00:21:45.18
and it's friendly,
it's something that since
00:21:45.21\00:21:48.02
your people get involved with,
but the Bible is very clear
00:21:48.05\00:21:51.54
it says these individuals
will experience what we call
00:21:51.57\00:21:54.21
"the second death" and
that's is a solemn warning
00:21:54.24\00:21:56.63
in the Book of Revelation.
00:21:56.66\00:21:57.82
Here's another
statement from an article that
00:21:57.85\00:21:59.97
appeared in "World Magazine"
called "Season of the witch".
00:22:00.00\00:22:02.46
It said "Followers of
Wicca are working hard to erase"
00:22:02.49\00:22:05.19
"negative stereotypes
of witches and are finding"
00:22:05.22\00:22:08.21
"extraordinary success."
I'm not saying these people
00:22:08.24\00:22:11.09
are evil people. Many of
them are just searching for
00:22:11.12\00:22:14.62
spiritual power, for guidance
and it's sad, but sometimes
00:22:14.65\00:22:17.03
they haven't found it
in the Christian church,
00:22:17.06\00:22:18.74
so they're going off
to alternative religions,
00:22:18.77\00:22:21.09
looking for something
that they haven't found
00:22:21.12\00:22:23.35
within Christianity. And
that's an indictment against
00:22:23.38\00:22:28.00
the church. The church
needs the power of God,
00:22:28.03\00:22:29.82
the church needs the
Holy Spirit, the church needs
00:22:29.85\00:22:31.77
something to give to
these people who are searching
00:22:31.80\00:22:34.06
for power. And what we
have to give them is Jesus,
00:22:34.09\00:22:37.57
and Bible truth and something
solid and something safe,
00:22:37.60\00:22:40.81
something that won't hurt
them and that won't suck them
00:22:40.84\00:22:43.46
into the darkness.
Here's one more passage, David,
00:22:43.49\00:22:46.74
in Revelation 22, verses
14 and 15 talk about those
00:22:46.77\00:22:52.05
that go in the city and those
that are left out of the city.
00:22:52.08\00:22:55.57
The city is New Jerusalem.
00:22:55.60\00:22:57.38
The city is New
Jerusalem, right.
00:22:57.41\00:22:58.40
Revelation describes a
glorious beautiful city,
00:22:58.43\00:23:01.02
the New Jerusalem, which is
the home of all God's people.
00:23:01.05\00:23:04.09
who overcome through
the blood of the lamb
00:23:04.12\00:23:06.37
and who make it
into the kingdom.
00:23:06.40\00:23:08.20
And verse 15 says
outside the city are dogs,
00:23:08.23\00:23:12.66
which doesn't refer to your
pet, it's talking about the kind
00:23:12.69\00:23:15.59
of people, the kind of
person that has no interest
00:23:15.62\00:23:17.89
in Bible truth. Dogs and
then it says "sorcerers".
00:23:17.92\00:23:21.56
"and whoremongers and murderers
and idolaters and whoever"
00:23:21.59\00:23:24.64
"loves and makes a lie." So
again just like in Revelation
00:23:24.67\00:23:28.13
22:8, sorcerers are
listed as a category of people
00:23:28.16\00:23:32.74
in the Bible prophecy that
end up in the lake of fire.
00:23:32.77\00:23:36.00
And I'm just
thoroughly convinced from all of
00:23:36.03\00:23:38.41
my research in God's word
and history and in various books
00:23:38.44\00:23:41.59
that we are seeing a
revival of Babylonian occultism
00:23:41.62\00:23:46.06
all around us, a
Renaissance a revival
00:23:46.09\00:23:48.46
and it is extremely dangerous.
It looks friendly, it looks fun,
00:23:48.49\00:23:53.16
it looks cool,
magic looks exciting,
00:23:53.19\00:23:55.38
witches have a new face
and they're representing
00:23:55.41\00:23:59.29
their religion as something
positive and they believe that
00:23:59.32\00:24:02.61
and they're sincere about that.
00:24:02.64\00:24:03.61
The problem isn't their
sincerity. The problem is
00:24:03.64\00:24:07.21
the powers of evil
working behind the scenes
00:24:07.24\00:24:10.45
to deceive them and to
ultimately bring them into
00:24:10.48\00:24:14.92
the lake of fire. That is
the solemn reality of Bible
00:24:14.95\00:24:18.29
prophecy and what
we're seeing around us.
00:24:18.32\00:24:20.35
So, as a recap, we've
seen that mystic Babylon
00:24:20.38\00:24:23.54
has ties to ancient
Babylon and one of those ties
00:24:23.57\00:24:26.92
is the sorcery and the Bible
explicitly says in the Book
00:24:26.95\00:24:29.58
of Deuteronomy that it
is full of abominations,
00:24:29.61\00:24:32.45
which one of it is witchcraft
and sorcery and there is
00:24:32.48\00:24:35.65
a solemn warning in the
Book of Revelation saying that
00:24:35.68\00:24:37.77
to anyone that practices
sorcery, it is not an innocuous
00:24:37.80\00:24:41.30
activity, it is something
God takes very seriously.
00:24:41.33\00:24:44.36
Now, I just have a question.
What about for those individuals
00:24:44.39\00:24:46.81
that perhaps have dabbled
in the occult, in witchcraft,
00:24:46.84\00:24:52.16
what kind of hope does
the Bible present for them?
00:24:52.19\00:24:55.05
Are they unequivocally,
universally lost because
00:24:55.08\00:24:57.72
they've been
engaged in these activities?
00:24:57.75\00:24:59.16
No. Perfect question.
Not only does Revelation 22
00:24:59.19\00:25:02.91
list these groups that are
going into the lake of fire,
00:25:02.94\00:25:05.52
but it finishes with an
appeal in chapter 22, verse 17,
00:25:05.55\00:25:09.18
right after
that. The Bible says:
00:25:09.21\00:25:11.73
"And the Spirit and
the bride say, Come."
00:25:11.76\00:25:13.59
"And let him who hears
these things, let him come"
00:25:13.62\00:25:17.34
"And let him who is
at thirst, let him come."
00:25:17.37\00:25:19.72
"And whosoever will, let him
take the water of life freely."
00:25:19.75\00:25:24.00
The water of life is
God's water, it's the water of
00:25:24.03\00:25:26.42
the Holy Spirit, it's the
water of truth and ultimately
00:25:26.45\00:25:29.18
it's the water of the good
news of the grace and the love
00:25:29.21\00:25:32.19
and the mercy and the
power of Jesus Christ.
00:25:32.22\00:25:34.47
At the very end of the
Bible, the last verse, verse 21
00:25:34.50\00:25:38.63
says "the grace of our Lord
Jesus Christ be with you all."
00:25:38.66\00:25:43.24
"Amen." And so God, he points
out the dangers of the woman,
00:25:43.27\00:25:48.35
the false woman and her
abominations and her sorceries
00:25:48.38\00:25:51.79
and her deceptions and
there is a lot of deceptions,
00:25:51.82\00:25:54.16
we're just dealing with a
sliver, but it's a big sliver
00:25:54.19\00:25:57.39
and then, as an alternative,
God says "Come to me!"
00:25:57.42\00:26:00.58
The Holy Spirits
says "Come to me!"
00:26:00.61\00:26:02.39
Jesus says "whoever
will", "If you're willing,"
00:26:02.42\00:26:04.55
"I want to offer you
the water of life freely"
00:26:04.58\00:26:08.44
"I want to offer you the
grace of God, the forgiveness"
00:26:08.47\00:26:11.02
"of God, the love of
God, the mercy of God."
00:26:11.05\00:26:14.15
And all of that really
is centered in one place,
00:26:14.18\00:26:17.36
which is in the cross,
the cross of Jesus Christ,
00:26:17.39\00:26:20.11
who stretched down his
hands, was lifted up on a cross,
00:26:20.14\00:26:23.81
was nailed to a tree,
because of incredible infinite
00:26:23.84\00:26:28.69
incomprehensible
love for you and me.
00:26:28.72\00:26:31.43
And all the witchcraft
and sorcery and abominations
00:26:31.46\00:26:34.36
of this world, they
all went into his head,
00:26:34.39\00:26:36.99
they went into his
heart, they went into his soul,
00:26:37.02\00:26:39.61
and it was willing
to pay the full price.
00:26:39.64\00:26:41.93
So, if you're into these things,
God wants to get you out.
00:26:41.96\00:26:44.96
They're abominations.
If you're a parent,
00:26:44.99\00:26:46.83
I want to
encourage you and warn you:
00:26:46.86\00:26:49.02
Parents, watch your kids!
Don't let them get sucked in
00:26:49.05\00:26:52.82
to these things! Be
careful of what's in Hollywood!
00:26:52.85\00:26:54.88
Be careful of these
glowing representations
00:26:54.91\00:26:57.93
of a friendly religion that
they can have spiritual power
00:26:57.96\00:27:02.58
by practicing magic. It's
a delusion, it's a deception.
00:27:02.61\00:27:06.04
It's part of Babylon.
It's predicted in Revelation.
00:27:06.07\00:27:08.70
God says "Don't do
it!. It's an abomination."
00:27:08.73\00:27:11.08
"Come out of it!
Don't go down with it!"
00:27:11.11\00:27:13.22
"Don't end up in
the lake of fire!"
00:27:13.25\00:27:14.75
End up in the New Jerusalem,
which is a much better place
00:27:14.78\00:27:18.51
than the lake of
fire. It's a perfect place
00:27:18.54\00:27:20.79
and God wants you to be there.
And He wants me to be there.
00:27:20.82\00:27:23.37
Just as 2+2=4 and I'm not
intolerant for saying that
00:27:23.40\00:27:28.39
there is only one
answer, 2+2=4. That's it.
00:27:28.42\00:27:31.92
So what we've told you
is right from the Bible.
00:27:31.95\00:27:34.54
It's the truth and may
God help us to understand it
00:27:34.57\00:27:37.64
and to respond to its message
and to the love of Jesus Christ.
00:27:37.67\00:27:42.76
Well, thank you very much
for sharing with us, Steve.
00:27:42.79\00:27:45.25
We've looked at the
Book of Revelation today,
00:27:45.28\00:27:47.86
how mystic Babylon has
ties to ancient Babylon,
00:27:47.89\00:27:50.80
and how in the last
days there is going to be
00:27:50.83\00:27:52.89
a deception specifically
dealing with the supernatural.
00:27:52.92\00:27:56.52
I'd like to invite you
to not want to miss one
00:27:56.55\00:27:59.39
in this series of 13
that will be delving into.
00:27:59.42\00:28:02.12
Steve will be sharing
from the Bible and unmasking
00:28:02.15\00:28:04.63
some of these
deceptions that we...
00:28:04.66\00:28:07.29
I'd like to thank
you for joining us today
00:28:07.32\00:28:08.88
and join us next
time for another edition.
00:28:08.91\00:28:12.78