We would like to
welcome you to BATTLES OF FAITH
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My name is David Shin and
I'm here with Steve Wohlberg,
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who is the Speaker, Director
of Whitehorse Ministry, and
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he is the author of several
books and has done extensive
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research on this issue
of the supernatural from a
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biblical perspective, and
I would like to thank you for
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joining us on this program.
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It has been a pleasure to
meet and talk with you prior
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to this, so tell us a
little bit about yourself...
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I see on your shirt there
you have Whitehorse Media,
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what is that all about?
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That is the ministry I
am involved in right now in
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Fresno California and we
are a television ministry.
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We produce programs for
3ABN and other networks.
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I continue to write
books, I give seminars, I am a
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husband and a father.
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I have a little boy
named Seth, who calls me daddy.
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I love hearing that
and am happy to be here on
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Battles of Faith, to
discuss the supernatural
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and the Wiccan movement.
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The occult as we have
chosen to subtitle this series,
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MAGIC, GHOSTS and the BIBLE.
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So we have a lot to do
and a lot of very fascinating
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controversial things to discuss.
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Magic is in the Bible, so
tell us a little bit about
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this as we are discussing,
evidently, 13 programs that
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we will be delving into.
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Now why the 13,
why the emphasis?
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Is this something that
obviously you have a passion for
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and is this relevant
for viewing audience?
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Anybody that has any
knowledge of what is happening
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around them in this world
is aware of the incredible
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popularity and growth of
witchcraft and sorcery in the
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the occult and it is getting
about as big as it can get.
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Here's an article in a religion
linked publication, which
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was put out for reporters, and
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it is talking about
trends in our society.
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It says here that "throughout
the country Wiccans are
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organizing congregations
and youth groups. They are
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training clergyman and
pursuing charity work. They are
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sharing pagan parenting
tips and fighting for their
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civil rights. " And this
was just the tip of the iceberg,
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David, I have a whole list
of articles I have read and
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books that I have
done research into.
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Here's another
article 'The Witch Next-Door"
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"the pagan spiritual path
is enjoying fast popularity and
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widespread acceptance,
even mentioned on a Scooby Doo
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video. Wiccan in fact is
the fastest growing religion
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movement in America. "
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Here's a story from National
Public Radio NPR Barbara
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Hagerdy did a program
called Teens and Wicca.
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Here's another one called
The Season of the Witch that
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mentions "that Wicca has
grown in numbers, in influence,
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and entertainment value
and beautiful witches seem to
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be everywhere. They
are hip, they are slick
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and they have power. "
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And we will discuss that
issue of power which is really
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the appeal of
Wiccan movement, but
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it's in entertainment,
it's in Hollywood movies, kids
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cartoons and programs,
and their countless websites
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on the Internet.
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I can tell you many stories
of people that I have met,
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and people that I know who
have come to me and told me
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that their son or daughter,
or even their spouse are
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dabbling into witchcraft,
checking out the occult, and it
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has become a major force,
a phenomenon in our society
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which we are here to
discuss, and as we get
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further into the series
we'll deal with such issues as
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Harry Potter, we will talk
about the Potter media series
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and talk about Hollywood
programs that talk about ghosts,
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spiritualism, and
talking to the dead.
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Whether or not that's
possible and what does the Bible
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say - you know this whole
program is Battles of Faith
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and we are in a battle, in
a conflict between the forces
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of good and evil.
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We are going to go to the
good book and see what the
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Bible has to say about
the struggle we are in dealing
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with supernatural forces.
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Now you mentioned that
this phenomenon is no longer on
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the periphery of
society, it is going mainstream.
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Now there may be individuals
in our viewing audience that
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perhaps have dabbled
in Wicca or witchcraft.
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Now how do we want to frame
this as we go through these
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series of 13? What is
going to be our approach?
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Evidently were using the
Bible but what would you say to
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someone that innocuously, these
are sincere individuals that
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have perhaps dabbled a
little bit into these realms
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of supernatural that
you have spoken about?
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First, I would say if you
are a conservative Christian,
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we are going to share lot
of information that will be
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very enlightening to you, and
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if you are a witch or a
pagan please don't tune us out,
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we have a lot to say and we
will do this as respectfully
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as we possibly can.
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I recognize that people
who are in the pagan spiritual
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path, the Wiccan movement,
they are people just like me,
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just like you, and many
are searching, sincerely
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searching for spiritual power.
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We all need spiritual power
in our lives, but as we are
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going to find out, there
are actually 2 powers out there.
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There is a good power and
there is a bad power, a very
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sinister power, a very
subtle and deceptive power that
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many times people don't
know what they are dealing with;
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they don't know what is
the nature, or the identity of
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that power, and so we are
going to be discussing all
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these things and do it
as respectfully as possible.
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We are not witch bashers,
we are not out there saying
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stone the witches and kill
them and put them on a stake,
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or take rocks and
throw them onto their heads.
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I recognize that Wicca and
witchcraft are a recognized
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religion in this country
and people have civil rights.
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It is federally recognized
and witchcraft is practiced
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in the military, it is
practiced in high school and
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college campuses
across the country.
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There more people than we
realize that our getting into
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this movement and
looking at and so we are
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going to look at it too.
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We are going to address it
as honestly and objectively
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as possible, and we
will point out the dangers,
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and we will also
point them to a better way,
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to a person who loves each
of us, who loves me, who loves
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you, and who has spiritual
power, more power then you
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can imagine that can
help you in your life.
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Also the power of love, David,
that is the most important
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thing of all is
the power of love, and
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it is a love we all need
and that love is available
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for all of us and we are
going to get into all of that.
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Now before we go into
our Bible passage, I have one
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other question
I want to ask you.
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Now you say that behind
this phenomenon of the occult,
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behind Wicca and so forth,
there are some other forces
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that are behind this, and
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individuals that do not
recognize we are in a battle.
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That there are currents
that are actually driving this
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thing and I don't know if
you want to mention a little
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more about the
currents behind this phenomenon
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that we are addressing?
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There is definitely a
current in our society, we have
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discuss this before, it
reminds me of an article I
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recently read in
Fresno Bee, the title here is,
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"Cruise Captain
Blames Currents. "
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It talks about a big cruise
ship, you're familiar with
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these gigantic ships and
sometimes they carry thousands
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of people, and this
particular one went down.
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The actual cruise ship
sank under the water and 1500
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people were approximately
rescued before it went down.
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Two people are missing
and nobody really knows
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what happened to them, and
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the Captain blames the
currents, strong currents that
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moved the boat into
the volcanic reefs, and
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as we will discuss and
see from the Bible, there are
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spiritual currents
underneath what I see as the
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popularity of witchcraft, occult
and spiritualism that are very
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dangerous and can sink our ship.
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We don't want that to happen
to us, we don't want it to
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happen to you, and we
are concerned about that, and
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that is why we are
doing this program,
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MAGIC, GHOSTS, and the BIBLE.
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Fascinating, fascinating,
so let's go to the Bible.
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We are going to be
delving into this topic from a
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biblical perspective
about the topic of Magic,
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Ghosts, and the Bible.
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So what is going
to be our approach?
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What is our first passage here.
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Let's take a look
at 1 Corinthians 10:11.
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We have chosen this
is our opening text.
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This is just the beginning
of the series and we have a
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lot to discuss and so this
was a good verse to start out,
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then we are going to go to
the book of Exodus and take
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a look at the
battle concerning Magic.
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1 Corinthians 10:11, Paul
is talking about the history
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of Israel, he talks about
Moses, and the things that the
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Israelites went through as
they came out of Egypt in this
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chapter and in verse 11 it says,
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and so it is talking
about the Old Testament history,
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especially the history
of Israel is an example
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for us and was
written for those of us that
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live down at the end.
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We are going to see from
the book of Exodus that there
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was a struggle, a battle
going on between God and Moses
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and Aaron against the
Pharaoh and his magicians.
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The struggle over Magic
was a major part of the history
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of Israel as they
came out of Egypt.
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So that is where we are
going to go and it illustrates
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that these are lessons
for those of us who live
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at the end of time.
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The sands of time are fast
going down on the hour glass.
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We are in the final days
and I am totally convinced
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that the Lord is coming
soon and that these are the
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momentous days before
the apocalyptic end, and
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we will find lessons for
us in the book of Exodus.
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So this passage, and just
to recap what you just said,
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the history of Israel is
not just merely historical data,
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just for our fancy, but it
actually has relevance for us
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living in the last days and
these are lessons that we are
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to go back in
history and apply to us, and
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they have some sort of
practical applications.
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That's exactly right they
were written for our admonition
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upon whom the ends
of the world are come.
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That's what the text said.
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So let's go back to
Exodus and find out what some of
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these lessons are.
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If we look at Exodus
7, this is describing the
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deliverance of the
people of God out of Egypt.
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They have been in Egypt
for 400 years, and for me as a
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Jew, especially this has a
lot of meaning because this
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was the beginning of the
birth of the Jewish nation,
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as a nation, when they
came out of Egypt in Exodus 7:8.
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The Bible says.
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This is really interesting
David, this is the conflict
00:11:05.28\00:11:09.12
before Israel was delivered.
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God of course was the
Deliverer, Moses and Aaron
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represented the Deliverer,
and Pharaoh was the enslaver
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who have brought God's
people into bondage, and
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his wise men were
sorcerers and magicians.
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The sorcerers and magicians
have worked their way into
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the leading
positions of the nation, and
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so here you have sorcerers
and magicians and they are
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doing the same
thing in some sense.
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What God was doing, they
did the same thing with their
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enchantments and it shows
that they do have real power.
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That magicians and
sorcerers did have power.
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They were there in Egypt
and were contesting the work
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of God through Moses and Aaron.
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Now then in verse 12,
this is very interesting.
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This shows that God's
power is greater than the power
00:12:03.00\00:12:07.59
of the Magic and
magicians and sorcerers.
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I see, so let's recap
what is happening here.
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So Moses, who is going in
to deliver the Israelites,
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goes in before Pharaoh
and one of the signs that he
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was to ask for, was to
throw down your rod, and
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he throws down the rod and
it becomes a living serpent.
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Am I correct? - That is correct.
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It becomes a living serpent
and at the same time it is
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almost a dual between
Moses and the magicians, in this
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case, and he says, the
Pharaoh says, I can do the same
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thing and calls out
his magicians and they
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do the same thing.
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They're serpent's, their
rods become serpents, in this
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case, but there is a dual
between the serpents themselves
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and Moses rod, which
was a serpent, swallowed
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up the other serpents?
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That's right, there is a
battle between God and His
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representatives, and
Pharaoh and his representatives,
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being the magicians.
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This is very
significant that we read in
00:12:58.74\00:13:00.97
1 Corinthians 10:11 that
the history of Israel was
00:13:01.01\00:13:04.76
written for our
admonition upon whom the ends
00:13:04.79\00:13:09.46
of the world have come.
00:13:09.49\00:13:11.14
These are texts that apply
to the end times, or at least
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they have lessons for the
end times and that was why
00:13:13.90\00:13:16.55
they were written, and
00:13:16.58\00:13:17.55
if you go back to Exodus,
you have a battle between God
00:13:17.56\00:13:19.53
and the magicians, and
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we are witnessing
the same battle today.
00:13:21.15\00:13:22.84
That battle is happening
right now in our society.
00:13:22.87\00:13:25.50
It is happening all around us,
00:13:25.54\00:13:27.06
it is happening in the
entertainment industry,
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on the Internet, it's in books,
00:13:28.59\00:13:31.66
kids books, kids
movies, cartoons, and
00:13:31.69\00:13:34.17
that is why we
are dealing with this.
00:13:34.21\00:13:36.61
In the beginning of the series
we are laying a foundation
00:13:36.65\00:13:40.33
here showing that magic
battle was going on all the way
00:13:40.36\00:13:44.01
back in Bible days
in the book of Exodus.
00:13:44.05\00:13:46.26
As you keep reading this
chapter, you can see the battle
00:13:46.30\00:13:49.53
continues on, the plagues
begin to fall one by one upon
00:13:49.57\00:13:52.77
the Egyptians and
there were 10 plagues.
00:13:52.80\00:13:55.88
In chapter 7:21 it talks
about the water becoming blood.
00:13:55.91\00:14:00.85
That was one of the
plagues and verse 22 says,
00:14:00.88\00:14:03.19
"the magicians of Egypt
did so with their enchantments
00:14:03.22\00:14:06.55
as well. " So again you
have a struggle over power, and
00:14:06.59\00:14:09.60
the magicians are not
just making it appear that they
00:14:09.63\00:14:12.60
are doing this, they
are actually doing this,
00:14:12.64\00:14:14.65
there is real power
working through the magicians,
00:14:14.69\00:14:18.35
and I think it is significant
David that when we look at the
00:14:18.39\00:14:22.33
whole Wiccan, sorcery,
occult movement, the appeal of
00:14:22.36\00:14:25.80
that movement is power
as I mentioned this article,
00:14:25.84\00:14:28.71
The Season of the Witch,
it says, "Wicca has grown in
00:14:28.74\00:14:31.54
numbers, influence and enter-
tainment value and beautiful
00:14:31.58\00:14:34.50
witches seemed to be everywhere
They are hip, they are slick
00:14:34.53\00:14:37.42
and they have power. "
00:14:37.45\00:14:39.49
That is the way they are
presented in the media and here
00:14:39.52\00:14:42.95
it says, it is the promise
of power and control that
00:14:42.99\00:14:46.46
drives Wicca to its current
level of popularity, and as we
00:14:46.49\00:14:50.82
farther into these programs,
I'm going to share some
00:14:50.85\00:14:53.39
experiences about people
that I know who have encountered
00:14:53.43\00:14:57.75
real spiritual power and
discovered that power was a
00:14:57.79\00:15:02.31
dark power, and then they
prayed and sought deliverance
00:15:02.35\00:15:06.84
from another power,
which was God's power.
00:15:06.87\00:15:09.77
He actually came in and
ripped them out from the forces
00:15:09.80\00:15:13.43
of evil that were holding
them and bringing them down.
00:15:13.47\00:15:17.05
So make no mistake about
it, we are in a power battle.
00:15:17.09\00:15:21.13
That power was going on
right there in Egypt in Exodus
00:15:21.17\00:15:25.22
8:7 it says, it talks
about the frogs that was another
00:15:25.26\00:15:29.28
plague where God sent
the frogs all over Egypt.
00:15:29.31\00:15:31.78
It says in verse 7, "and
the magicians did so with their
00:15:31.81\00:15:35.41
enchantments, and
brought up frogs upon the
00:15:35.44\00:15:37.68
land of Egypt. "
00:15:37.72\00:15:38.90
And so magicians are actually
doing miracles, real power
00:15:38.94\00:15:42.49
is operating through them
and they are counterfeiting
00:15:42.52\00:15:46.04
the work of God,
00:15:46.07\00:15:47.41
but it is interesting that
as you go farther into this
00:15:47.45\00:15:49.37
chapter as the battle continues,
the power of the magicians
00:15:49.41\00:15:52.57
it weakens and
they are exposed, that
00:15:52.60\00:15:57.19
they do not have the
same power that God has.
00:15:57.23\00:16:00.69
In Exodus 8:18 it talks
about the lice and how this was
00:16:00.73\00:16:06.74
another one of the 10 plagues.
00:16:06.78\00:16:08.63
Verse 18 says, "the
magicians did so with their
00:16:08.67\00:16:11.33
enchantments to
bring forth the lice. "
00:16:11.36\00:16:14.05
They tried, they did their
rituals, they're incantations,
00:16:14.09\00:16:17.55
whatever they did and it is
says in verse 18, "they could
00:16:17.58\00:16:21.01
not produce the lice. "
00:16:21.05\00:16:23.58
So there was a limit
to what they could do.
00:16:23.61\00:16:26.08
First 19 says, "then the
magicians said unto Pharaoh,
00:16:26.11\00:16:30.04
this is the finger of God. "
00:16:30.08\00:16:32.29
So the magicians when
confronted with God's power, His
00:16:32.32\00:16:35.60
superior power, point by
point they began to recognize
00:16:35.64\00:16:39.50
that this was not just a
human influence, or a Moses
00:16:39.53\00:16:43.10
influence, or an Aaron
influence, this was really the
00:16:43.13\00:16:46.66
power of God Himself.
00:16:46.69\00:16:48.41
The finger of God was at
work, and step-by-step, the
00:16:48.44\00:16:51.49
magicians were being
beaten down, and beaten back.
00:16:51.53\00:16:54.51
It really climaxes with this
struggle, at least as far as the
00:16:54.54\00:16:59.44
magicians go in chapter 9:11.
00:16:59.47\00:17:02.90
When the boils fell upon
the animals and upon the people.
00:17:02.93\00:17:07.07
Verse 11, "and the
magicians could not stand before
00:17:07.10\00:17:11.28
Moses because of the boils;
for the boils was upon the
00:17:11.31\00:17:15.46
magicians, and upon
all the Egyptians. "
00:17:15.49\00:17:19.15
So if you look at the
history there is a conflict, the
00:17:19.19\00:17:24.90
magicians are there,
they represent Pharaoh,
00:17:24.94\00:17:27.41
they represent the enslaver,
they are counterfeiting the
00:17:27.45\00:17:30.68
miracles of God, but
step-by-step they are losing
00:17:30.71\00:17:34.39
the battle, the superiority
that started out with Aaron's
00:17:34.42\00:17:38.72
Rod swallowing up their rod.
00:17:38.76\00:17:41.72
It was eventually played
out as you go farther into the
00:17:41.75\00:17:45.26
plagues and finally the
boils are upon them and they
00:17:45.30\00:17:48.30
don't know what to do and
recognize it is the finger of
00:17:48.34\00:17:51.30
God and they are in trouble.
00:17:51.34\00:17:53.61
They look to Pharaoh and
say, you might as well let these
00:17:53.64\00:17:56.97
people go because there
is a spiritual power here.
00:17:57.00\00:18:00.15
So it was
greater than their power.
00:18:00.18\00:18:02.28
So I see, it played out
throughout this scenario, there
00:18:02.31\00:18:05.42
is a real power behind
these magicians? - That's right!
00:18:05.46\00:18:08.39
There is a power behind Moses
and they are at conflict, but
00:18:08.43\00:18:11.55
as we see through the
sequence of the plagues, you see
00:18:11.58\00:18:14.95
certain limitations of the
power of the magicians, and
00:18:14.99\00:18:18.32
God's power comes
out to be superior.
00:18:18.35\00:18:20.41
We will see that contrast,
I am assuming, throughout the
00:18:20.45\00:18:22.79
rest of the series as
well. - That is correct.
00:18:22.82\00:18:24.25
Many people look at life
through a secular humanistic
00:18:24.28\00:18:27.25
perspective and they
don't think there is really a
00:18:27.29\00:18:30.22
supernatural world out there.
00:18:30.25\00:18:31.86
But according to this book,
there is a real supernatural
00:18:31.89\00:18:35.42
world, and those that are
delving, dabbling into the
00:18:35.46\00:18:39.10
witchcraft movement,
many of them are looking for
00:18:39.13\00:18:42.70
sincere power, and they
often find power, real spiritual
00:18:42.74\00:18:47.68
power, but the problem
is they do not know the
00:18:47.71\00:18:50.32
nature of that power.
00:18:50.36\00:18:52.96
They think, those that are
witchcraft, I've been on a lot
00:18:53.00\00:18:55.26
of radio shows, TV shows.
00:18:55.29\00:18:57.10
I've been interviewed and
had people calling on these
00:18:57.13\00:18:58.76
programs and talk
about what they do.
00:18:58.80\00:19:01.14
I get e-mails from
witches and Wiccans.
00:19:01.18\00:19:03.46
Someone forward to me and
e- mail from witchcraft Bob
00:19:03.49\00:19:06.35
who said here's the
latest spell that would help you
00:19:06.39\00:19:09.21
with your love
life, or your money,
00:19:09.25\00:19:11.36
or it will help you financially.
00:19:11.39\00:19:13.43
The list goes on and on,
there is just so many people
00:19:13.46\00:19:15.75
that are checking this out, and
00:19:15.78\00:19:17.66
again the appeal is power,
and its people get into this
00:19:17.69\00:19:21.29
in time they find out it
is not just a human influence.
00:19:21.32\00:19:24.63
The secular humanist who
say there is no supernatural
00:19:24.67\00:19:27.95
power out there, they are wrong.
00:19:27.98\00:19:29.75
There is a real power out
there, there is two powers.
00:19:29.78\00:19:32.86
There's God's power and the
power of the enemy ultimately
00:19:32.89\00:19:35.93
which the Bible says
is of Satan the devil, and
00:19:35.97\00:19:38.28
I know that witches do
not believe in Satan which is
00:19:38.32\00:19:40.98
surprising to many people.
00:19:41.01\00:19:42.61
I will demonstrate this
later on, I will actually show
00:19:42.64\00:19:45.17
you quotations were people
who were into witchcraft say
00:19:45.21\00:19:48.45
that the concept of a devil
is just a Christian concept.
00:19:48.48\00:19:51.52
They do not believe in
that, so they say don't worry
00:19:51.55\00:19:54.56
about us we are
not doing anything bad,
00:19:54.59\00:19:57.35
we are just practicing
white magic and say they do not
00:19:57.38\00:20:00.81
even believe in Satan,
00:20:00.84\00:20:02.25
so how can Satan be
involved with us because
00:20:02.29\00:20:04.83
we do not believe in him.
00:20:04.86\00:20:06.84
As we will demonstrate,
there is a real Satan and he is
00:20:06.88\00:20:11.57
working behind the scenes, and
00:20:11.61\00:20:13.20
those that think they are
tapping into the forces of
00:20:13.23\00:20:15.55
nature, or the forces of
the moon, the sun, the rocks,
00:20:15.58\00:20:18.53
the trees, the birds,
there are all kinds of gods and
00:20:18.56\00:20:22.79
deities in witchcraft that
these powers, they think are
00:20:22.82\00:20:26.02
the powers of the spirits
of the forest, the trees,
00:20:26.06\00:20:29.24
and even spirits of
the dead, but they are not,
00:20:29.28\00:20:32.49
and they are impersonators,
they are tricksters,
00:20:32.52\00:20:35.70
they are liars
and deceivers, and
00:20:35.74\00:20:37.41
they represent the enslaver,
just like Pharaoh was the
00:20:37.44\00:20:41.03
enslaver of
God's people in Egypt,
00:20:41.06\00:20:44.15
so these forces represent
the ultimate enslaver who is
00:20:44.19\00:20:48.96
the devil himself; and
00:20:48.99\00:20:50.39
his goal is to get into
peoples lives and trick them to
00:20:50.43\00:20:53.25
think it is a friendly
power and then he can come right
00:20:53.28\00:20:56.07
into their minds and
take over their lives and
00:20:56.11\00:20:58.29
pull them down.
00:20:58.33\00:21:00.00
God wants to deliver His
people out from these forces,
00:21:00.03\00:21:03.81
and at the beginning of the
series we are trying to lay the
00:21:03.85\00:21:07.17
foundation and talking
about how big this movement is,
00:21:07.20\00:21:10.84
it's here and all around
us, anybody that is aware of
00:21:10.88\00:21:14.07
what is happening in our
society knows that this is
00:21:14.10\00:21:17.23
happening and we are showing
from the Bible in our first
00:21:17.26\00:21:22.41
program, 1 Corinthians 10:11
says what was written in the
00:21:22.45\00:21:27.33
history of Israel is for
our learning, especially those
00:21:27.36\00:21:32.21
of us that live at the end, and
00:21:32.25\00:21:34.04
we go back to the history
of Israel and see the battle
00:21:34.07\00:21:36.53
between God and
the magicians, and
00:21:36.56\00:21:39.08
we see this superiority of
God's power over the magicians,
00:21:39.11\00:21:43.09
point by point by point,
and finally God delivers His
00:21:43.13\00:21:46.98
people out of Egypt
and He brings them into
00:21:47.01\00:21:50.42
the promise land.
00:21:50.45\00:21:51.85
That is what this is all
about, is to be a channel to
00:21:51.88\00:21:55.90
bring people out of
the darkness, out of Egypt.
00:21:55.93\00:21:58.76
I remember getting,
again somebody forwarded me an
00:21:58.80\00:22:01.59
e- mail recently
from witchcraft Bob.
00:22:01.63\00:22:04.10
They said Steve check this out.
00:22:04.14\00:22:05.35
Witchcraft Bob was offering
all the spells and his own
00:22:05.39\00:22:09.47
book, which advertised the
secrets, the ancient secrets
00:22:09.50\00:22:13.55
of witchcraft from Egypt.
00:22:13.59\00:22:15.61
Old Witchcraft Spells from
Egypt, I thought here going
00:22:15.64\00:22:19.36
back to Egypt, and there
is witchcraft spells that go
00:22:19.40\00:22:23.29
back to Babylon, that go
back to Assyria and just all
00:22:23.32\00:22:27.18
kinds of religions. There are
00:22:27.21\00:22:28.94
god's and goddesses from Greece
and Rome and the list goes
00:22:28.97\00:22:31.75
on and on and the
conflict continues.
00:22:31.79\00:22:34.19
The conflict is going on
right now, just like it was
00:22:34.23\00:22:36.74
going on in Bible days.
00:22:36.77\00:22:38.44
So it didn't end in Exodus?
It's gone all the way down
00:22:38.48\00:22:41.47
through history to our day
and this is just a tip of the
00:22:41.51\00:22:44.42
iceberg and there is
something behind the magicians,
00:22:44.45\00:22:46.81
there is something
behind these representatives.
00:22:46.85\00:22:49.14
I would like to say as a
young person growing up in the
00:22:49.17\00:22:52.78
21st Century, you grow
up in a scientific age, and
00:22:52.82\00:22:56.21
where, like you said,
we don't believe in the
00:22:56.25\00:22:59.57
supernatural, it's Pasay,
that's the religion of the
00:22:59.61\00:23:02.41
Bible, and I think part of
the draw of the supernatural
00:23:02.44\00:23:05.42
is when you start dabbling
in Wicca you realize that
00:23:05.45\00:23:08.39
there is something behind,
00:23:08.43\00:23:11.15
there are spirits that
are there that are driving all
00:23:11.18\00:23:13.71
this, and I think
that is to draw, because
00:23:13.74\00:23:15.21
you almost exist in this pure
scientific aura, our world view
00:23:15.25\00:23:19.77
and realize there are spirits.
00:23:19.81\00:23:21.71
These things are real and I
think we will be going later
00:23:21.74\00:23:25.31
into some scientific findings
about individuals dealing
00:23:25.34\00:23:28.87
with the supernatural
scientific data that proves
00:23:28.91\00:23:30.72
empirically that
spirits do exist.
00:23:30.76\00:23:32.64
Or something exist
beyond our existence.
00:23:32.67\00:23:34.28
I have a little clicking
here from a newspaper in
00:23:34.32\00:23:38.20
Paso Robles, where I use
to live and this is called the
00:23:38.24\00:23:41.08
Crimson Chronicle from
the Paso Robles high school,
00:23:41.12\00:23:44.07
it's a student paper and
it talks about, the title is
00:23:44.10\00:23:46.81
Which Witch? It is about
kids getting into witchcraft
00:23:46.85\00:23:49.19
right there on the high
school campus that I used to
00:23:49.23\00:23:51.53
live right
around the corner from.
00:23:51.57\00:23:53.06
It says here, "Wiccans
encounter spirits on a regular
00:23:53.09\00:23:56.35
basis. " And one young
man, a sophomore in school,
00:23:56.39\00:23:59.62
he says that he can
feel spirits with me as I
00:23:59.65\00:24:04.87
worship my goddess.
00:24:04.90\00:24:06.43
So the spirits are
real, they are out there, the
00:24:06.46\00:24:08.66
supernatural world is real, and
00:24:08.70\00:24:10.33
the biggest problem with
those that are getting into
00:24:10.36\00:24:12.57
Wicca, is not the people
are bad, the people are like
00:24:12.61\00:24:15.16
us, they are searching
for spiritual power, but they
00:24:15.20\00:24:17.71
do not realize who
the spirits are, and
00:24:17.75\00:24:19.80
that they represent the
enslaver, trying to bring them
00:24:19.83\00:24:23.16
down into bondage and they
can get in and destroy your
00:24:23.20\00:24:26.49
life, that is the danger.
00:24:26.53\00:24:28.76
We are running out of time
here for our first program.
00:24:28.80\00:24:31.28
Let me just share a
text in Colossians 1:13.
00:24:31.31\00:24:35.61
Colossians 1:13 is talking
about God's power and says.
00:24:35.64\00:24:40.29
The farther you get into
researching what Wiccans believe
00:24:55.09\00:24:57.98
they don't believe in the
Bible, they don't believe in
00:24:58.01\00:25:00.87
Jesus Christ as the Savior.
00:25:00.90\00:25:02.49
They don't believe in
confessing their sins.
00:25:02.52\00:25:04.66
They do not believe in
forgiveness, because they don't
00:25:04.69\00:25:07.52
really need for that, and
00:25:07.55\00:25:09.20
as they get farther into
this, they find themselves,
00:25:09.24\00:25:11.70
many times, in deep spiritual
trouble, and they can't get
00:25:11.73\00:25:14.94
out, they can't get out.
00:25:14.98\00:25:17.04
The only way they can get
out is with the supernatural
00:25:17.07\00:25:20.18
power that is greater
than the power they have opened
00:25:20.22\00:25:23.29
their hearts to, that
power is revealed in this verse
00:25:23.33\00:25:26.74
that God has delivered us
from the power of darkness, and
00:25:26.77\00:25:30.15
He has brought us into
the kingdom of His Son.
00:25:30.19\00:25:33.29
Throughout this series
David, we are going to prove
00:25:33.33\00:25:36.47
the superiority of God's
power over the power of magic.
00:25:36.50\00:25:39.61
We're going to show the
truthfulness of this book.
00:25:39.64\00:25:42.52
The power of this book.
00:25:42.55\00:25:43.99
We are going to show
the goodness of the Gospel,
00:25:44.02\00:25:47.49
that God sent His own
Son and we are going to show
00:25:47.52\00:25:50.95
the need for forgiveness.
00:25:50.99\00:25:52.49
We all need that forgiveness.
00:25:52.53\00:25:53.96
We are going to show ultimately
David, the power of love.
00:25:54.00\00:25:56.89
John 3:16 is one of the
most well-known verses in the
00:25:56.93\00:26:00.49
Bible where Jesus said
"for God so loved the world that
00:26:00.52\00:26:03.79
he gave his only begotten
son that whosoever believeth
00:26:03.83\00:26:07.06
in him should never
perish but have eternal life. "
00:26:07.10\00:26:11.05
The power of love is what
people need more than anything
00:26:11.09\00:26:14.37
else, and that is the
power that is in Jesus Christ.
00:26:14.40\00:26:17.39
That is the power that
changed my life and changed your
00:26:17.43\00:26:21.15
life, and it can change
your life if you are open and
00:26:21.19\00:26:24.88
willing to let that
love and power come in.
00:26:24.92\00:26:28.87
So the last 60 seconds
here or so in this program,
00:26:28.91\00:26:33.27
we have gone into a lot.
00:26:33.30\00:26:34.44
We have talked about
Moses and the magicians.
00:26:34.48\00:26:36.05
Let's say that someone
in our viewing audience has
00:26:36.08\00:26:39.47
dabbled a little bit
with this and they are facing
00:26:39.51\00:26:42.56
some challenges and
are tempted to go into the
00:26:42.59\00:26:45.57
supernatural, what would
you say as a message of hope
00:26:45.60\00:26:48.69
an appeal to them from
Scripture that will give them
00:26:48.72\00:26:51.77
some assurance in
dealing with this,
00:26:51.81\00:26:53.55
or perhaps a text or
something from God's Word that
00:26:53.58\00:26:57.13
would help with
temptation on this.
00:26:57.17\00:26:59.21
We have a whole
program ahead of us called,
00:26:59.25\00:27:01.68
Defense Against the Dark
Arts, and we are going to go
00:27:01.71\00:27:03.47
into the details
of what to do, but
00:27:03.51\00:27:05.79
I am reminded of my
friend Pam, she had been a witch
00:27:05.82\00:27:09.24
for many years, she had
the spells, the incantations,
00:27:09.27\00:27:12.82
she had the books, and
the jewelry she was using in
00:27:12.86\00:27:16.34
witchcraft, and eventually
the powers of darkness just
00:27:16.38\00:27:19.65
about took over her life, and
00:27:19.69\00:27:21.01
she got on her knees, she
remembered her Christian roots
00:27:21.05\00:27:23.70
and said God, if you are
still there and still want me
00:27:23.74\00:27:26.35
come in and get me out of this,
00:27:26.39\00:27:28.76
and that is what He did, so
prayer and opening your heart
00:27:28.80\00:27:32.75
to the God of the
Bible, the God of the universe.
00:27:32.79\00:27:34.91
He can do it, He has done
it for others, and He can do it
00:27:34.95\00:27:38.63
for you and we have a lot
more to discuss in this program
00:27:38.66\00:27:42.31
Magic, Ghosts, and the Bible.
00:27:42.35\00:27:46.03
Well thank you so
much for sharing with us,
00:27:46.06\00:27:48.51
it has been a fascinating
study, and we would like to
00:27:48.54\00:27:50.75
thank our viewing
audience for joining us as well.
00:27:50.78\00:27:53.03
We have discussed a lot
here today from a biblical
00:27:53.06\00:27:55.71
perspective, dealing with
Moses and the magicians and
00:27:55.74\00:27:59.09
how God's power is superior
to that of these supernatural
00:27:59.12\00:28:02.43
entities that are out there.
00:28:02.47\00:28:04.12
Thank you so much for joining
us today and we would like
00:28:04.16\00:28:06.70
to invite you to join us
again next time as we delve into
00:28:06.73\00:28:09.24
the Scriptures from
the biblical perspective.
00:28:09.27\00:28:11.92