Participants: Atonte Myers, Ivor Myers
Series Code: BOF
Program Code: BOF000008
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00:15 Welcome to battles of faith.
00:17 I'm Atonte Myers and I'm Ivor Myers. 00:20 Today's program we are going to be discussing music. 00:23 But not just any kind of music, were going to be talking 00:27 about Christian rock, Christian rap, Christian hip hop, 00:31 and Christian music overall. 00:34 We know that this is a very touchy situation and so we are 00:38 going to have open minds and we pray that you will have open 00:42 minds and we want you to know from the very beginning that 00:45 we love you, God loves you and we know you will love us. 00:49 We are just going to go through the Word of God. 00:51 That's right Atonte, this is definitely a subject that is 00:55 on the minds of a lot of people. 00:57 There are people that are wondering whether it is wrong 01:02 to take the styles of Rock and Rap and Reggae and other 01:07 types of music like that and to put Christian words to it. 01:11 There really is a lot of debate, not just in this church, 01:15 but I believe in churches all across the board with this 01:20 issue, so it is definitely a subject that we felt indeed 01:25 needed to be included this 13 part series. 01:28 And you have personal experience with this because as 01:32 some of our viewing audience may know that you were 01:37 a Rap Artist and you were signed with a EMI records and 01:41 had an $800,000 contract. 01:44 Then you found the Lord. Ivor: Correct! 01:46 Then after you found the Lord you were still doing your 01:48 music so you decided to talk about God within your rap music. 01:53 That's right and we became Christians and were so excited 01:57 about it that we decided to take the gospel message and 02:01 to put it into our music. 02:03 I can tell you upfront that we were very, very, absolutely 02:07 sincere, we were on fire. 02:12 As we deal with this subject we are definitely not 02:15 attacking or bringing into question anyone's sincerity 02:20 because again, firsthand experience when in those clubs 02:24 talking about Jesus. 02:26 I was doing it sincerely, but the Lord began to do some 02:31 things in my life that brought me to a crossroads where 02:35 I had to decide whether I was going to do what I believe 02:40 the word of God was calling me to do or to continue. 02:44 From that point on actually pretend to be serving Christ 02:49 when I knew that God had showed me otherwise. 02:52 So what would happen when you were rapping these songs 02:55 about God that had the hip-hop beat behind it when you 02:59 would go out on stage. 03:00 What would happen? What was the people's reaction? 03:02 We were being touted as one of the first hip-hop groups to 03:08 actually be mixing successfully Christianity with hip-hop. 03:13 So one of the things about music Atonte, especially with 03:17 rap music and rock music and reggae music is that you 03:22 have things that come and go as fads. 03:26 I can just think of so many different fads that came with 03:32 our hip-hop, also with rock music. 03:36 Once it became old, you talk about those things, it became 03:40 old all across the board, no one talked about it anymore. 03:44 I think if for no other reason, this is one of the reasons 03:50 why God does not want to mix His pure message with these 03:56 styles of music because they bring in a fad. 03:59 Before you know it everybody is on this fad, but then 4-5-6 04:04 years passes and now, oh, that is old. 04:07 We don't talk about that anymore. 04:08 This is one of the things that I believe the Lord brought 04:13 conviction to me about was taking something that was going 04:17 to end up becoming a fad, and I believe that is one of the 04:22 reasons Atonte why He actually drew us out of this industry 04:26 because when we talk about the Word of God and the urgency 04:32 of the gospel message I don't think we can take a vehicle 04:38 that makes things cliquish and put the gospel into that 04:42 kind of vehicle because what ends up happening is the 04:46 gospel becomes cliquish and after while, oh, that is old. 04:51 We're off to something new now. 04:52 Now I wasn't married to you when you did the rap music, 04:56 but I have seen some of your album covers and one of 04:59 the songs that was on there was, The Mark of the Beast. 05:02 So you were up there rapping about the Mark of the beast 05:05 and people were dancing, were they putting down their 05:08 marijuana cigarettes or their beer bottles? 05:12 That is a very serious message. 05:14 Right, I always remember being in the club's and the four 05:17 of us would be performing and talking about Jesus. 05:19 We would be warning the people, come out of the clubs and 05:24 all these different things and yet we didn't see people 05:28 putting down those things we knew weren't good. 05:32 We didn't see them putting down alcohol or changing their 05:35 vocabulary or different things like that. 05:37 It was just, yeah this music is really cool man. 05:41 This music is just, you guys are famous, or whatever it was 05:47 but we didn't see any actual changes. 05:49 That is not to say there were no changes. 05:52 I believe that God used us, and I will say He used us in 05:55 our ignorance, I believe while we were ignorant in what we 05:59 were doing, God used us because we were sincere. 06:03 But when the time came for more light to be brought to us, 06:07 we had to either follow that light or turn away from it. 06:12 So you felt you could no longer try to help people get 06:16 out of Babylon and still be in Babylon yourself? 06:19 That was a very distinct message the Lord gave me after 06:21 I was very concerned because I didn't see any changes 06:24 happening and I was wondering Lord how come these people 06:27 aren't having this dramatic change in their lives. 06:31 What is going on? 06:33 The Lord said to me, my son you cannot call people out 06:37 of Babylon if you are still a Babylon yourself. 06:40 Atonte I know so many young people who are attempting to 06:43 use the methods of Babylon, the things of Babylon 06:49 to reach the world. 06:52 It is a principle that God makes clear in His word that 06:58 He does not use the things of Satan to His glory. 07:02 God calls us out, He said you are in Babylon. 07:07 Again I said there are many people who are still dressing 07:11 and acting and talking according to this world, but trying 07:16 to use the gospel message in that setting to bring other 07:21 people into the church. 07:23 It is very interesting because the Bible tells us that we 07:28 should have a humble meek spirit about us. 07:32 You have told me, and I have seen for myself, that it's 07:37 impossible to rap or sing hip-hop music or R & B music 07:42 or rock music and have a humble spirit about yourself. 07:46 People aren't coming to see a humble meek spirit just 07:49 calmly walk across the stage and say nice words. 07:53 You have to have that prideful spirit about yourself. 07:59 That is why it is difficult to mix the two. 08:00 That is right and a lot of these so-called Christian 08:04 hip-hop lyrics you will have artists saying things like, 08:08 I smash the devil and I do this and I do that to the devil. 08:13 Again, myself being one of those artists, those words were 08:17 words that were full of pride and self exaltation. 08:22 I had the power to do this, and I had the power to do that. 08:26 It is impossible to have a spirit of humility while you 08:31 are on the stage and moving a certain way. 08:34 You have to be bouncing a certain way and the whole 08:38 thing just reeks of pride. 08:39 The audience doesn't want you up there in front of them... 08:48 they want to see that you think that you have got it. 08:50 They want to see you strut across the stage. 08:53 They want to see you act like you are it. 08:55 Atonte: All of that the young people would say. 08:58 The spirit of humility is totally absent, and totally 09:03 contradictory to the rock and rap industry. 09:08 We see the example of Jesus went He came to this earth. 09:12 He was so humble and so meek and just had a Spirit about 09:17 Him that didn't draw attention to Himself because of a 09:21 prideful spirit, but because He had the Holy Spirit and 09:25 the love of the Father that people were drawn to Him. 09:28 You know Atonte, one of the things that concerns me the 09:32 most, as I came out of the hip-hop industry and was fully 09:36 drawn out, even in the Christian so-called. 09:39 When I came out of the group that we were in, I thought to 09:46 myself I am now fully out of this and I began to look 09:52 at what was happening in churches, 09:54 I'm talking about all denominations. 09:55 I would say to myself this is amazing, here I am I just 09:59 gave over $800,000 contract to get out of this entire realm 10:04 and here it is coming into the church. 10:06 I read somewhere that just before Jesus comes again, one of 10:10 the issues that the devil will actually use to deceive a lot 10:14 of people, especially in churches, would be the issue of 10:19 music, of so-called Christian rap, or Christian rock. 10:24 Christian versions of worldly styles of music. 10:28 It is a very big issue right now. 10:32 Many people are dealing with it because they say, hey we 10:35 don't listen, we only listen to the words it's not about 10:39 the music or the beat, it's only about the words. 10:43 We are going to touch on the issue, but let me say this. 10:45 I think of Daniel Chapter three as well. 10:47 Daniel 3 is a story of three Hebrew boys who were 10:52 brought to a confrontation that has a prophetic scenario 10:56 behind it, in other words there was the actual and literal 11:00 story of these three Hebrews, who were brought before this 11:04 image that King Nebuchadnezzar, that Babylon had built. 11:08 He commanded all the people to bow down at the time when 11:12 the music was played to this image. 11:15 Well this has a greater fulfillment in the last days 11:17 because we read about another image that is going to 11:21 be built and I believe that music is going to play a 11:24 very important part of bringing all the people 11:27 together to bow down. 11:29 Atonte it's been said that music is a universal language and we 11:33 have seen that hip hop and rock music, especially hip-hop, 11:38 it has broken all cultural barriers. 11:42 That's right, I didn't watch the program myself but a friend 11:46 e- mailed me about it, it was on Nightline. 11:49 They were interviewing some Iranian Muslim young men. 11:54 Iran is the most conservative Muslim country in the world. 11:58 It is stated to be one of the most conservative. 12:01 These young people were at a college there in Iran and they 12:06 were being interviewed about their lifestyle. 12:08 The reporter asked them, what is your favorite kind of 12:10 music, what do you enjoy listening to? 12:13 The response was Snoop Doggy Dog, which is a rapper who 12:20 is from the Los Angeles area and who is very big. 12:24 He is so big that he has gone all the way to Iran, which is 12:28 one of the most conservative Muslim countries. 12:31 He is one of the most vulgar rappers if you will. 12:36 Because he raps about women and sex and uses a lot of 12:40 filthy words, so it's amazing how this has penetrated 12:44 every single culture. 12:46 We get letters from people in New Zealand, South Africa, 12:50 Australia, all around the world who are saying hip-hop is 12:54 here, and I was reading an article on the way here to film 12:58 these programs, that France is huge, 13:02 the whole hip-hop music is very huge. 13:06 It is all around the world, it doesn't matter if you are 13:07 black, white, Korean, Chinese, it doesn't matter. 13:10 It's there. 13:11 Right, we have discussed on the prior program the issues 13:14 a secular rock, secular rap, and on this program we want 13:18 to get into what we have been talking about, so-called 13:22 Christian rock and Christian rap. 13:24 We are going to go back to a Bible verse that we have 13:27 been using throughout this program so you can get this 13:29 firmly established in your mind. 13:31 Revelation 18:23 and again the Bible says in the latter 13:37 part of that verse, "for by thy sorceries were" 13:40 "all nations deceived. " 13:43 Again Atonte when you think about all nations being 13:45 deceived by sorcery, we know that this is not saying 13:48 that all nations are going to end up watching Harry Potter. 13:51 In most people's mind sorcery stops at Harry Potter or it 13:54 stop at the Ouija board or astrology and different 14:00 things like that but the Bible says here that all nations 14:02 were deceived by sorcery. 14:03 When we understand the definition, as we stated before, 14:06 this word sorcery, Greek word Pharmakeia. 14:09 It is anything that medicates the mind, in particular, 14:13 so that it will not follow the will or law of God. 14:15 Atonte: Anything? Ivor: anything! 14:17 So when we think about rock music and rap music which are 14:22 full of rebellion, we can rightly and biblically state 14:27 that these styles of music are a form of sorcery or magic. 14:32 Now Atonte we would call these black magic, overtly evil. 14:38 No one has a question who reads the Bible that the words 14:44 of these styles of music and the different fruits that these 14:50 styles of music produced are evil. 14:54 The Bible calls these, in fact and 1 Samuel 15:23, 14:57 the Bible says witchcraft is as, rather rebellion is the 15:02 sin of witchcraft. 15:03 Or rather rebellion is witchcraft. 15:05 The fact that these styles of music encourage rebellion, 15:10 in particular against God, we can biblically say that 15:15 these are a form of magic. 15:18 Are black magic. 15:20 We would call that black magic. 15:22 So things like the Ouija board, that would be classified 15:25 under black magic? Ivor: that's right! 15:27 The books and movies of Harry Potter, that is openly 15:30 black magic and we can see that those things are evil. 15:34 Most people consider Harry Potter black magic. 15:37 They'll consider the Ouija board, I'm talking about 15:41 Christians now, they will consider the Ouija board black 15:44 magic but they won't stop to consider that rock music and 15:47 rap music and these different styles of music that pull 15:50 people away from God by medicating the mind so 15:53 they will not follow the will, or law of God is also a 15:56 form of magic, black magic. 15:59 We're not talking about black magic today, but there is 16:02 another part to that, Wicca witches will often say, 16:05 we do not practice black magic, we practice white magic. 16:09 I've been on the Internet and seeing Atonte, where there are 16:13 some Christian Wiccans. 16:15 People who profess to be both Christian and Wiccan 16:19 at the same time. 16:20 Because they use that power to do good things. 16:23 That's right and the definition of white magic, we would 16:28 say white magic is that which is used for good purposes. 16:32 That's what a Wiccan would say, white magic is used for 16:36 good purposes, but as a Christian we know that all magic 16:40 comes from one source and that source is the devil it is Satan. 16:44 He appears, the Bible says, in 2 Corinthians 11:14, in 16:48 no marvel for Satan himself appears as an angel of light. 16:53 So here's the principal Atonte. 16:55 Satan realizes that for every genuine thing he has to 17:00 produce two counterfeits. 17:01 One for the world, black magic. 17:04 Then the church is not going to fall for that, the church is not 17:08 going to say, hey let's go out to do a séance. 17:12 They are not going to do that, so he has to provide 17:17 another face, another deception and we will call that 17:21 deception, white magic. 17:23 That which appears as light. 17:26 I was reading in one book Atonte where it likened, 17:29 it described white magic as happening in many so-called 17:33 Christian circles, using the name of God, even using Bible 17:38 terms and terminology, calling itself light because it 17:42 appears as righteous instead of overtly evil. 17:46 So this concept of white magic, or the beautiful side of 17:51 evil, is what it is called in some places, is a very 17:57 pertinent point when we come to the issue of Christian 18:02 rock and Christian rap. 18:05 You know Atonte, real quick, we look at the history of how 18:08 Satan has worked. 18:09 You look at paganism, very powerful tool that Satan was 18:14 using for thousands of years, but once he saw the church 18:19 beginning to move forward in Christ. 18:21 He was realizing he was losing his grip what he said was, 18:25 okay, we will take this overtly evil and we 18:31 will make it look good. 18:33 It's almost like you can't beat him, so join him. 18:36 So join him. 18:37 So he brought in his deceptions a lot of his sorcery as it were, 18:42 into being favorable with Christians because it now 18:47 appeared with the name Christian before it. 18:51 So we get to the issue Atonte, of music again, we see 18:54 for every genuine there are two counterfeits. 18:56 You have got holy music. 18:59 As we said the Angels in heaven 19:02 are singing holy music all the time. 19:04 Then we've got the obviously evil, when Christians look 19:08 at rock and rap they are obviously seeing this is not 19:12 a good thing, look at what it's doing. 19:13 But then the devil says if we can't beat them, join them. 19:18 Join them with the world. 19:20 Here you have the concept now of Christian rap, 19:23 Christian rock which the devil is using as a form of 19:27 white magic to deceive many. 19:29 Let's clarify that, we are not saying that people are 19:32 practicing white magic. 19:34 I did not know that I was, I wasn't out there saying 19:37 I'm going to take holy and profane and mix them together. 19:40 But in my ignorance I was doing what I thought was God's will. 19:45 Until God opened my eyes and showed me what fellowship 19:48 does light have with darkness, or Belial, which is another 19:53 name of Satan, with Christ. 19:54 I think a perfect example is going back to your testimony. 19:58 You at first you were doing what we quote, unquote say, 20:02 black magic, you were doing open obviously evil music. 20:07 Talking about things of the world and 20:08 nothing was about God. 20:10 Then actually you got, became converted during the second 20:13 album, and the second half of the album talked about God. 20:16 Because that is what you wanted to talk about, but you 20:19 kept the same beat, the same rhythm, 20:21 everything was the same. 20:22 Ivor: and the same spirit. 20:24 The same spirit, did you lose any followers? 20:26 Did your fans, or the people that bought your music say, 20:29 no way, you are saying things about God, or did they keep 20:31 dancing on side B like they did side A? 20:35 Yep, I think that just shows again, light and darkness 20:40 cannot dwell together. 20:42 Wherever you see light and darkness dwelling together in 20:47 so-called harmony, something is not right there. 20:50 When we're going to those clubs and be speaking words of 20:56 light, but our music was in darkness people were grooving 21:01 to our music, they were dancing to this life and death message. 21:04 We thought, there is something wrong with this definitely. 21:08 Not to say that all we should listen to is hymns, that is 21:12 not so because there is a lot of contemporary music out there 21:15 that I believe is very reverent and glorifying God. 21:21 There are different cultures that listen to different 21:26 music, or play different music according to their culture. 21:30 No one is telling anyone, this is the exact music that 21:33 you have to play or listen to. 21:35 I call it there is good music with inside a box but then 21:40 there is also other music outside of the box that is not 21:43 good and we are just finding that many times and churches 21:47 were going outside that box. 21:49 We are going outside of biblical guidelines. 21:52 Atonte, I've heard the argument a lot of times, 21:56 what if the words are good and we're using it to 22:00 this style of music? 22:01 There is a powerful example Atonte in Chapter 16 of this 22:05 very argument, it says here in Acts 16:16. 22:09 "And it came to pass that as we went to prayer a certain" 22:14 "damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which" 22:18 "brought her masters much gain by soothsaying. " 22:20 So it's obvious here Atonte, that this woman is possessed 22:24 with a demonic spirit. 22:26 But it goes on to say in verse 17, 22:28 "the same followed Paul and us, and cried saying, these" 22:32 "men are the servants of the most high God, which show" 22:37 "unto us the way of salvation. " 22:39 Now the question is, is sorcery at work here? 22:43 Obviously so, the text says it. 22:45 It tells us this woman was possessed with an evil spirit. 22:49 But the question again is, what kind of sorcery, or what 22:52 kind of magic is she using? 22:55 Overtly evil, or she using something that appears to be 22:58 good, or is she doing something that appears to be good 23:02 and holy and righteous? 23:04 It appears to be good because she is saying that these are 23:06 men of God, which they were men of God. 23:08 She was not lying, but the spirit that she had 23:11 in her was a demon. 23:13 Now listen what it says. 23:14 "And this she did many days. But Paul being grieved," 23:18 "turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name" 23:22 "of Jesus Christ to come out of her. " 23:24 "And he came out the same hour. " 23:28 Atonte I think here is a clear example in the Bible where 23:32 this woman is possessed by an evil, wicked spirit, but the 23:37 spirit is hiding under the guise of light, or whiteness. 23:41 White magic, white sorcery. 23:43 The words that she is using are good words, but the devil 23:48 knew, and Paul knew as well, that if you could get this 23:53 woman who was steeped in the culture of witchcraft and 23:57 sorcery, which she was, if he can get this woman to go out 24:01 and start to proclaim the message, what he would be doing 24:05 he would be successfully mocking the work of God. 24:10 That is what a lot of Christian rock and Christian rap 24:14 does, it mocks the word of God. 24:17 God says I want you to be humble, I want you to be meek. 24:20 It is the very opposite, the words are good, the music 24:23 inspires rebellion as we looked at in our previous show. 24:28 The culture is a rebellious culture, so to use something 24:32 that is rebellious and stick Christ's name to it, 24:34 to say this is good. 24:36 I think if Paul were in our time he would turn and rebuke 24:39 that spirit as well. 24:40 Why else would Satan do that? 24:43 Demons are able to speak truth, because he did it with Eve. 24:47 Satan said a little bit of truth and mixed it with some lies and 24:51 that was the way he was able to beguile her, or to deceive her. 24:54 That is the only reason why he would do that. 24:57 The Bible tells us, by their fruits you shall know them. 25:01 I think anytime we test something we ought to 25:04 look at the fruit. 25:05 I believe gospel rock, rap and ragging all reveal the fruit of 25:08 rebellion which is, as the Bible says, witchcraft, 25:13 a form of sorcery. 25:14 Why do we say that? 25:16 Well first of all I believe that rap and rock music causes 25:20 division, out in the world it caused division. 25:23 It is not family oriented. 25:25 You never hear a rap about how much you love your family, 25:28 or how much you love your wife, it's about division. 25:31 It divides even out in the world. 25:34 Isn't there a promise the Bible that God says in the last 25:37 days He is going to draw the hearts of the fathers to the 25:40 children, and the hearts of the children to the fathers. 25:43 And not separate them. 25:45 As we bring gospel rap into the church, 25:47 what do we see happening? 25:48 We are seeing that we can't even worship together anymore. 25:51 You have to have a youth service that has this type of 25:54 music and have another service for the older generation. 25:58 And it is causing division. 25:59 Another thing Atonte, we talked about this in a previous show 26:02 Cowley's law, do as thy will shall be the whole of the law. 26:06 I find that a lot of people have this attitude that I 26:09 don't care what you think, I'm going to listen to 26:13 this music anyway. 26:14 I'm going to just rebel against the standards that 26:20 we believe are just church standards. 26:21 We are going to do we want to do. 26:23 So that is another fruit, the fruit of rebellion. 26:26 The fruit of I'm going to do what I want to do. 26:28 There's a third fruit Atonte and that is, as we watch what 26:32 this is doing as it comes into churches, all across the 26:36 board, the culture of rock and rap are being dragged 26:40 right in behind the music. 26:42 You can't separate the music from the culture. 26:44 So as the music comes in weeks, or months, or years later 26:47 now you find kids coming to church dress with their hat 26:50 turned backward, pants sagging, and the culture is 26:53 following right on the heels. 26:55 The last point Atonte is that when we look at the issue of 26:59 biblical literacy among our youth, it is interesting that 27:04 the more this music takes the place of solid Bible study, 27:07 of solid worship, we are finding that more and more of these 27:11 kids are less and less biblically literate. 27:14 I believe that is one of the devil's plans because he wants 27:17 to pull us totally, just wipe out the young people so that 27:20 they have no Bible knowledge and everything is about 27:22 feelings and in doing that, what else does the 27:28 devil have to do? 27:29 He has wiped out a complete generation. 27:30 Christ has come to say, I want you to stand and rise to the 27:35 occasion, to be firm in knowing what is right and what is 27:40 wrong and to depend on the word of God to draw people. 27:44 Not these other means which the devil offers us. 27:47 That's right, you know just to encourage those out there 27:51 that may be frustrated and be thinking what music can I 27:55 listen to, there is good holy music that will draw you 27:59 closer to the Lord. 28:00 He desires that for you. 28:03 So it is our prayer that you will seek by your searching. 28:06 We are out of time. 28:08 So until next time, God bless. |
Revised 2014-12-17