- Well, we're gonna do it again,
00:00:00.80\00:00:01.70
ad I'm hoping for the last time.
00:00:01.70\00:00:03.67
If you've had
people bothering you
00:00:03.67\00:00:05.30
with all that really
weird flat earth stuff,
00:00:05.30\00:00:07.80
trying to tell
you the flat earth
00:00:07.80\00:00:09.14
is the historical
Christian position,
00:00:09.14\00:00:11.84
well, you might just
wanna see today's episode.
00:00:11.84\00:00:14.64
[smooth upbeat music]
00:00:15.84\00:00:19.08
Okay, I really,
really, really debated
00:00:35.80\00:00:38.83
whether or not we should
do this topic again today
00:00:38.83\00:00:41.07
because, well, I've
done it once in the past
00:00:41.07\00:00:43.64
and it kind of brought
some really interesting people
00:00:43.64\00:00:46.17
out of the woodwork.
00:00:46.17\00:00:47.78
Apparently it
actually made some people mad,
00:00:47.78\00:00:50.61
and more people
than you might think.
00:00:50.61\00:00:52.71
Sadly, there's enough of
what we're gonna talk about
00:00:52.71\00:00:55.22
going around right now
00:00:55.22\00:00:56.52
that I really think
it's becoming something
00:00:56.52\00:00:58.22
of a widespread problem.
00:00:58.22\00:01:00.26
It's not going away.
00:01:00.26\00:01:01.89
So I've decided to
address this one last time,
00:01:01.89\00:01:05.39
even though I
think it's pretty silly.
00:01:05.39\00:01:07.50
What am I talking about?
00:01:07.50\00:01:09.10
It's the flat
earth conspiracy people.
00:01:09.10\00:01:11.33
And honestly,
it's hard to believe
00:01:11.33\00:01:12.97
that we need to talk
about this in the 21st century.
00:01:12.97\00:01:16.24
There just seems to be
this relentless group of people
00:01:16.24\00:01:19.14
who think that they've come into
00:01:19.14\00:01:20.61
a very special
body of knowledge,
00:01:20.61\00:01:22.71
they've uncovered a
vast conspiracy by NASA
00:01:22.71\00:01:26.05
and every single government
agency on the face of the planet
00:01:26.05\00:01:29.92
to hide the fact that
the earth is, indeed, flat.
00:01:29.92\00:01:33.49
Now, just in case
you belong to that group,
00:01:33.49\00:01:35.92
let me just say that you're
gonna be wasting your time
00:01:35.92\00:01:38.46
by writing me letters
00:01:38.46\00:01:40.00
because I'm not
gonna answer them.
00:01:40.00\00:01:42.16
And I know some of you
are gonna do it anyway,
00:01:42.16\00:01:43.97
but I'm really not
gonna answer your letters.
00:01:43.97\00:01:46.40
And yes, I
absolutely believe in the Bible.
00:01:46.40\00:01:49.47
Anybody who watches
this program knows that I do.
00:01:49.47\00:01:52.77
And no, I don't have to give
any more answers after today.
00:01:52.77\00:01:56.14
I really don't.
00:01:56.14\00:01:57.75
All I'm going to do
today is point out something
00:01:57.75\00:02:00.28
I think is
really, really important.
00:02:00.28\00:02:03.65
You see, there's this
misguided idea going around
00:02:03.65\00:02:06.82
that the
medieval Christian Church
00:02:06.82\00:02:08.99
actually believed
the earth was flat,
00:02:08.99\00:02:11.43
that it took the likes
of Galileo, Copernicus,
00:02:11.43\00:02:14.46
and finally,
Columbus and Magellan
00:02:14.46\00:02:16.26
to disabuse the
Church of this idea.
00:02:16.26\00:02:19.03
And honestly, this is
important to think about
00:02:19.03\00:02:22.17
because I've discovered
a decidedly religious tone
00:02:22.17\00:02:26.01
with a lot of
these flat earth folks.
00:02:26.01\00:02:28.51
I mean, there really are secular
flat earth people as well,
00:02:28.51\00:02:31.41
but from where I
sit as a minister,
00:02:31.41\00:02:34.12
they don't seem to
get quite as worked up
00:02:34.12\00:02:36.18
as the religious folks.
00:02:36.18\00:02:37.75
The religious flat earth
believers appear to think
00:02:38.99\00:02:41.29
they've stumbled
across a great conspiracy
00:02:41.29\00:02:43.63
that must be exposed,
00:02:43.63\00:02:45.63
that your
salvation might be at stake
00:02:45.63\00:02:48.06
if you don't accept
what they're telling you.
00:02:48.06\00:02:50.50
I've had these people show
up at events where I'm speaking,
00:02:50.50\00:02:52.80
and they'll follow me around,
00:02:52.80\00:02:54.20
telling me that they're worried
00:02:54.20\00:02:55.34
about how God's
gonna deal with me
00:02:55.34\00:02:57.31
if I don't sit
down and listen to them.
00:02:57.31\00:02:59.91
And I can assure you,
according to this book,
00:02:59.91\00:03:02.94
my salvation has nothing to
do with the shape of the earth.
00:03:02.94\00:03:07.45
But now let's
get back to this idea
00:03:07.45\00:03:08.88
that the church
has historically taught
00:03:08.88\00:03:10.92
that the earth is flat
00:03:10.92\00:03:12.19
and only changed
that in recent history.
00:03:12.19\00:03:15.22
This is an idea that some
atheists love to promulgate
00:03:15.22\00:03:18.53
because it makes Christians
look a little ridiculous.
00:03:18.53\00:03:21.73
But wouldn't you know it?
00:03:21.73\00:03:23.10
It's not actually true.
00:03:23.10\00:03:24.83
The Church did not
teach that the earth is flat
00:03:24.83\00:03:27.94
and neither did
medieval Christian scholars.
00:03:27.94\00:03:30.74
We've known the
earth is a sphere
00:03:30.74\00:03:32.77
for a really, really long time.
00:03:32.77\00:03:35.78
Of course, that doesn't mean
that the idea of a flat earth
00:03:35.78\00:03:37.95
never showed up
among Christians at all,
00:03:37.95\00:03:40.35
because it did,
00:03:40.35\00:03:41.75
and it's happening again.
00:03:41.75\00:03:43.82
But today it's the
history of how this happened
00:03:43.82\00:03:47.12
that I want you to think about,
00:03:47.12\00:03:48.62
because it's not what you've
been told, not even close.
00:03:48.62\00:03:52.39
You really can find
ancient Christian writers
00:03:52.39\00:03:54.96
who promoted the
idea of a flat earth.
00:03:54.96\00:03:57.30
But here's the catch,
00:03:57.30\00:03:58.77
there were only two of them.
00:03:58.77\00:04:00.34
And until the 17 and 1800s,
00:04:00.34\00:04:02.77
the rest of Christianity
didn't take those guys seriously
00:04:02.77\00:04:06.11
on just about
anything they said.
00:04:06.11\00:04:08.11
And I'll tell you who
they were in just a moment.
00:04:08.11\00:04:11.31
But before I get to that,
00:04:11.31\00:04:12.95
let me introduce
you to two other guys
00:04:12.95\00:04:14.92
who were very popular speakers
back in the 19th century
00:04:14.92\00:04:17.62
because they
traveled the countryside
00:04:17.62\00:04:19.85
telling people that
science and the Bible
00:04:19.85\00:04:21.96
were irredeemably
opposed to each other.
00:04:21.96\00:04:24.93
Their names were
John William Draper
00:04:24.93\00:04:27.13
and Andrew Dickson White.
00:04:27.13\00:04:29.26
Back in 1874,
00:04:29.26\00:04:30.80
John William Draper
published a book called
00:04:30.80\00:04:33.40
a "History of the Conflict
Between Religion and Science."
00:04:33.40\00:04:37.01
It was a bit of a manifesto,
00:04:37.01\00:04:39.07
really, a polemic work
00:04:39.07\00:04:40.71
designed to ridicule the
intelligence of most Christians.
00:04:40.71\00:04:44.61
And because Draper had published
00:04:44.61\00:04:46.38
a very popular
history of science
00:04:46.38\00:04:48.35
before he put this book out,
00:04:48.35\00:04:50.09
and because he was a very
popular and gifted speaker,
00:04:50.09\00:04:53.66
a lot of people
took this work to heart.
00:04:53.66\00:04:56.32
Now, I'll give him
credit where credit is due.
00:04:56.32\00:04:58.96
He rightly pointed to
the rise of Constantine
00:04:58.96\00:05:02.46
and the marriage
of Church and State
00:05:02.46\00:05:03.80
as a key turning
point here in the West,
00:05:03.80\00:05:06.57
a point where the Church
began to prize political power
00:05:06.57\00:05:10.27
more than it did
preaching the gospel.
00:05:10.27\00:05:12.71
If you've been
watching this show,
00:05:12.71\00:05:13.94
you know I believe that's true.
00:05:13.94\00:05:15.84
The marriage of Church and
State back in the 4th century
00:05:15.84\00:05:18.21
was not a good thing
00:05:18.21\00:05:19.95
and led to some really
embarrassing episodes for the
00:05:19.95\00:05:23.65
Church. You know, like the
burning of heretics at the stake
00:05:23.65\00:05:26.39
and those kinds of things.
00:05:26.39\00:05:28.82
But then Mr. Draper
went one step further
00:05:28.82\00:05:31.29
and suggested that
the Church rejected
00:05:31.29\00:05:33.23
rationality and
science at the very same time.
00:05:33.23\00:05:37.30
Here's what he actually wrote.
00:05:37.30\00:05:39.13
"The antagonism we thus witness
between religion and science
00:05:39.13\00:05:43.10
"is the continuation of
a struggle that commenced
00:05:43.10\00:05:45.47
"when Christianity began
to attain political power."
00:05:45.47\00:05:49.64
Now, you'll notice that
this is a popular sentiment
00:05:49.64\00:05:52.68
to this day,
00:05:52.68\00:05:54.08
much to the chagrin of a
growing number of scientists
00:05:54.08\00:05:57.25
who now realize that
what you and I just read
00:05:57.25\00:06:00.26
isn't actually true.
00:06:00.26\00:06:02.12
The other guilty
party in this story
00:06:02.12\00:06:03.66
was the guy by the name
of Andrew Dickson White,
00:06:03.66\00:06:06.23
who was also a
brilliant public speaker,
00:06:06.23\00:06:08.63
who never really had much
trouble attracting an audience.
00:06:08.63\00:06:12.43
When the American
Civil War broke out,
00:06:12.43\00:06:14.60
his speaking tours
were no longer possible,
00:06:14.60\00:06:17.54
so he ended up
directing his efforts
00:06:17.54\00:06:19.24
to the political
scene in New York State.
00:06:19.24\00:06:22.74
But he really, really,
really missed his years
00:06:22.74\00:06:26.11
of study and research.
00:06:26.11\00:06:27.85
And so he enlisted the
help of a really good friend,
00:06:27.85\00:06:30.45
the Quaker Ezra Cornell,
00:06:30.45\00:06:32.92
and the two of them founded
a new university together,
00:06:32.92\00:06:36.36
and you probably
guessed which university it is.
00:06:36.36\00:06:39.06
It's Cornell University.
00:06:39.06\00:06:41.46
The idea behind this new school
00:06:41.46\00:06:43.37
was that people who taught
there would be completely free
00:06:43.37\00:06:46.77
of all external
influences, including religion.
00:06:46.77\00:06:51.07
Now, a lot of
people found that idea
00:06:51.07\00:06:52.84
kind of repulsive in that day,
00:06:52.84\00:06:55.14
even dangerous,
00:06:55.14\00:06:56.61
because they
feared what might happen
00:06:56.61\00:06:58.35
if their kids got an
exclusively secular education.
00:06:58.35\00:07:02.32
And so these two guys
got a lot of opposition.
00:07:02.32\00:07:05.55
In the end, the opposition
made Mr. White a little bitter,
00:07:05.55\00:07:08.99
so he composed a
brand new lecture series
00:07:08.99\00:07:11.39
he called "The
Battlefields of Science."
00:07:11.39\00:07:14.83
The story he told?
00:07:14.83\00:07:16.26
I'm sure you can guess it.
00:07:16.26\00:07:17.73
He said religion is the
absolute opposite of science.
00:07:17.73\00:07:20.50
In fact, it's
an enemy to science
00:07:20.50\00:07:22.87
and a problem that
had to be dealt with.
00:07:22.87\00:07:25.54
The "New York Daily Tribune"
printed that original lecture,
00:07:25.54\00:07:29.41
and the rest is history.
00:07:29.41\00:07:31.05
By 1896, Andrew White had
published a really big book
00:07:31.05\00:07:34.65
called "A History of
the Warfare of Science
00:07:34.65\00:07:37.55
"with Theology in Christendom."
00:07:37.55\00:07:40.39
He openly told
everybody that it was a response
00:07:40.39\00:07:43.19
to what happened
when they founded Cornell.
00:07:43.19\00:07:46.26
"I tried to be nice," he said,
00:07:46.26\00:07:48.06
"but now I'm
gonna play offense."
00:07:48.06\00:07:50.07
Both Draper and White
insisted that only a simpleton
00:07:51.40\00:07:54.37
would continue to believe
in the words of the Bible.
00:07:54.37\00:07:57.44
And that's an idea you'll
still find running rampant
00:07:57.44\00:08:00.64
on the battlefield
of modern social media.
00:08:00.64\00:08:03.41
I'm sure you've seen some
of these people in their posts,
00:08:03.41\00:08:05.85
"Oh, believe in
fairytales all you want,
00:08:05.85\00:08:08.02
"but I'm gonna be dedicated
to reason and science."
00:08:08.02\00:08:11.99
So, what would you guess
00:08:11.99\00:08:14.46
would be one of
the biggest points
00:08:14.46\00:08:15.96
that Draper and White presented
in these books of theirs?
00:08:15.96\00:08:19.36
"The Church," they said,
00:08:19.36\00:08:20.63
"has historically
taught that the earth is flat,
00:08:20.63\00:08:23.20
"and they even persecuted
00:08:23.20\00:08:24.80
the people who
said that it wasn't.
00:08:24.80\00:08:26.84
"The ancient Greeks,"
they said, "on the other hand,
00:08:26.84\00:08:29.47
"they were dedicated to science
00:08:29.47\00:08:31.47
"and they knew the
earth was a sphere,
00:08:31.47\00:08:33.94
"but the Church,
being steeped in ignorance,
00:08:33.94\00:08:36.04
"refused to accept that idea
00:08:36.04\00:08:37.48
"because the Bible
told them otherwise."
00:08:37.48\00:08:41.35
Today what these
guys were teaching
00:08:41.35\00:08:43.05
has come to be known
as the conflict thesis,
00:08:43.05\00:08:46.19
this idea that
science and Christianity
00:08:46.19\00:08:49.12
are at odds with each other.
00:08:49.12\00:08:50.99
To this day,
you'll see some skeptics
00:08:50.99\00:08:53.13
using that idea to
ridicule people of faith.
00:08:53.13\00:08:57.27
But there's a problem.
00:08:57.27\00:08:59.10
Either Draper and White
didn't know their history
00:08:59.10\00:09:02.47
or they were being dishonest,
00:09:02.47\00:09:04.87
because their theory doesn't
hold anywhere near the water
00:09:04.87\00:09:07.71
that some people think it does.
00:09:07.71\00:09:09.88
I mean, did the Church
really persecute Columbus
00:09:09.88\00:09:13.62
for saying the
Earth was a sphere?
00:09:13.62\00:09:15.68
Did the Church really
teach that the earth was flat?
00:09:15.68\00:09:19.19
The answer is absolutely not.
00:09:19.19\00:09:22.26
And as soon as we
take a really quick break,
00:09:22.26\00:09:24.53
I'll come back to tell
you what really happened
00:09:24.53\00:09:27.03
- [Narrator 1] Here
at The Voice of Prophecy,
00:09:30.53\00:09:31.93
we're committed to
creating top-quality programming
00:09:31.93\00:09:34.47
for the whole family.
00:09:34.47\00:09:35.90
Like our audio adventure
series, "Discovery Mountain."
00:09:35.90\00:09:39.01
"Discovery Mountain"
is a Bible-based program
00:09:39.01\00:09:41.61
for kids of all
ages and backgrounds.
00:09:41.61\00:09:43.91
Your family will enjoy
the faith-building stories
00:09:43.91\00:09:46.72
from this small
mountain summer camp and town.
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With 24 seasonal
episodes every year
00:09:49.55\00:09:52.09
and fresh content every week,
00:09:52.09\00:09:54.22
there's always a new
adventure just on the horizon.
00:09:54.22\00:09:57.46
- Here's a problem I find
00:10:00.06\00:10:01.36
when it comes to all
this flat earth stuff.
00:10:01.36\00:10:03.80
There's a handful of very
vocal, so-called believers
00:10:03.80\00:10:07.27
who take
advantage of social media
00:10:07.27\00:10:09.60
to publish their
misguided notions.
00:10:09.60\00:10:12.04
What they do is insist
that the Christian faith
00:10:12.04\00:10:14.28
has always taught a flat
earth until recent history,
00:10:14.28\00:10:17.98
but then,
00:10:17.98\00:10:19.48
in order to accommodate
the evolutionists, they teach,
00:10:19.48\00:10:22.02
the church went apostate and
agreed that the earth is round,
00:10:22.02\00:10:25.05
or it's always some
kind of variation of that.
00:10:25.05\00:10:27.92
The problem is,
none of that's true.
00:10:27.92\00:10:30.23
The idea that the
Church believed in a flat earth
00:10:30.23\00:10:32.66
was propagated by the
likes of Draper and White.
00:10:32.66\00:10:36.60
But where did
they get that idea?
00:10:36.60\00:10:38.63
Well, they got it
from two ancient Christians
00:10:38.63\00:10:40.44
named Lactantius and Cosmas,
00:10:40.44\00:10:42.34
who were converts from paganism.
00:10:42.34\00:10:44.94
What the skeptics will tell you
00:10:44.94\00:10:46.51
is that all the Church Fathers
believed in a flat earth.
00:10:46.51\00:10:49.74
But again, that's not true.
00:10:49.74\00:10:51.75
Go ahead and read all you
want from the early Christians
00:10:51.75\00:10:54.32
about the shape of the earth,
00:10:54.32\00:10:55.78
and you'll only find two
people who actually said that,
00:10:55.78\00:10:59.12
Lactantius and Cosmas.
00:10:59.12\00:11:01.56
Now, if you're watching
the video version of this,
00:11:01.56\00:11:03.69
I didn't have a
picture of Cosmas,
00:11:03.69\00:11:05.19
so this is just one of his
maps I've put up on the screen.
00:11:05.19\00:11:08.30
I'm guessing that, before today,
00:11:09.13\00:11:11.27
most of you have never
even heard of these two guys.
00:11:11.27\00:11:14.77
Do you know why?
00:11:14.77\00:11:16.37
It's because they were
essentially theological
00:11:16.37\00:11:19.17
nobodies. Nobody
believed what they said
00:11:19.17\00:11:21.44
on a massive range of subjects.
00:11:21.44\00:11:23.78
They were not influential.
00:11:23.78\00:11:26.82
But now listen to
what Mr. White said.
00:11:26.82\00:11:29.95
He wrote about the
church and a flat earth.
00:11:29.95\00:11:32.25
And he writes,
00:11:32.25\00:11:33.52
"Some of the
foremost men in the Church
00:11:33.52\00:11:36.09
"devoted themselves to
buttressing the model with new
00:11:36.09\00:11:39.29
texts "and throwing
about it new outworks
00:11:39.29\00:11:41.26
"of theological reasoning;
00:11:41.26\00:11:42.93
"the great body of the faithful
00:11:42.93\00:11:44.53
"considered it a direct
gift from the Almighty."
00:11:44.53\00:11:48.20
I'm sorry, the
foremost men of the church?
00:11:49.40\00:11:51.97
Not even close.
00:11:51.97\00:11:53.27
Lactantius and
Cosmas were anything but.
00:11:53.27\00:11:56.51
Let me read you
something about Lactantius
00:11:56.51\00:11:58.38
by a professor of history
named Jeffrey Russell, who said,
00:11:58.38\00:12:01.22
"His views
eventually led to his works
00:12:01.22\00:12:03.45
"being condemned as
heretical after his death."
00:12:03.45\00:12:07.36
Now, Lactantius died in AD 325,
00:12:07.36\00:12:09.99
which you'll note is
a very long time ago.
00:12:09.99\00:12:13.19
He continues, "He
maintained, for example,
00:12:13.19\00:12:15.43
"that God wills evil
as a logical necessity
00:12:15.43\00:12:18.47
"and that Christ and
Satan are metaphorical twins,
00:12:18.47\00:12:21.04
"two angels, two
spirits, one good and one evil,
00:12:21.04\00:12:24.27
"both created by God."
00:12:24.27\00:12:26.74
In other words,
Lactantius was a heretic.
00:12:26.74\00:12:30.21
So it seems a little weird
00:12:30.21\00:12:31.48
that Draper and
White would insist
00:12:31.48\00:12:33.15
that he was some kind
of foremost thought leader
00:12:33.15\00:12:35.42
in the early church.
00:12:35.42\00:12:36.79
He wasn't.
00:12:36.79\00:12:38.25
But of course,
what about Mr. Cosmas,
00:12:38.25\00:12:39.89
the other flat earth Christian
from the very ancient past?
00:12:39.89\00:12:43.02
Well, you get the same story.
00:12:43.02\00:12:44.43
People liked him at the
time because he was eloquent,
00:12:44.43\00:12:47.40
but you will search high and low
00:12:47.40\00:12:49.00
for the medieval
scholar who took him seriously.
00:12:49.00\00:12:52.87
Both of these guys
were theological nobodies.
00:12:52.87\00:12:55.50
And wouldn't you know it?
00:12:55.50\00:12:56.81
If you go back and
read the real influencers
00:12:56.81\00:12:58.57
of the early Church,
00:12:58.57\00:12:59.54
guys like Augustine or Aquinas,
00:12:59.54\00:13:01.61
you will not find them
talking about a flat earth.
00:13:01.61\00:13:04.18
They said it was round.
00:13:04.18\00:13:06.58
You know why?
00:13:06.58\00:13:08.12
It's because the Christian
churches always believed that.
00:13:08.12\00:13:11.29
But just in case
you're not convinced,
00:13:11.29\00:13:12.72
let me read you
just a little bit more,
00:13:12.72\00:13:14.49
this time from the
work of Allan Chapman,
00:13:14.49\00:13:17.03
a historian in Oxford.
00:13:17.03\00:13:18.76
This comes from his
book "Slaying the Dragons."
00:13:18.76\00:13:21.20
He says, "Let us be
clear about one thing:
00:13:21.20\00:13:24.27
"no medieval
scholar of any worth
00:13:24.27\00:13:26.33
"thought that
the earth was flat.
00:13:26.33\00:13:28.14
"One needs only to read
the astronomical literature
00:13:28.14\00:13:30.57
"of the Middle Ages
00:13:30.57\00:13:32.01
"to realize that the
spherical nature of the earth,
00:13:32.01\00:13:34.18
"about 6,000 or
8,000 miles across,
00:13:34.18\00:13:36.91
"was standard knowledge,
00:13:36.91\00:13:38.91
"and taught to university
students from Salamanca to
00:13:38.91\00:13:42.88
Prague. "Inherited in unbroken
succession from the Greeks, in
00:13:42.88\00:13:46.25
fact, "taught by
the Venerable Bede
00:13:46.25\00:13:47.72
"to the young monks of
Jarrow Abbey in AD 710,
00:13:47.72\00:13:50.63
"and encapsulated in John of
the Holy Wood's Latin textbook
00:13:50.63\00:13:55.20
"'De Sphaera Mundi, On
the Sphere of the Earth'
00:13:55.20\00:13:58.57
"of around 1240."
00:13:58.57\00:14:00.44
But what about that old story
00:14:01.40\00:14:02.84
about how the Church
persecuted Christopher Columbus
00:14:02.84\00:14:05.11
for saying the earth was round?
00:14:05.11\00:14:07.31
Well, remember, we just
discovered that the spherical
00:14:07.31\00:14:10.58
earth was being taught to
university students in Salamanca
00:14:10.58\00:14:13.98
in the medieval period.
00:14:13.98\00:14:15.65
And the legend goes that
it was a council at Salamanca
00:14:15.65\00:14:18.95
that condemned Mr. Columbus
for his round earth beliefs.
00:14:18.95\00:14:23.49
So, how could that be?
00:14:23.49\00:14:24.66
Well, it didn't happen.
00:14:25.69\00:14:27.66
What the Church
disputed with Columbus
00:14:27.66\00:14:29.50
was the size of the
globe, not the shape.
00:14:29.50\00:14:32.13
The Greek
mathematician Eratosthenes
00:14:32.13\00:14:34.40
had already calculated
the circumference of the earth
00:14:34.40\00:14:37.11
in its famous Egyptian
experiment back in 240 BC.
00:14:37.11\00:14:41.14
He noticed that when
he looked down a well
00:14:41.14\00:14:43.11
in the city of Cyrene at 12
noon on the summer solstice,
00:14:43.11\00:14:47.62
his head completely blocked
the reflection of the sun.
00:14:47.62\00:14:50.85
That meant that the
sun was directly overhead.
00:14:50.85\00:14:53.86
So then he put a
stick in the ground at noon
00:14:53.86\00:14:56.06
on the summer
solstice in Alexandria,
00:14:56.06\00:14:57.99
about 5,000 stadia to the north.
00:14:57.99\00:15:01.63
His stick now cast a shadow
00:15:01.63\00:15:03.80
because the sun
was to the south,
00:15:03.80\00:15:05.57
and not directly overhead.
00:15:05.57\00:15:07.70
And the angle of the shadow
was seven degrees, 12 minutes,
00:15:07.70\00:15:11.07
which is 1/50 of a circle.
00:15:11.07\00:15:13.58
So he multiplied
5,000 stadia by 50
00:15:13.58\00:15:17.38
and came up with a
remarkably accurate number.
00:15:17.38\00:15:20.22
In fact, he actually
came within 100 miles
00:15:20.22\00:15:23.08
of the actual
circumference of the earth.
00:15:23.08\00:15:26.62
The problem that Columbus faced
00:15:26.62\00:15:28.22
had nothing to do
with a flat earth.
00:15:28.22\00:15:29.99
His problem was that he was
using a different measurement.
00:15:29.99\00:15:32.83
We think it was one that
was calculated by Ptolemy,
00:15:32.83\00:15:35.90
and Ptolemy was wrong.
00:15:35.90\00:15:37.30
His number was too small.
00:15:37.30\00:15:39.30
So Columbus
figured the trip to Asia
00:15:39.30\00:15:41.44
was a lot shorter
than it really was.
00:15:41.44\00:15:44.64
That was what they were
arguing about at Salamanca.
00:15:44.64\00:15:47.51
It had nothing, nothing to
do with the shape of the earth.
00:15:47.51\00:15:51.28
So, where did we get the idea
00:15:52.11\00:15:53.62
that the Church believed
in a flat earth at that time?
00:15:53.62\00:15:56.35
Well, we got it from
an American novelist,
00:15:56.35\00:15:58.42
Washington Irving,
00:15:58.42\00:16:00.22
who wrote a fictionalized
account of Columbus back in
00:16:00.22\00:16:04.16
1828. And he wrote this,
00:16:04.16\00:16:05.69
"Columbus was assailed
with citations from the Bible
00:16:05.69\00:16:08.06
"and the testament:
00:16:08.06\00:16:09.36
"the book of
Genesis, the psalms of David,
00:16:09.36\00:16:11.23
"the Prophets, the
epistles and the gospels.
00:16:11.23\00:16:13.64
"To these were
added the expositions
00:16:13.64\00:16:15.50
"of various saints
and reverend commentators:
00:16:15.50\00:16:17.77
"St. Chrysostom
and St. Augustine,
00:16:17.77\00:16:19.97
"St. Jerome and St. Gregory,
St. Basil and Saint Ambrose."
00:16:19.97\00:16:24.65
You see, Irving
wanted us to think
00:16:24.65\00:16:26.55
that the Church was quoting
the ancient Church Fathers
00:16:26.55\00:16:29.18
to prove the earth was flat.
00:16:29.18\00:16:30.82
And in the novel,
00:16:30.82\00:16:32.59
when Columbus tries to refute
these guys, they mock him.
00:16:32.59\00:16:35.99
But again, none of
that ever happened.
00:16:35.99\00:16:38.56
Sometimes when you go
back and read history,
00:16:38.56\00:16:40.70
it can seem a little bland.
00:16:40.70\00:16:42.13
So maybe we can
forgive Mr. Irving
00:16:42.13\00:16:43.77
for trying to
spice it up a little bit,
00:16:43.77\00:16:46.17
except that his wrong
ideas kind of took root.
00:16:46.17\00:16:49.14
The problem today is that
even well-meaning Christians
00:16:49.14\00:16:51.74
are starting to buy this idea,
00:16:51.74\00:16:53.24
and they insist
that the flat earth
00:16:53.24\00:16:54.98
was Christianity's
traditional position,
00:16:54.98\00:16:58.15
and it wasn't.
00:16:58.15\00:16:59.61
And in the process, these
people are giving skeptics
00:16:59.61\00:17:01.72
plenty of fuel for their fire
00:17:01.72\00:17:03.35
because they're
making the faith community
00:17:03.35\00:17:04.99
seem absolutely ridiculous.
00:17:04.99\00:17:08.32
I mean, let's
just think about this.
00:17:08.32\00:17:10.46
What would it take
to get the whole world
00:17:10.46\00:17:12.49
to tell the same scientific lie?
00:17:12.49\00:17:14.86
Every single scientist
at NASA, every politician,
00:17:14.86\00:17:17.57
every church leader, every
photographer, every astronomer,
00:17:17.57\00:17:20.87
absolutely everybody on
the earth has to cooperate.
00:17:20.87\00:17:25.21
If you've ever
tried to keep a secret,
00:17:25.21\00:17:26.64
you know how
preposterous that is.
00:17:26.64\00:17:28.98
And here's the ironic thing,
00:17:28.98\00:17:30.58
flat earth
Christians will tell you
00:17:30.58\00:17:32.15
that they're trying
to defend the word of God
00:17:32.15\00:17:33.85
against the godless,
against the evolutionists.
00:17:33.85\00:17:36.58
And wouldn't you know it?
00:17:36.58\00:17:38.12
It was the skeptics,
guys like Draper and White,
00:17:38.12\00:17:40.92
who made that story
up in the first place
00:17:40.92\00:17:43.29
to discredit the
Church and defend Darwin.
00:17:43.29\00:17:46.80
"But Christians
really believed that, Shawn.
00:17:46.80\00:17:49.16
"The round earth is a new idea."
00:17:49.16\00:17:50.87
No, it's not, not even close.
00:17:50.87\00:17:53.37
And after we take
another really quick break,
00:17:53.37\00:17:55.54
I'll demonstrate that.
00:17:55.54\00:17:57.07
So enjoy your ride on this
very round ball we call home,
00:17:57.07\00:18:00.14
and I'll be
right back after this.
00:18:00.14\00:18:02.68
- [Narrator 2] Life
can throw a lot at us.
00:18:06.38\00:18:08.82
Sometimes we don't
have all the answers,
00:18:08.82\00:18:12.19
but that's where
the Bible comes in.
00:18:12.19\00:18:14.62
It's our guide to a
more fulfilling life.
00:18:14.62\00:18:16.96
Here at The Voice of Prophecy,
00:18:17.79\00:18:19.26
we've created the
"Discover Bible Guides"
00:18:19.26\00:18:21.40
to be your guide to the Bible.
00:18:21.40\00:18:23.00
They're designed to
be simple, easy to use,
00:18:23.00\00:18:25.47
and provide answers to many
of life's toughest questions,
00:18:25.47\00:18:28.47
and they're absolutely free.
00:18:28.47\00:18:30.51
So jump online
now or give us a call
00:18:30.51\00:18:32.87
and start your
journey of discovery.
00:18:32.87\00:18:35.58
- There are people out there
00:18:35.58\00:18:36.95
who want you to believe
that the Christian Church
00:18:36.95\00:18:38.48
actually thought
the earth was flat
00:18:38.48\00:18:39.95
up until
relatively recent times,
00:18:39.95\00:18:42.28
but honestly, these folks just
haven't done their homework.
00:18:42.28\00:18:46.42
You might remember
reading "Canterbury Tales"
00:18:46.42\00:18:48.52
by Geoffrey Chaucer
when you were in high school.
00:18:48.52\00:18:51.23
It's a collection of stories
00:18:51.23\00:18:52.49
told by
travelers to pass the time.
00:18:52.49\00:18:55.20
And here's a line you find
00:18:55.20\00:18:57.00
in the chapter called
"The Franklin's Tale."
00:18:57.00\00:18:59.80
"Aurelius with blisful
herte anon Answerde thus:
00:19:01.14\00:19:03.57
"'Fy on a thousand pound!
00:19:03.57\00:19:05.04
"'This wide world,
which that men say is round.'"
00:19:05.04\00:19:09.38
Wait a minute,
00:19:09.38\00:19:10.78
I thought these guys
believed the earth was flat.
00:19:10.78\00:19:12.65
This was written more
than 100 years before Columbus,
00:19:12.65\00:19:15.45
and nobody tried to
burn Chaucer at the stake
00:19:15.45\00:19:18.15
for writing that.
00:19:18.15\00:19:19.55
Now, here's the Venerable Bede,
00:19:19.55\00:19:20.86
who lived in the late
600s and early 700s AD,
00:19:20.86\00:19:24.53
and he's writing a textbook.
00:19:24.53\00:19:25.99
He said, "The cause of
the unequal length of the days
00:19:25.99\00:19:28.86
"is the globular
shape of the earth,
00:19:28.86\00:19:31.30
"for it is not without reason
that the Sacred Scriptures
00:19:31.30\00:19:33.87
"and secular letters
speak of the earth as an 'orb,'
00:19:33.87\00:19:36.91
"for it is a fact that the earth
00:19:36.91\00:19:38.37
"is placed in the
center of the universe
00:19:38.37\00:19:40.28
"not only in latitude,
00:19:40.28\00:19:41.98
"as if it were
round like a shield,
00:19:41.98\00:19:44.18
"but also in every direction,
like a playground ball,
00:19:44.18\00:19:47.08
"no matter what
way it is turned."
00:19:47.08\00:19:49.95
Now, that was a good
800 years before Columbus,
00:19:49.95\00:19:53.56
and you'll notice
how careful he is.
00:19:53.56\00:19:55.49
He says the earth is
not like a shield or a disc,
00:19:55.49\00:19:58.33
which is what the flat earth
people want you to believe,
00:19:58.33\00:20:00.83
that the Church used to teach.
00:20:00.83\00:20:03.40
But hundreds of years ago,
00:20:03.40\00:20:04.53
Bede was telling his students,
00:20:04.53\00:20:06.47
it's a sphere, it's a ball.
00:20:06.47\00:20:09.80
About all we can criticize there
00:20:09.80\00:20:11.77
is the way he places the earth
00:20:11.77\00:20:13.11
at the center of the universe,
00:20:13.11\00:20:14.61
which we did
believe at the time.
00:20:14.61\00:20:16.85
And you know
what never happened?
00:20:16.85\00:20:18.81
The Venerable Bede was
not condemned by the Church
00:20:18.81\00:20:21.02
for saying that.
00:20:21.02\00:20:22.05
You know why?
00:20:22.05\00:20:23.32
They all knew the earth
was a sphere, full stop.
00:20:23.32\00:20:26.96
Historically speaking,
there were only two exceptions,
00:20:26.96\00:20:30.23
Lactantius and Cosmas,
00:20:30.23\00:20:32.33
and nobody took them seriously.
00:20:32.33\00:20:34.50
And this idea that
Columbus's crew was terrified
00:20:34.50\00:20:37.07
they were gonna sail
off the edge of the earth?
00:20:37.07\00:20:39.40
Also nonsense.
00:20:39.40\00:20:41.30
I mean, they did
have two complaints.
00:20:41.30\00:20:43.20
One, that the trip was
taking longer than expected,
00:20:43.20\00:20:45.84
and two, it might be
impossible to get back home
00:20:45.84\00:20:48.54
because the winds were
going in the wrong direction.
00:20:48.54\00:20:51.31
But all those men knew
the earth was a sphere.
00:20:51.31\00:20:54.72
And I know right now
00:20:54.72\00:20:56.08
there are some
people watching or listening
00:20:56.08\00:20:57.62
who are getting mad,
00:20:57.62\00:20:58.85
and you think I'm a deceiver
00:20:58.85\00:21:00.39
or that I don't
believe the Bible.
00:21:00.39\00:21:02.36
I can assure you I believe it.
00:21:02.36\00:21:04.33
I spend hours in the
Bible every single day.
00:21:04.33\00:21:07.60
But just for the sake of
argument, let's say you're
00:21:07.60\00:21:10.80
right. Just for a
moment, the earth is a disc
00:21:10.80\00:21:12.83
covered by an
impermeable canopy.
00:21:12.83\00:21:15.27
The moon landings
were faked by Kubrick,
00:21:15.27\00:21:17.37
and we've never been to space,
00:21:17.37\00:21:19.11
and there's a massive conspiracy
keeping us from seeing
00:21:19.11\00:21:21.68
what's on the other side
of the ice wall in Antarctica.
00:21:21.68\00:21:24.95
Let's just say, for
the sake of argument,
00:21:24.95\00:21:26.92
all of that is true.
00:21:26.92\00:21:28.82
I still have a question for you.
00:21:28.82\00:21:30.69
So what?
00:21:30.69\00:21:32.22
I think I asked that the
last time we talked about this,
00:21:32.22\00:21:34.99
but, again, so what?
00:21:34.99\00:21:37.06
What difference does
this make to your daily life?
00:21:38.29\00:21:41.06
When you get up
tomorrow morning,
00:21:41.06\00:21:42.60
how is that knowledge
00:21:42.60\00:21:43.93
gonna make one bit of
difference in your life?
00:21:43.93\00:21:46.00
Are you Elon Musk?
00:21:46.00\00:21:47.90
Are you planning a space voyage?
00:21:47.90\00:21:49.64
Are you planning
to launch a satellite?
00:21:49.64\00:21:51.61
You're not.
00:21:51.61\00:21:53.14
All you're doing is making
Christians look like simpletons,
00:21:53.14\00:21:56.31
and you're playing right
into the hands of the people
00:21:56.31\00:21:58.81
who concocted this
idea in the first place
00:21:58.81\00:22:01.12
to discredit Christianity.
00:22:01.12\00:22:03.45
And you're violating a
principle that Paul taught
00:22:03.45\00:22:06.05
when he was dealing
with pointless debates.
00:22:06.05\00:22:08.69
Let me remind you of what
he said to his young protege,
00:22:08.69\00:22:12.13
pastor Timothy.
00:22:12.13\00:22:13.70
He wrote, "So
flee youthful passions
00:22:13.70\00:22:16.00
"and pursue righteousness,
faith, love, and peace,
00:22:16.00\00:22:18.60
"along with those who call
on the Lord from a pure heart.
00:22:18.60\00:22:21.97
"Have nothing to do with
foolish, ignorant controversies;
00:22:21.97\00:22:25.87
"You know that
they breed quarrels.
00:22:25.87\00:22:27.91
"And the Lord's servant
must not be quarrelsome."
00:22:27.91\00:22:32.15
Honestly, you're wasting
your life with this stuff.
00:22:32.15\00:22:35.72
And that applies equally to
all those conspiracy theories
00:22:35.72\00:22:38.92
that people seem to love,
00:22:38.92\00:22:40.42
especially right here in
the United States of America.
00:22:40.42\00:22:43.19
The gospel is
magnificent the way it is,
00:22:44.33\00:22:46.39
and it doesn't need your help
to make it more sensational,
00:22:46.39\00:22:48.96
so stop.
00:22:48.96\00:22:50.53
For the life of me, I can't
think of one good outcome here.
00:22:50.53\00:22:53.64
Instead of attracting
people to the scriptures,
00:22:53.64\00:22:56.07
you're playing into
the hands of the skeptics.
00:22:56.07\00:22:58.27
You're actually
promoting the idea
00:22:58.27\00:23:00.14
that faith and science
are opposed to each other,
00:23:00.14\00:23:02.31
and they're not.
00:23:02.31\00:23:03.88
In fact, you'll notice
00:23:03.88\00:23:04.98
that most of
what we've discovered
00:23:04.98\00:23:06.21
in the Scientific Revolution
00:23:06.21\00:23:07.65
happened at the hands of people
00:23:07.65\00:23:09.65
who believed that
the universe was orderly
00:23:09.65\00:23:12.05
because it was
created by an intelligent God.
00:23:12.05\00:23:15.52
I'll be right back after this.
00:23:15.52\00:23:17.69
- [Narrator 3] Dragons,
beasts, cryptic statues.
00:23:21.70\00:23:26.00
Bible prophecy can be
incredibly vivid and confusing.
00:23:26.00\00:23:30.57
If you've ever read
Daniel or Revelation
00:23:30.57\00:23:32.74
and come away
scratching your head,
00:23:32.74\00:23:34.51
you're not alone.
00:23:34.51\00:23:35.81
Our free "Focus
on Prophecy" guides
00:23:35.81\00:23:38.18
are designed to help you unlock
the mysteries of the Bible
00:23:38.18\00:23:41.02
and deepen your understanding
00:23:41.02\00:23:42.52
of God's plan for
you and our world.
00:23:42.52\00:23:45.05
Study online or
request them by mail,
00:23:45.05\00:23:47.52
and start bringing
prophecy into focus today.
00:23:47.52\00:23:51.03
- All right, I think, I
think my rant is finished,
00:23:51.03\00:23:54.76
and hopefully this
will be the last time
00:23:54.76\00:23:57.30
we ever have to
come to this topic.
00:23:57.30\00:23:59.57
I guess the reason
I'm on it again today
00:23:59.57\00:24:02.20
is because, for some reason,
00:24:02.20\00:24:04.01
for some reason I
appear to have been anointed
00:24:04.01\00:24:07.21
the apostle to
"The Twilight Zone."
00:24:07.21\00:24:09.58
I don't know what it is,
00:24:09.58\00:24:11.15
but I sure get a
lot of strange letters.
00:24:11.15\00:24:13.55
Here in America,
00:24:13.55\00:24:14.95
the number of people who
get into this kind of stuff
00:24:14.95\00:24:17.65
is kind of alarming.
00:24:17.65\00:24:19.42
But as a Christian, I
find it even more alarming
00:24:19.42\00:24:22.02
when it shows up
inside the Church.
00:24:22.02\00:24:24.86
Now, just in case you missed
00:24:24.86\00:24:26.19
the last time I
talked about this,
00:24:26.19\00:24:28.40
I looked at the supposed
proofs of Mr. Samuel Rowbotham.
00:24:28.40\00:24:32.33
So if you've
come across that name
00:24:32.33\00:24:34.14
during your internet travels,
00:24:34.14\00:24:36.04
you might wanna go back
00:24:36.04\00:24:37.21
and watch the
episode on what he said.
00:24:37.21\00:24:39.84
I'm sure you can find it
somewhere here on our website.
00:24:39.84\00:24:43.01
Because Mr. Rowbotham was
not only thoroughly debunked,
00:24:43.01\00:24:47.42
but his supporters
actually refused to pay a wager
00:24:47.42\00:24:50.05
they'd made in the papers
00:24:50.05\00:24:51.62
when someone
definitively proved him wrong.
00:24:51.62\00:24:55.26
So in that episode,
00:24:56.12\00:24:57.99
we dealt with the theory itself,
00:24:57.99\00:24:59.79
the theory of the flat earth.
00:24:59.79\00:25:01.53
And today we've
looked at some of the fallout
00:25:01.53\00:25:03.77
that's taking place in
the Christian community.
00:25:03.77\00:25:06.60
The people who preach
this stuff are quite literally
00:25:06.60\00:25:09.87
playing into the
hands of the skeptics.
00:25:09.87\00:25:13.07
They're underlining a story
00:25:13.07\00:25:14.84
that was made up by
skeptics about the Church
00:25:14.84\00:25:17.85
that has never been true.
00:25:17.85\00:25:20.75
I can't remember if I
brought this up last time,
00:25:20.75\00:25:23.45
but the whole
thing kind of reminds me
00:25:23.45\00:25:26.19
of that servant girl
that Paul had to rebuke.
00:25:26.19\00:25:29.16
You might remember the story.
00:25:29.16\00:25:30.49
She was a known
occultist, a possessed girl,
00:25:30.49\00:25:33.96
and she was
following Paul around town,
00:25:33.96\00:25:36.13
saying something
that was technically true.
00:25:36.13\00:25:39.57
"These men are
servants of the Most High God,
00:25:39.57\00:25:41.90
"who proclaim to you
the way of salvation."
00:25:41.90\00:25:45.31
So that was kind of true.
00:25:45.31\00:25:47.28
So, what's the problem with it?
00:25:47.28\00:25:49.11
Everybody knew what
she was, she was possessed.
00:25:49.11\00:25:52.55
And now she appeared to
be on the side of the gospel.
00:25:52.55\00:25:55.95
That's why Paul put an abrupt
stop to what she was doing.
00:25:55.95\00:25:59.95
So ask yourself,
00:26:00.86\00:26:02.62
have you become so possessed
00:26:02.62\00:26:04.86
by a meaningless
conspiracy theory
00:26:04.86\00:26:07.76
that you're busy doing
the same thing this girl was?
00:26:07.76\00:26:10.73
Maybe you're caught up
in some peripheral idea,
00:26:10.73\00:26:13.03
like the flat earth,
00:26:13.03\00:26:14.67
and you're using it to
try and convince people
00:26:14.67\00:26:17.84
that the Bible is
a reliable document.
00:26:17.84\00:26:21.21
Let me assure you today,
00:26:21.21\00:26:23.01
you are doing
precisely the opposite.
00:26:23.01\00:26:26.01
You're using
something that just ain't so
00:26:26.01\00:26:28.82
to try and make your point.
00:26:28.82\00:26:30.55
And believe me, it makes your
listeners think you're nuts.
00:26:30.55\00:26:34.99
I know that's
blunt, but it's true.
00:26:34.99\00:26:38.06
What you're doing
is driving people away,
00:26:38.06\00:26:39.83
making them think
that the Christian faith
00:26:39.83\00:26:41.43
is not
reasonable or intelligent.
00:26:41.43\00:26:43.47
And please, you have
got to stop doing this.
00:26:43.47\00:26:47.40
I mean, you go ahead, flip
through the pages of the Bible
00:26:47.40\00:26:50.07
and see if you can find
that place where we're told
00:26:50.07\00:26:52.74
that's what Jesus told the
Church to preach, flat earth.
00:26:52.74\00:26:57.45
I can promise
you, it's not there.
00:26:57.45\00:27:00.35
You know, a few years ago I
was visiting an Inuit village
00:27:01.78\00:27:04.12
up in the Arctic,
00:27:04.12\00:27:05.69
and I was sharing Bibles
with the people who lived there,
00:27:05.69\00:27:08.06
Bibles in the
Inuktitut language.
00:27:08.06\00:27:09.96
And when I was
walking through town,
00:27:09.96\00:27:11.63
I noticed
something kind of strange.
00:27:11.63\00:27:13.60
Their satellite dishes
were all pointed downward,
00:27:13.60\00:27:17.00
not parallel to the ground,
00:27:17.00\00:27:18.40
but actually pointing down.
00:27:18.40\00:27:19.53
Do you know why?
00:27:19.53\00:27:20.64
They're trying
to get the signals
00:27:20.64\00:27:21.87
that spill over the horizon
00:27:21.87\00:27:23.27
from the satellites
that orbit the planet
00:27:23.27\00:27:25.54
close to the equator.
00:27:25.54\00:27:27.41
And I suddenly smiled
as I thought about it,
00:27:27.41\00:27:29.28
because this signal, this show,
00:27:29.28\00:27:32.18
goes up there too on
those very satellites.
00:27:32.18\00:27:34.88
And what am I beaming up there?
00:27:34.88\00:27:36.72
The story of the Bible,
00:27:36.72\00:27:38.35
which does not
disagree with how this word
00:27:38.35\00:27:41.42
is getting up
there to the Arctic.
00:27:41.42\00:27:42.86
In fact, I've been teaching
the Bible over satellite
00:27:42.86\00:27:45.83
for a really long time now.
00:27:45.83\00:27:47.56
And once in a while
I go outside at night
00:27:47.56\00:27:49.73
and I watch those
satellites pass over my head,
00:27:49.73\00:27:52.40
and I thank God
that I live in a time
00:27:52.40\00:27:55.10
when those are available to me.
00:27:55.10\00:27:57.07
And now I hope I've
said my final piece.
00:27:57.07\00:27:59.64
Time to quit wasting our lives
on meaningless conspiracies,
00:27:59.64\00:28:03.65
because people
have real problems,
00:28:03.65\00:28:05.48
and the shape of the
planet isn't one of them.
00:28:05.48\00:28:07.82
Thanks for joining me.
00:28:07.82\00:28:09.22
You've been
watching "Authentic."
00:28:09.22\00:28:11.39
[smooth upbeat music]
00:28:12.59\00:28:15.82