- The way some
people tell the story,
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the devil works
for God, shoveling coal
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onto the fires of Hell to make
sure it never ever goes out.
00:00:05.90\00:00:09.97
So in other words, the devil
is actually working for God.
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So does that sound right to you?
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[gentle music]
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[gentle music continues]
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Welcome to another
world changing episode
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of "Authentic," brought
to you by the generous people
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who like to
keep this on the air.
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And I say that
it's world changing
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because I'd like to believe
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that it's going to
change somebody's world.
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Today we're going
back to a series I started
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after I heard a skeptic
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on TikTok pose questions
that she would like to ask God
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if she
discovered that He was real.
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And so far we've explored
just a few of her objections
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like the idea that God
has somehow been silent.
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And of course that proved
to be an unfounded accusation
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because after all,
Christianity is known
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as a revealed religion.
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It claims that God has
spoken through the pages
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of this book and
through the person of Christ.
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And of course after complaining
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that God hasn't told
her anything personally,
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she went on to complain
about the contents of the Bible
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or at least what she thought
was the contents of the Bible.
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So that's where
we're going today,
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to one of the most
misunderstood teachings
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of Western Christianity.
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In fact, it's so misunderstood
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that your average
Christian has no idea
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what the Bible actually says.
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And if you ask them to tell you,
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you're more than likely going
to get medieval superstition
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than you are
actual biblical content.
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And really that's a bit
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of a tragedy because it's
on this front in particular
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that God gets most of
His negative publicity.
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Publicity that isn't rooted
in anything God actually said.
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It's founded on stuff
that church people say.
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And of course the
subject we're talking
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about is the doctrine
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of eternal damnation
in the fires of hell.
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So let me read you what
this skeptic actually said
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so we can begin to unpack this.
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And remember,
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she's supposedly
addressing her questions to God.
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She says, "If You
knew that the vast majority
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of humans You
created would end up in hell,
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why did You create them?
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Why did You create hell?
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How is infinite justice
punishment for a finite crime?
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What is the point of
torturing someone in hell
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if they can never get
out of it and never learn?"
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You know something?
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While some of her
previous objections were not
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very well thought out,
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I'd have to say that this
objection makes a lot of sense.
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And she is by no means the
only person to ask this stuff,
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not by a long shot.
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I mean, in particular, I'm
thinking about Robert Ingersoll
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who was kind of
like the Richard Dawkins
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of the 19th century.
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He was nicknamed
'The Great Agnostic,
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a word that is
usually reserved for people
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with a much more,
well, modest approach
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to the subject of religion
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because agnostic
just means you don't know.
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But the stuff that
Ingersoll said goes
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way beyond not knowing.
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And he was famous
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for leveling some rather
brutal accusations against God.
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Like this one,
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dealing with the
doctrine of hell, where he said,
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"Against the heartlessness
of the Christian religion
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every grand and tender soul
should enter solemn protest.
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The God of Hell should be held
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in loathing,
contempt, and scorn.
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A God who threatens
eternal pain should be hated,
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not loved,
cursed, not worshiped.
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A heaven presided
over by such a God must be
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below the lowest hell.
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I want no part in any
heaven in which the saved,
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the ransomed and
redeemed will drown
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with shouts of joy
the cries and sobs of hell
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in which happiness
will forget misery,
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where the tears of the
lost only increase laughter
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and double bliss."
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Now let me just say this.
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If that's what the
Bible actually teaches,
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then I've got all
the sympathy in the world
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for Robert Ingersoll
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because he's kind of
making a really great point.
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It kind of sounds like a really
brutal and unforgiving God.
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But you know, I can't
join Ingersoll's protest
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because he's arguing
against medieval superstition
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and not what the Bible says.
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So maybe let me set
the table like this.
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Last season we
spent some time exploring
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where the Western
church got this idea
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that the devil is a half man,
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half goat creature
with red skin and horns.
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It's a concept that you won't
find anywhere in the Bible.
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I mean, just go
and try and find it.
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And as we peeled back the layers
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of history last
time we discovered
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that as the Christian
Franks pushed their way
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into the other
Germanic territories of Europe,
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the church in the
West spent a lot of time
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trying to create
harmony between pagan beliefs
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and the teachings of the Bible
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in order to convince my
ancestors to become Christians.
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And that wasn't an easy task
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because my ancestors
were well rank barbarians.
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This effort to
harmonize Christianity
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and pagan belief is the
reason we still have a lot
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of pagan fingerprints
on our culture to this day.
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Like the fact that
we still use the names
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of pagan gods as names
for the days of the week.
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And among all those pagan gods
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was a very ancient
deity known as Cernunnos,
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the God of the forest
and the God of hunting.
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He was also the God who
escorted you into the afterlife
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down into the underworld,
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kind of like
Charon, the guy who rode you
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over the Rivers
Styx in Greek mythology.
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Now, there was almost no way
the church could christianize
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this horned God
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and there was no way the pagans
were going to give him up.
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So in an effort to
persuade the pagans
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to abandon Cernunnos,
they identified him with Satan.
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And that's how we got the
horned version of Lucifer.
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Now if you missed that episode,
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you might wanna
find it on our website
00:06:26.95\00:06:28.98
voiceofprophecy.com, click
the Shows tab, click Authentic
00:06:28.98\00:06:34.06
and then look for a show
called, "Speak Of The Devil."
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That's voiceofprophecy.com,
00:06:37.49\00:06:39.59
click the Shows
tab, then click Authentic
00:06:39.59\00:06:42.56
and look for,
"Speak Of The Devil."
00:06:42.56\00:06:45.77
And maybe if you'd be so
kind, click on the Donate button
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while you're there
too to keep us going.
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So our modern concept of
the devil, it was borrowed
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from pagan mythology
and it's not in the Bible.
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And frankly, that's also
what happened when it came
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to our popular
conceptions of hell.
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I mean, just think
about the word, hell,
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and notice the picture
that pops into your head.
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It's a fiery cave somewhere deep
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beneath the surface of
the earth where the souls
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of the lost are being
tortured day after day
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after day throughout the
ceaseless ages of eternity.
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And of course in our
comic book version of Hell,
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the horn Devil with goat's
feet is running the place.
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But then take your
Bible and look for that.
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Find me that description
in the pages of this book.
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What you will be
able to find is a mention
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of fire at the end of the world.
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And you can find
descriptions of people
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who are lost but
it's not at all the same
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as the stories
we've been telling.
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Most of us unless you
happen to be Jewish came
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from a pagan background
in the rather recent past.
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In fact, in the
case of my tribe,
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the Friesians,
Christianity arrived
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in about the eighth century
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which is only about
12, 1,300 years ago.
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And unfortunately by that time,
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Christianity had already
undergone a significant degree
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of syncretism through
two significant channels.
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First, there was a fairly
large degree of Hellenistic
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or Greek thinking that made
its way into the Christian faith
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through the scholars
who worked in Alexandria
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because they were busy
trying to impress the Pagans
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with the deep philosophical
thoughts of the Bible.
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And most of these guys
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like Clement or
Origen were well-meaning,
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but they compromised just enough
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to burden Christian thinking
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with ideas that did not
come from Jesus or the apostles.
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But then something
happened in the fourth century
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that really
encouraged widespread syncretism
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between the pagan
worldview and Christianity.
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And I'll be right back after
this to tell you what that was.
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[gentle music]
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- [Advertiser] Dragons,
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- In the early fourth
century, there was this event
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that forever changed the
course of the Christian Church
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in the West.
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And of course I'm talking
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about the nominal
conversion of Constantine.
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I say it was nominal
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because he really
didn't change very much.
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He continued to
murder his own family members
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for political reasons,
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and he actually
stalled his own baptism
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until he was pretty
much on his own deathbed.
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But all that aside,
00:09:50.39\00:09:51.82
what happened is that
Constantine made Christianity
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the official
religion of the Roman Empire
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which meant two things.
00:09:57.86\00:09:59.53
One, the Roman persecution
00:09:59.53\00:10:01.53
against
Christians suddenly stopped.
00:10:01.53\00:10:04.17
And two, it
became incredibly trendy
00:10:04.17\00:10:07.20
for a while to
become a Christian.
00:10:07.20\00:10:09.74
And what that meant was
that lots of high ranking
00:10:09.74\00:10:12.64
Roman pagans suddenly
said they were Christians
00:10:12.64\00:10:16.34
but what they were doing
was trying to gain social favor.
00:10:16.34\00:10:19.28
I mean, if the
emperor is Christian,
00:10:19.28\00:10:21.52
it couldn't
possibly hurt your career
00:10:21.52\00:10:23.69
to join him in his religion.
00:10:23.69\00:10:25.49
So lots of people did.
00:10:25.49\00:10:27.36
Now, that's not to say
00:10:28.19\00:10:29.32
that Constantine
didn't do anything good
00:10:29.32\00:10:31.43
because in a lot
of ways his conversion
00:10:31.43\00:10:34.20
actually helped the church,
00:10:34.20\00:10:36.43
but it also created an
atmosphere ripe for compromise,
00:10:36.43\00:10:40.44
the blending of Pagan
and Christian beliefs.
00:10:40.44\00:10:44.11
And then of course
the Germanic tribe known
00:10:44.11\00:10:46.98
as the Franks converted
to Christianity beginning
00:10:46.98\00:10:49.94
with Clovis in
the sixth century.
00:10:49.94\00:10:52.38
And they literally
became the Pope's standing army
00:10:52.38\00:10:55.48
by the time we
get to guys like Pepin
00:10:55.48\00:10:57.79
or Charlemagne in the latter
part of the eighth century.
00:10:57.79\00:11:01.12
And what these guys
did unfortunately was force
00:11:01.12\00:11:04.73
their pagan neighbors to
adopt Christianity essentially
00:11:04.73\00:11:08.30
at the point of a sword.
00:11:08.30\00:11:10.70
So now people like the Saxons
00:11:10.70\00:11:12.90
and eventually the Vikings,
they also joined the ranks
00:11:12.90\00:11:16.04
of the Christian Church
sometimes for all the wrong
00:11:16.04\00:11:20.18
reasons. In fact, in some places
the Vikings adopted Christianity
00:11:20.18\00:11:24.21
up to a point just because
it was illegal for Christians
00:11:24.21\00:11:29.05
in the north of Germany
to do business with them.
00:11:29.05\00:11:32.12
So the church
created a special ritual.
00:11:32.12\00:11:35.02
We're not
exactly sure what it was
00:11:35.02\00:11:37.46
but they called
it Prima Signatio.
00:11:37.46\00:11:40.26
And it was the first step
00:11:40.26\00:11:41.60
toward joining
the Christian Church
00:11:41.60\00:11:43.23
without actually
requiring baptism.
00:11:43.23\00:11:46.00
A lot of scholars think
that it was simply making
00:11:46.00\00:11:48.17
these guys make
the sign of the cross
00:11:48.17\00:11:50.91
which suddenly made you a
legitimate business partner.
00:11:50.91\00:11:54.58
But in reality,
00:11:54.58\00:11:56.14
most of these people
still kept their pagan customs.
00:11:56.14\00:11:58.85
And over time the church simply
christianized those customs
00:11:58.85\00:12:02.32
and wove them into the
Christian belief system.
00:12:02.32\00:12:05.29
Now, sometimes it was completely
harmless, like the names
00:12:06.55\00:12:09.76
of the days of the
week, we're still using those
00:12:09.76\00:12:13.29
but other times it
created a real theological mess
00:12:13.29\00:12:16.67
like with the doctrine of hell.
00:12:16.67\00:12:19.00
The version that most people
talk about with the fiery caves
00:12:19.00\00:12:21.94
and the devil torturing people,
00:12:21.94\00:12:24.21
that honestly looks
more like pagan mythology
00:12:24.21\00:12:27.21
than it does the
teachings of the Bible.
00:12:27.21\00:12:29.81
But of course that's
not immediately obvious
00:12:29.81\00:12:32.28
to a lot of
people because, well,
00:12:32.28\00:12:34.45
the Bible really does
speak of a final judgment
00:12:34.45\00:12:37.02
on this planet and
it does mention fire
00:12:37.02\00:12:39.45
in conjunction with that.
00:12:39.45\00:12:41.19
In fact, some of the language
seems to underscore the idea
00:12:41.19\00:12:44.63
that it's everlasting torment
and that people will flip
00:12:44.63\00:12:48.40
and fry throughout the
ceaseless ages of eternity.
00:12:48.40\00:12:51.70
But here's what I wanna suggest.
00:12:51.70\00:12:53.80
I think we're reading
those passages with a great deal
00:12:53.80\00:12:56.40
of hindsight and we're
seeing our popular conception
00:12:56.40\00:12:59.57
of Hell in places where it
might not actually be there.
00:12:59.57\00:13:03.85
And I know I'm about to
tread on really thin ice
00:13:03.85\00:13:06.82
because there are a lot of
Christians who for some reason
00:13:06.82\00:13:10.05
really love the doctrine
of hell and they love the idea
00:13:10.05\00:13:14.19
that unbelievers are
going to burn for all eternity.
00:13:14.19\00:13:17.33
In fact, I remember
one guy I was talking to
00:13:17.33\00:13:19.43
about 30 years ago who
suddenly got out of his chair
00:13:19.43\00:13:22.00
and blurted out, "God's
gonna make those people suffer
00:13:22.00\00:13:24.77
and that makes me
wanna praise Him."
00:13:24.77\00:13:27.30
Honestly, it
left the room in a bit
00:13:27.30\00:13:28.94
of stunned silence because
he said it with such a tone
00:13:28.94\00:13:32.47
of vindictiveness that I think
00:13:32.47\00:13:34.04
even the most determined
hellfire and brimstone preacher
00:13:34.04\00:13:37.75
might've felt a
little bit uncomfortable.
00:13:37.75\00:13:39.91
So maybe let's start
there with the misguided notion
00:13:41.32\00:13:44.65
that God is eager to destroy us
00:13:44.65\00:13:46.32
because, well, it
doesn't make a lot of sense
00:13:46.32\00:13:49.46
when you see the
lengths to which God went
00:13:49.46\00:13:51.29
in order to save us.
00:13:51.29\00:13:53.09
The most famous
verse in the Bible says,
00:13:53.09\00:13:55.10
"For God so loved the world
00:13:55.10\00:13:57.83
that He gave his only
son, that whoever believes
00:13:57.83\00:14:00.50
in Him should not perish
but have everlasting life."
00:14:00.50\00:14:04.04
And a few chapters
later we find Jesus saying,
00:14:04.04\00:14:06.31
"Greater love
has no one than this,
00:14:06.31\00:14:08.91
that someone laid down
his life for his friends."
00:14:08.91\00:14:12.71
So this idea that God is eager
00:14:12.71\00:14:14.32
to get rid of us
doesn't make much sense.
00:14:14.32\00:14:17.62
The price He paid
to secure your place
00:14:17.62\00:14:20.32
in His kingdom is
so exorbitantly high
00:14:20.32\00:14:24.36
that you'd have to believe
00:14:24.36\00:14:25.59
that He wouldn't
be eager to lose you.
00:14:25.59\00:14:27.46
I mean, God is not
an unwise investor.
00:14:27.46\00:14:30.97
The fact is He's
moving heaven and earth
00:14:30.97\00:14:32.80
to get you into His kingdom
00:14:32.80\00:14:34.27
and that's not the behavior
00:14:34.27\00:14:36.04
of somebody who's
eager to torture you.
00:14:36.04\00:14:38.34
It doesn't add up.
00:14:38.34\00:14:40.91
And the way some
people talk about Hell,
00:14:40.91\00:14:43.68
you'd think that God's gonna
enjoy watching people writhe
00:14:43.68\00:14:46.25
the agony, that
He's some kind of sadist
00:14:46.25\00:14:48.85
who relishes pain and suffering.
00:14:48.85\00:14:51.92
But what you find in
the Bible is the opposite.
00:14:51.92\00:14:55.12
I mean, here, listen to
this from Ezekiel chapter 33
00:14:55.12\00:14:58.46
where God is really worried
that His people are going
00:14:58.46\00:15:01.36
off the rails and just listen
00:15:01.36\00:15:03.03
to the agony in His
voice where He says, well,
00:15:03.03\00:15:06.33
"'As I live
declares the Lord God,
00:15:06.33\00:15:09.10
I have no pleasure in
the death of the wicked
00:15:09.10\00:15:11.44
but that the wicked
turn from his way and live,
00:15:11.44\00:15:14.21
turn back, turn
back from your evil ways
00:15:14.21\00:15:16.54
for why will you die,
oh, house of Israel?'"
00:15:16.54\00:15:20.35
So right out of
the gate we can see
00:15:20.35\00:15:22.75
that some of the
basic assumptions we have
00:15:22.75\00:15:24.89
about the nature of Hell
are not founded on the Bible.
00:15:24.89\00:15:29.22
We've mixed pagan
beliefs about the underworld
00:15:29.22\00:15:31.49
with our biblical understanding
of what actually happens.
00:15:31.49\00:15:35.56
And the result has
been somewhat monstrous.
00:15:35.56\00:15:38.73
Now, just in case there's
somebody who's worried there
00:15:40.10\00:15:42.17
that I'm going to
prove to be a rank heretic,
00:15:42.17\00:15:44.57
let me be perfectly clear.
00:15:44.57\00:15:46.14
I do believe in the
doctrine of Hellfire.
00:15:46.14\00:15:48.41
I absolutely do, but
I also have no choice
00:15:48.41\00:15:52.38
but to base my understanding
00:15:52.38\00:15:53.95
of it on what the
scriptures actually say.
00:15:53.95\00:15:56.82
I think these days the world
of religion is confusing enough
00:15:56.82\00:15:59.75
without Christians
adding to the confusion.
00:15:59.75\00:16:02.92
And as a Christian, I
want to be absolutely certain
00:16:02.92\00:16:05.59
that what I believe is
founded on the scriptures.
00:16:05.59\00:16:09.26
Now there are
things I don't understand
00:16:09.26\00:16:12.33
but there are also
some areas where the weight
00:16:12.33\00:16:14.27
of biblical
evidence is so overwhelming
00:16:14.27\00:16:17.11
that I can rest assured
00:16:17.11\00:16:18.37
that I'm teaching what
Jesus Himself believed.
00:16:18.37\00:16:21.48
And this is one of those areas.
00:16:21.48\00:16:24.85
But to do this subject justice
00:16:24.85\00:16:26.85
and to give you a chance
to explore it for yourself,
00:16:26.85\00:16:29.82
I'm gonna slow way down
and maybe spend two shows
00:16:29.82\00:16:34.19
on this because
it's just that important.
00:16:34.19\00:16:38.16
And here's my challenge to you.
00:16:38.16\00:16:40.26
Never take my word for anything.
00:16:40.26\00:16:43.40
Check what I'm
saying against the Bible.
00:16:43.40\00:16:45.47
And if I'm wrong,
you stick with the Bible
00:16:45.47\00:16:48.50
and forget what I said.
00:16:48.50\00:16:50.21
I do not claim to be infallible
00:16:50.21\00:16:52.64
and I am anything but
error free on any subject.
00:16:52.64\00:16:56.61
So always take what any
minister says with a huge grain
00:16:56.61\00:17:00.28
of salt and then get a
Bible and do your homework.
00:17:00.28\00:17:03.55
There's enough confusion in
the world of religion right now
00:17:03.55\00:17:06.15
that you simply can't
afford to do otherwise.
00:17:06.15\00:17:09.56
And if what I'm about
to share with you is true,
00:17:09.56\00:17:12.19
then it will bear
up under scrutiny.
00:17:12.19\00:17:14.46
And I'm absolutely not
afraid to have you check
00:17:14.46\00:17:17.23
what I'm saying
against the Bible
00:17:17.23\00:17:19.70
because this book
is the final court
00:17:19.70\00:17:22.30
of appeal when it comes to
the teachings of Christianity.
00:17:22.30\00:17:24.84
In fact, it's the
only court of appeal.
00:17:24.84\00:17:28.81
So with that very important
disclaimer, let's get started.
00:17:28.81\00:17:32.71
I told you a moment ago
00:17:32.71\00:17:33.95
that I do believe in
the doctrine of Hell.
00:17:33.95\00:17:35.78
And that's because the
Bible clearly teaches it
00:17:35.78\00:17:38.52
but not the way that
many people think it does.
00:17:38.52\00:17:41.96
Here's what it actually
says in Revelation 20, verse 15.
00:17:41.96\00:17:46.03
"And if anyone's
name was not found written
00:17:46.03\00:17:48.23
in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire."
00:17:48.23\00:17:52.97
So in other words,
00:17:52.97\00:17:54.57
the Bible really
does draw a distinction
00:17:54.57\00:17:57.17
between the saved and the
lost, and it does not agree
00:17:57.17\00:18:00.88
with the modern
trend towards universalism,
00:18:00.88\00:18:03.35
this idea that well,
everybody makes it in the end.
00:18:03.35\00:18:07.08
In the Bible, the book of life
is a record of the redeemed.
00:18:07.08\00:18:11.35
And honestly given
the incredible lengths
00:18:11.35\00:18:13.69
to which God has
gone to secure your spot
00:18:13.69\00:18:16.19
in that book of
life, I can't imagine
00:18:16.19\00:18:18.56
why anybody
wouldn't want to be there.
00:18:18.56\00:18:21.16
But ultimately, God doesn't
force you into His kingdom.
00:18:21.16\00:18:23.87
That's not the way He is.
00:18:23.87\00:18:25.90
It was the way of
the medieval church
00:18:25.90\00:18:28.50
but it's not God's way.
00:18:28.50\00:18:30.44
So do I believe
in the fires of Hell?
00:18:30.44\00:18:32.51
Yep, I do.
00:18:32.51\00:18:34.04
But there's more to the story.
00:18:34.04\00:18:35.91
And right after we
take this quick break,
00:18:35.91\00:18:38.08
I'll show that to you.
00:18:38.08\00:18:39.15
[gentle music]
00:18:39.15\00:18:41.88
- [Announcer] Life
can throw a lot at us.
00:18:43.28\00:18:45.72
Sometimes we don't
have all the answers
00:18:45.72\00:18:48.29
but that's where
the Bible comes in.
00:18:49.36\00:18:51.53
It's our guide to a
more fulfilling life.
00:18:51.53\00:18:53.83
Here at The Voice of Prophecy,
00:18:54.60\00:18:56.13
we've created the
"Discover" Bible guides
00:18:56.13\00:18:58.30
to be your guide to the Bible.
00:18:58.30\00:18:59.90
They're designed to
be simple, easy to use
00:18:59.90\00:19:02.37
and provide answers to many
of life's toughest questions.
00:19:02.37\00:19:05.37
And they're absolutely free.
00:19:05.37\00:19:07.41
So jump online now
00:19:07.41\00:19:08.91
or give us a call and
start your journey of discovery.
00:19:08.91\00:19:12.05
- Now, if you
remember the questions raised
00:19:13.15\00:19:14.82
by my online skeptic,
one of them ran like this.
00:19:14.82\00:19:17.95
She said, "if You
knew that the vast majority
00:19:17.95\00:19:20.16
of humans You
created would end up in hell
00:19:20.16\00:19:22.62
why did You create them?
00:19:22.62\00:19:24.16
Why did You create Hell?"
00:19:24.16\00:19:26.13
And of course,
the implication is
00:19:26.13\00:19:27.66
that God created
Hell to torture us.
00:19:27.66\00:19:30.03
And when it
comes right down to it,
00:19:30.03\00:19:31.70
the way we as Christians
have taught this doctrine
00:19:31.70\00:19:34.07
over the centuries, you'd
think that God created Hell
00:19:34.07\00:19:36.57
to get even with
naughty children.
00:19:36.57\00:19:39.44
And while I don't
doubt there are some parents
00:19:39.44\00:19:41.61
who manage to secure a degree
of cooperation from their kids
00:19:41.61\00:19:45.28
by threatening them with
the prospect of eternal torment,
00:19:45.28\00:19:49.02
the way we've been
teaching this it's way off base.
00:19:49.02\00:19:52.75
Let me give you a good example
of what I'm talking about.
00:19:54.09\00:19:56.32
what I'm about to read
to you unbelievably comes
00:19:56.32\00:19:58.93
from a series of
books written for children
00:19:58.93\00:20:00.76
back in the 19th century.
00:20:00.76\00:20:02.50
And I'm sure the
author meant well
00:20:02.50\00:20:04.83
but the second book he wrote
was called "The Sight Of Hell,"
00:20:04.83\00:20:08.57
where he invites little kids
to join them on a tour of Hell.
00:20:08.57\00:20:12.97
Oddly enough the
author's last name was Furniss,
00:20:12.97\00:20:16.21
spelled differently
but still a little ironic.
00:20:16.21\00:20:19.35
So here's what he
wrote for little kids.
00:20:19.35\00:20:21.72
You might wanna
buckle your seatbelt.
00:20:21.72\00:20:23.69
The book says,
"Look into this prison.
00:20:23.69\00:20:25.99
In the middle of it,
there is a boy, a young man.
00:20:25.99\00:20:28.49
He is silent, despair is on him.
00:20:28.49\00:20:30.79
He stands straight up.
00:20:30.79\00:20:32.49
His eyes are burning
like two burning coals.
00:20:32.49\00:20:35.03
Two long flames
come out of his ears.
00:20:35.03\00:20:37.77
His breathing is difficult.
00:20:37.77\00:20:39.73
Sometimes he opens his mouth
00:20:39.73\00:20:41.14
and a breath of
blazing fire rolls out of it.
00:20:41.14\00:20:44.67
But listen, there's a sound
00:20:44.67\00:20:46.64
just like that
of a kettle boiling.
00:20:46.64\00:20:48.44
Is it really a kettle boiling?
00:20:48.44\00:20:50.88
No. Then what is it?
00:20:50.88\00:20:53.11
The blood is boiling in
the scalded veins of that boy.
00:20:53.11\00:20:55.95
The brain is boiling
and bubbling in his head.
00:20:55.95\00:20:58.55
The marrow is
boiling in his bones."
00:20:58.55\00:21:02.26
Now that is pretty brutal.
00:21:02.26\00:21:04.66
And I've got to think
that even the most hardened
00:21:04.66\00:21:06.46
turn or burn preacher's
gonna have a problem with that.
00:21:06.46\00:21:09.86
And honestly, this is the stuff
00:21:09.86\00:21:12.70
that the
skeptics are responding to
00:21:12.70\00:21:14.37
because from where they sit,
00:21:14.37\00:21:16.64
there's no way you can reconcile
00:21:16.64\00:21:18.21
that kind of writing with
the notion of a loving God.
00:21:18.21\00:21:21.58
Now, to be sure, a lot of
people have a rather warped idea
00:21:21.58\00:21:24.58
of what love is supposed to be.
00:21:24.58\00:21:26.25
And the Bible's concept
00:21:26.25\00:21:27.92
of love is not the
sloppy sentimentalism
00:21:27.92\00:21:30.42
of the Victorian period.
00:21:30.42\00:21:32.25
But even then, how do
you reconcile the idea
00:21:33.39\00:21:35.86
of love and a God
who creates a place
00:21:35.86\00:21:38.19
to torture
naughty children forever
00:21:38.19\00:21:40.56
and ever and
ever without any end?
00:21:40.56\00:21:43.33
That was really the question
my online skeptic was asking.
00:21:43.33\00:21:47.17
Why would God make Hell for us?
00:21:47.17\00:21:49.50
And the biblical
answer is He didn't.
00:21:49.50\00:21:52.51
I know Pat Benatar used
to sing Hell is for children,
00:21:52.51\00:21:56.11
but it isn't, and I
know she was singing
00:21:56.11\00:21:57.81
about something else,
I'm taking it outta context
00:21:57.81\00:22:00.32
but I just had to
slip that in somehow.
00:22:00.32\00:22:03.79
What about this idea that
God created Hell to torture us?
00:22:03.79\00:22:07.52
Well, listen to what
the Bible actually says.
00:22:07.52\00:22:10.29
And listen very carefully.
00:22:10.29\00:22:12.53
These are the words
of Jesus in Matthew 25.
00:22:12.53\00:22:16.06
"Then he will say
to those on his left,
00:22:16.06\00:22:18.20
'Depart from me you curse it
into the eternal fire prepared
00:22:18.20\00:22:22.10
for the devil and his angels.'"
00:22:22.10\00:22:25.11
Now wait a
minute, prepared for who?
00:22:25.11\00:22:27.84
The devil and his angels.
00:22:27.84\00:22:30.05
The truth is that not one
human being was ever supposed
00:22:30.05\00:22:33.15
to be in hell.
00:22:33.15\00:22:34.62
The way the Bible tells
the story in Revelation 12,
00:22:34.62\00:22:37.85
the dragon or the
devil leads one third
00:22:37.85\00:22:40.39
of the angels in a
rebellion against God.
00:22:40.39\00:22:43.12
And what Jesus
says in Matthew 25 is
00:22:43.12\00:22:45.89
that the fires of Hell
were designed for them.
00:22:45.89\00:22:49.20
The only problem is that a lot
00:22:49.20\00:22:51.00
of people seem determined
00:22:51.00\00:22:52.17
to follow those fallen angels
00:22:52.17\00:22:53.80
all the way to
their ultimate destination
00:22:53.80\00:22:56.40
which is how we end
up in the same place.
00:22:56.40\00:22:59.64
But the truth is, it
wasn't designed for us.
00:23:00.84\00:23:03.51
So it's not as if God,
when He created the world,
00:23:03.51\00:23:05.91
created an eternal
torture chamber for bad people.
00:23:05.91\00:23:09.72
That's how the
skeptics talk about it.
00:23:09.72\00:23:11.95
Sadly, it's also the way
00:23:11.95\00:23:13.66
that a lot of
Christians talk about it.
00:23:13.66\00:23:15.39
But biblically, try and find it.
00:23:15.39\00:23:18.43
Now I'm really
taking my time with this
00:23:18.43\00:23:20.20
and we're going to spread
it over more than one show
00:23:20.20\00:23:22.13
because this is
so very important.
00:23:22.13\00:23:24.80
In fact, I think this
might be the number one grudge
00:23:24.80\00:23:27.44
that a lot of
people hold against God.
00:23:27.44\00:23:30.21
And what my internet skeptic
asked as a valid question
00:23:30.21\00:23:34.01
why would God create a
place to torture us forever?
00:23:34.01\00:23:37.11
And what sense would it
make to put people there
00:23:37.11\00:23:40.18
when there's no chance
00:23:40.18\00:23:41.42
of learning your
lesson or changing your mind?
00:23:41.42\00:23:43.79
That's a good question
00:23:43.79\00:23:45.52
and I wanna make
sure that we address it.
00:23:45.52\00:23:48.86
And when it's all said
and done, there's a chance
00:23:48.86\00:23:50.93
that you might still not
believe in the God of the Bible
00:23:50.93\00:23:53.70
but at the very
least, you owe it to yourself
00:23:53.70\00:23:56.53
to make sure you're
actually critiquing the Bible
00:23:56.53\00:24:00.07
and not a bunch
of medieval folklore.
00:24:00.07\00:24:02.37
And if you're a
Christian, I wanna challenge you
00:24:02.37\00:24:04.94
to make sure you absolutely
know what the Bible says
00:24:04.94\00:24:08.34
so you don't find yourself
repeating medieval mythology
00:24:08.34\00:24:12.21
and unwittingly adding to the
massive pile of misconceptions
00:24:12.21\00:24:16.08
about God that have
kept people away from church.
00:24:16.08\00:24:19.99
But right now, I've
gotta take a really quick break
00:24:19.99\00:24:22.82
so I'll be
right back after this.
00:24:22.82\00:24:25.26
[gentle music]
00:24:25.26\00:24:27.96
- [Advertiser]
There is a place so still,
00:24:29.20\00:24:32.10
[gentle music]
00:24:32.10\00:24:34.84
you can almost
hear your imagination.
00:24:35.94\00:24:39.17
[gentle music continues]
00:24:39.17\00:24:42.68
So free,
00:24:46.51\00:24:47.92
your spirits can soar.
00:24:50.29\00:24:52.39
So vast,
00:24:56.02\00:24:57.36
it needs to be explored.
00:24:59.66\00:25:01.33
[gentle music continues]
00:25:01.33\00:25:04.80
So high,
00:25:10.11\00:25:10.97
you can touch the clouds.
00:25:13.38\00:25:15.64
A place,
00:25:18.11\00:25:19.01
called Discovery Mountain.
00:25:21.55\00:25:23.49
- You know the way I
understand what happened
00:25:29.79\00:25:31.59
to Robert Ingersoll, his hatred
for God had something to do
00:25:31.59\00:25:34.63
with his pastor dad and the
way his dad talked about Hell.
00:25:34.63\00:25:38.67
It's entirely possible
the story has been stretched
00:25:38.67\00:25:41.24
a little bit, and it
might even be urban legend
00:25:41.24\00:25:43.51
but apparently one day
little Robert's dad got mad
00:25:43.51\00:25:47.14
about something and
sat him down to talk
00:25:47.14\00:25:49.04
about the terrible
consequences of sin.
00:25:49.04\00:25:51.88
"Look, if you keep doing
things like that," his Dad said
00:25:51.88\00:25:54.48
"God's gonna send
you to the fires of Hell
00:25:54.48\00:25:56.45
where you're gonna burn
forever, without any mercy,
00:25:56.45\00:25:59.09
without any end."
00:25:59.09\00:26:00.92
To which Robert
Ingersoll replied,
00:26:00.92\00:26:02.52
"Well, if that's what God
is like, then I hate Him."
00:26:02.52\00:26:07.13
Now, of course, I got that
story from another preacher
00:26:07.13\00:26:09.50
and it might
not actually be true
00:26:09.50\00:26:11.60
but it bears repeating because
it represents the thinking
00:26:11.60\00:26:14.10
of an awful lot of people.
00:26:14.10\00:26:16.30
What kind of sadistic God says,
00:26:16.30\00:26:18.41
"Do things my way
or I'll torture you?"
00:26:18.41\00:26:21.81
It's a valid question, and
it's one I believe I can answer
00:26:21.81\00:26:25.11
if you'll give me the
benefit of a couple of shows.
00:26:25.11\00:26:27.48
Because while there
really is a biblical answer,
00:26:27.48\00:26:30.99
we're gonna have to do
a lot of work to find it.
00:26:30.99\00:26:33.46
So be patient, do
yourself a favor and commit
00:26:33.46\00:26:36.42
to watching the other episodes
that deal with this subject.
00:26:36.42\00:26:40.16
So here's what
we've established so far.
00:26:40.16\00:26:42.93
First off, the Bible makes it
clear that God hates suffering
00:26:42.93\00:26:46.17
and He hates the
thought of losing you
00:26:46.17\00:26:48.20
especially after paying
such a high price to save you.
00:26:48.20\00:26:52.04
There is no
sadism, no cruel enjoyment
00:26:52.04\00:26:54.81
of pain on the part
of God or the Bible.
00:26:54.81\00:26:57.71
It's an I
imported idea that came
00:26:57.71\00:26:59.28
from sources other
than the scriptures.
00:26:59.28\00:27:02.12
Secondly, we saw that
hellfire is quite real
00:27:02.12\00:27:05.05
and it's tied to
the way that God deals
00:27:05.05\00:27:06.79
with people who do not wish
to be a part of His kingdom.
00:27:06.79\00:27:09.82
That much is crystal clear
from Revelation 20, verse 15.
00:27:09.82\00:27:13.86
But then we also saw
that hellfire was never part
00:27:15.20\00:27:17.23
of God's original
plan for the human race.
00:27:17.23\00:27:20.04
It was designed
for fallen angels.
00:27:20.04\00:27:22.80
And the only way
human beings get there
00:27:22.80\00:27:25.91
is to follow those
wicked angels to their fate.
00:27:25.91\00:27:29.94
Now, all of that, that's
just the tip of the iceberg.
00:27:29.94\00:27:33.11
There's so much more
that we're going to unpack
00:27:33.11\00:27:35.88
from the pages of the Bible,
and you're gonna have to wait
00:27:35.88\00:27:38.59
until next week to
get the rest of the story.
00:27:38.59\00:27:41.86
In the meantime, head on
over to voiceofprophecy.com.
00:27:41.86\00:27:45.69
Look at the
Show tab and catch up
00:27:45.69\00:27:47.86
on some of the other
programs we've been offering.
00:27:47.86\00:27:49.80
Maybe look for the
"Speak Of The Devil" program
00:27:49.80\00:27:52.30
for a little more
background on this subject.
00:27:52.30\00:27:55.07
And while you're there,
consider keeping us on the air.
00:27:55.07\00:27:57.84
Just push that big
orange Donate button
00:27:57.84\00:28:00.64
at the top right
hand of the page.
00:28:00.64\00:28:03.35
Thanks for joining me.
00:28:03.35\00:28:04.75
I'm Shawn Boonstra
00:28:04.75\00:28:06.15
and you've been watching
another edition of "Authentic."
00:28:06.15\00:28:09.65
[gentle music]
00:28:09.65\00:28:12.29
[gentle music continues]
00:28:18.29\00:28:21.76