- It's the biggest
problem that human beings
00:00:01.30\00:00:02.56
have ever wrestled with,
00:00:02.56\00:00:04.07
the question of why we suffer
00:00:04.07\00:00:06.60
if the one who made the
universe in the first place
00:00:06.60\00:00:09.34
is supposed to be good.
00:00:09.34\00:00:10.91
That's our subject on
today's episode of "Authentic."
00:00:10.91\00:00:14.84
[upbeat music]
00:00:14.84\00:00:17.41
It occurs to me now
that we're 30 some episodes
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into this show
00:00:38.00\00:00:39.27
that it's probably
time to have a little talk
00:00:39.27\00:00:41.30
about theodicy,
00:00:41.30\00:00:42.84
which is a $10 word
for the problem of evil,
00:00:42.84\00:00:45.81
and the problem of
evil kind of runs like this.
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People say that God is perfect
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and that he is all
powerful and that he is love,
00:00:51.85\00:00:54.35
and that he's all those
things at the same time.
00:00:54.35\00:00:57.19
So you would think
that God would be able
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to stop human
suffering if he wanted to.
00:00:59.95\00:01:03.29
In other words, the
problem runs like this.
00:01:03.29\00:01:05.26
We have a good
God and a bad world,
00:01:05.26\00:01:07.20
and you've got to wonder why.
00:01:07.20\00:01:09.63
any answer to that question
is considered a theodicy,
00:01:09.63\00:01:13.47
which amounts to a defense
of God and his character.
00:01:13.47\00:01:16.91
We get the word theodicy
00:01:16.91\00:01:18.17
from an 18th
century German philosopher
00:01:18.17\00:01:20.41
by the name of
Gottfried Leibniz,
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who went out of his
way to defend the idea
00:01:22.61\00:01:24.98
that the universe is
ultimately a good place,
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in spite of what we
might perceive it to be
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from our perspective.
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And you'll notice that somewhere
underneath the question,
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the question of a
bad world and a good God,
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there's an implicit accusation
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that maybe there's
something wrong with God.
00:01:41.33\00:01:44.90
Of course, my
atheist friends will insist
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that there's not just
something wrong with God,
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but that there's something
wrong with the idea of God,
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and to their way of thinking,
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the problem of
evil probably proves
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that God doesn't exist at all.
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I'll give you an example
of this kind of reasoning,
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one that I've read before on
show, probably more than once,
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because, well, this
example's so blatant.
00:02:05.35\00:02:08.09
It's the first one
that comes to mind,
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and I'm, guess I'm
gonna take the easy path here.
00:02:09.69\00:02:12.83
Maybe one day I'll
find some new quotes
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so you don't start thinking
I've just read one book,
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but for the last time perhaps,
00:02:16.83\00:02:19.20
here's a statement
from Richard Dawkins,
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everybody's favorite
atheist whipping boy,
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because, well, he
just makes this so easy.
00:02:23.07\00:02:26.17
Here we go.
00:02:26.17\00:02:27.58
An argument from an atheist
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that is really
just a different version
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of the problem of evil.
00:02:30.01\00:02:31.28
He writes, "The God
of the Old Testament
00:02:31.28\00:02:34.42
"is arguably the most unpleasant
character in all fiction:
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"jealous and proud of it,
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"a petty, unjust,
unforgiving, control-freak,
00:02:39.45\00:02:42.46
"a vindictive,
bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser,
00:02:42.46\00:02:45.39
"a misogynistic,
homophobic, racist,
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"infanticidal,
genocidal, filicidal,
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"pestilential, megalomaniacal,
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"sadomasochistic,
capriciously malevolent bully,"
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ha, end of quote.
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And I'm not sure I
need to unpack that for you,
00:03:00.41\00:03:02.21
because what he's
saying is pretty obvious.
00:03:02.21\00:03:04.38
He's telling us,
look, if God is real,
00:03:04.38\00:03:06.82
then he can't be
what people claim he is.
00:03:06.82\00:03:08.92
He most certainly
is not a God of love.
00:03:08.92\00:03:12.15
And Dawkins is drawing
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from some
admittedly difficult passages
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from the Old Testament,
00:03:15.92\00:03:17.53
but what he's do is
cherry picking the data
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to create the
worst possible picture.
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He ignores the
all important context,
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the bigger picture provided
by the other parts of the Bible.
00:03:26.07\00:03:30.04
But for right now,
it's important to notice
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that Dawkins is
questioning the goodness of God
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in a world where
very bad things happen,
00:03:35.18\00:03:38.31
and the conclusion
he wants you to draw
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is that God
probably does not exist.
00:03:40.85\00:03:43.79
For a lot of atheists, the
argument kind of runs like this.
00:03:43.79\00:03:47.02
Evil and the
idea of a loving God
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are completely incompatible,
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and because evil exists,
00:03:51.23\00:03:53.29
that probably
means that God does not.
00:03:53.29\00:03:56.00
The problem of
evil is one of the most
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fundamental
questions in philosophy,
00:03:59.47\00:04:01.67
and it can lead to any number
of disturbing conclusions.
00:04:01.67\00:04:05.77
Some people will
say that if God and evil
00:04:05.77\00:04:08.68
both exist simultaneously,
00:04:08.68\00:04:11.11
that would mean that
God is either uncaring,
00:04:11.11\00:04:14.25
which is not a great conclusion,
00:04:14.25\00:04:16.25
or he's powerless to do
anything about our condition,
00:04:16.25\00:04:19.52
which is also not
a great conclusion.
00:04:19.52\00:04:22.69
Now, the other
possibility is that God
00:04:22.69\00:04:25.16
is just a figment
of our imagination,
00:04:25.16\00:04:26.96
he doesn't exist at all.
00:04:26.96\00:04:28.63
Which means that
you and I might be
00:04:28.63\00:04:30.37
utterly alone in this universe,
00:04:30.37\00:04:33.03
and of course that is
also an unappealing conclusion,
00:04:33.03\00:04:37.37
a conclusion that kind
of defies this inborn sense
00:04:37.37\00:04:40.38
that most of us have
00:04:40.38\00:04:41.78
that there must be
something else out there.
00:04:41.78\00:04:45.78
The idea that we are
nothing but accidents
00:04:45.78\00:04:47.68
makes it hard to explain
00:04:47.68\00:04:49.02
why we happen to be
such complicated accidents
00:04:49.02\00:04:52.59
with deep
emotions and the ability
00:04:52.59\00:04:54.46
to reflect on our own existence.
00:04:54.46\00:04:56.86
The very phenomenon
of human consciousness
00:04:56.86\00:04:59.33
suggests that somehow mind
existed before matter existed,
00:04:59.33\00:05:04.30
because it's really hard
to fathom how consciousness
00:05:05.70\00:05:07.90
could emerge from
mere physical particles.
00:05:07.90\00:05:11.27
So the idea that
God doesn't exist
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really rubs most
people's fur the wrong way.
00:05:13.94\00:05:16.98
Unless of course
you happen to suspect
00:05:16.98\00:05:19.08
that your choices in life
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might require you to give
an answer for what you've done,
00:05:20.98\00:05:24.72
in which case the
idea of meeting God
00:05:24.72\00:05:26.99
can seem very unappealing.
00:05:26.99\00:05:29.92
But even then, I
don't think that most people
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hope that God isn't real.
00:05:32.73\00:05:34.93
I mean, there are a few
out there, but not many.
00:05:34.93\00:05:37.93
Most people hope
that God is merciful,
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because who in the
world wouldn't want
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a loving and merciful God?
00:05:43.17\00:05:45.24
You know, years ago I was
working in the city of Rome
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and I met this guy
who was really interested
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in a seminar I was presenting
over a number of weeks
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there in the city,
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and after getting to know him,
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we met for a
friendly discussion.
00:05:57.49\00:05:59.15
And at one point
he suddenly said,
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"Look Shawn, I don't
know how I can possibly accept
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"what you've been talking about,
00:06:04.16\00:06:05.66
"because we don't even know
if Jesus ever really existed."
00:06:05.66\00:06:10.33
Now, very few
people actually doubt
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the existence of
a historical Jesus.
00:06:13.37\00:06:16.07
They might have
argue that he was nothing
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but a popular
countryside teacher,
00:06:17.47\00:06:20.31
or they might argue that
he simply died on a cross
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and never rose from the dead,
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but very few people
doubt that he actually existed,
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because the mark
he left on this world
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is just far too obvious.
00:06:29.72\00:06:32.22
Even if you happen to believe
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that the stories in the
New Testament are exaggerated,
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or that a lot of erroneous dogma
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has been piled
on top of the story,
00:06:39.43\00:06:41.66
few people doubt that Jesus
was a real historical person.
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So I decided I wasn't
gonna argue with my new friend,
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because I figured
what he was saying
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was a bit of a dodge anyway,
00:06:51.77\00:06:53.81
and it wasn't really the
issue he was struggling with.
00:06:53.81\00:06:56.85
So instead I pointed
to my Bible and I said,
00:06:56.85\00:06:59.15
"Listen, let me just
ask you one question.
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"Do you hope what
this book says is true,
00:07:02.82\00:07:06.05
"or do you hope that it isn't?"
00:07:06.05\00:07:08.66
And he was quiet for a moment,
and then he started to cry.
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He said, "I'd have to be a fool
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"to hope that it wasn't true."
00:07:14.03\00:07:15.80
And I guess I'm
telling you that story
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to underline the point
that most people don't hope
00:07:18.77\00:07:21.40
that God isn't real.
00:07:21.40\00:07:23.61
I mean, they might not like God,
00:07:23.61\00:07:25.51
or at least the picture
of God they were raised with,
00:07:25.51\00:07:28.34
but when you
actually see the narrative
00:07:28.34\00:07:30.15
presented in the scriptures,
00:07:30.15\00:07:32.11
the story of a
loving and merciful God
00:07:32.11\00:07:34.55
who goes out of
his way to save us,
00:07:34.55\00:07:37.12
well, most of us
want that to be true,
00:07:37.12\00:07:39.52
and a lot of us
are just really afraid
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that this wonderful
story might not apply to us,
00:07:41.96\00:07:46.59
which brings us back
to the problem of evil.
00:07:46.59\00:07:49.36
One of the
conclusions people come to
00:07:49.36\00:07:51.50
when faced with the
existence of evil in this world
00:07:51.50\00:07:54.57
is that God does not exist,
00:07:54.57\00:07:56.77
and as I've already said, that
is not a happy a conclusion.
00:07:56.77\00:08:00.54
But the other possibilities,
00:08:00.54\00:08:02.04
that God is
powerless to deal with evil,
00:08:02.04\00:08:04.61
or that he doesn't care,
00:08:04.61\00:08:06.65
well, those
aren't appealing either.
00:08:06.65\00:08:09.02
So then what do we do with
the idea of pain and suffering?
00:08:09.02\00:08:12.22
How do we reconcile that idea
00:08:12.22\00:08:14.79
with the loving and merciful God
00:08:14.79\00:08:16.46
that Christians
sing about in church?
00:08:16.46\00:08:18.59
Well, I sincerely doubt
00:08:19.63\00:08:21.20
that I'm gonna be able
to answer that question
00:08:21.20\00:08:22.90
in just a few short minutes,
00:08:22.90\00:08:24.30
because this is a
question that philosophers
00:08:24.30\00:08:27.14
have wrestled with
for thousands of years,
00:08:27.14\00:08:30.04
and most of the
people who wrestle with it
00:08:30.04\00:08:32.31
are a lot brighter than me.
00:08:32.31\00:08:34.68
Now, I've seen
some people suggest
00:08:34.68\00:08:36.98
that this is the
question behind all philosophy,
00:08:36.98\00:08:40.42
people like Susan Neiman,
00:08:40.42\00:08:42.18
whom I'm starting to
suspect is probably right.
00:08:42.18\00:08:45.89
I mean, if life on
this world was paradise,
00:08:45.89\00:08:49.62
we might still
contemplate the meaning of life,
00:08:49.62\00:08:52.96
but without suffering,
00:08:52.96\00:08:54.20
you've got to wonder
how much the question
00:08:54.20\00:08:55.76
would actually bother us.
00:08:55.76\00:08:57.90
Because there's
something about suffering
00:08:57.90\00:08:59.90
that really makes us wonder
00:08:59.90\00:09:01.80
what in the
world we're doing here.
00:09:01.80\00:09:04.47
So if the problem of
evil is not the big question,
00:09:04.47\00:09:08.78
there's no doubt
it's one of the big ones,
00:09:08.78\00:09:11.25
and in a moment, I'll be
right back to look at this
00:09:11.25\00:09:13.65
just a little bit more.
00:09:13.65\00:09:14.98
- [Announcer] Dragons,
beasts, cryptic statues.
00:09:19.05\00:09:23.32
Bible prophecy can be
incredibly vivid and confusing.
00:09:23.32\00:09:27.93
If you've ever read
Daniel or Revelation
00:09:27.93\00:09:30.07
and come away scratching
your head, you're not alone.
00:09:30.07\00:09:33.13
Our free "Focus
On Prophecy" guides
00:09:33.13\00:09:35.50
are designed to help you unlock
the mysteries of the Bible
00:09:35.50\00:09:38.31
and to deepen your
understanding of God's plan
00:09:38.31\00:09:40.74
for you and our world.
00:09:40.74\00:09:42.38
Study online or
request them by mail
00:09:42.38\00:09:44.78
and start bringing
prophecy into focus today.
00:09:44.78\00:09:47.72
- Near the beginning
of the enlightenment,
00:09:48.88\00:09:50.69
there was this
great deal of enthusiasm
00:09:50.69\00:09:53.59
for the burgeoning art
of scientific discovery.
00:09:53.59\00:09:56.79
We began to suspect that
maybe our human ingenuity
00:09:58.23\00:10:00.70
and our capacity for reason
00:10:00.70\00:10:02.30
could be used to
tame the world we live in,
00:10:02.30\00:10:05.27
and solve many, if not
most of our biggest problems.
00:10:05.27\00:10:08.24
And to a small extent,
it's kind of been true.
00:10:08.24\00:10:11.44
For example, I'm
deeply appreciative
00:10:11.44\00:10:13.84
of the extended lifespans
that we seem to enjoy now.
00:10:13.84\00:10:17.71
But then of course,
the senseless violence
00:10:17.71\00:10:19.91
we witnessed in the 20th century
00:10:19.91\00:10:21.68
kind of put the
breaks on our optimism,
00:10:21.68\00:10:24.45
because when you have something
like 200 million people
00:10:24.45\00:10:27.09
dying from warfare
in a single century,
00:10:27.09\00:10:30.09
you start to realize
that scientific discovery
00:10:30.09\00:10:32.76
and technological advancement
00:10:32.76\00:10:34.73
have only magnified our problems
instead of solving them.
00:10:34.73\00:10:38.53
It turns out there's
something wrong with us,
00:10:38.53\00:10:41.40
and until we can
correct the human heart,
00:10:41.40\00:10:43.71
the bigger problems
just aren't going to go away.
00:10:43.71\00:10:47.91
And of course from a
Christian perspective,
00:10:47.91\00:10:50.18
that's really the issue.
00:10:50.18\00:10:52.05
The suffering in this
world doesn't stem from God,
00:10:52.05\00:10:54.58
it comes from us.
00:10:54.58\00:10:56.72
It's an indication
that what the Bible suggests
00:10:56.72\00:10:59.22
about our fall
from grace is true.
00:10:59.22\00:11:00.99
It says, "All have sinned
00:11:00.99\00:11:02.82
"and fall short
of the glory of God."
00:11:02.82\00:11:05.56
But back in the early
days of The Enlightenment,
00:11:05.56\00:11:07.76
they were discussing
an additional problem.
00:11:07.76\00:11:10.53
Sin might explain some of
the moral evil we experience
00:11:10.53\00:11:13.84
like murder, theft, or adultery,
00:11:13.84\00:11:16.57
but then what do we
do with natural evil
00:11:16.57\00:11:18.74
like fires,
floods, and earthquakes?
00:11:18.74\00:11:21.44
How in the world do we account
for that kind of suffering,
00:11:21.44\00:11:24.28
which is not caused by
an act of the human will?
00:11:24.28\00:11:27.78
What they were doing in the
early years of The Enlightenment
00:11:29.18\00:11:31.92
was trying to explain this
00:11:31.92\00:11:33.59
in a way that preserved
the idea of the biblical God.
00:11:33.59\00:11:36.99
We often think
that science and faith
00:11:36.99\00:11:38.69
have always and
radically opposed to each other,
00:11:38.69\00:11:41.10
but that wasn't
true in the beginning.
00:11:41.10\00:11:43.97
The famous poet, Alexander Pope,
00:11:43.97\00:11:45.83
kind of highlights what
we thought we were doing
00:11:45.83\00:11:48.67
when we started into the
era of scientific discovery.
00:11:48.67\00:11:52.01
Let me read you an
epitaph that he wrote
00:11:52.01\00:11:54.18
for Sir Isaac Newton,
00:11:54.18\00:11:55.48
the man who gave us
a much clearer picture
00:11:55.48\00:11:57.98
of how the universe works
00:11:57.98\00:11:59.41
when he laid out
the law of gravity.
00:11:59.41\00:12:02.28
This epitaph from
Pope reads like this.
00:12:02.28\00:12:05.19
"Nature and nature's
laws lay hid in night.
00:12:05.19\00:12:08.92
"God said, 'Let Newton
be!' and all was light."
00:12:08.92\00:12:12.86
What Pope is saying
is that God used Newton
00:12:14.00\00:12:16.36
to reveal something more
about himself to humanity,
00:12:16.36\00:12:19.30
which was the prevailing
attitude back in that day.
00:12:19.30\00:12:22.57
Scientific discovery was
going to help us understand
00:12:22.57\00:12:25.17
more and more
and more about God,
00:12:25.17\00:12:28.41
and that knowledge
would help us resolve
00:12:28.41\00:12:30.61
some of our biggest questions.
00:12:30.61\00:12:32.95
Every time a new scientific
principle was discovered,
00:12:32.95\00:12:35.68
it underlined the idea that
we live in an orderly universe,
00:12:35.68\00:12:39.42
where if you only
have the right tools,
00:12:39.42\00:12:41.06
you really can
understand things,
00:12:41.06\00:12:43.29
and maybe even
understand the creator.
00:12:43.29\00:12:46.33
Today, we're still
excited by the idea
00:12:46.33\00:12:48.36
of exploring the far
reaches of outer space,
00:12:48.36\00:12:51.20
an excitement that's reflected
in our endless production
00:12:51.20\00:12:54.40
of new Star Trek variants.
00:12:54.40\00:12:56.37
And it's exciting to us because,
00:12:56.37\00:12:58.54
I mean, who knows what
we're gonna find out there,
00:12:58.54\00:13:01.11
and who knows
what those discoveries
00:13:01.11\00:13:02.88
are going to teach us
about who or what we really are.
00:13:02.88\00:13:06.78
Now, our generation
doesn't think of this
00:13:06.78\00:13:08.52
as a search for God,
00:13:08.52\00:13:10.05
but people in the 17th
and 18th centuries really did.
00:13:10.05\00:13:14.32
Here's another example from
Alexander Pope's famous poem,
00:13:14.32\00:13:17.96
"Essay on Man."
00:13:17.96\00:13:19.36
He writes, "Observe how
system into system runs,
00:13:19.36\00:13:23.26
"what other
planets circle other suns.
00:13:23.26\00:13:25.80
"What varied being
peoples every star,
00:13:25.80\00:13:28.37
"May tell why
heaven made us as we are."
00:13:28.37\00:13:31.51
What these
people were hoping to do
00:13:32.71\00:13:34.11
was learn more about God,
00:13:34.11\00:13:35.81
which in turn would
help us understand ourselves.
00:13:35.81\00:13:39.28
Now, that brings us to
the German philosopher,
00:13:39.28\00:13:41.28
Gottfried Leibniz,
00:13:41.28\00:13:42.52
the person who
coined that word, theodicy.
00:13:42.52\00:13:45.39
In fact, the only book he wrote
00:13:45.39\00:13:47.86
that was published
during his lifetime
00:13:47.86\00:13:50.03
was his work on
the problem of evil.
00:13:50.03\00:13:52.79
And in that
book, he makes a couple
00:13:52.79\00:13:54.60
of very interesting
contributions to the overall
00:13:54.60\00:13:58.17
discussion. He really digs
into the idea that it must be
00:13:58.17\00:14:01.60
possible to reconcile
the loving attributes of God
00:14:01.60\00:14:04.71
and the existence of suffering.
00:14:04.71\00:14:06.44
And again, the problem these
philosophers were working on
00:14:07.91\00:14:10.51
kind of ran like this.
00:14:10.51\00:14:12.41
If God is pure and holy,
00:14:12.41\00:14:14.45
and he's also the
creator of everything,
00:14:14.45\00:14:17.15
that would mean that he's
also the creator of bad things,
00:14:17.15\00:14:20.09
and that would make him
less than pure and holy.
00:14:20.09\00:14:23.56
So what these
people were trying to do
00:14:23.56\00:14:25.03
was balance the moral universe
and suggest that somehow,
00:14:25.03\00:14:28.23
all the good in the universe
00:14:28.23\00:14:29.80
actually outweighed all the bad,
00:14:29.80\00:14:32.27
and in the end God's
character will be vindicated.
00:14:32.27\00:14:36.10
In other words,
they were saying,
00:14:36.10\00:14:37.34
you and I just
don't understand enough
00:14:37.34\00:14:39.27
in order to comprehend
the problem, at least not yet.
00:14:39.27\00:14:43.55
Given enough
time, Leibniz suggested,
00:14:43.55\00:14:45.65
we will understand the problem,
00:14:45.65\00:14:47.52
because our
scientific pursuits will help us
00:14:47.52\00:14:49.78
see the
universe as it really is.
00:14:49.78\00:14:52.99
He even suggested that we
don't have the right language
00:14:52.99\00:14:55.92
to work on the
problem, and until we do,
00:14:55.92\00:14:58.53
we're not really going
to understand anything.
00:14:58.53\00:15:01.53
Leibniz speculated
that once upon a time,
00:15:01.53\00:15:03.60
before the Tower of Babel,
00:15:03.60\00:15:05.53
human beings shared
a universal language
00:15:05.53\00:15:08.10
that was much more
powerful and much more complete
00:15:08.10\00:15:11.34
than the assortment of
tongues that we speak today.
00:15:11.34\00:15:14.04
If only we could devise
a new universal language,
00:15:15.48\00:15:19.18
he argued, one that
allowed us to explore
00:15:19.18\00:15:21.85
deep philosophical questions
00:15:21.85\00:15:23.82
the same way we
work on math problems,
00:15:23.82\00:15:27.12
then we would finally understand
00:15:27.12\00:15:28.69
that the overall condition
of the universe is good.
00:15:28.69\00:15:32.09
We simply lack the
ability to see that right now.
00:15:32.09\00:15:35.93
Now, here's the way he describes
it in one of his essays.
00:15:35.93\00:15:38.77
He says, "But no one
has put forward a language
00:15:38.77\00:15:42.60
"or characteristic which
embodies, at the same time,
00:15:42.60\00:15:45.81
"both the art of discovery
and the art of judgment,
00:15:45.81\00:15:48.84
"that is, a language
whose marks or characters
00:15:48.84\00:15:51.88
"perform the same task
00:15:51.88\00:15:53.75
"as arithmetic
marks do for numbers
00:15:53.75\00:15:55.82
"and algebraic
marks do for magnitudes
00:15:55.82\00:15:58.19
"considered abstractly.
00:15:58.19\00:16:00.62
"And yet, when God
bestowed these two sciences
00:16:00.62\00:16:03.22
"on the human race,
00:16:03.22\00:16:04.53
"it seems that he
wanted to suggest to us
00:16:04.53\00:16:07.03
"that a much greater secret
lies hidden in our intellect,
00:16:07.03\00:16:10.57
"a secret of which these
two sciences are but shadows."
00:16:10.57\00:16:14.77
Now, Leibniz was kind
of tapping into the world
00:16:16.00\00:16:19.04
of medieval alchemy,
00:16:19.04\00:16:20.34
because he mentions
the mystic Jakob Bohme
00:16:20.34\00:16:22.68
in this same paragraph.
00:16:22.68\00:16:24.81
The Alchemist were
big fans of Pythagoras,
00:16:24.81\00:16:27.52
the Greek thinker who
attached mystical meanings
00:16:27.52\00:16:30.32
to geometry and numbers.
00:16:30.32\00:16:32.62
But the basic idea
here is still science.
00:16:32.62\00:16:35.59
If we only had the
right language, he argued,
00:16:35.59\00:16:38.53
then we could finally
understand the universe.
00:16:38.53\00:16:41.13
And it's probably important
to mention that Leibniz,
00:16:42.53\00:16:44.67
along with Isaac
Newton, invented a calculus,
00:16:44.67\00:16:47.27
which is a mathematical
way of measuring change.
00:16:47.27\00:16:50.24
Some of you probably had to take
00:16:50.24\00:16:51.91
calculus classes in school.
00:16:51.91\00:16:54.58
So Leibniz was
coming to the universe
00:16:54.58\00:16:56.71
with the mind
of a mathematician,
00:16:56.71\00:16:58.68
hoping that we can
use scientific language
00:16:58.68\00:17:01.42
to open up the
secrets of the universe.
00:17:01.42\00:17:04.59
This, he suggested, would
give us the ability to see
00:17:04.59\00:17:07.76
that God really is good,
00:17:07.76\00:17:09.79
and that we have been wrong
when we give so much weight
00:17:09.79\00:17:12.69
to the evil in this world.
00:17:12.69\00:17:14.83
Scientific
exploration would finally reveal
00:17:14.83\00:17:17.77
that God really did
create the best world possible.
00:17:17.77\00:17:22.00
Now, I've got to
take a really quick break,
00:17:22.00\00:17:24.67
because, well, that's
how things work around here,
00:17:24.67\00:17:27.14
but in a moment
I'll be right back
00:17:27.14\00:17:28.68
to examine whether
or not Leibniz was right
00:17:28.68\00:17:31.68
from a scriptural point of view.
00:17:31.68\00:17:33.65
- [Announcer] Here at
"The Voice Of Prophecy,"
00:17:35.45\00:17:36.92
we're committed to
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00:17:36.92\00:17:39.39
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00:17:39.39\00:17:40.82
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00:17:40.82\00:17:43.96
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00:17:43.96\00:17:46.53
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00:17:59.11\00:18:02.28
- The German
philosopher Gottfried Leibniz
00:18:07.48\00:18:09.95
argued that God really did
make the best possible universe,
00:18:09.95\00:18:14.12
but that we're too
limited in our understanding
00:18:14.12\00:18:16.86
to grasp that.
00:18:16.86\00:18:17.79
We just don't know enough.
00:18:17.79\00:18:20.73
And here's where I really
want to give Leibniz some credit
00:18:20.73\00:18:23.53
because in many ways,
00:18:23.53\00:18:25.07
the Bible kind of
supports that argument.
00:18:25.07\00:18:27.20
I'll give you a few examples.
00:18:27.20\00:18:28.87
There's a statement
over in the book of Romans
00:18:28.87\00:18:31.37
where it tells us
that human language
00:18:31.37\00:18:33.21
is inadequate to
describe some things,
00:18:33.21\00:18:35.98
and that's where the mind
of God begins to take over.
00:18:35.98\00:18:39.81
This passage admits that
something is wrong with this
00:18:39.81\00:18:43.49
world, and then it tells us
that we barely have the language
00:18:43.49\00:18:46.35
to describe it.
00:18:46.35\00:18:47.29
Eight, it says, "For
we that the whole creation
00:18:50.33\00:18:53.76
"groans and labors with
birth pains together until now."
00:18:53.76\00:18:58.47
So that's a description
of the world we live in,
00:18:58.47\00:19:00.90
and it's telling us
that human sinfulness
00:19:00.90\00:19:03.10
has not just
caused the moral evil
00:19:03.10\00:19:05.27
committed by individuals,
00:19:05.27\00:19:07.51
but it has also
led to natural evils,
00:19:07.51\00:19:10.38
because our rebellion has
affected the whole of creation,
00:19:10.38\00:19:13.52
turning it into
something it never used to be.
00:19:13.52\00:19:17.22
Paul continues by saying this.
00:19:17.22\00:19:19.65
"Not only that, but we also
00:19:19.65\00:19:22.29
"who have the
firstfruits of the Spirit,
00:19:22.29\00:19:24.69
"even we ourselves
groan within ourselves,
00:19:24.69\00:19:27.60
"eagerly waiting
for the adoption,
00:19:27.60\00:19:29.80
"the redemption of our body.
00:19:29.80\00:19:31.87
"Likewise, the Spirit
also helps in our weaknesses.
00:19:31.87\00:19:35.17
"For we do not know what we
should pray for as we ought,
00:19:35.17\00:19:38.54
"but the Spirit himself
makes intercession for us
00:19:38.54\00:19:41.61
"with groanings
which cannot be uttered."
00:19:41.61\00:19:44.38
So there you have
a number of elements
00:19:45.55\00:19:48.02
that Leibniz believed in.
00:19:48.02\00:19:49.78
Somehow, natural evil like
fires, floods, and earthquakes,
00:19:49.78\00:19:54.19
and the evil choices of
human beings are connected,
00:19:54.19\00:19:58.03
and you and I struggle to
understand how and why that
00:19:58.03\00:20:01.90
works. In fact, we barely have
the language to pray about it.
00:20:01.90\00:20:06.50
But are we really going
to develop a new scientific
00:20:06.50\00:20:09.60
language that makes up for
this deficit of understanding?
00:20:09.60\00:20:12.81
No, not in this lifetime,
00:20:12.81\00:20:15.14
not according
to a famous passage
00:20:15.14\00:20:16.95
in Paul's first
letter to the Corinthians.
00:20:16.95\00:20:19.65
Here's what he says.
00:20:19.65\00:20:21.32
"For we know in part
and we prophesy in part."
00:20:21.32\00:20:25.29
So again, he's
admitting that human knowledge
00:20:25.29\00:20:27.19
is very incomplete.
00:20:27.19\00:20:28.76
He continues, "But when
that which is perfect has come,
00:20:28.76\00:20:32.66
"then that which is in
part will be done away."
00:20:32.66\00:20:35.96
So he's looking
forward to a time
00:20:35.96\00:20:38.10
when our knowledge
will be more complete.
00:20:38.10\00:20:41.27
He says, "When I was a
child, I spoke as a child.
00:20:41.27\00:20:45.07
"I understood as a
child, I thought a child,
00:20:45.07\00:20:48.01
"but when I became a man,
I put away childish things."
00:20:48.01\00:20:52.38
So now as a mature believer,
00:20:52.38\00:20:54.52
Paul is starting to understand
things a little bit better,
00:20:54.52\00:20:57.45
not perfectly, but better.
00:20:57.45\00:21:00.16
It goes on.
00:21:00.16\00:21:01.42
"For now we see
in a mirror, dimly,
00:21:01.42\00:21:04.56
"but then face to face.
00:21:04.56\00:21:06.53
Now I know in part,
but then I shall know
00:21:06.53\00:21:09.66
"just as I also am known."
00:21:09.66\00:21:12.87
What Paul is
saying is that you and I
00:21:12.87\00:21:14.77
only have a vague concept
00:21:14.77\00:21:16.37
of what perfection
actually looks like,
00:21:16.37\00:21:19.41
and we won't
understand the subject
00:21:19.41\00:21:21.38
until the human race has
been completely restored.
00:21:21.38\00:21:25.01
So according to the Bible,
00:21:25.01\00:21:26.58
what Leibniz suspected is true,
00:21:26.58\00:21:29.08
you and I simply do not
have complete understanding.
00:21:29.08\00:21:33.19
That same idea is
reflected in what might be
00:21:33.19\00:21:35.62
the most ancient book in
the Bible, the book of Job,
00:21:35.62\00:21:38.93
which is entirely dedicated
00:21:38.93\00:21:40.53
to the problem of
suffering and evil.
00:21:40.53\00:21:43.47
For 37 chapters,
Job and his friends
00:21:43.47\00:21:46.43
are trying to figure
out why do Job has to suffer
00:21:46.43\00:21:49.00
when he's always been
devoted to the creator.
00:21:49.00\00:21:51.54
And when job is done
asking his questions,
00:21:51.54\00:21:54.21
God shows up and begins to
ask some questions of his own.
00:21:54.21\00:21:57.81
Here's how that
plays out now, in Job 38.
00:21:57.81\00:22:01.05
"Then the Lord answered Job
out of the whirlwind and said,
00:22:01.05\00:22:03.69
"'Who is this
who darkens counsel
00:22:03.69\00:22:05.95
"'by words without knowledge?
00:22:05.95\00:22:08.46
"'Now prepare
yourself like a man.
00:22:08.46\00:22:10.49
"'I will question you
and you shall answer me.
00:22:10.49\00:22:13.53
"'Where were you? When I laid
the foundations of the earth?
00:22:13.53\00:22:15.73
"'Tell me, if you
have understanding.
00:22:15.73\00:22:18.07
"'Who determined
its measurements?
00:22:18.07\00:22:19.27
"'Surely you know!
00:22:19.27\00:22:21.30
"'Or who
stretched the line upon it?
00:22:21.30\00:22:22.50
"'To what were its
foundations fastened?
00:22:22.50\00:22:24.71
""Or who laid its cornerstone,
00:22:24.71\00:22:26.61
"when the morning
stars sang together
00:22:26.61\00:22:28.44
"'and all the sons of
God shouted for joy?'"
00:22:28.44\00:22:32.38
So in other
words, God is saying,
00:22:32.38\00:22:33.85
"Look Job, you really
don't have the tools you need
00:22:33.85\00:22:36.69
"to understand everything
that happens in the universe.
00:22:36.69\00:22:39.35
"When this creation
was first established,
00:22:39.35\00:22:41.52
"the sons of God, or
the angels, shouted for joy.
00:22:41.52\00:22:44.83
"It was good.
00:22:44.83\00:22:46.16
"In fact, I
declared it to be very good.
00:22:46.16\00:22:49.00
"And yes, it's different
now, and now there's suffering.
00:22:49.00\00:22:52.43
"But you weren't there and
you don't really understand."
00:22:52.43\00:22:56.60
Now that doesn't mean
there aren't any good answers.
00:22:56.60\00:22:59.14
It just means that our
human perspective is compromised
00:22:59.14\00:23:01.78
by a lack of understanding.
00:23:01.78\00:23:03.75
And it also means that
God is going to help us
00:23:03.75\00:23:06.25
understand one day
because Paul makes it clear
00:23:06.25\00:23:08.88
that when we finally
see God face to face,
00:23:08.88\00:23:11.25
we will understand.
00:23:11.25\00:23:14.06
I'll be right back after this.
00:23:14.06\00:23:16.02
- [Announcer] Life
can throw a lot at us.
00:23:19.76\00:23:22.16
Sometimes we don't
have all the answers,
00:23:22.16\00:23:25.50
but that's where
the Bible comes in.
00:23:25.50\00:23:27.97
It's our guide to a
more fulfilling life.
00:23:27.97\00:23:31.04
Here at "The Voice of Prophecy,"
00:23:31.04\00:23:32.57
we've created the
Discover Bible Guides
00:23:32.57\00:23:34.74
to be your guide to the Bible.
00:23:34.74\00:23:36.34
They're designed to
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00:23:36.34\00:23:38.85
and provide answers to many
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00:23:38.85\00:23:41.85
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00:23:41.85\00:23:43.89
So jump online
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00:23:43.89\00:23:46.22
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00:23:46.22\00:23:48.46
- Well, we're
running out of time again,
00:23:49.59\00:23:50.76
so it's probably a horrible idea
00:23:50.76\00:23:52.33
to move into
brand new territory,
00:23:52.33\00:23:54.66
yet I do wanna point out
that the Bible provides us
00:23:54.66\00:23:57.70
with something that the
enlightenment philosophers did
00:23:57.70\00:24:00.97
not. It provides
us with a promise.
00:24:00.97\00:24:04.11
I mean, Leibniz
hinted at a promise,
00:24:04.11\00:24:06.27
he hinted at a time when
people would finally understand
00:24:06.27\00:24:09.34
why we suffer,
00:24:09.34\00:24:11.31
but he places that
promise at the feet
00:24:11.31\00:24:13.18
of rationality and science.
00:24:13.18\00:24:15.58
The Bible takes a
different approach.
00:24:15.58\00:24:18.39
There are a number of
scenes in the scriptures
00:24:18.39\00:24:20.39
that describe a final judgment
00:24:20.39\00:24:22.36
that takes place
in several phases.
00:24:22.36\00:24:24.89
In Daniel seven, we
see the angelic hosts
00:24:24.89\00:24:27.66
assembling at the throne of God
00:24:27.66\00:24:29.13
where the Books of
Judgment are opened,
00:24:29.13\00:24:32.43
and the question you
probably need to ask is this.
00:24:32.43\00:24:34.97
Why would an
all-knowing God need books?
00:24:34.97\00:24:38.47
The answer is he doesn't,
00:24:38.47\00:24:40.48
but a mere created angel might.
00:24:40.48\00:24:43.08
You find the same
thing over in Revelation 20,
00:24:43.08\00:24:45.15
but with human
beings instead of angels.
00:24:45.15\00:24:47.22
It tells us we get
to look at the books,
00:24:47.22\00:24:50.32
which is another way of saying
00:24:50.32\00:24:51.72
that we will
eventually understand.
00:24:51.72\00:24:55.19
Now I know that argument
doesn't make some people happy,
00:24:55.19\00:24:57.69
because we don't like to wait,
00:24:57.69\00:25:00.36
and we don't like to
think that we don't know enough
00:25:00.36\00:25:02.96
to solve a
problem, but there it is.
00:25:02.96\00:25:06.17
And we're gonna come
back to this on another show.
00:25:06.17\00:25:09.07
At that moment, the Bible says,
00:25:09.07\00:25:11.61
God himself will reach
out and wipe away our tears.
00:25:11.61\00:25:14.88
He will make us
perfectly satisfied.
00:25:14.88\00:25:18.05
Here's what it says in
Revelation, chapter seven.
00:25:18.05\00:25:20.62
"They shall neither hunger
anymore nor thirst anymore.
00:25:22.05\00:25:24.89
"The sun shall not
strike them nor any heat,
00:25:26.22\00:25:27.49
"for the Lamb who is
in the midst of the throne
00:25:27.49\00:25:29.42
"will shepherd
them and lead them
00:25:29.42\00:25:31.33
"to living fountains of waters.
00:25:31.33\00:25:33.29
"And God will wipe away
every tear from their eyes."
00:25:33.29\00:25:38.27
In other words, it's not
going to be like this forever.
00:25:39.63\00:25:42.84
Now, that doesn't mean
you can't get a better grasp
00:25:42.84\00:25:45.41
of the subject right now,
00:25:45.41\00:25:46.74
even if our own
understanding is incomplete.
00:25:46.74\00:25:49.48
The rest of the
Bible offers good answers
00:25:49.48\00:25:52.35
to the problem of evil that
would frankly blow your mind
00:25:52.35\00:25:55.58
if you took the
time to look at them.
00:25:55.58\00:25:57.69
You know, Leibniz
predicted that in the future,
00:25:59.02\00:26:01.19
our understanding of
God's goodness would grow,
00:26:01.19\00:26:04.33
and during the
very next century,
00:26:04.33\00:26:06.29
a number of Christians
00:26:06.29\00:26:07.50
really to tackled
this subject seriously.
00:26:07.50\00:26:10.17
One of those 19th
century Christian writers
00:26:10.17\00:26:12.70
wrote about it in
1888, and she said this.
00:26:12.70\00:26:15.77
Now, this is one of
my favorite passages
00:26:15.77\00:26:18.34
from Christian literature.
00:26:18.34\00:26:19.61
It's such a
thought-provoking statement
00:26:19.61\00:26:21.54
that I thought I'd
finish with it today.
00:26:21.54\00:26:23.68
She wrote, "It is impossible
to so explain the origin of sin
00:26:23.68\00:26:28.12
"as to give a
reason for its existence.
00:26:28.12\00:26:31.05
"Yet enough may be understood
concerning both the origin
00:26:31.05\00:26:33.72
"and the final
disposition of sin
00:26:33.72\00:26:36.06
"to fully make manifest the
justice and benevolence of God
00:26:36.06\00:26:39.86
"in all his dealings with evil.
00:26:39.86\00:26:42.70
"Nothing is more
plainly taught in scripture
00:26:42.70\00:26:45.87
"than that God was
in nowise responsible
00:26:45.87\00:26:48.64
"for the entrance of sin,
00:26:48.64\00:26:50.41
"that there was no arbitrary
withdrawal of divine grace,
00:26:50.41\00:26:54.04
"no deficiency in
the divine government
00:26:54.04\00:26:56.14
"that gave occasion for
the uprising of rebellion.
00:26:56.14\00:26:59.51
"Sin is an
intruder for whose presence
00:26:59.51\00:27:02.35
"no reason can be given.
00:27:02.35\00:27:04.45
"It is
mysterious, unaccountable,
00:27:04.45\00:27:06.29
"to excuse it is to defend it.
00:27:06.29\00:27:09.39
"Could excuse for it be found,
00:27:09.39\00:27:11.99
"or cause be
shown for its existence,
00:27:11.99\00:27:13.80
"it would cease to be sin."
00:27:13.80\00:27:16.26
Apparently David Hume,
the famous philosopher,
00:27:16.26\00:27:18.87
came to the same conclusion.
00:27:18.87\00:27:21.37
You can either
recognize that evil exists,
00:27:21.37\00:27:24.51
or you can explain
it, but you can't do both.
00:27:24.51\00:27:28.54
So I think I'm gonna
let you chew on that idea
00:27:28.54\00:27:30.68
for this week.
00:27:30.68\00:27:31.88
Evil is a problem
you're not gonna solve
00:27:31.88\00:27:33.45
only by using human logic,
00:27:33.45\00:27:35.78
because if you
could find a good reason
00:27:35.78\00:27:38.22
for the existence of evil,
00:27:38.22\00:27:40.49
well, it wouldn't still be evil.
00:27:40.49\00:27:42.59
So maybe Leibniz was right.
00:27:42.59\00:27:43.86
You and I don't have
the philosophical language
00:27:43.86\00:27:46.13
to describe the problem.
00:27:46.13\00:27:47.96
But that doesn't mean
there isn't an answer,
00:27:47.96\00:27:49.90
because there is.
00:27:49.90\00:27:51.13
We're just gonna
have to wait for God
00:27:51.13\00:27:53.00
to fill in some of the blanks.
00:27:53.00\00:27:55.37
Thanks for joining me this week.
00:27:55.37\00:27:56.81
This has been
"Authentic," I'm Shawn Boonstra.
00:27:56.81\00:28:00.04
[upbeat music]
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