- Today we're gonna
be talking a little bit
00:00:01.13\00:00:02.66
about the ultimate question,
00:00:02.66\00:00:04.47
and of course
the ultimate question
00:00:04.47\00:00:06.53
about your human
existence is death.
00:00:06.53\00:00:09.67
And I know this
sounds a little depressing,
00:00:09.67\00:00:11.41
but I really think you're gonna
wanna pay attention to this
00:00:11.41\00:00:13.68
because after all your
turn is definitely coming.
00:00:13.68\00:00:18.18
[light music]
00:00:18.18\00:00:20.75
I know this is gonna
sound a little bit morbid,
00:00:38.97\00:00:41.40
but the older I get naturally,
00:00:41.40\00:00:43.57
the more I find myself thinking
about the subject of death.
00:00:43.57\00:00:46.51
And it's not
that I'm afraid to die
00:00:47.74\00:00:49.04
because honestly I'm not,
00:00:49.04\00:00:50.81
I mean, we'll see what happens
00:00:50.81\00:00:52.11
when I actually
get to the finish line,
00:00:52.11\00:00:53.52
I might have this
little moment of panic,
00:00:53.52\00:00:55.28
I have seen some people do that,
00:00:55.28\00:00:57.59
but for right now
I'm pretty comfortable
00:00:57.59\00:01:00.09
with the idea of
my own mortality.
00:01:00.09\00:01:02.72
It does raise
some questions however,
00:01:02.72\00:01:05.73
and these are questions
that people have wrestled with
00:01:05.73\00:01:07.93
since at least the
beginning of recorded history.
00:01:07.93\00:01:11.00
Stuff like, where
do I go when I die?
00:01:11.00\00:01:14.14
What exactly happens one minute
after I draw my final breath
00:01:14.14\00:01:17.97
and close my eyes
for the last time?
00:01:17.97\00:01:20.68
Now if you wanna answer
those kinds of questions,
00:01:20.68\00:01:23.08
you really have to
figure out who or what you are.
00:01:23.08\00:01:26.82
Are you some kind
of spiritual being
00:01:26.82\00:01:29.12
who just uses a physical body
like a suit made out of meat,
00:01:29.12\00:01:33.76
or are you a
purely physical being
00:01:33.76\00:01:35.76
who just happens to
disappear the day you die?
00:01:35.76\00:01:38.83
And where exactly
are you right now?
00:01:38.83\00:01:42.33
I mean, I know that
I'm right here in a chair
00:01:42.33\00:01:44.97
and I occupy a
specific position in space,
00:01:44.97\00:01:48.20
but where exactly is
the core of who I am?
00:01:48.20\00:01:52.21
What is the essence of Shawn?
00:01:52.21\00:01:54.54
After centuries of
scientific discovery,
00:01:54.54\00:01:56.51
we've come to the
conclusion that the sum total
00:01:56.51\00:01:58.71
of my personality, my
beliefs, my characteristics,
00:01:58.71\00:02:02.38
they're all housed in this,
00:02:02.38\00:02:03.92
well, three pound
lump of gray matter
00:02:03.92\00:02:06.86
that sits behind my forehead.
00:02:06.86\00:02:09.76
And maybe because my eyes
are right in front of my brain
00:02:09.76\00:02:12.43
and my eyes are the primary
point of access to the world,
00:02:12.43\00:02:15.80
maybe that all just creates
the illusion that the essence
00:02:15.80\00:02:18.43
of who I am resides
up here inside my skull.
00:02:18.43\00:02:22.14
And I know we all
kinda take that for granted,
00:02:22.14\00:02:24.07
but you know historically,
00:02:24.07\00:02:25.54
we haven't always
thought of the brain
00:02:25.54\00:02:27.68
as the seat of consciousness.
00:02:27.68\00:02:29.61
So where exactly do I reside?
00:02:29.61\00:02:32.58
Is this where I
am inside my head?
00:02:32.58\00:02:35.85
Is the brain the
seat of the human soul?
00:02:35.85\00:02:39.82
I don't know if you've
ever seen some of those
00:02:40.99\00:02:42.42
really schlocky science fiction
movies from the 50s or 60s
00:02:42.42\00:02:45.19
like "The Brain
That Wouldn't Die"
00:02:45.19\00:02:47.10
I've mentioned that one before,
00:02:47.10\00:02:49.76
it's where some mad scientist
separates the human head
00:02:49.76\00:02:53.00
from the rest of the
body and keeps it alive.
00:02:53.00\00:02:55.87
And the idea behind
these movies is that
00:02:55.87\00:02:58.57
the brain is really
the essence of who you are,
00:02:58.57\00:03:01.11
your body is
just a support system
00:03:01.11\00:03:03.28
that keeps your brain alive
00:03:03.28\00:03:04.78
and allows it to interact
with the external world.
00:03:04.78\00:03:07.22
But this up here is where
you live, inside your head,
00:03:07.22\00:03:09.95
and everything else attached
to your brain is there to serve
00:03:09.95\00:03:13.36
this incredible control
center which makes it possible
00:03:13.36\00:03:17.09
for you to have a
meaningful existence.
00:03:17.09\00:03:19.39
Now again, I know this
all seems obvious to us,
00:03:19.39\00:03:22.80
but we haven't always located
the seat of consciousness
00:03:22.80\00:03:26.27
in the brain.
00:03:26.27\00:03:27.70
Go back and read some
of the old literature,
00:03:27.70\00:03:29.90
and you'll find people
talking about using their hearts
00:03:29.90\00:03:32.57
to experience emotion which
is something we still do today
00:03:32.57\00:03:35.41
when we tell
people, follow your heart,
00:03:35.41\00:03:37.68
or love that person
with all your heart.
00:03:37.68\00:03:40.95
Go back further in history
00:03:40.95\00:03:42.62
and you'll actually find
some ancient cultures talking
00:03:42.62\00:03:45.22
about using their
livers the same way.
00:03:45.22\00:03:48.79
I guess we've always known
somehow that something physical
00:03:48.79\00:03:52.89
inside your body is
responsible for who you are
00:03:52.89\00:03:56.90
and how you
experience this universe.
00:03:56.90\00:03:59.63
Go back far enough and
you'll find people guessing that
00:03:59.63\00:04:02.27
the various organs in your
body were actually responsible
00:04:02.27\00:04:05.17
for creating certain
temperaments or personality
00:04:05.17\00:04:09.08
types. We still have artifacts
00:04:09.08\00:04:10.31
from that kinda
thinking in our language today.
00:04:10.31\00:04:12.78
So for example,
we identify people
00:04:12.78\00:04:14.38
as sanguine, or choleric,
or melancholic or phlegmatic.
00:04:14.38\00:04:18.59
And if you look at
those words carefully,
00:04:18.59\00:04:20.36
study the etymology,
00:04:20.36\00:04:22.19
you'll see that they're rooted
in the various body fluids.
00:04:22.19\00:04:25.19
It's kind of disgusting,
00:04:25.19\00:04:26.86
but way back when we
believe that sanguine people
00:04:26.86\00:04:29.63
were governed by their
blood, so what the word means,
00:04:29.63\00:04:32.30
choleric people were
governed by yellow bile,
00:04:32.30\00:04:34.90
melancholic people
were governed by black bile,
00:04:34.90\00:04:37.87
and the phlegmatics kinda
got the short end of the stick
00:04:37.87\00:04:40.68
because well,
00:04:40.68\00:04:42.18
it was believed they
were governed by their flame.
00:04:42.18\00:04:45.15
The idea though is
still kinda fascinating
00:04:45.15\00:04:47.08
because somehow we
realized that who we are
00:04:47.08\00:04:50.82
is rooted in the very
physical reality of our bodies.
00:04:50.82\00:04:54.82
You just can't
escape physical existence,
00:04:54.82\00:04:58.63
and somehow that physical
existence defines who you are.
00:04:58.63\00:05:03.57
Now that of course
kinda runs foul of the way
00:05:05.07\00:05:07.67
that most people think about
00:05:07.67\00:05:08.87
the essential
nature of human beings.
00:05:08.87\00:05:11.81
In a lot of
cultures, people tend to think
00:05:11.81\00:05:14.24
in what we call dualistic terms,
00:05:14.24\00:05:16.95
you have your physical self,
00:05:16.95\00:05:18.21
but then you also
have a spiritual self,
00:05:18.21\00:05:20.38
a consciousness that can
somehow exist without a body,
00:05:20.38\00:05:24.02
and it can also
somehow think without a brain.
00:05:24.02\00:05:28.12
Now from what I said [mumbles]
00:05:28.12\00:05:29.79
that raises some
really important questions.
00:05:29.79\00:05:32.89
If I need a brain to think,
00:05:32.89\00:05:34.46
and then I suddenly
die and leave my body,
00:05:34.46\00:05:36.77
how does that work?
00:05:36.77\00:05:38.57
How do I go on with
the business of thinking
00:05:38.57\00:05:40.84
if I don't have
a neural network?
00:05:40.84\00:05:43.10
Is it like a relay
race where my physical brain
00:05:43.10\00:05:45.74
suddenly hands the baton
of consciousness to my ghost
00:05:45.74\00:05:49.94
when it's leaving?
00:05:49.94\00:05:51.48
Or does my spirit
kinda play my physical brain
00:05:51.48\00:05:54.25
and my neural
network like a puppeteer
00:05:54.25\00:05:56.42
pulling the
strings in a marionette
00:05:56.42\00:05:58.45
making my existence
sing conscious and real,
00:05:58.45\00:06:02.26
but then it just
dumps this whole me puppet
00:06:02.26\00:06:04.13
on the ground
when the show is over?
00:06:04.13\00:06:06.63
Where exactly is
the seat of the soul?
00:06:06.63\00:06:10.70
Now I know that most of us slept
00:06:12.03\00:06:13.40
through history
class in high school,
00:06:13.40\00:06:15.07
but here comes payday
for those of you who didn't,
00:06:15.07\00:06:18.41
there are lots of points
in history we could visit
00:06:18.41\00:06:20.78
to examine the
nature of humanity,
00:06:20.78\00:06:22.54
but since we only have
a few minutes together,
00:06:22.54\00:06:24.68
let's go back to the big one,
00:06:24.68\00:06:26.28
let's go back to the
Greek philosopher Plato.
00:06:26.28\00:06:29.68
Now I don't know if
you remember studying
00:06:29.68\00:06:32.55
Plato's theory of forms
or the Allegory of the cave,
00:06:32.55\00:06:36.42
but this is probably
the number one influence
00:06:36.42\00:06:38.96
on the way that you and I
think about death and dying.
00:06:38.96\00:06:41.50
And I hate to say it,
00:06:41.50\00:06:42.96
but Plato might actually
be a bigger influence on us
00:06:42.96\00:06:46.67
than the Bible.
00:06:46.67\00:06:48.10
Plato taught that the
material world is imperfect,
00:06:48.10\00:06:50.84
and in a lot of ways,
well, I'd have to agree.
00:06:50.84\00:06:54.01
Everything you
encounter in this life
00:06:54.01\00:06:55.81
is always gonna
have some kind of flaw,
00:06:55.81\00:06:58.18
some little thing that makes
it, well, less than perfect,
00:06:58.18\00:07:02.18
but Plato might
argue that the reason
00:07:02.18\00:07:04.52
we know something
is imperfect is because
00:07:04.52\00:07:07.09
we have some idea of what
perfection should look like.
00:07:07.09\00:07:11.73
That model of
perfection in our mind
00:07:11.73\00:07:13.63
is something he
called the ideal,
00:07:13.63\00:07:16.13
something that
doesn't actually exist here
00:07:16.13\00:07:17.93
in the physical world,
00:07:17.93\00:07:19.43
it belongs to the spiritual
world out there somewhere,
00:07:19.43\00:07:23.04
and you and I live
among shadowy representations
00:07:23.04\00:07:26.27
of those perfect
ideals that only exist
00:07:26.27\00:07:29.01
in the non
physical spirit world.
00:07:29.01\00:07:32.41
So Plato's analogy of the
cave kinda goes like this,
00:07:32.41\00:07:37.25
imagine that you and I
live in a deep dark cave
00:07:37.25\00:07:39.35
and we're stuck there,
00:07:39.35\00:07:40.52
we're chained to a wall
00:07:40.52\00:07:41.92
and we spend our
entire lives staring
00:07:41.92\00:07:44.66
at the back wall of the cave.
00:07:44.66\00:07:47.13
Behind us there's
a source of light,
00:07:47.13\00:07:49.10
a fire that cast shadows
on the wall in front of us
00:07:49.10\00:07:52.23
so that when something
moves past that source of light,
00:07:52.23\00:07:54.30
we can kind of see it
except all we really see
00:07:54.30\00:07:57.44
is a blurry imperfect shadow.
00:07:57.44\00:08:00.34
So Plato said
that the blurry shadow
00:08:00.34\00:08:03.14
is this material physical world,
00:08:03.14\00:08:05.15
everything we
experience in this place
00:08:05.15\00:08:06.75
might seem physical and
real, but it's an illusion,
00:08:06.75\00:08:10.32
it's just a fuzzy
indistinct representation
00:08:10.32\00:08:13.25
of a much higher reality.
00:08:13.25\00:08:15.26
Now that higher
reality only exists
00:08:15.26\00:08:17.96
in the non-physical
spiritual realm, he said,
00:08:17.96\00:08:20.36
which is somewhere out
there outside of the cave.
00:08:20.36\00:08:23.83
So understandably,
00:08:23.83\00:08:25.27
what a lot of Greek
philosophers wanted to do
00:08:25.27\00:08:27.64
more than anything else,
00:08:27.64\00:08:29.07
was leave this physical
world with all of its problems
00:08:29.07\00:08:31.91
and ascend to
the spiritual realm
00:08:31.91\00:08:33.98
where they
could finally be free.
00:08:33.98\00:08:36.28
That's why in Plato's account
to the death of Socrates,
00:08:36.28\00:08:40.12
you have this great teacher
trying to comfort his students
00:08:40.12\00:08:42.92
with the idea that his
impending execution by poison
00:08:42.92\00:08:46.72
is actually a good thing,
00:08:46.72\00:08:48.69
it's a promotion, he's going
to escape the physical world.
00:08:48.69\00:08:52.46
Lemme read you just a
little bit from Phaedo,
00:08:52.46\00:08:54.63
which is Plato's account
of the death of Socrates,
00:08:54.63\00:08:58.20
and this is Socrates speaking.
00:08:58.20\00:09:00.34
"I want to make my
argument before you, my judges,
00:09:01.70\00:09:03.87
"as to why I think that a man
00:09:03.87\00:09:05.34
"who has truly spent
his life in philosophy
00:09:05.34\00:09:07.88
"is probably right to be of
good cheer in the face of death
00:09:07.88\00:09:10.95
"and to be very
hopeful that after death
00:09:10.95\00:09:13.35
"he will attain to the
greatest blessings yonder."
00:09:13.35\00:09:18.25
In other words, he's
saying that real philosophers
00:09:18.25\00:09:21.42
spend their lives
contemplating a higher reality,
00:09:21.42\00:09:23.99
and when they
die they get to leave
00:09:23.99\00:09:26.29
this imperfect
physical existence
00:09:26.29\00:09:28.16
and live the way they wanna
live in the world of spirits,
00:09:28.16\00:09:31.10
the world of perfect ideals.
00:09:31.10\00:09:34.17
That's why things
like sexual relationships
00:09:34.17\00:09:36.67
or food and drink didn't matter
00:09:36.67\00:09:38.44
to some of these
philosophers because
00:09:38.44\00:09:40.54
those kinds of
physical activities are part
00:09:40.54\00:09:42.78
of this messy,
imperfect physical world.
00:09:42.78\00:09:46.48
What the
philosopher wanted was knowledge
00:09:46.48\00:09:49.32
which he believed
is far more possible
00:09:49.32\00:09:51.35
once you leave
this physical existence.
00:09:51.35\00:09:53.59
So here's what
Socrates teaches his students.
00:09:53.59\00:09:58.36
"It has really
been shown to us that,
00:09:58.36\00:10:01.36
"if we are to ever
have pure knowledge,
00:10:01.36\00:10:03.73
"we must escape from the body
00:10:03.73\00:10:05.43
"and observe matters in
themselves with the soul by
00:10:05.43\00:10:09.14
itself. "It seems likely
that we shall, only then,
00:10:09.14\00:10:11.24
"when we are dead,
attain that which we desire
00:10:11.24\00:10:14.44
"and of which we
claim to be lovers,
00:10:14.44\00:10:16.11
"as our own argument
shows, not while we live,
00:10:16.11\00:10:19.21
"for if it is
impossible to attain
00:10:19.21\00:10:21.68
"any pure
knowledge with the body,
00:10:21.68\00:10:22.92
"then one of two things is true:
00:10:22.92\00:10:24.85
"either we can
never attain knowledge,
00:10:24.85\00:10:27.69
"or we can do so after death."
00:10:27.69\00:10:31.19
In other words what a
philosopher wants to do
00:10:31.19\00:10:33.70
is step out of
the deep dark cave
00:10:33.70\00:10:35.30
and out into the
glorious light of day.
00:10:35.30\00:10:37.40
So the question of course is,
00:10:37.40\00:10:38.77
how does that mesh
with what this book says?
00:10:38.77\00:10:43.20
Don't you go away,
I'll be right back.
00:10:43.20\00:10:45.51
- [Announcer] Are
you searching for answers
00:10:48.64\00:10:49.91
to life's
toughest questions like,
00:10:49.91\00:10:51.98
where is God when we suffer?
00:10:51.98\00:10:53.78
Can I find real happiness?
00:10:53.78\00:10:55.58
Or is there any hope
for our chaotic world?
00:10:55.58\00:10:58.75
The Discover Bible
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00:11:25.71\00:11:27.98
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00:11:37.36\00:11:40.66
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00:11:40.66\00:11:43.06
- As far as we know Socrates
00:11:47.94\00:11:49.90
never actually
wrote anything down,
00:11:49.90\00:11:51.91
but we have people
like Plato to thank
00:11:51.91\00:11:53.54
for what little we do
know about his teachings.
00:11:53.54\00:11:56.95
And what you have in this
account of his final moments
00:11:58.41\00:12:01.28
is the story of
a wise philosopher
00:12:01.28\00:12:03.05
who's kind of excited
by the thought of death
00:12:03.05\00:12:05.09
because he's going to leave
the imperfect material world
00:12:05.09\00:12:08.26
and ascend to
the world of spirits
00:12:08.26\00:12:09.66
where your mind
is no longer impeded
00:12:09.66\00:12:12.39
by the inconvenience of
being locked in a physical body.
00:12:12.39\00:12:16.06
Now that does raise the
question of whether or not
00:12:16.06\00:12:18.83
your thoughts are actually
located here in your brain.
00:12:18.83\00:12:22.84
I mean, if you
can leave your body
00:12:22.84\00:12:24.77
and still have
conscious thoughts,
00:12:24.77\00:12:26.24
then why in the world do
you need these three pounds
00:12:26.24\00:12:29.41
of gray matter
to help you think?
00:12:29.41\00:12:31.88
And if thinking actually
takes place somewhere other
00:12:31.88\00:12:34.05
than right here in
your material brain,
00:12:34.05\00:12:36.22
if the real you is
actually located somewhere else
00:12:36.22\00:12:38.59
like in a ghost, then why
does it warp your thinking
00:12:38.59\00:12:41.79
to ingest physical
substances like alcohol or LSD?
00:12:41.79\00:12:46.26
How does a chemical substance,
00:12:46.26\00:12:47.76
a molecule that
very definitely exists
00:12:47.76\00:12:50.03
in the physical world,
00:12:50.03\00:12:51.43
how does that affect
your non-physical mind?
00:12:51.43\00:12:55.14
That's a good question.
00:12:55.14\00:12:56.50
So let's do a
little bit of digging.
00:12:56.50\00:12:59.01
By the time the
Greeks established
00:12:59.01\00:13:00.74
the city of
Alexandria and North Africa,
00:13:00.74\00:13:03.21
Greek philosophy was
all the rage [mumbles]
00:13:03.21\00:13:05.81
there were a lot of Jewish
intellectuals living there
00:13:05.81\00:13:08.28
who were eager to
impress the Greeks
00:13:08.28\00:13:09.98
with their own
capacity for logic and reason.
00:13:09.98\00:13:13.02
And in later years, this was
also true of some Christians,
00:13:13.02\00:13:15.92
they wanted to prove
that biblical thinking
00:13:15.92\00:13:18.76
was just as logical
and just as profound
00:13:18.76\00:13:20.96
as Socrates or
Plato or Aristotle.
00:13:20.96\00:13:24.60
So what we got was
this blending of worlds.
00:13:25.73\00:13:28.54
We had
incredibly bright thinkers
00:13:28.54\00:13:30.37
blending the
world of Greek dualism
00:13:30.37\00:13:32.57
with the worldview that is
actually taught in the Bible.
00:13:32.57\00:13:35.61
This became so
prevalent at one point
00:13:35.61\00:13:37.98
that the church
father, Tertullian
00:13:37.98\00:13:39.68
tried to slow
things down by saying,
00:13:39.68\00:13:41.45
"What has
Jerusalem to do with Athens,
00:13:41.45\00:13:43.82
"the Church with the Academy,
00:13:43.82\00:13:45.29
"the Christian
with the heretic?"
00:13:45.29\00:13:48.19
What he was driving at was this,
00:13:48.19\00:13:51.03
there is enough difference
between Greek philosophy
00:13:51.03\00:13:53.40
and the teachings of the Bible
00:13:53.40\00:13:55.06
that you wanna be very
careful how you mix them.
00:13:55.06\00:13:58.30
Tertullian himself was
00:13:58.30\00:13:59.47
a former pagan
converted to Christianity,
00:13:59.47\00:14:02.07
and he saw a dramatic
difference between this book
00:14:02.07\00:14:05.97
and the writings of
the ancient philosophers,
00:14:05.97\00:14:07.81
enough so that he drew a
definite line in the scene.
00:14:07.81\00:14:11.61
You've got the worldview
of Athens on the one hand,
00:14:11.61\00:14:14.62
and the worldview of
Jerusalem on the other,
00:14:14.62\00:14:16.75
and you've got to
choose between the two because
00:14:16.75\00:14:18.69
they really can't be reconciled.
00:14:18.69\00:14:21.39
However, that doesn't
mean that we didn't try,
00:14:21.39\00:14:23.83
and you find pagan Greek
dualism making huge inroads
00:14:23.83\00:14:28.23
into the Christian Church
in ways that kind of changed
00:14:28.23\00:14:30.73
the way that a lot of Christians
still think to this day.
00:14:30.73\00:14:34.40
And one of the
most blatant examples
00:14:34.40\00:14:36.17
we have of this unfortunate
blending of Jerusalem
00:14:36.17\00:14:38.71
and Athens is found in a
group known as the Gnostics,
00:14:38.71\00:14:42.28
one of the earliest
heresies to invade Christianity.
00:14:42.28\00:14:46.11
Gnosticism comes from a word
that simply means knowledge,
00:14:46.11\00:14:49.38
and a lot of these
Gnostics actually taught
00:14:49.38\00:14:51.22
that the material world,
00:14:51.22\00:14:52.45
the physical world
you live in is evil.
00:14:52.45\00:14:54.69
It was created by
some kind of lesser deity
00:14:54.69\00:14:57.13
who frankly blew it,
00:14:57.13\00:14:58.63
he made a mistake because
the world is just so imperfect.
00:14:58.63\00:15:02.56
They called this
lesser god, the Demiurge,
00:15:02.56\00:15:05.73
and they say
that he was nothing,
00:15:05.73\00:15:07.20
but an imperfect emanation
from a higher more perfect God
00:15:07.20\00:15:10.64
who existed in the
purely spiritual realm.
00:15:10.64\00:15:13.51
Now that kind of
thinking was one of
00:15:14.71\00:15:16.21
the biggest problems faced
by the early Christian church.
00:15:16.21\00:15:18.88
And we think that one of
the motives that Paul had
00:15:18.88\00:15:21.18
for writing the Book
of Colossians was to fight
00:15:21.18\00:15:24.25
this corruption
of biblical thought.
00:15:24.25\00:15:26.49
The Gnostic said the
creator was imperfect,
00:15:26.49\00:15:28.39
that he messed things,
00:15:28.39\00:15:29.66
so here's what
Paul writes about Jesus.
00:15:29.66\00:15:33.80
"He is the image
of the invisible God,
00:15:33.80\00:15:37.43
"the firstborn
over all creation.
00:15:37.43\00:15:39.67
"For by Him all things
were created that are in heaven
00:15:39.67\00:15:42.70
"and that are on
earth, visible and invisible,
00:15:42.70\00:15:45.01
"whether thrones or dominions
or principalities or powers.
00:15:45.01\00:15:48.74
"All things were
created through Him and for Him.
00:15:48.74\00:15:52.48
"And He is before all things,
00:15:52.48\00:15:54.18
"and in Him all things consist."
00:15:54.18\00:15:57.79
So you'll notice that Paul is
arguing that the invisible God
00:15:57.79\00:16:01.79
is the same as the creator God,
00:16:01.79\00:16:03.46
the Son is made in
the image of the Father
00:16:03.46\00:16:05.86
and He is not some
kind of lesser deity,
00:16:05.86\00:16:08.33
and it was Jesus who made the
visible and invisible worlds.
00:16:08.33\00:16:13.23
So of course, that
raises another question.
00:16:13.23\00:16:15.97
In the original
design of the Creator,
00:16:15.97\00:16:17.81
which world did
human beings belong to,
00:16:17.81\00:16:19.64
the visible or
the invisible world?
00:16:19.64\00:16:22.38
Lemme show you
something really important over
00:16:23.55\00:16:25.21
in the Book of Genesis,
00:16:25.21\00:16:26.38
this comes from Genesis 1,
00:16:26.38\00:16:28.38
where God has
created the human race.
00:16:28.38\00:16:30.69
Here's what it says.
00:16:30.69\00:16:32.32
"Then God blessed
them, and God said to them,
00:16:32.32\00:16:35.12
"'Be fruitful and multiply,
00:16:35.12\00:16:36.22
"'fill the earth and subdue it,
00:16:36.22\00:16:38.06
"'have dominion
over the fish of the sea,
00:16:38.06\00:16:39.49
"'over the birds of the air,
00:16:39.49\00:16:40.96
"'and over every living
thing that moves on the earth.'
00:16:40.96\00:16:43.40
"Then God saw
everything that He had made,
00:16:43.40\00:16:45.20
"and indeed it was very good."
00:16:45.20\00:16:47.90
This book says that God
made us as very physical beings,
00:16:49.37\00:16:54.01
and He put us in a
very physical world,
00:16:55.18\00:16:56.38
and when He was
finished creating us
00:16:56.38\00:16:57.41
He said it was all very good.
00:16:57.41\00:17:00.25
The way the
Gnostics told the story,
00:17:00.25\00:17:01.75
you and I were sparks that
emanated from a divine fire,
00:17:01.75\00:17:04.55
we were spirit beings
who unfortunately got trapped
00:17:04.55\00:17:07.86
in a miserable
physical existence
00:17:07.86\00:17:09.86
and we won't finally
realize what it means
00:17:09.86\00:17:12.06
to live an authentic life
00:17:12.06\00:17:13.60
until we are released
from our physical bodies
00:17:13.60\00:17:16.03
and we return to that divine
fire out there in the universe.
00:17:16.03\00:17:20.04
So you gotta
wonder where they got that
00:17:21.24\00:17:23.10
because it's not
found in the Bible,
00:17:23.10\00:17:25.37
here we have a God who
makes a real material world
00:17:25.37\00:17:28.28
and He doesn't
step back and say,
00:17:28.28\00:17:29.48
oh, man, I really blew it,
00:17:29.48\00:17:31.58
He looks at what
He made and He says,
00:17:32.75\00:17:34.48
"This is very good."
00:17:34.48\00:17:36.89
According to this book,
00:17:36.89\00:17:38.42
you and I were made
for physical existence,
00:17:38.42\00:17:41.32
and this same book tells us
that God's future ideal for us,
00:17:41.32\00:17:44.49
the afterlife, it's also
going to be real and physical.
00:17:44.49\00:17:48.06
Lemme show you what
I mean from Isaiah 35,
00:17:48.06\00:17:51.07
where it talks about the future.
00:17:51.07\00:17:53.23
"Then the eyes of the
blind shall be opened,
00:17:53.23\00:17:55.77
"and the ears of the
deaf shall be unstopped.
00:17:55.77\00:17:58.21
"Then the lame man
shall leap like a deer,
00:17:58.21\00:18:00.08
"and the tongue
of the dumb sing.
00:18:00.08\00:18:01.31
"For water shall burst
forth in the wilderness,
00:18:01.31\00:18:03.61
"and streams in the desert."
00:18:03.61\00:18:06.72
What the Bible teachers is
that God is gonna return us
00:18:06.72\00:18:10.29
to our original
existence in the garden,
00:18:10.29\00:18:12.99
and this is
something you find everywhere.
00:18:12.99\00:18:14.49
I mean, listen to this one,
this comes from Revelation 22.
00:18:14.49\00:18:17.79
"And He showed me a
pure river of water of life,
00:18:17.79\00:18:20.46
"clear as crystal,
00:18:20.46\00:18:21.90
"proceeding from the
throne of God and of the Lamb.
00:18:21.90\00:18:23.57
"In the middle of its street,
00:18:23.57\00:18:25.07
"and on either side of the
river was the tree of life."
00:18:25.07\00:18:27.37
That was something
that was there in Eden.
00:18:27.37\00:18:29.27
"The tree of life
which bore twelve fruits,
00:18:29.27\00:18:31.64
"each tree yielding
its fruit every month.
00:18:31.64\00:18:33.84
"The leaves of the tree
00:18:33.84\00:18:35.18
"were for the
healing of the nations."
00:18:35.18\00:18:38.25
And there's this one,
this comes from Isaiah 65.
00:18:38.25\00:18:40.98
"For behold, I create
new heavens and a new earth,
00:18:40.98\00:18:43.55
"and the former shall not
be remembered or come to mind."
00:18:43.55\00:18:46.86
So what kinda new
earth would that be?
00:18:46.86\00:18:48.86
Well, here's what it
says just a few verses later,
00:18:48.86\00:18:51.13
"They shall build
houses and inhabit them,
00:18:51.13\00:18:53.19
"they shall plant
vineyards and eat their fruit.
00:18:53.19\00:18:55.06
"They shall not
build and another inhabit,
00:18:55.06\00:18:56.93
"they shall not
plant and another eat,
00:18:56.93\00:18:58.77
"for as the days of a tree,
00:18:58.77\00:19:00.40
"so shall be the
days of my people,
00:19:00.40\00:19:01.97
"and my elect shall long
enjoy the work of their hands."
00:19:01.97\00:19:06.98
And you do not wanna miss
where we're gonna go next,
00:19:08.44\00:19:11.48
I'll be right
back after this break.
00:19:11.48\00:19:13.48
- [Announcer] Here
at the Voice of Prophecy
00:19:15.02\00:19:16.48
we're committed to
creating top quality programming
00:19:16.48\00:19:18.99
for the whole family like
our audio adventure series
00:19:18.99\00:19:21.79
"Discovery Mountain".
00:19:21.79\00:19:23.63
Discovery Mountain
is a Bible based program
00:19:23.63\00:19:26.09
for kids of all
ages and backgrounds.
00:19:26.09\00:19:28.40
Your family will enjoy
the faith building stories
00:19:28.40\00:19:31.17
from this small
mountain summer camp Penn town
00:19:31.17\00:19:34.04
with 24 seasonal
episodes every year
00:19:34.04\00:19:36.54
and fresh content every week,
00:19:36.54\00:19:38.67
there's always a new
adventure just on the horizon.
00:19:38.67\00:19:41.84
- The Bible simply
doesn't describe an afterlife
00:19:45.11\00:19:47.72
that is non-material out there
00:19:47.72\00:19:49.12
in the misty universe somewhere,
00:19:49.12\00:19:51.39
it's a concept that you
find in Greek philosophy,
00:19:51.39\00:19:53.86
but you don't
actually find it in this book,
00:19:53.86\00:19:55.59
I mean, go ahead and
see if you can find it.
00:19:55.59\00:19:58.29
The Bible describes a
real material existence,
00:19:59.46\00:20:02.80
and the reason we have
imperfection is not because
00:20:02.80\00:20:05.07
the Creator blew
it, it's because we did.
00:20:05.07\00:20:07.67
You and I are the ones who
introduced pain and suffering
00:20:07.67\00:20:10.14
when we decided to separate
ourselves from the Creator.
00:20:10.14\00:20:13.44
The reason this world
seems like it's a dim shadow
00:20:13.44\00:20:15.81
of something higher and
better is because it is,
00:20:15.81\00:20:19.35
but that something
higher and better was is real
00:20:19.35\00:20:22.42
and physical as it gets.
00:20:22.42\00:20:25.25
So let's ask the question again,
00:20:25.25\00:20:27.89
does the real you, the one
that God originally intended,
00:20:27.89\00:20:31.79
does that exist way
out there in a theory
00:20:31.79\00:20:33.93
or a world
without physical form?
00:20:33.93\00:20:35.50
Are you really just a ghost?
00:20:35.50\00:20:38.83
Now there's no way we
can explore this question
00:20:38.83\00:20:41.17
like we should not
with the time that we have,
00:20:41.17\00:20:44.54
but I'm hoping that you're
gonna start thinking about this,
00:20:44.54\00:20:46.98
and that you'll
take time to explore
00:20:46.98\00:20:48.61
what this book actually
says to see where it takes you
00:20:48.61\00:20:52.41
because if there's one
place I wanna know for sure,
00:20:53.82\00:20:56.15
if there's one
place I don't wanna rely
00:20:56.15\00:20:58.32
on mythology and superstition,
00:20:58.32\00:21:00.12
if there's one thing I just
need certainty on it's this,
00:21:00.12\00:21:03.56
I wanna know who or what I
am and where I might be going.
00:21:03.56\00:21:08.53
I think if you look at this book
00:21:09.40\00:21:11.07
you might be
surprised by what you find.
00:21:11.07\00:21:13.97
Lemme show you just a
few more interesting passages
00:21:13.97\00:21:16.14
to help you get
started on that exploration.
00:21:16.14\00:21:18.97
For hundreds of years now,
00:21:18.97\00:21:20.48
Christians have
insisted that my real existence,
00:21:20.48\00:21:23.48
the real me is non-physical,
00:21:23.48\00:21:25.81
so we think about death
the same way Socrates did,
00:21:25.81\00:21:29.02
like a final release from a
horrible physical existence,
00:21:29.02\00:21:32.55
but I want you to
notice how Job describes it.
00:21:32.55\00:21:35.46
He says,
00:21:35.46\00:21:36.69
"For I know that
my Redeemer lives,
00:21:36.69\00:21:38.23
"and He shall stand
at last on the earth,
00:21:38.23\00:21:40.96
"and after my
skin is destroyed,"
00:21:40.96\00:21:43.20
In other words he dies.
00:21:43.20\00:21:44.87
"This I know, that in
my flesh I shall see God."
00:21:44.87\00:21:49.50
So you tell me,
00:21:49.50\00:21:51.91
how do you reconcile that with
the teachings of the Greeks?
00:21:51.91\00:21:55.74
Maybe Tertullian was right,
00:21:55.74\00:21:58.05
maybe there is no harmony
between Athens and Jerusalem,
00:21:58.05\00:22:01.42
maybe our reason,
00:22:01.42\00:22:03.12
our logic 'cause it
has actually taken us
00:22:03.12\00:22:04.85
in the wrong direction,
00:22:04.85\00:22:06.25
pointing us to
something that just isn't so.
00:22:06.25\00:22:10.43
I mean, think
about it like this,
00:22:10.43\00:22:12.53
in the beginning God
made a very physical world,
00:22:12.53\00:22:15.16
populated by very physical
real people, and He said,
00:22:15.16\00:22:18.13
"That is very good."
00:22:18.13\00:22:20.10
That's what He wanted to make,
00:22:20.10\00:22:22.00
and in the the original plan,
00:22:22.87\00:22:24.07
you and I were
never supposed to die,
00:22:24.07\00:22:26.07
that was never going to happen.
00:22:26.07\00:22:28.78
And now what God has
planned for the future,
00:22:28.78\00:22:31.51
is a complete restoration
of the physical world
00:22:31.51\00:22:34.28
that used to be, a
new heavens and a earth,
00:22:34.28\00:22:37.85
so we're going
back to that original,
00:22:37.85\00:22:40.46
perfect physical existence.
00:22:40.46\00:22:43.93
So if we were
physical to start with,
00:22:43.93\00:22:46.19
and we will be restored to
that same physical perfection,
00:22:46.19\00:22:50.27
what would be the
purpose of locating the real you
00:22:50.27\00:22:54.60
anywhere except in
the real physical you?
00:22:54.60\00:22:59.34
What would be the
purpose of a ghost
00:22:59.34\00:23:01.88
that leaves during a death
00:23:01.88\00:23:03.95
that was never
supposed to happen?
00:23:03.95\00:23:06.11
You know, right now
scientists have figured out
00:23:07.45\00:23:09.62
that if you freeze a human
brain, or even just a part of
00:23:09.62\00:23:12.22
it, you can thought
out and bring it back.
00:23:12.22\00:23:14.49
As I mentioned on
another show, a few rich people
00:23:14.49\00:23:16.89
have already put
their brains on ice,
00:23:16.89\00:23:18.79
hoping for the day
when they can be revived
00:23:18.79\00:23:20.73
and cured of
whatever killed them.
00:23:20.73\00:23:23.43
So let's say that
it takes a 100 years,
00:23:23.43\00:23:25.97
your brain is
frozen for a century.
00:23:25.97\00:23:28.40
During that time, where are you?
00:23:28.40\00:23:30.94
And when they thought you out,
00:23:30.94\00:23:32.31
and we know they can do this
00:23:32.31\00:23:33.54
because they've
already done it with animals.
00:23:33.54\00:23:34.84
When they thought you out,
00:23:34.84\00:23:36.48
do you suddenly come back
from a non-physical afterlife
00:23:36.48\00:23:39.18
and resume your
physical existence?
00:23:39.18\00:23:42.28
It doesn't make sense,
00:23:42.28\00:23:44.12
and it doesn't harmonize with
the way the Bible presents it.
00:23:44.12\00:23:46.82
I mean, just read
Genesis 2, it says,
00:23:46.82\00:23:49.42
"The Lord God formed man
of the dust of the ground,
00:23:49.42\00:23:52.33
"and breathed into his
nostrils the breath of life,
00:23:52.33\00:23:54.46
"and man became a living being."
00:23:54.46\00:23:58.47
This is how you're
supposed to be real and physical
00:23:58.47\00:24:02.67
except that you're
gonna get a bit of an upgrade
00:24:02.67\00:24:04.74
when God finally puts you back
00:24:04.74\00:24:06.24
to where you're supposed to be,
00:24:06.24\00:24:07.64
the pain and suffering
will disappear for good.
00:24:07.64\00:24:11.58
I'll be right back after this.
00:24:11.58\00:24:13.88
- [Announcer] Dragons,
beasts, cryptic statues,
00:24:16.15\00:24:19.25
Bible prophecy can be
incredibly vivid and confusing.
00:24:20.56\00:24:24.99
If you've ever read
Daniel or Revelation
00:24:24.99\00:24:27.20
and come away scratching
your head, you're not alone.
00:24:27.20\00:24:30.20
Our free Focus
on Prophecy guides
00:24:30.20\00:24:32.57
are designed to help you unlock
the mysteries of the Bible
00:24:32.57\00:24:35.37
and deepen your
understanding of God's plan
00:24:35.37\00:24:37.81
for you and our world.
00:24:37.81\00:24:39.47
Study online, or
request them by mail,
00:24:39.47\00:24:41.88
and start bringing
prophecy into focus today.
00:24:41.88\00:24:44.78
- You know, over the years,
00:24:46.41\00:24:47.88
a lot of Christians have
wondered about all of this.
00:24:47.88\00:24:49.75
How does it work?
00:24:49.75\00:24:51.42
You know, who am I?
00:24:51.42\00:24:53.29
Is this the seat
of my consciousness?
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Do I leave my body when I die?
00:24:54.59\00:24:57.43
What happens after
you draw your last breath?
00:24:57.43\00:25:00.10
And well, as they
begin to explore the subject,
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they're in for a few surprises,
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the Bible has a few surprises
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and then they go back to history
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and start looking at what
people have said about this,
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from Martin Luther down to
the great Lutheran theologian
00:25:09.84\00:25:13.17
of the 20th
century Oscar Coleman.
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And as people look,
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more and more are
discovering that the Bible gives
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a lot more detail about this
stuff than you think it does.
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This book has incredible,
00:25:25.22\00:25:27.76
incredible detail
about who you really are,
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where you came from
and what actually happens
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when you draw your
last breath and die.
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And I know I've opened a
huge can of worms here because
00:25:37.87\00:25:42.07
well, we didn't
have a lot of time,
00:25:42.07\00:25:43.91
and so I've kinda left
you with just the beginnings
00:25:43.91\00:25:47.08
of a study and it's a
little disconcerting to think,
00:25:47.08\00:25:50.05
well, maybe I've been wrong
about something so essential.
00:25:50.05\00:25:52.98
And I guarantee
after what we just did,
00:25:52.98\00:25:55.42
you've got a lot of
questions about this.
00:25:55.42\00:25:57.99
I know I still have
lingering questions,
00:25:57.99\00:26:00.96
the more I read
this book though,
00:26:00.96\00:26:03.49
the more I discover
that the detail is all there.
00:26:03.49\00:26:06.76
So here's what I've done for you
00:26:06.76\00:26:07.96
because we're out of
time for another week,
00:26:07.96\00:26:10.03
I've put together a little
book that talked somewhat about
00:26:10.03\00:26:13.34
the Greek influence
on Christian thought,
00:26:13.34\00:26:15.80
how it made its
way into Christianity.
00:26:15.80\00:26:18.41
And this little book takes
you through the entire Bible
00:26:18.41\00:26:21.51
and it asks some
really important questions,
00:26:21.51\00:26:25.01
it's called, "Draining the Styx:
00:26:25.01\00:26:27.62
"Taking the Mystery
Out of Death and Hell".
00:26:27.62\00:26:30.65
Now it probably won't
answer all of your questions,
00:26:30.65\00:26:34.22
I mean, it's a big subject
00:26:34.22\00:26:35.69
and people have wrestled
with it for thousands of years,
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but this will take you through
00:26:37.83\00:26:39.59
all of the major Bible
passages that describe this.
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So for example, what does
God intend for your future?
00:26:43.43\00:26:46.77
After you die what happens next?
00:26:46.77\00:26:48.80
Are we really going to be
strumming harps on clouds?
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Is that anywhere in the Bible?
00:26:51.97\00:26:53.51
Do we become angels when we die?
00:26:53.51\00:26:55.61
Are we gonna just
float around in the ether
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and become part of the
great cosmic consciousness?
00:26:57.85\00:27:00.35
Or is the afterlife a real,
tangible, physical existence
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with Christ who if you
read the Bible carefully
00:27:04.92\00:27:08.42
you'll discover
also rose from the dead
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with a real physical body.
00:27:11.99\00:27:14.30
Just navigate to our website,
00:27:14.30\00:27:16.77
you're gonna find this
book there for really cheap,
00:27:16.77\00:27:18.93
I'm practically
giving the whole thing away
00:27:18.93\00:27:21.67
because I'd like you to have it.
00:27:21.67\00:27:23.17
It's called "Draining the Styx"
00:27:23.17\00:27:24.34
go to store.vop,
Victor, Oscar, Peter,
00:27:24.34\00:27:28.28
store.vop.com to
get "Draining the Styx".
00:27:28.28\00:27:32.68
Now I am out of time,
00:27:32.68\00:27:34.18
so you start your explanation
00:27:34.18\00:27:36.52
and I'll meet
you right back here
00:27:36.52\00:27:38.25
at the same time next week.
00:27:38.25\00:27:40.46
Thanks for joining me,
00:27:40.46\00:27:41.72
I'm Shawn Boonstra,
00:27:41.72\00:27:43.02
this has been Authentic.
00:27:43.02\00:27:45.63
[light music]
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