This is what we call
an "Anchors Away" program
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where we are away from 3ABN.
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We are out in the field,
and this time we are at the
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Central Seventh-day
Adventist Church in Sacramento,
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California. This
is the church that
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Pastor Doug Batchelor is
pastor, senior pastor, of.
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And it's just been a tremendous
week that we've been here
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since Wednesday, and we've en-
joyed every single minute of it.
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You folks have
really made us feel at home.
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Want to thank you. Want to thank
the production crew here...
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volunteers in the church
that really do a tremendous job.
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And we just thank them
for their cooperation as well.
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We're looking forward to
this afternoon's subject.
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Pastor Doug Batchelor is
going to be speaking again on
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Truths That Divide.
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You know, there are some
things that actually do divide
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rather than unite, and we
are divided in Christianity
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on a number of questions.
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And this afternoon we're
going to be looking at one more
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of those questions.
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Why don't we have a little
prayer together right now?
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Father in heaven,
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we thank you for Jesus.
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We thank you, Lord,
that He was willing to come
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and to live and to die
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and to come forth from the tomb.
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To go back to heaven to
minister in the sanctuary.
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And all of this to bring
about life for each one of us.
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We pray, Father, that You
will help every single person
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that's watching today to make
sure that they've accepted Him
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as their Savior
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and to receive the
gift of life eternal.
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We thank you for
hearing us in Jesus' name, Amen.
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Well Pastor Doug, this
is the fifth in this series,
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and we have been just
thrilled to be with you.
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Tell me a little about what
is the subject this afternoon.
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Well we're going to be dealing
with something that is a very
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controversial subject:
talking about the afterlife.
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All right. In particular,
death, the subject of hell,
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and then we thought
we'd end on a positive note
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and talk about
heaven. All right!
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You're going to cover all of
that in one... one lecture, huh?
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Yeah. Well, not going to
be covered thoroughly but
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we're going to
cover as much as we can.
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You and Pastor Barney?
Pastor Barney is our guest
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tonight, yes. All right.
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Well, I'm going to get out
of your way so you have all
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the time - thank you so
much - that you can use.
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All right... God
bless you. God bless you.
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Thank you sir. And
again we want to thank 3ABN
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for partnering with
us in this program. Amen?
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Amen. And I want to tell
our friends at home if you are
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grateful that we're able to
put together programs like this
00:03:24.90\00:03:27.88
both 3ABN and Amazing Facts
are entirely self-supporting
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ministries. And if you'd like
to make a donation to help them
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keep providing
Christian programming
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you can go to the website that
you'll see on your screen there.
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It's very easy to remember.
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Just like our names -
3ABN.org AmazingFacts. org -
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and you can just
follow the links there.
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Again welcome to the
Doctrines that Divide program.
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And in this evening's
presentation we're going to be
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talking about a few
doctrinal truths that are...
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are a little controversial.
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Now in this series
we are talking about
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some of the beliefs of Seventh-
day Adventist Christians.
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It says
Christians, Adventist there.
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And then it says
Other Christians.
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And again, there are a lot
of other dear Christian people
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Seventh-day Adventists
believe in other churches.
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We freely agree the majority
of Christ's true followers
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are in the
fellowship of other churches.
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The Seventh-day Adventist
church does not view itself as
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a denomination. We
view ourselves as a movement
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of prophecy into
which people are called
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from all
different walks of life.
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Indeed, the Seventh-day
Adventist church was formed
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as a coalescing of people
from several denominations
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that came together and said:
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"let's return to
Biblical truth. "
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And so that's my appeal
to you during this series.
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I believe
before Jesus comes back
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He's going to have a
people united in the Word.
00:05:01.43\00:05:04.43
His church is going to
truly be of one accord.
00:05:04.46\00:05:08.15
And so we're talking
about some of these distinctive
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doctrinal differences.
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And in some ways
tonight's subject is going to be
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more difficult for some people
than others we've presented.
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Some people shrug when you talk
about the Seventh-day Adventist
00:05:20.64\00:05:23.90
view on the dietary things.
00:05:24.10\00:05:27.02
They say: "Well you
know that's good for health.
00:05:27.12\00:05:28.44
There's a lot of
science behind it. "
00:05:28.64\00:05:30.16
And when we talk about the
sanctuary and the cleansing
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they say: "Well you know,
that's also very interesting. "
00:05:34.56\00:05:37.09
Sabbath? "Well, we
all need a day of rest. "
00:05:37.39\00:05:40.22
But when you start talking about
what happens when a person dies
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people really get
very animated about that.
00:05:45.29\00:05:48.73
And so we're going to be talking
tonight about those subjects
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of death, hell, and then
we'll be talking a little bit
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about heaven.
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And so once again, if you
haven't heard me explain this
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before, I am wearing this
special suit or this uniform
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and the purpose of this
is to help you visualize.
00:06:03.95\00:06:08.42
When I'm on this side,
I'm representing Pastor Doug.
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And when I'm on this side
I'm representing a figment of my
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imagination. We are
calling him Pastor Barney.
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And I guess that I should give
you more of a silhouette here
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'cause Pastor Barney's
kind of in the white suit
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and Pastor Doug is
over here in the black suit.
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I'm going to be arguing
from this side what I believe
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the Biblical
positions are on these subjects
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as a Seventh-day
Adventist. I am biased.
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And on this side I'll be
sharing with you what I believed
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back before I was a
Seventh-day Adventist...
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worshiping and preaching
in churches in the other
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evangelical churches.
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And so with that maybe I
should introduce the first point
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in our study talking about the
subject of death in particular.
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Now if you go to
a church cemetery...
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I remember when I lived in Texas
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and there's a lot of churches
there that are Church of Christ,
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Baptist, Methodist churches.
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Every little town used to have
a church 'cause they were all
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little farming communities.
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Unfortunately in
the last 60-70 years
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people have
migrated to the cities.
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A lot of these
little churches have closed.
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And sometimes on a Sabbath
afternoon I'd go for a walk
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with the family in some
of these church cemeteries
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and just read the tombstones.
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And it was interesting
that within the same Methodist
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or Baptist or
Church of Christ cemetery
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you would immediately detect
there was confusion on the
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subject of death.
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You'd see one tombstone
and it would say for example:
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"Our beloved father,
now resting in Jesus,
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waiting for the
resurrection trump"
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or something like that.
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Then you'd go look at
another tombstone. It would say:
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"Our dear mother, now
walking on the golden streets
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in glory. "
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And you're
wondering... where are they?
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They weren't too sure.
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A lot of them said RIP.
What does that stand for?
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Rest in peace.
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And, you know, so
sometimes you think that means
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they're resting in peace.
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Others would have
beautiful poems about
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"now in the arms of Jesus. "
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And there's just a lot of
confusion about this subject
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of death. And so with
that quick introduction
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we're going to get into our
first question for tonight's
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presentation.
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Number one:
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All right, we're going
to let Pastor Doug start out
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with some of these scriptures.
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Now this represents pretty
much the Adventist position.
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Ecclesiastes 9 verses 5 and 6:
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When they're dead they're
not envying; they're not loving;
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they're not
hating... they're asleep.
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Ecclesiastes 9 verse 10... you
just jump down to the 10th verse
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same chapter:
"Whatever your hand finds to do
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do it with your might.
For there is no work or device
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or knowledge or wisdom in
the grave where you're going. "
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People in the grave have no
knowledge. They have no wisdom.
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And you would think the
first thing a person would do
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if you die and you go
immediately to be with Jesus
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I'd be praising
the Lord, wouldn't you?
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But here's what King
David said in Psalm 115:
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"The dead do not praise the Lord
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nor any who go
down into silence. "
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Pastor Doug, I've just got
to interrupt you right there.
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You're reading
from the Old Testament.
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It wasn't until the resurrection
of Jesus that He liberated
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all the souls that
were in their graves.
00:10:02.59\00:10:04.66
After the resurrection of
Jesus they went on to glory
00:10:04.86\00:10:07.85
to be with Christ.
00:10:08.05\00:10:09.06
But Pastor Barney, I know
I just read from King David,
00:10:09.26\00:10:13.09
but when you go
to Acts chapter 2
00:10:13.29\00:10:15.22
and Peter is preaching
his sermon on Pentecost
00:10:15.42\00:10:17.72
he said: "My brethren,
let me freely speak about
00:10:17.75\00:10:21.38
the patriarch David that he
is both dead and buried... "
00:10:21.58\00:10:25.65
A few verses later...
"and not ascended to heaven. "
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So even after the
resurrection, Pentecost happens
00:10:29.22\00:10:32.93
50 days after the Passover
00:10:33.13\00:10:36.36
and David still
hasn't made it to heaven yet.
00:10:36.56\00:10:39.16
Peter said that he's "dead
and buried and not ascended
00:10:39.46\00:10:42.25
into heaven. " But I still have
a verse or two to read on that.
00:10:42.35\00:10:46.26
John 11 verse 11:
00:10:46.56\00:10:48.89
And so in the Bible it
speaks of death as a sleep.
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This is a dreamless
sleep and it's unconscious.
00:11:01.64\00:11:04.66
Again, you can read Psalm 146.
00:11:04.87\00:11:08.14
Says: "Put not your trust
in princes or in the son of man
00:11:08.34\00:11:10.95
in whom there is no
help. In the day that he dies
00:11:11.15\00:11:13.34
his breath goes forth
and his thoughts perish. "
00:11:13.55\00:11:17.17
So people who are dead are
not plotting vengeance on you.
00:11:17.57\00:11:21.20
They're not thinking
anything... they're dead.
00:11:21.40\00:11:22.93
What do you
think, Pastor Barney?
00:11:23.34\00:11:25.16
Well I do have some thoughts.
I've got some scriptures too.
00:11:25.56\00:11:28.56
II Corinthians 5:8.
00:11:28.76\00:11:31.19
As a matter of fact, in
that same chapter several times
00:11:38.84\00:11:41.07
it talks about
being absent from the body
00:11:41.17\00:11:43.74
and being present with the Lord.
00:11:43.94\00:11:45.64
I have a thought on that
00:11:48.42\00:11:49.83
before you go
to your next verse.
00:11:49.93\00:11:51.06
Probably ought to explain that.
00:11:51.27\00:11:52.99
I agree with you that
to be absent from this life
00:11:53.29\00:11:57.62
your next conscious thought
is the presence of the Lord.
00:11:57.82\00:12:00.92
See because we believe
that if you're a Christian
00:12:01.23\00:12:04.53
and you die, the next
thing that you think of
00:12:04.73\00:12:07.60
is the resurrection. You
have no knowledge at all,
00:12:07.80\00:12:10.36
not even like a restless sleep.
00:12:10.56\00:12:12.47
It's like a person who
has been dead for 500 years
00:12:12.67\00:12:16.95
it's not going to seem
like 500 years for them.
00:12:17.15\00:12:19.21
Or if you go to sleep
after a hard day's work
00:12:19.41\00:12:21.50
and then the alarm clock
goes off seven hours later
00:12:21.71\00:12:24.65
but how long
does it feel to you?
00:12:24.85\00:12:26.54
I heard one time about
a man during World War I
00:12:27.68\00:12:30.09
who was on the battlefield.
He was directing artillery
00:12:30.29\00:12:33.44
and in the midst
of a very hot battle
00:12:33.64\00:12:37.07
he was ready to
give the order to fire.
00:12:37.27\00:12:40.12
He said: "Ready, Aim...
" And then a mortar shell
00:12:40.32\00:12:43.52
exploded very close to him.
00:12:43.55\00:12:45.40
Well, he was taken to
the local field hospital.
00:12:45.70\00:12:49.03
They realized that he had a
piece of shrapnel in his head
00:12:49.23\00:12:52.00
and it was very serious.
00:12:52.10\00:12:53.41
They waited to operate until
they could get him to France.
00:12:53.61\00:12:56.65
They took him to France,
and in a hospital there in Paris
00:12:56.85\00:12:59.39
they performed the surgery.
00:12:59.59\00:13:01.06
And when they removed the
shrapnel - he was unconscious
00:13:01.26\00:13:03.85
so they didn't
use any anesthetic -
00:13:04.05\00:13:05.45
when they removed the
shrapnel from his brain
00:13:05.65\00:13:08.17
he jumped and said: "Fire! "
00:13:08.37\00:13:10.27
It had basically just
stopped the tape for him.
00:13:12.51\00:13:15.74
I don't know how that worked,
00:13:15.94\00:13:17.76
but his next conscious thought
was - even though it was a few
00:13:17.96\00:13:20.26
days after accident - he just
picked up where he left off.
00:13:20.36\00:13:24.11
And so we believe to
be absent from the body
00:13:24.42\00:13:27.65
the next conscious thought
for the believer is the presence
00:13:27.85\00:13:30.30
of the Lord. And keep in mind:
00:13:30.50\00:13:32.48
God lives in all
dimensions of time.
00:13:32.78\00:13:35.74
In other words, God is
from everlasting to everlasting.
00:13:36.04\00:13:40.47
And that means that God can
take a prophet a million years
00:13:40.77\00:13:44.61
backwards in time and
show him a war in heaven.
00:13:44.81\00:13:47.56
Not that it was a
million years ago.
00:13:47.76\00:13:49.70
God can take a
prophet a thousand years ahead
00:13:49.90\00:13:52.46
in the future and give him
a three-dimensional picture
00:13:52.56\00:13:55.64
of that. And so, you know,
God doesn't live in the same
00:13:55.84\00:14:00.00
dimension of time.
So if you're a believer
00:14:00.10\00:14:02.35
and you die - or an unbeliever
- your next conscious thought
00:14:02.55\00:14:05.54
is the resurrection of
the just or the unjust.
00:14:05.74\00:14:08.94
Carry on.
00:14:09.28\00:14:10.67
Well thank you very
much for that explanation.
00:14:10.97\00:14:13.49
I do have another
verse or two here.
00:14:13.79\00:14:16.90
It says in Matthew 22 verse 32
00:14:18.13\00:14:21.91
And so these people
aren't dead, they're living.
00:14:32.29\00:14:35.76
They're with Jesus.
00:14:35.96\00:14:37.05
Well, I agree
that they are living.
00:14:38.12\00:14:39.95
When a person is
asleep are they dead or alive?
00:14:40.15\00:14:42.57
Well yeah, they're...
technically they're alive.
00:14:44.49\00:14:47.37
Well I agree. I think
when a person dies in the Lord
00:14:47.57\00:14:51.23
they're just sleeping.
Jesus said: "Our friend Lazarus
00:14:51.43\00:14:53.30
is asleep. " And just
think about that for a second,
00:14:53.40\00:14:56.64
friends. And this by the
way is in John chapter 11...
00:14:56.74\00:14:59.47
the whole story there.
00:14:59.67\00:15:00.75
How long had Lazarus been dead?
00:15:00.96\00:15:02.95
Four days
00:15:04.52\00:15:06.11
by the time that
Jesus came to resurrect him.
00:15:06.31\00:15:08.86
There are about 12
resurrections in the Bible.
00:15:08.96\00:15:12.08
And I don't know what you
think it would have been like
00:15:13.61\00:15:16.43
back then, but I know today
00:15:16.54\00:15:18.30
that if someone had
been dead for four days
00:15:18.50\00:15:20.50
and they were raised, the
next thing that would happen
00:15:20.70\00:15:23.83
is every media agency
in the world would show up.
00:15:24.03\00:15:27.39
They would have a
whole bouquet of microphones
00:15:27.59\00:15:30.79
in front of them, and the first
question they would ask is:
00:15:30.99\00:15:33.87
"What was it like
when you were dead? "
00:15:33.97\00:15:36.31
The amazing thing about
all the resurrections that are
00:15:36.61\00:15:39.39
performed in the Bible
there is not one person
00:15:39.49\00:15:42.24
who comments on what
they saw or experienced
00:15:42.44\00:15:45.35
during their death...
which leads me to believe
00:15:45.45\00:15:47.78
maybe they didn't
experience anything.
00:15:47.99\00:15:50.60
And if Lazarus was
dead for four days...
00:15:50.90\00:15:54.42
think about that.
00:15:54.65\00:15:56.00
Let's suppose for a
moment Lazarus was lost
00:15:56.20\00:15:58.56
and when he died his
next conscious thought was
00:15:58.76\00:16:00.89
he was in Hades.
00:16:01.09\00:16:02.48
And then Jesus raised him.
00:16:02.88\00:16:04.75
You would think that Lazarus
would say something like:
00:16:04.95\00:16:06.94
"Thank you, Lord. It
was terribly uncomfortable.
00:16:07.14\00:16:09.23
The pain was excruciating.
I'm so glad to be back. "
00:16:09.43\00:16:12.45
No comment. If
Lazarus - you'd think after
00:16:12.65\00:16:16.26
four days that the shuttle
would finally arrive in heaven -
00:16:16.46\00:16:18.67
if Lazarus had been in heaven
00:16:18.87\00:16:20.75
and here he is with
his glorified body and he's
00:16:20.95\00:16:23.25
talking to the angels
and he's walking and dancing
00:16:23.45\00:16:26.59
and flying around the golden
city and the golden streets
00:16:26.79\00:16:29.75
and reaching out for the Tree
of Life... and all of a sudden
00:16:29.95\00:16:33.37
he finds himself back in a tomb
wrapped up in grave clothes.
00:16:33.47\00:16:36.43
Would you say:
"Thank you, Jesus" for that?
00:16:36.73\00:16:40.16
No. Lazarus makes
absolutely no comment about the
00:16:40.46\00:16:44.30
resurrection
because he was asleep.
00:16:44.40\00:16:47.14
And that's not my
opinion or my interpretation.
00:16:47.44\00:16:50.02
Jesus said: "Our
friend Lazarus is asleep. "
00:16:50.22\00:16:53.95
And when they said: "Oh,
if he's sick and he's asleep
00:16:54.15\00:16:56.23
that's good. He'll
start feeling better. "
00:16:56.43\00:16:57.76
Jesus said: "No, he's dead. "
00:16:57.96\00:16:59.71
So sleep is a word that
God uses to describe death.
00:17:00.11\00:17:04.13
This is not something
Seventh-day Adventists
00:17:04.43\00:17:05.72
have manufactured.
00:17:05.82\00:17:07.23
All right. Well, let's go
back to another point here
00:17:07.53\00:17:11.09
on the same subject.
00:17:11.19\00:17:12.47
Pastor Barney,
would you like to start?
00:17:21.04\00:17:22.95
Thank you Pastor Doug.
00:17:23.05\00:17:24.10
I'm glad we can be
cordial with each other.
00:17:24.20\00:17:25.86
Luke 23 verse 43
00:17:26.16\00:17:28.54
That means Jesus promised
that thief right that day
00:17:35.99\00:17:39.74
that they would be
together in paradise.
00:17:39.94\00:17:41.99
That doesn't mean that he
had to wait for the resurrection
00:17:42.29\00:17:44.98
or he had to wait
for the judgment day.
00:17:45.08\00:17:46.46
Jesus said: "Today...
today, you'll be with Me
00:17:46.66\00:17:49.84
in paradise. " What
do you think of that?
00:17:50.04\00:17:52.50
Well that is a good point.
00:17:53.97\00:17:55.13
Now this is sometimes
difficult to explain to people
00:17:55.43\00:17:57.99
because you have to
tell them there is an error
00:17:58.19\00:18:02.14
in the
translation. Not in the Bible.
00:18:02.34\00:18:04.86
In the original Bible
there is no punctuation.
00:18:05.16\00:18:09.37
Bible
translators... and by the way,
00:18:09.67\00:18:12.02
anyone can translate a Bible...
00:18:12.22\00:18:13.76
You don't have to be
inspired to translate a Bible.
00:18:13.96\00:18:16.57
You're taking it from
one language and putting it
00:18:16.78\00:18:18.21
in another language.
00:18:18.32\00:18:19.47
And some translations
are more inspired than others
00:18:19.77\00:18:22.62
in my opinion.
00:18:22.72\00:18:23.80
But they had to decide
"where do we put the comma? "
00:18:24.93\00:18:27.39
And in the King James
and most English translations
00:18:27.59\00:18:30.65
the way they did it - and it
was done back because they were
00:18:30.85\00:18:33.91
supporting the popular belief
you die and go right to heaven
00:18:34.12\00:18:36.42
or hell - they wrote
it: "Verily I say to you, "
00:18:36.52\00:18:40.31
today you'll be
with Me in paradise. "
00:18:40.51\00:18:44.28
But one reason
that's a big problem is
00:18:44.52\00:18:47.44
if you read in
John chapter 20 verse 17
00:18:47.64\00:18:49.82
it's not possible for the thief
to be with Jesus in paradise
00:18:50.02\00:18:53.82
that same day 'cause
Jesus didn't make it to paradise
00:18:54.02\00:18:57.22
that day. When Mary
went to grab Him by the feet
00:18:57.42\00:19:00.52
and to worship Him He said:
00:19:00.72\00:19:02.55
"Do not detain
Me... do not touch Me... "
00:19:02.75\00:19:04.86
Now when was it that
Mary showed up at the tomb
00:19:08.76\00:19:11.12
and He told her that?
That would be Sunday morning.
00:19:11.22\00:19:13.89
So if Jesus hadn't made it
to heaven yet Sunday morning,
00:19:15.48\00:19:19.73
then how could He have
been with the thief in paradise
00:19:19.97\00:19:23.61
Sunday morning?
00:19:23.81\00:19:25.13
Pardon... I meant the same day.
00:19:26.31\00:19:28.73
I meant the same day.
00:19:28.93\00:19:30.17
Well that's because
there's another place
00:19:32.29\00:19:36.19
called paradise
that is not heaven
00:19:36.29\00:19:39.05
but he was with Jesus
wherever that place is.
00:19:39.25\00:19:41.20
Ah, Revelation says that
00:19:42.35\00:19:44.58
His Father is in
heaven and that is paradise.
00:19:44.78\00:19:48.28
So He had not yet
ascended to His Father
00:19:48.48\00:19:50.56
and the Father's in paradise,
00:19:50.59\00:19:51.76
Christ had not yet
been to heaven or paradise.
00:19:51.96\00:19:54.22
Jesus was in the tomb.
Penalty for sin is death.
00:19:54.42\00:19:57.10
Penalty for sin is not some kind
of trans-spiritual migration.
00:19:57.30\00:20:01.01
The thief could not
be with Him that day.
00:20:01.21\00:20:03.45
And there's another reason
to doubt the thief could be
00:20:03.65\00:20:05.73
with Him that day:
it's simply because
00:20:05.83\00:20:08.34
we're not even sure
the thief died that day.
00:20:08.54\00:20:10.79
He was still alive after
Jesus died, and they tried
00:20:11.00\00:20:13.93
to accelerate their
death by breaking their legs
00:20:14.03\00:20:16.39
but the Bible doesn't
record how long that took.
00:20:16.59\00:20:18.93
They were hoping that
they'd die before the Sabbath.
00:20:19.13\00:20:21.20
You remember? And
so it doesn't say.
00:20:21.40\00:20:23.83
We don't even know when he died.
00:20:24.03\00:20:25.39
But the way to
really look at that...
00:20:25.59\00:20:29.56
just take the comma.
Put it where it belongs.
00:20:29.96\00:20:32.69
"Verily I say to you today, "
00:20:32.99\00:20:34.45
The emphasis Jesus is making is
00:20:34.65\00:20:37.00
"I'm telling you
today. You called me a Lord,
00:20:37.20\00:20:41.48
you called me a
King... " And by the way,
00:20:41.68\00:20:43.77
you notice Pastor
Barney, the thief said to Jesus:
00:20:43.97\00:20:46.81
"When You come into
Your kingdom remember me. "
00:20:47.01\00:20:50.37
Jesus was promising him that day
00:20:50.57\00:20:52.15
"I will remember you
when I come into My kingdom. "
00:20:52.35\00:20:54.96
He didn't go to
His kingdom that day.
00:20:55.16\00:20:56.63
The Bible says that
He receives His kingdom
00:20:56.83\00:20:59.28
when He comes back for us.
00:20:59.48\00:21:00.70
So He was emphasizing: "Today
I don't look like a king. "
00:21:01.66\00:21:07.34
He was hanging on a cross.
00:21:07.54\00:21:08.59
"Today I don't
look like a Lord. "
00:21:08.79\00:21:10.54
"Today I don't look
like I can save anybody,
00:21:10.74\00:21:13.35
but I'll make it a
promise to you today because you
00:21:13.56\00:21:15.60
reached out to Me in faith
00:21:15.70\00:21:17.94
that you will be
with Me in paradise.
00:21:18.14\00:21:20.79
I'm promising you today you
will be with Me in paradise. "
00:21:20.99\00:21:24.52
That's what Jesus was saying.
00:21:24.72\00:21:26.43
The original
Greek supports that.
00:21:26.63\00:21:28.50
There was no punctuation
when Luke wrote that.
00:21:28.70\00:21:31.01
It's only in the gospel of Luke.
Do not build a whole doctrine
00:21:31.21\00:21:34.90
on somebody's placing a
comma who is not necessarily
00:21:35.10\00:21:38.69
inspired or holy.
00:21:38.79\00:21:40.03
And I think that's
actually a beautiful explanation
00:21:40.23\00:21:44.57
for that passage.
00:21:44.77\00:21:45.99
All right.
Let's move along here.
00:21:46.29\00:21:49.87
Number three:
00:21:50.17\00:21:51.84
Pastor Barney?
00:21:56.00\00:21:57.78
Ecclesiastes 12 verse 7.
00:21:57.98\00:22:00.41
Good enough for me.
00:22:00.61\00:22:02.13
So as soon as a person dies
the spirit goes to be with God.
00:22:08.25\00:22:11.63
Well, we need to talk
about what these words mean.
00:22:13.66\00:22:16.50
First of all, to
understand what that spirit is
00:22:16.70\00:22:19.88
and where it goes we
need to know something about
00:22:20.08\00:22:21.88
how God makes
men in the beginning.
00:22:22.08\00:22:23.72
In Genesis chapter 2 verse 7
00:22:23.93\00:22:26.27
when God first
created man it says:
00:22:26.45\00:22:29.25
So the combination
of that breath of life
00:22:39.81\00:22:42.03
and the body that the
Lord had just framed of Adam
00:22:42.23\00:22:46.73
then equaled a living soul.
00:22:46.93\00:22:49.81
The word for spirit there
is the same word as breath.
00:22:50.01\00:22:54.31
It's the Hebrew
word ruach and it means
00:22:54.51\00:22:57.12
breath... the breath of life.
It's inanimate; it doesn't have
00:22:57.33\00:23:00.24
personality. It is the power,
the force, that God breathes
00:23:00.34\00:23:03.60
into all of His creatures.
00:23:03.80\00:23:04.99
And so the verse that
you just read in Ecclesiastes
00:23:05.19\00:23:08.05
is saying that when
somebody dies... You notice
00:23:08.25\00:23:11.35
Ecclesiastes
doesn't say good or bad?
00:23:11.45\00:23:14.41
That the body decomposes
and turns back into the dust
00:23:15.69\00:23:19.37
of the earth. God said to
Adam: "Dust you are and to dust
00:23:19.57\00:23:22.13
you're going to return. "
00:23:22.23\00:23:23.36
The spirit or the breath
of life - the power of life,
00:23:23.56\00:23:26.75
the essence of life -
returns to God who gave it.
00:23:26.95\00:23:30.41
If we should unplug
the power in this building
00:23:30.61\00:23:33.44
and all the lights go out
- don't try that right now -
00:23:33.64\00:23:35.93
you'd say:
"Where'd the light go? "
00:23:37.53\00:23:39.34
Well, the light stops
being light for us when
00:23:39.54\00:23:42.56
you disconnect the carbon
filaments with the electricity.
00:23:42.76\00:23:46.56
It's the two together
that produce the light.
00:23:46.76\00:23:49.16
If I should take some
sticks of wood and some nails
00:23:49.36\00:23:53.03
and put them together
and make a chair and I'd say:
00:23:53.23\00:23:56.06
"Here, the combination of
those nails and those sticks
00:23:56.20\00:23:58.44
we've made a chair. "
00:23:58.64\00:23:59.82
But now I separate the nails...
Don't try and sit on the chair!
00:24:00.02\00:24:03.80
I separate the nails from
the wood and I've got a pile
00:24:04.00\00:24:07.09
of sticks here and
a pile of nails here
00:24:07.19\00:24:09.12
and I ask you:
"Where is the chair? "
00:24:09.32\00:24:11.51
Well it stopped being a
chair when you separate the two.
00:24:11.71\00:24:15.48
The breath of life
and the elements of earth
00:24:15.68\00:24:19.32
God animates it
into a living soul.
00:24:19.62\00:24:22.34
When a man, good or bad...
when an animal, good or bad...
00:24:22.54\00:24:26.13
dies, the elements of earth
decompose back into the dust.
00:24:26.33\00:24:30.08
The power of life - the
breath of life - returns to God
00:24:30.28\00:24:33.48
who gave it. Let me give
you another verse on that.
00:24:33.59\00:24:35.87
Job 27 verse 3.
00:24:36.17\00:24:39.37
"All the while
my breath is in me
00:24:39.67\00:24:43.11
and the spirit of
God is in my nostrils. "
00:24:43.21\00:24:46.85
Now you've heard people say
00:24:47.05\00:24:49.23
"He's got the
spirit in his mind. "
00:24:49.43\00:24:52.06
"He's got the
spirit in his heart. "
00:24:52.26\00:24:53.61
But if I were to ask
you "would you like to be
00:24:53.64\00:24:56.15
spirit nose filled? "
00:24:56.45\00:24:59.54
Who ever thinks of
your spirit of God?
00:25:00.04\00:25:02.92
"Lord, please fill our noses. "
00:25:03.12\00:25:04.54
Why does it say "The spirit
of God was in my nostrils? "
00:25:04.95\00:25:10.06
The word "spirit of God"
there means the breath of life
00:25:10.26\00:25:13.59
was in my nostrils. "
That is the exact word
00:25:13.69\00:25:15.95
that's being used there
in Ecclesiastes 12 verse 7.
00:25:16.15\00:25:19.49
All right. So... before
I go to the next point...
00:25:20.70\00:25:26.15
Seventh-day Adventists
believe that when a person dies
00:25:26.35\00:25:30.50
they sleep in the grave
00:25:30.70\00:25:33.51
until the judgment
and the resurrection.
00:25:33.71\00:25:36.52
Jesus said rewards are not given
00:25:36.82\00:25:39.56
until He comes. Matthew
25: "When the Son of Man
00:25:39.76\00:25:43.59
comes in the glory of the
Father with all His angels
00:25:43.69\00:25:46.24
He will gather all nations
before Him and separate them
00:25:46.44\00:25:49.76
as a shepherd separates
the sheep from the goats. "
00:25:49.90\00:25:52.08
When He comes, He
then distributes rewards.
00:25:52.28\00:25:55.79
He doesn't
distribute rewards at death
00:25:55.99\00:25:58.59
before the resurrection
and before the judgment.
00:25:58.79\00:26:01.12
This is actually
not a new belief.
00:26:01.32\00:26:03.24
Seventh-day
Adventists don't own it.
00:26:03.44\00:26:04.94
It's a very old belief
that has been influenced lately
00:26:05.14\00:26:08.19
in the last couple
hundred years by traditions.
00:26:08.39\00:26:11.46
All right. Number four:
00:26:11.69\00:26:13.42
Pastor Barney?
00:26:18.82\00:26:21.34
Matthew chapter 10
verse 28. Jesus said:
00:26:21.65\00:26:26.30
The soul cannot be killed.
00:26:33.56\00:26:35.67
You've got immortal souls
that go on forever and ever.
00:26:35.87\00:26:39.44
Well I'm going to
stop Pastor Barney.
00:26:40.67\00:26:42.16
Sometimes I get so
caught up in what he's saying
00:26:42.26\00:26:43.60
I think I don't want to convince
anybody so I'd better get back
00:26:43.70\00:26:45.70
over here. Just trying to
give, you know, the other view.
00:26:45.80\00:26:49.32
You've got to read the
rest of the verse, pastor.
00:26:50.52\00:26:52.68
Jesus said: "Don't
fear those who kill the body
00:26:52.88\00:26:55.48
but they cannot kill the
soul. But rather fear Him" -
00:26:55.68\00:26:59.21
Matthew 10:28...
second half of that verse...
00:26:59.41\00:27:01.58
So that's I think pretty clear.
00:27:10.26\00:27:13.05
As a matter of fact, you
only find the word mortal
00:27:13.26\00:27:16.28
or immortality
twice in the Bible.
00:27:16.48\00:27:19.24
Both times it's talking
about God and talking about
00:27:19.44\00:27:22.65
immortality. It's only
listed twice in the Bible
00:27:22.86\00:27:26.34
and you're going to
find where it says Matthew...
00:27:26.54\00:27:28.58
I'm sorry. In I
Timothy 6 verses 15 and 16.
00:27:28.78\00:27:33.31
I Timothy 6:15-16:
00:27:33.51\00:27:35.68
God alone has immortality.
00:27:51.14\00:27:53.54
And let me give you one
more. This is a short one:
00:27:53.74\00:27:55.59
Ezekiel 18:20:
00:27:55.79\00:27:57.15
The idea that you've got an
immortal soul that can't die...
00:27:57.35\00:28:00.87
If this isn't as clear
as any dictionary definition
00:28:01.07\00:28:03.73
then I don't know what is:
00:28:03.93\00:28:04.97
The Bible says... the Lord says
00:28:05.37\00:28:07.39
"the soul that sins will die. "
00:28:07.59\00:28:10.79
And that takes us
right back to what Jesus said
00:28:11.09\00:28:13.53
in John 3:16.
00:28:13.73\00:28:15.43
"God so loved the world
He gave His only begotten Son
00:28:15.63\00:28:18.76
that whosoever believes in Him
00:28:19.06\00:28:21.35
should not... "
you've got two choices...
00:28:21.55\00:28:23.59
"perish but have
everlasting life. "
00:28:23.79\00:28:27.17
We've only got two choices:
perish... everlasting life.
00:28:27.37\00:28:30.95
As a matter of fact,
the first thing that the...
00:28:31.16\00:28:33.30
the first lie that was
ever told in the universe
00:28:33.50\00:28:35.34
was the devil when he told Eve
00:28:35.54\00:28:38.23
"God said you disobey,
you eat the forbidden fruit
00:28:38.43\00:28:40.74
you'll die. "
What did the devil say?
00:28:40.94\00:28:42.70
"You won't really die. "
00:28:42.90\00:28:45.04
And the sad thing is that
some churches have taken up
00:28:45.24\00:28:48.34
the refrain of the devil
telling people that you are
00:28:48.54\00:28:51.46
immortal. You're going to
live forever and ever in heaven
00:28:51.56\00:28:53.56
or you're going to live
forever and ever in hell.
00:28:53.66\00:28:55.28
I do believe in
everlasting separation from God.
00:28:55.58\00:28:59.00
But everlasting punishment...
00:28:59.20\00:29:01.62
that's another
subject we're about to get to.
00:29:01.82\00:29:03.59
You know, there's so much
more I'd like to say on this
00:29:03.79\00:29:05.66
and I know I don't have time.
00:29:05.86\00:29:06.96
So what we're doing is
we're going to put a website up.
00:29:07.16\00:29:09.34
It's very simple:
www. deathtruth. com
00:29:09.54\00:29:13.61
www. deathtruth. com
00:29:14.22\00:29:15.37
Even if you type in truth
about death you'll find the same
00:29:15.40\00:29:18.12
website. A lot of people
asking questions about that...
00:29:18.22\00:29:21.62
especially just
before Halloween.
00:29:21.82\00:29:23.41
www. deathtruth. com, and you'll
find more information there.
00:29:23.94\00:29:28.58
All right. Well then, let's
talk about the subject of hell.
00:29:28.78\00:29:33.50
Question number five:
00:29:33.90\00:29:37.16
Do lost souls burn forever?
00:29:37.46\00:29:41.25
All right, Pastor Barney.
00:29:41.45\00:29:43.61
To me these scriptures are
really powerful, Pastor Doug.
00:29:43.81\00:29:47.31
Matthew 18. I'm going to
read two that are similar.
00:29:47.51\00:29:50.10
I'll be reading
Matthew 18 and Mark 9.
00:29:50.20\00:29:51.96
Matthew 18:8: "If your hand
or foot causes you to sin... "
00:29:52.16\00:29:56.61
Mark 9:43-44:
00:30:09.06\00:30:11.97
Tell you what, I'll let
you address that before I go
00:30:28.87\00:30:30.78
to my next point.
00:30:30.89\00:30:31.97
OK. Well, I believe
that it is true that the fire
00:30:32.27\00:30:38.27
there in hell
cannot be quenched.
00:30:38.47\00:30:40.08
The word quench is a
verb that means to extinguish.
00:30:40.28\00:30:43.18
By the way,
there's a myth out there
00:30:43.39\00:30:45.86
that Seventh-day Adventists
do not believe in hell fire.
00:30:45.96\00:30:48.34
I've heard people say that;
I've heard preachers say it.
00:30:48.54\00:30:50.47
That is categorically not true.
00:30:50.67\00:30:52.48
We do believe in hell fire.
00:30:52.69\00:30:55.26
We do believe
there's a lake of fire.
00:30:55.46\00:30:57.41
We do believe that the wicked
are all rewarded according to
00:30:57.61\00:31:00.67
what they deserve. We believe
what it says there in Malachi
00:31:00.77\00:31:04.05
chapter 4: "Behold the day
comes that will burn as an oven
00:31:04.25\00:31:08.30
and all the proud and all that
do wickedly shall be stubble.
00:31:08.60\00:31:12.17
The day that comes
shall burn them up. "
00:31:12.47\00:31:14.49
But then you've
got to keep reading.
00:31:14.69\00:31:16.21
"It will leave them
neither root nor branch. "
00:31:16.41\00:31:20.35
Says the wicked will be ashes
under the soles of the feet
00:31:20.65\00:31:24.54
of the righteous. Burn
up root, burn up branch...
00:31:24.75\00:31:28.33
there's nothing left.
When hell fire is burning
00:31:28.53\00:31:31.35
nobody is quenching it.
There are no firemen in hell
00:31:31.56\00:31:34.87
trying to spray things off.
00:31:35.07\00:31:36.98
That means they
burn until they consume.
00:31:37.19\00:31:39.77
And this is what Jesus said.
00:31:39.97\00:31:41.26
Says in Revelation: "Fire comes
down from God out of heaven" -
00:31:41.47\00:31:44.22
Revelation chapter
20- "and consumes them. "
00:31:44.42\00:31:47.80
That means they're devoured...
there's nothing left.
00:31:48.10\00:31:50.10
Pastor Doug, you say that but
I'd like to have some Biblical
00:31:50.30\00:31:52.60
support for that passage.
00:31:52.70\00:31:54.49
All right. Jeremiah
chapter 17 verse 27.
00:31:54.69\00:31:57.17
It says here
Jerusalem would be destroyed
00:31:57.47\00:32:01.01
with unquenchable fire.
You can just read about that,
00:32:01.21\00:32:04.72
the whole prophecy there.
Says the gates would be burned
00:32:04.92\00:32:07.75
with unquenchable fire.
00:32:07.95\00:32:09.29
If you know the rest
of your Bible history...
00:32:09.59\00:32:10.90
I can't go to all the passages.
00:32:11.10\00:32:12.57
The Babylonians came. They
conquered the land of Judea.
00:32:12.87\00:32:17.48
They burned Jerusalem.
00:32:17.68\00:32:19.43
They burned the gates.
00:32:19.63\00:32:21.63
Nobody was there putting it out
00:32:21.93\00:32:24.22
but they're not still
burning today, are they?
00:32:24.42\00:32:27.24
And then you can
read in the book of Jude.
00:32:27.54\00:32:29.86
You want to find out what
that eternal fire is that Jesus
00:32:30.06\00:32:32.71
was talking about: Jude verse 7.
00:32:32.91\00:32:36.07
Can't tell you what chapter
'cause there's only one chapter
00:32:36.37\00:32:38.38
so all Jude has is verses.
00:32:38.58\00:32:40.13
Jude verse 7:
00:32:40.43\00:32:41.67
"As Sodom and Gomorrah
and the cities around them
00:32:41.97\00:32:45.45
in similar manner have
given themselves over to sexual
00:32:45.65\00:32:49.21
immorality and
gone after strange flesh
00:32:49.31\00:32:51.62
they are set forth as an example
00:32:51.82\00:32:55.17
suffering the
vengeance of eternal fire. "
00:32:55.37\00:32:59.69
Now that eternal fire...
What it means is the result
00:33:00.09\00:33:03.12
of that fire is eternal.
00:33:03.15\00:33:04.85
It's amazing.
Sodom and Gomorrah lived
00:33:04.98\00:33:07.69
oh, 1800 years,
2000 years before Christ
00:33:07.89\00:33:11.75
is when those
cities were flourishing.
00:33:11.95\00:33:13.57
And when that fire rained
down from God out of heaven
00:33:13.97\00:33:16.71
and burned them
up they were judged.
00:33:16.91\00:33:18.12
And to this very day you
can go to where that region is.
00:33:18.32\00:33:20.90
It is the lowest point on earth:
00:33:21.10\00:33:22.86
1,300 ft. below sea level.
00:33:23.06\00:33:24.40
It is out under the
Dead Sea. It is bad land.
00:33:24.60\00:33:28.06
You can't grow anything there.
00:33:28.26\00:33:29.80
It is under just a curse.
00:33:30.00\00:33:32.36
Those cities were
burned with eternal fire
00:33:32.56\00:33:35.04
and the Bible says that
they are set forth as an example
00:33:35.24\00:33:38.48
of what the wicked can expect.
Are they still burning today?
00:33:38.58\00:33:42.13
Why does it call it
eternal or everlasting fire?
00:33:42.43\00:33:45.90
If, heaven forbid, my
little pulpit here which is
00:33:46.20\00:33:50.56
made out of some
kind of wood product -
00:33:50.76\00:33:52.51
should suddenly
ignite into flames
00:33:52.71\00:33:55.11
and I stood back and we
all stood back to watch,
00:33:55.14\00:33:58.65
and it burned. I've never seen
a pulpit quite like that before
00:33:58.88\00:34:02.30
but I like it.
00:34:02.50\00:34:04.19
But if it burned up
and we didn't extinguish it
00:34:04.50\00:34:08.11
that would mean
it was unquenchable.
00:34:08.22\00:34:09.64
Suppose we tried and we
couldn't... unquenchable
00:34:09.84\00:34:11.63
until it burns all up
and there's nothing left.
00:34:11.94\00:34:14.82
How many of you remember that
burning bush that Moses saw?
00:34:15.22\00:34:19.15
It burned and yet
it was not consumed.
00:34:19.45\00:34:22.23
How many believe it's
still burning out there today
00:34:22.63\00:34:24.77
somewhere?
00:34:24.87\00:34:26.91
But it was
unquenchable at the time.
00:34:27.41\00:34:29.31
So this would be burned up...
that pulpit, that particular
00:34:31.02\00:34:34.35
pulpit. It's been
burned with eternal fire
00:34:34.45\00:34:36.78
'cause it will never appear
again. It is gone forever.
00:34:36.88\00:34:40.26
It is unquenchable, eternal,
everlasting destruction.
00:34:40.49\00:34:45.75
It's gone! That's what the
Bible says is going to happen
00:34:46.05\00:34:49.25
to the wicked. They're
burned up with everlasting fire.
00:34:49.35\00:34:51.61
All right. Well I know
I've been monopolizing the time,
00:34:51.81\00:34:53.85
Pastor Barney. You were
giving another verse here.
00:34:53.95\00:34:56.23
I have another one.
Thank you very much.
00:34:56.43\00:34:58.20
Revelation 20 verse 10.
00:34:58.40\00:35:00.81
This is a tough one for you.
00:35:01.21\00:35:03.29
It says, speaking of the
destruction of the devil:
00:35:03.59\00:35:06.35
"The devil who deceived them
was cast into the lake of fire
00:35:06.55\00:35:10.55
and brimstone where the
beast and the false prophet are
00:35:10.75\00:35:13.81
and they'll be
tormented day and night
00:35:14.01\00:35:17.25
forever and ever. "
00:35:17.45\00:35:19.40
Well, it's comforting to know
that it especially says that
00:35:22.13\00:35:25.21
about the devil. But in
the Bible the word forever
00:35:25.41\00:35:28.59
that's used there in
the Greek is the word eon.
00:35:28.79\00:35:31.08
Have you ever heard someone
say "why I haven't seen them
00:35:31.38\00:35:34.05
in eons? " An eon is a long
yet unspecified period of time.
00:35:34.15\00:35:39.46
The term forever is
used 56 times in the Bible
00:35:39.67\00:35:44.97
where it also
denotes a limited period.
00:35:45.17\00:35:48.46
Some examples would be
00:35:48.76\00:35:50.31
when Hannah brought
young Samuel to the temple.
00:35:50.51\00:35:52.87
She delivered him to Eli
and said: "I'm bringing him here
00:35:53.07\00:35:55.96
so he can serve in this temple
before the Lord forever. "
00:35:56.16\00:36:00.53
Well he's not still
serving there today, is he?
00:36:00.77\00:36:03.09
If you read in the book of Jonah
00:36:03.39\00:36:05.54
chapter 1 tells us
that in verse 17 Jonah
00:36:05.74\00:36:09.45
was 3 day and 3 night in
the belly of the great fish.
00:36:09.65\00:36:12.04
In Jonah's prayer -
chapter 2 verse 6- he says
00:36:12.07\00:36:15.77
"the earth with her
bars was about me forever. "
00:36:15.97\00:36:19.74
Now I suppose that
felt like Hades to Jonah.
00:36:20.04\00:36:22.80
Can you imagine what
that would have been like?
00:36:23.10\00:36:25.74
To me whenever I think
about the story of Jonah
00:36:27.22\00:36:29.55
the more I try to
imagine it to be in the
00:36:29.75\00:36:34.26
digestive system
of this sea monster
00:36:34.46\00:36:37.73
where if Jonah's
alive it stands to reason
00:36:37.93\00:36:42.00
that there could have been
something else that was on the
00:36:42.20\00:36:44.02
menu that day
before or after Jonah...
00:36:44.13\00:36:47.44
Or he might have
had dessert after Jonah;
00:36:47.64\00:36:49.53
he might have had
appetizers before...
00:36:49.73\00:36:51.53
And so there in that sea
monster there could have been
00:36:51.74\00:36:54.77
stinging jellyfish.
Flashing bioluminescence.
00:36:54.97\00:36:58.44
Octopus. Whales
like to eat squid.
00:36:58.64\00:37:02.40
Can you imagine
three days and three nights
00:37:03.66\00:37:06.53
in that darkness in the
digestive system of a...
00:37:06.73\00:37:09.66
this sea monster?
Would it feel like forever?
00:37:09.87\00:37:13.46
Let's suppose for a
moment that the wicked...
00:37:13.76\00:37:16.66
One problem I've got
with the idea that the wicked
00:37:16.86\00:37:20.48
burn forever and ever is
00:37:20.69\00:37:23.93
that would mean
that some teenager
00:37:24.23\00:37:28.05
who reaches the
age of accountability.
00:37:28.25\00:37:30.13
You pick that age...
whatever that age is.
00:37:30.33\00:37:31.66
Say it's 15.
00:37:31.87\00:37:33.04
That teenager doesn't
accept Jesus and they die lost.
00:37:33.34\00:37:36.88
According to
Pastor Barney's belief,
00:37:37.08\00:37:38.96
a lot of
evangelicals, as soon as he dies
00:37:39.16\00:37:43.33
he is going to go
to a lake of fire.
00:37:43.54\00:37:46.10
And he is going to
burn there and writhe
00:37:46.50\00:37:51.81
and shriek and scream
in unimaginable torment
00:37:52.01\00:37:57.01
moment after
agonizing moment endlessly,
00:37:57.41\00:38:02.08
hour after hour, day
after day, week after week
00:38:02.39\00:38:06.92
screaming, burning, shrieking
00:38:07.12\00:38:09.83
year after year,
millennium after millennium.
00:38:11.21\00:38:15.33
And after a
million years have gone by
00:38:15.53\00:38:18.13
he's only just begun to burn.
00:38:18.33\00:38:20.79
And he burns as
long as Adolph Hitler.
00:38:21.09\00:38:23.74
According to that
belief that's exactly right.
00:38:24.14\00:38:28.96
But Jesus said every man is
rewarded according to his works.
00:38:29.26\00:38:33.69
If everybody
gets everlasting fire,
00:38:33.89\00:38:36.90
then how can everybody
get the same fair reward?
00:38:37.10\00:38:41.01
Well there's some things,
Pastor Doug, that we don't
00:38:42.99\00:38:45.03
understand.
It's the mind of God,
00:38:45.13\00:38:46.69
and we need to
trust the love of God.
00:38:46.72\00:38:48.40
We need to trust
the judgment of God
00:38:48.60\00:38:50.75
and just don't
question those things.
00:38:51.05\00:38:53.14
Well in my Bible He
says: "Come now let us reason
00:38:54.65\00:38:57.00
together. " I think that
the Lord wants us to understand
00:38:57.20\00:39:00.21
these things. And
would you agree with me,
00:39:00.41\00:39:03.83
Pastor Barney, that Jesus died
for the sins of the whole world
00:39:04.03\00:39:07.41
and that He paid
the penalty for sin?
00:39:07.61\00:39:10.17
Absolutely. We
agree on that one 100%.
00:39:11.53\00:39:14.38
So what is the penalty for sin?
00:39:15.64\00:39:17.91
Oh you know that. You're
just saying that for the benefit
00:39:19.51\00:39:21.35
of the people here. The
penalty for sin is death.
00:39:21.45\00:39:23.56
But if the
penalty for sin is death
00:39:26.07\00:39:28.27
and Jesus paid that penalty,
00:39:28.47\00:39:30.06
we've got a problem if the
penalty for sin is everlasting
00:39:30.26\00:39:33.64
torment in the flames
00:39:33.84\00:39:35.34
'cause Jesus died, He suffered,
00:39:35.55\00:39:38.69
and He rose. He's
not still burning today.
00:39:38.89\00:39:41.72
So how could he have paid
the penalty for the whole human
00:39:42.02\00:39:44.65
race if the penalty is
really eternal torment?
00:39:44.75\00:39:46.93
Have you got another question?
00:39:49.71\00:39:52.05
I think that's a good point.
00:39:54.32\00:39:56.18
So the word forever from
the Bible itself is sometimes...
00:39:57.49\00:40:02.14
not always obviously. When
God tells us we have everlasting
00:40:02.28\00:40:04.70
life and we'll live forever
we read it in its context.
00:40:04.80\00:40:07.65
When it's talking about
the punishment of the wicked
00:40:07.85\00:40:09.89
what kind of words are used?
00:40:10.09\00:40:11.89
It says consumed, perish, die.
00:40:12.09\00:40:16.65
Says burned up. Says
never will they be any more.
00:40:16.85\00:40:20.09
Even concerning the devil
it says: "I will bring forth
00:40:20.30\00:40:22.29
a fire from the midst
of thee" - Ezekiel 28-
00:40:22.49\00:40:24.53
"and it will consume thee.
00:40:24.73\00:40:26.59
You will be a terror and
never shall you be any more. "
00:40:26.89\00:40:29.30
If anybody
deserves to burn forever,
00:40:29.51\00:40:32.36
it'd be the devil, right?
00:40:32.56\00:40:33.72
And he may burn for
several days. I don't know.
00:40:34.02\00:40:36.64
Adolph Hitler, Saddam Hussein,
00:40:36.94\00:40:39.17
and there are going to be
some other despots. They may
00:40:39.37\00:40:41.65
burn for a while. Can
you imagine burning 24 hours?
00:40:41.85\00:40:45.87
A week? But no...
And you know what?
00:40:46.17\00:40:50.05
I'm thankful to tell you today
00:40:50.25\00:40:51.81
that an ever-growing
number of Christian theologians
00:40:52.01\00:40:55.06
are agreeing. Recently
John Stock just passed away,
00:40:55.27\00:40:58.05
one of the greatest theologians
of the last century...
00:40:58.25\00:41:00.57
he believed exactly
what I'm telling you today
00:41:00.77\00:41:03.27
that yes, the
wicked are punished.
00:41:03.57\00:41:05.63
There is a lake of
fire. They do not burn
00:41:05.83\00:41:07.89
forever and ever... they
are ultimately annihilated.
00:41:07.99\00:41:10.62
God says: "I
make all things new. "
00:41:10.82\00:41:13.37
There is no more pain or
suffering in the new earth.
00:41:13.57\00:41:16.70
All things are made new.
00:41:16.73\00:41:17.98
That doesn't mean
He's immortalizing sinners.
00:41:18.18\00:41:20.67
All right. Number six:
00:41:23.59\00:41:26.83
Now let me read that for you.
00:41:34.49\00:41:36.48
If you turn in your
Bibles to Luke chapter 16
00:41:36.78\00:41:40.35
beginning with verse 19:
00:41:40.55\00:41:42.13
"There was a certain rich
man who was clothed in purple
00:41:42.43\00:41:45.72
and fine linen who fared or
feasted sumptuously every day.
00:41:45.82\00:41:49.71
And there was a
certain beggar named Lazarus
00:41:50.01\00:41:52.04
full of sores who laid at
his gate desiring to be fed
00:41:52.24\00:41:55.63
with the crumbs that fell
from the rich man's table.
00:41:55.83\00:41:57.92
Moreover the dogs
came and licked his sores.
00:41:58.22\00:42:01.01
So the beggar died and
was carried by the angels... "
00:42:01.32\00:42:04.55
right the way,
notice... "to Abraham's bosom.
00:42:04.75\00:42:07.13
The rich man also
died and he was buried.
00:42:07.43\00:42:10.53
And being in torment in Hades
00:42:10.83\00:42:15.09
he lifted up his eyes
and he saw Abraham afar off
00:42:15.29\00:42:18.86
and Lazarus in his bosom.
00:42:19.07\00:42:20.38
And he cried out and
he said: 'father Abraham,
00:42:20.69\00:42:22.86
have mercy on me and
send Lazarus that he might dip
00:42:23.06\00:42:26.55
the tip of his finger
in water and cool my tongue
00:42:26.65\00:42:28.78
for I am
tormented in this flame. ' "
00:42:28.98\00:42:31.11
There you've got it.
Lazarus, this wicked man,
00:42:31.21\00:42:33.70
selfish man, he is
tormented in the flames
00:42:33.80\00:42:35.64
and he's
conscious during that time.
00:42:35.84\00:42:37.49
"But Abraham said to him:
'son, remember that you in your
00:42:39.14\00:42:42.30
lifetime received your
good things and likewise Lazarus
00:42:42.40\00:42:44.89
evil things. But now he is
comforted and you are tormented.
00:42:44.99\00:42:48.60
Besides this, between us and
you there is a great gulf fixed
00:42:51.58\00:42:56.14
so that those who want to
pass from here to you cannot
00:42:56.34\00:42:58.78
nor can those from
there pass to us. '
00:42:58.98\00:43:01.24
Then he said: 'I beg you
therefore father that you would
00:43:01.44\00:43:04.00
send them to my father's
house for I have five brothers
00:43:04.10\00:43:07.00
that he might testify to
them lest they also come to this
00:43:07.10\00:43:09.68
place of torment. '
Abraham said to him:
00:43:09.78\00:43:12.67
'They have Moses and the
prophets. Let them hear them. '
00:43:12.87\00:43:16.74
He said: 'No, father
Abraham, but if one went to them
00:43:16.94\00:43:19.76
from the dead then
they would repent. '
00:43:19.86\00:43:22.23
But he said to him: "If they do
not hear Moses and the prophets,
00:43:22.43\00:43:26.08
neither will they be
persuaded though one should rise
00:43:26.28\00:43:28.94
from the dead. ' "
00:43:29.04\00:43:30.06
Seems pretty clear
to me, Pastor Doug.
00:43:30.26\00:43:31.65
It's telling us that
immediately after death
00:43:31.85\00:43:34.01
people are either
going to Abraham's bosom
00:43:34.21\00:43:36.24
or they're going to torment.
00:43:36.45\00:43:37.89
All right. Well I think
the key word, Pastor Barney,
00:43:39.64\00:43:42.29
is the PARABLE of
the rich man and Lazarus.
00:43:42.49\00:43:45.61
It's a parable.
00:43:45.82\00:43:47.34
If you take all the
parables in the Bible literally,
00:43:47.44\00:43:50.14
then you'll believe that trees
talk to each other as they do
00:43:50.34\00:43:53.18
in the book of Judges and you'll
believe that people should be
00:43:53.28\00:43:55.81
sheared like sheep.
Jesus used a lot of analogies
00:43:55.91\00:43:59.61
to teach a point. Now,
you have to ask yourself...
00:43:59.81\00:44:02.19
once again, don't ever
build a doctrine on one verse.
00:44:02.39\00:44:05.55
This is only found
here in the gospel of Luke.
00:44:05.75\00:44:07.95
I believe it's
inspired, but the message here
00:44:08.15\00:44:10.52
is in the last few words.
00:44:10.72\00:44:12.42
Jesus is using an
incredible, incongruous
00:44:12.72\00:44:18.15
poles in this story. He's taking
the hero of the Jewish faith
00:44:18.35\00:44:23.97
and he says that
Lazarus, this poor man who dies,
00:44:24.17\00:44:28.16
he goes... And by the
way, it's a Greek name...
00:44:28.36\00:44:30.43
it's the Greek
derivative of Eleazar...
00:44:30.74\00:44:33.67
he goes and he is
in Abraham's bosom.
00:44:33.87\00:44:36.92
So here you've got
the Greek poor beggar
00:44:37.02\00:44:39.12
who looks like he's
under the curse of God -
00:44:39.32\00:44:41.16
the only cleaning he
gets is from the dogs -
00:44:41.36\00:44:43.66
but he ends up in the
Jewish place of paradise.
00:44:43.86\00:44:47.74
And then you've got the rich
man who you'd think would be
00:44:47.97\00:44:50.64
in Abraham's bosom...
he goes to the Greek place
00:44:50.74\00:44:53.75
of torment. Every
Jew knew Greek mythology.
00:44:53.85\00:44:57.87
They had been
conquered by Alexander the Great
00:44:57.97\00:44:59.85
hundreds of years earlier.
They all knew about Pluto.
00:45:00.06\00:45:02.93
the god of Hades, the dogs
of hell, and the whole thing.
00:45:03.03\00:45:05.96
And it was Greek mythology.
00:45:06.17\00:45:08.28
It's like in the
English language.
00:45:08.49\00:45:09.96
If I should tell you right now
00:45:10.16\00:45:11.42
"one day Alice was
walking in Wonderland... "
00:45:11.62\00:45:14.15
One sentence. Does
everyone know right away
00:45:14.35\00:45:17.54
that I'm using an illustration
that you're not to take
00:45:17.75\00:45:19.97
literally everything I'm saying.
00:45:20.07\00:45:21.66
When Jesus
incorporated these things,
00:45:21.86\00:45:24.02
He was teaching a parable.
00:45:24.22\00:45:25.53
The parable was that
the Jew should not think
00:45:25.73\00:45:28.83
because they were
Abraham's children
00:45:29.03\00:45:31.31
they were automatically saved.
00:45:31.51\00:45:33.34
That they might be
shocked that others would be
00:45:33.54\00:45:35.83
in Abraham's bosom.
00:45:35.93\00:45:37.24
And that they shouldn't
sit with the Gentiles starving
00:45:37.54\00:45:40.61
for the truth that
they were feasting on -
00:45:40.82\00:45:42.96
only comfort they got was from
the dogs... other Gentiles -
00:45:43.16\00:45:46.60
and here they were neglecting
them and feasting on the truth
00:45:46.80\00:45:49.90
and thinking that we're
the favored chosen people.
00:45:50.11\00:45:52.72
Churches sometimes do that too.
00:45:53.02\00:45:54.34
So the message of Jesus is:
"If they don't believe Moses
00:45:54.54\00:45:58.22
and the prophets they
won't be persuaded though one
00:45:58.32\00:46:00.39
should rise from the
dead. " It's a parable.
00:46:00.59\00:46:02.63
Who believes that Abraham's
bosom is big enough to take
00:46:02.93\00:46:06.04
all the resurrected?
00:46:06.14\00:46:07.57
I mean, just
picture that for a moment.
00:46:08.94\00:46:10.74
Do you believe the people in
heaven and hell will be able to
00:46:12.24\00:46:14.57
talk to each other?
00:46:14.77\00:46:16.24
Does anyone here want to
be in heaven talking to people
00:46:16.44\00:46:19.99
in torment? Do we
believe that one drop of water
00:46:20.09\00:46:24.35
would cool a person's tongue?
00:46:24.45\00:46:26.04
I mean it would sizzle
and evaporate before you ever
00:46:26.24\00:46:28.15
got there. All
these powerful metaphors.
00:46:28.25\00:46:31.21
To take this story
literally I think is a dangerous
00:46:31.41\00:46:33.83
interpretation.
00:46:33.94\00:46:35.23
Well Pastor Doug, if it's
a parable, why does He use
00:46:35.73\00:46:39.18
a real name there?
00:46:39.38\00:46:41.52
It's... all the other
parables He just says this man
00:46:41.82\00:46:44.30
and that man were doing this but
here He picks a person's name.
00:46:44.40\00:46:46.83
It's a real story.
00:46:46.93\00:46:48.10
Well that is a good point,
Pastor Barney, but I think
00:46:48.60\00:46:50.66
there's a reason
Jesus used the name Lazarus.
00:46:50.76\00:46:53.31
Did Jesus raise somebody
from the dead named Lazarus?
00:46:53.51\00:46:56.74
Did the religious
leaders choose to believe?
00:46:57.93\00:47:01.38
You said: "Oh father
Abraham, if someone went to them
00:47:01.68\00:47:04.78
from the dead then
they'll believe and repent. "
00:47:04.98\00:47:06.58
Jesus said: "If they believe
not Moses and the prophets
00:47:06.78\00:47:09.84
then they won't be
persuaded though one should rise
00:47:10.04\00:47:12.46
from the dead. "
Jesus' greatest miracle was
00:47:12.56\00:47:14.84
raising Lazarus who
had been dead for four days
00:47:15.04\00:47:17.06
and instead of believing
they wanted to kill Lazarus. "
00:47:17.26\00:47:19.26
So He incorporated
the name to add intensity
00:47:19.46\00:47:23.10
to this parable.
00:47:23.30\00:47:25.68
It is just that... a parable.
00:47:25.98\00:47:28.13
People do not die and
go right to heaven and hell
00:47:28.43\00:47:31.21
before the resurrection.
00:47:31.41\00:47:33.50
What's the purpose
of the resurrection?
00:47:33.70\00:47:35.71
The Bible says the Lord
Himself will descend from heaven
00:47:35.91\00:47:38.20
and then the dead
in Christ will rise.
00:47:38.40\00:47:40.47
There'd be no
purpose for the resurrection.
00:47:40.77\00:47:42.44
By the way, I do have another
website I'd like to mention.
00:47:42.74\00:47:48.21
Big subject. This is one
of the most popular websites
00:47:48.31\00:47:50.75
you're going to find on
the Internet on this subject.
00:47:50.95\00:47:52.70
It's got a lot of good theology.
00:47:52.90\00:47:53.95
Very simple: www. helltruth. com
00:47:53.98\00:47:57.33
So... next question.
00:48:00.17\00:48:05.98
Now we're going
to talk about heaven.
00:48:07.42\00:48:09.04
Number seven:
00:48:14.32\00:48:15.96
Pastor Barney, take it away.
00:48:19.35\00:48:21.87
I Corinthians 15:50.
00:48:22.17\00:48:24.89
"Now this I say, brethren,
that flesh and blood... "
00:48:25.09\00:48:29.08
The Bible says
that we're spirits
00:48:32.17\00:48:34.39
and the Lord is
saving our spirits.
00:48:34.49\00:48:35.90
And so it's the spirits
that go to be with Jesus
00:48:36.00\00:48:39.09
at death. It's
not flesh and blood.
00:48:39.29\00:48:41.82
We're going to be
spiritual creatures.
00:48:42.02\00:48:43.22
Flesh and blood can't
inherit the kingdom of God.
00:48:43.52\00:48:45.24
Well Pastor Barney, I
also agree with that verse
00:48:46.89\00:48:49.20
but I think what Jesus
is telling us is that our
00:48:49.40\00:48:51.66
new bodies - our
glorified bodies - will be both
00:48:51.87\00:48:54.62
tangible and spiritual.
00:48:54.82\00:48:57.13
When Adam and Eve sinned
and their garments of light
00:48:57.33\00:48:59.76
went out, they lost the
spiritual dimension of their
00:48:59.86\00:49:02.48
nature. Right now there
are angels in this room.
00:49:02.68\00:49:05.24
Jesus said: "I am
with you always. "
00:49:05.44\00:49:07.42
There's a whole spiritual
realm we cannot see in these
00:49:07.62\00:49:10.91
heavenly places. I think
with the new glorified bodies
00:49:11.01\00:49:14.25
we will be able to
see all that again.
00:49:14.45\00:49:16.49
Now let me give you
some verses here in the Bible
00:49:16.69\00:49:18.78
that I think help support that.
00:49:18.98\00:49:20.30
Romans chapter 8 verses 8-9.
00:49:20.60\00:49:22.98
So here when Paul's
talking about being in the flesh
00:49:33.46\00:49:36.24
or being in the spirit, he's not
talking about being in heaven.
00:49:36.44\00:49:39.21
He's talking about
those that are in the Lord.
00:49:39.41\00:49:41.43
Our flesh and blood -
these bodies that we have now -
00:49:41.73\00:49:45.43
are carnal,
mortal, diseased bodies.
00:49:45.63\00:49:49.16
They cannot
inherit the kingdom of God.
00:49:49.36\00:49:51.39
But we're going to
have real bodies in heaven.
00:49:51.59\00:49:53.64
It says here...
couple more scriptures.
00:49:54.04\00:49:56.75
Luke 24 verse 39.
00:49:58.02\00:49:59.84
Jesus when He arose from
the dead: He had a real body.
00:50:00.04\00:50:04.16
Now granted that He
didn't say "flesh and blood... "
00:50:17.31\00:50:19.35
He said "flesh and bones. "
00:50:19.45\00:50:20.42
But I think it qualifies
that Jesus was emphasizing
00:50:20.55\00:50:23.17
"I am real. " And
then when they touched Him
00:50:23.37\00:50:26.04
and they still
looked like they were amazed
00:50:26.24\00:50:28.31
He said: "I'm hungry; do
you have anything I can eat? "
00:50:28.51\00:50:31.13
And several times
after the resurrection when
00:50:31.43\00:50:33.56
He appeared to the disciples
He ate in front of them
00:50:33.66\00:50:36.57
to accentuate He was real.
00:50:36.77\00:50:39.02
Again.
Philippians 3:21. It says:
00:50:39.23\00:50:43.83
What kind of
bodies will we have?
00:50:49.88\00:50:52.01
The same kind of
body that Jesus had.
00:50:52.21\00:50:54.14
It will be a
glorified spiritual body.
00:50:54.34\00:50:56.67
When God made Adam and Eve
they were doing real things.
00:50:56.87\00:51:00.08
In the kingdom we're
going to plant vineyards and eat
00:51:00.28\00:51:02.67
the fruit of them;
we're going to build houses
00:51:02.77\00:51:04.29
and inhabit them. It
tells us that we're going to
00:51:04.49\00:51:07.06
enjoy the works of our hands.
00:51:07.26\00:51:09.20
We'll be real
people doing real things
00:51:09.40\00:51:11.02
and we're not going to be
floating around on clouds.
00:51:11.22\00:51:14.87
All right.
Number eight on heaven:
00:51:16.58\00:51:19.16
Tell you what, Pastor Barney,
I'm going to let you answer
00:51:22.99\00:51:26.04
that one. Well
thank you, Pastor Doug.
00:51:26.14\00:51:29.24
I Corinthians 13:12.
00:51:30.36\00:51:33.05
Of course we'll
recognize each other in heaven.
00:51:33.46\00:51:36.07
Our powers of discernment
are not going to be less
00:51:36.37\00:51:39.85
they're going to be more!
00:51:40.05\00:51:41.13
What do you think of that?
00:51:51.45\00:51:53.51
We agree!
00:51:55.66\00:51:58.00
I think Pastor Barney
and Pastor Doug ought to
00:51:59.99\00:52:02.06
shake hands, don't you?
00:52:02.16\00:52:04.47
OK. Let's go on to the next one.
00:52:06.50\00:52:07.77
I just wanted them to be
friends before it was all over.
00:52:07.97\00:52:10.21
I have to live with
myself after this program.
00:52:10.51\00:52:13.10
Question number nine:
00:52:16.34\00:52:18.29
Revelation 21 verse 4:
00:52:25.57\00:52:27.87
You know, there may be
some tears and some sadness
00:52:41.09\00:52:44.94
when Jesus first comes
and we meet Him in heaven.
00:52:45.14\00:52:49.54
That's part of the
purpose of the 1,000 years:
00:52:49.84\00:52:52.20
to answer
questions. But during that time
00:52:52.40\00:52:55.03
if we see someone we
love or someone we cared about
00:52:55.23\00:52:57.91
is not there, we
may have feelings.
00:52:58.11\00:53:01.67
Do angels have feelings?
00:53:01.87\00:53:03.18
Do angels rejoice and
sing when someone is saved?
00:53:03.48\00:53:06.39
Do angels cry or are
they grieved when someone dies
00:53:07.63\00:53:11.14
unprepared? And so
there will be some...
00:53:11.34\00:53:14.49
God does not erase all sense
of emotion from us in heaven.
00:53:14.69\00:53:19.10
Does the Lord and the
Holy Spirit have feelings
00:53:19.30\00:53:22.02
and sometimes does
the Holy Spirit grieve?
00:53:22.22\00:53:23.94
So you can be sure that
in heaven they're looking on
00:53:24.34\00:53:27.18
with great intensity here.
00:53:27.38\00:53:28.52
But don't worry about
going through eternity
00:53:28.72\00:53:30.75
being unhappy because you
say "I could never be happy
00:53:30.95\00:53:33.86
in heaven without this
person or that person. "
00:53:34.07\00:53:36.93
And you might wonder how
you could ever be comforted.
00:53:37.23\00:53:40.06
But it won't be a
person comforting you.
00:53:40.26\00:53:42.63
It says God Himself
will wipe away their tears.
00:53:42.83\00:53:46.40
I believe the Lord can do that.
00:53:46.60\00:53:48.32
So everybody can have that peace
and that happiness in heaven.
00:53:48.52\00:53:51.57
Number ten:
00:53:53.21\00:53:54.88
Pastor Barney, I think
that we could probably agree
00:54:00.06\00:54:02.72
on this one. Do
you want to go ahead?
00:54:02.82\00:54:03.99
Thank you, Pastor Doug.
00:54:04.29\00:54:06.19
By the way, um, I
just want to confess -
00:54:07.30\00:54:12.65
I'm not sure where to
stand and tell you this... -
00:54:12.85\00:54:15.42
I have listened to a
lot of preachers in other
00:54:18.21\00:54:20.93
evangelical mainline churches.
I know they know the Lord.
00:54:21.13\00:54:23.88
I have been moved and
inspired by things they've said
00:54:24.08\00:54:26.46
and some of their
insights into the scriptures.
00:54:26.66\00:54:28.34
As long as it doesn't contradict
the Bible, I think there's a lot
00:54:28.54\00:54:31.42
of truth. And I'll
tell you another thing:
00:54:31.52\00:54:34.40
there are a lot of
those ministers out there
00:54:34.61\00:54:36.61
I have heard them quote
illustrations that I have given
00:54:38.79\00:54:41.77
on television on their
radio and television programs
00:54:41.87\00:54:44.49
that I made up.
00:54:44.69\00:54:46.33
Not the ones that I
borrowed from other preachers.
00:54:46.63\00:54:49.06
Happened this
week... they're listening.
00:54:49.26\00:54:52.90
Amen! And so that's
why we do these programs:
00:54:53.20\00:54:56.24
we need to study together.
OK. What encouragement,
00:54:56.44\00:54:58.59
Pastor Barney,
does the Bible offer
00:54:58.79\00:55:01.47
that I can make it to
heaven with all the struggles
00:55:01.68\00:55:04.22
of this life? Romans 8 verse 18.
00:55:04.32\00:55:07.59
And again, I Corinthians 2:9:
00:55:14.98\00:55:19.38
You know, I've got some
good news for you, friends.
00:55:31.16\00:55:34.14
When you get to the end
of the Bible and you look at
00:55:35.68\00:55:37.34
the dimensions
of the New Jerusalem
00:55:37.45\00:55:39.38
it's 375 miles on each side.
00:55:39.58\00:55:43.21
1,500 miles around...
00:55:43.41\00:55:45.30
12,000 furlongs in
Biblical measurements.
00:55:45.51\00:55:47.83
Someone calculated that means
00:55:48.23\00:55:50.60
that if every
individual in the world
00:55:50.80\00:55:53.18
gets 100 square feet...
that'd be a little tight...
00:55:53.38\00:55:55.94
but just using that. If
everybody gets 100 sq. ft. -
00:55:55.97\00:55:59.90
that's more than
some cities have -
00:56:00.10\00:56:02.02
there'd be room just in
the city for 39 billion people.
00:56:02.32\00:56:06.59
That's a lot more
than is in the world today
00:56:07.80\00:56:10.20
and that means
there's room for you. Amen!
00:56:10.50\00:56:14.31
I believe that the Lord
is desperate for His people
00:56:15.18\00:56:18.48
to get it together.
00:56:18.69\00:56:20.10
I think that He has called the
Seventh-day Adventist movement
00:56:20.30\00:56:23.90
for such a time as this to
invite people from all faiths
00:56:24.10\00:56:28.28
to return to the faith that
was delivered to the saints:
00:56:28.48\00:56:31.99
the teaching of the Bible.
00:56:32.29\00:56:33.86
He doesn't want His
church divided on doctrine,
00:56:34.17\00:56:36.57
and He doesn't want us
to abandon truth and say
00:56:36.77\00:56:38.69
doctrine doesn't matter.
00:56:38.89\00:56:40.43
When they heard Jesus
preach and teach it says
00:56:40.73\00:56:44.40
they were
amazed at His doctrine.
00:56:44.61\00:56:47.52
It was His doctrine that
turned the world upside down.
00:56:47.82\00:56:51.16
Don't every be apologizing
for the doctrine, friends.
00:56:51.46\00:56:54.43
And sometimes the Word separates
00:56:54.83\00:56:57.73
and I know well enough
that not everybody is going to
00:56:57.93\00:57:00.75
believe. But some
are going to hear.
00:57:00.85\00:57:03.18
The Holy Spirit's going
to speak to their hearts
00:57:03.38\00:57:05.17
and it's going to resonate
with them as it did with me.
00:57:05.38\00:57:07.82
I once went to
church with Pastor Barney
00:57:08.12\00:57:10.62
and then I studied
and I heard these things
00:57:10.92\00:57:13.73
and it clicked and I
said: "That's the truth! "
00:57:14.13\00:57:16.24
It rings true;
there's Bible support.
00:57:16.44\00:57:18.99
And I'll tell you
friends, this is why today I'm a
00:57:19.49\00:57:22.13
Seventh-day Adventist Christian.
00:57:22.23\00:57:23.75
I don't want to be embarrassed
when some asks the reason
00:57:24.15\00:57:27.06
for the hope that is in me.
00:57:27.16\00:57:28.53
I want to be able to give an
answer with meekness and fear
00:57:28.73\00:57:31.40
and base it on this book. Amen!
00:57:31.60\00:57:34.82
Bottom line is we all
want to be one in Christ.
00:57:34.96\00:57:36.97
Jesus is the Word.
00:57:37.17\00:57:38.78
So that's my
invitation to you, friends.
00:57:38.98\00:57:41.12
I'd like to close this
series by praying for you.
00:57:41.42\00:57:43.81
Father in heaven,
00:57:44.21\00:57:45.77
bring Your people together.
00:57:46.07\00:57:47.48
Let there be a
revival of the truth.
00:57:47.59\00:57:49.64
Help there to be one fold
listening to the Shepherd's
00:57:49.85\00:57:53.06
voice. We pray in
Christ's name, Amen. Amen.
00:57:53.16\00:57:57.35
God bless you.
00:57:57.65\00:57:59.25