A good father
takes time to play.
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He has strong integrity.
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He is someone that
is truly dedicated.
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He's not afraid
to show his love.
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He is a caring provider,
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and he is a kind
spiritual leader.
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These are just a few ways
to describe a father's heart.
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Hi, welcome to A Father's Heart.
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I'm your host Xavier.
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And today, we're
going to be discussing
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saving our young
men from violence,
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but this is part two.
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As we have discussed
before, there's been an issue,
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an epidemic over young
men killing each other.
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And with me to
discuss this once more
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are my friends Gordon and Paul.
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How are you guys doing today?
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Welcome back. Doing great.
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Hey, brother.
Blessed to be here, man.
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So last time, we left off.
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We were discussing
the different things
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that were
happening to our young men
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in the community and, Paul,
you shared a powerful testimony
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of how God brought you
out of that environment
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of gangs and killing.
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And luckily, you
know, you're here today
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because of God's grace.
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Amen. Yes, indeed, indeed.
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I want to continue
on a point of prayer,
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prayer in the
church, prayer in the home.
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The spirituality of
our home environment,
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spirituality of
the church environment,
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both matters, both
play a significant role
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in helping our children
to remain cohesively bonded
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to this movement.
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I want to share
quickly a short testimony.
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At some point, maybe
I was about 17 or so,
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I'd already been
arrested a few times,
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I've been stabbed,
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I've been in a
shooting incident.
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I was quite distant
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from anywhere close to
desiring to be a prodigy.
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Mom called me up one
morning, and she's like,
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"Son, I have
something sad to tell you.
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And I wonder if you can join us
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this afternoon
for prayer meeting,
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group of friends
coming over to the house
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and we're going
to pray for you."
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"No. For what?
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What? No, man.
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Oh, pray this,
pray that, pray this."
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"No, no, no, son. I'm serious.
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The board is meeting to decide
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whether or not to
write you out of the church
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because they have learned
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that, you know,
you haven't been there
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in over six, seven years,
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and people are
aware you're in the street
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and you're dealing with drugs
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and this kind of stuff
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and you carry
firearms and all of this.
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And they're saying, you
know, it's an infringement
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of your baptismal oath.
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And so you need to be removed
from the books of the church.
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And so we're praying for
God to lead that exercise."
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I was like, "Man, who cares!
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So what?
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Let him take my name off.
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What do I care?"
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My mother pleaded
with me some more.
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So then they met the evening,
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her and group of other
friends from Brooklyn Faith,
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Sister Sims, Sister Garvey,
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I believe, was there
too, and they all prayed.
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I did joined them briefly.
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And then the next,
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maybe two days
later or so, my mom,
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you know, all moved
from tears and depression
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preliminary to this meeting.
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Now she's all
jubilant and excited.
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And she said, "Son, son,
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they voted to keep
your name on the books.
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As a matter of fact,
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out of the entire
church board voted,
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only one person voted
for you to be removed.
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Everybody else
said no unanimously."
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You know what?
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It seems trivial,
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and even at the point
of her telling me that,
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I still was like,
"Yeah, whatever, man!
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So what?"
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But it began to resonate,
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you know days
after, I said, "Wow.
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I haven't been to
that church in how long.
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I only go there
if I'd been injured
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and I'm going to hospital
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or I have a court hearing
or something of that sort.
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I need to, you know, to pray
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so I don't get
convicted over there.
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You know, this is how much
those people care about me.
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And it did have a
long-lasting significant impact,
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even though I didn't go back
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through the doors of the church.
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I never really went
back to Brooklyn Faith.
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I reclaim my faith in
the Lord at age 26 in Miami,
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Florida when I moved,
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and then was on my own
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and we're dealing
with the struggles of life.
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I was trying to
pull my life together.
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Still mixed up
in drug trafficking
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and these kind of things,
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but God was calling
me, and then finally,
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I gave my heart
to the Lord in Miami.
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So the church did play an
important role in your life?
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Because the church
never stopped praying.
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And before I forget,
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I don't want to
forget to ask you.
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You mentioned,
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I know after our last
program we had discussed,
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you know, just
one on one, you and I,
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you mentioned that
you had a friend of yours
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as, might
interested in coming today
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to talk a little bit more to...
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Yes, yes.
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In this topic.
That we can share also.
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He grew up in Holland,
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and I think he has
something significantly,
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he would be able to share also.
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So he's coming
little later or...
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Yes, he'll be
joining us a little later.
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Awesome, awesome.
You know, we're two rows.
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We were two rows, as I said,
same community, same church,
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we didn't go to
the same exact schools,
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same culture from South Guyana,
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South America, he also is,
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but there was
distinct differences
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in our rearing.
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Now I had a grandma
that was a lay minister,
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church planter, strict
fundamental type person,
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and drop the rod seriously,
she raised me to age 10,
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but I was
always raised by women.
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I met my father when I
was about 15 years old.
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Well, I saw him as a kid
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and interacted with him
as a kid from time to time,
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but I have no memory
of being parented by him
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until I was about 15, I
finally met him at that time.
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First thing I
said to my father was,
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"Look, I hope you're
not coming in my life
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to try to be a father
'cause I'm a man already."
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My father also had a
history of messing violence
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with my mother
that I never witnessed,
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but I heard enough about it.
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That's when I said
to my dad at 15, it was,
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"Yo, you could come in,
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you could visit, but I tell you,
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if you put your
hand on my mother,
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I will kill you."
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Those are my
exact words to my dad.
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So my rearing was
primarily by females,
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my grandma, my sister and
I, and other female cousin.
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Then once I left South
America and came to Brooklyn,
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my mother, my sister
and I, and another aunt.
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So it was always female nurture.
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I also share this
to show the importance
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or the
significance of male involvement
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in a young man's life.
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So here I am in the streets,
I'm about 14 or 15 years old.
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I'm deep in the
stuff by that age already.
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There's not a day
that I don't have a knife
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or a gun in my pocket.
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One day, I get home,
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and there was a
shoot-out in the neighborhood.
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A fight and then
ended up as a shoot-out.
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I had two
friends that I was closer
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that I grew up like brothers
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living just the next
building across from me.
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They were a bit more structured,
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so they weren't
there to see all the stuff
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because their
mother had specific times
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that they had to be in the house
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and it's all interesting.
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She also was a single mother,
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but she was far
stricter than my mom.
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So I'm bringing
to them the news,
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and I'm in the heat
of this conversation
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with my main friend,
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telling him,
"Oh, and they yelled
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and they did this thing, man.
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This dude pulled
out a pistol, man,
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he started chasing the guy."
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And then I said,
"Hold on, hold on, hold on.
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I got to go to rest room."
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So the story was so heated,
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you know, he was
like, "All right,"
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which is not uncommon,
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he followed me
into the rest room.
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So when we got
into the rest room,
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I'm still telling him.
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I said, "Yeah, man.
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Then the guy started shooting."
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And I sat down on the commode.
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Once I sat down, he
said, "Ah, wait, man.
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Yo, yo, I'll come back,
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you know, you finish
the story when you're done."
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I said, "No, no, relax,
I'm just doing number one,"
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you know, and continued talking.
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And he said to me,
"You're doing number one?
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Why are you
sitting down on the bowl?"
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And then you
know, he was about to,
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maybe follow up
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with some
demeaning comment though.
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I was much crazier than he.
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I was the thug,
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a little bad
guy with the pistols
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and all this kind of stuff.
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He knew better than
to try to embarrass me.
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So he cut his conversation.
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He said, "You know
what, just forget it,
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just forget it."
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And I said to
him, "Man, relax, man.
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I'm just doing number one."
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He said, "So why
are you sitting down
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on the bowl?"
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I looked up at him
like, "I don't know."
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We just stared at each other.
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The reason why,
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I had never been in
the habit of seeing a man
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use the rest room.
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Wow. Wow, wow, wow.
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Grown up all my
life, just woman.
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And to this day,
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I share it often in lectures
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and in mentorship
meetings to recruit,
00:08:08.42\00:08:11.29
to share the urgency
and the importance of that.
00:08:11.32\00:08:13.96
That's how
significant it is. Mercy.
00:08:13.99\00:08:15.96
Even today as an adult,
if I have my free choice,
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and I'm in my own
home, that's what I do.
00:08:18.59\00:08:21.26
I don't stand up
00:08:21.30\00:08:22.63
because that's what
was nurtured into me
00:08:22.66\00:08:24.07
by observation.
00:08:24.10\00:08:25.43
Oh. Mercy.
00:08:25.47\00:08:26.80
Something that seemingly trivial
00:08:26.84\00:08:29.60
can make a significant impact
00:08:29.64\00:08:31.44
on the
development of the male psyche
00:08:31.47\00:08:34.31
of a young man
psyche in his mind.
00:08:34.34\00:08:36.24
So and there are many others,
00:08:36.28\00:08:37.61
I'm just using that
one as an illustration.
00:08:37.65\00:08:39.31
So if a father
is not in the home,
00:08:39.35\00:08:42.98
make sure there is a
fatherly figure present
00:08:43.02\00:08:47.32
for that young man or
young men to be nurtured,
00:08:47.36\00:08:51.26
a positive fatherly
figure, not just anybody.
00:08:51.29\00:08:55.36
Someone positive,
someone constructive,
00:08:55.40\00:08:57.37
someone that's going to
help to build their self-worth.
00:08:57.40\00:09:00.67
Two different
roads, same environment,
00:09:00.70\00:09:04.44
and Gordon can share a
little bit of what helped him
00:09:04.47\00:09:07.01
to make the
choices that I didn't make.
00:09:07.04\00:09:09.08
I guess my father was
there, he was not Adventist,
00:09:09.11\00:09:12.08
but my mom was
strict, she was strict,
00:09:12.11\00:09:15.42
you know, with her
church and religion,
00:09:15.45\00:09:17.72
but the difference
is my father never stood
00:09:17.75\00:09:19.72
in the way.
00:09:19.75\00:09:21.22
He was always there to
say, "Whatever your mom says.
00:09:21.26\00:09:25.19
You go 6 o'clock in the morning,
00:09:25.23\00:09:27.00
you're going to prayer
meeting, a week of prayer."
00:09:27.03\00:09:29.63
And I didn't wanna go,
00:09:29.66\00:09:31.37
I didn't but I had to go
00:09:31.40\00:09:33.47
because my
father was there to say,
00:09:33.50\00:09:35.00
"You're going."
00:09:35.04\00:09:36.37
So he was a present father,
but not of the same faith.
00:09:36.40\00:09:41.31
And I guess that's
what our difference is,
00:09:41.34\00:09:43.18
you know.
00:09:43.21\00:09:44.55
I had a father, I
had that structure.
00:09:44.58\00:09:46.25
So fathers are important in
the lives of their children.
00:09:46.28\00:09:50.72
And my dad
worked away from home,
00:09:50.75\00:09:54.19
but when he comes,
00:09:54.22\00:09:55.56
you know, he'll come
home in the weekends,
00:09:55.59\00:09:56.99
but he was always there.
00:09:57.03\00:09:58.69
"What's going on, bring me...
00:09:58.73\00:10:00.06
Let's see your school work.
Let's see what's happening.
00:10:00.10\00:10:02.43
You read to me."
00:10:02.46\00:10:03.80
So when he was
there, he was present.
00:10:03.83\00:10:05.67
It made a difference in my life.
00:10:05.70\00:10:08.14
And so I try to model
the same thing for my son.
00:10:08.17\00:10:11.21
Modeling is important,
00:10:11.24\00:10:12.67
mentorship is
important, being able to...
00:10:12.71\00:10:14.88
Being a strong role
model, even like you said,
00:10:14.91\00:10:17.18
even it's not, if
you don't have a father,
00:10:17.21\00:10:21.88
but there is a man in the church
00:10:21.92\00:10:23.79
that can be a
positive role model,
00:10:23.82\00:10:27.36
it makes a huge difference.
00:10:27.39\00:10:28.96
And I believe that it will help
00:10:28.99\00:10:31.06
with the violence
that's going on in those days.
00:10:31.09\00:10:32.73
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:10:32.76\00:10:34.10
I would even go further to say,
00:10:34.13\00:10:36.26
I don't want to
make our single mothers
00:10:36.30\00:10:37.93
feel like they are in
a hopeless predicament
00:10:37.97\00:10:41.40
because they are single mothers
00:10:41.44\00:10:43.04
who have stepped up so
to speak within that role.
00:10:43.07\00:10:47.18
And by the grace of God,
00:10:47.21\00:10:48.54
have done tremendous
jobs in mentoring, right?
00:10:48.58\00:10:52.18
Now if you're a
single mother watching this
00:10:52.21\00:10:55.18
program and you're saying,
"Well, I have no husband,
00:10:55.22\00:10:57.95
he has no uncles,
00:10:57.99\00:10:59.45
he has no cousins
or whatever have you,
00:10:59.49\00:11:02.49
and I don't trust
the men in the church
00:11:02.52\00:11:04.63
for whatever reason."
00:11:04.66\00:11:05.99
Then introduce him
00:11:06.03\00:11:07.66
to the Man and
Father, Christ Jesus.
00:11:07.70\00:11:09.86
Yes, amen.
00:11:09.90\00:11:11.23
Make sure you take
time to introduce your child
00:11:11.27\00:11:14.47
to the masculine
character of Christ,
00:11:14.50\00:11:17.87
as a husband, as a provider,
as a shepherd, as a comforter.
00:11:17.91\00:11:23.65
Help your child or your
son to learn those traits
00:11:23.68\00:11:27.25
that Christ
demonstrated to His church
00:11:27.28\00:11:30.39
because there was no
greater man than Christ,
00:11:30.42\00:11:32.49
let's face it.
00:11:32.52\00:11:33.86
None. There was none.
00:11:33.89\00:11:35.69
There is no
greater man than Christ
00:11:35.72\00:11:38.46
and the model of life
that He demonstrated for us
00:11:38.49\00:11:41.10
while He was here.
00:11:41.13\00:11:42.46
And because that
was instilled in you,
00:11:42.50\00:11:44.23
whether you want it or not,
00:11:44.27\00:11:46.00
your mom instilled that in you,
00:11:46.03\00:11:47.70
it still, it was
able to bring you back
00:11:47.74\00:11:50.81
to that same Christ.
00:11:50.84\00:11:52.17
He was very important. Yes.
00:11:52.21\00:11:53.54
There is a lot
00:11:53.58\00:11:54.91
that I seemingly
did not listen to,
00:11:54.94\00:11:57.78
and I tell folk all the time
00:11:57.81\00:11:59.15
when I'm able to see them today.
00:11:59.18\00:12:00.95
Some often, a lot of
folk in church that did,
00:12:00.98\00:12:04.22
at some part
that are making effort
00:12:04.25\00:12:05.59
to reach out to me,
they don't even remember it,
00:12:05.62\00:12:07.06
you know.
00:12:07.09\00:12:08.42
And I remind them,
00:12:08.46\00:12:10.23
"You said this
to me at this time.
00:12:10.26\00:12:12.83
I remember when you said that.
00:12:12.86\00:12:14.56
I didn't react at that moment,
00:12:14.60\00:12:16.77
but later in life as
it came and it made sense,
00:12:16.80\00:12:19.53
the seed planted
and it bear fruit.
00:12:19.57\00:12:22.00
And I appreciate
what you have to share,
00:12:22.04\00:12:23.51
you know, and I
know you have to go
00:12:23.54\00:12:24.87
'cause I know Denry
00:12:24.91\00:12:26.24
should probably
be here right now.
00:12:26.27\00:12:27.61
So really appreciate you coming.
00:12:27.64\00:12:28.98
We'll see you later on.
00:12:29.01\00:12:30.35
Okay, thank you. Absolutely.
00:12:30.38\00:12:31.71
It was great being
here. Great to see you again.
00:12:31.75\00:12:33.08
Denry. How's it going?
00:12:36.62\00:12:37.95
Hey, how's it going,
man? Good to see you, man.
00:12:37.99\00:12:39.32
Good to see you.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
00:12:39.35\00:12:40.69
Thanks for having me.
00:12:40.72\00:12:42.06
So we're just talking about,
00:12:42.09\00:12:43.43
you know, saving our young
men from violence and, you know,
00:12:43.46\00:12:45.59
Paul has shared
some great testimony,
00:12:45.63\00:12:47.90
and Gordon had shared
and, you now, what about you?
00:12:47.93\00:12:50.03
What is your take
00:12:50.07\00:12:51.40
on how do we save our
young men from violence?
00:12:51.43\00:12:53.20
How do we help them?
00:12:53.23\00:12:54.57
You know, we keep
using this one word,
00:12:54.60\00:12:56.54
mentoring.
00:12:56.57\00:12:57.91
The importance of...
00:12:57.94\00:12:59.27
If there's not a father at home,
00:12:59.31\00:13:00.68
or even if there is a father,
that father needs to mentor,
00:13:00.71\00:13:04.25
disciple the children.
00:13:04.28\00:13:05.95
It really was
the men of the church
00:13:05.98\00:13:09.08
and my uncles who saved my life,
00:13:09.12\00:13:11.55
you know, I wasn't as out there
00:13:11.59\00:13:14.46
as Paul in the sense
of the violence part,
00:13:14.49\00:13:17.16
I was more in a dance hall.
00:13:17.19\00:13:18.76
You know, I loved
party, I loved the girls,
00:13:18.79\00:13:21.50
I loved that
life, the social life,
00:13:21.53\00:13:23.80
you know, and my uncles,
00:13:23.83\00:13:25.17
you know, they
were in the music,
00:13:25.20\00:13:26.53
playing the music, and
I wanted to be like them.
00:13:26.57\00:13:28.87
You know, I
want to be like them.
00:13:28.90\00:13:30.24
I told myself that
when I'm 16 years old,
00:13:30.27\00:13:32.61
I want to start having children,
00:13:32.64\00:13:34.04
I want to have
that kind of life,
00:13:34.08\00:13:36.34
but in a party life,
attracts the violence.
00:13:36.38\00:13:40.08
You know, you
can't separate the two,
00:13:40.12\00:13:41.55
you know, it's not realistic
because you have alcohol,
00:13:41.58\00:13:44.95
you have drugs
and stuff like that.
00:13:44.99\00:13:46.96
And I never forget one...
00:13:46.99\00:13:48.76
Couple of times,
but one specific time,
00:13:48.79\00:13:51.29
there was this roar
in a party in the Bronx,
00:13:51.33\00:13:54.40
and it was an
open party in the park,
00:13:54.43\00:13:55.96
and we're having fun.
00:13:56.00\00:13:57.33
I mean, everybody is drinking,
everybody is having fun.
00:13:57.37\00:14:00.30
I mean, even there were
kids there and everything.
00:14:00.34\00:14:02.30
All of a sudden,
shots were fired.
00:14:02.34\00:14:05.41
Shots were fired.
00:14:05.44\00:14:06.78
I was on the
stage with my uncle,
00:14:06.81\00:14:08.64
and I never forget my
uncle, he jumped on us,
00:14:08.68\00:14:13.28
myself, my cousin,
00:14:13.31\00:14:15.12
and my little
cousin, little girl.
00:14:15.15\00:14:16.99
He jumped on top of
us and saved our lives.
00:14:17.02\00:14:20.39
Wow.
00:14:20.42\00:14:21.76
And so much,
there were bullet holes
00:14:21.79\00:14:23.89
on the wall behind us.
00:14:23.93\00:14:26.06
Mercy. You see what I'm saying?
00:14:26.09\00:14:27.43
My other uncle, we
were driving home from that
00:14:27.46\00:14:32.70
because everybody
just got in their car,
00:14:32.73\00:14:34.10
panic, and ran.
00:14:34.14\00:14:35.47
And he was like, "Denry,
this life is not for you."
00:14:35.50\00:14:40.11
He was like, "I
know it looks flashy.
00:14:40.14\00:14:41.94
I know it looks like gold.
00:14:41.98\00:14:43.38
I know it looks all
great and everything,
00:14:43.41\00:14:45.51
but this is not you.
00:14:45.55\00:14:47.32
This life is not for you.
00:14:47.35\00:14:49.62
Stay in the church.
00:14:49.65\00:14:51.49
Be a preacher."
00:14:51.52\00:14:52.85
I mean, he was just...
00:14:52.89\00:14:54.22
I didn't even
think about pastoring.
00:14:54.26\00:14:55.59
I mean, I'm like 18 that time.
00:14:55.62\00:14:58.19
You know, I'm in that crossroad.
00:14:58.23\00:15:01.33
And he was just
like, "Stay in the church."
00:15:01.36\00:15:02.93
And then...
00:15:02.96\00:15:04.30
Okay.
00:15:04.33\00:15:05.67
While I'm in church now,
my stepfather, great guy,
00:15:05.70\00:15:08.97
great guy, but
he had his issues.
00:15:09.00\00:15:10.84
His father totally reject him.
00:15:10.87\00:15:12.87
So when he came into my
life at 11, 12 years old,
00:15:12.91\00:15:16.85
he really didn't know how
to deal with this dynamic.
00:15:16.88\00:15:20.48
Here's a son,
00:15:20.52\00:15:21.85
a boy that's not
his biological son.
00:15:21.88\00:15:24.55
So he tried a couple of
things, but he tried, he tried.
00:15:24.59\00:15:30.19
We're closer now,
00:15:30.23\00:15:31.56
but it was the
men of the church,
00:15:31.59\00:15:33.40
the elders of the
church who taught me
00:15:33.43\00:15:35.60
how to put a suit together,
00:15:35.63\00:15:37.63
you know, how to treat a woman,
00:15:37.67\00:15:40.04
you know, how to pray.
00:15:40.07\00:15:42.77
My stepfather
taught me how to worship
00:15:42.80\00:15:45.27
every Friday night,
00:15:45.31\00:15:47.31
every Friday night.
00:15:47.34\00:15:48.68
He couldn't sing a lick.
00:15:48.71\00:15:50.21
I mean, he can't
sing to save his life,
00:15:50.25\00:15:52.11
but every Friday, as
soon as the sun goes down,
00:15:52.15\00:15:55.28
he will stop
everything he's doing,
00:15:55.32\00:15:56.65
even if the house is half clean,
00:15:56.69\00:15:58.39
and he'll get his
Bible and his hymnal,
00:15:58.42\00:16:00.69
and sit in the living room,
00:16:00.72\00:16:02.16
and starts singing
to open the Sabbath.
00:16:02.19\00:16:05.13
And if I'm coming out late,
he's like, "Where were you?
00:16:05.16\00:16:08.00
Sabbath, you
know, Sabbath sunset."
00:16:08.03\00:16:10.00
That was a biblical
principle at the home.
00:16:10.03\00:16:13.40
It was the
spirituality, the prayer life.
00:16:13.44\00:16:15.97
And so the men of the
church, and my uncles,
00:16:16.00\00:16:18.71
you know, pushing me
out of that dance hall scene
00:16:18.74\00:16:21.94
is really what saved my life,
00:16:21.98\00:16:23.78
and I have to thank
God for God using men,
00:16:23.81\00:16:28.72
men to drag me out of darkness
00:16:28.75\00:16:32.45
into the marvelous
light of Jesus Christ.
00:16:32.49\00:16:34.66
So that's spiritual,
00:16:34.69\00:16:36.02
the spiritual life in the
home is an important component.
00:16:36.06\00:16:38.19
Oh, yes.
00:16:38.23\00:16:39.56
Fathers being spiritual,
00:16:39.59\00:16:40.93
it's an important component
to saving our young men
00:16:40.96\00:16:44.67
from violence of the street.
00:16:44.70\00:16:46.33
And I do believe again
00:16:46.37\00:16:48.34
that family worship
is an important part
00:16:48.37\00:16:51.34
as far as we need
to cover our children.
00:16:51.37\00:16:54.84
I love the way
Ellen White puts it that,
00:16:54.88\00:16:56.44
you know, I think I
shared this already,
00:16:56.48\00:16:59.21
is that the role of
the priest in the home
00:16:59.25\00:17:03.39
is, every morning,
you get on your knees,
00:17:03.42\00:17:07.02
and you pray,
00:17:07.06\00:17:08.39
and you intercede
for your children,
00:17:08.42\00:17:10.79
for a known as well
as their unknown sins,
00:17:10.83\00:17:13.19
cover them with prayer
00:17:13.23\00:17:14.60
because when you
cover them with prayer,
00:17:14.63\00:17:16.70
that's where you find the power,
00:17:16.73\00:17:19.53
that's where they
find the power to overcome
00:17:19.57\00:17:21.84
some of the temptations,
00:17:21.87\00:17:23.20
overcome the
vicissitudes of this life.
00:17:23.24\00:17:26.01
So the role, I think men,
00:17:26.04\00:17:27.71
we are to step up
and be praying men,
00:17:27.74\00:17:30.75
covering our children,
00:17:30.78\00:17:32.11
don't let them go
a day without prayer,
00:17:32.15\00:17:33.68
as well as the mothers.
00:17:33.72\00:17:35.55
So that spiritual life
is an important component
00:17:35.58\00:17:38.15
in saving our young men.
00:17:38.19\00:17:39.52
You know, part of it
too is, as men, we men,
00:17:39.55\00:17:42.49
if that's proper English,
00:17:42.52\00:17:43.86
need to allow
Christ to transform us.
00:17:43.89\00:17:45.96
Yes. Yeah, yes.
00:17:45.99\00:17:47.33
And accept forgiveness. Yes.
00:17:47.36\00:17:48.86
You know, we look at
Him as a hero in the Bible,
00:17:48.90\00:17:51.73
one of the greatest
Bible heroes, David,
00:17:51.77\00:17:55.20
but he was a terrible father
00:17:55.24\00:17:57.44
because David
held on to that guilt
00:17:57.47\00:18:00.08
and therefore, in stuff
00:18:00.11\00:18:01.98
where he could
have stopped his sons,
00:18:02.01\00:18:04.91
you know, when one
brother raped the sister,
00:18:04.95\00:18:08.75
the other
brother wanted vengeance.
00:18:08.78\00:18:10.12
Well, he could have
stood in there and say,
00:18:10.15\00:18:11.49
"Look, I know it's wrong,
but this is how we do it."
00:18:11.52\00:18:15.29
Or rather, what happened?
00:18:15.32\00:18:16.66
A year later, the
brother kills the brother,
00:18:16.69\00:18:19.16
and then the whole mess happens
with all of his children.
00:18:19.19\00:18:23.47
So as fathers, even
though, we all have our past,
00:18:23.50\00:18:28.17
we all have our past,
00:18:28.20\00:18:30.11
but we have to
let God use that past
00:18:30.14\00:18:32.67
as our testimony to our children
00:18:32.71\00:18:34.81
to keep
pointing people to Jesus.
00:18:34.84\00:18:36.34
Yes.
00:18:36.38\00:18:37.71
I came to the grip
that I can't find out
00:18:37.75\00:18:39.61
because even
those men of the church,
00:18:39.65\00:18:41.02
they were not perfect.
00:18:41.05\00:18:42.38
My uncles are not perfect,
00:18:42.42\00:18:43.75
they're still in
that social life.
00:18:43.79\00:18:45.95
They have some wisdom,
but they're not perfect.
00:18:45.99\00:18:47.82
So I had to learn as
a young man in my 20s,
00:18:47.86\00:18:51.23
my father is in heaven.
00:18:51.26\00:18:55.00
My example of a
father is the guy in heaven.
00:18:55.03\00:18:59.87
And so I patterned my life now
00:18:59.90\00:19:02.17
as a father who have children
after my father in heaven.
00:19:02.20\00:19:07.51
You know, and I
struggle with that still.
00:19:07.54\00:19:10.28
Even though I'm a chaplain,
00:19:10.31\00:19:12.18
I still struggle
with the knowledge
00:19:12.21\00:19:15.05
of the responsibility,
00:19:15.08\00:19:17.59
the spirituality
behind fatherhood,
00:19:17.62\00:19:20.16
of being the
spiritual leader of my home.
00:19:20.19\00:19:22.59
You know, I've
read Spirit of Prophecy,
00:19:22.62\00:19:24.03
I read, you know,
studied the Bible.
00:19:24.06\00:19:26.76
I've Googled different things,
00:19:26.80\00:19:28.73
you know,
whatever you wanna call it,
00:19:28.76\00:19:30.10
I've done it, you know,
00:19:30.13\00:19:31.47
but what does that look like
00:19:31.50\00:19:34.00
so you don't feel
like you're failing,
00:19:34.04\00:19:36.94
spiritually failing your family?
00:19:36.97\00:19:39.31
As a father, what do I do to...
00:19:39.34\00:19:41.88
Well, to know
that I'm doing okay?
00:19:41.91\00:19:43.28
I think you model...
00:19:43.31\00:19:44.65
You have to model
the life and be real.
00:19:44.68\00:19:48.42
A lot of times, we're fake,
00:19:48.45\00:19:50.35
you know, try to show
our children one side,
00:19:50.39\00:19:53.79
and, you know, try
to be something else.
00:19:53.82\00:19:56.26
We need to be
real with our children.
00:19:56.29\00:19:57.99
Yes, we're going
to make mistakes,
00:19:58.03\00:19:59.79
but I remember
my son saying to me,
00:19:59.83\00:20:03.47
"The one thing that I know
00:20:03.50\00:20:05.37
is at a certain time
I find my dad praying.
00:20:05.40\00:20:07.94
I can go in his office,
and my dad is on his knees,
00:20:07.97\00:20:11.67
and he's there for hours."
00:20:11.71\00:20:13.84
My son, I've watched him now,
00:20:13.88\00:20:17.05
he's actually
modeling the same thing.
00:20:17.08\00:20:20.12
Well, "Justin, where
are you?" "I'm in worship."
00:20:20.15\00:20:24.22
He's been in
worship for over an hour.
00:20:24.25\00:20:27.62
This is my 19-year-old, now 20.
00:20:27.66\00:20:30.79
And all I did was model.
00:20:30.83\00:20:33.66
And I wasn't doing it for
him, I'm doing this for me,
00:20:33.70\00:20:37.57
this is for my
spiritual development
00:20:37.60\00:20:39.47
because I'm covering my family,
I'm covering my children,
00:20:39.50\00:20:42.64
but just that model, you know...
00:20:42.67\00:20:44.74
And what we have
done in our home,
00:20:44.77\00:20:47.48
we have allowed them
to express themselves
00:20:47.51\00:20:51.38
in family worship.
00:20:51.41\00:20:52.81
In other words,
we've taught them,
00:20:52.85\00:20:54.75
"Listen, you have to develop
00:20:54.78\00:20:56.22
a personal
relationship with Jesus.
00:20:56.25\00:20:58.39
You have to get to
know Jesus yourself."
00:20:58.42\00:21:01.32
So in the mornings,
00:21:01.36\00:21:02.69
we're not concerned about
pulling the family together.
00:21:02.72\00:21:05.33
What we're concerned about
00:21:05.36\00:21:06.76
is them having
00:21:06.80\00:21:08.13
their own personal relationship,
00:21:08.16\00:21:09.50
because we're going
to be out of picture.
00:21:09.53\00:21:11.43
If they don't know
Christ for themselves,
00:21:11.47\00:21:13.30
if they don't
have that relationship
00:21:13.34\00:21:14.77
for themselves,
00:21:14.80\00:21:16.14
then I believe it's
not gonna be the best.
00:21:16.17\00:21:19.41
So model it,
00:21:19.44\00:21:21.04
teach them to
have that relationship,
00:21:21.08\00:21:24.75
and just be
real, got to be real.
00:21:24.78\00:21:27.78
So what I'm
listening to you saying is,
00:21:27.82\00:21:29.68
it's truly not
that difficult per se
00:21:29.72\00:21:32.75
as maybe the church
society might say it
00:21:32.79\00:21:36.39
because, you
know, my five-year-old,
00:21:36.42\00:21:38.43
we get in the
car, automatically,
00:21:38.46\00:21:40.30
"Dad, we can't
leave, we got to pray."
00:21:40.33\00:21:42.86
Or if we do something,
even the one-year-old,
00:21:42.90\00:21:45.67
when we put a
food in front of her,
00:21:45.70\00:21:47.40
she'll put her hands together,
00:21:47.44\00:21:49.14
and she'll mumble something
00:21:49.17\00:21:50.51
'cause can't understand it,
00:21:50.54\00:21:51.87
but you hear the
amen loud and clear.
00:21:51.91\00:21:53.84
And, you know, I
think sometimes, as fathers,
00:21:53.88\00:21:57.58
you know,
especially, as pastors,
00:21:57.61\00:22:00.88
or whatever you
wanna call, as fathers,
00:22:00.92\00:22:02.78
I think sometimes we
overcomplicate spirituality.
00:22:02.82\00:22:05.45
Yeah.
00:22:05.49\00:22:06.82
We make it like this huge beast
that we cannot understand it,
00:22:06.86\00:22:10.19
like we have to take
like the Old Testament,
00:22:10.23\00:22:13.53
we had to take this
lamb and go slaughter it.
00:22:13.56\00:22:17.13
It seems like...
I know I've done it.
00:22:17.17\00:22:18.70
It seems like overcomplicating
the spirituality
00:22:18.73\00:22:20.57
when in fact it's modeling.
00:22:20.60\00:22:22.60
Yes, modeling.
00:22:22.64\00:22:23.97
Not perfection,
00:22:24.01\00:22:25.34
but modeling imperfection
00:22:25.37\00:22:27.54
through the
perfection of Christ.
00:22:27.58\00:22:28.91
Amen.
00:22:28.94\00:22:30.28
Because that's
what Jesus did. Yes.
00:22:30.31\00:22:31.65
Jesus, what Jesus did?
00:22:31.68\00:22:33.01
Is He modeled? He modeled, yeah.
00:22:33.05\00:22:34.58
And that's all we need
to do is just to model,
00:22:34.62\00:22:37.65
but I'm gonna
stress it again, be real.
00:22:37.69\00:22:42.02
Be real, be authentic. Yeah.
00:22:42.06\00:22:44.26
You know, as a pastor,
00:22:44.29\00:22:47.30
you don't realize
00:22:47.33\00:22:48.76
that you have two churches
here in your congregation.
00:22:48.80\00:22:53.74
The one that
sees you on Sabbath,
00:22:53.77\00:22:56.14
and in prayer meeting
or whatever, Bible studies,
00:22:56.17\00:22:58.64
whatever, but there is a church
00:22:58.67\00:23:00.41
that sees you every
day, and that's your family.
00:23:00.44\00:23:04.58
That's my family.
00:23:04.61\00:23:05.95
It blew me away, my son,
00:23:05.98\00:23:07.72
recently my son
at Children's day,
00:23:07.75\00:23:09.85
they ask my son to
preach, one of the oldest.
00:23:09.88\00:23:13.09
And the other one
said, he's gonna sing,
00:23:13.12\00:23:14.92
do the appeal song, right?
00:23:14.96\00:23:16.99
So I'm helping him
prepare, helping him prepare,
00:23:17.03\00:23:19.53
I got his notes
together and everything.
00:23:19.56\00:23:22.10
That Sabbath, he's
supposed to preach.
00:23:22.13\00:23:23.70
I go to him, I was
like, "Where's your notes?"
00:23:23.73\00:23:25.37
He said, "Don't worry."
00:23:25.40\00:23:26.74
He said, "I'm not
going to use the notes."
00:23:26.77\00:23:28.90
Where he got that from?
00:23:28.94\00:23:30.71
I don't preach with notes.
00:23:30.74\00:23:32.97
So he want to preach, he
saw me preach without notes,
00:23:33.01\00:23:37.05
and he did a fantastic job,
00:23:37.08\00:23:39.08
and then the
younger brother came
00:23:39.11\00:23:40.48
and sang and did the appeal,
00:23:40.52\00:23:42.25
and all these
children and teenagers
00:23:42.28\00:23:43.95
came off for the appeal.
00:23:43.99\00:23:45.42
I mean, you want to see that.
00:23:45.45\00:23:47.46
You don't want to hear
that your son is in a casket
00:23:47.49\00:23:50.73
or going off to
prison or anything.
00:23:50.76\00:23:52.36
You want to hear
00:23:52.39\00:23:53.73
that your son has
given his life to God,
00:23:53.76\00:23:56.16
even your daughter, and
then my little daughter,
00:23:56.20\00:23:58.33
she's four years
old, she did the welcome.
00:23:58.37\00:24:00.37
She wasn't shy,
she wasn't timid.
00:24:00.40\00:24:02.40
"Good morning, church."
00:24:02.44\00:24:03.77
And she was just so, you know...
00:24:03.81\00:24:05.14
Because they see
that I'm not afraid.
00:24:05.17\00:24:06.64
So people are like,
00:24:06.68\00:24:08.01
"Why is your
children don't afraid
00:24:08.04\00:24:09.48
to go up to the pulpit.
00:24:09.51\00:24:10.85
They're not afraid to pray,
00:24:10.88\00:24:12.31
they're not afraid
to do these things."
00:24:12.35\00:24:13.68
Because they see my wife
00:24:13.72\00:24:16.89
and myself modeled these things.
00:24:16.92\00:24:19.02
So they follow our examples.
00:24:19.05\00:24:20.89
Even one morning, my son was...
00:24:20.92\00:24:23.12
The night
before, my son was like,
00:24:23.16\00:24:25.06
"How come we don't
have family worship
00:24:25.09\00:24:27.30
in the mornings no more?
00:24:27.33\00:24:28.66
We have worship at night,
00:24:28.70\00:24:30.10
but we used to
have family worship
00:24:30.13\00:24:31.47
in the mornings."
00:24:31.50\00:24:32.97
And my wife and I
looked at each other and like,
00:24:33.00\00:24:34.80
"Wow!"
00:24:34.84\00:24:36.17
He's eight years old,
and he wants to have worship.
00:24:36.20\00:24:40.18
You know, you brought up a
good point is the fact that,
00:24:40.21\00:24:42.91
in order to keep
and save our young men
00:24:42.94\00:24:45.11
from violence
including our church,
00:24:45.15\00:24:47.12
we have to show them
the imperfect relationship
00:24:47.15\00:24:51.52
through the perfect relationship
00:24:51.55\00:24:52.95
with Christ,
00:24:52.99\00:24:54.32
meaning that you know,
00:24:54.36\00:24:55.69
we're not gonna
be perfect fathers,
00:24:55.72\00:24:57.53
but we got to show them
that there's a perfect God
00:24:57.56\00:24:59.86
that can save
them from themselves.
00:24:59.89\00:25:01.70
And I don't know,
00:25:01.73\00:25:03.06
that's just
something that I picked up
00:25:03.10\00:25:04.43
from what you were saying.
00:25:04.47\00:25:05.80
What do you think, Gordon?
00:25:05.83\00:25:07.17
I think it's true showing
them how imperfect we are
00:25:07.20\00:25:11.61
being able to let them have...
00:25:11.64\00:25:14.34
talk to them
about different stories
00:25:14.38\00:25:15.81
about your life day-by-day,
00:25:15.84\00:25:17.18
you know, they
don't think their dad is,
00:25:17.21\00:25:19.98
you know, so
perfect, you know, whatever.
00:25:20.02\00:25:22.48
For me, my son,
00:25:22.52\00:25:24.42
you know, he sees and
he knows the relationship
00:25:24.45\00:25:27.76
that his father have with God.
00:25:27.79\00:25:29.72
He sees my prayer time,
00:25:29.76\00:25:31.23
he knows that I'm there praying.
00:25:31.26\00:25:32.93
And now, in his devotional life,
00:25:32.96\00:25:35.96
he's actually
picking up the same things.
00:25:36.00\00:25:37.83
He spends hours
in devotional prayer.
00:25:37.87\00:25:41.30
And so the
modeling is important,
00:25:41.34\00:25:43.41
just being there and being real,
00:25:43.44\00:25:45.71
you know, authentic.
00:25:45.74\00:25:47.08
So you're not
showing one face at church
00:25:47.11\00:25:48.98
and your one face at home.
00:25:49.01\00:25:50.58
Yeah, just be
real for your children.
00:25:50.61\00:25:52.28
I think it's the best
in it, any parent can do.
00:25:52.31\00:25:54.05
Yeah.
00:25:54.08\00:25:55.42
And what are you
passionate about?
00:25:55.45\00:25:57.22
What are you passionate about?
00:25:57.25\00:25:58.59
If you're passionate about God,
00:25:58.62\00:26:00.66
it's a higher
chance for your children
00:26:00.69\00:26:02.22
to be passionate about God too.
00:26:02.26\00:26:04.06
If you're
passionate about money,
00:26:04.09\00:26:05.43
whether you are working an
honest job and working hard,
00:26:05.46\00:26:07.93
and they see you working hard,
00:26:07.96\00:26:09.56
then they're going to
think about the easier way
00:26:09.60\00:26:11.23
which can lead to violence.
00:26:11.27\00:26:12.60
So what are you
passionate about?
00:26:12.63\00:26:13.97
And then, you have
to know your children
00:26:14.00\00:26:15.77
'cause my daughter
is totally different
00:26:15.80\00:26:17.41
from my son.
00:26:17.44\00:26:18.77
And she needs a
little more work,
00:26:18.81\00:26:21.44
little more encouragement.
00:26:21.48\00:26:23.01
So we have to encourage her,
we have to be there for her.
00:26:23.04\00:26:25.98
And my son, you know,
he's pretty much there,
00:26:26.01\00:26:30.29
but she needs encouragement.
00:26:30.32\00:26:32.05
Different styles,
00:26:32.09\00:26:33.46
different methods for
the different children.
00:26:33.49\00:26:35.19
It's not one size fit all,
but I think modeling to her,
00:26:35.22\00:26:41.16
she more will grab the mother,
her mom side of the modeling,
00:26:41.20\00:26:45.37
but that Christian
modeling is very important.
00:26:45.40\00:26:47.44
It goes a long way.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:26:47.47\00:26:48.80
I appreciate that
00:26:48.84\00:26:50.17
'cause just can
keep going on, man.
00:26:50.21\00:26:51.94
We have a lot to talk about
00:26:51.97\00:26:53.81
and I just appreciate
everything you shared.
00:26:53.84\00:26:56.48
And for the viewing audience,
00:26:56.51\00:26:59.65
again, fatherhood is
not meant to be perfect,
00:26:59.68\00:27:02.62
you know, the
reason we do this program,
00:27:02.65\00:27:05.45
the reason we sit
down and discuss so openly
00:27:05.49\00:27:07.66
is because we wanna
show you that as ministers,
00:27:07.69\00:27:10.33
we're just as
messed up as you are.
00:27:10.36\00:27:12.53
Mercy. We're just as imperfect.
00:27:12.56\00:27:14.46
Yeah.
00:27:14.50\00:27:15.83
You know, we may be on camera,
but we can't hide who we are.
00:27:15.86\00:27:21.97
At the same time,
00:27:22.00\00:27:23.34
we can't hide who
God has made us to be.
00:27:23.37\00:27:25.21
Amen.
00:27:25.24\00:27:26.57
We're all broken, we're all...
00:27:26.61\00:27:28.74
You know, we can all fell
under category of bad fathers,
00:27:28.78\00:27:32.18
but God knows
we're good fathers,
00:27:32.21\00:27:34.48
we're just imperfect,
00:27:34.52\00:27:35.85
we need a little
tweaking, a little help.
00:27:35.88\00:27:38.05
And in order to keep
our young men, young ladies,
00:27:38.09\00:27:40.86
our kids from violence,
00:27:40.89\00:27:43.29
we have to do
the very best we can
00:27:43.32\00:27:46.93
to hang on to Christ.
00:27:46.96\00:27:48.96
It may seem redundant at
times, it may seem weird,
00:27:49.00\00:27:51.37
but you know what?
00:27:51.40\00:27:52.73
It saves lives
because Christ saves lives.
00:27:52.77\00:27:56.10
Do yourself a favor.
00:27:56.14\00:27:57.47
Be a father.
Thank you for watching.
00:27:57.51\00:27:59.01