A good father
takes time to play.
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He has strong integrity.
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He is someone that
is truly dedicated.
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He's not afraid
to show his love.
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He is a caring provider,
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and he is a kind
spiritual leader.
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These are just a few ways
to describe a father's heart.
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Hi, welcome to A Father's Heart.
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I'm your host Xavier.
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And today, we're
going to be discussing
00:00:34.46\00:00:35.80
saving our young
men from violence
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but this is part two.
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As we have discussed
before, there's been an issue,
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an epidemic over young
men killing each other.
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And with me to
discuss this once more
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are my friends Gordon and Paul.
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How are you guys doing today?
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Welcome back. Doing great.
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Hey, brother.
Blessed to be here, man.
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So last time, we left off.
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We were discussing
the different things
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that were
happening to our young men
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in the community and, Paul,
you shared a powerful testimony
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of how God brought you
out of that environment
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of gangs and killing.
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And luckily, you
know, you're here today
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because of God's grace.
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Yes, indeed, indeed.
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I want to continue
on a point of prayer,
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prayer in the
church, prayer in the home.
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The spirituality of
our home environment,
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spirituality of the church
environment, both matters,
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both play a significant
role in helping our children
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to remain cohesively
bonded to this movement.
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I want to share
quickly a short testimony.
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At some point, maybe
I was about 17 or so,
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I'd already been arrested a
few times, I've been stabbed,
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I've been in a
shooting incident.
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I was quite
distant from anywhere close
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to desiring to be a prodigy.
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Mom called me up one
morning, and she's like,
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"Son, I have
something sad to tell you.
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And I wonder if you
can join us this afternoon
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for prayer meeting,
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group of friends
coming over to the house
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and we're going
to pray for you."
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"No.
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For what? What? No, man.
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Oh, pray this,
pray that, pray this."
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"No, no, no, son.
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I'm serious.
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The board is meeting to decide
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whether or not to
write you out of the church
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because they have
learned that, you know,
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you haven't been there
in over six, seven years,
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and people are
aware you're in the street
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and you're dealing with
drugs and this kind of stuff
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and you carry
firearms and all of this.
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And they're saying, you know,
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it's an infringement
of your baptismal oath.
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So you need to be removed
from the books of the church.
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And so we're praying for
God to lead that exercise."
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I was like, "Man, who cares!
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So what?
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Let him take my name off.
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What do I care?"
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My mother pleaded
with me some more.
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So then they met the evening,
her and group of other friends
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from Brooklyn
Faith, Sister Sims,
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Sister Garvey, I believe,
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was there too,
and they all prayed.
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I did joined them briefly.
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And then the next,
maybe two days later or so,
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my mom, you know,
all moved from tears
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and depression
preliminary to this meeting.
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Now she's all
jubilant and excited.
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And she said, "Son, son,
they voted to keep your name
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on the books.
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As a matter of fact,
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out of the entire
church board voted,
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only one person voted
for you to be removed.
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Everybody else
said no unanimously."
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You know what?
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It seems trivial,
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and even at the point
of her telling me that,
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I still was like,
"Yeah, whatever, man!
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So what?"
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But it began to resonate,
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you know days
after, I said, "Wow.
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I haven't been to
that church in how long.
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I only go there
if I'd been injured
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and I'm going to hospital
or I have a court hearing
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or something of that sort.
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I need to, you know, to pray
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so I don't get
convicted over there.
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You know, this is how much
those people care about me.
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And it did have a long
lasting significant impact,
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even though I didn't go back
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through the doors of the church.
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I never really went
back to Brooklyn Faith.
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I reclaim my faith in the
Lord at age 26 in Miami, Florida
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when I moved and
then was on my own
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and we're dealing
with the struggles of life.
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I was trying to
pull my life together.
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Still mixed up
in drug trafficking
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and these kind of things,
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but God was calling
me, and then finally,
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I gave my heart
to the Lord in Miami.
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So the church did play an
important role in your life.
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Because the church
never stopped praying.
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And before I forget,
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I don't want to
forget to ask you.
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You mentioned, I know
after our last program
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we had discussed, you know,
just one on one, you and I,
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you mentioned that you
had a friend of yours as,
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maybe interested in coming today
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to talk a little bit more to...
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In this topic.
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Yes, yes, that
we can share also.
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He grew up in Holland,
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and I think he has
something significantly,
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he would be able to share also.
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So he's coming
little later or...
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Yes, he'll be
joining us a little later.
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Awesome, awesome.
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You know, we're two rows.
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We were two rows, as I said,
same community, same church,
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we didn't go to
the same exact schools,
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same culture from South
Guyana, America, he also is.
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But there was distinct
differences in our rearing.
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Now I had a grandma
that was a lay minister,
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church planter, strict
fundamental type person,
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and drop the rod seriously,
she raised me to age 10
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but I was
always raised by women.
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I met my father when I
was about 15 years old.
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Well, I saw him as a
kid and interacted with him
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as a kid from time to time
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but I have no memory
of being parented by him
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until I was about 15, I
finally met him at that time.
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First thing I
said to my father was,
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"Look, I hope you're
not coming in my life
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to try to be a father
'cause I'm a man already."
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My father also had a
history of messing violence
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with my mother
that I never witnessed
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but I heard enough about it.
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That's when I said
to my dad at 15, it was,
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"Yo, you could come in,
you could visit but I tell you,
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if you put your hand on
my mother, I will kill you."
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Those are my
exact words to my dad.
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So my rearing was primarily
by females, my grandma,
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my sister and I,
and other female cousin.
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Then once I left South
America and came to Brooklyn,
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my mother, my sister
and I, and another aunt.
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So it was always female nurture.
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I also share this
to show the importance
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or the
significance of male involvement
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in a young man's life.
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So here I am in the streets,
I'm about 14 or 15 years old.
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I'm deep in the
stuff by that age already.
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There's not a day
that I don't have a knife
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or a gun in my pocket.
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One day, I get home,
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and there was a
shootout in the neighborhood.
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A fight and then
ended up as a shootout.
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I had two
friends that I was closer
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that I grew up
like brothers living
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just the next
building across from me.
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They were a bit more structured,
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so they weren't
there to see all the stuff
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because their
mother had specific times
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that they had to be in the house
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and it's all interesting.
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She also was a single mother
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but she was far
stricter than my mom.
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So I'm bringing
to them the news,
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and I'm in the heat
of this conversation
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with my main
friend, telling him,
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"Oh, and they yelled and
they did this thing, man.
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This dude pulled
out a pistol, man,
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he started chasing the guy."
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And then I said,
"Hold on, hold on, hold on.
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I got to go to rest room."
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So the story was so
heated, you know, he was like,
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"All right,"
which is not uncommon,
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he followed me
into the rest room.
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So when we got
into the rest room,
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I'm still telling him.
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I said, "Yeah, man.
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Then the guy started shooting."
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And I sat down on the commode.
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Once I sat down, he
said, "Ah, wait, man.
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Yo, yo, I'll
come back, you know,
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you finish the
story when you're done."
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I said, "No, no, relax,
I'm just doing number one,"
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you know, and continued talking.
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And he said to me,
"You're doing number one?
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Why are you
sitting down on the bowl?"
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And then you
know, he was about to,
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maybe follow up with
some demeaning comment though.
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I was much crazier than he.
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I was the thug, little
bad guy with the pistols
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and all this kind of stuff.
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He knew better than
to try to embarrass me.
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So he cut his conversation.
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He said, "You know what,
00:07:42.86\00:07:44.19
just forget it, just forget it."
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And I said to
him, "Man, relax, man.
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I'm just doing number one."
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He said,
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"So why are you
sitting down on the bowl?"
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I looked up at him
like, I don't know.
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We just stared at each other.
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The reason why, I had
never been in the habit
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of seeing a man
use the rest room.
00:08:01.84\00:08:04.31
Wow, wow, wow.
00:08:04.35\00:08:05.78
Grown up all my
life, just woman.
00:08:05.81\00:08:07.95
And to this day, I
share it often in lectures
00:08:07.98\00:08:11.95
and in mentorship
meetings to recruit,
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to share the urgency
and the importance of that.
00:08:14.82\00:08:17.53
That's how
significant it is. Mercy.
00:08:17.56\00:08:19.46
Even today as an adult,
if I have my free choice,
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and I'm in my own
home, that's what I do.
00:08:22.10\00:08:24.67
I don't stand up
00:08:24.70\00:08:26.13
because that's what was nurtured
00:08:26.17\00:08:27.57
into me by observation.
00:08:27.60\00:08:28.94
Oh. Mercy.
00:08:28.97\00:08:30.31
Something that seemingly trivial
00:08:30.34\00:08:33.11
can make a significant
impact on the development
00:08:33.14\00:08:36.34
of the male psyche
of a young man psyche
00:08:36.38\00:08:38.85
and his mind.
00:08:38.88\00:08:40.22
And there are many others,
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I'm just using that
one as an illustration.
00:08:41.62\00:08:42.95
So if a father
is not in the home,
00:08:42.98\00:08:46.45
make sure there is a
fatherly figure present
00:08:46.49\00:08:50.83
for that young man or
young men to be nurtured,
00:08:50.86\00:08:54.73
a positive fatherly
figure, not just anybody.
00:08:54.76\00:08:58.83
Someone positive,
someone constructive,
00:08:58.87\00:09:00.97
someone that's going to
help to build their self worth.
00:09:01.00\00:09:04.31
Two different
roads, same environment,
00:09:04.34\00:09:07.91
and Gordon can share a
little bit of what helped him
00:09:07.94\00:09:10.45
to make the
choices that I didn't make.
00:09:10.48\00:09:12.61
I guess my father was there,
00:09:12.65\00:09:14.48
he was not Adventist
but my mom was strict,
00:09:14.52\00:09:17.49
she was strict
with her, you know,
00:09:17.52\00:09:19.42
with her church and religion.
00:09:19.45\00:09:21.22
But the difference is my
father never stood in the way.
00:09:21.26\00:09:25.49
He was always there to
say, "Whatever your mom says.
00:09:25.53\00:09:28.66
You go 6 o'clock in the morning,
00:09:28.70\00:09:30.50
you're going to prayer
meeting, a week of prayer."
00:09:30.53\00:09:33.20
And I didn't want to
go, I didn't but I had to go
00:09:33.23\00:09:36.91
because my father was
there to say, "You're going."
00:09:36.94\00:09:39.54
So he was a present father
but not of the same faith.
00:09:39.57\00:09:44.91
And I guess that's what
our difference is, you know.
00:09:44.95\00:09:47.68
I had a father, I
had that structure.
00:09:47.72\00:09:49.78
So fathers are important in
the lives of their children.
00:09:49.82\00:09:54.16
And my dad worked away
from home, but when he comes...
00:09:54.19\00:09:58.79
You know, he'll come
home in the weekends,
00:09:58.83\00:10:00.40
but he was always there.
00:10:00.43\00:10:02.13
"What's going on, bring me...
00:10:02.16\00:10:03.50
Let's see your school work,
let's see what's happening.
00:10:03.53\00:10:05.70
You read to me."
00:10:05.73\00:10:07.17
So when he was
there, he was present.
00:10:07.20\00:10:09.20
It made a difference in my life.
00:10:09.24\00:10:11.81
And so I try to model
the same thing for my son.
00:10:11.84\00:10:14.71
Modeling is important,
mentorship is important,
00:10:14.74\00:10:17.48
being able to...
00:10:17.51\00:10:18.85
Being a strong role
model, even like you said,
00:10:18.88\00:10:20.65
even it's not, if
you don't have a father,
00:10:20.68\00:10:25.39
but there is a man in the church
00:10:25.42\00:10:27.29
that can be a
positive role model,
00:10:27.32\00:10:30.89
it makes a huge difference.
00:10:30.93\00:10:32.53
And I believe that it
will help with the violence
00:10:32.56\00:10:35.23
that's going on in those days.
00:10:35.26\00:10:36.60
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:10:36.63\00:10:37.97
I would even go further to say,
00:10:38.00\00:10:39.77
I don't want to make
our single mothers feel like
00:10:39.80\00:10:42.44
they are in a
hopeless predicament
00:10:42.47\00:10:44.97
because they are single mothers
who have stepped up so to speak
00:10:45.01\00:10:49.54
within that role.
00:10:49.58\00:10:50.91
And by the grace of God,
00:10:50.95\00:10:52.28
have done tremendous
jobs in mentoring, right?
00:10:52.31\00:10:54.08
Yes, yes.
00:10:54.12\00:10:55.65
Now if you're a single
mother watching this program
00:10:55.68\00:10:58.79
and you're saying,
"Well, I have no husband,
00:10:58.82\00:11:01.49
he has no uncles,
00:11:01.52\00:11:03.09
he has no cousins
or whatever have you,
00:11:03.12\00:11:06.03
and I don't trust
the men in the church
00:11:06.06\00:11:08.13
for whatever reason."
00:11:08.16\00:11:09.60
Then introduce him to the
Man and Father, Christ Jesus.
00:11:09.63\00:11:13.47
Yes, amen.
00:11:13.50\00:11:14.84
Make sure you take
time to introduce your child
00:11:14.87\00:11:17.94
to the masculine
character of Christ,
00:11:17.97\00:11:21.44
as a husband, as a provider,
00:11:21.48\00:11:24.01
as a shepherd, as a comforter.
00:11:24.05\00:11:27.18
Help your child or your
son to learn those traits
00:11:27.22\00:11:30.79
that Christ
demonstrated to His church.
00:11:30.82\00:11:33.86
Because there was no greater
man than Christ, let's face it.
00:11:33.89\00:11:36.69
None.
00:11:36.73\00:11:38.06
There was, there is no
greater man than Christ
00:11:38.09\00:11:41.86
and the model of
life that He demonstrated
00:11:41.90\00:11:44.33
for us while He was here.
00:11:44.37\00:11:45.73
And because that
was instilled in you,
00:11:45.77\00:11:47.74
whether you want it or not,
your mom instilled that in you,
00:11:47.77\00:11:51.24
it still, it was able to bring
you back to that same Christ.
00:11:51.27\00:11:55.58
He was very important. Yes.
00:11:55.61\00:11:56.95
There is a lot that I
seemingly did not listen to,
00:11:56.98\00:12:01.25
and I tell folk all the time,
and I'm able to see them today.
00:12:01.28\00:12:04.49
Some often, a lot of
folk in church that did,
00:12:04.52\00:12:07.69
at some part that are making
effort to reach out to me,
00:12:07.72\00:12:09.52
they don't even
remember it, you know.
00:12:09.56\00:12:11.66
And I remind them, "You
said this to me at this time.
00:12:11.69\00:12:16.43
I remember when you said that.
00:12:16.46\00:12:18.07
I didn't react at that
moment but later in life
00:12:18.10\00:12:21.14
as it came and it made sense,
00:12:21.17\00:12:23.00
the seed planted
and it bear fruit.
00:12:23.04\00:12:25.57
And I appreciate
what you have to share,
00:12:25.61\00:12:27.24
you know, and I
know you have to go,
00:12:27.28\00:12:28.61
'cause I know Denry should
probably be here right now.
00:12:28.64\00:12:30.68
So really appreciate you coming.
00:12:30.71\00:12:32.85
We'll see you
later on. Absolutely.
00:12:32.88\00:12:34.22
Okay? It was great being here.
00:12:34.25\00:12:35.58
Great to see you again.
00:12:35.62\00:12:36.95
Denry.
00:12:39.55\00:12:40.89
How's it going?
Hey, how's it going, man?
00:12:40.92\00:12:42.26
Good to see you.
Good to see you, man.
00:12:42.29\00:12:43.63
Good to see you.
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
00:12:43.66\00:12:44.99
Thanks for having me.
00:12:45.03\00:12:46.36
So we're just
talking about, you know,
00:12:46.39\00:12:47.73
saving our young men
from violence and you know,
00:12:47.76\00:12:49.10
Paul has shared
some great testimony,
00:12:49.13\00:12:51.43
and Gordon had shared.
00:12:51.47\00:12:52.87
What about you?
00:12:52.90\00:12:54.24
What is your
take on how do we save
00:12:54.27\00:12:55.60
our young men from violence?
00:12:55.64\00:12:56.97
How do we help them?
00:12:57.01\00:12:58.34
You know, we keep using
this one word, mentoring.
00:12:58.37\00:13:01.11
The importance of...
00:13:01.14\00:13:02.84
If there's not a father at home,
00:13:02.88\00:13:04.28
or even if there is a father,
00:13:04.31\00:13:06.11
that father needs to
mentor, disciple the children.
00:13:06.15\00:13:09.45
It really was the men
of the church and my uncles
00:13:09.48\00:13:13.36
who saved my life, you know.
00:13:13.39\00:13:15.32
I wasn't as out there as Paul
00:13:15.36\00:13:18.69
in the sense of
the violence part,
00:13:18.73\00:13:20.60
I was more in a dance hall.
00:13:20.63\00:13:22.23
You know, I loved
party, I loved the girls,
00:13:22.26\00:13:25.03
I loved that life,
the social life, you know.
00:13:25.07\00:13:27.60
And my uncles, you
know, they were in the music,
00:13:27.64\00:13:29.80
playing the music, and
I wanted to be like them.
00:13:29.84\00:13:32.41
You know, I
want to be like them.
00:13:32.44\00:13:33.78
I told myself that
when I'm 16 years old,
00:13:33.81\00:13:36.04
I want to start having children,
00:13:36.08\00:13:37.68
I want to have
that kind of life.
00:13:37.71\00:13:39.95
But in a party life,
attracts the violence.
00:13:39.98\00:13:43.65
You know, you
can't separate the two.
00:13:43.69\00:13:45.02
You know, it's not realistic
because you have alcohol,
00:13:45.05\00:13:48.46
you have drugs
and stuff like that.
00:13:48.49\00:13:50.46
And I never forget one...
00:13:50.49\00:13:52.29
Couple of times,
but one specific time,
00:13:52.33\00:13:54.86
there was this roar
in a party in the Bronx,
00:13:54.90\00:13:57.87
and it was an
open party in the park,
00:13:57.90\00:13:59.47
and we're having fun.
00:13:59.50\00:14:00.84
I mean, everybody is drinking,
everybody is having fun.
00:14:00.87\00:14:03.74
I mean, even there are
kids there and everything.
00:14:03.77\00:14:05.81
All of a sudden,
shots were fired.
00:14:05.84\00:14:10.01
I was on the
stage with my uncle,
00:14:10.05\00:14:12.18
and I never forget my
uncle, he jumped on us,
00:14:12.21\00:14:16.95
myself, my cousin,
00:14:16.99\00:14:18.65
and my little
cousin, little girl.
00:14:18.69\00:14:20.46
He jumped on top of
us and saved our lives.
00:14:20.49\00:14:23.79
Wow.
00:14:23.83\00:14:25.16
And so much,
there were bullet holes
00:14:25.19\00:14:27.40
on the wall behind us.
00:14:27.43\00:14:28.76
Mercy.
00:14:28.80\00:14:30.13
You see what I'm saying?
00:14:30.17\00:14:31.50
My other uncle, we
were driving home from that
00:14:31.53\00:14:36.20
because everybody just got
in their car, panic, and ran.
00:14:36.24\00:14:39.04
And he was like, "Denry,
this life is not for you."
00:14:39.07\00:14:43.55
He was like, "I
know it looks flashy.
00:14:43.58\00:14:45.45
I know it looks like gold.
00:14:45.48\00:14:46.88
I know it looks all
great and everything,
00:14:46.92\00:14:49.05
but this is not you.
00:14:49.08\00:14:50.89
This life is not for you.
00:14:50.92\00:14:53.15
Stay in the church.
00:14:53.19\00:14:55.09
Be a preacher."
00:14:55.12\00:14:56.46
I mean, he was just...
00:14:56.49\00:14:57.83
I didn't even
think about pastoring.
00:14:57.86\00:14:59.19
I mean, I'm like 18 that time.
00:14:59.23\00:15:01.70
I'm in that crossroad.
00:15:01.73\00:15:04.73
And he was just
like, "Stay in the church."
00:15:04.77\00:15:07.14
And then... Okay.
00:15:07.17\00:15:08.50
While I'm in
church now, my stepfather,
00:15:08.54\00:15:11.64
great guy, great guy,
but he had his issues.
00:15:11.67\00:15:14.28
His father totally reject him.
00:15:14.31\00:15:16.34
So when he came into my
life at 11, 12 years old,
00:15:16.38\00:15:20.35
he really didn't know how
to deal with this dynamic.
00:15:20.38\00:15:24.02
Here's a son, a boy
that's not his biological son.
00:15:24.05\00:15:28.12
So he tried a couple of things.
00:15:28.16\00:15:31.16
But he tried, he tried.
00:15:31.19\00:15:33.73
We're closer now.
00:15:33.76\00:15:35.10
But it was the
men of the church,
00:15:35.13\00:15:36.93
the elders of the
church who taught me
00:15:36.97\00:15:39.00
how to put a suit together.
00:15:39.03\00:15:41.20
You know, how to treat a woman.
00:15:41.24\00:15:43.54
You know, how to pray.
00:15:43.57\00:15:46.34
My stepfather taught me
00:15:46.37\00:15:47.71
how to worship
every Friday night,
00:15:47.74\00:15:50.91
every Friday night.
00:15:50.95\00:15:52.28
He couldn't sing a lick.
00:15:52.31\00:15:53.65
I mean, he can't
sing to save his life.
00:15:53.68\00:15:56.02
But every Friday, as
soon as the sun goes down,
00:15:56.05\00:15:58.82
he will stop
everything he's doing,
00:15:58.85\00:16:00.19
even if the house is half clean,
00:16:00.22\00:16:01.79
and he'll get his
Bible and his hymnal,
00:16:01.82\00:16:04.23
and sits in the living room,
00:16:04.26\00:16:05.73
and starts singing
to open the Sabbath.
00:16:05.76\00:16:08.56
And if I'm coming out late,
he's like, "Where were you?
00:16:08.60\00:16:11.57
Sabbath, you
know Sabbath sunset."
00:16:11.60\00:16:13.64
That was a biblical
principle at the home.
00:16:13.67\00:16:16.97
It was the
spirituality, the prayer life.
00:16:17.01\00:16:19.47
And so the men of the
church, and my uncles, you know,
00:16:19.51\00:16:22.88
pushing me out
of that dance hall
00:16:22.91\00:16:24.51
scene is really
what saved my life,
00:16:24.55\00:16:27.42
and I have to thank
God for God using men,
00:16:27.45\00:16:32.32
men to drag me out of darkness
00:16:32.35\00:16:35.99
into the marvelous
light of Jesus Christ.
00:16:36.02\00:16:38.49
So that's spiritual, the
spiritual life in the home
00:16:38.53\00:16:40.36
is an important component.
00:16:40.40\00:16:41.90
Oh, yes.
00:16:41.93\00:16:43.26
Fathers being spiritual,
00:16:43.30\00:16:44.63
it's an important component
to saving our young men
00:16:44.67\00:16:48.20
from violence of the street.
00:16:48.24\00:16:50.04
I do believe again
that family worship
00:16:50.07\00:16:53.07
is an important part as far as
we need to cover our children.
00:16:53.11\00:16:58.35
I love the way Ellen
White puts it that, you know,
00:16:58.38\00:17:00.65
I think I shared this already,
00:17:00.68\00:17:02.78
is that the role of
the priest in the home
00:17:02.82\00:17:06.92
is, every morning,
you get on your knees,
00:17:06.96\00:17:10.49
and you pray, and you
intercede for your children,
00:17:10.53\00:17:14.23
for a known as well
as their unknown sins,
00:17:14.26\00:17:16.77
cover them with prayer.
00:17:16.80\00:17:18.13
Because when you
cover them with prayer,
00:17:18.17\00:17:20.20
that's where you find the power,
00:17:20.24\00:17:23.04
that's where they
find the power to overcome
00:17:23.07\00:17:25.44
some of the temptations,
00:17:25.47\00:17:26.81
overcome the
vicissitudes of this life.
00:17:26.84\00:17:29.64
So the role, I think men,
00:17:29.68\00:17:31.25
we are to step up
and be praying me,
00:17:31.28\00:17:34.28
covering our children,
00:17:34.32\00:17:35.68
don't let them go
a day without prayer,
00:17:35.72\00:17:37.25
as well as the mothers.
00:17:37.29\00:17:39.02
So that spiritual life
is an important component
00:17:39.05\00:17:41.62
in saving our young men.
00:17:41.66\00:17:43.02
You know, part of it
too is, as men, we men,
00:17:43.06\00:17:46.03
if that's proper English,
00:17:46.06\00:17:47.40
need to allow
Christ to transform us.
00:17:47.43\00:17:49.86
Yes. Yeah, yes.
00:17:49.90\00:17:51.23
And accept forgiveness.
00:17:51.27\00:17:52.60
You know, we look at
Him as a hero in the Bible,
00:17:52.63\00:17:55.30
one of the greatest
Bible heroes, David,
00:17:55.34\00:17:58.67
but he was a terrible father.
00:17:58.71\00:18:00.88
Because David held on to
that guilt and therefore,
00:18:00.91\00:18:05.01
in stuff where he
could have stopped his sons,
00:18:05.05\00:18:08.45
you know, one
brother raped the sister,
00:18:08.48\00:18:12.25
the other
brother wanted vengeance.
00:18:12.29\00:18:13.62
Well, he could have
stood in there and say,
00:18:13.66\00:18:14.99
"Look, I know it's wrong
but this is how we do it."
00:18:15.02\00:18:18.89
Or rather, what happened?
00:18:18.93\00:18:20.26
A year later, the
brother kills the brother,
00:18:20.30\00:18:22.63
and then the whole mess happens
with all of his children.
00:18:22.66\00:18:27.04
So as fathers, even
though, we all have our past,
00:18:27.07\00:18:31.71
we all have our past.
00:18:31.74\00:18:33.58
But we have to
let God use that past
00:18:33.61\00:18:36.18
as our testimony to our children
00:18:36.21\00:18:38.28
to keep
pointing people to Jesus.
00:18:38.31\00:18:41.02
I came to the grip
that I can't find out,
00:18:41.05\00:18:43.08
because even
those men of the church,
00:18:43.12\00:18:44.55
they were not perfect.
00:18:44.59\00:18:45.92
My uncles are not perfect,
00:18:45.95\00:18:47.29
they're still in
that social life.
00:18:47.32\00:18:49.42
They have some wisdom,
but they're not perfect.
00:18:49.46\00:18:51.36
So I had to learn as
a young man in my 20s,
00:18:51.39\00:18:54.76
my father is in heaven.
00:18:54.80\00:18:58.53
My example of a
father is the guy in heaven.
00:18:58.57\00:19:03.44
And so I patterned my life now
as a father who have children
00:19:03.47\00:19:08.81
after my father in heaven.
00:19:08.84\00:19:12.25
And I struggle with that still.
00:19:12.28\00:19:13.78
Even though I'm a
chaplain, I still struggle
00:19:13.82\00:19:17.19
with the knowledge
of the responsibility,
00:19:17.22\00:19:21.12
the spirituality
behind fatherhood,
00:19:21.16\00:19:23.76
of being the
spiritual leader of my home.
00:19:23.79\00:19:26.03
You know, I've
read Spirit of Prophecy,
00:19:26.06\00:19:27.53
I read, you know,
studied the Bible.
00:19:27.56\00:19:30.37
I've googled
different things, you know,
00:19:30.40\00:19:32.37
whatever you want to
call it, I've done it.
00:19:32.40\00:19:34.44
But what does that look like
00:19:34.47\00:19:37.61
so you don't feel
like you're failing,
00:19:37.64\00:19:40.48
spiritually failing your family?
00:19:40.51\00:19:42.81
As a father, what do I do to...
00:19:42.84\00:19:45.45
Well, to know
that I'm doing okay?
00:19:45.48\00:19:46.88
I think you model...
00:19:46.92\00:19:48.25
You have to model
the life and be real.
00:19:48.28\00:19:51.92
A lot of times,
we're fake, you know,
00:19:51.95\00:19:54.82
try to show our
children one side, and you know,
00:19:54.86\00:19:58.33
try to be something else.
00:19:58.36\00:19:59.83
We need to be
real with our children.
00:19:59.86\00:20:01.60
Yes, we're going
to make mistakes.
00:20:01.63\00:20:03.26
But I remember
my son saying to me,
00:20:03.30\00:20:07.10
"The one thing that I
know is of a certain time
00:20:07.14\00:20:09.84
I find my dad praying.
00:20:09.87\00:20:11.51
I go in office, and
my dad is on his knees,
00:20:11.54\00:20:15.14
and he's there for hours."
00:20:15.18\00:20:17.35
My son, I've watched him now,
00:20:17.38\00:20:20.55
he's actually
modeling the same thing.
00:20:20.58\00:20:23.65
Well, "Justin, where are you?"
00:20:23.69\00:20:26.89
"I'm in worship."
00:20:26.92\00:20:29.09
He's been in
worship for over an hour.
00:20:29.12\00:20:31.16
This is my 19-year-old, now 20.
00:20:31.19\00:20:34.40
And all I did was model.
00:20:34.43\00:20:37.13
And I wasn't doing it for
him, I'm doing this for me,
00:20:37.17\00:20:41.10
this is for my
spiritual development
00:20:41.14\00:20:43.04
because I'm covering my family.
00:20:43.07\00:20:44.77
I'm covering my children.
00:20:44.81\00:20:46.14
But just that model...
00:20:46.17\00:20:47.84
And what we have
done in our home,
00:20:47.88\00:20:51.01
we have allowed them to express
themselves in family worship.
00:20:51.05\00:20:56.52
In other words,
we've taught them, "Listen,
00:20:56.55\00:20:58.62
you have to develop a personal
relationship with Jesus.
00:20:58.65\00:21:01.96
You have to get to
know Jesus yourself."
00:21:01.99\00:21:04.96
So in the
mornings, we're not concerned
00:21:04.99\00:21:07.00
about pulling
the family together.
00:21:07.03\00:21:08.86
What we're concerned about
00:21:08.90\00:21:10.27
is them having their
own personal relationship,
00:21:10.30\00:21:13.00
because we're going
to be out of picture.
00:21:13.03\00:21:14.90
If they don't know
Christ for themselves,
00:21:14.94\00:21:16.81
if they don't
have that relationship
00:21:16.84\00:21:18.24
for themselves,
00:21:18.27\00:21:19.61
then I believe it's
not going to be the best.
00:21:19.64\00:21:22.88
So model it, teach them
to have that relationship,
00:21:22.91\00:21:28.35
and just be
real, got to be real.
00:21:28.38\00:21:31.35
So what I'm
listening to you saying is,
00:21:31.39\00:21:33.15
it's truly not
that difficult per se
00:21:33.19\00:21:36.22
as maybe the church
society might say it
00:21:36.26\00:21:39.89
because, you
know, my five-year-old,
00:21:39.93\00:21:41.96
we get in the
car, automatically,
00:21:42.00\00:21:43.83
"Dad, we can't
leave, we got to pray."
00:21:43.87\00:21:46.50
Or if we do something,
even the one-year-old,
00:21:46.53\00:21:49.24
when we put a
food in front of her,
00:21:49.27\00:21:50.97
she'll put her hands together,
and she'll mumble something
00:21:51.01\00:21:53.68
'cause can't understand it
00:21:53.71\00:21:55.04
but you hear the
amen loud and clear.
00:21:55.08\00:21:57.38
And you know, I think
sometimes, as fathers,
00:21:57.41\00:22:00.48
especially as pastors, or
whatever you want to call,
00:22:00.52\00:22:05.65
as fathers, I think sometimes
we overcomplicate spirituality.
00:22:05.69\00:22:09.09
Yeah.
00:22:09.12\00:22:10.46
We make it like this huge beast
that we cannot understand it,
00:22:10.49\00:22:13.23
like we have to take
like the Old Testament,
00:22:13.26\00:22:17.03
we had to take this
lamb and go slaughter it.
00:22:17.07\00:22:20.14
It seems like...
00:22:20.17\00:22:21.50
I know I've done it.
00:22:21.54\00:22:22.87
It seems like overcomplicating
the spirituality
00:22:22.90\00:22:24.24
when in fact it's modeling.
00:22:24.27\00:22:27.18
Not perfection, but
modeling imperfection
00:22:27.21\00:22:31.05
through the
perfection of Christ.
00:22:31.08\00:22:32.41
Amen.
00:22:32.45\00:22:33.78
Because that's
what Jesus did. Yes.
00:22:33.82\00:22:35.15
Jesus, what Jesus
did is He modeled.
00:22:35.18\00:22:36.79
He modeled, yeah.
00:22:36.82\00:22:38.15
And that's all we need
to do is just to model.
00:22:38.19\00:22:41.29
I'm going to
stress it again, be real.
00:22:41.32\00:22:45.63
Be real, be authentic. Yeah.
00:22:45.66\00:22:47.70
You know, as a pastor,
00:22:47.73\00:22:50.77
you don't realize
that you have two churches
00:22:50.80\00:22:55.07
here in your congregation.
00:22:55.10\00:22:57.34
The one that
sees you on Sabbath,
00:22:57.37\00:22:59.64
and in prayer meeting
or whatever, Bible studies,
00:22:59.67\00:23:02.21
whatever, but there is a
church that sees you every day,
00:23:02.24\00:23:05.98
and that's your family.
00:23:06.01\00:23:07.95
That's my family.
00:23:07.98\00:23:09.35
It blew me away, my son,
00:23:09.38\00:23:11.22
recently my son
at Children's day,
00:23:11.25\00:23:13.36
they ask my son to
preach, one of the oldest.
00:23:13.39\00:23:16.52
And the other one
said, he's going to sing,
00:23:16.56\00:23:18.49
do the appeal song, right?
00:23:18.53\00:23:20.60
So I'm helping him
prepare, helping him prepare,
00:23:20.63\00:23:23.00
I got his notes
together and everything.
00:23:23.03\00:23:25.53
That Sabbath, he's
supposed to preach.
00:23:25.57\00:23:27.17
I go to him, I was
like, "Where's your notes?"
00:23:27.20\00:23:29.00
He said, "Don't worry."
00:23:29.04\00:23:30.37
He said, "I'm not
going to use the notes."
00:23:30.41\00:23:32.07
Where he got that from?
00:23:32.11\00:23:34.28
I don't preach with notes.
00:23:34.31\00:23:36.44
So he want to preach, he
saw me preach without notes,
00:23:36.48\00:23:40.12
and he did a fantastic job.
00:23:40.15\00:23:42.52
And then the younger
brother came and sang
00:23:42.55\00:23:44.52
and did the appeal,
and all these children
00:23:44.55\00:23:46.82
and teenagers came
off for the appeal.
00:23:46.86\00:23:48.92
I mean, you want to see that.
00:23:48.96\00:23:51.06
You don't want to hear
that your son is in a casket
00:23:51.09\00:23:54.30
or going off to
prison or anything.
00:23:54.33\00:23:55.93
You want to hear that your
son has given his life to God,
00:23:55.96\00:23:59.67
even your daughter.
00:23:59.70\00:24:01.04
And then my little
daughter, she's four years old,
00:24:01.07\00:24:02.70
she did the welcome.
00:24:02.74\00:24:04.07
She wasn't shy,
she wasn't timid.
00:24:04.11\00:24:05.57
"Good morning, church."
00:24:05.61\00:24:07.18
And she was just so, you know...
00:24:07.21\00:24:08.58
Because they see
that I'm not afraid.
00:24:08.61\00:24:10.48
So people are like,
00:24:10.51\00:24:11.85
"Why is your
children don't afraid
00:24:11.88\00:24:13.21
to go up to the pulpit.
00:24:13.25\00:24:14.58
They're not afraid to pray,
00:24:14.62\00:24:15.95
they're not afraid
to do these things."
00:24:15.98\00:24:17.32
Because they see my wife
00:24:17.35\00:24:20.32
and myself modeled these things.
00:24:20.36\00:24:22.52
So they follow our examples.
00:24:22.56\00:24:24.49
Even one morning, my son was...
00:24:24.53\00:24:26.59
The night
before, my son was like,
00:24:26.63\00:24:28.53
"How come we don't
have family worship
00:24:28.56\00:24:31.03
in the mornings no more?
00:24:31.07\00:24:32.40
We have worship at night,
00:24:32.43\00:24:33.77
but we used to
have family worship
00:24:33.80\00:24:35.14
in the mornings."
00:24:35.17\00:24:36.54
And my wife and I looked
at each other and like, "Wow!"
00:24:36.57\00:24:39.44
He's eight years old,
and he wants to have worship.
00:24:39.47\00:24:43.71
You know, you brought up a
good point is the fact that,
00:24:43.75\00:24:46.41
in order to keep and save
our young men from violence
00:24:46.45\00:24:49.72
including our
church, we have to show them
00:24:49.75\00:24:52.72
the imperfect relationship
00:24:52.75\00:24:55.02
through the perfect
relationship with Christ,
00:24:55.06\00:24:57.53
meaning that you know,
00:24:57.56\00:24:58.89
we're not going
to be perfect fathers
00:24:58.93\00:25:01.03
but we got to show them
that there's a perfect God
00:25:01.06\00:25:03.43
that can save
them from themselves.
00:25:03.47\00:25:05.77
And I don't know,
that's just something
00:25:05.80\00:25:07.14
that I picked up
from what you were saying.
00:25:07.17\00:25:08.50
What do you think, Gordon?
00:25:08.54\00:25:09.87
I think it's true showing them
00:25:09.90\00:25:12.71
how imperfect we are
being able to let them have...
00:25:12.74\00:25:17.91
talk to them about different
stories about your life
00:25:17.95\00:25:20.52
day-by-day, you know,
they don't think their dad is,
00:25:20.55\00:25:23.82
you know, so
perfect, you know, whatever.
00:25:23.85\00:25:26.09
For me, my son, you know,
00:25:26.12\00:25:28.36
he sees and he
knows the relationship
00:25:28.39\00:25:31.26
that his father have with God.
00:25:31.29\00:25:33.29
He sees my prayer time,
00:25:33.33\00:25:34.76
he knows that I'm there praying.
00:25:34.80\00:25:36.36
And now, in his devotional life,
00:25:36.40\00:25:39.43
he's actually
picking up the same things.
00:25:39.47\00:25:41.37
He spends hours
in devotional prayer.
00:25:41.40\00:25:44.84
And so the
modeling is important,
00:25:44.87\00:25:46.98
just being there and being real,
00:25:47.01\00:25:49.21
you know, authentic.
00:25:49.24\00:25:50.58
So you're not
showing one face at church
00:25:50.61\00:25:52.51
and your one face at home.
00:25:52.55\00:25:54.12
Yeah, just be
real for your children.
00:25:54.15\00:25:55.88
I think it's the best
in it, any parent can do.
00:25:55.92\00:25:57.89
Yeah.
00:25:57.92\00:25:59.25
And what are you
passionate about?
00:25:59.29\00:26:00.82
What are you passionate about?
00:26:00.86\00:26:02.19
If you're passionate about God,
00:26:02.22\00:26:04.16
it's a higher
chance for your children
00:26:04.19\00:26:05.86
to be passionate about God too.
00:26:05.89\00:26:07.56
If you're
passionate about money,
00:26:07.60\00:26:08.93
whether you are working an
honest job and working hard,
00:26:08.96\00:26:11.43
and they see you working hard,
then they're going to think
00:26:11.47\00:26:13.64
about the easier way
which can lead to violence.
00:26:13.67\00:26:15.84
So what are you
passionate about?
00:26:15.87\00:26:17.41
And then, you have
to know your children
00:26:17.44\00:26:19.34
'cause my daughter is
totally different from my son.
00:26:19.37\00:26:22.08
And she needs a
little more work,
00:26:22.11\00:26:25.01
little more encouragement.
00:26:25.05\00:26:26.45
So we have to encourage her,
we have to be there for her.
00:26:26.48\00:26:29.45
And my son, you know,
he's pretty much there,
00:26:29.48\00:26:33.82
but she needs encouragement.
00:26:33.86\00:26:35.42
Different
styles, different methods
00:26:35.46\00:26:37.63
for the different children.
00:26:37.66\00:26:38.99
It's not one size fit all,
00:26:39.03\00:26:41.30
but I think modeling to her,
00:26:41.33\00:26:44.77
she more will grab the mother,
her mom side of the modeling,
00:26:44.80\00:26:48.77
but that Christian
modeling is very important.
00:26:48.80\00:26:51.24
It goes a long way.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:26:51.27\00:26:52.61
I appreciate that 'cause
just can keep going on, man.
00:26:52.64\00:26:55.44
We have a lot to talk about
00:26:55.48\00:26:57.35
and I just appreciate
everything you shared.
00:26:57.38\00:26:59.91
And for the
viewing audience, again,
00:26:59.95\00:27:03.49
fatherhood is not
meant to be perfect.
00:27:03.52\00:27:06.05
You know, the
reason we do this program,
00:27:06.09\00:27:09.12
the reason we sit
down and discuss so openly
00:27:09.16\00:27:11.16
is because we want to
show you that as ministers,
00:27:11.19\00:27:13.80
we're just as
messed up as you are,
00:27:13.83\00:27:16.87
we're just as imperfect.
00:27:16.90\00:27:19.00
You know, we may be on camera,
00:27:19.03\00:27:23.00
but we can't hide who we are.
00:27:23.04\00:27:25.97
At the same time, we can't
hide who God has made us to be.
00:27:26.01\00:27:28.91
Amen.
00:27:28.94\00:27:30.28
We're all broken, we're all...
00:27:30.31\00:27:32.18
You know, we can all fell
under category of bad fathers.
00:27:32.21\00:27:35.75
But God knows
we're good fathers,
00:27:35.78\00:27:38.02
we're just imperfect,
00:27:38.05\00:27:39.39
we need a little
tweaking, a little help.
00:27:39.42\00:27:41.56
And in order to keep
our young men, young ladies,
00:27:41.59\00:27:44.33
our kids from violence,
00:27:44.36\00:27:46.83
we have to do the very best
we can to hang on to Christ.
00:27:46.86\00:27:52.50
It may seem redundant at times,
00:27:52.53\00:27:53.97
it may seem weird
but you know what?
00:27:54.00\00:27:56.00
It saves lives
because Christ saves lives.
00:27:56.04\00:27:59.57
Do yourself a favor.
00:27:59.61\00:28:00.94
Be a father.
Thank you for watching.
00:28:00.98\00:28:02.51