A good father
takes time to play.
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He has strong integrity.
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He is someone that
is truly dedicated.
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He is not afraid
to show his love.
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He is a caring provider.
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And he's a kind
spiritual leader.
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These are just a few ways
to describe a father's heart.
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Hi, Welcome to A Father's Heart.
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I'm your host Xavier.
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And today, we're going to
be discussing broken fathers.
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You know, fathers go
through many different things
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such as divorce,
maybe they lose a spouse,
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and what are we doing to
help these fathers to be,
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to restore them, you know,
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to have, be able to be
complete for their children.
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And with me to
discuss that today
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are my friends Gordon and Paul.
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How are you, guys?
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It's going good. Going good.
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Blessed brother.
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So broken fathers,
you know going through
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the process of grief
if you lose a spouse.
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Even grief when
you get divorced,
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you know, what are
we doing to restore
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these gentlemen to be
fathers, whole fathers again?
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You know, I haven't
personally experienced firsthand
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the brokenness as to
I had losing a spouse
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or you know
anything of that nature.
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Praise God. Praise the Lord.
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What I've experienced is
loss of my father-in-law,
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my wife's dad.
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And that in itself is traumatic
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because I've
been a support to her
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trying to even keep
my own self together,
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my own emotions together.
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And I think the best
thing that we can do,
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what I do is just
being able to sit in the room
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with a father and
really just listen to them.
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Give them that opportunity
to talk about their grief,
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talk about their pain,
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talk about what
they're struggling with,
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and not trying to fix them.
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You know, we like to fix,
but I think this is one thing.
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Grief is
something that we can't fix,
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something that we need to
be able to, just be in there.
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I call it ministry
of presence, you know,
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I just want to be there
for the person to help them
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along the journey.
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That's the one I
can offer, you know,
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in this conversation for now.
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Absolutely. Absolutely.
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Being there would be paramount.
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I don't think
there's any other work
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or supporting
effort that we can give
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that would be more
helpful than our presence.
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It's good to
let individuals know
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whether male or female,
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we're talking
here about fathers,
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but I'm going to
be inclusive as well.
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When it comes to
grief, hurt and recovery,
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I think the hardest thing
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for an
individual is the isolation.
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It's this sense of, this
is what I'm going through
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and no one else understands.
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This is what I'm going through
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and no one else
has experienced this
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or no one has
experienced it the way I have.
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They're right, you know,
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the average person
that would say to me,
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you don't know what I'm feeling.
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No, I don't.
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So it's important to point
them to if that is the void,
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this isolation, this loneliness,
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it's important that
we point them to Christ.
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And it is for most of us.
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What a lot of people
don't, are not aware of is that
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Christ has suffered as them,
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He has suffered as us.
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We say at times,
and it's almost become
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cliché wrapped in reference.
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We say, "Well, you
know, Jesus died for me."
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And it's
important to understand that
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Jesus did not just
die for us, He died as us.
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We go to Isaiah 53.
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And we take some time of study
and meditation in Isaiah 53,
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and you go through
the sufferings of Christ.
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Look also through the Psalms
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and see what it says
about the sufferings of Christ.
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And we contrast
that to His experience
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in the Transfiguration
in the Garden of Gethsemane
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that He had to bear
the sin of the world.
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So, it may seem
trivial when we say, yes,
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He faced every temptation.
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He may not have faced
your literal exact experience,
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but He faced the same
magnitude of that experience
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and He had to
carry that to the cross,
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all of your brokenness,
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all of my
brokenness, it was upon Him.
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That's what Isaiah 53 says.
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So all of that hurt and
pain, from whatever it was,
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if it was the result of a rape,
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if it was the result of
relative committing suicide,
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if it was the
result of a divorce,
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if it was the result
of a loss of a loved one,
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He had to carry it, He felt it.
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He had to take it to the cross.
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And that's why I
guess my favorite text is,
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I will look to the hills,
from whence cometh my help,
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my help comes from the Lord
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which make heaven and earth.
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So anything that we feel,
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we go through any brokenness
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is that's where we have to look,
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we have to look for Christ.
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Because He is the one
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that is going to
take this the pain,
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He's going to
take all of this from
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and we're not...
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I'm not going to say that
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we're not going to feel the pain
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because you're
going to feel the pain.
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You're going to feel.
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I remember looking at my,
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looking at one
of my family members
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go through divorce,
young man, two young children,
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and it ripped him apart.
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And as a close
family member, as an uncle,
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I'm there just
standing in the gap with him.
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Not only did he lost everything,
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and it really tested
his relationship with God,
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to the point where, you
know, he was just going,
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he would go through the
motions of what it feels,
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what is it means to go to church
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and be a Christian.
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But I don't
believe Christ was in him
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because that brokenness
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caused his
relationship to be broken.
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And so it just, it
was a spiraling effect.
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So I've seen the pain
that I've seen the heartache,
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as I know, it's not easy.
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So ministry just been there
and I was just there for him.
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We are listening,
listen in the air,
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just to hear what he has to say.
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And I think that's
critical, you know,
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they do appreciate
what you're saying.
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But if somebody has
gone through divorce,
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I can tell you firsthand that
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I wouldn't want to
know anything about Jesus.
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Seriously.
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You know, here I am,
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first year seminary
going through a divorce.
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You know, and I'm thinking
back to my worldly days,
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and I had gone through a divorce
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at a very young age.
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So here I am
following a perfect being,
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His name is Jesus.
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And what does He give me?
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Another ripped, you
know, it's the ripping of...
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That's why it's so critical
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to let God marry
to the right person.
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I'm not saying
those people are bad,
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not saying my ex-wife is bad.
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She's a good person.
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But God had other plans.
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And when the two
fleshes rip, it hurts.
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I can tell you
firsthand right now.
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I sat in the
basement of the house
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that I was renting and I drank.
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Mercy.
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And this is somebody who
has been a future pastor,
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being trained in
every kind of theology.
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And I drank.
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I went, I didn't want
to, but that's the only way
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I knew how to cure the pain.
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I got through divorce care.
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When I went, I
still hurt so bad.
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And I have a child, you know,
and all these mixed emotions,
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you know, this is
because on one hand,
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I go to this
church, the church say,
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"Oh, that's not
supposed to happen.
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God hates divorce."
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Okay, He does but it happens.
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What are you going to
do about it now to help me?
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I'm hurting.
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I want to kill
myself. I'm suicidal.
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But wait, you're self-professed
somebody that's being a pastor.
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Doesn't mean I'm not human.
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Doesn't mean I'm
not going to suffer.
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So here I am going through that.
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And you know what helped?
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Actually God 3 o'clock
in the morning woke me up.
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Mind you, I had drank everything
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I could imagine.
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So I wouldn't
wake up, woke me up.
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Hallelujah.
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And the Bible just
became clear that day.
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And it wasn't
anything theological.
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It was something that
was hard hitting for me
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to know that restoration
was just around the corner.
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You know what helped? Community.
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Community.
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You know how many of
my colleagues in seminary
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came to my house to pray,
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to circle me with
prayer and support.
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A ministerial
presence is so key, so vital,
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you know, and that hurts.
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You know, it hurted to the point
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where I refused to love again.
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I refused.
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Now mind you, you
know, God is love.
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I refused to want to
experience love again.
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I'll experience God's love,
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but I don't want to
experience relationship love,
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because all the
church is going to tell me,
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God hates divorce.
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We're going to put
you in divorce care.
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No! What are you
doing to help me?
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Where's Simon, you know,
Simon, where Simon like...
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You know, where's Jesus' Simon,
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where he helped carry, you know,
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even though he was
forced to carry that cross,
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who somebody wants to
carry the cross with Him,
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for Him, you know.
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And when I went to,
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when I started
having feelings again
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for this young
lady, I told her, I said,
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"My heart is guarded.
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I have snipers on the roof.
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And I have pit bulls at the gate
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and I have this barb
wire fence with electricity.
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Mercy. That nobody's getting in.
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And you know what God
did? He just laughed at me.
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He said, "Okay."
00:10:06.67\00:10:08.44
And now I've been
married for quite some time now
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to a wonderful woman,
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but I would not be able
to see that at the time.
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I was unresponsive
and I was not willing
00:10:15.74\00:10:18.71
for anybody to talk to
me about any type of Jesus,
00:10:18.75\00:10:22.45
because I'm hurting and while,
00:10:22.48\00:10:24.59
you know, it's good
to talk about Jesus.
00:10:24.62\00:10:29.12
I also see Jesus as somebody
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who was very human, a
humanistic psychologist.
00:10:30.93\00:10:36.46
The woman at the well,
the woman caught in adultery,
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every single instance
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in which society
went to condemn people.
00:10:41.34\00:10:44.74
He didn't say stop.
00:10:44.77\00:10:46.51
He just says, He's
with them in the trenches.
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When they're hurting,
He's hurting, when He, when...
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That's what I saw
about Jesus is the fact that
00:10:53.58\00:10:56.38
He wasn't saying, I
hate divorce so stop it.
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Well, we should never
get divorced realistically,
00:10:59.62\00:11:02.62
because that's
not the ideal thing.
00:11:02.66\00:11:04.53
It happens and it's happening
so much more in our churches.
00:11:04.56\00:11:08.53
So much, so much.
00:11:08.56\00:11:11.27
Jesus says, you know what?
00:11:11.30\00:11:13.30
I understand.
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I see it,
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because of the
hardness of your hearts.
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This is why
it's happening. Yeah.
00:11:17.54\00:11:19.31
So here's what
we're going to do.
00:11:19.34\00:11:21.54
And that's one thing that
00:11:21.58\00:11:22.91
I want to understand as fathers,
00:11:22.94\00:11:26.11
how do we, when
somebody's grieving,
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especially a father,
00:11:28.55\00:11:29.88
a man is supposed
to be big and strong.
00:11:29.92\00:11:31.92
How do we teach our kids
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to see beyond
the exterior persona
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and see the
brokenness inside to restore?
00:11:36.86\00:11:40.93
I think we just, we
have to be real to them.
00:11:40.96\00:11:43.50
Well, a lot of
times we don't sit down
00:11:43.53\00:11:45.60
and talk to our
kids about our pain.
00:11:45.63\00:11:48.20
We don't talk to them about
00:11:48.24\00:11:49.70
what we're feeling
because we're trying to be this
00:11:49.74\00:11:52.37
whatever macho is,
don't cry, kind of, person.
00:11:52.41\00:11:57.98
But if we will talk to them
00:11:58.01\00:11:59.75
about our pain and our feelings,
00:11:59.78\00:12:02.62
and I want to,
something you said
00:12:02.65\00:12:05.19
that really hit me.
00:12:05.22\00:12:07.76
God could have stepped
in and stopped your hurt,
00:12:07.79\00:12:12.49
but He allowed you
to go through the hurt.
00:12:12.53\00:12:17.37
And then when it was right,
00:12:17.40\00:12:19.70
He came, He
stepped in and changed.
00:12:19.73\00:12:21.87
He allowed you to
go through alcohol,
00:12:21.90\00:12:24.01
all that stuff that
you were going through,
00:12:24.04\00:12:25.57
He allowed you to go through.
00:12:25.61\00:12:26.94
Now, that's an
awesome God. Indeed.
00:12:26.98\00:12:30.41
And so, when we meet
people with brokenness,
00:12:30.45\00:12:32.58
we all want to get into,
okay, you need to do this,
00:12:32.61\00:12:35.25
so you need to do that.
00:12:35.28\00:12:36.69
No, you gonna let
them go through it
00:12:36.72\00:12:39.55
because when they go through it,
00:12:39.59\00:12:40.92
that's when they know that
God could take them through it.
00:12:40.96\00:12:43.63
He's going to
bring them out of it.
00:12:43.66\00:12:45.33
And, but we need to back,
00:12:45.36\00:12:47.36
we need to be just transparent
00:12:47.40\00:12:49.73
with our family,
with our children.
00:12:49.76\00:12:51.83
They're going to hurt,
they're going to feel pain.
00:12:51.87\00:12:53.80
It's okay.
00:12:53.84\00:12:55.17
I think that's very important.
00:12:55.20\00:12:59.24
Quite often our children
00:12:59.27\00:13:01.44
don't get to see our
potential for vulnerability.
00:13:01.48\00:13:05.51
Right.
00:13:05.55\00:13:06.92
We're afraid to express
00:13:06.95\00:13:09.55
or in any way allow our children
00:13:09.58\00:13:11.15
to know that
00:13:11.19\00:13:13.32
we have been vulnerable at times
00:13:13.36\00:13:14.99
in our own lives.
00:13:15.02\00:13:17.63
I pray, I pray that
someone watching this program
00:13:17.66\00:13:20.66
here can see three pastors
00:13:20.70\00:13:25.33
as imperfect individuals
00:13:25.37\00:13:27.00
who have
struggled in their own life
00:13:27.04\00:13:29.50
in various areas,
00:13:29.54\00:13:30.87
and yet God has chosen
to work in and through us.
00:13:30.91\00:13:34.81
And it is such
evidence of the love of our God,
00:13:34.84\00:13:38.78
you know, three degrees
00:13:38.81\00:13:42.28
and X amount of years
of professional experience
00:13:42.32\00:13:44.72
in this then and the
other and I'm still broken,
00:13:44.75\00:13:47.92
I'm still not
perfect, I still hurt.
00:13:47.96\00:13:50.09
I still have situations
where I have to cry out
00:13:50.13\00:13:55.90
and after in retrospect,
00:13:55.93\00:13:58.33
I look back at one
experience or the other.
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.84
Sometimes I'm embarrassed.
00:14:00.87\00:14:02.70
You know, I look
at myself and say,
00:14:02.74\00:14:04.74
gosh, you know, what
happened to you, man,
00:14:04.77\00:14:07.31
you know, but we all
have those experiences
00:14:07.34\00:14:10.51
and we have to
let our children know,
00:14:10.55\00:14:12.65
especially our
young men know that
00:14:12.68\00:14:15.48
it is okay to be
fragile at times.
00:14:15.52\00:14:18.39
It's okay to be hurt,
00:14:18.42\00:14:20.86
to be hurt is human, it's right.
00:14:20.89\00:14:23.53
To be hurt only proves
that that you are human,
00:14:23.56\00:14:28.16
but nothing
stronger than that presence.
00:14:28.20\00:14:31.43
There is such a statement
as when prayer is not enough.
00:14:31.47\00:14:36.27
When prayer is not enough,
00:14:36.30\00:14:37.64
so there's so many things
00:14:37.67\00:14:39.01
that we tend to
attempt to pray away.
00:14:39.04\00:14:42.48
And, you know, we
approach the person
00:14:42.51\00:14:45.28
and we lay hands on them
00:14:45.31\00:14:47.05
and we pray and we say,
00:14:47.08\00:14:48.42
behold, be healed,
which is necessary.
00:14:48.45\00:14:51.75
Even James
instructs us to do that.
00:14:51.79\00:14:54.09
But then we still
have, we need to remain.
00:14:54.12\00:14:57.09
We need to remain
and we need to be present
00:14:57.13\00:14:59.69
and we need to let
that person know listen,
00:14:59.73\00:15:02.56
I'm here for you,
I'm not to be Eliphaz
00:15:02.60\00:15:06.13
or can't remember
00:15:06.17\00:15:07.50
the other two
were Job's friends,
00:15:07.54\00:15:10.07
you know, we'll
have to be like that.
00:15:10.11\00:15:12.14
But you don't have to be there
to bombard them with advice
00:15:12.17\00:15:15.58
and psychology and
all this kind of stuff.
00:15:15.61\00:15:18.15
Just being a
brother and being there.
00:15:18.18\00:15:21.05
I remember that
experience, the loss of a son.
00:15:21.08\00:15:26.76
And it was a traumatic loss.
00:15:26.79\00:15:30.69
Up to now, that member
can't pull themselves together.
00:15:30.73\00:15:35.53
And they believe in prayer,
they believe in that power,
00:15:35.56\00:15:38.67
but for some reason,
00:15:38.70\00:15:40.24
they can't pull
themselves out of it.
00:15:40.27\00:15:44.01
They have to go through it.
00:15:44.04\00:15:45.47
And so we can't
just try to fix things.
00:15:45.51\00:15:50.55
The fact of the matter
that all of us are broken.
00:15:50.58\00:15:54.85
And so, in my brokenness,
and in your brokenness,
00:15:54.88\00:15:57.99
and in your brokenness,
00:15:58.02\00:15:59.52
we all are going
through at a different level,
00:15:59.55\00:16:02.22
at a different experiences,
00:16:02.26\00:16:05.09
but the one thing
00:16:05.13\00:16:06.46
I want to recommend and suggest,
00:16:06.49\00:16:08.70
as men, fathers
without children,
00:16:08.73\00:16:11.57
being able to
come together like this
00:16:11.60\00:16:14.00
and talk about your brokenness,
00:16:14.04\00:16:16.10
talk about what
you're going through,
00:16:16.14\00:16:17.47
talk about what
your experiences.
00:16:17.51\00:16:19.44
In that way we
can learn to embrace
00:16:19.47\00:16:22.64
and connect with each other
00:16:22.68\00:16:24.81
and gain
strength from each other.
00:16:24.85\00:16:27.15
The problem with us
that we live in isolation.
00:16:27.18\00:16:31.22
We take all of our burdens
00:16:31.25\00:16:33.59
and all of our
brokenness and we tell,
00:16:33.62\00:16:35.69
I'm going to hold on to this
00:16:35.72\00:16:37.06
as some kind of a pet
child or whatever, pet animal,
00:16:37.09\00:16:41.86
but we need to be
able to sit in community
00:16:41.90\00:16:43.77
and talk about it
00:16:43.80\00:16:45.13
and teach our young
men to do the same thing
00:16:45.17\00:16:47.44
because they will
perpetuate the same things
00:16:47.47\00:16:50.07
that we are dealing with.
00:16:50.11\00:16:52.14
They're going to just
keep on this continued cycle.
00:16:52.17\00:16:55.28
And I believe in
going back to the basics.
00:16:55.31\00:16:57.65
You know for me,
00:16:57.68\00:16:59.18
when I reread
again the story of Jesus.
00:16:59.21\00:17:04.59
I was blown away.
00:17:04.62\00:17:06.62
Because I'm like,
here's the Son of God,
00:17:06.65\00:17:09.82
coming from a blended family.
00:17:09.86\00:17:12.56
You know, to me, I
had to reread it again.
00:17:12.59\00:17:15.83
Because, you
know, now I'm married,
00:17:15.86\00:17:18.77
and we're a blended family.
00:17:18.80\00:17:20.94
And that's supposed to
be statistically wrong,
00:17:20.97\00:17:24.31
like you're supposed to fail.
00:17:24.34\00:17:26.61
We even had a
particular people of high esteem
00:17:26.64\00:17:31.21
that told me to
my face, "Xavier,
00:17:31.25\00:17:34.22
we're going to pray
that your marriage fails."
00:17:34.25\00:17:35.88
Mercy.
00:17:35.92\00:17:38.05
I had to learn what,
00:17:38.09\00:17:39.82
turn the other
cheek to men at that point
00:17:39.85\00:17:42.19
because I was livid.
00:17:42.22\00:17:43.79
Said, "Okay, okay."
00:17:43.83\00:17:46.36
But we're seeing
Jesus coming into a world.
00:17:46.39\00:17:50.47
That's a man that's broken.
00:17:50.50\00:17:52.03
Being in a young
girl, being born,
00:17:52.07\00:17:56.74
being birthed from
a young girl and a man
00:17:56.77\00:17:59.24
who now is about to get
married to this girl says,
00:17:59.27\00:18:01.88
wait a minute, you're pregnant.
00:18:01.91\00:18:05.11
How does this happen?
00:18:05.15\00:18:06.51
You know that, and
obviously the angels reveal
00:18:06.55\00:18:09.38
and God reveals Himself
00:18:09.42\00:18:10.75
and told them what the plan was.
00:18:10.79\00:18:13.52
But the same
circumstance happens today.
00:18:13.56\00:18:17.46
You know,
restoration for me came
00:18:17.49\00:18:19.03
when I understood
that here's Joseph,
00:18:19.06\00:18:22.30
he doesn't have to
pay any child support.
00:18:22.33\00:18:25.53
Okay, fine, great, but
he has the responsibility
00:18:25.57\00:18:28.60
of raising a son that's not his
00:18:28.64\00:18:31.07
and a son that
is the Son of God.
00:18:31.11\00:18:34.38
You know, and
what I drew from that
00:18:34.41\00:18:36.31
is the fact that our churches,
00:18:36.34\00:18:38.51
we need to do more
beyond divorce care,
00:18:38.55\00:18:42.52
really, really come
in and counsel these men
00:18:42.55\00:18:47.02
who are now thinking potentially
00:18:47.06\00:18:49.12
to get remarried
00:18:49.16\00:18:50.49
and educate them
through God's Word,
00:18:50.53\00:18:53.19
not through our
personal feelings
00:18:53.23\00:18:54.56
and emotions,
00:18:54.60\00:18:55.93
even though we have experiences
00:18:55.96\00:18:57.30
but through God's Word
00:18:57.33\00:18:58.67
as to what this
restoration looks like
00:18:58.70\00:19:00.14
and what it's going to look like
00:19:00.17\00:19:01.50
down the road.
00:19:01.54\00:19:02.87
I don't know, what do you think?
00:19:02.90\00:19:04.24
I wanted to speak
to the element of faith
00:19:04.27\00:19:08.61
and faith's role in recovery,
00:19:08.64\00:19:12.11
faith's role in loss.
00:19:12.15\00:19:15.48
You talked about redeeming.
00:19:15.52\00:19:17.82
We have a culture where I think
00:19:17.85\00:19:20.29
we inappropriately address
00:19:20.32\00:19:25.69
a measure of
faith or lack thereof,
00:19:25.73\00:19:28.26
you know, there are times
00:19:28.30\00:19:29.63
when we're
praising people for success
00:19:29.66\00:19:32.63
that they have had
absolutely nothing to do with.
00:19:32.67\00:19:34.80
Let's say, let me be playing
00:19:34.84\00:19:36.60
even within our culture of
pastoral work and the call.
00:19:36.64\00:19:40.38
I hear people wax
eloquent all the time
00:19:40.41\00:19:42.54
and about all
this that and that,
00:19:42.58\00:19:44.11
that the other
and it wasn't because
00:19:44.15\00:19:45.68
they did it in the
last minute, you know,
00:19:45.71\00:19:48.38
this happened and this
happened because we don't know.
00:19:48.42\00:19:51.85
You know, we really don't know.
00:19:51.89\00:19:53.76
But someone who is hurting
00:19:53.79\00:19:58.79
they're not hurting
because they lack faith.
00:19:58.83\00:20:02.20
Someone who has
been through a loss
00:20:02.23\00:20:05.40
and is unable to
cope with the loss,
00:20:05.43\00:20:08.40
they're not necessarily hurting
00:20:08.44\00:20:11.54
or unable to cope
because they lack faith.
00:20:11.57\00:20:16.08
2001 which is about my
second year in seminary,
00:20:16.11\00:20:20.98
packed up truck, left Florida,
00:20:21.02\00:20:22.98
sold home, you know,
and all this kind of stuff.
00:20:23.02\00:20:25.52
Get here and I'm making
00:20:25.55\00:20:26.92
this commitment
towards ministry.
00:20:26.96\00:20:29.96
My wife becomes
pregnant with our second child.
00:20:29.99\00:20:34.36
She has a high-risk
pregnancy, wife is hospitalized.
00:20:34.40\00:20:38.37
We try our best
00:20:38.40\00:20:39.73
with all the
different medical, you know,
00:20:39.77\00:20:41.40
practice and all
of that to get her
00:20:41.44\00:20:42.94
to where she needs
to be the gestation
00:20:42.97\00:20:45.31
until it's time that it's okay,
00:20:45.34\00:20:47.08
we have to deliver the child now
00:20:47.11\00:20:49.48
and that was just I
think little past six months
00:20:49.51\00:20:52.45
and so daughter was born.
00:20:52.48\00:20:54.95
Daughter was fine
in physical appearance.
00:20:54.98\00:20:58.35
Arms, legs, 10 fingers, 10
toes, eyes and all of that.
00:20:58.39\00:21:01.82
Fully functional as a child,
00:21:01.86\00:21:04.09
but she was yet birth with lungs
00:21:04.13\00:21:06.80
that were not fully developed.
00:21:06.83\00:21:09.13
And so after they delivered
my daughter, our daughter,
00:21:09.16\00:21:13.13
and they placed my daughter
in my arms and wrapped her.
00:21:13.17\00:21:17.51
I knew she wasn't going to live,
00:21:17.54\00:21:19.04
you know, they told me that.
00:21:19.07\00:21:20.91
And I told the
nurse no, when she,
00:21:20.94\00:21:23.04
when the nurse came to
me and said, here's a child,
00:21:23.08\00:21:26.18
you know, we need you to
spend some time with her.
00:21:26.21\00:21:28.35
Not, aside, you
know, no, that's okay.
00:21:28.38\00:21:32.45
And the nurse encouraged me
and encouraged me until I did
00:21:32.49\00:21:35.32
and I held my
daughter for close to an hour.
00:21:35.36\00:21:37.66
Nurse told me, put your
thumb right here by her heart.
00:21:37.69\00:21:41.23
And when you stop feeling that,
you call us and let us know,
00:21:41.26\00:21:46.27
and just put me in a corner
by myself in a rocking chair.
00:21:46.30\00:21:49.20
Let me tell you,
00:21:49.24\00:21:50.57
when I felt my daughter's
heart finally stopped beating,
00:21:50.61\00:21:53.71
I started to pray
00:21:53.74\00:21:55.44
and ask God to
resurrect my child.
00:21:55.48\00:21:59.38
And let me tell you,
00:21:59.41\00:22:00.75
it wasn't for lack of
faith in what God can do.
00:22:00.78\00:22:03.92
I believed 100% that God
00:22:03.95\00:22:07.39
would restore my
child's heartbeat,
00:22:07.42\00:22:09.52
place breath back in her
lungs and that she would live.
00:22:09.56\00:22:12.39
She didn't.
00:22:12.43\00:22:13.76
I ended up burying that child.
00:22:13.80\00:22:16.03
But we need to understand
as I said, stop labeling people
00:22:16.06\00:22:21.64
and attaching
measures of efforts
00:22:21.67\00:22:24.07
and faith and belief
and all, but God is God.
00:22:24.11\00:22:27.44
And we need to
accept what God allows.
00:22:27.48\00:22:30.51
And we need to
allow God to be God.
00:22:30.55\00:22:32.98
There will be a day
00:22:33.01\00:22:34.35
when we will
understand the unanswered,
00:22:34.38\00:22:36.79
why the inexplicable,
how the ambiguous so what,
00:22:36.82\00:22:40.89
and all this stuff,
00:22:40.92\00:22:42.26
all of this stuff will
be remedied in eternity.
00:22:42.29\00:22:44.66
You know, so I want to
speak specifically to the person
00:22:44.69\00:22:47.86
that's going
through that kind of loss,
00:22:47.90\00:22:50.47
that kind of
struggle, that kind of hurt,
00:22:50.50\00:22:53.27
wherein it's the lack of closure
00:22:53.30\00:22:56.10
that's persecuting you.
00:22:56.14\00:22:57.74
It's okay. It's okay.
00:22:57.77\00:23:00.18
Let it go. Let God be God.
00:23:00.21\00:23:03.35
And let us all look
forward to that day.
00:23:03.38\00:23:05.68
I'm looking forward to it.
00:23:05.71\00:23:07.52
You're looking for it,
I know you are, you know,
00:23:07.55\00:23:10.39
where everything
will be made right,
00:23:10.42\00:23:13.36
and we'll
understand why God allowed
00:23:13.39\00:23:17.06
whatever it is that
He allowed to happen.
00:23:17.09\00:23:19.46
There are many times
I'm called by a member
00:23:19.49\00:23:21.56
for counsel in one area or
the other, relative to loss.
00:23:21.60\00:23:26.27
I'm speechless.
00:23:26.30\00:23:28.94
What do I say to the mother
00:23:28.97\00:23:30.31
who has just lost
her 16-year old child
00:23:30.34\00:23:33.24
before he's even
really experienced,
00:23:33.27\00:23:36.08
you know, life in this world?
00:23:36.11\00:23:38.58
I had one, not so very long ago,
00:23:38.61\00:23:42.28
was lost by auto accident,
00:23:42.32\00:23:44.65
simple auto accident.
00:23:44.69\00:23:46.22
You know, it could
be any of our children.
00:23:46.25\00:23:48.09
You know, we lose children,
00:23:48.12\00:23:50.13
we lose
spouses, we lose parents,
00:23:50.16\00:23:52.69
but the church and
especially us as men,
00:23:52.73\00:23:56.20
we need to be real. Yes.
00:23:56.23\00:23:58.27
We need to be real.
00:23:58.30\00:23:59.63
Don't hide behind doctrines
and cultures of doctrines
00:23:59.67\00:24:04.41
and who's got faith
and who doesn't have faith.
00:24:04.44\00:24:08.38
Didn't Jesus Himself say while
00:24:08.41\00:24:10.71
He was there in the
garden bearing your sin and mine
00:24:10.75\00:24:13.21
and it was crushing Him,
"Father, if it be possible."
00:24:13.25\00:24:17.25
Why did He ask that?
00:24:17.29\00:24:19.32
Why did He ask
God for an option?
00:24:19.35\00:24:21.86
Ah, mercy.
00:24:21.89\00:24:23.22
Because He didn't
want to deal with the pain.
00:24:23.26\00:24:24.69
The pain was...
It was excruciating.
00:24:24.73\00:24:27.16
It spilled blood.
00:24:27.20\00:24:28.53
So if our Savior
00:24:28.56\00:24:31.60
can express that
level of vulnerability,
00:24:31.63\00:24:34.77
that level of humaneness,
what about you, what about me?
00:24:34.80\00:24:39.67
You know, it's
like looking at a mother
00:24:39.71\00:24:42.91
that's sitting on
the porch with her son.
00:24:42.94\00:24:46.85
They're just sitting
there having a good time.
00:24:46.88\00:24:48.88
Someone drives by,
bang, shots ring out.
00:24:48.92\00:24:52.29
She escaped, but her
son lying there, dead.
00:24:52.32\00:24:56.46
And then here I am.
00:24:56.49\00:24:58.23
What am I going to
say to that mother?
00:24:58.26\00:24:59.59
What can I say to that mother?
00:24:59.63\00:25:01.26
I can just look,
I can just be there.
00:25:01.30\00:25:04.07
Because again,
00:25:04.10\00:25:05.43
we are living in
a broken society.
00:25:05.47\00:25:08.24
And because we're broken
00:25:08.27\00:25:09.60
because sin has made
this world so broken,
00:25:09.64\00:25:12.44
we just need to be there
to be a support and be real,
00:25:12.47\00:25:16.44
just be real with
the support that we give.
00:25:16.48\00:25:18.78
I think that's
critical because no matter
00:25:18.81\00:25:21.45
what kind of loss
you've experienced,
00:25:21.48\00:25:22.92
you know, a loss is a loss.
00:25:22.95\00:25:25.95
Grief is something
00:25:25.99\00:25:28.46
that we were never
meant to experience.
00:25:28.49\00:25:30.53
You know, I was
working in hospice for a while.
00:25:30.56\00:25:33.50
That's something
that I had to make sense
00:25:33.53\00:25:35.96
of for people that I counseled.
00:25:36.00\00:25:38.17
I don't even understand it.
00:25:38.20\00:25:40.57
But grief is
something that is beyond us.
00:25:40.60\00:25:44.21
Yet God in His
infinite mercy and grace
00:25:44.24\00:25:47.08
finds a way to
help us understand,
00:25:47.11\00:25:50.45
little by little,
maybe not everything,
00:25:50.48\00:25:52.71
but little by little,
why certain things happened.
00:25:52.75\00:25:56.45
And grief is just
something that unfortunately,
00:25:56.48\00:25:59.39
we're going to have to deal with
00:25:59.42\00:26:00.76
until He comes back again.
00:26:00.79\00:26:03.36
I don't know, do you,
00:26:03.39\00:26:05.19
is anything else that
you would like to add?
00:26:05.23\00:26:06.56
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:26:06.59\00:26:07.93
Definitely, on
the practical side.
00:26:07.96\00:26:10.63
We're not magicians,
some of us are gifted
00:26:10.67\00:26:14.44
or fortunate enough
to have multiple skills,
00:26:14.47\00:26:18.61
but we don't have everything.
00:26:18.64\00:26:20.64
Every pastor should be
skilled in the ability to refer.
00:26:20.68\00:26:26.08
Know your resource population,
00:26:26.11\00:26:29.42
know your resource population.
00:26:29.45\00:26:31.65
And so, you may
not be a psychologist
00:26:31.69\00:26:35.46
or you may not be a
licensed social worker
00:26:35.49\00:26:40.20
or a counselor per se that
that you can deal with every,
00:26:40.23\00:26:43.13
you know, nuance
of mental health need,
00:26:43.16\00:26:46.74
but at least know
00:26:46.77\00:26:48.40
the resources of your community.
00:26:48.44\00:26:50.57
So that when a
member comes to you,
00:26:50.61\00:26:52.84
and or maybe
does not come to you,
00:26:52.87\00:26:55.94
but you observe,
then be able to either
00:26:55.98\00:26:59.95
meet that person where
they are and say to them,
00:26:59.98\00:27:02.88
you know, this is
where you can get help.
00:27:02.92\00:27:05.89
I appreciate
everything you guys have shared
00:27:05.92\00:27:07.66
and it's such a deep
topic for the people,
00:27:07.69\00:27:13.43
for the fathers, for
everyone who's watching.
00:27:13.46\00:27:18.03
Grief as a father,
whether you've gone through
00:27:18.07\00:27:20.54
the loss of a
marriage, loss of a spouse,
00:27:20.57\00:27:24.31
any type of loss, you're a man,
00:27:24.34\00:27:26.98
you're not God,
you're not perfect.
00:27:27.01\00:27:29.64
It's okay to cry, and
sharing the brokenness,
00:27:29.68\00:27:33.82
as pastors that
are out there watching,
00:27:33.85\00:27:36.28
create an environment of sharing
00:27:36.32\00:27:38.69
with your brothers and sisters,
00:27:38.72\00:27:40.19
specifically with
the men in the church,
00:27:40.22\00:27:42.82
showing that even Jesus wept,
00:27:42.86\00:27:45.16
and Jesus bore our sins
00:27:45.19\00:27:47.36
so that we can have
this community of believers
00:27:47.40\00:27:49.70
in which we can share our grief.
00:27:49.73\00:27:52.30
And fathers, don't be afraid
to show your kids you can cry.
00:27:52.33\00:27:55.60
Thank you for watching.
00:27:55.64\00:27:56.97