A good father
takes time to play.
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He has strong integrity.
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He is someone that
is truly dedicated.
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He is not afraid
to show his love.
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He is a caring provider.
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And he is a kind
spiritual leader.
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These are just a few ways
to describe a father's heart.
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Hi and welcome
to A Father's Heart.
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I'm your host Xavier.
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And today, we're going to
be discussing broken fathers.
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You know, fathers go
through many different things
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such as divorce,
maybe they lose a spouse.
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And what are we
doing to help these fathers
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to restore them,
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you know, to be able to be
complete for their children.
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And with me to
discuss that today
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are my friends Gordon and Paul.
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How are you guys?
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Doing good. Doing
good. Blessed, brother.
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So broken fathers, you know,
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going through
the process of grief
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if you lose a spouse,
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even grief when
you get divorced,
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you know, what are we
doing to restore these gentlemen
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to be fathers,
whole fathers again?
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You know, I haven't
personally experienced firsthand
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the brokenness as
to lose another spouse
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or, you know, anything
of that nature, the only...
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Praise God. Praise the Lord.
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What I've experienced
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is the loss of my father-in-law,
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my wife's dad, and
that in itself is traumatic
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'cause I've been
a support to her,
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trying to even keep
my own self together,
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my own emotions together.
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And I think, the
best thing that we can do
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or what I do is just
being able to sit in the room
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with the father and
just listen to them,
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give them that opportunity
to talk about their grief,
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talk about their pain,
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talk about what
their struggle is,
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and not trying to fix
them, you know, we like to fix.
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But I think this is one thing...
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Grief is
something that we can't fix,
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something that we need to
be able to just being there.
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I call it ministry of presence,
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you know, I
just want to be there
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for the person to help
them along the journey.
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That's the one I can offer,
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you know, in this
conversation for now.
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Absolutely. Absolutely.
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Being there would be paramount.
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I don't think
there's any other work
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or supporting
effort that we can give
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that would be more
helpful than our presence.
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It's good to let
individuals know,
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whether male or female,
we're talking about fathers
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but I'm going to
be inclusive as well.
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When it comes to grief,
hurt, and recovery, I think,
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the hardest
thing for an individual
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is the isolation.
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It's this sense of,
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"This is what I'm going through
and no one else understands.
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This is what I'm going through
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that no one else
has experienced this
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or no one has
experienced it the way I have."
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They're right, you know?
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The average person
that would say to me,
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"You don't know
what I'm feeling."
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No, I don't.
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So it's important
to point them too.
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If that is the void,
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this isolation, this loneliness,
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it's important that
we point them to Christ.
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Right. And it is for most of us.
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What a lot of
people are not aware of
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is that Christ
has suffered as them,
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He has suffered as us.
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We say at times,
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and it has almost
become cliche in reference,
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we say, "Well, you
know, Jesus died for me."
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And it's important to understand
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that Jesus did
not just die for us,
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He died as us.
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We go to Isaiah 53 and
we take some time of study
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and meditation in Isaiah 53
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and you go through
the sufferings of Christ.
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Look also through the Psalms
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and see what it says
about the sufferings of Christ,
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and we contrast
that to His experience
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and the transfiguration
in the garden of Gethsemane
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that He had to bear
the sin of the world.
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So it may seem
trivial when we say,
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"Yes, He faced
every temptation."
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He may not have faced
your literal exact experience,
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but He faced the same
magnitude of that experience,
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and He had to
carry that to the cross.
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All of your brokenness,
all of my brokenness,
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it was upon Him,
that's what Isaiah 53 says.
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So all of that hurt and
pain from whatever it was,
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if it was the result of a rape,
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if it was the result of a
relative committing suicide,
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if it was the
result of a divorce,
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if it was the result
of a loss of a loved one,
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He had to carry that.
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He felt it, He had
to take it to the cross.
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And that's why, I guess,
my favorite text is that,
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"I will look to the hills
from whence cometh my help.
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My help comes from the Lord,
which make heaven and earth."
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So anything that we go
through, any brokenness
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is that's where we have to look,
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we have to look to Christ
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because He is the one
who's going to take this pain,
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He is going to take
all of this from us.
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And we're not...
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I'm not going to say
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that we're not
going to feel the pain
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'cause you're
going to feel the pain,
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you're going to feel it.
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I remember looking at
one of my family members
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go through a divorce,
young man, two young children,
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and it ripped him apart.
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And as a close
family member, as an uncle,
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I'm there just
standing in the gap with him.
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Not only did he lose everything,
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and it really tested
his relationship with God
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to the point where, you
know, he was just going...
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He would go through the emotions
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of what it means to go to church
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and be a Christian.
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But I don't
believe Christ was in Him
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because that brokenness
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caused his
relationship to be broken,
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and so it just was
a spiraling effect.
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So I've seen the pain that...
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I've see the heartache,
and so I know it's not easy.
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So ministry just being there,
and I was just there for him.
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Be a listening ear,
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just to hear what he has to say.
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And I think,
that's critical, you know?
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And I do
appreciate what you're saying,
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but if somebody has
gone through divorce,
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I could tell you firsthand that
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I wouldn't want to
know anything about Jesus.
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Seriously.
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You know, here I am,
first year of seminary,
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going through a
divorce, you know?
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And I'm thinking
back to my worldly days,
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and I had gone through a divorce
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at a very young age.
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So here I am
following a perfect being,
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His name is Jesus,
and what does He give me?
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Another ripped...
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You know, it's the ripping of...
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That's why it's so critical
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to let God marry
you to the right person.
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Not saying those people are bad,
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not saying my ex-wife is bad.
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She's a good person.
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But God had other plans.
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And when the two
fleshes rip, it hurts.
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I can tell you
firsthand right now.
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I sat in the
basement of the house
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that I was renting and I drank.
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Mercy.
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And this is somebody
who's been a future pastor,
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being trained in
every kind of theology.
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And I drank, I didn't want to,
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but that's the only way I
knew how to cure the pain.
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I got through the DivorceCare,
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but it still hurt so bad.
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And I have a child,
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you know, and all
these mixed emotions,
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you know, this is
because on one hand,
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I go to the
church and church says,
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"Oh, that's not
supposed to happen.
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God hates divorce."
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"Okay, He does, but it happens.
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What are you
going to do about it now
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to help me?
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I'm hurting,
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I want to kill
myself, I'm suicidal."
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"But wait, you
are a self-professed,
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somebody that's been a pastor."
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"It doesn't mean I'm not human,
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doesn't mean I'm
not going to suffer.
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So here I am,
going through that."
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And you know what helped?
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Actually, God.
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Three o'clock in the
morning, He woke me up.
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Mind you, I had drank
every day I could imagine,
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so I wouldn't wake up.
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He woke me up. Hallelujah.
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And that Bible just
became clearer that day.
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And it wasn't
anything theological,
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it was something that
was hard-hitting for me
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to know that restoration
was just around the corner.
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And you know what
helped? Community.
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Community.
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You know how many of
my colleagues in seminary
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came to my house to pray,
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to sit and circle me
with prayer and support?
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And ministry of
presence is so key,
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so vital, you
know, and that hurts.
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You know, it hurts to the point
where I refused to love again,
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I refused...
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Now mind you, you
know, God is love.
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I refused to want to
experience love again.
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I'll experience God's love
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but I don't want to
experience relationship love
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'cause all the
church is going to tell me
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is "God hates divorce.
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We're going to put
you in DivorceCare."
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"No!
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What are you doing to help me?
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Where is, you know, Simon?
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You know, where is Simon?
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Where is Jesus'
Simon where he helped,
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you know, even though
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he was forced to
carry that cross,
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there was somebody else
to carry the cross with Him,
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for Him, you know?
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And when I went to...
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When I started have feelings
again for this young lady,
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I told her.
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I said, "My heart is guarded,
I have snipers on the roof,
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and I have pit
bulls at the gate,
00:10:01.46\00:10:03.40
and I have this barbwire
fence with electricity."
00:10:03.43\00:10:06.60
Mercy. "That
nobody is getting in."
00:10:06.63\00:10:08.70
And you know what God
did? He just laughed at me.
00:10:08.74\00:10:11.41
He said, "Okay."
00:10:11.44\00:10:13.24
And now I've been
married for quite some time now
00:10:13.27\00:10:15.78
to a wonderful woman.
00:10:15.81\00:10:17.15
Amen.
00:10:17.18\00:10:18.51
But I would not be able
to see that at the time.
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I was unresponsive
00:10:20.42\00:10:21.75
and I was not willing
for anybody to talk to me
00:10:21.78\00:10:24.69
about any type of Jesus
because I'm hurting and while,
00:10:24.72\00:10:29.29
you know, it's good
to talk about Jesus.
00:10:29.32\00:10:33.83
I also see Jesus as somebody
00:10:33.86\00:10:35.63
who was a very
humanistic psychologist.
00:10:35.66\00:10:41.20
The woman at the well,
the woman caught in adultery,
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every single instance in which
society went to condemn people,
00:10:44.64\00:10:49.38
He didn't say stop.
00:10:49.41\00:10:51.18
He just says He is
with them in the trenches.
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When they're hurting,
He is hurting, when...
00:10:55.48\00:10:58.29
That's what I saw
about Jesus is the fact
00:10:58.32\00:11:00.52
that He wasn't saying, "I
hate divorce, so stop it."
00:11:00.56\00:11:04.26
Well, we should never
get divorced realistically
00:11:04.29\00:11:07.36
because that's
not the ideal thing,
00:11:07.40\00:11:09.30
it happens and it's happening
so much more in our churches.
00:11:09.33\00:11:13.13
So much, so much.
00:11:13.17\00:11:16.04
Jesus says, "You
know what, I understand.
00:11:16.07\00:11:19.37
I see it, because the
hardness of your hearts,
00:11:19.41\00:11:22.18
this is why it's happening."
00:11:22.21\00:11:23.55
Yeah.
00:11:23.58\00:11:24.91
"So here's what
we're going to do."
00:11:24.95\00:11:26.28
And that's one thing
00:11:26.31\00:11:27.65
that I want to
understand as fathers,
00:11:27.68\00:11:30.82
how do we
00:11:30.85\00:11:32.62
when somebody is
grieving, especially a father,
00:11:32.65\00:11:34.46
a man who was
supposed to be big and strong,
00:11:34.49\00:11:36.83
how do we teach our kids to
see beyond the exterior persona
00:11:36.86\00:11:41.50
and see the
brokenness inside to restore?
00:11:41.53\00:11:45.67
I think we just
have to be real to them.
00:11:45.70\00:11:48.00
A lot of times,
we don't sit down
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and talk to our
kids about our pain,
00:11:50.34\00:11:52.87
we don't talk to them
about what we're feeling
00:11:52.91\00:11:55.31
because we're trying
to be this whatever macho,
00:11:55.34\00:11:59.01
this don't-cry kind of a person.
00:11:59.05\00:12:02.68
But if we would talk
to them about our pain
00:12:02.72\00:12:06.15
and our
feelings, and I want to...
00:12:06.19\00:12:08.49
Something you said
that really hit me.
00:12:08.52\00:12:12.33
God could have stepped
in and stopped your hurt,
00:12:12.36\00:12:17.30
but He allowed you
to go through the hurt
00:12:17.33\00:12:22.04
and then when it was right,
00:12:22.07\00:12:24.37
He stepped in and changed.
00:12:24.41\00:12:26.51
He allowed you to
go through alcohol,
00:12:26.54\00:12:28.71
all that stuff that
you were going through,
00:12:28.74\00:12:30.35
He allowed you to go through.
00:12:30.38\00:12:31.71
Now that's an awesome God.
00:12:31.75\00:12:34.22
Indeed.
00:12:34.25\00:12:35.58
And so when we meet
people with brokenness,
00:12:35.62\00:12:37.32
we all would
want to get in there,
00:12:37.35\00:12:38.69
"Okay, you need to this
or you need to do that."
00:12:38.72\00:12:41.26
No.
00:12:41.29\00:12:42.62
You got to let
them go through it
00:12:42.66\00:12:44.33
because when they go through it,
00:12:44.36\00:12:45.69
that's when they know
00:12:45.73\00:12:47.06
that God can
take them through it,
00:12:47.10\00:12:48.43
He is going to
bring them out of it.
00:12:48.46\00:12:50.30
But we need to...
00:12:50.33\00:12:52.07
We need to be just
transparent with our children.
00:12:52.10\00:12:56.50
They're going to get hurt,
they're going to feel pain,
00:12:56.54\00:12:58.47
and it's okay.
00:12:58.51\00:12:59.84
I think that's very important.
00:12:59.87\00:13:03.91
Quite often, our
children don't get to see
00:13:03.95\00:13:08.05
our potential for vulnerability.
00:13:08.08\00:13:10.25
Right.
00:13:10.29\00:13:11.62
We're afraid to express
00:13:11.65\00:13:14.29
or in any way allow
our children to know
00:13:14.32\00:13:17.16
that we have been vulnerable
at times in our own lives.
00:13:17.19\00:13:22.33
I pray that someone
watching this program here
00:13:22.36\00:13:26.47
can see three pastors
as imperfect individuals
00:13:26.50\00:13:31.67
who have
struggled in their own life
00:13:31.71\00:13:34.31
in various areas and
yet God has chosen to work
00:13:34.34\00:13:37.91
in and through us.
00:13:37.95\00:13:39.28
Yeah.
00:13:39.31\00:13:40.65
And it is such evidence
00:13:40.68\00:13:42.02
of the love of
our God, you know?
00:13:42.05\00:13:45.85
Three degrees
00:13:45.89\00:13:47.22
and X amount years of
professional experience
00:13:47.26\00:13:49.39
and this, that, and the other,
00:13:49.42\00:13:50.76
and I'm still broken,
I'm still not perfect,
00:13:50.79\00:13:53.73
I still hurt,
00:13:53.76\00:13:55.10
I still have situations
where I have to cry out.
00:13:55.13\00:14:00.54
And after, in retrospect,
00:14:00.57\00:14:03.00
I look back at one
experience or the other.
00:14:03.04\00:14:05.47
Sometimes, I'm embarrassed,
00:14:05.51\00:14:07.41
you know, I look
at myself and say,
00:14:07.44\00:14:09.48
"Gosh, you know, what
happened to you, man?"
00:14:09.51\00:14:11.58
You know?
00:14:11.61\00:14:12.95
But we all have
those experiences
00:14:12.98\00:14:15.18
and we have to
let our children know,
00:14:15.22\00:14:17.25
especially our young men know
00:14:17.29\00:14:19.89
that it is okay to
be fragile at times,
00:14:19.92\00:14:23.02
it's okay to be hurt,
to be hurt is human, right?
00:14:23.06\00:14:28.23
To be hurt only proves
that that you are human.
00:14:28.26\00:14:33.03
But nothing is
stronger than that presence.
00:14:33.07\00:14:36.17
There is such a statement
as when prayer is not enough,
00:14:36.20\00:14:40.88
when prayer is not enough.
00:14:40.91\00:14:42.24
So there are so many things
00:14:42.28\00:14:43.61
that we tend to
attempt to pray away.
00:14:43.65\00:14:46.21
Yeah. Yes.
00:14:46.25\00:14:47.58
And you know, we
approach the person
00:14:47.62\00:14:50.05
and we lay hands on them
00:14:50.09\00:14:51.75
and we pray and we
say, "Behold, be yield,"
00:14:51.79\00:14:54.62
which is necessary.
00:14:54.66\00:14:56.09
Yes.
00:14:56.12\00:14:57.46
Even James
instructs us to do that,
00:14:57.49\00:14:58.83
but then we still have...
00:14:58.86\00:15:00.20
We need to
remain, we need to remain,
00:15:00.23\00:15:02.80
and we need to be present,
00:15:02.83\00:15:04.33
and we need to
let that person know,
00:15:04.37\00:15:06.43
"Listen, I'm here for you."
00:15:06.47\00:15:08.80
Not to be Eliab
00:15:08.84\00:15:10.97
or can't remember the other two,
00:15:11.01\00:15:12.97
Job's friends, you know?
00:15:13.01\00:15:15.14
Yeah. You don't
have to be like that.
00:15:15.18\00:15:16.91
But you don't have to be there
to bombard them with advice
00:15:16.95\00:15:20.18
and psychology and
all this kind of stuff,
00:15:20.22\00:15:22.98
just being a
brother and being there.
00:15:23.02\00:15:25.72
A member that
experienced the loss of a son,
00:15:25.75\00:15:31.39
and it was a traumatic loss.
00:15:31.43\00:15:35.50
Up to now, that member
can't pull themselves together,
00:15:35.53\00:15:40.17
and they believe in prayer,
they believe in that power.
00:15:40.20\00:15:43.30
But for some reason,
00:15:43.34\00:15:44.74
they can't pull
themselves out of it.
00:15:44.77\00:15:48.64
They have to go through it.
00:15:48.68\00:15:50.51
And so we can't
just try to fix things.
00:15:50.55\00:15:54.65
Exactly.
00:15:54.68\00:15:56.02
The fact of the matter is
that all of us are broken.
00:15:56.05\00:15:59.39
And so in my brokenness
and in your brokenness
00:15:59.42\00:16:02.62
and in your brokenness,
00:16:02.66\00:16:04.19
we all are going
through at a different level
00:16:04.23\00:16:06.83
of different experiences,
00:16:06.86\00:16:10.00
but the one thing
I want to recommend
00:16:10.03\00:16:12.13
and suggest as men,
fathers, with our children,
00:16:12.17\00:16:16.37
being able to
come together like this
00:16:16.40\00:16:18.67
and talk about their brokenness.
00:16:18.71\00:16:20.74
Talk about what
you're going through,
00:16:20.78\00:16:22.11
talk about what
the experience is.
00:16:22.14\00:16:24.11
In that way, we
can learn to embrace
00:16:24.15\00:16:27.35
and connect with each other
00:16:27.38\00:16:29.38
and gain
strength from each other.
00:16:29.42\00:16:31.85
The problem with us is
that we live in isolation.
00:16:31.89\00:16:35.92
We take all of our burdens
and all of our brokenness,
00:16:35.96\00:16:39.49
and we tell, "You know what,
00:16:39.53\00:16:40.86
I'm going to hold on to
this as some kind of a pet,
00:16:40.90\00:16:44.17
child, or whatever, pet animal."
00:16:44.20\00:16:46.57
But we need to be
able to sit in community
00:16:46.60\00:16:48.40
and talk about it
and teach our young men
00:16:48.44\00:16:50.87
to do the same thing
00:16:50.91\00:16:52.27
because they will
perpetuate the same things
00:16:52.31\00:16:54.88
that we are dealing with,
00:16:54.91\00:16:56.78
they're going to just
keep on continuing the cycle.
00:16:56.81\00:16:58.95
That's a continuous cycle.
00:16:58.98\00:17:00.32
And I believe in
going back to the basics.
00:17:00.35\00:17:02.38
You know, for me,
00:17:02.42\00:17:03.92
when I re-read
again the story of Jesus,
00:17:03.95\00:17:09.36
I was blown
away 'cause I'm like,
00:17:09.39\00:17:11.79
"So here is the Son of God
coming from a blended family."
00:17:11.83\00:17:17.30
You know, to me, I
had to re-read it again
00:17:17.33\00:17:20.50
because, you
know, now I'm married
00:17:20.54\00:17:23.37
and we're a blended family,
00:17:23.41\00:17:25.67
and that's supposed to
be statistically wrong,
00:17:25.71\00:17:29.04
like you're supposed to fail.
00:17:29.08\00:17:31.21
We even had
particular people of high esteem
00:17:31.25\00:17:35.95
that told me to my face,
00:17:35.98\00:17:38.42
"Xavier, we are going to
pray that your marriage fails."
00:17:38.45\00:17:40.62
Mercy.
00:17:40.66\00:17:42.79
I had to learn what
turn the other cheek
00:17:42.82\00:17:45.43
meant at that
point 'cause I was livid.
00:17:45.46\00:17:48.46
I said, "Okay, okay."
00:17:48.50\00:17:50.97
But we see Jesus
coming into a world
00:17:51.00\00:17:55.20
that's a mess,
that's broken, being a...
00:17:55.24\00:17:58.91
And a young girl,
being born from a young girl,
00:17:58.94\00:18:03.14
and a man who now is about
to get married to this girl,
00:18:03.18\00:18:06.41
said, "Wait a minute.
00:18:06.45\00:18:07.78
Are you pregnant?
How did this happen?"
00:18:07.82\00:18:10.69
You know...
00:18:10.72\00:18:12.62
Obviously, the angels
reveal and God reveals Himself
00:18:12.65\00:18:15.32
and told them what the plan was,
00:18:15.36\00:18:18.16
but that same
circumstance happens today.
00:18:18.19\00:18:22.16
You know,
restoration for me came
00:18:22.20\00:18:23.87
when I understood
that here is Joseph,
00:18:23.90\00:18:26.97
he doesn't have to
pay any child support.
00:18:27.00\00:18:30.21
Okay, fine, great,
00:18:30.24\00:18:31.57
but he has the
responsibility of raising a son
00:18:31.61\00:18:34.11
that's not his
00:18:34.14\00:18:35.84
and a son that
is the Son of God,
00:18:35.88\00:18:38.41
you know?
00:18:38.45\00:18:39.78
And what I drew from that
is the fact that our churches,
00:18:39.81\00:18:43.18
we need to do
more, beyond DivorceCare.
00:18:43.22\00:18:44.72
Absolutely.
00:18:44.75\00:18:47.02
Really come in
and counsel these men
00:18:47.06\00:18:51.73
who are now thinking
potentially to get remarried
00:18:51.76\00:18:55.23
and educate them
through God's Word,
00:18:55.26\00:18:57.87
not through our
personal feelings
00:18:57.90\00:18:59.23
and emotions,
00:18:59.27\00:19:00.60
even though we have experiences
but through God's Word
00:19:00.64\00:19:02.40
as to what this
restoration looks like
00:19:02.44\00:19:05.21
and what it's going to
look like down the road.
00:19:05.24\00:19:06.91
I don't know. What do you think?
00:19:06.94\00:19:08.54
I wanted to speak
to the element of faith
00:19:08.58\00:19:13.48
and faith's role in recovery,
00:19:13.52\00:19:16.85
faith's role in loss.
00:19:16.89\00:19:20.26
You talked about redeeming.
00:19:20.29\00:19:22.42
We have a culture where I think
00:19:22.46\00:19:25.09
we inappropriately
00:19:25.13\00:19:29.60
address a measure of
faith or a lack thereof,
00:19:29.63\00:19:33.13
you know, it sounds
when we're praising people
00:19:33.17\00:19:36.67
for a success that they have had
00:19:36.71\00:19:38.14
absolutely nothing to do with.
00:19:38.17\00:19:39.51
Listen, let me be plain,
00:19:39.54\00:19:41.31
even within our
culture of pastoral work
00:19:41.34\00:19:43.75
and the call, I hear people
wax eloquent all the time, man,
00:19:43.78\00:19:47.42
about all this, that,
and that, that, the other,
00:19:47.45\00:19:49.48
"And it wasn't
because of that...
00:19:49.52\00:19:50.95
the last minute,
you know, this happened
00:19:50.99\00:19:53.76
and this happened because..."
00:19:53.79\00:19:55.42
We don't know, you
know, we really don't know.
00:19:55.46\00:19:58.49
But someone who is hurting,
00:19:58.53\00:20:03.57
they're not hurting
because they lack faith.
00:20:03.60\00:20:06.94
Someone who has
been through a loss
00:20:06.97\00:20:10.07
and is unable to
cope with the loss,
00:20:10.11\00:20:13.17
they're not necessarily
hurting or unable to cope
00:20:13.21\00:20:17.61
because they lack faith.
00:20:17.65\00:20:20.92
2001, which was about
my second year in seminary,
00:20:20.95\00:20:25.55
packed up the truck,
left Florida, sold home,
00:20:25.59\00:20:28.26
you know, all
this kind of stuff.
00:20:28.29\00:20:30.16
Get here and I'm
making this commitment
00:20:30.19\00:20:32.89
towards ministry,
00:20:32.93\00:20:34.70
my wife becomes
pregnant with our second child.
00:20:34.73\00:20:39.03
She has a high-risk
pregnancy, wife is hospitalized,
00:20:39.07\00:20:43.10
we try our best with
all the different medical,
00:20:43.14\00:20:45.84
you know,
practice and all of that
00:20:45.87\00:20:47.21
to get her to where she
needs to be at gestation
00:20:47.24\00:20:50.05
until it's time that they said,
00:20:50.08\00:20:51.41
"Okay, we have to
deliver the child now."
00:20:51.45\00:20:54.08
And that was just I
think a little past six months.
00:20:54.12\00:20:57.15
And so daughter was born,
00:20:57.19\00:20:59.69
daughter was fine
in physical appearance,
00:20:59.72\00:21:03.02
arms, legs, 10 fingers, 10
toes, eyes, and all of that,
00:21:03.06\00:21:06.49
fully functional as a child,
00:21:06.53\00:21:08.86
but she was yet born with lungs
that were not fully developed.
00:21:08.90\00:21:13.84
And so after they delivered
my daughter, our daughter,
00:21:13.87\00:21:17.94
and they placed my daughter
in my arms and wrapped her,
00:21:17.97\00:21:22.11
I knew she wasn't going to live,
00:21:22.14\00:21:23.75
you know, they told me that.
00:21:23.78\00:21:25.51
And I told the nurse, "No."
00:21:25.55\00:21:27.32
When the nurse came to me
and said, "Here's your child.
00:21:27.35\00:21:30.75
You know, we need you to
spend some time with her."
00:21:30.79\00:21:32.95
"No, that's all right.
00:21:32.99\00:21:34.89
You know, no, that's okay."
00:21:34.92\00:21:37.19
And the nurse encouraged me
00:21:37.23\00:21:38.59
and encouraged me until I did
00:21:38.63\00:21:40.00
and I held my
daughter for close to an hour.
00:21:40.03\00:21:42.46
Nurse told me, "Put your
thumb right here by her heart,
00:21:42.50\00:21:46.03
and when you stop feeling that,
you call us and let us know."
00:21:46.07\00:21:50.97
And just put me in a corner
by myself in a rocking chair.
00:21:51.01\00:21:54.01
Let me tell you, when I
felt my daughter's heart
00:21:54.04\00:21:56.88
finally stopped beating,
00:21:56.91\00:21:58.41
I started to pray and
asked God to resurrect my child.
00:21:58.45\00:22:04.02
And let me tell you, it
wasn't for a lack of faith
00:22:04.05\00:22:07.16
in what God can do,
00:22:07.19\00:22:08.62
I believed 100% that God would
restore my child's heartbeat,
00:22:08.66\00:22:14.10
place breath back in her
lungs and that she would live.
00:22:14.13\00:22:17.13
She didn't, I ended
up burying that child.
00:22:17.17\00:22:20.80
But we need to
understand, as I said,
00:22:20.84\00:22:24.34
stop labeling people and
attaching measures F words
00:22:24.37\00:22:28.78
and faith and believe
and all that, God is God.
00:22:28.81\00:22:31.38
Yes.
00:22:31.41\00:22:32.75
And we need to
accept what God allows,
00:22:32.78\00:22:35.22
and we need to
allow God to be God.
00:22:35.25\00:22:37.89
There will be a day
when we will understand.
00:22:37.92\00:22:40.59
The unanswered why,
the inexplicable how,
00:22:40.62\00:22:43.96
the ambiguous so what,
and all the of this stuff
00:22:43.99\00:22:47.36
will be remedied
in eternity, you know?
00:22:47.40\00:22:49.80
So I want to speak
specifically to the person
00:22:49.83\00:22:52.60
that's going
through that kind of loss,
00:22:52.63\00:22:55.17
that kind of
struggle, that kind of hurt,
00:22:55.20\00:22:58.01
wherein is the lack of closure
00:22:58.04\00:23:00.84
that's persecuting
you, it's okay, it's okay.
00:23:00.88\00:23:04.88
Let it go, let God be God.
00:23:04.91\00:23:08.08
And let us all
look forward to that.
00:23:08.12\00:23:10.29
I'm looking forward
to it, you're looking...
00:23:10.32\00:23:12.89
I know you are. Amen.
00:23:12.92\00:23:14.26
You know, where
everything will be made right
00:23:14.29\00:23:18.03
and we'll understand
00:23:18.06\00:23:19.83
why God allowed whatever it is
00:23:19.86\00:23:22.40
that He allowed to happen.
00:23:22.43\00:23:24.27
There are many times
I'm called by a member
00:23:24.30\00:23:26.23
for counseling one area
00:23:26.27\00:23:27.64
or the other relative
to loss, I'm speechless.
00:23:27.67\00:23:32.14
Yeah.
00:23:32.17\00:23:33.68
What do I say to a mother
00:23:33.71\00:23:35.04
who has just lost
her 16-year old child
00:23:35.08\00:23:37.98
before he's even
really experience,
00:23:38.01\00:23:40.88
you know, life in this world.
00:23:40.92\00:23:43.28
I had one, not so very long ago,
00:23:43.32\00:23:47.39
was lost by an auto
accident, simple auto accident.
00:23:47.42\00:23:50.83
You know, it could be any
of our children, you know?
00:23:50.86\00:23:54.10
We lose
children, we lose spouses,
00:23:54.13\00:23:55.70
we lose parents.
00:23:55.73\00:23:57.40
But the church, and
especially us as men,
00:23:57.43\00:24:00.84
we need to be real.
00:24:00.87\00:24:02.40
Yes. We need to be real.
00:24:02.44\00:24:03.77
Yes.
00:24:03.81\00:24:05.14
Don't hide behind doctrines
and cultures of doctrines
00:24:05.17\00:24:09.11
and who's got faith
and who doesn't have faith.
00:24:09.14\00:24:13.15
Jesus Himself say
00:24:13.18\00:24:15.08
while He was there in the garden
00:24:15.12\00:24:16.65
bearing your sin and
mine and it was crushing Him,
00:24:16.69\00:24:18.95
"Father, if it be possible..."
00:24:18.99\00:24:21.89
Why did he ask that?
00:24:21.92\00:24:23.96
Why did he ask
God for an option?
00:24:23.99\00:24:26.43
Mercy.
00:24:26.46\00:24:27.80
Because he didn't want
to see you with the pain.
00:24:27.83\00:24:29.16
Pain was...
00:24:29.20\00:24:30.53
It was
excruciating. Yeah. His blood.
00:24:30.57\00:24:33.13
So if our Savior can express
that level of vulnerability,
00:24:33.17\00:24:39.47
that level of humanness,
00:24:39.51\00:24:42.51
what about you? What about me?
00:24:42.54\00:24:44.35
And I was looking at a mother,
00:24:44.38\00:24:47.75
sitting on the
porch with her son,
00:24:47.78\00:24:51.52
they're just sitting
there having a good time.
00:24:51.55\00:24:53.62
Someone drive by,
bang, shots rang out.
00:24:53.66\00:24:56.93
She escaped, but her
son lying there, dead.
00:24:56.96\00:25:01.16
And then here I am,
00:25:01.20\00:25:02.90
what am I going to
say to that mother?
00:25:02.93\00:25:04.27
What can I say to that mother?
00:25:04.30\00:25:05.97
I can just look,
I can just be there,
00:25:06.00\00:25:08.77
you know, because again,
00:25:08.80\00:25:10.14
we are living
in a broken society
00:25:10.17\00:25:12.94
and because we're broken,
00:25:12.97\00:25:14.31
because sin has made
this world so broken,
00:25:14.34\00:25:17.25
we just need to be there
to be a support and be real,
00:25:17.28\00:25:21.18
just be real with
the support that we give.
00:25:21.22\00:25:23.42
And I think, that's critical
00:25:23.45\00:25:24.79
because no matter what
kind of loss you've experienced,
00:25:24.82\00:25:27.66
you know, a loss is a loss.
00:25:27.69\00:25:30.63
Grief is something
00:25:30.66\00:25:33.16
that we were never
meant to experience,
00:25:33.19\00:25:34.63
you know, as working
in an hospice for a while,
00:25:34.66\00:25:38.10
that's something that
I had to make sense of
00:25:38.13\00:25:40.77
for people that I counseled.
00:25:40.80\00:25:42.94
I don't even understand it.
00:25:42.97\00:25:45.24
But grief is
something that is beyond us.
00:25:45.27\00:25:47.81
Yes.
00:25:47.84\00:25:49.18
Yet God, in His infinite mercy
00:25:49.21\00:25:51.41
and grace finds a
way to help us understand
00:25:51.45\00:25:55.08
little by little,
maybe not everything,
00:25:55.12\00:25:57.35
but little by little
why certain things happened.
00:25:57.39\00:26:01.09
And grief is just
something that unfortunately,
00:26:01.12\00:26:03.99
we're going to have to deal with
00:26:04.03\00:26:05.36
until He comes back again.
00:26:05.39\00:26:08.03
I don't know...
00:26:08.06\00:26:09.96
Anything else that
you would like to add?
00:26:10.00\00:26:11.70
Oh, yeah.
00:26:11.73\00:26:13.07
Yeah, definitely,
on the practical side.
00:26:13.10\00:26:15.34
We are not
magicians, some of us are gifted
00:26:15.37\00:26:19.21
or fortunate enough
to have multiple skills,
00:26:19.24\00:26:23.31
but we don't have everything.
00:26:23.35\00:26:25.28
Every pastor should be
skilled in the ability to refer.
00:26:25.31\00:26:29.82
Yes.
00:26:29.85\00:26:31.19
Know your resource population,
know your resource population.
00:26:31.22\00:26:36.32
And so you may
not be a psychologist
00:26:36.36\00:26:40.30
or you may not be a
licensed social worker
00:26:40.33\00:26:44.73
or a counselor who say
that you can deal with...
00:26:44.77\00:26:47.10
Every, you know,
nuance of mental health need,
00:26:47.14\00:26:51.44
but at least know the
resources of your community
00:26:51.47\00:26:55.18
so that when a
member comes to you
00:26:55.21\00:26:58.71
or maybe does not come to you
00:26:58.75\00:27:00.62
but you observe,
00:27:00.65\00:27:02.75
then be able to
either meet that person
00:27:02.78\00:27:05.89
where they are and say to them,
00:27:05.92\00:27:07.62
you know, "This is
where you can get help."
00:27:07.66\00:27:10.49
I appreciate
everything you guys have shared,
00:27:10.53\00:27:12.36
and it's such a deep topic
00:27:12.39\00:27:16.36
for the people, for the fathers,
00:27:16.40\00:27:20.17
for everyone who is watching.
00:27:20.20\00:27:22.70
Grief as a father,
00:27:22.74\00:27:24.07
whether you've gone
through the loss of a marriage,
00:27:24.11\00:27:27.21
loss of a
spouse, any type of loss,
00:27:27.24\00:27:29.94
you're a man,
00:27:29.98\00:27:31.65
you're not God,
you're not perfect.
00:27:31.68\00:27:34.32
It's okay to cry and
sharing the brokenness.
00:27:34.35\00:27:38.49
As pastors, that
are out there watching,
00:27:38.52\00:27:40.96
create an environment of sharing
00:27:40.99\00:27:43.36
with your brothers and sisters,
00:27:43.39\00:27:44.73
specifically with
the men in the church,
00:27:44.76\00:27:47.33
showing that even Jesus
wept and Jesus bore our sins
00:27:47.36\00:27:51.90
so that we can have
this community of believers
00:27:51.93\00:27:54.34
in which we can share our grief.
00:27:54.37\00:27:56.97
And, fathers, don't be afraid
to show your kids you can cry.
00:27:57.01\00:28:00.34
Thank you for watching.
00:28:00.38\00:28:01.71