~ Music ~
00:00:26.79\00:00:36.73
Hello, and welcome to
an evening with Paul Helfin
00:04:37.74\00:04:41.44
and Mark Payne.
00:04:41.48\00:04:42.81
Thank you, Mark, for
blessing us already with,
00:04:42.94\00:04:46.55
Angels We Have Heard On High.
00:04:46.58\00:04:48.32
Dare to Dream is doing
something a little different
00:04:48.68\00:04:51.89
by having a Christmas
special with two great artists
00:04:51.92\00:04:54.96
who may be somewhat
new to our audience.
00:04:55.06\00:04:58.09
Tonight you're going to
be inspired by their music
00:04:58.19\00:05:01.50
and hear their hearts as
they share their testimonies
00:05:01.53\00:05:05.20
and favorite Christmas memories.
00:05:05.23\00:05:06.94
So sit back, relax, and
be blessed as Mark and Paul
00:05:06.97\00:05:11.84
bring us their beautiful music.
00:05:11.94\00:05:14.28
Our next selection is
going to be by Paul Heflin
00:05:14.48\00:05:17.51
who will sing,
Mary Did You Know.
00:05:17.55\00:05:20.28
Mary, did you
know that your baby boy
00:05:43.97\00:05:50.41
would one day walk on water?
00:05:50.45\00:05:54.82
Mary, did you
know that your baby boy
00:05:55.12\00:06:01.46
would save our
sons and daughters?
00:06:01.76\00:06:06.63
Did you know that your baby boy
00:06:06.66\00:06:12.57
has come to make you new?
00:06:12.60\00:06:17.74
That this child that you
delivered will soon deliver you.
00:06:18.34\00:06:28.15
Mary, did you
know that your baby boy
00:06:28.18\00:06:34.76
will give sight to a blind man?
00:06:34.79\00:06:39.23
Mary, did you
know that your baby boy
00:06:39.59\00:06:45.63
will calm the
storm with His hand?
00:06:45.83\00:06:50.41
Did you know that your baby boy
00:06:50.44\00:06:56.75
has walked where angels trod?
00:06:56.78\00:07:01.68
When you kiss your little baby,
00:07:02.32\00:07:06.49
you have kissed the face of God.
00:07:07.82\00:07:12.19
O Mary, did you know?
00:07:12.23\00:07:15.53
The blind will
see, the deaf will hear,
00:07:34.32\00:07:39.45
the dead will live again.
00:07:39.65\00:07:43.76
The lame will
leap, the dumb will speak
00:07:44.86\00:07:49.63
the praises of the Lamb.
00:07:50.10\00:07:59.07
And Mary, did you
know that your baby boy
00:08:00.91\00:08:07.62
is Lord of all creation?
00:08:07.65\00:08:12.05
Mary, did you
know that your baby boy
00:08:12.25\00:08:18.49
will one day rule the nations?
00:08:18.83\00:08:23.47
Did you know that your baby boy
00:08:23.57\00:08:29.27
is heaven's perfect Lamb?
00:08:29.60\00:08:34.71
That this sleeping
Child that you're holding,
00:08:35.01\00:08:40.25
that He is the great, I Am.
00:08:40.48\00:08:50.46
O Mary, did you know?
00:08:53.50\00:09:02.90
The first noel
00:09:33.37\00:09:39.51
the angels did say
00:09:40.31\00:09:46.98
was to certain poor shepherds
00:09:47.18\00:09:54.12
in fields where they lay.
00:09:54.86\00:10:00.50
In fields where they
00:10:00.53\00:10:06.74
lay keeping their sheep
00:10:07.14\00:10:13.74
on a cold winter's night
00:10:14.04\00:10:20.65
that was so deep.
00:10:21.65\00:10:27.59
Noel, noel,
00:10:27.62\00:10:34.16
noel, noel.
00:10:34.63\00:10:41.47
Born is the King
00:10:42.17\00:10:47.81
of Israel.
00:10:48.61\00:10:54.08
And they looked, they looked up
00:10:54.28\00:11:00.56
and saw a star
00:11:00.76\00:11:07.66
shining in the east
00:11:07.73\00:11:14.34
beyond them afar.
00:11:15.00\00:11:20.84
And to, and to the earth
00:11:20.88\00:11:26.48
it gave great light,
00:11:27.48\00:11:33.76
and so it continued
00:11:33.79\00:11:41.03
both day and night.
00:11:41.23\00:11:47.00
Noel, noel,
00:11:47.04\00:11:53.68
noel, noel.
00:11:54.18\00:12:00.85
Born is the King
00:12:01.85\00:12:07.69
of Israel.
00:12:08.29\00:12:14.00
We sing noel, sing noel,
00:12:14.10\00:12:20.84
noel, noel.
00:12:20.87\00:12:29.71
Born is the King
00:12:30.11\00:12:37.09
of Israel.
00:12:37.55\00:12:43.06
Born is the King
00:12:44.29\00:12:51.10
of Israel.
00:12:51.33\00:13:01.34
~ Music ~
00:13:19.46\00:13:29.44
Paul and Mark,
that was so beautiful.
00:17:08.22\00:17:10.56
Away in a
Manager; I love the way you
00:17:10.59\00:17:13.06
just put the two
melodies together.
00:17:13.09\00:17:15.53
Pull up a
chair, let's talk some.
00:17:15.63\00:17:17.93
Because I know that
our viewers want to know
00:17:17.97\00:17:20.54
more about you and your
journey, and how you got to
00:17:20.57\00:17:24.47
be where you are.
00:17:24.51\00:17:26.27
So let's start with you, Mark.
00:17:26.47\00:17:28.88
Have you always
been in the church?
00:17:29.74\00:17:31.51
I was raised in the church.
00:17:32.55\00:17:34.32
But there was a time
in my life, I was probably
00:17:35.62\00:17:38.89
in my teens,
there were five of us,
00:17:39.39\00:17:42.36
and my brother who plays
saxophone was playing in a band.
00:17:42.39\00:17:46.29
And I had never
played in a secular band.
00:17:46.93\00:17:49.36
You know, I enjoy
secular music at times, but
00:17:50.37\00:17:53.23
my heart was always in the
church and with gospel music.
00:17:53.84\00:17:56.64
And he said, "Mark, just
play with us one time, man."
00:17:57.11\00:18:00.21
"Mike, no I don't want to."
00:18:01.94\00:18:03.45
"Come on, one time."
00:18:03.75\00:18:05.08
So I consented to go.
00:18:05.11\00:18:07.42
And as you would have it,
the Lord set up a scenario
00:18:07.68\00:18:11.05
to where when I got to
the place, I knew right away
00:18:11.59\00:18:16.62
this is not for me.
00:18:16.93\00:18:18.46
And by the time
that show was over,
00:18:18.66\00:18:20.46
I said, "Lord, if You just
get me out of here this time,
00:18:21.30\00:18:24.37
I will never go
back there again."
00:18:24.40\00:18:26.74
Because I just believe
that for me and my house,
00:18:27.07\00:18:31.47
I can't speak for anybody else,
00:18:31.51\00:18:32.84
but for me, my life,
the music that I play
00:18:32.87\00:18:36.95
is dedicated to God.
00:18:36.98\00:18:38.78
So when you started playing,
00:18:39.58\00:18:45.52
did you start
playing gospel music?
00:18:46.22\00:18:48.69
Or were you playing
like regular little pieces,
00:18:48.72\00:18:51.79
and then you
started playing gospel?
00:18:51.83\00:18:53.60
How did you move into that?
00:18:53.63\00:18:55.50
I mean, I was
raised in the church,
00:18:55.53\00:18:57.30
so it was, you
know, mainly what I heard.
00:18:57.33\00:18:59.30
You know, Christian
music, gospel music.
00:18:59.33\00:19:01.80
But I remember coming
home from church one Sunday,
00:19:03.20\00:19:06.21
and I had heard this melody.
00:19:06.31\00:19:07.68
If you ask me what the
melody is, I couldn't tell you.
00:19:07.71\00:19:10.81
But I came home and just
with one finger I started
00:19:10.91\00:19:14.72
playing out this
melody of the song.
00:19:14.75\00:19:16.99
And my mother said, "Mark, where
did you learn how to play that?"
00:19:17.19\00:19:21.56
And I said, "I don't know.
I just heard it at church."
00:19:21.59\00:19:23.93
And I'm just playing it.
00:19:24.13\00:19:26.93
And one thing led to another.
00:19:27.66\00:19:29.76
I was in junior high school and
my junior high school teacher
00:19:29.96\00:19:34.37
was talking about
people who have perfect pitch.
00:19:34.40\00:19:36.64
And she started playing notes,
and she said, "A person with
00:19:37.01\00:19:40.74
perfect pitch,
if I play this note,
00:19:40.78\00:19:42.91
they can tell me what it is."
00:19:43.28\00:19:44.95
So she played a note.
00:19:44.98\00:19:46.31
And my ear said, "I
know what that note is."
00:19:46.55\00:19:49.45
I don't even know how
I knew what the note was,
00:19:50.12\00:19:51.99
because I hadn't had
any lessons at that point.
00:19:53.15\00:19:55.62
But I knew keys.
00:19:55.66\00:19:57.96
And so she played a note, and
I told her what key that was.
00:19:58.16\00:20:00.73
She played another
one, I told her what key.
00:20:00.76\00:20:02.50
Then she played a chord.
00:20:02.53\00:20:04.03
And I could tell
her what the chord was.
00:20:04.47\00:20:06.13
She said, "I'm going
to talk to your parents.
00:20:06.17\00:20:08.30
You need to take
piano lessons right away.
00:20:08.34\00:20:10.11
You have a gift."
00:20:10.14\00:20:11.47
~ That is a gift.
00:20:12.11\00:20:13.44
That is a gift.
00:20:13.48\00:20:15.01
Like, just being able to know...
00:20:15.04\00:20:17.15
Having perfect
pitch is a gift anyway.
00:20:17.38\00:20:20.12
And then to say
what chords they were
00:20:20.15\00:20:22.65
without even
having taken lessons.
00:20:22.68\00:20:24.69
You just knew?
00:20:24.99\00:20:26.32
Well, I mean, I
had some mentors.
00:20:26.35\00:20:30.26
But I had one particular
mentor who after church
00:20:30.29\00:20:32.93
every Sunday without
fail, and I never asked him...
00:20:32.96\00:20:35.96
~ You grew up in
the Pentecostal church?
00:20:36.00\00:20:38.17
~ Yes.
00:20:38.20\00:20:39.53
And every service he would
say, "Mark, come over here.
00:20:39.57\00:20:42.14
I want to show you something."
00:20:42.17\00:20:43.61
And he would play, and he would
tell me what the notes were.
00:20:43.74\00:20:47.04
And he was an organist.
00:20:47.51\00:20:48.88
So he would have me,
even during the service,
00:20:49.74\00:20:52.45
to play the keys.
00:20:52.58\00:20:53.92
I would be sitting on the
balcony with all my friends,
00:20:53.95\00:20:55.52
and he would motion
and say, "Come down here."
00:20:55.55\00:20:57.92
While they're
singing, service is going on,
00:20:57.95\00:21:00.49
he's say, "Come down here."
00:21:00.52\00:21:01.86
~ So I would go down
there and he'd be playing.
00:21:01.89\00:21:03.96
And he would stop
and he would say, "Play."
00:21:04.29\00:21:06.29
Now my feet
can't touch the pedals.
00:21:06.90\00:21:08.93
So he's playing the
pedals and I'm playing the keys.
00:21:09.43\00:21:12.00
And that's how I started.
00:21:12.77\00:21:14.20
But I never really
had a love for the organ
00:21:14.24\00:21:17.31
until, I mean, at that time.
00:21:17.34\00:21:20.41
And then I had, who is
now my mentor, a pianist.
00:21:20.44\00:21:25.21
I heard him play, and I
knew when I heard him play...
00:21:25.58\00:21:28.62
And I don't know if I
can go on to tell this story.
00:21:29.12\00:21:31.19
~ Yes, please.
00:21:31.22\00:21:32.55
I was at a
church in Washington DC,
00:21:32.65\00:21:35.49
and my mentor was
playing, and he said...
00:21:36.22\00:21:41.23
They introduced him and
said, "I want four people to
00:21:41.90\00:21:44.27
give me your favorite song."
00:21:44.30\00:21:45.73
So four people named their song.
00:21:45.77\00:21:47.20
How Great Thou
Art, Amazing Grace.
00:21:47.24\00:21:48.67
Whatever it was.
00:21:48.70\00:21:50.04
And so, he said, "I'm going
to put all these songs together
00:21:50.07\00:21:54.84
and play them in a medley."
00:21:54.88\00:21:56.21
So my mother is
sitting next to me,
00:21:56.44\00:21:58.25
who is my biggest fan.
00:21:59.41\00:22:00.75
And so when he started
playing, she started weeping.
00:22:01.22\00:22:04.25
And I'm like, what's going on?
00:22:05.29\00:22:08.16
You know, why is this
having an effect on my mother?
00:22:08.19\00:22:12.89
And I knew it was God.
00:22:13.66\00:22:15.00
And I said, "Whatever he
has, that's what I want."
00:22:15.03\00:22:18.37
And I chased down Henry
Davis, if he's watching.
00:22:18.67\00:22:21.80
Henry Mackenzie Davis.
00:22:21.84\00:22:23.71
If you go on YouTube,
just type his name in,
00:22:23.74\00:22:26.31
and you'll be blown away.
00:22:26.34\00:22:27.68
He's the guy who inspired me
to do what I'm doing right now.
00:22:27.71\00:22:30.48
~ Wow, praise the Lord.
00:22:30.51\00:22:31.88
Tell us some of the
artists that you've played with
00:22:31.91\00:22:34.02
over the years.
00:22:34.05\00:22:35.38
I first started out
in Baltimore, Maryland
00:22:35.75\00:22:38.82
I played for a group
called, The Thorns Trio.
00:22:38.85\00:22:40.79
James Cleveland discovered them
and put them on vinyl record.
00:22:40.82\00:22:46.19
And I played my first recording
with them on vinyl record
00:22:46.49\00:22:51.53
at 17 years old.
00:22:51.57\00:22:53.00
And we went to two
gospel music workshops and we
00:22:53.30\00:22:57.41
won best female gospel
artist two years in a row.
00:22:57.44\00:23:01.68
~ So you were
playing for the female...
00:23:01.71\00:23:03.61
~ I was playing for the group.
00:23:03.65\00:23:04.98
I just wanted to make
sure that people understood.
00:23:05.01\00:23:07.48
You know, it could be a
little bit questionable.
00:23:09.05\00:23:11.62
So yes, so you were playing
for some female gospel artists.
00:23:11.65\00:23:15.16
And they won the best...
00:23:15.19\00:23:16.52
~ The best female gospel
group for two years in a row.
00:23:16.56\00:23:21.26
And I could name some
people who were up against us
00:23:21.30\00:23:23.47
at the time, but it's
not able to the competition.
00:23:23.50\00:23:25.63
But just part of the story.
00:23:25.93\00:23:27.77
And then later on
different artists.
00:23:28.10\00:23:31.97
I played with Larnelle.
00:23:32.01\00:23:33.34
I got to play on a
few recordings with him.
00:23:33.38\00:23:36.78
~ Larnelle Harris. -
Yes, Larnelle Harris.
00:23:36.81\00:23:39.18
And then Dino; I got a
call that Dino Kartsonakis
00:23:39.21\00:23:43.69
was going to do a
pianorama with five pianos.
00:23:43.72\00:23:46.69
And I got a call saying
they were looking for a pianist.
00:23:46.99\00:23:50.99
And they chose me.
00:23:51.46\00:23:55.06
~ Wow, we love Dino.
He's a good friend of ours.
00:23:55.10\00:23:58.30
They flew us
out and we did that.
00:23:58.33\00:24:00.10
And just different
artists throughout the years.
00:24:00.30\00:24:02.64
But I was more of an accompanist
than actually a soloist.
00:24:02.94\00:24:06.64
And that just kind of evolved,
00:24:06.68\00:24:08.04
one thing
evolved into the other.
00:24:08.08\00:24:10.65
~ What would you say has
been the greatest challenge
00:24:11.18\00:24:15.88
for you in doing gospel music
versus playing for the world?
00:24:15.92\00:24:22.12
Or has there been?
00:24:22.42\00:24:23.76
For me, I don't know
that there's been a challenge
00:24:25.59\00:24:28.76
to play that music,
because here's the thing.
00:24:28.80\00:24:31.63
When God places you in
a place to do what you are
00:24:32.97\00:24:36.10
called to do, He
makes provision for it.
00:24:36.14\00:24:38.71
And so, He's always...
00:24:39.11\00:24:40.61
This takes me back to when
I used to play for Larnelle.
00:24:40.64\00:24:44.28
I played one
song at every concert:
00:24:44.55\00:24:46.95
Great Is Thou Faithfulness.
00:24:47.05\00:24:48.48
And one day here
comes another concert,
00:24:49.25\00:24:55.32
which I used to
take this for granted.
00:24:55.36\00:24:57.09
And I said,
"Lord, do I have to play,
00:24:57.39\00:25:00.16
Great Is Thou
Faithfulness, again?"
00:25:00.20\00:25:02.36
And do you know what He said?
00:25:03.16\00:25:04.67
I mean, I heard,
it was almost audible.
00:25:04.70\00:25:07.47
He said, "Am I still faithful?"
00:25:07.74\00:25:09.70
He said, "Keep playing."
00:25:10.57\00:25:11.91
Before I could answer, He
said, "Keep playing the song."
00:25:11.94\00:25:13.91
~ You know what?
00:25:14.28\00:25:15.61
Guess what?
00:25:15.64\00:25:16.98
I'm getting ready to ask
you to play it right now.
00:25:17.01\00:25:18.95
Now we did not practice this.
00:25:18.98\00:25:21.02
He did not know I was
going to ask him to play this.
00:25:21.22\00:25:24.09
But we've got some time,
so would you play it for us?
00:25:24.12\00:25:27.96
~ Music ~
00:25:31.49\00:25:34.23
Great is Thy faithfulness.
00:29:30.87\00:29:36.00
Great is still Thy faithfulness.
00:29:37.27\00:29:42.38
Morning by
morning new mercies I see.
00:29:42.94\00:29:52.89
All I have needed
00:29:54.72\00:29:59.96
Thy hands have provided.
00:30:00.13\00:30:06.53
Great is Thy faithfulness,
00:30:06.84\00:30:12.64
great is Thy faithfulness,
00:30:13.31\00:30:18.81
great is Thy faithfulness,
00:30:19.08\00:30:29.06
O Lord,
00:30:33.23\00:30:39.57
unto me.
00:30:40.24\00:30:50.18
As my husband would
say, that was a two-hander.
00:30:58.19\00:31:00.89
That was a
two-hander. Praise the Lord.
00:31:01.19\00:31:04.19
To do this on the
spur of the moment
00:31:04.23\00:31:06.70
and just, I mean, God has
gifted you guys so amazingly.
00:31:06.73\00:31:11.27
Amen.
00:31:11.30\00:31:12.63
~ Music ~
00:31:14.94\00:31:20.94
Amen.
00:34:48.28\00:34:49.62
Away in a manger
00:35:19.41\00:35:25.42
no crib for a bed,
00:35:25.45\00:35:30.73
the little Lord Jesus
00:35:30.79\00:35:36.33
lay down His sweet head.
00:35:36.36\00:35:41.64
The stars in the sky
00:35:42.30\00:35:47.84
look down where He lay;
00:35:47.88\00:35:52.71
the little Lord Jesus
00:35:52.75\00:35:58.35
asleep on the hay.
00:35:58.95\00:36:05.06
So be near me, Lord Jesus,
00:36:11.70\00:36:17.64
I ask You to stay
00:36:18.14\00:36:23.28
close by me forever
00:36:23.81\00:36:29.08
and love me, I pray.
00:36:29.48\00:36:34.42
Bless all the dear children
00:36:34.72\00:36:40.30
in Your tender care,
00:36:40.33\00:36:45.80
and fit us for heaven
00:36:46.20\00:36:50.91
to live with Thee there.
00:36:51.47\00:36:57.68
I want to be with You forever.
00:36:59.58\00:37:02.68
Fit us for heaven.
00:37:04.55\00:37:06.89
Each and every day
00:37:09.92\00:37:12.96
would You please
fit us for heaven.
00:37:12.99\00:37:17.53
We want to live with You there.
00:37:20.40\00:37:25.94
Fit us for heaven.
00:37:25.97\00:37:28.54
We want to live with You there.
00:37:31.01\00:37:35.52
Would You fit us for heaven?
00:37:35.55\00:37:38.79
Tell us the way to speak.
00:37:41.59\00:37:44.23
Tell us the way to think.
00:37:47.16\00:37:50.17
Fit us for heaven.
00:37:52.80\00:37:55.54
We want to live with You there.
00:37:57.34\00:38:04.65
Amen.
00:38:11.39\00:38:12.72
I want to kind of
talk to you, brother Paul,
00:38:12.75\00:38:14.92
because we haven't talked yet.
00:38:14.96\00:38:16.39
Tell us how you started in
music ministry, first of all.
00:38:16.69\00:38:21.33
You know, it's interesting
you just mentioned about a gift.
00:38:22.43\00:38:26.30
And a lot of times, especially
when you grow up in church,
00:38:26.97\00:38:29.40
it takes you a while to
realize that it's a gift.
00:38:29.97\00:38:34.74
And it's not
yours, but it's His.
00:38:35.21\00:38:39.45
~ And it comes with
a great responsibility.
00:38:40.45\00:38:43.05
So I sang in
church, my dad is a pastor,
00:38:43.95\00:38:46.39
for many, many years.
00:38:47.46\00:38:48.79
But I didn't acknowledge
that it was His gift.
00:38:51.96\00:38:55.40
You sing all your life,
it's what you do, you know.
00:38:56.26\00:38:58.73
He was playing
from the very beginning,
00:38:58.77\00:39:01.20
I mean, because it was a gift.
00:39:01.60\00:39:03.77
He had no part in it
except to develop it.
00:39:03.81\00:39:08.24
You know what I mean.
00:39:08.28\00:39:09.61
I would be singing and
hollering and all kind of stuff.
00:39:09.64\00:39:12.81
My parents were
like, "Oh boy," you know.
00:39:12.85\00:39:15.98
But at the same time,
you know, they're believers.
00:39:16.38\00:39:19.49
And the message that
they're preaching all along
00:39:20.22\00:39:22.79
is that it belongs to the Lord.
00:39:22.82\00:39:24.43
But I grew up in the church.
00:39:27.20\00:39:28.86
So I was always
singing, always in a choir,
00:39:29.76\00:39:32.63
always on a praise team.
00:39:32.67\00:39:34.37
But I wasn't converted.
00:39:34.60\00:39:36.10
For many years I
lived as a homosexual.
00:39:39.11\00:39:41.58
And that was about 16 years ago.
00:39:42.51\00:39:47.28
And I woke up one day and I
said, "Lord, I want my destiny."
00:39:48.75\00:39:51.55
And He just plucked me out.
00:39:52.29\00:39:54.62
And the thing that's
so interesting about it
00:39:55.42\00:39:59.26
is that I really
learned to live by faith.
00:39:59.96\00:40:03.47
We want the grace of
God, the grace that saves,
00:40:05.03\00:40:09.07
but it only works by faith.
00:40:09.34\00:40:11.07
We have access by
faith into this grace.
00:40:11.64\00:40:14.18
So I told the Lord,
"I want my destiny."
00:40:14.21\00:40:18.75
And He required
me to live by faith.
00:40:18.78\00:40:21.15
~ So this is so amazing.
00:40:21.35\00:40:23.79
I'm so glad that you're
sharing this testimony with us,
00:40:23.82\00:40:26.72
and I appreciate
your transparency,
00:40:26.76\00:40:29.42
because there are so
many people who are battling
00:40:29.46\00:40:32.93
with that whole
area of sexual sin.
00:40:32.96\00:40:37.77
Whether it's homosexuality,
bisexuality, adultery,
00:40:37.80\00:40:41.37
pornography, whatever it is,
00:40:41.40\00:40:43.91
it's got a stronghold on people.
00:40:44.11\00:40:47.78
And what you are saying is
that the Lord has delivered you
00:40:47.81\00:40:51.81
from that 16 years ago.
00:40:51.85\00:40:55.45
If you would, just share a
little bit more about how the
00:40:56.58\00:41:00.56
Lord brought you out of that.
00:41:00.59\00:41:02.96
Because I think people
need to know there is victory,
00:41:02.99\00:41:06.16
there is victory in Jesus.
00:41:06.59\00:41:08.30
~ And thank you
for saying that because
00:41:08.33\00:41:09.76
I also want to add
that that was 16 years ago,
00:41:10.07\00:41:13.97
and I've been married for
10 years to a beautiful wife
00:41:14.77\00:41:18.74
and we have four children.
00:41:18.77\00:41:20.28
~ And so, you need
to realize what the
00:41:20.81\00:41:23.45
enemy is stealing from you.
00:41:23.48\00:41:25.91
Because to steal, to
kill, and to destroy.
00:41:25.95\00:41:30.85
And look at what he
would have stolen from me
00:41:31.05\00:41:33.76
if I continued to
listen to his lies.
00:41:33.79\00:41:35.76
But I want to say something.
00:41:36.76\00:41:38.16
It's always simpler
than most people think.
00:41:38.19\00:41:40.70
They think it's a
big thing happened.
00:41:40.73\00:41:42.73
No.
00:41:43.37\00:41:44.70
I made a decision.
00:41:45.33\00:41:46.67
"You're right, God."
00:41:47.70\00:41:49.04
That's what righteousness is.
00:41:49.17\00:41:50.77
It's simply saying,
"You're right, I'm wrong."
00:41:51.27\00:41:53.38
"But, God...
00:41:53.58\00:41:54.91
You're right, I'm wrong."
00:41:54.94\00:41:56.28
We spend so much time
trying to justify our lives.
00:41:56.31\00:41:59.98
Christ is our justification.
00:42:00.02\00:42:02.45
That's what righteousness is.
00:42:02.75\00:42:04.59
"Oh, God, it feels so horrible.
00:42:04.62\00:42:07.16
But you're right and I'm wrong.
00:42:07.36\00:42:10.99
So what have I got
to do to make it right?"
00:42:11.19\00:42:13.73
And that's what I did.
00:42:13.76\00:42:15.10
My time in the Word, my
worship, whatever I did,
00:42:15.13\00:42:18.63
"You're right, I'm wrong."
00:42:18.67\00:42:20.60
And it began to reshape my mind.
00:42:20.64\00:42:23.61
It began to reshape my thinking.
00:42:23.81\00:42:25.54
The possibilities of
what I could do and who I was
00:42:25.57\00:42:29.71
began to change.
00:42:29.74\00:42:32.21
And now I just can't imagine
that I ever lived that life.
00:42:32.25\00:42:34.78
When I see people in
it, I don't criticize them,
00:42:36.08\00:42:40.89
I don't down them, I
don't disparage them.
00:42:41.19\00:42:43.53
I look at them and go,
00:42:43.89\00:42:45.23
"You can be more than
you think you can be."
00:42:45.66\00:42:48.76
And see, and I think
that's a very important point.
00:42:49.03\00:42:52.23
It's sharing hope with
people who feel as though,
00:42:52.27\00:42:56.97
"I can't get out
of this situation."
00:42:57.34\00:43:00.48
One of the things that
we have on Dare to Dream,
00:43:00.74\00:43:03.04
we have a program,
Strategies for Strongholds.
00:43:03.08\00:43:06.21
It's a new program
that really addresses
00:43:06.25\00:43:09.12
these different strongholds
that have people so bound
00:43:09.15\00:43:12.95
that they feel
like they can't get out.
00:43:13.25\00:43:15.22
But you just named some
very interesting things.
00:43:15.26\00:43:17.86
You named some disciplines.
00:43:17.89\00:43:19.83
You got in the Word, you
were praying and talking to God.
00:43:19.86\00:43:24.00
Without those disciplines...
00:43:24.03\00:43:26.20
~ And I made a decision.
00:43:26.30\00:43:27.64
~ And that's the first
thing. - I made a decision.
00:43:27.67\00:43:29.40
~ But you know, some
people at first, they can't
00:43:29.44\00:43:32.84
even say, "I want out."
00:43:32.87\00:43:35.24
Even the desire to
come out must come from God.
00:43:35.61\00:43:40.55
So the first...
00:43:40.82\00:43:42.22
~ All from the
righteous praying.
00:43:42.25\00:43:43.59
~ And the first prayer has
to be, if you don't want it,
00:43:44.09\00:43:47.82
to ask God to
help you to want it.
00:43:47.86\00:43:49.79
~ Yeah, yeah.
00:43:49.82\00:43:51.16
But you made a decision.
00:43:51.26\00:43:53.56
And God has given us free will.
00:43:53.83\00:43:56.00
So you made that decision.
00:43:56.46\00:43:58.27
And from there you
got in the Word. Right?
00:43:58.47\00:44:02.07
And you were praying.
00:44:02.10\00:44:03.84
And little by little the
Lord began to work on you.
00:44:03.87\00:44:08.41
Is that what happened?
00:44:08.44\00:44:09.78
Tell us what happened.
00:44:09.81\00:44:11.15
I have to tell you, the
Word, the Word, the Word.
00:44:11.18\00:44:15.28
Because the Word of
God is the image of God.
00:44:15.58\00:44:19.05
You know how Paul said,
"I'm not ashamed of the gospel."
00:44:19.62\00:44:22.76
And he talked about the
fact that the Word of God,
00:44:22.99\00:44:28.60
if the gospel be
hid, it's hid to who?
00:44:28.63\00:44:31.83
Those that are lost.
00:44:31.87\00:44:33.20
But the god of this
world has blinded it
00:44:33.23\00:44:35.20
from the minds of
them that believe not.
00:44:35.24\00:44:36.81
Why? For fear that the
light of the glorious gospel
00:44:36.84\00:44:40.98
who is the image of
God should shine unto them.
00:44:41.01\00:44:46.61
So, the Word,
the Word, the Word.
00:44:46.65\00:44:49.48
Let it change the image
that you have of yourself.
00:44:49.52\00:44:53.22
I would have never
thought of myself as a father.
00:44:53.25\00:44:55.99
I would have never
thought of myself as a husband.
00:44:56.02\00:44:58.83
But the Word changed the image.
00:44:59.33\00:45:01.70
Get in the Word of God.
00:45:02.03\00:45:04.53
It will change the
image that you have.
00:45:04.57\00:45:07.54
You may have been molested,
00:45:07.74\00:45:09.27
but let the Word
change the image.
00:45:09.57\00:45:12.17
You may be full of pride, but
let the Word change the image.
00:45:13.21\00:45:19.05
It's the gospel.
00:45:19.61\00:45:21.82
He wants to hide it from you,
because if you get in that Word
00:45:21.85\00:45:26.52
it will change
who you think you are.
00:45:26.86\00:45:28.76
~ The enemy
wants, again, he wants to
00:45:28.79\00:45:32.19
kill, steal, and destroy.
00:45:32.23\00:45:33.93
God has a plan for you,
a divine destiny for you.
00:45:34.40\00:45:38.53
And Satan has a destiny...
00:45:38.57\00:45:41.04
~ Exactly, exactly, exactly.
00:45:41.07\00:45:44.21
~ And so, was there a
pivotal event that actually
00:45:44.24\00:45:50.28
had you make that decision?
00:45:50.31\00:45:52.38
Was there something that
happened in your life that
00:45:52.41\00:45:54.75
made you say, "You know
what, I'm done with this.
00:45:54.78\00:45:57.65
I don't want this anymore."
00:45:57.69\00:45:59.05
Was there
something that happened?
00:45:59.09\00:46:00.42
I received a
call from a brother.
00:46:00.46\00:46:02.62
And he said, "Paul, you have got
to come out of homosexuality."
00:46:03.63\00:46:08.80
~ Now was he a
former homosexual as well?
00:46:08.83\00:46:11.30
~ Ah, yeah. ~ Okay, okay.
00:46:11.33\00:46:12.77
And he said,
"There's a call, there's an
00:46:12.80\00:46:14.54
apostolic call on your life.
00:46:14.57\00:46:16.30
I paid him no
attention, I was so deep in it.
00:46:16.57\00:46:18.77
And I woke up one morning
and I said, "I want my destiny.
00:46:19.91\00:46:25.31
I've got to have Jesus."
00:46:26.05\00:46:27.68
And I'm going to say this, I
said, "I grew up in the church."
00:46:28.08\00:46:30.79
It's important to know this.
00:46:32.29\00:46:33.89
There are many people who
have grown up in the church,
00:46:34.26\00:46:37.63
but they're not converted.
00:46:37.66\00:46:39.16
They're married to denomination,
they're married to tradition,
00:46:39.83\00:46:43.10
they're married
to church culture.
00:46:43.43\00:46:44.77
They have never
given God their hearts.
00:46:44.80\00:46:46.33
I wanted to say that.
00:46:46.37\00:46:47.70
We need to unpack
that just a little bit.
00:46:48.10\00:46:51.44
Because that is so true.
00:46:51.64\00:46:53.78
You can say, "I'm a Christian."
00:46:53.81\00:46:56.31
But everybody that
says, "Lord, Lord..."
00:46:56.34\00:46:58.41
~ Exactly. - Right?
00:46:58.48\00:46:59.81
...is not going
to be in the kingdom.
00:46:59.85\00:47:01.42
So that is a
very important point.
00:47:01.45\00:47:05.55
It's not about the
label, it's about your heart
00:47:05.85\00:47:10.03
and your
relationship with the Lord.
00:47:10.06\00:47:13.09
~ That's right.
- That's the key.
00:47:13.13\00:47:14.86
So go ahead, tell us, tell us.
00:47:14.90\00:47:16.23
So he said to me,
"You've got to come out."
00:47:16.26\00:47:17.80
And I didn't pay
any attention to him.
00:47:18.90\00:47:21.10
I woke up one day and I
said, "I have to have Jesus.
00:47:21.14\00:47:25.37
I've got to have my destiny."
00:47:25.41\00:47:26.74
I called him.
00:47:26.94\00:47:28.38
He said, "Paul,
God would wake me up
00:47:29.34\00:47:32.65
at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning
and say, 'Pray for him.'"
00:47:33.52\00:47:37.72
He said, "God, I
have to go to work."
00:47:38.39\00:47:40.42
He said, "Pray for him."
00:47:40.46\00:47:41.96
And I just wanted
to make that point.
00:47:41.99\00:47:43.76
As you mentioned
earlier, strongholds.
00:47:43.79\00:47:45.93
There are strongholds that
are choking the life out of
00:47:46.13\00:47:50.53
people, and they
will never get out
00:47:50.57\00:47:53.27
unless the
righteous are praying.
00:47:53.84\00:47:57.01
Umm, yes.
00:47:57.14\00:47:59.01
Some of us are here
today, we only escaped
00:47:59.24\00:48:02.34
because somebody was praying.
00:48:02.54\00:48:04.61
Yes, yes.
00:48:04.65\00:48:06.61
~ And I never
take that for granted.
00:48:06.65\00:48:08.08
I don't look at people and go,
"Oh, they're a hopeless case."
00:48:08.12\00:48:10.35
If you pray, they
may not be hopeless.
00:48:10.75\00:48:14.52
~ That's right.
00:48:14.56\00:48:15.89
We can't judge what...
00:48:16.52\00:48:18.09
We can see...
00:48:18.13\00:48:19.46
You know, we are to
judge. Righteous judgment.
00:48:19.49\00:48:21.93
We can see, "By their
fruits you shall know them."
00:48:21.96\00:48:24.53
We can see their
fruits. We can see...
00:48:24.57\00:48:26.63
But it's not for us to
say they're a hopeless case.
00:48:26.67\00:48:29.44
The Lord is in control.
00:48:29.87\00:48:32.04
It's for us, and I'm so
glad you brought this out,
00:48:32.07\00:48:34.41
it's for us to pray for people.
00:48:34.71\00:48:37.81
To ask God to
intervene in their lives.
00:48:38.31\00:48:41.48
I mean, they might
not even know to pray.
00:48:41.52\00:48:45.49
We have to intercede for
them, stand in the gap for them.
00:48:45.89\00:48:49.26
So yeah, I mean, I
think that is excellent.
00:48:49.66\00:48:52.53
We have to pray for
people and not decide on our own
00:48:52.56\00:48:56.36
that, "No, that's a
hopeless case right there."
00:48:56.77\00:48:58.90
~ Exactly.
00:48:58.93\00:49:00.27
- Who are we to say
that? ~ And it's so rewarding.
00:49:00.30\00:49:01.70
I've got to tell you,
sometimes I just lay back
00:49:02.27\00:49:04.94
in the presence of
the Lord and He'll give me
00:49:04.97\00:49:07.28
a picture of
someone that needs prayer.
00:49:07.74\00:49:10.21
And I'm so glad that I'm not
wasting my life being selfish.
00:49:10.31\00:49:13.48
Just doing things that
don't matter, don't have any
00:49:14.55\00:49:17.89
standing in eternity.
00:49:18.35\00:49:20.06
I want to look at
somebody in eternity, and go,
00:49:20.09\00:49:24.13
"Wow, that person may be
the fruit of your prayer."
00:49:24.83\00:49:29.30
You know, you're standing there
worshiping, singing with them,
00:49:31.27\00:49:33.44
and they are the
fruit of your prayer.
00:49:33.47\00:49:35.30
~ Yes, yes, yes.
00:49:35.34\00:49:37.34
So right now with your ministry,
00:49:37.87\00:49:41.04
what are you doing
with your ministry?
00:49:41.08\00:49:43.71
~ Well, what's interesting
is that I'm writing a book.
00:49:43.75\00:49:47.05
~ Ah.
00:49:47.08\00:49:48.42
Based on exactly that,
coming out of that sin trap.
00:49:48.45\00:49:53.32
Because I've got to
tell you, the rallying cry
00:49:53.36\00:49:56.86
of the gay community is what?
00:49:56.89\00:49:58.99
Gay pride.
00:49:59.19\00:50:01.10
And we know what the
Bible says about pride.
00:50:01.73\00:50:03.90
It goes before destruction.
00:50:03.93\00:50:05.27
They don't even realize.
00:50:05.30\00:50:06.63
Like you said, they don't even
realize where they're headed.
00:50:06.67\00:50:08.70
And it's destruction.
00:50:09.30\00:50:12.31
But it's
important that they know
00:50:14.28\00:50:20.82
that God has a plan for them.
00:50:20.85\00:50:22.95
And it is not destruction.
00:50:23.89\00:50:25.75
The enemy's plan
is their destruction.
00:50:26.35\00:50:29.96
But that's not God's plan.
00:50:30.43\00:50:32.36
And so, I'm writing a book.
00:50:32.39\00:50:34.00
And I just want to
share out of that book
00:50:34.80\00:50:38.77
what God has done for me,
and the difference that it made
00:50:39.40\00:50:42.67
even in my ministry.
00:50:42.97\00:50:44.41
People would just go,
"There's something different.
00:50:45.01\00:50:49.14
I don't know, you're not just...
There's something different."
00:50:49.18\00:50:53.78
~ And it was God's presence.
00:50:54.08\00:50:55.68
~ It was about what?
- It was God's presence.
00:50:56.22\00:50:58.15
~ Yes. - It was God's approval.
00:50:58.19\00:50:59.92
You know what I mean?
00:51:00.19\00:51:01.52
Just because
God gives you a gift
00:51:01.56\00:51:02.89
doesn't mean He approves of it.
00:51:02.92\00:51:04.49
You know, it's
like the Scripture says,
00:51:04.53\00:51:05.99
"Your gift will
make room for you."
00:51:06.03\00:51:08.40
And I know many people, their
gift has made room for them.
00:51:08.60\00:51:11.57
But they've not done the
right thing with the gift.
00:51:11.70\00:51:14.04
There are some
phenomenal gifts out there.
00:51:14.07\00:51:16.34
And then there are gifts out
there, they just seem kind of,
00:51:16.81\00:51:20.58
they don't seem like
they are so fantastic.
00:51:22.81\00:51:25.35
But when you hear them,
when you experience them,
00:51:25.65\00:51:30.55
you're like, God is in that.
00:51:30.85\00:51:33.42
~ It's their
anointing. ~ It's the anointing.
00:51:33.46\00:51:35.72
You can hear instruments that,
you know, somebody can have
00:51:35.76\00:51:39.59
the greatest instrument,
and they sound great, you know,
00:51:39.63\00:51:43.57
and you're like,
"Wow, that's a great voice."
00:51:43.60\00:51:45.77
But you're not moved.
00:51:46.07\00:51:47.60
It's not moving you to worship.
00:51:47.64\00:51:50.47
The whole idea, I believe, that
with singers and instruments,
00:51:50.51\00:51:56.61
the idea is to get
us to worship together.
00:51:56.98\00:52:03.89
This is not about this.
00:52:04.52\00:52:06.86
This is this.
00:52:07.16\00:52:08.52
So it's not
horizontal, it's vertical.
00:52:08.56\00:52:11.83
We are worshiping, so
join me in worshiping the Lord.
00:52:11.86\00:52:16.36
And that's what
I see you guys do.
00:52:16.40\00:52:19.33
And it's such a blessing,
that's such a blessing.
00:52:19.37\00:52:22.60
That just happened.
00:52:22.64\00:52:23.97
And that's the only
thing I'm interested in.
00:52:24.41\00:52:26.71
Like hearing Mark play, and
say, listen, it's that organic.
00:52:27.61\00:52:34.82
Experience it with God.
00:52:35.18\00:52:38.12
That's what it's all about.
00:52:38.22\00:52:39.59
And you know,
it's so interesting,
00:52:39.62\00:52:41.32
I was just in Long
Island doing a meeting.
00:52:42.42\00:52:44.56
And there was a musician
there, he was a worship leader
00:52:44.76\00:52:47.90
and a musician.
00:52:47.93\00:52:49.26
And I sat there
going, "He's saved.
00:52:49.73\00:52:54.44
I know he's saved."
00:52:55.90\00:52:57.54
And I think at the
end of the service...
00:52:57.57\00:53:01.54
Because the Lord has
talked to me about overflow.
00:53:02.01\00:53:04.35
He said, "It's going to
be in the overflow, Paul.
00:53:04.65\00:53:06.78
It's just going to be
where I just..." you know.
00:53:07.05\00:53:10.15
And the musician was there
at the end in the overflow,
00:53:10.19\00:53:13.42
and he was just playing.
00:53:13.56\00:53:15.42
And his eyes were
closed and he was playing.
00:53:15.72\00:53:18.03
And I was just there listening.
00:53:18.06\00:53:19.79
That's the overflow.
00:53:20.26\00:53:22.23
That's the overflow.
00:53:22.40\00:53:24.10
And that's all I
think people that really
00:53:24.30\00:53:27.14
love God are interested in.
00:53:27.17\00:53:28.54
I don't want to
hear anybody perform.
00:53:29.00\00:53:30.37
I can buy a
ticket and go and listen
00:53:30.41\00:53:32.37
to a secular artist perform.
00:53:32.41\00:53:33.88
But when it comes
to the things of God,
00:53:34.18\00:53:36.44
I want to be
drawn into His presence.
00:53:36.48\00:53:39.08
I need the
presence of God, yeah.
00:53:39.28\00:53:42.55
And that's what we want.
00:53:42.65\00:53:45.59
We don't want it to
be about performance.
00:53:45.62\00:53:49.29
Because anybody that has
any kind of gift can perform.
00:53:49.32\00:53:53.80
But it's all about worship.
00:53:54.33\00:53:56.56
And that is what
you have done here.
00:53:56.80\00:54:00.94
And I'm just, I'm so
grateful that you guys
00:54:00.97\00:54:05.04
came and ministered to us.
00:54:05.07\00:54:08.28
And we're going
to have one more song
00:54:08.31\00:54:11.41
from you in just a
moment, Paul, talking about
00:54:11.71\00:54:16.12
what we want on earth.
00:54:16.62\00:54:18.89
What do we need here?
00:54:19.42\00:54:21.72
Just tell us like in
10 seconds what we need.
00:54:21.82\00:54:25.26
Peace on earth.
00:54:25.93\00:54:27.56
~ We need peace on earth.
00:54:28.46\00:54:30.03
So you are going to sing
that, Mark is going to play,
00:54:30.07\00:54:34.20
and we're going to be blessed.
00:54:34.47\00:54:36.50
Because we need peace on earth.
00:54:36.54\00:54:39.71
Let there be peace on earth,
00:55:01.20\00:55:09.24
and let it begin with me.
00:55:09.27\00:55:17.95
Let there be peace on earth,
00:55:19.21\00:55:27.09
the peace that was meant to be.
00:55:27.12\00:55:35.10
With God as our Father,
00:55:36.50\00:55:44.17
brothers all are we.
00:55:45.37\00:55:52.11
Let me walk with my brother
00:55:53.52\00:56:00.19
in perfect harmony.
00:56:01.46\00:56:08.26
Let peace begin with me,
00:56:10.43\00:56:18.34
let this be the moment now.
00:56:19.17\00:56:25.81
And with every step I take,
00:56:27.62\00:56:35.99
let this be my solemn vow.
00:56:36.19\00:56:43.50
I want to take each moment
00:56:44.30\00:56:49.00
and live each moment
00:56:49.20\00:56:53.24
in peace eternally.
00:56:53.27\00:57:01.52
Let there be peace on earth,
00:57:01.98\00:57:09.49
and let it begin
00:57:09.52\00:57:17.43
with me.
00:57:19.67\00:57:29.41
Thank you so much, Paul
and Mark, for being with us.
00:57:35.62\00:57:40.06
And thank you for
joining us on the Dare to Dream
00:57:40.09\00:57:42.96
Christmas special.
00:57:42.99\00:57:44.33
From all of us here
at 3ABN, Dare to Dream,
00:57:44.36\00:57:47.40
we wish you a very blessed
Christmas and a happy New Year.
00:57:47.60\00:57:51.17
And remember, Jesus is
the reason for the season.
00:57:51.20\00:57:56.20