Participants: Pr. Stephen Bohr
Series Code: 24ELD
Program Code: 24ELD000003
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00:34 Good evening! Its good to see all of you here.
00:38 We are going to have a word of prayer, and then I'll tell you 00:41 where we're going to go in our next three studies. 00:43 Let's bow our heads. 00:44 Father in heaven, what a privilege it is to call You 00:47 Father. We thank You so much that we have the privilege 00:51 of being Your children. 00:52 And we ask that this evening Your Holy Spirit will be with us 00:56 to guide our thoughts, and to open our hearts. 00:59 We're going to study a complex subject, 01:02 and we need understanding. 01:03 We need clear minds. 01:05 We just ask that through Your Holy Spirit You will make it 01:08 possible for us to understand. 01:10 And we thank You, Father, for the privilege of prayer. 01:13 Thank You for hearing us, for we ask it in Jesus' name. Amen. 01:17 In the first two sermons in this series we studied about the 01:24 mission of Jesus on Earth. 01:26 The title of that presentation was Mission Accomplished. 01:30 And then in our study, our last study, we dealt with the 01:35 ascension of Jesus Christ to the holy place in heaven. 01:39 And the title of that presentation was 01:42 The Return of the War Hero. 01:44 Now during the next three studies together we are going 01:48 to deal with a specific topic. 01:51 We're going to deal with the specific group that was present 01:53 there when Jesus arrived; a group that is called 01:57 in scripture the twenty-four elders. 02:01 Now I need to make something very clear as we begin our 02:04 study. And that is that you need to be here for all three 02:08 studies, because we're going to have a lot of loose ends until 02:13 at the very end we tie all of these loose ends together. 02:17 And then everything will make sense. 02:20 If you come just to the presentation today, 02:24 you're going to have part of the picture. 02:26 But if you come to all three, you're going to have the full 02:29 picture, and I can guarantee that you're going to understand 02:34 this topic very, very well. 02:36 Now in our last study we noticed that when Jesus ascended 02:40 to heaven the heavenly throne room had been prepared 02:44 before His arrival. 02:46 We saw that God the Father was sitting on His throne. 02:49 Also in the midst of the throne were four living creatures 02:54 representing the seraphim and the cherubim. 02:56 Surrounding the throne we noticed that there was a group 03:00 called the twenty-four elders. 03:02 And before the throne were the seven spirits representing 03:06 the fullness of the Holy Spirit. 03:08 Then later in chapter 5, when Jesus arrives, 03:11 then you have Jesus in the scene, and you also have the 03:14 angelic hosts who had gone to Earth to pick up Jesus 03:18 to take Him to heaven. 03:19 Now the specific group that we want to study about is that 03:23 group called the twenty-four elders. 03:25 Now the traditional view that is held, 03:28 especially in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 03:31 in almost every single publication that I have read, 03:33 is that the twenty-four elders represent those that resurrected 03:39 with Jesus, that Jesus took to heaven upon His ascension, 03:43 and He presented to His Father as the first fruits of the great 03:47 harvest that will take place at the second coming of those 03:51 who died in Christ. 03:52 In other words, they were a little sample, 03:55 or a small guarantee, that the rest of those who died in Christ 04:00 would resurrect when Jesus would return in power and glory. 04:03 Now we need to ask the question, does this interpretation square 04:09 with what is taught in scripture, as well as in the 04:13 Spirit of Prophecy, because our authority is number one 04:16 scripture. And then we go to the Spirit of Prophecy to see if the 04:20 Spirit of Prophecy squares with what is taught in scripture. 04:23 And we're going to find that both of these sources are 04:26 in perfect harmony. 04:28 Now let's go in our Bibles as we begin our study, 04:31 to Job 38, and let's read verses 4 through 7. Job 38:4-7. 04:37 Here God is asking Job a series of questions, and it says this: 04:56 God says, somewhat sarcastically. 05:07 So what event is being described in these verses? 05:11 There's no doubt that its referring to the creation story 05:16 in Genesis, chapter 1, and Genesis, chapter 2. 05:19 But now notice what happened at creation. 05:21 It says at the last part of this passage, when the morning stars 05:27 sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy. 05:33 Interesting! We're told that at creation, when this world 05:37 was created, the morning stars sang together, and all the sons 05:43 of God shouted for joy. 05:44 This is taking place at creation week. 05:47 In other words, these beings were present when God created 05:52 this world, which means that they existed before the creation 05:57 of this world. They pre-existed creation in other words. 06:01 Now we need to understand that here the expression, 06:05 morning stars, and the expression, sons of God, 06:08 are really synonymous. 06:10 These are not two different groups. 06:12 They are the same group described in two different ways. 06:15 In Hebrew poetry you have what is called 06:19 synonymous parallelism, where what is said in the first line 06:23 is repeated in the second line, but in different words 06:27 the same thought. 06:28 So when we're told here that the morning stars sang together, 06:32 and all the sons of God shouted for joy, the morning stars, 06:36 and the sons of God, are the same group, 06:38 but they're described in different language 06:41 or different terms. 06:43 Now lets talk a little bit about the identity of the morning 06:47 stars and the sons of God. 06:49 When we look at scripture there's no doubt whatsoever 06:53 that stars represent angels. 06:57 This is very, very clear. 06:58 For example, in Revelation, chapter 12, and verse 3, 07:02 where we're told that the dragon drew a third of the stars 07:06 of heaven with his tail. 07:07 And then a little bit later, in verse 9, we're told that the 07:12 devil was cast out of heaven with his angels. 07:15 In other words, the stars that he drew with his tail represent 07:20 the angels that decided to follow him in his rebellion. 07:24 In other words, the morning stars represent angels. 07:29 Now it's interesting to notice that Ellen White explains 07:34 that the sons of God are angels. 07:38 So what we're seeing is that the Bible defines the morning stars 07:43 as angels. Ellen White describes the sons of God as angels. 07:47 That's why I'm saying that really its the same group, 07:50 but with two different names. 07:52 Notice The Great Controversy, page 519, where Ellen White 07:57 describes what happened in Job 1 and 2. 08:00 Do you remember that the sons of God came to present themselves 08:03 before the Lord? Notice how she describes this. 08:18 Now interesting. In the book of Job it says that the sons 08:21 of God came to present themselves before the Lord. 08:23 Ellen White here says that... 08:45 So we find that Ellen White identifies the sons of God 08:50 as angels, and scripture speaks of the stars as angels. 08:55 Now we're going to go in a few moments to Job 1 and 2 08:59 where this same expression, sons of God, is used. 09:04 But before we do, I need to give you a word of explanation. 09:08 A question that always comes up when I've dealt with the issue 09:12 of the twenty-four elders is concerning Genesis, chapter 6, 09:17 where it says that the sons of God saw that the daughters 09:21 of men were beautiful. 09:22 And so scholars say the sons of God are angels. 09:26 And so what this means is that before the flood the angels, 09:31 called the sons of God, had sexual relations with human 09:34 women, with the daughters of men, 09:36 and this relationship produced the giants, or a hybrid that was 09:41 part human and part angel. 09:44 And, of course, they say, you know, if the sons of God in Job 09:48 are angels, well, the same expression should mean the same 09:52 thing in Genesis, chapter 6. 09:54 And that sounds very logical. 09:56 However, terms and expressions need to be understood within 10:01 the context that they are used. 10:03 The expression does not always means the same thing. 10:07 It can mean different things in different contexts. 10:09 Let me give you an example. 10:11 What does a lion represent in scripture? 10:14 If I asked you that question, I believe that I would have 10:17 several answers. Can a lion represent Jesus Christ? 10:21 Absolutely! He's the Lion of the tribe of Judah. 10:24 Can a lion represent the devil? 10:27 He goes forth as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. 10:31 Can a lion represent the kingdom of Babylon? 10:34 Absolutely! In Daniel chapter 7. 10:37 Can a lion represent Judah, the son of Jacob? 10:40 Absolutely! And so lion doesn't mean the same thing in every 10:44 context. You have to respect the context. 10:47 Then you also have leaven. 10:49 When I ask, what does leaven, or yeast represent? 10:51 The people say, Oh, it represents sin. 10:53 And that's true, but it doesn't always represent sin, 10:55 because in the parable that Jesus gave of the leaven, 10:59 Jesus speaks of putting the leaven in the dough, 11:02 and it makes the dough grow. 11:03 Now what is Jesus saying? 11:05 He's saying that when the Holy Spirit is in the church 11:08 represented by the loaf, the church grows 11:12 just like the lump of dough grows. 11:14 And so the leaven can represent also the Holy Spirit. 11:18 And so let's not jump to conclusions that just because 11:21 sons of God is used in Job, and it refers to angels, 11:25 that it has the same meaning in Genesis, chapter 6. 11:28 Actually, if you look at the context of Genesis, chapter 6, 11:33 you're going to find that the sons of God has a different 11:35 meaning. Immediately before Genesis, chapter 6, 11:38 you have in chapter 4 the wicked descendents of Cain. 11:43 And there are three evil women in his genealogy. 11:47 Those would be the daughters of men. 11:49 In chapter 5 you have the descendents of Seth. 11:53 That is the lineage of the righteous. 11:57 And then in the very next verse, Genesis 6, verse 1, 12:00 as well as verse 2, it speaks about the sons of God 12:04 and the daughters of men. 12:06 The context indicates that the sons of God are the righteous 12:10 descendents of Seth, whereas the daughters of men are the 12:13 wicked women mentioned in the genealogy of Cain. 12:17 So the context must dictate the meaning. 12:20 Incidentally, in scripture Adam is called the son of God, 12:25 in Luke 3. And we know that Adam was not an angel. 12:31 Right? And yet he's called the son of God. 12:33 So we see that son of God, or sons of God, 12:36 has different meanings in different contexts. 12:38 Do you know that the apostle Paul refers to the righteous 12:42 as sons of God? Notice Romans 8 and verse 14. Romans 8:14. 12:50 Here the apostle Paul says: 12:59 So I suppose that every believer is an angel. 13:02 Of course not! The expression, son of God, 13:05 represents the righteous; those who have accepted Jesus Christ; 13:08 those who are led by the Spirit just like the descendents 13:12 of Seth. Are you with me? 13:13 So I needed to clear this up, even though we're digressing 13:17 from the central theme that we're studying, because I know 13:20 that if I don't touch upon it, we're going to receive lots 13:22 of phone calls, and we're going to receive lots of e-mails 13:25 saying, Yeah, but what about Genesis chapter 6? 13:27 So I decided that I would clarify this. 13:29 Now let's go to two other places in Job where the expression, 13:35 sons of God is used. Go with me to Job, chapter 1, 13:39 and verses 6 and 7. Remember we already looked at Job 38, 13:43 and verses 4 through 7, where it speaks about creation, 13:45 and it tells us that the sons of God, the morning stars sang 13:49 when God created this world, which means that they existed 13:52 before creation. And they actually witnessed creation. 14:23 Now there are several things that I want us to notice about 14:26 these two verses in Job 1, verses 6 and 7. 14:29 First of all, the sons of God do not always dwell in the presence 14:34 of God, because we're told in this passage that a certain day 14:39 they came to present themselves before the Lord. 14:42 In other words, they don't dwell where the Lord is. 14:45 They're invited to come on certain days to be present 14:49 before the Lord. Another thing that I want us to notice is 14:53 that Satan felt that he had a perfect right to belong to that 14:57 group, because Satan comes not with them, but he comes among 15:03 the sons of God. So he's saying, I have a perfect right to belong 15:07 to this group. Satan came among these sons of God, a certain day 15:13 from somewhere, because they came; they were not there. 15:17 Another thing that we notice here is that when God asks Satan 15:22 where he came from, Satan answered, I have come from 15:27 the Earth. Now the Earth is a planet, right? 15:31 The devil is saying, I have come among the sons of God, 15:34 and my planet, that I represent, is planet Earth. 15:39 Would it be too much of an exaggeration to believe that 15:42 the other sons of God represented other worlds 15:46 in the universe of God? 15:47 If Satan comes to that meeting representing a planet, 15:51 what would make us think that the other sons of God are not 15:55 coming also representing what? 15:58 Representing the planets that they came from. 16:01 Now let's go to Job, chapter 2, ad verses 1 and 2. 16:05 This will get clearer and clearer as we go along. 16:08 You know, we're just introducing this subject, but we're going to 16:11 study some amazing things in our study today as well 16:14 as in the next two periods that we're going to spend together. 16:17 Job 2, verses 1 and 2. This is a second meeting that takes place 16:23 in heaven where the sons of God are invited to come. 16:27 Notice what it says in Job 2, verse 1. 16:45 Came whom? Satan. And now notice: 17:02 Now let's take a look at this. 17:04 Do the same principles apply to this second meeting 17:09 as to the first meeting? Absolutely! 17:11 Did the sons of God leave and go back to where they came from 17:15 after the first meeting? 17:17 Of course! They must have, because it says that again they 17:21 came. Which means that if again they came, they must have left 17:25 after the first meeting. Are you with me or not? 17:27 To wherever they came from. 17:29 Satan came from where? 17:31 He came from planet Earth. 17:33 And after the meeting where does he go? 17:35 He returns to planet Earth to afflict Job with boils 17:41 from the tip of his head, to the bottom of his feet. 17:44 So, in other words, these sons of God, they come to present 17:49 themselves before the Lord. 17:50 After the meeting takes place they return to where they came 17:54 from. They do not permanently live in the presence of God. 17:59 They come from planets, if you please. 18:02 Now do you know, that God operates the universe 18:06 in a democratic fashion? 18:09 God has a representative style of government, 18:14 where representatives from the different worlds in the universe 18:17 come together to deliberate, and come together to make 18:21 decisions concerning the administration, 18:24 and the operation of the universe. 18:26 Let me give you another example from scripture. 18:30 Go with me to 2 Chronicles, chapter 18, and verses 18 to 22. 18:35 This is a powerful passage. 18:36 You remember that in the days of king Ahab, Ahab had a meeting 18:41 with Jehoshaphat. Ahab was the king of the ten tribes of the 18:44 north, and Jehoshaphat was a king of the two tribes of the 18:47 south, known as Judah. 18:48 And they had this family reunion in the city of Samaria. 18:52 And Jehoshaphat was a good king, and Ahab was a bad king. 18:57 And so Ahab says to Jehoshaphat, you know, now that you're here, 19:01 don't you think it would be a good idea for us to go and fight 19:04 against our common enemy, the Syrians? 19:06 And Jehoshaphat says, you know that might be a good idea. 19:10 Don't you think we should consult the Lord? 19:12 Do you have any prophets around? 19:14 And Ahab says, oh prophets, I've got prophets galore. 19:19 And so he calls 400 prophets that he had. 19:22 And he says to his 400 prophets, now Jehoshaphat and I want to go 19:27 fight against the Syrians, our common enemy. 19:29 Do you think that's a good idea? 19:31 And, of course, the 400 prophets, they were false 19:34 prophets, said, oh, yes, king. 19:35 Go to battle and you're going to gain a great victory. 19:38 But Jehoshaphat wasn't too convinced. 19:42 And so he says, now ah, Ahab, don't you have a prophet 19:47 of the Lord around? And the king, king Ahab says, yeah, 19:53 I've got him, but he's in the dungeon. 19:56 And because every time I ask him to prophesy he prophesies evil, 20:01 and so I've thrown him into the dungeon. 20:05 And Jehoshaphat says, that's God's prophet! 20:08 That's where God's prophets live. 20:10 They live in prison, and they're hated, and so bring him. 20:13 And so Micaiah comes before Ahab. 20:18 And Ahab says, should we go to battle against the Syrians? 20:22 And I want you to notice what Micaiah answers; 20:26 the name of the prophet. 20:27 It says there in 2 Chronicles 18, verses 18 to 22: 20:52 By the way, who is the host of heaven? 20:55 All of the angelic host, right? 21:06 In other words, who's going to convince Ahab to go to battle 21:09 so that he gets killed? Now listen to what happens. 21:18 You know, everybody had their suggestion in the heavenly 21:22 council. And now notice what happens, verse 20. 21:32 This is a meeting happening in heaven, 21:34 but it has to do with earthly events. 21:48 Do you think that was a good angel, a loyal angel that says, 21:52 I'll go out and I'll lie so that Ahab goes to battle 21:56 and gets killed? Absolutely not! 21:58 God does not use lying to accomplish His purposes. 22:02 Who was this being that was there in the heavenly council 22:05 that says, I'll go and I'll deceive him to go to battle 22:09 so that he gets killed? 22:10 Who do you think that lying spirit was? 22:12 It was Satan! The same one that went there in Job, chapter 1, 22:17 to the heavenly council. 22:18 And you're saying, what was he doing there? 22:20 We'll come to that. Now do you know that when God makes 22:24 decisions regarding this world, or any other world 22:27 in the universe, God calls the heavenly council together? 22:29 God is not a dictator. 22:32 God is not an autocrat. 22:35 God doesn't simply say, I'll do it all, and this is the way 22:39 we're going to do it. 22:40 God consults the representatives of the universe. 22:43 Let me read to you from Patriarchs and Prophets, 22:45 page 36. This is when Lucifer had these jealous feelings 22:50 towards Christ. We're told: 22:55 That's council, it's not talking about counseling. 23:02 It's talking like City Council, in other words, 23:05 when the devil laid his strategy to tempt Adam and Eve 23:14 and lead them into sin. In the book, Story of Redemption, 23:18 page 29, we find this interesting statement: 23:29 That is of Adam and Eve falling into sin. Notice: 23:49 So everything concerning the operation and administration 23:53 of the universe is decided in the heavenly council. 23:56 And God, of course, presides in the heavenly council. 24:00 So what is being described in Job, chapters 1 and 2, 24:04 is the heavenly council. 24:06 And those who appear there are the representatives of all 24:10 of the sinless realms that God created; 24:13 the representatives of the worlds that never sinned. 24:16 Now how does Ellen White identify the twenty-four elders? 24:23 Who are they? Who are the sons of God, and the morning stars 24:27 according to the Spirit of Prophecy? 24:29 In The Desire of Ages, in a statement that we read in our 24:33 last study together, Ellen White clearly identifies who the sons 24:39 of God are. Remember, the sons of God are angels, right? 24:43 According to her definition the sons of God are angels. 24:45 But now she's going to amplify what that means; 24:49 who the sons of God are. 24:51 When Jesus arrives in heaven we're told 24:55 who was present there. She says: 25:09 Notice what she says, the sons of God, the commanders of the 25:16 angel hosts, the representatives of the unfallen worlds. 25:20 Three phrases that are describing the same group 25:22 are assembled. And then she says this: 25:42 Interesting statement! So the sons of God are the commanders 25:48 of the angel hosts. They're the highest of angels. 25:50 They're powerful angels. 25:52 They are the representatives of the worlds that never sinned. 25:55 In other words, the worlds are represented by powerful angels 25:59 that God has placed to rule over them. 26:01 Now, the question comes up. 26:05 So you're saying that there are other inhabited worlds 26:09 in the universe? Absolutely! 26:12 The Bible has many hints to that effect. 26:16 Let me give you just one text that indicates that, 26:20 and then I'm going to read you a quotation from Billy Graham, 26:23 probably the most famous preacher that exists. 26:28 He's well known in the whole world. 26:29 Now notice what it says in Revelation 12:12. 26:39 Did you notice that? Rejoice what? 26:57 So notice, it says here, Rejoice oh heavens and you who dwell 27:01 in them. So there's inhabitants that dwell 27:05 in all of the heavens, according to this text. 27:08 Now Billy Graham, so that you know that this is not just a 27:11 preposterous idea that Pastor Stephen Bohr has, 27:14 notice what he had to say. 27:55 So Billy Graham is saying, I believe that there are many 27:58 worlds in the universe that are populated. They are inhabited. 28:03 But listen up! None of them have sinned except for this planet; 28:08 planet Earth. Now Ellen White then identifies the sons of God 28:14 as the commanders of the angel hosts, 28:16 and as the representatives of the unfallen worlds. 28:21 Now I want to read you some additional statements 28:24 from Ellen White that shows that the elders are really 28:27 angels. Now let me ask you, If the elders are really angels, 28:31 can the twenty-four elders be those who resurrected 28:35 with Christ? those human beings who resurrected with Christ? 28:38 It would be impossible. 28:39 Now Revelation, chapter 5, verse 5. 28:42 Notice, John is weeping because no one is worthy to open 28:48 the scroll. And no one is worthy to read the contents 28:52 of the scroll. And we're told in Revelation 5, verse 5 28:56 that one of the twenty-four elders comes to John 29:01 to console him. Let me read that text. 29:20 Who was it that spoke those words, don't weep, 29:22 behold the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, 29:25 has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals? 29:28 It says in Revelation 5, verse 5, that it was one of the 29:30 elders. Now notice what Ellen White had to say about this 29:35 in Manuscript Releases, Volume 12, and pages 296 and 297. 29:41 This is powerful. She's speaking about the same event, 29:45 and this is how she describes it. 30:42 Are you understanding why I'm bringing this to view? 30:44 Revelation 5, verse 5, says that it was whom? One of the elders. 30:50 Ellen White says the same words were spoken by one of the strong 30:56 angels. Now let me give you another example. 31:00 This one is from Revelation chapter 7. 31:03 You're aware that Revelation chapter 7 describes 31:06 a great multitude which no one can number, from every nation, 31:11 tribe, tongue, and people. 31:13 That's found in Revelation, chapter 7, and verse 9. 31:16 The great multitude, which no one can number, 31:19 from every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, 31:21 is introduced there in verse 9. 31:23 And John, of course, wants to know who this group is. 31:27 And so we find in verse 13 that it tells us: 31:44 In other words, who is this great multitude that no one 31:48 can number, is what the elder is asking John. 31:51 Then I want you to notice that John replies to the elder's 31:56 question by saying: 32:00 This is verse 14. 32:02 And then the elder says to John, this is in verse 15: 32:17 Now who is John entertaining a conversation with? 32:21 With one of the what? 32:22 With one of the elders. 32:23 John and the elder are conversing, 32:26 and they're conversing about the great multitude. 32:29 Is the elder a part of the great multitude? 32:31 He is not, because the elder is actually asking about 32:36 the great multitude. 32:37 He is not part of the great multitude from every nation, 32:41 kindred, tongue, and people. 32:42 Is that clear in your mind? 32:44 Now, you say, why do you bring this to view? 32:46 Because I want you to notice how Ellen White interprets this. 32:50 In Sings of the Times, December 22, 1887, Ellen White describes 32:58 this same scene in these words: 33:22 What does Revelation say? 33:25 Who asked that question? 33:26 The elder! According to Ellen White who asked the question? 33:31 The angel, whom she has already identified as one of the strong 33:37 angels already. She continues saying: 34:00 And so Revelation says that was one of the elders, 34:04 and Ellen White says that it was one of the angels 34:08 who is describing this. 34:10 Now I want you to remember this point because we're going to 34:14 come back to it in the next two lectures. 34:17 Because there's a problem in translation in Revelation 5, 34:22 verses 9 and 10. You get the impression there that the 34:26 twenty-four elders were redeemed from the earth, 34:29 and they're going to reign on the earth, 34:30 which would give the impression that they're humans. 34:33 Actually, we're going to find that there's a problem in 34:37 translation here because the elders, we've already noticed, 34:41 are not part of the great multitude that no one can 34:44 number. I want you to save this in the corner of your mind, 34:47 because we're going to come back to it a little bit later. 34:49 Now, two more quotations from Ellen White. 34:53 This one is found in a book called, Sermons and Talks, 34:56 Volume 1, page 20. She says this, and she's also still 35:02 discussing Revelation, chapter 7. 35:17 The angel said, notice. 35:43 Once again, three times in this statement Ellen White says, 35:47 even though Revelation says it was one of the elders, 35:49 Ellen White says, the angel asked him, the angel said, 35:53 says the angel. In the mind of Ellen G. White, the elders are 35:59 powerful angels. Now notice one other statement. 36:03 This is found in Signs of the Times, November 22, 1905. 36:07 Speaking once again about Revelation, chapter 7: 36:22 Now notice! 36:35 I mean, if Ellen White had only one little statement where she 36:38 said an angel, that would be one thing, but she has several 36:40 statements where she says that the elder that spoke was one 36:44 of the strong angels among the heavenly hosts. 36:47 Now in Revelation, chapter 5, and verse 8, we're told that the 36:52 living creatures, and the twenty-four elders play harps. 36:57 And they present the prayers of the saints before the throne 37:01 of God. The elders and the four living creatures, 37:04 we're told there in Revelation 5, verse 8, that they actually 37:07 present the prayers of the saints before the throne 37:10 of God in bowls of incense. 37:13 Now Ellen White is going to comment on this verse, 37:18 Revelation 5 and verse 8. 37:20 And I want you to notice what she says about these beings 37:24 that offer the prayers of the saints before the throne of God. 37:27 This is in the devotional book, Lift Him Up, page 307. She says: 37:44 What does she say heavenly beings are appointed to what? 37:48 To answer prayers. But then she says who these beings are. 37:52 Its not just any old being, any old heavenly being, 37:57 because she says: 38:24 So in the mind of Ellen White the twenty-four elders are, 38:28 according to her terms, strong angels, and according to this 38:34 text, the highest of angels. 38:37 So my question is, are the twenty-four elders those that 38:42 Jesus presented before the Father forty days after 38:46 His resurrection? It's impossible because they were not 38:50 angels. They were human beings. 38:52 Now we need to answer the question, why was Satan among 38:58 the Sons of God in that meeting in Job chapter 2? 39:01 I think you already know the answer. 39:03 But let's go in scripture to Luke 4, and verses 5 and 6. 39:09 Luke, chapter 4, and verses 5 and 6 is going to explain why 39:13 in the Old Testament, that is until the death of Jesus Christ, 39:17 why, when there was a heavenly counsel, like the one mentioned 39:20 in Chronicles, and the one mentioned in Job, 39:22 it says that Satan went among the Sons of God, 39:26 that is the highest of angels, the strongest angels. 39:29 The devil goes among that group and he presents himself before 39:33 the heavenly council. Why? 39:35 Luke 4:5 and 6, speaking about the temptation of Jesus 39:40 on the mount, it says: 39:49 To whom did these kingdoms belong at first? 39:52 To whom did the kingdoms belong? 39:56 They belonged to Adam! But now notice what the devil says. 40:24 Did the devil claim that this was his? 40:25 He claimed it was his. Who gave it to him? 40:29 He says, Its been delivered to me. 40:30 Who delivered it to him? 40:31 Adam delivered it to him. 40:33 Who would have been in that heavenly council meeting 40:37 if Adam had not given in to the tempter? 40:40 Adam would have been there in the heavenly council 40:43 representing planet Earth. 40:45 But the Bible tells us that the devil stole Adam's throne. 40:48 He stole Adam's territory, and therefore he says, 40:52 I now represent planet Earth. 40:54 And that's the reason why he appeared in the heavenly council 40:57 in Chronicles as well as in the book of Job. 41:00 Satan stole the legitimate position of Adam, 41:07 the original representative of planet Earth. 41:09 In fact Jesus, you know, shortly before His death, He says, 41:13 now is the judgment of this world. 41:15 Now the ruler of this world will be what? cast out! 41:19 And He was talking about the cross. 41:21 So Jesus Himself is saying, before His death, 41:24 that the devil is the ruler of this world, 41:27 because we become slaves of him who we choose to obey. 41:32 Adam chose to obey the devil, and so now from being lord, 41:37 from occupying the throne, from having the crown, 41:39 Adam now becomes the servant, and he becomes the slave 41:43 of the one who conquered him, as we've studied before. 41:46 Now we need to transition. 41:50 Why do all of the worlds of the universe have strong angels, 41:56 or the highest of the angels representing them, 42:00 while planet Earth was represented by Adam? 42:06 Are you understanding my question? 42:08 Wouldn't we expect God also to place a powerful, or the highest 42:13 of angels to represent planet Earth? 42:15 Why did God do something different with this Earth, 42:18 and have someone from the human race represent planet Earth, 42:21 and not one of the strong, or powerful angels? 42:24 The answer is that God's plan for the human race 42:29 was a different plan than for any other world that God created 42:34 in the universe. You see, the worlds are represented by strong 42:40 angels, or by the highest of angels, as is going to become 42:45 clearer and clearer. But the purpose for the creation of this 42:49 world was different than the creation of any other world 42:54 in the universe. And you say, how do you know that? 42:57 Sons and Daughters of God, page 7. 43:01 In this devotional book, Ellen White explains that this world 43:06 had a different type of being than every other world 43:11 in the universe. This is what she says: 43:21 Notice, all heaven is interested in what's taking place on Earth. 43:25 She says: 43:33 They were a new and distinct order. 43:36 They were made in the image of God. 43:39 And, listen carefully, and it was the Creator's design 43:43 that they should populate the earth. 43:56 Was this order a distinct order? 43:58 Was it different than any other planet in the universe? 44:01 Yes. She says this was a new and a distinct order, 44:05 and the idea was that man would do what? 44:07 He would populate the what? 44:09 He would populate the Earth. 44:11 Now the question is, what would be the purpose of populating 44:15 the Earth? Is it possible that the other worlds do not have 44:18 procreation? That God established procreation on this 44:23 world for a very specific purpose? 44:26 The Bible tells us that man was created a little lower 44:30 than the angels. That after man would pass the test of being 44:36 loyal to God, God would use the human race to repopulate 44:43 the vacancies that were left in heaven by Satan and his angels. 44:47 Now you're saying, Wow! Is that in the Bible? 44:51 Hold on! You're going to see it. 44:53 First of all, allow me to read The Truth About Angels, 44:56 page 48 and 49. The Truth About Angels, 48 and 49, 45:00 where Ellen White explicitly states that this was God's 45:03 purpose in establishing procreation on this earth. 45:06 This is the earth that has procreation. 45:09 It has marriage, and the purpose of marriage, which the devil has 45:13 destroyed, to a great degree, is to prepare a group of people 45:17 to take the places that were left vacant by the fall of Satan 45:21 and his angels. This is what Ellen White says: 45:30 Notice, after they passed the: 45:47 What does it mean to repopulate? 45:50 Were there vacancies left in heaven? 45:53 Yes! She says it was God's purpose to repopulate heaven. 45:58 Now you say, well, that was before sin. 46:00 What about after sin? 46:01 Was it still God's plan to repopulate heaven? 46:03 Listen to this statement. 46:05 Prophets and Kings, and then we're going to go to the Bible. 46:07 Prophets and Kings, page 588 and 589. She says: 46:32 And now notice what he says to God. 46:44 Interesting! Are you understanding what he's saying? 46:49 Are these the ones that are going to take my place, 46:51 and the place of the angels that fell from heaven? 46:54 That's Prophets and Kings, 588 and 589. 46:57 Notice, Story of Redemption, page 19. 47:00 She mentions this many times. 47:02 Story of Redemption, page 19. She says: 47:15 This is after Lucifer sinned. 47:16 God says, Should We go ahead? 47:18 Yes, Let's go ahead with the plan. 47:20 She continues saying: 47:49 What would happen with man if he passed the test and the trial? 47:53 He would become equal with what? 47:55 With the angels! He was created a little lower than the angels 48:00 according to Psalm 8, but if he passed the test of the trial, 48:04 we're told here that he would be equal with the angels. 48:09 One more statement then we'll go to the Bible. 48:12 The Truth About Angels, page 49. 48:14 This is so clear that nobody can misunderstand what Ellen White 48:17 is saying. She says: 48:28 I mean how could she be clearer? 48:30 She says, the vacancies made in heaven by the fall of Satan 48:33 and his angels will be filled by the redeemed of the Lord. 48:37 And so people ask, they say, well, all you're doing is 48:39 reading Ellen White. So far! 48:43 But now let's go and see if scripture says the same thing; 48:49 if Ellen White is in harmony with scripture. 48:51 Go with me to Luke, chapter 20, and verses 34 to 36. 48:56 Luke, chapter 20, and verses 34 to 36. 48:59 Jesus is entertaining a conversation with the Sadducees. 49:04 The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection of the dead, 49:09 and so they present this hypothetical case of this 49:13 individual who was married seven times. 49:16 Who would the spouse be when the resurrection took place? 49:20 In other words, they're ridiculing the idea that there's 49:23 going to be a resurrection by giving this extreme case. 49:26 Now notice Luke 20, 34 to 36, how Jesus answers. 49:38 What does this age mean? This world, right? 49:52 What is that age? The new earth, right? 50:02 Why is there not going to be any marriage? 50:04 Because the purpose of marriage has been what? fulfilled. 50:09 Luke continues saying, quoting Jesus once again, 50:15 but those were accounted worthy to attain that age, 50:23 Now listen carefully. 50:27 Wow! They are equal to what? 50:30 To the angels! Is that what Ellen White said? 50:33 Absolutely! But there's more. 50:44 Are you catching the picture here? 50:46 Four conclusions that we can reach from this answer of Jesus: 50:50 1. Marriage had a specific purpose in this age. 50:55 And that purpose was what? procreation. 50:58 2. There will be no marriage in the world to come, 51:02 because the purpose of marriage has been fulfilled. 51:05 3. In the world to come the redeemed will be equal 51:09 to the angels, as we read from Ellen White. 51:12 4. The redeemed will be called Sons of God. 51:16 The same name that is given in the book of Job. 51:19 Now let's conclude by reading a powerful statement 51:23 from Ellen White. This is found in the book, Medical Ministry, 51:27 page 99. And this will be our concluding thought. 51:31 Have you learned anything new tonight? 51:33 There's a lot of stuff in scripture that, perhaps, 51:37 we haven't seen before. And this is only one of the three. 51:40 See, this will give you just a piece of the puzzle. 51:42 Now you need to come to the two other pieces, 51:45 so that you have a complete picture. 51:46 This is what she says: 51:58 There are individuals who say what? 52:02 That there will be marriages and births in the new earth. 52:24 Is there going to be procreation established in the new earth? 52:29 Absolutely not! Why not? 52:31 Because the purpose of procreation has been fulfilled. 52:34 The vacancies left by the devil and his angels have been what? 52:39 Have been filled! She continues saying: 52:47 Those are the words that we just read from the gospel of Luke. 53:13 Powerful statement! Is what she is saying Biblical? 53:18 Absolutely Biblical! And I'll tell you something. 53:22 I'll just testify to this. 53:24 There are many people who are critical of Ellen White. 53:28 They say, oh no, you Adventists, you go by what Ellen White says, 53:32 but we go by what the Bible says. 53:34 Well, surprise, surprise! If you really sat down with an open 53:40 mind, and a sincere heart, and you read the writings 53:43 of Ellen White, and you searched in scripture for what she says, 53:48 you would always find it, because her writings are in 53:52 harmony with scripture. It's only a misinterpretation of her 53:56 writings that leads people to think that what she wrote, 54:00 under inspiration, was contrary to what the scriptures say. 54:03 You know, I find that there are two different kinds of people 54:06 that criticize Ellen White. 54:08 The first type are those that never read anything 54:12 that she wrote. There are plenty of those. 54:15 They go to the internet and they open these websites, 54:19 you know, that are critical of Ellen White. 54:21 Some of them are hateful, and they raise objections that, 54:24 by the way, have been answered by the White Estate with luxury 54:27 of detail. If you go to the White Estate website 54:30 all of these objections are answered. 54:32 But they bring them up and the novices who are unacquainted 54:35 with Ellen White, they read these criticisms of Ellen White, 54:38 and they say, oh, Adventists; they're a cult, 54:40 because Ellen White, you know, they have this prophet who 54:43 contradicts scripture. So one group are those individuals 54:47 who never read what Ellen White says. 54:50 The other group are those who read the writings of Ellen White 54:54 with the intention of criticizing. 54:57 Do you know that there are people who read the Bible 55:01 with the intention of criticizing the Bible? 55:03 in finding mistakes in the Bible? 55:05 If you go to the Bible you might find some mistakes of minor 55:09 details. But that does not effect my view of the 55:12 inspiration of the Bible. 55:13 The Bible has shown that it is beyond human reason 55:17 to have produced it. 55:18 Are there little insignificant details that might be a problem 55:22 in the Bible? Yes. If you let these things ruin your faith 55:25 I feel sorry for you. 55:27 But the Bible shows that it is trustworthy. 55:31 The same is true with Ellen G. White. 55:34 Her writings, folks, are trustworthy. 55:36 What we need to do is we need to sit down, read what she says, 55:40 and then do what I usually do, and that is now where does the 55:44 Bible say that? And so we go from her writings to the Bible. 55:48 Sometimes I'll go to the Bible and I'll read something that 55:51 I can't understand in the Bible, and I say, I wonder what 55:54 Ellen White has to say about this. 55:56 And so then I go to the writings of Ellen White, where she 55:59 comments on that verse, and she gives some light and some 56:03 understanding that I had not found in my study 56:05 of scripture. I say, oh, now I understand what the scripture 56:09 is saying. It works both ways. 56:11 You can go to scripture and then go to see what Ellen White says, 56:15 or you can go to Ellen White and then say, now wait a minute. 56:19 Is that found in the Bible? 56:20 And then you go to the Bible. 56:22 They work back and forth. 56:24 In other words, its not either or, it's both. 56:28 And folks, if we read the writings of Ellen White 56:32 with an open heart, you'll receive a tremendous blessing. 56:36 She's not contradicting scripture, for example, when she 56:38 says that the elders are strong and the highest of angels. 56:41 As we're going to continue studying, you're going to be 56:44 amazed as we continue studying these things at how 56:47 what Ellen White says is in perfect harmony with scripture. 56:51 So folks, we have a lot to study yet. 56:55 We still have two more lectures in this series. 56:58 Now next time, Lord willing, we're going to talk about Adam, 57:02 the original Son of God, that God placed upon this planet. 57:07 And then we're going to study about Jesus. 57:09 And we're going to look at the characteristics 57:12 of the twenty-four elders. 57:13 And we're going to see that those characteristics apply 57:17 to Adam before he sinned. 57:19 And they apply to Jesus Christ who reconquered the position 57:24 that Adam lost. So folks, don't miss the next exciting episode 57:29 in this series of presentations. |
Revised 2014-12-17