Welcome to 3ABN
Spring Camp Meeting 2017,
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Exposing the Counterfeit.
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Hello, and welcome
back to 3ABN Camp Meeting.
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We've been having a
wonderful time, haven't we?
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Amen.
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I'll tell you what,
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I felt the
anointing of the Holy Spirit
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this whole week but
we are winding down.
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We just have a
couple more sermons.
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And then afterwards
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we're going to have
little after glow we call it,
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little time of renewing
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our lives to the
Lord Jesus Christ.
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How many are thankful
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for what Jesus has done for you?
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And I just praise the Lord
for each and every one of you
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and for those of you at home,
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thank you for your love
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and your prayers
and financial support
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because without you,
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we couldn't take this
gospel to all the world.
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And all of you here, you
guys you're the die-hards,
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we call that 3ABN die-hard.
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Somebody said,
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"They're the ones that's
right on the frontlines."
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You're the one that's taken
these books and pass them out,
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those of you at
home that are doing
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that too they couldn't
make it and joining with 3ABN.
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Thank you because Jesus says
when this gospel of the kingdom
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goes into all the
world, guess what happens?
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The end comes which is
really the beginning, right?
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It was my privilege tonight
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to introduce
Pastor Doug Batchelor.
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And Doug is a household name,
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been on 3ABN for
well over 25 years,
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speaker director
of Amazing Facts.
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He's an author and speaker.
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And Doug as I would say,
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I can say this
through all the speakers
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that we've ever had on 3ABN.
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I'm sure we have seen thousands
and thousands of people,
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letters that
people have written us,
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emails over the years that said,
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"Thank you for 3ABN
and I came to the Lord
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through Pastor Doug Batchelor.
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Thousands of people
all around the world,
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and so we praise the
Lord for his ministry,
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for he and his wife
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for what they're
doing for Amazing Facts.
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And right after
Brother Tim Parton,
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I think we're
going to have to come out
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and to do special music for us.
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And right after that,
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the next voice
you'll hear is Pastor
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Doug Batchelor.
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I'm kind of homesick
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For a country
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To which I've never
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Been before
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No sad goodbyes
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Will there be spoken
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For time won't
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Anymore
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Beulah Land
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I'm longing for you
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And some day
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On thee I'll stand
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There my home
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Shall be eternal
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Beulah Land
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Sweet Beulah land
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I'm looking now
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Across the river
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To where my faith
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Shall end in sight
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There's just a few
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More days to labor
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Then I will take
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My heavenly flight
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Sing with me if you know.
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To Beulah Land
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I'm longing for you
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And some day
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On thee I'll stand
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There my home
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Shall be
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Eternal
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Beulah Land
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Sweet Beulah Land
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Beulah Land
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Amen.
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Amen. Thank you so much,
Tim. That was a beautiful song.
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Amen.
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Well, this is have been
a wonderful time together
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this week is gathering together
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with brothers and sisters
and hearing the Word of God.
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And it's just been a
joy, I was thinking about it.
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And I have been coming
to 3ABN for over 20 years.
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I remember Mitch
just met me backstage
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and prayed with me.
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I remember when
he would be show up,
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you know, I get in
late from California
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like one in the morning
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he'd be upstairs
in master control
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and he was sort of
the innkeeper also,
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he give me my key to
my little room upstairs
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and boy, things
have come a long way,
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I'll tell you.
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We didn't even know
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what the Internet was back then.
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But it's just so
exciting to be back.
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Almost every year we
do something with 3ABN,
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Amazing Facts and 3ABN partner.
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And this fall,
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we're going to be
doing another special program
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called Foundations of Faith.
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So I hope you'll be
watching for and praying
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for that event
it's November 3-11.
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And it's going to be up linked
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from the General
Conference world headquarters.
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It's going to
be very interesting
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right after October 31,
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the 500 year anniversary
of the Protestant Reformation.
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I understand some
interesting things
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are going to be
happening in Rome
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during that time.
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So I expect to have
something to talk about.
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So I already have
something to talk about.
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You know, after both
of the programs tonight,
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they were telling me
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that we're going
to gather together
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as they often do
during the camp meeting.
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And they said,
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"We're going to
have this so, Doug,
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make sure that you don't
forget that after your sermon
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we're going to
have an after glow."
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I said, "My
sermon tonight's on hell,
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what do you mean by that?"
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But it's actually not
directly after my sermon,
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but Pastor Rafferty will
preach and he'll make sure
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there's no confusion
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what our after
glow is all about.
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Our message tonight is dealing
with the subject of hell.
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And is hell a place
of unending torture?
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And this actually is
one of my favorite subjects
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because when I understood this,
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it enabled me to love God.
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And I will say more about that.
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But let me pray
with you before we begin.
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Loving Father,
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we are so thankful
for the truth of Your Word
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that helps us see
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who You are and
how we can love You.
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And we just pray right now
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that Your
Spirit will be present.
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I pray that my
mind will be clear,
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my sins forgiven and ultimately
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that it will be
Your voice that we hear.
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And we pray this
in Jesus' name, amen.
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Amen.
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It made me shudder
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when I saw the
news back in 2015,
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a Jordanian pilot
was either shot down
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or there was a
mechanical problem
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and he went down in Syria,
and he was captured by ISIS.
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Well, ISIS went through
the charade of pretending
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they were going to
do a prisoner exchange
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with this man and some prisoners
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that were held in Jordan.
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And it turns out
they had other plans.
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The man thought he
was going to be set free,
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and they brought him out,
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and they had him say
some kind of confession
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or something on tape,
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and they put
him in a metal cage,
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and they doused him with diesel
or gasoline not exactly sure,
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and then ISIS,
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if you don't
think they're wicked,
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they then rolled video
as they set it on fire.
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And, yeah, I was wondering
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whether or not I could
even share this with you.
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But the reason I'm
sharing it with you
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is anything natural within you
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unless you've got some
kind of sadistic problems,
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you would recoil at
the thought of somebody...
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I could not
even watch the video,
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I couldn't bring
myself to do that.
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I'm sure it
would cause nightmares.
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We're horrified by that.
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And we think that the
people that would do that,
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that would put
a person in a cage
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and burn them alive
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while they
videotape it, it's Satanic.
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Now with that in mind,
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what do you exactly think it is
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that most
Christians say about God?
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What is He going
to do to the lost?
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Is He going to burn them
for 10 minutes, 5 minutes?
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I don't even know how
long His sufferings lasted.
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Let's hope not long.
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No, they say that, "God
if you don't know Jesus,
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if you're born and you die lost.
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That He will then put
you in this place of torture
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where you will feel
00:11:09.46\00:11:10.83
the writhing flames
of brimstone and fire
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and burning all over
every nerve of your body
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in completely
indescribable agony.
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Not for 10 minutes, or 10 hours,
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or 10 days
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but for ever and ever
and call that justice.
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Now, I remember I used to go
to a couple of Catholic schools
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and that's where I was taught
you're good you go to heaven,
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you're bad you go to hell.
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And so what's hell?
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Well, it's a
place where you burn
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for ever and ever.
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And I thought,
now wait a second,
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you're telling me
everybody in the world
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since were all born
with this bent toward sin.
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And if we don't
figure out how to do it right
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that God is going to take
the objects of His creation.
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And for the sins of
maybe 50, 60, 70 years
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maybe 15 years burn
them through ceaseless ages.
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When I heard that, I thought,
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I don't think
00:12:09.66\00:12:10.99
I'd ever want to
serve a God like that.
00:12:11.03\00:12:14.93
So our subject today
is on trying to understand
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what is the
punishment of the wicked,
00:12:19.77\00:12:21.10
and actually I'll be sharing
00:12:21.14\00:12:22.47
with you the
good news about hell.
00:12:22.50\00:12:24.71
Matter of fact, I
might even tell you
00:12:24.74\00:12:26.07
the good news to
start with right now.
00:12:26.11\00:12:28.24
First of all the good news
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is no one is
burning in hell now.
00:12:29.64\00:12:31.38
Amen.
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I'm going to tell you
what I'm going to tell you
00:12:32.78\00:12:34.12
then I'll tell
you what I told you.
00:12:34.18\00:12:37.62
No one is burning in hell now,
00:12:37.65\00:12:39.59
no one is going to
burn there forever.
00:12:39.62\00:12:42.59
Hell fire will put sinners
out of their selfish misery.
00:12:42.62\00:12:46.66
Hell will purify the universe.
00:12:46.70\00:12:50.00
And the really good news
is, you don't need to go there.
00:12:50.03\00:12:54.60
Whenever I talk about this,
00:12:54.64\00:12:55.97
I'm surprised how
many people ask me
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a lot of questions afterward
00:12:57.54\00:13:00.78
and they don't ask me
near as many questions
00:13:00.81\00:13:02.71
about heaven
00:13:02.74\00:13:04.25
which makes me wonder
where they plan on going
00:13:04.28\00:13:07.25
because it seems like you
00:13:07.32\00:13:08.65
want to prepare more
for your destination.
00:13:08.68\00:13:12.72
All right, first question.
00:13:12.75\00:13:14.46
What two cities are given
in the Bible as an example
00:13:14.49\00:13:17.23
for the
destruction of the wicked?
00:13:17.26\00:13:20.40
It says here,
"Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:13:20.43\00:13:22.90
and the cities around them
in a similar manner to these,
00:13:22.93\00:13:26.17
having given themselves
over to sexual immorality
00:13:26.20\00:13:29.44
and going after
strange flesh..."
00:13:29.47\00:13:32.04
We talked about
that earlier today,
00:13:32.07\00:13:33.68
what that means?
00:13:33.74\00:13:35.08
"Are set forth as an example,
00:13:35.11\00:13:36.85
suffering the
vengeance of eternal fire."
00:13:36.91\00:13:40.82
And people are wondering,
00:13:40.88\00:13:42.22
well, there you
have it, Pastor Doug.
00:13:42.25\00:13:44.15
And I don't want to deny,
00:13:44.19\00:13:46.15
there are some
difficult passages
00:13:46.19\00:13:47.86
but I think they
are easy to explain.
00:13:47.89\00:13:50.53
And there are a
lot more passages
00:13:50.59\00:13:52.09
that make the subject clear.
00:13:52.13\00:13:54.66
And so you need to
weigh the preponderance
00:13:54.73\00:13:57.80
of evidence on this.
00:13:57.83\00:13:59.87
Now just to go back
to what the story was,
00:13:59.90\00:14:02.17
if you look, you remember
that in the Old Testament
00:14:02.20\00:14:05.24
there in the Book of Genesis,
Abraham and Lot parted ways,
00:14:05.27\00:14:09.38
Lot pitched his
tent toward Sodom.
00:14:09.41\00:14:12.11
The Bible says the
people of Sodom were sinners
00:14:12.15\00:14:14.22
before the Lord exceedingly.
00:14:14.25\00:14:17.09
And eventually
God sent two angels
00:14:17.12\00:14:19.32
because they were
going to judge Sodom.
00:14:19.35\00:14:22.02
And he gave Lot an opportunity
to escape, the angels,
00:14:22.06\00:14:28.10
you know, after
the people in the town
00:14:28.13\00:14:29.80
tried to accost them
00:14:29.83\00:14:31.17
and they were
stricken with blindness,
00:14:31.20\00:14:32.77
they said to Lot and
his daughters and his wife,
00:14:32.80\00:14:35.07
"Escape for your
life: look not behind thee,
00:14:35.10\00:14:38.97
escape to the mountains,
lest you be consumed."
00:14:39.01\00:14:43.81
What was going
to happen to those
00:14:43.85\00:14:45.18
that stayed in the city?
00:14:45.21\00:14:47.12
They'll be consumed. What
is the fate of the wicked?
00:14:47.18\00:14:50.25
The Bible says,
00:14:50.29\00:14:51.62
"Sodom and
Gomorrah are set forth
00:14:51.65\00:14:52.99
as an example of those
00:14:53.02\00:14:54.66
who are suffering the
vengeance of eternal fire,
00:14:54.69\00:14:57.23
while it says the
eternal fire consume them."
00:14:57.29\00:15:01.10
And then of course it
says the Lord rained upon Sodom
00:15:01.13\00:15:04.00
and Gomorrah brimstone
00:15:04.07\00:15:05.60
and fire from the
Lord out of heaven,
00:15:05.63\00:15:08.40
and the Lord looked
toward Sodom and he,
00:15:08.44\00:15:11.31
he and Abraham look
toward Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:15:11.34\00:15:13.21
and, lo, the smoke
of the country went up
00:15:13.24\00:15:15.48
as the smoke of a furnace."
00:15:15.51\00:15:18.91
But you know the story,
00:15:18.95\00:15:20.32
"His wife
looked back behind him,
00:15:20.35\00:15:22.72
and she became
a pillar of salt."
00:15:22.75\00:15:25.29
And so this is
very important story
00:15:25.32\00:15:27.82
about what
judgment is for the wicked,
00:15:27.86\00:15:29.79
and the story of Sodom
and Gomorrah explained.
00:15:29.82\00:15:31.99
And now notice what Peter
says, we read what Jude says,
00:15:32.03\00:15:34.83
look at what Peter says,
00:15:34.86\00:15:36.20
"Turning the cities of
Sodom and Gomorrah into what?"
00:15:36.23\00:15:40.24
This eternal fire
burned them up forever.
00:15:40.30\00:15:44.81
The reason it's
called eternal fire
00:15:44.84\00:15:46.41
is 'cause the result
of the fire was eternal."
00:15:46.44\00:15:49.04
Have Sodom and
Gomorrah ever been rebuilt?
00:15:49.08\00:15:51.68
Matter of fact
number of prophets point
00:15:51.71\00:15:53.58
back to Sodom and Gomorrah
00:15:53.62\00:15:55.02
and use them as
an example of a city
00:15:55.05\00:15:56.95
that would never be rebuilt.
00:15:56.99\00:15:58.45
And he said this
regarding Nineveh,
00:15:58.49\00:16:00.09
he said it regarding Babylon,
he said, they'll be like Sodom,
00:16:00.12\00:16:03.16
it'll never be inhabited
again and it never was.
00:16:03.19\00:16:06.56
"Making them an
example under those
00:16:06.59\00:16:08.70
who should after
would live ungodly."
00:16:08.73\00:16:10.90
So if we want to know
00:16:10.97\00:16:12.30
what the fate of
the lost or ungodly is,
00:16:12.33\00:16:15.10
the Bible says,
00:16:15.14\00:16:16.47
"Sodom and Gomorrah
are an example of that,
00:16:16.50\00:16:18.84
they were consumed,
00:16:18.87\00:16:20.21
they were burned
up with eternal fire,
00:16:20.28\00:16:21.84
and they perished."
00:16:21.88\00:16:23.45
This is the
picture of that region,
00:16:23.48\00:16:24.88
I've been down to the Dead Sea
00:16:24.91\00:16:26.75
in the southern
part of the Dead Sea.
00:16:26.82\00:16:30.09
It's nothing there.
00:16:30.12\00:16:31.75
Matter of fact,
00:16:31.79\00:16:33.12
I've got a friend
00:16:33.15\00:16:34.49
who's made several
trips down the area
00:16:34.52\00:16:36.22
and he says,
00:16:36.26\00:16:37.63
"He digs the sulphur
balls out of the ground,
00:16:37.66\00:16:41.30
that you can take
00:16:41.33\00:16:42.66
and put a match to
and they'll lignite."
00:16:42.70\00:16:44.03
Yeah, I've got one, I've
tried it before it works.
00:16:44.07\00:16:45.63
I don't do it in
church 'cause it stinks.
00:16:45.67\00:16:47.60
But I did it once
that's how I know.
00:16:47.64\00:16:50.77
But it's real,
00:16:50.81\00:16:52.14
I mean it's the
only place in the world
00:16:52.17\00:16:53.51
you can find these sulphur balls
00:16:53.54\00:16:54.88
embedded in the ash,
00:16:54.91\00:16:56.24
in the ground
00:16:56.28\00:16:57.61
that you can pop
out of the ground,
00:16:57.65\00:16:58.98
put a match to it and they burn.
00:16:59.01\00:17:00.42
So quite literally
00:17:00.45\00:17:01.78
there is a least sulphur
in brimstone in that place.
00:17:01.82\00:17:04.12
Second question to consider,
00:17:04.15\00:17:05.62
"When will the wicked
be destroyed in hellfire?"
00:17:05.65\00:17:09.92
2 Peter 2:9,
00:17:09.96\00:17:11.29
"The Lord knows how
to reserve the unjust..."
00:17:11.33\00:17:15.23
What do they do?
00:17:15.26\00:17:16.60
They're reserved.
00:17:16.67\00:17:18.00
When you call ahead
to a restaurant you say,
00:17:18.03\00:17:20.34
"Can you reserve me a seat?"
00:17:20.37\00:17:22.47
That means they're
holding a place for you.
00:17:22.50\00:17:25.04
Are the wicked burning in
hell now or are they reserved?
00:17:25.07\00:17:28.01
"How to reserve the unjust
unto the day of judgment..."
00:17:28.04\00:17:31.35
When will they be punished?
00:17:31.38\00:17:32.91
The day of
judgment to be punished.
00:17:32.95\00:17:35.82
And again Jesus
said, John 12:48,
00:17:35.85\00:17:38.15
"The word that I have spoken,
00:17:38.19\00:17:39.62
the same will judge
him in the last day."
00:17:39.65\00:17:43.19
You can read John 6, John 11.
00:17:43.22\00:17:46.33
Over and over
Jesus is the judgment,
00:17:46.36\00:17:48.10
the last day, the last day.
00:17:48.13\00:17:50.07
So the idea that
as soon as people die,
00:17:50.13\00:17:52.70
they go to hell
00:17:52.73\00:17:54.10
and they start to
burn is not biblical.
00:17:54.14\00:17:56.77
First of all why would you
give a person the punishment?
00:17:56.81\00:18:00.11
And then when the Lord
comes pull him out of hell,
00:18:00.14\00:18:02.24
in judgment say,
00:18:02.28\00:18:03.61
"Sure enough you were guilty
00:18:03.68\00:18:05.01
and put him back in hell again."
00:18:05.05\00:18:06.75
That wouldn't be very just.
00:18:06.78\00:18:09.85
Jesus tells a parable
00:18:09.88\00:18:11.82
and, you know, the parable
of the wheat and the tares.
00:18:11.85\00:18:14.92
I remember when
I first read this,
00:18:14.96\00:18:16.29
I said, what is a tare?
00:18:16.32\00:18:18.06
Tare is where it's another crop,
00:18:18.09\00:18:20.23
it's actually weeds
00:18:20.26\00:18:21.60
but when they first sprout up,
00:18:21.63\00:18:22.96
they look very similar to wheat.
00:18:23.00\00:18:25.67
As enemy sows the tares
00:18:25.70\00:18:27.44
and the servant
says, "What do we do?
00:18:27.47\00:18:28.80
We go pull up the tares."
00:18:28.84\00:18:30.21
He says, "Let them grow together
00:18:30.24\00:18:31.57
until the harvest,
then you separate the two."
00:18:31.61\00:18:34.58
And Jesus makes it pretty clear,
00:18:34.61\00:18:35.94
He says, "As
therefore the tares are gathered
00:18:35.98\00:18:39.05
and burned in the fire,
00:18:39.08\00:18:41.45
so shall it be in
the end of the world."
00:18:41.48\00:18:44.02
When were they
gathered and burned?
00:18:44.09\00:18:46.96
It will be the end of the world.
00:18:46.99\00:18:48.32
And he says, you read on,
00:18:48.36\00:18:49.69
"The Son of man will
send forth his angels,
00:18:49.72\00:18:51.96
and they will gather
them that do iniquity.
00:18:51.99\00:18:54.36
And they'll cast them
into a furnace of fire,
00:18:54.36\00:18:58.30
where they are consumed..."
00:18:58.33\00:19:00.17
And the Bible
says, "They are devoured,
00:19:00.20\00:19:01.80
and they are burnt up."
00:19:01.84\00:19:03.17
These are words
00:19:03.20\00:19:04.54
that the Bible
uses to describe that.
00:19:04.57\00:19:06.71
You know, I remember years ago,
00:19:06.74\00:19:09.61
I was a long,
must been 30 years ago,
00:19:09.64\00:19:12.58
I think I can be
very honest with you now.
00:19:12.61\00:19:14.72
I was listening to family radio,
00:19:14.75\00:19:17.55
and they have a
Bible Answer program
00:19:17.62\00:19:21.46
as called Open Forum,
and Pastor Harold Camping,
00:19:21.49\00:19:25.16
the late Pastor Harold Camping
was answering Bible questions.
00:19:25.19\00:19:29.76
Now I'm up there,
I've no telephone,
00:19:29.80\00:19:31.63
all I've got is a radio
up on the hill same place
00:19:31.67\00:19:33.67
where we have our cabin now
but this was a long time ago,
00:19:33.74\00:19:35.90
was a lot more primitive,
these kerosene lamps back then.
00:19:35.94\00:19:39.21
And I used to love
to listen to the radio,
00:19:39.24\00:19:43.58
they had some
great Christian music
00:19:43.65\00:19:44.98
and they'd read the Bible.
00:19:45.01\00:19:46.35
And they really
had some nice programs.
00:19:46.38\00:19:47.72
But then he would come on,
00:19:47.75\00:19:49.08
now you know who
Harold Camping is.
00:19:49.12\00:19:50.45
He predicted the second
coming two or three times.
00:19:50.49\00:19:52.92
And obviously he was wrong.
00:19:52.95\00:19:55.56
And he would get on, and
he would answer questions,
00:19:55.59\00:19:58.23
and I used to listen that,
00:19:58.26\00:19:59.59
he used to get me all worked up.
00:19:59.63\00:20:00.96
But I remember
00:20:00.96\00:20:03.33
one particular day a
college student called up
00:20:03.37\00:20:08.10
and she said,
00:20:08.14\00:20:09.47
"You know, I've
been reading the Bible
00:20:09.50\00:20:10.87
and I'd like to believe in God,
00:20:10.91\00:20:12.47
I'd like to believe in Jesus
00:20:12.51\00:20:13.84
but I just don't understand
how a God of love and Jesus
00:20:13.88\00:20:16.34
seems so loving,
00:20:16.38\00:20:17.71
He would take the creatures
00:20:17.75\00:20:19.08
that He's made and torture
them if they don't love Him.
00:20:19.11\00:20:21.68
It's like basically saying,
"Love me or burn in hell."
00:20:21.72\00:20:24.49
And the student was thinking,
00:20:24.52\00:20:26.32
you either can love me
00:20:26.35\00:20:28.26
or I'm going to torture
you and that was her question.
00:20:28.29\00:20:30.49
And his answer was,
00:20:30.53\00:20:31.86
"Well, who are
we to question God?
00:20:31.89\00:20:33.23
And this is what
the Bible says and...
00:20:33.26\00:20:34.63
Oh, that made me so mad
as I hear someone searching
00:20:34.66\00:20:36.60
for the truth
00:20:36.63\00:20:37.97
and they're being
fed this nonsense.
00:20:38.00\00:20:40.47
Immediately after
that a lady called.
00:20:40.50\00:20:43.54
And she said
00:20:43.57\00:20:44.91
and you could tell
her voice was breaking.
00:20:44.94\00:20:47.44
And she said, "My
son was not a Christian.
00:20:47.51\00:20:51.18
He had a problem drinking,
00:20:51.21\00:20:52.58
he died instantly
in a car accident.
00:20:52.61\00:20:56.38
I just need to know is
he burning in hell now.
00:20:56.42\00:20:59.82
Very direct question.
00:20:59.85\00:21:01.39
He tried to
evade it for a moment
00:21:01.42\00:21:03.09
and finally he
came right out and said,
00:21:03.12\00:21:04.46
"Well, according to the Bible
there's only two destinies,
00:21:04.49\00:21:06.63
he's either with
the Lord in heaven
00:21:06.70\00:21:08.43
or he is burning now in hell."
00:21:08.46\00:21:09.80
And you could hear
the lady kind of choke.
00:21:09.83\00:21:12.40
And she hung up the phone.
00:21:12.43\00:21:13.90
Well, at this point
I'm jumping up and down.
00:21:13.94\00:21:16.47
I don't have a telephone.
No cell phone back then.
00:21:16.50\00:21:20.24
And so I jumped in my
car and I drive 12 miles
00:21:20.28\00:21:24.01
a very bad dirt road
to the nearest telephone
00:21:24.05\00:21:27.48
it was at our member's house,
00:21:27.52\00:21:29.08
her name was Dr. Lolita
Simpson and I came charging in.
00:21:29.12\00:21:32.72
It was like 8:30,
9 o'clock at night.
00:21:32.75\00:21:34.59
And I knew it was
a one hour program
00:21:34.62\00:21:35.96
and I needed to get on the air
00:21:35.99\00:21:37.33
'cause I
thought I've got to hope
00:21:37.39\00:21:38.73
those people are still listening
00:21:38.76\00:21:40.10
'cause I'm gonna
see if I can get through
00:21:40.13\00:21:41.43
and I'm going to give
the answers to these things.
00:21:41.46\00:21:43.33
And so I got to
her house and I said,
00:21:43.40\00:21:45.73
"Dr. Simpson, I got to
use your phone real quick."
00:21:45.77\00:21:48.07
And I had the
number and I called,
00:21:48.10\00:21:49.44
and I got a busy signal,
00:21:49.47\00:21:50.84
I've been
praying all the way down
00:21:50.87\00:21:52.21
that I get through.
00:21:52.24\00:21:53.58
And I called again and
they picked up they said,
00:21:53.61\00:21:55.58
"Oh, please stand by
and you'll be taken in line
00:21:55.61\00:21:58.05
and I said, Lord, Lord...
00:21:58.08\00:21:59.58
Next thing I
knew I hear his voice
00:21:59.61\00:22:01.62
"Welcome to Open Forum.
00:22:01.65\00:22:03.39
May I have your
question please?"
00:22:03.42\00:22:05.39
I didn't even know
what I was going to say.
00:22:05.42\00:22:08.62
And I said, "Yes,
sir, Brother Camping,
00:22:08.66\00:22:10.96
I said I'm a
Christian and then I said
00:22:10.99\00:22:13.43
I'm a Seventh-day
Adventist Christian."
00:22:13.50\00:22:15.00
'Cause I hope that
whoever is listening
00:22:15.03\00:22:16.40
would know where to
go for the right answers.
00:22:16.43\00:22:19.00
And I said, "And I believe
the Bible clearly teaches
00:22:19.03\00:22:21.74
that first of all the
dead are sleeping in the graves
00:22:21.77\00:22:23.47
until the resurrection
00:22:23.51\00:22:24.84
and that no one is
burning in hell now.
00:22:24.87\00:22:26.47
And hell does not
burn forever and ever.
00:22:26.51\00:22:27.84
Can I please
share a few scriptures?
00:22:27.88\00:22:29.21
Thank you."
00:22:29.24\00:22:30.61
You got to keep
talking or he cuts you off.
00:22:30.65\00:22:33.78
And so I started saying,
00:22:33.82\00:22:35.15
it says, "That
they will burn up,
00:22:35.18\00:22:36.52
and they are
consumed, and they perish.
00:22:36.55\00:22:37.89
And there's no more pain."
00:22:37.92\00:22:39.25
And I've given him all
00:22:39.29\00:22:40.62
these verses and pretty soon..."
00:22:40.66\00:22:42.52
She had a radio
and I could notice,
00:22:42.56\00:22:43.89
I didn't hear my voice anymore.
00:22:43.93\00:22:45.29
He kind of cut it.
00:22:45.33\00:22:47.66
He responded a little bit
then he let off the mute button
00:22:47.66\00:22:50.43
and he let me
respond again, I said, "Yes,
00:22:50.50\00:22:52.27
I've heard those verses
before and here's what this
00:22:52.30\00:22:53.67
and this means
00:22:53.70\00:22:55.04
and I've given
him all the answers
00:22:55.07\00:22:56.40
and then he cut me off,
00:22:56.44\00:22:57.77
he didn't take
another phone call
00:22:57.81\00:22:59.14
for the last 20
minutes of the broadcast.
00:22:59.17\00:23:01.54
He just kept trying to untangle
the scriptures that I've given.
00:23:01.58\00:23:08.28
And I remember
driving home that night,
00:23:08.32\00:23:09.65
I was praying that those people
were listening and I said,
00:23:09.68\00:23:13.69
"Lord, boy, I would
love to have a radio program
00:23:13.76\00:23:15.69
where I could give
people the answers."
00:23:15.72\00:23:17.43
Amen.
00:23:17.46\00:23:18.79
And you know for
the last 20 years
00:23:18.83\00:23:20.16
we've had Bible Answers Live.
00:23:20.20\00:23:21.63
Every week we're calling people
00:23:21.66\00:23:23.53
and hopefully hearing the truth.
00:23:23.57\00:23:26.13
And we meet people...
00:23:26.17\00:23:28.74
We meet people all
the time that say...
00:23:28.77\00:23:30.47
I've got the letters
from kids and, you know,
00:23:30.51\00:23:32.11
it's the ones that break
your heart are the teenagers.
00:23:32.14\00:23:34.81
"Said Pastor Doug, I
couldn't sleep at night,
00:23:34.84\00:23:36.54
I lived in terror that
I was going to die lost.
00:23:36.58\00:23:39.28
I go to church and
they preach about the hell.
00:23:39.31\00:23:40.98
And I was so afraid of God
and I was so afraid I die lost.
00:23:41.02\00:23:43.69
I was in misery and
then we heard your program,
00:23:43.75\00:23:46.72
and we did the lesson,
00:23:46.76\00:23:48.22
and I have peace for
the first time in my life."
00:23:48.26\00:23:50.39
Those, that just brings
me such joy to know that.
00:23:50.43\00:23:53.80
Now before you take it too far,
00:23:53.86\00:23:57.97
we do believe in hellfire.
00:23:58.00\00:24:01.27
And there is a punishment
00:24:01.30\00:24:02.94
for the wicked and it does burn.
00:24:02.97\00:24:05.41
So don't misunderstand that.
00:24:05.44\00:24:06.98
Number three, "If the wicked
who have died are not in hell,
00:24:07.01\00:24:10.15
where are they?"
00:24:10.18\00:24:11.51
Well, we sort
of touched on this.
00:24:11.55\00:24:12.88
They're in their
graves. John 5:28, 29.
00:24:12.91\00:24:15.82
"The hour is coming Jesus said
00:24:15.85\00:24:17.65
in which all
that are in the graves
00:24:17.69\00:24:19.62
will hear his voice
and they will come forth,
00:24:19.65\00:24:21.72
they that have done
good will come forth,
00:24:21.76\00:24:24.16
or they that have done evil
00:24:24.23\00:24:25.56
unto the
resurrection of damnation."
00:24:25.59\00:24:27.93
It's the
resurrection of the just
00:24:27.96\00:24:29.43
and the
resurrection of damnation.
00:24:29.46\00:24:31.30
And so the dead
in Christ rise first.
00:24:31.33\00:24:33.54
In the second resurrection,
00:24:33.60\00:24:35.00
you've got to lost
00:24:35.04\00:24:36.37
and they're brought
forth for their judgment.
00:24:36.40\00:24:38.57
The wicked is reserved
to the day of destruction.
00:24:38.61\00:24:41.64
Yet he will be
brought to the grave
00:24:41.68\00:24:43.18
and remain in the
tomb until that day,"
00:24:43.21\00:24:46.48
until the judgment day.
00:24:46.51\00:24:47.85
So nobody is
burning in hell now.
00:24:47.88\00:24:50.39
You know, that's
driven some people
00:24:50.45\00:24:51.79
to absolute distraction.
00:24:51.82\00:24:53.92
Christian believing parents,
00:24:53.96\00:24:55.29
they've got children that die
00:24:55.32\00:24:56.66
and they
question their salvation.
00:24:56.69\00:24:58.03
And the idea that all
the time they walk the earth
00:24:58.06\00:25:01.16
that they're writhing
00:25:01.20\00:25:02.53
in some
diabolical torture chamber.
00:25:02.56\00:25:06.94
You know, how many
of you have heard that,
00:25:06.97\00:25:08.87
you know, hell is
down under somewhere.
00:25:08.90\00:25:12.04
That's not really taught.
00:25:12.07\00:25:13.91
There's four words
00:25:13.98\00:25:15.71
that you find
translated hell in the Bible.
00:25:15.74\00:25:18.35
The most common is Sheol.
00:25:18.38\00:25:20.32
Sheol is a Hebrew word
and simply means the grave.
00:25:20.35\00:25:24.49
Then you've got the word Hades.
00:25:24.52\00:25:26.02
Hades comes from Greek mythology
00:25:26.05\00:25:27.66
and it's a place of darkness,
00:25:27.69\00:25:29.46
Pluto was the god
in charge of Hades.
00:25:29.49\00:25:31.76
And then you got one time
it mentions the word Tartarus,
00:25:31.79\00:25:34.36
and that just means
again a place of darkness.
00:25:34.40\00:25:37.63
And then you've got Gehenna,
00:25:37.67\00:25:39.70
there was a valley
outside of Jerusalem
00:25:39.73\00:25:41.97
called the Valley of
Hinnom and it was the city dump.
00:25:42.00\00:25:44.87
And it was often
smoldering and full of worms
00:25:44.91\00:25:47.54
and dead things and...
00:25:47.58\00:25:48.91
And you'll see how
00:25:48.94\00:25:50.31
that fits into some of
the scriptures that come up.
00:25:50.35\00:25:52.55
So what is the
reward, or punishment for sin?
00:25:52.58\00:25:56.85
The Bible says,
00:25:56.89\00:25:58.22
"The wages for sin
00:25:58.25\00:26:00.09
are everlasting
burning in fire."
00:26:00.12\00:26:03.12
Is that what it says?
00:26:03.16\00:26:04.63
No, the wages for sin is death.
00:26:04.66\00:26:07.13
But the gift of
God is eternal life.
00:26:07.13\00:26:09.83
See in the very
beginning God told
00:26:09.86\00:26:11.50
Eve if you sin, you will die.
00:26:11.53\00:26:14.37
And yet the sad thing is
and here it is in Genesis 3:22.
00:26:14.40\00:26:18.74
"Lest he put forth his hand
00:26:18.77\00:26:20.18
and take also of
the tree of life,
00:26:20.21\00:26:21.68
and eat, and live forever."
00:26:21.71\00:26:23.78
God said, "Man was
not to have eternal life."
00:26:23.85\00:26:28.35
And the devil said to
Eve, "You will not surely die."
00:26:28.38\00:26:32.32
And this lie goes all
the way back to the devil
00:26:32.35\00:26:34.39
that you don't really die,
00:26:34.42\00:26:35.76
you sort of die
00:26:35.79\00:26:37.13
but you really
transmigrate you instantly
00:26:37.16\00:26:39.19
go to be with the
Lord before the judgment
00:26:39.23\00:26:41.23
or you go to a place of torment,
00:26:41.26\00:26:43.53
or you go to
limbo, or purgatory,
00:26:43.57\00:26:45.70
or Abraham's bosom
00:26:45.73\00:26:47.10
and they get all
these other scenarios.
00:26:47.14\00:26:49.54
But the Bible is
pretty clear, they're dead,
00:26:49.57\00:26:51.81
and they remain in their graves.
00:26:51.84\00:26:53.34
Now you know it confuses people,
00:26:53.38\00:26:55.98
it's because you
read these verses and say,
00:26:56.01\00:26:57.81
"To be absent from the body
00:26:57.85\00:26:59.75
is to be present with the Lord."
00:26:59.78\00:27:02.22
And that's true
for the Christian
00:27:02.25\00:27:05.55
when you're saved,
00:27:05.59\00:27:07.62
your next conscious
thought after you die,
00:27:07.69\00:27:10.46
is the presence of the Lord.
00:27:10.49\00:27:11.89
Thousand years could go
by but you're not there yet.
00:27:11.93\00:27:15.33
King David, Acts 2, Peter says,
00:27:15.36\00:27:17.47
"David is dead and
buried in his grave
00:27:17.50\00:27:19.83
is with us to this day."
00:27:19.87\00:27:22.47
And then he goes on and said,
00:27:22.50\00:27:23.84
"David is not
ascended to heaven."
00:27:23.91\00:27:25.31
I mean how much
more clearer it could be.
00:27:25.34\00:27:27.11
He's dead, buried,
not ascended to heaven.
00:27:27.18\00:27:29.24
And we all agree
David will be saved, right?
00:27:29.28\00:27:32.85
Bible is pretty clear on that.
00:27:32.88\00:27:34.22
So here's a saved
person who is dead, buried,
00:27:34.25\00:27:35.88
not in heaven
and Peter says this,
00:27:35.92\00:27:37.69
"After the
resurrection by 40 days..."
00:27:37.72\00:27:40.59
Some people say,
"Well, at the resurrection,
00:27:40.66\00:27:41.99
then all the
Saints went to heaven."
00:27:42.02\00:27:44.36
They would still dead,
buried, and not in heaven.
00:27:44.39\00:27:47.50
But for David when he
died about 3,000 years ago,
00:27:47.60\00:27:49.96
how long will it seem?
00:27:50.03\00:27:52.33
David slept with his
fathers and next thought
00:27:52.37\00:27:54.44
he has it's
going to be the moment
00:27:54.47\00:27:55.94
the twinkling of an
eye absent from the body,
00:27:55.97\00:27:58.07
he'll know the resurrection
and the presence of God
00:27:58.11\00:28:00.91
but it hasn't happened
yet because we live in time,
00:28:00.94\00:28:04.28
we live in the
dimension of time.
00:28:04.31\00:28:05.65
When you're dead,
00:28:05.68\00:28:07.02
you lose all
consciousness of time.
00:28:07.05\00:28:08.85
Any of you sleep
like that in the night?
00:28:08.88\00:28:10.72
I mean, maybe you know somebody
00:28:10.75\00:28:12.09
who sleeps like
that if you know.
00:28:12.12\00:28:13.99
Well, yeah, you go to
sleep and it says 10 o'clock,
00:28:14.02\00:28:16.16
you wake up and it's 7 o'clock
00:28:16.19\00:28:17.56
and it feels like
two seconds went by.
00:28:17.59\00:28:21.40
That's pretty
nice when that happens.
00:28:21.43\00:28:22.76
"What are the only two
choices that all people have?"
00:28:26.84\00:28:31.81
John 3:16, "For
God so loved the world
00:28:31.84\00:28:35.81
He gave His only begotten Son
00:28:35.84\00:28:37.88
that whosoever
believes in Him believes in Him,
00:28:37.91\00:28:41.32
believes in Him,
should not perish,
00:28:41.35\00:28:45.25
but have everlasting life."
00:28:45.29\00:28:46.96
So what are the
two options we have?
00:28:46.99\00:28:49.32
Perish or everlasting life.
00:28:49.36\00:28:53.73
The idea that the
punishment for sin
00:28:53.80\00:28:57.13
is everlasting torture
well, how in the world...
00:28:57.17\00:29:01.20
If Jesus died for our sin,
00:29:01.24\00:29:03.04
if He did not suffer forever
how did He pay our penalty?
00:29:03.07\00:29:06.81
You see what I'm saying?
00:29:06.84\00:29:08.18
If the penalty for sin
is death that Jesus died.
00:29:08.21\00:29:11.41
But if the penalty
for sin is not perish,
00:29:11.45\00:29:13.11
you know, death,
00:29:13.15\00:29:14.48
if the penalty for sin
is everlasting torture,
00:29:14.52\00:29:16.72
well, Jesus was in the grave
and He rose after three days.
00:29:16.75\00:29:21.66
And Jesus said,
there's two options,
00:29:21.69\00:29:25.36
"So the penalty for sin
is not eternal burning."
00:29:25.39\00:29:28.33
Number six,
00:29:28.36\00:29:30.10
"What will happen to
the wicked in hellfire?"
00:29:30.17\00:29:33.47
Proverbs, I'm
sorry Psalms 37:10, 20,
00:29:33.54\00:29:36.91
"For yet a little while,
and the wicked will not be,
00:29:36.94\00:29:40.68
the wicked shall
perish into smoke
00:29:40.71\00:29:42.94
they will consume away."
00:29:42.98\00:29:44.48
They'll perish,
they will consume away,
00:29:44.51\00:29:46.05
they will not be,
Malachi 4:1 and 3,
00:29:46.08\00:29:48.75
"The day that
comes will burn them up
00:29:48.78\00:29:50.99
as an oven,
00:29:51.02\00:29:52.35
all that do
wickedly shall be stubble.
00:29:52.39\00:29:54.99
Leaves them
neither root nor branch,
00:29:55.02\00:29:57.76
the day that comes,
00:29:57.79\00:29:59.13
that you will
tread down the wicked,
00:29:59.16\00:30:00.50
for they will be ashes
under the soles of your feet."
00:30:00.53\00:30:03.03
It is so clear, they
perish, they're consumed,
00:30:03.06\00:30:05.93
they're
destroyed, they're burned up,
00:30:05.97\00:30:07.67
they're burnt
with an eternal fire
00:30:07.70\00:30:09.60
because the results
of the fire are eternal.
00:30:09.64\00:30:13.01
You know, God is so merciful,
He's trying to make it clear,
00:30:13.04\00:30:15.41
this is the final fire,
there's no second chance.
00:30:15.44\00:30:19.88
Now this is
what confuses people,
00:30:19.91\00:30:21.85
"Where will hellfire be?"
00:30:21.88\00:30:25.39
People say, "You
know down in hell."
00:30:25.42\00:30:26.92
I remember one time I was...
00:30:26.96\00:30:30.53
Well, I'm a little
embarrassed to admit it
00:30:30.59\00:30:32.33
but when I stand in
line and I'm at Walmart,
00:30:32.36\00:30:36.93
where I buy all
my finer clothes.
00:30:37.00\00:30:39.33
And I was actually
just bought a nice tie
00:30:39.37\00:30:43.74
it sounds like a
commercial, isn't it?
00:30:43.77\00:30:45.41
Anyway I read the covers
00:30:45.44\00:30:51.08
of the tabloid magazines.
00:30:51.11\00:30:54.25
I would never buy one,
00:30:54.28\00:30:55.62
unless I do it
00:30:55.65\00:30:56.99
as a sermon
illustration like now.
00:30:57.02\00:30:58.45
But I read the covers
00:30:58.49\00:30:59.89
and I remember a few years ago,
00:30:59.92\00:31:01.32
I saw one and it said,
00:31:01.36\00:31:03.26
"Oil drillers in
Siberia drilled deep well
00:31:03.29\00:31:07.10
and reach hell,
00:31:07.13\00:31:08.43
demons are escaping
or something like that."
00:31:08.46\00:31:12.93
But, you know, a
lot of people think
00:31:12.97\00:31:14.30
that's way down
under, hell is down under.
00:31:14.34\00:31:17.47
But Bible is pretty clear
00:31:17.51\00:31:19.44
that fire rains
down on the earth
00:31:19.47\00:31:21.58
and that becomes hell
just like Sodom and Gomorrah.
00:31:21.61\00:31:24.85
You can read in Revelation 20:9.
00:31:24.88\00:31:27.28
"Speaking of the wicked Gog
00:31:27.32\00:31:28.65
and Magog they go up
on the breath of the earth
00:31:28.68\00:31:30.65
and they surround
the camp of the saints,
00:31:30.69\00:31:32.65
the beloved city,"
and the Bible says,
00:31:32.69\00:31:35.06
"Fire comes down
from God out of heaven,
00:31:35.09\00:31:37.79
and devours them."
00:31:37.83\00:31:40.26
They're devoured,
they're all eaten up.
00:31:40.30\00:31:43.30
Again 2 Peter 3:10 says,
00:31:43.33\00:31:45.73
"The day of the Lord will
come as a thief in the night,
00:31:45.77\00:31:47.50
in which the
heavens will pass away
00:31:47.57\00:31:48.90
with a great noise,
00:31:48.94\00:31:50.27
the elements will
melt with fervent heat,
00:31:50.31\00:31:53.31
the earth also and the things
00:31:53.34\00:31:55.01
that are in it
will be burned up."
00:31:55.04\00:31:57.48
Now at this point the
dead in Christ have risen.
00:31:57.51\00:32:00.75
All that's left is the lost.
00:32:00.82\00:32:03.08
That's why Jeremiah says,
00:32:03.12\00:32:04.52
"I behold the
surface of the earth
00:32:04.55\00:32:06.76
and it was broken down,
and all there is no man,
00:32:06.79\00:32:10.46
all the birds of heaven
00:32:10.53\00:32:11.86
had fled at the
coming of the Lord."
00:32:11.89\00:32:13.29
So there's
desolation left behind.
00:32:13.33\00:32:16.50
So will the devil
be in charge of hell?
00:32:16.53\00:32:20.20
No.
00:32:20.24\00:32:22.04
You know, how many of you
when you picture the devil,
00:32:22.07\00:32:24.41
you see something like this?
00:32:24.44\00:32:25.77
You got this guy
00:32:25.81\00:32:27.28
he's, you know,
sometimes has bat wings
00:32:27.34\00:32:28.94
and he's got the horns of course
00:32:28.98\00:32:30.31
and he got a goatee
00:32:30.35\00:32:31.68
which is why it
won't grow on anymore.
00:32:31.71\00:32:33.78
Beards are back in, aren't they?
00:32:33.82\00:32:35.35
And it seems like everybody,
all these pastors have beards.
00:32:35.38\00:32:37.89
And I grew a beard
years ago, and people told me,
00:32:37.92\00:32:40.42
I look like a sinister minister.
00:32:40.46\00:32:42.69
And so, not so bad
one, it's a great one.
00:32:42.72\00:32:45.93
But when I was
younger it was black,
00:32:45.96\00:32:47.30
and I did look kind of devious.
00:32:47.36\00:32:49.56
So I thought, that's not good.
00:32:49.60\00:32:51.30
Get rid of it if
you're an evangelist,
00:32:51.33\00:32:52.83
we already have a
bad reputation, don't we?
00:32:52.87\00:32:54.67
Evangelists, yeah.
00:32:54.70\00:32:56.10
So anyway how to get off that,
oh, the devil's got a beard.
00:32:56.14\00:32:59.77
And he's got the red leotards,
00:32:59.81\00:33:01.31
you know, and he's got the tail
00:33:01.34\00:33:02.68
with the point on it,
00:33:02.71\00:33:04.05
he's got the pitchfork, why,
because he's in charge of hell,
00:33:04.08\00:33:06.58
and he wants to make
sure everyone cooks evenly.
00:33:06.61\00:33:08.32
And, or he's like bales of hay,
00:33:08.35\00:33:10.42
he's heaving the
lost sinners into hell.
00:33:10.49\00:33:12.52
And this is actually
00:33:12.55\00:33:14.26
a combination of Greek mythology
00:33:14.29\00:33:17.79
with Christian myths.
00:33:17.83\00:33:19.66
Nothing in the Bible says
00:33:19.69\00:33:21.00
that the devil is
in charge of hell.
00:33:21.03\00:33:22.36
What does the Bible say?
00:33:22.40\00:33:23.73
Revelation 20:10,
00:33:23.77\00:33:25.23
"And the devil
that deceived them
00:33:25.27\00:33:27.67
was cast into the lake of fire
00:33:27.70\00:33:29.97
and brimstone which
is the second death."
00:33:30.01\00:33:34.04
Satan is cast
into the lake of fire.
00:33:34.08\00:33:37.65
And Bible tells us
again in Matthew 25,
00:33:37.68\00:33:42.15
"That he declares to the lost,
00:33:42.18\00:33:43.55
depart from He
cursed into fire prepared
00:33:43.59\00:33:46.49
for the devil and his angels."
00:33:46.52\00:33:48.72
God didn't prepare it for you,
00:33:48.76\00:33:50.09
He's going to
prepare a mansion for you,
00:33:50.13\00:33:51.53
if you don't get the mansion
00:33:51.56\00:33:52.99
it's be because
00:33:53.03\00:33:54.36
you didn't want to follow Jesus,
00:33:54.36\00:33:55.70
but you wanted
to follow the devil
00:33:55.73\00:33:57.10
so you'll get his reward.
00:33:57.13\00:33:58.83
But if you want
what Jesus has prepared,
00:33:58.87\00:34:01.90
then you need to trust and
surrender your life to Him.
00:34:01.94\00:34:05.07
So will the fires
of hell ever go out?
00:34:05.11\00:34:08.51
Or does it just burn on
through endless eternity?
00:34:08.54\00:34:12.45
Isaiah 47:14,
00:34:12.48\00:34:14.52
"There will not
be a coal to warm at,
00:34:14.55\00:34:17.82
nor fire to sit before it."
00:34:17.85\00:34:20.96
It goes out, it's
consumed, they're burnt up.
00:34:20.99\00:34:24.33
"Are both the soul
00:34:24.36\00:34:25.69
and the body destroyed in hell?"
00:34:25.73\00:34:28.40
You can read
this in Matthew 10:28,
00:34:28.43\00:34:31.27
"Fear not them
that kill the body,
00:34:31.30\00:34:33.60
but are not able
to kill the soul,
00:34:33.64\00:34:35.44
but rather fear him
00:34:35.47\00:34:37.21
that is able to destroy
both soul and body in hell."
00:34:37.27\00:34:43.14
And I remember
hearing people say before,
00:34:43.18\00:34:44.51
"Well, yeah, Pastor Doug,
00:34:44.55\00:34:45.88
your right that it is true
00:34:45.91\00:34:48.62
that the bodies are burnt
up, but the soul is immortal.
00:34:48.65\00:34:52.75
The soul is burned forever."
00:34:52.79\00:34:54.82
And we have immortality,
00:34:54.86\00:34:56.19
you will either be
in heaven with the Lord
00:34:56.22\00:34:58.13
or you're going to
be burning forever.
00:34:58.16\00:35:00.93
And I ask where in the Bible
00:35:00.96\00:35:02.33
does it say we have immortality?
00:35:02.36\00:35:05.37
Paul says, "We are
seeking for immortality."
00:35:05.40\00:35:08.57
Paul says in 1 Timothy,
"God alone has immortality.
00:35:08.60\00:35:14.08
And when Jesus comes,
00:35:14.11\00:35:15.74
the saved will hear Him say
00:35:15.78\00:35:17.91
this mortal puts on immortality.
00:35:17.95\00:35:21.25
But we're not gods, we
don't have immortality.
00:35:21.28\00:35:24.29
This is what the
devil said to Eve,
00:35:24.32\00:35:25.75
"You cannot surely die.
00:35:25.79\00:35:28.09
You are gods.
00:35:28.12\00:35:30.26
You are going to live forever."
00:35:30.33\00:35:31.66
Let's see what the Bible says,
00:35:31.69\00:35:33.03
"Eternal life is
promised to the redeemed,
00:35:33.06\00:35:35.53
death is promised to the lost.
00:35:35.56\00:35:38.10
Two choices, life or death."
00:35:38.13\00:35:40.50
Quick story.
00:35:40.54\00:35:42.50
I was driving back from Lubbock,
00:35:42.54\00:35:45.04
Texas to Dickens,
00:35:45.07\00:35:46.41
Texas where I was
living at 70 miles
00:35:46.44\00:35:49.18
across the Texas plains.
00:35:49.21\00:35:52.48
And at Christmas Eve,
I was with the family,
00:35:52.51\00:35:55.52
came on this great big,
I'm driving a little Mazda GLC.
00:35:55.55\00:35:58.89
And I came across
00:35:58.92\00:36:00.32
one of these big
old Texas Buicks,
00:36:00.39\00:36:03.29
and there was a family,
00:36:03.32\00:36:05.13
a father,
mother, and two daughters
00:36:05.16\00:36:06.93
and their car broke down.
00:36:06.96\00:36:08.66
Well, I actually
used to do mechanic work.
00:36:08.70\00:36:10.60
I mean, I've gone in the crank
00:36:10.67\00:36:12.57
all the way up building engines.
00:36:12.60\00:36:14.14
So I pulled over to
see if I could help.
00:36:14.17\00:36:16.37
And he said, "You
know the lights went out,
00:36:16.40\00:36:18.54
the alternator is so and so..."
00:36:18.57\00:36:20.18
So I looked at it and I said,
00:36:20.21\00:36:21.61
"Yeah, let me tow
you over to my house."
00:36:21.64\00:36:24.38
It was the funniest
thing you've ever seen
00:36:24.41\00:36:25.75
this little Japanese Mazda
00:36:25.78\00:36:27.98
with my family
towing him and his car
00:36:28.02\00:36:30.52
with his family with big rope.
00:36:30.59\00:36:32.29
And anyways we
towed him about 20 miles.
00:36:32.32\00:36:35.99
I had the poor
little thing wide open.
00:36:36.02\00:36:38.16
And they came and I
looked at his car I said,
00:36:38.19\00:36:40.93
"Look your
alternator brushes are bad,
00:36:40.96\00:36:43.20
it's Christmas Eve,
00:36:43.23\00:36:44.57
we can't do anything
until the stores are open.
00:36:44.60\00:36:47.50
So why don't you stay with us?"
00:36:47.54\00:36:49.10
So he and his
family stayed with us,
00:36:49.14\00:36:51.04
it turns out he
was a baptist pastor.
00:36:51.07\00:36:53.74
And so, you know,
00:36:53.78\00:36:56.95
it's a lot
easier to witness people
00:36:57.01\00:36:58.35
when they sort of
owe you, you know.
00:36:58.38\00:37:02.48
That's why I pick up hitchhikers
00:37:02.52\00:37:03.85
and they say,
"Oh, you're so nice.
00:37:03.92\00:37:05.25
I say, oh, good,
00:37:05.29\00:37:06.62
you've listen to me preach now."
00:37:06.65\00:37:08.46
And anyway so we
started talking and he said,
00:37:08.49\00:37:14.36
"Well, you're
Christian, I'm a Christian.
00:37:14.40\00:37:15.73
What church? I'm a
Seventh-day Adventist."
00:37:15.76\00:37:17.10
He said, oh, I know a
little bit about Adventist,
00:37:17.17\00:37:18.57
you guys don't believe in hell.
00:37:18.60\00:37:19.93
I said, no, I believe in hell.
00:37:19.97\00:37:22.40
And as I like to think
Pastor John stole my line
00:37:22.44\00:37:23.81
the other day, I said,
00:37:23.84\00:37:25.17
"My hell is
hotter than your hell."
00:37:25.21\00:37:27.31
I said, "Your hell just
kind of roast people forever,
00:37:27.38\00:37:29.31
mine burns them up."
00:37:29.34\00:37:32.48
So we started
talking about that subject.
00:37:32.51\00:37:34.42
We talked about a lot of things,
00:37:34.45\00:37:35.78
but I remember
00:37:35.82\00:37:37.19
while we were talking
about the subject of hell,
00:37:37.22\00:37:39.02
there was a very
friendly conversation.
00:37:39.05\00:37:42.79
I just gave him one
scripture after another.
00:37:42.82\00:37:45.96
And he got real quiet
00:37:45.99\00:37:47.66
and he said, "You
know, brother Doug,
00:37:47.66\00:37:49.56
" he said,
00:37:49.60\00:37:51.00
"I've seen these verses before
and it's really made me wonder
00:37:51.03\00:37:53.60
but he said 'I'm afraid
if I were to tell my people
00:37:53.64\00:37:57.67
that they wouldn't
come to church anymore."
00:37:57.71\00:38:00.21
If I were to tell
him the lost is burned up
00:38:00.24\00:38:02.98
and then they're gone.
00:38:03.01\00:38:04.61
He said, "If it
wasn't the fear of hell,
00:38:04.65\00:38:06.51
are they want to
come to church anymore?"
00:38:06.55\00:38:10.25
I said, "Brother, you telling me
00:38:10.32\00:38:11.65
they're coming
because they're afraid,
00:38:11.69\00:38:13.32
that's the wrong reason."
00:38:13.39\00:38:15.46
"If they want to
come because God is love,
00:38:15.49\00:38:18.79
not because fire
insurance of some sort."
00:38:18.83\00:38:24.27
I mean, who
wants to serve a God,
00:38:24.30\00:38:26.17
the only thing,
reason you're serving Him
00:38:26.20\00:38:27.64
is because you
don't want to burn in hell
00:38:27.67\00:38:29.00
because if
that's the only reason
00:38:29.04\00:38:30.51
you're serving Him
should you ever get to heaven,
00:38:30.54\00:38:32.84
you've now lost your motivation.
00:38:32.87\00:38:36.08
Then you'd be a
real threat in heaven
00:38:36.11\00:38:37.71
because you say,
no more hellfire.
00:38:37.75\00:38:39.61
We're having
good time here, right?
00:38:39.65\00:38:42.32
No, you got to serve
Him because you love Him.
00:38:42.35\00:38:46.96
All right, number 11.
00:38:46.99\00:38:49.06
"For whom will
hellfire be kindled?"
00:38:49.09\00:38:51.86
It's as I mentioned
00:38:51.89\00:38:53.23
before it's not for he
doesn't want it for us.
00:38:53.26\00:38:55.80
Matthew 25:41, "Depart for ye,
cursed, into everlasting fire,
00:38:55.83\00:39:00.17
prepared for the
devil and his angels."
00:39:00.20\00:39:02.10
And I've told you
before the everlasting fire,
00:39:02.14\00:39:04.57
the eternal fire is reminding us
00:39:04.61\00:39:06.57
that the results of
this fire are eternal.
00:39:06.61\00:39:09.71
There is no second chance.
00:39:09.74\00:39:11.45
Amen.
00:39:11.48\00:39:12.81
"How does the Bible
refer to God's destruction
00:39:12.85\00:39:15.18
of the wicked?"
00:39:15.22\00:39:16.82
God is not willing
that any should perish.
00:39:16.85\00:39:20.12
It says in Isaiah 28:21,
00:39:20.19\00:39:22.49
"The Lord shall be wroth
00:39:22.52\00:39:24.26
that he may do his
work, his strange work,
00:39:24.29\00:39:27.66
and bring to pass his
act, his strange act."
00:39:27.66\00:39:31.53
It's a strange
thing for the Lord,
00:39:31.57\00:39:33.64
God is a God of love.
00:39:33.67\00:39:35.70
And Jesus is a loving
God, He wants to create life,
00:39:35.74\00:39:38.04
He wants to give life,
He wants to save from death.
00:39:38.07\00:39:40.98
The punishment of the wicked
00:39:41.01\00:39:42.64
and the
destruction of the wicked,
00:39:42.68\00:39:45.51
it breaks His heart.
00:39:45.55\00:39:48.42
Yeah, some of you
had to do this before.
00:39:48.45\00:39:51.82
We had a couple of dogs,
00:39:51.85\00:39:54.06
I remember bringing
a brother and sister
00:39:54.09\00:39:56.36
two dogs home years ago
00:39:56.39\00:39:58.13
when our boys were
young, the older boys.
00:39:58.16\00:40:01.06
And we named one Duffy.
00:40:01.10\00:40:04.73
And Duffy he
was very clumsy dog.
00:40:04.77\00:40:08.00
And Daniel sort of adopted Duffy
00:40:08.04\00:40:10.07
and Michael wanted Candy.
00:40:10.11\00:40:11.54
Candy was a beautiful,
00:40:11.57\00:40:12.91
that you would never
believe they were related
00:40:12.94\00:40:14.28
but they are brother and sister.
00:40:14.31\00:40:15.64
Candy was a chocolate
brown dog with the yellow eyes,
00:40:15.68\00:40:17.91
very sharp, very tender.
00:40:17.95\00:40:20.22
Duffy, he just went,
00:40:20.28\00:40:22.88
he bit a
rattlesnake or something.
00:40:22.92\00:40:24.25
He wasn't very smart dog.
00:40:24.29\00:40:26.49
And he didn't last very long,
00:40:26.52\00:40:28.19
we never quite
found out what happened.
00:40:28.22\00:40:30.19
Candy was with us 16 years.
00:40:30.23\00:40:33.56
And she was just,
00:40:33.60\00:40:35.16
you know, one of those pets
00:40:35.20\00:40:36.53
that'd become a
part of your family.
00:40:36.60\00:40:39.10
In fact, Candy outlived
our son that adopted him.
00:40:39.13\00:40:44.04
And so finally when
Candy got to that point
00:40:44.07\00:40:46.81
that dog's typically,
00:40:46.84\00:40:48.31
you know, people
outlive them generally.
00:40:48.34\00:40:51.68
She was in pretty bad shape.
00:40:51.71\00:40:53.28
And I went back home one time
00:40:53.35\00:40:55.12
and I saw Candy was
just dragging around,
00:40:55.15\00:40:57.22
looking just miserable
00:40:57.25\00:40:58.59
and I know in the
city you go see the vet,
00:40:58.62\00:41:02.86
that's not what
you do in the country.
00:41:02.89\00:41:06.09
And I realized
the time was coming
00:41:06.13\00:41:07.50
and I told the family,
00:41:07.50\00:41:08.83
I said, you need to
say goodbye to Candy
00:41:08.86\00:41:10.20
'cause I got to do something,
00:41:10.23\00:41:11.57
it's going to break my heart
00:41:11.60\00:41:12.93
but it's going to be
the loving thing to do
00:41:12.97\00:41:14.30
because she can't get
up, she can't walk around,
00:41:14.34\00:41:15.67
she's laying out
there in the mud right now,
00:41:15.70\00:41:17.47
and it's quite
literally what was happening.
00:41:17.51\00:41:20.04
And so I needed to
take her out into the woods
00:41:20.08\00:41:23.91
and do a strange act.
00:41:23.95\00:41:27.58
And it made me cry.
00:41:27.62\00:41:29.05
And I thought,
00:41:29.08\00:41:30.45
you know, when God
punishes the wicked,
00:41:30.49\00:41:31.92
He loves His lost children.
00:41:31.95\00:41:35.02
God is love,
00:41:35.06\00:41:36.69
infinitely more
than we love our kids,
00:41:36.73\00:41:40.06
let alone our pets.
00:41:40.10\00:41:42.40
And so if it would
break my heart like that
00:41:42.43\00:41:47.40
to have to put down a dog.
00:41:47.47\00:41:50.74
The idea that God
would find any justice
00:41:50.77\00:41:54.58
or any kind of
satisfaction in torturing
00:41:54.61\00:41:57.08
the lost objects of His creation
00:41:57.11\00:41:59.61
through endless ages.
00:41:59.65\00:42:01.05
And, you know,
there's no justice in that,
00:42:01.08\00:42:02.78
that would mean
00:42:02.82\00:42:04.19
if people
burned forever and ever
00:42:04.22\00:42:05.55
that would mean that Cain
00:42:05.59\00:42:07.26
who died about 5,000 years ago,
00:42:07.29\00:42:11.19
who killed one person
that we know of his brother
00:42:11.23\00:42:14.46
has been burning
5,000 years longer
00:42:14.50\00:42:16.93
than Adolph Hitler and Stalin
00:42:16.97\00:42:18.87
who were responsible
for millions of deaths.
00:42:18.90\00:42:22.27
That would mean that
the confused teenager
00:42:22.30\00:42:25.44
that reaches the
age of accountability,
00:42:25.47\00:42:27.54
but they commit suicide.
00:42:27.58\00:42:30.25
And they die without Jesus.
00:42:30.31\00:42:31.65
I know it breaks your
heart but sometimes that happens
00:42:31.68\00:42:34.45
that they would get the
same punishment as Hitler.
00:42:34.48\00:42:38.65
The idea
there's justice in that.
00:42:38.69\00:42:41.36
But the Bible is pretty clear
00:42:41.39\00:42:43.49
to whom much is
given much is required.
00:42:43.53\00:42:47.23
And those who
knew their masters well
00:42:47.30\00:42:48.86
and did not do it
00:42:48.90\00:42:50.23
they are beaten
with many stripes.
00:42:50.30\00:42:52.00
And those who did not know
00:42:52.03\00:42:53.37
and did things
worthy of stripes,
00:42:53.40\00:42:54.74
they are beaten
with few stripes.
00:42:54.77\00:42:56.14
So the Bible is clear
there are varying rewards.
00:42:56.17\00:43:00.58
Indeed the
Spirit of Prophecy says,
00:43:00.61\00:43:02.04
"There are some
00:43:02.08\00:43:03.45
who have been born into and live
00:43:03.48\00:43:04.81
such miserable
lives in such ignorance
00:43:04.85\00:43:08.02
that they will just be as though
00:43:08.05\00:43:09.38
they had not been.
00:43:09.42\00:43:10.79
God out of mercy for them
00:43:10.82\00:43:12.15
because they
had no light at all,
00:43:12.19\00:43:13.79
they lived in
total pagan darkness,
00:43:13.86\00:43:15.52
they will be as
though they had not been."
00:43:15.56\00:43:18.49
That's mercy.
00:43:18.53\00:43:20.73
God is a loving merciful God.
00:43:20.80\00:43:22.60
People are going to
get what they deserve.
00:43:22.63\00:43:24.97
Now you need to behave
because you know too much.
00:43:25.00\00:43:28.60
Number 13.
00:43:28.64\00:43:31.41
"Does the Bible phrase
unquenchable fire indicate
00:43:31.44\00:43:34.64
that the fire never goes out?"
00:43:34.68\00:43:37.21
As it's unquenchable fire.
00:43:37.25\00:43:39.01
Well, let's look at
some examples in the Bible
00:43:39.05\00:43:40.68
that explain that Matthew 3:12,
00:43:40.72\00:43:43.79
"He will
thoroughly purge the floor,
00:43:43.85\00:43:45.72
and gather his
wheat into the garner,
00:43:45.75\00:43:47.76
but he'll burn up the
chaff with unquenchable fire."
00:43:47.79\00:43:50.73
And I believe
these are the words
00:43:50.79\00:43:52.13
of John the Baptist.
00:43:52.16\00:43:53.66
Burn up the chaff,
00:43:53.70\00:43:55.00
it's like the wheat and
tares, unquenchable fire.
00:43:55.03\00:43:57.83
Jeremiah 17,
00:43:57.87\00:43:59.20
"The prophet here
warn the people of Israel,
00:43:59.23\00:44:01.64
if you will not hearken to
me to hollow the Sabbath day,
00:44:01.67\00:44:04.84
and not to bear a burden,
00:44:04.87\00:44:06.31
even entering in
the gates of Jerusalem
00:44:06.34\00:44:08.44
on the Sabbath day,
00:44:08.48\00:44:09.91
then I will kindle a
fire in the gates there of,
00:44:09.94\00:44:13.18
and it will devour
the palaces of Jerusalem,
00:44:13.21\00:44:15.85
and it shall be burned
00:44:15.88\00:44:17.39
with a fire that
is not quenched."
00:44:17.42\00:44:19.19
It says, it
shall not be quenched.
00:44:19.22\00:44:21.69
And again he says in Mark 9:47,
"If your eye causes you to sin,
00:44:21.72\00:44:26.70
pluck it out.
00:44:26.73\00:44:28.03
It's better for you to
enter the Kingdom of God
00:44:28.06\00:44:29.96
with one eye,
rather having two eyes,
00:44:30.03\00:44:32.33
to be cast into hellfire
00:44:32.37\00:44:34.54
where 'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'
00:44:34.57\00:44:37.27
" By the way here is
where he uses the word
00:44:37.31\00:44:39.37
be cast into
Gehenna, the city dump,
00:44:39.41\00:44:41.88
they kept it
burning all the time
00:44:41.91\00:44:44.21
so that it would
keep the gases down
00:44:44.25\00:44:46.15
and they were thrown
in old baskets and trash,
00:44:46.18\00:44:48.65
they were burning it.
00:44:48.68\00:44:50.05
And they had
dead animals in there.
00:44:50.09\00:44:51.72
There was worms, he talked
about the worm doesn't die,
00:44:51.75\00:44:53.66
it's always a
place of revolting.
00:44:53.72\00:44:57.33
But he says the
fire is not quenched.
00:44:57.39\00:45:00.23
If you're burning
garbage do you call the fireman
00:45:00.26\00:45:02.23
to put it out
or you let it burn?
00:45:02.26\00:45:05.57
Why do they call
it unquenchable fire?
00:45:05.60\00:45:09.34
Because you don't
want to quench the fire.
00:45:09.37\00:45:13.48
There's no firemen in hell.
00:45:13.51\00:45:17.75
Isn't that right?
00:45:17.78\00:45:19.81
And when the wicked are burned,
00:45:19.85\00:45:22.18
they're going to be burned
according to what they deserve.
00:45:22.22\00:45:24.85
Some is going to be quick,
some it's going to be longer.
00:45:24.89\00:45:26.99
The Bible actually says,
00:45:27.06\00:45:28.56
"Satan, day and
night for ever and ever."
00:45:28.59\00:45:30.13
And you're probably
wondering, what does that mean?
00:45:30.16\00:45:31.59
We'll better get to it.
00:45:31.63\00:45:32.96
Number 14.
00:45:32.99\00:45:34.30
"Doesn't the phrase
everlasting fire mean unending?"
00:45:34.36\00:45:38.33
Jude tells us in
verse 7, we read this,
00:45:38.37\00:45:40.50
"Sodom and
Gomorrah are set forth
00:45:40.54\00:45:42.57
for an example suffering
the vengeance of eternal fire."
00:45:42.60\00:45:46.44
That means what happens
through the fire is forever,
00:45:46.47\00:45:50.61
there will never
again be any wicked.
00:45:50.65\00:45:53.18
And you can go down
00:45:53.21\00:45:54.55
to the lowest
part of the earth now.
00:45:54.58\00:45:56.69
It's there in the Jordan Valley
00:45:56.75\00:45:58.09
where Sodom and
Gomorrah were once located
00:45:58.12\00:45:59.72
they're not burning
today, there's nothing there.
00:45:59.75\00:46:03.02
When Revelation 20:10 says,
00:46:03.06\00:46:04.76
"That the wicked
will be tormented
00:46:04.79\00:46:06.29
for ever and ever,
00:46:06.33\00:46:07.66
doesn't that
indicate endless time?"
00:46:07.66\00:46:11.23
Read in the Book of Jonah 2:6,
00:46:11.27\00:46:14.70
Jonah was in the
belly of the sea monster
00:46:14.74\00:46:17.51
and I bet you
that felt like Hades.
00:46:17.54\00:46:20.18
Can you imagine that?
00:46:20.21\00:46:21.88
I used to think
00:46:21.91\00:46:23.58
if Jonah somehow
was still alive inside
00:46:23.65\00:46:25.85
the digestive system
of that sea creature,
00:46:25.88\00:46:28.65
there might have
been other things
00:46:28.68\00:46:30.02
that were on the
menu still alive in there.
00:46:30.09\00:46:32.42
Had to be bad enough
00:46:32.45\00:46:34.06
if you can just imagine
being inside some monster
00:46:34.09\00:46:38.33
you're all in one piece
and then he decides to have
00:46:38.36\00:46:40.33
an appetizer and some dessert,
00:46:40.40\00:46:43.33
and in comes the sea urchin
in this stinking jellyfish
00:46:43.37\00:46:47.87
and bioluminescence flashing
and scaring you half to death.
00:46:47.90\00:46:51.34
And you're in there
00:46:51.37\00:46:52.87
and can you imagine
three days like that,
00:46:52.91\00:46:56.08
how long would have
that had seemed to you?
00:46:56.11\00:46:58.91
Have you ever said to someone
00:46:58.95\00:47:00.35
why I haven't
seen them for ever?
00:47:00.38\00:47:04.12
And then you might say
and they came over to my house
00:47:04.15\00:47:06.15
and I thought they
were going to stay forever.
00:47:06.19\00:47:08.29
But Jonah says,
00:47:12.63\00:47:14.83
"The earth with her
bars was around me forever."
00:47:14.86\00:47:16.77
But how long was he there?
00:47:16.80\00:47:18.13
You keep reading
same, in chapter 1 it says,
00:47:18.17\00:47:20.44
"Three days and three nights."
00:47:20.47\00:47:21.80
It did have a limit on it.
00:47:21.84\00:47:23.41
You can also read
in Revelation, it says,
00:47:23.44\00:47:25.07
"The smoke of
their torment ascends up.
00:47:25.11\00:47:27.18
Revelation 14:11,
"Forever and ever."
00:47:27.21\00:47:29.68
What does this mean?
00:47:29.71\00:47:31.05
Now first of all we
talked about the smoke.
00:47:31.08\00:47:32.61
I remember when I used to drive
across Texas I would see the...
00:47:32.65\00:47:35.95
Every 10 miles they had a city,
00:47:35.98\00:47:38.65
is started out as
a big farming state.
00:47:38.69\00:47:41.62
And all the
cities had their own dump
00:47:41.66\00:47:45.59
and people would burn the
trash in the 55 gallon drums
00:47:45.63\00:47:47.96
and eventually
when it filled up,
00:47:47.96\00:47:49.30
they take it
all, and they dump it.
00:47:49.33\00:47:50.67
But frequently it
was still smoldering
00:47:50.73\00:47:52.40
and wherever the dumps were,
00:47:52.43\00:47:53.80
you could see little rivulets
00:47:53.84\00:47:57.01
of smoke ascending up out
of sight forever and ever.
00:47:57.07\00:48:01.54
And so the smoke,
00:48:01.58\00:48:04.35
you remember what I said
about Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:48:04.38\00:48:06.01
Abraham looked and he saw
00:48:06.05\00:48:07.38
it was like the
smoke of a furnace,
00:48:07.45\00:48:08.78
it ascends up to heaven.
00:48:08.82\00:48:10.92
And so when the
wicked are all burned,
00:48:10.95\00:48:13.09
it's going to look
like Sodom and Gomorrah,
00:48:13.12\00:48:14.46
the smoke ascends
up forever and ever.
00:48:14.49\00:48:16.46
So what does this expression
forever and ever mean?
00:48:16.49\00:48:18.96
Now you got to be careful
00:48:18.99\00:48:20.33
'cause as soon
as you try to say,
00:48:20.36\00:48:21.66
well, forever
doesn't always mean forever.
00:48:21.70\00:48:23.03
People gonna say,
00:48:23.06\00:48:24.40
"Well, aren't we
getting life forever?
00:48:24.43\00:48:26.57
Does that mean our
eternal life is not forever?"
00:48:26.60\00:48:29.27
Now we're gonna
get eternal life,
00:48:29.30\00:48:30.64
you need to read
it in its context
00:48:30.71\00:48:32.04
but you can't deny there
are examples in the Bible
00:48:32.07\00:48:34.54
where it uses the word forever
and it had a definitive end.
00:48:34.58\00:48:39.41
For example, Exodus 21:6,
00:48:39.45\00:48:43.39
"If you had a
servant that you liked,
00:48:43.42\00:48:46.05
and he wanted to stay with you
00:48:46.09\00:48:47.46
even after he was
allowed to go free,
00:48:47.49\00:48:49.29
you went through
this ceremony and he says
00:48:49.32\00:48:51.36
he would be your
servant forever."
00:48:51.39\00:48:54.36
Well, that doesn't
mean even on into heaven,
00:48:54.36\00:48:55.86
it meant until you die.
00:48:55.90\00:48:58.00
When Hannah brought
Samuel to the temple,
00:48:58.03\00:49:00.40
she brought him to
abide there for ever.
00:49:00.47\00:49:03.64
Well, that was then she goes on,
00:49:03.67\00:49:05.04
she says in verse 28
and that was 1 Samuel 1:22.
00:49:05.07\00:49:07.88
Go to 1 Samuel 1:28.
00:49:07.91\00:49:09.34
That means as long as he
lives, that's what it says.
00:49:09.38\00:49:12.61
So forever meant
what? As long as he lives.
00:49:12.65\00:49:16.08
And the reason the
Bible uses a vague term
00:49:16.12\00:49:18.55
to describe the
punishment of the wicked
00:49:18.59\00:49:20.19
is 'cause it's
different for everybody,
00:49:20.22\00:49:22.29
people are going to get
different rewards, right?
00:49:22.32\00:49:25.23
Are there different
rewards even in heaven?
00:49:25.26\00:49:28.16
That's right.
00:49:28.20\00:49:29.53
And there are different
rewards for the wicked as well.
00:49:29.56\00:49:32.77
"Forever and ever is
a biblical expression
00:49:32.80\00:49:34.97
which means until
the end of the age,
00:49:35.00\00:49:37.61
it's not
necessarily an infinite,
00:49:37.64\00:49:39.24
unending length of time."
00:49:39.27\00:49:41.41
You need to read
that in its context.
00:49:41.44\00:49:43.18
Now when you run
00:49:43.21\00:49:44.55
into difficult verses like this,
00:49:44.58\00:49:45.91
you need to explain them.
00:49:45.95\00:49:47.32
Someone's going to say
to me, Well, Pastor Doug,
00:49:47.35\00:49:48.75
what about the parable of
the rich man and Lazarus?"
00:49:48.78\00:49:52.42
And it seems like
that poor beggar died
00:49:52.45\00:49:55.79
and the next thing he
knows he's in Abraham's bosom
00:49:55.82\00:49:58.46
but the rich man dies
00:49:58.49\00:50:00.30
who would not share his crumbs,
00:50:00.33\00:50:02.33
he goes to Hades
and he's in torment.
00:50:02.36\00:50:05.13
And he says he's in the flame
00:50:05.17\00:50:06.53
and he sent Lazarus with
a drop of water to cool me
00:50:06.57\00:50:09.40
from tormented in this flame.
00:50:09.44\00:50:11.04
And you can read about
that in the Gospel of Luke.
00:50:11.07\00:50:13.54
It only appears in Luke 16:19.
00:50:13.58\00:50:18.65
"That is a parable,
00:50:18.68\00:50:20.58
and Jesus uses
incredible paradoxes
00:50:20.62\00:50:24.39
in that parable."
00:50:24.42\00:50:25.95
You've got Lazarus who
represents the gentiles
00:50:25.99\00:50:28.66
who is outside
hungering for the crumbs
00:50:28.69\00:50:32.13
that fall from the
table of the rich man,
00:50:32.16\00:50:33.96
the Jewish nation
that has the bread of life.
00:50:34.00\00:50:36.36
They're feasting on the word
and arguing among themselves.
00:50:36.40\00:50:39.00
And the gentiles
were dying around them,
00:50:39.03\00:50:41.47
hungering for the crumbs.
00:50:41.50\00:50:42.90
Remember the gentile
woman came to Jesus, she said,
00:50:42.94\00:50:45.01
"Yeah, even the
puppies get the crumbs."
00:50:45.04\00:50:47.74
So it's pretty clear.
00:50:47.78\00:50:49.24
But what Jesus
does is very ironic,
00:50:49.28\00:50:51.45
it says,
00:50:51.48\00:50:52.81
"The poor beggar who
represents the gentiles he dies,
00:50:52.85\00:50:55.18
he goes to Abraham's bosom,
00:50:55.22\00:50:56.62
only time that's
used in the Bible.
00:50:56.65\00:50:58.15
Every Jew wanted to
be with father Abraham.
00:50:58.19\00:51:00.79
They want to sit down
00:51:00.86\00:51:02.19
in the kingdom with
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
00:51:02.22\00:51:04.33
And here Jesus has got,
00:51:04.36\00:51:05.99
the gentile going
to Abraham's bosom,
00:51:06.03\00:51:08.20
and the rich man dies
00:51:08.23\00:51:09.56
and he goes to the
Greek place of torment Hades."
00:51:09.60\00:51:13.74
All the Jews
understood Greek mythology.
00:51:13.80\00:51:16.34
If I were to tell you a
story right now and say,
00:51:16.37\00:51:18.14
"All right one day Alice
was walking in Wonderland."
00:51:18.17\00:51:21.11
You all know right away
00:51:21.14\00:51:22.94
because you're acquainted
with English fairytales
00:51:22.98\00:51:26.48
that I'm not serious,
00:51:26.51\00:51:27.85
I'm using an
illustration, right?
00:51:27.88\00:51:30.05
Jesus used the term
00:51:30.09\00:51:31.55
they all
understood, it's a parable.
00:51:31.59\00:51:34.79
So the idea that you die
00:51:34.82\00:51:36.16
and go right to heaven or hell
is not what He was teaching.
00:51:36.19\00:51:38.49
He was saying,
00:51:38.53\00:51:39.86
if you don't believe
Moses and the prophets,
00:51:39.89\00:51:41.36
then you won't be
persuaded that one should rise
00:51:41.40\00:51:42.76
from the dead
00:51:42.80\00:51:44.13
because remember in
the story, they said, oh,
00:51:44.20\00:51:46.20
but if Lazarus
would rise from the dead,
00:51:46.23\00:51:47.97
then my father's
house would believe.
00:51:48.00\00:51:50.97
He said, "Let them read
Moses and the prophets."
00:51:51.01\00:51:52.91
Jesus, it was a
parable for the Jewish nation
00:51:52.94\00:51:55.18
and for the church
00:51:55.21\00:51:57.31
that if we're not feeding those
00:51:57.38\00:51:58.71
who are hungering for the
truth that falls from our table,
00:51:58.75\00:52:00.92
we might find that
we're on the outside
00:52:00.95\00:52:03.25
and the ones who love
the truth are in the inside."
00:52:03.28\00:52:06.32
Has nothing to do with
the state of man and death
00:52:06.35\00:52:08.26
or hellfire in that parable.
00:52:08.29\00:52:11.46
And someone else is
going to be wondering
00:52:11.49\00:52:13.16
about the thief on the cross
00:52:13.19\00:52:16.30
and there we've
got some of these...
00:52:16.33\00:52:17.67
Oh, by the way
00:52:17.70\00:52:20.44
there's a website,
00:52:20.50\00:52:21.84
it's very popular,
it's called helltruth.com.
00:52:21.87\00:52:26.74
It's got all kinds
of studies and videos
00:52:26.78\00:52:28.68
and you can recommend it
to anybody helltruth.com.
00:52:28.71\00:52:31.55
We get a lot of
people that come there
00:52:31.58\00:52:33.18
and they learn the truth
about this and are happy.
00:52:33.21\00:52:36.28
Number 16,
00:52:36.32\00:52:37.65
"After sin and
sinners are destroyed,
00:52:37.69\00:52:40.62
what will Jesus
do for His people?"
00:52:40.66\00:52:43.32
Nevertheless we
according to His promise look
00:52:43.39\00:52:45.79
for a new heaven and a new earth
00:52:45.83\00:52:48.46
where indwells righteousness.
00:52:48.50\00:52:51.30
"And God will wipe away
all tears from their eyes,
00:52:51.33\00:52:54.74
and there will be no more death,
00:52:54.77\00:52:56.74
no more sorrow, no
more pain, no more crying,
00:52:56.77\00:52:59.71
neither shall
there be any more pain
00:52:59.74\00:53:01.31
for the former
things are passed away."
00:53:01.34\00:53:03.48
Bible says, "No more
pain. No more crying."
00:53:03.55\00:53:07.32
How can all things be made new
00:53:07.35\00:53:09.15
and there will
be a torture chamber
00:53:09.18\00:53:10.52
full of sinners crying in pain?
00:53:10.59\00:53:13.19
God is trying to
cleanse the universe from pain.
00:53:13.22\00:53:16.26
He doesn't want an
eternal place of pain.
00:53:16.29\00:53:18.96
He wants all
things to be made new.
00:53:18.99\00:53:21.56
And so the more and more
people even from other churches
00:53:21.60\00:53:25.80
are learning the
Bible truth about this.
00:53:25.83\00:53:27.44
This all came down
to us from mythology,
00:53:27.50\00:53:30.37
and church tradition
to try to scare people.
00:53:30.41\00:53:32.91
A lot of it was
used to manipulate people
00:53:32.94\00:53:35.21
and try to get
resources from them.
00:53:35.24\00:53:37.91
I remember years ago,
when I lived up in the cave.
00:53:37.95\00:53:40.88
That my cat caught
a little kangaroo rat,
00:53:40.92\00:53:44.79
it was right around dinnertime,
had a campfire going on.
00:53:44.82\00:53:47.72
And, you know,
00:53:47.76\00:53:49.09
cats are kind
of sadistic, a dog,
00:53:49.12\00:53:50.49
if he catches a
rat, one gulp it's gone.
00:53:50.53\00:53:53.16
A cat likes to
play with its food,
00:53:53.19\00:53:54.83
they like the
entertainment before dinner.
00:53:54.83\00:53:58.90
You know, they
catch, and they let it go,
00:53:58.93\00:54:00.44
and they battle, and
they jump on it again,
00:54:00.47\00:54:02.07
and then they let it
go and they carry it over
00:54:02.10\00:54:04.31
and they show
you they've got it,
00:54:04.34\00:54:05.67
and they let it
go, and they pound...
00:54:05.71\00:54:07.04
And I, you know,
00:54:07.08\00:54:08.41
my cat had to eat
so I didn't interfere
00:54:08.44\00:54:09.81
but he brought me
this kangaroo rat,
00:54:09.84\00:54:11.78
the poor thing was,
00:54:11.81\00:54:13.15
you know, all beat up and dazed
and my cat let go of it again
00:54:13.18\00:54:16.99
and it gave one final hop
00:54:17.02\00:54:18.35
except it hopped
into my campfire.
00:54:18.39\00:54:22.72
Listen to you.
00:54:22.76\00:54:26.43
I just talked about
the rat fallen in the fire,
00:54:26.46\00:54:28.70
you could not bear the thought
of a rat falling on a fire.
00:54:28.73\00:54:33.70
And yet some people think
this is what God's going to do.
00:54:33.74\00:54:38.24
Years ago,
00:54:38.27\00:54:41.98
my mother was very worried
00:54:42.01\00:54:43.35
because her daughter used
to walk two miles to school,
00:54:43.41\00:54:46.05
this was back when
the country was safe
00:54:46.08\00:54:48.12
and you could send
your kids off to school,
00:54:48.15\00:54:49.95
when the weather was good
00:54:49.98\00:54:51.32
she had her kids walk to school,
00:54:51.35\00:54:52.69
and she noticed that afternoon
the thunder clouds came up,
00:54:52.72\00:54:56.19
and there was a
tremendous lightning storm,
00:54:56.22\00:54:58.36
and she figured
based on the clock
00:54:58.39\00:55:00.13
that her daughter
was going to be caught
00:55:00.16\00:55:01.46
right out in the
middle of the plains
00:55:01.50\00:55:03.23
in this very
fierce violent lightning,
00:55:03.26\00:55:05.43
so she thought
she's going to be scared,
00:55:05.47\00:55:06.84
she's going to get
struck by lightning
00:55:06.87\00:55:08.94
and she hopped in the jalopy
00:55:08.97\00:55:10.44
and went down the road to
try to pick up her daughter.
00:55:10.51\00:55:12.47
And as she could
see over on the hills
00:55:12.51\00:55:14.18
her daughter
walking on the trail,
00:55:14.21\00:55:15.84
whenever there was
00:55:15.88\00:55:17.25
one of this
terrifying flashes of lighting,
00:55:17.28\00:55:18.68
her daughter would standstill,
00:55:18.71\00:55:21.12
she turned up to
the sky and she'd smile,
00:55:21.15\00:55:23.62
and then she start
walking down the road.
00:55:23.69\00:55:25.09
She saw two or
three times her daughter,
00:55:25.12\00:55:26.45
lighting would flash she'd stop,
00:55:26.49\00:55:27.82
she look up where
the flash came from,
00:55:27.86\00:55:29.19
and she'd smile,
as she keep walking.
00:55:29.22\00:55:30.93
Finally she got
up to her daughter
00:55:30.96\00:55:32.29
and, you know, at this
point rain's coming on she said,
00:55:32.33\00:55:34.36
"What in the
world were you doing?
00:55:34.36\00:55:35.70
I saw you every
time there's lightning
00:55:35.73\00:55:37.70
you turn around
and you'd smile."
00:55:37.73\00:55:40.00
She said, "Well,
I figured that God
00:55:40.04\00:55:41.37
was taking pictures and
I wanted to look pretty."
00:55:41.40\00:55:43.20
Now there is a kid
00:55:48.88\00:55:50.75
that has the right
idea of her heavenly Father.
00:55:50.81\00:55:55.52
She was not afraid,
00:55:55.55\00:55:57.62
God doesn't want
us to live in fear.
00:55:57.65\00:56:00.62
And you know my
heart goes out to people,
00:56:00.69\00:56:02.09
that's why I love this message
00:56:02.12\00:56:03.46
because when I
learned the truth about this,
00:56:03.49\00:56:05.89
for the first time
in my life I thought,
00:56:05.93\00:56:08.76
"I could be a Christian.
00:56:08.80\00:56:10.70
I think I could
love a God like this."
00:56:10.77\00:56:13.94
And I was so happy to
learn that the Lord Jesus died
00:56:13.97\00:56:17.97
to save us from the lake of fire
00:56:18.01\00:56:20.51
because He
doesn't want us to perish,
00:56:20.58\00:56:22.74
He wants us to
have eternal life.
00:56:22.78\00:56:25.08
And that He's going
to purify the universe
00:56:25.11\00:56:26.95
and there's going
to be no more pain.
00:56:27.02\00:56:28.92
The wicked are going to be gone.
00:56:28.95\00:56:30.79
How could you
ever enjoy eternity
00:56:30.82\00:56:32.72
if lost people
that you may have known
00:56:32.75\00:56:34.76
and loved are
outside some torture chamber,
00:56:34.79\00:56:38.26
burning through eternity?
00:56:38.29\00:56:39.63
Will God erase
all natural emotion
00:56:39.66\00:56:41.20
from our hearts?
00:56:41.23\00:56:43.13
No, God is going to
deal with it in a just
00:56:43.16\00:56:45.17
and a loving way where
we will be able to trust
00:56:45.20\00:56:47.20
and love Him all
through eternity.
00:56:47.24\00:56:49.27
Amen.
00:56:49.30\00:56:50.67
And don't you want
to do that, friends?
00:56:50.71\00:56:52.04
Amen. God is good, God is love.
00:56:52.07\00:56:55.01
And we need to get
the truth about this out
00:56:55.04\00:56:56.85
'cause a lot of people
are living lives of fear
00:56:56.91\00:56:58.75
and they can't
trust and love God.
00:56:58.78\00:57:01.62
And I'd like to just
pray with you as we close
00:57:01.65\00:57:03.82
that we can have
that relationship.
00:57:03.85\00:57:06.79
Father in heaven,
00:57:06.82\00:57:08.16
we are so
thankful for the truth,
00:57:08.19\00:57:10.29
that shows You are a loving God,
00:57:10.36\00:57:12.33
the truth that sets us free.
00:57:12.36\00:57:14.30
Help us all come to
know Jesus in that way.
00:57:14.36\00:57:17.27
I pray for all
those that are listening,
00:57:17.30\00:57:18.80
or watching that they might know
00:57:18.83\00:57:20.54
that You are just a God of love.
00:57:20.57\00:57:22.27
There is a reward to be had,
00:57:22.30\00:57:24.57
eternal life and
the lost will perish.
00:57:24.61\00:57:27.21
Help us to choose Jesus in life,
00:57:27.28\00:57:29.44
in His name we pray...
00:57:29.48\00:57:30.85
Amen. Amen.
00:57:30.88\00:57:32.21