Participants: Jim Gilley (Host), Danny Shelton (Host), Dwight Nelson, John Lomacang, Shelley Quinn, Stephen Bohr, C.A. Murray
Series Code: 13SCM
Program Code: 13SCM000009
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00:30 Well hello and welcome! This is our panel tonight...
00:34 the second part of our program. 00:37 We just had a wonderful message by Pastor Dwight Nelson. 00:41 And after our panel then Pastor Stephen Bohr 00:45 will be bringing our third message tonight. 00:49 But Danny's over on the right side; I'm on the left side. 00:53 There's no significance to that whatsoever, 00:55 but we are gathering questions 01:00 and if you from the audience... I don't know how we can get 01:03 questions in from television land or not. 01:06 Maybe you can e-mail them to questions. 01:09 If we'll ever get a hold of them we'll surely ask them. 01:11 But the live audience here is working out some questions 01:15 to ask our ex... I started to say extinguished. 01:19 It's distinguished. No... DISTINGUISHED. 01:21 Yeah, distinguished. There's a difference there. 01:24 I had the wrong word. You've got to be careful with words. 01:27 Experts, too. You don't want to call them experts 01:29 because when you break that down: ex is a has been 01:32 and a spurt is a drip under pressure. 01:34 OK. So they're not experts either... 01:36 they're just well-qualified - they really are - Bible 01:40 students. Yeah. All right. You want to introduce them? 01:43 Do you have a question already? Well we do. Why don't you 01:45 introduce for our television audience. Well all right. 01:48 This is Pastor Dwight Nelson, Pioneer Memorial Church, 01:51 and you've heard him speak already here. 01:53 Ya'll blessed by Bro. Dwight? Let him know about it, 01:55 all right? All right! Amen. 01:57 And Pastor John Lomacang, Pastor of the Thompsonville 02:00 Church - all right - a regular here. 02:03 Shelley Quinn with 3ABN. 02:06 And everybody knows Shelley around the world. 02:09 Pastor Stephen Bohr, Fresno, California. 02:12 And head of the... what's the name of that ministry, Stephen? 02:17 Secrets Unsealed. All right. 02:19 And then... I didn't want to mess up the language there, 02:24 you know. And then Pastor... What's your name, sir? 02:29 Pastor C.A. Murray. Dr. C.A. Murray. 02:31 All right? Dr. C.A. Murray. Dr. C.A. Murray. 02:34 We've got a great panel and we have a great audience tonight. 02:37 We do! This is a wonderful audience. 02:40 It's great. We want to... What we want to do... 02:42 We want to have a prayer. I'm going to ask Pastor John 02:44 if he would say a short prayer. And we're going to ask 02:46 God's blessing, anointing, on this panel and 02:49 upon the Holy Spirit tonight because there are questions 02:52 that many of us have. And we rarely have the opportunity 02:56 to have this many folk in front of us 02:58 who are such Bible students that can help us with these. 03:02 So we're going to ask the Lord to really bless 03:04 not only what they say but bless our hearing also. 03:07 Pastor John. Heavenly Father, we thank you 03:10 for the opportunity as frail human beings 03:12 to become the vessels now 03:13 through which Your Holy Spirit works. 03:16 Give wisdom and understanding that every answer given 03:19 may honor and glorify Your name. 03:20 In Jesus' name, Amen. Amen; amen. 03:24 OK, the first question... We got a couple before we 03:27 came out here, so the rest of you here in the audience 03:29 please write your question and then raise your hand 03:32 and they'll pick them up for you 03:34 and bring them to Pastor Jim and I. 03:37 The first question for our panel tonight is this: 03:40 Is it harder to be saved or lost or is it easier 03:46 to be saved than lost. Maybe I should word that. 03:49 Is it easier to be saved than lost? 03:53 I'm hearing a little reaction from the audience 03:56 from laughing to quiet to I'm not sure. 03:59 It's a good question. Shelley, you going to start that off? 04:01 Your mike's up there. 04:03 Well the thought that comes to my mind is everywhere I look 04:08 I see evidence of God. 04:10 And it would be to me absolutely foreign 04:16 to think that someone wouldn't know that there is 04:22 a Creator... someone who designed the earth. 04:26 And of course they have to hear the message 04:31 I suppose to know, truly, but I'm thinking of the 04:35 missionaries who come back and tell of tribes in Africa 04:40 where no one had ever been before 04:42 where people celebrate the Sabbath and they know about God. 04:47 And I believe that God is reaching out 04:50 to people everywhere and I think it is easier 04:55 to be saved because if we really accept His gifts of grace: 05:00 the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, 05:03 and we see His Word, God's plan is to be totally 05:07 dependent upon Him. And we find that to me 05:12 it's easier to be saved than it is to be lost. 05:14 OK... somebody else. 05:16 I come down on the side it's easier to be saved. 05:20 Ephesians 2:10 says we are created by God for good works. 05:24 We are His craftsman... His handiwork. 05:26 Created for good works. 05:27 And I'm looking at II Corinthians 2:14. 05:32 "Now thanks be to God who always leads us 05:35 in triumph in Christ and through us diffuses 05:38 the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. " 05:40 So victory is guaranteed in Christ Jesus. 05:43 We are created for good works. 05:45 We are created to be like Him. 05:47 Pastor Bohr said something backstage. 05:49 We were just talking on another subject. 05:51 But he talked about the problem is not God's ability... 05:54 it's our willingness to surrender. 05:56 And if we will cooperate with Him, 05:59 salvation is guaranteed. 06:01 OK. I think, Danny, that one of the problems is 06:06 that we reverse the order when it comes to salvation. 06:11 We think that we need to perform in order to be saved - oh, oh - 06:16 instead of the idea that when we come to Christ 06:19 and we yield, we are saved and then our performance changes. 06:24 Wow! Would you say that again? That's really deep. 06:26 I mean, that's something that a lot of us seem to be missing. 06:29 I think Adventists are pretty much performance oriented. 06:32 Hmmm. I'm all for performance, 06:35 but performance or works have to come from a relationship 06:38 with Christ. OK. And in order to have 06:40 a relationship with Christ I have to yield my will to Him. 06:43 Wow. When I yield my will to Him, 06:45 then in my life I perform His will - OK - 06:49 because He's in control of my will. 06:50 Ya'll agree with that here? OK. 06:52 Well the statement I'd like to make is 06:55 found in Hebrews 7 and verse 25. 06:58 I like to approach it from the perspective of 07:01 is there anyone that Jesus cannot save? 07:03 And according to this text, no. No matter what you have done 07:07 you can be saved if you simply submit your life to Him. 07:11 And the question is: "How completely can He save you? " 07:13 And the Bible says in Hebrews 7:25 07:16 "Therefore He is able to save to the uttermost. " 07:20 OK. Coming from New York City we used to say 07:22 "From the guttermost to the uttermost. " 07:26 So it's not how far down you are... 07:29 but the question is: "How far down can God reach? " 07:32 He can reach to the uttermost. 07:34 He'll save to the uttermost those who come to God 07:37 through Him. And then one more text in Hebrews 8. 07:39 Hebrews 9 and verse 12 and 13. 07:42 "Not with the blood of goats and calves but with His own blood 07:46 He entered the Most Holy Place 07:48 once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. " 07:50 And get this: this is always a text to rejoice. 07:53 "For if the blood of bulls and goats and ashes of 07:56 a heifer sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh 08:01 how much more shall the blood of Christ 08:05 who through the eternal Spirit 08:07 offered Himself without spot to God 08:09 purge your conscience from dead works 08:12 to serve the living God. " 08:13 There's nothing that He cannot do 08:16 if we simply submit. He can save every one of us 08:18 no matter what the sin to the uttermost. 08:20 That means completely. 08:22 Danny, let me just be the last on this one. 08:25 And John, I love that "how much more" line. 08:29 It reminds me of these words of Jesus here in Matthew 7 08:33 in the Sermon on the Mount. "If you then, being evil, 08:36 know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more 08:40 will your Father in heaven give good things 08:43 to those who ask Him. " 08:44 I don't know a parent on earth who tries to make it more 08:47 difficult for his children to love him. 08:49 Every father I know, every mother I know 08:53 is just wide open in the embrace 08:57 of those precious children. 08:58 I cannot imagine the God of heaven, 09:00 the Father of the universe, trying to make it tough 09:04 for His kids to make it in His family. 09:06 If you're evil and you do what's right for your children, 09:09 how much more will the Father of us all 09:12 throw open those arms and draw us. 09:14 Now look, we have free choice. We can say "No. " 09:16 Right? We can say "No. " 09:18 But if you say "Yes, " those arms are around you 09:20 in that instant. All right... praise the Lord. 09:23 That's good news, right. If I could just add one thing, 09:25 because John came from Hebrews also. 09:28 I think the book of Hebrews was written to assure 09:30 men and women that Jesus is the real deal. 09:33 He is not sham; He is not fake; He is not pretend. 09:37 There is a real value in surrendering your life 09:39 to Christ. And if you think there is any other way, 09:41 the power is in Christ Jesus. 09:44 And that book of Hebrews was written to assure us 09:47 that Christ is the real deal. 09:49 And when you surrender to Him and fall upon Him 09:52 He can carry you... He can sustain you. 09:55 All right... thank you. 09:56 Could I say one thing? Shelley, all right. Real short 09:58 now... we've got a bunch more questions. 10:00 Let's don't do one question all night long, but 10:02 I just have to add this one because I was coming 10:04 from a different direction. I Thessalonians 5:23-24 says: 10:10 "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you 10:14 completely. " It's God's job. 10:17 "And may your whole spirit, soul, and body 10:19 be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord 10:21 Jesus Christ. He who calls you 10:25 is faithful; He will do it. " 10:29 As you said, it's all about surrender. 10:32 It's God... salvation belongs to God. 10:35 Amen. That's great news tonight, right folks? 10:38 Bro. Jim. All right, somebody gave me a question 10:41 and they asked me if we were going to get to it. 10:44 At this rate I don't think so. 10:47 But that is a very important question that you've just been 10:52 talking about. Now this is sort of a follow-up to it 10:56 from someone who writes and says 10:59 "As long as I believe in Jesus 11:01 do I have to become a Seventh-day Adventist 11:04 to be saved? " 11:08 Do you want to just say "No" and go on? Or do you want to 11:12 pontificate? OK, Stephen. 11:15 The Seventh-day Adventist Church has always believed 11:19 that there are going to be people saved from not only 11:23 other Christian churches 11:25 but also from non-Christian churches or organizations. 11:32 We don't believe that salvation is exclusively Adventist. 11:36 However, we do believe that when a person 11:39 comes face to face with the truth of God's Word - 11:43 truth that perhaps people didn't know before - 11:45 if they're submitted to Christ and they love Jesus 11:48 they're going to walk with Jesus and they're going to embrace 11:51 those truths. And some of those truths are for example 11:53 the Sabbath; the idea that when a person dies they're dead 11:57 until Jesus comes with His power to resurrect them; 11:59 the idea of living a healthful life so we can have 12:02 a clear mind to communicate better with Jesus. 12:06 In other words, those things don't save us 12:09 but a saved person will want to do those things 12:12 because they are in harmony with the will of Christ. 12:14 All right, John. 12:16 I like to say it this way: a lot of people would add 12:18 to that a thing that they haven't said. 12:20 They'll say: "Well do you think you have the truth? " 12:22 I always say "No. " 12:24 I say: "The truth has us. " 12:27 We are too small to have the truth. 12:30 The truth has us. 12:32 I'm where I am because the truth drew me. 12:35 I'm not where I am because of a label. 12:38 I went looking for truth. 12:39 If I go looking for St. Thomas, 12:42 I'll end up in the Virgin Islands. 12:44 If I go looking to Eastern Europe, 12:46 I could end up in Russia or Ukraine. 12:49 It's what you're looking for. 12:51 If you're looking for the truth, the truth draws you. 12:54 The Holy Spirit does the drawing. 12:56 And He who has drawn me... And I'll just give 12:59 a little small testimony. I went to different churches 13:03 to see if I could still be a disc jockey and be saved. 13:07 I went to three, and I came up with the answer "No. " 13:12 And so here I am... not because I believe I have the truth 13:15 but the truth has me. All right. 13:17 Good good answer. Anybody else? 13:20 OK. Next question. All right. 13:24 This one says: "Will the final death of the wicked 13:26 be from the same experience as Jesus on the cross? 13:31 Or will they die from the flames or of the knowledge 13:35 they are eternally forsaken? 13:37 What destroys the wicked in the end? 13:42 Danny, let me respond to that since we just came out of 13:45 a study on Calvary. 13:48 I believe with all my heart that what Jesus was experiencing 13:51 on the cross IS the second death. 13:54 He was paying the wage. 13:56 The wage of the second death is not death by fire. 14:00 The wage of the second death is eternal separation 14:04 from the life source. 14:06 God is the source of all life. 14:08 I have been in many a hospital room and I know the pastors 14:11 on this - and Shelley as well - 14:14 have had this experience in an ICU unit where you are 14:17 standing beside... by the side of someone 14:20 whose life is being sustained mechanically. 14:24 The respirator is breathing for the individual. 14:30 That person is alive simply because of the 14:33 life-support system. 14:34 I've been in that ICU room when the family made the decision, 14:38 Pastor Steve, to... as we say... "pull the plug. " 14:42 And the technician walked in. We were singing songs 14:45 together. Papa went through an open-heart surgery 14:47 that went bad. And we stood there 14:51 as that technician walked over to that piece of machinery 14:54 and clicked the button. 14:58 That life-support system is what infused life. 15:04 If we can imagine God as the ultimate... 15:06 the eternal life-support system, 15:08 He is the source of life for the whole universe, 15:10 death is when we pull the plug. 15:12 God doesn't pull the plug on us. 15:14 We pull the plug. We choose to live separately 15:19 from the Son. 15:21 I John 5: "She who has the Son has life... 15:24 he who does not have the Son does not... " What? 15:27 You're not in the life-support system. 15:30 And I don't believe that hell is about God... God using 15:35 fire to extinguish life. 15:37 Calvary is proof enough. 15:38 Your heart breaks when you realize 15:41 that you are being separated from the Father. 15:43 Jesus died of a broken heart. And I believe 15:45 all the children of the Father - they are still His children - 15:48 they are not dogs now... they are not animals now. 15:51 They are His children. 15:52 They will die in the same way Jesus died. 15:55 The life-support system will be shut off. 15:58 The heart will break. 16:00 Satan will be the last to acknowledge... the last to 16:04 acknowledge that he has lived in rebellion against Him 16:08 who is life... but his heart will break. 16:11 Of course there's fire. 16:13 The whole earth is re-created by that fire. 16:16 It's purified. And then God says... 16:18 John says: "I saw a new heaven and a new earth. " 16:21 You know, I was watching in part the Jody Arias trial. 16:25 Some of you have seen that. 16:26 And I did that for a particular reason. 16:28 Not to glory in what was happening but 16:30 I cannot forget... they're still in the penalty phase now 16:33 even though the verdict has been reached... 16:35 the words that she has echoed repeatedly: 16:38 "I'd rather die... " That was the early statement. 16:41 "than spend my life because that to me is worse. " 16:46 And I think that what she was saying there is what 16:48 is echoed here in Psalm 112 and verse 10. 16:52 I believe that hell is, first of all, realizing what you've 16:55 lost. You see, being alive brings a greater reality 17:00 of what you've lost than your life being extinguished 17:03 where there is no knowledge of what you've lost. 17:06 And in the book of Psalms 112 and verse 10 17:10 it says: "The wicked will see it and be grieved. 17:14 He will gnash his teeth and melt away. 17:18 The desire of the wicked shall perish. " 17:21 And that connects to Matthew 25 where it says 17:24 that the unprofitable servant will be cast in outer darkness. 17:27 That there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 17:29 The weeping and gnashing of teeth is more hell 17:31 than being destroyed in the fires of hell. 17:35 When you realize you've missed your flight 17:37 it's the worst thing than anything else. 17:40 When you realize the doors are shut 17:43 and there's no second chance 17:44 it is more hell than the actual destruction itself. 17:49 I'd just like to follow up on something that Pastor Dwight 17:52 had to say. 17:54 You know, Jesus - when He was in the Garden of Gethsemane - 17:58 would have died in the garden before anyone placed one finger 18:02 on Him... which means that He did not die from the wounds 18:07 that He had. He would have died 18:09 simply because of the weight of sin that He was carrying. 18:12 And I think that the good news here is not so much... 18:15 You know, I believe the fire ultimately is going to consume 18:18 the wicked, but the good news is that Jesus suffered 18:23 that experience of separation from God 18:26 so that we don't have to suffer it. 18:28 The wicked will suffer their own experience... 18:31 their own experience of separation from God 18:33 because they didn't accept Christ 18:35 who suffered that experience for them. 18:37 And so we need to make sure that we receive Christ 18:40 as our Savior and we'll never go through that experience 18:43 because He did. 18:44 Stephen, not to prolong this too much, but think of 18:47 all the tithe you've paid into the church. 18:50 Think of all the meetings you've paid... all the songs 18:53 that you've sung, Pastor John. 18:54 All the sermons you guys have preached. 18:56 All the time and preparation. 18:58 All the times you've denied yourself. 19:00 All the times someone has said something really stupid to you 19:03 and you wanted to say something back but you didn't 19:05 because you're a Christian. 19:06 And you didn't say anything... you just took it 19:09 and you swallowed it. 19:10 And the times when somebody cut you off and you didn't curse, 19:13 you didn't say anything, you just took it 19:15 'cause you're a Christian. And the times when somebody 19:17 cheated you or robbed you and you didn't say anything, 19:19 you just took it because you're a Christian. 19:21 And you spent all of that time controlling yourself 19:24 and holding onto yourself but you never really 19:26 got a hold of Jesus and you come down to the last day 19:29 thinking you're ready to go up and you hear the voice 19:31 "Depart from Me; I know you not" 19:33 or you run away from Him and hide because you cannot 19:35 stand the brightness, you cannot stand the light. 19:38 think of the agony that will be. 19:41 Think what you feel sitting here now... what you 19:43 felt while Pastor Dwight was preaching, 19:45 what you will feel when Pastor Bohr is preaching. 19:47 To go through all of that and get down to Judgment Day 19:50 and not be ready and not be prepared. 19:52 I rather think the fire will be a welcome relief 19:56 rather than having to face the Jesus that you have disappointed 19:59 that you have let down, that you are not ready to see. 20:01 You talk about hell? That's what hell is 20:04 is separation from the Life Giver. 20:06 And that will be much more devastating than any fire 20:09 that could ever burn. Now the follow-up to that question 20:12 here, if I can read this 'cause it's really pretty much 20:15 related. It says: "The sanctuary lamb died 20:18 by bleeding to death. Jesus died on the cross 20:22 with an exploding heart, bleeding to death. 20:25 Will not the wicked die convicted of their chosen life 20:30 of sin of a broken, shattered heart 20:34 and that the fire is just to clean up the mess. " 20:39 I don't know if that's a question or a statement 20:42 but it's right on this subject we're talking about. 20:45 I wanted to interject it here. 20:47 I think that would be a pretty good description. 20:49 You know, I'd just like to mention something about 20:53 the previous question. 20:55 You know, I was listening to Dwight's sermon 20:58 in the back room as we were preparing to come out 21:01 and I noticed that he read several statements from 21:03 the chapter Gethsemane in Desire of Ages. 21:07 There Ellen White clearly says that Jesus felt like 21:11 sinners who are lost will feel at the end. 21:14 They're going to feel the agony; they could have been saved 21:17 and they're going to be eternally separated from God. 21:19 That is the great anguish of the second death. 21:21 You know, it's like the experience of Jonah 21:24 in the belly of the fish. 21:26 You know, he felt like he would never, never see the face of God 21:30 again. And of course, he's symbolic of the experience 21:32 that Christ went through. 21:34 So, you know, fire will clean up the mess 21:37 but the anguish that comes before that 21:40 of being separated from God as Jack Sequeira used to say 21:44 "saying goodbye to life forever. " 21:45 That's where it is. 21:48 OK. I want to continue this because it's such an important 21:53 topic. Right now there are people watching. They're saying: 21:56 "Why are they talking about how they're dying a death? 21:59 They burn forever. " 22:01 I mean, people burn forever. That's what a lot of people 22:04 think. Isn't it great news that God 22:08 is not in the business of torturing and tormenting 22:10 people for eternity? 22:12 And when you tell people that I am amazed that most people 22:15 get upset. So I asked one Christian I was talking to... 22:18 He saw me in town and he said: 22:21 "You've got to get onto your preachers out there. " 22:24 Stephen Bohr was one of those. He said: 22:26 "That guy preaches that there's no eternal burning hell! " 22:30 And he said: "You need to talk to him or get him off the air. 22:33 That's terrible! " And I said... 22:35 I said: "But isn't that good news? " 22:37 And he said: "No, that's not good news. " 22:39 I said: "That's not good news? Why not? " 22:42 And here's what he said: 22:43 "Because I'm a preacher and how else you gonna get 22:46 people saved if you can't tell them that they're going to burn 22:49 forever? How you gonna get them saved? " 22:52 How would you answer that, Steve? Since that's a question: 22:54 "How you gonna get people saved if you don't preach 22:58 that they're going to burn forever? " 22:59 The Bible tells us that we're saved by righteousness by faith 23:02 not righteousness by fear. 23:04 OK... all right. 23:05 Danny, could I add something to that that to me just makes 23:08 all the sense in the world. 23:10 The Bible says that only God is immortal. 23:13 Only God has immortality. 23:16 Created beings do not have. 23:18 We will not put on immortality until the end. 23:22 So the word "forever" is a word that describes a period of time. 23:28 When we're talking about Christ reigning forever and ever 23:32 because He is immortal 23:34 there will not be an end to His reign. 23:37 But when it talks about Sodom and Gomorrah burning forever 23:41 or hell burning forever 23:43 because we are mortal and they are mortal 23:47 there will be and end to that time. 23:50 When destruction is complete that's the end of it. 23:54 And I was baptized because of fear of going to hell 24:00 when I was a child. 24:01 Three times I was baptized from the fear of going to hell. 24:05 Fear is only a temporary motivator. 24:09 It is love and a changed heart 24:12 and a relationship with God that keeps people in the church. 24:16 Sounds like Shelley had more saves than a relief pitcher 24:18 in the major leagues. So... 24:22 You know, part of the process of... 24:26 the purpose for the fire is not so much for the wicked 24:29 but for the righteous. 24:30 You see, as God erases sin and every memory of it 24:35 He creates a perfect environment for the righteous. 24:38 He's not perpetuating sin... He's perpetuating righteousness. 24:43 Eternal burning is a perpetuation of sin. 24:47 And the product of destruction 24:51 is not the process of destruction. 24:53 So the product is they are eternally gone... 24:57 not the process. 24:59 So this whole process of eternal... People often forget 25:01 the verses right before that. "Fire came down from God 25:04 out of heaven and devoured them. " 25:06 The Lord is not looking forward for there to be a smoking 25:09 eternity but where there is no memory. No more pain, 25:15 no more death... for the former things shall not be remembered 25:18 nor come to mind. How will they not be remembered 25:20 if my uncle or family members are still burning and withering 25:24 in the fires of hell somewhere on earth? 25:26 And whenever I ask that question: "Where is hell? " 25:28 people say: "Somewhere. " 25:30 They can never find the location. 25:33 But it's the whole earth before sin is destroyed. 25:38 Just very quickly there are two texts in Ezekiel 25:41 that say "the soul that sins shall die. " 25:43 Most of those texts - I think there are three 25:46 that pop into my mind - that seem to say that we burn 25:49 forever come from Revelation. 25:51 And just as a point of when you're trying to determine 25:55 what the Bible says you need to look at the book. 25:57 You don't want to develop hard doctrinal premises 26:01 from texts that just come from the book of Revelation. 26:03 You need to go through the whole constellation of texts 26:07 to try to find your doctrinal premise. 26:09 In a book that has so much illusion, 26:13 so many things that are representative of other things, 26:16 you need to be very, very careful when you try to develop 26:20 a doctrinal premise from the book of Revelation 26:22 alone. If you see a parallel in other places, 26:25 then you can plant your feet down. 26:26 But if it's only in Revelation you want to be really, really 26:29 careful before you try to develop a doctrine from that. 26:32 Danny, let me come back just one more time. 26:34 There is a verse... I'm sure these seasoned evangelists 26:38 have used this verse before 26:39 but I never knew it was in the Bible. 26:40 I just found it within the last 18 months. 26:44 This is over here in Jeremiah chapter 51 verse 57. 26:49 This is so powerful. 26:51 God is describing the end 26:54 of those who have walked away from Him. 26:57 And here is His description: Jeremiah 51:57. 27:01 "And they shall sleep a perpetual sleep 27:05 and not awake says the King 27:08 whose name is the Lord of Hosts. " 27:10 The TNIV... the New NIV renders it: 27:13 "And they will sleep forever. " 27:15 That's what we believe the Bible teaches about hell: 27:19 you go to sleep forever and ever. Amen. 27:21 All right. That's good news, right? 27:24 Steve's got his mike up. One more comment 27:26 then we'll go to Jim. 27:29 Well I have a little different concept. 27:32 I believe that the fire that consumes the wicked 27:36 is eternal but the wicked are not eternal. 27:40 That's right. See, the fire that consumes the wicked 27:42 is the glory of God. 27:44 Um-hmm. Let me just read Exodus 24 27:48 and verse 17. It's speaking about the fire 27:51 on Mt. Sinai. 27:53 It says: "The sight of the glory of the Lord... " 27:55 Notice... of the glory of the Lord... 27:58 "was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain 28:02 in the eyes of the children of Israel. " 28:04 So the consuming fire is the glory of the Lord. 28:08 You know, those who believe that the wicked are going to 28:11 burn in hell forever... they've got it wrong! 28:15 It's the righteous that are going to live in the midst 28:17 of the flames forever. OK. 28:20 You say: "Where does the Bible teach that? " 28:22 In Isaiah 33. 28:24 It says in verse 14: "The sinners in Zion are afraid, 28:27 fearfulness has seized the hypocrites. " 28:29 And then asks the question: "Who among us shall dwell 28:32 with the devouring fire? 28:34 Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? " 28:38 Notice the answer: 28:39 "He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly. 28:43 He who despises the gain of oppression, 28:45 who gestures with his hands refusing bribes, 28:48 who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed 28:51 and shuts his eyes from seeing evil. " 28:53 It's the righteous that will live in the midst of the fire 28:56 because the glory of God is the consuming fire. 28:58 Wow! The fire is eternal 29:00 but that which the fire consumes is not eternal. 29:04 OK, thank you. I had my Bible open to that just last week. 29:07 I've got my paper still here. Appreciate that. 29:09 All right. Bro. Jim. Well these are really good answers. 29:13 And now this question is one that we run into from time 29:17 to time: "Should we observe the feasts and festivals 29:22 and if we should, why should we or why not? " 29:31 All right. Who goes first? John? 29:34 First John. All right. 29:39 It's funny that you asked that question. 29:41 I was up in Minnesota... I was making that reference 29:44 this morning... and I did a little more than an hour 29:47 presentation: Feast Days or Not. Yeah. 29:51 And I asked a question that couldn't be answered. 29:54 And I asked just a general question - much longer - 29:57 but I just want to put this one out there. 29:58 I thought it was an apex of the whole thing. 30:00 We are living in the anti-typical Day of Atonement. 30:05 We are living in the what? Say this together: the... 30:09 And so when did the anti- typical Day of Atonement begin? 30:17 1844. 30:19 When will it end? 30:22 So can type and antitype exist together is the question. 30:28 And my answer is "No. " 30:30 You see, all the types pointed to the coming of the antitype. 30:35 All the feasts were symbols and signs and object lessons 30:41 of what the work of Christ would accomplish. 30:44 And so they all pointed to the coming Messiah. 30:47 And the big argument is people say that when the Bible 30:50 says in Colossians 2 "Let no one judge you 30:53 of meats and drinks and new moons and Sabbath days" 30:56 the big argument among many of those who observe the feasts 30:59 is that that doesn't refer to the feasts. 31:02 But new moons, holy days, Sabbath days, 31:06 all refer to the feasts. So the answer in a nutshell 31:08 to me is: "No, we are in the antitype. " 31:11 The types all led up to the antitype. 31:16 The lamb... to Christ. 31:18 All the feasts, all their works, led to 31:20 the work that Christ would accomplish. 31:22 And there's a statement. I'm going to let some of the 31:24 other brethren speak. I'll look for it here 31:25 and just share it with you in just a moment. 31:29 OK, it's... Dwight. I'm not going to shed any light 31:32 on this, but if the Creator of the universe 31:35 has had a difficult time getting His earth children 31:38 to remember one day - 31:42 all right, come on - 31:43 how in the world is He going to get 7 billion children 31:47 to remember 7 or 9 holy days? 31:51 It's just... And John's answer. 31:53 That didn't answer the question but John's point is well taken. 31:56 They were shadows pointing forward to the culmination. 32:00 Once in a while I get a letter from some dear friend of Jesus 32:04 somewhere on earth saying 32:06 "I think we've got to go back to the feasts. " 32:09 Why go back to that which has been fulfilled? 32:12 We need to keep our eyes on the great feast of the 32:15 Lamb's Supper in heaven. 32:17 That's the feast we're looking forward to. 32:19 All right, thank you. All right... Steve. 32:22 Yes. In the prophecy of the 70 weeks 32:26 there's a very interesting little phrase. 32:29 It says that He shall bring... this is verse 27 of Daniel 9... 32:33 "He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. " 32:37 In the King James it says "He shall cause 32:42 the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. " 32:45 Now there's something that maybe we've missed here, 32:48 and that's the comment that Ellen White makes 32:50 in Desire of Ages 32:52 where she says that the priest had the knife in his hand. 32:56 He was ready to slit the throat of the lamb. 32:59 And then you had the earthquake 33:01 and the lamb escaped and the lamb never died 33:04 because the real Lamb of God died at that moment. 33:08 God was trying to say: "No more sacrifice of lambs 33:12 because the real Lamb has died. " 33:14 And so Ellen White says that to celebrate the Passover 33:18 would be an insult to Jehovah. 33:21 I mean that's a very strong expression. 33:23 And you know, if He doesn't require to celebrate 33:25 the Passover, I don't think that He would require us to do 33:29 any of the other feasts that have already been fulfilled. 33:32 And I want to add to that. Thank you so much 33:34 for bringing that point. It appears in this statement 33:38 Ellen White makes, she says... speaking of Christ and the 33:40 disciples she says: "This was virtually 33:43 the last Passover that was ever to be celebrated 33:47 for type was to meet antitype 33:49 in the slaying of the Lamb of God for the sins of the world. " 33:52 Also study further into that and people say: "Paul the 33:55 apostle kept the feasts for a short time. " 33:57 He used the feasts - and read what she says - 33:59 he used the feasts to teach the work of Christ 34:03 but he never imposed the keeping of feasts 34:05 on the New Testament church. 34:07 So no, I don't believe that the feasts 34:09 should be... continue to be kept. 34:10 You know, there was the celebration of a feast 34:12 say by the apostle Paul was really descriptive 34:15 not prescriptive. Correct. In other words, 34:17 he simply because he was a Jew and he knew that Jews would be 34:20 celebrating the feasts, you know, he went because 34:22 he knew he would find them there. 34:24 OK, Danny. All right. Let's move on. 34:27 This one says: "My son is starting college. 34:30 And how can we as parents continue to guide him 34:33 towards the truth as he begins to become more independent? " 34:38 I can answer that one: send him to Andrews University 34:41 and Bro. Dwight Nelson will be his pastor. 34:44 All right. 34:48 That'll work. 34:50 Dwight, you have dealt with thousands of young people. 34:54 How would you answer these parents? 34:57 It is a tough 35:02 crossing for a parent to relinquish 35:06 his or her child to independence and to free choice. 35:10 God does it with every one of us. 35:12 It's a tough moment when God says: "All right, 35:15 you're free to choose. " 35:17 The most critical weapon a parent possesses 35:22 are these two pieces of the anatomy right here. 35:26 I am absolutely convinced that parental prayer 35:30 intercession is absolutely essential 35:34 for the salvation of our children. 35:36 OK. You say: "Well I'll come up with clever little answers. " 35:38 "I'll come up with strategic gifts. " 35:44 Yeah, all of that is the outpouring of a mother's love, 35:47 is the outpouring of a father's love. 35:48 But the intercession before the Jesus that John just 35:52 read in Hebrews 7:25 "who ever lives to make 35:55 intercession for us... " The parental intercession 35:57 for children is God's most potent weapon. 36:01 Because if the child is not praying for himself, 36:04 if she's too caught up in the giddiness of being free 36:07 and she's not praying for herself, 36:09 God still has - by the authority of that godly mother's prayers - 36:14 permission to step into that life and offer her 36:18 again and again - praise the Lord - offer him 36:21 the opportunity. "Come on, boy, come back to Me. 36:23 You're getting too far. Come on back to me, boy, 36:25 your mother's praying for you. " 36:27 Love it. All right. Maybe we can move on. 36:29 That was a good one. Let's move on to that one. 36:32 Don't know how we're going to beat that. 36:34 All right. This question is: "How do we know 36:37 which day the Sabbath really is? " 36:41 How do we know? 36:43 Well, maybe I can just say that Sunday keepers 36:47 are sure which day is Sunday. 36:51 You know, I always have people say: 36:53 "How do you know that the Sabbath today is the same 36:56 Sabbath of the days of Christ? " 36:59 And my answer is: "How do you know that the 37:01 Sunday that you celebrate in honor of the resurrection 37:03 is the same Sunday? " 37:05 And then... and then they say: "Well, OK, 37:07 the same Sabbath today is the same Sabbath as the days of 37:10 Christ, so how do you know it's the same Sabbath of creation? " 37:14 And I say: "Very simple... Jesus created the Sabbath 37:18 and He would not keep the wrong day. " 37:23 OK. 37:29 Very good! Any other? 37:31 I think he just said it all. I do too! 37:37 If I said to you: "Come on Sunday to pick up your check, " 37:40 everybody would know what day I meant. 37:41 Absolutely. And the Jews haven't ever forgotten 37:44 which day is Saturday, and the Catholics that started 37:47 virtually not long afterwards they haven't forgotten 37:50 which day is Sunday. So I think when people ask that 37:52 once you think about it a little bit 37:55 it's not really that difficult. 37:57 OK, this one... There's been several questions 38:00 about the 144,000. I know that's a long topic. 38:03 We don't have a chance to do it, but people are 38:05 asking: "Will we be sinning when Jesus comes 38:09 those who are saved? And how does this reflect 38:12 the 144,000? Who's going to be in that number? " 38:16 I've had several questions all around that 144,000. 38:20 What can you tell us 38:23 that is spoken of in the Bible before Jesus comes? 38:29 Well, one thing we know for sure: there'll be 38:32 144,000 of them. 38:38 The Bible describes the character of the 144,000 38:43 in Revelation 14. The character is the most important focus 38:48 not who they are... any more than we know 38:50 who's going to be a member of this church next week 38:53 or next month or next year 38:54 any more than we know who the names of the saved 38:56 are going to be. The character is the most important thing. 39:00 And I think that sometimes we focus... 39:02 If you want to find out what that is: Revelation 14 verse 3 39:05 to verse 5. Dwight is there. Why don't you read that, Dwight? 39:07 I want to give a break so that people can hear it. 39:09 This is Revelation 14:3. "They sang... " speaking of the 39:12 144,000... "were with the Father. " By the way, they have 39:15 the Father's name written on their foreheads. 39:18 "They sang as it were a new song before the throne, 39:20 before the four living creatures and the elders and no one 39:23 could learn that song 39:26 who were redeemed from the earth. 39:28 These... " Verse 4... "are the ones who were not 39:30 defiled with women for they are virgins. 39:33 These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. 39:37 These were redeemed from among men 39:39 being first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 39:41 And in their mouth was found no deceit 39:43 for they are without fault before the throne of God. " 39:47 And so in a nutshell 39:49 all we're going to continue sinning... I think there were 39:51 two questions here. No, once the declaration is made 39:54 "He that is unjust... he that is righteous" 39:56 then we remain in that character for all eternity. 40:02 Who they are? We don't know. 40:04 Are we striving to be a part of that? I am. 40:07 I believe we all are. 40:08 But we have to live the character and let the Lord 40:10 decide who that will be. 40:12 I think one of the problems that we have 40:14 is that we focus on overcoming sin 40:16 instead of focusing on the One who helps us overcome sin. 40:21 You know, ceasing sinning 40:25 will only take place when we're at Calvary 40:29 seeing what sin did to Jesus. 40:32 In other words, when I hear Jesus in Gethsemane 40:35 crying out to His Father: "Father, if this cup... " 40:38 Which had the wrath of God by the way. 40:40 Same word that's used in Revelation chapter 16 40:42 for the cups or the vials of God's wrath. 40:44 Jesus prayed and said: "If this cup can pass from Me 40:48 let it be so. But not My will be done but Yours. " 40:51 When I see Him sweating drops of blood, 40:54 when I hear Him crying out on the cross 40:56 "Why have You forsaken Me? " 40:58 I ask Jesus: "Why did this happen to You? " 41:00 Jesus says: "Because of sin. " 41:02 Then I will see how terrible sin is 41:06 when I come to the cross. 41:07 And when I see how terrible sin is, I will want to stop 41:11 sinning because it hurts Jesus. 41:13 Just to take a quick take off from what Pastor Bohr is saying. 41:16 Two things. One: if you don't make the 144,000 41:19 I think there's another company that's just a little bit 41:21 larger that John saw 41:24 that is going to be saved, that is going to be redeemed. 41:27 One of the things that I think will insulate us from sin 41:29 throughout all eternity. I think we have a little idea 41:32 of how much God loves us. 41:34 But I think at this point in this dispensation 41:36 we have no idea how much God hates sin. 41:40 I don't think there's any... We have no clue 41:43 the hatred of God for sin. 41:46 I think one of the things that we will begin to understand 41:48 at that point is how much God hates sin. 41:52 I think we will be faced with that throughout all eternity. 41:54 And it is the understanding of the enmity between God and sin 41:58 that will be one of the things that will insulate us 42:00 from having sin ever coming back in the history of the 42:03 universe ever again - Amen! - when we really understand 42:06 the sacrifice of Christ given the hatred of God for sin. 42:10 Look at the difference between a parent 42:13 that has a child on drugs 42:15 that's doing cocaine vs. one who doesn't. 42:18 The one who has the child... And I've talked to them 42:20 and you all have to says: "I hate drugs; I hate drugs. " 42:24 Those of us not experienced with that say: "Those are terrible. 42:27 Drugs are terrible. " But Jesus knows... He's that 42:32 parent. He knows what sin is. 42:35 He sees it destroying His creation. 42:37 Thank you. All right, we have another question 42:41 here on the two witnesses of Revelation 11:7-10. 42:46 It says: "How can this only be referring to the Old and New 42:50 Testament? Could this not also be two literal people? 42:58 Revelation 11:7-10. 43:02 Steve, you look like you're ready to take in after this. 43:07 Well I have a whole presentation 43:13 on the two witnesses. 43:15 And, you know, you'd have to believe that Moses 43:18 would have to come back to the earth 43:22 and Elijah would have to come back to the earth. 43:24 Of course, Elijah was trans- lated from among the living. 43:26 Moses died and he was taken to heaven. 43:30 It's much better when you look at all of the evidence 43:33 of scripture to believe that really... 43:36 By the way, they ARE Moses and Elijah. 43:38 Yeah, and they did come back at the Mt. of Transfiguration. 43:41 Right. But you're dealing with typology. 43:44 It's just the same as Elijah. 43:46 You know, the Elijah in the end time is not literal Elijah. 43:50 He's symbolic of something far greater. 43:52 And so the two witnesses are not literal Moses and Elijah 43:56 which would be like going back to the Old Testament 43:58 to the type. But this is an antitypical 44:01 meaning which represents really... Moses looks backwards 44:06 and Elijah looks forwards towards the New Testament. 44:08 In fact, John the Baptist IS the New Testament Elijah. 44:11 And so he's the bridge between the Old and New Testament. 44:14 So basically it's correct to say 44:18 that it's the Old and New Testament because Moses 44:20 is identified primarily with the Old 44:22 while Elijah looks forward to the New. 44:25 OK. C.A. you look like you're ready. 44:28 Moses and Elijah came to encourage Christ in the garden. 44:32 I wish I could have been there for that conversation 44:34 because they realized that they were in heaven 44:36 on a promissory note. If Christ had failed, 44:39 they would have to have gotten out of heaven. 44:41 They could not stay. 44:43 So I know what they were saying: "Lord, You've got to come 44:45 through 'cause Your failure is our eviction notice. " 44:48 They're not coming back here anymore. 44:50 They're in and they're going to stay in. 44:51 And if I were in where they are, I wouldn't want to come back 44:53 either. Yes. So, no, it's representative. 44:56 I think Pastor Bohr was very correct. 44:57 OK. No round-trip ticket. 45:00 All right... OK. This one: I'm hesitant to ask this. 45:04 We don't have much time, but why don't we just do it quickly 45:08 as we can: "How do we recognize spiritual formation 45:11 in our church? " 45:13 That's a tough one that's going to be quick. 45:15 We don't want to get... We only have about 45:17 10 or 11-12 minutes left. 45:19 What do we look for? Who wants to tackle that? 45:22 Spiritual formation quickly around "Where are you going? " 45:24 "Are you going in? Are you going out? " 45:27 Spiritual formation says: "If you can go in far enough 45:29 into yourself, there's something good in there. " 45:31 The Bible seems to say the opposite: 45:33 that there's nothing good in you. 45:35 You've got to go out to Jesus Christ. 45:37 If your church is trying to tell you to go in 45:38 'cause there's something you're going to find in there good, 45:41 they're not telling you the truth, because when you 45:42 get there you will find that there's nothing good in there. 45:45 The only good is Jesus. 45:47 That was quick and to the point. Steve. 45:50 You know, I think that's probably... This is a difficult 45:52 question to answer because it's so extensive. 45:55 But you know I would recommend a book 45:57 written by Howard Peth that's called The Dangers of 46:01 Contemplative Prayer. Of course, contemplative prayer 46:03 branches off from the idea of spiritual formation. 46:07 And you know, we have that book at our booth. 46:10 It's a small book; it deals with all the issues, 46:14 all of the individuals who teach contemplative prayer. 46:17 The dangers of it. It actually was recommended 46:20 by the General Conference by Mark Finley. 46:23 And so this is an excellent book 46:26 and I would recommend that everybody if possible 46:29 get a copy of this book: The Dangers of Contemplative Prayer 46:32 by Howard Peth. 46:34 OK... anybody else? Or go on? 46:36 The only thing I would add is that if you can't find 46:40 the practice in the Bible, 46:42 if it isn't supported by scripture, don't do it. 46:46 OK. All right. 46:48 This is a question that I've not really run into before 46:53 quite honestly. "What do you know about 46:56 the 2520 prophecy? " 47:04 We have stumped the panel. 47:06 Yeah, I'm stuck. I'll just give one answer. 47:08 Secrets Unsealed has its yearly summit 47:11 October 10-13 47:14 and I'm going to be dealing with some very difficult issues 47:17 at our summit: 2520, and I'll be dealing with the daily. 47:21 I'm going to be dealing with the yearly principle. 47:23 Some of the real controversial issues in Adventism. 47:26 So you're all invited to come to our summit 47:28 October 10-13 in Fresno. Where is it this summit? 47:30 Tell us a little bit more about the summit. 47:32 Where is it? It's going to be in Fresno - 47:33 OK - at the University Square Hotel. 47:36 Uh-huh. And basically, we have a summit where we invite 47:40 all of our supporters to come. 47:41 Everyone is welcome to come. Just go to our website 47:44 secretsunsealed. org 47:46 and you'll get information. 47:48 We don't require donations 47:50 although Shelly suggested it's a good idea. 47:53 Are you going to deal with the 2520 prophecy? 47:56 We will deal with the 2520 extensively 47:58 so that everybody understands what the issues are. 48:00 John, would you like to answer this so they don't have to go 48:03 to Fresno? People probably wonder 48:05 is there a Bible prophecy for 2520? 48:07 And the answer is "No! " 48:08 But there's no 2520 mentioned in the Bible. You can't find it 48:12 anywhere. But here's where it comes from: 48:14 it's 7 times 360. 48:17 There was a time-period established by the early 48:20 Millerites who believed that from the time of the preaching 48:24 to the time of Christ would be seven years. 48:26 And they looked forward for this 2,520 days. 48:29 But did Jesus come in 1844? And what's the answer? 48:32 No. But there is no scriptural like the 2300 days. 48:36 There's no 2520 prophecy in the Bible. 48:39 And this is quite a serious issue because 48:42 there are pockets of Adventists in many different places 48:45 that are all caught up in this 2520. 48:49 And they're even saying that unless you have the 2520 clear 48:52 you can't be saved. They're going that far. 48:56 And basically they misinterpret the old 1843 Millerite chart. 49:00 And that's one of the things that we're going to take a look 49:01 at. OK, Danny. 49:03 I guess I would have to be lost on ignorance. 49:06 I didn't know about it; first I heard about 2520. 49:08 Come to our summit. 49:10 I'm disappointed in the rest of you. 49:12 Steve is the only one that talked about items at his booth 49:15 for sale and gave his website 49:17 and got you coming to his meetings. 49:19 Don't the rest of you? Can't you direct us to 49:22 Pioneer or John to? www. pmchurch. tv 49:28 tvsdac. org 49:31 OK. Every Wednesday night. 49:33 Every week actually. 49:35 All right... love it. No, this is a great time to do it. 49:37 We only have a few minutes left. Somebody wants to come back 49:40 and maybe this is one we can kind of wrap it up 49:42 because I thought about this earlier. But it says: 49:44 You all just said it was easier to be saved than lost. 49:48 And everybody was united on that. 49:49 But: "If it's really easier to be saved than to be lost 49:53 why are so many people being lost and so few saved? " 49:57 How do we bring that down to the reality? 50:00 We know what you just said and the scripture says 50:03 but it is tough out here. There's a war going on. 50:06 So how can we? How can we gain victory in this? 50:09 How can we be assured that we can be one of those saved? 50:13 The Lord Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus 50:17 and it's recorded in Acts 26:18. 50:21 He said: "I am sending you to open their eyes, 50:24 to turn them from darkness to light, 50:26 from the power of Satan to God 50:28 that they may be sanctified" - 50:32 set apart from sin, made holy - 50:34 "by faith in Me and have a share 50:37 in the inheritance among those who are sanctified 50:40 by faith in Me. " And I believe that 50:44 we've got to get our message right. 50:47 When we talk with people it has to be love... 50:52 We have to reflect the love, light, and life of Jesus Christ. 50:56 And we have to let them know 50:59 and I think in some ways we still have to learn 51:02 that God's plan of salvation is total dependence upon Him. 51:07 It isn't... It's all by grace. 51:10 It's not grace + works. 51:12 Our works are just a proof of our profession. 51:16 But we count on God - Philippians 2:13- 51:20 working in us to will and to do. 51:23 We count on God - Philippians 1:6- 51:28 completing the good work that He began in us. 51:31 We have to remember both the Old and the New Testaments 51:35 say that salvation belongs to the Lord. 51:37 And if we'll quit trying to save ourselves and we'll just 51:40 surrender and ask every day to be filled with the Holy Spirit 51:45 Acts 3:16-20 says that when we have that Spirit 51:51 in our heart and that power working in the inner man 51:55 we'll be rooted and grounded in love 51:58 and we'll understand the width and the length and the depth 52:01 and the height of God's love. 52:04 And He will be able to do exceedingly abundantly 52:08 above all we ask or think. 52:11 If we can understand this 52:13 and we can relate it to others, 52:16 it's just easier to be saved than lost. 52:21 That was great, but let me make it really simple. 52:25 I'm going to go to the thief on the cross. 52:27 He didn't know any of that. He just called on Jesus. 52:30 You know, his situation was different than everybody else's. 52:34 I'm completely supporting what Shelley said, 52:36 and that's vitally important. 52:38 But the Lord says whosoever believeth in Him 52:41 should not perish but have everlasting life. 52:43 The work that happens after you accept Christ in your life 52:45 happens by Him coming in. That's what Shelley's talking about. 52:49 But the Lord turns away from no one who calls on His name. 52:52 He says to no one: "This is what you must do before I save you. " 52:56 "Whomsoever will... let him come. 52:58 I will in no wise cast you away. " 53:00 So salvation to me is much easier than being lost. 53:06 All you've got to do to be lost is nothing. 53:08 All you've got to do to be saved is accept Jesus into your life 53:11 and the work begins. He begins it; He carries it on; 53:14 and He finishes it. 53:16 Quick text: Romans 8:11. 53:18 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead 53:22 dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead 53:25 will also give life to your mortal bodies 53:28 through His Spirit who dwells in you. " 53:31 When Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" 53:34 that is an incredibly bigoted statement. 53:37 And in this pluralistic age in which we live 53:40 it sound bad to be sort of one way like that. 53:45 But it happens to be the truth! 53:47 There is life in Christ and Christ alone. 53:50 There is no other way to ascend into the kingdom. 53:52 You have to go through Jesus Christ. 53:55 And once you are in Christ and as long as you abide in Christ 53:58 salvation is yours. 54:01 When a person is drowning, 54:05 the lifesaver doesn't jump in immediately to save a person 54:08 who is drowning. 54:10 He lets the person struggle and fight and try to save himself 54:14 until his energy is expended. 54:17 And then he jumps in and helps the person who is drowning. 54:20 Because if he jumps in when the person is struggling 54:22 to save himself then they both drown. 54:25 And so it is, you know, when we struggle and struggle 54:31 and struggle to save ourselves 54:32 and finally we expended all the energy to try and save ourselves 54:36 then Jesus jumps in and He brings salvation. 54:40 The key point is yielding. 54:43 The difficult part in being saved 54:47 is not the process that God established to be saved. 54:50 The difficult part for us is that we want to be in control 54:54 of our lives. We want to dictate what we do. 54:57 But when we yield our will to Jesus 55:00 and we expend all of our energy 55:03 trying to save ourselves and we see that it's useless 55:06 then Jesus can intervene to save us. 55:09 Pastor Dwight. Jesus' words: John 6:37. 55:13 You remember these words. 55:14 "He/she who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. " 55:20 A friend of mine, Skip MacCarty, found this quotation 55:22 and shared with me. I have it taped to... 55:25 I always wonder what you use these maps for in the back 55:27 of the Bible, but I tape quotations to them now. 55:31 Written 100 years ago. 55:33 100 years ago: "The message from God to me 55:36 for you is: him that cometh unto Me I will in no wise 55:40 cast out. " Now listen: 55:42 "If you have nothing else to plead before God but this 55:46 one promise from your Lord and Savior, 55:48 you have the assurance that you will never, never 55:52 be turned away. " In the Greek it's a double negative. 55:55 Jesus says in the Greek: "He who comes to Me 55:58 I will no not ever... " It's the double negative 56:01 inserted in the Greek into that sentence 56:04 and Ellen White picks up on that double. 56:06 "You will never never be turned away. 56:08 It may seem to you that you are hanging upon a single promise 56:11 but appropriate that one promise and it will open to you" 56:15 I love this... "the whole treasure house of the riches 56:18 of the grace of Christ. " Now hold on. 56:21 "Cling to that promise - John 6:37- 56:23 and you are safe. Present this assurance to Jesus 56:27 and you are as safe as though inside the city of God. " 56:32 Amen! One promise... just keep giving it to Jesus. 56:35 John 6:37. No matter what you're wrestling with now, sir. 56:38 No matter what you are battling, woman. 56:41 God's promise to you is: "You hang on... 56:43 you hang onto Me and you're as good as inside the city 56:47 tonight. " Mr. Gilley, we only have a few seconds. 56:50 Can you comment on that in closing? 56:52 Well I think that John 3:16, of course, has the gospel 56:56 and John 3:17 is one that many people don't even know is there. 57:01 "For Christ came not into the world to condemn the world 57:06 but through Him the world might be saved. " 57:10 He came to save. Not to condemn but to save. |
Revised 2014-12-17