Happy Sabbath, GYC.
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We're so happy that
you're here with us,
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to those who have been
with us since Wednesday
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to those who are
visiting here on Sabbath.
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We're super excited
that you have chosen
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to worship God with us
here at GYC in Orlando.
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I have a short quote
that I want to read to you
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in preparation for our
Sabbath school this morning.
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It's going to be a
Sabbath school program
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that I feel will
be very useful to us,
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very inspirational and I
hope also very inspiring.
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So the quote reads as
follows is found in the book
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"Christ Our
Righteousness" 126 and it says,
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"As Christ was glorified
on the day of Pentecost,
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so will He again be glorified
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in the closing
work of the gospel,
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when He shall prepare a
people to stand the final test,
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in the closing conflict
of the great controversy."
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And I believe, my friends, that
He is preparing such a people
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and we've been spending
all these days studying,
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thinking about
that representation
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that we make of Him.
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And so I pray that as we
listen to some of the leaders
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of our church
speaking to some of the things
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that we face these
days, I pray that our hearts
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would believe by faith that
in fact we are being prepared
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as these people
that will reflect
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His character and all His glory.
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I have a couple of
announcements to make.
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On this Sabbath, we
are going to be having
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a lot of extra people,
more people visiting us
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and for that
we're extremely happy.
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Now for-- when we
start going to the seminar
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that's going to be
happening this afternoon,
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I just want to remind you
that if you are a visitor today,
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just make sure that the
people who have registered,
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who want to be in that seminar
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are able to make
it to that seminar
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and once it gets a
little bit closer to the time
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and you're able to find a seat
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and because there's
going to be so many people,
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we're also going to be asking
that you'd not save seats,
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both in the
programs and in the seminars
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so this makes it easier
for those that actually make it
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to the seminar early to
find the spots that they need
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and I really appreciate that.
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We're going to be
having a very special music now
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and it will be followed by
our Sabbath school program,
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thank you.
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Someone is praying for you
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Someone is praying for you
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And when it
seems you're all alone
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And your heart will break in two
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Remember someone is
praying for you, for you.
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When it seems that you've prayed
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Till your strength is all gone
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And your tears fall like
raindrops all the day long
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Jesus cares and He knows
just how much you can bear
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He'll speak your
name to someone in prayer
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I know someone
is praying for you
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Remember someone
is praying for you
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And when it
seems you're all alone
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And your heart will break in two
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Remember someone is
praying for you, for you.
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Have the clouds
'round you gathered
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In the midst of a storm
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Is your ship
tossed and battered?
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Are you wearied and worn?
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Don't lose hope
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Someone's praying
for you this very day
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And peace be still
is already on the way
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You know someone
is praying for you
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Remember someone
is praying for you
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And when it
seems you're all alone
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And your heart will break in two
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Remember someone
is praying for you
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We know Jesus is praying for you
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We know that Jesus is
praying for you, for you
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And when it
seems you're all alone
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And your heart will break in two
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Remember Jesus is
praying for you, for you
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Remember Jesus
is praying for you
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Amen. Amen.
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Thank you so much for
that beautiful special music.
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Good morning, everyone.
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We are here for our
Sabbath School Panel discussion
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and we are excited about
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the next hour
that is ahead of us.
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My name is Israel Ramos
and I'm working with GYC
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as the previous president.
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Actually, the previous
president is now Justin
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because he is on his way out
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but we have Natasha
the future president.
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So we have here on this
panel, panel of GYC presidents
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that have the
opportunity to interact
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with the General Conference
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and North American
Division Church of Officers.
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We want to say
thank you for the time
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that you've dedicated
to spend this with us.
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It's something
that GYC looks forward
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to whenever we
have the opportunity.
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You remember in Kentucky,
we had this opportunity
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and it was one of the greatest
blessings of that conference
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and our highlight, I think,
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of many young
people's experience.
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So we are excited
about this opportunity again
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and we're happy that
we have this privilege
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to interact with you in
this question and answer panel.
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I want to introduce
you to our audience.
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On my far, on the
far length of the table,
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there we have Pastor
Paul Ratsara representing
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the Southern African
Indian Ocean Division.
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The longest name for sure,
one of the largest confer--
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largest divisions, fastest
growing, at least one of them.
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So we're thankful Elder Ratsara
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that you're here all
the way from South Africa.
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Next to him, we
have Pastor Bill Knott,
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in charge of the
Review and Herald.
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We're thankful that you
are here with us as well.
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Pastor Ted Wilson,
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the President of
the General Conference.
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And next to him we
have Elder James Black,
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who has been Youth
Ministry for quite a bit,
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quite a long time, in
charge of North America.
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Thank you for your time here
and Elder Wils-- not Wilson.
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Elder Finley, who is
no, no stranger here at GYC.
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Thank you for being with us.
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Just so that the audience
knows, we do have a process
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that we followed in our
discussion here this morning
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and we want to
make that open to you
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so that you know
where we're going.
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First of all we opened the--
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email accounts for
people to submit questions.
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Some of these
questions, we had many of the--
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of similar sounding questions
so we put them together
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into one general topic.
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And so we're gonna ask these
questions in a general format.
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Some of the questions that
were asked had a specific point
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and we will ask the point but
not directly quote the question
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just because it's-- we try to
make it as concise as possible.
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And some of them
will be directly asked
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as they come to us from
the emails that were sent.
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The topics that
we are addressing
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ultimately fall
under three categories.
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One of those
categories is unity.
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How was it that the church
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can experience unity
even amidst diversity?
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And so that's one of the
topics that we will addressing,
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several questions
that go along those lines.
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Another big issue
that is on the minds
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of the young people is
the issue of sexuality.
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How does the church, the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
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deal with this
topic of sexuality,
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not just sexual temptation
but sexual abuse and so forth.
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And then finally,
Adventist church identity,
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it kind of goes
along with unity.
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But what makes a
Seventh-day Adventist
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and how was it
that we can represent
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the Seventh-day
Adventist Church together
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even a midst
many different people,
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many different backgrounds,
many different cultures?
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We were able to have a
discussion with the panelists
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yesterday to
prepare for this time
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and we came up with the
understanding at the end
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that there is
definitely a difference--
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a different way of thinking.
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As we have more experience
we believe that we'll finally
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reach the way of thinking
of our great panelists here.
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But at this point, we're
hoping that this discussion
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will help bridge the gap
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and understand the
mind of church leaders
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and help the
church leaders understand
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the minds of young people.
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And so our aim here is
to be honest and respectful
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and at the same
time to be very open.
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And we understand, and we want
our young people to understand,
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that some of the
questions that we ask
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we know are short-sighted.
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And so we're very
open for the church
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to give us a
broader understanding.
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Just, please, let's make sure
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that we answer the
questions that are asked.
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So with that in mind, we do have
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the privilege of
asking the question,
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we're gonna give that
over the first question
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to our GYC
President, Justin McNeilus.
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Thank you, Israel, for the
nice introduction you gave us.
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So the first
question I would ask as
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one sort of a personal nature
first day note of appreciation,
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the church leaders got
together and they looked at
00:11:11.20\00:11:13.89
what was happening in that
GYC and you said to yourselves,
00:11:13.92\00:11:17.13
at GYC they
need a representative
00:11:17.16\00:11:19.71
at the general
counsel in session.
00:11:19.74\00:11:22.47
And so you sent me to represent
the young people here by GYC
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and so that is undoubtedly
one of the highest privileges
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I've had as GYC President,
so first thank you for that.
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But second, as a banker,
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I would follow up
that question with this.
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I think it's safe to say
that the General Conference
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spends about $5 million on that
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that's $50 million of
production from the church.
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And so my question would be
as a banker, is it worth it?
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And if I could ask you,
Elder Wilson as our president.
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All right, well,
thank you, Justin.
00:11:58.62\00:12:00.26
And it's good to be with
you and Natasha and Israel.
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I want to preface my
remarks and any of our remarks
00:12:06.39\00:12:09.57
by stating that we
give our answers humbly
00:12:09.60\00:12:16.22
and we may not get
everything exactly right
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but we do it in
the spirit of Jesus.
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And we would covet your prayers,
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I love that song
that the choirteth sang.
00:12:27.11\00:12:29.40
Someone is praying for you.
00:12:29.43\00:12:31.64
In fact, everywhere I
travel, people are saying,
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"I'm praying for
you. I'm praying for you."
00:12:34.19\00:12:35.63
And it just is so reassuring.
00:12:35.66\00:12:37.71
So I hope while we give
our answers this morning
00:12:37.74\00:12:41.01
that you'll be praying for us.
00:12:41.04\00:12:43.44
The General Conference session
00:12:43.47\00:12:46.37
is a large
gathering every five years.
00:12:46.40\00:12:50.05
At that particular meeting,
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things are done in
a business setting.
00:12:53.47\00:12:57.52
It is a time in which officers
00:12:57.55\00:13:00.38
and department
directors are elected.
00:13:00.41\00:13:03.64
It is a time when the
church manual is looked at
00:13:03.67\00:13:07.77
as to whether some
changes need to be made.
00:13:07.80\00:13:10.64
Any changes to the
fundamental beliefs that we have
00:13:10.67\00:13:14.09
are only done at a
General Conference Session.
00:13:14.12\00:13:17.95
And some people
might say, "But, you know,
00:13:17.98\00:13:19.99
we have about 2,700 delegates
or so that will be coming.
00:13:20.02\00:13:25.21
Why can't you just
rent a small little place?
00:13:25.24\00:13:28.56
Have a meeting for four days
00:13:28.59\00:13:30.59
and take care of
things and lot less expense."
00:13:30.62\00:13:35.32
Many of us have
actually thought about
00:13:35.35\00:13:37.56
the possibility
of trying to do that
00:13:37.59\00:13:39.84
and shorten
General Conference Session.
00:13:39.87\00:13:42.63
On the other hand,
there is something very unique
00:13:42.66\00:13:46.76
and one has to
say the $5 million
00:13:46.79\00:13:49.81
that the General
Conference spends.
00:13:49.84\00:13:51.68
In addition to that,
divisions spend money for hotels
00:13:51.71\00:13:56.69
and all of that
kind of thing, air fares.
00:13:56.72\00:13:59.05
So there is
considerable amount of money
00:13:59.08\00:14:00.92
and this has been rather
transparent, our treasurer,
00:14:00.95\00:14:04.23
Bob Lemon, I think
he's been very transparent
00:14:04.26\00:14:06.44
and open about these things.
00:14:06.47\00:14:07.79
We don't want to hide
things. Is it worth the money?
00:14:07.82\00:14:13.31
I suppose I
could simply indicate
00:14:13.34\00:14:18.04
an illustration
using my precious wife.
00:14:18.07\00:14:21.55
My wife grew up in
Asheville, North Carolina.
00:14:21.58\00:14:26.06
And probably knew the
president of her conference
00:14:26.09\00:14:30.17
and the pastor
and that was about it.
00:14:30.20\00:14:33.90
She didn't know anything
much about the world field
00:14:33.93\00:14:36.88
because her
world was very focused.
00:14:36.91\00:14:40.16
She never attended a
General Conference Session
00:14:40.19\00:14:42.18
until she married me.
00:14:42.21\00:14:45.28
And when she attended,
she was absolutely amazed
00:14:45.31\00:14:50.29
at the international fabric
00:14:50.32\00:14:53.26
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:14:53.29\00:14:55.70
And I think, probably one
of the most beautiful benefits
00:14:55.73\00:15:00.09
from the money that is
invested and it is God's money
00:15:00.12\00:15:04.14
is the sense of
belonging to a world family
00:15:04.17\00:15:09.77
at a setting like that
00:15:09.80\00:15:11.11
that you will never
get in any other venue.
00:15:11.14\00:15:14.75
And when you see how God
moves in so many dramatic ways,
00:15:14.78\00:15:19.76
then I think we
can at least help
00:15:19.79\00:15:22.77
to justify some of the money
00:15:22.80\00:15:25.33
that is spent on a
General Conference Session.
00:15:25.36\00:15:28.26
And at this coming
General Conference Session
00:15:28.29\00:15:30.51
in San Antonio and Mark
may allude to this sometime,
00:15:30.54\00:15:34.81
we're hoping to create a very,
very mission-oriented setting
00:15:34.84\00:15:40.73
with an emphasis on
evangelism, on our mission,
00:15:40.76\00:15:44.31
and the coming of the Lord,
00:15:44.34\00:15:45.86
in fact that's
basically the theme.
00:15:45.89\00:15:48.42
And so General
Conference Session I think,
00:15:48.45\00:15:52.52
in the long run is
well worth the money.
00:15:52.55\00:15:56.28
You know, I may just
pickup on some of the things
00:15:56.31\00:15:58.71
that Elder Wilson has
said, the question is,
00:15:58.74\00:16:01.57
is it too expensive to hold
a General Conference Session
00:16:01.60\00:16:04.84
when you considered
this $5 million spent on it.
00:16:04.87\00:16:07.63
I guess you could ask
the question a different way,
00:16:07.66\00:16:09.59
would it be more expensive
00:16:09.62\00:16:10.97
not to hold a
General Conference Session?
00:16:11.00\00:16:13.86
Would it be more
expensive not to hold it?
00:16:13.89\00:16:16.18
The Seventh-day
Adventist Church is in over
00:16:16.21\00:16:18.03
200 countries in the world,
we are 18 million members now.
00:16:18.06\00:16:22.71
There are 3,000
people baptized everyday
00:16:22.74\00:16:25.13
into the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:16:25.16\00:16:27.22
What if we didn't hold a
General Conference Session?
00:16:27.25\00:16:30.70
What if the Adventist
Church became fragmented
00:16:30.73\00:16:34.60
as many other
protestant denominations?
00:16:34.63\00:16:38.59
What if this fragmentation
led to why theological
00:16:38.62\00:16:43.51
diversity much
greater than we did today?
00:16:43.54\00:16:46.52
What does a General
Conference Session do?
00:16:46.55\00:16:49.30
Among other things, it
brings the church together
00:16:49.33\00:16:51.71
in a unified focus to reach
the world for Jesus Christ.
00:16:51.74\00:16:56.09
It brings us
together as a youth--
00:16:56.12\00:16:59.53
as a church family,
it focuses on mission.
00:16:59.56\00:17:03.75
One of the things we
hope to happen at this coming
00:17:03.78\00:17:05.96
General Conference
Session is, you know,
00:17:05.99\00:17:07.50
every year, we end the
General Conference Session,
00:17:07.53\00:17:10.37
every session at
the end of five years,
00:17:10.40\00:17:12.04
we end the
General Conference Session
00:17:12.07\00:17:14.84
with what we call
the Parade of Nations.
00:17:14.87\00:17:18.09
This year, we want to
do the March of Mission
00:17:18.12\00:17:20.74
where each of the
country's represented
00:17:20.77\00:17:24.18
in that great March of Mission,
00:17:24.21\00:17:26.32
focuses on what God is doing
in that particularly country
00:17:26.35\00:17:30.86
to win that nation for Christ.
00:17:30.89\00:17:33.10
And we're thinking about ending
the General Conference Session
00:17:33.13\00:17:36.22
with an international baptism
00:17:36.25\00:17:38.60
with people from
countries around the world.
00:17:38.63\00:17:41.94
Why is the General
Conference Session so important?
00:17:41.97\00:17:44.95
Because it unifies
the church in policy
00:17:44.98\00:17:48.15
and in doctrine and in mission
00:17:48.18\00:17:50.52
to reach a world in fulfillment
of Revelation 14:6, 7.
00:17:50.55\00:17:56.10
Amen.
00:17:56.13\00:17:59.77
The question about the value
of unity is one that the church
00:17:59.80\00:18:03.61
actually looks at not only
00:18:03.64\00:18:05.44
at General
Conference Session times
00:18:05.47\00:18:07.24
but around the
calendar throughout the year,
00:18:07.27\00:18:10.58
what's it worth and how
much are we willing to commit
00:18:10.61\00:18:13.10
the value of unity worldwide?
00:18:13.13\00:18:15.59
I look at the magazines
that I edit, General Conference,
00:18:15.62\00:18:19.07
if you go back to
1863, has invested
00:18:19.10\00:18:22.63
millions of dollars
in the Adventist Review.
00:18:22.66\00:18:25.17
And in Adventist World
Magazine because it has always
00:18:25.20\00:18:28.68
placed a high value on
what James White called,
00:18:28.71\00:18:32.22
"gathering the scattered flock."
00:18:32.25\00:18:34.93
The natural tendency of
human beings is disintegration.
00:18:34.96\00:18:39.03
Centrifugal force
throws us away from each other.
00:18:39.06\00:18:42.28
And God's call in His
church is to gather together,
00:18:42.31\00:18:45.62
"press together, press together,
00:18:45.65\00:18:47.15
press together,"
Ellen White says.
00:18:47.18\00:18:49.04
General Conference
Session is just an illustration
00:18:49.07\00:18:51.61
of a fundamental
principle of ongoing unity
00:18:51.64\00:18:55.12
to which the church
has always committed
00:18:55.15\00:18:57.71
great resources and great time.
00:18:57.74\00:19:00.53
Thank you so much.
Yes, Elder Ratsara.
00:19:00.56\00:19:03.61
I just want to add my voice
to what was just been said.
00:19:03.64\00:19:09.32
You see, we take this church,
we believe that this a family.
00:19:09.35\00:19:15.10
And if family needs to be
together to remain together,
00:19:15.13\00:19:19.74
and to me the value
of the General Conference
00:19:19.77\00:19:24.40
is to give
opportunity for this family
00:19:24.43\00:19:27.67
at least once every
five years to be together
00:19:27.70\00:19:30.88
and to say, "Hey, we
are part of this family
00:19:30.91\00:19:34.34
even though belong
to a small company,
00:19:34.37\00:19:37.51
a small church far,
the extreme of the earth,"
00:19:37.54\00:19:41.46
and look we belong to
a church, a family church
00:19:41.49\00:19:46.17
that the global-ness of
the church is to be maintained
00:19:46.20\00:19:51.69
and we have to be
intentional about this
00:19:51.72\00:19:54.01
and that costs
money but it is worth it.
00:19:54.04\00:19:56.79
I appreciate
the honest responses
00:19:56.82\00:19:58.71
in addressing the question
00:19:58.74\00:20:01.04
and I would just
submit also like your wife,
00:20:01.07\00:20:03.06
I left more excited to be
an Adventist when I got there.
00:20:03.09\00:20:06.66
And so from a
personal experience,
00:20:06.69\00:20:07.88
I can say that now we have
a lot of questions gentlemen
00:20:07.91\00:20:11.31
and so we're gonna ask
that we just get a few answers
00:20:11.34\00:20:13.86
to each of these
and we're gonna try
00:20:13.89\00:20:15.42
and move through
these because we have some
00:20:15.45\00:20:16.79
really good ones coming up.
00:20:16.82\00:20:18.86
I appreciate the comments
that were mentioned regarding
00:20:18.89\00:20:21.34
the General Conference serving
as a means to unite people.
00:20:21.37\00:20:24.55
I think it's great, you know,
00:20:24.58\00:20:28.47
comments were
mentioned to the fact
00:20:28.50\00:20:29.56
that it's like a
family coming together,
00:20:29.59\00:20:32.31
you're able to see what's
happening around the world
00:20:32.34\00:20:35.24
and this or the-- at least
the word that came that's--
00:20:35.27\00:20:37.84
that got to me was
this is all a movement
00:20:37.87\00:20:40.37
that helps to unite people.
00:20:40.40\00:20:43.25
I guess, how would
you respond to the fact
00:20:43.28\00:20:45.21
that sometimes well the--
00:20:45.24\00:20:46.70
the General
Conference are understanding
00:20:46.73\00:20:47.90
the General
Conference Session is
00:20:47.93\00:20:49.02
it's ultimately a large
church business meeting.
00:20:49.05\00:20:53.49
And we would think that
00:20:53.52\00:20:55.90
it is that which unites
us would be the word of God,
00:20:55.93\00:20:58.79
I mean, that's, at the end
of the day the word of God is
00:20:58.82\00:21:01.45
what unites us as Seventh-day
Adventists and so forth.
00:21:01.48\00:21:04.80
Our understanding
as of the Seventh-day
00:21:04.83\00:21:06.07
Adventist Church policy is
ultimately a representation
00:21:06.10\00:21:09.80
or our understanding of
God's word put into practice.
00:21:09.83\00:21:14.00
And the question that I have is
00:21:14.03\00:21:17.15
if the purpose of the General
Conference is to unite us?
00:21:17.18\00:21:20.32
Do you feel that it is
fulfilling that, that goal,
00:21:20.35\00:21:24.30
the goal of unity especially in,
00:21:24.33\00:21:27.14
you know, in the
light of the fact
00:21:27.17\00:21:28.38
that it is at
General Conference Sessions
00:21:28.41\00:21:30.10
that many young
people get the perception
00:21:30.13\00:21:32.80
that unity is not taking
place but the opposite is.
00:21:32.83\00:21:37.80
Well, I think simply depends
on a person's perspective.
00:21:43.10\00:21:47.70
A General Conference
Session is not necessarily
00:21:47.73\00:21:51.04
a rubber stamp arrangement.
00:21:51.07\00:21:53.52
Now people come to a session
00:21:53.55\00:21:55.33
or to an annual
council or spring meeting,
00:21:55.36\00:21:59.60
we have over 300 members
00:21:59.63\00:22:02.58
of the General
Conference Executive Committee.
00:22:02.61\00:22:04.88
They come from
every single division.
00:22:04.91\00:22:06.62
They represent administrators,
laypeople, frontline workers,
00:22:06.65\00:22:12.95
people are free to
express their opinion
00:22:12.98\00:22:16.30
and they ought to do that.
00:22:16.33\00:22:17.77
But it ought to
be done in a spirit
00:22:17.80\00:22:20.96
of intense reliance
upon the word of God,
00:22:20.99\00:22:25.20
on the council of the spirit
of prophecy, and of prayer.
00:22:25.23\00:22:29.35
And one of the things that
we have attempted to do recently
00:22:29.38\00:22:33.06
is to spend much
more time in prayer
00:22:33.09\00:22:36.07
at the General
Conference Annual Councils
00:22:36.10\00:22:39.08
that we have and spring meeting
00:22:39.11\00:22:41.07
and certainly at the
General Conference Session,
00:22:41.10\00:22:42.92
we will be doing that as
well where we pray together
00:22:42.95\00:22:46.31
in order to find
the kind of unity
00:22:46.34\00:22:48.58
that Jesus prayed
for himself in John 17.
00:22:48.61\00:22:53.90
So when people see
that there is disagreement
00:22:53.93\00:22:57.20
and that there are
opinions being shared
00:22:57.23\00:23:00.45
that actually
should not be a sign
00:23:00.48\00:23:04.26
that there is
not necessarily unity
00:23:04.29\00:23:06.80
but that there is an
expression that is open,
00:23:06.83\00:23:09.39
I mean, the Lord has
given us freedom of conscience.
00:23:09.42\00:23:13.59
And let's just take for
instance a particular issue
00:23:13.62\00:23:18.95
that is very high
on people's minds,
00:23:18.98\00:23:22.34
the ordination of
women to the gospel ministry.
00:23:22.37\00:23:25.19
And we have setup an arrangement
00:23:25.22\00:23:28.05
where we have a Theology
of Ordination Study Committee
00:23:28.08\00:23:31.06
with many representatives
from varying views.
00:23:31.09\00:23:35.14
Different divisions
are weighing in on that,
00:23:35.17\00:23:39.18
every division
has reviewed things
00:23:39.21\00:23:41.80
and are putting their own
presentations to the committee,
00:23:41.83\00:23:48.44
it'll be coming up in just
00:23:48.47\00:23:49.64
about another
couple of weeks or so.
00:23:49.67\00:23:52.28
We've had two meetings already,
00:23:52.31\00:23:54.64
another one this month
and another one in June.
00:23:54.67\00:23:57.62
The issue will be
presented to the Annual Council
00:23:57.65\00:24:01.32
where there'll be
full representation.
00:24:01.35\00:24:04.17
We are not hiding anything,
00:24:04.20\00:24:06.30
we're wanting to do
things in an open way
00:24:06.33\00:24:08.14
but there will be
differences of opinion.
00:24:08.17\00:24:11.24
How do we handle that?
00:24:11.27\00:24:13.45
How we do we handle
items that are very flammable
00:24:13.48\00:24:17.35
and very emotional and that
can only be done on our knees.
00:24:17.38\00:24:22.65
And done in a very prayerful way
00:24:22.68\00:24:24.66
and I believe
that God will guide.
00:24:24.69\00:24:27.16
I suppose the biggest
question that needs to probably
00:24:27.19\00:24:30.43
be answered is not necessarily
that particular question
00:24:30.46\00:24:33.68
or other questions that
will be certainly coming up.
00:24:33.71\00:24:37.72
But what do you do,
00:24:37.75\00:24:40.39
let's say that this
particular question is,
00:24:40.42\00:24:43.42
and I have full thought
00:24:43.45\00:24:46.02
that it will be sent to
the General Conference Session
00:24:46.05\00:24:48.82
to have full
exposure and discussion,
00:24:48.85\00:24:52.43
what happens to you when
your particular viewpoint
00:24:52.46\00:24:58.99
in the final
analysis is not accepted
00:24:59.02\00:25:04.81
and you find
yourself facing a challenge
00:25:04.84\00:25:08.77
whichever way it may go?
00:25:08.80\00:25:10.12
And I don't know
exactly which way it'll go.
00:25:10.15\00:25:14.13
What do you do?
00:25:14.16\00:25:15.67
Is your church and the mission
of the church worth more to you
00:25:15.70\00:25:22.54
than some personal
impassioned conviction?
00:25:22.57\00:25:28.27
Now that's something
that you have to decide
00:25:28.30\00:25:29.99
between the Lord and yourself.
00:25:30.02\00:25:32.49
And I would
certainly, as I understand,
00:25:32.52\00:25:36.80
Daniel and Revelation
as I understand prophetic
00:25:36.83\00:25:39.89
understanding within
spirit of prophecy council
00:25:39.92\00:25:43.20
that the church at
the end will be united
00:25:43.23\00:25:46.52
in its great mission to proclaim
00:25:46.55\00:25:48.83
the three angels' messages
00:25:48.86\00:25:50.95
and to help people know
that Christ is coming soon.
00:25:50.98\00:25:54.05
So I think as people
look at how the church works,
00:25:54.08\00:25:58.60
they should not
become discouraged,
00:25:58.63\00:26:01.11
they should pray more
00:26:01.14\00:26:02.38
enter into the
discussion and activities,
00:26:02.41\00:26:05.40
and realize that the Holy Spirit
00:26:05.43\00:26:07.39
is gonna lead
this church to victory.
00:26:07.42\00:26:11.84
Amen, I-- were you
gonna say something?
00:26:11.87\00:26:13.66
No, okay, go ahead.
00:26:13.69\00:26:16.34
I would-- just to point out,
00:26:16.37\00:26:18.04
this is not new
for God's church.
00:26:18.07\00:26:20.37
The longest single
portion of the Book of Acts
00:26:20.40\00:26:23.87
deals with the issue of unity.
00:26:23.90\00:26:25.81
Acts 10-15 is about when God
is doing something in the body,
00:26:25.84\00:26:31.41
how will we relate and
the significant disagreements
00:26:31.44\00:26:34.86
are all recorded
there very candidly for us
00:26:34.89\00:26:37.83
so that we can see how
God's Church resolves issues.
00:26:37.86\00:26:42.39
That's a biblical way
to go about doing business.
00:26:42.42\00:26:45.11
And it's one that we ought
to be paying more attention to
00:26:45.14\00:26:47.84
as we move forward toward
00:26:47.87\00:26:49.12
important
decisions on our landscape.
00:26:49.15\00:26:51.87
I appreciate what you
had to say about unity
00:26:51.90\00:26:55.65
not necessarily
being absolute uniformity
00:26:55.68\00:26:58.43
of everyone
thinking exactly the same.
00:26:58.46\00:27:00.65
I'm wondering if you can
00:27:00.68\00:27:02.85
perhaps clarify a
little bit from me.
00:27:02.88\00:27:06.24
What the difference is
between being able to have
00:27:06.27\00:27:10.22
differences of
opinion within the church
00:27:10.25\00:27:12.33
and being able to
have that discussion
00:27:12.36\00:27:13.99
and not all having to
think precisely the same
00:27:14.02\00:27:17.23
and how the General Conference
responds to that versus
00:27:17.26\00:27:20.72
when the General
Conference enacts policies
00:27:20.75\00:27:22.61
that they expect
the church to follow.
00:27:22.64\00:27:29.07
Unity in the Book of Acts
is really based on four things.
00:27:29.10\00:27:34.27
When you look at
the Book of Acts,
00:27:34.30\00:27:36.31
there is a
passion for Jesus Christ.
00:27:36.34\00:27:39.31
There is a commitment to Christ.
00:27:39.34\00:27:41.41
The unity in the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:27:41.44\00:27:44.76
is based on a
common commitment to Christ
00:27:44.79\00:27:49.33
and the desire to do His will.
00:27:49.36\00:27:51.54
Secondly, when you look
through the Book of Acts,
00:27:51.57\00:27:53.83
there is a commitment
based on biblical truth.
00:27:53.86\00:27:59.01
The church in the
Book of Acts saw Jesus
00:27:59.04\00:28:01.16
as the fulfillment
of the Old Testament,
00:28:01.19\00:28:03.26
so there was a real
sense of a prophetic identity
00:28:03.29\00:28:06.99
in the Book of Acts.
00:28:07.02\00:28:08.67
Thirdly, in the Book of Acts,
00:28:08.70\00:28:10.17
there was a
unity based on mission.
00:28:10.20\00:28:12.95
This idea of reaching
the world with the gospel.
00:28:12.98\00:28:15.51
And fourthly, in
the Book of Acts,
00:28:15.54\00:28:17.15
there was a common
church organization,
00:28:17.18\00:28:19.76
you look at the
conflict between Jew and Gentile
00:28:19.79\00:28:23.81
and over circumcision in Acts 15
00:28:23.84\00:28:26.34
and so there was
common church organization.
00:28:26.37\00:28:29.27
So that was the
very basis of unity.
00:28:29.30\00:28:32.24
Within that context of
unity, there can be diversity.
00:28:32.27\00:28:37.26
There can be
differences of opinion
00:28:37.29\00:28:39.34
but commitment to Christ
guided by the Holy Spirit
00:28:39.37\00:28:42.32
into common biblical
truth focused on mission
00:28:42.35\00:28:46.25
and focused on a sense
of church organization.
00:28:46.28\00:28:49.92
Now what if one
part of the church,
00:28:49.95\00:28:54.04
one entity of the
church disregards a policy
00:28:54.07\00:28:59.20
voted by the corporate church?
00:28:59.23\00:29:01.69
What can be done?
00:29:01.72\00:29:03.37
In the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:29:03.40\00:29:05.59
we don't have
fiats that come down
00:29:05.62\00:29:08.09
from the General Conference
00:29:08.12\00:29:09.99
that dictate what
each of the entities
00:29:10.02\00:29:12.59
whether their local churches'
conferences or unions do.
00:29:12.62\00:29:16.45
But we can express
which we have done recently
00:29:16.48\00:29:20.63
strong disapproval
for a constituent group
00:29:20.66\00:29:24.36
or constituent groups that have
stepped outside of that policy.
00:29:24.39\00:29:29.04
So what can the
General Conference do
00:29:29.07\00:29:30.93
if a constituent
group sets-- well, a policy?
00:29:30.96\00:29:34.24
It can simply express
its disapproval for that
00:29:34.27\00:29:38.05
which we have done in
varying days in certain issues.
00:29:38.08\00:29:43.51
What is policy?
Policy is not doctrine.
00:29:43.54\00:29:48.77
Policy can be changeable
00:29:48.80\00:29:50.85
but policy is our
mutual understanding
00:29:50.88\00:29:54.63
and a common
agreement, a covenant
00:29:54.66\00:29:57.57
that we make
together as the body of Christ
00:29:57.60\00:30:01.09
on the way we're going to act.
00:30:01.12\00:30:02.84
That's why it's so critical.
00:30:02.87\00:30:05.29
I guess I would ask a question,
00:30:05.32\00:30:06.80
then what about the--
what about tithe if it comes,
00:30:06.83\00:30:10.19
how would tithe fit
into this whole thing?
00:30:10.22\00:30:14.04
Are you speaking in terms of
00:30:19.32\00:30:20.81
how the
obligation of paying tithe
00:30:20.84\00:30:23.69
or returning tithe?
00:30:23.72\00:30:25.33
Or the-- We believe
the tithe for example is,
00:30:25.36\00:30:29.75
you know, is--
00:30:29.78\00:30:31.24
belongs in God's
storehouse and there's,
00:30:31.27\00:30:33.03
you know, the
biblical of returning tithe,
00:30:33.06\00:30:35.28
the tithe going to
the General Conference,
00:30:35.31\00:30:36.96
the General Conference
distributing that tithe back,
00:30:36.99\00:30:39.40
the system of
tithing is a biblical system
00:30:39.43\00:30:42.34
and I would assume
it's also a policy.
00:30:42.37\00:30:44.92
And so there is to some degree--
00:30:44.95\00:30:48.63
is there a consistency between
the policies at the church,
00:30:48.66\00:30:52.13
for example, has do you--
00:30:52.16\00:30:54.05
I don't know if you
understand what I'm--
00:30:54.08\00:30:55.83
In terms of the
principle of tithing,
00:30:55.86\00:30:59.36
we do take it
directly from scripture.
00:30:59.39\00:31:01.75
There are many
studies that have been done,
00:31:01.78\00:31:06.04
our treasury department spent,
00:31:06.07\00:31:09.39
well, they along with
many leaders, spent over
00:31:09.42\00:31:13.36
I don't maybe
seven years, six years
00:31:13.39\00:31:17.44
in a particular
commission on tithe
00:31:17.47\00:31:20.26
to help define exactly how
one ought to approach this,
00:31:20.29\00:31:24.57
what it can be used for,
and all that kind of thing.
00:31:24.60\00:31:27.23
We do believe that tithe is
for the support of the ministry
00:31:27.26\00:31:32.65
and direct evangelistic activity
00:31:32.68\00:31:35.23
and the mission of the church.
00:31:35.26\00:31:37.11
It's not to be used
for constructing churches.
00:31:37.14\00:31:40.64
It's not to be used for just
00:31:40.67\00:31:42.23
whatever someone
thinks is a good cause
00:31:42.26\00:31:45.42
but it is to be
given to the storehouse
00:31:45.45\00:31:47.58
and then once
you return your tithe
00:31:47.61\00:31:50.26
because we use the word return,
00:31:50.29\00:31:52.21
it's not yours anyway
00:31:52.24\00:31:53.85
but then the church would decide
00:31:53.88\00:31:56.18
and not an individual.
00:31:56.21\00:31:59.21
That along with other aspects
helps to unify the church
00:31:59.24\00:32:04.35
now that the
interesting question
00:32:04.38\00:32:05.81
that Natasha asked regarding
00:32:05.84\00:32:11.46
the flexibility in how
unity and uniformity compare.
00:32:11.49\00:32:19.27
I think that we have
to look at the big picture
00:32:19.30\00:32:22.75
and realize that
there are some things
00:32:22.78\00:32:25.38
that the Holy Spirit
is in full control of.
00:32:25.41\00:32:28.69
In other words,
00:32:28.72\00:32:29.84
the Spirit will
lead us into all truth.
00:32:29.87\00:32:32.71
We have to believe
that theologically,
00:32:32.74\00:32:34.94
under the guidance
of the Holy Spirit,
00:32:34.97\00:32:36.55
we will understand
what the Bible says.
00:32:36.58\00:32:38.77
Now there's a big
difference between that
00:32:38.80\00:32:40.44
and what color of carpeting
00:32:40.47\00:32:42.02
your local church should put in.
00:32:42.05\00:32:44.80
And yet, in both of those areas,
00:32:44.83\00:32:47.96
there is an incredible need
00:32:47.99\00:32:51.07
and I'm gonna share it
in the sermon as well today.
00:32:51.10\00:32:55.02
A need for
humility and submissiveness.
00:32:55.05\00:32:58.74
Because if you happen to
like a red carpet in the church
00:32:58.77\00:33:02.43
but they vote a blue carpet,
00:33:02.46\00:33:04.45
is that gonna wreck
your Christian experience?
00:33:04.48\00:33:08.07
If something
theologically is voted
00:33:08.10\00:33:11.71
and you see
that the entire group
00:33:11.74\00:33:14.05
votes in a certain direction
00:33:14.08\00:33:15.54
and you're just
out there on a limb,
00:33:15.57\00:33:17.25
are you gonna say,
00:33:17.28\00:33:18.39
"No, I defiantly stand
here and say, you're wrong."
00:33:18.42\00:33:22.27
Or do you submit to
the Lord and to the church
00:33:22.30\00:33:27.33
as it moves in a spiritual way?
00:33:27.36\00:33:30.77
Thank you. Let me just--
00:33:30.80\00:33:32.34
I want to come
back to your question.
00:33:32.37\00:33:33.71
Yes, please.
00:33:33.74\00:33:34.79
'Cause let me rephrase it
and then if my question is
00:33:34.82\00:33:39.00
if tithe is a part of
church policy and other,
00:33:39.03\00:33:42.89
you know, you have not
just women's ordination
00:33:42.92\00:33:44.74
but you have
the issue of sports,
00:33:44.77\00:33:46.79
you know, in our schools
00:33:46.82\00:33:49.02
or music in
these sort of things.
00:33:49.05\00:33:51.91
If tithe is a policy
00:33:51.94\00:33:53.17
and there are
also other policies
00:33:53.20\00:33:55.79
just women's
ordination was mentioned.
00:33:55.82\00:33:57.94
Why is there a difference
in the way that the church,
00:33:57.97\00:34:01.53
I don't want to say
discipline, but in other words,
00:34:01.56\00:34:03.86
if I decided to
divert my tithe or to--
00:34:03.89\00:34:06.72
if I was a church entity
00:34:06.75\00:34:08.08
or not send forth my
tithe according to policy
00:34:08.11\00:34:10.82
would I only get a letter from,
00:34:10.85\00:34:13.02
you know, the Review and Herald
00:34:13.05\00:34:15.51
or the General
Conference or whatever?
00:34:15.54\00:34:18.30
I'd probably
come by to visit you.
00:34:18.33\00:34:20.20
Okay.
00:34:20.23\00:34:22.93
Don't tempt me, don't--
00:34:22.96\00:34:26.70
Israel, I think
your deeper question
00:34:26.73\00:34:29.39
really what's behind
the question is this.
00:34:29.42\00:34:33.29
We're talking not about
individuals but entities
00:34:33.32\00:34:36.99
and I think that's an
important distinction.
00:34:37.02\00:34:39.75
If an entity consciously chooses
00:34:39.78\00:34:44.19
to violate a voted church policy
00:34:44.22\00:34:46.91
and again let's define
what a church policy is.
00:34:46.94\00:34:51.25
A policy is a mutual
agreement or a covenant
00:34:51.28\00:34:55.77
that we make as
the body of Christ
00:34:55.80\00:34:57.84
of how we want to act.
00:34:57.87\00:35:00.03
It is our best understanding
of a topic at that given time.
00:35:00.06\00:35:04.65
A policy is not doctrine.
00:35:04.68\00:35:07.38
Doctrine like the
Sabbath does not change
00:35:07.41\00:35:10.28
but policies can change.
00:35:10.31\00:35:12.52
We can see different
aspects of that policy.
00:35:12.55\00:35:15.65
So let me come right to
the heart of your question.
00:35:15.68\00:35:20.21
What if an entity chooses
to violate a particular policy
00:35:20.24\00:35:24.36
whatever that
policy is consciously
00:35:24.39\00:35:27.01
because they feel
conscienciously in
00:35:27.04\00:35:29.81
not out of harmony
with that policy, okay.
00:35:29.84\00:35:32.98
If they do that,
they're on a slippery slope.
00:35:33.01\00:35:39.50
Although, the General Conference
00:35:39.53\00:35:41.30
does not have
constituent authority
00:35:41.33\00:35:43.89
because that union
conference etcetera
00:35:43.92\00:35:46.35
has constituent authority.
00:35:46.38\00:35:48.73
Here is the slippery slope.
00:35:48.76\00:35:50.25
It's precisely the
question you've raised.
00:35:50.28\00:35:53.41
How then do you deal
with others who may say,
00:35:53.44\00:35:57.15
"My conscience is leading
me in tithe or other areas?"
00:35:57.18\00:36:01.03
So I think the
question you've raised
00:36:01.06\00:36:02.89
from a young
person's perspective
00:36:02.92\00:36:05.09
is a question
that we wrestle with
00:36:05.12\00:36:07.44
in General Conference leadership
00:36:07.47\00:36:09.39
because we don't have
constituent authority,
00:36:09.42\00:36:12.33
each individual group does.
00:36:12.36\00:36:14.72
And I think our
concern is this opens the door
00:36:14.75\00:36:21.22
for other open
violations of policy
00:36:21.25\00:36:24.32
in the area of tithe,
00:36:24.35\00:36:25.63
in the area of
certain sexuality issues
00:36:25.66\00:36:27.67
that people are gonna say,
00:36:27.70\00:36:28.73
"Look, this is a
matter of conscience
00:36:28.76\00:36:30.86
in the matter of a
variety of other things."
00:36:30.89\00:36:33.88
So this leads us to prayerfully
00:36:33.91\00:36:38.24
work together in a process
00:36:38.27\00:36:40.66
if policy needs to be changed,
00:36:40.69\00:36:42.85
not to try to force that change.
00:36:42.88\00:36:46.17
But I think
submission, respect, love,
00:36:46.20\00:36:50.31
concern for one another
00:36:50.34\00:36:52.38
that we're part of
the body of Christ.
00:36:52.41\00:36:54.73
And in the final analysis,
the things that you unite us
00:36:54.76\00:36:56.96
are far greater than
the things that divide us.
00:36:56.99\00:37:01.22
If I may, it's
kind of hard to speak
00:37:01.25\00:37:03.33
sitting between
these two gentlemen
00:37:03.36\00:37:04.94
about policies of--
00:37:04.97\00:37:07.02
but now they're good godly man.
00:37:07.05\00:37:10.65
I talk with thousands
of young adults every year
00:37:10.68\00:37:13.79
about their church
and in North America,
00:37:13.82\00:37:16.53
we're trying to do a
better job of just listening.
00:37:16.56\00:37:19.18
And one of the challenges,
I think, we're facing now
00:37:19.21\00:37:22.11
is when young
people ask the question,
00:37:22.14\00:37:24.02
we can see the process
00:37:24.05\00:37:26.48
but then there are some
who begin to doubt the process.
00:37:26.51\00:37:29.44
And I would hope and
pray that as we move forward
00:37:29.47\00:37:32.11
that we're gonna
look in our processes
00:37:32.14\00:37:34.26
because what happens is
00:37:34.29\00:37:35.87
when we look at
some of the things
00:37:35.90\00:37:36.99
that we're being
challenged by now,
00:37:37.02\00:37:38.92
somehow I would
adjoin their own conclusions
00:37:38.95\00:37:42.30
in terms of how they
think things are gonna turn out.
00:37:42.33\00:37:44.71
Now some might say,
00:37:44.74\00:37:45.77
"Well, that's
jumping ahead of the Lord,
00:37:45.80\00:37:47.00
that's jumping
ahead of the process"
00:37:47.03\00:37:48.18
but let's look at it
an example for a moment.
00:37:48.21\00:37:51.16
In North America, I
mean, culture and diversity
00:37:51.19\00:37:54.11
and all those it
does impact us greatly.
00:37:54.14\00:37:57.04
There are certain practices
here that you may find that
00:37:57.07\00:37:59.84
don't take place in
other parts of the world.
00:37:59.87\00:38:01.65
I gave an example,
the very first time
00:38:01.68\00:38:03.44
my wife and I went to
a certain part of Africa,
00:38:03.47\00:38:05.77
she was not
accustomed to walking behind me
00:38:05.80\00:38:08.51
along with the other
ministers' wife, you know,
00:38:08.54\00:38:11.14
and that was
very difficult for her
00:38:11.17\00:38:12.47
but that was a practice there
00:38:12.50\00:38:13.58
that was
apparently a custom there.
00:38:13.61\00:38:15.87
But at the same
time, if we come together
00:38:15.90\00:38:17.74
at the same table,
trying to make the decision,
00:38:17.77\00:38:20.00
we have to
really look at process
00:38:20.03\00:38:21.60
as to how that
brings us together
00:38:21.63\00:38:23.37
and that, and
that our foundation,
00:38:23.40\00:38:26.02
our orientation,
that base is different.
00:38:26.05\00:38:28.57
Now we can go to the word of God
00:38:28.60\00:38:29.90
and find the foundation
00:38:29.93\00:38:31.01
that hopefully will
unite us and our thinking.
00:38:31.04\00:38:33.13
But I think at the same time,
00:38:33.16\00:38:34.53
young people are
looking at that saying,
00:38:34.56\00:38:36.10
"Let's look at our process,
let's pray about our process
00:38:36.13\00:38:38.83
because we look
at a world feel"--
00:38:38.86\00:38:40.09
I pray for Elder
Wilson, I pray for Mark
00:38:40.12\00:38:41.91
and other world leaders
00:38:41.94\00:38:43.19
because it's a difficult task
trying to manage a world feel.
00:38:43.22\00:38:47.89
I mean, I honestly pray for them
00:38:47.92\00:38:49.30
regardless of how I
feel about the process,
00:38:49.33\00:38:51.83
regardless of how you feel
about the outcomes of things,
00:38:51.86\00:38:54.18
I know it's a
difficult challenge
00:38:54.21\00:38:55.48
trying to bring
everybody together
00:38:55.51\00:38:56.95
with the same type of thinking
00:38:56.98\00:38:58.29
but I think the spirit of Christ
00:38:58.32\00:39:00.05
is what unites us.
00:39:00.08\00:39:01.31
So that if I
disagree with a position,
00:39:01.34\00:39:03.54
I'm not mad at my church
00:39:03.57\00:39:05.33
but we are still
in love with Christ.
00:39:05.36\00:39:07.19
So let me just jump in
00:39:07.22\00:39:08.25
'cause I am
listening to the conversion
00:39:08.28\00:39:10.52
and I appreciate it
00:39:10.55\00:39:11.91
but we're sort of
talking about lofty ideals,
00:39:11.94\00:39:15.51
so we're talking about
General Conference Session
00:39:15.54\00:39:17.45
and, you know, a young
person may even come to hear
00:39:17.48\00:39:20.50
and hear the great
sort of what we might call
00:39:20.53\00:39:23.54
best-case-scenario answers.
00:39:23.57\00:39:25.51
But the reality is
there's a lot of young people
00:39:25.54\00:39:27.30
that aren't
experiencing best case.
00:39:27.33\00:39:29.67
And so for
instance, you pick the--
00:39:29.70\00:39:32.17
your favorite hot
topic if it's music,
00:39:32.20\00:39:34.16
if it's women's
ordination, whatever it is,
00:39:34.19\00:39:36.28
there may be a young person
that comes and listens to you
00:39:36.31\00:39:38.93
and sees the policy
in the church manual
00:39:38.96\00:39:41.65
on music for instance
00:39:41.68\00:39:43.05
and I was very
vulnerable with you last night,
00:39:43.08\00:39:44.85
expressed my views on music
I really don't care about it
00:39:44.88\00:39:48.80
which-- don't
hold me against that.
00:39:48.83\00:39:50.65
But I've looked at
it very objectively
00:39:50.68\00:39:54.45
and the reality is
00:39:54.48\00:39:55.79
if we're just being
honest they will listen to you
00:39:55.82\00:39:58.96
but then they'll go
back to their local church
00:39:58.99\00:40:00.84
and the local church
isn't following that.
00:40:00.87\00:40:03.44
And so what
advice or what response
00:40:03.47\00:40:07.19
would you have for
the young people here that
00:40:07.22\00:40:09.34
they're hearing your
great lofty philosophic ideas
00:40:09.37\00:40:13.24
which are fantastic
and we can appreciate
00:40:13.27\00:40:14.93
but then we're not seeing it
practiced at the local level.
00:40:14.96\00:40:21.82
I watched over 35 years
now from when I was in college,
00:40:21.85\00:40:27.43
the value of
persistence in the life
00:40:27.46\00:40:30.59
of changing a local
congregation's perspective
00:40:30.62\00:40:34.17
and view point
about many things.
00:40:34.20\00:40:37.31
There is nothing so successful
00:40:37.34\00:40:40.85
and so powerful
as Godly persistence.
00:40:40.88\00:40:43.58
If you have a
conviction about music
00:40:43.61\00:40:46.06
in the life of your congregation
00:40:46.09\00:40:47.52
or a form of worship
that doesn't seem to you
00:40:47.55\00:40:50.05
to be following the
policy that the church has
00:40:50.08\00:40:52.57
offered guidelines on
00:40:52.60\00:40:54.63
or seems to be moving against
the council of scripture,
00:40:54.66\00:40:57.77
you've got an
obligation, a responsibility
00:40:57.80\00:41:00.49
and I would add a privilege
to go and make that case
00:41:00.52\00:41:03.97
to the responsible
leaders of your congregation
00:41:04.00\00:41:06.43
and to persist in it.
00:41:06.46\00:41:08.34
I have watched young adults
00:41:08.37\00:41:10.00
successfully change
significant policies
00:41:10.03\00:41:13.10
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:41:13.13\00:41:14.76
because of their persistence
00:41:14.79\00:41:16.46
in continuing to
bring their perspective
00:41:16.49\00:41:18.66
in front of leadership.
00:41:18.69\00:41:20.02
That works at the local level,
00:41:20.05\00:41:21.64
it also works at the
General Conference level.
00:41:21.67\00:41:24.31
And that's why many
of us are encouraging
00:41:24.34\00:41:27.84
stay with the process,
don't drop out, don't back out
00:41:27.87\00:41:31.33
when something in
your local congregation
00:41:31.36\00:41:33.46
is out of line.
00:41:33.49\00:41:34.70
And I've pastored
enough congregations
00:41:34.73\00:41:37.00
to know that there
can be things out of line.
00:41:37.03\00:41:39.48
So I'm-- there's no suggestion
00:41:39.51\00:41:41.19
that there's some
panacea of righteousness
00:41:41.22\00:41:43.99
all every where.
00:41:44.02\00:41:45.27
There are problems
that need to be addressed
00:41:45.30\00:41:47.10
but they can be
if we're respectful,
00:41:47.13\00:41:49.81
careful, thoughtful,
prayerful and persistent.
00:41:49.84\00:41:53.38
I appreciate that, I really do
00:41:53.41\00:41:55.18
but again sort of
best case scenario.
00:41:55.21\00:41:58.33
They're relentless,
they're trying to get
00:41:58.36\00:42:00.78
their local church to
subscribe to the church manual,
00:42:00.81\00:42:04.60
just give us some council
when that's not happening.
00:42:04.63\00:42:08.70
Even as if we've been
persistent as you're suggesting
00:42:08.73\00:42:11.57
but then what happens
when that's not happening
00:42:11.60\00:42:14.01
even after the persistence.
00:42:14.04\00:42:17.65
The genius of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:42:17.68\00:42:20.55
is that this is a global church,
00:42:20.58\00:42:23.51
its global-ness.
00:42:23.54\00:42:25.20
And when we study, for example,
00:42:25.23\00:42:27.69
the constitution and the bylaws,
00:42:27.72\00:42:29.76
I like a section there
00:42:29.79\00:42:32.46
that it is "You are
part of part of part of"
00:42:32.49\00:42:35.50
that means a local church
is part of a local conference.
00:42:35.53\00:42:40.28
And the local conference
is a part of the union
00:42:40.31\00:42:43.80
and the union is
the building block
00:42:43.83\00:42:46.18
of the General Conference
00:42:46.21\00:42:47.40
and of course the
division is a division
00:42:47.43\00:42:49.77
of the General Conference.
00:42:49.80\00:42:52.16
So this is
beautiful, it is really genius
00:42:52.19\00:42:56.01
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:42:56.04\00:42:58.38
that means the first thing
00:42:58.41\00:43:01.41
that I would like to
advise humbly is that
00:43:01.44\00:43:05.17
we need to have a
strong conviction first
00:43:05.20\00:43:08.46
that this is the church of God.
00:43:08.49\00:43:10.46
Amen.
00:43:10.49\00:43:11.56
This is the remnant church.
00:43:11.59\00:43:14.29
According to the prophecy,
this is a prophetic movement.
00:43:14.32\00:43:17.79
There will be no other
denomination after this.
00:43:17.82\00:43:21.30
I think that helps us to
put everything in perspective
00:43:21.33\00:43:26.89
when we deal
with difficult issues,
00:43:26.92\00:43:29.43
it is just like a marriage.
00:43:29.46\00:43:31.79
If we have the commitment that
00:43:31.82\00:43:34.60
the solution is not
divorce or separation
00:43:34.63\00:43:37.49
then it will work it out.
00:43:37.52\00:43:39.59
You sit down and make it work.
00:43:39.62\00:43:41.90
But if you, your
commitment is so low
00:43:41.93\00:43:44.96
anything can say, "Oh,
no, this thing is not working.
00:43:44.99\00:43:48.32
I will be out of this."
00:43:48.35\00:43:50.04
So the first thing is to
00:43:50.07\00:43:52.20
a strong
commitment to the church
00:43:52.24\00:43:54.62
of course through
God and to His church.
00:43:54.65\00:43:56.91
This is a remnant
church and you are part of it.
00:43:56.94\00:44:00.73
I forgot to mention that
00:44:00.76\00:44:02.33
the first part is the
individual membership,
00:44:02.36\00:44:06.12
the individual member's
part of the local church.
00:44:06.15\00:44:09.39
So if you try very hard,
to pray humbly and to dialog
00:44:09.42\00:44:16.75
and it seems that
you don't go through,
00:44:16.78\00:44:21.18
don't give up.
00:44:21.21\00:44:22.37
Don't say,
"Okay, this is apostasy,
00:44:22.40\00:44:24.41
I'm out of here."
00:44:24.44\00:44:26.08
You continue to pray
and you continue to dialog
00:44:26.11\00:44:30.23
and the Holy Spirit will work.
00:44:30.26\00:44:33.01
And you continue and maybe
you don't find result at all
00:44:33.04\00:44:36.95
but you are sowing a seed,
00:44:36.98\00:44:40.29
the result will
germinate maybe after you.
00:44:40.32\00:44:43.26
So keep going, doing it
humbly but with perseverance
00:44:43.29\00:44:48.17
and the last thing I
would like to say is that
00:44:48.20\00:44:51.42
if you see that
00:44:51.45\00:44:52.80
don't lower your
commitment to a mission.
00:44:52.83\00:44:55.53
Amen.
00:44:55.56\00:44:56.59
You need rather to do
even more get involved more
00:44:56.62\00:45:01.07
and that will
help you to overcome
00:45:01.10\00:45:04.46
any kind of discouragement.
00:45:04.49\00:45:06.40
Amen.
00:45:06.43\00:45:08.41
Thank you.
00:45:08.44\00:45:09.47
As we move on to the
next top of the conversation
00:45:09.50\00:45:12.14
I have a question
here from a young person
00:45:12.17\00:45:15.69
who emailed it to
us, his name is Joel.
00:45:15.72\00:45:18.18
"Many young people
perceive the church
00:45:18.21\00:45:20.01
as having become
too institutionalized
00:45:20.04\00:45:21.70
and bureaucratic
00:45:21.73\00:45:23.22
playing defense
rather than innovating."
00:45:23.25\00:45:25.36
I'll stop the
question there continues on.
00:45:25.39\00:45:27.39
But I'm
wondering, what are things
00:45:27.42\00:45:29.48
that the General Conference
is doing in innovatively,
00:45:29.51\00:45:33.75
evangelizing or
targeting the world around us
00:45:33.78\00:45:36.23
that you can share with
us as young people today?
00:45:36.26\00:45:40.66
There are many
things that are happening
00:45:40.69\00:45:44.09
including small group
development all over the world,
00:45:44.12\00:45:47.70
mission to the cities
00:45:47.73\00:45:49.95
which is one of
the greatest challenges
00:45:49.98\00:45:51.89
I think that young
people have today to help us,
00:45:51.92\00:45:55.00
to reach over 50% of
the world's population
00:45:55.03\00:45:58.08
using spirit of
prophecy methods.
00:45:58.11\00:46:00.76
The
comprehensive health ministry
00:46:00.79\00:46:02.75
that we're trying to emphasize,
medical missionary work
00:46:02.78\00:46:06.32
which is very much a
part of the final loud to cry.
00:46:06.35\00:46:10.64
We have initiated
a wonderful program
00:46:10.67\00:46:13.41
which we hope will
grow, one year in mission
00:46:13.44\00:46:17.46
where young people
all over this world
00:46:17.49\00:46:20.32
will be sponsored
by their local churches
00:46:20.35\00:46:22.66
or by entities to give
one year in service locally
00:46:22.69\00:46:27.10
or it could be
outside of their local area.
00:46:27.13\00:46:30.94
We have international
evangelistic activity
00:46:30.97\00:46:35.49
that's taking place
in an unprecedented way.
00:46:35.52\00:46:39.27
We have
integrated media evangelism
00:46:39.30\00:46:42.58
which is rising to such a
level that it is phenomenal
00:46:42.61\00:46:49.60
what God is doing
through every platform
00:46:49.63\00:46:53.12
and format of media today.
00:46:53.15\00:46:56.22
But the most
important thing is that
00:46:56.25\00:46:58.99
age-old principle of
each one tell someone.
00:46:59.02\00:47:03.84
And I think we have to
comeback to that as well
00:47:03.87\00:47:06.57
but there are exploding
opportunities in evangelism.
00:47:06.60\00:47:13.37
One simple example of that,
00:47:13.40\00:47:15.02
later this
month, I'll be in India.
00:47:15.05\00:47:17.04
And, you know India is a country
00:47:17.07\00:47:18.97
of over 1 billion people.
00:47:19.00\00:47:21.73
It took us 100
years to have our first
00:47:21.76\00:47:24.23
100,000 members in India.
00:47:24.26\00:47:26.52
But in the last 15
years we have gone from about
00:47:26.55\00:47:30.01
100,000 members or actually,
00:47:30.04\00:47:32.91
we then continued to
develop our membership
00:47:32.94\00:47:35.61
but we've added a
million members in 15 years.
00:47:35.64\00:47:39.02
India has more
Seventh-day Adventists
00:47:39.05\00:47:40.58
than any country in
the world, 1.6 million.
00:47:40.61\00:47:43.18
But you talk about innovative
methods of evangelism,
00:47:43.21\00:47:45.73
we have village
workers, young people
00:47:45.76\00:47:48.01
going into villages in India
now beginning a Bible studies
00:47:48.04\00:47:52.38
and starting hundreds
and hundreds of young people
00:47:52.41\00:47:54.87
and Bible workers in India.
00:47:54.90\00:47:56.46
It's amazing
what's happening they're
00:47:56.49\00:47:58.16
Indians background
speaking the local languages,
00:47:58.19\00:48:01.19
and we'll have the largest
satellite evangelistic program
00:48:01.22\00:48:04.13
in the history of
the Adventist church
00:48:04.16\00:48:05.86
in a few weeks there.
00:48:05.89\00:48:07.98
We'll have 50,000 cities
00:48:08.01\00:48:10.61
involved in
downlinks across India.
00:48:10.64\00:48:13.18
So I think what Pastor
Wilson has said is so clear
00:48:13.21\00:48:17.80
and that is the integration
of every aspect of the church
00:48:17.83\00:48:22.92
whether it's
publishing, education,
00:48:22.95\00:48:26.80
whether it is media,
00:48:26.83\00:48:29.45
whether it's health ministry
00:48:29.48\00:48:32.20
into a
comprehensive evangelistic focus
00:48:32.23\00:48:36.70
uniting pastors and lay people.
00:48:36.73\00:48:39.64
This, I think, is the way
with the future for Adventism
00:48:39.67\00:48:42.97
constantly focusing on mission
00:48:43.00\00:48:45.75
in the
fulfillment of Matthew 24:14,
00:48:45.78\00:48:48.26
"This gospel of the kingdom
00:48:48.29\00:48:49.39
will be
preached in all the world
00:48:49.42\00:48:51.00
as a witness to all nations,
then the end shall come."
00:48:51.03\00:48:54.21
And I think one of the
things that we would hope
00:48:54.24\00:48:56.58
as church leaders is
that as you leave GYC,
00:48:56.61\00:49:00.33
you are more committed
to the mission of the church
00:49:00.36\00:49:05.42
than going back and arguing
00:49:05.45\00:49:07.65
about a particular
thing in the local church.
00:49:07.68\00:49:10.66
That you would go back
really with the passion
00:49:10.69\00:49:14.13
to be actively involved in
some aspect of soul winning
00:49:14.16\00:49:18.21
and winning people to Christ
00:49:18.24\00:49:19.65
and winning in for
the Adventist message.
00:49:19.68\00:49:23.97
I've been struck so many times
when I attend events like GYC
00:49:24.00\00:49:27.74
or the ASI Convention.
00:49:27.77\00:49:29.56
How important it is for
us to not define the church
00:49:29.59\00:49:33.27
by the leadership that comes
from the General Conference.
00:49:33.30\00:49:36.36
That is a portion
of what God is doing,
00:49:36.39\00:49:39.01
a significant guiding
portion but it is by no means
00:49:39.04\00:49:42.41
a description of
everything God's doing.
00:49:42.44\00:49:44.71
One definition
that someone has offered
00:49:44.74\00:49:46.48
for what
leadership ought to be doing
00:49:46.51\00:49:48.33
is figuring out
00:49:48.36\00:49:49.39
what the Holy Spirit
is doing in the church
00:49:49.42\00:49:51.28
and getting in on it.
00:49:51.31\00:49:52.53
What I walk and talk
through the exhibit halls,
00:49:52.56\00:49:55.00
when I talk with
young people here
00:49:55.03\00:49:57.13
I discover that the
Holy Spirit doesn't send
00:49:57.16\00:49:59.49
every good idea
through the General Conference.
00:49:59.52\00:50:01.92
In fact, the Holy
Spirit is it working
00:50:01.95\00:50:03.74
thousands of minds here,
00:50:03.77\00:50:05.56
inspiring them to move,
be creative, try new media,
00:50:05.59\00:50:09.80
talk with leadership,
00:50:09.83\00:50:11.18
ask for support,
ask for resources.
00:50:11.21\00:50:13.98
That's one of the
things that we can help with.
00:50:14.01\00:50:16.36
We're not here to come
up with all the good ideas,
00:50:16.39\00:50:18.50
we're here to help resource
00:50:18.53\00:50:19.94
what God is doing in the church.
00:50:19.97\00:50:21.49
Amen.
00:50:21.52\00:50:22.76
You're talking
about innovative things
00:50:22.79\00:50:24.65
in terms of evangelism.
00:50:24.68\00:50:26.90
One church area is even offering
00:50:26.93\00:50:32.18
special assistance
in funeral services
00:50:32.21\00:50:35.98
for those in communities
00:50:36.01\00:50:37.97
who seem to have no
connection to a church,
00:50:38.00\00:50:40.66
and, you know, out of that
you're able to touch lives.
00:50:40.69\00:50:43.50
You can use every
possible creative method
00:50:43.53\00:50:46.78
and what Pastor
Finley was saying
00:50:46.81\00:50:48.80
is absolutely correct.
00:50:48.83\00:50:50.43
Get involved in the
mission of the church
00:50:50.46\00:50:53.26
and not in fighting
00:50:53.29\00:50:55.22
and in heavy
discussions on things
00:50:55.25\00:50:58.19
that really are not
eternally of great value.
00:50:58.22\00:51:01.36
Amen.
00:51:01.39\00:51:03.40
Amen, thank you for that.
00:51:03.43\00:51:04.46
I appreciate that
and that's very inspiring
00:51:04.49\00:51:08.00
to know how we can get involved
in the mission of the church
00:51:08.03\00:51:10.63
without getting distracted.
00:51:10.66\00:51:12.75
Moving on to another question
00:51:12.78\00:51:14.12
that was sent in by an attendee,
00:51:14.15\00:51:16.66
this is a young woman says,
00:51:16.69\00:51:18.02
"How can I believe what
the Bible has to say about
00:51:18.05\00:51:20.86
God protecting us
when He didn't protect me
00:51:20.89\00:51:23.96
when I was a child
from sexual abuse?"
00:51:23.99\00:51:27.55
One of the tragedies of the life
00:51:31.94\00:51:34.24
the church throughout time
00:51:34.27\00:51:36.93
has been that sinful
human hearts take their sin
00:51:36.96\00:51:42.77
and by violence
affect other lives.
00:51:42.80\00:51:46.00
And the church
has to be very strong
00:51:46.03\00:51:48.70
in its statement
that it will not tolerate
00:51:48.73\00:51:51.55
this kind of behavior,
00:51:51.58\00:51:53.27
that it supports those
who've been victimized,
00:51:53.30\00:51:56.86
that it offers a place
for healing and restoration.
00:51:56.89\00:52:02.17
The challenge as you well--
00:52:02.20\00:52:03.60
as this questioner well-stated
00:52:03.63\00:52:05.96
is "Where was God
in all of this moment?"
00:52:05.99\00:52:08.88
Scripture tells
us that God weeps
00:52:08.91\00:52:11.79
with the
expression of human sin.
00:52:11.82\00:52:14.63
But that His decision to
allow human beings free choice
00:52:14.66\00:52:21.36
means that He can't step in
and intervene in every moment.
00:52:21.39\00:52:26.79
He continues to work to build up
00:52:26.82\00:52:29.76
to restore those who are hurt
and broken by life experiences
00:52:29.79\00:52:33.60
and to offer repentance
00:52:33.63\00:52:35.90
to those who were their abusers.
00:52:35.93\00:52:39.36
When we wrestle
with these issues,
00:52:39.39\00:52:41.34
we come back to
the ministry of saying
00:52:41.37\00:52:43.45
I have to trust God as Job said,
00:52:43.48\00:52:45.62
"In the middle of my pain,
in the middle of my struggle."
00:52:45.65\00:52:48.35
I'm sitting next to a
brother who's been through
00:52:48.38\00:52:51.20
some of that pain
and some of that struggle
00:52:51.23\00:52:53.68
recently in his own life
00:52:53.71\00:52:55.33
and I hope he'll
tell you about it.
00:52:55.36\00:52:58.39
Thank you so much.
00:52:58.42\00:53:00.55
This is really, I
would say very real issue.
00:53:00.58\00:53:08.17
Last year, it is
already last year, this is 2014.
00:53:08.20\00:53:12.87
It has been a very difficult
time for me and for my family
00:53:12.90\00:53:17.31
because I have
lost three loved ones.
00:53:17.34\00:53:21.45
I started the year
by losing my nephew,
00:53:21.48\00:53:28.57
a dedicated young man, 38 years,
00:53:28.60\00:53:31.97
church elder died
a year ago, January.
00:53:32.00\00:53:37.15
And then my wife was
sick, struggled with cancer
00:53:37.18\00:53:42.57
and we did
everything, we prayed,
00:53:42.60\00:53:46.47
and did all the
treatment that we could give
00:53:46.50\00:53:50.28
and but finally
God allowed her to rest
00:53:50.31\00:53:53.56
about three months ago.
00:53:53.59\00:53:56.82
And we buried
her, that was on Sunday
00:53:56.85\00:54:03.45
and then my sister,
00:54:03.48\00:54:06.32
my sister died a
few days after that.
00:54:06.35\00:54:10.90
That was Wednesday night.
00:54:10.93\00:54:13.16
Burial was on Sunday
00:54:13.19\00:54:15.65
and then Wednesday
night my sister died
00:54:15.68\00:54:18.08
so three loved ones.
00:54:18.11\00:54:20.53
So I've been processing this.
00:54:20.56\00:54:23.79
Why?
00:54:23.82\00:54:25.24
Of course the first
thing I resolved is that
00:54:25.27\00:54:29.34
I should never blame God.
00:54:29.37\00:54:31.76
When I look, when I
look what He has done for me,
00:54:31.79\00:54:35.27
I've no right to say that
"No, God has abandoned me."
00:54:35.30\00:54:41.59
So the first thing I would say
00:54:41.62\00:54:43.48
if you pass through
challenges and difficulties
00:54:43.51\00:54:46.71
that I don't know
why and it is so much,
00:54:46.74\00:54:50.45
first thing is that
resolve by the grace of God,
00:54:50.48\00:54:53.45
not to blame God.
00:54:53.48\00:54:55.54
Secondly, we need also to know
00:54:55.57\00:55:00.42
that this world
is a battlefield,
00:55:00.45\00:55:03.65
we are in the middle
of the great controversy
00:55:03.68\00:55:06.34
and in a battlefield,
00:55:06.37\00:55:08.68
there are two camps
and you have casualties.
00:55:08.71\00:55:11.52
We should not either
say, well, it happened to me
00:55:11.55\00:55:15.44
because of my fault,
00:55:15.47\00:55:19.08
and then on top of
the grief you add guilt
00:55:19.11\00:55:22.68
and that will be even more.
00:55:22.71\00:55:24.68
Even if, let's say,
00:55:24.71\00:55:26.41
some of it is
because of your fault
00:55:26.44\00:55:28.16
you have also the
forgiveness of God
00:55:28.19\00:55:30.61
so we should not allow ourselves
00:55:30.64\00:55:33.09
to be overwhelmed by the grief,
00:55:33.12\00:55:35.68
overwhelmed by the guilt
00:55:35.71\00:55:38.09
because I just want
to read quickly text
00:55:38.12\00:55:41.22
that really
helped, it is very clear.
00:55:41.25\00:55:44.67
It is in Isaiah Chapter 53.
00:55:44.70\00:55:48.51
It is a very familiar text.
00:55:48.54\00:55:51.53
It is said in
verse 4 and verse 5.
00:55:51.56\00:55:54.82
Said, "Surely He
has borne our griefs
00:55:54.85\00:56:00.14
and carried our sorrows,
00:56:00.17\00:56:02.45
yet we esteemed Him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted."
00:56:02.48\00:56:07.89
And verse 5 says
00:56:07.92\00:56:09.42
"But He was wounded
for our transgressions,
00:56:09.45\00:56:12.50
He was bruised
for our iniquities,
00:56:12.53\00:56:15.61
the chastisement for
our peace was upon Him,
00:56:15.64\00:56:18.89
and by His
stripes we are healed."
00:56:18.92\00:56:22.94
So God is a healer,
not only a physical healer
00:56:22.97\00:56:28.36
but emotional, spiritual,
00:56:28.39\00:56:30.90
so those who experienced abuse
or something difficult in life,
00:56:30.93\00:56:35.26
remember, God is a
healer and He heals now
00:56:35.29\00:56:40.77
and of course
the ultimate healing
00:56:40.80\00:56:42.97
is when Jesus comes,
00:56:43.00\00:56:44.73
when this temporary will go
00:56:44.76\00:56:47.27
and the permanent one will come.
00:56:47.30\00:56:49.79
So take courage,
don't be discouraged
00:56:49.82\00:56:53.82
or overwhelmed by this.
00:56:53.85\00:56:55.52
Look up to God
and God will help you
00:56:55.55\00:56:58.82
and be positive in the Lord.
00:56:58.85\00:57:01.89
Thank you, Elder Ratsara.
00:57:01.92\00:57:03.92
We do have--
00:57:03.95\00:57:05.55
and we appreciate
those-- the advice.
00:57:05.58\00:57:10.49
It's alarming the statistics
00:57:10.52\00:57:13.06
that we have
regarding sexual sins,
00:57:13.09\00:57:16.50
sexual temptation, etcetera.
00:57:16.53\00:57:18.58
Some statistics
that were emailed in,
00:57:18.61\00:57:21.39
48% of Christian students
struggle with pornography,
00:57:21.42\00:57:26.14
68% of these young
people are watching pornography
00:57:26.17\00:57:30.06
on Christian school computers.
00:57:30.09\00:57:32.77
They're owned by the
school on school equipment
00:57:32.80\00:57:35.18
or church equipment.
00:57:35.21\00:57:36.63
One in three women, 70% of men,
00:57:36.66\00:57:38.56
18-34 struggle with pornography
and self abuse, etcetera.
00:57:38.59\00:57:43.41
It seems as though
00:57:43.44\00:57:44.47
the Seventh-Day Adventist Church
00:57:44.50\00:57:45.79
doesn't provide
00:57:45.82\00:57:47.50
or what is the
Seventh-Day Adventist Church
00:57:47.53\00:57:49.43
doing to provide
support and resources
00:57:49.46\00:57:53.71
for these young
people in our church today?
00:57:53.74\00:57:59.97
Right now we're dealing
with a situation worldwide.
00:58:00.00\00:58:04.46
Where as our entire
world is just jacked up,
00:58:04.49\00:58:08.81
how we think, how we
process, how we see life.
00:58:08.84\00:58:14.22
Before we get to church,
00:58:14.25\00:58:17.09
we have a whole
world telling us that
00:58:17.12\00:58:18.74
if anything
feels good just do it.
00:58:18.77\00:58:22.16
Everything seems to
be redefined nowadays.
00:58:22.19\00:58:25.42
People don't care about
what the Word of God teaches.
00:58:25.45\00:58:27.88
Everyone comes up
with their own definition.
00:58:27.91\00:58:30.13
The moment someone
finishes the dissertation
00:58:30.16\00:58:31.95
then that becomes
social, you know, practice
00:58:31.98\00:58:34.20
and these kinds of things.
00:58:34.23\00:58:36.05
And I think one thing
we have to get back to is,
00:58:36.08\00:58:38.58
is what God intends
00:58:38.61\00:58:40.08
for our happiness in this world.
00:58:40.11\00:58:43.51
Right now we
have situation where
00:58:43.54\00:58:45.37
because of the internet
and access to the internet
00:58:45.40\00:58:47.54
all you got to do is
pull up your iPhone right here
00:58:47.57\00:58:49.39
and I can be sitting
here in a religious service
00:58:49.42\00:58:51.04
and pull up my iPhone and
see anything I want to see.
00:58:51.07\00:58:53.42
Our world has totally changed
00:58:53.45\00:58:55.34
and because of that easy access,
00:58:55.37\00:58:57.14
you say the parents
will watch your children,
00:58:57.17\00:58:59.10
teach your
children, train your children,
00:58:59.13\00:59:00.65
have devotion
with your children,
00:59:00.68\00:59:01.71
they can leave devotion
00:59:01.74\00:59:02.77
and pick up
their iPhone once again
00:59:02.80\00:59:04.34
and get easy
access to the stuff.
00:59:04.37\00:59:06.24
And so we're facing a
different kind of world
00:59:06.27\00:59:08.32
but having said that,
00:59:08.35\00:59:09.94
I think we have
responsibilities to society,
00:59:09.97\00:59:13.55
to be a standard for God
00:59:13.58\00:59:15.70
in terms of
standing up for what's right.
00:59:15.73\00:59:17.68
The challenge is
00:59:17.71\00:59:18.74
a lot of young
people are now confused
00:59:18.77\00:59:20.39
about what is
right and what is wrong
00:59:20.42\00:59:21.99
because what they're
seeing on television,
00:59:22.02\00:59:23.54
what they're hearing
from their friends, parents
00:59:23.57\00:59:26.05
and the church are no
longer educating young children
00:59:26.08\00:59:28.90
in terms of what is right.
00:59:28.93\00:59:30.15
I'm having young men ask
me, you know, how do I be a man?
00:59:30.18\00:59:33.93
A young would ask me how,
you know, how do I be woman?
00:59:33.96\00:59:36.36
Well, I asked my wife,
"Could you please talk to her?"
00:59:36.39\00:59:38.86
And so we are allowing
the world in the streets
00:59:38.89\00:59:41.44
to define for our children,
00:59:41.47\00:59:43.61
you know, what God
has intended for them
00:59:43.64\00:59:46.65
and it's becoming very confusing
00:59:46.68\00:59:47.94
so when we come
to the cross genders,
00:59:47.97\00:59:50.72
to the homosexual and
gay issues and so forth,
00:59:50.75\00:59:53.53
we have a confused world
00:59:53.56\00:59:54.60
but I don't think
that means we have to relax
00:59:54.63\00:59:57.31
and because of
political pressure,
00:59:57.34\00:59:59.75
we can't openly
talk about the issues
00:59:59.78\01:00:01.76
that's facing our
war in the church.
01:00:01.79\01:00:03.80
One thing that's
frustrating me right now is
01:00:03.83\01:00:06.05
how everybody has to
be so politically correct
01:00:06.08\01:00:08.14
as to not to offend gay people.
01:00:08.17\01:00:10.03
You know, well, I
don't want to offend anybody
01:00:10.06\01:00:12.28
but if someone asks me the truth
01:00:12.31\01:00:14.22
about what God's
plan is for their life,
01:00:14.25\01:00:15.82
I'm gonna tell you the truth.
01:00:15.85\01:00:17.22
I'm not intending to offend.
01:00:17.25\01:00:19.00
I'm gonna love everybody
but we have some issues
01:00:19.03\01:00:21.90
and I praise God that
01:00:21.93\01:00:23.09
through spiritual
guidance and direction,
01:00:23.12\01:00:25.24
I see former
homosexuals and former gay folk
01:00:25.27\01:00:28.46
come to Jesus Christ
and rebuke that lifestyle
01:00:28.49\01:00:30.91
all the time.
01:00:30.94\01:00:31.97
Amen.
01:00:32.00\01:00:33.03
And we have to
believe that and claim that.
01:00:33.06\01:00:35.09
Let me just touch on one
thing that is really crucial
01:00:35.12\01:00:37.01
when it comes down to self-abuse
01:00:37.04\01:00:39.05
in terms of the
whole sexuality issue
01:00:39.08\01:00:40.57
because we got
to come to the point
01:00:40.60\01:00:42.30
where the church
feels comfortable
01:00:42.33\01:00:43.93
talking about sexuality.
01:00:43.96\01:00:45.66
It's not doing the nasty.
01:00:45.69\01:00:47.73
We got to talk about this
and this is something that
01:00:47.76\01:00:49.40
God gave for our good to
the marriage institution.
01:00:49.43\01:00:53.20
We got to get--
Between a man and a woman
01:00:53.23\01:00:55.61
we got to get back
to that discussion.
01:00:55.64\01:00:57.63
When I have to hear
a young man says to me,
01:00:57.66\01:00:59.39
"Pastor, is it okay
for me to masturbate?"
01:00:59.42\01:01:01.96
And he is looking
at me with sincerity,
01:01:01.99\01:01:03.66
he really wants to know
01:01:03.69\01:01:04.73
because the
society has taught him,
01:01:04.76\01:01:06.02
"If it feels good, just do it."
01:01:06.05\01:01:07.85
There are some
young people who feel that
01:01:07.88\01:01:09.17
it's less of a sin to do that
01:01:09.20\01:01:11.13
rather than to
actually engage with someone.
01:01:11.16\01:01:13.15
We've got to
address that honestly.
01:01:13.18\01:01:14.98
And here's what I
shared with someone,
01:01:15.01\01:01:16.40
"We were created
in the image of God,
01:01:16.43\01:01:18.27
God made no
mistake when He created us.
01:01:18.30\01:01:20.68
He knew what He was doing
He said, 'It was very good.'
01:01:20.71\01:01:23.42
The moment you enter in--"
01:01:23.45\01:01:24.83
and I'm just going
through the core of it,
01:01:24.86\01:01:26.40
we don't have time
for workshop this morning,
01:01:26.43\01:01:28.75
"but when you engage
in that kind of activity,
01:01:28.78\01:01:31.69
you are engaging
in the counterfeit.
01:01:31.72\01:01:34.66
You are engaging in
that which is superficial
01:01:34.69\01:01:37.44
and anytime we go down the road
of counterfeit and superficial,
01:01:37.47\01:01:40.71
you are
practicing what is not real.
01:01:40.74\01:01:43.22
So what happens is
01:01:43.25\01:01:44.30
after a lifetime of
doing that as a teenager,
01:01:44.33\01:01:47.57
when it's time
for you to get married
01:01:47.60\01:01:49.09
you have no idea
01:01:49.12\01:01:50.34
what the marriage
experience is gonna be.
01:01:50.37\01:01:52.43
And we have
individuals not getting married
01:01:52.46\01:01:54.29
and they're saying
there is nothing here.
01:01:54.32\01:01:55.59
Why?
01:01:55.62\01:01:56.66
Because you have
lived the counterfeit.
01:01:56.69\01:01:58.96
You have lived the superficial.
01:01:58.99\01:02:01.47
Get back to what God says.
01:02:01.50\01:02:02.81
He made no mistake
when he made man and a woman
01:02:02.84\01:02:05.88
and in a marriage institution,
01:02:05.91\01:02:07.18
we come together and be sexual,"
01:02:07.21\01:02:09.54
but what happens
is we as a church
01:02:09.57\01:02:11.24
have to become comfortable
with at least talking about it
01:02:11.27\01:02:14.10
and giving guidance
and counseling to children
01:02:14.13\01:02:17.71
and by the way, please do
not excuse little children
01:02:17.74\01:02:21.06
when it's time
for the discussion.
01:02:21.09\01:02:23.52
Please do not ask
them to leave the room
01:02:23.55\01:02:25.29
as if this is
virgin for their ears
01:02:25.32\01:02:27.68
and the idea of being a virgin
is not a foreign word anymore.
01:02:27.71\01:02:32.22
Live for God, ask
God to sustain you.
01:02:32.25\01:02:34.52
I want to just share
with you one scripture
01:02:34.55\01:02:36.41
that is my
foundation because often times,
01:02:36.44\01:02:38.66
young people ask
me, "Well, Pastor,
01:02:38.69\01:02:40.03
as a pastor how do
you-- are you ever tempted?"
01:02:40.06\01:02:42.65
Of course, I'm a human
being and one thing I don't do,
01:02:42.68\01:02:46.24
don't ever trust yourself
01:02:46.27\01:02:47.54
because you feel
you're spiritual, you're holy.
01:02:47.57\01:02:49.74
That's dangerous round.
01:02:49.77\01:02:51.42
Here's what I
read every single day,
01:02:51.45\01:02:53.51
James 4 beginning with verse
7, "Submit yourself to God.
01:02:53.54\01:02:58.11
Resist the devil and
he will flee from you.
01:02:58.14\01:03:00.80
Draw near to God and
He will draw near to you.
01:03:00.83\01:03:03.63
Cleanse your hands, you sinners;
01:03:03.66\01:03:05.05
and purify your
hearts, you double-minded."
01:03:05.08\01:03:07.85
I don't trust James Black.
01:03:07.88\01:03:09.52
I trust God.
01:03:09.55\01:03:10.84
Finally, I have to say this.
01:03:10.87\01:03:12.57
When it comes to
the initial question
01:03:12.60\01:03:14.92
of the person who
was abused, in the church
01:03:14.95\01:03:19.05
and I'm speaking as
a youth director now,
01:03:19.08\01:03:21.49
if you violate or
abuse a child you go to jail.
01:03:21.52\01:03:28.54
You go to jail.
01:03:28.57\01:03:30.07
We have a responsibility
to protect children.
01:03:30.10\01:03:33.51
I speak to too many
young adults and parents now
01:03:33.54\01:03:36.48
who were abused as children
by members of the church.
01:03:36.51\01:03:41.16
That has to stop
but just understand
01:03:41.19\01:03:44.05
that child abuse
is not legal anywhere,
01:03:44.08\01:03:47.57
it is illegal and if you
abuse a child and so forth
01:03:47.60\01:03:50.95
we don't call the church board,
01:03:50.98\01:03:52.27
I have to
report that as a crime.
01:03:52.30\01:03:55.26
Everyone is
innocent till proven guilty
01:03:55.29\01:03:57.03
but we have-- if we
do share responsibility
01:03:57.06\01:03:59.15
to protect children not just
01:03:59.18\01:04:00.64
in the
Seventh-Day Adventist Church,
01:04:00.67\01:04:01.76
but throughout the world.
01:04:01.79\01:04:02.90
Amen. Thank you.
01:04:02.93\01:04:07.01
Elder Black, I just
wanted to thank you,
01:04:07.04\01:04:08.80
I've had young people
texting from the audience
01:04:08.83\01:04:10.63
thanking you for your
response to that question,
01:04:10.66\01:04:12.95
I appreciate it.
01:04:12.98\01:04:14.84
Yeah, thank you so much.
01:04:14.87\01:04:16.09
When we go to the website,
Adventist Church website,
01:04:16.12\01:04:19.91
a young person,
01:04:19.94\01:04:21.44
I guess what I'm wondering
is the statistics are alarming,
01:04:21.47\01:04:25.71
you know, I'll read them again.
01:04:25.74\01:04:26.93
"One in three
women and 70% of men,
01:04:26.96\01:04:30.46
18-34 struggle
with pornography."
01:04:30.49\01:04:33.62
That means that's the crowd
here a lot of them are 18-34
01:04:33.65\01:04:38.16
and there's a good
mixture of men and women.
01:04:38.19\01:04:40.15
And so I think that
it's clear to a lot of people
01:04:40.18\01:04:44.98
what the Bible says
about sexuality and so forth.
01:04:45.01\01:04:48.79
I guess the question
was more regarding people
01:04:48.82\01:04:50.97
who are
struggling with these things.
01:04:51.00\01:04:52.98
What is the Seventh-Day
Adventist Church doing
01:04:53.01\01:04:54.61
to assist them
in these situations?
01:04:54.64\01:04:57.27
So we go to
Adventist Church website
01:04:57.30\01:04:59.74
and it's very,
very easy to find out
01:04:59.77\01:05:03.32
what's the latest news
regarding certain items.
01:05:03.35\01:05:07.07
It's easy to find out
how the church is divided
01:05:07.10\01:05:09.29
into 13 divisions and so forth.
01:05:09.32\01:05:11.43
Now if a young
person goes to that,
01:05:11.46\01:05:13.01
are they finding any
support for what happens
01:05:13.04\01:05:15.66
if I am one of the
70% of the young people,
01:05:15.69\01:05:18.24
18-34 that
struggle with pornography?
01:05:18.27\01:05:21.47
What can I do?
01:05:21.50\01:05:22.53
Is there any
resource Adventist resource
01:05:22.56\01:05:25.10
that supports
them that helps them
01:05:25.13\01:05:27.27
not understand
whether it's right or wrong
01:05:27.30\01:05:29.26
but how to over come?
01:05:29.29\01:05:31.57
If I may just
speak very directly
01:05:31.60\01:05:33.25
into direct response.
01:05:33.28\01:05:34.42
Look at the January
9, Adventist review,
01:05:34.45\01:05:36.88
an article by Wayne
Blakely, "Ministry, Not Magic"
01:05:36.91\01:05:40.51
addressing the
issue of how to deal
01:05:40.54\01:05:43.26
with the
phenomenon of homosexuality
01:05:43.29\01:05:45.38
inthe life of the church
01:05:45.41\01:05:46.64
and to being very clear
about the biblical response
01:05:46.67\01:05:49.43
we have to be
both kindly and clear
01:05:49.46\01:05:52.40
in our holding to
the biblical standard.
01:05:52.43\01:05:54.89
There's a resource
you'll find it on line
01:05:54.92\01:05:57.11
as of January the 9th
01:05:57.14\01:05:58.52
and you'll find it in
print on that day too.
01:05:58.55\01:06:00.42
The church is actively
01:06:00.45\01:06:01.70
beginning to move into this area
01:06:01.73\01:06:03.65
providing resources
speaking more directly.
01:06:03.68\01:06:06.71
James, you're
absolutely correct.
01:06:06.74\01:06:08.16
We've got to do a better job.
01:06:08.19\01:06:09.88
But we've got our resources
01:06:09.91\01:06:12.40
aligning toward beginning
to create real substantive help
01:06:12.43\01:06:16.32
for people who are
wrestling with questions.
01:06:16.35\01:06:18.78
There are many
resources that are available
01:06:18.81\01:06:21.10
from Family
Ministries department,
01:06:21.13\01:06:24.00
both the division and
the general conference
01:06:24.03\01:06:27.68
and other levels as well.
01:06:27.71\01:06:30.13
The youth ministries
department of course,
01:06:30.16\01:06:32.73
women's ministries,
01:06:32.76\01:06:33.99
there's a lot
of good information
01:06:34.02\01:06:36.05
that will help people.
01:06:36.08\01:06:37.51
To those who have been abused,
01:06:37.54\01:06:40.30
I would echo the view
points that have been stated
01:06:40.33\01:06:44.49
that there is real hope
01:06:44.52\01:06:46.18
and the hope is not just
in trying to pull yourself up
01:06:46.21\01:06:50.00
by your own bootstraps
01:06:50.03\01:06:51.45
but it is in focusing
and centering your thoughts
01:06:51.48\01:06:55.97
and
understanding in Jesus Christ
01:06:56.00\01:06:58.23
and in being born
again, there is hope.
01:06:58.26\01:07:01.59
Every morning, there
is new hope in Christ.
01:07:01.62\01:07:05.18
And I appreciate
what Pastor Black has said
01:07:05.21\01:07:09.64
regarding the
church and its intolerance
01:07:09.67\01:07:15.43
to the kind of
abuse for children
01:07:15.46\01:07:18.93
but abuse for anyone
whether it is an older person
01:07:18.96\01:07:23.21
or whether it is a
young lady at an academy
01:07:23.24\01:07:27.74
or young men or whatever it is.
01:07:27.77\01:07:31.01
The church
institutions and organizations
01:07:31.04\01:07:33.98
must be very vigilant
01:07:34.01\01:07:36.82
in holding the
Christ-like standard high
01:07:36.85\01:07:40.37
and for eliminating
the tendency of people
01:07:40.40\01:07:45.26
to simply put things
under the rug and move on.
01:07:45.29\01:07:48.61
We must hold people accountable
01:07:48.64\01:07:51.77
and, you know, in
terms of pornography
01:07:51.80\01:07:54.65
and everything
that's hitting people today,
01:07:54.68\01:07:57.34
our best answer is
simply to focus on those things
01:07:57.37\01:08:01.58
which are real and positive.
01:08:01.61\01:08:04.05
and understanding
01:08:04.08\01:08:09.05
how Christ can
give us the victory.
01:08:09.08\01:08:11.28
That's what the
Christian life is all about.
01:08:11.31\01:08:13.75
There may be some young
person here thinking, you know,
01:08:13.78\01:08:16.07
"I have really been struggling
with this temptation or that
01:08:16.10\01:08:19.34
and I've fallen again and again
01:08:19.37\01:08:22.13
and I feel kind of
disappointed in myself,"
01:08:22.16\01:08:25.09
there may be
somebody watching on 3ABN
01:08:25.12\01:08:27.15
that feels that
way and the question is
01:08:27.18\01:08:29.73
"Where is their hope
01:08:29.76\01:08:31.54
when you know you have
fallen more than once?"
01:08:31.57\01:08:35.40
And there's a
marvelous passage in scripture,
01:08:35.43\01:08:38.39
in Joel 2:25,
01:08:38.42\01:08:42.61
where the Prophet
Joel says, speaking of God,
01:08:42.64\01:08:47.45
"I will restore
to you the years."
01:08:47.48\01:08:50.76
Here is the
incredible good news,
01:08:50.79\01:08:53.30
it's never too late to
begin making positive decisions,
01:08:53.33\01:08:58.31
it's never too late.
01:08:58.34\01:09:00.07
God's forgiveness is
there, God's power is there,
01:09:00.10\01:09:04.06
God will restore the
years not by letting you go back
01:09:04.09\01:09:08.12
and living the
last five over again
01:09:08.15\01:09:10.28
but by giving you
new years in the future
01:09:10.31\01:09:12.96
so the good news is,
01:09:12.99\01:09:14.62
God wants to do for
you exceedingly, abundantly
01:09:14.65\01:09:18.17
what you could ask or
think if you failed in the past,
01:09:18.20\01:09:21.44
He'll restore those years
01:09:21.47\01:09:23.17
and He has a
marvelous future for you.
01:09:23.20\01:09:25.38
Amen.
01:09:25.41\01:09:28.21
Just as another resource,
adventistyouthministries.org
01:09:28.24\01:09:32.86
we have a listing of resources
that are very supportive there,
01:09:32.89\01:09:36.79
also I think we
need to remember that
01:09:36.82\01:09:38.43
even though as a church we have
a responsibility to resource
01:09:38.46\01:09:43.29
and sometimes we may not
have the most effective recourse
01:09:43.32\01:09:47.29
and partnering with
other Christian organizations
01:09:47.32\01:09:49.48
who are Bible based,
01:09:49.51\01:09:51.09
there's a lot of
great resources out there,
01:09:51.12\01:09:52.91
too, to aid the
church and so let's not,
01:09:52.94\01:09:55.51
you know, be fearful of that.
01:09:55.54\01:09:57.69
But I also want to say that
01:09:57.72\01:09:58.75
when it comes to the
question of pornography,
01:09:58.78\01:10:00.64
one thing that
really concerns me is that
01:10:00.67\01:10:03.40
how close we are to
pornography in our homes?
01:10:03.43\01:10:08.39
If you have cable television
and your children have access
01:10:08.42\01:10:11.06
to those kinds of
things whether its magazines
01:10:11.09\01:10:13.97
or books, the movies we
watch, people going to Redbox
01:10:14.00\01:10:16.60
and if something is rated R,
01:10:16.63\01:10:19.08
I mean no one has to
talk about what rated R is.
01:10:19.11\01:10:22.18
You know, and what happens is
01:10:22.21\01:10:23.46
we don't look at a
good movie as drama
01:10:23.49\01:10:26.00
because we're
looking at the overall drama
01:10:26.03\01:10:27.91
as pornography
01:10:27.94\01:10:29.05
and many times these
things start in small steps
01:10:29.08\01:10:31.87
and before you know
it, you start liking it
01:10:31.90\01:10:34.05
and before you know
it, that's all you do.
01:10:34.08\01:10:35.87
Let us just be very careful
01:10:35.90\01:10:37.16
in terms of what we
feed our minds as says
01:10:37.19\01:10:39.84
"Let us be very careful in God
01:10:39.87\01:10:41.16
we are the avenues of ourselves.
01:10:41.19\01:10:43.34
Well, thank you very much.
01:10:43.37\01:10:44.40
We appreciate your
honesty and your vulnerability.
01:10:44.43\01:10:47.69
We didn't share the
questions with you ahead of time
01:10:47.72\01:10:49.82
and we appreciate you
willing to answer them
01:10:49.85\01:10:51.95
and I think out of respect
01:10:51.98\01:10:54.89
we'll give the last
question to Elder Wilson
01:10:54.92\01:10:56.85
and it'd be very
fitting for a question
01:10:56.88\01:10:58.96
to come for a
president to a president
01:10:58.99\01:11:01.59
but I'm on my way out.
01:11:01.62\01:11:03.26
And so I'm gonna
turn the time over
01:11:03.29\01:11:05.28
to last question to be
asked by our President, Natasha.
01:11:05.31\01:11:08.46
So Elder Wilson, you
know, I really appreciate
01:11:08.49\01:11:12.51
the atmosphere
that you've created,
01:11:12.54\01:11:15.00
the willingness to come,
01:11:15.03\01:11:16.19
all of you, and
speak with young people.
01:11:16.22\01:11:18.69
I think there can sometimes
tend to be a perception
01:11:18.72\01:11:21.03
of a difference between
the way young people think
01:11:21.06\01:11:23.35
and the very black and white
01:11:23.38\01:11:25.06
and the way our
church leadership thinks,
01:11:25.09\01:11:26.61
so what is your, what
is your primary advice
01:11:26.64\01:11:30.01
to invested young Adventists
01:11:30.04\01:11:32.02
as their interacting with their
church and their leadership?
01:11:32.05\01:11:35.77
I hope that
every young person here
01:11:35.80\01:11:38.20
and those
watching on television,
01:11:38.23\01:11:39.98
those who might hear in some way
01:11:40.01\01:11:42.78
that you are a vital part
01:11:42.81\01:11:45.62
of the worldwide
Seventh-Day Adventist Church
01:11:45.65\01:11:48.38
and never give
up on this church.
01:11:48.41\01:11:51.36
One of the things that
is very heavy on our hearts
01:11:51.39\01:11:54.10
is the outflow of
young people from the church
01:11:54.13\01:12:01.31
and this is a perennial problem
01:12:01.34\01:12:03.56
but it is a real
and a critical one
01:12:03.59\01:12:05.86
and the church is trying
to do something about that
01:12:05.89\01:12:08.71
and about people
leaving the church in general.
01:12:08.74\01:12:12.82
But I would just want to
appeal to every young person,
01:12:12.85\01:12:15.60
get involved in
your local church,
01:12:15.63\01:12:18.39
be a part of what's happening,
don't just throw your hands up
01:12:18.42\01:12:21.57
and stay in a corner and
to those of you who are older
01:12:21.60\01:12:24.59
get to know the
names of young people
01:12:24.62\01:12:26.60
include them in activities,
ask them how they're doing.
01:12:26.63\01:12:30.69
Young people get involved
in service to the church
01:12:30.72\01:12:33.75
and regardless of
what you may face,
01:12:33.78\01:12:36.22
and remember this beautiful gem
01:12:36.25\01:12:38.33
from Acts of the
apostles in the first chapter,
01:12:38.36\01:12:42.50
"Enfeebled and
defective as it may appear,
01:12:42.53\01:12:45.92
the church is the one
object upon which God bestows
01:12:45.95\01:12:49.33
in a special sense
His supreme regard.
01:12:49.36\01:12:52.31
It is the theater of His
grace, in which He delights
01:12:52.34\01:12:56.41
to reveal His power
to transform hearts."
01:12:56.44\01:12:59.49