Participants: Don Mackintosh (Host)
Series Code: 13ASIC
Program Code: 13ASIC000012
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00:19 If there is one thing that Seventh-day Adventists believe.
00:24 If there is one thing 00:26 that is even encapsulated in their name, 00:29 it is concerning the advent, the appearing, 00:34 the second coming of Jesus. 00:38 And today, we're gonna be discussing that topic 00:42 which I think is near and dear to each of our hearts. 00:46 And years ago numerous times 00:52 from the prophetic pen and voice of Ellen White, 00:56 the church was told that Christ could come 00:59 and Christ could come and Christ could come. 01:02 So today, what we want to do is talk about that second coming 01:06 and we're gonna really look at three basic categories 01:10 and we're gonna look at this in three basic sections. 01:15 And in between we're gonna have some lovely music 01:18 that focuses on the second coming. 01:22 The first section, we're gonna be talking about 01:24 why are we still talking about the second coming? 01:29 Why has Jesus not yet come? 01:31 That's section number one. 01:33 Then we're gonna look at another section. 01:37 What in the world indicates that God is on the move 01:43 that Jesus is about to return. 01:45 We'll look at some signs in the world, 01:47 some signs in the church. 01:49 And then our final section, we'll be looking at 01:53 what can Seventh-day Adventists church members, 01:58 ASI members do to hasten Christ coming. 02:01 What kind of things can we do? 02:03 Now in facilitating this, 02:04 I want to thank all of you for or many of you-- 02:08 it almost seems like all of you the number of questions 02:10 that came in for sending in your questions. 02:14 There are more questions than we'll be able to answer. 02:16 But what I did as the moderator was trying collate those 02:20 and then got together with our Seventh-day Adventists up here, 02:24 there are seven of us. 02:26 And we discussed the questions 02:28 and then we, we kind of grouped them in categories. 02:32 So you might have like an amalgamation of your questions, 02:35 it might be, that's my question, 02:37 but it maybe smashed together 02:38 with three others that were similar. 02:40 So if it sounds like your question, 02:42 don't get up and start screaming. 02:44 But it probably is a similar type of question to the others. 02:48 Well, let's just bow our heads before we begin this discussion 02:52 and meet our guests and then begin to talk. 02:54 Father in heaven, 02:58 Lord, the very fact that we are here discussing this, 03:03 as has been mentioned already today in the divine service 03:08 and even before is somewhat of a rebuke to us. 03:15 And we do long to see You come. 03:20 And we-- while we enjoy ASI 03:24 as it is a piece of heaven, 03:28 we would rather be having ASI in heaven. 03:33 So bless us today as we talk and as we discuss 03:36 and may Your Holy Spirit do something for us individually. 03:42 May this be something very personal for each of us 03:46 that we could even have a recommitment renewal 03:50 and revival during this time, in Christ name we pray. 03:54 Amen. 03:55 Our panelists are Elder Finley, 04:00 assistant to the president of the General Conference 04:02 and for many years, an evangelist. 04:05 I first met him when I was 9 years old, 04:07 but he doesn't probably remember that. 04:10 And then Andi Hunsaker, 04:12 she is a physician at Harvard in the women's hospital 04:18 where she is in charge of neuro-imaging department 04:22 and so she's gonna take an inside look at things 04:25 with us today. 04:27 And then we have our General Conference President, 04:30 Elder Tedd Wilson, 04:32 who has served the church for years, 04:35 I still remember his father 04:36 coming to my home as a little boy 04:38 and he always remembered my name, 04:40 no matter what I looked like or what I had been into. 04:44 And then Elder C.D Brooks, 04:46 wasn't it a blessing to have him with us today 04:49 for the divine service. 04:51 And former field secretary of the General Conference 04:54 still has an office there, if you want to get mail to him, 04:56 just send it to the General Conference, 04:58 C.D Brooks. 05:00 And we're glad he is with us. 05:02 Then, Elder Reid, who is now serving with WAR, 05:05 World Radio, Adventist World Radio 05:07 in development for many years 05:10 was dealing with financial issues, 05:12 has written a number of books on the end time as well. 05:15 We're glad that he is with us. 05:17 And then Attorney, Lewis Walton, 05:18 a tax attorney in LA I believe. 05:23 And for many years has also served the church 05:28 on the camp meeting circuit and through writing books 05:30 that have provoked a lot of thought on this subject. 05:34 Well, let's get started, I want to lay some 05:36 ground rules for my panelists 05:38 and that is we want short questions 05:42 that are also complete. 05:45 I mean, short answers that are also complete. 05:48 I know that's kind of almost impossible. 05:50 But as succinct as you can 05:52 because we want to cover more material. 05:55 And then also the second thing is 05:57 I'm gonna be trying to give each one of you 06:00 a time to respond to questions. 06:02 So I may call out one of you individually 06:07 to answer a question. 06:09 And then if you don't really feel like 06:10 answering that question, 06:12 you can always pass that off to the others, okay? 06:15 All right, so let's begin. 06:18 Why are we still talking about the second coming? 06:23 Why have we not yet seen Jesus come? 06:28 That's our first section. 06:30 And there was a question that came in under that section 06:32 that I kind of put there and I want to address this to 06:37 the doctor from Harvard. 06:41 We're told in the Bible in the Spirit of Prophecy, 06:43 this is a question that came in. 06:46 That the gospel was given to the whole world 06:48 by the early church in the first generation 06:50 after Christ, says that in Colossians in number of versus. 06:53 And then Ellen White agrees the truth of the gospel 06:56 which has come to you as it is also in all the world, 07:00 and was preached to every creature. 07:03 Typically, we're told that finishing the work 07:07 is to make sure that everyone hears the gospel message 07:10 and then Jesus will come. 07:12 But if that already happened, 07:13 if every creature already heard it 07:16 2000 years ago, what was lacking? 07:19 Must there be more finishing the work? 07:22 Is there something more than just message propagation 07:24 and distribution? 07:27 I think I know why Don has asked me that question, 07:31 because I know exactly where that question came from. 07:34 I want to thank my great husband 07:36 for that question. 07:41 But there is a really nice quote that I like. 07:45 Certainly, the gospel, the Bible does say that 07:50 in several passages and Ellen White agrees. 07:54 But I think that there are certain things that 07:56 the Lord is waiting for. 07:59 And I just want to read a quote from Ellen White 08:05 that says that Christ is waiting for His portrait 08:11 to be painted in each of His disciples. 08:14 And I think that to the extent that 08:15 that portrait is not painted, He is waiting. 08:20 And so I think that message propagation is one thing 08:23 but He wants to actually see Himself represented in us. 08:28 We're told in Revelation 18:1 08:31 that the earth will be lightened with His glory. 08:34 And I don't think that He wants to come back 08:37 to a dimly lit world. 08:40 Anyone else want to add to that? 08:42 Following up. 08:44 Okay, Elder Reid. 08:47 It's interesting that we all talk about Matthew 24:14 08:52 when the gospel's preached in all the world. 08:53 Well, as you mentioned it was preached 08:55 in all the world in the first century. 08:58 But Jesus told us two things to look for. 09:00 One is conditions and the other one is 09:02 the great prophetic timeline 09:04 and when commenting on 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, 09:07 Ellen White said you know, 09:09 the coming will not take place till the falling away 09:12 and the men of sin revealed and so on. 09:14 She says that that's the 1,260 year period, 09:18 ended in 1798 09:20 and she said the second coming of Christ 09:22 could not take place before that time. 09:24 That's Great Controversy 356, and it's interesting that 09:28 from that time on we've had the great awakening 09:30 in the advent movement and so on, 09:32 which makes it very, very relevant 09:34 and prophetic in fulfillment. 09:36 Elder Finley? 09:38 The unique contribution that Seventh-day Adventists 09:41 have to make to Christendom is an understanding of the Bible 09:43 through the Great Controversy theme. 09:45 And as I look at the context of the Great Controversy, 09:48 Satan challenged the government of God. 09:51 Satan said that God was of indicative judge, 09:53 He was a wrathful tyrant, that He was self centered. 09:57 In the entire panorama of the plan of salvation 09:59 in the coming of Christ to the earth the first time 10:02 was to reveal the love and grace of God. 10:07 And we know what God is like by seeing 10:09 what Jesus was like. 10:11 In the context of that Great Controversy, 10:14 although Jesus demonstrated clearly 10:16 what the father was like. 10:17 The Bible says in Mark Chapter 4, 10:20 that the harvest will be fully ripe. 10:23 So God will reveal through His people 10:26 to a waiting world, to the watching universe, 10:29 God's marvelous love. 10:31 And why hasn't Jesus come? 10:35 It is not simply that the gospel 10:37 has not been preached to the world. 10:40 It is that all of heaven and the entire universe 10:44 are waiting in a sin filled world for God to-- 10:48 God's love to be revealed through His people 10:51 as a contrast to selfishness. 10:54 So in the context of the Great Controversy, 10:57 God has this longing desire 10:59 to reveal Himself through His people. 11:03 Let's move on to the next question. 11:05 And I want to direct this to, Attorney Walton, 11:09 because you and I were talking about this as well 11:12 and, there were a number of questions that came in 11:15 that were giving various statements 11:19 from the pen of inspiration concerning various times 11:23 where Ellen White said, He's coming. 11:25 In fact some of the statements said. 11:27 Some of the people even standing here 11:29 will be food for worms and I've always noticed that 11:32 when I was a young man, I said, man that's intense. 11:35 And so all of these different statements, 11:38 can you shed any light on those statements for us? 11:42 Let me quickly speak to the issue of food for worms 11:45 if my mike is on. 11:48 And that is, that was in the context 11:50 of the great revival that took place 11:51 in the church in the 1850's when everybody, 11:55 nearly everybody expected the Lord would come 11:57 as a result of that. 11:58 It was conditional prophecy. 12:00 Ellen white said her angel said that. 12:03 She didn't say she got that from the Lord. 12:06 There was a period of time of about 34 months 12:09 in which after that period was over 12:11 Ellen White said the Lord has given the Laodicean message, 12:15 time to do its work, revive and reform Adventism 12:18 and bring on the second coming. 12:20 The second coming could have happened 12:21 before the Civil War, according to her. 12:25 Now the question here-- 12:27 First of all, let me, let me give the, 12:29 paint the silver side of the cloud first. 12:31 I am convinced that if the spirit of ASI 12:36 were shared by every member of this church, 12:38 we would not be here this morning. 12:41 We would be now looking back on the sea of glass, 12:44 the welcome home supper, 12:45 we would be hard at work in the cosmos. 12:48 The spirit in this group 12:51 if it infected the entire church 12:55 with this delightful excitement and commitment 12:59 could finish the work of God. 13:01 There is enough horsepower in this room to get it done 13:04 and one of our mission fields is inside the church 13:06 as well as outside the church. 13:09 To the issue though of, why are we still here? 13:12 Ellen White in 1883 said, 13:15 Christ could have come ere this. 13:18 1890, she said it all again, had the purpose of God 13:21 been carried out by His people, 13:23 Christ would ere this have come. 13:26 8 more years went by, now she is Australia. 13:30 She says if God's people had the love of Christ in the heart 13:34 a thousand doors of usefulness would be open, 13:37 Christ would have come to the earth ere this. 13:40 Now where am I going with this? 13:43 3 years later in 1901, she repeats that same statement 13:48 but now something ominous is creeping into her language, 13:52 when she also adds, 13:54 we may have to remain here in this world 13:56 because of insubordination many more years. 13:59 Then goes on to say, but for Christ sake 14:01 don't blame heaven for that. 14:03 It's not heaven's plan. 14:06 And the question that I want to pose to us 14:08 and answer to that issue is how could we be insubordinate? 14:14 And might I suggest a good way to do it 14:16 would be to lose sight of our mission. 14:18 What are our operational orders in this world? 14:21 Why are we here? 14:22 Volume 9 says the most solemn truth 14:25 ever entrusted to mortals have been given to us 14:28 to proclaim to the world. 14:31 That's why we're here. 14:32 How could we be insubordinate? 14:35 We could preach that message without acting 14:38 as if we really believe it. 14:41 How could we do that? 14:43 One way would be to let Hollywood 14:45 into the heart of our homes. 14:48 Through the kind of entertainment 14:50 that drifts us away from the commitment 14:53 we still say we believe. 14:56 May I respectfully suggest that is the single best method 15:00 we could use to lose our youth? 15:03 Which will then lead us to 15:05 a second level of insubordination 15:07 and that would be disrespect our youth 15:09 and treat them as if they are an inconvenient age group 15:14 whose only real function is to be entertained. 15:18 Now ladies and gentlemen, we have seen exhibit A 15:21 here at ASI that our young people 15:23 can do more than that. 15:27 May I also suggest that that means 15:30 we should have a very acute interest 15:32 in the quality of our educational institutions? 15:36 Do our kids come back from their schooling 15:40 solid in the word of God, convinced 15:42 and more able than ever to explain 15:45 and believe our doctrines including even stuff like 15:49 how we got to be on this earth? 15:52 So number two, we could be insubordinate by drifting away, 15:57 allowing a world that is not centered 16:02 on the second coming to influence. 16:05 Finally, number three, we could be insubordinate 16:09 by forgetting the vital fact 16:11 that this church is a world church 16:14 and we need to act like a world church. 16:17 And this church every division of it, 16:20 every conference, every union 16:22 should speak with one voice 16:26 and follow a common plan toward home. 16:30 Thank you for that short, 16:35 succinct and definitely complete answer. 16:38 Yeah, well, he said attorney when he asked the question. 16:41 You asked for it. 16:46 I didn't want you to sue me for my taxes. 16:50 Okay, I have a-- 16:52 I have a question for Elder Brooks. 16:55 Okay, I know you all want to add on to that 16:57 and maybe I should defer to the wisdom 16:59 but let me see if you can work with this question 17:03 directed to Elder Brooks. 17:05 The disciples were at one accord in the upper room 17:07 before the Holy Spirit was poured out. 17:10 The General Conference is currently calling for prayer, 17:13 for revival, for reformation. 17:15 But there are many factions within Adventism. 17:19 What efforts have been made in reaching out 17:22 to reconcile with them? 17:25 Is there a way we can have the Lord come 17:28 when we are so disunified, Elder Brooks? 17:32 I have a perspective that's probably unique with me. 17:38 The question came in about 1844 17:41 and the great disappointment I can understand it. 17:44 Because in 1844, my people were slaves 17:48 under the most inhumane system ever recorded about in history. 17:54 I had no idea, when I learnt these things 17:57 that people thought Christ should have come. 17:59 He wasn't coming and take anybody anywhere without us. 18:04 That's right. Amen. 18:12 That's one perspective. 18:16 Ellen White says there never was a time. 18:19 There never was a time when the truth 18:21 should not have been presented with a sense of urgency, 18:25 I almost got it right. 18:27 Paul and the apostles wrote about time. 18:30 They said, it's our time in their day. 18:33 And the Lord had to clear Paul's mind 18:35 by giving him visions of the-- 18:38 what he just mentioned 1,260 year period. 18:41 All of these things had to transpire. 18:43 So he had to project beyond that 18:45 and I really think it's best that we don't know 18:49 the day and the hour that God determined 18:52 and of course, that's enough to make it best. 18:54 We don't know the day or the hour. 18:56 But I know that Jesus is coming soon. 18:59 The signs that are fulfilling all around us, 19:03 speak to us in a way as never before. 19:06 I saw a meteorologist on television 19:09 following one of these capricious acts of nature 19:13 and he was called in right on camera, 19:16 that's the man who studied the science of meteorology. 19:19 That's the man who got his degree in it. 19:21 That's the man who does it professionally 19:24 and they ask him what's going on, 19:27 these unusual things? 19:30 And he looked blankly into the camera and said, 19:33 "I don't know." 19:36 And the truth is he doesn't know. 19:38 But we're seeing things now, 19:40 that we're not supposed to grab an idea 19:42 and run with it as though we have the last word. 19:45 I believe in the organization of the church. 19:47 I believe in leadership. 19:49 I believe that when men study something in these councils 19:52 and come out with recommendations, 19:54 they are the best that these men can produce. 19:57 And I support them and I'm willing to go along with that. 20:01 You're not going to find our leaders willfully 20:05 giving wrong advice. 20:08 The Lord should have come ere this. 20:10 But aren't we glad He didn't? 20:13 We have an opportunity of being with Christ 20:16 in the kingdom. 20:18 We couldn't have had that if He had come in 1888 20:22 and other suggested times. 20:26 Thank you, Elder. 20:27 You-- You answered a lot of my other questions too here, 20:29 so now I don't know what to do. 20:31 But let me come back to the one that I think that you still, 20:33 we still could deal with and I'm gonna open up 20:35 to the rest of the panel and that is 20:38 if, you know, we saw unity in the upper room 20:41 and that brought the Holy Spirit 20:42 and we don't see unity now. 20:44 Can Jesus come without unity is the question? 20:48 And I think the doctor is gonna help 20:52 look in the inside of that. 20:54 Well, my favorite passages in scripture I think is John 17. 20:59 I always ask myself if I were gonna be executed 21:03 facing immediate execution what would I pray for? 21:08 And Jesus Christ prayed for unity. 21:10 But there is a text in John 17 that I want to look at. 21:14 John 17: 24 and then verse 26. 21:21 He continues-- First of all, He prays for himself, 21:23 then He prays for His disciples. 21:25 Then He prays for all believers 21:27 and He says, Father, this is verse 24, 21:30 "Father I desire that they also whom you gave me, 21:35 may be with me where I am. 21:37 That they may be behold my glory, 21:38 that's my character, 21:39 which you have given me for you love me 21:42 before the foundation of the world." 21:44 Often times I think we look at that 21:46 with me where I am as being in heaven. 21:50 But I think with him means I'm with you, 21:53 I'm on the same page. 21:55 So I think if Jesus Christ praying for unity among us 21:59 and not only that that we're on the same page 22:01 with His heart, then I think unity is huge. 22:05 Amen. Okay. 22:07 Elder Finley, one lifeline for you here. 22:13 Recently in my study of the Sabbath school, 22:16 for the Sabbath school lessons and the research 22:18 that I did in preparing for this series 22:20 on Revival and Reformation. 22:22 I reread the Book of Acts numerous times 22:25 asking myself the very question that was raised. 22:28 What are elements of unity in the Book of Acts? 22:31 Obviously, Peter's dispositional traits 22:34 were different than Thomas' dispositional traits 22:37 and they were different than John's dispositional traits. 22:40 So unity is not everybody having the same personality 22:43 or the same dispositional traits, 22:45 neither is it everybody eating the same 22:47 or dressing the same or liking the same foods. 22:50 Unity and uniformity are two very different things. 22:53 Uniformity has to do with an external, something external. 22:57 Unity has to do with something internal. 22:59 If you look at the Book of Acts, 23:01 there are four basic elements of unity. 23:05 Commitment to a common Christ. 23:07 In the Book of Acts, the disciples were sold out 23:11 for Jesus Christ. 23:12 They were totally committed to Jesus. 23:14 They were passionate about Jesus. 23:16 Second, they were committed to a common prophetic message. 23:20 Jesus was the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. 23:23 Doctrine played a major role in unifying them. 23:26 Thirdly, they were committed to a common mission. 23:29 They were passionate about reaching the world. 23:32 And fourthly, they were committed 23:34 to a structure of church governance. 23:37 You had the Jerusalem council. 23:39 You had a system of leadership. 23:42 Those elements bring unity, commitment to a common Christ, 23:46 commitment to a prophetic Adventist message, 23:49 commitment to a mission and commitment to a church 23:52 that God has divinely raised up at end time 23:55 to proclaim a message to reach the world. 23:57 Amen. Amen. 23:59 I want to get to a couple other questions here 24:01 and thank you for that, panelists. 24:05 I'm gonna direct this one to Elder Wilson. 24:08 What if anything Elder Wilson does Isaiah 58 24:12 have to do with the second coming? 24:17 I have a lot of other comments, 24:19 I'm gonna try and squeeze them in other times. 24:21 But 58 Isaiah, absolutely critical to the way 24:28 in which people are supposed to relate to others 24:32 showing Christ character and His ministry. 24:36 You know, when Christ went to the temple, 24:39 He read from Isaiah, He read from scripture 24:45 and it's recorded for us in Luke 4:18 and 19. 24:49 It is the way in which we relate 24:51 and this is one of the very major ways 24:54 in which we are hoping mission to the cities 24:57 is going to work, that people are going to church members 25:01 be able to show the character of Jesus 25:04 in a very powerful way as they reflect the fruit of the spirit 25:10 and Christ character. 25:12 So Isaiah 58 and an understanding 25:15 of how we relate to people and that in reality 25:18 our ministry is to affect others 25:21 is going to play an incredible part. 25:23 We use the term medical missionary work 25:25 which is comprehensive health ministry, 25:28 whatever term we would like to use 25:30 and we're told that it will be the last work 25:35 that we will be able to do. 25:37 When we will not be able to hold 25:39 public evangelistic meetings, 25:41 beautiful convocations like this, 25:43 we will be able to do medical ministry, 25:45 medical missionary work and it is the work of every member, 25:49 not just health professionals. 25:51 So I think the Lord is preparing His people now 25:54 for us to understand 25:55 how that can fit into mission to the cities 25:59 and many ways in which truly the second coming 26:03 can be preceded by a reflection of Christ character. 26:08 Amen. 26:10 Okay, another question and let's see 26:12 I have not directed one specifically to Elder Reid yet, 26:16 so let me direct this to him. 26:18 Could the reason be-- 26:21 this is a question that came in, 26:22 could there be-- the reason be that 26:24 for Christ not coming. 26:26 Could it be the same as why He did not return in 1844 26:29 and then again after 1888? 26:34 Is the reason that we have not seen Him come 26:37 is because He-- we have not responded to His 26:40 third angel's message in verity? 26:44 Well, that's a good question. 26:45 She says the third angel's message in verity 26:49 is justification by faith and I'm glad to say 26:52 and to observe that we're seeing more about that 26:55 in our church everyday. 26:57 More of our preachers are preaching about it. 26:59 More of our people are experiencing it. 27:01 And another interesting factor about this and-- 27:05 this is the work of the Holy Spirit 27:07 in our lives of course and the amazing thing about it 27:09 we accept God's justification for us. 27:12 But I found this interesting statement 27:13 when I was teaching stewardship. 27:15 And that is, one of the reason there is such a great dearth 27:19 of the Spirit of God, which is the transforming agent 27:22 when Ellen White talks about what happened to Nicodemus, 27:24 no one sees the hands that lifts the burden and so on, 27:27 when the Spirit of God comes. 27:28 One of the reasons is that we, she says 27:31 there's such a great dearth of the Spirit of God 27:34 is that so many are robbing God. 27:37 And I don't really expect that we could receive 27:40 the Spirit of God while we are robbing Him. 27:42 That's what I think about that particular topic. 27:45 And of course the Holy Spirit's role is to transform us 27:49 to do the finishing touches on our character 27:51 and give us the power to finish the work 27:53 and we all want that. 27:55 So I'm encouraging faithfulness. 27:58 Amen. 27:59 Another question that I want to just throw out to each of you, 28:02 you know, we hear a lot about-- and we even heard it 28:05 in answers from the panel today that 28:08 what needs to happen is that we need to perfectly 28:10 reflect the character of Christ. 28:12 And of course that's the statement. 28:13 It's not just something we're hearing from the panel. 28:16 Then-- but then some will say, 28:19 well, if you preach that too much, 28:22 people will talk about being perfect 28:24 and they will get into perfectionism 28:26 and there'll be a problem with that. 28:28 Then others talk about what we need to do is 28:30 point out the problems in the church 28:32 and show the sin and what not 28:34 and then if we said enough then he'll have to come 28:39 and step in with wrath. 28:40 And then others say, you know, what we really need to do is 28:44 create as many devices as possible 28:47 to get the message out as quickly as possible. 28:49 And we need to work on the mission of the church 28:52 and there is always this tension between these three. 28:56 Which one of them is right? 28:57 How should we relate to these seemingly conflicting views 29:04 concerning the second coming? 29:08 The second coming has to be rooted in your 29:10 own personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 29:13 Christ has to be central in everything that you do 29:17 and think about. 29:18 I don't-- I find it difficult for in my own understanding 29:23 how people cope without the hope of the second coming. 29:29 It's absolutely something that just animates me 29:33 and I'm just so excited about it. 29:35 But I think the sense of urgency in understanding 29:41 what time in which we're living is something 29:45 which has to be paramount as we try to recapture 29:49 an understanding of the Great Controversy theme 29:52 and how God is intending to use His people 29:55 at the very end of time. 29:56 And as I travel extensively all around the world, 29:59 I try to emphasize strongly 30:02 the second coming of Jesus Christ. 30:04 In fact, every sermon that we preach, somehow, 30:09 someway ought to have in of that element 30:12 of a sense of urgency of Jesus' second coming. 30:16 And I'm hoping that more and more people 30:18 will gain that understanding. 30:20 But, you know, this whole sense of urgency aspect 30:24 and how you fit that in with the mission 30:26 and how you live your life and all of that. 30:29 It's an age old problem, I mean 2 Peter 3 tells us 30:33 exactly that people are going to be scoffing, 30:36 pointing questions. 30:38 Where is His coming? 30:39 And then the Lord says, he is not slack 30:41 concerning His promise and then He says in verse 12, 30:45 "Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God." 30:49 So I think somehow we've to recapture 30:52 that we are Seventh-day Adventists. 30:56 Thank you. We need to go to a break. 30:57 How many of you want to listen to some music 30:59 about the second coming. 31:01 And let's hear that number now. 31:19 When the King returns to claim His own 31:27 And we see the Son of Man 31:33 When the Earth shakes like a rolling stone 31:39 Who shall be able to stand? 31:46 Think about it. 31:49 When all the islands disappear 31:55 And the sea turns to dry land 32:01 When all confidence gives way to fear 32:07 Who shall be able to stand? 32:13 Are your hands clean? 32:17 Is your heart pure? 32:20 Are you faithful to all His commands? 32:25 Are you one with Him? 32:28 Are you freed from sin? 32:31 Are you washed 32:33 In the blood of the Lamb? 32:39 At the trumpet sound 32:44 Will you be found 32:48 Ready and able to stand? 32:54 Who shall be able to stand? 33:02 Listen. 33:03 Who will endure His all consuming fire? 33:10 Only the righteous can 33:15 For righteousness is what our God requires 33:22 Who shall be able to stand? 33:28 Are your hands clean? 33:32 Is your heart pure? 33:36 Are you faithful to all His commands? 33:40 Are you one with Him? 33:43 Are you freed from sin? 33:46 Are you washed in the blood of the Lamb? 33:57 At the trumpet sound 34:02 Will you be found ready 34:07 And able to stand? 34:12 Who shall be able to stand? 34:19 Will you be able 34:25 To stand? 34:40 Who shall be able 34:46 To stand? 34:52 God bless you. 34:53 Who shall be able to stand? 34:56 Thank you so much for that wonderful number. 35:01 If you just joined us, we are talking about 35:03 the second coming. 35:04 Why are we still talking about it 35:05 as the Adventist church? 35:07 And why is there a delay? 35:09 In our last exchange we heard a lot of fascinating 35:13 and very helpful things. 35:15 And the last question I'd asked 35:18 and our General Conference president 35:20 had responded was to this tension between, 35:24 you know, character and being like Jesus, 35:28 and some people would say if we focus on that 35:31 can lead to self doubt and perfectionism. 35:35 And then also this idea of the sin, 35:38 pointing out the sin, 35:40 the idea that the wrath of God would be poured out 35:43 and He would step in as He did in the flood 35:45 or when the Amorites, their sin reached a certain level 35:51 and then also missionary work, 35:52 may be focusing on missionary work 35:55 and just before we came back, Mark Finley nudged me 35:58 and said I really want to say something about that, 36:01 so go ahead. 36:03 Thank you for letting the elderly spokesman 36:07 with Brother Brooks, the two of us, you know, 36:09 we've been around for few years. 36:13 The promises of the Bible focused on who God is 36:18 not on who we are. 36:21 So when you look at three promises, 36:24 simple promises, Hebrews 12:2 36:28 "Looking unto the Jesus 36:30 the author and finisher of our faith." 36:34 Jesus began a good work in us and He'll finish it. 36:37 Philippians 1:6. 36:39 "Being confident of this very thing, 36:42 He Jesus that began a good work in you will finish it." 36:46 So righteousness by faith is not sinning by presumption. 36:53 Righteousness by faith, it grasps everything 36:56 that Christ has done for me on the cross, 36:59 everything that Jesus is doing for me 37:02 in heaven on sanctuary 37:04 and everything that He will do for me in the future. 37:09 That's why in 1 John 3:1-2 it says, 37:14 "Behold, what manner of love 37:17 the Father has bestowed upon us, 37:19 that we should be called the children of God." 37:22 Verse 2. 37:23 "Beloved, now are we the children of God." 37:27 When you and I come to Christ, 37:29 when we understand His grace, 37:30 when we are justified through that redemption on the cross, 37:35 we now are the children of God. 37:37 But look at the rest of the text. 37:39 "It has not yet been revealed what we shall be 37:43 but we know that when He is revealed, 37:47 we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." 37:53 The child who is in first grade of elementary school 37:58 is just as much in school as the child 38:02 who is getting ready to graduate in the eighth grade. 38:06 When we come to Jesus, we are children of God. 38:10 And if we are committed to Him and stay with Him, 38:13 He will finish the job in our lives. 38:17 I thank God that I can trust Him 38:20 that He will finish in my life what He has started 38:24 and through me reveal His loving character to the world 38:28 as I focus on what He can do, not on what I can do. 38:34 Thank you for that. 38:36 I know I want to get into my next section 38:38 so I'm going to allow you, Attorney Walton, 15 seconds. 38:44 Five of which you've already used up. 38:49 I think Elder Finley put that so well. 38:51 You know, the term is righteousness by faith 38:53 not excuses by faith. 38:55 Why is it important at the end of time? 38:57 Because you've got a whole 7 billion people in this world 39:00 about to face an issue where it's life or death decisions. 39:06 And the only example they may see that 39:08 the gospel really works is in your life, 39:10 it's an issue of due process they deserve that for you. 39:15 Thank you, your honor. 39:16 Oh, go ahead. Thank you. 39:17 You know, I actually got absolution from Mark 39:20 to able to speak so, you know, and I'm glad that... 39:25 I'm glad that Mark uncovered the elephant 39:28 in the living room. 39:29 Someone mentioned 1888, Pastor Brooks you did, 39:32 you mentioned 1888. 39:34 You know that's something in our history that sustain 39:36 under church's history. 39:38 And you know, there was not a come to Jesus moment 39:41 after that time. 39:43 And Elder Wilson read a text in 2 Peter 3 39:47 but only quoted part of the text, 39:49 2 Peter 3:9 it says, 39:51 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, 39:54 as some count slackness, but is longsuffering to us, 39:57 not willing that any should perish, 39:59 but that all should come to repentance." 40:01 Typically we use that as people that have not heard. 40:04 I think that text is for all of us. 40:07 You know, when Moses was recounting for the people 40:11 in Deuteronomy 8 40:13 how they failed to cross over all the bad things they did 40:16 that prevented the Lord from letting them go through, 40:19 Those were not the people that were present at that time. 40:23 And so this talks about repentance 40:24 and I believe that we as a church, we as leadership, 40:27 anybody's leadership we as members 40:30 really have to grapple with that stain on 40:32 denominational history and repent of rejecting 40:36 what the Lord sent as the most precious message 40:40 to our church. 40:41 And I think once we do that, 40:43 there will be showers of blessing. 40:47 Amen. Okay. 40:50 Let's move to our second section now 40:52 which is that question. 40:56 What in the world and in the church 40:59 indicate that God is on the move? 41:01 What are some signs of His second coming? 41:07 One of the questions that came in 41:09 that kind of set this up. 41:11 Someone wrote in. 41:12 We are told in the Great Controversy that 41:14 "A backsliding church close their eyes 41:18 to the signs of the times." 41:21 So we don't want to-- How many of you agree 41:23 we don't want to be backsliding church. 41:26 We want to know what some of the signs of the times are. 41:29 And we have a panel here 41:30 that literally has traveled the world 41:33 and thought about the second coming 41:36 in our message in many different ways. 41:39 Some of them know about the economy and taxes. 41:43 Some of them know about politics to some extend. 41:48 And some of them, you know, can comment on 41:50 other trends in the world. 41:53 So let's talks about the world first. 41:55 And then we'll move to the church. 41:57 And I'll open up to anybody. 41:58 What are some signs that you see 42:01 from your travels around the world 42:04 that indicate that Christ is coming soon? 42:12 One thing that's interesting is most of us would agree that 42:15 it seems the world is coming unglued. 42:17 I mean things are not like they used to be. 42:20 It's quite incredible that you think of the economy 42:23 of the Unites States for example. 42:25 Purportedly they are most prosperous nation in the world. 42:28 And our country is $17 trillion in debt 42:31 has a massive unemployment. 42:33 The student loan rate now is beyond $1 trillion 42:37 the outstanding amount. 42:38 It is so big and so precarious that Senator Tom Harkin 42:43 on the floor of the Senate recently said, 42:45 "It could be the tipping point 42:47 for the next recession in America." 42:49 Most of you are likely aware that there is another 42:52 150 billion in private loans but the 1 trillion is 42:56 this portion of the student loans 42:59 that are government backed 43:01 and of course since a number of years ago 43:03 students would go through on loans 43:04 and then bankrupt after graduation. 43:06 You can't bankrupt on anymore. 43:08 When you have all these loans, you pay it off or die 43:10 and this is incredible 43:12 because there are whole cities in America 43:14 that have already filed for bankruptcy 43:16 or in the process like Detroit Stock 43:18 in California and so on. 43:20 And this is an unusual time for our nation 43:23 and to borrow money to fix the problems we've had. 43:27 Most of us are well aware 43:28 that's not gonna fix the problem, 43:29 so we are in precarious time. 43:31 But something amazing is that in spite of all these problems, 43:35 God's people are still supporting His work 43:37 in a strong way and I'm really glad to see that. 43:40 Amen. 43:42 So you, as you told me once on the mountain in Colorado. 43:47 "Do your giving while it's living, 43:48 so you're knowing where it's going. 43:50 Get your money into the work." 43:52 Is that what you told me? 43:53 Yeah, there's one other interesting thing 43:55 that I might mention and that is 43:57 when I did the research for the book Sunday's Coming, 43:59 I decided that I would study all these Bible 44:02 and Spirit of Prophecy have to say about Sunday, 44:04 so of course the Bible doesn't or weren't 44:06 mentioned the word Sunday in the English translations. 44:08 But Ellen White does mention it 1,895 times 44:14 so I printed them all off 44:15 which is about four rims of paper 44:17 and studied them through 44:18 and looked only at the relevant ones. 44:21 I took out all the duplicates. 44:22 I got down to about 120 original relevant statements 44:26 that Ellen White makes. 44:27 And she says the agitation for Sunday 44:30 will come about as a result of 44:32 either one of these three things. 44:34 Either a financial crisis in American, 44:37 a natural disaster or a moral crisis. 44:42 Now you think about all of these things. 44:44 Every one of them are evident right now. 44:46 Are you aware that since June 26th of this year, 44:50 just about 6 weeks ago, now 44:53 because of the US Supreme Court decisions 44:55 30% of Americans live in jurisdictions 44:58 where gay marriage is legal and encouraged. 45:02 This is the United States. 45:03 Welcome to the end times. 45:05 Elder Wilson? 45:07 Yeah, I think Pastor Reid has emphasized 45:10 certainly economic situation, 45:14 politically when you look around the world, 45:16 there are situations 45:17 politicians simply cannot handle today. 45:20 Things are falling apart. 45:22 From an ecumenical standpoint, 45:24 we're seeing movements that are directing activities 45:29 towards the restriction of religious freedom, 45:32 but I would that say that 45:33 one of the most glaring things is 45:35 what Pastor Reid mentioned 45:37 and that is the area of social change 45:40 that has happened so quickly in a number of places 45:43 around the world, same sex marriage, 45:46 homosexuality acceptance, all of this, 45:48 which is a direct rebuke against the word of God. 45:53 Now, we need to be certainly understanding and caring, 45:57 every person have challenge, 46:00 we are all sinners at the foot of the cross. 46:02 But there is a solution for the sin problem 46:05 and that is coalition with Jesus Christ. 46:07 And so I think these social developments 46:12 are a very powerful understanding 46:15 that we are coming to a very critical time 46:17 in earth's history. 46:18 Okay, we've talked about the economy. 46:20 We've talked about politics. 46:22 Pastor Finley, is there anything 46:24 that's not evident to the common eye 46:27 as you've been thinking 46:28 and you're talking to lots of groups around the world 46:30 and you're saying men, you know, I see this 46:33 but other people may not see it. 46:34 Is there some anything like that? 46:38 There is one item that really lets, 46:42 at least indicates to me that 46:44 we're on the verge of the kingdom of God. 46:46 There's a statement in Great Controversy 46:47 that I'll quote. 46:48 It says, "Before the final visitation of 46:50 God's judgments upon the earth, 46:51 there will be among the people of the God, 46:53 revival of primitive godliness." 46:55 Satan desires to hinder this work 46:58 and before the time shall come, he will endeavor to prevent it 47:01 "by introducing a counterfeit." 47:04 In those churches that he can bring under his guise, 47:08 he will introduce false religious awakening. 47:13 So before the final visitation of God's judgments, 47:16 that's the seven last plagues, there will be a revival, 47:19 the outpouring of the Holy Spirit will take place 47:21 and the Latter Rain and Loud Cry will be given. 47:24 But before that there will be a false revival. 47:27 Could it be that in a generation 47:31 that wants instant solutions 47:33 that the devil is going to palm off 47:35 a counterfeit style of religion based on so called 47:39 Holy Ghost movement. 47:41 Where there will be false tongue's movement? 47:43 Will Pentecostal churches and other charismatic churches 47:46 and contemporary worship style churches 47:48 with the new music introduced to them, 47:50 sweep thousands off their feet 47:54 with a emotional form of religion 47:57 rather than a religion, a spiritual experience 48:01 that leads to studying God's word, 48:03 that leads to the needs, 48:05 that leads to a heart filled desire 48:07 for character change 48:08 and that leads to reflect the image of Jesus. 48:12 Could we be seeing in the growth 48:15 of many churches in America today 48:18 a movement that really borders 48:23 on an emotional form of religion, 48:25 an instant form of religion, 48:27 so I observe not only what's going on in the world, 48:30 but what is going on in some protestant churches 48:34 that passes off for religion and passes off spirituality. 48:38 And I think we should be acutely aware 48:41 of not only the signs in the world 48:44 but the signs in churches 48:46 which can substitute for a genuine spirituality. 48:52 Anything else? 48:53 Thank you for that and that's kind of a segue 48:55 that goes from the world to the church. 48:58 But anything else that we see in the world 49:01 and I see Elder Brooks waving at me, 49:03 I don't think as a friend, 49:04 but because he has something to say. 49:07 Just a comment. 49:09 The Bible says the Lord knows those who are his, 49:12 that we must not underestimate the power and work 49:16 and wisdom of the Holy Spirit. 49:18 Something is going to happen. 49:21 Ellen White says, "Thousands will leave 49:23 and join the enemy." 49:25 But when they do, other thousands 49:27 will come in to take their places 49:30 and the ranks of the Lord's army 49:32 will not be diminished. 49:35 I live with this hope. I live with these promises. 49:39 I don't know when the Lord will come. 49:40 I believe with all my heart, He is coming soon. 49:44 But I don't worry about those things 49:46 that He has revealed to us. 49:48 And you don't have to be a philosopher to go to heaven. 49:53 Bible says when Jesus spoke the common people 49:56 heard Him gladly. 49:58 We don't have to have all these trappings of wisdom. 50:02 Wisdom is the word of God. 50:04 And when it becomes a part of our lives 50:06 and a part of our thinking, 50:08 we're on a different track than most everybody else. |
Revised 2014-12-18